#d&d - 2013-05-15 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-05-15

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« 2013-05-14 2013-05-16 »
11:59 <Mekkis> the bonus to speed isn't the good bit
12:23 <Falang> I know that, I just find the text vague
12:34 <Mekkis> you will complain about anything
12:58 <Falang> :)
13:53 <Mekkis> why don't you write a character creation program?
14:19 <Falang> been thinking about that actually, you reading my mind? hacking my leet win7 laptop?!
14:34 <Falang> it would be a good excuse to learn to program...
15:58 <Mekkis> no such thing
17:36 <Falang> I've really wanted to learn python, but with the whole 2.7/3.1 thing, a lot of the external libraries haven't caught up yet.. I'd have to learn the old version when I don't really want to.
17:47 <Mekkis> as a "leet win7 laptop"
18:12 <Falang> yes that's why I said it, you've heard of sarcasm right?
18:30 <Mekkis> sure. In passing. Pretty foreign though.
22:47 <Falang> Understandable, you guys do have quite a lingo of your own
40:20 <Mekkis> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=umhistmath&cc=umhistmath&idno=aat3201.0002.001&frm=frameset&view=image&seq=126
43:16 <Mekkis> !spell magnificent mansion
43:19 <diebot> Mekkis, MAGE'S MAGNIFICENT MANSION conjuration (creation[]) sorcerer/wizard 7 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)  Comp: V, S, F (a miniature ivory door, a piece of polished marble, and a silver spoon, each worth 5 gp) Duration: 2 hours/level Save: none SR:no
43:20 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/mage's_magnificent_mansion.html
43:24 <Mekkis> if you use 20 point buy, it means you get a nice pool of PFS characters to test against.
43:41 <Wrothmonk> However the 14 all across isnt realistic of what people will make for our campaigns.
44:22 <Mekkis> !spell shadowy haven
44:23 <diebot> Mekkis, SHADOWY HAVEN transmutation ([]) sorcerer/wizard 4 1 standard action Range: touch one 5-foot square of floor touched Comp: V, S, M (a small black silk bag) Duration: 2 hours/level (D) Save: none SR:no
44:24 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/shadowy_haven.html
44:28 <Falang> doesn't matter, it's simple. either you want to spend 3 hours just making characters or you want to just try it out.
44:47 <Falang> if we do point buy then everybody has to make characters for a one shot test
45:06 <Wrothmonk> but we are the ones making the characters
45:50 <Wrothmonk> however I think I have a solution
46:10 <Mekkis> !spell enter image
46:11 <diebot> Mekkis, ENTER IMAGE transmutation ([]) bard 2, cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 3 1 standard action Range: 50 ft./level  Comp: V, S, M/DF (a drop of paint and a ball of clay) Duration: concentration Save: none SR:no
46:11 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/enter_image.html
47:37 <Wrothmonk> we make all humans, each one has two 14s and an 18 (being the one with the human +2).
49:15 <Wrothmonk> its easy enough to just shuffle the same numbers around to different stats.
49:40 <Falang> it's inconsequential to follow the rules and give bonuses to humans, we don't need to go through all that trouble to make them, this isn't PFS.
49:46 <Mekkis> your choice. If you like contriving characters
49:48 <Falang> assign attributes, move on
50:01 <Mekkis> I'd just snaff other people's PFS characters, but that's me.
50:02 <Falang> battle test only.
50:04 <Mekkis> So.
50:11 <Mekkis> What have you done with skills?
51:22 <Wrothmonk> added in the new ones and using the pathfinder system?
53:02 <Wrothmonk> Replacing the pathfinder spellcraft with the true sorcerery spellcraft obviously.
54:42 <Falang> ah, actually we have a nice pool of pregens from PF. the NPC book thingy and the 1/4/7 wizard the provide
54:51 <Wrothmonk> Yup
55:13 <Falang> maybe shuffle the spell selection around a bit, but either way. not a big deal.
58:32 andrey has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
59:20 <Wrothmonk> Well it seems like it would be easy to just spit out pregens at this point. All we need are stats and spells and we could just have everyone pick.
59:31 <Wrothmonk> the spells I mean
00:16 <Falang> You'll need to prep an explanation of how the system works, step by step
00:27 <Wrothmonk> Hrm yeah...
00:45 <Falang> and everybody will need a copy of the pdf to see what they can do with their spells
01:27 <Falang> I wouldn't recommend letting people pick their talents, just pregen those too, or I can do that part in my spare time tonight.
01:57 <Wrothmonk> Why wouldnt you recommend it?
02:11 <Falang> just bam, character sheet, these are your spells, here's the book, look them up and pre-figure out some spells you want to try to do and have them ready. otherwise it's going to take forever just to do a burning hands
02:23 <Wrothmonk> hrm fair point.
03:58 <Falang> so.. make *1* pregen, level him up level by level and write down what spells he took, so we can fill them in as slots later
04:16 <Falang> like 1st level, 'force', etc. 
04:53 <Falang> what magnitude those spells were in
04:59 <Falang> those will be the flexible bits
05:20 <Falang> one gets fire, one gets earth, etc.. a few elemental mages, illusionist, etc.
05:22 <Mekkis> problem with the NPC book is that it was all built to 15 point buy
05:35 <Mekkis> because it was written by guys who didn't play Pathfinder.
06:22 <Falang> I don't think a few attribute points here or there is going to change the fate of the world.
06:59 <Falang> this is about the magic system, they won't be shooting at each other with crossbows or grappling
07:46 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
08:13 niconorsk{ has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
08:14 <Falang> precisely what I said.
08:26 <Mekkis> Unless your objective is to make nonspellcasters useless.
08:28 <Wrothmonk> oh I didnt mention? part of it will be pvp.
08:43 <Mekkis> the spellcasters should remain balanced
09:27 <Falang> we can compare it vs. non-spellcasters later, this is more about playtesting the system itself and comparing it to PF magic.
09:57 <Wrothmonk> I'd say we can get past that in less than 6 hours.
10:04 <Mekkis> so you're saying that a 10th level Spellcaster should be able to take on Deceased about 50:50?
10:06 <Wrothmonk> the system itself that is.
10:17 <Mekkis> So. Have you codified exactly how you're doing skills?
10:35 <Falang> besides, I think that whole balance thing is utter crap. it's constructed to be balanced etc etc.. all this artificial excuses, mages can't wear armor.. oh wait, unless they take a feat.. etc.. it's all pointless. Guess what, Gandalf was the most powerful in LOTR. He did magic. end or story.
10:46 <Mekkis> ummm
10:48 <Falang> There's no reason to change the skill system
10:56 <Mekkis> Guess what? Gandalf was a cleric in LotR
11:07 <Mekkis> about 7th level.
11:43 <Falang> spellcasters can alter the reality of the game, period. That's what they do. If you want to do that, be a spellcaster, if you want to slice shit into pieces, be a fighter, etc.
11:55 <Mekkis> more to the point
12:00 andrey ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
12:19 <Mekkis> there's a lot of emphasis on the Concentration skill. One of the changes between 3.5e and Pathfinder was the removal of said skill.
12:28 <Falang> the basic combat system itself is all the 'balance' that's really needed, spellcasters typically can't fight well, less hitpoints, lower ACs, etc.
12:50 <Falang> cast a spell and provoke
13:01 <Mekkis> haha
13:25 <Mekkis> that's not how it works. 5' and cast a spell and not provoke.
13:36 <Mekkis> Cast defensively, and don't provoke
13:51 <Mekkis> oh, unless you're fighting a 10th level fighter who took the Spellbreaker feat.
13:54 <Falang> I know that, I'm playing ToEE right now, but it's not always an option.
13:57 <Mekkis> and Step Up
14:02 <Brunius> Why was Gandalf a cleric
14:17 <Mekkis> Look at the spells he cast, for starters
14:24 <Falang> Gandalf was like.. uhh.. if I recall my LOTR lore correctly, an angel or something.
14:30 <Wrothmonk> I personally think you should be able to increase your concentration check by putting skill ranks in it.
14:39 <Wrothmonk> you said he was a wizard?
14:43 <Steven> he was a nephelem basically, angelic human thing
14:49 <Falang> but I don't agree he was a cleric by any means, the magic is typically just more subtle.  I just think he was lazy. :)
15:08 <Mekkis> subtle like casting &light on the end of his wand?
15:12 <diebot> FIGHT ON []Prereq:  Con 13; dwarf, half-orc, or orc.  You can keep fighting even after you should be dead.
15:12 <diebot> Benefit:  Once per day, you can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. You can activate this feat as an immediate action when reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. You can use this feat to prevent yourself from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If your hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of
15:12 <diebot> these temporary hit points, you fall unconscious and are dying as normal. If you also have the ferocity racial trait, you can use that once you have lost the temporary hit points from this feat. Source: APG
15:12 <diebot> SPELL SPECIALIZATION []Prereq:  Int 13, Spell Focus.  Select one spell. You cast that spell with greater than normal power.
15:12 <diebot> Benefit:  Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell. Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that
15:12 <diebot> spell becomes your specialized spell.
15:12 <diebot> Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different spell. Source: UM
15:16 <Mekkis> :o
15:20 <Brunius> Nice one
15:21 <Falang> wtf
15:29 <Wrothmonk> wtf happended?
15:37 <Mekkis> ah
15:42 <Falang> mekkis being sloppy :)
16:02 <Mekkis> the & will match anything that has a Liechtenstein distance of 3 or less.
16:17 <Mekkis> and it will remove words from the end of the line until it does.
16:28 <Wrothmonk> liechtenstein distance? 
16:34 <Mekkis> What happened was that the distance between "light on" and "fight on" is 1.
16:45 <Mekkis> So it didn't bother removing the "on"
17:06 <Wrothmonk> oh I see, letter difference
17:10 <Mekkis> Sorry, Levenshtein
17:25 <Wrothmonk> no clue on the exact meaning on that word either
17:32 <Mekkis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance
17:34 <Brunius> It's a name, I think
17:34 <Falang> anyway, this system is already balanced within it's own d20/3.5 system, one not so different than PF, so it should be pretty balanced already.
17:35 <Mekkis> read all about it!
17:42 <Brunius> Why did it highlight spell specialisation?
17:50 <Mekkis> because that was in the buffer
18:16 <Mekkis> it was an attempt at asynchronous handling.
18:59 <Mekkis> Falang, 3.5e balanced? heh. 3.5e splatbooks balanced? ha ha. Third-party 3.5e splatbooks balanced? you're joking right?
19:52 <Wrothmonk> you should probably change that so its required the & be at the beginning of the chat. 
20:03 <Mekkis> that's not the point
20:26 <Mekkis> The idea is that you can say something like: I think &power attack is required for any fighting class
20:40 <Mekkis> and get the text to come out.
20:58 <Wrothmonk> makes input a lot more controlled.
20:58 <Falang> *ahem* 
21:08 <Mekkis> but yeah. Some issues still
21:40 <Wrothmonk> Ah
21:42 <Wrothmonk> I see
22:20 <Wrothmonk> code in a A.I. that understand language to the point of near sentience as it can tell when you do and dont mean to have the thing to come up? :P
22:47 <Mekkis> Good idea. You do it
22:54 <Wrothmonk> anyway, back to "balance" 
22:58 <Falang> it was balanced within the True20 system, not that different really. Anyway, that's something that will be evaluated later, we'll go up against each other, vanilla wizards, and monsters.
23:18 <Mekkis> [citation needed]
23:29 <Falang> if these guys stomp the vanilla wizard team horribly, and the monsters horribly, then it needs tweaking
23:40 <Wrothmonk> Which is why we are doing that.
23:50 <Falang> we will need players though, I'm guessing at least 6.
24:07 <Wrothmonk> I set the max to this weekends game to 8
24:14 <Falang> I don't see why we couldn't throw pregen fighters in there though in place of monsters, if mekkis is going to keep his panties in a bunch about it.
25:26 <Wrothmonk> Anyway, do you want in to the game or not?
25:48 <Falang> need experienced players, it should just be a couple of hours I guess eh?
25:59 <Falang> Steven and Mekkis and Avatar would be invaluable.
26:31 <Falang> if the munchkins whine about something being too powerful you know something is wrong ;)
26:34 <Mekkis> As I said, I can be available, but I want to know what your aims are, what you've changed, and what's happening
28:50 <Steven> i heard my name
29:01 <Steven> or rather it beeped at me as soneone said my name
29:03 <Wrothmonk> oh falang, did you get chance to check the website to see if the time was right on your email?
29:59 <Falang> not yet, making lunch.
30:07 <Falang> don't sweat it, i'll get up.
30:08 <Falang> either way
30:25 <Falang> actually if it's at like 4am my time I ususally wake up then anyway
30:33 <Wrothmonk> XD
30:47 <Wrothmonk> well I want everyone to be able to get in.
32:17 <Mekkis> Steven, do you print out maps for dungeons?
33:55 <Falang> Mekkis: the aims are to test it as a PF magic system replacement as far as I understand things, or at least that was my original aim. What's changed is the whole spellcasting system. what's happening is a playtest. PvP and team battles. Mage on mage violence.
34:58 <Falang> Not sure how you didn't get all that out of the past hour of conversation.
35:02 <Steven> no i usually do not print out maps for dungeons
39:44 <Wrothmonk> Also if there is enough interest after the playtests this may become a new campaign.
48:44 <Wrothmonk> Well goodnight.
47:07 <Steven> avatar hows that character commin along?
50:46 <Steven> updated honey, cl21 for channel, 13d6 DC27
51:27 <Steven> forgot to do her channel ability
02:15 <Steven> alright paladin 5/Oracle 1/6Hellknight
02:53 <Steven> my armor gonna be so expensive
03:10 <mib_bwugyi> hey gys
03:11 <Steven> Mithril hellnight plate
03:30 <Steven> sup
03:44 <mib_bwugyi> i was wondeing how does pathfinder online work here
03:50 <Steven> just to let you know you can change your nickname by /nick nae
04:16 <mib_bwugyi> fox/nick name
04:30 <mib_bwugyi> fox/nickname
04:39 <mib_bwugyi> eh screw it 
04:45 <Steven> no, its /nick fox
05:00 <fox> thanks
05:03 <Steven> no problem
06:07 <fox> so yeah i want to play pathfinder with a group or people onlne
06:15 <fox> and someone directed me here 
06:47 <Steven> thats cool, may we ask who directed you?
07:23 <Avatar> yo
07:26 <Steven> ouch 11k before i can get my mithril Hellknight Armor
07:35 <fox> some random while i was playing mtg 
07:50 <Steven> mekkis/kapow/brunius maybe
07:58 <Steven> avatar, hows your character comming?
08:08 <Avatar> I haven't started beyond our conversation yesterday
08:39 <Avatar> do you guys know about the heavyload belt
08:44 <Avatar> permanent ant haul for 2000gp !
08:54 <Avatar> that's going on really ultimate equipment lst
08:55 <Avatar> list*
09:26 <Steven> meh....
09:43 <Steven> its just carry capacity
09:51 <Steven> that takes up a belt slot
10:12 <Steven> that sounds like a bad trade to me.
12:10 <Avatar> for any 7 str character that is a big deal
14:44 <Steven> muleback cords
15:02 <Steven> costs you a shoulder slot item, but allows you to pick up a belt of con
26:34 <Steven> i feel like i might be nap time
27:22 <Avatar> I think shoulder slot might be more valuable
27:43 <Avatar> and you might not be able to carry as much
27:49 <Avatar> even if it's on par, that's saying something
28:21 <Steven> at 7str the difference is like 7lbs between anthaul and muleback cords
28:36 <Steven> muleback cords cost you 1k less
30:47 <Steven> really, teh cape of the montebank is the only pseudo 'must have' for a person with 7str
31:34 <Steven> and you can pick up boots of the lightning leaper, the teleport boots, or an unfettered shirt
32:35 <Steven> that all get out out of those grapped situations which is why you mostly want a cape to begin with.
35:59 <Avatar> depends what build you want to go with
38:47 <Steven> yeah, im thinking a belt of con is better than a belt of carrying 40 more lbs
40:28 <Brunius> dafuq you want Steven
42:02 <Steven> some guy named fox came in
42:13 <Steven> said he was refered by someone who plays magic
43:09 <Brunius> Yeah not me
43:15 <Brunius> I haven't played magic in a while
43:20 <Brunius> RtR block doesn't interest me
43:38 <Steven> i had that same feeling since worldwake
43:55 <Steven> mirroden was fun until i realized how bad they were fucking it up
44:06 <Steven> innistrad was complete shit
44:14 <Steven> and ravinica has been horrible
44:42 <Brunius> I thought innistrad wasn't so bad, but it was the first full block I was exposed to
44:53 <Brunius> I played like one draft of mirrodin with little clue what I was doing
45:06 <Steven> the whole meta is how fast can i start slamming thragtusks or how long can i counter their tragtusks before i combo off.
13:47 <Steven> well i guess two
13:52 <Avatar> need to decide on a curse before I do anything you crazy person
14:07 <Avatar> why would you choose race and stats before class
14:14 <Brunius> Uh
14:15 <Brunius> Flavour
14:20 <Avatar> class is flavour
14:28 <Brunius> A sneaky guy doesn't always have to be a rogue
14:49 <Avatar> a dex 18 halfling doesn't have to be sneaky either
14:51 <Steven> see this is how we know avatar is doomed on this endevor, he doesnt know how to cheese build
14:53 <Avatar> a rogue is more likely to be
15:02 <Brunius> A dex 18 halfling is quite likely to be sneaky
15:17 <Brunius> With a +8 to stealth without any ranks in it
15:17 <Avatar> Steven: that's why when I'm trying to cheese, I get a working character
15:54 <Steven> the reason you need to look at the races is because some of the alternate favored will negate cureses completely
16:34 <Avatar> legalistic sounds cool
17:28 <Steven> like gnomes +1/2 to oracle level for determining curse
17:31 <Avatar> Steven: example?
18:19 <Avatar> jesus that's pretty good
18:30 <Avatar> gnomes are my most hated race
18:46 <Steven> i think halflings have it as well
19:01 <Steven> but you dont really want to bother upping your curse level when there are so much better options out there
19:24 <Avatar> like what
20:00 <Steven> half elfs, humans, and half orcs all add spells to your spells known list.
20:12 <Steven> the only stipulation is that they must be 1 level lower than highest level you can cast
20:24 <Avatar> that's shit
20:34 <Steven> no its actually rather good.
20:48 <Steven> the first 5 levels are bad
20:57 <Avatar> this elven revelation one might be good
20:59 <Steven> but after that its amazing
21:22 <Steven> elves get the 1/2 to determining level of one revelation
21:35 <Steven> so do tieflings and aasimar
22:21 <Steven> wait no nevermind tieflings dont get jack
23:11 <Steven> if you plan on building a uses/day oracle elf or aasimar is where you want to go
23:34 <Steven> because you will get stronger effects for your level
24:49 <Steven> and aasimar are the superior choice out of the two.
26:25 <Avatar> I didn't realise you only get 3 relevations up to level 12
26:30 <Avatar> oops, 4
27:24 <Steven> you can get a ring that can get you another one
27:41 <Steven> and there is a feat that will allow you to select another revelation
29:43 <Avatar> ahhh extra relevation
29:55 <Steven> i dont suggest you take them at lower levels unless you need one of them
30:52 * Falang pictures Steven and Avatar's characters, sitting around in a tavern, browsing through Magic Item Catalogues over a cup of ale, working up christmas wishlists..
31:16 <Steven> I already have my characters christmas list
31:19 <Avatar> I don't like magic
31:33 <Avatar> I bought the game on steam and I am terrible at it
32:03 <Steven> Belt of +6 stats, +5 cha tome, Regalia of Heaven afterwards if i get enough money
32:53 <Steven> shes working back up towards that +5 cha tome after running through eyes of the ten.
41:42 <Brunius> DotP? It's bad man
44:15 <Brunius> Avatar: http://imgur.com/a/Y2ehu
45:29 <andrey> perils of the pirate pact?
45:31 <andrey> is that fun?
47:57 <Steven> that river is pretty muddy man
48:30 <Brunius> That's the Yarra
48:42 <Brunius> Don't fall in
48:53 <Brunius> You might stick to the surface, or you might not come out
49:29 <Avatar> it didn't occur to me that wasting is a really terrible choice for a high-charisma character
51:02 * Steven facepalms
51:39 <Avatar> stop hitting yourself
52:00 <Steven> be an aasimar, take Blackened
52:09 <Steven> it gives you free spells to use as a blaster.
52:37 <Avatar> the still/silent spell combination seems cool
59:53 <Steven> okay, goin to nap
00:01 <Steven> talk to you all later
00:03 <Avatar> gg
02:05 <Avatar> might go deaf
02:31 <Avatar> and take metal
02:42 <Avatar> then I will be an oracle who likes deaf metal
15:04 * Falang slaps Avatar around a bit with a large trout
16:43 * Avatar slaps Falang around a bit with a large trout
16:55 <Falang> you had that coming
17:19 <Avatar> you had that coming
18:55 <Avatar> !spell alter self
18:56 <diebot> Avatar, ALTER SELF transmutation (polymorph[]) bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2, summoner 2, alchemist 2, magus 2 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume) Duration: 1 min./level Save:  SR:
18:56 <diebot> When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet. Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to
18:56 <diebot> your Dexterity. Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.
19:30 <Avatar> no fly :(
21:27 <Falang> darkvision is fine
21:57 <Brunius> !spell permanencty
21:59 <diebot> Brunius, PERMANENCY universal ([]) sorcerer/wizard 5 2 rounds Range: see text see text Comp: V, S, M (see tables below) Duration: permanent; see text Save: none SR:no
21:59 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/permanency.html
22:15 <Brunius> when are you even gonna be casting permanency in combat
22:59 <Falang> Huh.. I hadn't seen that spell in PF yet. Interesting.
23:06 <Falang> as usual they make it all about gold costs. *sigh*
23:13 <Falang> nice that it's not a 9th level spell though
23:18 <niconorsk> Its not legal in PFS anyways
23:22 <Brunius> What else would you have them base it on
24:03 <Falang> Uh. nothing?  It's magic.  PF acts like there's a friggin' mystical accountantcy firm in the sky that keeps track of how much spells are worth in GP.
24:14 <Brunius> ...
24:25 <Brunius> In pathfinder, magic is more or less advanced mathematics
24:36 <Avatar> really
24:44 <Avatar> because I am decent with magic but terrible at advanced maths
24:47 <Brunius> I'm pretty sure I heard that somewhere
24:54 <Brunius> And that's why it's based off int, see
24:59 <Brunius> I dunno, maybe I made it up
25:04 <Avatar> mekkis making false claims possibly
25:14 <Avatar> taking things out of context
25:34 <Brunius> Considering it needs diamond dust, it could be bonding the magic particles to the organic particles in your body
25:43 <Brunius> Like, uh, the 2,2 dimethyl propane
26:06 <niconorsk> The cost is diamond dust not gold. How much diamond dust is expressed in gold because Pathfinder doesn't provides economy simulations
26:18 <Falang> You're as bad as Mekkis, stop trying to rationalize and justify all the nonsense.
27:02 <Falang> I mean my god, how much diamond dust is 22,500GP anyway?  that'd be like a bigass bag full of it. I'm pretty sure the world would have run out of diamonds by now.
27:04 <Brunius> "I don't like this, because it's illogical"
27:09 <Brunius> "here's a vaguely logical reason"
27:15 <Brunius> "Stop trying to make it logical!"
27:17 <Falang> But then you could just cast a spell to make more diamonds in exchange for gold right? :)
27:24 <Falang> at current market prices of course
28:13 <niconorsk> There are ways.
28:15 <Falang> what if somebody finds a huge diamond mine and the price of diamonds goes way down, does the mystical accountantcy firm take that into account, are you paying last month's going rate for diamonds or the new one?
28:26 <niconorsk> !spell blood money
28:27 <diebot> niconorsk, BLOOD MONEY transmutation ([]) magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1 1 swift action Range: 0 ft.  Comp: V, S Duration: Instantaneous Save:  SR:
28:27 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/blood_money.html
29:11 <Brunius> I don't use magic man
29:16 <Brunius> I go in and hit them with a big sword
29:21 <Falang> nice spell. when do you get your str points back?
29:36 <niconorsk> Over time or lesser restorations
30:08 <Falang> over how much time?  not specified in the spell..
30:31 <Falang> tsk tsk.. 
30:42 <niconorsk> It follows the rules for healing ability damage, which I don't know off-hand
31:01 <Falang> oookay, so any 1st level wizard could make himself rich as fuck. I'm so getting that on a scroll.
31:09 <Avatar> I don't like this "you must be 7th level to select this relevation" garbage
32:29 <niconorsk> No, because it only creates if you cast a spell that uses the material.  If you don't cast a spell all you geta bloody hand
33:11 <Brunius> Yeah Falang start reading spells
33:14 <Brunius> Rather than skimming
33:17 <Brunius> That's Avatar's job
33:57 <Avatar> yeah that's my job
34:40 <Falang> that's fucking retarded. the accountant firm strikes again.
35:05 <Falang> see, THIS is what all this damn 'balance' creates. nonsense rules.
35:19 <Falang> you can conjure a wall of stone, a wall of iron, but not a wall of gold.
35:58 <Falang> Even if you could make a wall of gold, You'd probably have to sacrifice 1 million GP worth of diamond dust to do it.
36:15 <Avatar> those nonsense rules are making sure a nonsense game doesn't happen
36:24 <Brunius|M> First you don't want balance, then you do
36:32 <Brunius|M> Make up your mind already
37:59 <Falang> It's the GM's job to stop nonsense games.
38:13 <Falang> what's the point in being a powerful wizard if you can't make yourself rich?
38:44 <Avatar> you basically want a game without any rules
39:03 <Falang> The best you can do is be an adventurer and save the world a few times, risking your life constantly, and then retire in wealth if you survive. It's just endlessly contrived nonsense.
39:17 <Avatar> why do we have to deal with 20 point buys
39:19 <Falang> that's what I hate, contrived rules.
39:22 <Avatar> or classes
39:31 <Avatar> why not just say I'm a guy with a sword and I want to kill some shit
39:39 <Avatar> forget 5ft squares, I walk up and hit him
39:42 <Avatar> bam
39:52 <Falang> indeed, WHY are there still classes? we've got attributes, feats, traits, skills, etc..  but still you have to be pigeonholed into a 'class'.
39:53 <Avatar> the GM can run a fun game, what's the point of all these rules getting in the way of our fun?
40:07 <Avatar> forget feats and traits, what a waste of space
40:12 <Falang> :)
40:13 <Avatar> man, sword, bad guy, bam
40:18 <Avatar> !roll 1d20
40:18 <dicebot> Avatar, 1d20: [1d20=3] 3
40:21 <Falang> sounds fun, lets play it!
40:23 <Avatar> forget dice, I hit him
40:27 <Avatar> and he dies
40:36 <Avatar> game over I win
40:38 <Avatar> that's how you have fun
40:44 <Falang> You can't win, *I* won.
40:48 <Brunius|M> You should try amber rpg, Falang
41:03 <Brunius|M> I think you'd like it
41:13 <niconorsk> At this point, you may as well play Cops and Robbers
41:19 <Falang> I used to own it actually.  Technically I guess I still do, probably in a box somewhere.
41:51 <Brunius|M> I tried it once
41:53 <Falang> Really when it comes down to it, I don't like the contrived bullshit. if there's no decent rational excuse for a rule, it's just fucking with my suspension of disbelief.
42:06 <Brunius|M> Group fell apart after two seasons
42:13 <Brunius|M> Sessions rather
42:59 <Falang> if SOME special classes can get the ability to cast spells in armor, or you can get a feat to do it better, then ANY Mage should be able to cast spells in armor. like a breastplate "interferes with your freedom of movement". come on. There are old woodcarvings of guys doing cartwheels in chainmail from the middle ages!
43:32 <Brunius|M> Have you ever worn maille
43:38 <Brunius|M> It's fucking heavy
43:45 <Falang> that's contrived, it's purely contrived to keep wizards weak and in danger so fighters have to protect them.
44:10 <Falang> Tell it to the middle ages.
44:15 <niconorsk> Just because someone drew people doing cartwheels in chainmail doesn't mean it was happening
44:16 <Falang> I'm sure you get used to it.
44:57 <Falang> sure, I guess a boiled leather breastplate is super heavy too, can't even walk in that shit. :)
45:17 <Falang> much less wave your arms around and shout "LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!"
46:05 <Falang> Instead the spell failure rates are based on the AC value, not weight or how restricting it would actually be in reality. AC value. That's contrived.
46:15 <niconorsk> Just because the rules don't specify whats involved doesn't mean its a bit more than just waving your arms around
46:56 <Falang> If it was all that you sure as shit couldn't do it in combat now could you? casting defensively or not.
47:15 <Falang> once they stopped laughing at you, they'd poke a hole in ya. it cant' take more than a few seconds if it's a standard action casting.
48:36 <Falang> See, once you create one bullshit contrived rule it's a cascade of justifications and rationalizing it.
48:55 <Falang> You know it doesn't make sense, it's just the rule.
49:14 <Falang> I happen to think rules in a ROLEPLAYING game should make sense, since we're all doing our best to ROLE PLAY it as though it were real.
50:13 <niconorsk> How can you arbitrarily define what makes sense in the concept of conjuring fireballs out of thin air
51:25 <Falang> works pretty well in successful fiction novels. 
51:32 <Falang> I see you playing Avatar!
51:50 <niconorsk> And wizards don't have any limitations in said novels?
52:04 <Falang> The prob is taht PF is piggybacking on 40 year old rules made by a nerdy wargamer.
52:14 <Falang> it's like polishing a turd
52:34 <Falang> might be shiny at the end, but it still smells like shit
53:15 <Falang> Sure, but they're rational limitations. they'd have to be, you're reading a book.
53:22 <Falang> like The Dresden Files
53:30 <Falang> the magic makes sense. period.
54:18 <Falang> it has limits, but it makes sense within it's own realm of fantasy, it's all quite logical. and it's in RPG form just fine. nobody tells a wizard he can't wear body armor! 
59:05 <Falang> I mean come on, magic relies on you having a feather in your pocket?  can't be done without that feather! period!
59:57 <Falang> Material components are mostly nonsense, and nobody even keeps track of it do they?  it's only important when you don't have this endless pouch full of feathers and rubber and glass rods..
00:40 <Falang> Shit, tell me an archmage could even keep track of all that stuff he'd have in his pouches?  you'd be lucky to find it in 6 seconds, much less cast a spell with it.
01:21 <Falang> by the rules, if they didn't alter them for this one specific case, you'd be spending your move actions just digging in pouches
02:06 <Falang> See what I mean? started with one silly thing, material components, and suddenly they have to make exceptions to the combat rules to accomodate it.
07:28 <Brunius> You're oscillating between wanting perfect rationality and wanting no rationality at all
07:32 <Brunius> Make up your mind.
08:36 <Falang> I am not!
08:38 <Falang> Hmph!
09:00 <Falang> Don't you judge me! 
09:49 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
59:14 <Avatar> jesus, time is fantastic
11:52 <Avatar> sure is
26:55 <Wrothmonk> Hey avatar, your the one I need to talk to for scheduling stuff correct?
27:09 Proquar has quit (Client exited)
39:47 <Falang> ...
41:38 <Avatar> yeah
41:43 <Avatar> just tell me what game and when you want to run it 
42:43 Proquar ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
43:06 <Avatar> don't know if I should schedule steven's fs2 today at 6pm
43:15 <Avatar> he keeps changing his mind and left before I could confirm it
44:55 <Proquar> i have an important quesion:
45:12 <Proquar> what do you call it when someone just 'reads' on social media?
45:27 <Wrothmonk> Well its not exactly a normal pathfinder game, I'd like to schedule a playtest game of true sorcery.
45:42 <Avatar> what do you mean just reads
45:59 <Avatar> Wrothmonk: it's the same deal, but determine who you want to invite for it
46:06 <Proquar> like the people who just sit in here idly
46:19 <Avatar> lurking?
46:26 <Avatar> there's no name for it on social media
46:27 <Proquar> ah ha
46:38 <Avatar> they're just called people who don't post or comment
48:49 <Proquar> hehehehe
48:59 <Proquar> that's not nearly as poetic
57:56 <Avatar> you want to be poetic
08:17 Goya has quit (Quit: leaving)
19:36 <Proquar> usually
54:31 * Proquar starts lurking again
19:02 Brunius|M ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
23:45 <Brunius|M> What's a good feat for a level one sorcerer?
30:37 <Mekkis> ditch it and play a wizard :P
30:56 <Mekkis> Or try &spell specialisation
50:26 <Mekkis> !feat spell specialisation
50:27 <diebot> Mekkis, SPELL SPECIALIZATION []Prereq:  Int 13, Spell Focus.  Select one spell. You cast that spell with greater than normal power.
50:27 <diebot> Benefit:  Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell. Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that
50:27 <diebot> spell becomes your specialized spell.
50:27 <diebot> Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different spell. Source: UM
51:14 Brunius|M has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
58:10 Brunius|M ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
03:43 <Wrothmonk> You know you have crashed with a lot of force when debris is put into sub-orbit.
20:07 Brunius|M- ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:35 Brunius|M has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
34:56 Goya ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
36:37 <Mekkis> Wrothmonk, you been driving again?!
53:53 niconorsk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
56:02 <Wrothmonk> Driving rockets, yes, if you can call it driving them.
56:35 <Mekkis> you hit them with a club?
56:59 <Wrothmonk> not that kind of driving...
58:14 Scharlet ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:18 Scharlet has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
59:20 <Wrothmonk> But I might as well have.
04:08 <Mekkis> so you do rocketry, Wrothmonk?
04:29 <Wrothmonk> virtual stuff
04:52 <Wrothmonk> more for the fun of exploding stuff, intentional or not.
05:34 <Mekkis> that's no fun
26:31 <Wrothmonk> So mekkis, have you seen the True Sorcery rules?
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41:54 <Falang> 5am? really wroth? *cries*
42:05 <Wrothmonk> its 5 am for you?
42:09 <Wrothmonk> I thought it would be like 9
42:16 <Wrothmonk> hrm...
42:18 <Falang> well that's what the email said
42:25 <Falang> I gotta run, discuss later
42:26 <Wrothmonk> check the website
42:29 <Wrothmonk> KK
42:34 <Falang> that time is off by an hour at least
42:51 <Falang> 6am I could maybe do
43:49 <Wrothmonk> I can easily add an hour or two
45:44 <Mekkis> wrothmonk: got a qt development environment set up yet?
46:26 <Wrothmonk> ?
46:35 <Mekkis> for building CA
48:05 <Wrothmonk> Afraid not. 
48:25 <Mekkis> what are you waiting for?
50:13 <Wrothmonk> to be honest, I kinda forgot.
53:53 <Mekkis> better get to it
54:00 <Wrothmonk> Yup, what do I need?
54:05 <Wrothmonk> http://qt-project.org/downloads this right?
54:08 <Mekkis> google
54:14 <Mekkis> yeah
54:19 <Wrothmonk> oh
54:21 <Wrothmonk> fuck
54:27 <Wrothmonk> now i know why it didnt work
54:36 <Mekkis> download, install, and compile CA
54:47 <Mekkis> PEBKAC?
55:01 <Wrothmonk> wait
55:03 <Wrothmonk> its working
56:34 <Mekkis> so you can run CA natively?
56:45 <Wrothmonk> its till installing
57:02 <Mekkis> oh
58:54 <Mekkis> wow. someone's flying an Australian flag!
58:59 <Wrothmonk> installed, now what do I need to do to compile CA?
01:40 <Wrothmonk> since I have no clue how to use QT
01:57 <Mekkis> the CA sourcecode
01:59 <Mekkis> or my sourcecode 
02:01 <Mekkis> does you mouse have a scrollwheel?
02:07 <Wrothmonk> yes
02:13 <Wrothmonk> its a trackpad
02:27 <Mekkis> download the sourcecode, open the .pro file
02:32 <Mekkis> and build it
08:45 <Wrothmonk> Qt Creator needs a compiler set up to build. Configure a compiler in the kit options.
10:00 <Mekkis> better do it
10:16 <Wrothmonk> And I have no idea how, nothing could go wrong!
13:35 <Mekkis> what are the options
16:19 <Wrothmonk> Looks like Linux ICC, GCC, or Clang
16:48 <Mekkis> try gcc?
16:51 <Wrothmonk> I'm not completely sure if I'm even looking at the right place.
17:43 <Wrothmonk> Looks like I need a compiler path, does it have to be somewhere in particular?
17:45 <Mekkis> I thought macs were supposed to be easy to use
18:08 <Wrothmonk> They are, the programs however are a different story
18:12 <Mekkis> open you console and type which gcc
18:28 <Wrothmonk> Whitch?
18:35 <Wrothmonk> which*
18:41 <Mekkis> which
18:44 <Wrothmonk> autocorrect is stupid
19:02 <Mekkis> I thought macs were supposed to be easy to use
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19:22 <Farang> okay, let's try this...
19:30 <Wrothmonk> Stop making a point. I'm stuck with this computer for the time being.
19:46 <Farang> wroth, you premade characters?
20:06 <Wrothmonk> Still kinda working on that. I'm trying to figure out gold
20:14 <Mekkis> falang, how's the campaign going?
20:24 <Farang> gold? why do we need gold?
20:27 Brunius|M ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
21:07 <Wrothmonk> well I want to make sure I give you guys the appropriate amount of equipment.
22:08 <Farang> skip equipment, its just a battle test right? only magic changed?
22:08 <Wrothmonk> Mekkis, there isnt a which GCC, its just labeled GCC
22:40 <Wrothmonk> right, but not all of it will be ranged.
22:50 <Mekkis> in the console, type which gcc
22:57 <Wrothmonk> oh
23:09 <Wrothmonk> literally "which gcc"?
23:23 <Farang> mekkis, slowly. woman things taking up time. she's trying to immigrate somewhere..
23:25 <Mekkis> that's what I've been saying!
23:32 Brunius|M- has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
23:48 <Wrothmonk> I feel like I have been in a who's on first routine.
24:04 <Farang> imagine how mekkis feels
24:58 <Mekkis> what's the output of which gcc?
25:28 <Wrothmonk> Erm, blank, it returned nothing
25:38 <Farang> all for naught!
25:50 <Mekkis> what about which make
26:14 <Mekkis> what about which which?
27:00 <Mekkis> hmmm... what about which cc?
27:17 <Farang> I'm surprised kids even know who's on first anymore, that must be fading..
27:28 <Wrothmonk> ok I think I'm using the wrong console, is it meant to be for just QT?
27:52 <Mekkis> what's who's on first.
27:58 * Farang is going to laugh when mekkis has a stroke
28:11 <Mekkis> the unix terminal where you type in commands
28:12 <Wrothmonk> I know it from here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ekLO8BwxwE
28:16 <diebot> Wrothmonk, World of Warcraft: Who's the Tank?
28:44 * Farang sighs, I guess that's better than nothing
29:10 <Wrothmonk> My dad was trying to apply it to something I knew
29:20 <Farang> poor guy.
29:31 <Mekkis> wrothmonk 
29:39 <Mekkis> you know the terminal 
29:59 <Mekkis> where you type ls to get a listing of files in a directory
30:09 <Farang> why would a Mac user ever touch a terminal? don't be silly.
30:21 * Wrothmonk mumbles "minecraft"
30:35 <Wrothmonk> I was just wondering since none of these returned anything
30:46 <Wrothmonk> wait, which which returned /usr/bin/which
30:51 <Mekkis> nothing at all?
30:54 <Farang> lol
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31:34 <Mekkis> what happens when you type cc?
31:45 <Wrothmonk> command not found
31:54 <Mekkis> no ? obv
32:00 <Mekkis> better install a C compiler
32:08 <Farang> maybe he needs to install dev tools
32:26 poundpuppy30 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
32:28 <Mekkis> that ^
33:27 <poundpuppy30> any pfs happening?
33:49 <Farang> hopefully not, terrible stuff!
34:29 <Wrothmonk> The only dev tools for mac I know about is xcode which I had to install for QT to function
34:45 <poundpuppy30> oh well thought id check
35:14 <Wrothmonk> well specifically for mac osx that is.
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44:32 <Farang> aww shit. got qa birthday party to go to tonight
45:38 <Farang> holy crap. there is like an endless stream of hot girls and milfs flowing in and out of this building
55:40 <Farang> mekkis, I do need a geographical location for my campaign, a place to start, out of the way with mountains and swamps and stuff nearby
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27:26 <Wrothmonk> How about in a little town up the coast? 
29:41 <Farang> not a town, more isolated and wildernessy 
31:40 <Steven> a lumber camp
33:04 <Farang> I'll go over a map when I get home
35:54 <Farang> wroth, what do you need help with on the true sorc thing?
36:39 <Farang> I can make up some wizards or something, though today will be a little busy for me. do you have notes?
38:24 <Wrothmonk> All I
38:35 <Wrothmonk> 'm really having problems with is figuring out what equipment to give
39:45 <Farang> a staff and a dagger.
40:16 <Wrothmonk> Hrm...
40:18 <Farang> they battle on the nude!
40:22 <Farang> in
40:22 <Wrothmonk> No
40:29 <Wrothmonk> I dont want peoples groins getting burned
40:35 <Wrothmonk> or slashed off
40:46 <Wrothmonk> or targeted in the first place
41:01 <Farang> wuss. groin injuries is what wizarding is all about
41:27 <Wrothmonk> I guess it could be just a robe or something
41:55 * Wrothmonk checks clothing section of d20
42:18 <Farang> this system does open up a whole new area for magic items though.. ring of spell energy, etc
43:29 <Farang> staffs giving casting skill bonuses
43:47 <Wrothmonk> Theres also the question of the map for a battle test
44:02 <Wrothmonk> Has to be a proper arena.
44:24 <Farang> use the nearest Denney's
44:37 <Farang> or waffle house
44:51 <Wrothmonk> :/
45:18 <Farang> kidding. I have tons of maps I downloaded, I can share with ya
46:41 <Farang> woop, time to go. bbl.
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50:00 <Mekkis> Steven, has Honey considered the Staff of Life?
56:28 <Steven> yeah, she considered it, but its super expensive
56:37 <Steven> for spells she already has on her list
58:13 <Mekkis> I suppose so
58:27 <Mekkis> but raise dead for no cost is nothing to laugh at
58:54 <Steven> its not raise dead for no cost, its basically prepaying for 21 deaths
59:16 <Mekkis> 10 if you take Arcane Heritage
00:07 <Steven> you mean eldritch heritage
00:23 <Mekkis> eldritch heritage (arcane)
00:23 <Steven> picking up the bonded item
00:38 <Steven> thats a two feat tax for 50k break.
00:50 <Mekkis> isn't a feat "worth" 5k?
01:11 <Steven> not at higher level play
01:18 <Steven> honey is level 14
01:21 <Mekkis> hmmm
01:34 <Steven> she has access to a great deal more money now.
01:43 <Mekkis> hmmm...
02:10 <Mekkis> If you're a Tattooed Sorcerer, can you then take the Arcane bloodline to have a bonded item
02:19 <Mekkis> or is it specifically disallowed?
02:28 <Mekkis> what about if you already have a familiar?
02:30 <Steven> im not a tattooed sorc though.
03:38 <Mekkis> I know. This is a rules question
03:59 <Mekkis> I'm not sure what it really means when it says "This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item."
04:18 <Wrothmonk> whats the feat?
04:28 <Mekkis> !feat Eldrich heritage
04:29 <diebot> Mekkis, ELDRITCH HERITAGE []Prereq:  Cha 13, Skill Focus with the class skill of bloodline selected for this feat (see below), character level 3rd.  You are descended from a long line of sorcerers, and some portion of their power flows in your veins.
04:30 <diebot> Benefit:  Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat
04:30 <diebot> your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities. Source: UM
05:48 <Steven> it means if you have a familiar or a bonded item and you take that feat picking an option where you get a familiar or bonded item you dont get access to that class ability.
05:57 <Steven> perhaps access isnt the right word
06:03 <Steven> you dont get the benefits of it.
07:06 <Mekkis> so you still get the bonded item, you just can't use it to cast a spell you know?
08:27 <Mekkis> that reminds me, Steven 
08:37 <Steven> no you dont get a bonded item, thats a benefit of the feat.
11:46 <Mekkis> !feat fleet
11:47 <diebot> Mekkis, FLEET [] You are faster than most.
11:48 <diebot> Benefit:  While you are wearing light or no armor, your base speed increases by 5 feet. You lose the benefits of this feat if you carry a medium or heavy load.
11:48 <diebot> Special:  You can take this feat multiple times. The effects stack.  Source: Core
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15:06 <Wrothmonk> Hey mekkis, steven, are either of you interested in joining the playtest for true sorcery? 
16:02 <Mekkis> explain. 
17:32 <Steven> hmmm.... i currently have a lot on my plate.
17:40 <Steven> i think i am going to pass on it man.
17:47 <Falang> whew. home.
17:52 <Falang> soo hot
18:24 <Wrothmonk> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/202013/True%20Sorcery.pdf Me and falang have been working out how to apply these rules to pathfinder. I've scheduled a play test for this saturday to help work out some more stuff.
18:41 <Mekkis> what are you intending to test
18:41 <Wrothmonk> sunday morning for you guys
19:00 <Falang> well actually you didn't much include me in it, i just gave you books. bad feels :(
20:04 <Wrothmonk> Combat, some archetypes, and gauging power.
21:10 <Wrothmonk> Hey, you have helped out with some things I got stuck on. I was going to talk over the archetypes with you today.
21:24 <Wrothmonk> You are helping quite a lot :)
21:46 <Falang> heheh. 
22:22 <Falang> anyway, like I said I can make characters for ya or whatnot, it'd be good to spread the spells around so each had different focuses.  an enchanter, a fire mage, etc..
24:08 <Wrothmonk> Yeah I definitely need help on the pregens as well.
24:21 <Wrothmonk> Just doing them will be a bit of a pain since theres so many combinations.
24:32 <Falang> you decide on a level?  1st?  5th?
25:11 <Falang> we can just whip up 6-8 pregens, give them all the same stats, 18 in everything, full hitpoints, same skills mostly, and just change the talents
25:29 <Falang> base some on your favorite fantasy wizards!
25:30 <Wrothmonk> 18 i everything, really?
25:35 <Wrothmonk> in*
25:43 <Falang> why not?  10 in everything?  16?  what difference does it make?
25:58 <Falang> it's a test, as long as the numbers are the same for everybody it's fair.
26:20 andrey has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
26:31 <Wrothmonk> Well I do want to gauge how powerful people are against some monsters. I mean, I dont want to create a campaign only to find out they one-shot the dragon
27:00 <Falang> then 14's across the board?
27:25 <Mekkis> So I'm assuming we're not using The Modern Spellcaster
27:31 <Wrothmonk> Actually, lets leave that to people creating their own chars. Who knows, they could make something pretty good.
27:38 <Falang> no, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.. 
27:43 <Mekkis> Ummm... Why not 20 point buy?
27:46 <Falang> too time consuming
27:48 <Mekkis> or
27:50 <Mekkis> !vchargen
27:52 <diebot> Mekkis, 16(2,6,6,4), 6(1,1,4,1), 17(6,5,4,6), 10(4,1,5,1), 13(5,6,1,2), 17(6,4,6,5)
27:54 <Falang> that's the whole point in pregen
27:56 <Mekkis> or, if you want higher
27:59 <Mekkis> !vpchargen
28:01 <diebot> Mekkis, 17(1,6,5,1,6), 16(4,2,6,6,4), 12(5,4,1,1,3), 16(3,4,6,5,5), 17(1,5,2,6,6), 15(1,5,4,6,1)
28:29 <Falang> we want to test the magic system, making people work up full characters to test one thing is going to waste a lot of time.
28:45 <Mekkis> What benchmark are you using?
29:54 <Wrothmonk> benchmark? How so? If you mean by level its going to be 1, 5, 10, and 15 
30:13 <Mekkis> To tell if something's balanced, you need to start by defining "balance"
31:03 <Mekkis> if I told you I have a character that could do 1000 points of damage at level 10, you couldn't say it was unbalanced until you worked out what "1000 points of damage" and "level 10" actually meant.
35:16 <Mekkis> Are you trying to compare a Spellcaster with a Wizard?
35:31 <Wrothmonk> somewhat yeah
35:34 <Mekkis> or comparing a Spellcaster to see if it fares against a fighter?
36:16 <Mekkis> or comparing a party of four characters to see if it fares against a CR-appropriate encounter, then doing the same, but replacing the PFRPG spellcasters with TS Spellcasters?
36:45 <Wrothmonk> Thats what I was planning with the vs monsters stuff.
37:29 <Mekkis> Have you codified the changes to skills?
39:09 <Mekkis> To start with, you should obtain a bunch of characters.
39:21 andrey ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
40:51 <Mekkis> As I see it, giving 18s across the board will result in an unrealistic result.
41:48 <Falang> that's why I said 14, against monsters and whatnot it'll be okay.
42:18 <Falang> maybe we should throw a standard mage vs. true sorc mage battle too.. free for all etc.
42:30 <Wrothmonk> I was thinking that myself
42:37 <Mekkis> if you use 20 point buy, it means you get a nice pool of PFS characters to test against.
42:54 <Wrothmonk> However the 14 all across isnt realistic of what people will make for our campaigns.
43:41 <Falang> doesn't matter, it's simple. either you want to spend 3 hours just making characters or you want to just try it out.
44:00 <Falang> if we do point buy then everybody has to make characters for a one shot test
44:19 <Wrothmonk> but we are the ones making the characters
45:03 <Wrothmonk> however I think I have a solution
46:50 <Wrothmonk> we make all humans, each one has two 14s and an 18 (being the one with the human +2).
48:28 <Wrothmonk> its easy enough to just shuffle the same numbers around to different stats.
48:53 <Falang> it's inconsequential to follow the rules and give bonuses to humans, we don't need to go through all that trouble to make them, this isn't PFS.
48:58 <Mekkis> your choice. If you like contriving characters
49:01 <Falang> assign attributes, move on
49:14 <Mekkis> I'd just snaff other people's PFS characters, but that's me.
49:15 <Falang> battle test only.
49:16 <Mekkis> So.
49:24 <Mekkis> What have you done with skills?
50:35 <Wrothmonk> added in the new ones and using the pathfinder system?
52:15 <Wrothmonk> Replacing the pathfinder spellcraft with the true sorcerery spellcraft obviously.
53:55 <Falang> ah, actually we have a nice pool of pregens from PF. the NPC book thingy and the 1/4/7 wizard the provide
54:04 <Wrothmonk> Yup
54:26 <Falang> maybe shuffle the spell selection around a bit, but either way. not a big deal.
58:33 <Wrothmonk> Well it seems like it would be easy to just spit out pregens at this point. All we need are stats and spells and we could just have everyone pick.
58:44 <Wrothmonk> the spells I mean
59:29 <Falang> You'll need to prep an explanation of how the system works, step by step
59:40 <Wrothmonk> Hrm yeah...
59:59 <Falang> and everybody will need a copy of the pdf to see what they can do with their spells
00:40 <Falang> I wouldn't recommend letting people pick their talents, just pregen those too, or I can do that part in my spare time tonight.
01:10 <Wrothmonk> Why wouldnt you recommend it?
01:24 <Falang> just bam, character sheet, these are your spells, here's the book, look them up and pre-figure out some spells you want to try to do and have them ready. otherwise it's going to take forever just to do a burning hands
01:36 <Wrothmonk> hrm fair point.
03:11 <Falang> so.. make *1* pregen, level him up level by level and write down what spells he took, so we can fill them in as slots later
03:29 <Falang> like 1st level, 'force', etc. 
04:06 <Falang> what magnitude those spells were in
04:12 <Falang> those will be the flexible bits
04:33 <Falang> one gets fire, one gets earth, etc.. a few elemental mages, illusionist, etc.
04:35 <Mekkis> problem with the NPC book is that it was all built to 15 point buy
04:48 <Mekkis> because it was written by guys who didn't play Pathfinder.
05:35 <Falang> I don't think a few attribute points here or there is going to change the fate of the world.
06:12 <Falang> this is about the magic system, they won't be shooting at each other with crossbows or grappling
06:59 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
07:27 <Falang> precisely what I said.
07:39 <Mekkis> Unless your objective is to make nonspellcasters useless.
07:41 <Wrothmonk> oh I didnt mention? part of it will be pvp.
07:55 <Mekkis> the spellcasters should remain balanced
08:40 <Falang> we can compare it vs. non-spellcasters later, this is more about playtesting the system itself and comparing it to PF magic.
09:10 <Wrothmonk> I'd say we can get past that in less than 6 hours.
09:17 <Mekkis> so you're saying that a 10th level Spellcaster should be able to take on Deceased about 50:50?
09:19 <Wrothmonk> the system itself that is.
09:30 <Mekkis> So. Have you codified exactly how you're doing skills?
09:48 <Falang> besides, I think that whole balance thing is utter crap. it's constructed to be balanced etc etc.. all this artificial excuses, mages can't wear armor.. oh wait, unless they take a feat.. etc.. it's all pointless. Guess what, Gandalf was the most powerful in LOTR. He did magic. end or story.
09:58 <Mekkis> ummm
10:01 <Falang> There's no reason to change the skill system
10:09 <Mekkis> Guess what? Gandalf was a cleric in LotR
10:19 <Mekkis> about 7th level.
10:56 <Falang> spellcasters can alter the reality of the game, period. That's what they do. If you want to do that, be a spellcaster, if you want to slice shit into pieces, be a fighter, etc.
11:08 <Mekkis> more to the point
11:31 <Mekkis> there's a lot of emphasis on the Concentration skill. One of the changes between 3.5e and Pathfinder was the removal of said skill.
11:41 <Falang> the basic combat system itself is all the 'balance' that's really needed, spellcasters typically can't fight well, less hitpoints, lower ACs, etc.
12:03 <Falang> cast a spell and provoke
12:14 <Mekkis> haha
12:38 <Mekkis> that's not how it works. 5' and cast a spell and not provoke.
12:48 <Mekkis> Cast defensively, and don't provoke
13:04 <Mekkis> oh, unless you're fighting a 10th level fighter who took the Spellbreaker feat.
13:08 <Falang> I know that, I'm playing ToEE right now, but it's not always an option.
13:10 <Mekkis> and Step Up
13:15 <Brunius> Why was Gandalf a cleric
13:30 <Mekkis> Look at the spells he cast, for starters
13:38 <Falang> Gandalf was like.. uhh.. if I recall my LOTR lore correctly, an angel or something.
13:43 <Wrothmonk> I personally think you should be able to increase your concentration check by putting skill ranks in it.
13:52 <Wrothmonk> you said he was a wizard?
13:56 <Steven> he was a nephelem basically, angelic human thing
14:02 <Falang> but I don't agree he was a cleric by any means, the magic is typically just more subtle.  I just think he was lazy. :)
14:20 <Mekkis> subtle like casting &light on the end of his wand?
14:25 <diebot> FIGHT ON []Prereq:  Con 13; dwarf, half-orc, or orc.  You can keep fighting even after you should be dead.
14:25 <diebot> Benefit:  Once per day, you can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. You can activate this feat as an immediate action when reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. You can use this feat to prevent yourself from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If your hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of
14:26 <diebot> these temporary hit points, you fall unconscious and are dying as normal. If you also have the ferocity racial trait, you can use that once you have lost the temporary hit points from this feat. Source: APG
14:26 <diebot> SPELL SPECIALIZATION []Prereq:  Int 13, Spell Focus.  Select one spell. You cast that spell with greater than normal power.
14:26 <diebot> Benefit:  Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell. Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that
14:26 <diebot> spell becomes your specialized spell.
14:26 <diebot> Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different spell. Source: UM
14:29 <Mekkis> :o
14:33 <Brunius> Nice one
14:34 <Falang> wtf
14:42 <Wrothmonk> wtf happended?
14:49 <Mekkis> ah
14:55 <Falang> mekkis being sloppy :)
15:15 <Mekkis> the & will match anything that has a Liechtenstein distance of 3 or less.
15:30 <Mekkis> and it will remove words from the end of the line until it does.
15:41 <Wrothmonk> liechtenstein distance? 
15:47 <Mekkis> What happened was that the distance between "light on" and "fight on" is 1.
15:58 <Mekkis> So it didn't bother removing the "on"
16:19 <Wrothmonk> oh I see, letter difference
16:23 <Mekkis> Sorry, Levenshtein
16:38 <Wrothmonk> no clue on the exact meaning on that word either
16:45 <Mekkis> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance
16:47 <Brunius> It's a name, I think
16:47 <Falang> anyway, this system is already balanced within it's own d20/3.5 system, one not so different than PF, so it should be pretty balanced already.
16:48 <Mekkis> read all about it!
16:55 <Brunius> Why did it highlight spell specialisation?
17:03 <Mekkis> because that was in the buffer
17:29 <Mekkis> it was an attempt at asynchronous handling.
18:12 <Mekkis> Falang, 3.5e balanced? heh. 3.5e splatbooks balanced? ha ha. Third-party 3.5e splatbooks balanced? you're joking right?
19:05 <Wrothmonk> you should probably change that so its required the & be at the beginning of the chat. 
19:16 <Mekkis> that's not the point
19:39 <Mekkis> The idea is that you can say something like: I think &power attack is required for any fighting class
19:53 <Mekkis> and get the text to come out.
20:11 <Wrothmonk> makes input a lot more controlled.
20:11 <Falang> *ahem* 
20:21 <Mekkis> but yeah. Some issues still
20:28 diebot has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
20:54 <Wrothmonk> Ah
20:55 <Wrothmonk> I see
21:14 diebot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
21:27 Mekkis gives channel half-operator status to diebot
21:33 <Wrothmonk> code in a A.I. that understand language to the point of near sentience as it can tell when you do and dont mean to have the thing to come up? :P
22:00 <Mekkis> Good idea. You do it
22:07 <Wrothmonk> anyway, back to "balance" 
22:12 <Falang> it was balanced within the True20 system, not that different really. Anyway, that's something that will be evaluated later, we'll go up against each other, vanilla wizards, and monsters.
22:30 <Mekkis> [citation needed]
22:42 <Falang> if these guys stomp the vanilla wizard team horribly, and the monsters horribly, then it needs tweaking
22:53 <Wrothmonk> Which is why we are doing that.
23:04 <Falang> we will need players though, I'm guessing at least 6.
23:20 <Wrothmonk> I set the max to this weekends game to 8
23:27 <Falang> I don't see why we couldn't throw pregen fighters in there though in place of monsters, if mekkis is going to keep his panties in a bunch about it.
24:32 Tashes has quit (EOF from client)
24:39 <Wrothmonk> Anyway, do you want in to the game or not?
25:01 <Falang> need experienced players, it should just be a couple of hours I guess eh?
25:12 <Falang> Steven and Mekkis and Avatar would be invaluable.
25:44 <Falang> if the munchkins whine about something being too powerful you know something is wrong ;)
25:47 <Mekkis> As I said, I can be available, but I want to know what your aims are, what you've changed, and what's happening
28:03 <Steven> i heard my name
28:14 <Steven> or rather it beeped at me as soneone said my name
28:16 <Wrothmonk> oh falang, did you get chance to check the website to see if the time was right on your email?
29:12 <Falang> not yet, making lunch.
29:20 <Falang> don't sweat it, i'll get up.
29:21 <Falang> either way
29:38 <Falang> actually if it's at like 4am my time I ususally wake up then anyway
29:46 <Wrothmonk> XD
30:01 <Wrothmonk> well I want everyone to be able to get in.
31:30 <Mekkis> Steven, do you print out maps for dungeons?
33:08 <Falang> Mekkis: the aims are to test it as a PF magic system replacement as far as I understand things, or at least that was my original aim. What's changed is the whole spellcasting system. what's happening is a playtest. PvP and team battles. Mage on mage violence.
34:11 <Falang> Not sure how you didn't get all that out of the past hour of conversation.
34:15 <Steven> no i usually do not print out maps for dungeons
38:57 <Wrothmonk> Also if there is enough interest after the playtests this may become a new campaign.
47:57 <Wrothmonk> Well goodnight.
08:25 Wrothmonk has quit (Connection closed)
31:29 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
38:11 Wrothmonk has quit (Connection closed)
46:20 <Steven> avatar hows that character commin along?
49:59 <Steven> updated honey, cl21 for channel, 13d6 DC27
55:36 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Thurs 16th 7:30pm (tier 1-7,Mekkis) / Fri 24th 6pm (tier 1-5,Avatar) | WotW: Sat 25th 1:30pm || All topic times are AEST (UTC+10:00); set up your timezone on the site for local times in the Schedule! | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
55:36 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Tue May 14 19:20:32 2013
55:36 <***> Buffer Playback...
55:36 <***> Playback Complete.
56:42 <Avatar> what's that archetype for oracle, dual cursed?
57:37 <Mekkis> it's horrible
57:43 <Steven> you like bein cursed?
57:44 <Steven> lol
58:06 <Avatar> yeah I want to min max to pieces
58:16 <Mekkis> Quoted.
58:16 <Avatar> why is it horrible
58:28 <Avatar> Mekkis: it doesn't work if you're a rules lawyer
58:33 <Avatar> there's always exceptions
58:36 <Mekkis> !define global Avatar: <Avatar> yeah I want to min max to pieces
58:37 <diebot> Mekkis, <Avatar> yeah I want to min max to pieces defined as ??Avatar
58:59 <Avatar> !define global Mekkis: <Mekkis> I take things out of context
59:00 <diebot> Avatar, <Mekkis> I take things out of context defined as ??Mekkis
59:16 <Avatar> ??mekkis
59:31 <Avatar> <diebot> Pathfinder GM, MTG Judge, and diebot's programmer.
59:38 <Avatar> pedestal much
00:07 <Brunius> ??Mekkis
00:17 <Brunius> >?Mekkis
00:29 <Brunius> ??mekkis
00:33 <Brunius> Ha
00:47 <Brunius> It's case sensitive Avatar
00:52 <Avatar> ??Mekkis
01:20 <Avatar> I didn't say "I also"
01:38 <Brunius> Yeah, I added that
01:45 <Brunius> It was already set to Coder of diebot
01:58 <Brunius> Then I said !define global add Mekkis: I also take things out of context
02:08 <Avatar> when
02:13 <Avatar> in secret
02:32 <Brunius> in msg
03:11 <Steven> so avatar
03:16 <Avatar> dual cursed does seem to suck
03:23 <Steven> it does indeed suck.
03:36 <Avatar> did you end up recommending any good archetypes last night
04:14 <Steven> unless of course you look at this spell
04:21 <Steven> !spell Oracle's Burden
04:29 <Avatar> I did look at that
04:32 <diebot> Steven, ORACLE'S BURDEN necromancy ([curse]) oracle 2 1 standard action Range: medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) one creature Comp: V Duration: 1 minute/level Save: Will negates SR:yes
04:32 <diebot> You entreat the forces of fate to bestow your oracle's curse upon another creature. The target creature suffers all the hindrances and none of the benefits of your oracle's curse class feature. You still suffer all effects of your oracle's curse. If you do not have the oracle's curse class feature, this spell has no effect.
04:32 <Avatar> appears to be shit
04:57 <Steven> it feels that way, but its actually fairly powerful depending on your curse
05:06 <Brunius> how is it targetted
05:16 <Mekkis>  medium
05:18 <Avatar> medium range target
05:19 <Mekkis> will negates
05:30 <Avatar> I was thinking of just going tongues 
05:35 <Avatar> and uh
05:36 <Brunius> Does that just mean you go "Fuck that guy" and he gets blinded?
05:44 <Brunius> assuming he fails the will
05:46 <Avatar> yeah
05:53 <Avatar> will negates isn't nothing
06:29 <Steven> its the drawback to the spell
06:37 <Steven> but if you were a dub cursed oracle
06:46 <Steven> he gains the effects of both your curses
06:51 <Avatar> clouded vision sounds somewhat frightening
07:49 <Steven> imagine facing a creature that you hit with wrecker and consumed.
07:52 <Avatar> wasting is cheap
08:04 <Steven> your targets gear is then broken
08:05 <Avatar> are these curses from blood of angels/fiends legal
08:10 <Steven> yes they are
08:25 <Steven> and they take 1.5 damage from all attacks
09:05 <Avatar> wrecker is nasty
09:29 <Avatar> that would destroy scenarios
09:32 <Avatar> with that kind of build
10:01 <Steven> anyways, have you decided on a race?
10:22 * Steven readies to punch avatar in the face.
12:53 <Steven> its okay theres only one wrong answer!
13:00 <Steven> well i guess two
13:05 <Avatar> need to decide on a curse before I do anything you crazy person
13:20 <Avatar> why would you choose race and stats before class
13:27 <Brunius> Uh
13:28 <Brunius> Flavour
13:33 <Avatar> class is flavour
13:41 <Brunius> A sneaky guy doesn't always have to be a rogue
14:02 <Avatar> a dex 18 halfling doesn't have to be sneaky either
14:04 <Steven> see this is how we know avatar is doomed on this endevor, he doesnt know how to cheese build
14:06 <Avatar> a rogue is more likely to be
14:15 <Brunius> A dex 18 halfling is quite likely to be sneaky
14:30 <Brunius> With a +8 to stealth without any ranks in it
14:30 <Avatar> Steven: that's why when I'm trying to cheese, I get a working character
15:07 <Steven> the reason you need to look at the races is because some of the alternate favored will negate cureses completely
15:47 <Avatar> legalistic sounds cool
16:41 <Steven> like gnomes +1/2 to oracle level for determining curse
16:44 <Avatar> Steven: example?
17:32 <Avatar> jesus that's pretty good
17:43 <Avatar> gnomes are my most hated race
18:00 <Steven> i think halflings have it as well
18:14 <Steven> but you dont really want to bother upping your curse level when there are so much better options out there
18:37 <Avatar> like what
19:13 <Steven> half elfs, humans, and half orcs all add spells to your spells known list.
19:25 <Steven> the only stipulation is that they must be 1 level lower than highest level you can cast
19:37 <Avatar> that's shit
19:47 <Steven> no its actually rather good.
20:01 <Steven> the first 5 levels are bad
20:10 <Avatar> this elven revelation one might be good
20:12 <Steven> but after that its amazing
20:35 <Steven> elves get the 1/2 to determining level of one revelation
20:48 <Steven> so do tieflings and aasimar
21:35 <Steven> wait no nevermind tieflings dont get jack
22:24 <Steven> if you plan on building a uses/day oracle elf or aasimar is where you want to go
22:47 <Steven> because you will get stronger effects for your level
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24:02 <Steven> and aasimar are the superior choice out of the two.
25:38 <Avatar> I didn't realise you only get 3 relevations up to level 12
25:43 <Avatar> oops, 4
26:37 <Steven> you can get a ring that can get you another one
26:54 <Steven> and there is a feat that will allow you to select another revelation
28:56 <Avatar> ahhh extra relevation
29:08 <Steven> i dont suggest you take them at lower levels unless you need one of them
30:05 * Falang pictures Steven and Avatar's characters, sitting around in a tavern, browsing through Magic Item Catalogues over a cup of ale, working up christmas wishlists..
30:29 <Steven> I already have my characters christmas list
30:33 <Avatar> I don't like magic
30:46 <Avatar> I bought the game on steam and I am terrible at it
31:17 <Steven> Belt of +6 stats, +5 cha tome, Regalia of Heaven afterwards if i get enough money
32:06 <Steven> shes working back up towards that +5 cha tome after running through eyes of the ten.
40:55 <Brunius> DotP? It's bad man
55:54 <***> Buffer Playback...
55:54 <***> Playback Complete.
56:15 <Mekkis> Brunius, Geoff Huston posted regarding NBN
56:33 <Mekkis> So the critical question in the FttN approach is: How do you get from your house to the node over this copper? Well good old DSL, that’s how! How fast does DSL go? Like the question "how fast does my mobile data service go?" the answer about DLS speed is "… it depends". 
56:42 <Mekkis> http://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2013-04/wtf.html
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