#d&d - 2012-01-05 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2012-01-05

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« 2012-01-04 2012-01-06 »
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33:14 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Sat 10am (new game/Avatar) | CoTE: Sun Jan 8th 10am || AEDT (UTC+11:00) | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://dnd.ballig.net/
33:14 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Tue Jan  3 23:33:05 2012
49:52 <MekkisScreen> Ballig: personally, I don't see any issue with allowing it, with damage as str / 2
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32:45 <Avatar> jesus, removing Cairo's con hit is only 2 prestige
32:52 <Avatar> that's a hell of a lot better than the 16 I thought it was
33:39 <Spaceshot> heh
40:31 <Spaceshot> since I can't seem to find where icechat leaves it's history, so can someone go through their history to find brunius' dropbox shadowrun link
47:09 <Avatar> when was it
47:12 <Avatar> that he said it
48:22 <Spaceshot> recently
48:31 <Spaceshot> it was about a day after all the shadowrun talk
53:12 <Avatar> I need a date to look at
54:20 <Spaceshot> ah you too
54:29 <Spaceshot> well I finnally found my logs
54:31 <Spaceshot> thanks though
00:36 <Spaceshot> found it http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22217817/Shadowrun.zip
07:47 <Avatar> what edition is that
22:14 <Spaceshot> 4th edition supposedly
29:06 <Avatar> I think I have a better version
29:26 <Avatar> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/738618/Shadowrun_4E_-_4th_Edition%28OEF%29.pdf
29:31 <Avatar> 62MB
33:35 <Spaceshot> it also has supplements, and is anniversary edition, which is what I have, and use, IRL
42:25 <Avatar> I've got an anniversary edition which is 55MB
42:46 <Avatar> and another which is 52MB
43:22 <Avatar> ah, sorry the 52 isn't anniversary
45:46 <Spaceshot> brunius' also has unwired, street magic, arsenal, runner's companion and augumentation
48:17 <Avatar> yeah I have like those and 20 others
48:42 <Avatar> I'm honestly not sure why, I'm pretty sure I wasn't that far into shadowrun
51:24 <Avatar> http://paizo.com/products/btpy8qgp?Wayfinder-6
51:25 <Avatar> free
51:43 <MekkisScreen> Avatar: how does 2 prestige remove Cairo's con hit?
51:45 <Avatar> not entirely sure how useful it is
52:58 <Spaceshot> avatar: I think you were downloading shit left right and centre last time
53:19 <Avatar> Restoration cures all temporary ability damage, and it restores all points permanently drained from a single ability score (your choice if more than one is drained). 
53:25 <Avatar> from: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/restoration
53:42 <Avatar> restoration is 2 PP
57:42 <Spaceshot> is restortation a level 3 or 4 spell?
59:12 <Avatar> 4
01:41 <Spaceshot> and how does lesser restortation work with ability drain?
02:09 <Avatar> it doesn't
02:17 <Avatar> it heals ability damage
02:35 <Spaceshot> and is it damage or drain?
03:05 <Avatar> drain
03:10 <Avatar> permanent con damage
03:52 <Spaceshot> what from?
04:06 <Avatar> a really nasty module
05:03 <Spaceshot> no I mean litterally what did it
05:16 <MekkisScreen> a lot of torture
05:16 <Avatar> I can't really tell you without spoiling it
05:24 <Avatar> yeah it was from being tortured
05:36 <MekkisScreen> and it's not damage, or drain
05:39 <MekkisScreen> it's loss
06:21 <Avatar> venture captain says it's permanent drain
06:43 <MekkisScreen> I'll ask at arcanacon
06:56 <MekkisScreen> you can get anyone to say what you want on the boards
07:16 <Spaceshot> you listen to VCs
07:28 <Avatar> +
07:28 <Avatar> Permanent is just a game term to distinguish between a temporary ability loss (damage, which comes back with rest), and permanent (drain, does not heal naturally).
07:29 <Avatar> Just like death being a "permanent" condition, the character is eligible to pay to have the CON loss restored following all the standard rules in the CRB.
08:10 <MekkisScreen> I listen to the local VC
08:30 <MekkisScreen> and even then, I accept that he's often incorrect with certain rulings
08:31 <Avatar> that was an answer to: ...if they are captured and tortured (or killed, Raised, and tortured) is the -1 Con that they get from that 'boon' a permanent, no way of getting that 1 Con back penalty? Or can they have Restoration cast on them for PA/gold to get it back, like the -2 Con you get from dying and being Raised?
09:03 <Spaceshot> how is it any different?
09:19 <Avatar> it doesn't make sense that it would be completely irreversible man
09:43 <Avatar> you can regenerate limbs, you can resurrect, and restoration exists for this exact purpose
09:46 <Avatar> like what is your argument here
10:12 <Avatar> that the words on the chroncile sheet don't specifically say "ability drain"
10:16 <Avatar> that's ludicrous
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14:50 <Ballig> Mekkis: my final point on the matter was allowing it but adding penalties to it
15:02 <Ballig> similar to going from light->one-handed, you're going up a further size category to two-handed
15:22 <Ballig> it's less a matter of how many arms do you have to physically make it possible, and more about how heavy are these weapons and are you trained to fight that way without them getting in the road
33:09 <Mekkis> I wouldn't agree with that: I think the existing penalties are bad enough
34:00 <Ballig> but from a non-balance point of view, and merely from an extrapolation of the rules, I see increasing penalties as the logical step
34:28 <Mekkis> I didn't think extrapolation was required
34:29 <Ballig> but it's silly to play it without something in the sourcebooks accounting for it
34:41 <Ballig> well, the current rules are silent on the issue of it
34:46 <Mekkis> the "Normal" section of the multiweapon fighting is pretty clear on it
34:59 <Ballig> that's for wielding more than 2 weapons
35:23 <Mekkis> not really...
35:46 <Mekkis> it specified that a multiarmed creature has one primary hand, and all the others are off-hands
36:09 <Ballig> how does using two off-hands to make an attack penalise you?
36:23 <Mekkis> -10
36:34 <Mekkis> it's an attack made with an off-had
36:40 <Mekkis> with off hands
36:59 <Ballig> but those rules assume a light weapon
36:59 <Mekkis> the fact that it's a two-handed weapon is why it takes two hands
37:14 <Ballig> or uh, one-handed
37:17 <Mekkis> no they don't: there are exceptions for light weapons
37:18 <Ballig> (with slightly less penalty for light)
37:23 <Ballig> but why aren't there further penalties for two-handed
37:55 <Mekkis> balance-wise: because losing out on an additional attack is penalty enough
38:27 <Mekkis> flavour-wise: because you're still holding the weapon in two hands...
38:36 <Mekkis> rules-wise: because it
38:40 <Mekkis> 's not really needed
39:22 <Ballig> so you'd say one 2-h weapon should get 1.5x strength and the other get .5x strength?
39:35 <Mekkis> I'd work with that, yeah
39:45 <Mekkis> first weapon takes a -6
39:48 <Mekkis> second takes a -10
40:16 <Ballig> can he use the TWF with it, or does he need multiweapon fighting to reduce the penalties
40:26 <Ballig> my instinct was MWF
40:35 <Mekkis> MWF would be required for that
40:41 <Ballig> which precludes it from PFS
41:05 <Mekkis> whether or not, In PFS, TWF /becomes/ MWF when one gets a third arm, is still up-in-the-air.
41:09 <Mekkis> so I wouldn't recommend it
41:43 <Ballig> I think he needs to wait until there is something in the sourcebooks that accounts for it
41:49 <Ballig> fairly explicitly
42:03 <Mekkis> I would allow it, without the TWF/MWF bit
42:17 <Ballig> yeah he wouldn't take it without that feat
42:19 <Ballig> I wouldn't either
42:52 <Ballig> it'd be funny if you could wield multiple shields
43:00 <Mekkis> can't you?
43:08 <Ballig> you can, but I don't think the bonuses stack
43:09 <Mekkis> I thought you could, but only got one shield bonus
43:11 <Ballig> because they're shield bonuses
43:30 <Ballig> they should make a multi-shield feat
43:48 <Ballig> we'll all take levels of alchemist to grow extra arms
46:26 <Mekkis>   Provided that a weapon is designed for more than two
46:26 <Mekkis> hands, each additional hand used increases the damage
46:26 <Mekkis> dealt with that weapon. Each hand used beyond the
46:26 <Mekkis> first adds 1/2 the wielder's Strength bonus to the
46:26 <Mekkis> damage. A creature wielding a Medium-size longsword
46:26 <Mekkis> with two hands adds 1 1/2 times its Strength bonus to
46:26 <Mekkis> the damage roll. A girallon wielding a Huge club with
46:26 <Mekkis> all four hands adds 2 1/2 times its Strength bonus to the
46:26 <Mekkis> damage roll.
46:45 <Ballig> he should just use the one weapon
46:48 <Ballig> and wield it with 4 hands
46:57 <Mekkis> (that's a 3.5ism though)
47:01 <Ballig> ah yeah
47:06 <Ballig> pathfinder doesn't do that?
47:22 <Mekkis> (it's how Blitzstreik gets his four to five digit damage)
47:27 <Mekkis> it's not specified
47:48 <Ballig> yeah I remember him abusing that :p
47:51 <Mekkis> spirited charge with an 8-handed lance
48:10 <Mekkis> with the boots that make the lance have a x4 crit
48:19 <Mekkis> and the spell that makes the first attack roll a natural 20
49:10 <Mekkis> (and the lance is blessed, so autoconfirm crit against an evil creature)
49:34 <Ballig> a great example of why all the extra supplements made the game almost impossible because all rules that came before it couldn't possibly account for them
49:56 <Mekkis> it's a better example of why Savage Species is broken
50:13 <Mekkis> (that character was based off the three-book rule)
59:45 <Mekkis> It's a pity that you stopped running QQ: I had another concept I wanted to try out
59:54 <Ballig> I bet you did :p
05:16 <Mekkis> any chance I can convince you to run one?
07:49 <Ballig> perhaps if we had people interested
08:51 <Mekkis> what scenario did I run last Monday?
09:30 <Ballig> the one with Railford
09:48 <Mekkis> Decline of Glory
28:54 <Ballig> whose decline is it
31:16 <Mekkis> Glory's
34:06 <Ballig> sounds obscene
01:50 <Avatar> haha
07:12 <Avatar> what did you guy's think the penalties should be for the two weapon 4 handed thing?
07:19 <Avatar> guys*
07:26 <Mekkis> -6/-10
08:14 <Ballig> Mekkis says -6/-10 with half strength to damage on the second weapon (instead of 1.5x strength which is normal for two hands)
08:42 <Ballig> and that two-weapon fighting doesn't reduce the penalties (with that I agree)
18:14 <Avatar> but MWF assumes three or four weapons, right
18:22 <Avatar> with two weapons isn't he doing less damage
19:37 <Ballig> I don't see it as a perfect analogue and think it's not something that should be tried until there are proper rules for it
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25:02 <NotMort> yay
25:04 <NotMort> Im not mort
25:05 <NotMort> lol
27:31 <Mekkis> Avatar, MWF doesn't say three or four weapons
27:38 <Mekkis> it says three or four arms
27:52 <Mekkis> (hands actually)
28:11 <Avatar> The Two-Weapon Fighting feat reduces penalties for the primary hand and one off-hand. This means that if a creature has three hands and uses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, one of its hands and any weapon it wields with that hand takes full off-hand penalties without benefit of the feat.
28:37 <Mekkis> [citation]
28:55 <Ballig> one off-hand
28:56 <Ballig> not three off-hands
31:45 <Mekkis> two-weapon fighting and the two-weapon fighting feat are actually rather different
52:48 <Mekkis> "If I were a political animal – which, of course, I am not, because that would violate the Great Injunction," he coughed, and stroked Mogus. "If I were, however, I would marry the Duchess, storm and secure the palace, assassinate the king, usurp the crown, and retroengineer all of my bloodlines to validate my claim to the throne. I would then begin to ruthlessly suppress any resistance to my rule, and have all of my chief rivals murdered. That’
52:48 <Mekkis> s the way it’s usually done, isn’t it? Except, in your case, you could claim divine right as well. I would declare myself Eadric I, Holy Emperor of Wyre and the Voice of Oronthon on Earth. I would unite Church and State into a single, seamless body. I would also issue commands to the effect that all avians must be shot on sight. A golden, birdless era of peace and prosperity would dawn across Wyre."
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18:34 <Mekkis> Ballig, still good for CoTE on Sunday?
19:42 <Avatar> depends on canine's appearance
20:18 <Mekkis> should I prepare something (possibly First Steps 2) if Ballig can't run it?
20:39 <Avatar> yeah I guess so
20:47 <Avatar> I'm rolling up a new character for first steps 2
20:51 <Avatar> I am too scared
21:02 <Mekkis> I've been thinking... perhaps my definition of "viable in combat" is different to Spaceshot's
21:22 <Mekkis> 14 str + a two-handed weapon is, IMO, viable in combat
21:25 <Mekkis> at least at low levels
21:35 <Mekkis> your thoughts?
22:02 <Avatar> sure, why wouldn't it be
22:11 <Avatar> does he think it's not
23:20 <Mekkis> he thinks that a character with special abilities or high skills shouldn't be
23:29 <Mekkis> shouldn't be 'viable in combat'
25:57 <Avatar> maybe he means less viable in combat
26:30 <Avatar> like a support character
30:01 <Mekkis> a support character with 14 str and a two-handed weapon?
30:52 <Avatar> a rogue can easily have that
31:06 <Mekkis> pretty much any class can have that
31:12 <Mekkis> except perhaps a wizard
31:22 <Avatar> yeah but we're talking lowest common denominator
31:45 <Avatar> the point is it's viable
31:46 <Mekkis> mmm?
32:05 <Avatar> mmm
33:02 <Mekkis> what I'm getting at is perhaps Spaceshot doesn't realise that when I say "effective", I mean "1d8+3 damage"
14:38 <Avatar> should probably make sure I'm registered for arcanacon properly
14:46 <Avatar> I don't think I worked out what days I was going
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