#eevblog - 2020-03-08 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2020-03-08

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« 2020-03-07 2020-03-09 »
25:52 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
25:52 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Changing hosts
03:10 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) EOF from client
49:55 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:22 Quit: Lord_of_nothing ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
18:54 Join: Lord_of_nothing ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:07 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://www.reddit.com/r/PartyParrot/comments/femhwi/maria_woke_up_cheerful_today_that_last_peep_is_so/
23:34 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
56:48 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
56:54 <Lemon> bonjour
57:02 <rust_collector> WHAT?!!?
57:24 <Lemon> ;o
07:56 <Lemon> rust !!!
07:58 <Lemon> theres a deal
08:02 <Lemon> one of those really nice deals
08:08 <rust_collector> uhuh
08:25 <Lemon> I told you I was looking for a nice digital scope, 500mhz + with nice sampling
08:35 <Lemon> a dude sells a tek tds 540 for 290 euros with some options
08:44 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUi0YdGXle4
08:47 <rust_collector> okeh
08:48 <Lemon> in good shape, working etcetc
08:51 <Lemon> last cal in 2011
08:59 <Lemon> its a 500mhz 1gs/s scope
09:19 <rust_collector> could be worse
10:15 <rust_collector> is it close enough that you can go pick it up?
10:55 <Lemon> its close enough yeah maybe 2-3 hours by car, doable
11:11 <Lemon> I asked him if he can wait a bit
11:16 <Lemon> I need to gather the cash
11:54 <Lemon> https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1731202896.htm/
11:57 <Lemon> its really a nice deal
12:29 <rust_collector> well.
12:45 <Lemon> they usually sell for more, closer to 400-450
12:54 <Lemon> this one is in perfect shape with an interesting option
15:19 <DHess_US> "Trump got Bloomberg to infuse 700 million into the economy."
18:29 <Ampera> lol
19:45 <DHess_US> https://gunfreezone.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/corona-virus-john-wick.jpg
26:33 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
26:59 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
42:54 <rust_collector> great, so it is just 9 years since it was calibrated, lol
44:41 <rust_collector> I am sure it is a pretty good device. just remember it is old, no matter how you look at it. yes, it is fast, but I do not think the memory is much to talk about. But yeah. it is probably not a horrible deal
45:04 <Lemon> well 1gs/s is pretty alright honestly
45:21 <Lemon> and those scopes are no slouch spec wise, compared to similar specced chinese stuff
45:36 <Lemon> for this price new, you get what those days ? 70mhz, 1gs/s chinese boi ?
45:48 <Lemon> and yes you are right its old but not that old actually compared to the rest of my stuff :>
45:50 <rust_collector> probably a 100 now
45:54 <Lemon> it will probably be one of the youngest
45:58 <Lemon> yeah maybe 100
46:07 <Lemon> but with much worse trigger/sensibility
46:17 <Lemon> thats something to take in account
46:17 <rust_collector> well, that is the thing, your old stuff was made in a completely different way.
46:26 <Lemon> yeah
46:36 <rust_collector> it is too new to be old
46:43 <Lemon> I trust this tek a lot more than a new rigol (even if they are nice, I saw one irl !)
46:46 <Lemon> ho also dude
46:51 <Lemon> I got the aliexpress leads today
46:52 <rust_collector> but yeah, it would probably cover your needs for some time
47:00 <Lemon> and guess what, cables are really nice, im pretty impressed
47:08 <Lemon> yeah for a long time !
47:09 <rust_collector> ok
47:29 <rust_collector> how much copper did they put in them?
47:58 <Lemon> its thin !
48:03 <Lemon> connectors are meh at best
48:10 <Lemon> but well for the price and some low power stuff, they are cool
48:15 <rust_collector> sure
48:15 <Lemon> I expected way worse
48:21 <Lemon> they feel like silicone
48:56 <rust_collector> that is what worried me, lol. if you have pretty much no metal, they will probably feel very nice and soft
49:06 <rust_collector> but, as long as you know
49:19 <Lemon> yeah I wouldnt put more than a few amps in those
51:14 <Lemon> I have the other ones for more power, they are a bit thicker
51:18 <Lemon> but anyway I dont need it
51:29 <rust_collector> I had a set with bananas on one end, and croc clips on the other, and they sort of self regulated to charge a laptop battery, lol
51:32 <Lemon> my psus give 2.2 amp max, maybe 4+ if I parallel them
51:45 <Lemon> heh yeah I see lol
52:04 <Lemon> I l ike those croco clips on, they are cheapos but better than a dedicated cable
52:15 <Lemon> you want a test lead ? fine, you want a croco ? just clip it on
52:20 <Lemon> one day I'll get those mueller ones
52:39 <rust_collector> didn't you get a bucket of random leads?
53:38 <Lemon> I got 10 pairs of good ones, 5 pairs of aliexpress ones, 2 pairs of only male of various colors, really good quality and thick (from mamalala) + 2 pairs of the same quality/various colors but security bananas
53:54 <Lemon> so yeah im fine with test leads now lol I'd like to get more security ones tho
53:57 <Lemon> they are neat
54:05 <rust_collector> ehm, ok
06:14 <Lemon> well I redid the ad for my laptop
06:20 <Lemon> 700 euros seems to be an honest price
06:43 <Lemon> people sell it for 800 usually, but as mine got a tired battery which cost 50 euros, 700 is fine
06:56 <Lemon> then I need to clean the desktop to sell it 150 euros, a guy want it so its fine
07:08 <Lemon> and I have money right now
08:06 <rust_collector> you have to love people who like reading computer specs
15:09 <Lemon> I love it
15:09 <Lemon> :>
16:04 <Lemon> I'll need probes for the scope too
16:08 <Lemon> mine are good for 200mhz only
16:17 <Lemon> well it will be fine to begin with
26:19 <rust_collector> I just tested if the usb scope still works
26:39 <rust_collector> and... windows has thrown out the usb driver, again
26:43 <rust_collector> so that is fun
38:06 Join: Guest|5929 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
44:35 Quit: Guest|5929 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
07:53 <Lemon> lol the ad is online, 2 minutes later already some scammer trying to get me
09:09 <rust_collector> hello, I am kalling from internet security company. We want to elp yoo
09:32 <Lemon> yeah regular peeps
09:45 <Lemon> this one was like 'hello is it still avalaible ? please contact me on my mail'
10:23 <Lemon> 100% he will tell me 'I'll give you 30 euros upfront for you to keep the laptop, then I'll transfer the rest of funds tommorow'
10:28 <Lemon> and I'll get a fake paypal mail
11:05 <rust_collector> papal.com
12:34 <Lemon> paipol.scm
27:00 <Ysjoelfir> papam.obil?
27:26 <rust_collector> some east asian phone company?
27:44 <Ysjoelfir> yes
28:09 <rust_collector> I guess they need some business too
29:35 <Ysjoelfir> potentially?
30:25 <rust_collector> so, it looks like it is starting to snow again, and pizza is almost done
30:39 <Lemon> hey Ysjoelfir ! a tek tds 540 in perfect shape, working with one option (memory depths omething) for 290 euros, watcha think ?
30:46 <rust_collector> this is the 3rd day of pizza in a row
30:51 <Lemon> 500Mhz, 1Gs/s !
31:12 <Ysjoelfir> nice rusty. with corn I hope? :)
31:19 <Ysjoelfir> Lemon: Sounds about right imho
31:34 <Lemon> im really tempted, if my laptop sells fast enough
31:38 <rust_collector> I went for the frog version today, so just sliced garlic
31:41 <Lemon> but so many things tempt me :>
31:48 <Lemon> that 200 euros something hp 3456a too
31:57 <Ysjoelfir> thats also pretty nice :
32:06 <Ysjoelfir> and that too
32:57 <rust_collector> I wonder if he will have enough tools to figure out how to get his fuel sending unit working one of these days
33:48 <Lemon> pffrrtt :> im so lazy to fix that honestly
33:58 <Ysjoelfir> hm?
33:59 <rust_collector> I mean, it is mostly analog simple stuff...
34:12 <Ysjoelfir> you want to send me free fuel? nice!
34:44 <rust_collector> I need le-mon to program the gas can
35:51 <Lemon> hmmm I cant fnd that surplus website
35:58 <Lemon> I linked it multiple times here
37:33 <rust_collector> oh, yes, holland-land was blocked from the internet
42:15 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-3457A-6-5-digit-6-1-2-digit-Multimeter-DMM/114108748184?epid=1300453786&hash=item1a91695198:g:qwIAAOSwl9xeQhp1
42:19 <Lemon> so many great things
42:34 <Lemon> 385 usd for a 7.5 digit dmm is really, really nice
43:25 <Lemon> and I think it got the multiplexer option
45:25 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-3457A-Multimeter/283748322055?epid=1300453786&hash=item4210b7cb07:g:j48AAOSw1kxeIvTc 400 usd, hmmmm
45:36 <Lemon> I never thought it was that 'cheap'
45:48 <Lemon> well its not cheap, 400 usd is some significant money
45:52 <Lemon> but for a 7.5 digits dmm
45:55 <Lemon> thats impressive
47:13 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Hewlett-Packard-3457A-Digital-Multimeter/153750708765?hash=item23cc41a21d:g:HAMAAOSwrphd07Io
47:16 <Lemon> please stop
47:30 <Lemon> well I might get to pay custom fees
54:46 <Lemon> my love for dmms could lead me to get one, if I get the funds by selling the laptop
19:09 Quit: _mamalala_ ([email protected]) Quit: Connection reset by beer
26:39 Join: mamalala ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
27:10 <Ysjoelfir> I got some funds by selling the motors I wanted to convince you to take :D
29:16 <Ysjoelfir> oh, speaking of funds - you still owe me some :P
29:58 <Ysjoelfir> and mamalala: I found some people at work that were interested in sharing some of the radio stuff and even some bettys^^
30:32 <rust_collector> sharing betty
31:08 <Ysjoelfir> you know it was coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2D8Eo15wE
32:52 <rust_collector> mmh, more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9HEoCbzZH0
32:55 <Lemon> ho yes thats totally true !! does it bothers you if it waits until I sell the laptop/desktop ?
33:15 <Lemon> and thats great for motors !!
33:19 <Ysjoelfir> no problem citrôen :)
33:46 <Lemon> honestly, as much as I like to hoard stuff, sometimes I prefer that people who really likes it to take it :P
33:51 <Lemon> ok cool thanks :>
35:37 <Lemon> btw, when they say '% of reading, 0.0035' for a dmm accuracy
35:56 <Lemon> on the 30v range
36:59 <Lemon> hmmm I forgot my question
37:44 <Ysjoelfir> then the answer probably was yes
38:07 <Lemon> yeah
38:29 <Lemon> im surprised because it seems the hp 3457a is less accurate than the fluke I have
39:04 <Lemon> my fluke is stated for 0.0006% for 24 hours specs on the 10v range
40:25 <Lemon> the 3457a got 0.0035% on the 30v range
41:01 <Lemon> and they keep stating its 6.5 digits, is the 7th digit only resolution ?
41:04 <Lemon> like, its not accurate ?
41:10 Join: Chipguy ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:03 <Ysjoelfir> well, just because something has a high resolution it must not be accurate
43:16 <Lemon> yeah sure but common its a 7.5 digit dmm
43:26 <Lemon> even on the 6.5 digit mode its less accurate
43:28 <Lemon> thats weird
43:42 <Ysjoelfir> I have the feeling that the 3457 is rather cheap for a reason
43:43 <Lemon> and the 7th digit is here via GPIB
43:47 <Lemon> yeah
43:53 <Ysjoelfir> i mean, beside the absolutely horrible display
43:53 <Lemon> im not interested anymore :>
44:01 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: the boop fimware eve plays a bit of black betty n bootup... well, it did originally... dunno hiw much is still left in there :)
44:04 <Lemon> yeah like my keithley
44:17 <Ysjoelfir> lol^^
45:08 <mamalala> damn wireless keyboard... needs some fresh batteries, it's dropping keypresses ... damn cheap crap :P
45:21 <mamalala> i should build a wireless module for a model-m...
45:40 <rust_collector> I want my meter to play some bathory when I start it up
46:30 <mamalala> Lemon: did you get my email from a few days or so back? about the tasty wine?
46:55 <rust_collector> beef flavoured wine?
46:56 <Lemon> yes I answered you !
47:15 <mamalala> Lemon: hu? never received anything... strange
48:10 <Lemon> ho weird, well I told you that it can be done ! the guy that sells it doesnt have a shop, he is open from time to time, so as soon as I can see him I get a box of 6 from him :>
48:17 <mamalala> Lemon: the last email i got from you was on february 21st, before you went on your journey to krautland
48:39 <Lemon> and using mondial relay it shouldnt cost a lot !
48:45 <mamalala> Lemon: ahh, perfect!! let me know what i owe you, and what your paypal is
49:17 <Lemon> sure, as soon as I see him, I check on mondial relay and I tell you that :>
49:23 <Lemon> you want the red wine right ?
49:59 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: yeah, the radios are quite a mix of rather obscure ones... and the sommerkamp radios are pretty good ones, rather expensive back in the day... too bad that the big one has a bad IC for the SSB side
50:23 <mamalala> Lemon: that stuff you brought here... guess it was red?
50:36 <Lemon> there was one red and a white one :>
50:45 <Lemon> but yes I think you liked the red most !
50:59 <mamalala> yes, the wine was the red one
52:00 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: although, the big Jumbo is a nice home station as well... once you put it back together... haha
52:15 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: schematics should be on the net somewhere, if you google for that stuff
52:39 <mamalala> even should have them somewhere on some backup/archive drive here... but i'm too lazy to search for that
52:44 <Ysjoelfir> exactly that big sommerkamp went to a workmate. He has the same one there with a broken switch and wants to make one working from two broken
52:56 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: ahh, nice!
53:09 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: the finals are good in that one, as is most of the stuff in it...
53:31 <mamalala> nice to see that this old stuff is useful to some
54:18 <mamalala> the small sommerkamp is AM only, btw... but i guess you figured that out already :)
54:55 <Ysjoelfir> yes^^
55:25 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: and i forgot to include something... a bunch of small 50 ohms power resistors... and a dummy load i made of a few of them... ahh well...
55:43 <Ysjoelfir> I'm sure lemon will come back some day :P
55:50 <mamalala> hehe
56:00 <Ysjoelfir> or we all visit rust_collector in norge
56:09 <Ysjoelfir> it's a pretty beautiful land
56:30 <rust_collector> hmm, I do have 2 rooms extra now
56:40 <mamalala> meh, i can't really travel... what with all my cats... no one who could care for them for a while... plus, i'm not a travelling person anyways
56:54 <mamalala> it's cold, that's what it is ... :P
56:56 <rust_collector> I might not live in the pretty part of the country anyway
57:46 <rust_collector> what? cold here?
57:47 <rust_collector> nah
58:18 <rust_collector> I live sort of to the south. it is not too different to where you live
58:19 <mamalala> rust_collector: i lived in travemünde for four years... and that was already very cold
58:29 <rust_collector> blah blah
58:45 <mamalala> but then, it also was 30+ years ago... climate got much milder nowdays
58:56 <mamalala> :P
58:58 <Lemon> hey Ysjoelfir, I think Im going to buy a 100 ohms and 10Kohms vishay resistors, those https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/71-Z201T10K000VB
59:15 <rust_collector> there are places that are very cold in this country, but... not here. I think we have not even seen -20 this year
59:18 <Lemon> at work, do you have something to calibrate them ?
59:28 <Lemon> to at least 7 digits ?
59:35 <rust_collector> how do you calibrate a resistor?
00:02 <mamalala> rust_collector: by meassuring it exactly and writing it down...
00:05 <Lemon> you compare it to a known value, or measure it with something which you know the uncertainty
00:10 <mamalala> from what i know, calibration != adjustment
00:25 <Lemon> yeah I kept mixing those two
00:25 <rust_collector> that is not calibrating, it is measuring it?
00:41 <Lemon> calibrating is basically measuring it, comparing it against a known standard
00:50 <Lemon> adjusting is what you think calibrating is
00:56 <Lemon> yes thats not really logical
01:04 <Lemon> for me calibrating is modifying, adjusting something
01:05 <mamalala> like, normally if you have a multimeter calibrated, you just get a big sheet back that says what it actually reads when defined voltages/currents/resistances are applied to it ...
01:41 <rust_collector> heh, people are weird
01:43 <Lemon> so yeah I want a few resistor standards to check my stuff, especially the nice fluke :P
01:49 <mamalala> yeah, the choice of words is not really the best when it comes to "calibrating"
01:49 <Lemon> it goes down to 10 uOhms
01:56 <Ysjoelfir> [22:00:40] <Lemon> calibrating is basically measuring it, comparing it against a known standard
01:56 <Ysjoelfir> [22:00:48] adjusting is what you think calibrating is
01:58 <Ysjoelfir> exactly^^
02:11 <Ysjoelfir> and I maaaay have something at work, but I have to check that first
02:14 <Lemon> teach ysjoelfir teached me that !
02:20 <Lemon> teacher
02:22 <rust_collector> bastard
02:32 <Lemon> hoooooo
02:43 <mamalala> Lemon: have you checked the ohms stuff on the fluke, at least with some 1% resistors or so? i never did that after i plugged in the "new" ohms converter module
02:45 <rust_collector> eeh, it is just personal, don't worry about it
03:26 <mamalala> Lemon: also, if you go for precission, make sure to use a 4-wire connection when meassuring resistance then
06:30 <Ysjoelfir> I love you too, rusty <4
06:32 <Ysjoelfir> see
06:39 <rust_collector> WHEEE!
06:40 <Ysjoelfir> i love you so much, my heart even has a four, not a three
06:56 <mamalala> especially when meassuring relatively low resistance
06:56 <rust_collector> that is serious
06:59 <Lemon> yeah I need to get some banana kelvin clips
07:11 <Lemon> now I get a different value on all my dmms :> so hard to say
07:30 <Lemon> the one I have on the lcr meter are bnc
07:47 <Lemon> id like to get a proper lcr meter
07:51 <Lemon> like, a genrad or so
08:18 <mamalala> Lemon: ah, and another thing... if you meassure current with the fluke, you better do it only for short periods of time i think
08:32 <Lemon> why that ?
08:54 <mamalala> if you look into the current converter module, you can see a shitload of high precission resistors... and they usually drift a bit when they heat up... that is, when current passes through them...
09:13 <Lemon> ha yes true ! isnt it engeenered a certain way to avoid that ?
09:18 <Lemon> I rarely measure current anyway
09:55 <mamalala> well, yes and no... for the lower ranges it's probably OK... but i think you don't want to pump 1 amp through it for an hour or so, while still expecting highly accurate results
10:16 <Lemon> ha yeah I think thats for any dmm, you need something made for that I think
10:24 <Lemon> but for a few seconds/minutes it should be alright :>
10:28 <mamalala> yea
11:24 <mamalala> there's so much stuff to be careful about when using such high precission instruments
11:53 <mamalala> i mean, heck, even the "wrong" kind of banana plug can skew the results when meassuring voltages
11:53 <Lemon> thats true !
12:02 <Lemon> now THIS is a true lcr meter https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-4192A-LF-ImpedanceAnalyzer-LCR-Meter-5hz-13MHz-Guaranteed-GOOD/133352617668?epid=1422436398&hash=item1f0c6f76c4:g:T9oAAOSw4tJeUUaP
12:15 <Lemon> what is the wrong kind ?
12:20 <Lemon> I thought about that
12:24 <mamalala> like, two dissimilar metals, and some natural moisture, and you get a "battery" in series, even if it is only a few µV
13:23 <Lemon> hmmmmm
13:27 <mamalala> ha, that HP is the perfect instrument to make sure the decoupling caps in a digital circuit are OK ... hahaha
13:30 <Lemon> now I wonder what kind of plugs I need
14:28 <mamalala> dunno... isn't gold the preferred material in such applications? no idea, though
14:41 <mamalala> i mean, gold plated plugs
14:58 <Lemon> yeah but if I use gold and the fluke got copper connector
15:08 <Lemon> it can be aproblem no ?
15:10 <Lemon> like you said
15:34 <Ysjoelfir> you usually want pure copper contacts
15:45 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: ah, ok, didn't know that
16:00 <rust_collector> The gold is probably more to beep them free from oxidation, so they stay close enough over more time
16:13 <Ysjoelfir> every plating on contacts adds another material, including thermal voltages :)
16:27 <Ysjoelfir> exactly rusty
16:28 <mamalala> i just remembered that there was an issue... because of the electronics i designed a long time ago for thermocouples
17:22 <Lemon> Ysjoelfir, how do you call those black/red banana female plug, that you would use to build a resistor standard or whatever that needs those two ?
17:30 <Lemon> im trying to find them on fucking mouser
19:11 <Ysjoelfir> hah. i also stumbled over that problem. I couldn't find them in any english search engine on digikey, which is my prefered distributor. using the german search I could find them using the term "Sicherheitslaborbuchsen". but in english... 4mm safety connector would be my term, but.
19:29 <Ysjoelfir> maybe one of the natives like T3sl4 could give us a hint how exactly those are called?
19:35 <mamalala> shrouded banana plug
19:41 <mamalala> or socket
19:50 <rust_collector> safety jack 4mm should get you something, if you want safety
20:02 <mamalala> or what rust_collector said
20:28 <mamalala> but then, he virtually lives at the north pole, so what does he know ... :P
20:54 <rust_collector> https://no.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/72930-2?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvdy8WAlGWLcBB255AiqHmg
21:08 <rust_collector> not much, but we have yandex
21:23 <mamalala> is that some kind of spandex?
21:35 <rust_collector> you can get that there, yes
21:46 <mamalala> :P
22:51 <rust_collector> best part of a windows install, is when you open that browser thing, type in ya.ru, so you can find your drivers
23:04 <mamalala> haha
23:34 <mamalala> best thing on a windows install, assuming you work for a customer and get paid by the hour, is installing all the updates...
24:01 <mamalala> let it search for updates, install them... then search again, install those, etc... until it finds no more updates
24:11 <rust_collector> heh, yes
24:40 <mamalala> and of course you then need to check that everything still works after all those updates...
24:59 <mamalala> i mean, win10 is getting a really bad reputation for breaking things with updates
25:15 <rust_collector> yes, I just had to track down the owon usb driver, which was gone
25:37 <rust_collector> mom in law had windows update the wifi driver, which was very handy
25:51 <rust_collector> POP! no more internet
26:05 <mamalala> yeah... it does fantastic stuff, even with the simplest of things
27:01 <rust_collector> I can do without internet on my windows machine, so updates is not a priority. I just want it to do the car diagnostics, and the usb scope.
27:07 <mamalala> the almeter machines i build, they use USB CDC... that is, windows detects them as standard USB serial device... well, the never ones do, the older windows version still need a .inf file that tells it to use the standard usbser.sys
27:36 <mamalala> anyways... it happend two times so far that some win10 update killed that stuff
27:55 <mamalala> *newer
28:36 <mamalala> and with "killed" i mean it still detects it as a serial port, but introduces some quirks in the communications to the device itself
29:01 <mamalala> so i had to update the firmware two times just to accomodate some windows specific quirks
29:20 <mamalala> otoh, on linux it just works...
30:15 <rust_collector> I wish I could get the owon stuff going on linux. it is mostly java, so I guess it should be possible. some people have made it almost work, but not really
30:41 <rust_collector> but it has been a while since I looked at it
31:27 <mamalala> yea, windows seems to get worse and worse... i mean, win10 home edition is basically just an app to deliver advertisements to you, that also happens to be able to run some windows software
31:59 <rust_collector> I have not really looked into the different versions
32:23 <mamalala> oh, and to send back data from you to microsoft... "telemetry", my ass
32:35 <rust_collector> my 7 install was "professional" so that is what I got, I think
33:13 <mamalala> rust_collector: on the low end windows, you literally get ads placed in that pop-up thing that comes up when you click that thing that was known as "start menu" before
33:32 <rust_collector> I just look forward to the time when I have had the internet on, and I need the damn thing, and it does its "please wait while we do something"
33:51 <rust_collector> ok, I do not use the windows menu.
33:51 <mamalala> haha, yea
34:43 <mamalala> imagine that... we went from 300 bauds, to 1.2kbaud, to 33k6, etc... then we got dsl... things finally started to get faster.... and nowdays they start to get slower again
34:44 <rust_collector> I use the classic shell thing, because I just need to start my 2 things
35:00 <mamalala> because of all that java(script) shit and crap that they put into the websites
35:28 <mamalala> want to display a small image? well, let's load some mbytes of java script from a shitload of sources first
35:44 <rust_collector> I think I want the eu to make a law that says any websites should work ok, even if you use lynx
36:01 <rust_collector> ok, maybe links or elinks
36:01 <mamalala> there should be a lwas that requires web developers to do their web development on a 10mbit line
36:19 <mamalala> *law
36:36 <rust_collector> well, at least test it on that, when they are done
36:42 <mamalala> yeah
37:43 <mamalala> but instead they sit in silicon valley, develop their nifty frameworks and shit... on a gbit line or whatever... so they don't even notice that they pull in megabytes of crap from external sources just to do the simplest of things
37:57 <rust_collector> https://no.mouser.com/datasheet/2/159/d73098_101-1649062.pdf
38:20 <rust_collector> yep, the 10Gb lines makes me unhappy
38:57 <rust_collector> talking about that. the internet guy was supposed to be here yesterday, but he is sick, so will be here on the 16th
39:57 <rust_collector> Not that I know why he wants to replace my router himself. i am pretty sure I can do that
40:42 <mamalala> but but!! you need the special touch to plug it in correctly, otherwise all the bits will fall out of the socket, you see
40:56 <rust_collector> but I am pretty sure he will think my nest of wires is interesting
41:05 <mamalala> hehe
41:24 <mamalala> man, a friend of mine bought a house... helped him (still do) to completely overhaul the thing
41:31 <mamalala> the basement looks like a borg ship now
41:41 <rust_collector> perfect!
41:59 <mamalala> he insalled all new piping for water, these plastic/aluminium stuff that you crimp together
42:15 <mamalala> it came on rolls, so he had issues straightening them out
42:45 <mamalala> then he quickly gave up and just barely straightened it and crimped it all together
42:56 <rust_collector> make the outside look like the death star, and get a dalek letterbox
42:56 <mamalala> looks amazing :P
43:29 <Ampera> 2367
43:32 <Lemon> https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Hammond-Manufacturing/1590Y?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv151B%252BVDR3zIvEz67ozbGtr%252BgEmB2kfTE%3D
43:40 <mamalala> also, one can clearly see what cables i laid in there, and which ones he did
43:42 <Lemon> watcha think of this kind of box for the resistor standard ?
44:04 <rust_collector> it is a box...
44:14 * Ampera boxes rust_collector 
44:20 <mamalala> but today i finally finished his distribution box for the electric stuff...
44:24 <rust_collector> POW! WHAP!
44:27 <Lemon> yeah but do I need a special material, will it benefit from shielding etc
44:32 * Ampera smacks T3sl4 
44:52 <mamalala> Ampera: how aggressive :P
44:52 * T3sl4 kisses Ampera
45:01 * Ampera hugs T3sl4
45:05 <Ampera> mamalala, talk shit
45:07 <T3sl4> :)
45:08 * Ampera smacks mamalala 
45:09 <Ampera> get hit
45:21 <mamalala> get rekt :P
45:33 <Ampera> do you even mad bro?
45:43 <mamalala> not really
45:47 <Lemon> can you don't ?
45:56 <Ampera> Lemon, I can't even
45:56 <rust_collector> yes we can't
47:05 <rust_collector> Lemon, get one aluminium box, put in the microwave, see if anything happens inside
47:24 <Lemon> ha yeah lemme try, brb
47:38 <rust_collector> you could put an egg inside, I guess
48:05 <coppice_> that's what she said
48:38 <Ampera> coppice_, cut it out with the racist jokes
49:03 <Lemon> https://www.banggood.com/MINI-M-Stand-Soldering-Iron-Stand-Bracket-Holder-for-TS100-p-1221451.html?rmmds=detail-top-buytogether-auto&ID=6284394&cur_warehouse=CN
49:06 <Lemon> i buy dis
49:08 <rust_collector> oh, I usually get "throw some gravel in there, if you don't feel anything"
49:31 <Ampera> Lemon, that's an expensive ass stand
49:42 <rust_collector> a strapon foot?
49:49 <Ampera> you could probably make one out of a coat hanger
49:50 <rust_collector> clip on, I guess
49:54 <Lemon> dis fo mah ts100
50:04 <rust_collector> you could make many out of a coat hanger
50:20 <Ampera> there's a lot of really neat uses for a coathanger
50:26 <Ampera> really neat
50:27 <rust_collector> true
50:34 <mamalala> that stand looks like someone just bent a free coathanger into some other shape
50:35 <Lemon> YeS buT tHiS oNE iS thE oFfiCiaL OnE
50:55 <Lemon> im using a coathanger to put my test leads
50:58 <Ampera> more like awficial.
51:00 * mamalala likes his metcal stuff
51:05 <Lemon> I found one this afternoon in the house
51:09 <Lemon> works well, its a large one
51:20 <Ampera> I have a really shit soldering iron. I should probably buy a better one
51:21 <Ampera> but
51:22 <Ampera> ech
51:27 <Lemon> I wanted to buy one or two tips while im at it
51:34 <rust_collector> hmm, Does anyone know what gas soldering iron is worth getting, without being stupid expensive?
51:57 <mamalala> rust_collector: a lighter and a rusty nail?
52:02 <rust_collector> I have the yee-haw station, and it does work
52:13 <mamalala> otherwise i can recommend the weller stuff... although it's not cheap
52:17 <rust_collector> I have done that before, mamallama
52:30 <rust_collector> weller gas thing? ok
52:38 <coppice_> how many patent applications are for bending a coat hanger into an alternative, and potentially less useful, gadget?
53:07 <coppice_> weller sucks (although it didn't in the past)
53:21 <Lemon> honestly for 50 bucks the ts100 is hard to beat
53:29 <mamalala> rust_collector: weller wst2 pyropen junior
53:37 <Lemon> you just need a power brick with alight cable
54:06 <coppice_> If I just want something that's hard to beat there's some butter in the fridge
54:09 Quit: Chipguy ([email protected]) Quit: Connection closed by foreign host
54:40 <rust_collector> I will look at that
55:07 <rust_collector> I do not think a ts100 will do what I want it to
55:23 <Lemon> what do you want to do ?
55:33 <Lemon> it doesnt cut trees but its alright
55:58 <rust_collector> This is mostly for sort of heavy-ish wiers splices and such, outdoors
55:58 <mamalala> rust_collector: i can tell you from experience that you do not want to skimp on a gas powered iron...
56:29 <mamalala> that is, don't get the cheapest chinese stuff for that... some silly gas leak and your hands are toast
56:37 <rust_collector> I thin kyou are right, but if there is an ok priced one out there that works, it would be nice to know
57:13 <rust_collector> heh. have you seen my hands?
57:24 Join: steve30000000 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
57:40 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
57:54 <mamalala> rust_collector: no... but i burned mine badly a few years ago, due to a cheap grill
58:26 <mamalala> lots of grease collected at the bottom, it had no drainage holes... and just when i was turning over some sausages, that thing ignited...
58:35 <rust_collector> yeah, I get burnt or cut, or smashed about every other week.
59:10 <rust_collector> Which is good, because I can blame my typing on that
03:31 <rust_collector> Oh well, it is not a huge issue, I have some larger irons, but it would be nice to not have to wait for them to heat up
04:05 <rust_collector> and not having to drag a cable out there would also be nice
04:10 Nick: steve30000000 is now known as steve30
07:25 <mamalala> rust_collector: https://abload.de/img/left0yzyv.jpg https://abload.de/img/rightzcb73.jpg
07:52 <Ysjoelfir> dafak is that oO
08:13 <Ysjoelfir> I have auto image embedding on, being playing, and suddenly very badly burnt handy appear
08:18 <mamalala> my hands on june 18th 2016
08:21 <rust_collector> it is gloop that leaks out of people if you take their skin off
08:25 <Ysjoelfir> yikes! that must have hurt
08:50 <Lemon> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32404667200.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.713d3c0071OGSn&mp=1 im thinking of getting the B-C2 tip, I have the TS-1 right now, which is a fine tip
09:05 <mamalala> funny enough, when it happened it didn't hurt at all, because that shit burned off so quickly
09:12 <Lemon> aww shiet
09:14 <mamalala> but the healing... that hurt like shit
10:00 <mamalala> in any case... that's what can happen if you use a cheapskate grill that doesn not drain the fat that's collecting...
10:29 <rust_collector> Imo, the worst part, is when it looks like it is almost ok again, then you just crack up and things start falling off
11:08 <rust_collector> I guess you could drill a hole and put a bucket under it
11:16 <mamalala> rust_collector: well, luckily that didn't happen for me... i took a rather risky, but in the end very beneficial approach... suggested by friend who is an emergency surgeon
12:05 <mamalala> you know, how they say you shouldn't put fatty/creamy stuff on burnt skin, because of the risk of infection?
12:15 <rust_collector> meh
12:33 <mamalala> well, it's actually no problem doing that, at all... if you change the dressing at least 2 times a day
12:40 <rust_collector> just use something without perfume and shit
13:28 <mamalala> so i used a shitton of bepanthen and iodine
14:07 <mamalala> take off the old dressing, carefully clean, smear on iodine, smear a thick layer of bepanthen on compresses, dress up again... as said, at least twice a day
14:20 <mamalala> worked just fine
14:32 <rust_collector> I used to work with a guy that was up in a power pole, fixing something on a transformer, which was hit by lightning. he did look like that all over.
14:40 <rust_collector> yes, that is pretty much what they do
14:52 <mamalala> uh, yea, electrical burns are nasty
15:11 <rust_collector> well, there is that, and half a ton of transformer oil
15:34 <mamalala> when i learend electrcian, the very first thing they showed us in the "berufsschule" was images of people working on high voltage overland lines without checking first that they are turned off
16:07 <mamalala> burns you to a crisp in a second.. and you shring to some 80% or so of your original size in a flash
16:13 <mamalala> *shrink
17:11 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: oh, and btw... those images i made when it was already healing
17:50 <mamalala> you should have seen it shortly after it happened... but at that time i had no drive to make any pictures... that is, to move my hands more than absolutely required
18:58 <Ysjoelfir> I can't immagine why that could be the case
19:15 <mamalala> Ysjoelfir: here's something to de-shock you: https://abload.de/img/116241579634441554842jjkzb.jpg
19:29 <Ysjoelfir> hehe :D
20:07 <mamalala> https://abload.de/img/twiggy_cute37p37.jpg
20:25 <Lemon> hey guys you know those guard terminals on power supplies, decade boxes, dmms etc
20:30 <Lemon> how am I supposed to use them ?
20:43 <steve30> paws :)
20:44 <mamalala> Lemon: guardingly!
21:39 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Connection closed
22:05 <mamalala> and then: guard terminals on power supplies? i guess you mean the earth terminal?
22:19 <Lemon> yeah on supplies thats the earth one
22:21 <mamalala> because it wouldn't make much sense on a supply
23:15 <Lemon> so still
23:16 <mamalala> Lemon: https://doc.xdevs.com/docs/Fluke/appnotes/dack_ncsl01.pdf
23:18 <Lemon> do I need to use it ?
24:14 <Lemon> ha thanks I like those interesting articles
25:44 <mamalala> http://hparchive.com/Application_Notes/HP-AN-123.pdf
25:57 <mamalala> (from the references in that first pdf
26:33 <Lemon> niceeeee
26:39 <Lemon> if you have more of those, I love them !
26:44 <Lemon> its a nice source of infos
27:04 <rust_collector> to wait for them to heat up
27:09 <mamalala> Lemon: they are really easy to find... just enter the full title into google, and see what comes up...
27:13 <rust_collector> https://imgur.com/a/hGIAD58
27:20 <Lemon> sure, if you know the title :P
27:28 <mamalala> then go to whatever that references, and google for that :)
27:46 <mamalala> yes, which is actually in the previous document
28:05 <Lemon> ha for that ones yes but sometimes, I just dont know what to search, I look around for books etc
28:08 <Lemon> and I dont know good references
28:46 <mamalala> Lemon: for a start, check out the HP/Agilent archives for all the appnotes they have... then follow the references in those
29:04 <Lemon> i'll be doing that ! thanks :>
29:17 <mamalala> rust_collector: aww, doggos
29:25 <rust_collector> 2 of them
29:34 <mamalala> i'm more of a cat person, but cute dogs are ok too
29:45 Join: Guest|86225 (Guest86225`[email protected]) to #EEVblog
30:19 <mamalala> Lemon: HP-AN-123 is especially what you asked for... what are guard terminals, how to use, etc.
30:21 Part: Guest|86225 (Guest86225`[email protected]) from #EEVblog
30:48 <rust_collector> the cat is still in the same place as the last time I posted a pic of it
30:58 <rust_collector> the other cat is... somewhere hiding
31:08 <mamalala> Lemon: and guess how i found all that in the first place?
31:30 <mamalala> lemon: i just typed "use guard connection on dmm" into google :P
32:11 <Lemon> yes sure I was more talking about general books like 'art of electronics' etc, theres so many that sometimes its hard to know which one is worth reading :>
32:53 <mamalala> rust_collector: hehe, i have four cats inside currently... and three ferals outside that i feed (with rare visits from two more ferals)
33:41 <mamalala> Lemon: well, for such stuff i usually prefer sources like HP appnotes... after all, these guys actually built these instruments, so they surely know what they are talking about
34:05 <Lemon> yeah true, fluke did some nice ones too
34:39 <mamalala> any other external book is usually just based on such stuff... not to diminish the knowledge or work of those authors, to be sure... but they are what i would consider a second source when it comes to precission measurements
34:44 <mamalala> yea
35:33 <rust_collector> we have 2 cats, and 7 or 8 dogs atm
35:51 <mamalala> it's quite interresting to see how all these equipment manufacturers used to produce good manuals, service manuals, had their engineers write such articles, etc., and made it available for basically free
36:02 <mamalala> nowdays you get shit all
36:13 <Lemon> and you have to pay for it
36:50 <mamalala> some half-arsed user manual, no schematics, no service manual, etc... and the engineers are forbidden by tons of NDA's to speak about that stuff, because competetive advantage and whatnot
36:55 <mamalala> yea
37:17 <mamalala> but then, all these basic principles still hold true today.... yay for science
37:36 <mamalala> so the old stuff, which is still available, is also still very valid
38:24 <Lemon> today I oppenned the systron donner again, to see wheres the 10v range resistance divider
38:33 <Lemon> its really well made, with nice material, components etc
38:39 <Lemon> but sadly I couldnt take the board out
38:51 <mamalala> well...
38:54 <Lemon> something is keeping me from doing it, well I didnt want to break it
38:59 <Lemon> I might try tommorow again
39:04 <Halcyon> Morning all
39:09 <Lemon> hi :>
39:12 <mamalala> on any equipment with high precission, you don't want to take out any boards willy-nilly anyways
39:41 <Lemon> yeah I know, im trying to hold it by its edges, but I have to take it out because it reversed
39:46 <mamalala> because by merely touching them with your greasy hands you can introduce oh-so-tiny leakage paths that will throw off the accuracy
39:54 <mamalala> heya Halcyon
40:04 <Lemon> when I open the top/bottom I just get the wrong side
40:09 <Lemon> but yeah I know that
41:23 <mamalala> Lemon: but that being said, it's fairly easy to open up the modules inside the fluke... they are just clipped together... no need to touch the boards... just marvel in the engineering they did
41:25 <Lemon> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Netzwerkanalysator_ZVA40_RSD.jpg/1200px-Netzwerkanalysator_ZVA40_RSD.jpg
41:29 <Lemon> thats a bigass mofo
41:37 <Lemon> yeah thats true !
41:42 <Lemon> thats so convenient
41:54 <Lemon> btw do you know whats wrong on the ohm module you gave me ?
42:01 <mamalala> and the description of how the adc in that thing works...
42:21 <mamalala> no, i don't... it just doesn't work and has gets rather hot
42:39 <mamalala> -has
42:56 <Lemon> hmmm interesting
43:08 Part: Lemon ([email protected]) from #EEVblog
43:13 * Ampera bits Halcyon 
43:17 <Ampera> *bites
43:26 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
43:31 <Lemon> what have I done
44:17 <mamalala> Lemon: allowing yourself to be born french, after that, it all went downwards :P
44:20 <rust_collector> you bought what this time?
44:52 <Lemon> nothing yet !
44:53 <Ampera> don't make fun of Lemon for being born french, I was born french too
44:54 <Ampera> sort of
45:13 <rust_collector> heh
45:29 <rust_collector> I was just born, and that did not help much
45:36 <mamalala> Lemon: technically, i guess the old ohms converter should be somewhat easy to repair... it's all discrete parts and stuff... but to get it to the required precision, that's a whole other thing
45:46 <Ampera> rust_collector, you fool, you absolute dumbass, you complete and utter retard
45:56 <rust_collector> Yes, so?
46:12 <Lemon> yeah thats what I was thinking !
46:56 <mamalala> Lemon: that's why i never really tried to fix it in the first place... i just don't have the right tools or knowledge for that
48:49 <mamalala> i mean, for example, how to even meassure the precission resistors in that, without having an instrument that is at least a magnitude better than the unit you want to fix...
49:19 <mamalala> Lemon: that gives me an idea....
49:41 <mamalala> Lemon: i'm sure the precission resistors in that broken module are still good... or most of them, at least
49:56 <mamalala> Lemon: so no need for you to buy new ones...
50:18 <mamalala> one can assume that they are of rather high quality and long term stability, after all
50:27 <Lemon> thats true yes !
50:46 <mamalala> just be careful when unsoldering them... no excessive heat, no undue mechanical stress, etc.
50:55 <Lemon> not necessearly tight tolerances, but stable tempco etc
51:05 <mamalala> i
51:25 <mamalala> 'm somewhat sure that the ones that matter are tight tolerance as well
51:38 <mamalala> at least 0.1%, most likely even better
52:03 <Lemon> well they need to be tightly matched, like in a KV-D
52:13 <Lemon> and ultra stable
52:22 <Lemon> afterall, if you have a 1% resistor
52:28 <Lemon> but that got a 0.1ppm/C tempco
52:36 <Lemon> 1ppm/year stability etc
52:52 <Lemon> I'd take that over a 0.005% one with 1ppm/C and 5ppm/year
53:11 <Lemon> once its calibrated you dont really care about the value
53:19 <Lemon> you care about the drift
53:27 <mamalala> can only see the print on one resistor on the photo i took
53:44 <mamalala> 272.84k, -08% ...
53:56 <Lemon> the big one ?
53:58 <mamalala> .08%
54:06 <Lemon> close to 0.1% :> thats nice
54:18 <mamalala> one of the "small" golden ones
55:04 <mamalala> then there are two small black ones, on one of them i can see "40k"
55:48 * Halcyon nibbles back at Ampera
56:00 * mamalala bytes around
57:01 <mamalala> Lemon: since that old module is shot anyways, just cut them out and see what your instruments say if you meassure them... nothing to loose, after all
57:16 <Lemon> you got me tempted yes :>
58:07 <mamalala> would be interresting to see what the other two gold ones say... i guess the other "small" is +/- 0.08% as well.. but what about the big one
58:30 <mamalala> and what the small black ones say, if they even have a tolerance printed on them, that is
59:07 <Lemon> right now im going to sleep but tommorow that will be the first thing I'll do, im curious now :>
59:13 <mamalala> i mean the two black ones that directly connect to Q9 (to the lower-right of the "zero" adjust trimmer)
59:16 <Lemon> whats the best
59:23 <Lemon> desoldering them ? or cutting them
59:41 <mamalala> do you have a desoldering gun?
59:46 <Lemon> there wont be much legs left
00:07 <Lemon> no just an heated pump thats dirty af :> or my iron
00:13 <mamalala> well, enough left to clip leads onto, if you cut them out
00:32 <Lemon> that might be better anyway
00:39 <Lemon> its hard to avoid heating them
00:49 <mamalala> yea, but one can minimize it
00:50 <Lemon> especially with such tiny legs
01:02 <Lemon> when they are long you can always use some sort of heatsink
01:07 <Lemon> a crocodile clip etc
01:11 <mamalala> that is, clip them out, then solder fresh leads onto them at a low enough temp setting
01:17 <Lemon> but now... its really close to the resistor itself
01:45 <mamalala> plus, given that they are in the kohm range, the extra few miliohms introduced by using clips isn't that much of a deal
02:48 <mamalala> in any case, they are not really "calibration grade" anyways... but surely much better than whatever you have around currently... and fun to play with as well :)
03:37 <Lemon> yeah totally, but maybe if they aged well, they might be ultra stable, so if I can get them calibrated, that can be used as some sort of standard :>
03:48 <mamalala> true
04:03 <mamalala> and i'm pretty sure that they aged well
04:25 <mamalala> i mean, that instrument did cost a shitload of money back then, they didn't skimp on parts
04:38 <Lemon> yeah I really love it man !!
04:50 <mamalala> Lemon: makes me happy that you do
04:58 <Lemon> I mean, when I see some 7.5 digits dmm with worse accuracy... thats something !
05:04 <mamalala> haha
05:09 <mamalala> well...
05:22 <mamalala> save up some money, and get it to a cal lab one day
05:33 <mamalala> maybe even one that can adjust it as well
05:42 <Lemon> ho one day my desk will be a cal lab !
05:58 <mamalala> who knows, there may be someone on some volt-nut forum who can do that for an affordable price
06:14 <rust_collector> if you do something first, I might send my "best tools" dmm to you
06:17 <mamalala> well, yes, but you need to start somewhere
07:06 <mamalala> that is, if you want to cal an instrument, you need another one that is at least a magnitude better
07:55 <mamalala> Lemon: also, have you noticed something on the card-edge conecctor of these modules?
08:24 <coppice_> mamalala: if you think carefully about that claim you'll realise its bogus
08:43 <mamalala> http://atelier-klippel.de/20200208_203747.jpg
09:46 <mamalala> coppice_: how so? i mean, you have some uncertainty in any instrument, and given that tolerances are usually given as % of a reading, you surely want something that is a magnitude better, no?
10:06 <mamalala> at least that is what have learned
10:12 <coppice_> mamalala: how would the 10x better instrument ever be calibrated?
10:37 <Lemon> with primary standards :>
10:43 <Lemon> theres always an uncertainity
10:47 <Lemon> but it can be limited
10:57 <coppice_> mamalala: I'm not saying that using a way better instrument is not a common approach, but its not a necessary approach
11:23 <Lemon> mamalala on the edge ? the relay ?
12:04 <Lemon> thats a nice relay btw
13:05 <mamalala> coppice_: as lemon said, with primary standards... plus, you can derive things from other things....
13:15 <Lemon> yeah with bridges for example
13:18 <Lemon> and null meters
13:20 <DHess_US> There are ways to calibrate something with a lessor standard or no standard at all, for instance with null meters which have self calibrating offset and a stable resistance chain.
14:15 <mamalala> coppice_: let's put it another way: how would you calibrate to a 0.1% tolerance of the instrument if whatever source you have already has 0.1% tolerance?
14:34 <mamalala> Lemon: no, the "connector" bottom right
14:50 <Lemon> I dont see anything special no
14:55 <Lemon> but im tired af honestly
15:17 <mamalala> Lemon: you can see that the contacts are gold plated
15:27 <mamalala> but then, all the traces are tin plated as well
15:43 <mamalala> and there is a very sharp line between the tin plated and the gold plated section
16:09 <Lemon> hmmmm yes ?
16:17 <mamalala> so they must have gold plated the thing, then masked off the contacts, then tin plated the rest of the board, then removed the mask again
16:46 <Lemon> ha yes thats a possibility !
18:03 <Lemon> ok time for me to sleep
18:10 <mamalala> good night, Lemon
18:14 <Lemon> I'll see you tommorow bois !
18:19 <Lemon> thanks :> bye !!
18:27 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Connection closed
08:48 <rust_collector> I sort of like this thing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Heathkit-Electronic-Design-Experimenter-Model-ET-3100/153849699120?epid=1322926547&hash=item23d2281b30:g:38UAAOSwTUBeTfVv
09:21 <mamalala> rust_collector: ahhh
09:39 <mamalala> i had similar things when i was a kid... from Kosmos and Phillips
09:46 <rust_collector> ok
09:57 <mamalala> my grandma bought those for me, because my mom didnÄt care
10:11 <rust_collector> grandmas are always best
10:38 <mamalala> i went through the experiments in a matter of days... finally i discovered that you can buy electronic components elsewhere and have way more fun
11:17 <mamalala> and then i got a physics teacher in 6th grade who showed me how to etch pcb's using ferric chloride :P
12:00 <mamalala> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Kosmos-electronic-system-I%2BII.jpg
12:23 <mamalala> that's the kosmos stuff... mine was a much earlier version, no fancy knobs or anything
12:45 <rust_collector> hmm, the only physics stuff we got, was learning to run a still. But I guess that it had something to do with the teacher being my oncle
12:49 <rust_collector> uncle
12:55 <mamalala> https://www.experimentierkasten-board.de/viewtopic.php?p=3850
13:02 <mamalala> and that was the philips stuff
13:22 <mamalala> hehe
13:24 <rust_collector> the kosmos one looks very star wars
13:45 <mamalala> well, the physics teacher also was the biology teacher, math teacher, and german teacher
13:55 <rust_collector> yes
13:57 <mamalala> it was when i lived in travemünde...
14:07 <mamalala> he also was a ham operator
14:42 <mamalala> it basically was him who got me really hooked into electronics
15:41 <mamalala> otoh, my carpet didn't like it much that i was etching "pcb" with ferric chloride.... haha
16:00 <rust_collector> I sort of know what you mean
16:30 <mamalala> i mean, sure, the result was that some copper lines on some (then) unknown material.... wouldn't call it a pcb though... it barely worked
16:39 <mamalala> but it was just so much fun for me
18:02 <mamalala> what i did was basically transferring the wiring images of these electronics kits with a thick edding pen onto a copper clad board... etching it... trying to solder parts onto it... and shitloads of wire bridges...
18:12 <rust_collector> it did take me some time to figure out that I should probably reverse my layout, so I left most of the copper, and etched away lines between. That did tend to work better for me
18:39 <mamalala> because the original experiments had them too ... so i wasn't smart enough to recognize that, well, the copper can be used as a wire as well, just draw it differently :P
19:10 <rust_collector> sure
20:06 <rust_collector> I think my first working pcb was a little board that had a led on one side, and an ldr or something on the other side. it was used to detect if there was a toy train in the way or not
20:34 <mamalala> the only real drawback at that time was that i was shunned by others even more ... i mean, i was already a "geek" in my class when i moved in there... but when i started with that stuff, the other kids just thought i was crazy or something
21:05 <rust_collector> they probably had a point. well, you know
21:19 <mamalala> pfffftt :Ü
21:21 <mamalala> :P
22:03 <mamalala> wouldn't it be great if kids today had a bit more understanding of technology, other than "plug the charger in here" .... "the next apple store is at XXX"?
22:44 <rust_collector> YOUR INTERNET SUCKS! my game does not work
23:23 <mamalala> i mean, all that stuff isn't really that hard... at least the basics... but knowing them, and using them, amkes stuff so much more interresting
23:39 <mamalala> not to mention the possible job perspectives in the future
26:00 <rust_collector> what? we are going to make green jobs, we don't need your old normal jobs
26:14 <mamalala> also, the massive benefit of being able to fix a lot of stuff by yourself
26:20 <mamalala> ha
26:37 <mamalala> the way things are going, there will be very little left of normal jobs in the future anyways
27:11 <rust_collector> that is ok, as long as there are equally few people left
27:25 <mamalala> ffs, they even started to make mc donalds computerized... order at a terminal, some filthy robot hands you these greasy burgers
27:42 <mamalala> ahh, see, there is something i can get on with... fewer people :P
28:08 <mamalala> especially fewer assholes... which, by some strange happenstance, seem to make up 99% of the population
28:30 <rust_collector> We do not need more of everything, we just need less people. I guess that is not something most people would vote for
29:17 <mamalala> well, the problem is that such an idea is 100% the opposite of what hardcore capitalism is based on
29:37 <mamalala> because that kind of capitalism is centered on growth, growth, growth ....
29:42 <rust_collector> I wonder if I should make something similar to that heathkit breadboard thing
29:43 <rust_collector> yes
30:02 <mamalala> completely ignoring the fact that this world is just a small rock, with very limited resources
30:10 <rust_collector> mmhmm
30:22 <mamalala> so, by default, perpetual growth is just not possible
30:50 <rust_collector> it is like cancer. it is probably doing great, until the host dies, then it is no fun any more
32:39 <mamalala> na, i think of it more like that other thing... the parasite worm that mice get.. which makes their brain go wonky, so they are not afraid of cats anymore, because that parasite that can only reproduce or something in a cat
32:54 <mamalala> i mean, really, what a sinister thing that nature has done there
33:03 <mamalala> and we seem to behave in a similar way
33:41 <mamalala> we ought to be afraid, or at least cautious, about all that shit... but we give in anyways
34:23 <mamalala> ah, yes, toxoplasma
34:47 <mamalala> https://www.nature.com/news/parasite-makes-mice-lose-fear-of-cats-permanently-1.13777
35:08 <rust_collector> it probably makes sense in some way
35:12 <mamalala> not a worm, a microbe... sorry
35:23 <mamalala> i mean... just imagine that
35:58 <mamalala> a shitty small microbe... able to manipulate the brain of a larger animal... to get it to be eaten by an even larger animal....
36:24 <mamalala> these things can only reproduce in a cats gut
39:52 <mamalala> lucky me, i only have a few decades left, so i won't have to deal with all the crap that is likely to come ... and i made no kids that need to, either :P
31:53 <mamalala> hmmm... anyone here good with statistics?
32:01 <rust_collector> nope
32:10 <mamalala> particularily ANOVA?
33:01 <mamalala> rust_collector: so you know everyone here, then? :P
33:38 <rust_collector> yes, why?
33:56 <mamalala> ha... i can smell a lie when i see it ...
34:24 <rust_collector> there are some, but they will just make a spreadsheet, and blaaah blaaah
34:40 <mamalala> yea, i know
35:37 <mamalala> it's just that i get conflicting info from a single source, depending on what the stuff i prepare shows... so it would be nice to have a second opinion, i guess
36:22 <mamalala> i mean, hey... now they are even resorting to complain about font style and size...
36:32 <mamalala> (not kidding)
37:11 <mamalala> "The report should preferably use similar fonts / spacing and have headers and footers as in the example."
38:05 <mamalala> because a shit ton of number don't matter... it's all about the font!!
38:11 <mamalala> *numbers
38:35 <rust_collector> meh, make it work, send it to india, and they can fix the looks
39:07 <mamalala> not really, i think ... the whole issue is much more compoicated than that
39:55 <mamalala> as in... an organization that ought to overlook technical issues (as part of the org) is instead heavily influenced by personal issues and bullshitting
40:20 <mamalala> it's more like politics instead of technical issues
41:10 <mamalala> and those technical issues are rather simple metrology issues... which, in turn, don't need all these statistics they constantly request...
42:02 <mamalala> .... "constantly request" meaning: we need X statistics.... i provide them ... "wee also need Y statistics" .... i provide them ... " but we also need...."
42:49 <mamalala> and all that just to show (allegedly) that some X is indeed some X, within some (not specified) tolerance
44:58 <mamalala> what makes it interresting, though, is the fact that the "master bullshitter" get's his crap approved in basically no time... because he knows a lot of people that are supposed to be independant... and then he subsequently tells them to block anyone else
45:51 <mamalala> worst of all, i even reported the data manipulation they did to that org... and all i got was "well, thanks, but unless our members complain, we don't do anything"
46:25 <mamalala> and that is an org that is supposed to represent all wool related stuff worldwide... haha
47:12 <rust_collector> I am pretty happy about having a job just driving around, throwing stuff over the fence to people
47:35 <rust_collector> well, it is time for my weekly nap
47:37 <mamalala> so you work for ups then?
48:06 <mamalala> have a good nap... and cuddle the fur babies for me :)
48:07 <rust_collector> uhm, no, not ups, but we do a bit of fedex, tnt, and some others
48:18 <mamalala> well, all the same crap nowdays
48:26 <rust_collector> pretty much
48:37 <rust_collector> good night
48:52 <mamalala> they all want to deliver more and more packages, while using less and less drivers... just idiotic
49:06 <mamalala> sweet dreams, rust_collector
20:03 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Connection closed
10:57 <mamalala> hahaha
11:09 <mamalala> people are stupid....
12:09 <mamalala> on some cat related chat... some foster guy allegedly was scammed by coworkers or whatever.... and is now asking for funds on gofundme for legal stuff
13:01 <mamalala> i asked "how so? he postst infrequently on youtube, fresh posts on fb and twitter (at least what i can see as a non-account)"
13:17 <mamalala> "yea, well, person xxx posted about that on their fb as well"
13:25 <mamalala> "have a link?"
13:35 <mamalala> "no. drop it." blahblah
14:23 <mamalala> then i just created a gofundme for crinkle balls, using the same name of the person that allegedly has troubles with his stuff being taken away from him...
14:46 <mamalala> then told them that i just did that ... and .... crickets
16:13 <mamalala> "it uses his name! it must be real! and someone else posted it as well! can't link to it, so drop your doubts! it must be real!!!" .... showing how easy it is to scam stuff .... nothing...
16:34 <mamalala> maybe people are destined to go extinct... too many are just too stupid
39:20 * Halcyon licks Ampera
47:54 * mamalala lick Halcyon
47:59 <Halcyon> Oooer :)
48:00 <mamalala> +s
51:41 <mamalala> Halcyon: i take it that you have no clue about statistics as well?
51:50 <Halcyon> Hm?
52:22 <mamalala> well... statistics... lots of mumbojumbo to generate whatever results are needed
52:26 <mamalala> i mean...
52:33 <mamalala> there are three kinds of lies
52:41 <Halcyon> Oh, I wouldn't say I have no clue, I have worked with them before in a professional setting. But I've never done any formal training.
52:41 <mamalala> lies, bloody lies, and statistics
53:19 <mamalala> ever heard the term "anova"?
53:38 <Halcyon> Stats themselves aren't the problem, it's how they are implemented and interpreted. I work for the Government so I could tell you ALLLLL about how they don't do what the bosses think they do.
53:41 <Halcyon> Nope
54:25 <mamalala> disclaimer: i have no clue about any of that stuff... i am forced to use that, and in turn to "trust" people to tell me that something is the right kind of statistic...
55:08 <mamalala> but, of course, it may not be the right thing in other cases.... and i can't see why... because i'm not a math/stats person
57:02 <mamalala> and in the end, if my limited mind cobbles it all together, it makes little sense at all...
57:48 <mamalala> Halcyon: are you of the metric kind, or of the imperial kind?
57:58 <T3sl4> it's been long enough since i had stats, that i don't remember which tests to use for which hypotheses and such, but i know how to find out, and more generally i understand how variables can vary in various (nonlinear) ways, independently or together, and that drives the analysis
58:21 * T3sl4 gives Halcyon a fillet of fish, then stares into his sole
59:11 <mamalala> T3sl4: hmmm, interresting... can i send you my email address for some further discussion? or have it as a /query here on irc?
59:42 <T3sl4> i guess
00:00 <mamalala> quey T3sl4 can you read that?
00:09 <mamalala> damn it .. forgot the /
00:26 <Halcyon> mamalala: Metric. We don't use imperial here.
00:31 <mamalala> and the r, as it turns out :P
00:31 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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00:32 <Halcyon> Well, very rarely
00:57 <T3sl4> also annoying as nickop always forgets i'm registered here
00:58 <Halcyon> Mmmm fish
36:25 <Ampera> Halcyon, you never AMD piece of garbage >:(
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49:13 Mode: (by lego.jp.austnet.org) +oo ChanOP Ampera
51:51 * Halcyon AMD's Ampera
52:02 <Halcyon> I have recommended AMD machines to others before
52:09 <Halcyon> It's just I wouldn't use one, I have no need
53:45 <Ampera> the issue is that AMD machines are faster than Intel's right now
53:52 <Ampera> they have just as good driver support for Linux too
55:09 <Ampera> Intel is pumping out furnace after furnace, and their hardware quality is absolute insecure shit
55:21 <Ampera> with more security holes than a shitty swiss prison.
56:00 <Halcyon> Insecure? In what way?
56:09 <Ampera> Meltdown
56:23 <Ampera> which chops performance like nuts on all Intel chips
56:33 <Ampera> their latest chipset security breach which is unpatchable through software
56:49 <Halcyon> Since Meltdown and Spectre were announced, I have not seen one cyber security expert determine that a breach was caused because of those vulnerablities
56:54 <Ampera> admittedly along with similar extents of the spectre exploits that have plagued most speculative execution platforms
56:59 <Halcyon> They have been proven in a lab-based environment, nothing more.
57:05 <Ampera> because there are active patches out
57:17 <Ampera> which would make most of those attacks improbable, since it's well known and understood
57:26 <Halcyon> Even before the patches, not a single breach. And there are *a lot* of unpatched processors out there.
57:28 <Ampera> that doesn't change the fact that those patches slow shit down
57:46 <Halcyon> Ooh visitors, back later.
57:54 <Ampera> which is the old question, if nobody knows about a security hole, then either nobody knows how to exploit it, or nobody knows how to detect it
57:57 <Ampera> ciao
04:34 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:05 <hsn> hey
20:45 Join: DogWomble ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:45 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o DogWomble
49:46 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Ondre: I totally blame @eevblog for having this view at work! https://t.co/BGkGXMbaXZ
20:28 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:32 <Lemon> hello bois
54:37 <hsn> hello lemonaza
14:22 <hsn> guys, what is this black/printable illuminated symbol called https://snipboard.io/8IGztk.jpg
24:17 <Lemon> WC
24:18 <Lemon> ?
50:52 <hsn> yeah the film it self
01:55 <Lemon> I looked but didnt find it
03:19 <hsn> graphic overlays i think
04:58 <hsn> https://www.mavericklabel.com/images/products/control-panel/control-panel-display-display-main.png
15:37 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/2yIQck.jpg << this one diffused led ?
15:55 <hsn> i remember i saw them on youtube but i dont remember the name
16:50 <hsn> i cant find it on digikey
28:16 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:36 <Ysjoelfir> hello
28:52 <Ysjoelfir> hello
28:54 <Ysjoelfir> hello
28:54 <EEVBlog> Hello there, Ysjoelfir!
29:01 <Ysjoelfir> yay :}
29:05 <Lemon> hi :>
29:37 <hsn> hello there
29:37 <EEVBlog> Hello there, hsn!
29:45 <hsn> one time lottery baby
30:01 <Ysjoelfir> Hi Citrôóòen and hasaaaaaan :)
30:18 <hsn> i got banned using my home ip
30:23 <hsn> in the weekend
30:35 <hsn> so i disappeared .. i guess i wont use IRC at home PC
30:45 <Ysjoelfir> lol. Happenes to me all the time.
30:50 <Ysjoelfir> just restart the router
30:57 <Ysjoelfir> should give you a new IP
31:22 <Lemon> pfff 3 messages for my laptop, 3 scammers...
32:02 <Ysjoelfir> hehe
32:11 <Lemon> thats really tiring
32:15 <Lemon> and all three used the same method
32:21 * Ysjoelfir enjoys the weekend and plays Final Fantasy X
32:32 <Lemon> 'I'll pay you upfront 50 euros for chronopost blabla by cheque'
32:40 <Lemon> yes sure this technique is like, 5 y/o now ?
32:58 <hsn> yeah but restarting router is taking lot of time to reconnect its has bad time to boot
33:15 <Ysjoelfir> luckily the stuff I usually sell doesn't have the appeal for such scammers
33:28 <hsn> Ysjoelfir do you know these ::: https://snipboard.io/cSiKm3.jpg <<
33:52 <hsn> i cant find them on digikey or on the internet
34:00 <Ysjoelfir> hmm... no, never seen those
34:15 <hsn> its nice diffused panel
34:39 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/z5Mfe3.jpg << when lighting
35:41 <Lemon> I found the 3456a btw https://odnd.nl/lab-equipment/13357-hewlett-packard-3456a-digital-voltmeter.html
35:47 <Lemon> it looks in really good conditions
38:23 <Ysjoelfir> thats realy nice
38:31 <Ysjoelfir> and iu want the 3456
38:34 <Ysjoelfir> *i
38:36 <Lemon> im tempted honestly
38:38 <Ysjoelfir> the price is great
39:42 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
40:50 <Lemon> looking at it theres low chances it doesnt work
42:26 <Lemon> ive been debating if I should buy it for at least two weeks
42:40 Quit: hsn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
42:40 <Lemon> I'd be set on dmms after that :>
42:58 <Ysjoelfir> I'm sure you won't be :)
43:05 <Ysjoelfir> you will need a 3458 after that
43:28 <Ysjoelfir> and if one of those nice Valhalla ones comes your way... or a Solartron Schlumberger...
43:33 <Ysjoelfir> Or - a Prema!
43:41 <Lemon> pfff I still miss the prema 6k...
43:46 <Lemon> 75 euros... :(
43:50 <Lemon> it was such a nice deal
43:56 <Lemon> I should have been faster
48:13 <Lemon> im going to open one of those meters I bought
48:21 <Lemon> HB ones, that came in a wooden box
49:40 * Ysjoelfir smells his bread in the bread maker thing.
49:44 * Ysjoelfir drools
59:48 <Lemon> aff the zeroing plastic screw is falling appart
45:06 <hsn93> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5tBbHYUExo << SELF CLINCHING STUD - INSERTION PRESS WORKING
45:12 <hsn93> cool stuff
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