// #eevblog — 2021-02-02
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00:08:41 <electrohead> o/
00:09:02 <rust_collector> hello mr electrohead
00:09:15 <electrohead> hey there mr rust_collector
00:09:34 * Ampera hugs electrohead
00:09:38 <Ampera> how are you doing electrohead
00:13:39 <rust_collector> he is very aggressive today.
00:14:39 * electrohead hugs back
00:14:43 <electrohead> trying to wake the hell up
00:14:49 <rust_collector> see?
00:14:49 <Ampera> WAKE THE HELL UP YOU FUCK
00:14:51 * Ampera shakes electrohead
00:14:52 <Ampera> WAKE UP
00:14:54 <Ampera> WAKE UP
00:14:56 * Ampera smacks electrohead
00:14:59 <K> YOU LAZYB BUM!
00:15:02 <Ampera> did that help?
00:15:10 <electrohead> not really, lol
00:15:19 * Ampera suggests caffeine
00:15:46 * K suggests a knock on the door
00:15:47 * rust_collector suggests 13 different kinds of ants
00:16:03 <Ampera> rust_collector, sounds like a competitor to KFC
00:16:06 <Ampera> KFA, kentucky fried ants
00:16:19 <rust_collector> that could be a thing, in a few years
00:16:55 <rust_collector> the new awesome job for students, threading ants on tiny skewers
00:17:00 * electrohead knocks up K
00:17:15 <Ampera> hot
00:17:46 <rust_collector> that will be a pregnancy full of complications
00:18:05 <K> oh no.
00:18:20 <Ampera> nature is nothing if not willing to allow for abominations
00:18:34 <K> i am not ready for this.
00:19:01 <Ampera> that's what she said
00:21:21 <electrohead> lol
00:29:44 <electrohead> I'll pay someone $40 to come shovel my sidewalks
00:29:50 <Ampera> "Password cannot be more than 30 characters" should be punishable by death
00:30:37 <electrohead> a password with random characters, and 30 characters long, isn't good enough for you?
00:30:39 <rust_collector> "please choose a less secure password"
00:30:59 <Ampera> I don't use random character passwords, I use specially formatted passphrases
00:31:07 <Ampera> with special characters to increase entropy requirements
00:31:42 <Ampera> This allows me to memorize hundred character passwords if I should so wish
00:32:35 <rust_collector> usually the first 2 chapters of his favourite book, just with the main characters name changed to the site name, then every 5th word reversed, and moved 2 words to the left
00:42:46 Join: JoePublic ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:44:13 <JoePublic> hi guys. are there any good books or internet resources you guys could recommend that are dealing with ESD protection on PCB level ?
00:48:52 Join: TheDude ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:00:21 <hsn> hello JoePublic
01:01:28 <rust_collector> hi mr single s
01:02:00 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:03:15 <JoePublic> howdy
01:03:36 * Ampera hugs hsn, hugs rust_collector
01:03:57 <hsn> hi rust_collector hi Ampera
01:03:59 <hsn> i love u all
01:04:12 <Ampera> ew
01:04:13 <Ampera> gay
01:04:16 * hsn pull JoePublic to Ampera hugs
01:04:28 <hsn> Ampera, love as like not as romantic love :P
01:04:37 <hsn> does make no sense ?
01:04:58 * rust_collector do not have strong feelings against being hugged by Ampera
01:05:14 <hsn> i unfortunatelly was negative in the last covid test
01:05:19 <hsn> so today is fcking work :(
01:05:23 <rust_collector> NOOOOO!
01:05:32 <rust_collector> go take a new test?
01:05:38 <hsn> i did twice allready
01:05:46 * Ampera sneezes down hsn's windpipe
01:06:05 <hsn> windpipe
01:06:07 <hsn> hrm
01:06:19 <rust_collector> your air hole
01:06:21 <Ampera> gullet
01:06:26 <hsn> nose
01:10:05 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
01:22:37 <electrohead> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LWvq9SVetc
01:24:18 <rust_collector> wwe
01:24:23 <rust_collector> urr
01:24:28 <rust_collector> gmbpktt
01:24:37 <rust_collector> I do not really like oreos
01:24:53 <electrohead> not no more, huh? lol
01:25:19 <rust_collector> i think they taste sort of burnt
01:27:10 <Ysjoelfir> omg rusty
01:27:19 <Ysjoelfir> finally someone who feels the same. I hate those things xD
01:27:48 <rust_collector> talking about coriander drinks.
01:28:34 <rust_collector> oh well, they are almost the only kind of cookie-like things I will not eat
01:29:42 <rust_collector> hmm, does the wiff like them?
01:30:07 <Ysjoelfir> I dunno, ask her?^^
01:30:20 <Ysjoelfir> coriander drinks? :X sounds... not nice. except from that thai tea drink, thats nice
01:51:03 Quit: JoePublic ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
01:55:56 <rust_collector> think of the mountain
01:56:00 <rust_collector> or the tiger
01:57:32 <rust_collector> some times, youtube sends me to some... places
01:57:44 <Ysjoelfir> I am hiiiiiiiiiiigh on the mountaaaaaain
02:00:27 <hsn> i dont know why im sharing this
02:00:35 <hsn> but i love this capacitor series https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/samsung-electro-mechanics/CL10B104KB8NNNC/3886658
02:01:38 <hsn> probably because there is nice graphs here http://product.samsungsem.com/mlcc/CL10C070DB8NNN.do
02:04:37 <Ysjoelfir> I love some caps from nichicon. they are yellow-green-ish
02:04:50 <rust_collector> https://ibb.co/z2f0Tzg
02:05:12 <rust_collector> I like those, because they have a nice color
02:06:59 <hsn> looks great for smps :P
02:07:18 <K> simps
02:07:24 <hsn> what is clothe rope hanger doing there
02:07:36 <rust_collector> it is there for scale
02:07:52 <hsn> not hanger
02:07:54 <hsn> erm
02:07:56 <hsn> idk name
02:08:16 <rust_collector> it is clamping a wire to the terminal of an ammeter
02:08:20 <hsn> clamper
02:08:46 <K> peg
02:08:46 * hsn clamps rust_collector to roof
02:08:49 <K> no?
02:09:00 <hsn> ok time out .. no salary so i leave early today ..
02:09:01 <rust_collector> close enough
02:09:08 <rust_collector> YAAY!
02:09:15 <hsn> 18.00 i should
02:09:18 <rust_collector> yes
02:09:22 <rust_collector> fuck off
02:09:24 <hsn> 9 minutes free work allready
02:09:27 <hsn> thanks bye
02:09:32 <rust_collector> have fun
02:09:37 <K> beware of sand!
02:09:47 <hsn> yes
02:09:50 <Ysjoelfir> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x8ZN3UC2hgCP6KFrHO4fAyB7ZiBE9mzH/view?usp=sharing
02:09:54 <Ysjoelfir> those are the caps I love
02:09:58 <hsn> dans is danger
02:10:16 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, hah
02:10:21 <hsn> golden stuff
02:11:06 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, despite the shape .. quality wise these are not bad right : https://www.digikey.com.mx/en/products/detail/panasonic-electronic-components/EEE-TK1H331AQ/1975623
02:11:13 <rust_collector> golden shrink wrap adds 300% value
02:12:00 <hsn> golden wrap ?
02:12:15 <hsn> ah value = price ?
02:12:31 <hsn> the only wrap im thinking off rn is the chicken wrap
02:12:34 <hsn> cya
02:14:49 <rust_collector> hmm, so, I have a cup of hot water, with some coriander. this will be interesting. it does smell pretty much like regular tea
02:15:55 <rust_collector> well, it is pretty damn hot, so now I don't taste it at all.
02:17:45 <Ysjoelfir> lol^^
02:19:01 <rust_collector> it gives me a slightly oily feeling, with a tiny hint of garlic powder
02:20:17 <rust_collector> In my opinion, this should be much worse
02:20:25 Join: clarkos ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:20:25 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Changing hosts
02:22:23 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) EOF from client
02:24:06 <Ysjoelfir> that doesn't sound that bad actually
02:24:25 Join: clarkos ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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02:24:46 * Ysjoelfir gets his pointy stick and aproaches clarkos router
02:25:00 <rust_collector> my taste is a bit weird these days, but, yes, it is not as horrible as I thought
02:30:12 <rust_collector> oh crap. this is some kind of cure everything drink, and it will make your weight drop by 166 % and cure all illness
02:31:22 <rust_collector> it seems to be a thing in india
02:33:06 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:33:25 <rust_collector> drink 3 large cups of this, before every meal, and you will lose weight.... yes probably
02:34:16 <Ysjoelfir> seriously?^^ why would it?
02:34:48 <rust_collector> because you eat less, if you have 3 large cups of hot water in your stomach?
02:35:15 <rust_collector> just guessing
02:36:01 <Ysjoelfir> Probably
02:47:57 <K> or you get a huge belly for it all to fit in
02:48:30 <rust_collector> well, that is not something we have to worry about.
02:49:42 <rust_collector> i think, if you have a pint glass of warm water, then add 7 tablespoons of salt, and have that before each meal, you will start to skip meals
02:56:21 <K> that might be true
02:57:05 <rust_collector> well, yes, I am after all the health and non-diet guru
03:00:58 <K> we are so lucky.
03:01:08 <rust_collector> yes, you are
03:03:47 <hsn> What
03:04:05 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Connection closed
03:19:17 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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03:22:02 <rust_collector> kommando peste noire.net has left
03:26:03 <rust_collector> ok, have fun.
03:26:11 <K> okay
04:08:31 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
04:52:29 <hsn> https://www.instagram.com/p/CKg_3NKAxfj/?igshid=1ges5bn467hzx
05:01:48 <Ysjoelfir> lol
05:02:00 <Ysjoelfir> thats creative
05:32:10 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:37:08 <Halcyon> Morning all
05:37:18 <Watcher> evening
05:37:27 * Ampera sneezes into Halcyon's mouth
05:37:29 <Ampera> er, I mean
05:37:30 <Ampera> hi
05:37:32 <steve30> hi
05:37:33 <Halcyon> Hahah
05:37:39 <Halcyon> Hey steve30
05:37:44 <Ampera> Halcyon, you up for a call?
05:37:58 <Halcyon> Yeh I'm still getting ready, I'll call you when I get in the car
05:38:18 <Ampera> hopefully signal gives me the damn notification :P
05:38:41 <Halcyon> You still using DND mode?
05:38:57 <Ampera> no
05:39:04 <Ampera> I don't have it on during the day anyways
05:39:07 <Halcyon> Then why aren't you getting notifications?
05:39:12 <Ampera> signal just straight up doesn't ring my phone
05:39:17 <Ampera> cause it's made by gibbons
05:39:18 <Halcyon> Very odd
05:52:31 <Halcyon> I'll just go to the bathroom then put my shoes on, I'll call you after that
06:21:24 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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07:48:59 <Ysjoelfir> mornings mr hul
08:06:47 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
08:21:38 * steve30 meows at Ysjoelfir
08:21:46 <Ysjoelfir> mornings steve
08:58:12 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: I hope the https://t.co/1GgmpTSq7H server has a lot of capacity, it's about to get flooded. https://t.co/Z88SN080fQ :Which was quoting: SpaceX: Announcing the first commercial astronaut mission to orbit Earth aboard Dragon → https://t.co/MbESvnakAD https://t.co/ukLsjFfRjk
09:02:23 <MrMobodies> Hello
09:02:23 <EEVBlog> Hello there, MrMobodies!
09:02:35 <steve30> hi
09:03:00 <MrMobodies> unfortunately the switch in the coffee maker is faulty
09:03:11 <MrMobodies> I am still trying to find the other one
09:03:25 <MrMobodies> the switch looks non standard
09:03:42 <MrMobodies> it turns on when it grinds or if the knob is in the middle of off/on
09:04:01 <MrMobodies> I took it out and find the contacts pull away when set to on
09:04:08 <MrMobodies> and it is pitted back
09:04:22 <MrMobodies> I took it apart and lost a coil
09:06:08 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/J5KDNAM.jpg
09:06:31 <MrMobodies> it turns on and works but I am not happy with that
09:06:44 <MrMobodies> it looks like it previously did some arcing on the contacts
09:08:29 <MrMobodies> There was some video on a link to facebook. It is not often I go there but I got Facebook looking a lot better.
09:08:30 <MrMobodies> https://pastebin.com/aH3DuD0f
09:09:05 <MrMobodies> massive big play buttons over the icons and hover and it darkens so I can't see it, brilliant idea
09:10:38 * steve30 suggests not using facebook at all
09:10:49 <Ysjoelfir> I agree with the steve
09:10:56 <MrMobodies> I can't find anything on part number on that timer/switch thing DT-23B 56 210
09:11:10 <MrMobodies> well it was on some links from google
09:11:23 <MrMobodies> turn out to be clickbait rubbish anyway
09:11:31 <MrMobodies> maybe I wasted my time finding those elements
09:12:14 <MrMobodies> joke: it looked better before when it looked horrible to match the contents, trying to polish a turd
09:13:45 <MrMobodies> oh that was right last Christmas when I wanted to join the local community to see about the exhuast car crime there were videos being suggested
09:13:50 <MrMobodies> that I couldn't stop
09:14:00 <MrMobodies> and I felt sick when one of them played
09:15:12 <MrMobodies> someone having their time of the month and thought it was appropriate to film it and pretending they were seriously hurt
09:15:59 <MrMobodies> but I didn't sign in this time I don't want to experience something like that again
09:24:27 <MrMobodies> just noticed another video from Thunderf00t
09:24:31 <MrMobodies> How the internet makes stupidity thrive!
09:25:20 <MrMobodies> but then I use to see it all around me before those days
09:25:45 <steve30> Flickr is unreliable today
10:09:58 Join: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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10:33:58 <rust_collector> moooorning
10:34:42 <rust_collector> Ysjoelfir, we have to talk about that scoooooope, i think
10:36:06 <rust_collector> I feel a weakness when I look at it
10:58:54 <Ysjoelfir> lol^^ ok, lets do that tomorrow, I'll go to bed now ;) (didn't notice before that you wrote, sry)
10:59:11 <rust_collector> boohoo. ok, good night
11:02:15 <Ysjoelfir> gn8 :)
11:51:07 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Rate to see gutted pcs in the dumpster room https://t.co/9iGqmDE3dX
12:24:38 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Hey @PopSci Rememember when I did a video about your promotion of a ridiculous impractical idea called Wateseer, and you had to embarrassingly apologise? https://t.co/p45ljuX6yl Well, you are doing it again: https://t.co/w2lr7iPCQ5 :Which was quoting: Popular Science: Xiaomi’s long-range wireless charger shows a glimpse of a cord-free future https://t.co/BFIvF4iyb0 https://t.co/vKVoz0IPU2
12:39:40 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:54:08 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: We're gonna need a log chart #silversqueeze https://t.co/dAXlnxBFBC
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15:03:33 <MrMobodies> Hello
15:03:33 <EEVBlog> Hello there, MrMobodies!
15:04:06 <MrMobodies> I just finished the switch. I didn't get it looking as nice as I wanted the appearance looks botched.
15:04:07 <MrMobodies> https://imgur.com/a/prD8pjU
15:05:18 <MrMobodies> Rather than drill a hole into the existing DC jack I melted it using a soldering iron so I can put the more sturdier one in there.
15:33:55 <steve30> i've somewhat sussed out an electronic fault. A series pass transistor in a regulator seems to be the issue, but oddly, the transistor seems to be open circuit.
15:36:55 <MrMobodies> so the transistor is faulty?
15:37:59 <steve30> yes, although the fault seems more indicative of a shorted transistor
15:42:10 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
15:46:27 <T3sl4> the fault could've failed shorted then blown open
15:52:36 <hsn> https://www.instagram.com/p/CKvsVeQpSL7/?igshid=15sr92t0x7m5v
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16:20:34 <ed_kloonk> anyone home?
16:21:37 Quit: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
16:25:02 * steve30 wonders whether to go for a walk in the snow
16:51:07 <steve30> nah, i'll stay here where its nice and warm
16:51:17 * steve30 curls up on T3sl4's lap
16:51:48 * T3sl4 taps the "mask or vaccine required" sign over his lap
17:01:38 * steve30 claws at the sign
17:09:23 Join: MeGuesta ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:12:46 Topic Is: Official IRC channel of the EEVblog - www.eevblog.tv
17:12:46 Set By: (Halcyon) on: Fri Jan 24 20:18:27 2020
17:24:30 <MrMobodies> well I am pleased, that switch is running a lot more cooler and I can touch the heatsinks where it is warm
17:25:32 <MrMobodies> each chip is about 47c reading cover 25c and the casing instead of like 70c
17:26:05 <MrMobodies> but it still seems hot for what it is
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18:29:32 <Ysjoelfir> mornings
18:30:52 <T3sl4> evenin
18:30:59 <T3sl4> oh wait, it's morning now too
18:31:14 <Ysjoelfir> How is it over there, on the other side of the big pond?
18:37:58 <T3sl4> cold
18:40:34 <Ysjoelfir> nice! Gimme some!
18:41:17 <T3sl4> some darkness too, i guess
18:41:40 <Ysjoelfir> If you have some to spare I wouldn't mind about some of that as well, yes
18:44:52 * T3sl4 posts a nice big box of Lucas brand Darkness to Ysjoelfir
18:45:46 <Ysjoelfir> Wouldn't that now be Disney® brand darkness?
18:50:39 <T3sl4> shit, they own everything now, don't they
18:50:49 <Ysjoelfir> pretty much, yes
18:51:36 <T3sl4> on the other hand, who better to perfect the dark arts than them
18:52:08 <Ysjoelfir> That is very true indeed. Though I would love to have a new, classic Lucas Arts adventure. THAT would be so nice..
18:54:56 <T3sl4> there's been a few hmm, what's the recent best classic-adventure game though, i don't remember
18:55:12 <Ysjoelfir> The Daedalic ones are pretty good imho
19:01:49 <Halcyon> Evening lal
19:01:50 <Halcyon> all
19:02:06 * Halcyon wet willies T3sl4
19:02:16 <Halcyon> (But not in the way he thinks ;-)
19:02:17 * T3sl4 dries Halcyon's willy
19:02:24 * Ysjoelfir lalls at Halcyon
19:02:25 <Halcyon> Oh it was how you thought :P
19:02:30 * Ampera hurts Halcyon
19:02:35 <Halcyon> Again
19:02:38 * Halcyon hugs Ampera
19:02:43 <Halcyon> How was your bacon
19:05:19 * Ysjoelfir hands Halcyon a beacon
19:06:24 <T3sl4> "bacon" with a jamaican accent sounds like "beercan" with an aussie accent
19:06:32 <Ysjoelfir> lol
19:07:47 <Ysjoelfir> Today I finally managed to remember to fix an annoying windows 10 quirk by disabling the onboard NIC. >_>
19:08:09 <Halcyon> What was the quirk?
19:12:29 <Ysjoelfir> I have 2 NICs, the onboard 1Gbe and a PCI-e 10Gbe. The 1Gb isn't connected to anything and disabled in the hardware manager. Now when booting windows for some reason it decides to re-enable the onboard NIC, search for DHCP, obviously doesn't find any, and decides that the "secondary" NIC "obviously" can't have any connection as well, so it just assigns the windows internal IPs for firect device to device connection -> no network connection.
19:12:29 <Ysjoelfir> can be fixed by disabling and re-enabling the NIC of course, but doing that for every boot is annoying as hell
19:13:08 <Halcyon> Why would it try to look for an IP on a port that has no link?
19:13:38 <Ysjoelfir> Ask Microsoft, how should I know? it seems pretty obvious that that is a stupid idea?
19:16:29 <Halcyon> I'll just add it to the long list of stupid things Windows 10 does that makes no sense
19:16:46 <Ysjoelfir> after looong searching I found that this is a known but long ignored windows 10 quirk and some people reported that they have this exact problem. I assume win10 has some internal "priorisation" for NICs, and if it notices an open link on the first one it doesn't even try to get any other NIC connected.
19:17:11 <Halcyon> So the key is disabling it in the BIOS ?
19:17:54 <Ysjoelfir> I hope so. tried it three times this morning and it connected everytime. disabling it only in device manager does NOT work though.
19:18:23 <Halcyon> Hooray! Go Windows
19:18:34 <Ysjoelfir> :P
19:18:51 <Halcyon> It's becoming more and more like Apple... fuck what the user thinks
19:20:28 <Ysjoelfir> indeed
19:24:18 <T3sl4> i mean, it's been "fuck microsoft" for *checks calendar*... ever?
19:24:35 <Halcyon> T3sl4, some people have thought that
19:24:44 <Halcyon> Windows did used to be good, stable and secure (on and off)
19:24:56 <Ysjoelfir> I liked windows ME
19:25:05 * T3sl4 snrk
19:25:09 * Halcyon upgrades Ysjoelfir to Vista
19:25:14 <Ysjoelfir> ew!
19:25:40 <Ysjoelfir> I was forced to use "Longhorn" once. No thanks, don't need that ever again
19:28:35 <Halcyon> Which one was that again?
19:28:41 <Ysjoelfir> Vista.
19:28:45 <Halcyon> Oh
19:28:47 <Halcyon> Ew
19:29:25 <Ysjoelfir> I have to admit that I always liked the name, but... meh
19:31:02 <Ysjoelfir> Longhorn I mean. Not Vista
19:31:10 <Halcyon> T3sl4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfVbSMV1mng
19:33:17 * steve30 doesn't use any Windows newer than XP
19:33:43 <steve30> I do have 10 in a VM on my old PC... *cringe*
19:33:51 <T3sl4> whats redders
19:34:06 * Halcyon upgrades steve30 to OS/2 Warp 4
19:34:12 <Halcyon> Red wine I'm guessing T3sl4 ?
19:35:16 <Halcyon> Ysjoelfir, do you watch Mike Jeavons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWq5KUjI1-s
19:35:39 <Halcyon> That first thing he opened with the beer looks suspiciously Aldi-like with the long barcode
19:37:10 <Ysjoelfir> nope, never seen the guy. but I'll look into it :D
19:37:40 <Halcyon> I personally like his "Infomercialism" videos where he "tests" As Seen on TV products
19:37:56 <Halcyon> And his "Week on" videos where he eats nothing but one type of food
19:41:29 <Ysjoelfir> sounds like something I will enjoy^^ thanks for showing me :)
19:41:42 <Halcyon> Indeed
19:42:06 <Halcyon> I enjoy him and Ashens opening food from other countries
19:44:35 <Halcyon> Those Hitchler candies look nice
19:46:18 <Ysjoelfir> Hitschler is one of the best candy ever
19:46:27 <Ysjoelfir> I love Hitschies from Hitschler
19:46:50 Join: MRiddickW_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:47:19 <Halcyon> Yeh they look like something I would enjoy
19:48:45 <K> hello marmots
19:48:53 <Halcyon> Hello K
19:49:35 Quit: MRiddickW ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
19:52:35 <Halcyon> Are you really meant to peel those sausages Ysjoelfir ?
19:52:54 <Halcyon> Munchner Weibwurst
19:53:16 * steve30 curls up on Halcyon's lap
19:53:20 <Ysjoelfir> yes.
19:53:22 <Ysjoelfir> well
19:53:22 <Halcyon> Hey Steve
19:53:34 <Halcyon> What kind of casing is it that you can't eat?
19:53:43 <Ysjoelfir> actually, the "right" way, according to the bavarians, is to "zutzel" those.
19:54:11 <Halcyon> Yeh he was saying in the video you're meant to "suckle" on them
19:54:18 <Halcyon> But why not eat the casing?
19:54:57 Join: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:55:01 <Halcyon> Howdy Ed
19:55:06 <Ysjoelfir> because the sausage is very soft and "sucking" the meat out of the case is supposed to be a very special experiance. Never did that, I think its hilarious
19:55:10 <ed_kloonk> hey.
19:55:22 <Halcyon> Riiight
19:55:28 <Halcyon> How was your day Ed?
19:55:32 <ed_kloonk> still with the sausage talk, I see..
19:55:38 <Halcyon> Actual sausages
19:55:44 <Halcyon> Talking about German meats
19:56:20 <ed_kloonk> For the past 72hrs I've been fighting with a ISO of linux
19:56:27 <Halcyon> Heh
19:56:41 <Halcyon> What's the issue?
19:56:49 <K> who is winning?
19:57:02 <ed_kloonk> problem was between keyboard and chair.
19:57:11 <Halcyon> Did you write it in the wrong mode?
19:57:36 <ed_kloonk> would not boot in a virtual guest, couldn't find loop image
19:57:58 <K> problematic gasket, yes
19:58:07 <ed_kloonk> build computer is usb2 port and I wasn't waiting for the 3gb file to finish copying
19:58:25 <Halcyon> Ahhh that old chestnut
19:58:31 <ed_kloonk> IKR
19:58:32 <Halcyon> Didn't follow up with the sync command ? :P
19:59:18 <ed_kloonk> i know i know. I just thought it was a sloppy mk command arg
19:59:26 <Halcyon> :P
19:59:52 <Halcyon> Ysjoelfir, we need to trade care packages one day
20:00:00 <Halcyon> I need to try these Hitchies
20:00:12 <Ysjoelfir> I actually thought about getting some for you^^
20:00:19 <Halcyon> Nom :)
20:00:23 <steve30> Pro tip: When multimetering, make sure you have the meter set to the correct range.
20:00:41 <Ysjoelfir> nah steve, measuring voltage in current range is perfectly fine
20:00:55 <Halcyon> :P
20:01:01 <Halcyon> Did you do a bad thing Steve?
20:01:15 <steve30> I was actually checking for Diodes in continuity mode.
20:01:24 <Halcyon> Oh, not so bad then :P
20:01:33 <steve30> This transistor seems to have a base to collector short.
20:01:48 <ed_kloonk> fluke spoiled the party when they prevented magic smoke with 240v on ohms
20:02:19 <Halcyon> Heh
20:03:26 <steve30> I was trying to make adjustments to a Canon XL1 camcorder the other day, and managed to fry its PSU circuit. I think I may have sussed out the PSU issue, but there's a possibility that the fried PSU may have fried other things.
20:03:40 <Halcyon> Sizzle sizzle
20:04:20 <Ysjoelfir> damn I'm tired. I think I'll take a short nap. brb
20:04:23 <Halcyon> I remember as a kid letting the magic smoke out of my dads old analog meter. It stunk of peanuts
20:04:51 <ed_kloonk> I used to have a new fluke every other year.
20:05:48 <steve30> I should put my AVOMeter back together one day. I took it apart in 2012 and its been in pieces since.
20:06:10 <Halcyon> Does it measure the ripeness of your avocados?
20:06:40 <steve30> Don't know, I don't eat avocados.
20:06:56 <Halcyon> Then why have an AVO Meter?
20:12:15 <Halcyon> This is my kind of video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8JRcJRa2so
20:13:40 <ed_kloonk> Not for everyone, ovbiously.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLLfV__32E0
20:14:11 <Halcyon> Absolutely not Ed
20:14:19 <Halcyon> ... too much sand
20:14:26 <ed_kloonk> Well I found it interesting
20:14:43 <ed_kloonk> it gets everywhere
20:14:58 <Halcyon> The sand? Or.... ?
20:19:41 <ed_kloonk> hey what's going on the the 5.10 kernel is it LTS or not?
20:19:51 <Halcyon> *shrug*
20:19:56 <Halcyon> Sounds like an Ampera question
20:20:09 <ed_kloonk> they are playing silly buggers
20:22:22 <ed_kloonk> rebooting...
20:22:35 Quit: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
20:38:08 Quit: Some_Person ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
20:38:11 Join: someperson ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:38:41 Nick: someperson is now known as Some_Person
20:38:51 <Halcyon> Howdy Some_Person
20:41:46 * Ampera smacks Halcyon
20:41:51 * Ampera smacks Halcyon again for good measure
20:46:08 <Halcyon> :)
20:46:14 <Halcyon> BRB, Need to pee
20:47:26 <Halcyon> There we go
20:47:45 Join: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:48:21 <Halcyon> Welcome back Ed
20:48:24 <Halcyon> Did you have fun?
20:50:01 <ed_kloonk> I will have fun now the correct modules are loaded
20:53:25 <ed_kloonk> is the ban user per thread plugin installed yet?
20:53:50 <Ampera> wha
20:54:48 <Halcyon> ed_kloonk, not that I know of
20:55:15 <ed_kloonk> I wanna be the first one
20:55:22 <Halcyon> To be banned?
20:55:31 <ed_kloonk> I'm never first!
20:55:33 <Ampera> if you insist
20:55:37 <Ampera> /ban ed_kloonk
20:55:47 <Halcyon> He just got here!
20:55:52 <ed_kloonk> fk
20:55:56 <Ampera> first person to be banned after just getting here!
20:58:57 <ed_kloonk> saw an episode of ST voyager today I never seen before
21:08:29 Quit: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
21:08:47 Join: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:11:40 <ed_kloonk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7ItsdzRZo
21:12:10 <Halcyon> I've seen that. What a moron
21:12:16 <K> ffs
21:13:34 <Halcyon> I guess the easy answer to that would be "Oh but digital/encryption" but how do you handle the key management? It would be an utter nightmare.
21:14:20 <Halcyon> I reckon a combination of traditional analog VHF with a digital side-band channel which can act as an "authenticator" for modern aircraft, but still allow for legacy comms
21:15:10 <Halcyon> So that digital channel would essentially transmit a key, which is managed by "trusted" agents. Similar to how HTTPS works.
21:15:17 <K> signed comms need not to be encrypted obligatory
21:15:24 <Ampera> the thing is you don't ever want that
21:15:26 <Halcyon> No they don't
21:15:28 <K> still need to be digital though
21:15:30 <Ampera> those communication channels are for serious emergencies
21:15:35 <ed_kloonk> the future doesn't have voice comms for jumbos. So yeah, will be keyed
21:15:37 <Ampera> (well normal business, but can be used for emergencies)
21:15:47 <Halcyon> No, don't encrypt the voice comms
21:15:50 <Halcyon> That's not what we're saying
21:15:56 <Ampera> who said encrypt
21:16:01 <Halcyon> Even digital
21:16:06 <Halcyon> Keep the voice analog
21:16:19 <K> well, it is hard to authenticate analog signal
21:16:27 <K> in my mind at least
21:16:29 <Ampera> If you're saying an auth system, how do you expect pilot driving planes to verify people talking
21:16:30 <Halcyon> But have a secondary signal which (if equipped) will validate the analog signal
21:16:54 <Halcyon> So you can essentially "trust" certain transmitters, everyone else, you use caution.
21:16:55 <K> yes, but how
21:17:04 <Ampera> yeah, so pilot need to keep checking if ATC is really ATC for the blue moon some social reject trolls the airspace with a hand radio?
21:17:23 <K> it would be cheaper to just shoot the trolls
21:17:26 <Ampera> ^
21:17:28 <Halcyon> If you get an analog voice without a key, you treat it as a possibility of it being "untrusted".
21:17:40 <Ampera> yes, but how do you determine trusted/untrusted from a user perspective
21:17:46 <Halcyon> If it's analog voice but is accompanied by a key, that verifies that transmission as trusted
21:17:47 <Ampera> while in the air, debugging the rest of your complicated cockpit
21:17:57 <Halcyon> And ID and an LED ?
21:17:59 <Ampera> You still need free and open comms for people who need it
21:18:06 <Halcyon> Yes and they would have that
21:18:22 <Ampera> and what happens when the ATC is untrusted, but is otherwise your only option?
21:18:22 <K> maybe you could extract some fingerprint from noisy/bandwidth limited analog signal
21:18:26 <Ampera> do you just disregard and do what you want?
21:18:37 <Halcyon> Then you revert to normal flight rules
21:18:39 <Ampera> what about towers that aren't equipped with such an auth system
21:18:53 <Halcyon> Again, normal flight rules
21:18:53 <Ampera> so you mean revert to unmanaged airspace rules?
21:19:05 <Halcyon> Well, that would depend on the airspace
21:19:05 <Ampera> what is "normal flight rules"
21:19:08 <K> and then have a some fuzzy keyed signature matching the known good signatures on side channel
21:19:13 <Halcyon> You would check your ERSA for that information
21:19:54 <Halcyon> Military do a similar thing, they have a "known trusted" was of identifying transmissions and objects. Everything else is a "maybe".
21:20:00 <Halcyon> *way
21:20:01 <K> problem is to known that the voice in your earpeace is coming from atc
21:20:11 <Ampera> ^
21:20:16 <Halcyon> Not really
21:20:26 <Halcyon> Right now, how do you trust google.com is Google?
21:20:34 <K> root certs
21:20:35 <Ampera> Easy, because I'm not flying a plane while checking it
21:20:39 <Halcyon> Exactly
21:20:49 <Halcyon> Well, you would be if you're a pilot
21:21:01 <Halcyon> Pilots routinely use electronic maps and interwebs for weather etc...
21:21:31 <Halcyon> So why can't a digital cert be transmitted alongside analog audio to say "Hey, I'm Sydney ATC"
21:21:34 <Ampera> but when I'm performing takeoff/landing maneuvers, the time where ATC communications is the most critical, I wouldn't expect to have the time to check the padlock icon in my airplane's browser
21:21:51 <Halcyon> ATC comms end once clearance is granted
21:21:52 <K> because audio has little bw and is noisy af
21:21:55 <Halcyon> Then the pilot does his thing
21:22:07 <Halcyon> Traffic is minimal during that take-off/landing period
21:22:09 <Ampera> Except in the case of emergency, such as a collision event
21:22:21 <Halcyon> Exceptionally rare occurance
21:22:24 <Ampera> which are real things that have really happened
21:22:30 <Halcyon> In which case the pilot reacts just as they do now
21:22:36 <K> basically transmit on 2 channels?
21:22:45 <K> one simple analog, the other one signed digital
21:22:50 <Halcyon> Yep 2 channels, 1 analog (unchanged from now) and the other signed digital
21:23:02 <Ampera> I think you haven't thought this one through honestly
21:23:04 <Halcyon> Ensures backwards compatibility
21:23:14 <K> and after some time fucking beancounters will scrap analog part
21:23:14 <Halcyon> Well to be honest Ampera, I do have experience in this field
21:23:22 <K> redundacuy reduction! cost savings!
21:23:25 <Ampera> I never knew you were a pilot
21:23:27 <Halcyon> Verifying broadcasts in police is something we had trouble with back in the day
21:23:34 <Ampera> Yes, but you drive cars
21:23:41 <Halcyon> Exactly
21:23:46 <Ampera> Not planes
21:23:53 <K> police planes!
21:24:02 <Halcyon> So instead of replacing an entire worldwide network, supplement it and technology naturally catches up
21:24:18 <Ampera> but you're solving a problem which may not exist with a solution that may make things worse
21:24:25 <Halcyon> But it does exist
21:24:30 <Ampera> and excusing that with experience in a completely unrelated field
21:24:37 <Halcyon> Anyone with a VHF radio can cause trouble
21:24:44 <Halcyon> Secure comms?
21:24:46 <Ampera> Anyone with a kitchen knife can stab someone
21:24:51 <Ampera> anyone with a computer can forge a check
21:25:22 <Halcyon> Again, what would be the problem of simulcasting on two seperate channels. One which is secure and trusted, the other for legacy support?
21:25:39 <Halcyon> Also digital radio is BY FAR clearer and much easily understood.
21:25:40 <Ampera> Because then it doesn't solve the problem you proclaim at all
21:26:03 <K> digital radio is less tolerant to noise, afaik
21:26:03 <Halcyon> Being able to trust the speaker on upgraded equipment? I think it does, I think it does just that
21:26:13 <Ampera> and while digital radio might be better, then you now have split comms, so if you are tuned into your digital radio, you'll be unable to hear people who don't have a digital radio
21:26:24 <Halcyon> Not at all
21:26:37 <Ampera> ???
21:26:38 <Halcyon> There are radios which RX both
21:26:49 <Halcyon> And it depends on how the radio network (if there is a network) is set up
21:26:50 <Ampera> Are there radios that TX both, simultaneously?
21:26:56 <Ampera> and then filter out the radios that also TX both to just one?
21:27:03 <Halcyon> Probably
21:27:10 <Ampera> sounds like a recipe for a mess
21:27:21 <Halcyon> USUALLY it's done with repeater sites which transmit both analog and digital
21:27:27 <Halcyon> But you generally don't have those on airband
21:27:37 <Ampera> but you also need to consider plane to plane comms
21:27:42 <Halcyon> Yep
21:27:47 <Halcyon> And you know what that is?
21:27:53 <Halcyon> Mostly crap about what they had for lunch
21:28:00 <Halcyon> That doesn't need to be encrypted
21:28:01 <Ampera> I'm well aware
21:28:36 <Ampera> but on rare occasion, it can save lives when there is actual information or business to communicate in absence of ATC
21:28:54 <Halcyon> The switch from analog VHF to digital for air traffic won't happen in a matter of years, it'll be a gradual process, but the technology is available today.
21:29:12 <Halcyon> Sometimes, but usually you rely on VFR
21:29:28 <Halcyon> You transmit your position, but you assume no one heard you
21:29:32 <Ampera> Again, it doesn't solve a problem that exists, and makes an agreed system more complicated and more confusing
21:29:44 <Ampera> which is what you do NOT want when you are flying massive machines
21:29:47 <Halcyon> Unauthorised users on a radio network? I think it does
21:30:28 <Ampera> Which might be a problem in police networks, but when the whole point is that /anyone/ can transmit on an air band without prior authorization, that fucks shit up
21:30:39 <Halcyon> If you're ever used a digital/encrypted radio before, you'll realise to the end-user there is no difference apart from clearer audio and additional data that can come along with it.
21:30:48 <Ampera> Halcyon, I'm not a fucking retard
21:30:51 <Ampera> I know what digital radio is
21:30:55 <Halcyon> But, there has to be a global way to trust and revoke keys for it to work
21:31:01 <Ampera> My phone is a digital radio
21:31:10 <Halcyon> There you go
21:31:38 <Ampera> and for my phone, I do want secure and trusted comms, but that's because I'm not going to need to break into someone else's phone conversation and warn them about impending serious danger
21:31:44 <Halcyon> Zero difference to the end-user, analog cellular worked the same way from their perspective
21:32:08 <Ampera> You're comparing technology but not taking into account the requirements of the application
21:32:27 <Ampera> Your experience is with a completely different application with radically different concerns and requirements
21:32:30 <Halcyon> The need for secure ATC comms has been talked about for a long time
21:32:44 <Halcyon> It's just even with complete loss of comms, aircraft can still land safely.
21:32:55 <Ampera> I'm sure it has, few ideas are truly original, but digital comms have been easily available for over 30 years
21:33:02 <Halcyon> Exactly
21:33:05 <Halcyon> This is not a new concept
21:33:08 <Ampera> along with the means to verify client/sender
21:33:15 <Halcyon> Yup
21:33:21 <Ampera> the point being that if it was THAT important, it'd have been adopted by now
21:33:33 <Ampera> but there are serious considerations which make such an adoption risky and potentially superfluous
21:33:42 <Halcyon> The military have done it for a long time. Civilian aviation still don't (for the most part)
21:33:54 <Ampera> Because, and again, the military all fly the same planes
21:34:01 <Halcyon> What is risky about having an additional and more secure channel for communications?
21:34:03 <Ampera> with the same radios, installed by the same people
21:34:36 <Ampera> It makes it harder for unverified users to communicate, and the benefits of verification are minimal when attention can not be easily put into ensuring those instructions
21:34:43 <Halcyon> How does it?
21:34:52 <Halcyon> Unverified users can talk the way they do now
21:34:56 <Halcyon> Nothing changes for them
21:35:07 <Halcyon> They just don't get the added trust information in front of them
21:35:32 <Ampera> so when someone says callsign STOP STOP STOP, who has time to look at their radio to check that whoever just said that was ATC
21:35:47 <Halcyon> They don't
21:35:53 <Halcyon> Why the hell would you?
21:36:09 <Halcyon> It's like asking a cop to make sure their body worn video is recording before they get stabbed.
21:36:30 <Ampera> When someone is being given taxi instructions and dealing with driving their plane, I imagine checking each time I hear new instructions to make sure whoever said that was actually ATC would also not be ideal
21:36:55 <Ampera> The point here is that this added verification is almost completely useless in a practical scenario, since the whole point of voice comms it that you don't need to look at anything
21:37:06 <Halcyon> It can be as simple as an LED or an audio queue
21:37:17 <Halcyon> cue
21:37:29 <Ampera> An LED requires you to look away from what you're doing, and an audio cue can be easily faked
21:37:44 <Halcyon> Humans are great at multitasking, before the first word is even spoken, a person can have trust in their mind
21:37:51 <Ampera> and here's the thing, if ATC says something, and has now stopped talking, and someone else is now talking
21:37:51 <Halcyon> The moment that mic keys up, it's done
21:37:58 <Ampera> how do you even know it was the ATC that said that in the first place
21:38:01 <Ampera> if all you have is an LED
21:38:15 <Halcyon> Same way they do now
21:38:22 <Ampera> and while people can multitask, people also have limited attention spans
21:38:28 <Halcyon> Using their ears to recognise different people
21:39:05 <Ampera> So then if we already have a default means of recognizing different people, why do we need an expensive solution that will start off very exclusive to solve this problem that's apparently been solved by millions of years of evolution
21:39:30 <Halcyon> Because it would identify those who are trusted, but potentially more importantly, untrusted.
21:39:49 <Ampera> but that's not something a pilot can actually check while they are driving/flying the plane
21:39:57 <Halcyon> Absolutely it is
21:39:59 <Ampera> all of the mechanisms you've outlined protect nothing
21:40:20 <Ampera> they have easy methods of circumvention or have serious practical problems that would make them ineffective
21:40:46 <Halcyon> My suggestion is a way to validate those who are "known good"
21:41:02 <Halcyon> Particularly if you have a nutter on the end of a radio, sitting in a carpark
21:41:10 <Ampera> why are you repeating the same things over and over again and somehow expecting me to have a different opinion on it
21:41:15 <Halcyon> You can EASILY filter the reliable source of information
21:41:27 <Halcyon> *shrug*
21:41:32 <Ampera> No you can't, for reasons I've already explained and you have not given me any answer to counter
21:41:38 <Halcyon> I know you're stubborn, not much I can do about that
21:41:53 <Ampera> and you're bordering on T3sl4 levels of arrogance
21:42:00 <Halcyon> But I actually have more experience in this (even in an aviation point of view) than you do
21:42:26 <Halcyon> I spent 2 days flying around in an aircraft with fucked comms during a fire in the early 2000's
21:42:27 <Ampera> I'm sure you do, which makes it all the more baffling that I can come up with serious problems you are unable to provide a solution for in your basic idea
21:42:53 <Halcyon> What's your problem? I have said it won't impact anything for legacy users
21:42:54 <Ampera> Your context is also, again, not civilian, it's definitively police bordering on military
21:42:59 <Halcyon> Where does the problem magically come from?
21:43:08 <Ampera> The problem comes from that this system doesn't do anything for a pilot
21:43:19 <Halcyon> Except validate trusted users?
21:43:22 <Ampera> There is no practical and secure way for the pilot to verify that person
21:43:24 <Halcyon> Is that not important?
21:43:40 <Ampera> It may be, but it's something that eats into an already limited attention span
21:43:54 <Halcyon> Limited? HAH!
21:44:01 <T3sl4> Halcyon, oh is Ampera being bothersome again? :/
21:44:05 <Halcyon> Even in a light fixed-wing, you have all the time in the world
21:44:22 <Ampera> When taxiing? Taking off, landing, etc.
21:44:25 <hsn> time whaaaaat?
21:44:37 <Halcyon> Yep, a lot of that is computer controlled in passenger aircraft
21:44:45 <Ampera> I'm fairly sure there are high stress points in aviation to where you can't just look down at some radio to verify security
21:44:59 <Ampera> Again, I'm aware, but is still closely monitored by the pilots
21:45:10 <Halcyon> Well, don't know about you, but I've had pilots checking their iPads during takeoff/landing
21:45:18 <Halcyon> It's really not that stressful until something bad happens
21:45:26 <Ampera> WHICH IS MY ENTIRE POINT
21:45:45 <Halcyon> Was it
21:45:46 <hsn> Halcyon, i read its ok in todays electronics .. somewhere ...
21:46:04 <Halcyon> hsn: Phones/tablets have been allowed in aircraft for years
21:46:07 <Ampera> When there is a serious need to use radio, which is an event someone would be most likely to fake, I don't believe a pilot would actually have the time to sit there and verify the authenticity of who they're talking to
21:46:16 <hsn> but they still say turn it off .. Halcyon
21:46:19 <Halcyon> Many flights (at least here) have WiFi if not picocells on the planes
21:46:35 <Halcyon> The only reason for that is out of courteousy. Not for safety.
21:46:44 <Ampera> It's a serious concern that I am saying negates the benefit of the added cost and complexity of an authenticated system
21:46:59 <hsn> courteousy ?
21:47:17 <Ampera> especially when, since there are legacy users, there is still no reason to believe a user is malicious when they aren't appropriately authenticated
21:47:18 <Halcyon> Yes, it's more complex. But it doesn't stop anyone from hitting that TX button and shouting emergency instructions down a radio
21:47:33 <Ampera> So, again, what's the point, since that is the problem you're trying to fix
21:47:34 <Halcyon> That is not impeded in the slightest, in fact, it's IMPROVED on a digital system
21:47:56 <Ampera> This has nothing to do with the system being digital, this is concerning authentication
21:48:10 * hsn authenticates Ampera
21:48:21 <Halcyon> If you're going to implement auth, you may as well have a digital voice channel to go with it
21:48:22 <hsn> eevblog kill ur self
21:48:45 <Ampera> You may as well, but that's not essential to this discussion
21:49:18 <Halcyon> If you're going to make a major change to a global communications standard, why not improve multiple things?
21:49:36 <Halcyon> Since it basically comes in the box anyway
21:49:39 <Ampera> Am I speaking a different language?
21:49:47 <Ampera> Seriously, you're acting unusually thick
21:49:55 <Ampera> I'm looking at one thing and you're thinking another
21:49:59 <Ampera> what the hell is going on here
21:50:00 <Halcyon> No, I just don't think you're making the compelling point you think you are.
21:50:07 <K> ya'll need more jesus
21:50:13 <Ampera> I don't think you even understand what I'm saying
21:50:14 <Halcyon> Save me jebus?
21:50:36 <Halcyon> No I don't, because you refuse to see a differing perspective to yours, so you just argue your point.
21:51:03 <Ampera> I'm saying that this conversation is about authentication, there's nothing that digital radio must do with it
21:51:13 <Halcyon> Tell me how, in what way would complementing an existing system would have an adverse impact on the way things work now?
21:51:14 <Ampera> and you're taking that as me saying there should be no digital radio in air comms at all
21:51:32 <Ampera> It adds a significant cost for a system that adds no significant benefit
21:51:41 <Halcyon> You cannot switch from a fully analog to a fully digital system overnight. Not going to happen.
21:51:48 <Halcyon> You need to run both side by side
21:51:52 <Ampera> oh my god
21:51:55 <Ampera> are you fucking with me
21:51:59 <Halcyon> Am I wrong?
21:52:00 <Ampera> no seriously are you trolling me right now
21:52:07 <Ampera> I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT DIGITAL RADIO
21:52:13 <Ampera> NONE OF WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS DIGITAL RADIO AT ALL
21:52:24 <Halcyon> Except the authentication bit... right?
21:52:39 <K> yeeehaaaaawww!!111
21:52:40 <Ampera> Authentication doesn't require a completely digital radio
21:52:47 <Halcyon> Exactly my point
21:52:51 <Halcyon> If you'd care to read up
21:53:01 <Ampera> the problem is I am not TALKING about digital vs analog radio
21:53:08 <Ampera> you are completely ignoring what I am talking about
21:53:19 <Halcyon> So why not complement the existing network, with a digtial auth system for trust purposes?
21:53:22 <Ampera> which is, solely, and without any excess, that authentication in aviation radio is useless
21:53:26 <Halcyon> Why would that be such a terrible idea?
21:53:31 <Ampera> *civilian aviation radio
21:53:36 <Halcyon> Why is it useless?
21:53:41 <Halcyon> You have yet to explain
21:54:05 <Ampera> Because I do not believe in any situation where authentication would be beneficial that a pilot would have the time or care to bother
21:54:26 <Halcyon> Except whether or not he can trust the messages being given to him?
21:54:28 <Ampera> If someone wants to pick up a radio and shout emergency instructions to random planes, under your system, there would be nothing to stop them
21:54:33 <Halcyon> Particularly if those messages conflict
21:55:04 <Halcyon> Correct, the pilot would still HEAR those bullshit messages, but they wouldn't pass authentication
21:55:08 <Ampera> It's a system that could only be beneficial during calm and orderly transactions, to where authentication isn't all that important, as the stakes are just not that high
21:55:15 <Ampera> but how would they know that
21:55:20 <Halcyon> Oh my gawd
21:55:20 <Ampera> in a way that cannot be faked
21:55:24 <Ampera> and in a way that does not require them to look at something
21:55:45 <Halcyon> There is such a thing as peripheral vision. You should try it some time.
21:55:59 <Ampera> Please, put a book in your periphery, and try to read it
21:56:21 <Ampera> Unless you have god tier eyesight, you can only read what is directly in front of you
21:56:29 <Halcyon> The technology exists, today, has done for a long time.
21:56:34 <Halcyon> You ask me how it's possible?
21:56:34 <T3sl4> hah https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/its-the-wombats-strange-intestines-not-its-anus-that-produces-cubed-poo/
21:56:42 <Ampera> I didn't
21:56:44 <Ampera> actually
21:56:44 <Halcyon> Who said anything about reading?
21:56:47 <Ampera> I never asked you how it was possible
21:56:51 <Ampera> I'm well aware it's possible
21:56:59 <Ampera> I know exactly what you are talking about, and exactly how you suggest to implement it
21:57:15 <Halcyon> Sometimes simpler is better
21:57:26 <K> planes for simpletons!
21:57:27 <Ampera> what I am saying is that it would be more time than a pilot has in most critical scenarios to verify anything visually on radio instrumentation
21:57:36 <Halcyon> By all means, accompany the visual indicator with an LCD if you like.
21:57:54 <Halcyon> Because people (generally) can listen and look at the same time
21:58:00 <Halcyon> And make split second decisions
21:58:03 <Ampera> Maybe the only exception I can see is on planes equipped with full glass cockpits, during IFR, there would be easier opportunity to see any authentication indicators
21:58:45 <Ampera> but my point is in an emergency scenario, where authentication is the most important, there is no time to look at your radio
21:58:57 <Halcyon> Who said anything about emergencies?
21:58:59 <Ampera> I did
21:59:10 <Ampera> because I do not see any other situation where this would be all that beneficial
21:59:20 <Halcyon> I already said, when an emergency happens, the pilot reverts to training and flight rules
21:59:26 <Halcyon> Comms is less important at that point
21:59:54 <Ampera> I'm not talking about emergencies internal to a plane, I'm talking about the need to communicate emergency situations to other planes
22:00:06 <Halcyon> Then they do so
22:00:08 <Ampera> There have been multiple scenarios where ATC action has stopped immediate disaster
22:00:08 <Halcyon> As they do now
22:00:15 <Halcyon> Nothing changes
22:00:28 <Ampera> Yes, but the problem is when such a situation occurs, there is no time to check for authentication
22:00:29 <Halcyon> Not one said anything about validating EVERY message
22:00:35 <Halcyon> It's just added information in case of confusion
22:00:35 <Ampera> Then what messages are necessary to validate
22:01:03 <Halcyon> Depends on the emergency
22:01:07 <Ampera> No, in general
22:01:23 <Ampera> Just give me some examples of where a pilot has ample time to verify the sender of a message
22:01:32 <Ampera> AND to where that verification would be beneficial
22:01:42 <Halcyon> 99.5% of the time they are in the cockpit and are seated
22:01:57 <Halcyon> And are receiving critical instructions from ATC
22:02:04 <Ampera> No shit? I thought they were radioing from the bathroom
22:02:04 <Halcyon> (or other aircraft in case of VFR)
22:02:33 <Halcyon> You have quite a lot of time and room up there in a plane to observe and make decisions
22:02:41 <Ampera> Until you don't
22:02:57 <Halcyon> Well, by that stage you are bracing for impact, comms no longer matter
22:03:00 <Ampera> and ultimately I am asking you to give me an example where your idea is beneficial
22:03:03 <Ampera> not a theory, an example
22:03:06 <Ampera> practical situation
22:03:21 <Halcyon> Fake ATC broadcasts, which happen fairly regularly
22:03:27 <Halcyon> You only read about the ones they catch
22:03:33 <Ampera> I disagree, runway collision situation, it's happened before, when an airplane is ordered to STOP
22:03:40 <Halcyon> Yep
22:03:57 <Ampera> That is a situation in which there is no time to verify authentication
22:04:04 <Ampera> but, to where a fake STOP order can be just as dangerous
22:04:05 <Halcyon> Won't help there. If the aircraft doesn't stop or ignore direction, they are sure as hell going to ignore an indicator light
22:04:23 <Ampera> that's not the scenario I am stating
22:04:32 <Ampera> there are situations to where, out of fault of ATC, two planes are on a collision course
22:04:44 <Halcyon> But, if they hear a STOP coming from ATC, by the time they even process the direction, they can see that it's a genuine message
22:04:48 <Halcyon> Quite simple really
22:04:49 <Ampera> Landing and takeoff on a crossed runway, for example
22:04:59 <Ampera> How so?
22:05:15 <Ampera> a STOP needs to be executed immediately
22:05:30 <Halcyon> Do I need to explain light to you?
22:05:46 <Halcyon> Before the word STOP is even uttered, an auth light can be illuminated
22:05:59 <Ampera> look, I'm gonna level with you, this channel has been stressing me out for days
22:06:02 <Halcyon> Easily, quickly, reliably.
22:06:03 <Ampera> I think I'm gonna take a few weeks break
22:06:08 <Halcyon> Alrighty
22:06:13 <Ampera> T3sl4, in particular, just him being there is pissing me off
22:06:24 <Ampera> idk why, but you just are actually making me feel like shit
22:06:25 <Ampera> on a regular basis
22:06:29 <Ampera> goodbye
22:06:33 <Halcyon> Later
22:06:34 Part: Ampera ([email protected]) from #EEVblog (Leaving)
22:06:46 <Halcyon> Someone's in a mood.
22:06:58 <T3sl4> Ampera is a walking mood
22:07:01 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Connection closed
22:07:03 <T3sl4> or perhaps shambling would be more accurate
22:07:12 <ed_kloonk> I missed half of it cos I had to quickly go and make some popcorn
22:07:20 <Halcyon> I mean, I don't think I was being that cryptic?
22:07:30 <Halcyon> Butter popcorn?
22:07:44 <T3sl4> i don't even have a clue what stake he has in... airplane radio comms i guess?
22:07:52 <Halcyon> No idea either
22:08:28 <Halcyon> It's just like political discussions or gun control. He can be quite binary in his thinking.
22:08:50 <Halcyon> Maybe I was like that when I was a teenager? I don't know. But at some point you stop to consider other ideas.
22:09:39 <T3sl4> combine that with his inability to feel anything is good
22:09:53 <Halcyon> I'm sure that doesn't help
22:10:25 <Halcyon> His lack of ability in controlling his own emotions would be hell enough, let alone dealing with everyday life pressures and people.
22:11:00 <ed_kloonk> what exactly is the condition?
22:11:15 <Halcyon> I don't think he has been bothered to actually find out properly.
22:11:15 <Ysjoelfir> mornings
22:11:23 * Ysjoelfir woke up and feels refreshed
22:11:28 <Ysjoelfir> did I miss something?
22:11:30 <ed_kloonk> heh heh
22:11:33 <Halcyon> I think most of it is self-diagnosed. He refuses to put his trust in people.
22:11:35 <T3sl4> wasn't it morning already?
22:11:41 <Halcyon> Ysjoelfir, not really
22:11:52 <Halcyon> Yeh I was going to say, I was talking to you about sausage just before?
22:13:22 <Ysjoelfir> Yes, its already preafternoon T3sl4. But I had to take a nap as I was so damn tired, so now its morning again in my feelings <3
22:13:25 <Halcyon> Without talking shit about him behind his back, but Ampera is one of those stereotypical American people who thinks that his rights matter above the greater good, all government sucks, if you don't agree with him politically then you are wrong and when he is right, he is right.
22:13:31 <Ysjoelfir> Halcyon, yes, we were talking about sausages ^^
22:13:32 <Halcyon> All things I have said to his face.
22:13:34 <T3sl4> \o/ nap
22:14:02 <Ysjoelfir> oh. looks like I DID miss something :D
22:14:18 <Halcyon> Ysjoelfir, it wasn't super exciting, trust me
22:14:22 <T3sl4> a stereotypical authoritarian follower, i would suppose
22:14:26 * Ysjoelfir offers T3sl4 the still warm blanket on his sofa with a purring cat on it
22:14:35 <Ysjoelfir> lol, ok^^ I trust you guys
22:14:40 * T3sl4 meows at Ysjoelfir
22:15:12 <Halcyon> T3sl4, I know I post a lot of crap, but everything this guy says, Ampera ticks all the boxes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMAVvMr7ew
22:15:28 <Halcyon> I'd like to think that most (?) American people aren't like that?
22:16:01 <T3sl4> jezus, what a twink
22:16:09 <Halcyon> That aside... :P
22:16:38 <Ysjoelfir> I hate his name. And he looks like my old neighbor, but with a even more stupid haircut^^
22:16:50 <Halcyon> Oi, my hair looks like that
22:16:53 <Halcyon> >:(
22:17:01 <T3sl4> stupid Halcyon
22:17:04 <Halcyon> :P
22:17:37 <ed_kloonk> what is hair?
22:17:42 <Halcyon> :P
22:17:47 <Ysjoelfir> :P I am in general not a fan of people putting tons of stuff onto their hair to make it stand up. thats just a personal thing^^
22:17:58 <Halcyon> You don't need much
22:18:02 * T3sl4 kloonks ed on his head
22:18:03 <Halcyon> I just do it so it's not floofy
22:19:13 <Ysjoelfir> wouldn't a bit of water and a brush make hair unfloofy enough? :P
22:19:22 <Halcyon> Nope
22:19:31 <Halcyon> Because when the water dries, it's back to floof
22:19:37 <Ysjoelfir> lol
22:20:11 <Halcyon> Anyway, I might pop off to bed myself and read an analog book
22:20:12 <Halcyon> :P
22:20:18 <Ysjoelfir> ok, thats acceptable than, if you don't like the floofyness. Other option: wear a head!
22:20:22 <Ysjoelfir> *hat
22:20:24 <Ysjoelfir> lol
22:20:26 <Halcyon> I hate hats
22:20:36 <Ysjoelfir> oi! I wear a hat all the time!
22:20:37 * T3sl4 hugs Halcyon
22:20:44 <Ysjoelfir> <:(
22:20:48 <Halcyon> That's fine, you do you Ysjoelfir
22:20:53 <Halcyon> I just don't like hats on my head
22:21:00 <Ysjoelfir> :P
22:21:19 <Halcyon> I'm very "loosey goose", I hate even wearing a watch
22:21:25 <Ysjoelfir> ok. you can put glue onto your hair, I can wear hats. sounds like a good deal^^
22:21:31 <Halcyon> As soon as I get home, it's underwear off and into board shorts and a t-shirt
22:21:43 * Ysjoelfir can very good understand that
22:22:08 <Halcyon> In winter, I only put long sleaves on when I absolutely have to
22:22:17 <Halcyon> About 5 degrees is the cutoff point :P
22:22:30 <T3sl4> i just put on a coat
22:22:36 <Halcyon> Bah, layers
22:22:43 <ed_kloonk> cya
22:22:49 <Halcyon> Cya Ed
22:22:57 <Ysjoelfir> I agree with T3sl4's system. except from when I am on my bike, then I need a bit thicker stuff
22:23:00 <Ysjoelfir> cu eddy
22:23:15 <Halcyon> The only time I like thick and heavy is when I'm in bed
22:23:18 <Halcyon> I can't just do a sheet
22:23:25 <T3sl4> lennyface
22:23:32 <Halcyon> ?
22:23:48 <T3sl4> thick and heavy?
22:23:53 <Halcyon> Blankets
22:24:01 <K> that video is a no.
22:24:07 <Halcyon> I like heft when I am trying to sleep
22:24:08 <T3sl4> duh, but that's not what i was implying
22:24:19 <Halcyon> :P
22:24:23 <Halcyon> What is lennyface ?
22:24:32 <K> the smirk(?) is infurriating
22:24:44 <Halcyon> K: That's because you don't find him cute
22:24:47 <Ysjoelfir> that is true, K^^
22:24:48 <Halcyon> Where as I....
22:24:49 <Halcyon> :P
22:25:07 <T3sl4> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
22:25:13 <Halcyon> He has nice skin
22:25:22 <Halcyon> His eyes are boring as fuck though
22:25:33 <K> you wanna make drum set out of him?
22:25:40 <Halcyon> Sure :P
22:25:56 <Ysjoelfir> bwahaha :D
22:26:24 <Halcyon> Although he did do a video where he said most Americans are circumsized
22:26:27 <Halcyon> Not really into that
22:27:15 <Ysjoelfir> oh wow.. if you click a link that says "shows the jobs that best match your talents" on a freelancer community and the results is "Sorry, we couldn't find any jobs matching this search criteria"..... I am not sure what it wants to tell me
22:27:33 <K> that you've failed
22:27:39 <K> sry
22:27:47 <Ysjoelfir> :(
22:27:55 <Halcyon> Maybe you are meant to be an astronaut or something Ysjoelfir ?
22:27:57 <K> that or that page is full of shit
22:28:09 <Ysjoelfir> I think a mix of both your suggestions
22:28:27 <Halcyon> Maybe dumb it down a bit :P
22:28:27 <K> there were 3 suggestions
22:28:31 <Halcyon> You'll get more hits
22:29:30 <T3sl4> i put up a google ad for my website
22:29:34 <Ysjoelfir> There is no way for me to adjust that. its a predefined search that takes into account the information in my profile
22:29:37 <T3sl4> some clicks, but no interest yet
22:29:40 <Halcyon> timswillies.com ?
22:29:42 <Halcyon> Or the other one?
22:29:55 <Ysjoelfir> I just wanted to ask if if already brought revenue
22:29:59 <T3sl4> you can stop thinking about my willie, you wouldn't like it
22:30:00 <Ysjoelfir> when did you air that?
22:30:14 <Halcyon> You're not the boss of me
22:30:45 <Halcyon> Ah crap, I got to be up in 6 hours
22:30:49 <Halcyon> Night all
22:30:53 * T3sl4 points Halcyon to the bed
22:31:43 <T3sl4> Ysjoelfir: i mean, it's got my contact info and some work on it
22:32:38 <T3sl4> i've been told that it's good content, but the problem may be that, i've only ever been told so by other engineers, and engineers aren't mainly what would be looking to hire me?
22:33:00 <Ysjoelfir> Hmm... thats a good point actually, I never thought about it that way
22:33:17 * Ysjoelfir writes that thought down for his redesign of his site.
22:33:55 <T3sl4> the very basic layout, or boringly cold colors perhaps, may not be in my favor either
22:34:49 <T3sl4> or the lack of professional, finished products, which is understandable but perhaps only to an engineer
22:35:26 <Ysjoelfir> Thats what I wanted to change on my site actually. I used a CMS but I hate this modern layout. I have some of my old webdesigns (was in the GFX stuff at age 15), and the general structure of one of those is what I intended to use, but with other colors and a theme fitting to the work I do
22:35:49 <Ysjoelfir> Yeah, true. I can see how that could be a bit offsetting to some HR droids
22:39:49 * T3sl4 buurps
22:40:09 <T3sl4> mm, i made kinda... risotto, though not with the correct rice
22:40:10 <K> do hr droids actually care about your private webpage?
22:40:43 <T3sl4> i wouldn't expect that HR would be searching for my keywords, but managers
22:40:44 <K> isnt it all linkedin / personal connections?
22:41:36 <T3sl4> personal connections? that would require talking to people
22:41:38 <T3sl4> eww
22:43:59 <K> yeah :/
22:45:54 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4, take a look at that design of mine. As I said, I made it some 15 years ago, but I still like the simplistic but professional look of it. I think I'll reuse that, off course remade to fit the topic of electronics. https://drive.google.com/file/d/125xcuVhmGq7-x9UrKnOjfAhS_pSQcExc/view?usp=sharing
22:46:43 <T3sl4> simple one-column, nice gradient background
22:47:06 <T3sl4> i should be able to set a gradient background just with css i think? should try that
22:47:33 <T3sl4> not sure what else i could do with formatting...
22:47:42 <Ysjoelfir> try it :) I have no idea about coding though, so... no idea if thats possible
22:48:40 <T3sl4> css is barely coding :P
22:50:09 <Ysjoelfir> well.... more than I manage to do xD I can tella µIC to do its thing, but working with websites... erm, no. I can barely do some html (better: understand it and repurpose what I have, but...
22:50:11 <Ysjoelfir> )
22:50:58 <T3sl4> shrug
22:51:33 <T3sl4> HTML is, well as the name says, markup, that's easy
22:52:08 <T3sl4> JS is... different from C, but it's not so different
22:52:12 Join: Ysjoelfir_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
22:52:17 <Ysjoelfir_> I am just a noob :P
22:52:20 <Ysjoelfir_> eh
22:52:39 <Ysjoelfir_> damn, disconnected ._.
22:52:56 <T3sl4> did you get my HTML and JS messages?
22:53:25 <T3sl4> or, see them rather
22:53:52 <Ysjoelfir_> -
22:54:05 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) EOF from client
22:54:23 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
22:55:00 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
22:55:02 Nick: Ysjoelfir_ is now known as Ysjoelfir
22:55:43 * T3sl4 hugs Ysjoelfir
22:56:07 <Ysjoelfir> \o/
22:57:37 <T3sl4> but yeah, i'm in the habit of using JS for testing out things, dev tools etc
22:58:05 <Ysjoelfir> I think I'll pay someone to make a template out of the design for me xD
22:59:08 <Ysjoelfir> way less hassle than learning that all by myself for no real reason as I doubt that I'll ever need it again
22:59:26 <T3sl4> oh, was that graphic thing done in PS or whatever, not actually HTML?
22:59:38 <Ysjoelfir> yes. its just a graphic
23:00:41 Quit: ed_kloonk ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
23:21:20 <hsn> holycrap
23:21:30 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, is that whyy u like the golden thing
23:21:39 <Ysjoelfir> hmm?^^
23:21:49 <hsn> The lifetime cannot exceed 15 years due to aging of sealing rubber.
23:22:20 <T3sl4> i thought you aren't allowed to buy sealing rubbers over there hsn
23:22:20 <Ysjoelfir> is that so?
23:22:45 <hsn> T3sl4, r u refering to candoms ?
23:23:01 <hsn> Ysjoelfir, idk i was reading it here: https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf/RDE0000/DME0000COL75.pdf
23:23:28 <T3sl4> aren't they can'tdoms over there?
23:23:43 <K> maybe you can't
23:23:45 <hsn> there are playboys
23:36:19 <Ysjoelfir> So I just received a parcel from Amazon logistics. well, actually two. both are completely soaked and ripped to pieces. mr. postman was complaining that I am a dickhead and that I and my stupidity to not write down my adress correctly is the reason for him being soaked as well. he threw those two parcels to the ground into a puddle and drove away with what felt like 100km/h in the 30km/h zone. best thing: those weren't even for me!
23:37:58 <T3sl4> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:39:21 <K> what do now?
23:41:10 <Ysjoelfir> I dunno? Left them sitting there in the driveway. I don't know that person and the content is either soft and waterproof or already destroyed anyway.
23:44:34 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4 https://www.upwork.com/jobs/converter-design-1000W-305VAC-54V-output-12V-AUX-UART-programmable_~0121937b7fc420d634/
23:44:42 <Ysjoelfir> could be something you would be interested in
23:46:05 <T3sl4> wow, those surge numbers
23:46:33 Join: clarkos ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:46:33 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Changing hosts
23:46:34 Join: clarkos ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:46:51 <Ysjoelfir> thats a bit more than usual, but should be achievable?
23:47:33 <K> something for trains or somth?
23:47:42 <Ysjoelfir> could be
23:48:00 <Ysjoelfir> input voltage range is interesting as well
23:48:03 <T3sl4> just a matter of putting in enough, then testing it
23:48:11 <T3sl4> understandable given the industrial setting
23:48:19 <Ysjoelfir> true
23:48:28 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) EOF from client
23:48:51 <T3sl4> 277VAC is 480 wye to neutral, probably what that comes from
23:49:28 <Ysjoelfir> but 305V? whats that coming from?
23:49:40 <T3sl4> +10%?
23:49:57 <Ysjoelfir> oh
23:50:10 <Ysjoelfir> *coughs*
23:50:22 <Ysjoelfir> its absolutely clear where the 305V comes from!
23:50:39 * T3sl4 nods indubitably
23:51:12 <Ysjoelfir> T3sl4, do you want to CHANGE THE WORLD!?
23:51:30 <Ysjoelfir> (without earning anything)
23:51:39 <Ysjoelfir> if so, this might be for you! https://www.upwork.com/jobs/Team-engineers-for-world-changing-invention_~010fcdd29ce76f5829/
23:51:42 <T3sl4> charge* the world
23:51:48 <Ysjoelfir> :P
23:55:42 <hsn> T3sl4, it means u registered ?
23:56:05 <T3sl4> kinda tempted i guess, but it's still a low ball (the LED supply one)
23:56:19 <hsn> T3sl4, also ,, it requires c++
23:56:21 <hsn> lol ?
23:56:33 <hsn> 45$ negative money ?
23:56:38 <electrohead> o/
23:56:49 <Ysjoelfir> mornings mr. head
23:56:53 * T3sl4 hugs electrohead
23:59:28 <hsn> oui
23:59:44 * T3sl4 ouis on hsn
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