#eevblog - 2021-05-29 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2021-05-29

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« 2021-05-28 2021-05-30 »
05:46 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:59 <electrohead> o/
20:33 <Ysjoelfir> mornings mr head
21:10 <flyback> https://youtu.be/g6hQcdjcI9Y?t=344
25:32 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:13 <K> poooneh
29:14 <Kuschelpony> K?
31:53 <K> helloo
34:02 <Kuschelpony> yes i am here, thanks
34:17 <Nero_> ffs the chip crisis strikes again
34:24 <Nero_> the 8 channel version of my DAC is out of stock
34:44 <Nero_> wonder if I should design with the footprint/code compatible 16 channel version and just use that
34:51 <K> yup
34:52 <Nero_> and if the 8 channel version comes back in stock that is nice
35:00 <K> it prolly wont
35:30 <Nero_> or I just have to annoy my contacts at ADI
35:41 <K> there are some ics that have planned to be available in the end of 2022
36:27 <K> fuck the automotive businesses with a flaming cactus
36:37 <Nero_> yeah
36:50 <Nero_> I can get the 8-channel versio in a TSOP instead of QFN...
36:55 <Nero_> I guess Iĺl just do that then
38:59 * T3sl4 hugs Nero_
39:50 <Nero_> hi T3sl4
39:55 <Nero_> where did the c01l go
40:27 Quit: Tezzers ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
54:59 <T3sl4> lazy i guess :P
04:00 <Kuschelpony> lol: https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/clean-fight-jpg.283597/
07:54 <Ysjoelfir> lol
11:11 <Ysjoelfir> Btw... is it just me or do others also enjoy making layouts for oldschool throughhole circuits with oldschool components? Right now I create a small PSU with an L200 as someone asked me to do him a favor and do that. Its so nice, having all that space.... doing layouts like "back in the days", single sided with like 500 wire bridges...
14:45 <Kuschelpony> L200, get them while they are still in stock
15:18 <Ysjoelfir> they probably aren't. but this is a one off thing, so.... its fine :)
15:37 <Kuschelpony> myself, i dont like THT anymore, instead i sometimes take it as challenge to make single sided SMD layouts to not need drill any holes
15:56 <Kuschelpony> L200 has been discontinued at all...
16:15 <Kuschelpony> but LM317 and TLV431 are an good subsitute
18:38 <Ysjoelfir> I kind of like and hate THT at the same time. for DIY SMD is probably easyer if you have a steady hand and don't make your PCBs yourself. but THT is so much easyer if you do simple, easy stuff and want to etch your own pcbs, maybe in a not so optimal/refined setup.
18:57 <Ysjoelfir> for production work however I would always go for SMD nowadays
20:40 <Kuschelpony> oh im mentioning hobby projects
21:24 <Kuschelpony> somewhat i have lost interest in the technologies bewtween smd no-holes or tubetech with free wiring
22:02 <Ysjoelfir> Well, twooooobs with free wires are the best, thats not something you could argue about.
26:46 <Nero_> I personally much prefer making layout with SMD components and microvias
27:39 <Nero_> but then again, coming from 11 metal layers on chip I always feel like my hands are tied behind my back when doing PCB layout ol
28:05 <Ysjoelfir> haha, yeah I can immagine
31:17 <Ysjoelfir> so, I think I'll replace the distributor of my volvo. brb
38:23 <T3sl4> i prefer SMT over THT for hand assembly, but you do you, i guess
38:55 <Nero_> I wish my assembly place could do 0201 and 01005
38:58 <Nero_> that would be neat
39:07 <Nero_> smaller smaller smaller
39:44 <coppice> Ysjoelfir: I'm happy with the dealer for my Volvo
50:38 <coppice> Nero_ boards full of 01005 are a PITA to debug
26:23 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
26:36 <rust_collector> hmm, I forgot to bring the distributor for the volvo I am messing with....
27:19 <rust_collector> I guess I will just swap the wire around really fast, and just run it on 4
29:36 <T3sl4> swap it around fast enough, and you'll be able to run it on just one
30:16 <rust_collector> there is no fast enough on this thing... it is a chevy 305
30:57 <rust_collector> the fuel gauge is the only quick thing on this
51:23 <Nero_> anyone know of a 3-pin LED that contains a turn-on/off transistor
51:59 <Nero_> essentially, something that can be connected to an open-collector error/status (with perhaps a pull-up) to create an error indicator
58:38 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:03 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
51:58 <T3sl4> steve30000: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalsBeingDerps/comments/nmvmbw/hand_another_hand_feet/
04:18 <T3sl4> https://i.redd.it/5xjnkzefiv171.jpg
06:56 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/nmvpfg/bird_sings_along_with_perfect_pitch_to_man/
07:10 <Lemon> Ysjoelfir im going to ask you this question one more time as I have the shittiest memory ever, but the kontakt wl is basically acting like IPA, right ? so buying IPA is wiser looking at the price ? 60/61 are 15 euros per 200ML, sounds right to you ? :>
08:00 * steve30000 pets T3sl4 
08:29 <Ysjoelfir> yes
08:34 <Ysjoelfir> also, mornings all
09:50 <Lemon> yes for all 3 questions ? :P
09:55 <Lemon> and mornings :>
10:16 <Ysjoelfir> yes
11:03 <Lemon> ok thanks, this time im ordering them, screw it :> it adds up quickly when you add ipa and other things but its needed
11:04 * T3sl4 meows at steve30000
11:27 * T3sl4 hugs Ysjoelfir
11:36 * Ysjoelfir looks at stevethreebillion and T3sl4, wondering if something got wired in reverse
11:45 * Ysjoelfir hugs T3sl4 back
11:49 * T3sl4 looks innocent
11:53 <Lemon> theres so many kontakt product that do the same, like 60 and 600, or 601 and 61
12:18 <Ysjoelfir> I have never heard of 60x, its probably a fancy new version of the same thing
12:20 <T3sl4> Lemon: i don't know about the product specifically, but just because it's like 99% IPA doesn't mean 100% IPA will do the job
13:07 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4, in case of Kontakt WL it does. WL is PCB/flux cleaner, but the best thing on it is the brush nozzle. using a toothbrush works equally well :)
13:26 <T3sl4> oh
13:40 <T3sl4> kontakt is the brand, not what it does. i see
13:56 <Lemon> and IPA I guess I go for the cheapest one on amazon ?
14:00 <Lemon> 99.9% stuff
14:34 <Ysjoelfir> and for what lemon wants to use it (cleaning contacts, or better, washing out the quite acidic Kontakt 60 "descaler" before protecting it with the oily Kontakt 61) IPA is especially perfectly fine :)
14:54 <Lemon> ok good :>
15:01 <Ysjoelfir> well.. I noticed that cheap IPA leaves more residue, but I still didn't care, as the expensive stuff is....... expensive.
15:04 <Lemon> but its annoying because IPA mostly comes in 1L bottles
15:19 <Lemon> maybe I can transfer it in a small spray bottle
15:23 <Ysjoelfir> yeah, I know, I prefer to order it in 10l canisters as well
15:23 <Lemon> if I fidn one
15:35 <Ysjoelfir> spray bottle: wait a sec
19:46 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Alcool-Isopropylique-disopropanol-liquide-pulv%C3%A9risation/dp/B07FKQCK67/ref=sr_1_40?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=IPA&qid=1622225620&sr=8-40
19:51 Join: Ysjoelfir_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:51 <Lemon> theres this but a tad expensive
19:57 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
19:57 Nick: Ysjoelfir_ is now known as Ysjoelfir
20:04 <Lemon> but anyway it will be expensive as I cant spend a lot to buy 5-10l at once
20:10 <Ysjoelfir> fucking disconnects
20:42 <Ysjoelfir> [20:15:21] <@Ysjoelfir> yeah, I know, I prefer to order it in 10l canisters as well
20:42 <Ysjoelfir> [20:15:34] spray bottle: wait a sec
20:42 <Ysjoelfir> [20:16:35] IF amazon would load that is.... since it doesn't: please wait a few minutes
20:42 <Ysjoelfir> [20:17:01] oh cool, i have a DC
21:09 <Lemon> aye :>
21:17 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B014R5SKZK/?coliid=I32N0UU220QZQ9&colid=Q18DABCNJCP7&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
21:21 <Ysjoelfir> this is what I wanted to suggest
21:25 <Ysjoelfir> its perfect
22:23 <Lemon> oof yes it looks to be, but 53 bucks D:
22:52 <Lemon> 61.5 in france lol
23:03 <Lord_of_nothing> ?!
23:12 <Lemon> and I will need to pump it, as I have no compressor
23:15 <Lemon> but it does look cool
23:16 <Lemon> I admit it
23:34 <Ysjoelfir> it works perfect. just put in whatever you want to spray, pump it up, done
24:18 <Lemon> yeah I have to think about it
24:22 <Lemon> after all its a one time purchase
24:33 <Lemon> and im all for good tools that are a pleasure to use and last a long time
24:41 <Lemon> rather than buying tons of shit that pollute for nothing
24:46 <Lemon> and makes me throw it against walls
25:23 <Lemon> ok gonna eat brb, thanks for the recommendation, I will take a look in a few to other models :>
26:14 <Ysjoelfir> thats the exact reason why I wanted that. I hate all the waste that I produced with cans of compressed oil and brake cleaner and whatnot
26:29 <Nero_> man this chip shortage
26:30 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Changing hosts
26:31 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
26:37 <Ysjoelfir> its annoying, isn't it?
26:42 <Nero_> it´s like half of the analog devices parts I´m used to using are gone
26:55 <Ysjoelfir> yep
26:56 <Nero_> We didn´t really notice it up to now on account of us making the chips :p
27:05 <Ysjoelfir> hehehe
28:05 <Nero_> also found this bug in altium where if I connect/disconnect to my dock a few times eventually I can´t interact with any of the windows
28:13 <Nero_> I can push the buttons, but can´t actually interact with the schematic
28:43 <Ysjoelfir> what, bugs in altium? that would neeeeeever happen!
29:13 * Ysjoelfir is annoyed that he has to switch off the stupid object snapping regularely, despite NEVER switching it on again, it just does that by itself
31:04 <Nero_> also - dafuck farnell, how is the ´cut tape´ version of a chip ´out of stock´, but the ´re-reel´ version is not
31:42 <Ysjoelfir> well, its obviously so that you pay for their expensive reeling service ;)
32:24 <Nero_> oh wait no
32:41 <Nero_> itś just that since the time I went to dinner, someone literally ordered all 3800 LDOs of that product number Farnell still had in stock
32:51 <Nero_> fuck.my.life.
33:05 <Nero_> Guess I´ll start putting a different footprint in altium then
33:26 <Ysjoelfir> oooff :D
35:28 * T3sl4 sprinkles LM1117s on Nero_
37:40 <Lord_of_nothing> who remember niki lauda?
42:46 <Nero_> What about him Lord_of_nothing
52:29 <Lemon> Niki Lauda ! a legend
58:56 <Lemon> pfff to spend 5-60 euros on a nice metal vaporisator, or not to spend
59:17 <Nero_> vaporisator?
59:27 <Nero_> sounds like a low prive for a BFG
59:29 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Hazet-199-4-Vaporisateur-rechargeable/dp/B014R5SKZK/ref=pd_sbs_3/258-0739255-0076462?pd_rd_w=Nd98s&pf_rd_p=54726fdb-7510-4999-b3ee-95376f330d3d&pf_rd_r=MHTX8E3D9J0X3A4N7FG6&pd_rd_r=1eb741ef-31b0-465b-afbd-e7e235dc014a&pd_rd_wg=vbj8N&pd_rd_i=B014R5SKZK&psc=1
59:44 <Lemon> to put IPA in it
00:09 <Lemon> on the long term thats much cheaper than buying those smaller bottles with integrated pulverisator or whatever is it called
00:34 <Nero_> ooh
03:06 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Rotek-rotek-Cartouches-Rechargeables-Vaporisateur/dp/B019E927ZI/ref=pd_sbs_5/258-0739255-0076462?pd_rd_w=8UTbK&pf_rd_p=54726fdb-7510-4999-b3ee-95376f330d3d&pf_rd_r=7S29WYK9XMG204M46R4B&pd_rd_r=caff1b95-7d87-4aca-9900-98bbff3cf840&pd_rd_wg=6iojO&pd_rd_i=B019E927ZI&th=1
03:09 <Lemon> this one is a tad cheaper
04:18 <Lemon> and it comes with 4 different thingies, to have a thin/thicker spray
13:16 <Ysjoelfir> Lemon, those with the gas input on the top tend to leak pretty quickly I have read, which is why I decided for the Hazet
13:47 <Lemon> arf crap
13:55 <Lemon> but its quite expensive :/
15:07 <Lemon> or I guess the cheapest solution is a small plastic bottle
15:13 <Lemon> not pressurized, but it works
16:21 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Emsa-504078200-Vaporisateur-Transparent/dp/B000A8BKSI/ref=sr_1_25?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=pulverisateur+IPA&qid=1622229343&sr=8-25
16:24 <Lemon> that for example
16:30 <Lemon> its surely not as nice
25:49 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Plastique-Bouteille-DArrosage-Artificielles-Int%C3%A9Rieur/dp/B07G76TPJT/ref=bmx_23/258-0739255-0076462?pd_rd_w=tDkva&pf_rd_p=456b1576-4c8f-4176-8626-212a60785273&pf_rd_r=YR5J58B9W2S1YXM6ZGXX&pd_rd_r=dff0e878-a50d-4721-89cb-06a895318d36&pd_rd_wg=Mt5Ji&pd_rd_i=B07G76TPJT&psc=1
25:54 <Lemon> or maybe this style is better
28:13 <rust_collector> lalalalaaaaaa
28:18 <rust_collector> I think it is good night
29:23 <rust_collector> yep, good night
33:02 <Lemon> good night good night
33:39 <Lemon> I was reading reviews of some MG branded flux (couple peeps recommended this) and one guy said "I was a bit worried it wouldnt work, as it took more than 24 hours to glue my component"
39:11 <Lemon> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71LGjgv9sSL._AC_SL1500_.jpg I absolutely love those pictures
49:23 <Ampera> pork is delicious
02:08 Join: Guest|65182 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:24 <Guest|65182> hi
03:02 Quit: Guest|65182 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
11:05 <electrohead> bye
16:35 * Ampera hugs electrohead 
16:39 <Ampera> how are you doing electrobread?
22:50 <electrohead> you keep changing up my nick :P
23:20 <T3sl4> after'n electrothread
25:46 <T3sl4> how are you Amberry
32:58 <Ampera> oh man I love digikey's packaging, they do it so well
37:51 <T3sl4> ye
48:25 <Lemon> ok nothing new with the luxmeter, its been 24h its plugged, besides a led turned on nothing works
48:28 <Lemon> time to tear it down
51:53 <Lemon> so the 4.8v batt is indeed dead, 0.35v
04:59 <Lemon> yeyyy its alive
05:20 <Lemon> so it was indeed a problem of dedek battery
09:33 * T3sl4 squeezes some Lemon juice into the battery
10:13 <Lemon> I just plugged the sensor, it seems to work
10:24 <Lemon> hard to tell because I have no idea of the values expected
10:35 <Lemon> but with its cover its 0.00, and under my desk lamp around 110 lux
11:36 <DHess_US> https://ibb.co/HgWK8CH
12:08 <Lemon> hmmm makes me wonder if theres also one in my 3456a
12:12 <DHess_US> Unfortunately, now I have to deal with this, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/taking-apart-the-hp3478a/
12:53 <DHess_US> The part he describes is corroded in mine. I cleaned it so it sort of works now.
13:08 <DHess_US> But I need to replace it somehow.
13:23 <Lemon> potentially there is the 3456a, tds 540 and tek 2245a that might need batteries like that
13:45 <DHess_US> tek2245A doesn't matter. It doesn't store calibration data.
14:37 <Lemon> ok one less
14:39 <Lemon> and the others ?
15:03 <DHess_US> tds540 does I think. I don't know about the HP multimeter.
15:29 <Lemon> the 540 also got the dreaded smd cap illness
15:39 <Lemon> I checked mine and they look really nice, joints are still shiny
15:46 <Lemon> I heard that after 1995, they are fine
15:56 <Lemon> but I cant find a datecode, I'll need to open it again
16:06 <Lemon> and fuck this, I already had to clean it when a cat peed on it
16:09 <Lemon> this little motherfucker
16:19 <Lemon> anyway im happy, luxmeter works'
16:29 <Lemon> I'll have to figure out something, either replace the battery or bypass it
16:32 <DHess_US> Right, it is only the early smd ones which had that problem.
16:59 <Lemon> I guess if they are shiny im all good
17:09 <Lemon> mine is in pristine condition, really
17:17 <Lemon> with a cal sticker going to 2014, please
17:23 <Lemon> but, it got an issue
17:35 <Lemon> the crt isnt perfect, it got some faded lines...
17:44 <Lemon> its not really an issue, as im not noticing them anymore
17:46 <Lemon> but it bothers me
18:39 <Lemon> I played with contrast and it helped
18:50 <Lemon> its weird because during the selftest, its perfectly fine, lines dont show
24:19 <T3sl4> my 460 had that
24:28 <Lemon> ha ?
24:34 <Lemon> do you know where is it from ?
24:49 <T3sl4> took out a few boards, good soak in water, alcohol, remove the caps, replace with new, patch up whatever traces corroded-- came out pretty lucky
25:20 <Lemon> ha yeh ok thats what I thought
25:25 <Lemon> was it smd caps ?
25:28 <T3sl4> ya
25:34 <Lemon> you replaced all of them ?
25:38 <Lemon> like, 100+ right
25:40 <T3sl4> my tek CRT is in great shape, my HP 8590A not as much it's definitely got burn-in
25:52 <T3sl4> don't think it was that many, the acq board has quite a few tho
26:16 <T3sl4> think there's still a few old ones on the CPU board i left? pretty much everything needed it tho
26:29 <T3sl4> the PSU ironically, being all THT doesn't have the problem and seems to be in fine condition
27:19 <Lemon> hmmm because I looked at mine
27:22 <Lemon> and it was perfect, really
27:35 <T3sl4> do wonder if i need to recap my 8590 or get a new GTO or what, its stability is awful like +/- some kHz
27:35 <Lemon> no sign of corrosion, solder joints were shiny (I know thats the sign)
29:10 <Lemon> I got some infos out of that LMT luxmeter
29:37 <Lemon> guy was working for Philips (Ysjoelfir hehe :P) and he was using it to do certifications of various places
29:45 <Lemon> it got calibrated 4 years ago, barely used since
31:50 <Lemon> its a cute little device, and the sensor comes in a beautiful box with some nice cloth, and its lemo terminated cable
33:36 <Lemon> for 35 euros delivered, its a nice deal I think
33:42 <Lemon> LMT seems to be the leader in photometry
33:54 <Lemon> you cant find a single price on their website, lol
40:48 <DHess_US> <T3sl4> took out a few boards, good soak in water, alcohol, remove the caps, replace with new, patch up whatever traces corroded-- came out pretty lucky
41:20 <DHess_US> I may end up doing that with my HP3478A. The main board is pretty dirty on top. I'm going to have to take it well apart to fix the front panel buttons.
42:01 <DHess_US> Not sure how to clean it. Distilled water and detergent maybe?
42:07 <T3sl4> the boards in this thing are amazingly clean, even after being in use around me. the fan may be large but it seems to be slow enough that dust settles out or moves around things
42:13 <MrMobodies> Hello
42:24 <T3sl4> so it was really just the corrosion and electrolyte seepage i had to worry about
42:26 <Lemon> maybe some IPA directly, and a brush ?
42:34 <DHess_US> And of course I don't want to remove the battery backup because the calibration woudl be lost.
42:35 <T3sl4> yeah, detergent is a good idea for cakier things
42:57 <T3sl4> backing up NVRAM beforehand would be nice, a good idea anyway
42:58 <MrMobodies> leaking capacitors?
42:58 <DHess_US> So I have to clean it, and then dry it somehow with the battery installed.
43:01 <Lemon> you can parallel a new one, no ?
43:03 <T3sl4> i need to see if i can do that on mine...
43:05 <MrMobodies> in your oscilloscope
43:13 <DHess_US> I don't think I can back it up and restore it.
43:56 <MrMobodies> oh sorry I just reading upwards
44:03 <T3sl4> MrMobodies: in my scope, his dmm
44:09 <T3sl4> any old equipment really
44:09 <MrMobodies> oh
44:21 <MrMobodies> so the caps were leaking due to old age
44:27 <DHess_US> It's going to be a future project. I need to order the connector housings and pins to replace the corroded connector which goes to the keyboard.
44:35 <T3sl4> old age and bad manufacture
45:00 <MrMobodies> heat or dodgy caps
45:29 <DHess_US> I suspect what happened with those capacitors is that SMD electrolytics were new, and the TCE or whatever was used to cleaning the boards attacked the seals.
45:37 <MrMobodies> but in an instrument rule I wouldn't expect there to be dodgy caps
45:48 <MrMobodies> aaah so it was cleaned and it caused problems with the caps
46:12 <Lemon> T3sl4 in your 460, it was a NVRAM with battery integrated, or a standalone battery ?
46:14 <T3sl4> or they had the reflow cycle wrong and cooked em, same effect
46:25 <T3sl4> mmh, i forget
46:25 <DHess_US> I think so. It was a well known problem a few years later and they changed the seal material to be compatible with the cleaning solvents.
46:38 <Lemon> im afraid of that
47:01 <MrMobodies> compatible is in affected?
47:45 <T3sl4> MrMobodies: 1,1,1-TCE is an aggressive solvent, formerly used for cleaning PCBs and other things, and affecting many plastics.
47:58 <MrMobodies> I see
48:22 <MrMobodies> so anything plastics can melt
48:45 <T3sl4> could be the early ones were affected, and the plastics needed to be reformulated for compatibility
50:16 <MrMobodies> well that is a lesson for me today, if someone gives me something old such a pcb and it needs cleaning and I go out and buy cleaning stuff including that 1,1,1-TCE that would be a disaster
50:38 <DHess_US> What happened was a little more complex. It wasn't just the solvent attacking the seals, but getting inside and attacking the electrodes.
50:44 <T3sl4> by coincidence, you can't buy it anyway :P
50:53 <MrMobodies> oh
51:25 <DHess_US> If you look at the Nichicon selection guides, one of the criteria is solvent compatibility.
52:14 <MrMobodies> https://www.apcpure.com/product/chloroform-99-95-acs/?attribute_pack-size=2.5L
52:28 <MrMobodies> restricted to professional users/ guess they need some kind of a license
52:49 <DHess_US> "anti cleaning solvent"? https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/alm_mini/index.html
53:13 <T3sl4> chloroform is dangerous for a couple of other reasons, but also isn't TCE
53:38 <T3sl4> hm, i wonder if chloroform is as aggressive to as many plastics?
53:58 <MrMobodies> I wonder about Acetone, I know that melts some plastics too?
54:34 <MrMobodies> but good for cleaning things
54:38 <T3sl4> acetone is about as aggressive as ethanol/propanol
54:47 <DHess_US> "lf halogen is used as a cleaning agent for P.C. boardsand a fixing agent (including conformal materials) forcapacitors, infiltrates the capacitor, the operation of thecircuit may be affected by an increased leakagecurrent as a result of an open circuit due to corrosionof lead wires, foils and tabs."
54:48 <T3sl4> they can often be substituted
55:05 <T3sl4> DHess_US: interesting
56:11 <DHess_US> page 25 here, http://products.nichicon.co.jp/en/pdf/e-alminium.pdf
56:44 <DHess_US> "When this reaction is repeated, the leakage currentincreases and the safety vent will be activated and maylead to open vent. Because of this, halogen type cleaningagents or adhesive material and coating material is notrecommended for usage."
57:07 <T3sl4> that should lead to electrical and venting failure, not seal leakage though, right?
57:31 <T3sl4> guessing the reaction is something like, hydrolyzing to free HCl and acetic acids
57:38 <DHess_US> venting *is* seal leakage
58:18 <DHess_US> "When it isabsolutely necessary to use HCFC, cleaning is possibleunder the following conditions:Applicable:Anti-solvent capacitors (listed in thecatalogue)"
58:58 <DHess_US> Anyway, I think what happened on those early Tektronix oscilloscopes with the SMD capacitors is that they didn't know the above yet.
57:53 <electrohead> o/
58:04 * Ampera hugs electrohead 
58:17 <Ampera> how are you doing electrostead
40:49 <electrohead> lol
40:53 <electrohead> you ask me that a lot :P
44:15 <Ampera> it's because I'm not nearly interesting enough of a person to actually have anything else to say, and am too lonely and bored to actually go do something with someone else
49:42 <electrohead> lol
54:41 Join: JoePublic1 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:30 <coppice> T3sl4: acetone dissolves all sorts of things. ethanol and propan-2-ol affect very few
21:54 <T3sl4> it does affect more, yes
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53:18 <Halcyon> Morninnnng
53:23 * Halcyon licks Ampera
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57:27 * Ampera hugs Halcyon 
57:35 <Ampera> Halcyon, want to do a call in five minutes or so?
58:10 <Halcyon> Yeh I'm about to go to the shops, just got to do my hair and put my shoes on, so 5 mins will be perfect.
58:21 <Halcyon> T3sl4: Birbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0BwooE8sqs
58:28 * T3sl4 noogies Halcyon
59:21 <Ampera> I just need to pay a bill
59:38 <Halcyon> By writing a cheque?
00:06 <Ampera> no by writing down a debit car number onto a piece of paper
00:41 <Halcyon> Weird
00:44 <Halcyon> Anyway, call me in 5
01:12 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
02:17 <Ampera> call you? alright then
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24:11 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o gnif
08:08 <Halcyon> Mew
29:03 Quit: astroanax ([email protected]) Quit: WeeChat 3.1
30:03 <Halcyon> BRB, updating my router
30:08 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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45:15 * Halcyon paws at Ampera
45:51 * electrohead films
45:58 <Halcyon> Weirdo :P
46:01 <Halcyon> And put some pants on
47:21 <electrohead> I have shorts on, goof
47:23 <electrohead> lol
47:35 <Halcyon> :P
47:52 <Halcyon> It's been a while since I've upgraded my Unifi controller
47:54 <Halcyon> I'm naughty
53:49 <electrohead> you're so naughty
55:35 * T3sl4 films electrohead being so naughty
03:44 <Halcyon> BRB again
03:57 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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13:11 * Ampera stabs Halcyon with a dicksickle
21:47 <Halcyon> :D
26:51 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI2kfttAUjE
26:53 <Halcyon> Hell yes
50:31 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
56:21 <Halcyon> T3sl4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK0Yw9z3Vjw
57:23 * T3sl4 sniffs Halcyon's feathers
57:32 <gremlinz> i wanted a slaughter
57:44 <Halcyon> Sorry to disappoint gremlinz
58:11 <gremlinz> yea
58:15 <gremlinz> im use to it
58:23 <Halcyon> :P
58:25 <Halcyon> How are you?
58:39 <gremlinz> bloody marvelous
58:40 <gremlinz> u
58:47 <Halcyon> Recovering from a cold, but otherwise OK
58:50 <Halcyon> Wine helps :P
00:52 <gremlinz> yuup let the alcohol do its thing
28:25 <Kuschelpony> amazing, again some people DO understand electronics in the audio world https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover-16.html
28:39 <Kuschelpony> the famous pin1 problem...
32:07 <Halcyon> No idea what you're talking about Kuschelpony
32:36 <Kuschelpony> about a common mis-practice in audio equipment
32:47 <T3sl4> that doesn't exactly narrow it down
32:51 <Kuschelpony> on XLR connectzors, Pin1 is the shiel connector
32:56 <Halcyon> Yes
33:43 <Kuschelpony> it is intended and menat to be connected to the chassis as short and hard as possible, to interconnect the sending and receiving device chassis and case, throught the cable shiled, into one faraday cage
33:58 * DogWomble peer sin
34:04 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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34:27 <Kuschelpony> so like the case of bothe devices is one large shielded case
34:44 * T3sl4 sins DogWomble
35:28 <DogWomble> a peer to peer sin exchange?
35:47 <Kuschelpony> the idea is simple, the combinations is fully metallic shielded from high frequency ingress, and the cable shield shorts out hum currents, giviong them a totally harmless path
35:48 <T3sl4> well, you gonna ack or not?
36:08 * DogWomble syns a three way handshake
36:24 <Kuschelpony> the common miostake is to connect pin1 instead in some way to signal reference points be3cause "its ground"
37:06 <Kuschelpony> so any current on the shield is injected into the audio circuitry
37:31 <Kuschelpony> and then... people cut screens of the cables to reduce hum
37:45 <T3sl4> it's funny that audio has such pervasive problems with ground loop, but they seem to do everything possible to cause it to happen
37:47 <Kuschelpony> and then... equiopmenbt gets noisy and sensitive to any RF around
37:54 <T3sl4> it seems almost intentional
37:58 <Kuschelpony> oh
38:14 <Kuschelpony> a ground loop is completely harmless, i even try to build a ground mesh as hard as i can
38:34 <T3sl4> a ground loop with currents and attendant voltage offsets, ofc
39:02 <Kuschelpony> the problem is not the loop, but the coupling impedance where the external currents create voltage differences along traces and wires that should never carry external currents
40:09 <Kuschelpony> this coupling impedance should be absolutely zero, by connecting the shield to the case as hard as possible, but never let any loop current enter into the circuit itself, because only the differential input voltage should matter
40:59 <T3sl4> show me a bigger piece of copper braid, and i'll show you a transformer that drops millivolts across it
41:35 <Kuschelpony> i havwe transformers that can go to full volts if needed :)
41:56 <T3sl4> surely you see the folly of such an arrangement, then
42:18 <Kuschelpony> no that should not matetr in any case as the current along the shield is inside the cable in no way coupled to the differentiel voltage across the wire pair
42:20 <T3sl4> simply read the signal differentially, so that signal and ground currents are as near zero (at signal frequencies) as possible
42:30 <T3sl4> or more specifically, equal
42:38 <Kuschelpony> oh i always mention differential signal on XLR
42:51 <Kuschelpony> thatswhere the pin1 refers to
42:59 <T3sl4> yes, we were talking about that
43:28 <Kuschelpony> pin1 is the one that should carry the current along the shield, which connects the cases, and pin2-pin3 is the signal voltage
43:33 <T3sl4> you're an idiot if you connect that to anything but enclosure ground/earth, and don't sense the differential signal differentially
43:54 <T3sl4> the generalization however extends to coax as well, something i've never seen done before but it works just fine
43:58 <Kuschelpony> absolutely right, and thats what the standard AES48 says in more formal words :)
44:33 <T3sl4> ah
44:49 <Kuschelpony> but there are still lots of manufacturers of new gear who do connect Pin1 not to the case but to internal "ground" nodes that should be "zero volt reference" nodes
45:49 <Kuschelpony> what i meant, that this got noticed and explained even in that sometimes esoteric forum, where folk wisdom is still about cutting "ground" wires to kill "gound loops"
46:44 <T3sl4> there are a few that know what they're doing, there
47:31 <Kuschelpony> i am amazed that they even speak up so well
49:12 <Kuschelpony> related:
49:41 <Kuschelpony> if you use one of these TPA3118 boards they can be greatly improved by modding them from single ended to differential
49:52 <Kuschelpony> the chip is already made for that...
49:54 <Kuschelpony> https://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/01/15/180115101226771628.jpg
50:45 <Kuschelpony> remove C4? to the single ended input and C2? to "ground" (they can be microphonic by the way) and replace them by a pair of film caps to the XLR input and you have a great mini amp
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53:28 <alfbaz> hi
55:25 <Kuschelpony> Hello alfbaz
55:44 <Kuschelpony> and T3sl4 see https://www.aes.org/standards/comments/drafts/aes48-xxxx-190121-cfc.pdf for the official stanbdard
56:44 <Kuschelpony> the image on page 7 is pretty clear what any engineer would do
58:39 <T3sl4> indeed
01:21 <Kuschelpony> sorry for the flood
02:47 <T3sl4> that's no flood :P
10:50 <Kuschelpony> hmm, good idea for tests http://kb.inmusicbrands.com/media/images/rane/n110fig3.png
39:17 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
19:33 * Halcyon nibbles on T3sl4 
25:37 <DogWomble> hmmm, do we have anyone in chat that has any experience with PHP?
36:54 * steve30000 meows at Halcyon 
37:01 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :)
38:54 <steve30000> I've decided to take my Super VHS camera out with me later :)
39:01 <Halcyon> Where you going?
39:20 <steve30000> Out and about
41:30 <DogWomble> i'd love to have an old panasonic m40 or m50 camera
45:48 * steve30000 has an S85
46:28 <steve30000> of course with a full sized one you could use a 4 hour tape. On VHSC you are limited to 45 minutes
54:53 <DogWomble> yeah, i remember using the m40's and m50's in highschool
55:01 <DogWomble> for the time, they're actualyl very decent cameras
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06:14 * Halcyon is downloading Need for Speed II SE
06:44 Join: Guest69 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:13 <steve30000> Halcyon, I just got a letter inviting me to book a coronavirus vaccine.
18:21 <Halcyon> YAY! 5G for Steve
19:53 <steve30000> The leaflet says that the vaccine seriously reduces your chances of infection, therefore you MUST continue to wear a face mask and practise social distancing.
20:15 <Halcyon> Contradiction in terms
22:22 <steve30000> That seems to be the prevailing idea here. Get a rushed out vaccine that supposedly gives 90% protection against a disease that most people will never suffer from, all so that you can continue to wear a mask and social distance.
22:49 Quit: Guest69 ([email protected]) Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
23:23 <Halcyon> The thing is, until most of the population is immune and/or the number of cases is insignificant, masks etc... make perfect sense.
25:11 <steve30000> anyway, i'm off out
25:12 <steve30000> back later
25:38 Quit: steve30000 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
39:27 <Kuschelpony> im not sure if this is only my personal feeling, but... i love to wear a mask and keep distance to other people, i never felt well crammed in crowds for decades for how they get into a kind of personal space i need around me
40:19 <Halcyon> I get that it's not ideal for a lot of people and that things in many countries have been different to what people are used to, but the population needs to suck it up and quit bitching about what is really a minor inconvenience.
40:35 <Halcyon> It's all about the greater good, not individuals
40:37 <rust_collector> I don't care about the mask either way, but I like some space
41:43 <Kuschelpony> as said, i am happy to wear a mask and will continue to do this even if its non longer mandated, because it does not only give some filter against the virus, but also other viruses
41:45 <Halcyon> Wearing a mask for a few minutes while shopping etc... is really not that big of a deal. Could you imagine if things were much more serious?
42:19 <Kuschelpony> well... i do wear FFP2 daily for 12 hours... so who say he would suffocate after a minute?
42:25 <Halcyon> We should be thankful we have the healthcare systems and devices available to us to combat things like this.
42:32 <rust_collector> what are you talking about? you just had 2 people say they did not mind wearing a mask...
42:34 <Kuschelpony> Yep!
42:39 <Halcyon> I'm sure people during the black plague would have loved masks and hand sanitiser
43:11 <Kuschelpony> they did waer the "plague doctor" masks, just didnt knowed how to build an effective filter...
43:19 <DHess_US> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States
43:29 <Lemon> hi frens
43:47 <rust_collector> hey you
43:47 <Halcyon> What has that got to do with it DHess_US ?
43:58 <Halcyon> Most western countries have laws against full face coverings
44:07 <DHess_US> Wearing a mask in public is illegal in many areas of the US.
44:18 <Lemon> and thats dumb, lol
44:31 <Kuschelpony> oh
44:35 <Halcyon> Define "mask"
44:36 <DHess_US> Dumb or not, it is criminal law under statute.
44:51 <Lemon> I remember trump saying to other gouvernors that they arent true "americans" if they allow masks
45:08 <Kuschelpony> in germany, we were always allowed to mask up any time and any public lace, except when going to a demonstration "to hide identity"
45:08 <Halcyon> I doubt the law extends to surgical masks DHess_US
45:15 <Lemon> but well, USA, thats all I have to say :>
45:16 <Halcyon> It's mostly to do with full face coverings
45:24 <DHess_US> And no states have preemption, so the law making it illegal to wear a mask can vary between cities and counties in the same state.
45:47 <DHess_US> Halcyon, wearing a medical mask would count. If you enter a bank wearing a scarf, you are expected ot drop it.
45:53 <Halcyon> That's the biggest issue I have with the US, there is no uniformity in your laws.
46:12 <Halcyon> It varies widely between federal, state, even cities/counties
46:50 <Halcyon> And the levels of "authority" boggles my mind
46:58 <DHess_US> I doubt it varies at all under federal law. The Feds don't get a choice except on federal property.
47:02 <Halcyon> It seems like everyone gets a badge just for showing up
48:29 <Lemon> it would make sense if it was "its forbidden to wear a mask in public to hide your identity"
48:36 <DHess_US> When this all started the various anti-mask laws came up and those states said they wouldn't enforce them for the duration of the emergency, but they didn't repeal them.
48:38 <Halcyon> But getting back to the COVID thing, it seems like those bitching and moaning about it are the ones who know least about this whole thing (which is often the case)
48:38 <Lemon> that would avoid many, many headaches
49:04 <Lemon> its just a flu !
49:13 <DHess_US> Halcyon, it would have helped if Fauci had started off by not lying to 350 million people.
49:14 <Lemon> "my mother got it and she is fine, so its nothing"
49:21 <Halcyon> DHess_US, because the anti-mask laws were intended for a different purpose. People try and make irrelevant laws fit to suit their agenda but law doesn't work that way.
49:24 <DHess_US> Nobody trusts Fauci, the CDC, or the government now.
49:29 <Halcyon> It would be improper
49:32 <DHess_US> And that distrust was well earned.
49:43 <Halcyon> Who the hell is Fauci ?
50:23 <DHess_US> Fauci is the guy in charge of the US response, who started off by saying masks were not effective and people shouldn't wear them, because he didn't want a demand run on masks.
50:50 <Halcyon> Fauci should have listened to the medical community and the rest of the world
51:00 <DHess_US> He did, that was why he lied.
51:05 <Lemon> yes
51:05 <Halcyon> There is a reason why doctors and nurses wear masks in hospitals. It's not just for show.
51:19 <Lemon> its all about masking an issue, which was the number of masks avalaible
51:25 <DHess_US> And the CDC backed him up, so the CDC supported his lie.
51:27 <Halcyon> So? Get more?
51:45 <Lemon> yes but it would show they are underprepared too
51:46 <DHess_US> So now you know why trust in the medical response in the US is so low.
51:52 <Lemon> its the same in France
52:01 <DHess_US> Of course they were not prepared.
52:06 <Lemon> president deleted many hospital jobs
52:09 <Lemon> and now we cry
52:10 <Halcyon> I think every country on this earth was underprepared in one way or another, Australian included.
52:13 <Halcyon> But we fixed shit.
52:22 <Lemon> and we all knew a pandemic would come
52:42 <DHess_US> Amazon and Ebay didn't help the mask situation. A couple months after the start, various companies had tooled up to make masks, and Amazon and Ebay banned them from selling them
53:08 <Halcyon> To be fair, Amazon and ebay shouldn't be a reputable source of medical equipment for governments
53:13 <Lemon> in france, our dear president asked tons of compagnies to repurpose themselves and make masks
53:29 <Lemon> and once they had a ton, state bought them from other countries
53:36 <Lemon> because it was cheaper
53:37 <Halcyon> We were short of masks and hand sanitiser for a short time. But we ramped up local manufacturing and secured overseas sources
53:43 <Lemon> ggwp patriotism lol
53:45 <Halcyon> The "shortage" lasted all of a month
53:57 <DHess_US> And then we had the FDA and ATF fining distilleries for making hand sanitizer.
54:09 <Halcyon> Well that's bullshit
54:27 <Halcyon> That's exactly what we did. Distilleries were (and still are) making hand rubs
54:35 <Halcyon> They were stupid not to
54:48 <DHess_US> But alcohol is bad, Mkay?
55:02 <Halcyon> But they aren't being produced for consumption
55:03 <DHess_US> From the government which brought you Prohibition.
55:07 <Halcyon> Why would the FDA give a shit?
55:27 <Halcyon> Companies are allowed to sell different products, from food to underpants if they want
55:30 <DHess_US> Hand sanitizer is medical. Alcohol falls under ATF.
55:44 <Halcyon> Oh for fuck's sake
56:32 <DHess_US> I still can't get the vaccination where I am. It is very supply constrained.
56:53 <Halcyon> I'm honestly contemplating getting a second round of vaccination.
57:02 <Kuschelpony> hmm, tempted to buy... https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/antennenmessgeraet-kws-type-154-kabelmessgeraet/1759973192-175-8942
57:04 <Halcyon> I've had Pfizer, might as well get AZ as well
57:17 <Kuschelpony> it covers amateur radio bands as well
57:19 <DHess_US> haha, I had just the photo for that. Let me see if I can find it.
01:04 <Lemon> Kuschelpony it looks cool :>
01:25 <Kuschelpony> yes, just simple and functional, i love the charm of the 80s and 90s
01:47 <Lemon> thats true !
02:46 <Kuschelpony> i need to leave for one to two hours, see you back later
03:44 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
05:24 <DHess_US> https://thechive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/285e996b44e6d1e0751be0aa0f0b7b54_width-600.jpeg?quality=85&strip=info&w=600
05:44 <Halcyon> I don
05:48 <Halcyon> I don't get it?
06:29 <rust_collector> I guess you don't visit the chive very often
06:34 <Halcyon> Nope?
06:42 <rust_collector> right
06:53 <Halcyon> Is she meant to be attractive?
07:04 <rust_collector> probably
07:12 <Halcyon> Yehhhh no
08:05 <rust_collector> I wonder if she flips over, if put in water
08:12 <Halcyon> HAHAHAHAHA
08:26 <Halcyon> I think it acts more as a balast
09:16 <rust_collector> I don't know. i think butt is pretty neutral, when it comes to weight.
09:37 <Halcyon> Everything looks fake
09:53 <Halcyon> The tuckshop lady arms excluded
11:06 <rust_collector> tuckshop
11:08 <rust_collector> ?
11:35 <Halcyon> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tuckshop%20arms
12:07 <rust_collector> mmmhmm
12:37 <Halcyon> "Tuckshop" is more of a UK term
13:22 <DHess_US> I keep reading that as truckstop which is confusing
13:28 <rust_collector> ok, but what... meh, doesn't matter
13:35 <Halcyon> :P
13:44 <Halcyon> You go for that kind of look rust_collector ?
14:01 <rust_collector> truckstop ladies have the best arms
14:12 <Halcyon> Masturbation?
14:39 <rust_collector> if that is what you pay for... I guess
15:07 <Halcyon> What other purpose do they fulfil ?
15:55 <rust_collector> great question, you should ask someone from a place where they still have truck stops
16:35 <Halcyon> We have "truck stops" here in AU, but they are mostly just large service stations with one or more restaurants attached, with showers etc...
16:41 <Halcyon> Not just used by truckers
17:18 <rust_collector> right, same here, just with not enough space, and not enough food either
17:37 <Halcyon> Ours seem to be huge, almost too much parking space
17:48 <Halcyon> But I guess they are designed to handle peak holiday traffic?
17:54 <rust_collector> I guess you have more space?
18:01 <Halcyon> Well, there is that
18:05 <Halcyon> Whole lot of nothing out there
18:13 <DHess_US> In the US they aren't allowed to be built next to interstate hiways.
18:31 <rust_collector> but yes, finding food is tricky enough, because you have to park somewhere
18:31 <Halcyon> Oh on the contrary, it's on the highways you find them
18:34 <DHess_US> Well, no services are allowed to be built next to interstate highways.
18:41 <Halcyon> Wha!?
18:42 <Halcyon> Why?
18:53 <DHess_US> No, I mean literally. Let me find it.
19:01 <Halcyon> Doesn't it make more sense to have services on the roads?
19:07 <rust_collector> I think I read about that some time
19:33 <DHess_US> When the interstate highway system was built, there was a fear that it would draw traffic away from nearby towns, so services are not allowed to be built adjacent the highways.
19:40 <Halcyon> Especially for heavy vehicles, you want them to stay on the highways, rather than travelling through local towns and ruining local roads?
20:06 <Halcyon> Sounds dumb
20:08 <rust_collector> well, make better roads
20:25 <Halcyon> I think the opposite is true, bring services near small towns and tourists will come
20:35 <Halcyon> It has certainly been the case here
21:02 <DHess_US> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_area#United_States
21:10 <DHess_US> "The State will not permit automotive service stations or other commercial establishments for serving motor vehicle users to be constructed or located on the rights-of-way of the Interstate System. "
21:21 <DHess_US> You can have vending machines, but that is it.
21:34 <rust_collector> little japan
22:04 <DHess_US> So you always see services built along an adjacent road at a distance from the highway.
22:59 <DHess_US> When I was little I grew up in a rural area of California, and always wondered about that.
23:50 <DHess_US> The question came up recently in connection with electric vehicle chargers.
24:21 <DHess_US> The Feds said they want to encourage electric vehicle charging stations to be built, but their own rules prevent them from being built next to the highways ...
24:48 <Halcyon> Wow
24:51 <Halcyon> Seems silly
25:16 <Halcyon> I travel interstate a lot and most service stations are within 50-100 metres from the highways
26:12 <DHess_US> Here is how stupid it gets, https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amendment-to-house-highway-reauthorization-legislation-threatens-businesses-discourages-private-sector-investment-in-ev-charging-301078158.html
26:13 <Halcyon> i.e.: https://www.google.com/maps/@-34.2829633,150.636874,725m/data=!3m1!1e3
27:29 <DHess_US> NATSO is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_of_Truck_Stop_Owners
27:58 <Halcyon> Laws like this should not be allowed
28:01 <Halcyon> They are retarded
28:03 <DHess_US> So basically the lobbying organization created because they wouldn't allow truck stops next to highways, don't want EV chargers next to highways.
28:28 <DHess_US> Hey, we have the best politicians money can buy.
28:34 <Halcyon> *palm*
28:59 <Halcyon> That shit would never be allowed here
29:20 <DHess_US> What is even more dumb, is that if they did place the EV charging stations next to the highways, there would be no other services there, like food.
29:35 <Halcyon> Yeh, makes total sense *rolls eyes*
29:44 <DHess_US> So that whole thing about getting fast food or whatever while your car charges goes right out the window.
30:03 <DHess_US> Instead, you get to sit there wasting time.
30:35 <Halcyon> Sounds wonderful
31:56 <DHess_US> There is a special freeway which goes between Washington DC and the airport. As originally planned, it wasn't suppose to have any interchanges. Of course later, they added interchanges where people in Congress had bought up the land ...
32:20 <DHess_US> If you aren't rich after being in Congress, you are doing it wrong.
32:42 <Halcyon> Here it's the other way around, politicians aren't that highly paid
33:24 <Halcyon> https://maps.finance.gov.au/guidance/remuneration/salary
33:32 <DHess_US> I don't think ours are either, they are just expected to support themselves through bribes and graft and rent seeking.
34:13 <rust_collector> they still get more than enough, I bet. it is not just what they get paid, but what deals they can make, so the family business gets a great deal on *thing* and so on
34:40 <Halcyon> *shakes head*
34:41 <Halcyon> Terrible
34:43 <DHess_US> The Clintons were not rich until after they were elected to public office.
35:14 <DHess_US> A million dollar book deal here, and a million dollar book deal there, and pretty soon you are talking real money.
36:10 <Halcyon> Sounds like a failure in the system
36:31 <rust_collector> no, it is just a different system
36:40 <Halcyon> I guess...
36:44 <Halcyon> Whatever works for you
38:07 <rust_collector> they don't get paid much up here either, but they somehow end up with a pile of money anyway.
38:47 <rust_collector> well, they are paid well, I guess, but not super crazy much
39:00 <Halcyon> I'd be happy with $200k
40:00 <rust_collector> ok
42:41 <rust_collector> hmmm, what is that word... uh. say I go to the doctor, I have to pay a small fee, and the state covers the rest.
43:13 <rust_collector> I don't even remember what it is in norwegian
43:22 <Halcyon> *shrug*
43:31 <Halcyon> Healthcare?
43:58 <rust_collector> well... I was thinking about the fee. it has a name.
44:07 <Halcyon> Like a gap payment or something?
44:58 <rust_collector> oh damn you google, I am not looking for gender gap or cards
45:47 <Halcyon> What's a gender gap? ;-)
45:48 <rust_collector> meh, I will remember some time
46:17 <rust_collector> I dunno? but it has something to do with healthcare, and credit cards, it looks like
47:58 <rust_collector> oh, so a gap payment covers anything above some set amount?
48:12 <Halcyon> I have no idea
48:20 <Halcyon> Doctor's here for the most part are free
48:48 <rust_collector> yeah, here they are just somewhat free, lol
49:40 <Halcyon> Some Doctor's don't "bulk bill" in which case I think you pay like $60 or something
49:49 <DogWomble> yeah, the one I go to is in the 'somewhat free' category - if you're on a centerlink benefit they'll usually just take what the government gives them, but if you can afford to pay a bit more, they'll generally ask you to
49:57 <rust_collector> I think I pay... around $30 or so, it does not matter what he has to do.
50:16 <DogWomble> @Halcyon in my case i think it's about $70, half of which is covered by medicare
50:26 <DogWomble> so it's not hugely expensive, unless i need to make regualr visits
50:50 <Halcyon> No and if you were a regular consumer, you'd probably go to a bulk-billing doctor, so it's free.
51:04 <Halcyon> I don't mind paying my way. I rarely have a need to go to the doctor anyway
51:07 <rust_collector> we have a limit to how much you have to pay, so if you for some reason have to go there often, after some amount, it is free
51:22 <DogWomble> yeah, i don't mind paying a reasonable amount, my doctor's fairly good
51:36 <rust_collector> my doctor is fairly weird
51:41 <Halcyon> Hahahaha
51:46 <rust_collector> and from iceland, or sweden
51:48 <DogWomble> rust_collector, we have that here - it's basically a safety net, i can't remember hte exact value but if you go over they'll start covering more
51:51 <Halcyon> In what way is he weird?
52:22 <DogWomble> this type of weird? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O2wLtwIHok
53:26 <rust_collector> well, if I go there, and tell him my leg fell off... then he would stare at the wall, look on his phone, send some crap on facebook, then say, "yes, it has fallen off" go to the hospital
54:39 <Halcyon> Hah
54:44 <Halcyon> Sounds like you need a new doctor
55:02 <Halcyon> But to be fair, if you leg falls off, why would you go to a doctor?
55:08 <Halcyon> *your
55:33 <Halcyon> Sounds more like an Ambulance/Hospital thing
55:37 <rust_collector> meh, why not? he has all the fancy staplers and tape
56:58 <rust_collector> going to the er is a waste of time. it is ok, if they come and pick you up, but if you can get there on your own, you might as well look up how to fix yourself on youtube
57:27 <Halcyon> I guess if your leg fell off, you'd have to drive an automatic
57:31 <DogWomble> last time i had to go to ER was ... 2002/2003 i think? when i dislocated my shoulder
57:46 <DogWomble> i don't really want to feel that sort of pain again
57:52 <Halcyon> I've never been to ER as a patient
58:20 <rust_collector> I was there either last year, or the year before. nothing big
58:23 <DogWomble> yeah, well if your shoulder is hanging well and truly out of its socket, you dont' really have a choice
58:44 <Halcyon> Actually, I've never been to hospital as a patient
58:53 <Halcyon> I hope it stays that way
58:59 <rust_collector> then you have not tried hard enough
59:06 <DogWomble> makes me glad we have such modern marvels such sa morphine
59:06 <Halcyon> I haven't been trying
59:59 <rust_collector> arrrgh, yes, mominlaw gave back a pile of morphine when her guy died.. that was annoying
00:16 <Halcyon> Did you use it?
00:38 <rust_collector> no, because she gave it back to the hospital
00:42 <Halcyon> Oh right
00:47 <Halcyon> I thought she gave it to you
01:08 <rust_collector> but that was crazy, it was like a shopping bag full of little boxes
01:24 <Halcyon> I wonder how much was expired though?
01:33 <rust_collector> nothing at that time
02:41 <rust_collector> the guy had cancer, and there was nothing they could do, so they just gave him heaps of morphine and... go home, have fun
03:35 <rust_collector> this makes me think of someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3IsZmkWIw
04:14 <rust_collector> deductible? is that the word?
09:40 <DogWomble> rust_collector, i hope you enjoy the phenomenon that is ASDFMovie
10:00 <rust_collector> some times
20:15 Quit: modrobert ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
34:31 <Lemon> ha, I might have bought a nice metrix handheld dmm
34:35 <Lemon> yes, another one I know I know
34:42 <Lemon> but this one is a 4.5 digit, they are quite uncommon !
34:53 <rust_collector> no you did not
34:58 <Lemon> 15 euros, and probably 5 for shipping
35:07 <rust_collector> no, I don't think those exist
35:20 <Lemon> well I think its a real one
35:26 <Lemon> it looks weird, but I kinda like it lol
35:40 <Lemon> https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1977620556.htm
35:42 <rust_collector> no no no. I don't see a pic, so it does not exist
36:12 <rust_collector> hmm, yes, it has its own look
37:05 <Lemon> yeah and now that I used my fluke 27, I realize how convenient those handhelds are
37:21 <Lemon> yesterday I had to use it, and the keithley too
37:29 <Lemon> so for 20 euros, I cant miss it
38:16 <Lemon> its a 20000 count, 0.05% DC accuracy, its really good for such a device
38:23 <Lemon> and im fairly sure its better than its specs
38:32 <rust_collector> so, did you get that philips one?
38:36 <Lemon> not that I need insane accuracy but for 20 euros, thats a super deal
38:40 <Lemon> well im hesitating
38:44 <Lemon> I kinda want it
38:57 <Lemon> but I'll need to modify it, to put a 9v supply
39:03 <Lemon> as its using a weird 2.5mm jack
39:05 <rust_collector> well...
39:32 <Lemon> I think I will buy it, I asked the guy to give me a few days to think about it
39:39 <Lemon> he accepts 40 euros delivered, which is quite good
39:48 <rust_collector> but it has a nice BIG meter, which could be nice, if you want to see "details"
40:32 <Lemon> thats true yes, lots of ranges/functions, and its a FET meter so 10Mohm input impedance
40:59 <Lemon> yesterday I openned the luxmeter btw
41:09 <Lemon> and it was indeed the battery, its dead
41:21 <Lemon> I simply powered it via a lab supply and it came alive
41:26 <Lemon> so I also need to figure it out
41:28 <rust_collector> what kind of battery is in that thing?
42:47 <rust_collector> nicd?
44:45 <Lemon> I think yes
44:59 <Lemon> 4.8v, 4 cells
45:03 <Lemon> and it started to leak
45:39 <rust_collector> what sort of size and shape? it is like 4 aa or so?
45:54 <Lemon> hmm no, thicker and smaller than AA
45:59 <Lemon> wait I have a picture
47:32 <Lemon> https://imgur.com/EsLLDbA
49:28 <rust_collector> well, the box is adjustable, if nothing else
50:45 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
51:02 <Lemon> adjustable ?
51:08 <Lemon> ha yes
51:26 <Lemon> seems there is a thermistor glued on it
51:43 <rust_collector> does it need much current?
52:06 <Lemon> not at all, I was surprised, about 100-200mA maybe
53:40 <rust_collector> I guess you could just stick some aa's in there. the rechargable ones.
53:55 <rust_collector> add tape, if they flop around too much
55:26 <Lemon> hmmm
55:30 <Lemon> that would be 6v
55:37 <Lemon> it needs 4.8v to work
55:57 <rust_collector> 1.2 x 4 is 6?
57:57 <Lemon> arent AA 1.5v ?
58:07 <rust_collector> not the rechargable ones
58:47 <Lemon> ho ok
58:51 <Lemon> well I'll see
59:03 <Lemon> at first I need to figure out on how to make it work while plugged
59:05 <Ampera> good morning citruses
59:15 <Lemon> as it wouldnt turn on when plugged, with the battery
59:26 <rust_collector> hi the Ampera
01:03 <Lemon> https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipements_industriels/1990200774.htm?ac=206978287
01:10 <Lemon> pretty nice bargain for who needs it
01:32 <rust_collector> Cette annonce est désactivée
01:35 <Lemon> 200Mhz and 2.5 Gs/s for a portable scope is solid
01:43 <Lemon> ha crap
01:48 <Lemon> a fluke 199 scopemeter
01:55 <Lemon> for 300 euros, with a faulty battery
01:56 <rust_collector> eeh well
03:11 <Lemon> I still need to buy a battery for my tek
03:12 <Ampera> hullo rusty, how have you been doing
03:18 <Lemon> but I'll wait next month, im low on cash
03:23 <Lemon> whats cracking ampy
03:27 <Ampera> pepper
03:28 <Ampera> black pepper
03:35 <Ampera> on some macaroni and cheese
03:50 <Ampera> if only I actually had that, mac and cheese with pepper is one of the best things ever
09:43 <Lemon> I must say something
09:57 <Lemon> I feel good with all those instruments, and various thingies surrounding me
10:17 <rust_collector> put them on the floor, and roll around between them
11:50 <Lemon> nahhhh cats will pee on them !
11:51 <Lemon> those mofos
12:02 <rust_collector> roll faster!
12:35 <Ampera> pee harder, faster, stronger
13:01 <Lemon> yey deal is done for the metrix
13:01 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
13:09 <Lemon> everythings working, according the husband of the seller
13:14 <Lemon> 20 euros delivered
13:24 <Lemon> it comes with the manual, and a "transport bag"
13:28 <Lemon> thats quite a nice deal
13:50 <rust_collector> Ampera talking about -of the best... https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/15925/creamy-au-gratin-potatoes/
13:56 <rust_collector> also needs pepper
14:40 <Ampera> needs many pepper
14:43 <Ampera> all the pepper
14:49 <Ampera> there is no finer pepper than pepper
15:10 <rust_collector> pepper is so versatile
15:42 <coppice> Ampera: there is definitely finer pepper than the pepper that comes from the big pepper grinder we use for cooking
15:58 Join: newbie ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:03 <Lemon> yesterday I finally invested in everything to clean my devices btw
16:04 <rust_collector> you can eat it, snort it, rub it in your eyes... put it in ventilation fans
16:11 <coppice> pepper is so vague. which kind of pepper is important
16:29 <Ampera> nobody fucking cares, if it's round and it cracks, put it on the fucking food
16:34 <Ampera> I'd put pepper in my breakfast cereal
16:35 <Lemon> isopropanol alcool, kontakt 60 and 61, and to that I added a chipquik flux pen + some MG flux syringe
17:00 <rust_collector> oh good, so now you can make art
17:00 <coppice> Ampera: do you like a liberal sprinkling of sichuan pepper?
17:12 <Ampera> never had it, probably would
17:43 <coppice> Ampera: do you like your mouth becoming completely numb?
17:50 <Ampera> I am numb
18:10 <newbie> In the following datasheet, it mentions to use a 0.22uF cap between vcc and ground. : https://ibb.co/nkcJqGg -- could someone please advise what this cap is for?
18:46 <coppice> newbie: decoupling
19:36 <newbie> coppice if placed far away from the humidity/temp sensor will it cause erroneous readings to occur (e.g. humidity value off by a certain percentage) ?
20:10 <coppice> newbie: Its useless if placed far away. decoupling needs to be as close as possible to the device being decoupled
20:53 <coppice> newbie: that's why on a board with lots of chips you have lots of decoupling caps
20:57 <newbie> oh
21:43 <coppice> decoupling deals with the reality that you don't have a perfect power supply, or magical inductance free wiring
23:48 <Lemon> heh my gossen is perfect !
23:50 <newbie> I read that i2c devices need to have a short length of cable, I am currently trying 7 feet with the decoupling cap and pull up resistors placed on the other end of the cable (away from the sensor). Before I had soldered the sensor it was reading almost 75% RH in a microenvironment (salt slurry where the expected RH would be 75%). For that test I us
23:51 <newbie> ed a shorter cable length though the sensor was not soldered at that time. Now after soldering and using the longer cable it is about 79%RH so I am trying to figure out if the cause is the longer cable, the decoupling cap is far away, or the soldering has effected the sensor
25:57 <newbie> I used about 350c on my iron at about 5s per lead though at one point there was a solder bridge so there was a little more dwell time ... I am thinking it is the headsoldering that caused this to happen. does that seem the likely cause? I am thinking if it was noise (because the decoupling cap is far away) or because of the long cable I wouldn't e
25:57 <newbie> xperience constant results that have drifted but rather results that are all over the place etc
27:34 <Lemon> you let the system settle for a long time ?
27:41 <Lemon> or you took that measure directly after
27:43 <Kuschelpony> newbie, as coppice alsready has said, the decoupling capacitor is needed for stability
28:20 <Kuschelpony> so without it you might still get the right value most of the time, but occasional very wrong results as well, or just plain f...up when you switch a light or whatever
28:58 Quit: newbie ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
29:00 <Kuschelpony> hmm slow i2c over 2 meters should still work fine if you use twisted pairs where SDA&Ground and SCL&ground are tight twisted
29:03 Join: newbie ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
29:08 <Kuschelpony> oh ok sorry for flooding
29:21 <Kuschelpony> so without it you might still get the right value most of the time, but occasional very wrong results as well, or just plain f...up when you switch a light or whatever
29:24 <Kuschelpony> hmm slow i2c over 2 meters should still work fine if you use twisted pairs where SDA&Ground and SCL&ground are tight twisted
29:46 <Kuschelpony> but might need to check on the scope to keep reflections under control
31:05 <newbie> yes -- I started the test at 9:32pm 2021-05-27 (RH reading 55.69%) and ended it at 2021-05-28 at approx 7:10pm (RH reading 78.18%) -- repeated the test and left overnight and its about 79.79% -- prior to soldering it was around 75%RH
31:50 <newbie> so I am not getting occasional results that are way off, these are more constant results that show a drift so in this case I am guessing it is the head from that soldering which has caused this...
32:55 <Kuschelpony> perhaps as well
32:56 <newbie> heat*
34:42 Quit: newbie ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
34:47 Join: newbie ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
36:23 <Kuschelpony> but i am getting curious to also try such an sensor, just never got really into programming anything
36:41 <Kuschelpony> my world is more the analog side
36:43 <newbie> well I guess I will try another one and a lower solder temp / less dwell time
37:11 <Kuschelpony> hmm, lower temp is probably not SO important, but shortest time to not let the heath soak into the sensor
37:32 Quit: newbie ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
37:45 <Kuschelpony> maybe, just speculating, it might be an idea to place a moist piece of fabric on it
37:47 Join: newbie ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
37:52 <Kuschelpony> hmm, lower temp is probably not SO important, but shortest time to not let the heath soak into the sensor
37:55 <Kuschelpony> maybe, just speculating, it might be an idea to place a moist piece of fabric on it
38:07 <Kuschelpony> ok sorry i stop posting until your connection is reliable again
38:35 <newbie> I am here
40:27 <newbie> ok I will try to do minimize the time -- thank you!
41:29 <Lemon> alright, I bought another dmm it seems
41:40 <Lemon> its worse than drugs lol
43:01 Quit: newbie ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
56:17 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o Ysjoelfir
59:20 <Ysjoelfir> o/
59:59 * Ampera hugs Ysjoelfir 
00:44 <Ysjoelfir> so, in other news, I am not officially (half) 5G enabled and am reproducing Bill Gates' magnetic Nanobots!
00:50 <Ysjoelfir> *now
01:28 * rust_collector hangs a frying pan on Ysjoelfir 
01:46 * Ampera mounts Ysjoelfir on the wall as an ornamental hunting trophy
01:52 <Ysjoelfir> ouch! My 5G arm hurts a bit
01:57 <Ysjoelfir> woah!
02:09 * rust_collector cuts a hole in the wall, and sticks Ysjoelfirs head thru it
02:26 * Ampera mounts shelving on the rear end of Ysjoelfir 
02:48 * rust_collector throws chillinuts on Ysjoelfirs face
05:00 <Ysjoelfir> you have.... interesting ideas of decorating me
05:14 <rust_collector> I think I have to move to the place with no neighbors
05:22 <Lemon> hello Ysjoelfir !
05:33 <Lemon> heh just received the cable piercing thingies
05:52 <rust_collector> sssh!not so loud, he has wifi or whatever it was now
06:27 <Ysjoelfir> Lemon, and, do they work? rusty, why that?
06:44 <rust_collector> I don't know why you got that. ask bill
07:10 <rust_collector> I got a baggie of trimmer pots today
07:15 <rust_collector> party party
07:23 <Lemon> I got three different types, and I must say that yes they are super nice ! and quite good quality for about 5 euros the pair
07:57 <rust_collector> I like that the label says " diode 10pcs x2"
09:30 <Ysjoelfir> I meant why you don't like your neighbors
11:01 Join: EEVBot ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:11 Mode: (by ChanOP) +v EEVBot
11:21 <rust_collector> nah, they are ok. but I went over there to see what kind of wall he has, so I can tell him what kind of screws he needs to attach some curtains. and then we had to figure out how the toilet lid is attached, look at his milk carton house (!)
11:39 * electrohead yawns and waves
11:41 <Ysjoelfir> erm... o.o
11:55 * Ampera pukes and waves
12:01 <rust_collector> hey mr flappy arms
12:04 <Ysjoelfir> I agree, I would prefer non neighbors as well. and hi mr. head
12:26 * Ampera hugs electrohead
12:29 <Ampera> how are you doing electrolead?
12:56 <rust_collector> and did you get that job?
13:05 <Lemon> in silicone wires, you have a hard time seeing the hole Ysjoelfir
13:26 <rust_collector> many silicone things can find the hole just fine
14:26 <Lemon> for smaller pvc wires, it can damage them
14:38 <Lemon> but the screwing type I have is perfect for that
14:55 <rust_collector> yeah, that should be better
15:07 <electrohead> rust_collector: the phone interview went well, just awaiting them to call me, again
15:41 <rust_collector> ah. did you charge your phone?
16:00 <Lemon> im quite happy, overall
16:14 <Lemon> pomona ones were super short and about 35-40 euros a pair
16:24 <Lemon> the fake flukes costed 5 euros, 30+ for the real ones
16:30 <Lemon> and tbh all of them feels really nice
16:54 <electrohead> rust_collector: no, my phone was dead but somehow I was able to use it ???
17:01 * electrohead slaps rust_collector with common sense
17:05 <electrohead> (lol)
17:09 <rust_collector> 
18:33 <rust_collector> well, since you are like that, I will just post this again
18:35 <rust_collector> https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/15925/creamy-au-gratin-potatoes/
18:37 <EEVBot> [Title] - Creamy Au Gratin Potatoes | Allrecipes
20:56 <Ysjoelfir> great rusty, now mrs. spouse want me to do that
21:09 <rust_collector> Lemon I will go measure some batteries, if they are still ok, you might have to measure the size of yours,
21:21 <rust_collector> you are very welcome Ysjoelfir
21:50 <electrohead> that looks good
21:51 <Ysjoelfir> and, as a side note, its the first warm day for weeks now. looks like that is the sign for everyone to get out their lawnmower. its been mowing noises (especially sounds of ones where the carb isn't working good) from every direction since 7:30
22:28 <rust_collector> electrohead it is just a carrier for pepper
23:01 <Lemon> ha I will re-open it then ok, but why do you want the size ?
23:21 <rust_collector> because if they don't fit, there is not point?
23:50 <rust_collector> but that is just if I find some that are still good
24:38 <Lemon> haaa thats very kind rusty, but it will cost a ton to ship, I already have some batteries laying around !
25:02 <Lemon> I wish I could teleport myself sometimes
25:27 <Lemon> ho and Ysjoelfir, I bought a metrix dmm :> a rare model, 4.5 digits handheld ! with manual, "transport bag" for 20 euros delivered !
25:28 <rust_collector> I probably have to mow the lawn again in a couple days. it is the 3rd time this year. I don't think I mowed 3 times last year
27:11 <coppice> rust_collector: once it gets over 2m tall, you really need to get the scythe out
27:34 <rust_collector> napalm is your friend
28:55 <rust_collector> I mean... agent orange is hard to find these days.
29:33 <Lemon> or sheeps
29:51 <rust_collector> nah, those are easy to find
29:55 <Ysjoelfir> nice Lemon
30:03 <rust_collector> I would suggest goats, because they eat anything
30:05 <Ysjoelfir> and yes, sheeps are especially easy to find in rustyland
30:19 <Ysjoelfir> just look at every second trucks front grill
30:35 <Lemon> 0.05% DC accuracy, but im sure it will be better ! 20k counts, quite a steal for 20 euros, the manual itself is probably worth that lol
31:00 <Lemon> the other day I wanted to buy a manual for something on a website, 9.90 for the manual, and 9 euros for "treatement"
31:06 <Lemon> like, seriously
31:10 Join: TayZonday (TayZondayX`[email protected]) to #EEVblog
38:06 Quit: TayZonday (TayZondayX`[email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
50:03 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
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