#eevblog - 2020-03-09 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2020-03-09

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« 2020-03-08 2020-03-10 »
29:11 <hsn93> shouldnt high speed traces be adjasent to GND plane ? https://snipboard.io/NIwAop.jpg !! L6 is bottom / L5 is not ground
29:35 <hsn93> i thought L3 would be better for routing this ^^
29:53 <hsn93> L2 is solid ground .. only L2 ..
30:47 Join: hsn993 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
33:55 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
37:00 <hsn993> someone should do this ::: https://snipboard.io/xO7ifh.jpg :)
38:45 <steve30> hi
15:27 <rust_collector> do what?
45:35 Quit: hsn993 ([email protected]) Connection closed
45:57 Join: hsn993 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
51:21 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:02 <Lemon> I openned the systron again, but well I cant see any component thats bad, I think I'll have to discard it from the desk until I can fix it :(
52:09 <Lemon> I cant accept such a big offset
53:51 <Lemon> thats a shame because I really like it
54:02 Quit: hsn993 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
11:20 <hsn> rust_collector ,, make dave logo = that picture of instagram :P
22:24 Join: AndrevS ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
58:59 Quit: rust_collector ([email protected]) Connection closed
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02:29 Quit: arekm ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:32 Join: arekm ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:20 Join: Lemonizer ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
30:00 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
30:34 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
55:20 <Lemonizer> the guy with the tek tds 540 accept to keep it for me until march 20 !
55:28 <Lemonizer> so I have 12 days to get the money :>
57:06 <rust_collector> ok, so....
57:23 <Lemonizer> 290 euros for it, and I'll grab it
57:36 <Lemonizer> since yesterday I got 3 msgs for the laptop
57:40 <Lemonizer> 3 scams :>
58:18 <rust_collector> that does not help you much
58:39 <Lemonizer> yeah that sucks
58:49 <Lemonizer> but once the scam wave is gone, usually it sells fast
01:49 <rust_collector> ok
01:56 <rust_collector> good luck with that
02:05 <Lemonizer> thanks :>
02:11 <Lemonizer> I have a backup plan
02:26 <Lemonizer> the desktop is gonna be sold in a few days for 150
02:50 <Lemonizer> and I can put 140 from my pocket if I dont sell the laptop before the 20th
04:00 <rust_collector> I think you shoudl buy a raspberry pi 4, so I can get rid of these cases, that I have no seed for
04:20 <Lemonizer> haha well, maybe you should get one
04:24 <Lemonizer> as you have a nice case
04:31 <rust_collector> yeah, but probably not
04:38 <rust_collector> I have 2 cases
04:48 <Lemonizer> get two then
05:05 <rust_collector> and no use for them. I have plenty of crap-spec computers already
06:24 <rust_collector> As I pretty much use the garage computer only for a browser, I guess that could work ok
06:30 <rust_collector> but... meh
12:44 <Ampera> Morning friends
13:03 <Lemonizer> hello
13:19 <Ampera> I've gone out for new shoes
13:29 <Ampera> And am currently sitting in a 99
16:28 <rust_collector> ok, what is a 99, and I am making some sort of stew
18:15 <Ampera> It's almost a pub
18:30 <Ampera> But basically a sit down place that does food
18:48 <Ampera> I bought new sneakers for 50 bucks
18:54 <Ysjoelfir> Hi ampera :)
18:54 <Ampera> They're ASICs
18:59 <Ampera> Hi Ysjoelf
20:43 <rust_collector> One day, I will pay for shoes
21:36 <Ampera> This is the first time I've paid for my own shoes
22:26 <rust_collector> I have one pair of nice shoes, and one pair of sneakers, I do not know where they are
22:40 <rust_collector> I just use my work shoes all the time
09:59 <Lemonizer> the tds 540 got 1gs/s on only 1 channel, then its 500ms/s on 2 and 250ms/s on 4
10:09 <Lemonizer> but it got a neat time base, 500ps/div to 10s/div
20:20 Join: steve31 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
24:47 <Ysjoelfir> whats that? a steveNotOrdersOfMagnitudeOf3?
29:06 <DHess_US> Tektronix made different DSOs with a constant sample rate with a different number of channels.
29:23 <DHess_US> Which were not the TDS 500 series.
30:16 <DHess_US> So TDS600 series is constant sample rate, but I doubt you want one of those.
31:00 <DHess_US> Some of the TDS700 series might be but I am not sure.
57:40 <Lemonizer> well tds600 are a bit expensive
57:51 <Lemonizer> id like to find one under 500 euros max
58:05 <Lemonizer> I have an opportunity for a 540 at 290 euros
00:21 <T3sl4> funny that TDS400s don't share ADCs, they have full sample rate available on each channel (or, at least that's true of the 460?)
00:28 Quit: steve31 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
00:41 <T3sl4> meager 150MSps tho
02:25 <Lemonizer> if you have any idea of a model that offer better price/perf than the tds 540 at 290 euros
02:28 <Lemonizer> im interested !
02:52 <Ysjoelfir> Tektronix 502A, usually sells for 60€ or less :)
03:00 <Ysjoelfir> great value
03:01 <Lemonizer> nooooo :>
03:05 <Lemonizer> theres the tds 380 too
03:10 <Lemonizer> 400mhz, 2gs/s
03:22 <Lemonizer> I found one for around 320 with shipping
03:29 <Lemonizer> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tektronix-TDS-380-Two-Channel-Digital-Real-Time-Oscilloscope/254335219113?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140423084956%26meid%3D7fec8c9ee294476992a36fa77a1deb2e%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D143319767659%26itm%3D254335219113%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2045573&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042
05:15 <Lemonizer> the 540 seems to have better features despite lower sample rate
07:09 <Ysjoelfir> yeeeeeeeeees
07:12 <Ysjoelfir> they are great
07:16 <Ysjoelfir> (the 502As
07:17 <Ysjoelfir> )
08:02 <steve30> Ysjoelfir, On my thinkpad, the name just increments 1 :)
09:35 <Ysjoelfir> :O
12:04 <Lemonizer> no but in all seriousness, is 500ms's and even 250 when I use 4 channel manageable ? its hard to tell, as I never really used a DSO, besides playing around with the old hp or my tek
12:58 <Ysjoelfir> sure it is. people have worked with that for quite some time :)
13:06 <Ysjoelfir> I use scopes like that at work, still.
13:40 <Lemonizer> yeah true ! and most of the time I'll probably use 2 channels max, so either 1gs/s if one, or 500Ms/s if two sounds good enough
14:05 <Lemonizer> 500ps/div sounds really nice for pulses or stuff like this, idk
14:14 <Lemonizer> my analog tek is like 20ns minimum
20:39 <Lemonizer> idk the timebase or equivalent rigol scopes
20:42 <Lemonizer> just to know
23:09 <Lemonizer> for about the same price, I can get a 60mhz 1gs/s rigol scope
23:25 <Lemonizer> two channels, 5ns/div, much less features
23:42 <Lemonizer> lighter, so less cool factor
23:49 <Lemonizer> the heavier the cooler, you know it
24:25 <rust_collector> if it does not have wheels, it is not usable
24:34 <Lemonizer> exactly
24:44 <Lemonizer> the tds 540 is still an heavy boi
25:14 <Ysjoelfir> think how much better a 502A with a scope cart would be!
25:23 <Lemonizer> stopppppp
25:44 <Lemonizer> I really need something to complement my 2245 ! as much as I like old things, I try to get things that I will use :>
26:54 <rust_collector> you want one that runs on diesel.
29:18 <Lemonizer> why not!
29:39 <rust_collector> I said you do
38:57 <Lemonizer> also this tds 540 got an option, the 50k mem depth or whatever
39:02 <Lemonizer> its an option so its nice
39:23 Quit: Stiff ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
53:39 <Lemonizer> on a dmm, when they say '0.002% accuracy + 9 digits'
53:48 <Lemonizer> its in total 0.0029% ?
54:00 <Lemonizer> or you add 9 counts at the 0.002% of the result
54:12 <Ysjoelfir> no. it's +- 0
54:12 <Lemonizer> 9 counts on the last significant digit
54:14 <Ysjoelfir> ...
54:29 <Ysjoelfir> 0.002% of the displayed value +- 9 last significant digits
55:24 <Lemonizer> so for example on 10V, I get +- 0.0002v (the 0.002% spec) and with those 9 counts, its 0.00029v
55:26 <Lemonizer> right ?
55:35 <Lemonizer> as its a 6.5 digits dmm
55:41 <Lemonizer> it can show 10.00000 max
55:54 <Ysjoelfir> yes
56:14 <Lemonizer> ok, so now for the dmm that calibrated my Vref, admitting its within 1 year accuracy
56:28 <Lemonizer> thats 0.003% + 4 counts
56:40 <Lemonizer> so 0.00034v
56:53 <Lemonizer> how do I calculate the uncertainty ?
56:59 <Lemonizer> of the Vref
57:12 <Lemonizer> that my fluke is reading
57:25 <Lemonizer> admitting my fluke is within 1 year cal, and the dmm that cal the Vref is too
58:26 <Lemonizer> because with the fluke, admitting the Vref is a perfect 10v, it can read either 10.00029 or 9.99971v
58:54 <Lemonizer> and the dmm that was used to call the vref, can either be 9.99966v or 10.00034v
59:09 <Lemonizer> well the vref can be that or that
59:39 <Lemonizer> to give you an idea, my grades in math were usually 1/2 out of 20
00:05 <rust_collector> as the grades go to 6, I would say that is ok
00:47 <Lemonizer> no, to 20
01:12 <rust_collector> hey! is it you that suck at math, do you want to discuss numbers?
04:27 <Lemonizer> im trying to get better :>
05:16 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
06:47 <rust_collector> I like 9
06:53 <rust_collector> that is a good number
07:17 <rust_collector> it is a lot, without using extra space
08:22 <Ysjoelfir> so.... are you sure that you want to do uncertainty calculations, lemon?^^
09:04 <Lemonizer> well thats interesting ! I want to know at least what to expect, from the avlues I know :> >
09:12 <Lemonizer> to know how close to spec my fluke is
09:20 <Ysjoelfir> ok. just so that you know: we have one person at work that has a Ph.D. in maths. He is one of two people that can do that without using excel tables taking ages
09:22 <rust_collector> you are a nutcase Lemonizer... be happy that the thing measures stuff to around half a volt, it will be just fine, lol
09:36 <Lemonizer> noooooooo
09:40 <Lemonizer> arghhh half a volt !
09:58 <rust_collector> yes, it will make no difference at all
10:01 <Lemonizer> I got so mad at the systron donner for 5mv that im not using it anymore till I know how to fix it, and it makes me sad :(
10:09 <rust_collector> at least not anything measurable
10:38 <Lemonizer> I mean I have nice instruments, I want them to be at least in 1 year spec
10:48 <Lemonizer> if not, then all those nice digits are useless
10:50 <rust_collector> mmhmm
11:39 <Lemonizer> Ysjoelfir if you got any excel tables that can do the job... hey !
12:11 <Ysjoelfir> I have a pdf somewhere (right now searching for that) that explains why that is so complicated
12:37 <Lemonizer> is it fluke - calibration philo in practice ?
13:02 <Lemonizer> I need to read it, I just found it
13:08 <Lemonizer> it seems to be what I need to know
13:36 <rust_collector> https://imgur.com/a/8jJ5gaL
13:43 <rust_collector> get one of those
13:47 <Ysjoelfir> lets see if that works
13:51 <rust_collector> not much to worry about
13:52 <Ysjoelfir> did you get a data thing?
14:16 <Lemonizer> it got rejected for some reasons, but it usually never works
14:18 <Ysjoelfir> absolutely what rusty sais. I mean, it's the best, as it clearly states on the thing!
14:21 <Lemonizer> we tried with rust multiple times
14:24 <Ysjoelfir> heh. IRC :D
14:32 <Lemonizer> yeah after all, the fluke 101 does the job !
14:42 <Lemonizer> but I accept it because it does what it states you know
14:50 <Lemonizer> if something states its accurate to 0.00001%
14:52 <Lemonizer> I want it to be
15:00 <Lemonizer> if its only meant ot be 0.1%, fine
15:07 <Ysjoelfir> http://img.tinkertubes.de/Knowledge/Appnotes/A%20guide%20to%20measurement%20uncertainties.pdf
15:16 <rust_collector> sure, but then don't buy a 35 year old one
15:21 <Lemonizer> if its 0.12% instead of 0.1% or 0.0002 instead of 0.0001 no I cant accept that
15:35 <Lemonizer> well dmm's Vref ages well sometimes
15:45 <Lemonizer> and I dont trust those chinese stuff
15:47 <rust_collector> yes, but some do not, I guess?
15:56 <Lemonizer> thanks dude ! im saving it
16:02 <rust_collector> that is ok, you do not have to
16:04 <Lemonizer> yeah but not at the prices I can put
16:52 <rust_collector> exactly, so use your nice old meters, and be happy that they are still better than most of what most people get to use
17:29 <rust_collector> sure you can look into tuning them up some day
17:37 <rust_collector> pick one
17:39 <Lemonizer> well I dont work like that :> I wont chase the 24h spec, the 1 year spec is fine, but if its out by many mV it bothers me too much
17:51 <rust_collector> I have noticed that
18:13 <rust_collector> stop being bothered by that
19:04 <rust_collector> many mv...lol
20:18 <Ysjoelfir> Voltnuttery can be great fun, but also a burden sometimes^^ I know that just too well :D
21:38 <rust_collector> I say you should pick one device, and be nutty about that one. if you fix it, then fine, start on a different one. but gaaah, no
22:37 <rust_collector> I guess you should figure out if you are ok with breaking it or not, because that could happen.
25:54 <rust_collector> I am looking forward to make a box, then cut apart my cheapest crappy meter, and make it into a bench meter, just to annoy you. Don't worry, it will be within specs, because there are pretty much no specs to be within
26:30 <Ysjoelfir> you can be soooo mean :D
26:42 <rust_collector> it will look awesome tho
26:48 <Ysjoelfir> just a thought: why not just use one of those cheap panelmeters from aliexpress?
27:11 <rust_collector> they are probably more expensive and well specced, lol
27:43 <rust_collector> but yes, why the hell not? they would do most of what I would need
28:28 <Ysjoelfir> when lemon was here I gave him some bargraph panelmeters. I think I will use those for a project. could be awesome i reckon
28:43 <rust_collector> hmm, yeah
28:51 <Lemonizer> I looked at them :> they seem complicated !
29:11 <Ysjoelfir> oh, I forgit: i wanted to search the manual for you
29:25 <Lemonizer> but yeah rust, you know test equipement is a passion for me
29:32 <Lemonizer> I like precision, even if I dont do much with it
29:41 <Lemonizer> I like the fact that this X thing is precise to X digits
29:56 <Lemonizer> like I said, the fluke 101 that I have, which is what
29:59 <Lemonizer> 0.5% accurate ?
30:05 <rust_collector> sure. but don't get all stressed out about it. you still have a few years to get it working
30:07 <Lemonizer> im fine with it, because its meant to be like that
30:23 <Lemonizer> ho im not stressed :> im just a bit sad because I like the systron, and I want it to be in specs
30:36 <Lemonizer> but I'll be able to sleep
30:38 <Lemonizer> dont worry :>
31:14 <rust_collector> well, I want the front of that thing, with 3/4 of the depth cut off, lol
32:28 <rust_collector> I am sure you will get that thing apart soon enough.
39:14 <rust_collector> talking about that, I shoudl go sleep, lol
39:25 <Lemonizer> hmmm I cant get the manual trigger to work on the wavetek
39:33 <Lemonizer> and im doing exactly what the documentation says
41:52 <Ysjoelfir> ha! found it
42:40 <Lemonizer> Only one complete cycle of output appears at 50fi OUT
42:40 <Lemonizer> connector for each pulse applied to TRIG IN connector
42:40 <Lemonizer> (or press of MAN TRIG switch).
43:03 <Lemonizer> no matter what gen mode setting im on, the switch does nothing
43:05 <Ysjoelfir> --> informations for that panelmeter http://img.tinkertubes.de/Knowledge/Devices/PM190/
43:17 <Lemonizer> ha nice ! thanks, im keeping that
47:57 <rust_collector> well, good night people
48:06 <Ysjoelfir> gn8 rusty
57:07 Quit: mikjaer ([email protected]) Quit: Lost terminal
57:58 Join: Stiff ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:54 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Big Clive is now on @LBRYio ! https://t.co/O3B4jwbbaL
14:55 <Lemonizer> Ysjoelfir, I did more test and yes, the trigger osmt working on the wavetek 164
15:04 <Lemonizer> either manualy or with an external trigger
17:57 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: WTF @LBRYio What happened to https://t.co/xWxu86CXFj ? https://t.co/ptyiGyqHsO
19:07 <Lemonizer> gladly theres a nice troubleshooting paragraph in the manual so I'll follow it !
19:14 <Lemonizer> it seems to be fairly simple
20:44 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:44 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
23:19 <Lemonizer> thats why I like old gear, you'll never get such a complete manual now
23:34 <Lemonizer> with deep troubleshooting tips, handrawn schematics... etc
25:11 <Lemonizer> if only the systron got the same manual
25:31 <Lemonizer> well anyway, we'll see tomorow ! time to sleep, see you everybody !
25:35 Quit: Lemonizer ([email protected]) Connection closed
32:34 <Ampera> Hi ThunderSqueak, how are you doing
33:08 <Ysjoelfir> "The Lemon is gone, now we can talk!"? XD
33:25 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, that was a bit sour of you
33:26 <ThunderSqueak> I am ok all things considered I guess
33:40 * Ampera hugs ThunderSqueak 
33:45 <Ysjoelfir> I am a kraut, I'm allowed to be :)
34:16 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, you're just the wurst
34:45 <Ysjoelfir> I hope a tasty one?
35:04 <Ampera> how would I know, I'm not gay
36:34 Join: ZayneTechYT ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
36:56 * ThunderSqueak used to think her ancestry was german <.<;;
37:02 <ThunderSqueak> guess not
37:04 <ThunderSqueak> *shrug*
37:07 <Ampera> did you make a discovery?
37:28 <ThunderSqueak> yep, my brothers are half german, the main who raised me is half german
37:33 <ThunderSqueak> err full german
37:53 <Ampera> but not your parents
37:57 <ThunderSqueak> meh whatever, I can't type
38:13 <ThunderSqueak> uhmm they are technically half brothers
38:26 <ThunderSqueak> DNA test confirmed
38:31 <Ampera> so you are German
38:32 <ThunderSqueak> whatever
38:36 <ThunderSqueak> no
38:54 <Ampera> so you're unrelated to them?
38:59 <ThunderSqueak> not what I said either
39:08 <ThunderSqueak> takes two to make a baby <.<
39:17 <Ampera> yes but if one is German you are Germany.
39:20 <Ampera> *German
39:23 <ThunderSqueak> no
39:25 <Ampera> yes
39:29 <ThunderSqueak> nope
39:32 <Ampera> my father is German, my mother is not
39:37 <Ampera> I am a German citizen and german by blood.
39:38 <ThunderSqueak> my mother is not german
40:14 <Ampera> mine isn't either, she's far more interesting in her genetic makeup, but my father is 100% German
40:24 <ThunderSqueak> I am apparently Norwegian, indigenous south american, irish, indian, sri lanken, touch of spanish
40:43 <ThunderSqueak> peru to be exact
41:06 <Ampera> alright I think I understand what's gone on then
41:12 <ThunderSqueak> yes
41:24 <ThunderSqueak> they were not married while she was pregnant with me
41:25 <Ampera> That's neat though, pretty cool spattering of genetics.
41:44 <ThunderSqueak> I listed those in order from what I am most to what I am least....
41:49 <ThunderSqueak> 30% norwegian
42:10 <Ampera> I can only guess at my genetic makeup, as best as I know I'm 25% French Canadian, 50% German, 25% ???
42:11 <ThunderSqueak> 30% peruvian native roughly
42:21 <Ampera> that's pretty cool
42:31 <ThunderSqueak> 17% irish
42:32 <ThunderSqueak> etc
42:49 <ThunderSqueak> explains why everyone asks me if I am native american
43:17 <Ampera> Of that 25% if I had to guess, would be some form of ethnic Jewish, British or Irish on top of it
43:30 <ThunderSqueak> I have absolutely no jewish
44:03 <Ampera> So my father is 100% German, my maternal grandfather is within a margin of error 100% French via Canada, but my maternal grandmother I have very little clue
44:19 <Ampera> She's unfortunately not alive to give intuition.
44:29 <ThunderSqueak> odd twist of fate, a friend of mine from columbia, after I showed him the results was like OMG, the white skin throws ya but you do look like one of them! (I foudn out which tribe)
44:48 <ThunderSqueak> then he was like "huh, apparently, I am more white than you are"
44:54 <ThunderSqueak> O.o
44:55 <Ampera> lol
45:07 <Ampera> That seems pretty cool, I hope you're not too disappointed with those results.
45:12 <ThunderSqueak> nah
45:24 <ThunderSqueak> not at all, to bad it isn't a tribe recognised in the USA
45:48 <Ampera> At the end of the day it doesn't matter, people are people for what they are, not because of their ancestry.
45:58 <ThunderSqueak> I contacted their cultural heritage center in peru and asked questions, they said if I wanted to go down there they would accept me O.o
46:10 <Ampera> should have been a lesson learned pretty damn hard 80 years ago, but some people never learn
46:11 <ThunderSqueak> I was curious who dad is
46:18 <ThunderSqueak> or at least about the cultur
46:21 <ThunderSqueak> culture*
46:45 <Ampera> South America is definitely a unique area I know depressingly little about, at least outside of some elements of history.
47:58 <Ampera> heh, since I make money now maybe I should run a DNA test.
48:18 <ThunderSqueak> the really hilarious thing... I showed my wife, who is alaskan native, the art they do and she was like "holy fuck.... that is shockingly similar to a LOT of your art"
49:56 <ThunderSqueak> wonder if it is a genetic brain thign to always be drawing repetative patterns like they do, or I apparently do
50:56 <ThunderSqueak> just something I see when I close my eyes
51:18 <Ampera> Art is something that might be defined by one's life as much as one's soul
51:26 <ThunderSqueak> yeah
51:29 <ThunderSqueak> I am aware
52:03 <ThunderSqueak> but this is just something I see when I am in an altered state or if I am about to fall asleep, right before sleep
52:28 <Ampera> I'm not a particularly artistic person, likely since I've never given it much attention.
52:38 <ThunderSqueak> apparently for them, it is what they see when they are on certain traditional medicines
52:40 <Ampera> I prefer philosophy, thinking about how the world works.
52:51 <ThunderSqueak> so, shockingly similar
54:25 <Ampera> I might go and cook, but that requires getting up and doing things
54:26 <Ampera> with effort
54:55 <ThunderSqueak> I had an omelette earlier, with a spicy reindeer sausage, chives, and a colby jack cheese
55:20 <Ampera> I don't think I've ever had reindeer
55:52 <Ampera> macaroni and cheeseburger (with rotini as substitute for macaroni)
56:25 <Ampera> ThunderSqueak, are you planning on getting (or have you gotten) the new HL game?
56:40 <ThunderSqueak> the new HL game?
56:44 <Ampera> Half Life
56:49 <ThunderSqueak> I dont play half life
56:52 <Ampera> because I know you do VR
57:01 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
57:10 <Ampera> All the titles are free to play until the new one drops if you want to try them out
57:10 <ThunderSqueak> ah, have not been able to use my headset for a while
57:13 <Ampera> they're excellent
57:21 <ThunderSqueak> not since cranial surgery
57:34 <Ampera> ah
57:37 <ThunderSqueak> it put pressure where the bone was removed and replaced
57:52 <Ampera> I haven't used VR in a while because I'm too lazy to clean up my VR area
58:13 <ThunderSqueak> ah
58:42 <Ampera> I'm planning on upgrading my PC a bit likely in a couple weeks
58:50 <Ampera> in time for Half-Life: Alyx hopefully
58:55 <ThunderSqueak> *nod*
59:09 <Ampera> by upgrading i mean the only original part left will be my SSD
59:14 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: MickMake: @eevblog @LBRYio OK. Let’s see if we can get all the techie YouTubers on @LBRYio and make it the platform of choice for the genre. @makersmuse @unexpectedmaker @GreatScottLab @RobotMakerGirl @SimoneGiertz
59:20 <Ampera> which will get supplemented with a PCIe 4 one
00:15 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I just did a video on https://t.co/xWxu86UywR going bust: https://t.co/ztwkketcUI Early comment: "They had a hissy fit about not getting "the right amount of money" from the LBRY foundation for their project so they took their ball and went home."
16:06 <ThunderSqueak> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329483988500611086/686342885360402565/image0.png
37:31 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! WTF Just Happened to https://t.co/1CQCH6Inf0 ? https://t.co/n0sjfJaQ1p
30:40 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Connection closed
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44:45 <DHess_US> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HDvLelNt/IMG_2108.JPG
44:46 Quit: Guest|9017 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
59:27 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Chris Gammell: Adrian Tang is a CMOS chip designer working on designs that go up above 500 GHz. You read that right. This was one of the most technically challenging interviews I've done on @theamphour to date. I hope I managed to ask some of the right questions! https://t.co/qo5RX9JGpU https://t.co/LfxJ8mzFKa
22:37 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: The Australian stock market just dropped 6% this morning, who saw that coming, answers on the back of a post card please.
07:27 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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53:13 <Halcyon> Afternoon all
54:39 <steve30> hi
54:43 <Halcyon> :D
57:26 * T3sl4 squeezes Halcyon
57:31 <steve30> Halcyon, I'm going to try and telephone an air conditioning company today
59:25 * Halcyon gives T3sl4 a squeeze back.... mmm firm
59:58 <T3sl4> i guess? it's chair-toned
00:08 <Halcyon> Hehehe
00:12 <Halcyon> What's doing?
00:53 * steve30 is cold
01:17 * Halcyon rubs Steve to warm him up
01:21 * T3sl4 fires the duvet hose at steve30
01:26 <steve30> :)
10:03 Join: spyro ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:11 <spyro> Hi everyone
10:25 <T3sl4> hi
10:27 <steve30> hi
10:33 * steve30 ponders more coffee
10:51 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:19 <spyro> Well i was finding out about an electronic component, to repair the pump of an alternating pressure mattress
11:46 <spyro> it's a tiny transistor, in to-92 format
11:59 <spyro> it says: sdt0102
12:12 <spyro> but i can't find a datasheet anywhere
12:43 <spyro> do somebody know if this is an alternate name of a more generic type of transistor?
14:30 <hsn> picture ?
15:45 <spyro> oh wait. give me a minute for the picture
19:33 <spyro> I can't upload it. The applications says something about a limit exceeded
20:09 <T3sl4> you can't upload to IRC :P
22:19 <hsn> snag.gy
22:50 <hsn> imgur.com
25:36 <spyro> ok. gimme a minute again
25:37 <spyro> please
27:41 <spyro> https://imgur.com/TUWwx1H
28:19 <spyro> i could not take a picture of the component's name. it's tiny. i need a macro lens
29:18 <spyro> but it says: std0102 6ua 1917
29:25 <hsn> so is it (sdt) in a line and (0102) in other .. are you sure (0) is not (letter-o) ... s is not (8) .. and so on ?
30:01 <spyro> in a single line, it says: sdt0102
30:10 <spyro> the 's' i'm sure it's an s
30:24 <spyro> the 0 i'm not sure if it could possibly be an -o
34:49 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Editing a video now, the Hapbee Scam! over 50min of raw video though, need to trim a tad...
35:49 <hsn> couldnt find it
37:14 <spyro> i didn't have luck finding it also
38:29 <spyro> the circuit drives mains voltage, because the pump works with 120v, and the valve is driven by a syncronous motor that also works with mains voltage
41:26 <spyro> but i'm not sure if the transistor commutes that voltage. By themselves, the pump and the motor with the valve do all the work of inflating the veins of the mattress. But the device has a dial to select the weight of the patient, which i presume is related to the inflating pressure
41:37 Quit: qeed ([email protected]) Client exited
42:55 <spyro> i suppose, the purpose of the circuit is to control the power input to the pump by phase angle control, so i'm tempted to think that transistor is actually a mosfet
43:17 <hsn> could this be thyristor ? T3sl4 ----> https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/961420/TELEFUNKEN/BSV57B/1
43:49 <spyro> ooh... a thyristor
43:55 <spyro> that could be...
45:19 <spyro> thyristors are used for that kind of work, right? phase angle control?
46:44 <hsn> yes
46:46 <spyro> a thyristor with very simmilar number here: https://www.st.com/en/thyristors-scr-and-ac-switches/p0102dn.html
48:09 <spyro> thanks hsn. That has to be the guy
48:17 <spyro> a thyristor
48:42 <hsn> but the marking .. ?
49:58 <spyro> i'm checking it
51:19 <spyro> bsv57b. do you think it may be compatible?
52:00 Join: shaked ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:11 <spyro> sorry if my english is not the best. it's not my mother language
53:17 Quit: shaked ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
54:02 <hsn> i dont think so spyro .. i think the one u found is the one .. but im not expert in the field so dont take my words
55:07 <spyro> well. But you get the component right. It's a thyristor.
55:12 <spyro> Thanks a lot hsn
55:25 <spyro> You're great
55:54 <hsn> "bsv57b" has 35v which is not 120v ^
01:11 <spyro> yeah, and the 0102 supports 400v
01:29 <spyro> Now i have to build a testbox for thyristors
01:52 <spyro> 'cause some said they can't be tested well with a multimeter
02:04 <hsn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zfNuYAUJx4&feature=youtu.be -----> Tesla's Model Y Wiring Loom is AMAZING!
06:11 <T3sl4> i'd trace the circuit to be sure
06:18 <T3sl4> it's probably not terribly complicated
08:00 Join: qeed ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:02 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Backed By Science https://t.co/goeACREkFQ
08:15 <spyro> Yeah T3sl4. I will trace the ciruit tomorrow to be sure. Thankfully it's analogic, and it's simple.
14:23 <hsn> T3sl4 im checking your article related to simple switch overcurrent protection
14:29 <hsn> "Consequently, you should choose a lower hFE(sat) at higher currents"
14:47 <hsn> why?
16:36 <T3sl4> the lower hFE at high currents is shown in the, wait, next paragraph or a little lower i forget, but yeah
20:35 <T3sl4> should i make it clearer?
22:24 <hsn> i mean i still didnt get where u refer to ..
23:12 <hsn> (you should choose a lower hFE(sat) at higher currents) <----- oh u mean u should assume that its lower than the graph ?
24:01 <hsn> i was understanding this the following way: "you should choose component that has lower Hfe at high currents) ..
24:24 <hsn> but english is not my mother langauge so i dont know maybe its clear for a lot of people but not me
24:52 <T3sl4> could probably stand to add some symbol definitions -- hFE(sat) is what you use it at, hFE is what the device does in linear mode (Vce >> Vce(sat))
26:21 <hsn> the numbers are little confusing .. as we (beginners) like to take these numbers and start validating it with datasheet .. i guess they are assemptions right ?
27:06 <T3sl4> hmm
27:25 <T3sl4> it'd be worth writing a whole article just explaining the datasheet and how to use it, really
27:41 <hsn> this was my struggle with lot of questions .. until i adopt that (datasheets) does not provide everything and there is lot of hidden info u need to extract
27:51 <T3sl4> i don't feel like writing that right now, :P but it sounds like a good idea
30:40 <hsn> yeah like this is big point for beginners.. we tend to validate this information written in the article with datasheet .. im sure numbers and figures are not easy to see directly .. for example
31:25 <hsn> u said hFe is 10 at 150mA .. but it would be much clearer for lots of beginers to see that they can see it in datasheet ( VCe(sat) = (IC=150mAdc, IB=15mAdc) )
35:08 <Halcyon> This is how you get your buns so tight isn't it T3sl4: https://youtu.be/4rWlhcD2Z9w?t=158
35:39 <T3sl4> wow
35:51 <hsn> lool
35:54 <hsn> ladies are liers
36:01 <Halcyon> That girl looks like she was about to get flung off it
36:03 <hsn> setting on this on pc desk
36:08 <Halcyon> Imagine trying to type
36:35 <T3sl4> on a related note, some of the guys at the office use exercise balls instead of office chairs
36:50 <hsn> imagine that its truly 2800 RPM no gear ratio
36:51 <hsn> xD
37:12 <Halcyon> Oh gawd, is that like the standing desk craze?
37:49 <spyro> hahahaha
38:06 <T3sl4> a few do that, too
38:36 <spyro> well. Thanks to all of you for your support. I'm going to take a nap
38:40 <spyro> It's midnight
38:48 <spyro> Have a nice day/night everybody
38:52 <Halcyon> Night Spyro
39:01 <hsn> gn
39:11 Quit: spyro ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
39:26 <hsn> linus has one
39:30 <hsn> standing desk ^
40:30 <Halcyon> I agree we should get off our ass, but how about just going for a walk every now and then?
41:56 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
42:02 <hsn> hello bois
42:04 <Lemon> hello peeps
42:11 <Lemon> heh hello hsn
42:11 <EEVBlog> Hello there, Lemon!
42:12 <Halcyon> Howdy
42:12 <hsn> hi lemon
42:24 <Lemon> feels like shit, as usual
42:28 <Lemon> quick quick meds !
42:42 <hsn> i love this channel although he talks too much i get sleepy in his tutorial vids : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAPPiIxp0r0
42:46 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj718A7_s4A
42:49 <Halcyon> Aww clever bird
43:00 <Lemon> I wish to make a single night without having withdrawals in the morning
43:09 <Halcyon> Withdrawals?
43:30 <Lemon> yeah, a few years ago I solved problems with opioids, which I don't recommend
43:42 <Halcyon> Drugs are bad
43:59 <Halcyon> Do the withdrawals reduce over time?
44:10 <Lemon> it is ! its been more than 3 years that I take nothing, besides some wine, and I have a substitute
44:22 <Lemon> well they just increase the substitute dosage
44:34 <Lemon> but im at a limit :> so I'll have to live with it
44:49 <Lemon> you just switch being addicted to the drug, to the substitute
45:32 <Lemon> some peeps are fine with 50-60mg of methadone
45:43 <Lemon> 240mg isnt enough for me
45:53 <Lemon> human body is weird if you ask me
54:00 * Halcyon cuddles Lemon
54:13 <Lemon> aww
55:45 <steve30> The chemist I go to dispenses a lot of methadone
56:10 <Lemon> well it works really well, besides mornings my life is fine
56:16 <Lemon> and im a special case
56:32 <Lemon> buprenorphine, or subutex depends on were you live
56:36 <Lemon> is shit, compared to it
56:49 <steve30> Anyway, what's with people in the #eevblog channels taking weird drugs? I remember a few years ago I was chatting to a bloke who was high on 'research chemicals'
56:49 <EEVBlog> You can get that on the internet now?
56:59 <Halcyon> That's a new one :P
57:15 <Lemon> hah rc's :>
57:19 <Lemon> been there done that !
57:36 <Lemon> not my proudest moment either, those are one of the worse on the body I think
57:43 * steve30 just takes Citalopram and Naproxen
57:45 <Lemon> I stopped when I started to piss blood
58:01 <Halcyon> Lemon, I'm somewhat fascinated by people's experiences on drugs. Mainly because I feel so strongly against them and I spent years locking up people for possession etc...
58:19 <Halcyon> I honestly don't know what the solution is
58:50 <Lemon> there's none, people take drugs to avoid life's problems, its easier to let them destroy them
58:58 <Lemon> they'll find alternatives
59:13 <Lemon> I took maybe what, 15, 20 different drugs in the span of 10 years ?
59:37 <Lemon> and it does include stuff like sniffing hydricarbures
59:44 <Lemon> to tell you how low I went
00:14 <Lemon> at age 12 I knew that I would never be happy the normal way
00:25 <Lemon> so I had two ways, making others happy to feel something
00:29 <Lemon> and take drugs
03:06 <Lemon> now I take test equipement gear :>
05:26 <Lemon> thats why I feel such enjoyment by getting new stuff
05:36 <Lemon> its one way to feel some 'joy' I guess
08:32 <Halcyon> Why did you make such a decision at age 12?
08:42 <Halcyon> What was going on that made you feel so bad?
09:44 <Lemon> ho it was simply a realisation, I quickly realised that I was understanding too much shit, I felt in advance but socially left behind, I had friends but it was weird, thats really hard to explain
10:08 <Halcyon> I didn't fit in when I was in school either
10:10 <Lemon> when everybody around was having fun, getting in relationships etc, I was always the cool weirdo
10:28 <Lemon> so I built some armor, to go through life
10:31 <Halcyon> Hahah want to know what everyone called me all through High School?
10:34 <Halcyon> "Nerd"
10:34 <Lemon> and became the hardcore weirdo lol
10:51 <Halcyon> But they meant that in an endearing way
10:56 <Lemon> ho I had the french equivalent, but that didnt bother me too much, what was bothering me was jokes on my weight
11:01 <Halcyon> I also wore it as a badge of honour
11:10 <Halcyon> You were a big boy?
11:11 <Lemon> I always had trouble to gain weight, because of my morphology
11:19 <Halcyon> Oh the opposite
11:21 <Lemon> yes
11:46 <Lemon> and as I had some knees problem, I never ran a lot
11:49 <Halcyon> Some people like thin guys ;-)
11:51 <Lemon> never did sports either
12:02 <Lemon> yeah thats true now I dont feel that bad with that
12:12 <Lemon> but when you are young, damn I suffered from that
12:18 <Lemon> people are cruel
12:21 <Halcyon> Yep
13:22 <Lemon> so those last years, im emulating the christmas buzz you get when you are young
13:25 <Lemon> and hoarding stuff :>
13:45 <Halcyon> What stuff?
13:47 <Lemon> im not alone doing that, a lot of people dont accept it, but well, I like it in some ways
14:15 <Lemon> hoo various collections, new hobbies, now its test equipement, ive been collecting rubiks cube, leatherman stuff, airsoft replicas... and so on
14:45 <Lemon> im trying to get more into electronics because I like it, and it would be a nice thing to work with
15:38 <Halcyon> I collect vintage computers and various parts
15:54 <Halcyon> I even have a box of IO cards and bits which I legitimately have no idea what they are/do
16:58 * steve30 cuddles Halcyon 
17:35 <Halcyon> Naww :)
17:53 <hsn> T3sl4 one more question in that article ..
18:15 <steve30> I have to go out in a couple of hours
18:31 <hsn> Here, (+3.3V) × RBE / (RB + RBE) = 1.48V, the Thevenin equivalent base-supply voltage (that is, the voltage on the base, if base current were zero). If VBE(sat) = 0.8V, then current will limit around IC = (1.48 - 0.8V) / 2.2Ω ≈ 310mA.
19:10 <Lemon> ho I figured why those tek 2/3000 series scopes are so expensive, for example you can turn the 100mhz 1.25 gs/s version into a 500mhz 5gs/s with a software trick
19:27 <Halcyon> Where you going Steve?
19:42 <hsn> this cant be true ,, right? ignoring I(b) to get (1.48V) ?
21:02 <Lemon> id like to get a nice digital scope, maybe a 3456a and a pulse gen
23:09 <Lemon> for the scope I can get a tds 540 for 290 euros, or it will be something else in the same area of price idk
34:18 <T3sl4> hsn: Thevenin equivalent at Ib=0
39:25 <Lemon> today I might open my wavetek 164 and use the wonderful manual's troubleshooting tips to see if I can fix the trigger function
40:52 <Lemon> id like this beautiful instrument to work 100%
44:58 <Lemon> would have been even prettier if the fucking postal service didnt break one handle
45:16 <hsn> T3sl4 i understand, 1.48 will be at V(b) .. if (i(b) = 0) .. however to have (Ic > 0) ==> (Ib cant be assumed 0) .. so voltage is actually not 1.48v but much less ..
45:32 <hsn> right ?
54:34 <hsn> i mean i dont know how to convert (ib) but i assume that circuit limit is around 200mA not 310mA .. (310mA if ib = 0 which is not the case in reality) right ?
00:37 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/x5oZ3N.jpg <- even in spice 216 ..
04:19 Quit: ZayneTechYT ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
09:02 Join: mikjaer ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
09:04 Quit: mikjaer ([email protected]) Quit: leaving
09:57 Join: mikjaer ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
36:56 <steve30> Halcyon, I need to drop my sunglasses off at the optician, then i need groceries
37:13 <Halcyon> Going to panic buy toilet paper? :P
37:25 <steve30> nope
37:45 <Halcyon> Lube?
38:10 <Halcyon> When is your mum going away again?
38:15 <steve30> I doubt people will panic buy lube :D
38:21 <steve30> She went on Saturday
38:26 <Halcyon> Oooer :)
39:07 <Halcyon> Have you been wandering around naked all this time?
39:18 <steve30> no, i always wear clothes
39:26 <Halcyon> Bah, you're no fun
39:40 <steve30> We don't have the weather for no clothes here
40:30 <Halcyon> :(
46:49 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qStTIX86mhE
49:24 <K> hello
51:20 <steve30> well, we are somewhat nearing that. Haven't quite got the wireless power yet though
51:22 <steve30> hello K
51:42 <ThunderSqueak> hello people
52:24 <Halcyon> Hey K, ThunderSqueak
53:29 <hsn> hello there
54:20 <ThunderSqueak> hi Halcyon
54:26 <Halcyon> How are things
54:27 <Halcyon> ?
55:12 <ThunderSqueak> hmm well, could be a lot worse I guess ?
55:27 <Halcyon> Aw what's the matter?
57:33 <steve30> I'd like to go back to bed, but I have to go out
58:15 <Halcyon> You would live in bed if you could
58:27 <Halcyon> Like the grandparents from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
58:31 <steve30> Its cosy :)
58:36 <hsn> bed is the enemy of time and learning
58:46 <Halcyon> I agree with both of you
59:00 <hsn> i agree with ur agreement
59:10 <Halcyon> I wish I was a morning person
59:16 <Halcyon> It's so lovely as the sun comes up
59:20 <hsn> im hybird
59:23 <Halcyon> But I just can't bring myself to get up
59:53 <hsn> halcyon there is no such (morning / night) person
00:04 <hsn> everyone will get up if they get spanked :)
00:05 <hsn> xD
00:23 <Halcyon> Hahaha
00:34 <Halcyon> How does that encourage one to get out of bed? ;-)
01:42 <hsn> u build a rule inside them .. then that rule encourage them
02:07 <Halcyon> I was being cheeky
02:16 <ThunderSqueak> Halcyon, not for public consumption
02:21 <Halcyon> Yeh fair enough
33:10 <hsn> didnt see Ysjoelfir today
59:17 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) EOF from client
15:19 <hsn> guys does meeting EMC (ie getting EMC certificate in a test House) requires publishing source code to the test house ?
16:15 <hsn> if not .. then how they know (the product has degraded) in some functions .. some functions cant be noticed that they degraded without software debugging rights ?
19:47 Quit: mikjaer ([email protected]) Quit: Lost terminal
19:53 <K> emc does not care about software, only emissions
20:07 <K> you do have to provide them with test scenarios though
21:33 <K> you do emc testing both usefull and ass coverring at the same time
21:42 <K> also, i cant english.
22:00 Join: mikjaer ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:19 <hsn> no worries me to i cant english xD
23:39 <hsn> aah .. this mean there is alot of (ass coverring) in EMC
23:50 <K> well, it is well intended
24:14 <K> if something goes bad, then you want to have testing papers that somewhat prove that you took care
24:14 <hsn> u can have product that has (logging) .. but that logging is logging garbage because of noise ..
25:00 <K> then emc testing could show you that the design needs improvement
25:09 <hsn> or u can have logging with (ECC - error correcting code) that works because of software ..
25:47 <hsn> but how would they know (that my logging is garbage) if i didnt tell them to test logging (ie i was ass covering) ..
27:02 <K> emc does not care whether your device functions as you intended, only that it does not generate em that affects other devices (and maybe that itself is not susceptible to em, for some types of em)
28:50 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:56 <Lemon> hoooo guys guys
29:02 <Lemon> someone is coming today to pick my laptop !
29:10 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
29:11 <hsn93> lets say its (susceptible) in logging part .. (it doesnt reset but it doesnt log well..) ..
29:34 <hsn93> sorry get a disconnect
30:05 <K> then testing tells you that it has this problem, and you can fix it, before shipping it to customer
30:31 <K> testing and certification are slightly different things
30:45 <hsn93> but how they know .. who tells them to test logging functionality ?
31:07 <K> you should
31:21 <K> provide testing setup of sorts
31:21 <hsn93> but if i didnt .. then i (ass covered my self) .. ?
31:35 <K> no, if you didn't they probably would do any testing
32:00 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
32:02 <K> "ass covering" was a tad hyperbole on my part, for which i apologize
32:17 Quit: mikjaer ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
32:23 <Lemon> ho guys im so happy ! if I sell the laptop, I can get the scope and the other things I wanted :>
32:32 <K> things like food?
33:01 <Lemon> haha no its ok for that :P I try to force myself to sell things to get new gear, that way I dont end up with no money
33:57 <Lemon> I have to decide : a tek tds 540 for 290 euros, or a 744a for 500 ?
34:02 <hsn93> K, but still .. im sure there are a lot of products that degrade under EM .. but testing of some functions isnt covered .. so thats why i though (there is alot of self-ass-covering) ..
34:57 <hsn93> Lemon, 744 seems bigger number
35:00 <hsn93> :>
35:19 <K> well, from the certification aspect it is ok that they degrade (if not medical products or such, i would imagine), but do no harm to other things when degraded
35:44 <Lemon> the 540 got 500mhz bw, 1gs/s divided by 4 channels
36:02 <Lemon> the 744a is more recent I think, 500mhz, 2gs/s, 4 channels I believe but idk if its divided
36:11 <hsn93> when u activate one channel u get (1gs/s) per channel only?
36:28 <Lemon> yes
36:31 <hsn93> K, i see now.. thanks for clarification
37:18 <hsn93> Lemon, so if u activate 4 channels u get (250Mhz) bw ?
37:36 <Lemon> the bandwith stays the same I believe, only the sample rate is divided
37:50 <Lemon> but for the 744a im not sure I think its 2gs/s per channel https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tektronix-TDS-744A-Color-Four-Channel-Digitizing-Oscilloscope-500MHz-1/322424090304?hash=item4b11f92ec0:g:xLUAAOSwI59aQg85
38:03 <Lemon> hmmm wait
38:05 <hsn93> but if u cant sample as fast as bandwidth .. then ur bandwidth is ur sample ?
38:05 <Lemon> not the good one
38:27 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tektronix-Tds-744A-Couleur-Quatre-Canal-Numerisation-Oscilloscope-500MHz-3/153772663807?hash=item23cd90a3ff:g:HOQAAOSwhs1eASi3
38:29 <hsn93> but if u cant sample as fast as bandwidth .. then ur bandwidth is ur sample rate? **
38:30 <steve30> I'm back from Tesco. They hardly had any pasta, and they didn't have any bread flour.
38:31 <Lemon> this one but theres a broken knob
38:46 <Lemon> I dont know hsn, what you say seems correct !
39:14 <hsn93> i got this as launch : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_ghanoush
39:24 <rust_collector> eeloh
39:33 <Lemon> hi rusty
39:45 <Lemon> the 744a seems in good shape besides the knob
39:48 <rust_collector> hey you
39:56 <hsn93> hey rusty
40:01 <rust_collector> hey you
40:23 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Pour-Tektronix-TDS210-220-TDS2012-TDS101-Oscilloscope-Knob-Power-Switch-Cover/133269833213?hash=item1f078045fd:m:mVwZ13RCFKKsSKsvIGgEodw
40:37 <Lemon> idk if they are the same but they look alike
41:02 <rust_collector> what did you do now?
41:15 <Lemon> someone is buying my laptop today !
41:32 <Lemon> I told you, once the wave of scammers is gone, usually it sells quick
41:39 <Lemon> the guy pays with paypal gift in front of me
41:42 <Lemon> so well, im fine
41:58 <hsn93> we got some funny co names here : https://snipboard.io/EYbtFB.jpg
42:36 <hsn93> scammers ? what they do ?
43:06 <hsn93> for such a thing we sell cash ... ?
43:13 <Lemon> when they see a new laptop for sale, they send you a message like 'is it avalaible ? if yes I pay 40 euros for chronopost blabla you say ok okright then they send you a fake paypal saying 'alright I paid'
44:27 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tektronix-TDS-744A-Color-Four-Channel-Digitizing-Oscilloscope-500MHz-1/322424090304?hash=item4b11f92ec0:g:xLUAAOSwI59aQg85 this one is 520 with shipping but in good shape, just dirty
45:09 * Ampera stabs Halcyon in the trachea
45:45 <Halcyon> Bitch
46:24 <rust_collector> some people need too much laptop
46:32 <rust_collector> which is good for you, I guess
47:52 * Ampera hugs Halcyon 
47:53 <steve30> Halcyon, I'm back from my Coronavirus-preparations :D
47:55 <Ampera> how are you doing fren
48:02 * Ampera sneezes on steve30 
48:17 <Halcyon> So you're on PREP?
48:27 <steve30> lol
48:31 <Ampera> there now you have AIDS, Ampera Immune Deficiency Syndrome
49:34 <rust_collector> where is mr Y? does he think working from home means sleeping and shopping all day?
54:03 <rust_collector> Lemon, I guess 4 channels is something. does the other one also have a floppy drive?
54:18 <Lemon> hmmm im not sure
54:33 <rust_collector> that is the main feature on those
55:02 <Lemon> but yeah either I pay 230 euros more to get an extra 1gs/s, maybe more features, and im not sure if the sample rate is divided by channels
55:16 <Lemon> or I get the 540 and keep the 230 euros for something else
55:34 <rust_collector> meh, is the 540 a 4 channel?
55:38 <Lemon> yeah
55:45 <rust_collector> go for that one
55:52 <Lemon> but sample rate is divided, like you get 1gs/s if 1 channel, 500 if two, 250 if 4
55:55 <Lemon> but well thats alright
56:34 <Lemon> the 744a is also a 4 channel
56:37 Join: mikjaer ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
56:42 <Lemon> if sample rate isnt divided, I might consider it
56:48 <Lemon> 2gs/s per channel is really nice
56:59 <rust_collector> sure, but it it twice as nice?
57:18 <Lemon> kinda yes, for example if I use 4 channels I get almost 10 times the sample rate
57:21 <Lemon> if its not divided
57:42 <Lemon> and I think its hackable
58:25 <rust_collector> pfffff... yes. will you need that for anything? if you look at it that way, just save up and get a nice $16k scope, because it does allthethings
58:41 <Lemon> nah you know how I works, I try to get the best bang/buck
58:52 <Lemon> but if I can spend a little more to gain a huge deal
58:55 <Lemon> thats worth it
58:57 <rust_collector> yes, and half the price gives a good bang
59:09 <Lemon> yeah thats true too
59:29 <Lemon> but if I can get a nice enough scope that wont make me want to upgrade in one month
59:31 <Lemon> thats great too
59:40 <Halcyon> Sorry Ampera
59:43 <Lemon> I like scopes but not as much as dmms
59:44 <Halcyon> Was distracted before
59:48 * Halcyon licks Ampera
00:00 <Ampera> Halcyon, stop looking at your boyfriends junk then >:(
00:51 * steve30 needs to make a telephone call
01:00 * Ampera passes steve30 his Model 500
01:13 <Ampera> just don't dial into a DTMF only system
01:17 * Halcyon looks at Ampera's junk instead
01:30 <Ampera> it's woefully unimpressive
03:44 <Lemon> ha the sample rate is divided too on the 744a
04:50 <Halcyon> Meh, I'll be the judge of that
04:50 <rust_collector> did you... math thing shipping... things
05:46 <Lemon> math thing shipping ?
06:01 <rust_collector> shipping and price
06:24 <Lemon> ha, for the scope I already counted it in the price
06:33 <Lemon> its like 430 + 80 shipping or so
06:39 <rust_collector> if they come by helicopter from greenland, it would be expensive
06:45 <Lemon> the 290 euros one I can get it personnally
07:07 <rust_collector> as long as you think about it...
07:28 <Lemon> but I really wonder if I can hack them
07:36 <Lemon> people talk about it but theres no much clear infos
09:17 <rust_collector> sure you can.
09:27 <rust_collector> like everything else
09:47 <Lemon> because if I can uphack the 540, that would be a nice bonus
09:53 <Lemon> I think I'll go for this one
09:58 <Lemon> 290 euros is a nice price
10:08 <Lemon> and I mean, I'll rarely use 4 channels
10:18 <Lemon> with two I get 500ms/s
10:24 <Lemon> thats manageable
10:46 <rust_collector> I sort of want the little single channel... I do not remember which of the krauts it was that had it
10:55 <Lemon> the tek 502 ?
10:58 <Lemon> or something like this
10:58 <rust_collector> it was just cute
11:00 <rust_collector> no
11:10 <rust_collector> I don't think it was 502,
11:14 <rust_collector> uuh, but maybe
11:27 <rust_collector> it was pretty tiny
11:36 <Lemon> then no
11:45 <Lemon> I think I see which one you think about but I forgot the name
11:52 <Lemon> theres an ultra small one that runs on battery
11:53 <rust_collector> it was in a pic next to a hameg, iIrc
11:57 <Lemon> its funny
14:31 <rust_collector> but, that is not in any kind of budget at the moment.
15:29 <rust_collector> I should probably pop open my scope, and see if I can clean up the switches a bit.
16:12 <rust_collector> i am ok with my almost no spec at all scope. but the channel 1 switch is a bit touchy
16:35 <Lemon> yeah I get that on my hamegs
16:49 <rust_collector> I wish it was,
16:52 <rust_collector> but nah
17:22 <rust_collector> but it is ok
17:23 <Lemon> fucking ebay lagging when I want to search something
17:47 <rust_collector> yes, I am sure ebay is lagging, lol
18:12 <Lemon> it is !
18:20 <Lemon> everything works perfectly
18:22 <Lemon> besides fucking ebay
18:26 <rust_collector> they have a warning out, about a dos attack from france, so maybe slow down your searching a tiny bit?
18:57 <Lemon> mehhhh
19:00 <Lemon> lets check leboncoin
19:03 <Lemon> which is usually even worse
24:46 <rust_collector> I should look at some transistors.
27:32 <Lemon> you can access ebay.fr ?
27:44 <Lemon> ha finally
27:45 <Lemon> it works
28:03 <rust_collector> No, I am not in the eu, officially
31:09 <rust_collector> hmm, st or on? I bet it makes no difference in my case
31:42 <Lemon> st ?
32:01 <Lemon> I scanned leboncoin and ebay, the 540 at 290euros is def the best deal avalaible
32:57 <rust_collector> st microelectronics, or on semiconductors
33:06 <Lemon> ha alright
33:12 <Lemon> take both
33:50 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
34:07 <Lemon> im also really tempted about the 3456a
34:15 <Lemon> I see so many people saying good things about it
34:40 <Lemon> I'd love a 7 or 8.5 digits dmm but lets be real, besides the price, theres too much noise on last digits
34:45 <Lemon> its already the case on my fluke
34:55 <Lemon> so 6.5 is nice, and the hp got tons of options
35:20 <Lemon> also I wanted a pulse gen for various things, calibration of my scopes being one
35:31 <rust_collector> you have more than you need, and stacking a meter on a meter, on a meter is sort of not very useful, imo
36:21 <rust_collector> get one of each thing, and get by with a handheld meter, if you need a second one, or third, or more
36:28 <Lemon> well it is, with one I can measure volts, the other can measure amps, or I can accurately measure two things at once etc
36:41 <Lemon> and also theres the aspect
36:43 <Lemon> that I like it
36:49 <rust_collector> yes, but it takes a ton of space all the time
36:52 <Lemon> sometimes, theres no justifications to give
36:58 <Lemon> well about the space !
37:03 <Lemon> I have a table now :>
37:10 <Lemon> I just have to move my desk and bam
37:13 <Lemon> I can stack a lot of things
37:26 <rust_collector> screw a table, you will need a barn in no time
37:32 <Lemon> haha maybe !
38:16 <rust_collector> heh, I wonder how much ebay wants for these transistors
38:37 <Lemon> all the money !
38:54 <rust_collector> you mean... both the money?
39:07 <rust_collector> i think I have 2
40:17 <Lemon> both the money yes
40:29 <Lemon> ho I salvaged some nice resistors in the broken fluke module mamalala gave me
40:33 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
40:40 <rust_collector> well, they were not that much cheaper than mouser, and it would take about a month less time
40:44 <Lemon> 3 of them, 0.08% and 0.1% ones I think, with weird values
40:54 <Lemon> hi Ysjoelfir !
40:58 <rust_collector> weird values are good
41:08 <Lemon> like a 272,84k
41:11 <rust_collector> HI ySJOELFIR
41:24 <rust_collector> sounds good
41:39 <Ysjoelfir> Thank you, thank you. you may bow now, indifels.
41:59 <rust_collector> maybe the precision part comes from just making a resistor, then marking it as whatever it turns out to be?
42:20 <rust_collector> may I lick your shoes, master?
43:05 <Ysjoelfir> No. I wear barefoot shoes, they don't like water. But you are allowed to massage my back.
43:21 <rust_collector> meh
44:13 <rust_collector> would you buy st, or on parts? I guess both are same-ish anyway
44:49 <Ysjoelfir> I personally would prefer ST, but only because I don't like ons datasheets
44:54 <rust_collector> and, was it you, that has the tiny tek, next to a hameg?
44:58 <rust_collector> well, that is something
45:27 <Ysjoelfir> yes. I have some more of those. 502A, great machines. Everyone should own one, especially Lemon!
45:37 <Lemon> heh it was indeed the 502
46:06 <rust_collector> o reallynow
47:01 <rust_collector> I wonder if it was mommyllama
47:24 <hsn93> hah Ysjoelfir long time no see
47:46 <rust_collector> hsn93, you should look more often
48:11 <hsn93> :(
48:33 <Ysjoelfir> no. ot was me :) I don't know if _mamalala has also one of those great scopes. But we need to convince Lemon that he needs one.
48:39 <Ysjoelfir> Hi hsn93 :)
48:55 <hsn93> how is u ? :)
49:13 <hsn93> no corona ? working from home ?
49:21 <rust_collector> I mean a less great one, more suited to my collection of mostly useless stuff that just looks cute
49:52 <rust_collector> san miguel here
49:59 <rust_collector> (I think it was called)
50:10 <Ysjoelfir> great, thanks :) how about you? I am on vacation today and tomorrow, because of my birthday tomorrow
50:14 <hsn93> is using linux in commercial product means you have to make it open source ?
50:23 <rust_collector> no
50:25 <hsn93> nice
50:38 <hsn93> happy birthday to u
50:43 <Ysjoelfir> no, but you have to provice sources and licenses for the used open source products.
50:50 <Ysjoelfir> oh, rust_collector: you want something cure?
50:51 <hsn93> but linux is gpl v2
50:54 <Ysjoelfir> *cute
51:00 <rust_collector> I dunno
51:05 <Ampera> good morning Ysjoelfir
51:06 <Ysjoelfir> let me show you something
51:37 <rust_collector> I am on a very tight budget for some time now, so... not much will be bought
53:29 <Lemon> hey Ysjoelfir https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/13707-gossen-pantam-konstanter-t4-15-5-adjustable-transformer-power-supply.html
53:34 <Lemon> watcha think of this baby ?
54:16 <Lemon> could it be a simple project for me to fix ?
54:44 <rust_collector> could be, and in any case, it is a nice case
54:57 <Lemon> I mean, theres only passive components in there no ?
55:12 <Lemon> nothing unobtainmium ?
55:22 <rust_collector> probably mostly yes
55:44 <Lemon> I think Im going to buy the 3456a on this website when I
55:48 <Lemon> I'll have the funds
56:01 <Lemon> and give you the money at the same occasion
56:08 <rust_collector> did you really order the 540 yet?
56:15 <Lemon> noooo
56:21 <rust_collector> weeeellll?
56:26 <Lemon> dont worry you'll know it when I'll get it !
56:38 <Lemon> the dude is keeping it until 20th march for me
56:40 <rust_collector> I am not afraid I won't hear about it
56:51 <Ysjoelfir> it could be, yes.
57:16 <hsn93> "If you distribute this software in an executable, you must make your source code available by providing it alongside your distribution or listing an offer, good for 3 years, to obtain the code. "
57:36 <Ysjoelfir> don't worry rusty, I probably won't sell that one at all^^ It's... a memory for me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OnGhurs8SHjz_9VDSyicPs5yQIyUk0sC/view?usp=sharing
58:12 <rust_collector> hah!
58:39 <Ysjoelfir> isn't that cute?
58:41 <rust_collector> that is pretty neat
59:10 <Ysjoelfir> When I get my next tek on the bench I place it untop and make a photo^^
59:15 <Ysjoelfir> *ontop
02:09 <hsn93> yeah tek loves to be on top
02:38 <Lemon> https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/13638-eurelco-model-2000-digital-phase-meter.html
02:42 <Lemon> how useful is a phase meter ?
03:07 <rust_collector> they make good cases if you gut them
05:12 <rust_collector> HEY! they still have somekind of power supply, in case
05:17 <rust_collector> https://odnd.nl/misc/12073-somekind-of-power-supply-in-case-.html
05:31 <Lemon> yes it came from here lol
05:40 <Lemon> the famous somekind of power supply in a case
05:44 <rust_collector> I know, but it is still there
05:47 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:29 <rust_collector> I think you need one of these things: https://odnd.nl/misc/11515-aeq-rne45-vintage-portable-broadcast-field-mixer.html
07:37 <Lemon> I need all the things
07:53 <rust_collector> I have noticed that, so... there is one of them
09:00 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
09:38 <Lemon> https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/2694-avitel-vme-190-cable-length-meter.html
12:26 <rust_collector> https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/14030-data-precision-model-245-multi-meter.html
12:50 <rust_collector> that is perfect. looks like an alarmclock, and has a wrist strap
14:06 <Lemon> Ysjoelfir, from the look, you can tell if the 3456a has squishy or clicky buttons ?
14:22 <rust_collector> they also have a somekind of timer, from aeg
17:18 <Ysjoelfir> sure
17:41 <Lemon> https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/13357-hewlett-packard-3456a-digital-voltmeter.html
18:03 <rust_collector> just from pics, I think they are clicky plastic buttons?
18:18 <Ysjoelfir> correct
18:21 <rust_collector> https://whatever.sdfa3.org/images/hp3456a/1.0011v.jpg
18:27 <Lemon> yay
18:40 <Lemon> well theres great chances that I'll take it with that gossen psu
19:18 <Lemon> I love the look of it
21:04 <rust_collector> https://odnd.nl/39-lab-equipment?page=4
21:14 <rust_collector> that is a special look
49:10 <hsn> whatever (what a subdomain namE)
49:14 <hsn> :)
50:03 <rust_collector> maps.wherever.etc etc etc
56:06 <Lemon> I want to learn how to use the gpib interface with my instruments
56:09 <Lemon> could be fun
57:49 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
59:05 <rust_collector> general purpose internet balloon. yes, that would be interesting
59:16 <Lemon> heh !
59:27 <Lemon> the 3456a got a lot of interesting things
59:30 <rust_collector> you should get a raspberry pi and use an app on your phone
59:39 <Lemon> and theres tons of people who wrote tutorials to improve it etc
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