#eevblog - 2021-02-11 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2021-02-11

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« 2021-02-10 2021-02-12 »
02:58 <Ampera> Kkk!
12:45 <steve30> hi
12:51 <Ampera> hi steve30
12:54 <Ampera> how are you doing
13:48 <steve30> i just got back. I went out with my video camera.
19:34 <Ysjoelfir> What did you film?
20:45 <steve30> A small tour round Doncaster town centre.
22:02 <Ampera> Isn't standing there innocently filming not on the list of state approved tasks you are graciously permitted to perform outside your own home?
27:04 <steve30> My journey there and back was exercise. Walking/running around with a video camera was definitely exercise. I can certainly feel in my legs that I walked a reasonable distance.
29:37 <Ampera> Do you have a license to exercise?
30:43 <steve30> I don't need one :)
30:47 <K> and do you have a permit for that license?
31:04 <Ampera> Alright, sir, I'll let you off with a light beating this time
31:13 <Ampera> but the next time I see you trying to have fun, I'll send you straight to the doghouse
31:50 <K> NO TRIAL!
34:58 <Ampera> Trials are discriminatory, they punish criminals far more than they do anyone else. That's why we'
35:04 <Ampera> ve gotten rid of them, to make things more equal
36:24 <steve30> I was also recording some of the government's new sensationalist advertising.
36:46 <steve30> They want me to "look her in the eye and tell him that my mask covers both my nose and my mouth"
37:34 <Ampera> no no no steve30 you're wearing the mask wrong
37:37 <Ampera> the mask is suppose to cover your eyes too
37:54 <Ampera> can't leave your house and infect anyone if you can't see, you see
37:57 <Ampera> or don't see, rather
38:31 <electrohead> o/
39:08 * Ampera snaps electrohead, shakes him and watches as he starts to glow
40:08 * rust_collector mornings
41:02 * Ampera wafts ozone towards rust_collector 
41:19 <rust_collector> sniff sniff
41:44 <Ampera> how are you doing electrohead and rust_collector
41:54 <electrohead> alright
41:57 <electrohead> you?
42:26 <Ampera> awake
42:42 <rust_collector> I just got out of bed. it is 2.40
43:06 <rust_collector> it could have been better
43:26 <Ampera> why did you get up that late then
44:01 <rust_collector> I enjoy not being awake some times
44:29 <rust_collector> I did go to bed around 7.30, so it is not that bad
44:42 <Ampera> you are a strange
45:15 * T3sl4 hugs Ysjoelfir
45:23 <Ysjoelfir> weeeee!
45:27 * Ysjoelfir hugs T3sl4 back
45:45 <rust_collector> squish!
46:23 * Ysjoelfir hugs rust_collector as well
47:15 * rust_collector thinks it is his fault, and goes to hide in the woods
48:01 <T3sl4> hsn, that's just a pasted table, or maybe there's a template somewhere
48:05 * Ampera hides with rust_collector, having received no hugs, and no love
48:36 <rust_collector> well, did you open the door, when the delivery guy was there?
48:48 <Ampera> yes, the trapdoor, he is in my basement now
49:01 * Ysjoelfir searches for Ampera and finds him under a rock
49:02 <Ampera> his legs are broken but they're still edible
49:07 * Ysjoelfir hugs the rock
49:24 * Ampera asks if Ysjoelfir is stoned
49:41 <Ysjoelfir> Kinda. I had a nap, so thats a simmilar thing
49:48 * Ampera throws the rock at Ysjoelfir 
49:49 <Ampera> well now you are
49:50 <rust_collector> TOHUVABOHU!
49:58 <Ampera> ASPARAGUS
50:31 <rust_collector> no thanks. I had that yesterday
50:35 * Ysjoelfir hasn't heard rust_collector's word for ages and wonders is anybody even knows what that is
50:42 <Ysjoelfir> also, I hate asparagus.
51:47 * steve30 needs coffee
51:50 <rust_collector> I have mixed feelings about it. it tastes ok in a soup, but I do not like the lumps of it.
52:11 <Ampera> I do not like any vegetables
53:11 <rust_collector> just wait, when they screw up a tree enough to grow pork on it
53:50 <rust_collector> enjoy the view across the pork fields, lol
53:57 <Ampera> if we plant enough live pigs in the ground something's bound to happen
54:20 * steve30 plants a sausage
54:52 * Ysjoelfir still has two Feuerwursts left
55:15 <Ysjoelfir> ampera didn't like it when I inserted my "Firesausage" into him earlyer this day... :(
55:46 <Ampera> You missed the "first" part in the term "at least buy me dinner first"
57:09 <T3sl4> rust_collector: https://i.imgflip.com/vh9im.jpg
00:05 <rust_collector> niice
05:41 <steve30> firesausage sounds interesting
05:59 <Ysjoelfir> its sadly not as hot as you would expect it to be from the name
06:53 <rust_collector> that depends on how much chilli powder you rub it with
07:08 <rust_collector> for extra scratchyness
23:11 <Ysjoelfir> :P
24:31 <rust_collector> mmm chilli flakes
31:08 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
32:16 <rust_collector> hmm, are stereo pots usually very expensive?
33:00 <steve30> probably
33:29 <Ysjoelfir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ErixkBBMFnzwWN5GR-iNMdk04u_mmMHs/view?usp=sharing argh, damn, I was just on the way to get my chainsaw out :(
33:37 <rust_collector> I mean, I get that they are more than regular pots, but 5 times seems a bit much, imo
34:25 <rust_collector> it looks like ave put his mark on the maker community
37:13 <Ysjoelfir> indeed
37:42 <rust_collector> so the next big thing is to feed boxes slightly into a wood chipper?
39:39 <Ysjoelfir> yes. just the tiiiiiiip
43:58 <rust_collector> I like dutch. well, written dutch
52:53 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Connection closed
53:26 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
54:19 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Connection closed
55:13 <Ysjoelfir> Yes. lets restrict it to being written.
56:18 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:24 <hsn> lol https://snipboard.io/dxTjur.jpg
02:57 <Ysjoelfir> rust_collector, is there a norwegian national instrument?
03:05 <Ysjoelfir> hsn: no.
18:31 <rust_collector> Ysjoelfir, there is
19:03 <Ysjoelfir> which one?
20:28 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yad1N7oB6P0
22:04 <Ysjoelfir> Looks simmilar to a violin, but it sounds different
22:15 <rust_collector> if that noise does not make you shit yourself...
22:42 <rust_collector> it is a crude dirty fiddle, not a pretty violin
23:27 <rust_collector> I just like how that guy has it down on his arm. most people hold them like a violin
23:53 <Ysjoelfir> lol^^ yeah, I noticed the way he holds it as well.
24:51 <rust_collector> it is a special interests sort of thing
27:43 <Ysjoelfir> I just looked up a list of national instruments. I could have sworn that the german one would be the Akkordeon. But looks like its the Waldzither. Haven't seen one of those for ages oO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1aXypi1Xxw
31:47 <rust_collector> One time, I found a strange box instrument with strings up in a tree
31:53 <Lord_of_nothing> i make a small website with the major youtube channels: http://www.nuo7.at/
33:58 <Ysjoelfir> did you leave it there, rusty? Or did you research what it was?
34:44 <rust_collector> no
35:00 <rust_collector> it is up in the attic somewhere, I think
35:45 <Ysjoelfir> you should learn to play it :) then we can start a band!
37:37 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufFYrFBDWLI damn that looks complicated. supposedly the bavarian version of the Waldzither
38:19 <rust_collector> this is the closest I can find. but one side is not flat like on that one, it is a nice curve on one side, iIrc
38:25 <rust_collector> https://www.amazon.com/Psaltery-traditional-stringed-instrument-9-string/dp/B07JJSH6XJ
39:49 <rust_collector> but I think it had fewer strings
39:49 <Ysjoelfir> nice :D That probably worth keeping then
40:43 <rust_collector> it looks to me made properly. like a cheap guitar.
41:39 <rust_collector> i dunno, it had 2 strings left. I probably have to go to the music store guy and ask what strings I would need, and maybe what it is
42:41 <Ysjoelfir> do that! And then we'll learn an instrument and start a colaboration some time!
43:28 <rust_collector> I don't think I am made for string instruments. Unless you only want to play slayer on bass
43:37 <Ysjoelfir> lol
43:49 <rust_collector> i have slow fingers
43:53 <Ysjoelfir> What would you think would be a good choice for you?
44:12 <rust_collector> compressor tuba was pretty fun
44:21 <Ysjoelfir> heh^^
45:00 <rust_collector> BLAAAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!!!
45:33 <rust_collector> I could maybe sell that sound to some dinosaur movie
46:34 <Ysjoelfir> indeed!
48:04 <Ysjoelfir> oh, there is a second instrument thats supposedly common in nordistan, called Langeleik. looks to be simmilar to the thing you found? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i9h28DcTV0
49:00 <rust_collector> eeh, sort of-ish. but mine is very small
49:52 <rust_collector> no not really. yes, it has strings.
49:57 <Ysjoelfir> lol
50:01 <Ysjoelfir> has strings. must be the same
50:08 <rust_collector> and is probably used in a similar way
50:38 <Ysjoelfir> but this thing does sound nice actually.
51:04 <rust_collector> it is much much better than the other one
51:17 <Ysjoelfir> I agree ^^
51:27 <Ysjoelfir> the fiffle is interesting, but sounds veeery harsh
51:51 <rust_collector> you do get enough of it after 4 hours in some historic market bullshit
51:57 <Ysjoelfir> XD
53:02 <rust_collector> maybe you should come see out viking market/concert some time.
53:51 <Ysjoelfir> I would love to
54:17 <rust_collector> it is a bit of both history crap, and metal. should be ok
54:31 <Ysjoelfir> XD everything gets better with metal
54:42 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/c/MidgardsblotMetalFestival/videos
56:31 <rust_collector> i don't really have to go there, as I can just go outside and hear it from here
58:32 <Ysjoelfir> its somehow cute that two of the sponsors on their website are just regions in norway^^
59:54 <rust_collector> yeah, they have to fix that
00:15 <rust_collector> vestfold fylkeskommune does not really exist any more
00:44 <Ysjoelfir> oh right, I remember that you hade kind of a small..... reorganization recently.
00:53 <rust_collector> yep
01:32 <rust_collector> in our case, it sort of makes sense, as we were a very small area, even if it is pretty full of people.
02:03 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:24 <rust_collector> iIrc, vestfold was around 120X45 km in each direction, so not very big
03:02 <Ysjoelfir> at least not for norwegian standards. that would be pretty big for a german.. erm... "area"
03:24 <rust_collector> but, that they joined finnmark and troms, up north... well, there are not many people there, but finnmark is larger than denmark
03:52 <rust_collector> seems a bit weird
04:02 <Ysjoelfir> they just wanted to be totally certain that it is definitely bigger than denmark!
04:34 <rust_collector> there was no question about that, unless you include greenland
04:42 <rust_collector> then... nope
07:26 <Ysjoelfir> weeeeeelllll....
07:34 <Ysjoelfir> lets just include all the smaller islands, not the big, cold one
08:44 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:02 <rust_collector> oh gawd. the suggested search thing is... weird
09:17 <rust_collector> Is russia bigger than spain?
09:28 <Ysjoelfir> rofl
09:30 <rust_collector> why is australia not an island
09:39 <rust_collector> which I sort of agree with
09:47 <Ysjoelfir> indeed
10:10 <Ysjoelfir> but the russia/spain thing... erm.... I am pretty sure that russia is just sliiiiiiiiiiiightly bigger
10:27 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
10:40 <rust_collector> eeh, no, it is just the quirks of the mercator projection...
11:06 <rust_collector> spain is rules everything
11:18 <Ysjoelfir> ah, yes, thats probably right :P
11:21 <Ampera> geodesics are fun
11:30 <Ampera> very very fun math
12:16 <rust_collector> too bad I missed the best part of spain.
12:22 <rust_collector> by a year so ro
12:24 <rust_collector> so
12:32 <rust_collector> or
12:35 <rust_collector> word word
12:49 <Ysjoelfir> :P
16:00 <T3sl4> wow, fuck me. i think i have a twitch in my ear muscle
16:14 * Ampera fucks T3sl4, since he asked
16:19 <T3sl4> :)
16:36 <T3sl4> once you go Ampera, you go deaf
16:54 <Ampera> Any hole's a goal.
21:29 <T3sl4> wow, did i toast the resistor in this attenuator? wtf
22:55 <T3sl4> completely open, no burn marks
26:08 <rust_collector> good job
29:37 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
37:08 <T3sl4> man, and i think that was my only 75R in TO-220
37:30 Join: steve30000 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
39:45 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
11:27 <rust_collector> have an ok evening!
25:44 Quit: Dantalion ([email protected]) Connection closed
38:10 Join: Dantali0n ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
40:09 <hsn> Alles klar
40:32 <steve30000> o/
40:51 <hsn> Entschuldigen
40:59 <hsn> Oui steve30000
41:08 <hsn> How is u do....ing
41:26 <steve30000> i just had some nice curry :p
41:55 <hsn> Nice .. appitet ?
57:44 * Ysjoelfir has now cheese-spinach-ham soup
01:20 <coppice> steve30000: does curry give you extra 000?
02:00 <steve30000> it could have
02:26 <coppice> steve30000: what kind of curry was it?
02:37 <steve30000> chicken jalfrezi
05:05 <coppice> steve30000: I'm not sure jalfrezi counts as a real curry. Its mostly spiced with chilli, rather than a complex characteristic masala
08:30 <steve30000> well, its spicy, saucy, and chickeny. That's curry enough for me :).
10:45 <coppice> steve30000: in India they never describe those things as saucy. They all seem to use the word gravy, which I found quite odd when I first travelled there
11:21 <T3sl4> also redundant, doesn't curry just mean "sauce for rice" or something?
12:57 <steve30000> Gravy does seem like an odd choice of word (to me as an english man), but it makes sense.
13:30 <steve30000> T3sl4, I did mix the rice in with the sauce
13:33 Nick: steve30000 is now known as steve30
15:27 <T3sl4> would hope so
15:43 <coppice> T3sl4: curry is actually a British word. Its a corruption of the word for sauce in one of the Indian languages
16:01 <T3sl4> yeah, that
16:41 <Ampera> Curry here is defined as any yellow powder, whatsoever. Even if it's yellowcake and highly radioactive, it's still good on rice
17:11 <Ampera> where here = inside my head
17:18 <coppice> Yellow curry powders are not Indian at all. They are usually Malaysian or Chinese
17:25 <T3sl4> in your heeeeeeead, zombie, zombie
17:35 <steve30> language aside, my out of date M&S jal frezi was very tasty :p.
17:47 <Ampera> My dad always said curry the stuff they sweep up from the floor of the spice factory
19:23 <T3sl4> it's a rich mix, or it's supposed to be. if that expression implied a diverse (if haphazard?) mix, rather than being contaminated with dirt, it would be a good fit
20:50 <Ampera> It implied a diverse, but haphazard mix.
22:13 <coppice> Ampera: It can be a little unsafe to confuse turmeric and yellow cake
22:46 <Ampera> The question is not if it is safe, but if it would make a good sauce to go on rice
22:55 <steve30> T3sl4, In your part of the world, what do you get if you go to a Chinese takeaway and order a 'Chicken Curry'?
23:34 <coppice> Ampera: can an unsafe sauce be a good sauce?
23:34 <T3sl4> steve30, not yellowcake
24:10 <Ampera> Chinese takeout places rarely do curries as far as I'm aware
24:48 <Ampera> Mine has, just simply "Curry beef", "Curry shrimp", and "Curry chicken"
25:20 <Ampera> the annoying thing about this place is, though, you have purely the title to go by
25:25 <coppice> steve30: depends on the region, but the kinda general national style of curry you'll find in China uses a similar masala to a Malaysian curry. It contains a lot of turmeric, and is quite yellow
25:31 <Ampera> I have no idea what is in any of these things unless I buy it
26:17 <Ampera> coppice, I suppose if you combine any generally good sauce with a deadly, but undetectable, poison, it'd be a good, but unsafe sauce
26:37 <steve30> Here, "Chinese curry" is yellowy stuff
27:18 <coppice> steve30: those bright yellow Singapore noodles packs you'll find in a UK supermarket. Those are spiced with Malaysian/Chinese curry power
27:19 <Ampera> The only curry I usually ever have is curry flavored instant noodles
28:05 <Ampera> best I know I have thai and indonesian varieties of those, and occasionally will have refrigerated curry yakisoba too
28:19 <Ampera> they all tend to be fairly similar yellow curries
28:45 <steve30> we have the Amoy brand singapore noodles.
28:48 <coppice> Ampera: A Japanese current isn't usually yellow. Mid to dark brown is more the norm
29:01 <Ampera> The generic curry powder I typically use is from Badia, and is a "Jamaican" style, but is just a generic yellow curry powder
29:10 <Ampera> coppice, now that you mention it, it probably was, though it didn't taste too different
29:26 <coppice> Jamaican curries are really good.
29:48 <Ampera> https://badiaspices.com/product/curry-powder-616/
30:29 <Ampera> It looks more orange than it really is in those pictures
30:55 <coppice> Jamaican's like lots of fruit in their curries. I like the result
31:21 <Ampera> I've never had fruit in a curry, but I in general like most fruits
32:14 <Ampera> Curry is an annoying term really, there's so many fucking variations of curry and I've just not had a great variety to declare the difference
32:39 <Ampera> doesn't help that a considerable number of them tend to be quite vegetal, and thus outside of my capabilities to (easily) eat
33:12 <steve30> I have a pot of "curry powder" in the cupboard which was out of date in the late 2000s. It is mostly turmeric.
33:19 <coppice> steve30: I've never tried any of the ready made singapore noodles in the supermarkets here. Its a popular HK dish (its a singapore style thing, but its actually from HK). We make it from scratch
34:18 <steve30> I'd say the Amoy singapore noodles have a rather boring flavour. I don't know what singapore noodles is /supposed/ to taste like. I just use them when I want something noodly.
34:53 <coppice> steve30: from the look of the Tescos brand ones they might be nothing more than rice noodles stained yellow :)
35:13 <steve30> sounds about right
35:46 <coppice> Amoy is a well known HK brand, but I don't remember ever buying anything of theirs
36:29 <Halcyon> Morning all
36:42 <steve30> hi
36:47 * steve30 passes Halcyon a noodle
37:02 <Halcyon> Yummy
40:01 <Halcyon> T3sl4: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpfAnMhW4AA4hoe?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
40:27 * T3sl4 nibbles on Halcyon
43:29 <hsn> https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLHN0lngDH0/?igshid=1nyd6f6hmbnll
45:01 <Halcyon> This is also very accurate: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElrOA8-XIAIOctD?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
45:34 <Halcyon> hsn, I think that guy fancies himself as good looking
45:38 <Halcyon> But meh
46:01 <hsn> i was reading about Y capacitor being used across the forward smps transformer to supress noise .. the guy says .. the higher power the psu have more challange as the "higher capacitor to supress emc .. introduce shock safety issues ..
46:24 <hsn> So the question .. what does designers do to over come this usually ^
46:42 <T3sl4> well, shielding, better filtering, or not doing that in the first place
46:46 <hsn> Halcyon: i noticed
46:56 <T3sl4> i.e. balanced drive, from a 2-switch or full bridge inverter
48:52 <hsn> T3sl4: where does the shielding apply .. isnt the noise coupled within the transformer ?
49:04 <T3sl4> right
49:09 <T3sl4> so where would we place the shield? ;)
49:11 <Halcyon> Anyway, work time. Laters.
50:13 <T3sl4> o/
50:22 <hsn> I u shield the transformer it self .. that coupling isnt already happening within the core ? ie shielding is ... Hmm doing nothing
50:24 <hsn> ?
50:28 <hsn> See u Halcyon
50:31 <hsn> Emjoys
50:39 <hsn> If u shield ^^
51:10 <T3sl4> the coupling is between windings inside the transformer?
51:14 <T3sl4> so the shield should be--?
51:15 <hsn> I mean .. i thought the noise is happening in the core ... Shielding the whole transformer will do nothing ^
52:54 <hsn> -- means here ?
53:30 <hsn> If u shield the windings .. wouldn't u .. make the inductors "shit" core ? ..
53:33 <hsn> Or .. the magmatic field wont pass the shield to go into the core ^
53:44 <T3sl4> why would you make a shorted turn shield?
54:21 <hsn> U think i know what im saying ? Lol
54:45 <hsn> Im probing and gathering words from u to google .. so i go do my research .. thanks ..
57:40 <hsn> T3sl4: i would guess u mean.. the shield here is between the two windings. . horizonzal plane in this picture https://images.app.goo.gl/ZzxKbH79pjqhAMfD6
58:24 <T3sl4> uh no, that's all windings going around all the core pieces
59:31 <hsn> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6KQPsFKw2bzL4vin7
00:27 <hsn> Imagine the yellow is core .. the gray is winding .. ^^
01:00 <hsn> Because i actually misinterpreted the picture ^ but thats the idea right?
02:11 <T3sl4> you know what & means, right?
02:55 <T3sl4> putting pri and sec literally on separate cores, accomplishes nothing
03:01 <hsn> And ?
03:04 <T3sl4> it's easy to get isolation if there's no power flow either
03:19 <T3sl4> it's meaningless if it's not "primary AND secondary" :P
05:21 <hsn> T3sl4: Idk what that (2 core) picture is for .. but imagine the gray is windings .. yellow is core .. its 2 windings in 1 core.. ??
05:39 <T3sl4> there's 2 cores because it's making an EE shape
05:55 <hsn> Viewed from top view
10:23 <hsn> https://photos.app.goo.gl/H5ShfZaSr67xnBzP8
10:41 <hsn> This is what i mean .. blue is windings .. red is shield .. T3sl4
12:08 <T3sl4> that one doesn't matter because the windings aren't on top of each other
12:12 <T3sl4> but if they were....
14:20 <hsn> Ok .. so its being done as a foil between pri and secondary winding .. the type of transformer that being winded on top of each other .. ^^
14:52 <T3sl4> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/sales_and_marketing/promotional_material/newsletter/group0/3a/7c/81/02/29/8b/47/dc/Wurth__Midcom_DE_Presentation_Lyon/files/Wurth__Midcom_DE_Presentation_Lyon.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.Wurth__Midcom_DE_Presentation_Lyon.pdf
14:56 <T3sl4> https://www.powerint.cn/sites/default/files/PDFFiles/ipEShield.pdf
19:53 <hsn> Yeah the st one makes sense
29:55 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
59:13 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:34 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
20:18 <T3sl4> NeroTHz: know anything about peaking circuits into resistive loads? i've got Staric & Margan here but they've only got the C-load case (e.g. cascading one amp into another's input, or electron beam deflection plates)
21:23 <T3sl4> can't seem to find a reference for a non-C-load case, in terms of topology (if it changes at all?) and suitable parameters
02:06 <T3sl4> oooh, i think it just needs an off-center tapped coil
07:34 Join: wlab2_no ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:43 <wlab2_no> anyone home? elloh elloh
09:57 <T3sl4> hi
10:23 <wlab2_no> good day mr T3sl4
10:30 <coppice> T3sl4: you'll never win at hide and seek
10:31 <Ysjoelfir> mornings rusty
10:54 <wlab2_no> morgen
11:07 <T3sl4> but i'm great at pin-the-tail-on-the-coppice
12:05 <wlab2_no> staple the stickyout part to the table game
19:31 <wlab2_no> great. i am early, and nothing is happening here
20:56 <wlab2_no> or here
22:08 <T3sl4> or there
22:49 <wlab2_no> especially not there. there is completely dead
25:07 Quit: NeroTHz ([email protected]) EOF from client
26:13 <wlab2_no> hmm is there a real difference between a headphone amplifier, and a normal speaker amplifier? they tend to have different... ohms. but does that make the amplifier different?
26:53 <T3sl4> i mean, one is bigger
28:18 <wlab2_no> usually yes, but. do they use different designs, or is one just "more"
32:40 <T3sl4> pretty much
32:40 <coppice> depends on the app. If its mobile they tend to all be class D these days. If power is less important, you can drive headphones from almost any small signal amp, but you want s beefier arch to drive a speaker
32:58 <T3sl4> ^ that. if efficiency matters, class D
33:06 <T3sl4> if it's internal, doesn't even need filtering
33:18 <T3sl4> typical of cellphones, powered speakers, that sort of thing
34:00 <T3sl4> else, some kind of class ab amp most likely, with various tweaks for efficiency or distortion or speed
36:22 <wlab2_no> i do not do efficiency. I do know about the class a ab b and then skip to d. but i am just wondering, just in general. could i take a headphone amp, and replace all the components with the "same, just bigger" and end up with a speaker amp
36:47 <wlab2_no> if you get what i mean
37:54 <wlab2_no> just in theory
39:05 <wlab2_no> meh, it does not matter, i dont even know if i have any speakers
47:38 <T3sl4> assuming you can get at the components, sure, more or less
48:24 <T3sl4> kind of hard to do if it's an IC of course :P
49:10 <wlab2_no> sure, it was a just in theory sort of question
56:27 <wlab2_no> ok, good time, i am done in the town of crrrapp
56:38 Quit: wlab2_no ([email protected]) Quit: leaving
10:30 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Cardano. Third highest crypto market cap in the world behind bitcoin and Ethereum, and it's doing this, but no one seems to be talking about it. LOL https://t.co/AqVhXD6x6M
38:52 <MrMobodies> Hello
38:56 <MrMobodies> Anyone own a Macbook?
39:27 <MrMobodies> just came across this video, shocking from the last time I opened one up.
39:29 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiCBYAP_Sgg
42:08 <MrMobodies> I know someone who brought a new Apple for over I think it was £2000 in about mid 2018 and that got really hot on the bottom. I asked if they have an extended warranty... no. I knew something was up with the heating and now it's come to light with a newer model.
51:19 <MrMobodies> Oh sorry I just realised that video was about an Air model which is different.
52:21 <coppice> It lacks a heat pipe. you'd never get away with that with a pentium
56:09 <coppice> I wonder how bad that cooling is, once the covers are on. It might be pulling air across the whole machine, and getting a reasonable flow across the CPU.... not enough it would seem, but more then Louis is giving it credit for
14:36 <MrMobodies> I'd imagine that would have to spin a lot to get that cpu temperature in control
17:13 <MrMobodies> I found this post: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250601980#:~:text=The newer Apple laptops will,what websites you are visiting.
17:59 <MrMobodies> "The newer Apple laptops will get hot when being used. It is normal. The laptops contain very powerful CPUs in a very slim case so heat will build up in them. Even just using a web browser can stress the laptop and make it hot depending on what websites you are visiting." Bullsh*t. To me that is not normal to design it to overheat
19:15 <MrMobodies> no different to the "powerful" laptops over ten years ago when they had those tiny fans in the back and in 2015 I was given a box with many boards from that time. Many with BLACK heatpipes
19:58 Quit: orzel ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
20:00 <MrMobodies> the man who give them to me told me about his personal 17 inch toshiba, that cost him about £1800 and only lasted for about 3 years
20:34 <MrMobodies> I had a look, took it apart and it had a Geforce graphics card embedded on the motherboard
21:49 <MrMobodies> it had it's own memory which was good but fan was decent size but the problem is they had this tiny heapipe shared with the Duo quad core cpu in there.
25:24 <MrMobodies> Even the Lenovo W700 that I am using right had a "powerful" CPU in it for its time and I chose it based on cooling. It never overheated apart from one time in the bag when failed to enter sleep.
58:23 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
09:11 <coppice> MrMobodies: I had a lot of trouble with a laptop overheating in transit when Windows 7 went through an extensive period of screwing up its sleep modes
10:19 <coppice> Most laptops are now a pain for the average person to open, yet they tend to need opening every year to get the fluff out, or they overheat
16:19 <MrMobodies> I had a customer just before the recent lockdown, he had an old Macbook that was getting a bit hot, it was filthy, never been clean
16:40 <MrMobodies> I cleaned the keyboard out, took the datavac and it was full of dust
17:04 <MrMobodies> it was easy to open but lots of screws. It was a 2010 model I think and he wanted to buy a new one
17:32 <MrMobodies> now I got warn him about which model to buy to include the heatpipe
17:41 <MrMobodies> if hasn't brought one already
18:50 <MrMobodies> what I find strange is that there are long 3 long back cover screws but one of the screw is smaller
19:19 <MrMobodies> oh and his rubber feet were missing something
19:47 <MrMobodies> but that one had a heat pipe in there
20:21 <MrMobodies> and it was nice and orangy hardly any sign of overheating in that despite it running a little hot
21:43 <MrMobodies> I found it was running slow due to an indexing thing Spotlight? something like that, I can't remember the name but I switched it off somewhere in settings.
22:12 <MrMobodies> it was affecting when the wife was doing her typing
22:16 <MrMobodies> and no complaints after that
23:53 <MrMobodies> the email client was having problems with the amount of emails but just removed them mostly marketting and it was okay. that's all they use it for.
54:57 <rust_collector> I wonder how much longer moms macbook thing will work. It is not like she uses it for anything special, but it has to be pretty old by now
58:57 <MrMobodies> sounds like nothing to worry about
59:15 <rust_collector> nah, I am just curious.
59:46 <rust_collector> that is (I think) an air, because it is very small and thin.
00:07 <MrMobodies> I think I did come across an Apple Air many years ago at a building company
00:37 <MrMobodies> brand new and I set it for the company's emails and vpn for the documents
01:03 <MrMobodies> it was for the insurance they had a package built for it
01:30 <MrMobodies> It didn't feel hot when I had
01:46 <rust_collector> and she still has the half-old emac (?) the desktop thing. i sort of want to install a useful os on that one, but... nah
02:29 <rust_collector> that seems to be a pretty nice older computer, imo.
02:47 <MrMobodies> is that the one with the crt monitor built into it?
03:09 <MrMobodies> the desktop thing
03:23 <rust_collector> no, it is not ancient, it is more like the computer built into a flat tv
03:34 <MrMobodies> oh I forgot about those
03:41 <MrMobodies> the very large one
03:51 <MrMobodies> where the memory is in the center bottom
03:53 <rust_collector> it is the intel thing, I wonder if it is a 27 inch?
04:17 <rust_collector> I don't know what it has inside. I have managed to never touch it
04:18 <MrMobodies> and the power supply is on left? and I came across one that overheated.
04:42 <rust_collector> imac, emac... something like that
05:04 <MrMobodies> I know the one I came across in 2012 had two blows on either side which was good
05:28 <rust_collector> but yea, it looks like a pretty nice machine, for some stuff
05:29 <MrMobodies> but the power supply was far away and not enough airflow
06:22 <MrMobodies> I remembered getting some ram for that too someone on ebay was many selling 2gb's for £10 in 2012,
06:43 <MrMobodies> all branded like Hynix, I think these were Elipda ones
06:54 <MrMobodies> it was a bargain
07:28 <MrMobodies> but this boy used it for his design work
07:36 <MrMobodies> he lived a couple of doors down from me
07:44 <MrMobodies> he use to work for Getty images
08:01 <MrMobodies> but they made him redundant
08:12 <MrMobodies> I think he said something about being taken over
08:13 <rust_collector> wow, this was weird, wife made spicy meatballs today. they are almost red
08:34 <rust_collector> but they have no sign of spicyness...
08:35 <MrMobodies> I though the sauce is red
08:42 <rust_collector> there is no sauce
09:43 <rust_collector> so, these were very mild, even for being regular meatballs, so I wonder if she just put some red "paint" in them
23:57 <T3sl4> tomato powder? paprika instead of cayenne?
24:34 <rust_collector> not even paprika, I think. this is really... just red
38:33 <MrMobodies> I just had some toast and fish
38:45 <MrMobodies> tinned spicy tomato mackeral
39:11 <MrMobodies> I am feel very miserable, I don't know why, maybe I coming down with a cold
39:23 <MrMobodies> nothing terrible has happened
40:15 <rust_collector> maybe toast makes you sad. that would make sense
41:29 <MrMobodies> well it was before that
41:37 <MrMobodies> it could be the coldness
42:02 <MrMobodies> I was suppose prepare that wood for the wiring tray
42:04 <rust_collector> it could be time for a long hot shower.
42:06 <MrMobodies> but not in this weather
42:24 <rust_collector> eh? is it raining?
42:50 <MrMobodies> no it's snowing a little
43:00 <MrMobodies> and it's going to be -8c according to the weather
43:14 <rust_collector> ok, that is probably not ideal for wood things.
43:33 <MrMobodies> I don't remember it being like this for like 30 years
43:40 <rust_collector> well, that is good. 8 is a good temp
43:41 <MrMobodies> it got like this for about a day
43:43 <MrMobodies> but not weeks
44:39 <rust_collector> i think you used to have winters over there, some time ago
45:36 <MrMobodies> 1987 there was lots of snow
45:49 <MrMobodies> right up over the heels
45:56 <rust_collector> hah
45:58 <MrMobodies> but most years was cold but not like this
46:13 <rust_collector> over the heels, lol
46:17 <MrMobodies> thoops knee
46:29 <MrMobodies> the knne I mean
46:41 <MrMobodies> that was only ondce and it cleared up after a couple of days
47:00 <rust_collector> and it is also almost nothing, but... yes
47:06 <MrMobodies> got the hairdryer on
47:08 <MrMobodies> lovelly
47:12 <MrMobodies> heat is what i need
47:28 <MrMobodies> another 10 minutes and i think I'll be back to normal
47:29 <rust_collector> you should make a tent-poncho thing you can sit in
47:46 <rust_collector> a hot tent sort of thing
48:11 <MrMobodies> that would be nice
48:18 <MrMobodies> I could also breathe the fresh air
48:29 <MrMobodies> actually it is icey out there
49:04 <MrMobodies> I got a bargain yesterday
49:32 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Napatech-NT4E-4-STD-801-0077-04-22-4-Port-Network-Capture-Adapter-073-007902-02/143782975629
49:44 <MrMobodies> has driver support and the packet capture tools too
50:07 <MrMobodies> unlike that other one that I have still yet to get working
50:20 <MrMobodies> comes with the modules
51:59 <MrMobodies> looking forward to when that arrives and I am prepared for it
52:05 <MrMobodies> and see what it can do
52:54 <MrMobodies> if it works well and with the offloading features I might consider some of these 10gbps models:
52:55 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Napatech-NT20E2-2-PORT-10Gbps-PCIe-810-0024-03-04/274426874618?
54:14 <MrMobodies> the fireplace people said they are coming out in 14 days
54:24 <MrMobodies> tomorrow it will be time to write a review on it
54:34 <rust_collector> heh. that is perfect.
54:37 <rust_collector> 2 weeks
54:50 <MrMobodies> perfect for them
55:17 <MrMobodies> it is the coldest from yesterday and that thing stops working and not even a year old
55:25 <MrMobodies> that was fitted in May last year
55:50 <MrMobodies> the problem is the flue is too small and that was with the limited choices
55:57 <MrMobodies> changing the battery in there is difficult too
56:48 <MrMobodies> thats the controler module and to start it, it is hidden under the fireplace
57:01 <MrMobodies> it has a usb 5v and a kit for it
57:13 <MrMobodies> but I was told it would void "their warranty"
57:37 <MrMobodies> so I am going to complain and try and get them to fit one
58:21 <MrMobodies> we were told if it was the battery we'd be billed for the callout
59:03 <MrMobodies> I just want to plug it in and it to work, no flaff around looking for the batteries
59:22 <MrMobodies> but the valves need cleaning according to the error codes
00:10 <MrMobodies> something tells me that is what the engineers are looking for so they can charge (which is why they didn't want us to order the manufacturer's USB power kit)
24:37 * electrohead offers beer
29:09 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
31:34 Join: Ysjoelfir_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
32:58 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
33:00 Nick: Ysjoelfir_ is now known as Ysjoelfir
40:21 * T3sl4 hocks one of electrohead's beers at Ysjoelfir's face
41:10 <electrohead> lol
41:13 <electrohead> hey guys
41:16 * electrohead shakes it
00:09 <rust_collector> hey person
07:41 * T3sl4 distills another of electrohead's beers down to vodka, hocks that at rust_collector
08:02 <rust_collector> yum
08:32 <rust_collector> all beer should be distilled like that
09:03 <T3sl4> it's usually called whisky, although, not quite
09:29 <T3sl4> but that's always aged, not the neutral grain spirit
11:26 <rust_collector> most of the vodka made here, is from potatoes. probably just to annoy the irish
11:53 <T3sl4> most of it here, starts with neutral grain spirits, of varying degree of refinement
12:31 <rust_collector> it seems like going over there to rape their nuns was not seen as proper any more, so they started making potato drinks in stead
13:38 <rust_collector> most vodkas from anywhere else seems to be grain based. I don't know why we went for potato
14:50 <T3sl4> they grow better at those lattitudes
15:26 <rust_collector> well, we do have grains... i dunno
16:47 <T3sl4> maybe just not enough to handle all the bread and beer and spiritmakings? dunno
18:40 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:17 * T3sl4 gives Kuschelpony a brushie
21:01 <Kuschelpony> good morning (and off to work in 15 minutes)
21:08 <rust_collector> WOOHOO!
21:36 <Kuschelpony> 4am here :)
21:40 <rust_collector> what a weird time to start work. (I know, it is me)
21:50 <T3sl4> gruel-ing work, that glue factory is
21:53 <rust_collector> yes, 4.21 here
21:57 <rust_collector> hah
22:01 <Kuschelpony> i start at 6 but i have some train and bus rides to go there
22:11 <T3sl4> get it, because they use flour paste, not hooves, that would be monstrous!
22:26 <rust_collector> I HATE working in the office hours
22:30 <Kuschelpony> and im the morning bird anyway, just looking if i got some important messages
23:01 <rust_collector> the shift I have had lately is perfect, I start at 18.30, just when the office people go home
24:13 <rust_collector> so, go to work, fill my coffee, steal the rest of any cakes, then start doing "work"
24:52 <T3sl4> mmm, cakes
25:14 <rust_collector> the office people do eat a lot...
26:00 <T3sl4> but you're not complaining
26:22 <rust_collector> oh, sure i am. I am employed, so I complain
26:40 <rust_collector> that is half of my job
27:20 <T3sl4> true. it wouldn't be employment if there weren't reason to complain
29:32 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
29:47 <rust_collector> hide glue mmmm
30:42 <T3sl4> you had to say that, just as they went into hideing
31:21 <rust_collector> I wonder what I would do, if I had to find a different kind of job.
32:06 <rust_collector> we have all kinds of people at work, some have real educations and stuff.
33:46 <rust_collector> funny how those end up driving forklifts and such. I am pretty sure those who decide things don't have much education
43:05 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: A few more people I know have poped up on Signal. It might be a thing.
44:25 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Ford Fischer: Just as an example of how YouTube continues to treat independent journalists differently than mega-corporations: My footage was used in impeachment, so I reuploaded recording of the video. My copy is “inappropriate or offensive” and 18+ NBC’s is unrestricted. Exact same video https://t.co/zKRYuLnc3J
14:09 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
11:35 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: This is great. The founders of Tesla telling the story like you'd expect two engineers would: https://t.co/89A68i123j
03:44 <hsn> Morning
05:33 <hsn> rust_collector: there is camera in office?
13:14 <hsn> https://www.instagram.com/p/CLGR_sel8ac/?igshid=dnizng24ozun
10:00 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Changing hosts
10:00 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:10 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o Ysjoelfir
10:38 <Ysjoelfir> mornings
41:38 <K> hello cabbages
41:49 <Ysjoelfir> Hello mr. tootsie roll!
42:06 <K> u call me fat??!?!11
42:41 <Ysjoelfir> Those things seem to be fatty, yes. but also tasty.
42:49 <K> then i shall smite thee with this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCFOcqsnc9Y
44:05 <Ysjoelfir> thats so completely the opposite to what I was listening to before (and god does that person look strange oO)
44:55 <K> how dare you! it is art!
45:11 <Ysjoelfir> well, is it?
45:57 <K> but ofc it is
46:07 <Ysjoelfir> oh, ok
49:04 <Halcyon> Evening
49:13 <Ysjoelfir> mornings mr. hulk
12:42 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:03 <hsn> Hah 10:57 https://youtu.be/hH4akEInp-Q
21:56 <hsn> Solderista
29:57 <Ysjoelfir> nice^^
30:23 <Ysjoelfir> damn, I can't find my old custom library for AVRs >_> have to write it again.
31:33 <Watcher> i have never seen some one use a pallete to put the solder in before appling to the pcb
52:47 <Ysjoelfir> I wonder if it is possible to output a custom compiler error message in c (for AVRs). like if I create a function that takes 1 or 0 as an input and I have a typo, feeding eg a 2 into said function. would I be able to make a statement in my function to catch said cases and return an compiler error in that case? Anybody an Idea?
08:17 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
12:21 <steve30> hi
36:25 <Halcyon> Hey steve30
37:04 <steve30> Just going to disappear for a bit while i do some connection tests
42:37 Join: BigClive ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:13 Quit: BigClive ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
43:33 Join: BigClive ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:57 Join: steve30000 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
44:13 Quit: BigClive ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
45:23 Join: Guest|61622 (Guest61622`[email protected]) to #EEVblog
45:31 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
49:04 <steve30000> If I connect by ethernet to the downstairs router I get 40Mbps down & 10 up
51:31 Quit: Guest|61622 (Guest61622`[email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
53:04 <Halcyon> Compared to?
53:19 <steve30000> some lower number over wireless
53:20 <K> when he does not connect, he gets 0 up and 0 down
56:31 <steve30000> silly thing doesn't tell you the DSL sync speed
00:16 <hsn> Ysjoelfir: if u use macros...
00:46 <hsn> With #if guards
00:51 <Ysjoelfir> yes?
01:01 <hsn> U can #error ...
05:27 <Ysjoelfir> can you show me an example?
06:54 <hsn> Wait .. i need to check it .. now im thinking if it would be expanded in preprocess stage
07:24 <Ysjoelfir> thats exactly what I thought it would do,so I doubt that'll work sadly
09:34 <Ysjoelfir> woohoo, my new keyboard is supposed to arrive now!
09:46 <steve30000> Anyone would think we were on a 40/10 connection. I assumed we were on 80/20, but maybe not.
10:06 <steve30000> yay keyboard
10:07 * Ysjoelfir has 200/40 which is not often reached recently
10:11 * steve30000 gets paws ready
10:18 <Ysjoelfir> yes, yay keyboard! :D
11:07 * steve30000 brb
12:59 Join: steve30000000 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
14:25 <steve30000000> hmm, looks like we are indeed on 40/10. That would explain the slowness. I'm sure we used to have 80/20.
14:28 Nick: steve30000000 is now known as steve30
15:16 Quit: steve30000 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:36 <steve30> and far worse over wireless
16:36 <steve30> https://www.speedtest.net/result/10911453918.png
18:39 <Ysjoelfir> wow, its as fast as advertised for once https://www.speedtest.net/result/10911462365
22:17 <steve30> nice
25:55 Quit: Andre ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
36:29 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, its stupid .. probably there is much better version should work as warning
36:29 <hsn> #define errorFunc(x) (x/0)
36:29 <hsn> #define func(x) ((x != 0 && x!= 1)?errorFunc(1):realFunc(x))
36:30 <hsn> void realFunc(int c){
36:30 <hsn> printf("well: %d\n", c);
36:32 <hsn> }
36:34 <hsn> void main(){
36:36 <hsn> printf("hello\n");
36:38 <hsn> func(1);
36:39 <hsn> func(0);
36:42 <hsn> func(2);
36:43 <hsn> }
37:06 <hsn> wont work if u pass variables
37:16 <Ysjoelfir> which I do sadly xD
37:30 <hsn> i dont think there is one that will work with variables .. im not sure
37:58 <hsn> as compiler is just gonna pass the location of the thing to the function .. it wont be processed .. at compiling stage
38:58 <hsn> ^ like if u pass the value of peripheral register to function .. compiler doesnt know what the hell u r passing in compile stage ..
39:02 <Ysjoelfir> but I am at another thing which irritates me. HAven't coded anything for quite a while now and I am very irritated.... if I do PORTD |= (1 << PD0) in the main it works as expected and turns on a LED. If I put the exact same thing into a function (but with port and pin as variables) and call that function... it doesn't. wth? that always worked "Back than"?
39:57 <hsn> where is ur function ? same file ?
40:06 <Ysjoelfir> yep
40:21 <hsn> can i see it ?
40:29 <Ysjoelfir> int setBit(int setPort, int setPin)
40:29 <Ysjoelfir> {
40:29 <Ysjoelfir> 	setPort |= (1 << setPin);
40:30 <Ysjoelfir> }
40:40 <hsn> hmm
40:56 <hsn> try volatile int setPort
41:03 <hsn> no
41:04 <hsn> wait
41:57 <K> y u abuse macros?
42:30 <Ysjoelfir> because I can? :D Is there a problem with that?^^ As I said numeropus times, I am neither good at coding nor do I particulatrely like it :D
42:39 <hsn> int setBit(volatile int *setPort, int setPin){ *setPort |= (1<< setPin); }
42:53 <hsn> this one maybe ^
43:14 <hsn> i know the reason i dont know how to fix it without trying Ysjoelfir xD ..
43:56 <Ysjoelfir> nope, doesn't work, but I read that its not nice to NOT use pointers.. but I never realy understood why. so that is at least closer to what one is supposed to do I think
44:30 <hsn> but it would also work if u do it as #define setBit( port, pin)
44:39 <hsn> which is being used alot ^
45:07 <Ysjoelfir> which is what I did before, and that actually works, but I got hit on the head so many times that this is soooooooooooo nasty and forbidden and you should never do that
45:43 <K> https://pastebin.com/YeYpHtJy
45:47 <hsn> the reason this one (int setBit(int setPort, int setPin)) wont work .. the peripheral address passed to the function ..
46:00 <hsn> that function just modify the argument .. not the peripheral it self
46:23 <hsn> ^ yeah K version is being used alot ^
46:30 <K> PORTD is a memory location
46:46 <Ysjoelfir> as I said, I used that before as well, but I was told that its nasty and that I should put that in a function
46:48 <K> if you want to refer to it, and not the contents of that location, you have to use a pointer
47:27 <K> i am not sure what the size of "int" is there.
47:29 <K> is it avr?
47:58 <hsn> but now im thinking why "setBit(volatile int *setPort) wont work ?
48:07 <hsn> probably the portD isnt int ?
48:12 <Ysjoelfir> yep, its avr
48:25 <hsn> i thought avr has 16 bit address which is what int is ?
48:31 <Ysjoelfir> i think int is uint16_t
48:38 <K> i would use uint8_t for all my register twiddling
48:48 <hsn> aah
48:50 <hsn> yeah
49:00 <K> pointer itself is 16 bits yes
49:06 <hsn> volatile uint8_t *setPort
49:13 <K> but stuffing it into a signed type "int" is asking for trouble
49:30 <K> not sure you need "volatile" there, but eh.
49:33 * Ysjoelfir prefers to use his redefined stuff (like "int8") because always typing _t to every freakin' var is annoying
50:02 <Ysjoelfir> k, can you explain what that _BV in your function does?
50:03 <K> i dont do that, but no comment there
50:12 <K> BV is a macro from avr
50:17 <Ysjoelfir> what does it do?
50:26 <hsn> magic smoke software version xD
50:35 <K> it is in "str_defs.h"
50:36 <hsn> bit v
50:43 <hsn> #define _BV( bit )( 1<<(bit))
51:17 <hsn> The _BV() is a compiler macro defined as #define _BV( bit )( 1<<(bit))in <avr/sfr_defs. h> which was included already indirectly through <avr/io. h>. It stands for Bit Value where you pass it a bit and it givesyou the byte value with that bit set.
51:28 <Ysjoelfir> aaaaaah, i see
51:47 <K> if you insist of using functions for port bit twiddling, i'd suggest you try your best to inline them
51:50 <K> are you using gcc?
51:55 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, a function version with safety checks
52:06 <hsn> would be
52:17 <K> it is not a function, it is a macro
52:32 <K> it is totaly not safe, if you feed it crap, it will blow up
53:41 <hsn> https://pastebin.com/4fRVdpV8
54:09 <K> nein.
54:27 <K> PORTD is a global pointer
54:49 <hsn> yeah ?
55:04 <K> if you use it as a call parameter, it gets dereferenced to the value currently in the memory location the pointer points to
55:11 <hsn> ah
55:30 <K> if you must use it as a call parameter, use &PORTD
55:37 <K> i think
55:44 <K> yes
55:47 <hsn> if (&setPort == PORTD){
55:50 <hsn> ?
55:56 <K> no
56:10 <K> setBit(&PORTD, 3)
56:26 <hsn> yess
56:33 <Ysjoelfir> [11:51:41] <K> are you using gcc? <-- Atmel Studio, so yes, I think they use gcc
56:51 <K> and for claration: int setBit(uint8_t *setPort, uint8_t setPin)
57:21 <K> darn clarations :|
58:00 <K> you can force gcc to inline functions
58:59 <hsn> K, https://pastebin.com/i7iifKh2
00:09 <K> inline bool setBit(uint8_t *port, uint8_t pin)
00:24 <K> somth like that ye
00:28 <Ysjoelfir> I thought gcc can't do bool?
00:30 <hsn> "they" say its not good idea to do compiler specific programming .. somewhere there should be #include < compiler.h> .. and user should use the fucntions there that are supporting different compilers
00:53 <K> umm, i'm using avrs headers and bool is present there
01:06 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, somewhere .. in that #compiler.h its defined probably with #define bool or typedef or somthing
01:29 <K> bool is defined in stdbool.h
01:48 <K> (which is from avr)
02:21 <K> hsn, why do you want pin to be int?
02:31 <K> that is signed 16 bits
02:35 <hsn> K, i dont want anything .. i just copy paste :D
02:38 <K> oh.
02:39 <Ysjoelfir> One question regarding that specificality: I always read "noooooo, you can't do such programming that only works on this specific software, bla bla bla".... 1) why? Worked for me everytime. 2) I found sooooooo many codes that were programmed with a specific software and wouldn't compile on an other one. why should I do different? If I write into the header which compiler/IDE I used in which version that should be no issue at all, should it?
03:10 <K> gcc has been around forever and is not going away anytime soon
03:21 <Ysjoelfir> thats a potential point 3), yes
04:16 <K> using stuff from mcu manufacturers sdk is totaly fine in my book
04:26 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, i think**** .. the key idea is to write portable code as much as possible
04:40 <K> portable is relative
04:50 <K> portable for what?
05:31 <hsn> well if its user application .. u choose to change mcu to different one in same family .. u shouldnt change lots of code .. because of peripheral stuff ..
05:52 <hsn> if u decided for some reason to use different compiler for some reason same applies
06:26 <K> haven't run in sitation when i have to change compilers
06:53 <hsn> i think some compilers might not be acceptable in some safety critical standards
07:03 <K> this is more qustion about how you split up your code wrt to hardware access and actual business logic
07:20 <hsn> iec 61508 ^
07:37 <hsn> probably SIL level 4 or somthing
07:49 <K> that is a valid point, but don't you know compiler requirements before?
08:12 <hsn> K, yes it should be .. for me .. no .. lol
08:22 <hsn> im "employed" by jerks
08:33 <hsn> i dont know anything.. they dont know anything ..
08:35 <Ysjoelfir> also, if you use a different mcu from the same manufacturer you should be able to use most of the stuff you already used before, and if not its only minor differences. despite that I tend to pack specific stuff like read ADCs and whatnot in a (eg) mega168.h/.c and use those functions. so if I would change the MCU it would be enough to not include mega168.h but instead eg. mega32.h
08:50 <K> my comiserations then, hsn
08:53 <hsn> but im bringing my self as an example ..
09:11 <K> im sure it happens
09:19 <K> but such is life.
09:39 <hsn> thanks .. but ^ im really not expert about it or anything im bringing this "portable" thing from various places i read from
10:54 <hsn> yes Ysjoelfir that would be "portable" in my opinion .. but imagine u wrote functions that only applies to 168 ..
11:14 <Ysjoelfir> then you would have to redesign the whole thing anyways, wouldn't you?
11:50 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, u probably wont .. i think ? imagine its big software and u only need to change one function .. why would u redesign the whole thing ?
12:32 <K> no amount of "portability" will make run hardware facing avr 8-bit code run on stm 32-bit mcus
12:37 <Ysjoelfir> If that other MCU provides me with the same functionality but behind other registers that would be fine by just changing the included file, as I would have the same function name in that one as well
13:09 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, FreeRTOS is good example .. it has "Portable.h" and they change it when they add new support to different arch or mcus
13:09 <K> yes, that is what i meant by "depends on how you split up your code"
15:58 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, #ifdef AVR avr_adc_init(); #else stm_adc_init(); #endif is portable :D
16:25 <K> to an extent it is
16:35 <Ampera> hhhhh
16:36 <hsn> yes ^ to an extent ..
16:51 <hsn> EEVBlog slap Ampera
16:56 <hsn> eevblog version
17:04 <hsn> eevblog about and version
17:07 <hsn> eevblog about
17:10 <hsn> wtf
17:11 <K> but then when you need to squeeze absolute performance from each mcu, it gets complicated
17:17 <Ampera> eevblog Debug and Version
17:18 <EEVBlog> EEVBot Version 2.21-BETA, uptime: 418832 seconds.
17:27 <hsn> eevblog Debug and Version
17:32 <Ampera> eevblog about
17:32 <EEVBlog> EEVBot, programmed by Ampera. Version 2.21-BETA
17:35 <hsn> eevblog Debug
17:39 <hsn> eevblog about
17:39 <EEVBlog> EEVBot, programmed by Ampera. Version 2.21-BETA
17:39 <Ampera> I think it just hates you
17:51 <hsn> EEVBlog hsn
17:59 <hsn> eevblog rename to eevidiot
18:12 <hsn> it does
18:19 <Ysjoelfir> who needs squeezed performance anyway, K? :d
18:29 <hsn> i made it do alot of system calls to "log.txt"
18:31 <hsn> :P
18:37 <K> weirdos do
18:46 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, someone is crazy enough to call every MIPS lo
18:47 <hsn> lol
18:59 <hsn> count **
19:17 * Ysjoelfir just tends to buy the biggest/fastest MCU that is reasonably priced
19:47 <hsn> buy T3sl4's mcu .. based on risc-v
20:13 * Ysjoelfir corrects: Ysjoelfir just tends to buy the biggest/fastest AVR that is reasonably priced
20:14 <K> reasonably is relative
20:20 <Ysjoelfir> indeed
20:27 <hsn> i think stm32 is very famous in the industry ..
21:13 <Ysjoelfir> I have a whole bunch of Mega168 because they were very cheap a while back and work in many applications. I don't care if I only use 1 ADC and like 5 GPIOs... a attiny with exactly that is only like 20 cents cheaper
22:34 <hsn> i think .. price doesnt matter for qty of <2000/year .. alot .. if u allready familier with coding them ... ?
23:04 <hsn> well ^^ with small price difference
24:06 <Ysjoelfir> exactly that
24:20 <hsn> i mean if i know im gonna sell 2000 annually .. for 5 years .. and going to stm32 would save me 0.5$ per chip ..
24:35 <hsn> 2500$ doesnt worth relearning the chip ... i guess
25:12 <Ysjoelfir> exactly that is what I meant, yes. you have to take the time into account
25:34 <hsn> but there is also another point ..
25:37 <Ysjoelfir> if you happen to need another one for whatever reason you might consider redesigning older projects to that more suitable chip, but meh
26:03 <hsn> would that be involved in different projects in the future .. would the learning of stm32 help to save again next time i build another project ?
27:52 <Ysjoelfir> thats always the question. I personally wouldn't bother until I reached the next project. actually I am in that situation atm - I use the AVR for this older, small project, but want/need atmel SAM for the next bigger one. Maybe the next time I do a smaller project I might consider a SAM besides the AVR, maybe there is a cheaper SAM, who knows
44:13 <hsn> The question is
44:20 <hsn> Is sam considered modern
44:47 <Ysjoelfir> its an ARM core, so... I suppose yes?
45:43 <hsn> Some are more than 10 years old ?
46:14 <hsn> So is there learning experience from that .. that is applied to new mcu designs ?
47:13 <Ysjoelfir> Well, I think the learning experience would be provided by general programming, not by programming a specific MCU
49:36 <hsn> I gave task to my fellow
49:36 <hsn> doing custom bootloader for the toilet ..
50:46 <Ysjoelfir> a toilet with a bootloader.... :D
51:13 <hsn> Fun stuff .. he enjoyed it and came yesterday with new idea of splitting the bootloader to 2 programs .. lol
51:26 <Ysjoelfir> well, if he enjoys it, why not :D
51:42 <Ysjoelfir> "please reboot the toilet, updates are pending"
52:08 <hsn> Yeah but why split the bootloader to 2 softwares .. its small already xD
52:25 <Ysjoelfir> I dunno? ask him? :D
52:33 <hsn> He wanted to do "update bootloader it self"
53:11 <hsn> So upgradable bootloader .. meh i think its overkill .. he just want to do for joy lol
53:32 <K> makes sense in some scenarios
53:41 <K> it is like upgrading bios
53:52 <K> how often do you do it?
54:01 <K> for critical stuff
11:09 <Ysjoelfir> Is a toilet critical?
11:16 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Dave Williams: One of the founders, Martin Eberhard also produces some excellent EPROM programmers & documentation for ancient devices such as the 1702, 2708, 2532, etc. I'm running his MEMON-80 monitor program on my Altair & IMSAI 😀 https://t.co/IvoC6LU6RD
11:21 <K> sometimes it is.
11:32 <Ysjoelfir> (According to german train service: No, as those are nearly ALWAYS closed due to lack of maintenance)
11:43 <Ysjoelfir> even on long distance trains
16:42 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4T5NEiyK5g That is such a nice thing xD
16:53 <Ysjoelfir> You should grab a translation.
26:02 <hsn> the thing is that .. he is just afraid to find critical bug in bootloader when the product is released .. and wants to fix that remotly .. no access to controller after installation
27:18 <hsn> it just doesnt really fix the issue more than "dual bank" method
29:01 <hsn> i think its not important to do that .. u can always "write another firmware" that replaces your bootloader to new one instead of splitting your bootloader to 2 versions ..
29:37 <hsn> K, i dont think it would be "often" .. the bootloader he wrote should be robust enough in my opinion ..
30:15 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, thats lots of hair
30:26 <hsn> in the song
31:45 <hsn> https://youtu.be/aySAg50S1E8 How to Do DDR Memory Bit & Byte Swapping - DDR2, DDR3, DDR4, ....
35:37 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, ever heared of "made in bahrain toilet" ? they never go into mainttenance .. :P
35:52 <Ysjoelfir> xD they suck you through the hose no matter what!
36:01 <hsn> because they never get released .. only in lab project lol
36:07 <Ysjoelfir> lol
37:22 <hsn> i want to build a bluetooth class A speaker .. small one .. just to teach my self analog stuff ..
37:38 <Ysjoelfir> thats a nice project
37:43 <hsn> but then .. i want to hook it up into line 220vac .. i want to build smps for it ..
37:50 <Ysjoelfir> look at the symasym, I built that once, its cute
37:54 <hsn> but i suck at everything .. so .. do u think i can do it ?
38:15 <hsn> https://www.lf-pro.net/mbittner/Sym5_Webpage/symasym5_3.html ?
38:17 <Ysjoelfir> start with the amp at first, after that go to the SMPS :)
38:46 <Ysjoelfir> exactly
38:49 <hsn> so powert it from lab psu ?
39:02 <Ysjoelfir> or a wall wart if you want, or a premade PSU. or just a linear one
40:14 <hsn> can i build this without looking at it .. like really design it .. with knowledge ..
40:22 <K> bootloader should be dumb as a rock
40:37 <K> less code, less potential for bugs
41:55 <hsn> K, agreed .. in fact the bootloader we have currently is just what arduinos have (or SAM default bootlaoder) + 2 changes
42:52 <hsn> one is crc check to the application .. before jumping to it ..
43:51 <hsn> another its communicating thro rs485 which is basically just uart but with extra pin as its half duplex
44:27 <K> is fine in my mind
44:35 <hsn> the bossa project is nice .. but
44:57 <hsn> i faced this with it: https://github.com/shumatech/BOSSA/issues/115
45:07 <K> you do not read back written flash to verify?
45:28 <hsn> K, ^ it wont work if u lost power in middle of upgrading
45:59 Join: Andre ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
46:21 <K> true
46:22 <hsn> we do .. but this crc is for "lost power" events
46:48 <hsn> i faced it when i used bossa once i lost power .. and then its crash .. all the time
46:54 <K> so bootloader crcs all the flash and compares to known good value
47:13 <hsn> yeah .. we did "edit" the vector table
47:39 <hsn> so we did extend the vector table to + 8 bytes .. (length + crc) ..
49:24 <hsn> K, https://snipboard.io/cNoQVk.jpg <---- there is also more reserved bytes
50:00 <hsn> becasue i want to port it to different mcu which has larger vector table .. and i dont want to edit anything in bootloader or post build code
51:10 <hsn> there is a python script that edits this "crc + length" after build
54:20 <K> i see
55:40 <hsn> the other controller i think should be upgradable from ethernet ..
56:40 <hsn> so im not sure what to do .. but im thinking to do "save new firmware" in external ram .. reboot to bootloader .. bootloader just reads the dram .. no ethernet socket stuff ..
58:40 <hsn> this is crap: https://snipboard.io/mXh3KY.jpg
59:01 <hsn> why would anyone mine with normal pc ? :D
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