#eevblog - 2020-10-01 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2020-10-01

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« 2020-09-30 2020-10-02 »
00:05 * Ysjoelfir coughs
00:09 <Ysjoelfir> ew, github? :D
10:20 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, i thought any hub is welcomed for u
10:40 <Ysjoelfir> no. :P
10:47 <electrohead> lol
10:53 <electrohead> yeah, it's github :P
11:15 <hsn> this great scott became famous hah
12:12 <hsn> nah this must be someone else
12:28 <hsn> i was talking about this guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6mIxFTvXkWQVEHPsEdflzQ
12:31 <electrohead> I'm off to work, take care y'all
12:52 <hsn> tc
13:36 <hsn> Ysjoelfir,
13:42 <Ysjoelfir> thats me
13:44 <hsn> i get fcked for one whole day by atmel
13:50 <Ysjoelfir> ew!
13:54 <Ysjoelfir> you must be very wound now
13:58 <hsn> ASF basically
15:00 <hsn> didnt know that it does change HPL codes all the time i thought its smart and does everything from configuration files
15:10 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/UZyfOH.jpg until i found this .. mine is SERCOM4 !!
15:37 <hsn> it compiles .. and hangs .. the error is not in function that im looking for .. so its hard to find
16:28 <Ysjoelfir> erm.... I'm sure thats not right then :D
18:07 <hsn> the thing i use (atmel configurator) to generate codes .. and then i ditched it .. and start replacing from config files directly
19:00 <hsn> its annoying a bit bcz i found one bug in their driver file and had to replace small thing in their core files ..
24:40 <Ysjoelfir> that sounds like lots of fun
25:37 <hsn> well from 8am till now 5:20pm ..
25:48 <hsn> u can imagine how much fun it is ..
26:04 <hsn> i worked hard today .. finally im into working mode
27:59 <hsn> Halcyon u alive?
28:04 <Ysjoelfir> Yes indeed
28:07 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog time
28:07 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 00:28 Sydney time.
28:13 <Ysjoelfir> Nah. HE'll be to bed by now
28:34 <Ysjoelfir> but I'm sure he would like it if you would join him there
29:13 Join: TheDude ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
32:41 <hsn> lol
33:17 <hsn> Ysjoelfir i saw random arab tech guy on instagram .. and ..
33:19 <hsn> https://www.instagram.com/p/B9ofXKxpsY2/?igshid=kigvrn5mnefl
33:49 <Ysjoelfir> can't watch it at work right now, what is he doing?
33:51 <hsn> notice he touches the aluminum foil afraid from
34:09 <hsn> shock electricity
34:25 <hsn> also he measures with "screw test driver" ..
34:37 <Ysjoelfir> hehe :D
35:18 <hsn> so i asked him did u know the reason of this ? ... he spectulate its related to CRT beam shooting to the foil and charging it
35:24 <hsn> somehow ...
35:40 <hsn> and i think its Y capacitor related in smps
35:47 <hsn> so i wanted to ask what u think
36:21 <Ysjoelfir> ah. I would have to watch that when I'm home then :)
36:59 <hsn> np .. its like 30sec video .. nothing in there .. just a crt tv and some sort of capacitive sensing to control somthing
37:51 <Ysjoelfir> its more because our admins are fucking up our network right now :D its soooooooooooooo slow, websites don't even load at all
38:34 <hsn> hmm u think they put loops before starting fucking
39:06 <Ysjoelfir> xD maybe
42:23 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/0LkVcu.jpg << this is the screw test to aluminum foil
42:55 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/2uSqye.jpg < and this is the aluminum near the crt tv
43:37 <hsn> he is using the aluminum i believe as capacitive touch pad i think
46:03 <K> my money would be on leakage somewhere
46:42 <K> doubt the crt beam has enough energy after hiting the phosphorus
46:59 <hsn> yee
47:10 <Ysjoelfir> yep
47:13 <Ysjoelfir> I agree
47:21 <hsn> i thought its (pc / tv) leakage somewhere related to y-rated caps in smps
50:10 <rust_collector> I think that guy is going to learn something by doing that whateveritis he is doing
52:08 <hsn> yess
52:16 <hsn> its good to see bahrainis like him
52:29 <hsn> good feeling .. i dont feel alone :D
52:56 <K> although i remember that it could build up some static charge over time, esp older b&w crts
52:59 <rust_collector> yeah, he is probably a guy who has trouble with being on a ladder on a ladder on top of a tractor
53:03 <hsn> others do (clone arduino simple project) .. and they act like they did it all .. i get annoyed ..
55:29 <rust_collector> maybe you are just easily annoyed? I am usually just annoyed by indians making videos that is exactly the same as some other guys video, but the description is about something that is not related to the video
57:23 <NeroTHz> I´m annoyed by the amount of people on the internet throwing together some schenatic that is dubious at best that they saw on another blog, which got it from another blog, and they got it from another blog, and it really is just worthless, but my stupid bachelor students doing electronics for the first time can´t separate those shitty things from the higher-quality blogposts and appnotes
57:45 <rust_collector> I won't say all indians are like that, but as there are so many of them...
59:00 <rust_collector> NeroTHz, isn't that why you are a teacher?
59:24 <NeroTHz> rust_collector, yes. But it just is really frustrating to see it, as I´m not a full time teacher or anything
59:38 <NeroTHz> I´m a researcher that has to spend a few hours each week helping students on projects
03:39 <rust_collector> not that I am a student or anything, but I can see why you would think some random stuff on the internet is ok, as the comments say "I made this, it is awesome" I guess you should tell them to find a book from hungary in 1978, maybe
04:27 <NeroTHz> yeah, I understand why, I just hate that it exists because there is so much trash out there
05:06 <rust_collector> hey! it is the internet.
07:11 <hsn> get masters students NeroTHz
07:33 <hsn> bachelor = 80% crap 20% good students
07:34 <hsn> :D
07:58 <hsn> cya
07:58 <rust_collector> I get what you mean. But maybe... uhm should they be banned from reading the internet, until they figure out what works and what does not? I dunno... it is tricky I guess
08:30 <NeroTHz> rust_collector, oh no, I need them to learn :p and it just takes some time to explain and by the end they can tell what is and isn´t good
08:46 <hsn> nah rust_collector .. but they should be warned if tutor catch them "copying" what others did .. some punishment will exist
09:05 <rust_collector> yes, but do they have to learn from the internet?
09:08 <NeroTHz> but like, I get tired explaining for the n´th time that just cause some random teenager uses a 7805 outside of datasheet spec successfully does not mean you should do too or that it will always work
09:36 <hsn> but 7805 is strong beast
09:47 <NeroTHz> rust_collector, the core goal of my project is that they learn to problem-solve and research, and in this day-and-age doing fast research pretty much requires the internet
09:58 <rust_collector> right
10:04 <NeroTHz> it´s not a solvable problem, it´s just annoying :p
10:06 <hsn> no internet = no books .. its same
10:33 <rust_collector> but can you do that until you learn to see what is good and what is not...
11:04 <rust_collector> I think there are a few books that are not online in a place I can find them yet
11:33 <hsn> i guess u can surf internet copy others .. but 1- never say its ur work ... 2- try not just to copy without understanding what the hell just happened
11:36 <rust_collector> hsn, do you also have to read it on your phone?
12:02 <hsn> read ? what ?
12:08 <rust_collector> the internet
12:19 <hsn> me = scattered person .. i prefer youtube over reading
12:20 <hsn> :D
12:48 <hsn> yes i read wiki/others on phone at night befroe sleep
13:07 <rust_collector> oh, so that is why you hate sleeping
13:31 <hsn> basically yes .. i think it stops me learninh
13:33 <hsn> xD
13:43 <rust_collector> I like youtube too, but as I said, I am not a student. there has to be something more... professional out there to look at
14:34 <NeroTHz> There are things like IEEE xplore for papers and so on. And after a while you learn how to find appnotes too I guess? I don´t know, I have the luxury that my work doesn´t fall in the realm of the average hobby-nerd-with-a-blog
14:49 <NeroTHz> (but that said there is a shittonne of absolute garbage antenna and RF papers out there)
15:36 <rust_collector> are you saying there is something wrong with us less than average hobby nerds?
15:46 <NeroTHz> no
15:49 <rust_collector> because you could be right
22:09 <K> bhh
23:39 <rust_collector> I think I might grab a burger on the way to work...
24:09 <rust_collector> have fun. good night
31:00 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
31:43 <Watcher> Hello everybody
36:11 <rust_collector> hello just you
37:11 <Watcher> rust_collector, whats your current project?
37:55 <rust_collector> right now... it is (as usual) a power supply. this time I am trying the opamp version
38:20 <rust_collector> I have tried many many versions, but I have not really got anything I like yet
39:01 <rust_collector> I am not sure why, but I have a thing for power supplies. I do not really have a use for them either
39:54 <rust_collector> well, it is time to go to work, have fun
40:09 <Watcher> so you make more power supply's then project to power with then?
40:44 <rust_collector> I don't have anything to power with them. I just like the supplies
40:59 <rust_collector> well, I do use them a bit now and then, but no, not really
42:23 <rust_collector> but as NeroTHz said up there the internet is full of shit, and I have no good way to sort that from the good stuff, so I end up with loads of crap, and some ok-ish things,
42:28 <rust_collector> ok, good night
43:16 <Watcher> good night
34:33 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
53:41 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slK-N0t06g
57:32 Join: Mb ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
58:37 <Mb> hello world
04:02 <Ysjoelfir> I'm a bee!
15:02 <Mb> Hey guys, do you know how design ultra-wide band amplifiers ?
15:45 <Mb> I'm curious about how to make a constant impedance input/
16:02 <Mb> like 0 to 10G
18:39 <Ysjoelfir> NeroTHz, thats one for you
32:33 <Ysjoelfir> NeroTHz! That man needs your help!
45:44 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4 might be helpfull as well
49:00 <Mb> They seemed far far away
01:20 Quit: spark_gap ([email protected]) Connection closed
07:19 * T3sl4 hugs Ysjoelfir
12:09 <Ysjoelfir> woohoo!
12:13 * Ysjoelfir hugs T3sl4 back
13:05 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4, that man, named after a company producing board games, needs your urgent help
17:17 <Ysjoelfir> Mb, seems like T3sl4 can't help
17:56 <Ysjoelfir> I never thought I would ever witness the day where T3sl4 doesn't know the answer to something!
47:23 <Mb> :)
51:49 <T3sl4> back
52:05 <T3sl4> making chili takes precedence, you understand
54:00 <NeroTHz> Mb, depends on what you are doing
54:06 <NeroTHz> are you talking about amplifiers with discretes?
54:13 <NeroTHz> or on a IC
57:21 <Mb> discrete components
58:32 <NeroTHz> I think DC->10 kinda puts you in the ´buy a designed amplifier´ category. You really want to go for stuff like distributed PAs I think
58:37 <NeroTHz> but I´m not a baseband guy
01:24 <Ysjoelfir> uh, chili! Yes, I absolutely understand that T3sl4
02:32 <NeroTHz> (in case you want to know, what you kinda do in a distributed PA is have lots of transistors along a transmission line, resulting in the impact of the impedance to be lessened and be able too be tuned out over a wider band. Usually devices (esp MOSFETs at lower frequencies) act capacitive, so you can tune that out with some inductance. Do it in a distributed way and you boost bandwidth a lot
04:06 <Mb> I see NeroTHz, I'm just a hobbyist and read a few book about ultra-wide band. But I couldnt find any information. When they talked about UW, its always 100MHz etc ..
04:57 <T3sl4> it's rather ponderous that a hobbyist would even have the capability to generate and measure signals that wide
05:51 <Mb> I mean, How Agilent, Tek, etc ... bulid their instruments ? Someway they have to achive this.
05:53 <Mb> I guess
05:59 <NeroTHz> yeah, they use ICs
06:07 <NeroTHz> <- Designes circuits from 100-1000 GHz
07:07 <Ysjoelfir> Mb, see why I said thats something for NeroTHz? :P
07:19 <T3sl4> they were already transitioning from discrete transistors to hybrids and ICs, back in the early 70s
07:19 <Ysjoelfir> well, I think for him its just DC to a bit more than DC though
07:27 <T3sl4> compare tek 465 to 475 for example
07:34 <NeroTHz> you need to tune out the parasitic inductance/capacitance. but that usually means that your network (because math, check the bode-fano limit) has to be band-pass---only works over a narrow band. Ultra-wide-band either requires very low Q-matching networks
07:49 <NeroTHz> and as frequency gets higher you really need to put all your components closer together, hence you go to ICs
08:02 <NeroTHz> Ysjoelfir, ´Baseband´ is the term your looking for :p
08:19 * T3sl4 amplifies some bassband for NeroTHz's ears
08:25 <NeroTHz> (arguably designing a DC-30 GHz baseband is a hell of a lot harder than a 100-180 GHz amplifier)
09:48 <Mb> Ysjoelfir, :)
10:08 <Mb> I understand you mean physical size is the key point
10:27 <NeroTHz> Keysight does a lot on ST SiGe-BiCMOS, the really,really high end stuff they do on their in-house InP (which I´m told is about 700-ish GHz fmax). Tek probably just uses CMOS, you can doo 300 GHz on CMOS
10:31 <T3sl4> relevant, i once made a distributed amp using 4 vacuum tubes and a shitton of inductors and capacitors: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/DistAmp2.jpg still not quite tuned right, it's flat to 27MHz but there's one pole out of alignment that would get it closer to 35MHz if aligned properly
10:32 <NeroTHz> or maybe a BiCMOS
10:40 <T3sl4> every adjustment interacts with the next, it's a huge pain to tune
11:18 <NeroTHz> R&S have IHP SiGe and Fraunhofer (I think?) INP
11:30 <T3sl4> that's probably partly because i used tubes that have notable feedback capacitance (ideally it would be none, so i don't have to account for it), and because i used a singly-terminated plate load (which optimizes for output power, a good 20W in this case, at expense of bandwidth)
11:48 <NeroTHz> T3sl4, what is the fmax of your tooobb
11:57 <T3sl4> pretty sure the inductors are supposed to be coupled inductors with taps going to the tubes, and i did just whatever with series inductors
12:00 <Mb> T3sl4, very cool picture bro
12:06 <T3sl4> but how the heck do you tune a CT inductor :P
12:26 <NeroTHz> T3sl4, it´s called right-first-try
12:27 <NeroTHz> :p
12:31 <T3sl4> i know ;)
12:48 <NeroTHz> Mb, if you have any more specific questions feel free to reach out
13:06 <NeroTHz> i tend to go on rambles when prodded though, so be warned
13:26 <Mb> NeroTHz thank you so much, is it posible or find some company to fabricate "poor mans MMIC"
13:59 <NeroTHz> I´m gonna go with no, but who knows, maybe once Google finishes analog models for that CMOS technology they made you can
14:45 <NeroTHz> don´t actually know how fast you can go in those, but I would suspect at least a couple GHz, maybe even tens of GHz if you really know what you are doing
16:11 <Mb> Its every ones childhood dream :D Making your own ICs :D
16:12 <T3sl4> NeroTHz: uhhh let's see, gm = 15mS or so i think, Cin = 25p plus, Cout = 13p
16:26 <T3sl4> actual Cin in practice is probably closer to 40p
16:33 <T3sl4> Cmiller 0.8pF
16:45 <NeroTHz> Mb, making ICs is a pain :p
17:35 <NeroTHz> It´s why I avoided it as long as possible and stuck to antennas and passives
18:34 <Mb> Hahahahah
19:26 <Mb> Do anyone use Xyce before ?
19:53 <NeroTHz> I wonder how long it would take T3sl4 to learn how to do IC design :p it really was a big shift for me, switching from ´taking a transistor and designing the circuit around it´ to ´taking a circuit and sizing transistors for it´
20:11 * T3sl4 shrug
20:16 <NeroTHz> though in the end it´s not that different, just a few more degrees of freedom and don´t use resistors becuase resistor be evil
20:24 <T3sl4> i'd love to have smaller 2N3904s and etc
20:29 <NeroTHz> Tape some
21:17 <T3sl4> i know how to design without resistors, or with fewer of them anyway
21:30 <NeroTHz> I don´t know how to design at all
21:41 <NeroTHz> been 5 years since I´ve actually sized a transistor. I´m rusty
21:50 <T3sl4> a lot of classic ICs are a mess, i'd have to study them a lot to understand them
22:12 <T3sl4> but then again, bandgap stuff is mostly toolbox these days, innit?
23:02 <T3sl4> and with dozens of transistors fitting into the space of one transistor of yore, i don't think the higher complexity really matters
23:06 <NeroTHz> most of it is yea. Some of the turnkey asic houses I know people at even have toolboxes for 95% of their OTAs. OPAMPs. LDOs. etc
23:24 <T3sl4> or i can just do what TI and everyone else does, synthesize it in logic and slap ADCs on it :/
23:48 <NeroTHz> someone needs to make those ADCs thouhg
24:29 <T3sl4> every time you build an analog circuit, an ADC designer goes hungry
25:00 <NeroTHz> lol
25:32 <NeroTHz> I´m glad there are no commercially viable 100 GHz ADCs yet, gives me (some) job security gor now
25:47 <T3sl4> meh, just mix it down to 10GHz
26:13 <NeroTHz> (and before someone goes ´but keyisght has a scope that´ - 1.5 million for 4 ADC channels not commercially viable make)
26:33 <T3sl4> not much interfacing you can do at 100GHz, will have to fan out quite widely to use real time
26:33 <NeroTHz> T3sl4, 10 GHz? can´t fit 50 GBaud through 10 GHz!
27:17 <NeroTHz> ethernet comms are now 25 gbaud channels for a lot of things, 50gbaud rolling out now, 100 gbaud in research
27:44 <NeroTHz> so it´ll be here sooner than youd expect (ofcourse in specific applications, not in your 10-dollar consumer product)
28:09 <T3sl4> indeed
28:41 Quit: Polesch ([email protected]) Connection closed
28:51 <T3sl4> my intent was, most anything you'd want at a nearly board level scale is going to be SDR related, so just take a piece of the bandwidth and go with it
29:00 <T3sl4> how wide is 60GHz wifi supposed to be?
29:12 <NeroTHz> I think the entire band is a few GHz? but I´m not sure.
29:39 <NeroTHz> There is also that few GHz 140 GHz band opening up for next-gen wireless, but 60 GHz is already struggeling with adoption so who knows what will give
29:39 <T3sl4> eh, can probably do that today, and just with rogers pcb to make antennas
29:46 <NeroTHz> yeah indeed
30:02 <NeroTHz> don´t even need fancy rogers, some higher-speed FR-like materials work too
30:23 <T3sl4> it's basically beam-of-light doing anything up there, not really useful for general purpose communications
30:33 <T3sl4> hm, how well does that band reflect off drywall and such?
30:45 <NeroTHz> though I´d imagine those products need to be module-ized. You can get away with app-note-antennas at 2.4, and maybe 5, but 60, you really get into the ´though shal EM simulate´-territory
31:18 <NeroTHz> so your smaller companies who don´t have budget or expertise for that need it bought
31:18 <T3sl4> it's not something you're going to pull off, at just any fab
31:37 <T3sl4> and it's a lot of expense for the little board area needed, a module is the way to go
31:52 <NeroTHz> T3sl4, true. No clue how well it bounces off of dry-wall though. Whats the dielectric constant at 60 GHz of plaster?
32:11 <T3sl4> imagine it's quite lossy. it's a hydrate, and the organic binders are full of hydroxyls
32:33 <T3sl4> ...not that we're talking the IR hydroxyl and ketone bands, those are a ways off
33:00 * NeroTHz adds it to his list of dielectric-consants to measure
34:20 <T3sl4> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/054e/f8688d57f0b89cbb9cbcdbc629f1fccdcefa.pdf huh, it's actually pretty good, at least at.... modest frequencies, so to speak
35:21 <T3sl4> but maybe there's interesting peaks in common materials higher up, shrug
35:33 <NeroTHz> that is a surprisingly low dielectric constant
35:42 <NeroTHz> I was expecting it to be higher for some reason
36:20 <NeroTHz> I´m not familiar enough with the chemical components that actually go into drywall and so on, so I can´t comment
36:34 <Mb> What if I painted my wall with lead paint ? :)
36:54 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
37:17 <T3sl4> lead subcarbonate probably isn't much worse than calcium sulfate dihydrate
37:24 <NeroTHz> ^
38:09 <T3sl4> red lead however is a semiconductor, and might be lossy
38:23 <NeroTHz> I remember some of that foamed concrete was actually way way horrible for propagation
38:38 <T3sl4> interesting
40:04 <T3sl4> oh, i wonder if that's because of scattering more than loss
40:14 Quit: Guest|83736 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
40:23 * Mb takes note, Use foamed concrete with red paint
41:10 Join: Guest|83736 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
41:45 <T3sl4> concrete "dyes" may be even more effective
42:08 <T3sl4> not sure what's in the usual black colorant, but if it's basically magnetite that'll have excellent loss at most any frequency
42:18 <T3sl4> a vault of that and you won't hear a thing, electromagnetically speaking
42:34 <Mb> Perfect
42:42 <T3sl4> or just water, lots and lots of water
43:00 <T3sl4> seawater, more specifically
43:07 <Mb> I'm still beliving that, mmW is harmfull for humans
43:43 <Mb> I'll be much more happy without 5G
44:33 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
44:38 * Nothing\ sighs
45:13 * T3sl4 hugs Nothing\
45:27 <Nothing\> i found a port for The World Ends With You for the Switch so i got real excited, ran out to the store, bought a $100 eshop card and came back and spent $70 on the game
45:36 <Nothing\> turns out the controls are so broken, it's literally unplayable
45:47 * Nothing\ tackle hugs T3sl4
45:49 <Nothing\> hey buddy
46:09 <Nothing\> it's sad too cuz that's about the 3rd game i've bought for the switch with such atrocious controls
46:14 <T3sl4> guess it pays to check that out first :P
46:32 <Nothing\> well i would just assume something like controls wouldn't be THAT bad
46:47 <Nothing\> i mean, we're talking shitty knockoff famicom game levels of quality
47:13 <Nothing\> as in, i haven't come across games with controls this bad since that era
47:56 <Nothing\> funny/sad thing is, i already have a copy of The World Ends With You on my DS which i pirated for free. I was just happy to have a version i could play on my TV.
48:50 <Nothing\> i can sorta understand the poor controls though. i mean the game is really unique and as such the controls even for the DS version are a bit difficult to learn.
49:09 <Nothing\> great game, despite all that though.
50:29 <T3sl4> hmmm, touch driven i see?
51:27 <Nothing\> i think that's how it's meant to be played cuz that's how the controls were for the DS version
51:52 <Nothing\> but the switch version on the TV uses the controller as a pointer to move the cursor
52:23 <Nothing\> and you use the cursor to control one character in battle while issuing commands to another using the D-pad. On a single joy-con
52:33 <Nothing\> it doesn't support 2 joy-cons or even the pro controller
53:01 <Nothing\> so i think it was meant to be played more with the touch controls in portable mode
53:40 <Nothing\> ooohhh thunder. I hope we get a nice juicy storm to end the summer
54:22 <T3sl4> had a nice rain this noon, back to bright and sunny now
55:09 <Nothing\> where abouts are you again? I'm about an hour southeast of toronto. so, kinda sandwiched between the great lakes, new york and michigan
55:34 <Nothing\> it sucks cuz any time a storm comes in from the midwest, it loses steam over the cooler air over the great lakes
55:50 <T3sl4> west side of lake mi
57:26 <Nothing\> ah right on, so you're sort of just across the lakes from me
58:06 <Nothing\> though i'm a bit further south, closes lake to me is lake Ontario to the East, then Erie to the South. I'm not sure which lake is to the west
58:11 <Nothing\> probably michigan
58:25 <Nothing\> oh no, it's huron that's right
58:31 <T3sl4> that'd be across from ohio then
58:36 <Nothing\> lol i lived on lake huron for like 3 years, i shoulda known that
58:55 <Nothing\> or at least georgian bay, which is on lake huron
59:06 <T3sl4> oh wait, southeast
59:19 <Nothing\> it was awesome. i was only 2 blocks from the water so i'd often walk down to this lookout point and watch various weather come in over the water
59:27 <Nothing\> watching storms come across the water was amazing
59:44 <Nothing\> but not as amazing as the one time i mananaged to catch the northern lights over the water
59:53 <Nothing\> never seen them before or since
00:07 <T3sl4> the one time i saw odd weather was this roll cloud heading out to the lake, shot from my dorm room https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/Images/Clouds.gif
00:16 <T3sl4> i think that was about 15s per frame
00:18 <Nothing\> and they were kinda dim. it just looked like really fast moving clouds or smoke or something. no real color to it.
00:37 <T3sl4> i'
00:39 <Nothing\> nice
00:52 <T3sl4> i'm right on the lake right now actually, just a road and a golf course to the bluff
00:54 <Nothing\> that's like that shot from independence day where the alien ship comes out of the clouds
01:03 <Nothing\> or was it supposed to be exhaust? i was never sure
01:05 <T3sl4> really nice here, it's park all up and down the coast
01:25 <T3sl4> heh, or like how you get vapor over aircraft wings in certain conditions
01:31 <Nothing\> i used to live in kitchener/waterloo which is where RIM/Blackberry had their headquarters
01:46 <Nothing\> that whole tricity area (including cambridge) was so green and beautiful
02:03 <Nothing\> you could walk anywhere in the tri-city area without ever having to take a road, there were so many trails
02:20 <Nothing\> and we're talking a municipality of half a million people
03:17 <Nothing\> i really miss living there, but my mom keeps making excuses to stay in this city and swears up and down we're never moving again.
03:52 <Nothing\> cuz i split my place with my mom. rent's so high neither of us could afford a place on our own between her pension and my disability
04:04 * T3sl4 nods
04:35 <Nothing\> $1400 for a 2 bedroom townhouse. and that's cheap for the area
04:54 <Nothing\> when i was looking for myself the shitty run down bachelors were like $900
05:06 <T3sl4> haven't checked in a while, but that may be not far off from what it is around here
05:09 <T3sl4> my place is 700
05:15 <Nothing\> and nobody wanted to give me an apartment cuz my disability would just cover the rent and no other bills
05:25 <Nothing\> or barely anything else
05:55 <Nothing\> they assumed i'd skimp on the rent cuz i'd get behind on the bills, despite my stressing to them that rent is always the number 1 priority for me financially
06:15 <Nothing\> cuz i mean, what good is paying other bills if you haven't got a house to live in to use the services
06:22 <Nothing\> oooooh hail
06:23 <Nothing\> nice!
06:28 <T3sl4> exciting
06:44 <Nothing\> boo, it didn't last very long
07:04 <Nothing\> the cats sure liked it though. i can't wait for them to see their first snowfall. they're gonna go nuts
07:28 <Nothing\> they already go crazy if they see a bug or even a dust mote floating in the air. nevermind millions of snowflakes fluttering around
07:41 <Nothing\> hahaha they just got scared off by a big crack of thunder out of nowhere
08:09 <T3sl4> hehe
09:30 <Nothing\> lol now they're getting all squirrelly and running around like maniacs for no reason the way only a cat can
10:41 <Nothing\> so i've had this kill-a-watt meter hooked up to my computer for a while now
10:47 <T3sl4> pour catnip on them, i dare
10:54 <Nothing\> i've never seen this thing go higher than 140 watts
11:14 <Nothing\> lol the one loves catnip, the other doesn't react to it yet cuz she's too young
11:18 <Nothing\> though she's starting to
11:20 <T3sl4> ahh
11:53 <Nothing\> i'm surprised, the older one, smokey actually started reacting to it when he was maybe 3 or 4 months old and they say they don't react to it until they're at least 6 months
12:35 <Nothing\> he's part maine coon, so he's already a really uppity and energetic cat
13:13 <Nothing\> not to mention, they're huge cats
13:23 <T3sl4> fuzzy af
13:38 <Nothing\> lol yeah his tail's so damn puffy lol. i love it
13:44 <Nothing\> it's wider than his head is
13:55 <Nothing\> and yet, he barely sheds somehow
14:17 <Nothing\> he's really smart, too
14:47 <Nothing\> i've been trying to teach him to count to 3, or at least how counting to 3 and amounts of objects up to 3 objects works in the hopes he'll pick something up
15:00 <T3sl4> fetch?
15:10 <Nothing\> oh yeah he loves playing fetch
15:17 <T3sl4> cats that fetch are awesome
15:20 <Nothing\> he learned that when he was about 4 months
15:23 <Nothing\> haha i know
15:30 <Nothing\> he's the only one i've had who will fetch
16:06 <Nothing\> he has these little hedgehog toys a bit bigger than ping pong balls that he loves playing fetch with
16:25 <Nothing\> a lot of toys i find though, like the fuzzy ones, stuff comes off of them so easiely, it's unnerving
16:47 <Nothing\> like anything i bought with feathers initially, the feathers would come off with almost no effort at all
17:14 <Nothing\> same for anything fuzzy or fluff or with eyes that aren't just stuck on
17:51 <Nothing\> it's made me really paranoid about what toys i give them
18:29 Quit: Mb ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
22:11 <Ampera> Hi Nothing\
22:18 <Nothing\> hey Ampera
22:21 <Nothing\> how's it going?
22:42 * Nothing\ tackle hugs Ampera 
22:51 <T3sl4> hmm, beans need about another hour, or more
23:04 <Ampera> I'm in the ER, my dad tripped and hit his head
23:15 <Ampera> They're bringing him for a CT scan now.
23:28 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:49 <Ampera> They say he may have a minor concussion
25:36 * T3sl4 hugs steve30
31:30 <steve30> yay T3sl4 hugs :)
36:58 Join: Mb ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
41:19 Join: Mb_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
42:28 Part: Mb_ ([email protected]) from #EEVblog (Leaving)
44:18 Quit: Mb ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
45:58 Join: Mb ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
48:55 <T3sl4> steve30: https://i.imgur.com/EYgBGJD.jpg
50:44 * steve30 meows cutely ;)
04:53 <hsn> eeblog time
05:01 <hsn> EEVBlog time
05:02 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 08:05 Sydney time.
05:07 <hsn> gn
06:43 <Ampera> He's been discharged, on our way back.
07:07 <Ampera> No cranial bleeding
29:13 Quit: TheDude ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
01:18 Join: jubas ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:07 <jubas> how much more efficient constant current driver is compared to a simple series resistor for driving LEDs?
15:50 Quit: Guest|83736 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
36:35 <T3sl4> zero
37:18 <rust_collector> YAAAY!
42:00 * T3sl4 transforms rust_collector to oxidation state zero
43:11 <rust_collector> mmhf fff mmmmhfpp
43:37 <rust_collector> zero is a nice number
44:48 * electrohead zeroes out rust_collector's hard drive and hides
45:04 <rust_collector> hard drive?
45:15 <electrohead> :p
45:45 <rust_collector> ok, I have some of them. you better get going, then maybe I would use them some time
46:01 <electrohead> lol, is everything solid state on your end?
46:13 <rust_collector> mm, yes
46:26 <electrohead> I need to eventually get an SSD for my main laptop, would help a bunch
46:27 <rust_collector> I think I maybe have a.. no. all ssd
46:58 <electrohead> only my main server has a SSD, and that's the OS/system drive
46:59 <rust_collector> oh, yes, I have one laptop with a wd blue thing still
47:29 <rust_collector> even the core duo box out in the garage has an ssd
47:54 <jubas> T3sl4: can you explain?
48:03 <T3sl4> electrohead: you have to use ultraviolet
48:36 <T3sl4> jubas: at the same supply voltage and output current, both dissipate the same power, only a switching current reg saves power
49:31 <Ampera> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310478241989263371/761010973452271636/20200930_194452.jpg
49:42 * electrohead hugs Ampera
49:47 * Ampera hugs electrohead
49:50 <Ampera> how do
49:54 <rust_collector> CAT!
50:03 <Ampera> кошка
50:30 <electrohead> it do :P about to close up here at work, and I'm off for the next few days, so.. alcohol may be involved later on tonight, hah
50:43 <Ampera> blech, but very good
50:49 <Ampera> about to make some noodles
50:56 <rust_collector> HEY! yeah ok, never mind
51:59 <T3sl4> slightly oxygenated short carbon chains \o/
52:30 <rust_collector> sounds tasty
52:33 <jubas> T3sl4: I see, I had a feeling it should be the same, but I find claims here and there that opposite is the true, e.g. "Constant-current drivers are preferable because they are more consistent, efficient, and flexible, especially for high-power LEDs"
52:54 <T3sl4> see, none of those are efficiency
53:01 <electrohead> SMPS for everything \o/
53:08 * T3sl4 switches electrohead on and off really fast
53:17 * electrohead short circuits
53:31 <Mb> May be its a SMPS constant current driver ?
54:03 <rust_collector> maybe. but only if that is what it is
54:05 * T3sl4 blinks
54:12 <T3sl4> well, aside from the one that says efficiency, but that's wrong
54:27 * electrohead eats half of Ampera's noodles
54:48 * Ampera eats half of electrohead
55:33 <rust_collector> so now Ampera has.. 3/4 of the noodles?
55:33 * T3sl4 licks half of Ampera
57:15 <T3sl4> jubas: the consistency thing is more important, since the LED power is then independent of supply voltage
57:35 <T3sl4> and the current limiter's power dissipation is only proportional to supply, not quadratic (P = V^2/R)
57:54 <T3sl4> which might be considered efficiency in a perverse way, but that would still be wrong :P
03:04 <jubas> but the total consumed power will remain the same in both cases, right?
03:34 <T3sl4> no
03:53 <T3sl4> power is V*I, add it up for each part of the circuit
08:48 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Indiana Jones Trivia: Are you smarter than a 5yo? https://t.co/ZigofoO2Ii
18:55 <jubas> T3sl4: let’s try this example: 7 LEDs (3.3V, 10mA) connected in series, 15R resistor, 24 V input, total power consumption = 7*0.01 + 0.9^2/15 = 0.124 mA (~3W)
19:41 <jubas> am I doing it right? if so, what would be the total power consumption using a constant current regulator?
19:49 <T3sl4> what is 7*0.01?
21:42 <jubas> 7 Leds * 0.01A
22:07 <T3sl4> currents don't add in series, and the sum is still a current
22:12 <T3sl4> you can't add a current with a power :)
25:29 <jubas> and how do you calculate total current for 7 LEDs + series resistor?
25:47 <T3sl4> the total current is as designed
26:17 <T3sl4> the total current times the total voltage equals the total power, so, 0.24W
26:57 <T3sl4> the total voltage equals all the voltages added up, so, 7 * 3.3V + I*R = 24V
27:53 <T3sl4> the resistor takes up the rest, so if the LEDs drop 3.3 * 7 = 23.1V, the resistor has to drop 0.9V so needs to be R = V/I = 0.9 / 0.01 = 90 ohms, not 15
37:38 <jubas> ok, so resistor will dissipate (waste) 9mW, which is quite good
38:06 <jubas> and if I replace resistor with a constant current driver, what do I get then?
38:39 <T3sl4> same voltage drop, same current, same power
40:01 <rust_collector> but which option will look nicest on the list of features?
40:26 <T3sl4> the difference is, say supply increases to 24.5V, then the LEDs still drop about 3.3 * 7 = 23.1V so the resistor drops 1.4V, and 90 ohms at 1.4V is 15.6mA
40:45 <T3sl4> the LEDs get noticeably brighter, and power consumption rises to 0.381W
41:04 <T3sl4> in practice, the LEDs have some resistance as well, so the current won't go up that sharply, but it will go up
41:25 <T3sl4> whereas the CCS maintains 10mA, so total power only rises from 0.24 to 0.245W, negligible
41:50 <T3sl4> indeed the CCS won't dissipate that much power until supply rises to 38V
42:14 <jubas> ohh, now it makes sense, because I was not sure I understood this part: "and the current limiter's power dissipation is only proportional to supply, not quadratic"
43:22 <jubas> so, as long as I have a well regulated 24V, I basically do not need a constant current driver, resistor will do equally well
43:41 <T3sl4> right
44:15 <T3sl4> and as long as nothing fails -- which might be a consideration in some products, but other than that, LEDs are pretty reliable
45:49 <jubas> and if voltage goes below 24V, will the LEDs shine brighter with a constant current driver?
46:01 <jubas> say 23.5V
47:31 <T3sl4> same brightness, until it runs out of headroom
47:39 <T3sl4> (minimum being the drop out voltage)
50:21 <jubas> if I understand correctly what they're saying, they try to prove the opposite: https://snipboard.io/CjsXHY.jpg
50:51 <jubas> "constant current driver is basically doing nothing until the Voltage "Umin" is reached"
53:45 <jubas> at that graph, 50% luminosity is achieved with lover voltage when constant current driver is used
54:25 <T3sl4> i doubt the types of LED are comparable
54:50 <jubas> so, marketing BS?
55:18 <T3sl4> the "medium" kind has a different threshold, which may be using more LEDs per string, or higher Vf ones
55:55 <T3sl4> the "standard" ones may be using the same thresholds (the red curve intersects green at 15V) but more resistance
56:53 <T3sl4> at 24V, it doesn't matter, same brightness; at other voltages, the resistor limited one varies proportional to difference, the CCS doesn't
57:24 <T3sl4> and yeah you can run the CCS on a lower voltage, that's what's nice about it
07:42 <coppice> T3sl4: is a medium LED a new kind of spirit lamp?
08:05 <T3sl4> yes, but it lacks a certain...spark
10:45 <jubas> ok, that leads to my main question/dilemma: I want to power 5 m of addressable LED strips that are 10 m away from the power supply (24V), I cannot move power supply any closer; usually addressable LED strips are 5V rated, but there a few that are 24V; from what I understand all 24V ones have constant current drivers inside them; what would you reco
10:45 <jubas> mmend to use: 24V LED strips or 5V LED strips + DC-DC (switch mode) converter placed near the strip? It looks like the latter one should be much more power efficient
12:41 Join: Octane_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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22:25 <T3sl4> i'd worry about the converter just because it's probably noisy
22:31 <T3sl4> a proper one would be fine tho
23:00 <T3sl4> either way, the efficiency is limited by whatever the individual strip efficiency is
23:14 <T3sl4> i suppose it's not going to be much different, the 24V just sounds simpler
27:45 <jubas> if only one LED is turned on, then it has drop 24-3.1V=20.9V, even if three are simultaneously turned on situation does not get significantly better
31:06 <jubas> that's ~400mW per LED, or 60 LEDs * 5 m * 0.5 = 120W in dissipated power, if my math is right
32:21 <jubas> if LED is 20mA rated
33:30 <rust_collector> Now I am just curious, what will you use 5 meters of adressable leds for?
33:51 <rust_collector> ( I am old and still use lightbulbs)
37:01 <jubas> for something like this: https://hackster.imgix.net/uploads/attachments/381792/img_20171105_145844240_xTkYRmhsAM.jpg
38:06 <rust_collector> heh, ok. and you can turn on and off parts of it?
38:47 <jubas> yes
39:13 <rust_collector> I guess that is sort of neat
45:56 <jubas> given that DC-DC converters achieve 90% or even higher efficiency, that would be a lot of power saved
46:09 <jubas> T3sl4: what do you think?
46:29 <T3sl4> power saved where
51:13 <jubas> I mean if I use a DC-DC converter, I will lose about (24-5)*0.1= 1.9W and if I don't, 120W will be dissipated by the resistors
53:48 <T3sl4> dc-dc converter doesn't drop voltage and dissipate power in the same way, and you simply can't wire 24V to 5V strings, it'll blow
55:13 <jubas> I will wire 10 meter of cable to the dc-dc converter (24V), then I will use its output (5V) to power LED strips
56:15 <Nothing\> ugh
56:24 <T3sl4> right, but as opposed to what
56:28 <Nothing\> some places need to invest in more pallatable smelling hand sanitizer
56:31 <Nothing\> know what i mean?
56:59 <Nothing\> or hand sanitizer that doesn't feel all slimy and gross on my hands because the dispenser puts out way too much
57:21 <Nothing\> i end up rubbing it half way up my arms to get rid of it
57:41 <T3sl4> i don't like most scented cleaners/hygeine things, tbh
57:48 <Nothing\> same
58:01 <Nothing\> especially those smelly sprays that are supposed to freshen the air
58:11 <Nothing\> to me, half of them just remind me of a shitty bathroom
58:25 <rust_collector> that is because it is?
58:28 <Nothing\> and the other half just smell gross in their own unique way
59:00 <Nothing\> rust_collector, well after a lifetime of a mother who used to use it after she used the bathroom, i just began to associate them with shitty bathroom smell
59:05 <Nothing\> oh guys
59:10 <Nothing\> i saw the funniest thing today
59:16 <Nothing\> just now in fact
59:33 <Nothing\> a guy trying to drive a manual car who clearly doesn't know how to drive manual. or anything about cars
00:04 <Nothing\> i was sitting and eating mcdonald's with my mom while i waited for my script, and this guy comes around the corner. stalls the cor
00:06 <Nothing\> *car
00:13 <T3sl4> crunch crunch griiing
00:15 <T3sl4> d
00:17 <Nothing\> then gets the engine started again, puts it into first
00:47 <Nothing\> and then redlines the engine to the point that smoke's coming out of it, stops. redlines it again, stops. tries again.
00:53 <Nothing\> never attempting to switch gears
01:42 <Nothing\> then he gets out and says to some woman walking by "my brakes are smoking for some reason" then proceeds to get down and inspect the brakes
02:03 <Nothing\> gets back in the car, shakes it a few times by hand then gets back in it
02:13 <Nothing\> redlines it again a few times
02:21 <Nothing\> puts it in reverse, goes in reverse a bit down the road
02:28 <Nothing\> then back into first and redlining some more
02:47 <Nothing\> then he finally gently creeps into the mcdonald's parking lot
03:22 <Nothing\> and maybe 20 minutes later after i pickeud up my script across the street, we could still hear him redlining the engine in the parking lot.
04:04 <Nothing\> i just watned to scream out the window "shift the damn gear up"
04:06 <T3sl4> sounds like me back when i was, oh, 16 or so
04:11 <Nothing\> but i didn't wanna get involved
04:49 <Nothing\> T3sl4, apparently in the UK, i dunno if they still do but back in the day they used to issue separate licenses for manual transmission
05:17 <Nothing\> and i can see why. i don't drive myself, but i've tried driving stick and it's a lot to concentrate on at once someone who isn't used to it
05:31 <Nothing\> lol my mom used to just ride the clutch... on my dad's Cobra
06:05 <Nothing\> of course he never let her drive it. but i distinctly remember her doing it on the way back from picking it up from being repaired or something.
06:13 <T3sl4> :S
06:20 <rust_collector> here, everyone gets a license for a manual, but in the last few years, you can get one limited to automatics
06:33 <Nothing\> it's okay, the way their divorce went he owes her a lot more than that car
06:46 <T3sl4> ouch
06:46 <Nothing\> rust_collector, right on. where's here again?
06:53 <rust_collector> norway
06:56 <steve30> You can get an automatic-only license if you prefer
07:00 <Nothing\> i can never remember who's from where. i just assume yall are european until you say otherwise.
07:05 <Nothing\> rust_collector, ah right on
07:07 <rust_collector> same in most of europe, I believe
07:08 <steve30> (in england)
07:14 <Nothing\> i used to know a norwegian guy way way back in the day
07:19 <Nothing\> like early 00's
07:27 <rust_collector> heh, waaay back, lol
07:33 <Nothing\> he was into buying and selling jewelery, but he was also a heroin addict
07:43 <Nothing\> and like 20 or 30 years my senior
08:07 <Nothing\> he was one of the older guys who came to our chat back then
08:18 <Nothing\> was always posting pics of him on holiday in ibiza
08:32 <Nothing\> scantily clad, of course. being the european he was
09:06 <jubas> T3sl4: here are the two options I am considering: https://snipboard.io/CM9vJn.jpg
09:09 <Nothing\> i was only like 15 or 16 at the time and he was like 40 something
09:57 <Nothing\> i called him randomly once but i forgot about the time difference and started screaming his online name at him when he answered so he was really confused and seemed kinda pissed off that i woke him up. i always felt bad about it
10:13 <Nothing\> i wonder whatever happened to him. hopefully he cleaned up and got successful with the jewelery game
10:53 <rust_collector> that sounds like the guy mom met in jamaica, lol
11:12 <Nothing\> but knowing him, he probably got involved in shady dealings to support his habit and eventually got busted as one tends to do when they become a career criminal with a predisposition to desperation aka the addiction can toy with judgement and rationality
11:16 <T3sl4> jubas: right, that solves the wiring problem, but the overall efficiency is (24V strip efficiency) vs (5V strip efficiency) * (DC-DC efficiency)
11:21 <jubas> my argument is that the second option should be very inefficient, if let's say one LED is turned on in all 300 RGB LEDs
11:25 <Nothing\> rust_collector, haha my mom met a guy in jamaica too
11:43 <T3sl4> DC-DC efficiency is <100% so the total efficiency can only be lower. the question is whether 5V is more efficient than 24V, enough to be worth it
12:12 <T3sl4> if only one string of LEDs is turned on, it's only using the 10mA or whatever, no extra power is wasted
13:24 <Nothing\> oh yeha so it turns out what i thought was a small strip of RGB lights wound up being just plain green LEDs
14:34 <Nothing\> i wasn't sure why they were only ever green and couldn't figured out how to change the color, so i checked out the die under a pocket microscope cuz the LEDs had flat ends rather than rounded so i could see them easily enough and sure enough, only 1 LED per light
14:34 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/CbMJyuk.jpg
14:54 <Nothing\> i'd like to get a strip of some decent addressable LEDs or something for xmas lighting
15:12 <Nothing\> lol T3sl4
15:20 <Nothing\> that was about my reaction
15:24 <Nothing\> that and "it is bright"
16:11 <Nothing\> i'm not sure i've ever seen a pure green LED that was so bright. they were always the older, dimmer ones.
16:14 <rust_collector> you should ziptie those under your moms car
16:17 <Nothing\> i forget what the technologies are called
16:27 <Nothing\> rust_collector, you know that's actually not a bad idea
16:32 <rust_collector> I know
16:37 <Nothing\> cuz these ones, at least run on 12v
16:48 <rust_collector> but can they take 15?
16:50 <jubas> T3sl4: 0.01A*24V = 0.24W vs 0.01*5V = 0.05W
16:54 <Nothing\> they probably could
17:02 <Nothing\> especially if they're running outside and in the winter
17:38 <rust_collector> yes, so now you just have to make sure it stays winter all the time...
17:46 <T3sl4> jubas: you're also lighting five LEDs instead of one
17:51 <T3sl4> or however many they use
18:04 <Nothing\> lol yeah. not so sure it'd like those 40 degrees summer days
18:05 <jubas> why 5? only one
18:37 <Nothing\> it's funny, the apparently temperature here varies by up to 80 degrees centigrade
18:57 <Nothing\> from -40c on extremely cold days and +40c on extremely hot days
19:11 <Nothing\> with windchill and heat index respectively, though
19:37 <Nothing\> still not bad for canada, given what most yanks assume about us.
19:50 <T3sl4> do they make 24V led strips that are just single leds lit at a time?
20:02 <jubas> yes
20:23 <rust_collector> Nothing\, probably about the same as here, but probably cooler on average
20:25 <Nothing\> i'd like to make my own blinkenlichten LEDs for xmas
20:46 <Nothing\> but i need a good soldering set. no soldering iron i've bought so far gets hot enough to do a good job
20:56 <Nothing\> ie 30 watt cheapy no temp control
21:11 <Nothing\> even the 60 watt didn't work great
21:36 <Nothing\> plus i have no real way to clean them except these wee soldering sponges that are maybe 1 square inch
21:39 <rust_collector> a 30 watt cheapie iron will get more than hot enough. it is something else
21:44 <Nothing\> and like 3mm thick
21:55 <Nothing\> rust_collector, can flux go off?
22:02 <Nothing\> or the solder itself, pure lead
22:15 <rust_collector> uhm. you do not want pure lead, I think
22:18 <Nothing\> cuz i was using this stuff from my grandfather's stuff
22:26 <rust_collector> unless you are doing roofing or something
22:29 <Nothing\> kester brand, so it's a good brand
22:40 <Nothing\> but the flux doesn't seem to mix properly with the solder
22:50 <Nothing\> i always get blobs of flux
22:59 <rust_collector> I believe you want some tin in your solder also
23:08 <Nothing\> and from what i understand, you heat the compononent, not the solder, correct?
23:13 <Nothing\> heat component, apply solder
23:19 <rust_collector> well, sort of yes
23:21 <Nothing\> while still applying heat
23:36 <Nothing\> well i tried that and it just wouldn't melt the solder
23:50 <Nothing\> so i sort tried a mix of the component and the soldering iron
23:57 <rust_collector> I think you have solder made for... non-electronics
24:00 <Nothing\> and the more i did it, the more solder built up on the tip
24:12 <Nothing\> rust_collector, well my grandfather was an electrician
24:16 <Nothing\> so it's very possible
24:32 <Nothing\> he didn't do any electronic work
24:37 <rust_collector> grandpas have lots of things for things they did, that was not their job
24:43 <Nothing\> it's also fairly thick gauge
24:57 <Nothing\> well i don't think he did any plumbing
25:20 <Nothing\> anyways, i need a chisel tip, too
25:35 <rust_collector> maybe he figured out it was not what he was looking for, and that is why it is still there, so you can use it?
25:40 <Nothing\> these, i dunno what they're called. the standard cone shape tip ones just don't do it
26:03 <Nothing\> it could be
26:20 <rust_collector> I like the small screwdriver sort of tips. I think the one I use now is 2.xmm
26:23 <Nothing\> well one of these days i'll save up enough for soldering stuff
26:28 <Nothing\> good soldering stuff
26:37 <Nothing\> rust_collector, yeah those are the chisel tips
26:48 <Nothing\> they're best for electronics, i understand. especially SMT
27:42 <Nothing\> the other thing too, is these soldering irons would oxidize so badly
27:57 <Nothing\> everything metal on them would be black and blue after one use
28:20 <Nothing\> not jut the tip, but the metal sheath around it too
28:25 <Nothing\> and none of them are grounded
29:02 <Nothing\> i need a good solder pump, too
29:11 <rust_collector> they probably had a pure copper tip, I guess. and what kind of flux do you have? and did you tin the tip before you started to use it? and... stuff
29:13 <Nothing\> the one i have just spits molten solder out the back of it
29:28 <Nothing\> the flux is just the stuff that's in the solder
29:55 <Nothing\> and yeah the tip was tinned, but it still kept "sucking" up the solder more than my parts did
29:56 <rust_collector> because if it is the wrong kind, it will eat anything metal
30:07 <Nothing\> i had a real hard time getting the solder to stick to my parts
30:24 <rust_collector> and if it is pure lead... I would think it is the wrong kind
30:38 <Nothing\> which along with the globs of flux tells me the flux isn't mixing properly
31:49 <rust_collector> I do not think it is supposed to mix. it should clean the surfaces.
31:53 <Nothing\> i need to invest in like, a good all purpose soldering station, real flux, proper solder for electronics
32:07 <Nothing\> i thought it helped the solder melt too
32:52 <rust_collector> get some good solder and maybe some flux, I would not worry too much about a fancy soldering station thingie. but sure, if you want one
33:03 <Nothing\> not to mention a safe place to rest my soldering iron rather than one of those dinky steel things you fold out of a cut-out
33:16 <rust_collector> yeah, that is a thing
33:36 <Nothing\> i'd get that thing where the cord was heavier, so it would constantly pull my soldering iron towards the floor whenever i set it down
33:40 <rust_collector> and one of those brass wool cleaning things?
33:48 <Nothing\> yeah i definitely need one of those
33:57 <rust_collector> heh
34:20 <rust_collector> if you rip the brass wool out of them, they make awesome ashtrays
35:09 <Nothing\> i was confused about the sponge thing cuz i always figured an artificial sponge would just melt
35:49 <Nothing\> and sure enough, that's exactly what happened when i took a dish sponge that couldn't soak up moisture to save its life and tried wiping my soldering iron on it
35:53 <Nothing\> just melted
36:28 <rust_collector> But... don't go completely lemon, and get one of allthethings, and don't buy the most expensive station you can afford, unless that is your thing.
37:06 <rust_collector> get the solder and flux first, imo. then see if you can do something useful with what you have
37:26 <Nothing\> i'd probably get a hako station
37:35 <Nothing\> they seem reasonably priced
37:35 <rust_collector> ok
37:42 <Nothing\> or was it the other one i'm thinking of
37:54 <rust_collector> good question
38:07 <Nothing\> i need to watch some soldering iron station videos on eevblog
38:12 <Nothing\> dave had some good suggestions
38:16 <rust_collector> get one you can buy parts for
38:26 <Nothing\> actually big clive's got something like a 40 minute video on them
38:49 <Nothing\> yeah i at least ened to be able to change the tip
38:54 <rust_collector> it only needs to get hot.
38:55 <rust_collector> yes
38:57 <Nothing\> which yo ucan at least do with these ones i have
39:07 <Nothing\> which i know, because the tip is permanently loose on the one
39:15 <Nothing\> it's scary to use
39:35 <rust_collector> is it one of those that have a little set screw on the side?
39:39 <Nothing\> yup
39:45 <rust_collector> niiiice!
39:50 <Nothing\> i tightened it as much as it'd go
39:59 <Nothing\> it's like, thermal warping or something
40:04 <rust_collector> yeah, they never do anything, lol
40:43 <Nothing\> well i'm ure the threading on the screws is getting destroyed by the warping from the delta temp
41:20 <rust_collector> I have the (back then) cheap yihua 936 thing, it works just fine. it does not have enough oomph for big things, but it does almost everything just fine
41:33 <Nothing\> yihua!
41:37 <Nothing\> that was the one i was thining of
42:05 <Nothing\> much as i'd like to spend like $500 on a hakko
42:06 <jubas> T3sl4: here I found a datasheet for single addressable 12V LED: www.normandled.com/upload/201805/GS8208%20LED%20Datasheet.pdf
43:06 <jubas> so, yes, they do make them, it is just hard to find a proper datasheet
43:29 <Nothing\> these edibles i got claim there's no cannabis taste to them
43:30 <Nothing\> bullshit
43:32 <rust_collector> lots of people really like the little t12 style irons. I do not really have to have it up to temp in 2.6 seconds, so..
43:38 <Nothing\> no gummy bears in the world are this bitter
43:49 <rust_collector> but they seem to work fine
44:15 <rust_collector> and they are cheap-ish
44:17 <Nothing\> rust_collector, that's the other thing about the cheapies. i hate having to wait like 5 mins for it to heat up. especially if i just have one or two quick things to solder.
44:26 <rust_collector> sure
44:52 <Nothing\> i'm not a very patient man and tbh, waiting is one of the things i hate worst
45:06 <Nothing\> and heaven forbid i should forget about it while waiting. which for me, is very likely.
45:11 <rust_collector> I am actually looking for a soldering gun. all I find is just crap
45:24 <Nothing\> i have a soldering gun
45:34 <Nothing\> i always wondered what they're good for
45:53 <rust_collector> I have half a bucket of them. most are burned out.
45:56 <Nothing\> other than making huge puddles of molten solder when i was a kid
46:47 <rust_collector> they work great for larger wires, and soldering stuff to metal boxes and stuff
46:48 <Nothing\> lol i remember one time i musta been like 12 and i was feeling all emo and pissy with my parents over something. so i locked myself in the garage and just melted down as much solder as i could with my face right in the smoke hoping i'd get lead poisoning
46:57 <Nothing\> as i was under the impression lead poisoning was more acute
46:59 <T3sl4> jubas: ew
47:32 <Nothing\> but at those temps, it's probably more the rosin or flux you have to worry about with fumes
47:45 <Nothing\> pretty sure lead boils quite a bit hotter
48:09 <Nothing\> ah well, i did far worse to myself as a teenager
48:56 <Nothing\> that reminds me, apparently on tiktok there's a new challenge or meme or whatever where kids are overdosing on benedryl for their videos
48:57 <jubas> T3sl4: do you agree that it would be more power efficient to use 5V strips instead of those 12-24V?
49:17 <Nothing\> which don't get me wrong, i did that shit when i was there age, minus the youtube and public eye
49:24 <T3sl4> if that's what's in there, and not a bunch of stacked LEDs/strings, most likely ya
49:27 <Nothing\> but holy fuck people
49:44 <Nothing\> what's with these so-called "challenges" that are more likely to kill you than anything
50:01 <T3sl4> kids are dumb and parents don't care
50:07 <T3sl4> (or are dumber)
50:08 <Nothing\> like the fire challenge. where you... cover yourself in something flammable and light yourself on fire
50:12 <Nothing\> or the tide pod challenge
50:20 <Nothing\> or that pass-out game
50:32 <Nothing\> but that wasn't so much of an online challenge i don't think
50:39 <Nothing\> not that i know of anyway
50:42 <rust_collector> https://www.ebay.com/itm/KSGER-Mini-T12-Soldering-Station-DIY-STM32-OLED-V2-01-Controller-907-Handle/164303360455?hash=item26413e51c7:g:kmwAAOSwOFNfGYFG
51:51 <Nothing\> that's exactly what i'm talking about rust_collector
52:07 <rust_collector> well, it is 5 in the morning here. I think it is time for my nap
52:23 <Nothing\> i'll hopefully be needing one soon
52:28 <rust_collector> youtube people seems to like those
52:36 <Nothing\> i've gotta help my brother move tomorrow so i'm trying to drug myself to sleep
52:51 <rust_collector> that will help in the morning, lol
52:55 <rust_collector> good night
53:00 <Nothing\> ie, eating a bunch of sleeping pills and literally a gram of pure thc
53:04 <Nothing\> night man
53:47 <Nothing\> i'm going slow with the edibles though
54:37 <T3sl4> o/
54:48 <Nothing\> i don't get it. the nutritional info says a serving is 72g of gummies, but there are only 48g in a package
54:56 <Nothing\> T3sl4, heyo
55:02 * Nothing\ hugs T3sl4 
55:12 * T3sl4 gives Nothing\ a warm duvet 
55:24 <Nothing\> heh i actually don't sleep with anything on
55:29 <Nothing\> no blankets, no clothes, nothing
55:33 <Nothing\> find em too constricting
55:47 <Nothing\> was quite embarassing when the police raided my house lol
55:49 <T3sl4> ah, keep the heater going then?
55:54 <Nothing\> ideally yes
55:59 <Nothing\> but it doesn't always work that way
56:13 <Nothing\> i DID have a space heater i bought that was refurbished
56:19 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Holy mouse ears. How many are left? https://t.co/rn6rlTxNp2
56:34 <Nothing\> but within 2 weeks, thankfully while i was doing something in the dark, i noticed something glowing in the space heater
57:01 <Nothing\> ithought it was a power indicator light or something at first, but then i realized it was something inside the space heater
57:11 <Nothing\> unplugged it just as it started turning white and smoking
57:28 <Nothing\> upon further inspection it seems one of the spade terminals failed
57:38 <Nothing\> so i'm guessing it was underrated
57:54 <T3sl4> or badly crimped, or it just oxidized badly
58:08 <Nothing\> yeah, any number of things could bring up the resistance
58:22 <Nothing\> the crimps on the rest of them did seem loose
58:35 <Nothing\> like i could just pull some of them right out
58:45 <Nothing\> gotta wonder how many fires that place has caused
59:31 <Nothing\> i had another space heater, the plug on it wound up melting slightly and turning black on one side
00:26 <Nothing\> eventually the thermal cutoff would just kick on if i ran it at full power so i could only run it at 3rd or 2nd lowest speeds
01:07 <T3sl4> maybe not too many, eventually it melts out or as long as the plastic is self-extinguishing enough
01:42 <Nothing\> that would make sense
08:06 <electrohead> o/
08:12 * electrohead hugs T3sl4 and Nothing\
08:20 <T3sl4> :D
08:32 <electrohead> sup you sexy people
08:35 <electrohead> :P
11:18 <T3sl4> just chillin before bed
11:34 <electrohead> what time is it there?
13:45 <electrohead> https://i.imgur.com/AnRM7lK.jpg
13:48 <electrohead> cheers!
27:09 <T3sl4> i had a bourbon barrel stout earlier
27:12 <T3sl4> 11% i think :)
34:23 <electrohead> :D
34:36 <electrohead> the steel reserve I am drinking is 8%
34:41 <electrohead> the drink before this, was 10%
34:45 * electrohead looks
34:57 <electrohead> actually, fuck it, I'll take a picture
40:48 <electrohead> https://i.imgur.com/KXqULZZ.jpg
41:12 <electrohead> this is the stuff we stock at the store
43:00 <T3sl4> fruit hybrid? neat
45:54 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: The per piece price better be through the roof, because I'm going out on a limb here and predicting that volume isn't going to be very high... https://t.co/AhebFbla4a
47:58 <electrohead> well, beyond the usual beer
48:07 <electrohead> we have so much in stock :D
48:45 <T3sl4> strange, i don't think i'd ever realized an octohedron is also a trigonal antiprism, but i just realized that when looking at one
48:47 * T3sl4 shrug
51:12 * electrohead looks
51:34 <electrohead> what are you refering to?
51:52 <electrohead> referring *
56:42 Quit: jubas ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
03:51 <T3sl4> you know what an antiprism is?
16:43 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I fixed that Rode AI-1 microphone issue thanks to a viewer. The mic windows sample rate was set to 44.1kHz and the line out was set to 48KHz. Setting mic input to 48KHz fixed the problem. Wow, never would have guessed that. https://t.co/ndpGNjI0ds
24:38 Quit: MRiddickW ([email protected]) Client exited
39:29 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Aircon vent moved to give me a nice continuous strip of lights along the length of the benches. Far lights placed to avoid Tagarno micropore reflections. Plus fill light on the far wall. All 5000k 90+CRI non glare https://t.co/F2D2RcJpxW
42:15 Quit: IRCStats ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
42:53 Join: IRCStats ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:12 Quit: IRCStats ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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48:05 Join: Polesch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
51:28 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:15 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: DIYODE Magazine for Makers: [Issue 39] 100 pages of maker goodness, out now! Build an ATtiny85-based 4-button combination lock with relay output. Make a desktop weather station using an Arduino Nano BLE Sense. And much more! Available in print, PDF or online digital book:⁠ Visit https://t.co/zDxotDC0ee https://t.co/iOPCXWy9Fp
11:43 Join: clarkos ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:43 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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33:57 Join: IRCStats ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
34:16 Quit: IRCStats ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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34:24 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Yes, I am working on a Tesla battery video... (whiteboard) And Yes, I know it's kinda late to the party, but could still be useful.
53:19 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:36 Quit: Polesch ([email protected]) Connection closed
21:13 Topic Is: Official IRC channel of the EEVblog - www.eevblog.tv
21:13 Set By: (ChanOP) on: Fri Jan 24 20:18:35 2020
27:06 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
48:46 Quit: Stiff ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
49:42 Join: Stiff ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:05 <hsn> gm
57:27 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Enormous lines at the drive through Covid testing clinic... https://t.co/NL4h5bRUEH
08:52 Join: spark_gap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:47 <hsn> hello spark_gap
12:54 <hsn> i got a question to u
13:01 <spark_gap> hi
13:06 <hsn> how do u keep safe distance ?
15:45 <spark_gap> more or less like it is shown in this pic: https://twitter.com/KyleSonlin/status/1244727402850406402/photo/1
16:52 <spark_gap> or tlike here : https://ke2yk.com/2020/04/02/social-distancing-ala-ham-radio/
18:26 <hsn> thats not gonna spark
18:34 <hsn> :D
24:38 <Ysjoelfir> hello all
26:12 <spark_gap> that depends on voltage :)
26:40 <Ysjoelfir> oh. how many volts do I need to say hello?
26:40 <EEVBlog> Hello there, Ysjoelfir!
26:51 <Ysjoelfir> Hello there, EEVBot!
29:23 <spark_gap> haow many volts you want just try not to exceed your voltage brakedown limit
29:32 <spark_gap> *how
33:30 * Ysjoelfir breaks down and cries
35:39 <K> hello
35:39 <EEVBlog> Hello there, K!
35:43 <K> a win!
36:03 <Ysjoelfir> so you chose your voltage right, K!
36:24 <K> luck
48:00 Join: Guest|32671 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:29 <Guest|32671> Hi Dave, I would like to know when you will have "uCurrent GOLD Multimeter Adapter" on stock again ?? I would really like to buy one :) I have also checked "Sparky Lab" in UK and he is out of stock to :(
51:04 <Ysjoelfir> Hello unknown Guest. There is no Dave here.
54:00 <Guest|32671> But who is "EEVBlog" user then ?
55:50 <electrohead> I am Dave, we shall have it back again soon!
55:58 * electrohead laughs and runs away fast
56:18 <electrohead> ok ok, sorry, I'm not Dave
56:34 <electrohead> that was mean
56:57 <K> Guest|32671: you will have better luck to get response from Dave if you post on the forum
59:18 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog is a bot.
59:29 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog convert 1537409 km to mi
59:29 <EEVBlog> The result is: 955,301.368 mi
03:10 <Guest|32671> Okay, I'll try the forum :), Have a great day everyone :)
03:14 Quit: Guest|32671 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
03:14 <electrohead> serious: I made amends with my neighbor across the street officially, even though she's a meth addict. made sure that she knows I can be a decent person, regardless what her addiction is, and now she wants to have a beer with me
04:18 <electrohead> hope that counts for something
05:34 <Ysjoelfir> uh, nice. I want a beer, too
05:52 * electrohead offers beer to everyone
06:05 <electrohead> just as long as you are nice and respectful :)
06:32 <Ysjoelfir> I hope its good beer, and not a shitty Kölsch?
06:49 <electrohead> it can be good beer :P
07:01 <electrohead> (we have a lot at the shop)
07:58 <electrohead> it's past 4 am here, my semi-drunk ass needs to get to bed
09:14 <electrohead> now it's time to play the 'peas' segment by george carlin, where he goes off and off about how much he loves peas, and even sings a small little tune about them
09:29 <Ysjoelfir> xD
09:39 <electrohead> :D
10:02 <electrohead> and I do really apologize for saying I was Dave for a bit, there, before
10:44 <electrohead> yet, I imagine if I get drunk enough, I may feel like I'm Dave for an hour or two
10:47 <electrohead> :P
11:06 <Ysjoelfir> Is that part of the dunning kruger effect? XD
11:27 <electrohead> it's possible, lol
13:20 * electrohead overestimates all abilities as of right now, just to show off
13:47 <electrohead> afterall, this is IRC
13:55 <electrohead> am I doing this correctly?
13:58 <electrohead> xD
14:00 <electrohead> I kid I kid
14:32 <electrohead> haven't been up this late in so long, pretty sure the lack of sleep effect has kicked in a long time ago >.<
22:42 <electrohead> aand almost breaking stuff as I fall asleep, goodnight all o//
41:11 <Mb> electrohead, Where are you ?
41:19 <Mb> US ? UK ?
43:25 <spark_gap> lost in translation :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUOiO4dN65Y
47:34 <Mb> :D :D :D
47:50 <Mb> The Expert
47:52 <Mb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
56:06 <Halcyon> I am so knackered
56:24 <Ysjoelfir> knick knack
57:02 <K> kickered?
57:40 <spark_gap> then go into sleep mode
58:11 <Halcyon> It's too early
59:09 <hsn> EEVBlog, time
59:15 <hsn> EEVBlog time
59:15 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 18:59 Sydney time.
59:19 <hsn> no its not
00:17 <Ysjoelfir> haha :D
03:40 <Mb> What are other IRC servers that you're using ?
07:23 <K> that is a secret.
07:45 <Ysjoelfir> besides my companies IRC there is only the other EEVBlog channel
07:52 <Ysjoelfir> at least for me
09:34 * Ampera sneezes at Halcyon 
09:43 <Halcyon> :) Hello
09:44 * Ysjoelfir coronas Ampera
09:48 <Ampera> Hey Halcyon
09:56 <Ampera> EEVBlog Convert 100 Feet to Meters
09:56 <EEVBlog> The result is: 30.48 meters
09:56 * Halcyon blows pepper into Ampera's face
10:04 <Halcyon> Oh neat!
10:13 <Ampera> EEVBlog Convert 69F to C
10:13 <EEVBlog> The result is: 20.556 c
10:24 <Halcyon> That is so effing cool
10:32 <Ampera> EEVBlog Convert 69K to F
10:32 <EEVBlog> The result is: -335.47 f
10:49 <K> what is the other eevblog channel?
10:59 <Ysjoelfir> its nice, isn't it?
11:11 <Ysjoelfir> K - irc.afternet.org #eevglog (i think, let me check)
11:24 <Halcyon> K: There is a channel set up by a fan
11:31 <Ampera> AfterNET has what used to be the official EEVBlog channel, which was moved to here in order to help prop up austnet as the last major Australian IRC net
11:36 <Ysjoelfir> yep, thats the one
11:41 <Halcyon> Yup
11:44 <Ampera> Some people never moved over, and maintained a community over there.
11:53 <Ysjoelfir> "some" :D
12:08 <Ysjoelfir> there are actually more people over there
12:12 <Halcyon> Yeh some people are just grouchy and kept asking "why" and didn't see the point
12:25 <Ampera> sorta kinda, we have more active members than them I'd wager
12:29 <Ysjoelfir> but a completely different clientel than we have here^^
12:34 <Halcyon> Yeh there are a lot of lurkers, but there is more activity here
12:51 <Halcyon> We have also steadily increased in users
12:53 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100ml to tsp
12:53 <EEVBlog> The result is: 20.288 tsp
13:06 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100ml to itsp
13:06 <EEVBlog> The result is: 16.894 itsp
13:14 <Ysjoelfir> thats true. who is active over there who isn't here as well...? jspiros, enhanox.... some_person.... the dude... thats it?
13:25 <Halcyon> Is there a "help" page for this Ampera that tells you all the supported units?
13:28 <Ampera> TheDude is here on occasion
13:43 <Ampera> There is, say EEVBlog Help and you get PM'd a link with the units
13:48 <Halcyon> Nice
13:51 <Halcyon> I love it
14:13 <Ysjoelfir> Ampera was very active developing the bot yesterday (?). I enjoyed watching :D
14:17 <Ampera> I wrote the conversion engine myself, so a mistake or two is possible.
14:45 <Ampera> and some conversions are more accurate than others, not to mention no real awareness of significant digits afaik
14:59 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
15:06 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100.000ml to itsp
15:07 <EEVBlog> The result is: 16.894 itsp
15:10 <Ampera> yeah no
15:21 <Ampera> er,
15:26 <Halcyon> What is itsp?
15:28 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100.0000ml to itsp
15:28 <EEVBlog> The result is: 16.894 itsp
15:32 <Ampera> Imperial Teaspoons
15:40 <Ampera> it has common volumetric units for US Customary and Imperial
15:47 <Halcyon> I see
15:49 <Ampera> EEVBlog conver 100tsp to itsp
15:53 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100tsp to itsp
15:53 <EEVBlog> The result is: 83.267 itsp
16:01 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100cup to icup
16:01 <EEVBlog> The result is: 83.267 icup
16:02 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog convert 200ml to cups
16:03 <EEVBlog> The result is: 0.845 cups
16:07 <Ysjoelfir> uh, nice!
16:17 <Ysjoelfir> I'll use that for cooking. didn't notice it can do those, too
16:27 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 200ml to floz
16:28 <EEVBlog> The result is: 6.763 floz
16:32 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 200ml to ifloz
16:32 <EEVBlog> The result is: 7.039 ifloz
16:32 <Halcyon> I need to get Dave in here for a chat
16:52 <Halcyon> But before I do, we need to work out some way to control it. Otherwise it will just be nuts
17:06 <Ysjoelfir> wait until I am back from my lunch xD
17:13 <Halcyon> Haha not now :P
17:20 <Ysjoelfir> :P
17:29 <Halcyon> Unless we don't announce it and just make it a random time
17:34 <Ampera> I could add a raise hand feature to the bot that supplies someone with a list of people who want to ask a question or say Hi
17:44 <Ampera> Halcyon, then we run the risk of nobody being here
17:52 <Halcyon> 45 users isn't no body
18:09 <Ampera> you act like you've been on IRC for a week :P
18:18 <Ampera> the channel has dead air moments like any other
18:27 <Halcyon> I've been on IRC longer than you have been alive
18:31 <Ampera> I'm aware
18:33 <Ampera> so you should know that
18:39 <Halcyon> Of course, we pick a pre-determined time obviously
18:44 <Halcyon> But not announce it to the public
19:00 <Ampera> I'd say you should probably include Dave in that decision.
19:02 <Halcyon> At least as a test then work out the logistic. Test it on a small scale first.
19:08 <Halcyon> Well yes, obviously
20:03 <spark_gap> EEVBlog convert 100ml to seconds
20:04 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
20:12 <Ampera> doesn't do time
20:23 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert 90F into real units
20:23 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
20:28 <Halcyon> Faulty :P
20:31 <Ysjoelfir> hahaha :D
20:38 <Ampera> it does distance, weight, volume, and temperature
20:43 <Ampera> oh, and speed
20:52 <Ampera> EEVBlog Convert 88MPH to KPH
20:52 <EEVBlog> The result is: 141.622 kph
20:59 <Halcyon> Ampera, what about the obvious: I=V/R and other such electrical things?
21:11 <Ampera> Didn't do any of that.
21:12 <Ysjoelfir> ew, electrical things!
21:14 <Ysjoelfir> oh
21:14 <Ysjoelfir> !
21:40 <Ysjoelfir> you should definitely include that stupid wire gauge thing to a reasonable wire diameter converter
21:49 <Ampera> Half because I'm not knowledgeable about the things people would want, and wouldn't know where to start, and half because this was a 60-90 minute slack off from work I did on a spur of the moment
22:04 <Ampera> talk shit about AWG and I break your legs
22:23 <Ysjoelfir> My legs are way to fat to brake. they bent before breaking :D
22:27 <Halcyon> Well I am proud of you, you did well Ampera
22:29 <Halcyon> As always
22:36 <Ampera> ew gay
22:43 <Halcyon> :P
23:32 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100t to mt
23:32 <EEVBlog> The result is: 90.719 mt
23:58 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 999999999t to mg
23:59 <EEVBlog> The result is: 907,199,999,092,800,000 mg
24:34 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert 1/0t to mg
24:34 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
24:38 <Halcyon> Haha
24:39 <Halcyon> Damn
25:11 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert 0t to mg
25:11 <EEVBlog> The result is: 0 mg
25:18 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert -1t to mg
25:19 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
25:20 <Ampera> Programming the conversion engine as a pain in the ass. I did it the hard way by creating an if statement matrix that literally has a path for every single possible conversion
25:27 <Halcyon> I'm trying to break it :P
25:36 <Ampera> the source file is something like 1000+ lines
25:43 <Ampera> good luck, hsn tried desperately
25:56 <Ysjoelfir> hsn tried to break it already xD didn't succeed
26:01 <Halcyon> Hahah
26:35 <Ampera> Remember, I'm full time software QA, so I know a thing or two about how shit shouldn't break
26:42 <K> why not converting it to common units and then to target ?
26:48 <K> would cut down on code a bit
27:14 <Ampera> K, still have to make conversion functions for every single conversion possible, just with another step
27:25 <Ampera> from unit to X and from X to unit
28:11 <Ampera> I'm sure there is a better way, including finding a conversion library and just using that, but this seemed like something functional and simple I could do
28:49 <K> most could be converted using coeficients
29:08 <K> x*coef and x/coef
29:37 <Halcyon> Dave's electric bus video is really interesting
29:46 <Ampera> K, that's what I do already
29:50 <K> ah ok
29:57 <Ampera> the conversion factors are almost always single multiplications and divisions
30:49 <Ampera> What is beneficial about doing it the way I could do is I can also just copy/paste those factors from google's unit conversion engine
30:50 <Halcyon> https://youtu.be/cbDGxn0yYfA?t=2314
30:57 <Halcyon> This is where they start talking about systems
33:05 * Ampera messes with Halcyon's systems
33:11 <Halcyon> :DF
33:13 <Halcyon> :D
33:40 <Ampera> :DFDHJDIEJIFJSK
33:43 <Ampera> mine's longer
34:27 <Halcyon> Hah
36:49 * Ampera licks Halcyon 
36:51 <Ampera> stop being boring
37:11 Quit: Octane ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
37:21 <Halcyon> I'm looking at busses
37:25 <Halcyon> buses
37:35 <Ampera> busess
37:42 <Halcyon> I'm also not far off bed. I am pooped.
37:47 <Ampera> I'm looking at MTA subway trains
39:16 <hsn> EEVBlog convert %25s%25s%25s%25g to mg
39:17 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
39:33 <hsn> EEVBlog convert %25.4dg to mg
39:33 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
39:43 <hsn> EEVBlog convert %25.3fg to mg
39:44 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
39:53 <hsn> EEVBlog convert %25sg to mg
39:54 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
39:54 <K> EEVBlog convert 120 to 30%
39:55 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
40:12 * Ampera bashes hsn and K over the head with a ruler
40:15 <hsn> EEVBlog convert %25s%25s g to mg
40:16 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
40:22 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 500miles into miles
40:23 <EEVBlog> The result is: 500 miles
40:27 <K> what did i do?!?1/1/1111
40:42 <Mb> EEVBlog convert 1ev to volt
40:42 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
40:48 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 300m/s to light speed
40:48 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
40:58 <hsn> stupd
41:03 <Ampera> yes, you are :P
41:10 <hsn> :D
41:23 <Mb> EEVBlog list commands
41:23 <Ampera> >:( stop abusing my robot
41:29 <Ampera> use EEVBlog Help
41:36 <Mb> EEVBlog help
42:26 <Halcyon> You've created a monster Ampera :P
42:40 <Ampera> Halcyon, I am a monster.
42:57 <hsn> eevblog convert %x1000 g to mg
42:58 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
43:02 <hsn> eevblog convert %1000 g to mg
43:02 <Mb> EEVBLog attack !
43:03 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
43:18 <hsn> eevblog convert 1000 g to kg
43:18 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1 kg
43:30 <hsn> eevblog convert %0x1000 g to kg
43:30 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
43:59 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100.00..00 g to kg
44:13 <Ampera> EEVBlog Debug and Version
44:13 <EEVBlog> EEVBot Version 2.15, uptime: 147796 seconds.
44:15 <hsn> https://owasp.org/www-community/attacks/Format_string_attack
44:24 <Ampera> yeah if that doesn't break it nothing else will
44:53 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 100.0000. g to kg
44:55 <Ampera> you can probably get it to spit all sorts of nasty exception to console, but none of it will actually mean a whole lot, since it won't kill the bot and just ignore the exception
45:11 <hsn> continue; ?
45:18 <Ampera> so having multiple decimal points will annoy it, but not break it
45:28 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert zebra to horse
45:35 <Ampera> EEVBlog conver 100g to kg
45:39 <hsn> will if u find a bug inside the internal parse library maybe u can ..
45:40 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 100g to kg
45:40 <hsn> ?
45:40 <EEVBlog> The result is: 0.1 kg
45:43 <Ampera> there we go
45:50 <Ampera> there is no parse library
45:54 <Ampera> I wrote the parser code myself
46:06 <Ampera> it's pure java string manipulation
46:14 <hsn> thats what i ment
46:19 * Halcyon manipulates Ampera's string
46:20 <hsn> java std lib whatever
46:33 <Ampera> The only bug is it doesn't properly deal with multiple decimals, which is an easy, but uneeded fix\
46:35 <hsn> just like how c++ printf
46:55 * Ampera whistles at Halcyon, rapily
47:43 <Halcyon> I found chocolate in the fridge behind a jar
48:27 <Mb> yum yum
48:41 <Halcyon> It was a mini Picnic bar
48:58 <Ampera> I didn't know chocolate was legal in Australia
49:01 <Halcyon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_(chocolate_bar)
49:13 <Halcyon> Ampera, our laws are actually more relaxed than yours :P
49:18 <Halcyon> (Where they need to be)
49:29 <Ampera> so I can carry a swiss army knife in public?
49:37 <Halcyon> Yep, for a lawful reason
49:39 <Halcyon> We've been through this :P
49:48 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
49:52 <Ampera> My lawful reason is I want a knife you cunt
50:07 <Ampera> and if you question me I'll give you some slight cuts with my tiny, dull knife
50:44 <Halcyon> We don't let people run rampant and carry on because their "civil rights" are being infringed on
51:06 <Halcyon> Your civil right here is not to be a fuckwit
51:16 <Ampera> unless someone finds themselves having to open something
51:20 <Ampera> then they're fucked
51:33 <Ampera> Germany has laxer laws than you
51:35 <Halcyon> Or just use an implement?
51:36 <Ampera> sit down, sir
51:50 <Ampera> I wish I could, but you made it illegal for me to carry it
52:00 <Halcyon> *sigh*
52:25 <Ampera> For what it's worth, we don't let people just carry guns here either
52:31 <Halcyon> I love how you Americans fixate on the smallest detail when it comes to law... but not actually take the time to understand the whole thing or understand the application.
52:47 <Halcyon> Well... you kinda do :P
52:50 <Ampera> Becuase it'd be fucking annoying not being allowed to carry something as simple and utilitarian as a swiss army knife
52:54 <Ampera> No?
52:59 <Mb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U
53:03 <Ampera> If I carried a gun out in public I would be arrested.
53:08 <Ampera> And charged, and given a penalty.
53:09 <Halcyon> Good
53:16 <coppice> Halcyon: isn't the whole point of a swiss army knife that anything is a valid reason to have one?
53:21 <Ampera> ^
53:39 <Halcyon> coppice: So, if you stab someone with a swiss army knife... it's fine?
53:40 <Ampera> Mine has a pen, magnifying glass, toothpick, tweezers, bottle opener
53:49 <Halcyon> Or you carry one with the intention of stabbing someone?
54:00 <Ampera> Halcyon, if I wanted to stab someone what would a law saying I can't carry a knife do to stop me?
54:13 <coppice> Halcyon: as long as you open the special murder blade for the purpose, then yes I think so.
54:16 <Halcyon> The point of a law is that there is a penalty for it.
54:22 <Halcyon> If there is no law, you can't be charged for it.
54:35 <jackbrown> hello, I need the taller version of this button, how I have to search ? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000534636067.html
54:38 <Ampera> The point of a law is to deter people from doing something with a penalty
54:43 <Ampera> it's already illegal to stab someone
55:03 <Ampera> why do you need to make the knife illegal to and make it a pain in the ass for anyone who wants to use it for a normal purpose
55:07 <Mb> Oh boy, In my country there are only 2M registered pistols. 25M unregistered rifles and pistols :D
55:10 <Ampera> like having bought something at a store and needing to cut it open
55:14 <Halcyon> Why not take it one step further and prevent the threat of the stab, rather than waiting until someone is actually stabbed?
55:28 <Halcyon> Ampera: That would be a lawful reason
55:30 <coppice> the point of a law is not to create a framework for mortgages, but to pay them
55:31 <Ampera> Laws don't stop bad people, laws stop good people.
55:35 <Halcyon> Again, we have been over this, many times.
55:50 <Halcyon> The laws enable police to lock the bad people up
56:30 <Ampera> The problem is your definition of bad isn't "people who stab people" it's "people who happen to carry a utility knife in the event they may need it"
56:40 <coppice> The laws enable police to pay their mortgages
56:45 <Halcyon> If you are *actually* interested in this particular law, the wording is here: http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/soa1988189/s11c.html
57:45 <Ampera> So I am not allowed to have a dinky pocket knife just beacuse I want to have one
57:47 <Ampera> which is dumb
57:49 <Ampera> profoundly dumb
57:50 <Halcyon> Correct
57:54 <Halcyon> Because your reasoning is dumb
57:58 <Ampera> how so
58:06 <Halcyon> "Just cause" is not a reason
58:09 <Ampera> you have yet to provide one shred of genuine example or evidence why that law produces any tangible benefit
58:12 <Halcyon> It's childish
58:15 <jackbrown> hello, I need the taller version of this button, how I have to search ? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000534636067.html
58:27 <Halcyon> Well, compare our violent crime stats per capita to yours
58:30 <Ampera> Bullshit, because I want to is a reason to do anything.
58:35 <Halcyon> Knives, guns, anything you like
58:39 <Ampera> Halcyon, that's an absolutely unrelatable statistic
58:44 <Halcyon> How so?
59:01 <Mb> jackbrown, rubber tactile switch ?
59:02 <Ampera> I am focusing on this one law, you have a lot of establishing to do in order to say this /one law/ is soley responsible for your lower violent crime rate
59:15 <jackbrown> Mb: thanks
59:16 <Halcyon> It's not, this is one example of many laws and powers.
59:27 <Ampera> Who gives a shit about the other ones, this one is the one that's dumb
59:28 <Halcyon> One law doesn't change an entire nation.
59:31 <coppice> In the UK knife laws have seen a huge increase in knife crime. I think the laws make people feel more edgy when the illegally carry them, so they do it more. Many studies show that easy access to a weapon when people get angry has bad outcomes
59:43 <Halcyon> It's just like changing your gun laws alone won't so shit in the US
00:05 <Ampera> You seem intent on proving your own point by proving mine
00:28 <Halcyon> Not at all. You're trying to say that 1 law, alone, has had a significant impact on crime rates.
00:29 <Ampera> A law that prevents an innocent intending person from having a knife whose practical use is soley for utility is stupid
00:31 <Halcyon> Which is wrong.
00:36 <Ampera> NO I'M NOT
00:37 <Ampera> YOU ARE
00:42 <Halcyon> Not at all.
00:43 <Ampera> THIS LAW HAS NO EFFECT ON CRIME RATES
00:45 <Ampera> GET RID OF IT
00:46 <Ampera> IT'S DUMB
00:50 <Halcyon> Incorrect
00:55 <Ampera> ??????
01:03 <Halcyon> I've sat in court many more times than you've probably even spelt the word
01:07 Join: Octane ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:25 <Halcyon> It has an impact, just like any other law does in its own right.
01:28 <Ampera> So how many people have you sent to prison for sitting in a park and happening to have a swiss army knife
01:45 <Ampera> A law banishing sex would have an impact, that doesn't mean it's a good one.
01:48 <Halcyon> You might think a give way traffic law is stupid because it has minimal impact. But it still serves a purpose.
01:57 <Halcyon> Ampera: Zero
02:02 <Ampera> A give way traffic law has copious impact.
02:11 <Halcyon> Explain?
02:12 <Ampera> Halcyon, so then how on earth can you say this law has a beneficial effect
02:35 <Halcyon> Because "sitting on a bench with a swiss army knife" on its own isn't necessarily an offence
02:44 <Halcyon> Certainly not one a regular person would be locked up for
02:46 <Ampera> You just gave me a law stating it is.
02:58 * Ysjoelfir is done lunching
03:03 <Ampera> There is no "reason" for someone to have that knife in that park
03:10 <Halcyon> You, as a regular Joe, without a reasonable excuse would cop a fine. That's it.
03:21 <Ampera> That's dumb
03:22 <Halcyon> You as a shitbag with form for violent crimes wouldn't.
03:54 <Halcyon> Again, this is why we can walk down the street at night without fear. Nor do we have the need to carry firearms in public.
03:56 <Ampera> What's the point of a swiss army knife if you can't bring it around with you
04:11 <Ampera> Most of the people in America and Europe carry one around
04:11 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:12 <Ampera> every day
04:14 <Ampera> with no problems
04:21 Quit: Mb ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
04:26 <Ampera> It's not a gun, it's not a sword, it's not going to jump out and injure people
04:40 <Halcyon> Well, I don't know about you guys, but here, we seem to go about our daily lives just fine opening packages or boxes.
04:40 <Ampera> stabbing is already illegal, and making it more illegal doesn't prevent it, it just makes it more of a pain in the ass for everyone else
04:48 <Halcyon> Not exactly a problem that needs solving?
05:23 <Ampera> I'm sure you could go on your merry way without it, but it's a mark of sincere disrespect from a government to treat people like children too stupid to be allowed sharp implements.
05:36 <Ampera> People have knives anyways, people who want someone stabbed will do it anyways.
05:39 <Halcyon> Ampera: News flash: People ARE stupid.
05:46 <Ampera> No matter how many people you search, no matter how well you do shit, people will still have knives
05:58 <Ampera> This sort of stupid micromanagement bullshit just makes life more annoying for normal civilians.
06:01 <Halcyon> Yep, but that number is statistically low
06:10 <Halcyon> To say "oh well, fuck it" isn't the answer either
06:25 <Ampera> How do you know that? You can't get a number on people doing something you can't detect.
06:43 <Halcyon> We aren't interested in those not committing or intending to commit offences.
06:50 <Ampera> Bullshit
06:55 <Halcyon> Excuse me?
07:05 <Ampera> You said yourself you would fine an average joe for minding his business with a pocketknife in his pocket.
07:12 <Ampera> He'd have done nothing.
07:17 <Halcyon> 99% of the population go about their daily lives, without interacting with police.
07:22 <Halcyon> How does that impact them?
07:43 <Ampera> What does that have to do with anything?
07:49 <Halcyon> Ampera: See, my point... it's not just this law alone. I couldn't just walk up to a random and search them for no reason.
08:01 <Halcyon> Which is why I would never know if a normal person had one or not.
08:29 <Ampera> All it'd take was someone clipping their fingernails, presumably.
08:32 <Halcyon> Police aren't interested in you or me.
08:50 <Halcyon> Perfectly fine
08:54 <Ampera> So if I were to go to Australia, would I be allowed to bring a pocketknife with me, and carry it around.
08:56 <Halcyon> And there is case law for that.
09:10 <Halcyon> If you had a reasonable reason to do so, yes.
09:14 <Ampera> If I simply had it in my pocket, underneath my wallet, and used it for nothing but a normal purpose
09:16 <Halcyon> Again, we've been over this.
09:25 <Halcyon> Normal purpose, fine.
09:29 <Halcyon> No one is arguing "normal purpose"
09:30 <Ampera> My reason is that my knife is used for a variety of purposes, any one of which may be necessary at a given time
09:35 <Halcyon> Sure
09:37 <Halcyon> Happy days
09:51 <Ampera> You are, you said specifically someone sitting in a park, with a swiss army knife, doing nothing with it, would get a fine
09:58 <Halcyon> Again, police wouldn't be interested in you, nor would they have a reason to stop and search you
10:25 <Halcyon> IF police had reason for a search and the person couldn't give a reasonable excuse
10:30 <Ampera> The issue is I do carry a swiss army knife every single day I'm in public.
10:35 <Halcyon> The lawful search has to happen first.
10:42 <Halcyon> OK great? I don't care.
10:53 <Halcyon> Neither would any of my colleagues.
10:55 <Ampera> Well I'm planning a trip to Australia, and this has me seriously concerned
11:10 <Ampera> because it'd be my first instinct to bring it with me, but I don't know if I could, becuase you get so damn cryptic about it
11:24 <Halcyon> Your chances of being harassed at a US airport is FARRRRRR greater than being caught with it here.
11:27 <Ampera> You've gone from, totally illegal, to well sort of, to no it's fine in this one conversation
11:36 <Ampera> Not really, stick it in checked luggage, and it's fine
11:38 <Halcyon> I can't give you a law lecture in a few hours.
11:48 <Ampera> You can give me a straight answer
11:50 <Halcyon> Nor cite ever bit of possible legislation and case law.
11:53 <Halcyon> I have, many times.
11:57 <Ampera> No you haven't
12:09 <Ampera> The man in the park example would seem to suggest me having one is illegal
12:10 <Halcyon> Then you aren't paying attention. I can't help that.
12:14 <Ampera> Me asking you outright would seem not
12:23 <Ampera> You've told me before not to bring it, it's illegal
12:28 <Halcyon> Just because something is "technically" illegal, doesn't mean it's enforced.
12:29 <Ampera> You're telling me it's fine
12:39 <Halcyon> Me touching you on the shoulder is "technically" assault.
12:55 <Halcyon> How many people do you think are charged and convicted of such a thing?
12:59 <Ampera> So is it alright for me to have a swiss army knife, in public, in Australia, if I come
13:08 <Halcyon> With a reasonable excuse, yes.
13:11 <Halcyon> I have said this before.
13:20 <Ampera> You know what my excuse would be
13:24 <coppice> Halcyon: that's a very pro-Wall St point of view :)
13:34 * Ampera hugs coppice 
13:43 <Halcyon> Hey, it works. What can I say?
13:48 <Ampera> ...
13:50 <Halcyon> The proof is in the pudding.
14:11 <Ampera> Even asking you straight up I can't get a straight answer.
14:18 <Ampera> You aren't even capable of telling me yes/no
14:33 <Ampera> You know why I'd have it, you know why it'd be in my pocket, and you still can't tell me if it's alright or not
14:46 <Ampera> and make it seem like I need to have a pre-mediated intent of exactly what and when I'll be using a pocketknife
17:08 <Halcyon> OK Ampera, tell me why your laws are so great and perfect and why we should adopt them here?
17:19 <Ampera> I'm not even trying to say they are
17:29 <Ampera> Only a fool would believe their nation's laws are great, law never ever is.
17:33 <Ampera> Law is a compromise.
17:34 <Halcyon> You seem to focus on one tiny aspect of law, which won't impact you or almost everyone else.
17:41 <Ampera> It does impact me directly.
17:45 <Ampera> Becuase I do this regularly
17:49 <Ampera> and would intend to if I visited
18:04 <Halcyon> You aren't the only one who carries a knife for a lawful purpose.
18:08 <Halcyon> What you do isn't special.
18:13 <Ampera> I don't know if it's a lawful purpose because you won't tell me
18:28 <Halcyon> Again, "just because" is as good as "I have no reason"
18:46 <Halcyon> Shrugging also has the same impact
19:00 <Ampera> and as said, having no reason is a stretch, I'd use the knife if that knife were to be necessary at some point for some utility
19:05 <Ampera> that's what makes it a utility knife
19:09 <Halcyon> If you were to explain that you, open cartons because of "blah" or need it for "doing this". Then fine?
19:28 <Ampera> I do not, because I do not do that with knowledge of the situation beforehand
19:36 <Ampera> and it'd be quite possible I never use it while out, and quite possible I do
19:48 <Halcyon> You never leave the house with a specific purpose in-mind?
20:00 <Ampera> Huh?
20:01 <Halcyon> You just walk around the world aimlessly and just wait for something to happen?
20:14 <Ampera> Actually I do that from time to time
20:16 <Ampera> it's called a walk
20:26 <Ampera> which may end in entering a store, it may not
20:27 <Halcyon> And why the hell would you need a knife on your walk?
20:30 <Ampera> it may end in getting something to eat, it may not
20:54 <Ampera> I do not need a knife at all, I want one, as it's useful, for more than just being a knife
20:59 <Ampera> having a variety of functions and utilities
21:02 <Halcyon> Gah, we will never agree on this point. Nor do I expect you to. It's a law that doesn't and won't impact you.
21:13 <Ampera> You haven't proven it doesn't
21:39 <Halcyon> Ah yes, something else, over here, people trust police. I know it's a weird concept.
21:43 <Ampera> I come from a long line of bickerers :P
21:54 <Ampera> I trust police so far as I'd trust anyone else
22:02 <Halcyon> I repeat...
22:05 <Ampera> They have a purpose, intents, flaws, reasons, issues, benefits
22:15 <Halcyon> Yep, just like you
22:17 <Ampera> I don't consider them wholly bad nor good
22:21 <Ampera> just like any other person
22:26 <Halcyon> Quite
22:40 <Ampera> That being said, they have a job, and one I must be aware of
22:50 <Ampera> which includes harassing random people for carrying swiss army knives
22:51 <Halcyon> You would actually be surprised at the level of freedom we have here.
23:00 <Ampera> I'm surprised at the level of freedom you don't
23:26 <Ampera> Germany is world famous for having a rigid and stuffy culture, and they have zero problem with any of this.
23:34 <Ampera> So does most of the rest of the world
23:44 <Halcyon> I think you live a sheltered life. You're focusing on some tiny insignificant aspect.
23:58 <Ampera> I've established its significance, what more must I do
24:01 <Halcyon> We don't have a rigid and stuffy culture though?
24:18 <Ampera> Then why do you ban stupid things like casual people carrying tools
24:30 <Halcyon> I would say your culture there is far more rigid than many parts of the world.
24:52 <Ampera> Our culture is more open ended than any others. It's definitively an amalgamation of other cultures
24:52 <Ysjoelfir> thats an interesting discussion which should definitely involve two british people from both positions.
25:19 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, I'm french (canadian), we're born bickerers :P
25:19 <Halcyon> You may think it's open-ended, but then you run into other problems.
25:33 <Ampera> This isn't talking about law code
25:39 <Ampera> I don't care about your other laws, I care about this one
25:47 <Ampera> because it affects me, and that effect pisses me off
26:07 <Halcyon> It doesn't impact you
26:10 <Halcyon> In any sense of the word
26:15 <Ampera> I've just detailed how it does
26:19 <Halcyon> You are fixating on a non-issue
26:37 <Ampera> It would (maybe, maybe not, I can't get a solid answer) prevent me from carrying a swiss army knife in public there
27:16 <Ampera> which is something I do whenever I am in public. When I was going to work I did it almost every day
27:59 <Halcyon> Have you read YOUR knife laws?
28:19 <Ampera> The only knife laws I'm aware we have forbid certain concealed swords
28:31 <Ampera> and formerly used to include a ban on gravity knives that was ruled unconstitutionally vague
28:58 <Ampera> as it ended up letting cops who had the whatever to swing open a swiss army knife book people for it
29:11 <Halcyon> Apparently it's even illegal there to OWN certain knives, let alone carry them.
29:13 <Halcyon> "It is illegal to own a gravity knife, switchblade, pilum ballistic knife, cane sword, or metal knuckle knife in New York. It is legal to possess a switchblade or gravity knife, while hunting, trapping, or fishing with a valid hunting and/or fishing license."
29:36 <Ampera> Part of that law was ruled unenforceable.
29:55 <Halcyon> Penalties for Fourth Degree Criminal Possession of a Knife or Weapon
29:55 <Halcyon> Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a Class A Misdemeanor in New York. A Class A misdemeanor is punishable upon conviction by:
29:55 <Halcyon> Up to one year in jail, and/or
29:55 <Halcyon> A fine of up to $1,000
29:57 <Ampera> You cannot own a cane sword or metal knuckles, which is a small exception, as compared to literally any and all knives
30:27 <Ampera> Do you have a link for a definition of weapon?
30:44 <Halcyon> You would have to look up the law part
30:51 <Halcyon> I don't know where you go to look up legislation in the US?
30:56 <Ampera> google
31:19 <Halcyon> Well a "weapon" is broad here. I suspect it is there too.
31:25 <Halcyon> A baseball bat can be a weapon
31:31 <Halcyon> A rock can be a weapon
32:19 <coppice> as the American arny showed in Panama
32:42 <Ampera> "He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
32:42 <Ampera> imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
32:42 <Ampera> with intent to use the same unlawfully against another"
32:53 <Ampera> you see the difference is we have intent to use
32:54 <Halcyon> Yep
32:58 <Ampera> but inverse of yours
33:10 <Ampera> where you must have intent to use for benefit, we must not have intent to use for detriment
33:22 <Ampera> which must be established in a court of law
33:26 <Halcyon> Define "unlawfully"
33:41 <Ampera> using it while comitting a crime
33:58 <Halcyon> But possession IS a crime there in certain circumstances from what I can see
34:11 <Ampera> For notoriously dangerous and uncommon weapons
34:13 <Ampera> not swiss army knives
34:18 <coppice> In the UK we even have problems with things like carrying knives with the intent of cutting up dinner at a BBQ
34:22 <Halcyon> But it says "dangerous knife"
34:28 <Halcyon> What is a non-dangerous knife?
34:32 <Halcyon> Cardboard?
34:42 <Ampera> Halcyon, that law says "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another"
34:50 <K> carrot
34:53 <Ampera> meaning you can have it for any reason except for hurting someone or breaking someone's property
35:08 <Halcyon> "New York City has additional laws regarding knives, which make possession of any knife with a blade longer than four inches illegal, with exceptions for certain “lawful purposes.” Possession of an illegal knife under Section 10-133 of the city code may result in up to 15 days in jail and a fine of up to $300. Police have the discretion to file either state or local charges related to illegal possession of a knife."
35:10 <Ampera> in Australia, you can't have it at all unless you have a premeditated, sanctioned reason
35:23 <Ampera> yeah well that's NYC, they get antsy about any of that
35:33 <Ampera> and is still more lenient than your law
35:37 <Ampera> which means any knife or blade
35:45 <Halcyon> See, this is the problem. We don't have a millionty different laws depending on where you happen to be
35:48 <K> can you have it in your toolbox?
35:51 <Halcyon> We have state laws and commonwealth laws.
35:53 <Halcyon> That's it.
36:01 <Halcyon> K: Yes, yes you can.
36:08 <Halcyon> Because that is a lawful excuse.
36:15 <K> ah.
36:20 <Ampera> you can carry a full on sword where I live
36:32 <Halcyon> Chefs, for example can carry knives, for obvious reasons.
36:32 <Ampera> open and on your back if you like
36:54 <Ampera> As sharp as you can make it if you wish
36:55 <Halcyon> You can go and have a picnic if you like and bring knives (or a BBQ)
37:21 <Ampera> but if you happen to be on a walk, and want to cut open the packaging of something you bought at a store, tough shit
37:41 <coppice> premeditated? 1st degree BBQ slicing?
37:47 <Halcyon> How fucking retarded is your packaging that you can't just open it?
38:02 <Ampera> You ever deal with blister packaging?
38:08 <Halcyon> I have a stanley knife which I might use.... 5 times a year?
38:16 <hsn> the whaaaat ??
38:18 <Ampera> Good for you
38:20 <Halcyon> Yes, it's rarely too difficult to get open
38:23 <Ampera> I use my knife every week or so
38:29 <Halcyon> Cool
38:31 <Ampera> as it's more than just a knife
38:33 <Halcyon> I don't care?
38:44 <Halcyon> Neither do other police here?
38:45 <Ampera> then why did you talk about your knife and how often you use it
38:47 <Halcyon> Or the courts
39:05 <Ampera> Which makes no sense, because you're spending all this time establishing they do
39:15 <Halcyon> You brought it up
39:17 <hsn> can i join the fight ?
39:22 <Halcyon> hsn: By all means
39:32 <Halcyon> I'm done, just covering old ground anyway
39:33 <Ampera> If you wish to say, you can just carry a small pocket knife, and nobody will bother you, it's under the radar here, that'd be enough for me
39:53 <Ampera> Because no matter how many times we've bickered, I have no clue if it's alright or not
39:54 <Halcyon> Being "worried" of our knife laws here is like being afraid of the bogey man, or santa.
40:14 <Ampera> Because I don't live there, and do not want to be arrested in a place where laws are drastically different to my own
40:15 <hsn> hahaah u guys should go to yemen
40:20 <Ampera> simply because I do not understand them
40:27 <Halcyon> I am telling you it's fine
40:33 <Halcyon> Worst case, I have a badge.
40:39 <Ampera> So I can carry around a swiss army knife, and it's fine
40:42 <hsn> ur weopen (usually knife) === ur dignity ..
40:51 <hsn> man holding no knife = no man
40:51 <hsn> :D
41:00 <Ampera> hsn, a lot like some states here
41:01 <Ampera> which is cool
41:04 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
41:08 <Halcyon> Let's just say the stars aligned and for some reason, you were targeted. First, I would buy a lottery ticket, second, I would badge up for you.
41:16 <Ampera> cool enough
41:16 <hsn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janbiya
41:39 <Halcyon> hsn: I have a penis, that'll do me.
41:48 <Halcyon> I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
41:56 <hsn> Halcyon, is it sharp enough
41:59 <Ampera> hsn, it's always nice to see a culture that enjoys knives
42:01 <Halcyon> Not particularly
42:06 <coppice> how can you do yourself?
42:20 <Ampera> coppice, ain't no cock like horse cock
42:22 <hsn> A jambia is a short dagger worn by men in Yemen. The handle of a janbiya tells the status of the man who wears it.
42:31 <hsn> does ur penis tells ur status Halcyon
42:32 <Halcyon> Ampera, I have a colleague who makes and sells Japanese style knives.
42:48 <Halcyon> hsn: No, it makes me a man (in my mind)
43:18 <Ysjoelfir> Ok my friends, simple question: Would I be allowed to carry these knifes (which I carry every day) around with me, in my pocket or (in case of the fixed blade one) in a leather sheath on my belt, without an intention to use them for harmful things? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IaZYO1-5L010mONioIKQKSdaYGawUKbR/view?usp=sharing and https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Opinel-bread-01.jpg/1920px-Opinel-bread-01.jpg
43:20 <K> what about sikhs? don't they carry a cerimonail knife with them all the time?
43:32 <K> is that still a lawful excuse?
43:34 <Halcyon> Ysjoelfir: Yep
43:54 <Halcyon> K: Genuine religious reasons are a lawful reason.
43:56 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, in NY, yes, you can intend whatever you want
44:04 <Ampera> so long as you don't act upon or display it
44:13 <Ampera> nobody can determine what's in your mind unless you show it
44:34 <hsn> K, no
44:36 <Halcyon> Also, that looks like really delicious bread
44:40 <Ysjoelfir> would I be FORCED to have a purpose for carrying those knives around with me?
44:44 <Ampera> Halcyon, I bought gentleman's relish
44:47 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, .. wtf the grip is too bold ?
44:53 <Ysjoelfir> it does indeed :D
44:54 <Halcyon> WTF is gentleman's relish?
44:54 <hsn> how do u keep it in pocket
45:05 <Halcyon> Actually... dare I ask?
45:06 <Ampera> don't you know?
45:18 <Ampera> they say it's good on toast
45:21 <Ysjoelfir> hsn - for the fixed one? its actually very nice and fits the hand very well^^
45:45 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, fits hand .. but to ur pocket .. it makes it like big pocket ?
45:50 <Ampera> Halcyon, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008FR95KQ
45:50 <Halcyon> Oh Anchovy paste
46:03 <Halcyon> Probably has a stronger flavour to the other "gentleman's relish"
46:07 <K> yuck
46:23 <Ampera> Halcyon, I would prefer putting some of the other kind in my mouth
46:30 <Ysjoelfir> hsn - the fixed one would be in a sheath that is hanging on your belt. https://i.etsystatic.com/17816209/d/il/a922f2/1861982548/il_340x270.1861982548_tp9o.jpg?version=0
46:30 <Ampera> but unfortunately they don't sell those in small pots for spreading on toast
46:34 <Ampera> unless they do, then that'd be pretty neat
46:37 <Halcyon> That is a discussion for private
46:47 <Ampera> don't you mean about privates?
46:48 <Halcyon> I do not want to subject these innocent people to that :P
46:51 <Halcyon> Yes
46:52 <Halcyon> :P
46:56 <Ampera> penis
47:05 <Halcyon> Cock'n'balls, yes.
47:05 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, u carry this daily ? :D
47:12 <Ampera> eevblog convert 12 inches to feet
47:13 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1 feet
47:21 <Ysjoelfir> yes. one of those I have always* with me
47:26 <Ysjoelfir> sometmes both
47:33 * Ampera hugs Ysjoelfir 
47:36 <Ampera> you ok dood
47:36 <Halcyon> Oh, speaking of units, it's going to be soooo nice and warm over the next few days.
47:37 <Ysjoelfir> * sometimes I forget
47:52 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 54F to c
47:52 <EEVBlog> The result is: 12.222 c
47:56 <Ampera> that's the temperature here
48:05 <Ysjoelfir> its going to be summer down there, right, Halcyon?
48:11 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert 25C to F
48:11 <EEVBlog> The result is: 77 f
48:19 <Ampera> too hot
48:19 <Halcyon> Tomorrow in Sydney on the coast
48:28 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 24h to days
48:28 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
48:29 <Ampera> tone it down like 40 degrees
48:32 <hsn> noob
48:32 <Halcyon> 29 in the suburbs
48:48 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 60 minute to hour
48:48 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
48:51 Part: ibiza ([email protected]) from #EEVblog
48:52 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 60 minutes to hour
48:52 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
48:53 <Ampera> it doesn't do time
49:04 <hsn> eevblog time and convert to gmt+3
49:17 <Halcyon> EEVblog convert trump to smart_people
49:17 * Ampera smacks hsn around with some mackerels
49:26 <Ampera> I'm voting for Trump
49:35 <Halcyon> I watched your "debate" yesterday
49:39 <Ampera> I didn't
49:40 <Halcyon> They are both fucking retarded
49:43 <Ampera> they are
50:00 <Halcyon> Ima scared
50:02 <Ampera> I should watch the VOD if it's available
50:04 <Ampera> good
50:06 <Ampera> be scared
50:08 <Halcyon> VOD ?
50:10 <Ampera> because orange man gonna nuke your ass
50:12 <Ampera> video on demand
50:31 <Halcyon> He wouldn't nuke us, we have too much of your military infrastructure and personnel here
50:40 <Ampera> I'm excited, my president will kill all the people who aren't straight, while, and male
50:41 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
50:42 <Ampera> so fucking happy
50:52 <Ampera> oh well, what's some friendly fire
50:56 <Ampera> they're probably queers anyways
50:59 <Ampera> especially the navy
51:00 <Ampera> FUCK the navy
51:11 <Halcyon> :P
51:29 <Halcyon> You say that, but wasn't in the navy that got the Engima?
51:38 <Ampera> huh?
51:43 <Halcyon> From the Germans
51:50 <Ampera> yeah but that's the german navy
51:52 <Ampera> they cool
51:53 <Ysjoelfir> We never lost that! 0:-)
51:55 <hsn> i suspect trump made a deal to make "isreal arab deal to be long .. 1 country per week" to make the news long period
51:55 <hsn> :D
52:00 <Halcyon> No, the US stole it from the Germans
52:07 <Halcyon> Or was it the Brits?
52:24 <Ampera> the brits are cool, they understand how to run a shitshow
52:34 <Halcyon> Well yeh, look at Brexit
52:38 <Ampera> brexit is cool
52:40 <Ampera> fuck the EU
52:42 <Halcyon> And whoever the hell Megan is
52:48 <Halcyon> What does she do?
52:48 <Ampera> shut up, meg
52:55 <hsn> https://youtu.be/KG4n-tuoVRI Ferrofluid and Magnet Fun
52:59 <Halcyon> Is she a Kardashian?
53:03 <Ampera> a what
53:08 <Halcyon> Exactly
53:16 <Ampera> you and your gay media
53:24 <Ampera> this is why god cries
53:31 <hsn> the what ?
53:34 <Ampera> the penis
53:35 <Halcyon> God doesn't exist, joke's on you :P
53:44 <Ampera> of course god exists
53:46 <Ampera> I am god
53:49 <hsn> Halcyon, u will be a frog soon
53:58 <Halcyon> Frogs are cute
54:01 <hsn> :D
54:10 <Ampera> frogs are gay
54:14 <Ampera> they keep putting chemicals in the water
54:17 <Ampera> fucking chemtrails
54:21 <Ampera> lizard glowies
54:22 <Ampera> fuckers
54:24 <Halcyon> I thought that was 5G ?
54:38 <Ampera> 5G is cool, not huawei 5G
54:46 <Ampera> that's where you start growing three cocks, and none of them good ones
54:51 <Halcyon> Huawei 5G causes Corona
55:03 <hsn> whats wrong with huawei 5g?
55:04 <Ampera> no, the queers cause corona
55:06 <Ampera> like they caused cancer
55:12 <Halcyon> I think we use Ericsson 5G ?
55:20 <Ampera> we use FttP
55:30 <Halcyon> In your street
55:35 <Halcyon> What about the rest of the country?
55:40 <Ampera> FttP
55:43 <Halcyon> Lies
55:47 <Ampera> all of our infrastructure is FttP
55:53 <Ampera> because we are cool kids
55:56 <Halcyon> You have worse internet than our fixed wireless in parts
55:56 <Ampera> and you are drool kids
56:11 <Ampera> well you wouldn't need fixed wireless if you didn't break it
56:12 <Halcyon> And that's saying something
56:15 <hsn> Ampera, Feet tits Porn ?
56:20 <Ampera> ew feet
56:23 <Ampera> yes tits
56:25 <Ampera> porn is a sin
56:32 <Halcyon> !
56:35 <Halcyon> Take that back :P
56:39 <Ampera> yes tits
56:45 <Halcyon> How else will those housewives get paid?
56:45 <hsn> ok i go work cya
56:52 <Ampera> ciao
56:54 <Ampera> porn is a sin
56:55 <Ampera> it is evil
56:56 <Halcyon> Cya hsn
56:59 <Ampera> get rid of it
57:04 <Ampera> make it illegal
57:44 <Ampera> make them pay
57:45 <Ampera> for the wall
57:48 <Halcyon> American porn might as well be illegal. It's as bad as your soap operas... or Ellen...
57:50 <Ampera> and for the maine
57:55 <Ampera> remember the maine, to hell with spain
58:09 <Ampera> american porn is shooting people in the penis
58:12 <Ampera> is 10/10
58:16 <Ampera> best snuff
58:18 <Halcyon> Speaking of Ellen, she really does fit the "angry lesbian" stereotype
58:29 <Ampera> I know how much you hate lesbians
58:35 <Ampera> and women in general
58:35 <Halcyon> I don't ?
58:39 <Ampera> ???
58:46 <Ampera> don't all gays hate women
58:49 <Halcyon> One of my best workers is a lesbian
58:56 <Ampera> ah, so you enslave lesbians
58:57 <Ampera> got it
59:06 <Ysjoelfir> XD
59:07 <Halcyon> Out-rank/enslave... sure
59:09 <Halcyon> Either way
59:48 <Ampera> les bi an annoying cunt today
00:06 <Halcyon> Meh, it's my bedtime
00:11 <Ampera> it's my work time
00:15 <Ampera> good night, and good morning
00:15 <Halcyon> "work"
00:17 <Ampera> hello goodbye
00:20 <Ampera> beatle your meatle
00:28 <NeroTHz> phew just had to move offices
00:38 <Ampera> NeroTHz, you missed nothing but shitposting
00:41 <Halcyon> NeroTHz: Did you find anything cool?
00:44 <NeroTHz> nope
00:47 <Halcyon> Dammnit
05:05 <Ysjoelfir> when we move we will most probably find tons of tampons
05:18 <Halcyon> What the?
05:40 <Ampera> Oh I hate when that happens
05:50 <Ysjoelfir> SWMBO once had them stored in a big jar and the cats tipped that over when we were not home. we entered and found a shitton of tampons EVERYWHERE
06:05 <Halcyon> Stupid cats
06:17 <Ampera> stupid Halcyon
06:19 <Ysjoelfir> I'm sure there are still tons of those under several pieces of furniture, as the jar was only half full when I have picked up all I could see
06:29 * Ampera hugs Halcyon with vitriol and ire
06:45 <Halcyon> EEVBlog convert 1 imperial-shit-ton metric-shit-ton
06:57 <Halcyon> Love you too Ampera
07:12 <Ampera> eevblog convert 1 ton to metricton
07:12 <EEVBlog> The result is: 0.907 metricton
07:40 <Halcyon> You missed the joke :P
07:41 <Halcyon> Nevermind
07:50 <Ampera> eevblog convert 1 ton to mt 4ndie83bdorurbrgeus
07:50 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
07:55 <Ampera> nice
08:10 <Halcyon> That's racist Ampera
08:26 <Ampera> fuck the blue people
08:35 <Halcyon> Anyway, I am beyond tired. Goodnight all.
08:42 <Ampera> niGht
29:43 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Dang, about 35min of raw footage. #WaffleMaster https://t.co/El8uW7Zkmh
33:53 <Ampera> I almost thought he said raw sewage
35:27 <coppice> Ampera: I guess you;ve seen his work before
35:38 <Ampera> whose work
35:46 <Ampera> EEVBlog?
35:50 <Ampera> no I don't watch his videos
35:52 <Ampera> never seen one
36:05 <coppice> It was supposed to be a mock insult of Dave's work
36:11 <Ysjoelfir> who is this EEVBlog anyways?
36:18 <Ampera> EEVBlog is a bot I made
36:22 <Ampera> EEVBlog About
36:23 <EEVBlog> EEVBot, programmed by Ampera. Version 2.15
36:35 <Ysjoelfir> oh, and it does videos, too? cool!
36:45 <Ampera> EEVBlog, kill yourself
36:47 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Connection closed
36:59 <Ysjoelfir> there were 2 seconds delay!
38:36 <hsn> EEVBlog revive
38:45 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
38:48 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Changing hosts
38:48 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
38:50 <hsn> good
38:57 <Ampera> EEVBlog About
38:58 <EEVBlog> EEVBot, programmed by Ampera. Version 2.2
39:12 <Ysjoelfir> uh, it got updated
39:21 <hsn> Ysjoelfir both kills and revive are commands
39:34 <hsn> EEVBlog help
40:06 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.0.1 kg to kg
40:10 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.0 kg to kg
40:11 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1 kg
40:17 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.1 kg to kg
40:17 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1.1 kg
40:26 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.4999999 kg to kg
40:26 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1.5 kg
40:34 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.499 kg to kg
40:34 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1.499 kg
40:37 <Ysjoelfir> :D
40:37 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1.4999 kg to kg
40:37 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1.5 kg
40:43 <Ysjoelfir> what
40:47 <Ysjoelfir> only 3 digits accuracy?
40:51 <Ysjoelfir> I'm disappointed :P
40:53 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 1kg to kilogrammes
40:53 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1 kilogrammes
41:00 <hsn> its not good for scientific research
41:06 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 1.2824367823592 kg to kg
41:07 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1.282 kg
41:11 <hsn> i can tell where is the problem ..
41:13 <Ampera> huh
41:26 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 0.999 kg to mg
41:26 <EEVBlog> The result is: 999,000 mg
41:28 <hsn> lol
41:44 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 0.9999 kg to mg
41:45 <EEVBlog> The result is: 999,900 mg
41:48 <hsn> wtf
42:01 <hsn> oh just the display
42:20 <hsn> so conversion has better digits
42:28 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 0.9999999999 kg to mg
42:28 <EEVBlog> The result is: 1,000,000 mg
42:34 <Ampera> It's meant to be convenient, not accurate
43:14 <hsn> EEVBlog convert 1+e10 kg to kg
43:14 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
43:47 <Ampera> No scientific notation
43:51 <hsn> eevblog news
44:06 <hsn> eevblog what was the last update about
44:15 <hsn> eevblog buildlog
44:16 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog convert 6543130436513658403510306438640451036543841864863403438694394786541313089048340313416890746548390374863048364714438067430110210874343654183687043083744151004403486463453106358479847.12631872641298469875649756349175634187563149634958618345761348756194856913456347156319486 mton to mg
44:16 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
44:23 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBlog convert 6543130436513658403510306438640451036543841864863403438694394786541313089048340313416890746548390374863048364714438067430110210874343654183687043083744151004403486463453106358479847.12631872641298469875649756349175634187563149634958618345761348756194856913456347156319486 t to mg
44:24 <EEVBlog> The result is: 5,935,927,932,005,191,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 mg
44:33 <Ysjoelfir> thats not right
44:54 <Ampera> Doubles only have so much accuracy, some of which is lost in the conversion
45:02 <Ampera> what they do have is the ability to express numbers of digits
45:09 <Ampera> so you can have big numbers, just not accurate ones
45:22 <hsn> ok
45:25 <Ysjoelfir> pffff.. double.... we want float! XD
45:55 <hsn> what is dbl_max ?
46:01 <Ampera> double is larger than float
46:11 <Ampera> though it looks like Java has an arbitrary precision float number
46:23 <NeroTHz> isn´t a double a float with twice as much significant digits than standard float?
46:28 <Ampera> ^
46:30 <hsn> eevblog convert 9223372036854775808mg to mg
46:30 <EEVBlog> The result is: 9,223,372,036,854,776,000 mg
46:38 <Ampera> let me try to implement that number
46:49 <NeroTHz> EEVBlog, convert 9e10 mg to t
47:03 <NeroTHz> EEVBlog convert 9e10 mg to t
47:03 <EEVBlog> I wasn't able to parse that correctly, please see EEVBlog Help for more details
47:05 <hsn> 2^48 ?
47:16 <hsn> 2^64 ?
47:33 <hsn> eevblog convert 18446744073709551616 mg to mg
47:34 <EEVBlog> The result is: 18,446,744,073,709,552,000 mg
48:42 <hsn> eevblog convert 18446744073.709551616 t to mg
48:42 <EEVBlog> The result is: 16,734,886,223,669,305,000 mg
49:25 <hsn> eevblog convert 18450 t to mg
49:25 <EEVBlog> The result is: 16,737,840,000,000 mg
49:29 <hsn> hah
49:48 <hsn> now convinient is that
49:50 <hsn> :D
49:52 <Ysjoelfir> pff, what do I know about kinds of data and their size :D
50:05 <coppice> eevblog convert 1kg to Catholic
50:06 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
50:24 <hsn> eevblog convert 1kg weed to meth
50:24 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
50:45 <coppice> eevblog: convert male to female
51:00 <hsn> how many pins coppice
51:06 <T3sl4> EEVBlog convert 4.84MJ to eV
51:06 <EEVBlog> I can't seem to convert between those two units.
51:13 <T3sl4> pfft, useless
51:23 * T3sl4 slaps Ampera 
51:38 <coppice> hsn: that's transphobic
52:14 <hsn> how so ?
52:47 <coppice> hsn: these days it seems everything is supposed to be transphobic
53:39 <hsn> ah ok im fine then
54:47 <Ysjoelfir> bwahahaha!
55:38 <Ysjoelfir> my workmate, who is sitting basically behind me, was on the phone. I heard just: "WHAT!?..... What do you mean with lost?..... But how did it get there? ...."
56:08 <hsn> a what?
56:43 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, he is seeing ur chat
56:45 <hsn> now
56:48 <hsn> behind u
56:54 <hsn> laughing at him
57:28 <Ysjoelfir> turns out, the prototype of a very expensive new product we developed, that was supposed to be calibrated, got shipped not back to us after calibration but instead went to the airport of athens. what was planned to be delivered there was some glassware of carl zeiss, which is probably arriving at our factory soon xD
57:38 <Ysjoelfir> nah, he can't. its to small
09:21 * electrohead awakens with a slight hangover
09:29 <Ampera> good morning electrohead
11:40 <Ampera> so, I'm adding more precision
11:41 <Ampera> but
11:48 <Ampera> return (value - 32) * 5/9 + 273.15;
11:49 <Ampera> turns into
11:54 <Ampera> return value.subtract(new BigDecimal(32)).multiply(new BigDecimal(5).divide(new BigDecimal(9))).add(new BigDecimal(273.15));
12:08 <Ysjoelfir> argh :D don't do that, its fine xD
12:18 <Ampera> fuck you, you can't tell me what to do
12:20 <Ampera> I've almost already done it
12:39 <Ysjoelfir> pff :P I'm just caring for your sanity
12:59 <electrohead> good morning
13:24 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, stop caring for things that don't exist
13:46 <Ysjoelfir> ok
14:58 <electrohead> I told my girlfriend that I was determined to drink quite a bit last night, and pretty sure that goal was achieved and surpassed lol
16:10 <electrohead> haven't drank that much in some time, so I'm good for a while, now
17:28 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Connection closed
17:51 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:53 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Changing hosts
17:53 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:05 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 20.02kg to mg
18:05 <EEVBlog> The result is: 20,020,000 mg
18:27 * electrohead hugs everyone and kicks the bot
18:33 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 2.362358273589235 t to mg
18:33 <EEVBlog> The result is: 2,143,131,425.8 mg
18:41 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 2.362358273589235 mg to t
18:41 <EEVBlog> The result is: 0 t
18:52 <Ampera> buh
19:08 <Ampera> EEVBlog convert 25.34678934634678934F to C
19:31 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Connection closed
19:41 <Ampera> java.lang.ArithmeticException: Non-terminating decimal expansion; no exact representable decimal result.
19:47 <Ampera> alright fuck this
19:52 <Ampera> back to doubles like a sensible person
20:14 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:16 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Changing hosts
20:16 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:07 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:33 * Ampera kisses Nothing\ 
28:43 <Nothing\> oh hey buddy
28:47 <Ampera> how do
28:54 <Nothing\> that was confusing i was like "how does he know i just got up?"
29:06 <Nothing\> but i guess when my computer comes out of sleep mode, it reconnects on here
29:08 <Nothing\> either way
29:11 * Nothing\ hugs Ampera 
29:17 <Nothing\> i'm doing well buddy, how bout you?
29:35 <Ampera> Alright, my dad is home and doing alright
29:44 <Ampera> resting for the day, taking it off
29:56 <Nothing\> though i've gotta help my brother move today and it could potentially just be me, my brother who will inevitably be drugged out on sedatives and my elderly mom
30:05 <Nothing\> i'll trade you
30:40 <Nothing\> my dad said he'd help, but he hasn't pulled through on anything he's told my brother and i since well before i was married
30:47 <Nothing\> so i'm not holding my breath
31:12 <Ampera> sounds fun
31:13 <Nothing\> plus he's an alcoholic, but supposedly he's dry at the moment
31:26 <Nothing\> so we've got 3 addicts and an old lady trying to move my brother lol
31:37 <Nothing\> 3 addicts who will no doubt be messed up on their drugs of choice
32:09 <Nothing\> cuz let's face it. with me anyways, that's the only way i'm leaving the house
32:26 <Nothing\> and judging from what i've seen of him, my brother's the same way
32:53 <Nothing\> but the thing is, he takes way more than i do
33:50 <Nothing\> like to the point where he talks so slowly and carefully, yet he still slurs his words and has what i like to call "goldfish memory" where he literally can't remember anything that happened more than 30-60 seconds ago and he starts asking you the same thing over and over again cuz he forgets he already asked you
34:09 <Ampera> sounds like the three inebriated stooges
34:12 <Nothing\> i used to be that bad, hell i won't cast stones. i've been worse for more than one of my moves
34:16 <Nothing\> haha yeah
34:24 <Nothing\> except we've all worked in the furniture business
34:34 <Ampera> well at least you got something
35:01 <Nothing\> my dad ran a furniture store and did tons of deliveries with my brother, which permanently fucked my brother's back when my dad made him move a king sized mattress on his own
35:09 <Nothing\> up to the customer's 2nd floor
35:21 <Nothing\> his back's never been the same since
35:56 <Nothing\> i just had the pleasure of unloading transport trucks full of furniture for $6000 a year which i was made to sign over to my dad cuz if you made $6000 or less you don't pay taxes
36:02 <Nothing\> so it was $6000 tax free he got
36:21 <Nothing\> instead he called me things like a nigger lol
36:54 <Nothing\> that's one of the few memories i have is struggling with a box, i think it was a glider rocker or something and my dad's just like "come on you little nigger" in a half joking way
37:14 <K> hrm
37:16 <Nothing\> but once i stopped being cute, i was basically just a tax break and free labour to him
37:38 <Ampera> That doesn't sound fucked up at all.
37:39 <Nothing\> if i were smart i'd sue him but i'm pretty sure the statute of limitations has come into effect
37:52 <Nothing\> Ampera, my upbringing was... unconventional
38:06 <Nothing\> i remember when i told him about my first real gf when i was 15
38:23 <Ampera> hsn, T3sl4, Ysjoelfir, K, and whoever else, what sort of unit conversions would you guys like to see in the bot
38:27 <Ampera> I'm adding a few more
38:28 <Nothing\> he told me to tell her that cum makes a good moisturizer so i could get her to jerk me off
38:33 <K> angstrems?
38:55 <Ampera> angstroms?
38:55 <Nothing\> or he once invited my 14 year old female friend to go skinny dipping with him in our hot tub
39:00 <Nothing\> angstrom, yes
39:01 <K> yes, those
39:04 <Ampera> why
39:08 <Nothing\> the diameter of a hydrogen atom
39:15 <K> comes up sometimes
39:23 <K> to put things in perspective
39:38 <Nothing\> yeah it's a huge number
39:42 <Nothing\> but nothing'll beat parsecs
39:44 <coppice> angstroms might have got further if they didn't require a weird character to represent them
39:52 <Nothing\> you know, han solo beat the kessel run in under 12 parsecs
39:53 <K> also time to lightspeed distance
40:10 <Nothing\> it makes his 9 lightyear run look like nothing
40:15 <Ampera> Å
40:22 <K> Ā
40:49 <Nothing\> i've got it
40:58 <Nothing\> i've invented a new unit called the light year
41:05 <coppice> Å is just an A with an attachment point, so you can hang it up
41:12 <Nothing\> it's the amount of time a beam of light would travel around earth's average orbit
41:35 <Nothing\> coppice, it's for hanging it in the cloakroom
41:38 <Nothing\> or mudroom
41:39 <K> bud light year
41:45 <Nothing\> or whatever it was called in your area
41:48 <K> might be a unit for volume
42:03 <Nothing\> you know, in grade school, that room you came into from outside to change out of your outside clothes
42:33 <Nothing\> and on the days when they had penis inspection day they'd line us all up in there to do it
42:49 <Nothing\> man i hate penis inspection day
42:55 <Nothing\> *hated
43:39 <Nothing\> actually i shouldn't joke about that. there are residential schools where shit like that actually happens.
43:43 <coppice> penis inspection day sounds like something the priests in a Catholic school would enjoy
44:05 <Nothing\> they did it to the native americans here in canada under the guise of converting them to the western style of living up until the 90's
44:36 <K> inspecting penises for what?
44:37 <Nothing\> kept them in these so-called residential schools where they were kept separate from their family and forcibly indoctrinated into canadian society and christianity
44:43 <coppice> yeah, because a western style of living is heavily based on penis inspections. we all know that
44:43 <K> or did i miss something
44:45 <Nothing\> while also being physically and sexually abused
45:02 <Nothing\> coppice, well i just meant the sexual abuse in general
45:18 <Nothing\> it's really sad if you read into it
45:27 <K> ir is sad even if you don't
45:29 <Nothing\> not to mention, it's hard to believe canada would do something like that
45:52 <Nothing\> canada's like the world's Ned Flanders
45:53 <coppice> sexual abuse isn't western. wherever children are raised by people who are not their biological parents, sexual abuse is rampant
46:11 <Nothing\> coppice, no i know i'm not saying it was part of the indoctrination
46:24 <Nothing\> i'm saying it was incidental to having a bunch of children under the care of sick fucks
46:49 <Nothing\> or i guess they're just average people
46:56 <Nothing\> i refer you to the stanford prison experiment
47:39 <Nothing\> i mean that was more verbal and physical, but it's not a far stretch to assume it could become sexual at some point or if it were unsupervised
47:54 <Nothing\> ie abu grahib
48:04 <coppice> whoever they are under the care of, if they are not biological parents the figures for abuse are horrifying. Its the reason communist groups keep trying to normalise paedophilia. they know the stats, and you can't push breaking down biological family life unless you make those stats acceptable
48:28 <Ampera> angstrom implemented
48:29 <Ampera> what next
48:38 <Ampera> I more mean types of units
48:41 <Nothing\> coppice, that's fucked up to consider
48:45 <Ampera> besides just length, volume, weight, temperature
48:56 <Nothing\> also i didn't know about the communist groups normalizing paedophilia
48:58 <K> time to lightspeed distance
49:16 <Ampera> I have time and power
49:32 <Nothing\> of course, i don't follow that sort of thing much cuz frankly, it makes me physically ill to think about.
49:43 <K> the whole dB zoo is there too
49:59 <Nothing\> i read a story once about a 15 year old girl in the UK who ran away from home and got roped into the sex trafficking business
50:21 <Nothing\> i couldn't even finish reading it, i was shaking so bad and so physically ill from reading the details
50:43 <Nothing\> but at the same time, it made the term "sex slave" more than a word
50:52 <Nothing\> now when i hear it, i think of people like her
51:00 <coppice> Nothing\: there is a steady stream of attempts, where people are testing the waters. They are so wedded to the Marxism idea that you can't stop families getting more powerful while parents are doing the best they can for their offspring, they will promote any crazy ideas
51:23 <Nothing\> how is sexual abuse the best?
51:29 <Nothing\> also, i can understand that now
51:59 <Nothing\> i remember hearing once that in China, the norm was that if somebody else can take better care of your child, you give your child to them if possible.
52:40 <Nothing\> this particular source was a documentary on the state run gymnastics schools they had for children where the training is borderline abusive
53:00 <Nothing\> but at the same time it gives the child an opportunity most people in China could never dream of
53:09 <coppice> Nothing\: not really, although in China and Japan powerful families adopting smart youngsters, to have a capable heir, is a thing
53:33 <Nothing\> huh, wouldn't imagine many similarities between china and japan
53:48 <Nothing\> frankly i'm ignorant of most of their ways
53:52 <Nothing\> especially the chinese
53:58 <coppice> Adopting a child as an adult seems pretty odd to westerners
54:14 <Nothing\> oh i can see that in china with their former 1 child per family rule
54:26 <coppice> its an ancient practice
54:36 <Nothing\> plus chinese families tend to be much lorger
54:37 <Nothing\> larger
54:54 <Nothing\> i can't speak for the chinese, but i know with the japanese they care for the elderly for life
55:20 <Nothing\> there's no shipping them off to an old folks home that costs $4,000 a month for a little room and all other services are extra
55:34 <Nothing\> which is how it was with my grandparents when my grandfather started getting dementia
56:08 <Nothing\> it wasn't a even a full care facility. basically just an apartment style room they rented in a facility with nurses and stuff to help them out with day to day life
56:41 <Nothing\> yet they still wanted us to pay extra for things like having them roll my grandmother into the dining hall for chow
56:54 <Nothing\> or helping her in and out of her wheelchair
57:10 <Nothing\> basically anything they could gouge them on
58:37 <coppice> They don't allow that here. You pay by who poor the health of the person is, because some people need a lot more care. That is assessed, and they fees set at intervals, though
58:44 <coppice> how poor
59:58 <Ysjoelfir> What have I missed? someone mentioned me? :D
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