// #eevblog — 2020-02-01
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00:02:21 <Halcyon> Anyway, I'm going to bed. Night all.
00:04:38 <T3sl4> o/
00:05:02 * steve30 snuggles up on T3sl4's lap
00:05:22 <Lemon> hey peeps, what kind of cables are you using with your lab psus ? banana to croc ? those C clamps to croc ? any brand I should know ?
00:05:23 * T3sl4 scritches steve30
00:05:46 <T3sl4> Lemon: i currently have some 22AWG twist tied to my binding posts :P
00:05:50 <steve30> i normally make up my own leads
00:05:56 <T3sl4> tinned ends, poked into a breadboard
00:06:08 <Lemon> hmm interesting !
00:06:30 <Lemon> I want some banana to crocodile, but with a female on the banana part to connect another banana to my dmm
00:06:33 <T3sl4> i have a couple banana jacks around here, if i had a larger more fully featured lab space as such, i'd use more
00:07:18 <T3sl4> bananas are often 3 way, with a cross hole as well as a socket on the back end
00:07:38 <T3sl4> the pomona ones anyway, but i'm sure you can find cheaper brands with the same style
00:07:50 <steve30> I like the homosexual style banana plugs
00:07:55 <Lemon> pomona, thats what I was looking for
00:07:59 <T3sl4> heh, do watch out for copper clad aluminum or steel wire if you're shopping ali/ebay :P
00:08:21 <T3sl4> steve30: banana male to male? that's rather special purpose :P
00:09:40 <steve30> i need coffee
00:10:05 <Lemon> I dont really like the cheapos I got with my cheapo psu
00:10:20 <Lemon> those croco with silicone that slips
00:15:36 <steve30> I use some test leads that I bought from Franky Tong
00:15:44 <steve30> they're good
00:18:35 <T3sl4> steve30 irl https://www.reddit.com/r/wholesomegifs/comments/ewfp9d/heater_patrol/
00:19:19 <steve30> aww :)
01:46:24 <Ysjoelfir> my back is aching soooo much....
01:51:22 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
01:56:30 * steve30 paws at Ysjoelfir's back
02:01:35 <Ysjoelfir> harder!
02:01:38 <Ysjoelfir> *_*
02:13:38 * steve30 paws at Ysjoelfir's back some more
02:14:21 <Ysjoelfir> thanks.
02:14:25 * Ysjoelfir pets steve30
02:16:52 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhUAaGds2_w that song is very OK AF :D
02:22:28 <steve30> My hip is hurting despite having had naproxen and co-codamol
02:22:40 <Ysjoelfir> meh :( thats bad...
02:22:55 <Ysjoelfir> oh. I remember... Yesterday I ate a carrot that looked like the lump :D
02:23:25 <steve30> hehe
02:24:14 <Ysjoelfir> look^^ https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DfO-FFG3xkcnXzCXlxnOvhZvT_MC6Vf1/view?usp=sharing
02:26:18 <steve30> :D
02:36:53 <Ysjoelfir> I'm leaving for home. cu :)
02:37:33 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Farvel og har en hyggelige tid :)
03:13:40 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:14:58 <DHess_US> https://i.redd.it/dcj96maud4d31.jpg
03:35:18 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:18:54 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
04:58:54 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:59:10 <Ysjoelfir> hoi
04:59:59 <Lemon> oioi
05:00:29 <Ysjoelfir> ah, the watermelon!
05:00:54 <Ysjoelfir> I found the teardown videos i made of the multavis. u want to see them?
05:01:34 <Lemon> ho for sure dude !
05:01:57 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxSXuK3398Q multavi 7
05:02:11 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMZRIQ0sIFM multavi 2
05:02:35 Join: _mamalala ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:03:20 <_mamalala> aww, there i was, wondering what happened to #eevblog when the userlist looked strange ... on freenode ... seems it moved over here :)
05:05:17 <_mamalala> in any case, good #timeofday everyone
05:05:38 <Lemon> great Ysjoelfir, now I want one !
05:06:01 <_mamalala> what happened to the channel on freenode, though?
05:08:17 <Ysjoelfir> Hi mamalala :) donÄt know about freenode, I always went here
05:09:20 <_mamalala> Ysjoelfir: hmm, there was an #eevblog on freenode ... i mean, there still is, but different ... Ampera was there, T3sl4 too, etc...
05:09:35 <Ampera> That was AfterNET
05:09:55 <_mamalala> Ampera: uh ... now that you say it, i feel rather stupid ... haha
05:10:13 <_mamalala> damn, friggin computer rebuild
05:10:16 <Ampera> There /was/, or possibly is an #eevblog on freenode, but I've never been on it.
05:10:34 <_mamalala> yea... you are right, it is afternet ...
05:10:48 <Ampera> I'm still in it too
05:11:08 <Ampera> it used to be the official channel, then we decided to move it to an Australian net
05:11:14 <_mamalala> my brain just farted, because all my other channels are on freenet... and my freshly installed irc client does not list recently used networks
05:11:27 <_mamalala> (because, since it's freshly installed, there are no recently used ones...)
05:11:30 <coppice_> There was briefly a #eevblog in freenode. I have forgotten why
05:14:53 <_mamalala> coppice_: yea, as said, brainfart on my side... for some reason i was thinking it was freenode, then i ggogled and found this one... ah well, not getting any younger :P
05:16:09 <coppice_> Oh, I think it might have been an attempt by c4757p to find more users on freenode and migrate them to afternet
05:17:02 <_mamalala> hmmm, well, he was long gone even then from afternet
05:17:18 <_mamalala> in any case, found it, so all is good ... i'm rarely on chat anyways nowdays
05:23:58 <rust_collector> elloh!??
05:24:06 <Lemon> sup sup
05:24:24 <rust_collector> well, just got home... I have no idea?
05:24:54 <Lemon> thats already a good start
05:25:01 <_mamalala> rust_collector: hola!
05:25:17 <rust_collector> I had to be towed back on the road today. that is a thing. I t has to be 15 years since that happened
05:25:22 <rust_collector> hey _mamalala
05:26:14 <Lemon> ho crap
05:26:23 <Lemon> no bruises ?
05:27:08 <rust_collector> just minor stuff on my hands
05:27:35 <Lemon> ok nothing major
05:28:04 <_mamalala> rust_collector: huh? so it was not your car to get towed?
05:28:24 <rust_collector> Either my hands are very big, or the space between the wheels are getting smaller on trucks. I seriously can not get my hand between them
05:28:48 <rust_collector> it was my truck at work
05:28:53 <_mamalala> ahh... ok
05:29:53 <rust_collector> the rear end slid into the ditch, so I had that in front of the rear wheels, and a big tree just behind the rear, so there was not much to do
05:30:31 <rust_collector> so that was 2.5 hours of drinking coffee and listening to the radio
05:31:09 <_mamalala> rust_collector: well, you are not supposed to drive in ditches, but on the road instead :P
05:31:59 <rust_collector> I guess you have not seen the roads up here... it is probably better to avoid them entirely
05:32:54 <_mamalala> well, i'm not even driving any kind of car ... haha... but other than that, here in krautland the roads are rather nice, even in rural areas
05:33:05 <rust_collector> I know!
05:33:16 <rust_collector> it is a bit annoying
05:33:26 <_mamalala> where are you located, roughly?
05:34:01 <rust_collector> norway, roughly an hour or so to the south from oslo
05:34:11 <_mamalala> ahhh, ok
05:34:26 <_mamalala> lots of ice and crap, i guess, during this time of year?
05:34:29 <rust_collector> time for breakfast
05:34:37 <_mamalala> have a good one!
05:34:50 <rust_collector> well, we had a little bit of snow yesterday
05:34:56 <rust_collector> plenty of ice
05:35:04 <rust_collector> much crap
05:35:09 <_mamalala> :)
05:35:32 <rust_collector> but in general, it has not been much of a winter here. they got that up north
05:35:56 <_mamalala> yeah, it has been extremely mild this year over here as well
05:35:57 <rust_collector> still -30 or so up there
05:36:14 <_mamalala> rarely had a day below zero
05:36:28 <_mamalala> must be like tropical for you :P
05:38:56 <rust_collector> nah, the weather down here is pretty moderate
05:39:51 <_mamalala> so it's not not -30°C, but °F? i mean, if it was -30°C, that is pretty friggin cold from where i sit
05:40:03 <rust_collector> up north, they have -30
05:40:06 <rust_collector> c
05:40:10 <_mamalala> jeez
05:40:19 <rust_collector> here, it is 0
05:40:54 <rust_collector> -30f is also pretty cool
05:41:06 <_mamalala> for about 4 years i lived in Travemünde, at the baltic sea ... and the winter was nasty, for me ... had a scarf around your mouth, go out, and within a few minutes you had ice on the scarf
05:41:30 <_mamalala> did not like that at all ... can't imagine how nasty -30°C must be
05:41:54 <rust_collector> well, you can either skip the scarf, or stop breathing into it, I guess
05:42:03 <_mamalala> otoh, i don't like warm summers either ... if the temp would be around 20 all the time, that would be swell :P
05:42:43 <_mamalala> yea, nah, tried that back then, got nasty cold burns on my lips ... but then, i was a child back then, probably a lot of slobber involved
05:42:46 <rust_collector> usually, -30 is not so bad, because it will be pretty dry
05:43:18 <coppice_> if you don't like extremes, move to the coast. the temperatures vary a lot. of course you might have 95% humidity for most of the year, but nothing is perfect
05:43:28 <coppice_> a lot less
05:43:44 <Ysjoelfir> I prefer the weather in norway over the weather here in germany...
05:43:49 <_mamalala> coppice_: nah, i'm good, i have an AC now.... :P
05:44:43 <_mamalala> Ysjoelfir: ah, another kraut here, it seems?
05:46:09 <rust_collector> hmmm. no comment? means yes
05:46:20 <_mamalala> hehe
05:46:50 <Ysjoelfir> yep
05:47:51 <_mamalala> anyone here knows of a nice, small and "affordable" inductive proximity sensor with analogue output? captured distance should be around 15-20mm maximum
05:48:10 <_mamalala> minimum around 5mm or so
05:51:31 <rust_collector> https://imgur.com/a/jfhVVRU
05:51:33 <rust_collector> nope
05:52:05 <_mamalala> is that your truck?
05:52:13 <rust_collector> it was today
05:52:17 <_mamalala> i mean, it's halfway in a ditch
05:52:49 <_mamalala> that road looks scary for driving :P
05:52:55 <rust_collector> the seats do not recline enough for me, so... when you want to relax and drink coffee
05:53:02 <_mamalala> haha
05:53:36 <_mamalala> have you seen videos of these silly long truck "trains" in canada that driver over oce?
05:53:44 <_mamalala> *ice
05:53:49 <rust_collector> mmhmm
05:54:11 <rust_collector> not sure I have seen any trains, but I have seen trucks on ice
05:55:18 <_mamalala> it's basically a truck with a shitload of attached cars, like a train, and they drive over ice(y) terrain
05:55:33 <_mamalala> road train is another name for them, i think
05:55:39 <_mamalala> scary shit
05:55:59 <rust_collector> I am pretty sure you people in germanistan also drive on ice, to get lumber out of the woods and such.
05:56:23 <_mamalala> not that much ice here in the past few years
05:56:31 <rust_collector> road train is usually the australian thing, but I don't think they do well on the lakes
05:56:36 <_mamalala> and if, it's mostly in the mountain areas
05:56:42 <rust_collector> well, yes
05:57:15 <rust_collector> it would be where you had a reason to, so yeah
05:57:36 <rust_collector> but it is not as uncommon as normal people seems to think
05:57:57 <_mamalala> true...
05:58:07 <_mamalala> it just gets more and more uncommen here
05:58:30 <_mamalala> i mean, the snow and ice weather
05:58:41 <_mamalala> at least for now, that is
05:58:48 <rust_collector> yep
05:59:23 <rust_collector> bring back the cold war, when we at least had plenty of snow
05:59:37 <_mamalala> last year i had a tiny bit of snow that i had to brush away in the backyard and on the pavement ... this year, it was nothing
05:59:57 <rust_collector> what area is that?
06:00:12 <_mamalala> as a kid we had shitloads of snow, and back then i was not that far away from where i am now
06:00:18 <_mamalala> essen, germany
06:00:21 <Ampera> making a stir fry, wish me luck
06:00:26 <_mamalala> as a kid it was duesseldorf, germany
06:00:29 <rust_collector> lunk you Ampera
06:00:58 <_mamalala> Ampera: you need lots of oil, over a gas stove, to make it fry real good :P
06:03:01 <_mamalala> i mean, no kidding, i have seen people do that ... and some of them burned their houses down due to that sillyness
06:04:35 <_mamalala> getting the oild really hot ... then throwing frozen fries into it ... i'm wondering what they expected would happen
06:05:35 <Ampera> I've got gobs and gobs of bacon fat
06:05:53 <Ampera> and who puts fries in a stir fry
06:06:08 <_mamalala> Ampera: ever tried one of these hot air fryers?
06:06:35 <Ampera> yeah we got one for christmas and it blew up after the second use
06:06:49 <_mamalala> haha ... what did you do to it?
06:06:53 <Ampera> nothing
06:07:01 <Ampera> the element simply just shit itself
06:07:02 <_mamalala> ...right :P
06:07:09 <_mamalala> huh?
06:07:18 <_mamalala> no overtemp fuse in it?
06:09:35 <Ampera> no clue
06:09:46 <Ampera> all I know it's in bits in storage, awaiting the day someone tosses it out
06:10:48 <_mamalala> strange ... i mean, sure, temp-fuses can fail ... but i would at least assume that there was one in the unit... or should have been
06:11:31 <rust_collector> could be a one shot sort of fuse
06:12:54 <_mamalala> rust_collector: yes, they usually are ... at least the ones i know ... but i have seen them fail, that is, the stayed conductive even after the target temp was exceeded by a lot
06:13:19 <rust_collector> ok
06:13:32 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkTuHP9q3o
06:15:09 <_mamalala> rust_collector: other than missing some e-guitars and e-bass, it's also missing horns and met :P
06:15:43 <rust_collector> like this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsl-KHGe4Kk
06:15:57 <rust_collector> it is only missing
06:17:03 <rust_collector> well, there are plenty of weird music for weird people
06:17:38 <_mamalala> indeed ... after all, taste for music style is highly subjective
06:19:08 <rust_collector> is this the one you were looking for? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZVkESecXk
06:19:46 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
06:20:19 <_mamalala> lol :P
06:20:21 <rust_collector> ok, he gets so weird and cranky some times... just wait, he is just "looking at a house"
06:21:29 <rust_collector> this one has electric things, electronic things, and a bit of drums, after a loooong intro
06:21:31 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZug9y81Axk
06:21:33 <_mamalala> i'm an old fuck ... so i have a wide range of stuff i like ... led zeppelin to sodom, old-shool techno to dubstep, etc.... depends on the actual stuff
06:21:46 <rust_collector> sodom is nice
06:22:16 <coppice_> yeah, if you don't turned to a pillar of salt
06:22:42 <rust_collector> my wife really likes city of god. at least I think she does, she is waving her arms and singing, I think
06:23:01 <_mamalala> rust_collector: and it's a local band, basically, to where i live now :)
06:23:12 <rust_collector> well, that is ok
06:24:04 <rust_collector> agent Lemon was not a bad album, imo
06:25:42 <_mamalala> lemon?
06:25:46 <_mamalala> i think you mean orange
06:25:51 <_mamalala> still citrus, though
06:25:56 <rust_collector> same same
06:26:25 <rust_collector> I just hope Lemon wakes up soon
06:26:45 <rust_collector> I am afraid he enjoys cutting a bit more than he should
06:26:51 <_mamalala> short of lemonade, i guess?
06:27:07 <_mamalala> depends on what he's cutting, and how
06:27:24 <rust_collector> with knipex ultra super snips
06:27:24 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:27:32 <_mamalala> i mean, i'm always acting like a child on christmas when i get to fire up my cheap 40w china lasercutter
06:27:43 <_mamalala> ahh, knipex
06:27:48 <_mamalala> yes, they are the best
06:28:43 <_mamalala> they just last forever... the small sidecutters as well as the large ones and the insulation strippers
06:28:56 <_mamalala> unless you badly mistreat them, of course
06:29:07 <rust_collector> as you do
06:29:17 <_mamalala> not me
06:29:26 <rust_collector> ok, the rest of us then
06:29:51 <_mamalala> i mean, sure, give me some cheap shit and i will abuse that .... but good tools, those i treat well
06:30:51 <rust_collector> but the good tools won't have a problem with a bit of abuse... stop being backwards, lol
06:31:37 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MfT-L-vkJQ
06:32:10 <_mamalala> well, true ... it's not that i never abuse them ... i just try to take care
06:32:14 <rust_collector> hey! it is weekend! I should send the kids to school, and find some speakers
06:32:22 <rust_collector> mmhmmmm
06:32:39 <_mamalala> speakers? want to have some revox symbol b?
06:33:05 <rust_collector> I think the wife has some speakers that makes sound
06:33:18 <_mamalala> yes, they are called "wife" :P
06:33:25 <rust_collector> I am not very into hifi or wifi or what they call it these days
06:33:39 <_mamalala> snake oil is the word you are looking for
06:34:22 <_mamalala> the revox i have are from the late 70's or early 80's ... they are big, and sound good, and are loud ... but the bass drivers need to be reconed by now
06:34:50 <_mamalala> red-neck-fixed them with stuff, but still ...
06:35:09 <_mamalala> also, i like to get rid of them, they are just too big
06:35:26 <rust_collector> we threw out a set of ancient bigass speakers last year.
06:35:46 <_mamalala> hehe
06:35:46 <rust_collector> they were pretty ok, but the dogs ate the speakers
06:39:57 <rust_collector> the foam rings
06:40:22 <rust_collector> but yes, they were just too big
06:47:24 <Lemon> I think I need to buy more cables
06:47:37 <rust_collector> I told you about that
06:47:47 <Lemon> haha :>
06:48:01 <Lemon> they are really great, I tried on a few through hole legs leftovers
06:49:20 <Lemon> and the psu is dope too !
06:49:50 <rust_collector> uuhm... which one did you end up with again?
06:49:59 <Lemon> it might need calibration, I saw that both channels are a bit off when set to 0v, one is at minus 0.01mv or so, which is negligible, but the other is at 0.3v
06:50:06 <Lemon> the tds 4000 !
06:50:06 <rust_collector> the 2.5 channel... somehting
06:50:11 <rust_collector> hmm, yes
06:50:20 <Lemon> with two outputs at 30v2a and one fixed 5v3a
06:50:26 <rust_collector> right
06:50:29 <Lemon> one dense mofo really
06:50:37 <Lemon> a lot smaller than expected, but not lighter by any means lol
06:50:51 <rust_collector> I will allow you to ship it up here, when you get bored with it
06:50:59 <_mamalala> Lemon: ever tried a metcal soldering iron?
06:51:09 <Lemon> I saw a dude selling a keithley 740 for 10 euros, not that I need it or ever now what is it, but I want it !
06:51:16 <Lemon> no never !
06:51:31 <_mamalala> you should
06:51:37 <Lemon> im using a ts100, and a cheapo regulated one for other stuff
06:51:40 <Lemon> how is it ?
06:51:46 <_mamalala> well
06:52:13 <rust_collector> one end gets hot
06:52:42 <Lemon> :>
06:52:43 <_mamalala> you take a smd soldering tip, with a 30° bevel ... and a huge piece of blank pcb ... and a coin ... and you just solder that coin onto the pcb with the smd tip in no time :)
06:53:18 <Lemon> im gonna look it up, once my internet stop acting up
06:53:35 <_mamalala> and no, there is no temp regulation besides the three different tip temps (they are catridges, actually)
06:53:44 <rust_collector> well, I have always wondered why you would want a coin on your pcb
06:54:05 <_mamalala> rust_collector: to impress the chicks ... uh ... oh ... never mind
06:54:16 <rust_collector> value adding feature
06:54:26 <Lemon> hmm are those all purpose ?
06:54:37 <Lemon> I guess they must be fairly powerful right ? to do that
06:54:48 <Lemon> the ts100 is quite impressive seeing how tiny and lightweight it is
06:54:49 <_mamalala> Lemon: you can build the supply unit yourself, i did a diy circuit some years ago, and it's on the eevblog forum somewhere
06:54:51 <Lemon> especially for 50 bucks
06:54:59 <_mamalala> nope
06:55:15 <_mamalala> the older ones are 30 watts, the newer ones are 50 watts
06:55:15 <Lemon> rust_collector https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1700948292.htm/
06:55:36 <_mamalala> the really new ones are 80 watts
06:55:55 <rust_collector> I see your point there. it looks neat
06:56:05 <_mamalala> but then, the wattage is pretty different from what you are used to with regular irons
06:56:28 <Lemon> its using that direct heat techno ? I keep seeing it, the ts100 is using it too
06:56:36 <Lemon> (I want that keithley)
06:56:39 <_mamalala> not really
06:56:53 <_mamalala> ever heard of the curie effect?
06:57:12 <coppice_> yes. its curie-us
06:57:21 <rust_collector> does it have a big chunky block of metal, so it does not cool down so fast?
06:57:34 <_mamalala> rust_collector: nope, quite the contrary
06:57:37 <MrMobodies> <@DogWomble_> thanks for the links on the baseline adaptor as I couldn't find any
06:57:44 <Lemon> why are you putting new things to buy on my list
06:58:02 <rust_collector> ok, so it has no power, no mass, but it somehow still has a lot of oomph
06:58:15 <_mamalala> basically, it uses the curie effect ... when the metal (alloy) reaches a certain temp, it looses its electromagnetic properties
06:58:49 <_mamalala> so you wrap one layer of that metal around a small copper slug, which is your tip ... and over that, you wind a small coil
06:59:01 <_mamalala> you feed that coil with RF power
06:59:19 <_mamalala> basically, you have a transformer with the secondary shorted
06:59:25 <Lemon> hmm thats interesting, I'll surely read more on it !
06:59:27 <Lemon> brb guys
06:59:45 <_mamalala> all the "station" has to do is to see if there is a big mismatch and turn down
07:00:13 <_mamalala> the end result is that whatever you do, the temp at the soldering tip stays very close to what it is supposed to be
07:00:45 <_mamalala> because there is so little thermal mass involved, and the "regulation" is actually a physical effect
07:01:42 <_mamalala> sure, the stuff is somewhat expensive if you buy it new .... but it's worth every peeny, if you do soldering on more than a few occasions
07:01:46 <Ampera> Somehow I didn't fuck up my stir fry
07:01:51 <Ampera> I used way too much oil/grease
07:01:59 <Ampera> but besides that, it tastes perfectly fine
07:03:22 <_mamalala> Ampera: well, thankfully you didn't burn down your house :)
07:03:40 <Ampera> The firemen liked it too.
07:03:47 <MrMobodies> flame grill?
07:03:53 <rust_collector> house? I think Ampera lives in a mud hut in africa
07:04:18 <Ampera> Honestly, for having never ever made a stir fry in my life, it went well
07:04:30 <rust_collector> just keep stirring
07:04:36 <Ampera> I did rice noodles, chicken, and mushrooms for the main bit
07:04:48 <MrMobodies> I know I was served stir fry chicken which was okay and not too oily.
07:05:01 <MrMobodies> but no mushrooms
07:05:03 <Ampera> and the sauce was condensed beef stock, worchestershire sauce, thai fish sauce, and bacon grease
07:05:22 <Ampera> oh, and brown sugar
07:05:35 * T3sl4 hugs, sniffs Ampera
07:05:36 <Ampera> it's perhaps every so slightly too sweet, but the taste is just fine
07:05:43 <Ampera> might have done with some vinegar
07:05:44 <T3sl4> mmm, stir fry
07:05:45 <MrMobodies> bacon and fish sauce that sounds nice
07:05:45 <_mamalala> Ampera: well, i hope you got the right kind of mushroom, so you have some fun with your meal
07:05:57 <Ampera> they were normal white mushrooms
07:06:01 <_mamalala> ohhh, look, T3sl4 woke up!
07:06:20 <T3sl4> woke up? i'm headed to bed mang
07:06:24 <T3sl4> :D
07:06:27 <MrMobodies> I refuse to my my food flame grilled
07:06:36 <MrMobodies> it gives the cook an excuse to burn my food
07:06:36 <_mamalala> T3sl4: lol
07:06:58 * _mamalala has induction cooktops
07:07:05 <T3sl4> MrMobodies: i refuse to masturbate because i might touch my dick and touching dicks is gay.
07:07:27 <_mamalala> never badly burn crap again ... heat up shit really fast, etc, etc...
07:07:42 <MrMobodies> okay, T3s14, that sounds little strange but it founds funny
07:07:56 <T3sl4> same logic :P
07:08:02 <_mamalala> T3sl4: well, how do you pee?
07:08:11 <Ampera> I've never masturbated in my life
07:08:13 <MrMobodies> I'll have the cook cook it my way
07:08:17 <Ampera> I am incapable of deriving pleasure from it
07:08:24 <_mamalala> Ampera: and i never lied in my life
07:08:42 <Ampera> you can proclaim whatever, but I am dead serious, and it's not something particularly good
07:08:58 <_mamalala> hmmm, good for you then, i guess?
07:09:04 <Ampera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkebcBzYA
07:09:16 <Ampera> btw, for anyone who lives in the UK, this is a good resource
07:09:23 <rust_collector> did you film not masturbating?
07:09:36 <_mamalala> Ampera: fully agree!
07:09:52 <MrMobodies> I collect things
07:09:56 <MrMobodies> hardware equipment
07:09:57 <_mamalala> the count is the best... with the hugest dong or so :P
07:10:02 <MrMobodies> and that is my pleasure
07:10:13 <MrMobodies> seeing how they work and pick out the best at task
07:10:21 <MrMobodies> i
07:10:56 <MrMobodies> I just got back from the pub. 5 shots of Baileys, full of ice, with a straw
07:11:09 <MrMobodies> and that is no longer satisfying.
07:11:52 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: i have several spare units.... care to pick them up? one working flike desk multimeter, a working hp frecuency counter, a broken hp digital scope
07:12:16 <MrMobodies> You in England?
07:12:16 <_mamalala> *fluke
07:12:17 <Ampera> In other news, I start my first job on Monday.
07:12:24 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: no, i'm in germany
07:12:25 <MrMobodies> wonderful
07:12:33 <Ampera> in unrelated news, I am upgrading my PC soon.
07:12:53 <_mamalala> Ampera: ha ... hope you have better luck than me ...
07:13:00 <Ampera> what happened to you
07:13:13 <_mamalala> i was forced to "update", because something broke on the old mainboard
07:13:14 <Lemon> _mamalala that freq counter is interesting !
07:13:21 <_mamalala> so i got all new parts
07:13:36 <MrMobodies> Nice when you get new parts and they just work
07:13:47 <_mamalala> the board has 8 SATA ports, and two M.2 or whatever it is called ...
07:14:03 <_mamalala> because i had RAID's in my previous box ... but guess what
07:14:16 <Ampera> The parts I will use will vary based on money and time
07:14:21 <_mamalala> using one M.2 disables two SATA on that fucking board
07:14:22 <Ampera> but I plan for the 3950X
07:14:27 <Ampera> 64-128GB of DDR4
07:14:42 <Lemon> pfff, dual cpus or nothing !
07:14:49 <MrMobodies> not even a quad core now
07:14:56 <_mamalala> Lemon: feel free to pick it up here
07:15:07 <Lemon> england is a bit far sadly :/
07:15:14 <Ampera> I'd love dual EPYC, but there comes a time and point where the more money I would put into a computer the less I'd get back
07:15:20 <_mamalala> let me drag it out to give the model numbers
07:15:26 <Lemon> I went with two e5 2698 v3's
07:15:31 <Lemon> QS units
07:15:41 <Lemon> for the price, its unbeatable
07:15:44 <MrMobodies> power bills too I worry about
07:16:15 <Ampera> Lemon, a 750 3950X almost doubles it on passmark
07:16:21 <Ampera> *750$
07:16:32 <rust_collector> electricity has not been cheaper than now in... 15 years probably
07:16:36 <Ampera> how much did you pay for the board and CPUs
07:16:37 <Lemon> yeah, but I paid under 500 euros for both :>
07:16:44 <Lemon> 200 for the board
07:16:52 <Ampera> not bad
07:16:55 <Lemon> for 64gb ddr4 ecc, around 150 I think
07:17:07 <Ampera> that being said, I will have PCIe 4, meaning faster SSDs
07:17:14 <Lemon> theres a trick to make them run at 3,6ghz all the time
07:17:19 <_mamalala> so ... the bench dmm is a fluke 8502A with all options except the cal-mem
07:17:20 <Ampera> I'll also have far far better upgrade potential
07:17:21 <Lemon> to hit 5k+ on cinebench
07:17:39 <Lemon> yeah thats true !
07:17:44 <_mamalala> the counter is a HP 5345A wth the high precission osc
07:17:49 <MrMobodies> When I upgrade I am looking for a board that does not have a picture of a gun on it
07:17:57 <Lemon> but in real world I have still a hard time seeing a difference between my sata 3 and m2 nvme
07:17:58 <MrMobodies> or fancy decorations of games
07:18:05 <Ampera> MrMobodies, oh decaled parts, I sorta miss those
07:18:14 <Ampera> but I'm afraid nobody's done that since maybe 2011
07:18:22 <Ampera> now it's all RGB and sharp edges
07:18:36 <Lemon> _mamalala that counter is working ? you'd sell those ? :>
07:18:50 <_mamalala> Lemon: yes, it is working perfectly fine
07:19:38 <_mamalala> and no, i don't sell it, you just have to pick it up ... but obviously, if you accidentally drop some money for the coffee stuff i wouldn't mind :P
07:19:39 <MrMobodies> Thanks for offering your equipment. Lemon could have some fun out of it
07:20:11 <_mamalala> Lemon: and no, it
07:20:21 <_mamalala> 's not filthy dirty or anything
07:20:30 <rust_collector> Lemon, do you have a very very very sturdy bench?
07:20:54 <Lemon> ho yeah I dont worry about that desk, I'd stay under incase of an atomic bomb drop
07:21:11 <rust_collector> ok
07:21:17 <rust_collector> go ahead then
07:21:23 <Lemon> damn thats a really nice offer, but I already got some tears thinking about the shipping from england of such an heavy piece
07:21:47 <Lemon> but I would surely give something for it
07:22:23 <Lemon> are you into something in particular ? you said coffee stuff, are you an amateur of good coffees ? :>
07:22:24 <_mamalala> Lemon: just wanted to /query you, but it complained about me not being registered because you have +R --- oh well :P
07:22:43 <Lemon> ha yeah I need to register !
07:22:47 <_mamalala> Lemon: na, i just need coffeine in the morning, that's all
07:23:33 <Lemon> ho alright :>
07:23:41 <Lemon> its 17kg ? goddamit
07:23:51 <Lemon> it beats my current anchors !
07:23:52 <_mamalala> Lemon: could you connect to freenode?
07:24:14 <_mamalala> just because it does not need any fancy registration
07:24:27 <_mamalala> no need to join any channel
07:25:02 <Lemon> ho sure I can, its been a long time since I havent been on irc
07:25:32 <Ampera> now comes the worst part of making stir fry
07:25:38 <Ampera> cleaning up the explosive mess I've made in the kitchen
07:25:51 <_mamalala> Ampera: getting the good stuff out of the mess?
07:26:15 <_mamalala> Lemon: let me know when you are theren and what nick if it is different
07:26:24 <MrMobodies> I find it easier to clean the spatula out when it is still hot with tissue
07:26:31 <Lemon> well it seems to take forever to load, I took Lemon :>
07:26:42 <_mamalala> make lemonade!!
07:27:28 <Lemon> ha all good ! im on
07:28:36 <Lemon> it seems Lemon is already taken, which isnt surprising
07:28:40 <Lemon> should I change ?
07:29:06 <_mamalala> well, yes, otherwise i can't /query you :P
07:29:26 <_mamalala> otoh, my nick there is _mamalala_
07:29:35 <_mamalala> sou you can /query me instead
07:29:50 <Lemon> alright its lemonizerrr now :>
07:33:16 <MrMobodies> I am going for more coffee to make me sober
07:33:28 <MrMobodies> from the Irish Cream
07:33:32 <rust_collector> haha, good luck with that
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07:38:50 <Ampera> kitchen is now clean
07:39:17 <rust_collector> you can fix that
07:39:44 <rust_collector> I have a weird urge to make cabbage rolls
08:13:25 <T3sl4> i have a weird urge to roll your head of cabbage
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09:29:48 <MrMobodies> Colin Furze and a Jet powered hoover
09:29:56 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT8QkEK0X8U
09:30:17 <MrMobodies> so whilst he is cleaning up it's giving out fumes
09:30:43 <MrMobodies> I suppose it is comedy
09:32:09 <rust_collector> some times, doing things just because you can, is ok
10:08:43 <MrMobodies> Need some advice on SSD'S
10:08:51 <MrMobodies> they say 2D nand is quicker
10:10:11 <MrMobodies> I had a neighbour who brought a Kingston 960GB ssd and my cheapo RHSSD-4F-BGAF £20 outperformed it
10:17:06 <_mamalala> yay! the sour citrus fruit wants my old test equipment ....
10:17:17 <MrMobodies> Here we go
10:17:18 <MrMobodies> https://imgur.com/a/g4p3pHm
10:17:19 <_mamalala> nice to see it go to a good home
10:17:30 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
10:17:53 <rust_collector> keep going, he will buy whatever big heavy old stuff you can find
10:18:04 <Ampera> MrMobodies, in general lower levels of MLC tend to be more reliable and sometimes faster, controllers are really what determine speed, as well as interface.
10:18:16 <_mamalala> rust_collector: there is no buying
10:18:23 <Ampera> if you have PCIe 4, buy the nice Corsair SSDs, if not, they're still not a bad bet.
10:18:30 <Ampera> If you need cheap, Intel QLCs are alright.
10:18:36 <_mamalala> rust_collector: it's for free, only thing to pay is shipping
10:18:51 <rust_collector> well, he will unbuy whatever old heavy big stuff you can find
10:18:51 <EEVBlog> T3sl4! A friend for you to play with! His name is, rust_collector!
10:18:51 <MrMobodies> I suppose I would have spend a bit to make worthwhile
10:19:41 <MrMobodies> going to look at the Corsair SSDs.
10:19:53 <_mamalala> rust_collector: nah.... he will see to it that it is collected here
10:20:11 <_mamalala> all i have to do is to package it up
10:20:17 <Ampera> Samsung SSDs tend to be regarded as the high end standard, but they can be impossible to get for a decent price.
10:20:32 <MrMobodies> I have noticed
10:20:56 <MrMobodies> only 3 bad reviews, one fault, and a return one that wasn't wiped.
10:20:57 <MrMobodies> https://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B077SF8KMG/ref=acr_dp_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
10:21:04 <MrMobodies> That's good
10:21:17 <coppice_> Ampera: we got some Samsung SSDs on considerable Black Friday discount
10:21:25 <Ampera> how considerable?
10:22:00 <Ampera> My SSD is a Mushkin 1TB TLC NVMe PCIe 3.0
10:22:06 <_mamalala> Ampera: well, the Intel SSD's are pretty great ... at least the ones i had .... but then, who wants to buy used SSD's ....
10:22:07 <Ampera> It works well enough.
10:22:22 <_mamalala> gahhh
10:22:40 <MrMobodies> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mushkin-PILOT-Internal-Solid-MKNSSDPL1TB-D8/dp/B07CYDM17T/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Mushkin+1TB+TLC+NVMe+PCIe+3.0&qid=1580512949&sr=8-1
10:22:41 <coppice_> Ampera: 1TB SATA drives were less than 100 pounds
10:22:45 <_mamalala> NVM, M.2.... don't bring it up, please.... :P
10:22:53 <coppice_> Ampera: and 20% of that is VAT
10:23:00 <Ampera> 20% VAT?
10:23:02 <Ampera> holy shit
10:23:12 <rust_collector> I have had 3 intel ssds just lock up. I made 2 of them come back to life, with a tool found in internet, in a weird language
10:23:21 <Ampera> MrMobodies, actually exactly that one
10:23:25 <Ampera> though the price on that isn't worth it
10:23:29 <Ampera> buy Corsair.
10:23:31 <MrMobodies> that is interesting it uses the same controller as these cheapoe 256gb PKGAD LWF S1704300
10:23:51 <MrMobodies> I like what I am readng about Corsair so I think'd go for that
10:23:52 <Ampera> yeah the controller isn't excellent, but it was better than my SATA SSD, and at the time was a good price
10:24:10 <_mamalala> my old PC was dying ... so i got new shit .... one special thing i needed was many SATA ports, but i was willing to loose two for some M.2 or whatever SSD slots
10:24:27 <MrMobodies> old pc dying? the PSU?
10:24:38 <_mamalala> so ... i got the shit ... built it .... and four of my HD's were missing
10:25:38 <MrMobodies> thank you Ampera.
10:25:42 <_mamalala> turned out that the board had 8 SATA ports, sure ... but for every M.2 (or whatever, i'm sure it's not the right name), two SATA ports got disabled
10:26:08 <Ampera> When I upgrade to Zen 2, I plan to buy a PCIe 4 Corsair SSD
10:26:28 <Ampera> 215 bucks for the one I want (at the moment)
10:26:42 <_mamalala> so i was left with only four SATA ... which is a bit meager if you have a 4 disk RAID-5, an SATA DVD, etc...
10:27:31 <_mamalala> oh, and a two disk RAID for random data, again two disks
10:27:47 <_mamalala> what the fuck are these people thinking?
10:27:48 <Ampera> seq read up to 4950 MBps, 4250 write, and 680,000/600,000 IOPS 4K random RW
10:27:55 <Ampera> which are happy numbers
10:28:31 <_mamalala> i don't care for the numbers ... i want ports
10:29:01 <_mamalala> after all, i only have dev-stuff there, my mp3 collection, videos, etc
10:29:22 <Ampera> well if I'm throwing cash down i want numbers
10:29:39 <_mamalala> but for what?
10:32:11 <_mamalala> i mean, that you can copy some video faster that you can watch it?
10:32:40 <MrMobodies> Last year I put in 6 of those 256GB wave SSD's and couldn't decide on the raid stuff so I spent weeks experimenting
10:32:42 <MrMobodies> https://imgur.com/a/Tuj4Y68
10:33:26 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: well, what purpose did you want t he RAID to have?
10:34:06 <_mamalala> if you want speed, use RAID-0, if your machine even can handle that with 6 disks
10:34:19 <_mamalala> if you want integrity, use raid-6
10:34:25 <MrMobodies> I think I I decided on the middle
10:35:04 <MrMobodies> 32k on the controller
10:35:35 <_mamalala> ?
10:35:59 <MrMobodies> oh when they are formatted
10:36:28 <_mamalala> well, what 32k?
10:36:29 <MrMobodies> by the controller... I loosing my memory
10:36:43 <_mamalala> oh
10:36:46 <MrMobodies> stripe size
10:37:04 <_mamalala> you have a hardware controller doing the raid?
10:37:21 <MrMobodies> On the HP G5 DL380
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10:37:24 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
10:37:45 <_mamalala> well, good luck with that if something goes wrong
10:37:54 <MrMobodies> It has 8 slots
10:38:01 <_mamalala> so?
10:38:06 <MrMobodies> there is a 2tb drive in there for when it goes wrong
10:38:15 <_mamalala> so?
10:38:17 <MrMobodies> and a 1tb backup drive that I had a copy
10:38:24 <_mamalala> don't get me wrong here
10:38:29 <MrMobodies> I already prepared for when it when goes wrong
10:38:56 <_mamalala> but what other thing can you use, besides that controller, if something goes wrong?
10:39:33 <MrMobodies> Apparently on that particular HP controller you can pull out single drives and plug them straight in
10:39:50 <_mamalala> sure ... as long as you have that controller
10:39:52 <MrMobodies> they say it doesn't support jbod but join the drive and it works
10:40:01 <Ampera> hi ThunderSqueak
10:40:02 <Ampera> how do
10:40:29 <MrMobodies> if the controller fails the SSD'S don't matter to me, but the backup drives I can take out and mount with no problem
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10:40:48 <MrMobodies> So I made sure of it and know what to do
10:41:31 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: you do understand that any raid depends on whatever is controlling it? and that as soon as you leave that to some prop controller, you are fucked in the long run, yes?
10:41:53 <ThunderSqueak> hi there, I am fine I guess
10:42:12 <ThunderSqueak> just cleaned the house for the D&D game that is this eve
10:42:15 <MrMobodies> I am aware of that and had my fair share of problems in tthe past
10:43:01 <MrMobodies> oh yes some drives such as the power saving ones if they put in the HP 400 raid controllers kicks them off for taking too long to spin up in (non raid single)
10:43:02 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: and you still trust some HP controller?
10:43:16 <MrMobodies> this particiular one I had used for 4 years
10:43:18 <MrMobodies> no problems
10:43:34 <MrMobodies> it had about 6 64gb sas drives in there
10:44:05 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: i get the impression that you don't relly understand the basic issue
10:44:06 <MrMobodies> I once had a Megaraid Enterprise 1600 scsi controller with 15000rpm 6 Fujistu and 2 Seagate drives
10:44:13 <MrMobodies> basic issue?
10:44:18 <_mamalala> yes
10:44:24 <MrMobodies> what am I missing please tell me?
10:44:50 <_mamalala> sure ... what piece of $thing does your raid?
10:45:19 <MrMobodies> I think it was this one
10:45:21 <MrMobodies> http://1000servers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/4/p400-002_1.jpg
10:45:37 <_mamalala> and it does it in "hardware"
10:45:42 <MrMobodies> HP Smart Array P400 Controller
10:45:56 <MrMobodies> I belived it does, I confirm that again
10:46:12 <_mamalala> so, what can you do with the disks if that controller fails?
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10:47:20 <MrMobodies> https://support.hpe.com/hpesc/public/docDisplay?docId=emr_na-c00677275
10:47:35 <MrMobodies> I can pull them out and I have some choices
10:47:49 <MrMobodies> I have some recovery tools to convert them into disc images
10:48:06 <MrMobodies> I have a backup drive that I can pull out and
10:48:10 <_mamalala> well, the first choice to have javascript enabled to even see the page you linked to ... but ok ...
10:48:16 <MrMobodies> I'd get another controller off ebay and so on
10:48:37 <_mamalala> i see
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10:49:35 <MrMobodies> It uses a 440 PowerPC Processor according to datasheet
10:49:38 <_mamalala> so what you are saying is basically that you can't do anything with your data once you run out of places to buy a controller
10:49:41 <MrMobodies> in the package
10:49:51 <MrMobodies> no not at all
10:50:05 <MrMobodies> oh if I can't get the same controller
10:50:42 <_mamalala> ok ... so, lets assume that you have your raid, your fancy hp controller borks up, and you can't get another one ....
10:50:56 <_mamalala> how do you get your data back?
10:51:25 <MrMobodies> I have used Getdataback RAID Recovery for Windows
10:51:34 <rust_collector> just use the floppy backups
10:51:53 <_mamalala> rust_collector: i heavily vote for that!
10:51:58 <MrMobodies> maybe I could test it one day to see if it will detect the raid and make images and mount them and so on
10:52:30 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: you are the impersonation of all that is wrong with storage, i'm afraid to say
10:52:56 <MrMobodies> Okay... how would you do it?
10:53:15 <_mamalala> "yay, we are safe, we do backups" ... "have you tried to Play back these backups?" .... CRICKETS
10:53:30 <MrMobodies> yes I have on a number of drives
10:53:41 <MrMobodies> I copies on many other drives
10:54:11 <MrMobodies> What I do when I am finished disc imaging I extract them and see if they work on another drive
10:54:15 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: first of all, never, ever, use any proprietary controller for rais ... that is just stupid and directly circumvents the purpose
10:54:20 <_mamalala> *raid
10:54:39 <MrMobodies> okay so if I buy a Dell with one their branded controllers in.
10:54:55 <MrMobodies> replace it with something else of course one with a parity unit
10:55:04 <MrMobodies> a Dell server sorry
10:55:04 <_mamalala> second, never ever use any propietary piece of software for anything data related ... ever
10:55:33 <_mamalala> there is software raid
10:55:34 <MrMobodies> So LSILogic controller, HP branded, just use the LSIlogic drivers
10:55:41 <MrMobodies> I don't use software raid
10:55:49 <MrMobodies> I have seen them sooo slow
10:55:52 <_mamalala> that's the problem
10:57:40 <_mamalala> too slow? haha
10:58:12 <MrMobodies> Doesn't the PowerPc 400 has parity onit
10:58:22 <_mamalala> look at what processor your raid controller has on board ...
10:58:35 <_mamalala> compare that to whatever cpu you have on your board
10:58:59 <_mamalala> keep in mind the limitations of whatever pciX you connect it to ,
10:59:15 <_mamalala> and, obviously, the limits of whatever your drives can handle
11:00:19 <_mamalala> now, and this is the important part, what do you really want? a few MB per second more, or some increased redundancy to make your data safe?
11:00:21 <MrMobodies> it looks like does
11:00:22 <MrMobodies> https://www.design-reuse.com/articles/15952/raid6-accelerator-in-a-powerpc-iop-soc.html
11:00:51 <MrMobodies> I mean the parity unit
11:00:58 <_mamalala> so what?
11:01:00 <Halcyon> Mmmm coffee
11:01:04 <MrMobodies> I know that one is on Pci-e 8x bus
11:01:19 <MrMobodies> but I am skeptical of using software raid
11:01:32 <MrMobodies> and without any automated backup plan
11:01:33 <_mamalala> no matter what you think these hardware controllers offer, if they die, your data is gine
11:01:58 <Halcyon> Regardless of RAID config, backups are essential
11:02:02 <_mamalala> otoh, if you have software raid, recovering data is trivial
11:02:09 <Halcyon> Personally I use ZFS
11:02:12 <MrMobodies> I know had problems in the past with that happening with Scsi raid
11:02:29 <_mamalala> plus, on modern architectures there is little pnalty, unless you operate a big data centre
11:02:43 <MrMobodies> I once had on an Supermicro X5DL8 board a 3WARE 9550, and I brought a couple of them incase it failed
11:02:51 <Halcyon> You can rebuild hardware RAID as well. Programs like X-Ways has a RAID Reconstructor
11:02:56 <MrMobodies> but then it might not pick up the old raid
11:03:17 <MrMobodies> I I think heard of something like that on Barts boot cd?
11:03:23 <_mamalala> and even then, the cost of extra cpu cycles for sw-raid is well worth it if you consider what your data is worth
11:03:45 <MrMobodies> I refuse to go near software raid as like with the Silicon Image stuff
11:04:15 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: well, then all we can hope for is that you never encounter a real problem
11:04:42 <_mamalala> pretty much like that antivirus snake-oil ... that never really protects you
11:05:01 <MrMobodies> I think I know what you might also be saying. Some controllers password protect the drive,
11:05:09 <MrMobodies> I had that happen before
11:05:28 <MrMobodies> even when removing the raid and drive it failed to unlock it
11:05:36 <_mamalala> full disk encryption is also easy to do in "software"
11:06:19 <_mamalala> after all, all modern cpu's have dedicated crypto, which results in fairly low extra cycles spent
11:06:21 <MrMobodies> I store most of my data on external drives
11:06:32 <MrMobodies> and all the copies of the stuff are on there
11:06:47 <_mamalala> which you connect to that fancy hp controller, i guess?
11:06:47 <MrMobodies> I think it is a Sata 2 pci 8x esata card
11:07:26 <MrMobodies> just the SSD'S drives, and 1 or 2tb (copy if the ssd's fail)
11:07:30 <_mamalala> which then, of course, automagically does some raid stuff
11:07:40 <MrMobodies> I wouldn't call it fancy
11:07:53 <MrMobodies> not at those prices
11:07:54 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//233333536258
11:08:10 <_mamalala> well, i call it shitty, no matter the price
11:08:34 <MrMobodies> what do you find not so good about them?
11:09:08 <_mamalala> that you can never, ever, recover the data of these raid arrays without that controller
11:09:09 <MrMobodies> inflexible? are they missing options in them? non standard stuff it does
11:09:36 <_mamalala> you are always dependendant on some closed manufacturer
11:09:44 <MrMobodies> I had in there a 1tb Seagate, I can pull that out and connect it to my sata controller on my desktop, I put it back in and picks it up.
11:09:55 <MrMobodies> It is just a single drive
11:09:56 <DHess_US> MrMobodies, just ordered an Areca 1220 which supports RAID6 to replace my Areca 1210.
11:10:54 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: so it's a simple raid-0 then
11:11:05 <MrMobodies> Looks good https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264605436962
11:11:09 <MrMobodies> no nononp
11:11:20 <MrMobodies> I think it was a raid 5
11:11:32 <MrMobodies> I would never use Raid 0 for that
11:11:34 <_mamalala> that's just not possible then
11:11:54 <MrMobodies> 6 ssd's in Raid 5 I think I set it as that
11:12:13 <_mamalala> the _only_ thing that even remotely allows you to take a single drive out, connect it elsewhere, and read data is raid-0
11:12:23 <MrMobodies> 1 spare 1tb seagate that I can pull out, and access. and a spare 2tb
11:12:24 <MrMobodies> oh I see
11:12:25 <MrMobodies> yes
11:13:01 <_mamalala> and that is only if that raid-0 handles disks like regular ones, and not controller specific
11:14:05 <MrMobodies> If the Raid controllers, you have a good point on that, I don't expect to recover any data the SSD'S for the particular purpose I am using it for. I'd would just low level format them, and load the image, put the new controller in and run a script to copy the last stuff from the external drives
11:14:24 <DHess_US> Not all RAID controllers treat RAID 0 or RAID 1 as regular disks.
11:14:40 <DHess_US> 3ware certainly didn't
11:15:05 <MrMobodies> This paricular HP one, if the drive has been formatted and partitioned, put it in there and it shows up as a single dribe.
11:15:15 <MrMobodies> so that has worked in my favour
11:15:20 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: please just read what you wrote, think hard about it, then think harder in the context of RAID, and then get back to me
11:15:42 <MrMobodies> Maybe I don't understand what it is you are trying to say
11:15:56 <MrMobodies> or maybe you don't understand what I have or I didn't tell you everything
11:16:09 <_mamalala> DHess_US: most proprietary controllers give a fuck about regular ... that's why they rae so dangerous
11:16:09 <MrMobodies> I do have a plan for when it goes wrong
11:16:23 <MrMobodies> aah you don't trust raid controllers?
11:16:41 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: ok, then lets start from the beginning .... what is the purpose of a RAID?
11:17:04 <DHess_US> _mamalala, most of the controllers I have used didn't care. 3ware was an exception which did.
11:17:23 <MrMobodies> achieve some extra capacity, fault tollerance
11:17:24 <DHess_US> I do not remember if Areca does but I will find out again shortly.
11:17:36 <MrMobodies> and sometimes performance is achieved especially with my setup 12 years ago
11:17:55 <_mamalala> DHess_US: i have seen IBM controllers as well, plus a bunch of others
11:18:10 <MrMobodies> any Megaraid stuff?
11:18:22 <MrMobodies> the ones with the I960 cpu on it?
11:18:27 <DHess_US> Probably going to swap my 4 port Areca for the 8 port one by just moving the disks. Then I may upgrade the 4 x 750 RAID5 to 6 x 1G RAID 6 plus a 2 x 3T RAID 1
11:18:31 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: what now, extra capacity or tolerance, be specific
11:18:39 <MrMobodies> tolerance
11:19:07 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: ok, that means that you can not plug a single disk into something else and read the data
11:19:47 <MrMobodies> I have got a HP kvm network switch, when it is finished, I will turn that HP server one, invite you to see for yourself
11:20:02 <MrMobodies> I don't know why but it does on this controller
11:20:15 <_mamalala> we are not talking about servers, but about raid's
11:20:21 <MrMobodies> it wouldn't do it in the 3ware unless set to Jbod
11:20:30 <MrMobodies> aah
11:20:43 <MrMobodies> I am talking about mounting single drives alongside the raid stuff
11:20:45 <MrMobodies> sorry
11:20:59 <_mamalala> but for those you don't need raid
11:21:09 <MrMobodies> no of course not
11:21:19 <_mamalala> in which case any extra controller inbetween is just a bottleneck
11:21:43 <MrMobodies> I have brought a quad port port yet to go in to replace the 2 port sata I think that's why I had it set like that
11:21:59 <_mamalala> but then again, we are talking about raid
11:22:06 <_mamalala> so....
11:22:26 <_mamalala> you have you $controller that "manages" a raid
11:22:28 <MrMobodies> raid and single drives (but you are right it would be a bottleneck when accessing them on one channel)
11:22:52 <_mamalala> now that controller fails, and you can not get a spare
11:22:53 <MrMobodies> One controller 6x 256gb ssd's 3 per bank
11:23:04 <MrMobodies> Okay... data lost
11:23:19 <_mamalala> ... and you think that his is acceptable?
11:23:26 <_mamalala> *this
11:23:46 <MrMobodies> It is not an ideal world I live in
11:23:51 <_mamalala> compare to a software raid
11:24:00 <MrMobodies> It is not acceptable but I try and plan for it
11:24:04 <_mamalala> where all you have to do is to connect the disks
11:24:12 <MrMobodies> It is for personal use not business
11:24:21 <MrMobodies> You mean have them single?
11:24:25 <MrMobodies> and span
11:24:26 <_mamalala> and that is where you are wrong
11:24:47 <MrMobodies> ok what is it that I am doing wrong?
11:25:19 <_mamalala> slower (if any) acces to data on the raid > no access to the data
11:26:21 <_mamalala> given modern cpu's, and the limitations of disks, any software raid that can give you the data is far superior to any hardware raid that just fucks up
11:26:22 <MrMobodies> Slower access to data on the raid (Raid 0?) no access to data (Raid 5) if it goes wrong?
11:26:34 <_mamalala> raid-0 is not raid
11:26:56 <_mamalala> the hint is in the "r" part of it
11:26:58 <MrMobodies> okay mirror
11:27:10 <_mamalala> that would be raid-1
11:27:20 <MrMobodies> sorry oops
11:27:38 <MrMobodies> no mirror but stripe without parity
11:27:57 <MrMobodies> It mentions Raid 0 on the controller but that means stripe without parity
11:28:17 <MrMobodies> and not a Raid
11:28:22 <_mamalala> no, raid-0 is just a mirror, no striping
11:28:36 <_mamalala> ah, sorry
11:28:43 <_mamalala> that is raid-1
11:28:59 <_mamalala> raid-0 has no redundancy
11:29:04 <MrMobodies> nope
11:29:12 <MrMobodies> quick though
11:29:14 <_mamalala> so it is not R in raid
11:29:29 <_mamalala> but in any case
11:29:39 <MrMobodies> redudant array of inexpensive drives but no so some are expensive
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11:29:53 <_mamalala> any raid that goes tits up if the controller fails is shit
11:30:20 <MrMobodies> I brought a of those MMegaraid 1600 in 2007
11:30:22 <MrMobodies> one of them failed
11:30:28 <MrMobodies> a piece of metal got on the board
11:30:31 <MrMobodies> and shorted it
11:30:43 <MrMobodies> not it had a battery thing I pulled out
11:30:51 <MrMobodies> put it in the other
11:31:00 <MrMobodies> and it stores the configuration
11:31:09 <_mamalala> since every vendor decides to do their own proprietary shit on raid, any such controller is worthless, in my opinion
11:31:13 <MrMobodies> I think it was labelled Dallas
11:31:35 <_mamalala> after all, i value my data, and i want to be independant of any any vendor to access it
11:31:36 <MrMobodies> I once reversed the SCSI cables across and it automatically reversed it
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11:32:11 <_mamalala> MrMobodies: that is not possible with scsi
11:32:35 <_mamalala> each scsi unit has it's own id, the cable has no influence over it
11:33:21 <_mamalala> in fact, the scsi id of any device is set on the device itself
11:34:42 <MrMobodies> here it is
11:34:43 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/R0FFrbU.jpg
11:34:54 <MrMobodies> The Dallas chip stores all the config on it
11:35:11 <MrMobodies> and can be moved between controllers as I did and saved me some work on that occasion
11:35:28 <_mamalala> so?
11:35:30 <MrMobodies> I think it might have a battery in there too which can also go flat and stop working
11:35:47 <_mamalala> the scsi id's of any device on the bus are set by the device, always
11:36:02 <MrMobodies> goes at the lowest speed
11:36:15 <_mamalala> that dallas chip look like the usual RTC's of the time
11:36:43 <_mamalala> what speed? speed has nothing to do with the ID
11:37:07 <MrMobodies> I see a point, a lot things can go wrong with them.
11:37:27 <_mamalala> "them" what?
11:37:33 <MrMobodies> raid controllers
11:38:14 <_mamalala> yes... best not to use them nowdays.... same as the usual snake-oil
11:39:31 <MrMobodies> With the performance and size not really needed like they were many years ago
11:40:05 <MrMobodies> When I brough my W700 in 2008
11:40:10 <DHess_US> I have been underwhelmed by software RAID solutions which should have been better performing. RAIDZ might be an exception but even there, it has been slower for me.
11:40:25 <_mamalala> and especially when igonoring all these fancy buzzwords
11:40:27 <MrMobodies> they offered to put the two drives in raid and of course I said no way I want them single
11:40:44 <MrMobodies> buzzwords, I like that
11:41:07 <DHess_US> And something like an Areca has a lot of extra flexibility like being able to migrate between RAID levels and stripe widths while online.
11:41:43 <_mamalala> DHess_US: yes, software raid takes some cpu cycles ... but it is software, so you can transfer it anywhere ... unlike hardware controller, which lock you in, and if they go, you data goes
11:41:45 <DHess_US> So you can more easily test the performance of different configurations.
11:42:56 <_mamalala> and frankly, what do modern xeons have? like 24 cores or so? who gives a shit about one core used for the raid?
11:43:06 <DHess_US> Something I never used on the Areca I have is that it supports sector translation so for instance Windows XP can use 16TB instead of 2TB volumes.
11:44:00 <MrMobodies> https://www.areca.com.tw/chinaweb/products/pcie.htm I see it has an IOP333 in there
11:44:03 <MrMobodies> on your Areca
11:44:20 <_mamalala> i mean, personally, being able to read my data independanbtly of any fancy hardware is way more important to me that a few kb/s gaines by some strange hw chip ...
11:44:41 <DHess_US> IOP332 on my 1210 and IOP333 on the 1220 I just bought.
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11:45:02 <_mamalala> and lets not forgeet that most of the time raids are used with physical disks, and not some ssd's
11:45:36 <MrMobodies> I think it worked well and the latencies were lower
11:45:41 <_mamalala> but then, what to expect if people think that "cloud" is a good idea ...
11:45:46 <MrMobodies> but it was just an experiment I was trying
11:45:49 <DHess_US> My 4 x 750GB RAID5 is currently sad. One of the drives I had to replace with a WD Green and it sucks for performance.
11:46:19 <MrMobodies> oh
11:46:43 <DHess_US> Old RAID controllers like the Areca I have will work with SSDs of course but hold back performance. Newer RAID cards handle SSD speeds much better.
11:47:20 <MrMobodies> I did notice some performance difference inbetween controllers
11:47:31 <DHess_US> I've never used anything faster than the Areca I have.
11:48:04 <DHess_US> It will stream RAID5 writes while maxing out the disk performance so 450MB/sec
11:48:10 <_mamalala> DHess_US: and given the physical lines exposed by modern cpu's i'm sure that there is little drawback when using software raid, for the purpose at hand
11:48:11 <MrMobodies> I think it is that IOP333 in there I have read it has a good reputation but they were expensive years ago
11:48:40 <DHess_US> _mamalala, except for the loss in flexibility and more difficult operating.
11:48:55 <_mamalala> DHess_US: lol wut?
11:48:59 <DHess_US> I've been playing with that on a spare system in Linux and FreeBSD
11:49:15 <MrMobodies> played with any fancy network cards on Freedbsd?
11:49:25 <DHess_US> _mamalala, often cannot boot. Cannot migrate. etc.
11:50:04 <_mamalala> boot from a raid, how? unless the bios is aware of any raid?
11:50:16 <DHess_US> Well, that's the point.
11:50:55 <DHess_US> Windows can boot from software RAID 1 which is interesting.
11:50:59 <_mamalala> and yes, hw raid cards _may_ allow that, but that gets us back to the initial problem...
11:51:00 <MrMobodies> I noticed sometimes on certain bioses they don't show up on the boot order or the boot order gets ignored and boots from the controller.
11:51:09 <DHess_US> Linux and BSD can boot, barely, from various software RAID configurations.
11:51:16 <_mamalala> linux can too.... well, grub, that is
11:51:24 <MrMobodies> fakeraid?
11:51:43 <MrMobodies> with the sil31xx series controllers
11:51:44 <DHess_US> Areca just exposes the RAID volumes as drives so the BIOS just picks as usual.
11:51:51 <MrMobodies> that is good
11:51:55 <DHess_US> My other RAID cards don't do it nearly as well.
11:52:26 <MrMobodies> I had a few scsi controllers that did that
11:52:43 <_mamalala> DHess_US: how do you read data from the disks if you don't have the Areca controller?
11:52:44 <MrMobodies> I think it was an Adaptec
11:53:07 <DHess_US> I've had SCSI controllers which did it both ways. Some only allow booting from the first device and some let the BIOS pick.
11:53:19 <DHess_US> _mamalala, buy a second Areca controller.
11:53:54 <DHess_US> And I don't remember but I think an Areca mirror can be used separately.
11:53:59 <MrMobodies> I just remembered.... I have an old Adaptec 16bit isa 1 scsi 50 pin and it has a Zilog Z80 on there
11:54:06 <MrMobodies> I'll try and find it tomorrow
11:54:15 <MrMobodies> I think that was a raid controller
11:54:16 <DHess_US> ha. I have a pair of PCI flashpoint controllers.
11:54:24 <MrMobodies> oh yes Highpoint
11:54:32 <_mamalala> ok, let me rephrase it then, because it seemed to have flown by ... how do you read data from the disks if you don't have an Areca controller?
11:55:04 <DHess_US> And sitting right here, a PCI SCSI Symbios Logic controller which I will be using again.
11:55:14 <MrMobodies> me? So it read data I must have an Areca controller?
11:55:15 <DHess_US> That one goes to my 3.5" MO drive.
11:55:36 <MrMobodies> I got one of those Symbios 8 bit ones that came with a scanner
11:57:26 <_mamalala> hmmm, i take it then that you don't read those disks at all
11:58:00 <MrMobodies> I don't understand the question... sorry I see I am not giving the right answers.
11:58:31 <_mamalala> it's not about the "right" answer
11:58:50 <_mamalala> it's about getting your data back
11:59:09 <MrMobodies> in that case, I won't getting any data back off my raid, and I accept that.
11:59:25 <_mamalala> if the only answer is "i just buy another one of the same controller", then that is a fail by default
11:59:27 <MrMobodies> I am screwed and that is it
11:59:31 <MrMobodies> no acceptable
11:59:50 <MrMobodies> well I may not have the luxury
12:00:05 <_mamalala> and that defeats the whole purpose of having a raid in the first place, in my opinion
12:00:06 <MrMobodies> of pulling that Dallas chip out and putting it in te other none there to do that
12:00:21 <MrMobodies> aaaahhhh yeess
12:00:35 <MrMobodies> no point in raid it can go wrong in ways that defeat the whole purpose
12:01:12 <_mamalala> well, if more disks fail than what the raid level allows for, yes
12:01:22 <_mamalala> but other than that, it should be recoverable
12:01:40 <_mamalala> and that includes fancy controllers no longer being available
12:02:19 <MrMobodies> Ah so for it to be reliable, it should follow a standard and be readable by any controller
12:02:20 <_mamalala> no point in having redundancy in your drives, while having the single point of failure that is the controller
12:02:45 <MrMobodies> That is a very good point
12:03:00 <MrMobodies> considering no battery SRAMs to pull out anymore
12:03:18 <_mamalala> after all, one can always swap in a different drive in the raid, regardless of make and model, as long as it is big enough .... but that's not possible with the controller
12:04:27 <MrMobodies> sorry I didn't understand what you were saying at first
12:04:35 <_mamalala> no worries
12:04:45 <MrMobodies> I have a language disorder that affects the way I interpret language
12:04:58 <_mamalala> after all, chat is just text, and doesnt convey stuff that well
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12:05:34 <MrMobodies> I do like fancy things for to play with
12:05:38 <MrMobodies> like this network card
12:05:45 <MrMobodies> https://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/Alteon/tigonbk.pdf
12:05:52 <MrMobodies> I have four of those in my router
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12:06:15 <_mamalala> well, we all do, no questions ... but playing around with stuff is different to things that are important
12:06:20 <MrMobodies> I don't think it would handle multi gigabit broadband though
12:07:14 <_mamalala> well, you already get a big problem if you want, for example, a 10gb connection in your pc ... it's just not really possible, at least not sustained
12:07:32 <_mamalala> the pci-whatever slots just do not provide the banfwidth
12:07:37 <_mamalala> *bandwidth
12:07:50 <MrMobodies> no I would have to find a board capable and 10gb nics
12:08:05 <_mamalala> and a cpu that can do it
12:08:39 <MrMobodies> I know there were Cavium ones with crypto stuff on it but it seems to be closed source at the moment
12:09:04 <_mamalala> well, the basic math is pretty simple
12:09:27 <_mamalala> lets assume that any x86 cpu can do any instruction in one cycle ...
12:09:32 <_mamalala> which it can't
12:09:52 <MrMobodies> I am listening
12:09:58 <_mamalala> and now lets say we have 2.5 ghz as a clock for the cores in that chip
12:10:19 <MrMobodies> yep
12:10:19 <_mamalala> so, for 10gb network you need four cores ... at least
12:10:33 <MrMobodies> yeah I see
12:10:41 <_mamalala> that is, with no inter-proc comms, or anything, just the bare metal speed
12:11:05 <_mamalala> and even then, it would be just passing through data, not doing anything at all on it
12:11:07 <DHess_US> Replacing a WD Black drive (an old RAID compatible one, new WD Black drives are not RAID compatible) with a WD Green really screwed up performance. :(
12:11:32 <DHess_US> At least 10 times slower.
12:11:48 <DHess_US> Well, 1/10th as fast, or worse.
12:11:55 <_mamalala> now, even the simplest of filters would mean you need a multiple of clock cycles ... if that nasty x86 could even do one thing per cycle
12:12:08 <MrMobodies> I learn something new here everyday and now when I look for a Raid controller I will remember you... try and find one that I transfer the drives to other controllers
12:12:21 <MrMobodies> without a problem
12:12:23 <_mamalala> so, no, efficient 10gb stuff is just not possible with general purpose x86 crap
12:12:51 <_mamalala> you will not find such a controller
12:12:52 <DHess_US> _mamalala, that is not strictly true. The PFSense guys tested 10G hardware a few years ago and could get full line speed performance with the right standard motherboards.
12:13:18 <_mamalala> because every manufacturer thinks they are better than anyone else and does prop shit
12:13:58 <DHess_US> The test results are on the PFSense and FreeBSD forums. If you search, you can find out what hardware is required.
12:14:05 <_mamalala> DHess_US: well, yes, but what could they actuially do with the data flowing through? other than just a basic copy i doubt very much
12:14:07 <DHess_US> So like PCIex8 slots, etc.
12:14:23 <MrMobodies> lots of throughput
12:14:35 <DHess_US> PFSense (FreeBSD) uses a stateful firewall so actually quite a lot of rule filtering worked just fine.
12:14:39 <MrMobodies> and DMA assist stuff
12:14:57 <DHess_US> That's why stateful firewalls are essentially free. Firewalls are stateful to make them *faster*.
12:15:41 <MrMobodies> I remember my first firewall, it was terrible.. it was Netgear
12:15:49 <MrMobodies> FVL328 I think
12:15:58 <MrMobodies> I don't think that was stateful
12:16:36 <DHess_US> In a stateful firewall/router, the incoming connection only has to go through the rules for filtering and forwarding once which creates a state. After that, a hash looks in the state table and the rules no longer have to be evaluated for that connection.
12:16:39 <_mamalala> DHess_US: ok, pci-x8 ... which one? i'm sure i couldn't be better that 5.0
12:16:53 <_mamalala> which makes it about 30 gt/s
12:17:36 <_mamalala> now include protocol overhead for the bus itself ... then add all the nasty ip stuff
12:17:59 <DHess_US> I don't remember the details but I know that found commodity hardware which could do it.
12:18:18 <MrMobodies> wouldn't offloading functions help for that sort of thing, if was working?
12:18:19 <DHess_US> Those cards support IP offloading and things even in FreeBSD.
12:18:23 <_mamalala> so yes, sure, you can do "some" 10 gb ethernet, if you like... just not much else, if you want to sustain that speed
12:18:43 <DHess_US> Sure, some. LIke full routing and filtering. How much more do you want?
12:19:02 <_mamalala> we had the same problem back in the day when ARCNet was a thing
12:19:50 <_mamalala> there was a theoretical limit on the cable, which was almost impossible to get to, because of all the overhead, even on "modern" 286 cpu's
12:20:00 <_mamalala> and arcnet was only 1MHz
12:20:04 <MrMobodies> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCNET
12:20:09 <MrMobodies> similar to Token Ring
12:21:27 <MrMobodies> I know in that Alteon document they speak of the overhead of the bus and how they have logic on there like for byte alignment and bus tuning.
12:22:33 <_mamalala> yea, there are always methods to optimize stuff ... but me being me, i just go by the raw cycles
12:23:26 <_mamalala> DHess_US: well, i like to see full routing and filtering done on a 10gb trunk by just the x86 cpu
12:23:49 <_mamalala> that is, with enough cycles left to do something useful
12:24:28 <_mamalala> there is a reason why we have dedicated equipment for such tasks
12:24:46 <_mamalala> and i mean _really_ dedicated
12:24:54 <MrMobodies> on ASICS and FPGA's
12:25:23 <_mamalala> yes ... but those aint x86 chips
12:25:53 <MrMobodies> dedicated equipment with x86 chips.... sorry misunderstood again
12:26:17 <_mamalala> meh, i probably wasn't clear
12:26:29 <_mamalala> lets put it this way:
12:27:27 <_mamalala> to meaningfully handle 10gb traffic on a regular x86 based computer, even a server, is near impossible for a single machine
12:28:07 <MrMobodies> it wouldn't make it near 10gb traffic
12:28:11 <_mamalala> it starts with with the bus bandwidth, then the cpu type, and the software, etc
12:28:28 <_mamalala> heck, even 1gb sustained is really hard to do
12:28:43 <_mamalala> and that is why there is dedicated hardware for these things
12:28:56 <MrMobodies> The Alteon Acenis can only do 660mbps, and higher with jumbo frames
12:29:29 <MrMobodies> but that was in 1997
12:30:24 <MrMobodies> what about 10gb switches, wouldn't they have the backbone and logic to deal with the throughput
12:30:47 <_mamalala> also keep in mind that these dedicated parts are usually using RISC type cores
12:31:03 <_mamalala> sure, they do
12:31:09 <MrMobodies> yes, Acenic tigon 2 I was talking about Dual mips 4000 modified core
12:32:03 <_mamalala> but usually they dont route the 10gb traffic 1:1, that is, from one port to another ... but splt it up/combine it togethwer, from/to the connected machines
12:32:41 <_mamalala> after all, that's what they are there for
12:33:00 <MrMobodies> multiplexed and demulitplexed
12:34:00 <MrMobodies> I know NX3031 has a single ARM 266 risc cpu in there and that was used the HP 375t quad port and a 10gbp nic I haven't seen yet.
12:34:48 <_mamalala> ahhh, ARM ... the most successful cpu ever
12:35:05 <_mamalala> started back then with the BBC micro
12:35:32 <MrMobodies> like this one
12:35:33 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/5fm0jA9.jpg
12:35:40 <_mamalala> it wasn't an ARM based machine itself, but ARM was developed on it
12:36:06 <_mamalala> then came the Archimedes ... and then the RISC-PC
12:36:23 <_mamalala> and nowdays ARM is pretty much everywhere
12:36:43 <_mamalala> it is by far the most used CPU architecture in the world
12:36:47 <MrMobodies> I remembered those
12:36:57 <MrMobodies> some had a 486 cpu inside
12:37:05 <MrMobodies> for an emulator
12:37:18 <MrMobodies> I think that was in 1995 I came across one
12:37:34 <MrMobodies> in a school and they playing Wolfenstein 3d on it
12:38:01 <MrMobodies> is this a good design though for a network card
12:38:02 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/3emhnSV.jpg
12:38:15 <MrMobodies> I am facsinated by this stuff
12:39:02 <MrMobodies> going for some tea
12:39:22 <_mamalala> have a good one
12:39:50 <MrMobodies> ooh there is something you said
12:40:04 <MrMobodies> 10 gbps 4x 2.5ghz
12:40:22 <MrMobodies> that network card 66mhz 660mbps
12:40:44 <MrMobodies> 2x 66mhz mips 4000 but one read one right
12:41:01 <MrMobodies> seems to be a pattern
12:41:02 <_mamalala> yes, with a shitload of stuff on it that offloads things
12:42:36 <_mamalala> like, desrializing, to but single bity into bytes ... so you can have, for example, 8 megabits in and get 1 mbyte out
12:42:47 <_mamalala> (for a 8-bit word)
12:44:54 <_mamalala> and even if we assume that a 10gb card deserializes 32bits .... that is over 300 mhz with 32 bit words
12:45:20 <_mamalala> now add the pci-x bus protocol, so lets make that what, 350 or 400?
12:45:48 <_mamalala> next you have the CISC architecture of the cpu ....
12:46:27 <_mamalala> lets be conservative and say four clock cycles to do something half-arsed useful like moving shit around
12:46:55 <_mamalala> and suddenly you are at 1.6 ghz ... for one way
12:47:21 <_mamalala> obviously you want to magle all that data, so you need memeory access
12:47:33 <_mamalala> etc, etc...
12:48:14 <_mamalala> so, again, yes, you can do "something" 10gb on a x86... just not very usefull if you want it sustained
12:48:20 <_mamalala> and preferably low latency
12:49:08 <_mamalala> because at these speeds, transferring shit between threads means several cycles penalty, which is a huge delay at those speeds
12:49:17 <MrMobodies> so if it has to move data between memory it will add to the overhead.
12:49:49 <MrMobodies> and interrupt the transfer for anything huge
12:50:04 <_mamalala> yes, if it has to do anything outside of just copying data (which can be cache-bound), it becomes really slow
12:53:03 <_mamalala> if you have code that fits into the cahce, and your data packets fit in the cahce, and all your variables, etc, fit in the cahce as well, then you can get the maximum performance
12:53:23 <_mamalala> but that just isn't the case for 90+ percent of the time
12:54:16 <_mamalala> and even if it fits in the cache, physically, but you need to have another core to access the same data, you already get a penalty, because caches are not shared that way for a good reason ...
12:54:40 <DHess_US> x86 is actually unusually good at copying memory.
12:54:46 <MrMobodies> is this to do with buffer alignment?
12:54:53 <MrMobodies> as well
12:55:14 <MrMobodies> on the bus I mean
12:55:17 <_mamalala> in such cases, not really
12:55:40 <MrMobodies> cpu, one read one write.
12:56:03 <_mamalala> well, but cpu isn't just a single entity anymore
12:56:08 <MrMobodies> caches are not shared, they refered to the ones that do onthe arm 4000 as scratchpads?
12:56:21 <_mamalala> now you have what, 4, 6, 8, 20, etc. cores
12:56:48 <_mamalala> core 1 has data, core 2 wants to handle it ...
12:57:02 <_mamalala> caches are not shared, as you said,
12:57:31 <_mamalala> so even if no external mem is needed, the data needs to be transferred somehow
12:57:54 <_mamalala> so there goes your fancy ghz clocked cpu ...
12:58:23 <_mamalala> you can see a similar effect when you look at multithreaded apps
12:58:27 <MrMobodies> 2 cpu's trying access the same resource?
12:58:38 <MrMobodies> at the same time
12:59:13 <MrMobodies> I know the hyperthreading where the clock is reduced on activity
12:59:19 <_mamalala> if the threads act on different data, etc., you get a nice speedup ... but if they have to share some common stuff, the gain is much, much smaller
12:59:43 <DHess_US> It's actually worse than that because a conflict occurs if two CPUs try to share the same *cache line* whether they want the same data in that cache line or not.
13:00:21 <_mamalala> video compression is a good example ... it is really well usable for multithreading, because each thread acts on a seperate part independently
13:00:25 <DHess_US> So you can end up with an entire cache line bouncing back and forth.
13:01:20 <_mamalala> but if you want to apply some filters on an image, for example, it breaks down because each stage needs the output of the previous stage, which can be the results of stages on another core, etc...
13:02:26 <MrMobodies> the pipeline for that resource is already in use
13:02:56 <_mamalala> in simple terms ... yes
13:04:19 <_mamalala> dave sometimes (unknowingly?) gives good examples for that when he talks about his video editing
13:05:06 <_mamalala> more threads and more memory are of limited use there, because so much stuff is interdependant on other stuff
13:05:10 <MrMobodies> I think he said something about preferring software rendering in modern cpu's being quicker
13:05:20 <_mamalala> yes
13:05:26 <_mamalala> that's another thing
13:05:51 <_mamalala> on paper, any modern GPU could render his videos in a fraction of the time, sure
13:06:23 <_mamalala> but ... one needs to transfer all the data to the gpu first, and then get the result back
13:06:39 <_mamalala> bus speeds are just not that good at the moment
13:06:47 <MrMobodies> more overhead on the bus
13:06:58 <MrMobodies> reminds me off overlay mode back 20 years ago
13:07:22 <MrMobodies> Wintv card -> AGP and the bus seemed slow when it was going
13:07:31 <_mamalala> so, while it could do some render much faster, just transfering data back & forth makes it slower compared to doing the thing on the cpu itself, which already may have the block of data in cache
13:08:07 <_mamalala> ahh, wintv ... the favourite tool of sat hackers ... that is, decrypting early nagra stuff :)
13:08:22 <MrMobodies> I remember that
13:08:27 <MrMobodies> niagra?
13:08:50 <_mamalala> regarding gpu and stuff ... just look at the old sgi machines
13:09:27 <_mamalala> the graphics "card" as such had laughable perfomrance ... but the whole system was extremely performant
13:09:32 <MrMobodies> the ones with the 40gbps packet switched bus
13:09:40 <_mamalala> they had really dedicated bus architectures, etc....
13:10:28 <_mamalala> there is a reason why modern gpu's have gigabytes of memory on board ...
13:10:45 <_mamalala> after all, you don't need that for just a frame buffer or some GL stuff
13:11:10 <MrMobodies> Like the 3D wildcard stuff and the IBM pallette dac framebuffers
13:11:12 <_mamalala> instead you push as much as you can on the GPU, so that it doens't have to access the bus
13:11:53 <_mamalala> imagine the most modern gpu chip, but with virtually no local memory
13:12:00 <MrMobodies> the controller doesn't have pull data from the ram
13:12:03 <_mamalala> it would be fucking slow
13:12:04 <MrMobodies> and make copies
13:12:43 <MrMobodies> aah onboard video
13:12:59 <MrMobodies> where they share part of the system memory
13:13:12 <_mamalala> haha, yea, or that
13:13:53 <MrMobodies> this seems to be the best night ever
13:14:05 <_mamalala> lol
13:14:09 <MrMobodies> You talk and I am enjoying it
13:14:23 <MrMobodies> everything you say I remember stuff
13:14:37 <MrMobodies> oh and I learnt something today Arcnet
13:15:09 <MrMobodies> and the problems with the Raid controllers and their egos, wanting to be better than others
13:15:51 <MrMobodies> I remembered 20 years ago
13:15:59 <MrMobodies> I'd have Wintv on
13:16:06 <MrMobodies> I'd be pixel editing
13:16:07 <_mamalala> haha, thanks
13:16:16 <MrMobodies> and I'd see parts of thre tv picture on acolour
13:16:26 <MrMobodies> I think it was pink
13:16:47 <_mamalala> that said, wanna hear some really crazy stuff regarding graphics cards?
13:16:58 <MrMobodies> oh please do
13:17:51 <_mamalala> back then, when i was young and hansome (nowdays i'm just and) .... i worked in a company that built boths for fairs and stuff
13:18:22 <_mamalala> so we decided we need some 3d stuff to have nice images from all the CAD data
13:18:45 <_mamalala> so, we got Softimage|3D ... and a special OpenGL card
13:19:12 <_mamalala> that card had what, 8 or 16 MB of memory ... it was like 20 or 30k bucks
13:19:25 <_mamalala> plus the software, another 20k bucks or so
13:19:30 <MrMobodies> its not this one is it?
13:19:32 <MrMobodies> http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/component/k2/item/512-accelgraphics-eclipse
13:19:42 <_mamalala> but it alloed us to do "realtime" 3D modelling
13:19:51 <_mamalala> no
13:20:40 <MrMobodies> sorry
13:20:42 <_mamalala> that "realtime" was basically some simple geometry with phong or gourard shading ... in flat colurs ... like 10 fps for a small scene
13:21:00 <_mamalala> actual rendering took 10 hours or so, at least
13:21:43 <MrMobodies> long time
13:21:51 <MrMobodies> do you remember what opengl card it was?
13:21:52 <_mamalala> gpu's from like 10 years ago produced superior results to that
13:22:06 <_mamalala> damn, not really, it's so long ago ...
13:22:28 <_mamalala> we used a "raptor" machine, a RISC thing that ran Windows NT
13:23:20 <_mamalala> it was a double.width, full length card
13:24:02 <_mamalala> the big selling point back then was that it did opengl
13:25:25 <_mamalala> it's just funny to see what we have today
13:25:46 <MrMobodies> from Deskstation?
13:26:04 <_mamalala> you buy a 200 bucks 3d card, and it delivers photorealitic, realtime 3d graphics
13:26:44 <_mamalala> back then we had that 20k+ card, which could barely do 640x480 in "flat" shading
13:26:46 <MrMobodies> and back then took 10 hours
13:26:56 <_mamalala> and realtime meant like 5fps or so
13:27:12 <MrMobodies> bilinear/trilinear filtering?
13:27:17 <_mamalala> lol
13:27:24 <_mamalala> there was no filtering
13:27:48 <_mamalala> only on the final render, if you enabled it
13:27:59 <_mamalala> but for the realtime stuff? nope
13:28:04 <MrMobodies> I misread that for a bit $20,000
13:28:29 <_mamalala> not misread, that's the correct sum
13:28:49 <MrMobodies> 20k+ meaning $20,000
13:28:53 <_mamalala> yes
13:29:52 <MrMobodies> I found something down a bootsale that was in the 1990's
13:30:00 <MrMobodies> I got in a box in the attic and it worked
13:30:02 <MrMobodies> http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/companies/item/534-intergraph-intense-3d-wildcat-4000-msmt556
13:30:24 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
13:30:25 <MrMobodies> I find it strange how the vga is on the pci bus and other one is on the agp side
13:30:52 <_mamalala> nice one
13:31:04 <MrMobodies> I ran tried to run Unrealtournament in Opengl and there would triangles
13:31:09 <MrMobodies> missing
13:31:10 <_mamalala> lol
13:31:32 <MrMobodies> it worked but triangles or the picture disappeared and reappeared on movement
13:32:03 <_mamalala> yes, because it ran out of memory :)
13:32:10 <_mamalala> (probably, i mean)
13:32:44 <MrMobodies> they'd be memory for other things no needed in the game
13:32:54 <_mamalala> just look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo3lUw9GUJA
13:33:05 <_mamalala> at the time, this was the best of the best
13:33:21 <_mamalala> for a quarter million dollars
13:33:27 <MrMobodies> I have seen that one
13:33:29 <MrMobodies> two years ago
13:33:37 <MrMobodies> that is the the one with the 40gbps switches bus
13:33:46 <MrMobodies> and delicated inferfaces on the connectors
13:33:57 <_mamalala> you modern average gpu is far, far better than that
13:34:20 <_mamalala> not to mention that nowdays your gpu has way more memory on board than the whole machine back then
13:34:33 <MrMobodies> like the quadros with bags of ram
13:35:32 <_mamalala> back then, for a regular PC, 1024x768 at true colour was hard to do, just 2d ...
13:35:50 <MrMobodies> GeForce 6800 Ultra with 35.20 GB/s
13:35:56 <MrMobodies> was coming close in 2004
13:36:06 <_mamalala> and here i sit, staring at a 4k display, fed by 100 euro 3d card, with all sorts of nifty 3d effects just for the desktop
13:36:48 <_mamalala> if one would try to translate that power back into those times, it probably would be many millions of dollares
13:37:18 <MrMobodies> now it can be brough on ebay cheap when it depreciates in value
13:37:31 <MrMobodies> if it turns up working
13:37:31 <_mamalala> yep
13:37:50 <_mamalala> one year old stuff goes for next to nothing there
13:38:18 <MrMobodies> HP375t £50 in 2017, 2019 £15
13:38:34 <_mamalala> just imagine ... that onyx in the video had 16gb of ram ...
13:38:57 <MrMobodies> I think he said it could go higher?
13:39:04 <MrMobodies> 48 gb just check
13:39:08 <_mamalala> maybe, dunno
13:39:12 <_mamalala> ah, ok
13:39:25 <_mamalala> i have 64gb, cost me like 300 bucks, new
13:40:16 <_mamalala> my silly cheap gpu has 6gb on board
13:40:17 <MrMobodies> oh on the Ony EBUS support for up to 16 gigabytes of
13:40:23 <_mamalala> gtx-1660
13:40:36 <MrMobodies> I am still using some old GPUs which I am still happy with
13:40:40 <MrMobodies> due for an upgrade
13:41:07 <MrMobodies> Quadro 3700 and 3800 and they have lasted me for many years
13:41:15 <_mamalala> it's just beyond silly how cheap all that stuff has become
13:41:16 <MrMobodies> not bending or breaking like the bigs one I had before
13:41:56 <MrMobodies> I put the the Geforce dual core 295 on a stilt and it still broke despite extra cooling
13:41:59 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
13:42:45 <MrMobodies> I think the weight on them cause problems over time especially when they don't have brackets
13:42:58 <MrMobodies> from the big heatsinks
13:43:14 <_mamalala> yeah, that's another thing
13:43:26 <_mamalala> stuff got so efficient nowdays
13:43:32 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
13:43:50 <_mamalala> imagine modern gpu performance done with parts from 20+ years ago
13:44:22 <_mamalala> probably could head a small housing block in deep winter :P
13:44:27 <_mamalala> *heat
13:46:19 <MrMobodies> That's like the 6800 Ultra
13:46:23 <MrMobodies> that got hot
13:46:31 <MrMobodies> I had a Leadtek A400 ultra
13:46:35 <MrMobodies> got it in 2005
13:46:39 <_mamalala> most modern smartphones have more processing power than that old onyx
13:46:40 <MrMobodies> and it broke down in 2010
13:47:20 <MrMobodies> makes the Psion Organiser look tiny
13:47:26 <_mamalala> haha
13:47:30 <MrMobodies> the one with the 68000 motorola
13:54:26 <_mamalala> ah well, need to get some sleep ... almost 4 am here now :P
13:54:44 <_mamalala> have a good day/night/whatever everyone
13:56:43 <Halcyon> Night _mamalala
13:59:10 <MrMobodies> oh goodnight
14:00:16 <MrMobodies> it's been lovely talking
14:01:00 <Halcyon> Time for another class of white wine I think. It's currently about 44 degrees C outside
14:01:08 <Halcyon> *glass
14:02:28 <MrMobodies> 44 degrees that is hot
14:02:38 <Halcyon> Yeh a bit on the warm side
14:02:52 <MrMobodies> a bit warm, I thought 30c was terrible in England in the summer
14:03:28 <Halcyon> 30 is a lovely day :)
14:03:40 <Halcyon> Sit outside, shorts, cold beverage, BBQ
14:04:13 <Halcyon> http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDN60901/IDN60901.94763.shtml
14:04:27 <Halcyon> Thank fuck for air conditioning I say, I couldn't sleep otherwise
14:06:03 <MrMobodies> I suppose you could make a cup of tea outside
14:06:08 <MrMobodies> without the kettle
14:06:22 <Halcyon> Heh
14:06:24 <MrMobodies> let it slowly heat up
14:08:58 <MrMobodies> there is a tune that reminds me of my old Scsi raid system in 2004
14:09:08 <MrMobodies> It is this song at the ending bit
14:09:10 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObjLb6ElTvs&feature=youtu.be&t=209
14:09:20 <MrMobodies> Chaka Khan feel for you
14:09:45 <MrMobodies> in reminds me high utilization and when it does it's burst writes
14:11:02 <MrMobodies> Megaraid Elite 1500 Scsi 2 controller, 8x Seagate 4.2gb drives
14:11:23 <MrMobodies> and they'd go abit mad on large transfers
14:32:10 <Halcyon> I probably shouldn't start migrating over to IPv6 while tipsy :P
14:34:18 <MrMobodies> while drunk?
14:34:53 <Halcyon> Well, not quite drunk
14:35:25 <MrMobodies> on my Pfsense router, I am going to plug a switch in just for that
14:35:34 <MrMobodies> so I can experiment and slowly migrate over
14:35:58 <Halcyon> Migrate over to IPv6 ?
14:36:30 <MrMobodies> slowly
14:36:49 <Halcyon> Well the idea would normally be to run both IPv4 and v6 concurrently
14:36:51 <MrMobodies> until the isp offers it
14:37:02 <Halcyon> I know that's what I'm going to have to do as things like my printer I'm pretty sure don't support IPv6
14:37:11 <MrMobodies> I would like separate them if I can
14:37:16 <MrMobodies> on different switches
14:37:26 <Halcyon> Well they are separate by nature of how they work
14:37:50 <Halcyon> IPv4 and IPv6 are two totally different networks which can't communicate with each other except through a bridge
14:38:07 <Halcyon> It's like having Ethernet and Token Ring at the same time
14:38:09 <MrMobodies> oh
14:38:22 <MrMobodies> I thought it did over the same nic
14:38:26 <Halcyon> It does
14:38:31 <Halcyon> But they are different protocols
14:38:46 <Halcyon> Just like you can have TCP/IP, NetBEUI, IPX/SPX on the same NIC
14:39:22 <Halcyon> But under that physical layer, they are totally separate things
14:39:51 <MrMobodies> NetBeui... I use to use that as I found it quicker for file sharing in the day
14:40:07 <MrMobodies> but then it didn't matter anymore as it got quicker
14:41:18 <coppice_> IPX/SPX could file share very fast too, but its not the protocols that made them fast. its that their stacks were polished a lot over time
14:41:36 <Halcyon> Yup
14:41:38 <MrMobodies> and less overhead?
14:42:05 <MrMobodies> oh stacks sorry
14:44:22 <MrMobodies> Have you ever used Squid on Pfsense?
14:44:27 <MrMobodies> and had problems with it
14:44:34 <Halcyon> It's not recommended
14:44:46 <Halcyon> I haven't personally tried it, nor do I have a need to
14:45:02 <Halcyon> I use DNS filtering
14:45:08 <MrMobodies> in 2.0.5 it worked fine, and in the later releases video playback was affected
14:45:19 <MrMobodies> 5 years ago it broke the DNS side of things
14:45:38 <MrMobodies> it did the same some days ago and broke the package manager when uninstalling it
14:45:58 * Ampera slobbers at Halcyon
14:46:12 <Ampera> I do use Squid on pfSense as a reverse proxy, MrMobodies
14:46:13 <Halcyon> Hey friend :)
14:46:41 <Ampera> how do Halcyon
14:46:48 <MrMobodies> and you haven't had a problem yet
14:46:52 <MrMobodies> maybe it is the way I set itup
14:47:12 <Halcyon> Not too bad, just slowly starting my IPv6 migration
14:47:15 <Ampera> What's your problem?
14:47:17 <Halcyon> I think I have my head around it now
14:47:24 <Ampera> I don't use it for its main purpose, only as a reverse proxy.
14:47:31 <Ampera> that's good Halcyon
14:48:53 <Ampera> All the paperwork's been signed for my job.
14:49:00 <Ampera> I definitely start Monday.
14:49:04 <Halcyon> Awesome :)
14:49:05 <Halcyon> Exciting
14:49:24 <MrMobodies> I think I used that once to access some routers through a tunnel but I made some rules eventually
14:49:25 <Halcyon> Woot, I have my IPv6 WAN IP
14:49:36 <MrMobodies> on different port numbers
14:49:47 <Ampera> Halcyon, which one
14:49:55 <Ampera> for the router?
14:49:58 <Halcyon> See if you can ping my router: 2403:5800:7101:4300:215:17ff:febc:a758
14:50:21 <Ampera> Halcyon, are you using IPv6?
14:50:23 <Ampera> er, pfSense
14:50:28 <Halcyon> Yes
14:50:39 <Ampera> you need to let ICMPv6 ping requests through in the firewall
14:50:50 <Halcyon> As far as I know I am... standby
14:50:52 <Ampera> but you should be able to ping me
14:50:53 <Ampera> er
14:51:13 <Ampera> 2001:470:8a68::dead:beef
14:51:25 <Halcyon> Try that, I just made a few rule modifications
14:51:40 <Ampera> also that IP address seems strange, your router normally is at the lowest IP in a range
14:52:04 <Halcyon> Yeh I can't get to you
14:52:06 <Ampera> still no
14:52:17 <Ampera> I know my IPv6 is publicly accessible.
14:52:38 <Halcyon> It's using SLAAC so the IP is based off the MAC address of the NIX
14:52:39 <Halcyon> NIC
14:52:45 <Halcyon> Which is why it's not the "lowest"
14:53:00 <Ampera> routers aren't normally configured using SLAAC afaik
14:53:40 <Halcyon> Well that's one of several physical interfaces on my router
14:53:40 <Ampera> also remember that your LAN and WAN interfaces will have separate IP addresses
14:53:48 <Halcyon> My WAN IP is 2001:470:8a68::dead:beef
14:53:50 <Halcyon> Dammit
14:53:53 <Ampera> lol
14:53:59 <Halcyon> 2403:5800:7000:143:44c2:cd9b:64d6:3289
14:54:22 <Ampera> no response
14:54:26 <Halcyon> Hmmm
14:54:38 <MrMobodies> PING 2001:470:8a68::dead:beef(2001:470:8a68::dead:beef) 56 data bytes
14:54:38 <MrMobodies> 64 bytes from 2001:470:8a68::dead:beef: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=80.0 ms
14:54:38 <MrMobodies> 64 bytes from 2001:470:8a68::dead:beef: icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=97.5 ms
14:54:44 <Halcyon> It's being blocked. Standby, I can see you hitting the firewall
14:54:54 <Ampera> is the firewall rule on the WAN or LAN interface
14:54:58 <Ampera> as it should be on the WAN interface
14:55:00 <Halcyon> The default deny rule is catching it
14:55:30 <Ampera> https://prnt.sc/qvwtbz
14:55:38 <Ampera> this is how I have mine set up if you'd want to see
14:55:53 <Halcyon> OK try that
14:56:07 <Ampera> both no
14:56:12 <Halcyon> FFS
14:56:22 <Ampera> wait, ping me for a bit
14:56:31 <Ampera> I want to see if outgoing is being blocked for whatever reason
14:56:39 <Ampera> actually no it wouldn't
14:56:40 <Ampera> nvm
14:57:03 <Halcyon> I still can't ping you
14:57:07 <Halcyon> Mmmm...
14:57:13 <Ampera> let me see if another service can
14:57:51 <Ampera> https://prnt.sc/qvwtva
14:57:53 <Halcyon> I have both a /56 and /64 range assigned to me
14:58:03 <Halcyon> I'm assuming the /56 is the "WAN" side of things
14:58:07 <Ampera> I have a /48 range and a /64 range, but only use the /48
14:58:08 <Ampera> nope
14:58:14 <Ampera> that means you have two mutually exclusive ranges
14:58:16 <Ampera> you can use either
14:58:17 <Halcyon> And /64 is for SLAAC ("internal" use)
14:58:19 <Ampera> but you can only use one
14:58:37 <Ampera> all LAN interfaces need to be /64 for SLAAC
14:58:40 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
14:59:00 <Ampera> but if you're given two ranges like I am, your /64 is a different range to your /56
14:59:25 <Ampera> but since your /56 can have multiple /64's you'd want to use that
14:59:57 <Halcyon> Which is what I am using
15:00:11 <Ampera> you'll want something like this: https://prnt.sc/qvwuff
15:00:26 <Ampera> my IPv6 setup is unique since I'm using a tunnel broker, so my WAN side of things might be completely irrelveant
15:00:35 <Ampera> *irrelevant
15:00:51 <Ampera> but I can say my WAN device was given a static IP address outside my ranges.
15:01:33 <Ampera> my interface settings in DMs, Halcyon
15:01:48 <Halcyon> Standby, I broke something
15:01:57 <Halcyon> Existing states work, but I can't get to anything new
15:09:39 <Ampera> Halcyon,
15:09:43 <Halcyon> Mmm>
15:09:44 <Halcyon> ?
15:09:48 <Ampera> I'm getting pings
15:09:50 <Ampera> on both IPs
15:09:59 <Halcyon> Yeh but I'm getting no internet, well kind of
15:10:05 <Ampera> well ping me
15:10:35 <Halcyon> Yep works
15:10:40 <Halcyon> But my desktop machine is having issues
15:10:48 <Halcyon> But that's on IPv4 only
15:14:23 <Halcyon> What do you have under Interface > (LAN) > IPv6 Prefix ID
15:14:24 <Halcyon> ?
15:15:41 <Ampera> standby
15:16:14 <Ampera> Halcyon, nothing, presumably since I use a static IPv6
15:16:43 <Ampera> lol, Halcyon, I just did something hilarious
15:16:50 <Halcyon> Mmm?
15:16:56 <Ampera> https://prnt.sc/qvwyic
15:17:07 <Halcyon> I can't get to that site
15:17:17 <Halcyon> I have no idea why
15:17:23 <Ampera> out of curiosity, try https://amperaa.net
15:17:56 <Halcyon> I can resolve it, can't get to anything
15:18:15 <Ampera> reason I ask is because it's IPv6 compatible
15:18:23 <Ampera> you just have just fucked your IPv4 maybe
15:18:31 <Halcyon> I haven't touched v4
15:18:37 <Halcyon> I literally haven't changed a thing
15:19:03 <Ampera> if only I had setup ipv4.amperaa.net
15:19:10 <Ampera> btw, if you need an ipv6 only test site, ipv6.amperaa.net is one
15:19:28 <Ampera> do ping -4 amperaa.net
15:19:36 <Halcyon> I'd like to work out what's going on with IPv4 first
15:19:44 <Ampera> that's why I said ping v4
15:19:59 <Halcyon> I can't ping anything
15:25:38 * Ampera pings T3sl4
15:26:05 <Halcyon> I'm going to reboot this router. Back soon
15:26:08 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
15:30:15 <steve30> hi
15:31:22 Join: MrMobodies ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:31:41 <MrMobodies> Hello, not good, I turned the IPV6 back on and it went into a reboot loop
15:32:09 <MrMobodies> reinstalled an another SSD, put it in loaded config.
15:32:39 <Ampera> MrMobodies, you're not Halcyon, what's happened with you
15:33:02 <MrMobodies> I wanted to run some experiments
15:33:04 <MrMobodies> too
15:33:13 <MrMobodies> and it went wrong
15:34:04 <MrMobodies> Halycon isn't here?
15:34:34 <Ampera> No, his setup ate shit too
15:34:55 <MrMobodies> a coindcidence
15:37:54 <MrMobodies> Tomorrow I am going to clone that drive so if it happens again it shouldn't take long.
15:38:12 <steve30> I've got an amiga group meeting today
15:39:27 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:39:38 <Halcyon> Yep, so now I remember why I gave up on IPv6 before
15:39:41 <MrMobodies> It looks that the glitch has returned
15:39:47 <steve30> Yay, a toasted sammich :)
15:39:48 <MrMobodies> not resolving and dns queries
15:39:52 <Halcyon> For whatever reason, as soon as I enable IPv6, it fucks IPv4
15:39:58 <Halcyon> Even though I literally change nothing
15:40:03 <MrMobodies> mine went into a reboot loop
15:40:09 <MrMobodies> I turned it back on that's all
15:40:53 <Halcyon> So *shrug*
15:40:55 <Ampera> Mosaic
15:41:30 <Halcyon> I'll wait until the next version of pfSense is out and blow it away completely and set it up again from scratch. There is obviously something which is causing everything to fall over
15:41:31 <Ampera> lol
15:41:40 <Ampera> I had no problems
15:41:45 <MrMobodies> the dns has stopped working
15:41:45 <Ampera> https://prnt.sc/qvwyic
15:41:48 <Ampera> this is for you Halcyon btw
15:41:51 <MrMobodies> It worked last night
15:41:53 <Halcyon> Lucky you
15:42:51 <MrMobodies> I might have go off and investigate that issue more
15:43:03 * steve30 hugs Halcyon
15:43:25 <MrMobodies> going to test an earlier backup and see if it is some I do
15:44:06 <Halcyon> I'm still having issues, no idea what is fucked
15:44:12 <Halcyon> I literally reverted back to the way it was
15:44:28 <Ampera> Halcyon, you're like my grandfather
15:44:32 <Ampera> you just touch something and it blows up
15:44:42 <Halcyon> There is no logical sense to it
15:44:47 <Halcyon> Everything says it should work, but it doesn't
15:46:53 <steve30> mmm, that coffee was nice :)
15:47:27 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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15:57:03 Quit: PsySc0rpi0n ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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16:05:40 <Halcyon> Yep, that literally fucked my config
16:06:00 <Halcyon> IPv4 works for a bit, resolves DNS for a few seconds then falls over again
16:10:37 <Halcyon> I've stripped it back to basics and will try it again
16:16:58 <Halcyon> Ampera, can you see if you can ping 2403:5800:7101:4300:215:17ff:febc:a75b
16:20:18 <Ampera> Halcyon, nope
16:20:54 <Ampera> may I suggest you set your LAN interface to static, and then set it at the bottom of your range.
16:21:05 <Ampera> set it to /64 in the interface settings
16:21:32 <Halcyon> What I can't get my head around is I have multiple LAN interfaces
16:21:43 <Ampera> Each gets one IPv6 /64 range.
16:21:53 <Halcyon> I don't fully understand the prefix ID
16:22:19 <Halcyon> Is that only for tracked interfaces?
16:22:28 <Ampera> Where is that?
16:22:30 <Ampera> could you give a screenshot
16:22:50 <Halcyon> IPv6 config type > Track Interface
16:23:02 <Ampera> no the prefix ID
16:23:13 <Ampera> oh
16:23:14 <Ampera> nvm
16:23:16 <Halcyon> In the WAN settings
16:23:31 <Ampera> alright, let's get to the basics
16:23:39 <Ampera> how does your ISP supply your WAN address
16:23:49 <Halcyon> 2403:5800:7101:4300::/56
16:23:49 <Halcyon> 2403:5800:7000:143::/64
16:23:59 <Ampera> so static?
16:24:08 <Halcyon> Well they are statically assigned via dhcpV6
16:24:12 <Halcyon> Same as v4
16:24:20 <Ampera> so then set your WAN interface to DHCPv6
16:24:24 <Ampera> and then set it to /56
16:24:25 <Halcyon> Which I have
16:24:34 <Ampera> alright, and your WAN IP is
16:24:44 <Halcyon> 2403:5800:7000:143:44c2:cd9b:64d6:3289
16:25:11 <Ampera> something about that seems fishy
16:25:40 <Halcyon> Under Interfaces > WAN I have the following options set...
16:25:42 <Ampera> not only that
16:25:52 <Halcyon> DHCPv6 PD size: 56
16:25:53 <Ampera> that /56 you've given doesn't look like a /56
16:26:01 <Ampera> nvm it does
16:26:02 <Ampera> ignore me
16:26:09 <Halcyon> Send IPv6 prefix hint and Do not wait for a RA both enabled
16:26:26 <Halcyon> Then there are some advanced DHCP settings which are apparently specific to my provider
16:26:37 <Ampera> alright, now
16:26:44 <Ampera> pick a LAN address, any
16:26:48 <Ampera> *interface
16:27:06 <Ampera> set the IPv6 config to static
16:27:24 <Ampera> then give it this ip: 2403:5800:7101:4300::1
16:27:34 <Ampera> with a /64
16:28:09 <Halcyon> Done
16:28:12 <Ampera> then go into Services / DHCPv6 Server & RA and on that same LAN interface, ensure that DHCPv6 is off
16:28:20 <Ampera> as in the DHCPv6 server on your router
16:28:26 <Halcyon> It is off
16:28:41 <Ampera> in Router Advertisements set RA to Assisted.
16:28:56 <Halcyon> Done
16:29:04 <Ampera> Do you have a machine on this LAN?
16:29:12 <Halcyon> My phone is
16:29:18 <Ampera> should do IPv6
16:29:22 <Ampera> uhhh
16:29:24 <Halcyon> Yeh it will
16:30:15 <Ampera> https://test-ipv6.com/
16:30:17 <Ampera> go to this site on your phone
16:30:19 <Ampera> report results
16:32:45 <Halcyon> Still seems to be going out via v4
16:33:15 <Ampera> alright
16:34:23 <Halcyon> Anyway I've done enough for today, this is giving me the shits
16:34:27 <Ampera> lol
16:34:30 <Halcyon> I need to go next door and install a dishwasher
16:34:35 <Ampera> have fun
16:35:50 <DogWomble_> So what is this dishwashers name?
16:36:07 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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16:55:36 <MrMobodies> I have found the cause
16:55:48 <MrMobodies> it is like here
16:55:49 <MrMobodies> https://forum.netgate.com/topic/109162/dns-resolver-not-resolving-itself-pfsense-fw-host/17
16:56:30 <MrMobodies> in this release I can't put in the gateway address in routing that created automatically, so I disable them
16:56:34 <MrMobodies> and put in new ones
16:56:45 <MrMobodies> as soon as I removed them it started to resolve on localhost
16:57:16 <MrMobodies> oh and turned the gateways that created automatically
16:57:44 <T3sl4> dolphins? https://i.imgur.com/U4e50Q7.gifv
16:58:31 <MrMobodies> the problem I have, if the gateways change and they given the same for both wans, on stops working.
16:59:35 <MrMobodies> Just going to test something
17:03:47 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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17:05:29 <MrMobodies> right it is working now.... intermittent
17:06:40 <MrMobodies> I think it is this... https://i.imgur.com/bmW3WNV.jpg
17:07:43 <MrMobodies> I'll test each one to see if it binding to the wrong ones
17:10:51 <T3sl4> MrMobodies: have you tried turning it off and back on?
17:11:45 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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17:28:34 <MrMobodies> okay it was definately the gateways i setup
17:28:47 <MrMobodies> it wasn't squid
17:29:38 <MrMobodies> that was dns issues I came across days ago
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20:37:00 <Lemon> hey peeps
20:39:00 <steve30> hi
20:40:35 <Lemon> whats cracking ?
20:43:49 * T3sl4 fresh cracks some lemon pepper
20:56:31 <Lemon> I have a question !
20:56:59 <Lemon> you know on keithleys, or any test gear that got that movable handle, used to elevate the equipement
20:57:07 <Lemon> you pull both sides, and move it
20:57:13 <Lemon> is there a way to remove it totally ?
20:57:28 <steve30> you'd probably have to take to case off
20:57:34 <steve30> and unfasten it inside somehow
20:57:34 <Lemon> on my model 175, it seems its the wrong way, keithley markings are the wrong side
20:57:43 <Lemon> hmmm thats what I thought, shoot
20:58:19 <Lemon> thanks for the input !
21:19:13 <T3sl4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCUTX1jurJ4
21:36:27 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Vintage-Multimetre-Hartmann-Braun-Multavi-II-annees-1930-080419/183767064339?hash=item2ac95edf13:g:k-wAAOSw6hZcq7kj
21:36:30 <Lemon> im tempted !
21:36:45 Join: AndrevS ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:50:25 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
22:01:55 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
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