#d&d - 2012-01-01 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2012-01-01

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« 2011-12-31 2012-01-02 »
00:32 <Mekkis> happy new year
01:36 <Mort> happy new year everyone I suppose
03:53 <Ballig> weirdos
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11:33 <Spaceshot_tm2> NO JOO
31:45 Avatar- ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
36:45 <Avatar-> you were an hour late lol
39:41 <Mekkis> nope
39:48 <Mekkis> your reference is just WRONG !
43:49 Spaceshot_tm2 has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
46:02 <Mekkis> Avatar, http://nl.ti4200.info/~mekkis/pfdb_wintest.7z
46:06 <Mekkis> should be there in 2 minutes
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38:31 <Ballig> looks like I've successfully separated network and mainwindow elements
40:33 <Ballig> Mekkis: I don't know if that file will run for Avatar, I know it doesn't run for me. to get it to run you will have to add "win32:LIBS += -static-libgcc" to the project file
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54:05 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
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18:45 <Avatar> I am so unbelievably tired
22:25 <Ballig> haha
22:38 <Ballig> I slept about as much as you, but I didn't go o ut
23:24 <Avatar> ah but you had pathfinder to keep you going !
25:04 <Avatar> man
25:12 <Avatar> I still had a job open in my browser and got a rejection for it before I closed it
25:25 <Ballig> gay
25:30 <Avatar> like cmon guys, are you even looking
25:42 <Ballig> do you use ctrl+tab to change tabs in mirc
25:52 <Avatar> no, I have about 20 channels open
26:03 <Ballig> and you use your mouse?
26:07 <Avatar> yeah
26:09 <Avatar> tiled windows
26:11 <Ballig> that's nuts
26:22 <Avatar> do you tile
26:28 <Ballig> no, I tab
26:35 <Avatar> yeah I don't use fullscreen 
26:43 <Avatar> so I just have to look around
26:45 <Ballig> I have 3 monitors
26:52 <Avatar> I make efficient use of 1
26:58 <Ballig> I make efficient use of 3
27:07 <Avatar> that's worse
27:08 <Avatar> I win
27:11 <Ballig> :(
40:11 <Avatar> started a game of words with friends with this guy at the party
40:15 <Avatar> he is absolutely kicking my ass
40:20 <Avatar> I'm usually a good player
16:44 <S712> Go D&D, is it 2012 there already?
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47:55 ataxia.il.us.austnet.org gives channel half-operator status to Ballig
47:55 ataxia.il.us.austnet.org gives channel half-operator status to diebot
47:55 ataxia.il.us.austnet.org gives channel operator status to ChanOP Ballig Avatar
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13:53 <Ballig> it is ridiculous how tired I am right now
13:53 S711 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
13:59 <Ballig> (I blame Avatar)
16:13 <Brunius> tiled windows is crazy
18:46 <Ballig> yeah
21:36 <Brunius> Later yo
21:48 <Brunius> I'm off to the airport to stalk Ballig
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21:59 <Ballig> it's true :(
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09:28 <Ballig> I can run We Be Goblins or one of the First Steps scenarios today if people are interested
16:28 Palhares ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
27:59 <Avatar> tiled windows just make sense
29:28 Avatar has changed the topic to: PFS: Sat 31st We Be Goblins / Mon 2nd 10.30am (new game) | CoTE: Sun Jan 8th 10am || AEDT (UTC+11:00) | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://dnd.ballig.net/
30:32 <Avatar> have you been awake all night ballig
30:45 <Ballig> I went to bed just after 3.30 and got up at 9
31:44 tristen ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
31:52 <Ballig> sup tristen
32:02 <Avatar> yeah I did something like that but I went striaght back to sleep
32:02 <tristen> yello!
32:03 <Palhares> tristen
32:05 <Avatar> yo
32:11 <tristen> hey all
32:48 <Avatar> Palhares: roll up a character !!
33:01 <Avatar> unless you already have
42:06 <Palhares> lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooo @ Avatar
42:12 Palhares ([email protected]) has left #d&d
42:27 <Avatar> what
42:41 <Avatar> bit rude
43:56 <Ballig> he's a random troll I think
44:09 <Ballig> generally if someone is in other austnet channels too, I don't trust them much
44:12 <Avatar> more like desperate & dateless
44:15 <Avatar> likely*
44:19 <Ballig> just like you, Mr @#bigbrother
45:10 Palhares ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
45:14 <Palhares> looooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllll
45:19 <Ballig> right
45:24 cradel ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
45:31 <cradel> ???????????????????
45:42 cradel ([email protected]) has left #d&d
45:49 * Avatar sets ban on *!*@115.69.59087F.9D63A9
45:50 Avatar has kicked Palhares from #d&d (come back, one year!)
46:14 <Avatar> I don't get to ban people very often
46:20 <Avatar> I used to ban people all the time, what happened
46:45 <Ballig> austnet's local population started to die, so the majority of the people we get here now are people actually interested in D&D
46:49 <Ballig> instead of random trolls
47:34 <Avatar> the random trolls are 25 now instead of 15
47:46 <Ballig> some are 20
47:47 <Ballig> haha!
47:53 <Ballig> (background: Spaceshot is 20)
49:03 <Avatar> yeah but he may not have been on IRC 10 years ago
49:27 <Avatar> like I don't think I've ever come across a 10 year old
49:30 <Ballig> I think for your theory to work you have to assume that people stopped becoming trolls after the last generation
49:36 <Ballig> I think there are more trolls being grown now than ever before
49:43 <Avatar> I did notice that 
49:45 <Ballig> Avatar: that's what michael jackson said
49:46 <Ballig> haha!
49:47 <Avatar> maybe we've got it wrong
49:57 <Avatar> LEAVE MICHAEL JACKSON ALONE
50:00 <Ballig> haha
50:01 <Avatar> WHAT DID HE DO TO YOU
50:08 * Avatar sobs
50:15 <Ballig> I actually snorted a little at my own joke
53:33 <Ballig> there's an okay feat for clerics that makes summon monster take a standard action instead of a full round, but only if the thing you're summoning has a subtype that exactly equals your alignment
53:48 <Ballig> and I'm not even sure I can find a single creature on the summon monster list that has a subtype the same as my cleric's alignment
54:32 <Avatar> I'd rather avoid summons
54:52 <Ballig> they can be useful
54:59 <Ballig> they can give flanks, for example
55:09 <Avatar> just not my style
55:12 <Ballig> which would be great if you have a rogue or sneak attacker in your party, bam they are now sneak attacking
56:03 <Ballig> the PFS SRD website makes it slightly easier, they have entries for summoned creatures that already apply the celestial or fiendish template and have annotations for what the stats are if the caster has augment summoning
56:32 <Avatar> if I have to rely on summons, I will know my character is truly broken
56:59 <Ballig> why?
57:20 <Ballig> not sure I understand why a summon is any different to, say, blinding someone
58:23 <Ballig> I mean, just as an example, at your level you can summon a dretch (small sized demon)
58:50 <Ballig> that has 3 attacks - 2 claws +6 (1d4+3), bite +6 (1d4+3)
58:58 <Ballig> so potentially 3d4+9 damage per round
59:58 <Avatar> where is the list of summons
00:01 <Avatar> that does sound good
00:23 <Ballig> http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster
01:01 <Ballig> a lantern archon gets two ranged touch attacks at +3 for 1d6 damage, so potentially 2d6 damage a round
02:04 <Ballig> an augmented wolverine would be better than an augmented dretch
03:13 <Ballig> augmented wolverine would have: 2#claws +6 (1d6+4); bite +6 (1d4+4)
03:21 <Ballig> raising by +2 if someone is silly enough to attack and deal damage to it
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11:08 <Avatar> raising what by +2
11:27 <Ballig> attack and damage
11:35 <Ballig> so becomes +8 and 1d6+6
11:54 <Mekkis> unless you're up against /anything/ with DR
12:18 <Ballig> right, you never want to rely on any one tactic
12:30 <Ballig> in the same way if you're up against anything with SR you can't rely on spells
13:05 <Ballig> anyway, my point to Avatar was that summons aren't useless, and I almost considered augment summoning
13:14 <Ballig> except that it requires the (mostly useless) spell focus conjuration feat as a pre-req
15:34 <Avatar> mmm I'm still inclined to go down the spell focus necromancy route
15:39 <Avatar> but you make a pretty convincing argument
17:07 <Ballig> you can still use summons without augment summoning, they're just not as powerful
18:36 <Avatar> yeah, and vice versa
19:06 <Ballig> a feat that reduces casting time of summons to standard action that doesn't have augment summoning as a pre-req and doesn't require that the subtype equals your alignment would be useful
19:25 <Ballig> but six extra arms would be useful too
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20:52 <Avatar> mort you are 12 hours too early
20:54 <Avatar> go back to bed
20:58 <Ballig> haha
23:46 <Mekkis> how is spell focus conjuration useless?
24:12 <Ballig> in my opinion it is mostly useless due to a lot of conjuration spells requiring no saving throw
24:19 <Ballig> that doesn't mean that there is no use to it
24:24 <Ballig> simply that in my opinion it's not worth a feat
24:27 <Mekkis> ah, but Glitterdust is Very Powerful
24:34 <Mekkis> as is Grease
24:35 <Ballig> sure, that's one spell
24:42 <Ballig> two low level spells
24:47 <Ballig> not really feat-worthy in my opinion
24:55 <Mekkis> and create pit, spiked pit, acidic pit, hungry pit
25:01 <Ballig> as well, we're talking about a cleric
25:58 <Mekkis> ah
26:05 <Avatar> I really wish there weren't overpowered spells like those
26:12 <Ballig> like what
26:20 <Avatar> like glitterdust and colour spray
26:27 <Mekkis> and grease
26:32 <Mekkis> and (.*) pit
26:40 <Ballig> anything that's really powerful can be used in your favour as well as against you
26:51 <Avatar> 90% in favour, 10% against
27:02 <Ballig> that 10% can get you killed though
27:17 <Avatar> well anything can you get killed
29:58 <Ballig> that's like comparing walking across a highway with your eyes closed with walking across a quiet suburban road being fully aware
30:00 <Ballig> both can "get you killed"
30:07 <Ballig> but you're really only describe one of them as "that can get you killed"
31:14 <Mort> what was glitterdust
31:16 <Mort> I thik someone used it
31:20 <Mort> oh lol
31:22 <Mort> 12 hrs too eary
31:24 <Mort> yeah time to go to bed..
31:26 <Mort> parteeehhhhh
32:33 <Ballig> glitterdust can blind you and negate your invisibility/concealment
32:45 <Ballig> honestly it should probably only do the latter
32:59 <Mort> who needs invis L:D
33:01 <Mort> just hoooooot
33:03 <Mort> nd yeah
33:10 <Mort> colourspray is nice at low levels though
33:13 <Mort> eveoneh as sucky will save
33:17 <Mort> except clerics :P
33:20 <Mort> just need to aim it right
33:34 <Mort> grease..urm...
33:40 <Mort> well Idunno I dont like greasing hte floor
33:46 <Mort> never know when you're ognna slip on your banana peel
35:20 <Ballig> are you high
35:54 <Mort> usually am :P
36:00 <Mort> :D
36:04 <Mort> especially on holidays
36:12 <Mort> I figure great ways to get high
36:16 <Mort> wihtout the beneifit of alochol o drugs
38:05 <Mort> I am ...da uber mort
38:16 <Mort> spam someitms odes it
38:38 <Mekkis> Die Über Mort?
38:42 <Mekkis> Das Über Mort?
39:23 <Mort> yes
39:26 <Mort> !
39:29 <Mort> okay new year party
39:35 <Mort> ROUND 2!
39:42 <Mort> told u my activity is kinda interesting
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39:52 <Avatar> new year party
39:59 <Avatar> ohh I get it, you have to be awake during the night on new years
40:03 <Avatar> so she is awake during the day 
40:30 <Ballig> ha
42:55 <Avatar> isn't excel meant to automatically give you options on how to display a csv file when you try to open one
43:12 <Mekkis> no idea
43:15 <Mekkis> I don't use excep
43:18 <Mekkis> excel even
43:28 <Mekkis> Libreoffice Calc does
43:35 <Ballig> Avatar: you could google for a CSV parser/viewer
43:38 <Ballig> or use google docs or libreoffice
43:46 <Avatar> google docs eh
44:54 <Ballig> google docs is clearly superior to everything for every purpose
45:00 <Ballig> hell, why do we chat on IRC, we should just use google docs
45:35 <Mekkis> it's not a csv, it's pipe separated
45:54 <Mekkis> wow
46:02 <Ballig> can you alter common programs to use psv instead of csv
46:08 <Ballig> (I made psv up, pretty clever right?)
46:12 <Mekkis> Libreoffice has an "export to google docs" function
46:29 <Mekkis> Ruby::CSV has the option to change the delimiter
46:43 <Ballig> so Ruby-based programs might offer it
46:49 <Avatar> I guess notepad could change it couldn't it
46:56 <Ballig> ha
47:00 <Ballig> search replace | and , ?
47:17 <Ballig> just have to hope the values don't have any commas
47:21 <Ballig> maybe search replace the commas into something else first
47:42 <Mekkis> pretty much anything that doesn't follow RFC4180 should allow you to just change the thing in the Split function
47:42 <Avatar> there's html all through it
48:09 <Ballig> the underlying function would offer it
48:14 <Ballig> that doesn't mean the overlying GUI will offer it
48:45 <Mekkis> Avatar, can you open ODS files?
48:55 <Avatar> not sure, what's that
49:05 <Mekkis> Libreoffice/openoffice
49:14 <Avatar> yeah pretty sure
50:12 <Avatar> google docs was worse than excel
50:16 <Mekkis> http://nl.ti4200.info/~mekkis/clericspells.ods
50:44 <Mekkis> time to try compiling Qt as a shared library
51:05 <Avatar> that's better
51:23 <Avatar> wow this is good
51:30 <Mekkis> ordered by level, then my school, then by subschool
51:36 <Mekkis> s/my/by//
53:01 <Mekkis> who's DMing on Mon 2nd?
53:18 <Ballig> I can
53:42 <Mekkis> with regards to the Harrowing, is it possible to make it in an afternoon?
54:41 <Ballig> we were going to look at saturday evenings weren't we
55:49 <Avatar> erm
55:54 <Avatar> is the PFS cap level 11 or 12?
56:01 <Avatar> can you actually play a 12th level character
56:04 <Avatar> in scenarios
57:00 <Mekkis> you can play Eyes of the Ten at 12th level
57:53 <Ballig> how many eyes do they have
58:35 <Mekkis> twenty
58:36 <Mekkis> probably
01:00 <Mekkis> the decemvirate's masks look pretty cool
01:40 <Ballig> are they anonymous
01:45 <Mekkis> more or less
02:55 <Ballig> can my character be one of the decemvirate
03:38 <Mekkis> maybe
06:28 <Ballig> maybe he already is, you wouldn't know !
16:31 <Avatar> do clerics have some sort of wand I could get that could do some damage every round when I have nothing else to do
16:53 <Avatar> inflict maybe
20:10 <Ballig> inflict requires a touch
20:26 <Avatar> that's okay, I'm a tank
20:51 <Mekkis> many domains offer that sort of thing
20:53 <Avatar> requires concentration?
21:00 <Avatar> my domains don't
21:23 <Mekkis> it's called a sword
21:33 <Avatar> oh okay, I'll use my 10 str with a sword will I
21:37 <Ballig> Avatar: I'm not warning you that you have to be adjacent
21:40 <Ballig> I'm warning you that it requires a melee attack
21:49 <Avatar> melee touch attack
22:02 <Ballig> that doesn't negate the fact that you will probably fail 50% of the time
22:05 <Ballig> if you roll under 10
22:23 <Ballig> one of the reasons my cleric chose the fire domain was for firebolt
24:26 <Mekkis> and the fact that they get a will save !
24:48 <Ballig> yeah
24:52 <Ballig> a wand will have a really low will save
24:59 <Ballig> (DC, I mean)
25:36 <Mekkis> DC11
26:54 <Avatar> I'm not sure why I chose knowledge
26:57 <Avatar> it hasn't been any help at all
27:40 <Ballig> you wanted the touch attack ability
27:46 <Avatar> doesn't look like it gets any better
27:47 <Ballig> that lets you know about the thing you touched
27:55 <Avatar> yeah I hope that gets useful at some point
28:35 <Ballig> ha you do that a bit
28:40 <Ballig> "I hope this is good *takes it*"
29:46 <Avatar> there was a bit more to it than that
29:50 <Ballig> clairaudience will be useful
29:58 <Avatar> I took a trait that required irori to my deity I think
30:07 <Avatar> and all his domains are fairly shit
30:10 <Mekkis> you wanted Improved Unarmed Strike !
30:20 <Avatar> I didn't want improved unarmed strike at all
30:52 <Ballig> ha
31:01 <Ballig> it would have been more useful to your character to get a good domain than a good trait
31:43 <Avatar> I didn't really consider checking all the domain powers
31:51 <Avatar> I looked more at the domain spells
32:00 <Avatar> I think the knowledge ones looked reasonable at a glance
32:12 <Avatar> the domain power looked reasonable as well
32:15 <Ballig> I hate the domain spells more than the abilities
32:26 <Ballig> rune domain has a half decent first level ability (basically you can create magical traps)
32:34 <Ballig> but most of the domain spells for it suck
32:43 <Avatar> I've got no interest in creating traps
33:04 <Ballig> strength domain would have been useful
33:04 <Avatar> strength might've been good
33:47 <Ballig> half decent first level ability (not great, but not useless), and domain spells that are always nice to have available
34:07 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure I had 3 domains with Waldo, how did I do that
34:31 <Avatar> was that ordained champion
34:39 <Ballig> or you cheated
34:40 <Ballig> haha
34:46 <Avatar> yeah
34:49 <Avatar> ordained champion
34:51 <Ballig> there is an archetype that lets you choose a domain not associated with your deity
35:03 <Avatar> can't choose an archetype now
35:16 <Avatar> er, can I
35:33 <Ballig> depends on the circumstances and who you ask
35:33 <Avatar> what book is it in
35:52 <Ballig> ultimate magic
35:56 <Ballig> so I think the timing works out
36:12 <Avatar> I think if the book came out after you create the character, you can adapt the character
36:20 <Ballig> the granted powers you get from the other domain are weaker though
36:29 <Avatar> there's a rule on it somewhere
36:36 <Mekkis> I think you should ask your local venture captain :S
36:38 <Avatar> I've got no idea where I remember seeing it
36:48 <Avatar> darkwhite brought it to our attention at unicon 
36:52 <Avatar> do you remember
37:03 <Avatar> at the lunch
37:29 <Avatar> ???
38:16 <Mekkis> no
38:36 <Avatar> I think he might've made a post about it as well
38:42 <Avatar> there were 3 points
38:50 <Ballig> I kind of remember reading a post
39:00 <Mekkis> he said he's in favour of it
39:03 <Ballig> for some reason I remember something to do with "when you level up next"
39:15 <Avatar> well that's handy, I am levelling up
39:24 <Ballig> you probably won't want to take it
39:28 <Ballig> the powers are weaker
39:32 <Mekkis> if you haven't got to the point where you've used it, you can take a new archtype
39:35 <Avatar> man almost nothing is weaker
39:55 <Ballig> well, basically, the non-deity domain you take uses your cleric level and wisdom modifier as 2 lower than they currently are
40:01 <Ballig> in order to determine DCs, uses per day, etc
40:07 <Ballig> also means you don't get the higher level domain ability until 2 levels later
40:14 <Ballig> (the domain spells aren't affected)
41:33 <Avatar> Ballig: yeah that is pretty garbage
41:35 <Avatar> what are the benefits
41:48 <Ballig> you get to choose a domain that isn't on your deity's list of domains
42:41 <Avatar> wow I found something the paizo site is good at
42:53 <Avatar> you can look up keywords in posts that a specific user has made
43:02 <Ballig> ha
45:07 <Avatar> related, but I don't think this is it: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2rvn?Pathfinder-Society-APG-and-rebuilds#12
47:32 <Ballig> look up Josh's posts
47:37 <Ballig> look for the word cavalier
47:55 <Avatar> darkwhite's post is in that thread, the one with the 3 points
47:57 <Mekkis> Josh doesn't work for Paizo anymore
49:17 <Avatar> do you reckon that post is enough to go by to place an archetype on?
49:25 <Mekkis> no
50:00 <Avatar> do you see the one I'm talking about
50:10 <Avatar> 2) you may apply a newly released alternate racial traits, archetype, sub-domain, sub-school, where doing so more accurately represents the character you've been playing before the book was released; 
50:45 <Ballig> that's the one I remember reading
52:18 <Ballig> Avatar: what's Cairo's AC and HP
52:45 <Avatar> AC 19
52:50 <Avatar> 34/34
52:58 <Avatar> that's including the con hit
53:28 <Ballig> might want to let Bobbob tank
53:47 <Avatar> yeah depends if Bobbob's there 
53:53 <Ballig> oh, he'll be there
53:57 <Avatar> not at arcanacon
54:09 <Ballig> how do you know
54:14 <Avatar> oh, I know
54:20 <Ballig> maybe I'll come down
54:37 <Avatar> that won't happen
54:46 <Ballig> you don't know that
56:08 <Avatar> oh I know
56:39 <Ballig> I will be crashing at your place
57:11 <Avatar> there's an archetype which allows a change in domain
57:32 <Ballig> but the switch has to be another domain of your deity right?
57:32 <Avatar> and the penalty is that I'm not proficient with the deity's weapon
57:37 <Ballig> er
57:40 <Ballig> separatist
57:42 <Avatar> yeah
57:43 <Ballig> that' sthe one I told you about already
57:50 <Ballig> read the forbidden ritual bit
57:51 <Avatar> yeah but who listens to you
58:16 <Avatar> wonder if it's worth it
58:26 <Ballig> depends on the domain you go for
58:30 <Avatar> what does clairvoyance actually do
58:39 <Ballig> lets you spy on a specific location
58:48 <Avatar> that could be good in PFS
58:53 <Ballig> so you could be outside the room and magically spy on what's inside
58:56 <Ballig> to know what to prepare
59:02 <Avatar> is there a range limit
59:10 <Ballig> uhm, more than 100 feet
59:27 <Avatar> I'm thinking of scrying
59:32 <Ballig> 400 ft + 40 per level
59:41 <Ballig> so 600 feet for tyou
59:42 <Ballig> -t
59:43 <Avatar> mmm
02:22 <Avatar> er
02:28 <Avatar> are players allowed a perception check to act in surprise rounds
02:47 <Avatar> players/mobs
03:03 <Ballig> depends on the situation
03:13 <Ballig> you make the perception check to see if you are involved in the surprise round or not
03:52 <Ballig> I was just checking up on the knowledge domain power
04:09 <Ballig> it's a spell-like ability so it's a standard action (instead of the 10 minutes it takes to cast the real spell)
04:17 <Ballig> but you only get to use it for 6*<caster_level> seconds per day
04:23 <Avatar> the ultimate combat cleric archetypes suck a bit
04:31 <Ballig> i agree
04:37 <Ballig> they let you take a subdomain though
04:41 <Ballig> check out what your subdomain could potentially be
04:52 <Avatar> what?
04:59 <Ballig> or was that not UM
05:01 <Ballig> maybe that was APG
05:04 <Avatar> ultimate magic does
05:22 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure I created Cairo after the APG was released, so I can't use something in there
05:38 <Ballig> yeah it's APG
06:00 <Avatar> is it just a free subdomain? or what do you lose
06:33 <Ballig> it replaces your domain
06:37 <Ballig> the healing subdomains are good
07:15 <Ballig> the healing subdomain power replaces the one that lets you heal people who are on <0 hp
07:33 <Ballig> and instead your touch removes a minor condition (like dazed, fatigued, shaken, sickened, or staggered)
08:20 <Avatar> doesn't impress me
08:32 <Ballig> impresses me
08:41 <Ballig> I can see more use for that than for the ability to heal people who have <0 hp
09:09 <Avatar> UM has some pretty interesting variant channeling options
09:10 <Ballig> maybe you could force march all day and just keep removing the fatigued condition
09:12 <Ballig> so you never become exhausted
09:36 <Avatar> but don't you immediately regain it
09:46 <Ballig> not sure, depends on the wording and interpretation
10:04 <Avatar> the thing that causes it happens again immediately
10:06 <Ballig> I didn't like any of the variant channeling
10:19 <Avatar> the problem with variant channeling is they all take away the ability to channel heals :P
10:28 <Ballig> your channel heals for half
10:33 <Ballig> while you give some random, niche bonus
10:36 <Avatar> oh, si it
10:37 <Ballig> like a bonus to perform
10:56 <Avatar> the disease one heals ability damage
11:22 <Ballig> that's not bad
11:39 <Avatar> the bigger problem with those bonuses is they all last until the next round
11:47 <Avatar> I mean that's useless
11:56 <Avatar> why doesn't glitterdust or colour spray only last until the next round
12:05 <Ballig> it can
12:11 <Avatar> usually doesn't
12:15 <Ballig> it's 1d4
12:16 <Avatar> for several levels
12:30 <Avatar> that's a 75% chance it doesn't !
12:47 <Ballig> it still can
14:40 <Ballig> so if you had the disease variant channeling, you would still heal 1d6
14:43 <Ballig> but also heal 2 points of ability damage
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19:05 <Avatar> wonder if true strike would be good on a wand
20:05 <Ballig> I didn't realise that true strike removed concealment miss chance
20:07 <Ballig> that's pretty decent
20:24 <Avatar> you still have to know where they are
20:30 <Ballig> yeah
20:40 <Ballig> 50% miss chance is a huge pain even when you know where they are though
20:45 <Avatar> yeah
21:00 <Ballig> I think you gave me your sore throat
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26:28 <Avatar> yeah I was trying to
26:46 <Avatar> I thought man I can't believe ballig is making me skype AGAIN, if only HE would have this sore throat
26:51 <Avatar> and that's what gave me the idea
27:07 <Ballig> haha I didn't make you talk
27:11 <Avatar> I had to get on antibiotics to get rid of it, so gg
27:31 <Spaceshot> what are you 2 ladies fighting about?
27:48 <Avatar> me giving him diseases
27:56 <Spaceshot> over the internet?
27:59 <Avatar> ye
28:07 <Spaceshot> don't take a photo of him
28:10 <Spaceshot> you'll take his soul
28:26 <Ballig> he gave me his sore throat
28:42 <Spaceshot> over the internet?
33:49 <Avatar> ye
34:01 <Ballig> ye
34:54 <Spaceshot> avatar; nice biowarfare
35:11 <Avatar> what
35:16 <Avatar> oh thx
35:22 <Spaceshot> no probs
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42:06 <Avatar> I took giant as a language
42:16 <Avatar> and so far we've seen no scenarios with giants
42:38 <Avatar> that's my only language aside from common
42:42 <Ballig> ha
42:57 <Ballig> racial languages seem mostly useless in PFS
43:19 <Avatar> yeah
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43:25 <Avatar> I really hate that actually
43:34 <Avatar> because the PFS specific languages aren't listed anywhere
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43:47 <Avatar> there should be a whole section on that in the PFS manual
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44:17 <Spaceshot_tm2> they are, but not where you'd expect they should be
44:23 <Spaceshot_tm2> they're in the inner sea guide I think
45:01 <Ballig> by PFS manual he meant core ruleboook, I think
45:05 <Ballig> but they're in the campaign setting material
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45:38 <Spaceshot_tm2> so you think he meant the society rules or the PF rulebook?
45:40 <Avatar> some of them are
45:44 <Spaceshot_tm2> that'd be just silly
45:50 <Avatar> I meant the PFS manual
46:06 <Avatar> pathfinder isn't only set in golarion is it
46:23 <Avatar> to have it in the core rulebook would be even nicer
46:33 <Spaceshot_tm2> basically, and the inner sea guide (unless that is golarion)
46:52 <Avatar> pathfinder chronicles campaign setting mentions some of them, in strange places
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47:04 <Avatar> there are profiles of specific people, and it says what language they speak
47:10 <Avatar> but like... can we have a list please?
47:34 <Avatar> the profiles are spread throughout the book
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49:01 <Spaceshot_tm2> tried google?
49:18 <Avatar> shouldn't need google, it's in a rulebook
49:30 <Spaceshot_tm2> or, try google
49:34 <Spaceshot_tm2> stop asking here and google first
49:36 <Avatar> or, find the rulebook
49:45 <Avatar> stop talking
49:46 <Spaceshot_tm2> google might tell you what rulebook, or where the list is
49:59 <Avatar> I've been through the paizo forums
50:02 <Avatar> still hunting it down
50:14 <Avatar> we can't be the only ones having this problem
50:27 <Spaceshot_tm2> http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderSociety/general/bonusLanguagesAndTheInnerSeaWorldGuide
50:32 <Spaceshot_tm2> bam
50:36 <Ballig> Spaceshot_tm2: he's saying it should be in the rulebook
50:41 <Ballig> he's not saying that he can't find a list
50:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> it's in the new inner sea guide
51:00 <Ballig> as a list, or spread through the profiles?
51:01 <Spaceshot_tm2> that's a rulebook :P
51:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> each nation has a list
51:13 <Ballig> right, so there's not a list
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51:15 <Ballig> stop skimming
51:15 <Spaceshot_tm2> supposedly says the thread/post
51:42 <Avatar> yeah there is a list
52:57 <Spaceshot_tm2> congratulations
53:02 <Avatar> there's no way everyone would have this book
53:15 <Spaceshot_tm2> what book?
53:26 <Avatar> the inner sea world guide
53:42 <Avatar> the one mentioned in the post you linked, you skimmer
53:47 <Spaceshot_tm2> ballig; I believe I was right
53:57 <Avatar> sounds like you got lucky in being right
54:01 <Ballig> you always believe you are right
54:03 <Spaceshot_tm2> no, I googled :P
54:13 <Spaceshot_tm2> hey, I don't believe I'm right until I google
54:13 <Avatar> you didn't even know what the book was
54:24 <Spaceshot_tm2> I knew what the book was
54:29 <Spaceshot_tm2> didn't know where in it
54:33 <Avatar> [15:53] <Avatar> there's no way everyone would have this book
54:33 <Avatar> [15:53] <Spaceshot_tm2> what book?
54:49 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
54:55 <Ballig> that seems like damning evidence to me
54:57 <Spaceshot_tm2> so you could of been talking about a different book
55:07 <Ballig> so you admit you didn't know which book
55:11 <Spaceshot_tm2> ballig; like that non-PFS game you were playing?
55:12 <Spaceshot_tm2> XD
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55:20 <Ballig> it was a non-PFS game
55:22 <Ballig> and you can't prove otherwise
55:33 <Avatar> did you guys play we be goblins last night
55:37 <Ballig> no
55:43 <Ballig> spaceshot said he had to go out but then didn't end up going anywhere
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55:51 Avatar has changed the topic to: PFS: Mon 2nd 10.30am (new game) | CoTE: Sun Jan 8th 10am || AEDT (UTC+11:00) | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://dnd.ballig.net/
55:52 <Spaceshot_tm2> wha? I said I was doing stuff
55:55 <Spaceshot_tm2> didn't say going out
56:41 <Ballig> if thelen and that thawne character werre here we could play WBG
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57:15 <Avatar> the languages is so significant, I'm inclined to lift it out of the book and put it on the newbie guide
57:33 <Avatar> it's not on the PF SRD either
58:04 <Spaceshot_tm2> the languages are important?
58:22 <Avatar> yeah, if you want to understand them
58:29 <Avatar> some faction missions require their use
58:32 <Spaceshot_tm2> ahh
58:35 <Avatar> the alternative is a linguitsics check
58:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> comprehend languages GO
58:39 <Avatar> but that's a trained only skill
59:23 <Avatar> you should be able to know what languages there are in PFS so you have the option to choose them
59:32 <Spaceshot_tm2> true
59:32 <Ballig> I think it should be in the Pathfinder Society Guide to Organised play
59:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> but in that theory
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59:52 <Spaceshot_tm2> you should also know all the archetypes available
00:03 <Spaceshot_tm2> but you don't (even the PFSRD doesn't have them all)
00:13 <Ballig> it's significant enough that finding out after a few scenarios on your high int wizard that your 5 languages are all useless and you should have chosen regional ones, you are quite annoyed
00:25 <Ballig> you don't need archetypes to play a scenario
00:47 <Ballig> having a specific archetype never has any impact on the scenarios themselves
00:49 <Ballig> knowing languages does
00:58 <Avatar> no contest
01:11 <Spaceshot_tm2> true
01:14 <Spaceshot_tm2> that is a bit different
01:21 <Spaceshot_tm2> but it's still something people will want to know
01:21 <Avatar> it might be fair to compare it to uh
01:26 <Spaceshot_tm2> like what skills have use and what don't :P
01:39 <Avatar> well nothing really
01:49 <Avatar> you simply don't know the languages exist until you're told
02:05 <Avatar> I was going to say craft (something) where that something is something completely obtuse that you'd never consider taking
02:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> I dunno, having disarm traps and lock picking (whatever that skill is now) could be useless for the first 5 levels
02:13 <Spaceshot_tm2> crafting gives you cash
02:23 <Avatar> but it's even rarer than that since you'd literally have to make something up for it to be a fair comparison
02:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> true
02:39 <Avatar> and requiring that for a faction mission
02:45 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
02:48 <Ballig> it would be like if there was a skill in another book
02:52 <Ballig> say, the inner sea guide
02:56 <Avatar> yeah, and it was trained only
02:59 <Avatar> and you needed it
02:59 <Ballig> and then you find out later that half the scenarios require that skill
03:04 <Spaceshot_tm2> I think the issue is that people expect to be facing orcs/goblins/outsiders
03:16 <Spaceshot_tm2> but they end up facing human equivilants
03:21 <Avatar> the issue is that paizo didn't put it in the rulebook that everyone has
03:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> I wouldn't shove it in the PF rulebook
03:43 <Spaceshot_tm2> the PFS creation guide would be nice though
03:46 <Avatar> that's why I said the PFS guide
03:49 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
03:58 <Avatar> the other thing is
04:04 <Ballig> that's what we said
04:05 <Avatar> with the racial languages, you have an idea when you can expect to use it
04:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> though, the inner sea guide is the campaign book which PFS uses
04:17 <Ballig> it's the campaign setting
04:19 <Avatar> but the new languages are region based and you never know when you can expect to use it
04:21 <Ballig> but it's not required reading
04:21 <Spaceshot_tm2> that's it
04:24 <Spaceshot_tm2> sure
04:27 <Avatar> unless you really dig into the geography
04:35 <Spaceshot_tm2> but you also don't need to read about what your skills do to take them
04:37 <Spaceshot_tm2> but it's wise
04:51 <Ballig> er
04:58 <Ballig> the core rulebook is required reading
04:59 <Ballig> for PFS
05:14 <Spaceshot_tm2> you aren't required to read it
05:21 <Spaceshot_tm2> you're required to be able to make a character from it
05:22 <Ballig> it's a book you are expected to have access to to play PFS
05:26 <Ballig> inner sea guide isn't
05:26 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
05:31 <Spaceshot_tm2> access != read
05:36 <Ballig> that's semantics man
05:42 <Ballig> whether you use the word access or read is irrelevant
05:45 <Ballig> point is, it's a required book
05:48 <Ballig> it's an expected book
05:48 <Spaceshot_tm2> tis
05:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> yup
05:56 <Ballig> it' sa book you have to read, or access, or set on fire, or eat
06:03 <Ballig> whatever word you want to use
06:04 <Spaceshot_tm2> to some extent
06:40 <Spaceshot_tm2> btw to those skimmers out there
06:52 <Spaceshot_tm2> is 'the inner sea guide' book mentioned in the PFS guide?
07:02 <Ballig> there we go: it's part of the Core Assumption
07:05 <Ballig> the exact word used in the guide
07:09 <Ballig> and no, it's not
07:17 <Spaceshot_tm2> there is no mention of it anywhere?
07:30 <Ballig> the Core Assumption is the core rulebook, the PFS society field guide (previously seeker of secrets), and the PFS guide itself
07:46 <Ballig> it's mentioned as an available resource
07:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
07:52 <Ballig> along with APG, UM, UC, etc
07:57 <Spaceshot_tm2> that is a tad odd then
08:41 <Ballig> also just for reference there's a difference between skimming something and not reading the entire book
08:44 <Ballig> I haven't read the entire core rulebook
09:03 <Spaceshot_tm2> so should of taken tomb raider XD
09:12 <Spaceshot_tm2> me neither
09:14 <Spaceshot_tm2> not all of it
09:19 <Spaceshot_tm2> don't care about each spell
09:30 <Avatar> tomb raider is a good trait
09:32 <Ballig> I have tomb raider on a character, and Avatar has it on another
09:42 <Ballig> only one character you own can have it because it's a faction trait
09:44 <Spaceshot_tm2> on a Osarion character?
09:54 <Avatar> yeah
09:58 <Avatar> it's an osirion trait isn't it
10:04 <Ballig> yes
10:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmm
10:13 <Ballig> and unlike racial traits you can't just take a trait to get it for free
10:16 <Ballig> haha, adopted, how I love you
10:18 <Avatar> haha
10:25 <Avatar> that is such a huge loophole
10:26 <Spaceshot_tm2> haha
10:50 <Ballig> it's apparently as intended
10:57 <Ballig> I mean, there are still limitations
11:00 <Spaceshot_tm2> haha
11:03 <Ballig> you can't be a human with a dwarf trait and an elf trait
11:07 <Ballig> because you can't take adopted twice
11:21 <Ballig> however you can be a human with a human trait and an elf trait
11:30 <Spaceshot_tm2> there is an abaslom insert in the PFS guide
19:51 <Avatar> yeah the fact that you can't be adopted twice would be why it was let through
20:02 <Spaceshot_tm2> haha
20:13 <Spaceshot_tm2> just be elf, get an elf trait and be adopted
24:52 <Ballig> my cavalier is a gnome who was adopted by elves
25:02 <Ballig> so he has an elf-only trait
25:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> heh
51:07 <Avatar> that is such a weird character concept
52:25 <Ballig> what are you trying to say!
52:36 <Avatar> I think it was pretty clear
52:49 <Ballig> I think you should say it to Bobbob's face
52:55 <Ballig> while you stand a minimum of 15 feet away from him
52:56 <Avatar> he'd charge me with his mount and lance
53:56 <Ballig> I like being able to ride-by after the charge to give my wolf a chance to trip
53:59 <Ballig> it's pretty badass
56:48 <Avatar> should try and see what happens with a roc
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57:26 <Brunius> sup jerks
57:30 <Mekkis> does weapon finesse work with CMB?
57:32 <Avatar> your the jerk
57:43 <Avatar> light weapon isn't it
57:44 <Brunius> Don't thing so, Mekkis
57:47 <Ballig> Mekkis: no
57:51 <Ballig> that's Agile Maneuvers
57:55 <Brunius> Light plus some others
58:03 <Avatar> specific others
58:12 <Ballig> yeah, there's a specific feat to use dex for CMB
58:13 <Avatar> yeah agile maneuvers does what you're after
58:29 <Ballig> my wolf took it
01:11 <Mekkis> Ari should take it
01:15 <Mekkis> what's your wolf's name?
01:16 <Mekkis> Adolf?
01:26 <Avatar> wolf with no name
02:02 <Avatar> Mekkis when is conditions going in
02:40 <Mekkis> when I get around to it
02:42 <Mekkis> :)
04:40 <Mekkis> there's a problem with that file you sent me :S
05:15 <Ballig> my wolf isn't named Adolf
05:20 <Ballig> that was Ruben's wolf's name
08:03 <Ballig> Mekkis: what CMB attacks does Ari make?
08:14 <Mekkis> none, at the moment
08:24 <Mekkis> might start trying to trip though :)
08:53 <Mekkis> I think Kormmigahn is a rather underpowered character
09:35 <Ballig> does he have a trip attack or would he have to make the attack based on regular combat maneuver rules?
10:48 <Mekkis> regular CM rules
11:38 <Ballig> would become costly in feats
11:53 <Mekkis> impossible to get improved trip
11:59 <Ballig> yeah, I was just thinking that
12:01 <Mekkis> (I can't get the int up to 13)
12:04 <Ballig> could become dangerous!
16:33 <Mekkis> Ballig, so Bobbob's now at fifth?
16:40 <Mekkis> is Cairo?
16:40 <Ballig> yeah
16:46 <Ballig> aye
16:57 <Mekkis> Kaleb?
17:04 <Ballig> don't think so
24:13 <Mekkis> Die, bot
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24:32 <Mekkis> !condition Blinded
24:33 <diebot> Mekkis, The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to 
24:59 <Ballig> !condition dazed
24:59 <diebot> Ballig, The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC. A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.
25:49 <Ballig> that'll be useful
26:24 <Avatar> !condition blinded
26:24 <diebot> Avatar, The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to 
26:37 <Avatar> !condition help
26:38 <diebot> Avatar, bleed, blinded, broken, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, dead, deafened, disabled, dying, energy drained, entangled, exhausted, fascinated, fatigued, flatfooted, frightened, grappled, helpless, incorporeal, invisible, nauseated, panicked, paralysed, petrified, pinned, prone, shaken, sickened, stable, staggered, stunned, unconscious
26:55 <Avatar> !condition broken
26:56 <diebot> Avatar, Items that have taken damage in excess of half their 
27:02 <Avatar> I split that into 5 parts
27:30 <Avatar> ah, the broken description gives the extra detail
28:22 <Ballig> !condition a
30:20 <Mekkis> !condition Blinded
30:22 <diebot> Mekkis, The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to 
30:26 <Mekkis> Die, bot
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31:02 <Avatar> you should change IDENTIFY to just be idientify
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31:33 <Mekkis> !condition Blinded
31:35 <diebot> Mekkis, The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to 
31:48 <Mekkis> !condition Dead
31:49 <diebot> Mekkis,  The character's hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character's soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either t
32:01 <Ballig> !condition helpless
32:01 <diebot> Ballig,  A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.  As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon 
32:10 <Mekkis> I told you to keep descriptions less than 350 characters
32:21 <Avatar> I missed that
32:27 <Ballig> Avatar doesn't listen to people
32:35 <Avatar> no I missed it
32:39 <Avatar> I just don't listen to you
32:44 <Ballig> :(
32:54 <Avatar> I mean, who would
33:18 <Mekkis> you also didn't properly escape the quotes
33:21 <Mekkis> like I told you to
33:30 <Avatar> what do you mean escape the quotes
33:43 <Mekkis> double them
33:45 <Avatar> double quotes?
33:48 <Avatar> I thought I caught them
34:02 <Mekkis> so it'd be opponent''s mercy
34:15 <Avatar> yeah I knew what you meant
34:24 <Avatar> hang on I'll fix it up
34:55 <Avatar> it's actually easier than it looks
35:02 <Avatar> do a find/replace for 't and 's
35:09 <Avatar> do each one individually 
35:21 <Avatar> but it's like a 10 second job
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36:51 <Avatar> gotta learn diligence, tashes
37:19 <WhyisTashestaken> i'm plenty dilligent!
37:25 WhyisTashestaken is now known as tashes
37:30 <tashes> so dilligent that i just woke up.
37:32 <tashes> happy new year!
38:15 <Avatar> HAPPY new year
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41:49 <Mekkis> I've corrected THAT, Avatar 
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42:27 <Avatar> ok, what HAVEN'T you corrected
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52:23 <Avatar> I managed to forget Cairo has a horse
53:17 <Ballig> do you want to use it in combat
53:31 <Avatar> yeah
54:45 <Ballig> do you have any ride skill
55:11 <Avatar> no
55:14 <Avatar> who needs ride skill
55:25 <Ballig> there are low DC ride checks you have to make if you are in combat while on a mount
55:33 <Ballig> whenever you attack, whenever you are hit, etc
55:38 <Avatar> I wear breastplate
55:43 <Ballig> okay and?
55:49 <Avatar> I could stop taking cleric levels at level 5
56:00 <Ballig> sorry, how does the breastplate enter into this at all?
56:05 <Avatar> armour check penalty
56:14 <Ballig> yeah, that'll screw your ride check even further
56:35 <Avatar> I know what I need 
56:39 <Avatar> a level of gunslinger
56:51 <Ballig> take a level of cavalier
57:03 <Avatar> why cavalier
57:18 <Ballig> you ignore armour check penalty while riding your mount
57:21 <Ballig> (for the ride skill)
57:28 <Avatar> hmmmm
57:44 <Avatar> but I won't get a gun
57:50 <Ballig> you can buy a lance
58:10 <Avatar> I don't have str for a lance
58:17 <Ballig> my strength is +2
58:24 <Avatar> mine is +0
58:33 <Ballig> if +1 is nothing, +2 is almost nothing
58:42 <Avatar> but you say it adds up
58:53 <Avatar> even +1 adds up, imagine +2 !
58:56 <Ballig> but you don't agree with that
59:02 <Avatar> neither do you
59:29 <Ballig> I would kill you in the middle of combat for another +1 to strength bonus
59:42 <Avatar> what, why
59:54 <Avatar> what are we talking about
59:55 <Ballig> that's just what I would do for another +1 to strength
00:09 <Ballig> if it was a faction mission "randomly charge and kill your cleric in the middle of combat and you will get +1 to strength", that's what I would do
00:40 <Avatar> I don't care
00:46 <Ballig> that's how much I like +1s
01:04 <Avatar> I don't know if that really says much
01:08 <Ballig> it does
01:13 <Ballig> I'm willing to kill the cleric mid-combat
01:23 <Avatar> you'd probably kill my cleric for an extra stick of gum
01:33 <tashes> They drop gum?
01:33 <Ballig> what flavour
01:43 <Avatar> strawberry?
01:51 <Ballig> maybe if it was watermelon
01:56 <Ballig> oh! or liquorice
01:57 <Avatar> ok watermelon
02:03 <Ballig> seriously, liquorice and mint gum is ridiculously good
02:13 <Avatar> what if you don't like liquorice
02:18 <Ballig> sucks to be you
02:27 <Avatar> no but I mean would you like the gum
02:43 <Ballig> doubt it
03:21 <Mekkis> heh
13:43 <Mekkis> heh
13:49 <Mekkis> "Kill a Taldan"
19:31 <Ballig> Cairo's Osirion
22:17 <Mekkis> oh well
22:17 <Mekkis> :S
22:40 <Mekkis> collateral damage
22:55 Mort ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
44:36 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
44:49 <Brunius> Sup jerks
45:14 <Brunius> Huh, looks like I didn't close down icechat
45:57 <Brunius> Spaceshot_tm2: He's not interested. Plays tk now
52:27 <Mekkis> tk?
23:35 Sachiru_AFK has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
27:42 <Spaceshot_tm2> tomb kings
27:52 <Spaceshot_tm2> Brunius: does he want any vampire counts undead?
27:54 <Spaceshot_tm2> XD
28:53 <Spaceshot_tm2> I also have the TK book if he's fairly new to the army
33:46 <Mort> gr
40:16 <Spaceshot_tm2> well I'm gonna put up some shit on wargamerAU soon then
41:22 Brunius has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
50:54 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
50:59 <Mekkis> selling off some stuff?
55:59 <Spaceshot_tm2> some warhammer stuff
56:18 <Spaceshot_tm2> mainly got fantasy left (brunius and his friend are buying the 40k I wanted to sell)
01:27 <Mekkis> I'm interested
02:12 <Mekkis> can you show me a photo and approximate price?
08:57 <Spaceshot_tm2> hmmm
09:24 <Spaceshot_tm2> currently I've got a photo of my woodelves, but I've got boxes of other stuff which are basically what's in the boxes
09:30 <Spaceshot_tm2> let me find them
11:01 <Spaceshot_tm2> http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/myshell_urshell/Warhammer/IMG_7094.jpg
11:03 <Spaceshot_tm2> that's everything
11:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> gimme a sec to get the specifics
11:46 Brunius_ has quit (Connection reset by peer)
11:58 <Spaceshot_tm2> I'll probably want to keep my painted dryads, but I can be persuaded to sell/trade a few of them
13:50 <Spaceshot_tm2> close up of the dryads http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/myshell_urshell/Warhammer/IMG_7099.jpg
14:26 <Spaceshot_tm2> http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/myshell_urshell/Warhammer/IMG_7097.jpg closer picture of the warhawks, archers and the broken tree woman
15:38 <Spaceshot_tm2> http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/myshell_urshell/Warhammer/IMG_7095.jpg closer picture of the riders, characters and again the dryads
16:59 <Spaceshot_tm2> http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/myshell_urshell/Warhammer/IMG_7098.jpg my wardancers are the metal models, the nosprayed grey ones on the right are my bitmashed way watchers (duel swords and bows)
25:22 <Spaceshot_tm2> prices, I haven't put prices to things yet, but if you have any suggestions I'm willing to hear them
00:22 <tashes> Happy new yea... oh, i'ts spaceshot
00:48 <Spaceshot_tm2> XD
42:23 <Avatar> zzzzzz
42:28 <Ballig> zzz
42:34 <Spaceshot_tm2> n you
42:40 <Spaceshot_tm2> no you*
52:47 <Spaceshot_tm2> about the shadowrun campaign, I'll be able to run it in about a month or 2
53:31 <Spaceshot_tm2> preferably weekdays, but if I get the extra/house rules down, it should be run-able like PFS, whenever there are numbers not doing a run already XD
54:31 <Avatar> I'm sure in a month or two I will forget you said that
56:55 <Spaceshot_tm2> hahaha
56:57 <Spaceshot_tm2> nice
57:15 <Ballig> s/month/day/
59:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> does it have to be exact day?
59:25 <Ballig> that was a search/replace on Avatar's last message
59:47 <Spaceshot_tm2> heh
02:22 <Avatar> in all fairness, I may remember in a month or two but forget in a day or two
02:55 <Spaceshot_tm2> heh
03:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> well, it gives you time to at least vaguely stare at the rulebook
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07:06 <Mekkis> Spaceshot_tm2, what sort of price
07:16 <Brunius> Jerks
07:28 <Brunius> This is all your fault, Ballig 
07:35 <Ballig> what
08:15 <Brunius> Now I'm saying "jerks" all the time
08:21 <Brunius> ALL YOUR FAULT
08:37 <Avatar> copycat is spaceshot's nickname
08:43 <Avatar> but I think we need to rework that around a bit
08:50 <Brunius> Why is that?
08:57 <Avatar> something's happened with you two, they don't fit anymore
11:30 <Ballig> spaceshot is def "arguer"
12:02 <Brunius> Ballig is jerk
12:05 <Brunius> That jerk
15:14 <Brunius> Ballig: What was up with that freak rain before?
15:26 <Avatar> no that could just as easily apply to you
15:40 <Ballig> I barely heard the thunder, so I wouldn't know
16:16 <Avatar> I'll tell you what's up with it
16:18 <Avatar> 2012 is what's up with it
16:37 <Brunius> Avatar is theorist
16:50 <Brunius> (Conspiracy theorist, that is)
17:25 <Ballig> proquar is a real conspiracy theorist
17:36 <Brunius> Oh?
17:43 <Ballig> she believes that the american government uses mcdonalds (and some other store, can't remember which) to spy on everyone
17:53 <Avatar> someone should try rope proquar back in for PFS
17:59 <Avatar> it's perfect for her
18:28 <Brunius> Whys that?
18:47 <Ballig> because the primary reason for not coming back to play with us was not enough time to commit to a regular campaign
21:25 <Brunius> Hmmm
21:45 <Spaceshot_tm2> Mekkis; to put out some numbers, to buy all that I've got new straight from GW at current prices is $540ish
23:51 <Brunius> moin
28:07 <Spaceshot_tm2> now that's for everything there, plus a bunch of unmade guys
33:10 Proquar ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
33:17 <Proquar> woot!
33:20 <Proquar> I made it back!
34:45 <Proquar> or maybe not
34:55 * Proquar reads the crickets chirping
35:19 <Spaceshot_tm2> the infamous proquar
35:34 <Proquar> hey spaceshot!
35:37 * Proquar bows
35:43 <Proquar> infamous, eh?  
35:45 <Spaceshot_tm2> We've met?
35:59 <Proquar> maybe i should remain in legend... :p
36:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> haha
36:11 <Proquar> maybe... i have a shithouse memory for people online
36:15 <Spaceshot_tm2> some here would dislike that
36:16 <Spaceshot_tm2> and same
38:09 * Proquar ponders the situation
38:43 <Spaceshot_tm2> heard you were unable to play consistantly timed games consistantly
41:26 <Ballig> you could probably have said consistently a few more times
42:01 <Spaceshot_tm2> I could of been more consistant in my ability to say consistant couldn't I of consistantly?
43:06 <Proquar> yeah... consistency is not my strong point
43:24 <Proquar> where is mekkis?
52:50 <Brunius> Was it Proquar that played Lupton?
53:12 <Ballig> no
53:17 <Ballig> that was Sam
54:04 <Proquar> it was proquar
54:04 <Avatar> Er are you sure
54:10 <Proquar> hey brunius
54:12 <Proquar> avatar
54:25 <Ballig> sure about what
55:06 <Avatar> proquar
55:09 <Avatar> roll up a character
55:18 <Proquar> where is graylight?!
55:31 <Spaceshot_tm2> all the classics have gone
55:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> at least many have
55:40 <Ballig> graylight wasn't a classic
55:44 <Ballig> he was only here for a couple of months
55:56 <Proquar> he's more legend than me
55:57 <Proquar> ;)
56:15 <Proquar> anyone remember his skype name?
56:20 <Ballig> never knew it
56:23 <Spaceshot_tm2> nope
56:46 <Spaceshot_tm2> proquar, you've missed a lot of tards who have been here for only a little while
56:47 <Proquar> yes you did - he was in the first chat session
57:02 <Proquar> is kapow back?
57:08 <Proquar> and what about the us guy?
57:30 <Spaceshot_tm2> the guy that started with M?
58:13 <Proquar> i thought it was L, now you mention it
58:59 Brunius has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
59:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> check the website's characters
59:11 <Spaceshot_tm2> you'll get the name there
59:36 <Avatar> I'm not even joking proquar
59:36 <Ballig> Lucianus
59:38 <Avatar> PFS will suit you
59:44 <Ballig> kapow was playing for a while, but then started ignoring Avatar for some reason
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59:52 <Ballig> Proquar: it's true, PFS is right down your alley
59:56 <Ballig> suits your lifestyle
59:59 <Brunius> Bloody mibbit
00:10 <Brunius> Sam played Loria
00:30 <Proquar> i'd probably like to - but cannot do tomorrow... 
00:38 <Proquar> although, how long do you think the session will go for?
00:46 <Brunius> Until people are sick of it
00:51 <Brunius> Usually about 5 hours
01:00 <Brunius> Sometimes with a break
01:02 <Proquar> tempting... 
01:11 <Proquar> may have to join in second session, if possible
01:17 <Spaceshot_tm2> we did a really short one in like 4hrs
01:25 <Brunius> FS3
01:27 <Ballig> Proquar: doesn't have to be tomorrow
01:36 <Ballig> just make a character, play when you can
01:48 <Spaceshot_tm2> can be whenever there are peeps to play, someone to DM
02:05 <Ballig> you can play once a month if that's all your schedule allows
02:09 <Ballig> and it doesn't inconvenience anyone
02:16 <Brunius> Gotta go yo
02:17 <Ballig> (unless you agree to play at a time and then don't show up, but that's obvious)
02:18 <Brunius> Later
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02:45 <Proquar> My shrink says I need more stability in my life - so I may yet get to sign up to another campaign - if I 'obey'  :p
03:12 <Proquar> i don't think i've ever done that...  that was lucianus' specialty, if i recall
03:12 <Avatar> you only play one or two sessions at a time with PFS
03:25 <Avatar> it's not like WLD or LSK where you have to play every week for months
03:44 <Avatar> you play a 'scenario' where you get a mission to complete, and then it's over, you get 1 exp
03:47 <Avatar> every 3 exp you level up
03:55 <Avatar> the party changes with whoever's available to play
04:09 <Spaceshot_tm2> I think I remember lucianus
04:10 <Avatar> mekkis introduced us a while ago and now we are all addicts
04:19 <Avatar> you will become one also
04:24 <Proquar> :)
04:47 <Spaceshot_tm2> Proquar: now I remember the american, supreme pizza aka MagusSupreme
04:59 <Spaceshot_tm2> I think that's who you're talking about
05:00 <Ballig> Lucianus was also American
05:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> yea that too
05:17 <Spaceshot_tm2> maybe we were thinking of 2 different yankees
05:47 <Proquar> i didn't meet magussupreme
05:56 <Proquar> lucianus... killer funny guy
06:10 <Proquar> funny - weird, not funny - comedian
06:28 <tristen> heya lads
06:37 <tristen> 10.30 tomoz?
06:39 <Avatar> sup tristen
06:40 <Avatar> YEP
06:46 <Spaceshot_tm2> heh
06:48 <tristen> SHIT YEAH
06:53 <Spaceshot_tm2> also proquar, quacks are overrated
06:58 <tristen> ok i'll be there
07:02 <tristen> cya then
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07:15 <Avatar> proquar roll up a character and just find a timeslot to play whenever you want
07:17 <Proquar> mine's all right
07:23 <Spaceshot_tm2> I went to a free one
07:35 <Spaceshot_tm2> and I got given a guy (asked for a chic, she was sick, told me to come in anyway and got one)
07:37 <Ballig> I'm sure  proquar would be able to use a pregen
07:45 <Proquar> ack!
07:47 <Avatar> yeah you can use a pregen if you want I guess
07:48 <Spaceshot_tm2> and after 3 sessions, all he said about me is that I have dysthemia
07:53 <Avatar> I thought you might be above pregens though
07:58 <Avatar> like moi
08:11 <Avatar> but unlike ballig
08:21 <Ballig> it would take more than 3 sessions to do up all the diagnostic documentation
08:22 <Proquar> avatar, that made me giggle
08:32 <Ballig> I have two pregens, they're awesome
09:39 <Ballig> you can't argue that Bobbob isn't awesome
09:51 <Avatar> yeah because of the mount/lance build
09:55 <Proquar> spaceshot: i said 'shrink', but i should have said 'psychologist'... the last psychiatrist i saw told my hubby that i had 'spitting the dummy disorder'... sort of wish he'd called it 'dysthemia', but he was wrong on both counts ;)
09:57 <Avatar> any character will be awesome with that build
10:00 <Ballig> it doesn't matter the reason
10:03 <Ballig> point is he was a pregen and he rocks
10:04 <Avatar> oh it matters
10:34 <Ballig> you can't be like "yeah, okay, he's good but only because of the build"
10:38 <Ballig> the build is what makes something good
10:51 <Ballig> you're the one arguing that you should build a character from scratch to make sure it's awesome
11:05 <Mekkis> Proquar !
11:10 <Mekkis> how have you been?
11:16 <Proquar> MEKKIS~
11:24 <Proquar> missed you, how's it going?
11:27 <Proquar> i feel better now
11:28 <Proquar> :D
11:29 <Mekkis> pretty good
11:31 <Mekkis> ummm
11:33 <Mekkis> graduated
11:38 <Proquar> wow!
11:39 <Mekkis> been working for 18 months
11:41 <Proquar> cooooooll!
11:46 <Proquar> so what do you do now?
12:00 <Mekkis> been offered VC of Queensland...
12:01 <Mekkis> :S
12:10 <Mekkis> Software engineering
12:39 <Mekkis> what have you been up to?
12:46 <Mekkis> got into Office yet?
13:25 <Proquar> nah
13:29 <Proquar> got disillusioned
13:30 <Proquar> ;)
13:57 <Mekkis> pity
14:31 <Mekkis> now you can't annoy Ballig from an official position :)
14:32 <Avatar> Ballig: the build is broken
14:51 <Ballig> you've argued that before, and lost
14:57 <Avatar> I don't think so
15:02 <Ballig> Mekkis: has he?
15:08 <Proquar> what's a VC of Qld?
15:10 <Ballig> Mekkis: he's talking about lance+charge being broken
15:19 <Avatar> he's a convenient person to ask, since he's got a character with the same build
15:28 <Ballig> he will also remember whether you've argued it and lost before
15:29 <Mekkis> supposedly in charge of PFS in Queensland
15:38 <Avatar> that doesn't change the bias
15:40 <Ballig> whereas you prefer to reject our reality and substitute your own
15:40 <Ballig> :p
15:47 <Mekkis> Avatar thinks that anything that does more than 20 damage is broken
15:53 <Proquar> pathfinder?
15:58 <Avatar> what else does more than 20 damage
16:00 <Avatar> yeah
16:05 <Mekkis> regardless of level
16:13 <Avatar> Proquar: ballig does 3d6+30 per charge with his mount/lance
16:19 <Mekkis> yeah
16:22 <Avatar> I think mekkis does more
16:24 <Mekkis> Pathfinder Society
16:32 <Mekkis> 3d6+39
16:36 <Avatar> this is the kind of build you can have at level 1
16:39 <Proquar> you'd get paid to do D&D stuff?
16:42 <Proquar> awesome!
16:42 <Avatar> you just need a mount and a lance
16:50 <Ballig> how much can a fireball do
16:51 <Avatar> mekkis' build also has a flying mount
16:58 * Proquar ponders the situation
16:59 <Avatar> you don't get fireball until level 5
17:04 <Proquar> where's the story in that?
17:08 <Avatar> and even then, that's average damage of 25
17:08 * Proquar winks
17:11 <Ballig> 5d6 to one to 20 opponents
17:16 <Avatar> at level 5
17:18 <Avatar> that's fine
17:19 <Ballig> yes
17:21 <Ballig> I'm level 5
17:24 <Mekkis> Avatar, crit with scorching ray does that
17:26 <Mekkis> for instance
17:26 <Avatar> reflex save
17:31 <Ballig> AC
17:40 <Mekkis> two flaming spheres
17:46 * Proquar probably hasn't missed *this* banter
17:51 <Avatar> that's a crit man
17:53 <Avatar> crits don't count
17:58 <Mekkis> two flaming spheres
18:02 <Avatar> you do that every turn or every other turn
18:17 <Mekkis> what
18:17 <Ballig> do a fireball at level 5 to two opponents (very easy, not unreasonable)
18:22 <Ballig> and you do the same damage I do with a lance
18:23 <Avatar> do flaming spheres have reflex half
18:26 <Mekkis> turn 1: cast flaming sphere
18:34 <Mekkis> they have reflex negates
18:35 <Ballig> you can't say "oh, it has a reflex save, so it doesn't count"
18:40 <Ballig> charge has an attack roll and AC
18:43 <Mekkis> lance has AC negates
18:44 <Mekkis> so?
18:45 <Avatar> half damage on the save 
18:50 <Ballig> exactly
18:52 <Ballig> you still do half damage
18:55 <Ballig> if we don't make the AC, we do /no/ damage
19:00 <Spaceshot_tm2> proquar: I do have total apathy to life and anything I want to do, but I don't believe I have lazy as fuck depression
19:33 <Avatar> your attack bonus vs their AC is always going to be much harder to hide from than your spell save DC vs their reflex save
19:37 <Ballig> also, a wizard can do his from the relative safety of the back lines
19:43 <Ballig> someone using a lance has to actually be in the thick of battle
19:57 <Ballig> it's exactly the same Avatar
20:07 <Avatar> someone with a lance will be wearing armour anyway, wizards can't
20:08 <Ballig> it's easy to have a DC 20 on a fireball at 5th level
20:16 <Ballig> you can't expect to save unless your reflex is +10
20:18 <Ballig> is your reflex +10?
20:20 <Ballig> at level 5?
20:24 <Mekkis> Avatar, make a will save, DC21
20:31 <Avatar> !throw 1d20+3
20:32 <diebot> Avatar, 1d20+3: [1d20=11] 14
20:39 <Ballig> Avatar: you're using the strawman fallacy here
20:45 <Mekkis> you're lying on the ground, laughing
20:47 <Avatar> what is the strawman fallacy
20:49 <Mekkis> for 5 rounds
20:55 Sachiru ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
21:02 <Ballig> you're turning the argument around to focus on something else ('but that has a reflex save! and the AC is easy to hit!') to pretend that you've argued successfully
21:08 <Ballig> but it's a fallacy
21:24 <Avatar> why is that a fallacy
21:30 <Ballig> I showed you the post less than a week ago
21:34 <Ballig> with all the argument logical fallacies
21:39 <Ballig> the one you're using is the strawman
21:55 <Avatar> sorry I didn't memorise the definitions
22:16 <Avatar> if you don't want to look at saves or AC, it still comes back to average damage
22:20 <Avatar> 5d6 and 3d6+30
22:21 <Ballig> right
22:26 <Ballig> but the 5d6 is an AOE
22:27 <Avatar> the +30 is guaranteed damage and 5d6 is 25 average
22:28 * Mort likes hiding
22:32 <Ballig> against potentially a large number of opponents
22:45 <Avatar> potentially your own party too
22:52 <Mekkis> Avatar, why are you even comparing it to fireball?
22:53 <Ballig> right, but this is just an example
23:00 <Avatar> i didn't bring up fireball
23:01 <Ballig> take lightning bolt as your example if you want to argue "but you can hit your own party!"
23:05 <Proquar> hey mort
23:13 <Ballig> Mekkis: I am, to give him an example of reasonable damage that I know he can understand
23:27 <Mekkis> a third level wizard can cast Hideous Laughter, and if the victim fails their will save, they're out of it. Totally.
23:29 <Ballig> you have to give him something he can compare almost precisely, or else he will use the strawman
23:35 <Ballig> and start pointing out irrelevant th ings to say that it doesn't count
23:45 <Ballig> yeah he won't listen to that because there's no damage involved
23:52 * Spaceshot_tm2 wants to find additional non-dnd arguing channel sometimes :P
23:54 <Avatar> han gon
24:14 <Avatar> when you bring up things like hideous laughter and fireball, you have to consider that they're made against saves instead of AC, which are much lower and harder to save against
24:23 <Ballig> uh
24:29 <Ballig> that's an argument in our favour
25:02 <Avatar> even if you save against fireball
25:06 <Avatar> and you do average 25 damage
25:09 <Avatar> you still do more than that at level 1
25:26 <Ballig> did you see what damage I did at level 1
25:30 <Ballig> I did almost nothing
25:38 <Avatar> where is your damage coming from
25:40 <Avatar> maybe I am missing something
25:52 <Ballig> spirited charge, power attack, mostly
26:24 <Mekkis> Avatar, let's look at a CR7 creature...
26:31 <Ballig> so your argument has changed from "that build is clearly overpowered" to "that build does more damage at level 1 than a wizard"?
26:37 <Avatar> there are no CR 7 creatures at early levels
26:42 <Mekkis> ummm
26:45 <Avatar> I'm sure mount/lance is viable at higher levels
26:47 <Mekkis> you've DMed haven't you?
26:47 <Ballig> so we're only arguing early levels now?
26:52 <Mekkis> haven'
26:57 <Avatar> yes
27:11 <Mekkis> t you noticed that for (say) tier 1-2, EVERY encounter is EL3 or EL4?
27:24 <Ballig> he's not talking level 5
27:26 <Ballig> he's talking level 1 now
27:30 <Ballig> because he lost the level 5 argument
27:35 <Avatar> are you talking EL or CR 
27:35 <Ballig> so he's re-framing the issue
27:46 <Mekkis> for a single-monster encounter, EL = CR
27:49 <Ballig> EL and CR are the same thing
27:50 <Avatar> you brought up the level 5 argument
27:52 <Ballig> but EL is for the encounter
27:56 <Ballig> yeah, and I won the level 5 argument
27:59 <Ballig> so now you're re-framing the issue
28:01 <Mekkis> for a multiple-monster encounter, the fireball's more effective
28:07 <Avatar> I'm re-framing it because that wasn't the issue
28:13 <Ballig> you said it was overpowered
28:15 <Ballig> and that I do too much damage
28:17 <Ballig> I'm level 5
28:25 <Ballig> by implication, that was the issue
28:32 <Ballig> after losing the level 5 point, you re-framed to level 1
28:40 <Avatar> by implication, you've been doing that damage well before level 5
28:41 <Mekkis> IIRC, at level 1, Grolschmir did a fair amount of damage
28:52 <Avatar> how much damage did you do at level 1
29:00 <Ballig> me? like 1d6+2
29:03 <Ballig> when I hit
29:07 <Avatar> impossible
29:09 * Mort bites
29:10 <Ballig> okay
29:14 <Mekkis> 16 strength, lance, power attack...
29:27 <Mekkis> 1d6+7
29:30 <Ballig> my character had 14 strength
29:42 <Mekkis> so 2d6+14 damagew
30:09 <Ballig> and again, Avatar, this is all /if/ you can charge, and a lot of the time you can't
30:13 <Ballig> you've seen the issues I've had with charging
30:19 <Ballig> I've gone entire scenarios where I haven't been able to get a single charge in
30:28 <Avatar> mounted combat triples damage doesn't it?
30:33 <Ballig> only with spirited charge
30:40 <Ballig> which you won't have at level 1
30:44 <Avatar> unless you're human
30:50 <Ballig> pretty sure you can't have it at level 1
31:01 <Ballig> maybe with a fighter bonus feat, not sure, I'd have to check the pre-reqs
31:35 <Ballig> it has 2 feats as a pre-req
31:42 <Ballig> so you'd have to be a human fighter
32:25 <Avatar> yeah
32:31 <Mekkis> ok
32:46 <Mekkis> a CR5 Winter Wolf has 57 HP, AC17 and a will save of +3
33:21 <Avatar> what scenario has a CR5 winter wolf at tier 1-2
33:37 <Ballig> Mekkis: told you he was re-framing
33:45 <Avatar> I didn't bring up a CR5 winter wolf
33:50 <Avatar> you're re-framing
33:52 <Ballig> you brought up my character doing too much damage
33:55 <Ballig> my character is level 5
33:56 <Ballig> that was the issue
33:57 <Ballig> you re-framed
33:58 <Avatar> and there's nothing wrong re-framing to make a point 
34:02 <Ballig> yes there is
34:05 <Avatar> no there isn't
34:09 <Avatar> you need to use examples sometimes
34:16 <Ballig> if you re-frame an argument, you're doing it because you can't win on the original issue
34:21 <Ballig> so you need to change the issue to try and win on another one
34:26 <Avatar> I think you had the original issue wrong in your head
34:32 <Ballig> yeah, use examples, go ahead
34:45 <Ballig> but when someone uses an example and you're like "but that's level FIVE, I'm talking level ONE"
34:51 <Ballig> then you're re-framing the issue so that you can IGNORE someone else's examples
35:04 <Avatar> or that the issue in your head was wrong
35:11 <Ballig> you were quite clear about it
35:23 <Avatar> obviously not if you thought at level 5 it was overpowered
35:24 <Ballig> you thought that the build was too powerful, that any character could be powerful with it, and you were looking at my character specifically
35:30 <Ballig> so I was comparing my character to a wizard of the same level
35:32 <Ballig> in terms of power
35:44 <Ballig> then you decided no, let's not do that, let's compare level 1 characters
35:58 <Avatar> you've had 3d6+30 since what, level 3
36:06 <Avatar> a wizard can cast scorched ray at level 3
36:08 <Ballig> level 4 I think
36:08 <Avatar> 4d6
36:11 <Ballig> I had to take a level of fighter
36:15 <Ballig> I took three levels of cavalier before taking it
36:19 <Spaceshot_tm2> just curious, I'm not going to look through the logs, how do you get +30?
36:22 <Avatar> you can take a third feat at level 3
36:32 <Ballig> Spaceshot_tm2: my regular damage is 1d6+10
36:41 <Ballig> when you charge with a lance you double that, with spirited charge it's 3x
36:43 <Avatar> spirited charge triples damage with a lance while you're mounted
36:50 <Ballig> Avatar: yes, I had to be level four
36:55 <Ballig> because I was a pregen, I couldn't optimise remember?
37:07 <Avatar> the build is broken from level 3 if you're not human
37:28 <Avatar> 4d6 average is about 12 damage
37:30 <Mekkis> if you're human, it's 3d8+40 something
37:37 <Spaceshot_tm2> +10?
37:48 <Spaceshot_tm2> isn't str 1.5x for 2h?
37:54 <Ballig> yes
38:04 <Ballig> 2 strength, 1.5x for 2handing, power attack
38:10 <Spaceshot_tm2> oh powerattack
38:12 <Mekkis> human gets more strength
38:14 <Spaceshot_tm2> so with average to hit
39:19 <Spaceshot_tm2> what's your to hit with this charge btw?
39:31 <Ballig> are we talking this level or at level 1?
39:37 <Spaceshot_tm2> I'm talking this
39:39 <Avatar> the build drops to about +12 without power attack
39:40 <Spaceshot_tm2> whatever
39:42 <Ballig> +14
39:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> but you have to charge at least 30ft right?
39:58 <Ballig> 10 feet
40:02 <Mekkis> Grolshmir had a higher to-hit at first level, because of the Heirloom Weapon rules
40:09 <Ballig> 5 feet of reach, so I need to be at least 15 feet from something
40:19 <Ballig> with a straight line, no difficult terrain, etc
40:29 <Spaceshot_tm2> as an openner, or something that isn't constantly done
40:32 <Avatar> can't take the heirloom weapon rules into account here
40:35 <Ballig> it's a great opener
40:37 <Spaceshot_tm2> it's roughly correct damage
40:41 <Ballig> it's really hard to use more than once an encounter
40:54 <Ballig> I'm trying to find a way, but it's almost impossible even with ride-by-attack
40:59 <Ballig> because you just never have the room
41:44 <Ballig> so although Avatar tries to argue that it's 3d6+30 every attack, it's really not
41:55 <Avatar> for a fighter it is
42:04 <Ballig> at best I can kill something right at the start of the round, so we have to fight one less creature
42:13 <Avatar> wait, with rideby
42:15 <Ballig> assuming I am in the right position from the start, and assuming I hit
42:17 <Spaceshot_tm2> it isn't every attack at level 5
42:32 <Ballig> er, round == encounter
42:36 <Mekkis> it also means that enemies with good tactics can really fuck him up
42:42 <Avatar> the lance has 10ft reach 
42:53 <Ballig> 5 feet reach
42:56 <Ballig> or uh, reach
42:58 <Ballig> whatever you call it
43:05 <Avatar> yeah sorry 5ft reach
43:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> avatar; compare it to a level 5 player using scortching ray
43:07 <Avatar> hits over 10ft
43:09 <Spaceshot_tm2> optimised
43:10 <Ballig> Avatar: you have to charge to get the damage
43:24 <Ballig> you can usually do that once per encounter
43:27 <Ballig> unless you get really lucky
43:28 <Avatar> optimised how
43:39 <Spaceshot_tm2> empower is only +1lvl right?
43:50 <Ballig> think it's more than that
44:14 <Mekkis> +2
44:26 <Mekkis> Avatar, optimised by a wizard
44:31 <Mekkis> with bonded item (wand)
44:34 <Avatar> yeah using what
44:42 <Mekkis> crafted to be scorching ray (CL7)
44:54 <Mekkis> feel like 8d6 damage?
45:03 <Avatar> how does that work
45:10 <Mekkis> it's PFS legal
45:16 <Avatar> but what is the build
45:17 <Mekkis> (hell, Mytiazair did it)
45:29 <Ballig> the build is "wizard"
45:31 <Mekkis> wizard 5
45:39 <Ballig> I think you need to stop thinking about characters as being builds
45:40 <Avatar> you just need to be a wizard?
45:47 <Mekkis> ja
45:49 <Ballig> with a bonded wand
45:50 <Avatar> with scorching ray and a bonded wand?
45:51 <Mekkis> bonded item wand is good
46:10 <Mekkis> sure, it's about 100gp per shot
46:19 <Mekkis> but realistically, how many shots are you going to make?
46:25 <Avatar> cmon man
46:42 <Avatar> vs the mount/lance build, it's 100gp vs 0gp
46:45 <Mekkis> no
46:48 <Mekkis> it's not 0GP
46:53 <Mekkis> you want a +2 lance?
46:56 <Mekkis> that's 8000gp
47:05 <Avatar> you don't need a +2 lance
47:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> most combat, or at least combat damage oriented builds usually have one big burst
47:07 <Avatar> use a regular lance
47:12 <Mekkis> and you think you're going to get 80 hits from it?
47:17 <Ballig> I would do less damage without a magic lance
47:23 <Avatar> not significantly less
47:33 <Ballig> when you are talking triple for every point, yes
47:34 <Ballig> it's less
47:49 <Avatar> triple for every 1 point is only 3 points
47:56 <Ballig> that's right, have a gold star
48:02 <Avatar> that's not much is my point
48:18 <Ballig> so what DOES add up? if +1 is nothing, and +2 is insignificant, and +3 isn't much?
48:20 <Ballig> what bonuses DO you like?
48:42 <Mekkis> he thinks 20 damage is broken
48:48 <Ballig> it's no reason you think 3d6+30 is so much damage, all you see is the +30 and you ignore everything that gets to it
48:50 <Ballig> as being "not much"
48:52 <Avatar> you're talking about +30 vs +27
48:57 <Avatar> you will still probably instakill most creatures
49:08 <Avatar> as long as you hit their AC with their 10 bonus
49:12 <Ballig> it's actually +24 if you're comparing a +2 lance to a regular lance
49:17 <Ballig> so that's 6 less damage
49:20 * Proquar toddles off
49:23 Proquar has quit (Client exited)
49:27 <Avatar> you would still usually instakill even then
49:33 <Avatar> I mean that's how powerful it is
49:35 <Ballig> once an encounter
49:44 <Avatar> once is enough
49:50 <Ballig> wizards can do as much if not more
49:56 <Avatar> and with rideby attack, it's not once 
50:09 <Ballig> I've never, ever been able to use ride-by attack to set me up for a second ch arge
50:14 <Mekkis> Avatar, when's the last time you've seen rideby attack in action like that?
50:15 <Avatar> why not
50:17 <Ballig> I'm sure it's possible, but I have not once come into an encounter where it was possible
50:22 <Spaceshot_tm2> ballig, what is your damage without the charge?
50:23 <Ballig> you  never have enough room
50:26 <Ballig> you're lucky to be able to charge
50:33 <Ballig> Spaceshot_tm2: 1d6+10
50:49 <Avatar> it relies on the charge spaceshot
50:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> so lets say a battle lasts 5 rounds
50:58 <Spaceshot_tm2> all hits
51:00 <Spaceshot_tm2> no crits
51:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> first round is 5d6+30
51:16 <Ballig> 3d6
51:17 <Mekkis> keep in mind that an effective wizard isn't doing damage
51:20 <Spaceshot_tm2> sorry
51:24 <Spaceshot_tm2> 3d6
51:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> mekkis: an effective wizard should have a spell or 2 to snipe a opposing caster who is buffing their team and your other teammates can't get to
52:06 <Mekkis> no
52:12 <Spaceshot_tm2> so 3d6+30, then 4x1d6+10
52:15 <Mekkis> that's what you get your friendly cavalier to do
52:29 <Spaceshot_tm2> mekkis: depends on the group layout yes
52:33 <Ballig> that's the enemy he targets on his opening charge
52:33 <Ballig> :p
52:46 <Spaceshot_tm2> so that turns into 7d6+70
53:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> that's quite the norm for 5 rounds
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53:38 <Spaceshot_tm2> look at that compared to a level 5 not extremely optimised rogue
53:40 <Mekkis> Avatar, how do you stop an enemy wizard?
53:43 <Spaceshot_tm2> +2str
54:20 <Avatar> depends what he's doing
54:29 <Avatar> doesn't empower spell turn 4d6 into 6d6
54:51 <Mekkis> it's not as easy as saying "I ready my longspear to stab the crap out of the horse when he charges"
55:07 <Ballig> yeah
55:12 <Ballig> you have to get to it first
55:14 <Avatar> mounted combat regularly negates hits to the mount
55:30 <Ballig> I think I've done it once
55:31 <Mekkis> so stab the rider instead?
55:46 <Avatar> how much damage is a longspear going to do
55:53 <Ballig> a lot when braced against a charge
55:57 <Avatar> how much
56:08 <Ballig> potentially as much as a lance on a charge
56:08 <Mekkis> 2d8+10 is easy
56:23 <Avatar> does bracing double damage?
56:26 <Mekkis> yes
56:32 <Avatar> okay, so 2d8+10
56:39 <Avatar> vs 3d8+24 ?
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56:57 <Mekkis> what's your HP, Ballig?
57:00 <Ballig> it's never a straight "this versus this"
57:04 <Ballig> Mekkis: 52
57:18 <Ballig> you can't compare one thing to one other thing and say "this has more numbers, this is more powerful"
57:22 <Mekkis> so if there are two of them, you're dead
57:28 <Avatar> what am I missing
57:42 <Ballig> you're missing the big picture
57:46 <Ballig> and you always do
57:46 <Avatar> yes, which is what
57:58 <Ballig> er, are you looking for me to sum up the big picture in a few words?
58:01 <Ballig> that's not how big pictures work
58:04 <Mekkis> a combat isn't about damage to a single target
58:09 <Avatar> we're talking about a specific example here
58:16 <Ballig> it's not about "he can do more damage than I can in this one round, therefore he's more powerful"
58:17 <Avatar> you're saying the numbers comparison doesn't work, and I'm asking why
58:20 <Ballig> it's about combat effectiveness in general
58:34 <Ballig> we're not talking about a specific example here
58:36 <Ballig> that's my entire point
58:49 <Avatar> that seems like a way to bring about a stalemate
58:50 <Ballig> you can't bring it all down to a one "this attack versus this attack" comparison
59:13 <Mekkis> that being said Avatar, I am willing to field you several encounters for you to test a party makeup against
59:20 <Mekkis> if you want to prove a point
59:27 <Ballig> I mean straight away if you do a fireball opener against four opponents (very realistic in PFS), you are doing more damage than I will for the entire encounter
59:33 <Avatar> I'd rather play a scenario than test it 
59:58 <Mekkis> then don't start making conjecture
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00:24 <Avatar> you can test it in a game
00:30 <Avatar> in real scenarios, and get more realistic results
00:52 <Mekkis> no
00:56 <Ballig> you can't do a proper analysis, a proper scientific result
00:59 <Ballig> in a scenario
01:01 <Avatar> what other low level builds have you seen have similar combat effectiveness
01:04 <Ballig> because you don't have a control group
01:09 <Mekkis> the only way to test it is to only change certain parameters
01:17 <Ballig> why are you again framing it as low level
01:19 <Avatar> I don't mean one scenario
01:21 <Avatar> I mean many
01:28 <Ballig> so are you telling me that, right now, my build is no longer overpowered?
01:30 <Avatar> overall you will get an idea
01:36 <Avatar> no?
01:40 <Mekkis> "an idea" isn't what you're after
01:42 <Ballig> so you're saying the build is still overpowered at level 5?
01:45 <Ballig> then stop talking "at low level"
02:00 <Avatar> the higher the level you get, the less effective it will be obviously
02:12 <Avatar> I don't know what happens when you get to level 11 with it
02:19 <Avatar> does it become useless?
02:25 <Ballig> shrug?
02:32 <Avatar> mekkis you might know
02:45 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
03:14 <Mekkis> I've only played two scenarios at 10-11
03:30 <Mekkis> and I'm not sure how effective a charger would have been in either of them
03:38 <Ballig> and Avatar, honestly, you seem like you're judging me on my character
03:48 <Ballig> but you need to understand that I practically chose the character at random
03:48 <Avatar> I'm judging the build
03:59 <Ballig> you guys were busting to play PFS, and I said "oh, I guess I'll play, I'll just use a pregen"
04:10 <Mekkis> I'd rather you were more like John
04:26 <Mekkis> "Your build is all about exploiting shorties, you're broken"
04:34 <Avatar> haha
04:42 <Ballig> it was potluck that I chose a gnome
04:57 <Ballig> I can only imagine the frustration I'd have being large in all encounters
05:11 <Ballig> it would make cavalier basically impossible to play
05:21 <Avatar> yeah the build probably doesn't work nearly as well if you're medium
05:33 <Ballig> it wouldn't work at all, I imagine
05:51 <Avatar> in encounters with only a few mobs, it would be significant
06:05 <Ballig> in any indoor encounter it would be significant
06:13 <Avatar> yeah
06:32 <Ballig> it's already significant enough at small
06:38 <Avatar> I'm still a bit ho hum about bringing large mounts into hostile buildings
06:47 <Avatar> in friendly buildings it's impolite
06:49 <Ballig> walls and small rooms and all sorts of shit in between
07:06 <Avatar> but who cares if you're walking into the place you're meant to attack, you only have to worry about there being stuff you couldn't normally get over
08:02 <Ballig> yeah that's just ransacking
08:14 <Ballig> maybe I should take a level of druid
08:32 <Mekkis> nope
08:34 <Mekkis> rebuild
08:39 <Mekkis> base it on Summoner !
08:43 <Ballig> ha
08:45 <Ballig> synthesist!
08:49 <Mekkis> or that
08:53 <Mekkis> then you get pounce
09:24 <Ballig> pounce and dual-wield
09:32 <Mekkis> dual?
09:40 <Mekkis> don't you mean 8-wield
09:43 <Ballig> haha
09:45 <Mekkis> oct-wield
10:09 <Avatar> make a character called Octowield
10:26 <Mekkis> no
10:27 <Ballig> Avatar: a level 5 rogue can get 6d6 not including the damage from his weapon attack
10:30 <Mekkis> I already made one
10:30 <Ballig> is that overpowered
10:35 <Mekkis> called Blitzstriek
10:42 <Mekkis> !findchar Blitzstriek
10:46 <diebot> Mekkis, Character: Blitzstriek, number: ( http://dnd.ballig.net/viewchar.php5?char= )
11:13 <Avatar> that's 18 average damage
11:16 <Ballig> a level 1 rogue can get 2d6 not including weapon damage
11:17 <Mekkis> !findchar Blitzstreik
11:18 <diebot> Mekkis, Character: Blitzstreik, number: 220( http://dnd.ballig.net/viewchar.php5?char=220 )
11:30 <Avatar> your level 5 guy does 30 guaranteed damage, not including weapon damage
11:36 <Ballig> it's actually average 21
11:39 <Ballig> average on a d6 is 3.5, not 3
11:43 <Spaceshot_tm2> a vivisectionist alchemist can get way more damage than ballig
11:45 <Spaceshot_tm2> if done right
11:47 <Ballig> and this rogue can do it every round
11:51 <Ballig> not just on the opening shot
12:04 <Avatar> they can do it every round once they're flanking and if they can stay flanking
12:08 <Avatar> that's similarly situational
12:13 <Ballig> flanking is much, much easier than charging
12:18 <Ballig> like 20 times easier
12:24 <Spaceshot_tm2> how is charging min 15ft as easy as flanking?
12:24 <Avatar> I don't know about that
12:25 <Mekkis> unless their wizard kindly casts Glitterdust
12:28 <Ballig> I know about that
12:36 <Spaceshot_tm2> if you get a reach weapon, you get even more flanking bullshitness
12:37 <Avatar> when did you last play a rogue
12:41 <Mekkis> tell me, is there any spell that a wizard can cast that would make charging easier?
12:53 <Ballig> a wizard can also cast summon monster
12:56 <Avatar> teleport? :P
13:25 <Mekkis> (the whole point of Mrivan was to ensure that Lupton got sneak attack)
13:31 <Ballig> not only do the monsters give immediate flanking in the next round, you now have a bunch of creatures running around making it 5 times easier to get flank bonuses
14:06 <Mekkis> I'd play a rogue if I could count on a friendly wizard helping me
14:13 <Ballig> yeah, easy
14:15 <Avatar> if you're talking about distracting a mob with other creatures, you could do the same to get away for another charge in the next round
14:24 <Avatar> and that's assuming you're not using rideby
14:26 <Ballig> it's not about distracting
14:37 <Ballig> distracting relies on the GM deciding "he'll attack that monster and ignore his AOO from you for some reason"
14:43 <Ballig> summon monster for flank is immediate and in the rules
14:48 <Ballig> dude, I've told you
14:53 <Ballig> you can't USE rideby to get set up for another charge
14:57 <Ballig> I've never been able to do it
15:05 <Ballig> the only time I could ever have done it was the scenario we just finished
15:15 <Ballig> and it wasn't worthwhile
17:22 <Spaceshot_tm2> mekkis: did you ever say anything about the number I put up in context with you asking a price?
17:29 <Mekkis> no
17:32 <Mekkis> I'm still thinking
17:41 <Spaceshot_tm2> mmk, also, it's not going to be that high
18:05 <Spaceshot_tm2> if you want everything, it'd be more like 1/3-2/3s
18:56 <Spaceshot_tm2> that's just the elves, I've also got some jousting knights
19:05 <Mekkis> hmm
19:05 <Spaceshot_tm2> men at arms, beastmen
21:08 <Ballig> hmmm
22:29 <Avatar> how is it possible for kangaroo meat to be half the price of lamb
22:44 <Mekkis> no idea
22:49 <Spaceshot_tm2> kangaroos are less scarce
22:54 <Avatar> are they?
23:01 <Mekkis> they seem to sell kangaroo steak at the same price as sirloin
23:12 <Avatar> I pay $12 for lamb leg steak, $5 for kangaroo
23:13 <Ballig> it depends where you are
23:19 <Mekkis> Avatar, just avoid the mince
23:23 <Ballig> also kangaroo is less desirable
23:40 <Avatar> I have no idea what it tastes like
23:43 <Mekkis> I like kangaroo meat
23:46 <Avatar> maybe in a few minutes I will know why it's cheaper
23:51 <Ballig> nah it's not bad
23:52 <Mekkis> just avoid the mince though, it's rather bad
24:00 <Avatar> I'm no fan of mince anyway
24:06 <Ballig> the mince is probably bad because kangaroo meat is lean
24:18 <Spaceshot_tm2> most non australians don't prefer kangaroo meat
25:11 <Mekkis> I buy the mini roasts and stir fry them
25:42 <Spaceshot_tm2> kangaroo sausages are either tasty or shit
25:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> depends on brand, and sometimes even just random
25:55 <Avatar> who of you are playing tomorrow morning?
26:07 <Spaceshot_tm2> if I doubtfully wake up in time
26:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> sure
26:13 <Ballig> I'll be here
26:18 <Avatar> 10.30 is later than usual
26:46 <Spaceshot_tm2> I think tristen said he would
26:47 <Avatar> and tristen said he'd be in
27:09 <Avatar> thelen has about a 65% chance of playing
27:26 <Ballig> I want to know what happened to Thawne
27:34 <Avatar> who
27:37 <Ballig> friend of Tristen
27:44 <Ballig> he was all gung-ho yesterday or the day before to play
30:08 <Avatar> this does not smell
30:10 <Avatar> good
30:55 <Ballig> it's always going to be weird because it's a new meat
32:14 <Avatar> it's actually really good
32:17 <Avatar> probably better than lamb
32:45 <Ballig> nothing is better than lamb
33:09 <Mekkis> who's running it tomorrow?
33:23 <Spaceshot_tm2> I've had some good pork ballig
33:24 <Avatar> oh uh
33:29 <Avatar> I was going to run frostfur
33:32 <Spaceshot_tm2> but in general lamb is better :O
33:34 <Spaceshot_tm2> :P*
33:41 <Avatar> I don't think anyone has a scenario prepped you haven't played mekkis
33:50 <Mekkis> I have one prepped
33:55 <Mekkis> that you haven't played
33:57 <Avatar> you can run one then if you want
34:05 <Mekkis> ok
34:14 <Avatar> if you show, we'll do yours, if not, we'll do mine
34:20 <Mekkis> good call
34:25 <Mekkis> I should be able to do it
34:44 <Mekkis> I'll be running it at the Botanical Gardens :)
34:59 <Ballig> why
35:27 <Mekkis> because I can
36:47 <Ballig> you can also play from in a sewer
36:48 <Ballig> but you don't
37:07 <Spaceshot_tm2> sewer has bad reception
37:51 <Ballig> are you telling me that Mekkis /couldn't/ play from in a sewer?
37:59 <Ballig> because I'm pretty sure he could, if he put his mind to it
38:11 <Spaceshot_tm2> not saying that
38:16 <Spaceshot_tm2> saying that it has bad reception
43:33 <Mekkis> hmmm
43:40 <Mekkis> any chance we can play a 5-9? :P
43:55 <Ballig> we have two level 5 characters
43:57 <Ballig> so unlikely
44:02 <Mekkis> I'll take that as a no
44:06 <Spaceshot_tm2> I think bobbob and cairo are the only 5ths
44:06 <Mekkis> I'm assuming 1-2
44:15 <Spaceshot_tm2> 3-4 is also doable
44:16 <Mekkis> has anyone played Decline of Glory
44:20 <Mekkis> #24
44:42 <Mekkis> 1-7, if you care
45:44 <Avatar> I'd still prefer to use Buck than Cairo, though Cairo's not out of the question anymore than Mellon is
46:17 <Ballig> doesn't ring a bell
46:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> have enough characters avatar?
47:08 <Ballig> you have to once you start GMing
47:17 <Ballig> because you will GM something you've already run, you need to make a character to apply the credit
47:30 <Ballig> then you play or GM first steps and need level one characters
48:00 <Spaceshot_tm2> yea, but he's got at least 4 :P
48:38 <Mekkis> don't mention character 10339-6
48:59 <Mekkis> I don't have name, race, class or faction
49:10 <Mekkis> but it has credit for First Steps 1, 2 and 3
49:12 <Spaceshot_tm2> :P
49:22 <Mekkis> 10339-7 has credit for First Steps 1 as well !
49:30 <Mekkis> and 3
49:40 <Spaceshot_tm2> heh
49:51 <Spaceshot_tm2> I'm thinking of making a vivisectionist alchemist
50:09 <Spaceshot_tm2> thinking duelwielding, but I want high str
52:08 <Spaceshot_tm2> btw, is vivisectionist alchemist the only archetype to give sneak attack like a rogue?
53:14 <Spaceshot_tm2> anywho, going now
53:36 <Ballig> haha, right after saying how a vivisectionist alchemist can be built to do a lot of damage
54:30 Spaceshot_tm2 has quit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
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