#eevblog - 2020-02-07 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2020-02-07

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02:54 <Ysjoelfir> is that a.... prestige thing?
03:10 <Ysjoelfir> like, if you have the money to buy a big, expensive car, you can also go the extra mile and get an automatic?
04:23 <coppice_> well, if you spend 10k on a car and an automatic adds 1k, that's quite a big overhead. 1k on a 50k car is like the difference between the discounts offered from week to week
04:54 Topic Is: Official IRC channel of the EEVblog - www.eevblog.tv
04:54 Set By: (ChanOP) on: Fri Jan 24 20:18:35 2020
05:45 <coppice_> some of it is cultural. people have some weird ideas rooted in the 1970s - automatics are gas guzzlers, automatics are unreliable - and some odd ideas like you are more in control with a manual
06:34 <coppice_> oh, the other 1970s one - automatics in small cars make a not very fast car a lot slower
07:24 <Ysjoelfir> well.. not slow, but a bit unresponsive is what I noticed. but that is somehow neglegible imho. I like driving automatics, sadly, here in germany they still are rather rare
08:08 <coppice_> in the UK some big car makers, like volvo, only offer most of their cars as automatics
12:42 <Ysjoelfir> I don't like new cars, so.... meh :D
27:47 <hsn> http://ksim.kemet.com << this thing is awesome .. is it generally applicable on (non kemet) caps ?
29:00 <Ysjoelfir> I doubt that it is. Maybe as a rough indication if you find a kemet cap with the same dimmensions, material and ratings, but I wouldn't trust that the values are accurate
29:30 <coppice_> caps vary a lot between makers
29:59 <hsn> hmm
30:37 <hsn> so its good tool to play with things and see their affect on general
31:29 <T3sl4> hsn: their DC bias curves are terribly suspect, but if they're approximately the right scale it should be okay
32:23 <T3sl4> the rest doesn't vary much between cap types, with ESR being the biggest difference there (e.g. C0G vs X7R)
32:43 <T3sl4> everything else (stray L, C) is basically from package size
33:21 <coppice_> but the packages vary a lot in the Z direction
33:47 <hsn> good point
35:35 <K> heh, i read just yesyterday about caps - the three lettter designation (X7R) does not specify capacity/voltage ppm's, and and they found some X7R caps that were quite different in this regard
35:38 <coppice_> I don't see any spread information in the results that page gives
36:01 <K> dunno, maybe physics of it this ties into ESR aspect somehow
36:13 <hsn> T3sl4: yes i was checking this https://snipboard.io/1EVfFb.jpg << intrested in 3v3 .. it looked too perfect
36:26 <coppice_> temp coefficients vary enormously
36:42 <T3sl4> 3.3V is easy to filter, that's fine
37:32 <hsn> btw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZi8pa2P1Gk does anyone know this ?
37:37 <hsn> looks fancy?
38:06 <Ysjoelfir> one of my workmates uses a tool like that, but I don't know if it's this exact one
38:42 <Ysjoelfir> oh, it's a hardware - software bundle
38:54 <Ysjoelfir> I thought it's just a software that simulates the fields.
38:58 <K> prolly costs a gold brick
38:59 <T3sl4> heh, cute
39:06 <Ysjoelfir> that could actually be pretty usefull
39:27 <hsn> idk why their website is off .
39:42 <coppice_> www.emscan.com doesn't seem to exist
40:13 <hsn> but i found other company that looks its the (mother company) of this product
40:28 <Ysjoelfir> mdl tech
40:32 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.mdltechnologies.co.uk/products/emxpert/
42:05 <coppice_> MDL seems to be a distributor
43:11 <hsn> https://www.inteli-cs.com/emscan/
43:56 <hsn> the fact that the (emscan.com) is closed is worrying :D
44:20 <Ysjoelfir> just schlaitli
44:33 <coppice_> I've never seen a tool like that, but it looks like it might be super useful if it works well
45:10 <hsn> actually i saw it from microchip app note: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/Appnotes/00002587A.pdf
45:13 <hsn> 7 ^^
45:19 <Ysjoelfir> I just showed it to said workmate. He wants to buy one now. lets see if the boss allows it
45:19 <K> maybe they got bought?
45:39 <hsn> There are tools, such as Near field scanners that allow users to see emissions all over a board and evenzoom in and magnify hot spots to isolate potential layout issues. That is hard to do with a single probe.There are several EMI/EMC scanners on the market today, such as those from EMSCAN, DETECTUS,and API, among others. A scanner is essentially a series of near-field probes placed in a grid. Therefore,it can produce an image of a board's emission
45:40 <hsn> that is more consistent and repetitive than you can get bymanually scanning a board with a single probe. The EMxpert scanner from EMSCAN is one such scannerto consider. Click the EMxpert link to watch a demonstration video. EMxpert is a very useful tool, whichallows you to quickly analyze and compare design iterations and optimize hardware design in real-time sothat you are far more likely to pass the expensive certification lab testing, thereby sa
45:40 <hsn> valuable time tomarket for your product.
46:49 <hsn> and this is the other one (cnc scan i guess from pictures) http://www.detectus.se/solutions.html#immunity
49:25 <coppice_> the CNC like machine is useful, but it will take a while to scan, so its only useful for designs with a steady output. it looks like the emscan machine would cope with bursty operation better
50:14 <coppice_> I have seen a CNC like machine in someone's lab, although it wasn't that one. I don't know how effective they found it
50:53 <Ysjoelfir> it could be actually realy usefull for us. we have an EMV problem which seems to be coming from a 3V3 single ended LVCMOS line from an FPGA. the workmate is sitting, after the manufacturing is done with their days work, in the storage area with his nearfield probe, sniffing around the device....
51:00 <Ysjoelfir> nobody is allowed to come near him :D
51:54 <hsn> i found price of similar on fastemcpass.com
52:06 <coppice_> emscan seems to be the actual maker, but their server being down doesn't look good
52:21 <Ysjoelfir> how many millions does it cost hsn?
52:28 <hsn> wait i ll check
52:41 * Ysjoelfir is meanwhile working on his bachelors thesis....
52:48 <hsn> 30k i think for other one (for antenna)
53:06 <hsn> https://www.emcfastpass.com/test-equipment/product-category/near-field-scanners/
53:07 <Ysjoelfir> thats way less then I thought
53:35 <Ysjoelfir> oh, ok. its a tiny one
53:46 <Ysjoelfir> We would need that for... lets say.... 50x20cm
53:55 <hsn> but thats (rf expert) for the other type of probe
54:57 <hsn> 384 (24 x 16) H-field probes
56:46 <hsn> cant he (put half board) outside of this thing :D
56:49 <hsn> ?
57:24 <Ysjoelfir> sure.
11:55 <hsn> http://www.amberpi.com/products_smartzap.php << does zapping need 6 axis arm robot ?
14:09 <coppice_> That looks useful for standardising a lot of repeat testing, but I expect its too expensive to be good value for most people
14:47 <coppice_> I've used a few of those ESD testers by hand for hours on end :)
15:59 <coppice_> That exact Noiseken model is in quite a lot of labs
21:16 <hsn> 1$ noiseken ? https://snipboard.io/uxb5Ez.jpg
22:41 <coppice_> that's a newer model
23:39 <coppice_> I think that gun is fully electronic. The one in the amberpi picture has an electromechanical gun
24:12 <hsn> IEC61000-4-2 is not a problem is it ?
24:17 <hsn> :D
43:06 <Lemon> anyone here tried a fluke 101 ?
43:49 <coppice_> its not a huge hurdle for most designs, if you understand what you are doing. The problem for many people is they run a set of IEC6100-4-2 tests, get a failure and then grope is the dark, hoping to stumble on a cure
56:48 <K> 30k is about one gold brick, eh?
57:05 <Lemon> a tad less yeah
57:20 <Lemon> thats a lot of vintage test geart
57:22 <Lemon> gear
08:26 <Lemon> hey Ysjoelfir, I think you did the calibration of your HB meters, do you happen to know how to do it for the multavi 5 ?
18:37 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Farvel og har en hyggelige tid :)
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30:58 <Lemon> hey bud
31:06 <Lemon> I need your knowledge about HB :>
31:39 <Ysjoelfir> :O
31:49 <Lemon> do you know how can I calibrate my multavi 5 ? :>
31:49 * Ysjoelfir is looking for the disconnect button
31:56 <Lemon> haha
31:59 <Lemon> :(
32:01 <Ysjoelfir> calibrating is not a problem
32:08 <Ysjoelfir> compare it with a known good standard, done :)
32:29 <Lemon> yeah I can use my 175 with my lab supply for that, but how to calibrate it ?
32:48 <Lemon> I see 4 foots that can be removed at the back
33:06 <Lemon> then theres some screws, and a bakelite or so board
33:50 <Ysjoelfir> take a pic. but why would you disassemble it just for calibration?
33:51 <Ysjoelfir> or..
33:52 <Ysjoelfir> wait
34:02 <Ysjoelfir> I guess we have a problem with the language here
34:06 <Lemon> not zeroing, calibration I meant !
34:15 <Lemon> you know usually theres some trimpots
34:29 <Lemon> or a screw, with a series of things to do
34:39 <Lemon> because it measures a bit off
34:47 <Lemon> I want to see how close it can be
36:44 <Ysjoelfir> pardon me being ultra pedantic here, I guess it's because of working for a company producing precision metrology stuff.... calibration can mean two things in english. to check how accurate it is, or to change something to make it more accurate. in german it's a bit more clear: calibrating (kalibrieren) means to check, to adjust (justieren) means... well, adjusting
36:59 <Ysjoelfir> So I assume you want to adjust it, nor calibrate/check its calibration it :)
37:03 <Ysjoelfir> *not
37:15 <Lemon> ha yeah sorry, adjust it thats it :>
37:29 <Lemon> (please tell me more about what you work on, later !)
37:50 <Ysjoelfir> I made that mistake a thousand times before, so that somehow burnt into my mind^^
38:20 <Ysjoelfir> ok, to adjust it: Can you please post a pic of the back? i assume it's pretty simmilar to the multavi 2 I have already opened
38:36 <Lemon> hoooo actually I made a mistake when reading it !
38:46 <Ysjoelfir> which means, it can't realy be adjusted at all without changing components
38:52 <Lemon> I just saw that theres two scales, one for alternative and direct voltage
39:00 <Ysjoelfir> correct^^
39:09 <Lemon> and guess what, while my 175 reads 10.015 volts
39:18 <Lemon> it reads like 0.1mm after 10 volts :>
39:25 <Lemon> so id say its pretty bang on haha
40:08 <Lemon> yep its freaking bang on
40:43 <Lemon> maybe a tiiiiiiny bit off
40:47 <Lemon> but I cant ask too much
40:56 <Lemon> its already impressively close for an analog meter
41:03 <Ysjoelfir> that's what I would think of a multavi^^
41:29 <Ysjoelfir> those things are gorgeous
41:31 <Lemon> thats impressive
41:36 <Lemon> so you said you cant adjust it ?
41:40 <Lemon> no trimpot or so ?
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42:09 <Ysjoelfir> nope. take a look at my multavi 2 video I linked to some days ago :) there are only hardwired resistors in there
42:11 <Ysjoelfir> the hell?
42:23 <Lemon> ho it happened last day too
42:30 <Ysjoelfir> did someone pull the wrong cable in down undeR?
42:37 <Lemon> hah yeah I think I remember, I wanted to get a 15 euros multavi 2 but it wasnt in great shape
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42:51 <Lemon> also im concerned about my lab supply
43:03 <Lemon> the second output goes to 0.3v instead of 0
43:29 <Ysjoelfir> yeah, I read that. since the pot seems to be mechanically off, I would check if it's damaged
43:47 <Lemon> well ive seen nothing when I openned it
43:54 <Lemon> both pots are really nice when turning them
44:04 <Lemon> they are single turn but really precise ones, requiring force
44:10 <Ysjoelfir> did you measure it?
45:33 <Lemon> the output ?
46:03 <Lemon> while the first one outputs exactly 0 volts, this one outputs 0.3 according to my keithley, and the led dont go off
46:11 <Lemon> its seems slightly off as I said which is weird
46:22 <Lemon> and when I try to pull on it, it seems to be well fixed so I didnt insist
46:46 <Ysjoelfir> no, the pot
47:21 <Lemon> measured it in ohms ?
47:27 <Lemon> I dont understand
47:44 <Ysjoelfir> yes
47:46 <Lemon> im pretty much a beginner thats reading everything everywhere :>
47:58 <Lemon> ha no I didnt !
48:19 <Ysjoelfir> well, if some pot behaves mechanically strange I would see if it reaches close to 0 at the "strange" end. and compare it to the known good one
48:32 <Ysjoelfir> would be a waste of time to go hunt for an error, if it's just the pot :)
49:21 <Lemon> well its not acting strange, its perfectly smooth, its just that at the end, it should read 0 but nope it reads 0.3, and when I take back to look at both it seems this one is slightly off
49:30 <Lemon> but yeah you are right
49:41 <Lemon> I should remove again the 4209324 screws of the top and look again
49:45 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
49:51 <Lemon> (man if I love the multavi !)
50:07 <Lemon> ho and I wanted to know how to adjust the micronta too, I saw while fixing it that theres 4 trimpots
50:13 <Lemon> it was like new, like
50:16 <Lemon> really new
50:31 <Lemon> but someone left a leaky battery inside, and the ohm ranges werent working
50:39 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:41 <Lemon> so I cleaned it, removed both negative cables
50:55 <Lemon> put back some new ones, reflowed a contact and bam it works fine now
51:03 <hsn> see you guys
51:06 <Lemon> but what is weird, is that on voltage it seems to need some warmup
51:10 <Lemon> bye dude !
51:20 <hsn> :D sorry for interrupting u .. bye
51:31 <Lemon> haha I talk too much :>
51:43 <hsn> nah, im ISR function
52:02 <hsn> i inturrept everyone basically ..
52:09 <hsn> bad habit
52:10 <hsn> bye
52:45 <Ysjoelfir> did you manage to get one of those strange 1/2 2R10R batteries?
52:49 <Ysjoelfir> bye hsn :)
53:04 <Lemon> ho its using a AA and a 9v !
53:24 <Ysjoelfir> aah, nice!
54:26 <Ysjoelfir> the multavi HO (my favorite after the 2) uses half a "Duplex" battery (2R10R. Yes, you have to disassemble the battery to get two of those cells) and a strange 15V battery I have never seen ever
55:22 <Lemon> I think I saw the HO yeah !
55:34 <Lemon> I almost bought a multavi 10 too haha
55:51 <Lemon> so the micronta, right now I tried measuring a 9v bat on the 50v range
55:56 <Lemon> bam it goes up to 50+
55:57 <Ysjoelfir> you should start collecting and buy all of those I want to sell :D
56:05 <Ysjoelfir> lol?
56:10 <Lemon> and keep the leads on it, and it slowly goes down to 10-9
56:21 <Lemon> and now it stays at 9 something, a bit off
56:25 <Lemon> even if I remove and put them back on
57:01 <Lemon> (honestly, I'd love to buy some ! but theres so many things I want to buy haha)
58:09 <Ysjoelfir> strange. have you a link to infos about that meter?
59:12 <Lemon> https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/steve-at-play/antique-electronics-and-2/22-204a-multimeter.pdf mine is the B version, I cant see what differs
59:17 <Lemon> loks identivcal
01:51 <Lemon> so after it sat a bit, on the 10v range it indicate 5.2v, when I put 5.011 volts
01:56 <Lemon> which is alright I guess
03:28 <Lemon> ten volts becomes 11,7-8 on the 50v range
03:34 <Lemon> which is already meh
03:59 <Ysjoelfir> the circuit diagram is.... strange. but it doesn't seem that there is to much to go wrong in there. maybe there are some carbon resistors that got moist and drift strongly while being warmed
04:05 <Ysjoelfir> what does it look like from the inside
04:59 <coppice_> open it, and try cleaning the switching contacts
05:18 <Ysjoelfir> that should be done prior to all other things, you are right
05:49 <Ysjoelfir> it's so normal for me to do that that I always forget to ask if it has been done...
15:06 <Lemon> I did cleaned the contacts !
15:15 <Lemon> as there was some battery leakage on them
15:38 <Lemon> but maybe I didnt do it properly, its hardly accessible in there
16:00 <Lemon> the part where the rotary switch makes contact isnt accessible at all because of soldered wires
16:04 <Lemon> so I did my best
16:27 <Lemon> I checked resistors visually, they seemed alright
16:33 <Lemon> and seeing how new this device is, well
16:56 <Lemon> after warming, 10.015 volts reads 11v on the 50v range
19:14 <Lemon> 10,7 maybe 10.6 when I try to zero it the closest I can
19:49 <Lemon> but see I go to 20v on the supply, it reads 23-25 and goes down to 20
19:57 <K> if batteries have leaked, i suggest you take it apart and wash it
20:02 <Lemon> well 21 or 22 maybe
20:25 <Lemon> well I cleaned every part touched by the leakage and changed them cables
20:28 <Lemon> it wasnt a big leak
21:47 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
28:51 <Ysjoelfir> bye lemon
29:56 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
30:37 <Ysjoelfir> bye hsn
32:37 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
32:44 <Lemon> sorry buddies
32:58 <Ysjoelfir> Hi Lemon
33:01 <Lemon> my usb hub somehow turned off, which led my phone to drain out
34:43 <Ysjoelfir> who needs a phone anyway?
35:52 <Lemon> I use it as a router :>
36:11 <Lemon> well, I share the internet from my phone to my computer
36:14 <Lemon> not really a router
37:24 <Ysjoelfir> ah
37:30 <Lemon> have I told you about the 20 euros waveform generator I bought ?
38:24 <K> a message about our lord and saviour!
38:27 <Lemon> the dude was selling 3 of the same model at 20, and another one at 30 which had the same specs, but seemed to be a tad better with more functions
38:46 <Lemon> I bought one of the 20 euros ones, but when I got it a knob was missing :(
38:54 <Ysjoelfir> meh. I would complain
39:05 <Lemon> I told him, and he said 'well if you can pay for the shipping, keep that one, and I send you the 30 euros one'
39:15 <Lemon> so I paid 8 euros :> which is nice
39:20 <Ysjoelfir> nice :)
39:27 <Lemon> I'll maybe try to find a new pot for this one
39:32 <Lemon> that was kind of him really
39:35 <Lemon> he was all sorry
41:30 <Lemon> so on the way I have that waveform gen, the triplett 630 NS I won on auction, the XJW01 that I will probably get in one month or so
41:34 <Lemon> and some random components
41:47 <Lemon> im starting to have some neat things !
42:03 <Lemon> and im not talking about the two masterpiece mamalala wants to give me :>
45:02 <Lemon> tek 2245a, keithley 175, topward tps 4000, a random 30v 5a switch mode lab supply, micronta range doubler, multavi 5, soon triplett 630ns, xjw01 lcr meter, centrad Iforgotthenumber waveform gen !
45:09 <Lemon> and my dear ts100 iron
46:04 <Ysjoelfir> that sounds pretty nice :)
46:25 <Lemon> yeah that will be neat once I can start to work on stuff !
46:32 <Lemon> the precision aspect really interest me
46:56 <Lemon> I want to make some voltage standards, resistor/cap/inductance decade boxes, etc
47:06 <K> voltnut alert!
47:10 <Lemon> enough to calibrate some of my tools
47:17 <Lemon> haha yeah I fear im going in that direction...
47:31 <Lemon> lets hope I dont sell all my possessions to buy a 3458a in a few months !
49:13 <Lemon> ho and I have a tek ths710a too !
49:20 <Lemon> it was my father's
49:46 <Lemon> I also have two hameg hm 203, the older versions I think 203-1/2 maybe its not specified
49:51 <Lemon> but they aint in great shape
49:54 <Ysjoelfir> yep, I see the voltnuttery starting soon :D
50:15 <Ysjoelfir> prepare to make some space on the bench for the soon to be aquired HP 3458 :)
50:30 <Lemon> when I saw that for a few 10's of euros I could build a 5v reference close to 5.000v, even two more digits with a trimpot
50:34 <Lemon> I couldnt resist :>
50:37 <Lemon> haha its a neat machine !
50:49 <Lemon> but the fluke mamalala wants to give me would be a really nice one honestly
51:05 <Ysjoelfir> what do you intend to use for your 5V source?
51:07 <Lemon> a 8502a full options
51:31 <Lemon> ho I said 5v as an example, probably to calibrate things, and because I want to build one for fun :>
51:46 <Lemon> I also want to put a few 0.005 or better resistors in a box with connectors
51:54 <Lemon> to adjust, sorry
51:56 <Lemon> not calibrate
52:11 <Ysjoelfir> :D
52:30 <Lemon> I mean if I manage to make a 5.0000v, that would already be quite neat !
52:35 <K> i got myself one of those 10/15V voltage references from ebay
52:45 <K> needed strange-ass batteries
53:05 <Lemon> ho you cant power it from a supply, like a linear one for low noise I guess ?
53:06 <Ysjoelfir> I build some references on veroboard... should make some PCBs for them I guess
53:14 <Lemon> ho i'd love to measure my supply's noise
53:30 <Lemon> I think its in nano volts but im not sure
53:40 <Lemon> the cheapo is in 100mv I think :>
54:28 <Ysjoelfir> i never measured that tbh
54:31 <Lemon> but yeah measuring all kind of things interest me a lot
54:32 <Ysjoelfir> maybe I should once
54:43 <Lemon> I really want to source a copy of the art of electronics
54:48 <Lemon> and start to learn basics
55:00 <Lemon> I already started here and there but sometimes its nice to have a known place to learn
55:05 <Lemon> instead of multiple sources
56:05 <Lemon> for my voltage references, I want to build them on a breadboard, and design the pcb
56:11 <Lemon> that way it will teach me a bit on that area too
56:21 <Lemon> its not too hard but its nice to do it
01:15 <Lemon> and I kinda want to try jlcpcb :>
01:30 <Lemon> 7-10 days of shipping for 5.3 euros to france is kinda cool
03:28 <Ysjoelfir> then go on :) try it^^ it's fun
04:56 <Lemon> yeah I'm looking at voltage reference ic right now ! if you know some neat ones, im all for !
05:09 <Ampera> it's my sneeze break
05:11 * Ampera ACHOOS
06:21 <Lemon> a tes souhaits !
07:04 * Ysjoelfir is leaving to go home.
07:08 <Ysjoelfir> bye all
07:18 <Lemon> ho bye ! :>
09:11 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Farvel og har en hyggelige tid :)
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13:57 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:50 <rust_collector> oh k
24:27 <rust_collector> I think mr orange would be better off if he started collecting measuring tapes
32:41 <Lemon> if you knew what I collect
32:53 <Lemon> sometimes I see something and I go mad
32:57 <rust_collector> ear wax and
32:57 <Lemon> like rubik cubes
33:02 <rust_collector> yes
33:09 <Lemon> it all started when I wanted a good one to start competing
33:09 <rust_collector> that is a bit weird
33:15 <Lemon> I got down to the 30 seconds to solve it
33:24 <Lemon> but I liked the tuning aspect more
33:31 <Lemon> so I started to modify them to make them better
33:35 <Lemon> getting more and more and more
33:48 <Lemon> ended up with at least one of every magnetic model avalaible on the market :>
33:52 <Lemon> 300+
33:57 <rust_collector> ok, so you just have the disease
34:16 <Lemon> I also have in the 10-15 thousands stamps
34:26 <Lemon> tons of coins, various stuff
34:31 <rust_collector> any magyar posta ones?
34:33 <Lemon> but I stopped them
34:44 <Lemon> ho probably but on the end I was just collecting french ones
34:57 <Lemon> I think I have 3-4k from all around the world
35:14 <rust_collector> I had a "kit" with stamps and a book to put them in and stuff
35:37 <rust_collector> they came with bags of random stamps, but I think 1/3 of them were hungarian
35:56 <Lemon> hoo thats pretty neat ! Im lacking albums to put them in
35:59 <Lemon> I have a few but well
36:29 <Lemon> btw rusty I got my multavi 5 today
36:41 <Lemon> and damn its in pretty good condition, and measures bang on !
37:55 <rust_collector> yes, the disease. .. . well that is nice
38:21 <Lemon> you know ive been depressed since im 9-10
38:39 <Lemon> ive always been kinda different, some say too intelligent, I don't think its the case at all
38:40 <rust_collector> I think you should start collecting crap that just sort of works some times,
38:49 <Lemon> but for sure I was thinking about a shitton of things all the time
38:57 <Lemon> which was ruining my days and night
39:03 <Lemon> haha
39:07 <Lemon> but my shit works !
39:22 <rust_collector> yeah, so you think it is fun, and "need" more
39:25 <Lemon> having such passions makes me somewhat happy
39:36 <Lemon> but this time, I want to make it a work
39:55 <Lemon> I want to learn from the basics
40:00 <Lemon> and work in a nice place
40:13 <rust_collector> bathroom?
40:25 <Lemon> hmmm toilets if I can
40:27 <Lemon> :>
40:39 <rust_collector> toilet with a computer desk
40:55 <Lemon> nah I don't know yet, maybe repair old items, or do prototyping for stuff
40:59 <Lemon> electronics, and electronics
41:59 <Lemon> but I dont want to go the digital route
42:04 <Lemon> even if I probably wont have the choice
42:10 <Lemon> I like the analog aspect of electronics
42:15 <rust_collector> make a radar!
42:17 <Lemon> using passive components, as few ic's as possible
42:48 <rust_collector> so you can watch planes fly by, on your old crt tv
43:07 <Lemon> heh thats interesting :>
44:50 <Lemon> ho btw I just thought about something
45:02 <Lemon> if I have a precise voltage reference, and a precise resistor
45:09 <Lemon> I can make a precise current reference ?
48:20 <rust_collector> fo r things like aclibrating an amperemeter?
48:32 <Lemon> yeah or anything else
48:48 <rust_collector> I guess that would work
48:56 <Lemon> the amp part of any dmm for example
49:01 <rust_collector> yes
50:35 <rust_collector> today is a very bad day to think about that stuff, or anything else
50:49 <Lemon> why that ?
51:34 <rust_collector> my brain is not fully connected today. and it probably has some flaky ram
53:55 <Lemon> understandable
54:39 <rust_collector> I don't get it. what do you mean?
55:11 <Lemon> try to turn it off and on again !
55:28 <rust_collector> yeah. I just have to finish eating my breakfast
05:30 <rust_collector> so, tomorrow is my day off, except I have to do things. but it is off, so that is ok
21:28 <rust_collector> what? did you go off buying things again?
22:13 <Lemon> ho no im cleaning shit !
22:14 <Lemon> :>
22:34 * Ysjoelfir eats a Nussstriezel
22:46 <rust_collector> oh. sorry. or yay? depending on your fetishes
22:55 <rust_collector> a nut what?
24:10 <rust_collector> those look good
24:19 <rust_collector> in pics on the internet
41:05 <Ysjoelfir> jep, it's nice :)
58:04 Join: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
58:12 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
58:36 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:46 <Lemon> alright its somewhat clean out there
02:34 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Varian-Cary-401-Vibrating-Reed-Electrometer-Picoammeter-Controller/283613462466?hash=item4208adffc2:g:IGQAAOSwTrZde84t
02:39 <Lemon> why so much shipping/customs
02:51 <Lemon> this thing was the new standard in the 70s
03:14 <Lemon> 10-17 amps
03:21 <Lemon> 10-16 coulombs
04:32 <Ysjoelfir> how does that work
04:43 <Lemon> its an electrometer !
04:56 <Lemon> nothing fancy, with that vibrating reed system I dont understand
05:39 <rust_collector> oooh, those are cool
06:07 <Lemon> yeah id love to get one of those old electrometers
06:12 <Lemon> a keithley, or another one
06:21 <Lemon> measuring down to 10 attoamps sounds cool
11:45 Quit: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) Connection closed
15:09 <Lemon> I found a 0.02%, 0.5ppm/C 5v reference chip
15:16 <Lemon> it costs 12 euros a pop
17:15 <Lemon> 1ppm/C max
17:21 <Lemon> thats still pretty neat
17:37 <Lemon> and theres a voltage trim option
18:05 <Lemon> the noise is 1.5micro volts peak to peak
21:59 Join: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
26:19 <coppice_> it takes a complex design, with lots of trim on test, to get to that ppm figure
26:54 <Lemon> well that seems to be the standard specs, I directly read them out of the spec sheet
27:06 <Lemon> but honestly even if it was 10ppm per degrees id be fine
27:20 <coppice_> 10ppm is a lot cheaper
27:42 <Lemon> but if it sates 1ppm a degree
27:57 <Lemon> and I say let it run for 24 hours at -+3 degrees
28:13 <Lemon> it will be somewhat fine right ? maybe what, 3-4ppm total variation ?
28:17 <Lemon> if I aim at the optimal temp
29:24 <Lemon> I saw a video where the dude managed to get 5.00000v, using a trimpot
29:33 <Lemon> I bet it wont stay long at that value
29:42 <Lemon> but if it can be 5.0000v, that would be really good
30:15 <rust_collector> or 3000.0003 that would be better
30:43 <Lemon> 3000 ? :>
30:59 <Lemon> we aim at something a tad too high haha
31:00 <rust_collector> 3000.0003!
31:30 <rust_collector> well, if you are starting a project... might as well
31:34 <rust_collector> you know
31:36 <rust_collector> uhm
32:02 <Lemon> the lowest I want to aim at is 5.000v
32:09 <Lemon> one digit more would be really great
32:15 <Lemon> two more, perfect but hard to obtain
33:36 <rust_collector> hmm, you should look at this unrelated video, because that thing is pretty cool- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dnQ9mYdf8
33:56 <Lemon> is it another thing I will want to buy ?
34:21 <rust_collector> I have no idea, but I was for auction when they made the video
36:11 <Lemon> heh its neat
36:14 <Lemon> I like this channel
36:54 <rust_collector> I like machining and stuff. so looking at gun parts and such is fun
38:48 <Lemon> yeah I totally agree
54:02 <Lemon> amprobe makes a 0.02% accuracy, 5, 4/5 digits handheld dmm for 245 bucks
54:14 <Lemon> I dont want it at all thats was just to note it
54:18 <Lemon> its pretty impressive
55:22 Join: Ben ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
55:35 <Ben> Hey, any stm32 RTOS fans?
56:01 <Ampera> I only like Unrealtime OSes
56:37 <Ben> Don't know the fun you're missing!
57:40 <Ben> Stm32 user?
01:22 Quit: Ben ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
12:44 <Ysjoelfir> bye ben
15:07 <AndrevS> I use STM32 and nRF5x, but no RTOS (yet)
16:06 Quit: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) Connection closed
16:29 <Ysjoelfir> Rusty?
16:30 Join: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:35 <rust_collector> hmmmm?
17:05 <Ysjoelfir> up there in your country... it should be pretty common to have a.... erm.... car standby heating thing, right?
17:17 <Ysjoelfir> those that you can program to preheat your car using your gasoline
17:24 <rust_collector> yeah
17:50 <Ysjoelfir> how much sell those for on the used market? (including cables and the timer clock thingy)
18:38 <rust_collector> hmm, no idea. if it is in good shape, I would think 1500 to 5000, depending? nok, not euro things
19:08 <rust_collector> It is not very common on gas cars, mostly on diesels
20:20 <Ysjoelfir> hmm... that is not that much cheaper than it is here
20:43 <Ysjoelfir> I would love to have one in my 940. but they are so damn expensive if you want a complete one
20:48 <Ysjoelfir> around 300€
21:00 <rust_collector> water heater, or just air?
21:06 <Ysjoelfir> water
21:45 <Ysjoelfir> like webasto thermotop
25:58 <rust_collector> well, it looks like they are 1000 to 4000 or so, but they are all diesel
26:19 <rust_collector> I see burn chambers for "benzin"
26:28 <DHess_US> The only standby car heating I know of it electric.
27:12 <Ysjoelfir> strange. I mean, sure, a diesel would profit more from a standby heating, but the additional comfort is great. just get in and drive away without freezing to death
27:14 <DHess_US> You have an outlet where you park and plug the car in. There is an electric blanket around the battery and some of the bolts into the engine are replaced with ones which have heating elements built in.
27:16 <DHess_US> So a block heater.
28:09 <DHess_US> Where it matters, EVs may do the same thing for their battery using either battery power or external power.
29:03 <rust_collector> yep
29:12 <Ysjoelfir> I have read that this was used by nordic countries very often
29:31 <Ysjoelfir> but if you don't have a carport or even a garage... well.
29:46 <rust_collector> but we used to have a lot of diesels
31:07 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
31:24 <rust_collector> the electric is very nice and simple to install, but that doesn't help if you have no power
31:48 <Ysjoelfir> exactly
31:57 <rust_collector> you can get gasoline heaters, but I just do not see any used for sale right now
32:05 <Ysjoelfir> I would need a... 200 meter extension cord if I would use that now for the volvo
32:20 <rust_collector> is it a manual or auto?
33:00 <Ysjoelfir> here there are many for sale (around 1000 on ebay germany), but most of them (<300€) are with missing pieces, mostly the electronics.
33:03 <Ysjoelfir> manual
33:40 <rust_collector> oh well.
34:20 <rust_collector> if it was an auto, I guess you could just wire up a remote starter, because the 940 will heat up quick-ish anyway
35:11 <Ysjoelfir> it does. It is rather nice, i can't even get to the highway before it is more or less warm
35:26 <Ysjoelfir> but it would be even nicer to not need to scrach ice from the windows
35:50 <rust_collector> and if you cover up 3/4 of the radiator, it will be even quicker
36:36 <rust_collector> so, internet says the burn chamber and fuel pump is the difference, at least on some models of webasto
37:41 <Ysjoelfir> that may be the reason why you can find the chambers cheap-ish
38:05 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Dove Canyon Tasmania https://t.co/sIxrBRVIfq
38:23 <rust_collector> there is not much to them, they are just a stainless tube, with flanges and some holes
38:39 <rust_collector> but they do burn out after some time
39:11 <Ysjoelfir> it's at all not a complicated thing. you could probably build a standby heater by yourself. but I'm not sure what the TÜV thinks about that
39:20 <Ysjoelfir> I doubt that they would be happy
39:44 <rust_collector> I am just saying that is why the chambers are cheap-ish
40:05 <Ysjoelfir> I understood that. that was just a generall statement^^
40:46 <rust_collector> you can also get the chinese heaters, which are clones of something. they may or may not work or be safe
42:58 <rust_collector> https://maelpoureau.com/webasto_shower/
45:11 <Ysjoelfir> lol, nice^^
53:12 <rust_collector> I like that idea
53:47 <Lemon> 4ppm is 0.0004% right ?
54:15 <rust_collector> my eberspacher sounds like a small plane trying to take off.
54:22 <Ampera> I made a macaroni and cheeseburger skillet (or rather large pot), and it was almost good
54:37 <Ampera> but I made some mistakes and the method needs to be adjusted. I think I'll write down a new recipe for it, though.
55:26 <rust_collector> that sounds like food
56:05 <Ampera> I used mozzarella to make the cheese sauce, and then the half&half I used in it broke a bit
56:17 <Ampera> but if I adjust the method and timing, and use cheddar, I could probably get somewhere
57:19 <MrMobodies> it seems you're good at cheese
57:26 <MrMobodies> it is tempting me
57:43 <rust_collector> cheese is good
57:43 <Ampera> I also forgot any salt, which is never good
57:56 <Ampera> I also used cheap ground turkey, with some bits of sausage, when I should have just done all sausage.
58:13 <MrMobodies> I don't like when salt or pepper is put in scrambled eggs
58:54 <MrMobodies> bits of sausages and turkey reminds me of Christmas
59:30 <rust_collector> we don't do sausages or turkey for christmas here.
59:52 <Ysjoelfir> that sounds like a nice and easy dish :)
59:55 <Ampera> We do whatever for christmas, last one we had corned beef
00:09 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, it wasn't hard. It's the cheese sauce that needs tuning
00:26 <rust_collector> we have pig ribcage
00:28 <MrMobodies> Salmon rolled up with soft cheese if my favourite
00:57 <Ampera> As for eggs, I don't eat them too often, but I like mine with corned beef hash
01:53 <MrMobodies> has brown with corn beef sounds tasty and with the beens
01:54 <Ampera> anyways, work is over, time to go home
02:01 <Ampera> bbl
02:28 <rust_collector> hmm, I used to eat a ton of eggs, when I was skinny.
02:45 <MrMobodies> I lost my appetite due to this cold and of all a sudden Ampera brought it back
03:11 <MrMobodies> I like it when they're fed corn
03:18 <MrMobodies> with yellow yolks
03:27 <MrMobodies> orange yolks sorry
03:57 <MrMobodies> It is getting very cold out there
04:11 <rust_collector> ok?
04:32 <rust_collector> it was 9c this morning, but now it is back to 0
07:56 <MrMobodies> It is -5.4 on the grass and -2.1 on the stones near the door
08:11 <MrMobodies> it was nice and mild earlier
19:46 <Lemon> hey peeps
19:50 <Lemon> im about to buy this https://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/1679164468.htm/
20:10 <Lemon> its in nice shape, and the dude said he tested the voltmeter part, which perfectly works
20:19 <Lemon> its also an amp and powermeter (up to 20kw !)
20:32 <Lemon> do you think I take a risk ? or is it likely to be working aswell ?
20:42 <Lemon> in a case it doesnt work, it should be easily fixable no ?
22:29 <Lemon> something tells me it should be fine
28:28 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Connection closed
28:53 <rust_collector> soooo, are you done ordering it yet?
29:15 <Lemon> haha no :P I asked the guy if he'll do 40 euros with shipping, instead of 50 +10
29:36 <Lemon> I think I'm not taking a big risk, and if it needs a fix, it will be a nice project that shouldnt be too hard
29:44 <Lemon> I need to think like that
29:51 <Lemon> I want to learn electronics after all !
32:04 <MrMobodies> Made in 1986
32:15 <Lemon> no, last check in 86 :>
32:40 <Lemon> I think its much older, maybe end of 60s or beginning of 70s ?
32:49 <Lemon> I dont find much infos on it, the brand is AOIP
33:10 <Lemon> there was a microohm meter from AOIP for sale too, accurate down to 0.00001 ohms I think
33:14 <Lemon> the guy wanted 2k euros for it :>
33:39 <MrMobodies> sounds like a lot
33:48 <Lemon> well its still sold for 5k new
33:58 <Lemon> its hard to measure such low ohm values
34:32 <MrMobodies> I it is the precision
34:56 <Lemon> I'll be more than happy with my 61 euros lcr meter from china :>
35:07 <rust_collector> ok, good night
35:09 <Lemon> I think it can do 0.0001 ohms
35:17 <Lemon> night bud
35:26 <MrMobodies> nigt
35:41 <Lemon> so watcha think MrMobodies
35:44 <MrMobodies> the metal one with the plastic buttons
35:55 <Lemon> that wattmeter is a safe purchase ?
36:05 <Lemon> and yeah the metal one :>
36:10 <MrMobodies> oh both
36:25 <MrMobodies> maybe that's what I would do, when I am not sure
36:26 <Lemon> I purchased it yesterday night
36:38 <MrMobodies> that'll be exciting when it turns up
36:59 <Lemon> ho I was asking if the wattmeter for sale, that is probably but unsure to work fine is a safe pruchase :>
37:01 <Lemon> purchase
37:08 <Lemon> the voltmeter part work
37:13 <Lemon> but he cant test the wattmeter part
37:29 <MrMobodies> I see, partially confirmed working
37:44 <Lemon> I think theres few reasons it wouldnt work
37:58 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
38:00 <MrMobodies> Needs servicing?
38:01 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
38:08 <Lemon> he doesnt know at all
38:20 <Lemon> he just tried the voltmeter, and it works
38:23 <Lemon> thats all I know :>
38:28 <Lemon> but it looks in pretty conditions
38:36 <Lemon> and im sure that its not that hard to fix, if it was faulty
38:46 <Lemon> the wattmeter part measures up to 20kw, thats balllsss
39:02 <MrMobodies> a good project for you
39:17 <MrMobodies> I am not sure about it being a safe sale
39:45 <MrMobodies> but it'll be a bargain if you can fix it or it works
40:34 <MrMobodies> https://img6.leboncoin.fr/ad-large/068790e638433467939a6ab54dd1a7f6fd454439.jpg
40:44 <MrMobodies> It does look in excellent condition sticker is still there
40:56 <MrMobodies> print is fine
41:51 <MrMobodies> I see something in the paper under the glass
42:06 <MrMobodies> maybe a bit of damp
45:36 <Lemon> between 90 and 100 ?
45:52 <Lemon> but yeah it looks in great shape
45:59 <Lemon> last revision was in 1986 :>
46:07 <Lemon> ha yeah you knew that im dumb
46:35 <MrMobodies> dumb?
46:52 <MrMobodies> I never think you are dumb
46:57 <MrMobodies> you are interested
47:02 <Lemon> ho no no
47:07 <Lemon> I missed a coma I think :>
47:15 <Lemon> ha yeah. you knew that, im dumb :>
47:18 <Lemon> what was I wanted to say
47:27 <Lemon> because im reapeating myself
47:52 <MrMobodies> "I am dumb because I repeated myself"
48:03 <Lemon> maybe dumb isnt the right word )
48:05 <Lemon> x)
48:15 <Lemon> we usually say that in french, when we make a mistake
48:21 <Lemon> but its not that strong as 'dumb' I think
48:29 <MrMobodies> I find it so easy to misinterperet
49:01 <MrMobodies> Dave Jones "Silly me I did this..."
49:10 <Lemon> yeah thats true, I never realized
49:11 <MrMobodies> when he makes a mistake
49:34 <MrMobodies> Or he says "Silly Dave"
50:01 <Lemon> yeah thats right :P
50:11 <Lemon> but yeah back to that wattmeter
50:19 <Lemon> I really wanted one, and its nice that it measures up to 30 amps
50:48 <MrMobodies> that one above when it was tested in 1986
51:02 <Lemon> yeah
51:04 <MrMobodies> It'll be a nice project considering it looks in good condition
51:18 <Lemon> yes either way it sounds like a neat purchase
51:33 <MrMobodies> if it was in terrible condition then you know how it was treated or subjected to.
51:35 <Lemon> if its working, thats fine, if its not, well it will teach me things and will probably not be costly to repair
51:44 <Lemon> thats what I keep telling me !
51:57 <Lemon> there was a keithley 610B, it was in somewhat decent shape
52:04 <Lemon> but missing the supply cable, one knob cap
52:10 <Lemon> and back screws were literally orange
52:29 <Lemon> he wanted 70 euros shipped, it was a decent deal but I feared I wouldnt be able to fix it if there was a problem
52:35 <MrMobodies> https://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/other/images/602.jpg
52:35 <Lemon> it wasnt powered on for about 10 years#
52:38 <MrMobodies> It looks 1960's
52:50 <Lemon> ho yeah its old !
52:59 <MrMobodies> I wonder if it has the RIFA in there
53:04 <Lemon> but it can measures down to femto amps, up to 10-100 teraohms :>
53:12 <Lemon> hooo probably !
54:00 <MrMobodies> femto amps very small
54:17 <MrMobodies> also looks simple inside
54:25 <Lemon> yeah thats impressive, even walking in the same room makes the needle move !
54:35 <Lemon> you can even predict thunderstorms with it haha
54:49 <Lemon> one day I'll get an old electrometer
54:53 <MrMobodies> A C series
54:54 <MrMobodies> https://www.holzleitner.com/el/keithley-610c-electrometer/keithley-610c-interior.jpg
55:09 <MrMobodies> looks simple inside
55:19 <Lemon> the 610B is almost identical in performances as the C, but it uses tubes, while the C is solidstate I think
55:50 <MrMobodies> b the is a tube based
55:52 <MrMobodies> I see
55:55 <Lemon> you know what was bothering me the most ?
55:58 <Lemon> that missing knob
56:11 <Lemon> im kind of a perfectionnist, I hate when theres a missing button or knob
56:12 <MrMobodies> Oh dear
56:17 <Lemon> I want my tools to be in good shape :>
56:40 <MrMobodies> it is qyuite annoying to look at it
56:44 <MrMobodies> when things are missing
56:53 <MrMobodies> and it starts looking a bit ugly
57:00 <MrMobodies> with one piece missing for me that is
57:17 <MrMobodies> like on stereo amps
57:32 <Lemon> yeah I would think all the day about it !
57:38 <Lemon> its like the first scratch on a brand new item
57:48 <Lemon> or a single bubble under a screen protection
57:58 <Lemon> I like wear on an old item, its fine
58:06 <Lemon> but cracks, missing things etc nope
58:11 <MrMobodies> THat would upset me
58:29 <MrMobodies> they say, some people spend so much of money on something
58:40 <MrMobodies> and are too afraid to use it because they may scratch it
59:02 <Lemon> yeah thats true too !
00:13 <MrMobodies> Here is an issue I had some days ago
00:40 <MrMobodies> Try and work out a copper shim to fit a northbridge to replace the worn out tape thing
00:56 <MrMobodies> then find the board and CPU socket is warped and not level
01:09 <MrMobodies> without the shim it is not level anyway
01:27 <MrMobodies> take the heatpipe off, and the past is too much in one place
01:45 <Lemon> ho yeah I remember
01:52 <MrMobodies> no screws on the northbrige, it is held up by a toough bit of foam
01:54 <Lemon> I had to play with different size of thermal pads
02:06 <MrMobodies> It took me days... due to their penny pinching
02:17 <MrMobodies> to get the right sizes in place
02:22 <MrMobodies> and the coils were getting hot too
02:32 <MrMobodies> where had pad there under the heatsink
03:01 <Lemon> powerful laptops are a pain
03:02 <MrMobodies> https://imgur.com/a/Ubynfc5
03:09 <Lemon> even with perfect pads, high end paste etc
03:10 <MrMobodies> this wasn't exactly powerfull
03:19 <Lemon> mine never ran under 75 degrees full load
03:24 <MrMobodies> the screen was good but it was known for overheating
03:40 <MrMobodies> you'd find lot sof boards
04:36 <Lemon> hmm temps are alright for me honestly
04:43 <Lemon> 60s at almost full load
05:13 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_osacat=0&_odkw=LJ71+motherboard
05:18 <MrMobodies> Lots of faulty ones
05:20 <MrMobodies> not good
05:51 <MrMobodies> oops
05:53 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_osacat=0&_odkw=Packard+Bell+LJ71+motherboard&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=LJ71+motherboard&_sacat=0
06:08 <MrMobodies> this one just a had a faulty memory module
06:10 <MrMobodies> that was all
06:22 <MrMobodies> but then I noticed it getting very hot
06:25 <Lemon> packard bell laptops are sadly not that reliable
06:42 <Lemon> I remember that a lot of peeps was taking theirs to my father for him to repair them
06:49 <MrMobodies> if only they put in a bigger fan and screws around the nothrbirdge
07:02 <MrMobodies> I bet he made them right
07:12 <MrMobodies> so they don't overheat again
07:20 <MrMobodies> of when they bend
07:41 <MrMobodies> i noticed this one also flexes a lot
08:14 <MrMobodies> so if it was at a certain position the north bridge may loose contact with the heatpipe
08:15 <Lemon> yeah he was all for making everything work again, no matter the age or price
08:41 <MrMobodies> that's nice, a hobby too
09:07 <MrMobodies> bet the customers were happy
10:07 <Lemon> hoo yeah they were, especially for the price he was asking haha
10:12 <Lemon> ho totally aside but
10:25 <Lemon> I also want to find a volt tube ohm meter
10:32 <Lemon> as those got insanely high input impedance
10:40 <Lemon> which doesnt affect the circuit its measuring
10:53 <Lemon> (and they are nice items :> )
10:58 <MrMobodies> isolated
11:35 <MrMobodies> when you find them it's too look
12:00 <Lemon> there was one for 40 euros but picture was shitty
12:17 <Lemon> im also negociating for an analog clamp meter
12:23 <Lemon> for 30 euros max with shipping
12:35 <Lemon> I dont want to spend too much on it
12:55 <MrMobodies> wise not to spend much when you don't know what to expect
13:46 <MrMobodies> me, if I know what I was getting I'd order a whole load of it
13:53 <MrMobodies> well I mean spares
14:52 <Lemon> ho for that clamp meter, I'll buy in nice shape or nothing
14:59 <Lemon> I have two candidates but they dont answer
15:05 <Lemon> 20 and 25 with shipping
15:15 <Lemon> french made ones, 'chauvin arnoux'
16:02 <Lemon> https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/1631341989.htm/
16:10 <Lemon> this one, or alike
17:21 <MrMobodies> 1970's?
17:26 <Lemon> probably yeah
18:03 <MrMobodies> underneath where the two prongs meet
18:15 <MrMobodies> I see something inbetween, is that copper or rust?
19:54 <Lemon> good question, it might be copper I think !
20:07 <MrMobodies> blob:https://imgur.com/11951884-ab61-40fd-b9a6-2ecaf1832f14
20:10 <MrMobodies> oops
20:19 <MrMobodies> maybe it has oxidised a bit
20:36 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/N456Ck5.jpg
20:51 <MrMobodies> Maybe bit of alcohol will sort that out
21:03 <Lemon> yeah nothing too bad I think
21:11 <MrMobodies> it looks well made
21:18 <MrMobodies> the display looks sharp and clear
21:43 <MrMobodies> no fancy rubbery stuff to peal off
22:34 <Lemon> yeah those were used a lot in france
22:55 <Lemon> Im wondering if replacing resistors within a volt ohm meter with better ones, tighter tolerance
22:59 <Lemon> will make it a lot more accurate
24:28 <MrMobodies> I remembered someone saying they can loose their values over time
25:16 <Lemon> yeah, getting new ones with same specs helps
25:21 <Lemon> but what if you go with 0.1% ones ?
25:32 <Lemon> stock old ones are 1% at best, that drifted with age
27:05 <MrMobodies> might be taking a risk
27:30 <Lemon> on paper it should work I think
27:32 <MrMobodies> maybe you could get a few of the old stock ones and the new ones and compare them
28:02 <MrMobodies> when I can't make up my mind sometimes i buy both
28:29 <Lemon> you are right yeah
28:31 <MrMobodies> if theyr inexpensive until I now
30:48 <Lemon> https://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/1746344712.htm/
30:50 <Lemon> look at this
30:57 <Lemon> it seems theres an hp 410 something
31:01 <Lemon> which is pretty nice
31:15 <Lemon> and the second one is a metrix, in ok shape, a bit dirty
31:19 <Lemon> for the price im tempted to buy both
31:27 <Lemon> 25 euros + maybe 8/10 for shipping
32:17 <Lemon> its a 410B
33:58 <MrMobodies> just had some salmon
34:51 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/zvNx2Ut.jpg
34:58 <MrMobodies> just turned it up
35:16 <Lemon> ho thanks :>
35:16 <MrMobodies> THe display looks a bit scratched
35:21 <Lemon> I was tilting my head haha
35:28 <Lemon> yeah but with some polish it can be restored
35:37 <Lemon> but its the first one, that im interested by the most
35:42 <Lemon> its both for that price !
36:01 <MrMobodies> Shame about the cosmetics
36:08 <MrMobodies> plastic cover I mean
36:36 <Lemon> im sure the metrix can be cleaned a bit
36:40 <Lemon> the first one seems pretty nice
36:54 <MrMobodies> or maybe polished
37:28 <Lemon> yeah and the first one, the hp 410b seems fine
37:33 <Lemon> this one is a really, really nice vtvm
37:41 <Lemon> and worth a lot more than that
37:59 <Lemon> soooo the shipping is free lol
38:05 <Lemon> well, im paying them 25 euros right now
38:11 <Lemon> maybe she'll ask for shipping later
38:13 <Lemon> she or he
38:43 <MrMobodies> I see you stocking up on gear
40:14 <MrMobodies> shipping doesn't bother me when I know what I am going to get
40:30 <MrMobodies> I might even pay more for extra packaging if it is priceless and hard to find
40:41 <Lemon> yeah im building myself a small lab, and I tend to jump on a nice deal if I can :>
41:54 <MrMobodies> one day that small lab will grow into a big lab
42:32 <MrMobodies> empty shelves not full shelves in a couple years
42:40 <MrMobodies> oops *now
42:57 <Lemon> hoo its already quite bad I fear xd
42:59 <MrMobodies> then it may get overcrowded with parts
43:15 <MrMobodies> nobody else will be will able to find things but you.
43:20 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
43:46 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:55 <Lemon> ok thanks internet
44:00 <Lemon> I was saying : hoo its already quite bad I fear xd
44:00 <Lemon> and you know that hp 410b
44:00 <Lemon> some consider it as the cadillac of vtvm's
44:00 <Lemon> I saw it going for 2-300 dollars on ebay
44:00 <Lemon> so 25 euros for both, in decent shape ?
44:00 <Lemon> im not questionning it
44:00 <Lemon> either way im not losing much
44:38 <MrMobodies> $25 sounds like a bargain
44:45 <MrMobodies> ooh euros sorry
45:08 <MrMobodies> that is like 1/12 of the price on ebay
45:18 <Lemon> and theres the metrix too !!
45:24 <Lemon> imagine if both are in decent shape
45:29 <Lemon> probably working
45:50 <Ampera> MrMobodies, making people hungry is one of the greatest feats I can hope to accomplish
46:32 <Lemon> alright I paid
46:43 <Lemon> I hope he'll send them properly :>
47:33 <MrMobodies> oh yeah i noticed
47:38 <MrMobodies> three times that happened to me
48:05 <MrMobodies> you saw something about cheese and well this time I got my appetite back
48:21 <MrMobodies> and had some Carte Door Ice cream and some Salmon
49:11 <MrMobodies> I think another week and this cold will be over
49:56 <MrMobodies> Just come across this on Ebay and makes me wonder how they have so many
49:57 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//223335246340
50:25 <Lemon> probably a surplus from a manufacturer
50:36 <MrMobodies> back from 20 years ago
50:40 <Lemon> pretty neat collectible
51:08 <MrMobodies> they were probably the ones that never made it in the STB factorys when they went into liquidation if they are not recycled
51:59 <Lemon> ha I found it https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1746188653.htm/
52:00 <MrMobodies> but I remember there was a recycling program to trade in them for like an entry level GeForce in 2002
52:04 <Lemon> the 40 euros one I told you earlier
53:32 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/MvHPBTJ.jpg
53:35 <MrMobodies> that looks trange
53:38 <Lemon> ho its made to measure AC volts from 3mv to 10 v
53:39 <Lemon> thats neat
53:48 <Lemon> https://www.opweb.de/francais/societe/Ferisol/5702
53:52 <MrMobodies> the probe thing
54:07 <Lemon> I dont really have a need for that but well
54:10 <Lemon> its a neat object
54:53 <MrMobodies> 52 years old
54:58 <MrMobodies> but I like the back of it
55:16 <Lemon> I received a HB multavi 5 today, I paid 16 euros with shipping for it !
55:22 <Lemon> and its in really nice shape
55:31 <Lemon> measures bang on too
55:34 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/xMnqJvy.jpg
55:40 <Lemon> its built like a freaking tank
55:51 <Lemon> yeahhh comes with tools !
56:29 <MrMobodies> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Multimeter_Multavi_II_01.jpg
56:33 <MrMobodies> look well built
56:49 <MrMobodies> and the copper terminals
56:50 <Lemon> this one is the 2 yeah
56:56 <Lemon> pretty neat model, like 1930 ?
57:02 <Lemon> I got the 5, maybe 1950 im not sure
57:22 <MrMobodies> it looks ahead of it's time
58:24 <MrMobodies> you got 5 that's many
58:28 <Lemon> they are really well made and impressively accurate
58:36 <Lemon> ho no, I got the multavi 5 :P
58:43 <Lemon> but well...
58:48 <Lemon> I fear I might get more haha
58:56 <Lemon> (if they are cheap)
59:26 <MrMobodies> Could you use them to cabilirate digital meters?
59:43 <Lemon> hmmm I think the other way around is more likely :>
59:57 <Lemon> when I say impressively accurate, that is for a volt ohm meter, especially of that era :>
00:05 <MrMobodies> I though they never needed much cabilbration
00:08 <Lemon> most of them are like, 2-3% DC, this one is maybe 1/2 ?
00:18 <Lemon> and yeah the multavi cant be calibrated
00:24 <Lemon> my micronta can, on the other hand
00:31 <Lemon> it got like 4 trimpots I never touched
02:20 <MrMobodies> 4 adjustment knobs that never got touch and still accurate
03:07 <MrMobodies> I am going to burn some rubbish, and when I back, I will be make hot water with lemons and honey this time to clear my nose
04:23 <MrMobodies> oh and thanks for showing what you buy
04:31 <Lemon> thats a good thing :>
04:43 <MrMobodies> I learn more
04:43 <Lemon> hooo thanks to you for chatting with me and listenning !
04:55 <Lemon> im going to sleep, I'll tell you tommorow how it goes :P
05:26 <MrMobodies> that'll be nice and goot nighty
06:21 <Lemon> bye bud thanks !
20:41 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
28:20 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Flash Sale! Today only. 25% off the EEVblog store: https://t.co/UwWG0iNNSI Use code "FlashSale"
29:20 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Real-Time: @TubeTimeUS Oops forgot pic. https://t.co/L2CifOyQC2
18:40 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Engineers are inherently optimisation beasts. That is all.
09:03 <T3sl4> Meow. https://imgur.com/gallery/LT0cF0t
31:11 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: One of the school groups that got their 3 x Amazon BM235's https://t.co/RUTUcHdBZr
26:59 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
27:48 <Ysjoelfir> Hi
32:46 * T3sl4 beers Ysjoelfir
32:57 <Ysjoelfir> yay, beer at work! <3
33:38 <T3sl4> can be a good lunch idea
33:45 <T3sl4> (but not usually :P )
33:56 <Ysjoelfir> true :)
34:01 * T3sl4 is back from karaoke
34:16 <Ysjoelfir> what did you sing?
35:09 <T3sl4> uhhh, several things
37:24 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! A Good Cheap Podcasting Microphone? https://t.co/nTqDJPUyPh
38:30 <T3sl4> my set list was uhh: Marcy Playground - Sex and Candy; Slayer - Seasons in the Abyss; Shinedown - 45; Tenacious D - Fuck Her Gently; Drowning Pool - Bodies; REM - Losing My Religion
38:58 <Ysjoelfir> That is a rather interesting mix
41:46 <T3sl4> fairly random sampling from my repertoire, i guess
43:07 <Ysjoelfir> doesn't sound to bad :)
43:50 <T3sl4> mostly 90s-00s metal/grunge/alt songs, very much typical of a 30-somethings bar
44:45 <Ysjoelfir> it looks pretty much like my kind of music. though I am not very picky, I just don't enjoy rap or hiphop, most other music is fine
45:18 <T3sl4> and for that matter, it's the pop rap/hop that's shit, as is any other kind of pop
45:41 <T3sl4> i'll do beastie boys from time to time, which...isn't really saying much, that's still very white af :P
26:06 <Ysjoelfir> xD
26:15 <Ysjoelfir> I sometimes listen to 90s pop
26:24 <Ysjoelfir> because that's what I grew up with, so...
00:24 Quit: qeed ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
03:50 Quit: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) Connection closed
03:55 Join: Spark_Ga_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:00 <Halcyon> Evening all
04:04 Join: qeed ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:14 <Halcyon> How you doing Ysjoelfir ?
05:08 <Ysjoelfir> Hi Halcyon :) I'm fine, thanks. A little bit nervous, today at 1700 we have the appointment with the house owners
05:23 <Halcyon> Oh yeh?
05:26 <Ysjoelfir> yes
05:51 <Ysjoelfir> I still can't believe that we found a house that is bigger AND cheaper than our 3 room flat...
06:39 <Ysjoelfir> how about you?
06:56 <Ysjoelfir> back from a hard day of work, relaxing with a glass of wine? :)
06:57 <Halcyon> I'm well now that the week is over
08:24 * Ysjoelfir is writing on the last details for his bachelors thesis
10:40 <Ysjoelfir> And I finally found a nice way to rest my headphones :)
10:42 <Ysjoelfir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EcGD7PHs11nC4QKvgY-U10LaiQxuj7gm/view?usp=sharing
14:26 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
18:06 <Halcyon> Hahah
18:11 <Halcyon> Mushroom mushroom
19:31 <Ysjoelfir> Nice, isn't it? I found that thing in the trash of the neigbors and I instantly wanted it^^
24:55 <Halcyon> It's random
25:26 <Ysjoelfir> isn't it?
25:35 <Ysjoelfir> I like it more than those glass heads
27:58 Quit: Spark_Ga_ ([email protected]) Connection closed
43:10 <Halcyon> So what else is new?
43:22 <Halcyon> Oooh new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuusX-IiDck
49:06 <Ysjoelfir> Here? Not much actually. Waiting for the lunch break as I'm hungry as hell
49:30 <Halcyon> I'm making beef stroganoff with pasta for dinner
49:50 <Ysjoelfir> oh, and my mum gifted me new cushions for my 1€ headphones.
50:02 <Ysjoelfir> That is nice, I love beef stroganoff
50:17 <Halcyon> :) Of course with added chilli :P
50:25 <Ysjoelfir> Sadly, the freezer here at work doesn't have any more of that :(
53:10 <Halcyon> Naww
53:21 <Halcyon> If only frozen food lasted longer in the post
53:29 <Halcyon> We could have an international cook-off
53:42 <Ysjoelfir> haha :D That would be nice.
54:13 <Halcyon> I guess freeze drying would be a thing?
54:57 <Ysjoelfir> The question is, how does it taste after that?
55:03 <Halcyon> *shrug*
55:07 <Ysjoelfir> meeeeh, brb
55:12 <Halcyon> Or home canning?
55:14 <Halcyon> Maybe?
58:08 Join: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:10 <Ysjoelfir> re.
00:17 <Ysjoelfir> heard the alarm of my car screaming...
00:53 <Ysjoelfir> there are workers on the roof and those idiots threw down some rubber mats instead of using their crane. one flew onto my car -.-
01:08 <Halcyon> Fantastic
01:10 <Halcyon> What fuckwits
01:18 <Ysjoelfir> but yeah, home canning would be a great idea! I always wanted to try that
01:24 <Halcyon> Who would have thought rubber bounces
02:04 <Ysjoelfir> nobody could ever have thought that
03:05 <Ysjoelfir> are u fucking kidding me, it's screaming again
03:06 <Ysjoelfir> brb
09:59 <Halcyon> I'm off to start dinner, back soon
16:43 <Ysjoelfir> those idiots.... have a nice meal Halcyon :)
25:07 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
25:14 <Lemon> hello guys
25:22 <Lemon> and gurls
25:24 <Ysjoelfir> hi Apple
25:31 <Lemon> im sad dude
25:49 * Ysjoelfir waits for the day Lemon joins with the username "Various_Fruits"
25:52 <Lemon> but somehow, I knew it would be that
25:54 <Ysjoelfir> why?
25:57 <Lemon> haha heh why not
26:00 * Ysjoelfir pats sad Lemon on the shoulder
26:06 <Lemon> well yesterday, on my dear leboncoin.fr
26:08 <Lemon> I see what ?
26:14 <Ysjoelfir> HP 3458!
26:18 <Ysjoelfir> for 20€!
26:26 <Lemon> a decently shaped hp 410B with a random metrix eletronic volt meter !
26:31 <Lemon> for how much ? 25 euros
26:40 <Lemon> and he accepts the paiement via leboncoin !
26:47 <Lemon> so what ? I directly pay for it, I ask no questions
26:50 <Ysjoelfir> Well, thats nearly as great as the 3458 :)
26:53 <Lemon> the 410b is fairly rare and well regarded
26:59 <Lemon> and the metrix looks great too !
27:08 <Lemon> but idk why it seemed too good and this morning
27:36 <Lemon> 'please pay me with a cheque or bank transfer, and also I dont have a printer, so do the paper yourself to send it'
27:44 <Lemon> 'and add 20 euros for shipping, via bank transfer'
27:51 <Lemon> I never do either of those, ofc its unsecure af
28:08 <Lemon> the built in paiement service is perfect, but frenchies are weird for that...
28:10 <Lemon> dont ask me why
28:30 <Lemon> I told him 'but you said you accepted the inbuilt paiement system ? I already paid'
28:35 <Lemon> 'its a mistake blabla'
28:48 <Lemon> so I took him to cancel it and got my money back
28:52 <Lemon> but damn im sad I wanted them !
29:06 <Ysjoelfir> Drive over and pick it up? :D
29:09 <Lemon> why is it always like this, first the 30 euros fluke 45, then the 75 euros prema 6000, then that :(
29:13 <Lemon> its too far sadly
29:20 <Lemon> 5-6 hours by car I cant do that
29:25 <Ysjoelfir> meh. thats bad
29:35 <Lemon> well I think about the good scores I did :>
29:39 <Lemon> which is great
29:52 <Lemon> but damnnnn I wanted a good vtvm, that 410b is regarded as the best or one of the best !!
30:36 <Lemon> vtvms got an insanely high input impedance, which is perfect to avoid loading a circuit, and they can measure up to 500/1000 meg ohms
30:57 <Ysjoelfir> I like vtvm. Have myself a rather nice one
31:06 <Lemon> hooo neat ! which one ?
32:19 <Ysjoelfir> It doesn't have a name. It's a.... erm... let me google the word
32:41 <Lemon> I hope the dude will accept my offer for the aoip wattmeter today
32:51 <Lemon> I really want this piece, its nice to have I'll use it a lot im sure
33:16 <Lemon> he wanted 60 with shipping, im asking 40 with :>
33:27 <Ysjoelfir> it's a final project from a school for qualified foremans (Meisterschule in german)
35:31 <Lemon> hoooo thats even neater !!
35:41 <Lemon> when you can take a picture, I'll be interested :>
35:48 <Ysjoelfir> in that school the guys that worked for Grundig were educated^^
36:01 <Ysjoelfir> I can, if I remember to take one this evening
36:07 <Ysjoelfir> remind me if I forget
36:54 <Lemon> thats impressive :> sure !
38:00 <Lemon> btw, out of your HB collection
38:10 <Lemon> which one is the most accurate, favourite of yours ?
39:25 <Ysjoelfir> I realy like the multavi HO. But the Multavi 2 is even neater, but it lacks the ohms range.
40:10 Join: HarryWales ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
40:21 <Lemon> I admit they are cool !
41:40 <Lemon> but yeah I need a nice vtvm :>
41:58 <Ysjoelfir> why not building one yourself?
42:02 <Ysjoelfir> it's not that hard :)
42:07 <Lemon> after that honestly, unless I discover something, I'll probably have all I need, the rest will be purely for fun/collection
42:19 <Lemon> thats true yes, but id rather first have one, then build one :>
42:31 Quit: Spark_Gap ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving...
46:34 <Lemon> I need to figure how to calibrate my micronta :> theres 4 trimpots, but I dont want to try them blindly
46:48 <Ysjoelfir> that would indeed be a bad idea
47:10 <Lemon> its a 22-204B
47:19 <Lemon> I found the manual for the A or C version, they seem similar
47:35 Quit: HarryWales ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
49:46 <Ysjoelfir> then there should be information for what they are, shouldnt it?
49:56 <Lemon> I cant find it :/
51:08 <Lemon> I was thinking about something btw
51:25 <Lemon> if I were to replace every resistors in a VOM with tight tolerance ones, like 0.1% and low tempco
51:32 <Lemon> accuracy should be better right ?
52:52 <Ysjoelfir> if you adjust it afterwards I would expect that, yes. but usually it's not worth the hassle
53:30 <Lemon> yeah it will depend on the size and scales of the meter itself too I guess
55:00 <Lemon> yesss he accepted 40 euros with shipping for the wattmeter !!
55:29 <Lemon> the voltmeter part works, so I guess the rest works too, and if it doesnt I'll fix it :>
03:07 <Ysjoelfir> go for it :)
05:10 <Ysjoelfir> https://youtu.be/cygx0Ng6qMk?t=998 aaah, I just love those french guys with their strange language :D
07:04 <Lemon> sacrebleu !!
07:27 <Ysjoelfir> :D
07:57 <coppice_> Ysjoelfir: at least this French guy had the good sense to learn fluent English
08:18 <Ysjoelfir> you mean unlike the brittish? ;-P
08:21 <Ysjoelfir> -t
08:56 <coppice_> We all know the world's lingua franca is English
09:17 <Ysjoelfir> or... ok, brits usually claim that their english is the one and only true english. so... unlike those american bastards or even those australian skanks? :D
09:27 <Lemon> well, most frenchies dont know how to speak english sadly x)
09:57 <coppice_> The French who do speak English tend to have a dim view of the ones who refuse to learn it
10:32 <Ysjoelfir> I noticed that when I was looking for a special SNES version and found one in france... wrote to that guy in english, he responded in french. I was like "...dafuk? y u no speak english!?"
10:41 <Lemon> ho well it just reflects how most are, 'ho I dont know how to do that, I dont know that blabla' they simply refuse to learn anything and please themselves being ignorant
11:14 <Lemon> its easier to act like that :>
12:16 <Ysjoelfir> and then you french guys wonder why the world thinks that most folks down there act like they have a baguette in their ass :D
12:44 <Lemon> ho trust me I dont wonder why xd
13:13 <Ysjoelfir> by the way... why is magic wand translated to baguette de la magique?
13:25 <Lemon> baguette magique :>
13:37 <Ysjoelfir> but why?
13:55 <Ysjoelfir> and why is bread pain for you? :D
13:58 <Lemon> hmm well a baguette (fine stick of bread) is the same word as a stick of wood for example
14:04 <Lemon> bread pain ?
14:10 <Lemon> bread = pain for us :>
14:19 <coppice_> Ysjoelfir: try grabbing a loaf striaght from the oven
14:20 <Lemon> pain in english means douleur in french
14:28 <Ysjoelfir> haha :D that could be the reason
19:15 <Ysjoelfir> to bad that none of you guys can read german. I would love to have someone with technical knowledge who was not involved in the thematic to proof-read that before I give it to the professor for grading.
19:47 <Lemon> I can somewhat read it, but thats it :>
19:58 <Lemon> I learnt at school but forgot everything
20:05 <Lemon> I prefered english x)
20:26 <Ysjoelfir> I would have written the thesis in english, but the university wants it in german >_>
21:54 <Lemon> mamalala is german, I think he'll be there this weekend :>
23:31 <Halcyon> Back
23:34 <Halcyon> Dinner was delicious
23:44 <coppice_> Ysjoelfir: is that a course by course thing, or a university by university thing? Lots of German theses are in English
23:45 <Ysjoelfir> I have expected that
24:01 <Ysjoelfir> It's a "My university is a piece of shit"-thing
24:59 <Ysjoelfir> I think the topic of the thesis is rather interesting, so I would love to publish it - but in german... nah. that's not realy usefull imho
26:02 <coppice_> well, it has to be in German, or all those bilingual Germans who might want to read it will have problems
27:08 <Ysjoelfir> absolutely. especially since english is a neccessary school subject since fifth grade for more than.... hmm... 20 years now?
27:22 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Kurtis Unger: @eevblog Spreading negative feedback around the globe! @brcknet https://t.co/rzcB3ladPC
27:56 <coppice_> well, there are some educated Germans who would have trouble with English - older East Germans
28:10 <Ysjoelfir> that is true
29:04 <Ysjoelfir> but even those are slowly dieing. you can't get around english in a technical environment imho
29:39 <coppice_> Its surprising how well the Japanese and Chinese manage to :)
30:24 <Ysjoelfir> well, thats true
30:44 <Ysjoelfir> more for the chinese as for the japanese i think, but basically... yes. they manage to.
32:58 <coppice_> I have had more issues in Japan than China
33:44 <Ysjoelfir> really? I would never have thought that. But I have never been to any of those countries, that was just my impression from "outside"
33:47 <Halcyon> I miss Ampera
33:55 <Ysjoelfir> Where is he?
34:01 <Halcyon> He started a job this week
34:10 <Ysjoelfir> nice, where?
34:33 <Halcyon> Near where he lives, doing some kind of R&D type stuff I think
35:14 <Halcyon> It's early morning where he is so I'm guessing he is still in bed about to start his Friday
35:18 <Ysjoelfir> cool :) hope he gets some joy from this job
35:31 <Halcyon> I hope so too, he's very clever
35:41 <Halcyon> His talents would be wasted doing nothing
36:21 <Lemon> I dream one day to be able to live from my passion
36:28 <Lemon> work in a nice place, doing electronics for a living
36:37 <Lemon> I dont seek tons of money, just what is needed to live
36:40 <Halcyon> I've decided I don't want to work for a company or the Government anymore
36:45 <Halcyon> I want to run my own business
36:57 <Halcyon> I am sick of incompetent managers
37:16 <Ysjoelfir> Huh? I always thought you were rather happy with your job?
37:30 <Halcyon> I was but a lot has changed in the last 12 months
37:42 <Halcyon> And management have only become more out of touch and inept
38:03 <Ysjoelfir> thats sad to hear
38:14 <Halcyon> The whole sneaking around, secret squirrel stuff does get quite taxing too
38:26 <Halcyon> I feel as though I can never really switch off
39:13 <Halcyon> I haven't had a proper holiday for about 5 years
39:44 <Halcyon> I am taking 4 weeks of leave this year and all of it is either filled with alternative employment or university
40:27 <Ysjoelfir> that sounds realy bad oO
40:34 <Halcyon> Uhuh
40:40 <Ysjoelfir> I'm sorry to hear that :(
40:44 <Halcyon> I'm honestly exhausted
40:58 <Halcyon> But oh well :)
41:41 <Ysjoelfir> "Just" fly over to germany in your vacation. IF we can get that house we will have a guest room :)
42:08 <Halcyon> Hah as I said, I don't think I'll actually have proper leave until next year
42:27 <Halcyon> But at least by then I will have finished my Master's degree
43:17 <Ysjoelfir> what masters course are you working on? I'm a bit worried of my education after the bachelor since there aren't that many masters to chose from around here
43:24 <Halcyon> Cyber Security
43:45 <Halcyon> I'm also considering doing my Master's in Business Administration
43:46 <Ysjoelfir> nice :) one of my workmates is also studying that
44:02 <Halcyon> I also teach it at the same uni I am a student at
44:42 <Ysjoelfir> I did the same for the Metrology Lab. It feels somehow weird, but is a lot of fun teaching to other students
44:50 <Halcyon> Absolutely
44:56 <Lemon> if I can ask, how old are you guys ?
45:03 <Halcyon> Early 30's
45:37 <Ysjoelfir> 29
45:39 <coppice_> Wifey has an MBA. I wouldn't let her administer any business
45:48 <Lemon> hooo I aint that younger, im almost 27
46:05 <Ysjoelfir> well, I'm 30 in one month and 3 days...
46:10 <Halcyon> coppice_: My Senior Sergeant at work has an MBA, I am almost convinced he is literally losing the plot
46:11 <Lemon> but im dead serious when I say im reconverting myself to electronics
46:29 <Lemon> I just have a baccalaureat, which is the common exam you pass at 18 y/o or so
46:33 <Ysjoelfir> coppice_: a friend of mine is studying MBA.... damn, he
46:35 <Ysjoelfir> ..
46:40 <Lemon> nothing else as I was quite unmature before
46:40 <Ysjoelfir> damn return key
46:56 <Halcyon> There is a subject called "Toxic Leadership" and he is a textbook case of everything that subject describes
47:04 <Ysjoelfir> *Damn, he's such an idiot in that regards. He don't understand a thing
47:35 <Ysjoelfir> I would love to read that. sounds like a "fun" experience
48:02 <Lemon> peeps keep telling me to get the art of electronics
48:15 <Lemon> would it be a nice book to teach me anything I need ? starting from the basics ?
48:28 <Lemon> I cant find a school for electronics in france
48:34 <Halcyon> Never read it
48:37 <Lemon> theres only one which is too expensive and far
48:41 <Ysjoelfir> I have never read that. I just started fiddling around with stuff, that worked for me :)
48:50 <Ysjoelfir> sometimes stuff goes boom, but hey. you learn from pain^^
49:03 <Lemon> yeah gladly I had my father before :>
49:14 <Lemon> but now he's not there anymore im kinda left on my own !
49:19 <Halcyon> :(
49:21 <Lemon> I have you which is neat :> I appreciate it a lot
49:23 <Ysjoelfir> same here.
49:25 <Halcyon> Yeh I learnt a lot from my father
49:30 <Halcyon> He worked as an EE at Sharp
49:38 <Halcyon> Back in the 80's and 90's
49:46 <Halcyon> He taught me how to solder
49:57 <coppice_> Sharp was a fine company. How did they let it collapse?
50:05 <Lemon> wow pretty neat ! mine started 40 years ago, learning from various books, etc and started to work there and there for medical machines, airbus, big factories etc
50:10 <Halcyon> Other companies made cheaper crap in China
50:22 <Ysjoelfir> My father was an electrician, but tought himself very much about electronics. I was sitting on his lap since I was 10, soldering, tinkerung and so on.
50:22 <Halcyon> Sharp made great products but they weren't cheap
50:34 <Ysjoelfir> indeed. now sharp is just a shadow of their former glory
50:40 <Halcyon> It's a real shame
50:41 <coppice_> That's not the reason at all. e.g. it was LG and Samsung that wrecked their world leading LCD business
50:44 <Lemon> Ysjoelfir sameee ! I remember playing with those tiny components :> at 5/6
51:05 <Halcyon> Well Sharp still make LCDs from what I know, but it's all commercial gear now
51:10 <Halcyon> No consumer products
51:15 <Ysjoelfir> they build the TVs for the german noble brand Loewe nowadays.
51:36 <Ysjoelfir> Loewe just puts their case around it and writes "made in Germany" on it
51:37 <Lemon> my father was collecting pocket computers of all sort :>
51:44 <Halcyon> I still have plenty of Sharp products here, including my microwave, ViewCam and personal organisers
51:47 <Lemon> tandys, sharp, casio, psion etc
52:09 <coppice_> If you buy a Sharp TV now its made by someone else that has licenced the Sharp name
52:14 <Halcyon> Yep
52:24 <Halcyon> Sharp stopped making consumer LCDs about 5-6 years ago
52:41 <coppice_> Sharp BUILT the LCD TV market
52:41 <Halcyon> Which is a real shame, they were fantastic
52:50 <Ysjoelfir> Lemon: mine didn't collect anything, which is a bit strange considering that I love to collect stuff. wonder where I have got that from. Except if you count fishes and aquarium stuff as collections
53:12 <Ysjoelfir> oh, ok, I don't know about the last ~7 years in TV stuff. Stopped working in that field then :)
53:18 <Lemon> that counts haha but yeah I see, my mother wasnt collecting anything either
53:31 <Halcyon> I inherited my Uncle's video camera after he died, it still had a Hi-8 video tape in it, works perfectly
53:32 <Lemon> and he wouldnt consider it as a collection, he liked to have new ones thats all x)
53:36 <Ysjoelfir> so let me correct that: they once built the TVs for Loewe^^
53:39 <Halcyon> No degradation in the picture.
54:09 <Ysjoelfir> I have (had?) one of those, too, Halcyon! Found an old video of me as a baby on it :)
54:14 <Lemon> on another subject, I have a question guys
54:36 <Lemon> do you know if standalone continuty testers are good ? im tired of slowass continuity built in my tek
54:45 <Lemon> I saw one, the https://www.amazon.fr/Testboy-20-continuit%C3%A9-Acoustique-Allemagne/dp/B002TLW4YI/ref=sr_1_23?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=testboy&qid=1581072241&sr=8-23
54:55 <Halcyon> I just use my 121GW
54:56 <Lemon> I wonder if its really uber fast or not
55:32 <Ysjoelfir> the good old testboy. have never owned one, but apparently they are quite nice.
55:40 <Ysjoelfir> but regarding speed - no idea
56:01 <Lemon> I wouldnt mind paying 35 euros for one if its really working perfectly
56:08 <Ysjoelfir> but i understand your pain - my HP erm Agilent erm Keyfuck meters are slow as hell in their autoranging...
56:12 <Lemon> I use the tek ths710a
56:19 <Lemon> which isnt the best, its a bigass handheld
56:41 <Lemon> I saw they sell for around 500 euros now !
56:44 <Lemon> thats impressive
56:56 <Lemon> the battery is dead, I will rebuild it later
57:06 <Lemon> my father got it when he left a firm he was working for I think
58:37 <Lemon> I must admit im quite happy with my lab
58:47 <Lemon> im still well under the budget I wanted to spend
58:56 <Lemon> and im close to have everything I need to begin well
59:32 <Lemon> I wanted it to stay under 1k euros, Im at around 600 I think
59:43 <Lemon> and I havent sold my laptop yet so its perfect
00:04 <Lemon> and thats thanks to you guys, you are helping me everyday with my choices !
00:17 <Lemon> and bearing with my tons of questions haha
00:58 <Ysjoelfir> That's what fellow Nerds are for :) We like to help each other
01:28 <Lemon> I always helped when I could, thats nice sometimes to be helped :>
03:36 <K> hello
03:42 <Ysjoelfir> hello
03:43 <Ysjoelfir> K
05:06 <Halcyon> Gees, they are predicting up to 250mm of rain tomorrow
05:27 <K> raining cats and dogs
05:32 <Halcyon> Indeed
05:57 <Halcyon> It seems to have abated, for now: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR713.loop.shtml#skip
05:58 <coppice_> that should put some fires out
06:40 <Halcyon> Oh there is hardly anything burning anymore
08:03 <Lemon> hello K
08:56 <rust_collector> mornings
09:04 <Halcyon> Morning rust_collector
09:09 <Lemon> ho btw do you have an idea on how I could redo the serigraphy on the chinese lcr meter ?
09:11 <Lemon> hey rusty
10:33 <rust_collector> letraset? that should work. maybe annoying, but
11:07 <Lemon> never heard of it, but it will be expensive no ?
11:17 <Lemon> if it can be a diy thing that would be nice
11:27 <coppice_> does letraset still exist?
11:59 <rust_collector> Not sure if the company still exists, but I bet you can get letters and stuff
13:12 <Ysjoelfir> I'm using that stuff, too, but I have quite some of those letters in my little stockpile. It's not that annoying if you take your time
13:27 <Lemon> how does it work exactly ?
13:32 <Lemon> I never heard of it before
13:52 <Halcyon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letraset
13:57 <Halcyon> I remember those when I was a kid
14:30 <Lemon> hoo alright Ithink it will be too big
14:36 <K> heh, i remember those
16:12 <Halcyon> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Letraset-Mecanorama-Transfers-Rub-Off-Letters-9-5-mm-France/123805375512?hash=item1cd3601c18:g:XcUAAOSwEAtdB5Yz
17:33 <Lemon> its too big im afraid, I think I need maybe 4-5mm max
17:39 <Halcyon> Still cool
17:45 <Lemon> yeah quite !
17:46 <Halcyon> I remember rubbing the letters off
17:59 <Halcyon> It seems there is a huge collectors market for them
18:30 <coppice_> people collect the weirdest things
18:43 <Halcyon> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pantone-by-Letraset-Tria-Markers/193197586240?hash=item2cfb793740:g:-lgAAOSw6S5dsbbF
18:47 <Halcyon> They even made markers
18:50 <Halcyon> There you go
18:52 <rust_collector> some people collect all the weirdness on their own
19:22 <coppice_> Letraset seemed to be a one product company throughout their life. That's an unusual thing
19:56 <coppice_> oh, they made markers. I never saw those
20:12 <Halcyon> The adapter tip is a neat idea
20:23 <Halcyon> Turns a wide felt tip into a fine point
20:38 <rust_collector> Hmm, now that I think about it, I think you can get "diy decals" where you get a sheet you can print stuff, cut it out, put in water, and slide the film over, curl it up, and start over
21:18 <Lemon> I thought about those yeah
21:28 <Lemon> well I dont know, I think I'll see when I receive the meter
21:41 <Lemon> ho btw rusty about the wattmeter
21:52 <Lemon> the dude accepted 40 euros with shipping :> instead of 60
22:41 <Halcyon> \o/
22:59 <rust_collector> I guess, by now you are starting to understand that people really want to get rid of that old crap? one give you half price off, one gives you a second device...
23:05 <Lemon> thats pretty neat, it seems to be a rare piece theres no info on the net
23:24 <Lemon> haha yes ! thats good for me :>
23:28 <Lemon> but yesterday dude
23:38 <Lemon> 25 euros for a hp 410b and a metrix vtvm...
23:59 <Lemon> I paid instantly and this morning he told me he didnt accept paypal, the shipping was an extra 20 euros, blabla so he refunded me
24:02 <Lemon> I was a bit sad
24:15 <coppice_> there's a thin line between "highly valued by collectors" and "throw it in the bin"
24:16 <Lemon> the 410b is considered as one of the best vtvm
24:29 <Lemon> yeah thats the same for about every collections
25:34 <Lemon> I want a good vtvm, its a nice thing to have for some troubleshooting
25:42 <Lemon> but as always I dont want to pay a ton for it
25:48 <Lemon> I'll wait a good deal
27:22 <Lemon> but as I said ealier im quite happy of the current state of the lab, im still under the budget I wanted to allocate
32:23 * Ysjoelfir leaves for lunch
32:46 <Lemon> bon appetit !
40:16 * Ampera licks Halcyon 
40:55 <K> ooh, he's a licker!
41:15 <K> that didn't sound right.
48:42 * Ysjoelfir returned with two plants and no food
49:08 <rust_collector> that makes sense???
50:28 <rust_collector> did you do something very clever, and need flowers to be allowed inside again?
50:34 <Ysjoelfir> Well, they were the last two. looked a bit sad and were cheap because of that. So I decided to take them to make my workspace again a bit nicer :)
50:42 <Ysjoelfir> xD no
51:01 <Ysjoelfir> it's just a green lily and.... another.... soft grass like thing, whatever that is
51:04 <K> Ysjoelfir, i read that as "wit no pants and no food"
51:20 <Ysjoelfir> xD
51:32 * Ysjoelfir looks down
51:40 <Ysjoelfir> pants are where they should be
52:02 <Ysjoelfir> Now I just have one minor problem.
52:49 <rust_collector> I guess you have to order your kebab
52:52 <Ysjoelfir> I want to plant those plants into a pot that holds my Mr. Carlsons Lab calender. What should I use instead to hold that?
53:12 <Ysjoelfir> Nah. I'll be fine, we have some food at home :)
53:30 <rust_collector> so why did you go to get food???
53:37 <rust_collector> something is not right here
54:14 <Ysjoelfir> XD I wanted food for lunch. I'm at work. but this evening I can have food at home :)
54:29 <rust_collector> well yes...
55:13 <rust_collector> do you get 2 plants worth of lunch money, from swmbo?
56:10 <Ysjoelfir> I got 2 plants worth of lunch money from my own money :) SWMBO has enough plants at home and needs her money for her own lunch :D
57:03 <rust_collector> I still think you should have bought a food
58:17 <Ysjoelfir> if I'm starving I could get ice from the factory freezer :)
58:25 <Ysjoelfir> or just lick my car
58:42 <rust_collector> mmkay
58:47 <Ysjoelfir> Also, I still have some Butterkekse
59:35 <rust_collector> I will be here all day, mentioning nice roasted meat, full or fat and goodness
01:07 <Lemon> I go to the dentist this afternoon :((
01:15 <rust_collector> YAAY!
01:21 <Lemon> :(((
01:40 <rust_collector> meh, it will be good
05:57 <Lemon> I'll try not to shit myself
06:24 <rust_collector> it is not that exciting.
08:48 <Ysjoelfir> That sounds great rusty, tell me and lemon more about that!
09:29 <rust_collector> Yes, I should tell him about all the things he won't be able to chew later today...
09:49 <rust_collector> I still think kebab is on top of the list
09:55 <Ysjoelfir> absolutely
10:37 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
10:45 <rust_collector> hah, ok
10:46 <Ysjoelfir> that was to much for him xD
11:40 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:00 <rust_collector> ooh, here comes the angry man
13:31 <Ysjoelfir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ei5m9gcmzizcaFqB0PB8oAc2c_gHUkhp/view?usp=sharing
13:37 <Ysjoelfir> I would say that is ok-ish
13:45 <Ysjoelfir> for someone that has no plan about plants
13:50 <Ysjoelfir> but it looks nice :)
14:11 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/KEESIN-Banane-Plaqu%C3%A9-Haut-Parleur-Connecteur/dp/B01N563LLU/ref=pd_aw_sbs_107_5/258-4253929-9339311?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01N563LLU&pd_rd_r=015e83bf-8390-435d-9738-d159d7b1ec4b&pd_rd_w=dP6yB&pd_rd_wg=cj4Bf&pf_rd_p=acbc774d-f175-4289-8adf-0211d46bb96f&pf_rd_r=Z75VXMAW56AEK2A9CSKM&psc=1&refRID=Z75VXMAW56AEK2A9CSKM are thos
14:11 <Lemon> e good enough for some diy interconnect leads ?
14:26 <Lemon> ha no im dumb, I need some with the female on top
14:30 <Lemon> to connect multiple leads
14:31 <rust_collector> just wait until it grows a bit. it will be nice
14:42 <Ysjoelfir> I doubt it. take a look at the plating quality
14:44 <Ysjoelfir> wait
15:04 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Akozon-Banane-Tension-Double-Multim%C3%A8tre/dp/B07HF5CZ1R/ref=pd_aw_sbs_60_3/258-4253929-9339311?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07HF5CZ1R&pd_rd_r=7a1023bb-cedf-49fe-b1e3-3ce6ab18716a&pd_rd_w=S2Q6d&pd_rd_wg=2LH3N&pf_rd_p=acbc774d-f175-4289-8adf-0211d46bb96f&pf_rd_r=V1F1SV4CXNRRR2YJDV6Z&psc=1&refRID=V1F1SV4CXNRRR2YJDV6Z
15:10 <Lemon> I need that kind but in red/black only
15:11 <Ysjoelfir> since you are in france you could order stuff from good old germany rather cheap, right?
15:12 <Lemon> I hate other colors
15:20 <Lemon> hmm thats doable usually
15:32 <Ysjoelfir> take a look at Schützinger cables
15:37 <Ysjoelfir> or even better, Multicontact
16:02 <Ysjoelfir> I'm excited to see IF it grows at all rusty XD
16:37 <rust_collector> some people sing to their plants. maybe you should try that?
17:45 <Ysjoelfir> I did that to tomatoes back in the days when we had a camping place.
19:02 <Ysjoelfir> oh, by the way Strawberry: Do you remember the Telefunken Headphones I showed you? those with the once white ear cushions where I was looking for replacements?
19:21 <Lemon> they look nice but I cant find some for sale with decent shipping
19:29 <Ysjoelfir> meh.
19:32 <Lemon> ha yeah I remember !
19:43 <Ampera> aardvark
20:14 <Ysjoelfir> I just couldn't find information about the size of replacement earpads for several headphones so I just bought generic ones.
20:14 <Ysjoelfir> they
20:15 <Ysjoelfir> are
20:18 <Ysjoelfir> gorgeous!
20:25 <Ampera> it's friday ladies, my last day of work until monday
20:26 <Lemon> hooo thats perfect ! :> good job
20:38 <rust_collector> first week
20:46 <Ampera> it's gone fairly well too
20:55 <Ysjoelfir> take a look: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EjoEVB3tlZg6Ir2ZZWrFNPXbPSdbJVNk/view?usp=sharing
21:12 <Ysjoelfir> they are so damn fluffy https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Eu5LdDsK2e2hmPpIBoD9wwlLanTY-N60/view?usp=sharing
22:16 <Lemon> hoo I love those ! I have the same kind on my gaming headphones :>
22:29 <Ysjoelfir> Oh hi ampera, didn't notice you are back :) how was work?
22:29 <Lemon> I prefer that over leather for long periods
22:38 <Ampera> it's 7:22 in the morning
22:40 <Ampera> I'm about to go to it
22:43 <Ysjoelfir> oh
22:45 <Ysjoelfir> :D
22:45 <Lemon> btw, https://www.atlantique-composants.fr/ProductCard/KCBE425N/cordon-securite-4mm-25cm-noir?pintHeadingID=6&pstrMenusID=6_3_3 those fit on regular banana connectors right ?
23:32 <Ysjoelfir> I doubt it - these are that stupid security connectors. I tend to cut off the "security" part of it to use it on all my gear
23:42 <Ysjoelfir> just remember to not grad an open plug...
23:54 <Lemon> the outlay isnt compatible ? it seems to work but I never tried
23:58 <Ysjoelfir> So when will you be back Ampera?
24:16 <Ampera> close to +10 hours from now
24:32 <Ampera> maybe add 30-50 minutes because I need to go to Aldi afterwards
24:42 <Ysjoelfir> Lemon: nope. It's 4mm, but that skirt around the male part doesn't let you plug it into non-security bananas
24:49 <Lemon> ha shiet
25:04 <Ysjoelfir> Ampera: so I will stay up late to hear how work was :P
25:10 <Ampera> lol
25:15 <Lemon> voltcraft is a decent brand ?
25:18 <Ampera> It's been fine
25:57 <Ysjoelfir> it's... ok, Lemon. It is the brand of Conrad Elektronik in Germany, sometimes they rebadge great stuff, sometimes crap. but it is usually more expensive then the generic stuff
26:07 <Ysjoelfir> So you like it Ampera?
26:13 <Lemon> im looking on conrad.fr :>
26:55 <Lemon> I need two banana to crocodile for my supply, some banana male to male with female on it to put for example dmm + wattmeter + leads
27:04 <Lemon> and one or two set of test leads too
27:07 <Lemon> I have only one right now
27:13 <Lemon> for scope probes im good
27:36 <Ampera> It's a job. It pays well.
27:41 <Ysjoelfir> do you want the stuff NOW? or is it ok to take some time? I wanted to order some sets of test leads from china and see if I can find a decent quality one. after that I could recommend you some
27:42 <Ampera> anyways I need to go now, ciao
27:49 <Ysjoelfir> have fun :)
27:59 <Lemon> well I admit I kinda need them soon :>
28:21 <Lemon> im struggling with my shitty crocodile leads that slips
29:26 <Ysjoelfir> wait.
30:26 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.digikey.de/products/en/test-and-measurement/test-leads-banana-meter-interface/627?k=&pkeyword=&sv=0&pv66=102511&pv66=142049&pv66=196478&pv66=221942&sf=1&FV=899%7C349479%2C899%7C349480%2C899%7C378376%2C899%7C378377%2C899%7C378378%2C899%7C378379%2C1989%7C0%2C-8%7C627%2C-1%7C1768%2C-1%7C314%2C-1%7C461%2C-1%7C501&quantity=&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&pageSize=25
30:37 <Ysjoelfir> damn long link, but with those filters you should be good to go
31:11 <Ysjoelfir> at least I couldn't find anything particularly bad while scrolling quickly through the results
32:12 <Lemon> thanks buddy im taking a look
32:25 <Lemon> im also looking for a review about the testboy 20, but I cant find any
32:31 <Lemon> I wonder if its instantaneous
58:59 Join: steve31 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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