#d&d - 2013-05-09 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-05-09

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« 2013-05-08 2013-05-10 »
00:03 <Wrothmonk> but then your already exhausted and fatigued 
00:14 <Falang> it doesn't say that, but it's a logical extension of the thinking..
00:35 <Wrothmonk>  Whenever a spellcaster casts a spell effect, instead of the drain dealing nonlethal damage, it instead deducts from her Casting Buffer. When the Casting Buffer falls to half, the spellcaster is fatigued for 1 hour. If reduced to 0, she is exhausted for 1 hour and then fatigued for 1 hour. The Casting Buffer is replenished at 1 point per hour per character level.
00:45 <Falang> nonlethal is done to what, your con? I never read those rules
00:52 <Wrothmonk> To con
01:01 <Wrothmonk> hrm I probably should double check those rules as well...
01:24 <Falang> then just say the buffer is a bonus on top of your con for spellcasting purposes only
01:35 <Falang> bonus nonlethal points
01:37 <Wrothmonk> Spell energy is that I think
01:46 <Wrothmonk> spell energy functions as a DR for the nonlethal
01:58 <Falang> like I said, we can try obht
01:59 <Falang> both
02:03 <Falang> easy enough
02:09 <Wrothmonk> Being exhausted deals nonlethal...
02:29 <Falang> PF is a high magic setting, so it'll require some tweaking to keep things together
02:42 <Wrothmonk> Amen to that.
02:54 <Falang> magic users are expected to be hurling spells every round
03:50 <Wrothmonk> I'll do some math for it late. Right now i need bed
03:57 <Wrothmonk> later*
05:58 <Falang> l8r
06:19 <Wrothmonk> Cya, goodnight
06:50 <Wrothmonk> Who knew magic required so much math :P 
07:42 <Hydrazine> ...Wizards?
07:58 <Wrothmonk> Anyone who watch The Sorcerer's apprentice...
08:00 <Wrothmonk> which I did
08:02 <Wrothmonk> I'm tired
08:05 <Wrothmonk> Goodnight :P
08:12 <Hydrazine> Sorcs don't work so hard.
08:14 <Hydrazine> Everyone knows that.
08:25 <Wrothmonk> Have you not seen that movie?
20:29 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: TBA | WotW: Sat 11th 1pm || All topic times are AEST (UTC+10:00); set up your timezone on the site for local times in the Schedule! | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
20:29 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sat May  4 16:27:22 2013
20:29 <***> Buffer Playback...
20:30 <***> Playback Complete.
23:24 Mekkis_x200 has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
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40:54 Raine is now known as kapow
41:05 <kapow> hey trying to remember something
41:08 <kapow> prestige class
41:13 <kapow> it's either cleric or paladin aligned
41:25 <kapow> and it makes your paladin or cleric level count as your fighter level
41:28 <kapow> but at half
41:35 <kapow> forget the name of the prestige class
41:41 <kapow> anyone know which one it is?
42:26 <kapow> could be an archetype
50:54 <kapow> anyone read it before?
51:19 <Falang> I'm sure Steven knows. I think he's sleeping thoguh.
54:07 <kapow> you get half your levels in that class as fighter levels when qualifying for fighter level feats
59:45 <kapow> found it :D
02:01 * Falang does a jig of joy
02:56 <Mekkis> anyone here read Off To Be The Wizard?
03:54 <Falang> nope..
04:13 <Mekkis> good concept, plot could use some work :S
05:38 <Falang> scott meyer?
06:53 <Falang> forgot the existential shock or something?
08:43 <Mekkis> JA
08:43 <Mekkis> So, today a doctor told me to "Go to Hungry Jack's and ask for the fattiest burger the have. Then eat two of them…
09:54 <Mekkis> no, I can't believe that a bunch of programmers who made a "shell" like that would make such an... interesting... UI
12:18 <Falang> off to bed. gnight all.
21:57 <Falang> I'll snag it and give it a read..
27:19 <Brunius> Got me a sweet medical certificate
28:06 <Falang> finally found out what's wrong with ya?
28:13 <Falang> Wroth: kinda past yer bedtime ain't it?
36:18 <Mekkis> Brunius, does it tell you to go to Hungry Jacks and eat two of their fattiest burgers?
37:10 <Brunius> It tells my teacher that (me with a slightly misspelled name) is unfit for work from 9/5/13 to 9/5/13
37:37 <Mekkis> how unfit?
37:50 <Mekkis> you're suffering from "A medical condition"?
38:06 <Brunius> "In my professional opinion is"
38:50 <Mekkis> "In my professional opinion, Branius is suffering from A MEDICAL CONDITION and is unfit for work from....
21:49 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
26:30 <Steven> well that was fun.
27:14 <Steven> just got into an arguement with people down at the shop because they didnt get a boon.
27:37 <Brunius> ha
27:54 <Falang> SMH. Nerds.
27:55 <Steven> they were so displeased with my ruling they went and got walter
28:39 <Steven> they scryed on a dude, then tried to teleport to his location.
28:45 <Steven> I said it doesnt work.
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19:05 Wrothmon_ is now known as Wrothmonk_
19:10 <Wrothmonk_> goddamnit
19:17 <Wrothmonk_> Die Wrothmonk!
20:51 Wrothmonk has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
20:58 Wrothmonk_ is now known as Wrothmonk
00:50 <Avatar> better wis
00:51 <Avatar> that's it
01:05 <Steven> quite a bit better actually
01:12 <Avatar> 9 14 15 18 7 7 before elf & trans
01:14 <Steven> you arent taking -2 to your will saves
01:52 <Avatar> sorry, you've added in tiefling
02:00 <Avatar> 9 16 14 20 7 7
02:14 <Steven> yeah, no point in not just giving you racial stats
02:26 <Avatar> I'm taking -2 to will saves, but I'm adding +1 to AC
02:33 <Avatar> acceptable
02:47 <Avatar> I've always preferred a higher dex than a higher wis
03:09 <Steven> with the tiefling, you are not taking -2 to will saves and you are still hitting 16dex after trans mode
03:11 <Steven> mod
03:36 <Avatar> you're making this hard for me 
03:58 <Steven> the only difference is instead of having a 9 in a dump stat you have a 7.
04:55 <Steven> well... that and you pick up darkvision, a free darkness, some resistances
05:03 <Steven> and better racial feats
05:38 <Avatar> don't elves already get some alternate racial traits that give you darkvision
05:55 <Steven> no, they were banned.
06:11 <Steven> because there is a no drow rule.
06:15 <Steven> not even half drow.
07:27 <Steven> you also get to trade out fiendish sorcery for a prehensile tail that lets you retrive an item from your person as a swift action.
09:06 <Avatar> I haven't really looked at tieflings before because I have a certain deep hatred for them
09:13 <Avatar> but they are pretty damn enticing aren't they
09:57 <Avatar> what is the stat block before adding in tiefling adjustments?
10:16 <Steven> 7/13/14/18/10/9
10:16 <Avatar> 7 13 14 18 10 9 ?
10:29 <Steven> because you dont want a 5cha lol
11:42 <Avatar> and if I took a 5 cha, I could have a 13 wis
12:04 <Avatar> nah can't do that
12:13 <Steven> pretty much... and thats with tiefling... you could always go aasimar
12:22 <Avatar> forget aasimar
12:27 <Avatar> my urban druid is an aasimar and I feel let down
12:27 <Steven> lol
12:37 <Steven> did you cheese your urban druid?
12:46 <Avatar> how do you cheese an urban druid
12:58 <Avatar> I was aiming for call lightning before I realised how shit it was
13:10 <Steven> nah, you need to go for sheet lightning
13:18 <Avatar> what is sheet lightning
13:24 <Steven> !spell sheet lightning
13:24 <diebot> Steven, SHEET LIGHTNING evocation ([electricity]) druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3 1 standard action Range: medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) 20-ft.-radius spread Comp: V, S Duration: instantaneous Save: Fortitude partial SR:yes
13:24 <diebot> You create a dazzling flash of electricity that fills the target area. Sheet lightning inflicts 1 point of electricity damage to all creatures within the area of effect (no save). The true power of the spell, though, lies not in the damage it inflicts but in the overwhelming pain the lightning creates. The sudden flash and jolt dazes living
13:24 <diebot> creatures for 1 round if they fail a saving throw. Creatures that save are instead dazzled for 1 round. Any creature wearing metal armor takes a -2 penalty to its saving throw against this spell.
14:14 <Avatar> yeah not terrible
14:26 <Steven> way better than call lightning
14:39 <Avatar> don't know about that
15:34 <Avatar> I just wish players would use dice that can actually be read. Using dark <enter color here> dice with black ink might as well be snatched up after rolling them since no one can read them anyway. And using uninked clear dice, like gamescience, just screams, "I'm hiding something."
15:49 <Avatar> that one's for you mekkis
16:42 <Steven> ugh i hate dark on dark dice
16:50 <Steven> well basically any color combiniation thats hard to see
16:55 <Steven> yellow on bright orange
17:16 <Avatar> mekkis has these metal dice that sound cool when they drop, but are unreadable
17:17 <Steven> i usually go with dark dice with gold numbering, or light dice with black lettering.
17:35 <Steven> oh man we had a guy at the shop with those dice
17:42 <Avatar> he's rolled them so they land right in front of my face and I looked down at it and couldn't read it
17:47 <Brunius> See, my gamescience dice have paint in the numbers
17:49 <Steven> they were cool looking, all metal filgree
18:00 <Steven> but completely unreadible.
18:00 <Brunius> Maybe you're just getting old Avatar
18:07 <Avatar> yeah I won't rule it out
18:14 <Avatar> I seriously need an eye test
18:21 <Avatar> but I don't think that was the case here
19:25 <Steven> got an email last week, some new kids going to show up to play in august.
19:53 <Avatar> in here?
20:06 <Steven> no at the local shop
20:43 <Steven> just blew me away, 3+months and hes hittin up the local scene
20:57 <Avatar> what?
21:04 <Steven> for information.
22:50 <Steven> i would love if they came out with a strix boon... but its never going to happen.
27:57 <Steven> you know... i just realized, since sam and i split, i have gotten to listen to clutch whenever the fuck i have wanted.  Gotta love that.
29:44 <Avatar> relationships suck
29:52 <Avatar> I could've told you that but you were busy talking about sex all the time and it got stale
30:07 <Steven> well ya know... that sex was pretty awesome
30:15 <Avatar> hook up with her 
30:31 <Avatar> you don't need to listen to the clutch really do you
30:34 <Steven> cant, shes a cheater, cant trust her.
30:43 <Avatar> bloody relationships aye
33:06 <Steven> I have decided. I am going to make another Oracle with my boon.
34:38 <Avatar> are oracles that good
34:46 <Avatar> I really can't bring myself to consider even playing my inquisitor
35:01 <Avatar> turning to an oracle instead might be the way to go
35:16 <Steven> why cant you see yourself playing your inquisitor
35:26 <Avatar> I don't like him
35:43 <Steven> why not?
35:49 <Avatar> same reason I didn't like inquisitors to begin with, they just seem like a boring class
35:59 <Avatar> I'm sure I'm missing something but I don't know what
36:11 * Steven shrugs.
36:19 <Avatar> to be fair I haven't really drilled it in to myself to work out how to play him, so that might be it
36:30 <Steven> i like my character Ausk.
36:38 <Avatar> but then I'm given sexy options like a wizard! or an oracle!
36:45 <Steven> but thats because he is a jack of all trades.  I always have something to do.
37:00 <Avatar> yeah I've got 2 other characters who always have something to do
37:08 <Avatar> I want some specialisers again
37:28 <Steven> create an oracle, they are pretty cool with their curses
37:33 <Avatar> wizard is kind of ideal because my last one died at level 3 and I feel robbed, and I love them
38:01 <Steven> i created one that had the clouded vision.  Its fun to pretend your blind.
38:14 <Steven> like when the GM is like Off in the distance you see a Castle.
38:22 <Steven> and you get to inform him, well i dont see that shit!
38:24 <Avatar> NOPE not me
38:56 <Steven> lots of options with an oracle
39:04 <Brunius> Didn't your bard die at level 1
39:09 <Brunius> why don't you feel robbed by that
39:22 <Avatar> the bard was a joke character
39:26 <Avatar> I didn't know PFS back then
39:47 <Avatar> and he died to stupidity, not helplessness
40:03 <Avatar> after 2 stabilisation checks
42:54 <Steven> theres a lore oracle avatar, who gets all kn skills and a +int revelation
44:05 <Avatar> yeah I've only glanced at lore, but it sounds promising
44:15 <Avatar> I'm focusing on the wizard for now
58:08 <Steven> wow spellscar sucks since you cant pick any of the primal magic things
06:54 <Avatar> what's a good magical lineage choice
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12:17 <Avatar> spellslingers don't get cantrips
12:18 <Avatar> are you serious
12:25 <Brunius> They also aren't PFS legal
12:37 <Avatar> steven was saying they're the best though
12:50 <Avatar> they are probably illegal because they can't cast detect magic
13:10 <Brunius> They're illegal because they're a way for non-gunslingers to get guns
13:38 <Steven> that and the enhancement bonus of the weapon counts towards to hit and DC to resist
13:53 <Steven> AND makes spells a x3 crit... like enervation.
14:18 <Avatar> man
14:26 <Avatar> I didn't know what I was getting into when I was asking for munchkin advice
14:32 <Avatar> you are the munchkin king aren't you
15:02 <Avatar> mekkis steven may have stolen your title
15:06 <Steven> not really i build faults into my characters to keep them from just being insane.
15:19 <Avatar> ok maybe not
15:28 <Steven> like honey doesnt attack living creatures except evil outsiders
15:28 <Avatar> it's a showdown
15:46 <Avatar> I don't think I'm willing to give up spellbinder
15:53 <Avatar> there's no alternative archetype I like
16:00 <Steven> i told you its illegal in pfs mang.
16:08 <Avatar> spellbinder, not spellslinger
16:14 <Steven> oh the elf one.
16:19 <Avatar> yeah 
16:28 <Avatar> tiefling does look good but I don't want a tiefling regular wizard
16:43 <Steven> yeah its not bad, being able to call up spells is useful, cause it means you wont have to prep certain spells
17:16 <Steven> not having to prep haste is nice.\
17:50 <Steven> i want to have a druid, and then give a maul of the titans to a treant.
18:27 <Steven> have it full round attack and do x6 damage to objects... that seems totaly legit.
18:51 <Avatar> I might lose the transmutation school and go teleport
19:15 <Steven> oh i sunder the barbarians weapon (2d10+15)x6
19:32 <Avatar> how are you doing x6
20:24 <Steven> treants have the ability when doing a full attack against an object to do x2 damage to said object
20:33 <Steven> a maul of the titans allows for a x3 against objects
21:05 <Steven> if nothing else, i will destroy the living hell out of fortresses.
21:19 <Steven> Oh i see you have a lovely Castle... treant heres a maul go destroy it.
21:51 <Steven> you just slap the treant with fire resistance and stoneskin.
22:03 <Steven> watch it go to town.
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32:26 <Avatar> are you sure those stack
33:53 <Steven> untyped bonus, one is racial the other weapon.  I cant find anything that says they dont
38:35 <Avatar> hey this elf does have darkvision
38:45 <Avatar> what's considered 'bright light'
39:03 <Avatar> sunlight?
40:16 <Steven> Elves: all alternate racial traits, except darkvision; all racial subtypes except arctic and dusk elves, are legal for play
40:40 <Avatar> fuck off
41:06 * Steven feels pleased with himself
41:22 <Avatar> bloody additional resources
42:25 <Avatar> jesus I replaced elven immunities for elemental resistance (fire 5)
42:29 <Avatar> surely that isn't a good tradeoff
43:30 <Avatar> with a -2 wis, I'd be looking at -4 to most will saves now
43:53 <Avatar> it's almost like i want to fail my will saves
51:57 <Avatar> this wizard has +8 to initiative
51:58 <Steven> you still have a long way to go till you munchkin anything successfully lol
52:31 <Avatar> that's why I'm doing it
52:37 <Avatar> I am sick of underpowered characters
52:41 <Steven> peace its nap time!
52:46 <Avatar> peace
07:08 <Steven> couldnt sleep
07:23 <Steven> only 4am
07:50 <Wrothmonk> You never truly know the sheer number of rules in a roleplaying game until you attempt to adapt a new system to them.
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30:20 <Avatar> you never truly know someone... until you fight them
35:50 * Falang shakes his head
36:16 <Avatar> sorry falang
36:19 <Avatar> I'm immune to you today
36:50 <Avatar> especially after talking to steven who thinks I am not doing it right
36:57 <Avatar> apparently I can't munchkin even when I'm trying
38:20 <Falang> I'm not sure if an incompetent munchkin is better or worse.
40:22 <Steven> its worse
43:40 <Wrothmonk> Exactly.
43:47 <Avatar> worse than what....?
44:08 <Steven> than a regular munchkin
44:11 <Avatar> we'll see if the character is still broken after I, erm, break it
46:05 <Falang> a regular player :P
51:32 <Mekkis> damn. ended up having a 5 minute arguement with the GM regarding daylight and deeper darkness
54:12 <Falang> *sigh* don't suppose any of you aussies know of any decent job opportunities for a translator and english teacher immigrant wannabe? :)
13:01 <Steven> makin a half elf!
13:04 <Steven> oracle
20:29 <Steven> 10/8/15/12/8/22
21:19 <Steven> make that a 7
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29:33 <Wrothmonk> Evening.
41:15 <Mekkis> !spell polymorph any object
41:16 <diebot> Mekkis, POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT transmutation (polymorph[]) sorcerer/wizard 8 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) one creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level Comp: V, S, M/DF (mercury, gum arabic, and smoke) Duration: see text Save: Fortitude negates (object); see text SR:yes (object)
41:16 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/polymorph_any_object.html
51:07 <Steven> now i gotta find something else to watch.
34:01 <junbug> dddddddddddddddddd n dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
34:12 <junbug>  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz\
34:13 <junbug> <junbug>  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz\
34:13 <junbug> <junbug>  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz  dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzzz dragon ballzzz
55:09 <Falang> !spell blend
55:09 <diebot> Falang, BLEND illusion (glamer[]) alchemist 1, druid 1, magus 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: S Duration: 10 minutes/level Save:  SR:
55:10 <diebot> You draw upon your elven link to the wilderness to change the coloration of yourself and your equipment to match that of your surroundings. This grants you a +4 circumstance bonus on Stealth checks and allows you to make Stealth checks without cover or concealment, but only while you move no more than half your base speed or less. If you move more
55:10 <diebot> than half your base speed on your turn, you gain no benefit from this spell until the start of your next turn. If you make an attack, this spell ends (as invisibility).
55:24 <Falang> Sweet. I'll take that next spell i get.. thank you very much..
55:44 <Falang> oh wait. let me guess. only elves can cast it.
58:48 <Falang> yep. man that's gay.
41:52 <kapow> hey trying to remember something
41:55 <kapow> prestige class
42:00 <kapow> it's either cleric or paladin aligned
42:01 Steven has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
42:12 <kapow> and it makes your paladin or cleric level count as your fighter level
42:15 <kapow> but at half
42:22 <kapow> forget the name of the prestige class
42:28 <kapow> anyone know which one it is?
42:30 <Falang> No, Morning.
43:13 <kapow> could be an archetype
51:41 <kapow> anyone read it before?
52:06 <Falang> I'm sure Steven knows. I think he's sleeping thoguh.
53:00 <Wrothmonk> Damn timezones!
54:05 <Falang> That works.
54:54 <kapow> you get half your levels in that class as fighter levels when qualifying for fighter level feats
55:12 <Wrothmonk> Hey falang, how interested would you be in playing a True Sorcerery adaptation of pathfinder rules?
56:03 <Falang> Quite interested. In fact I suggest nothing but wizards!
56:20 <Falang> okay maybe a fighter or two...
56:30 <Wrothmonk> I've been working on creating such a ruleset :D
59:34 <Falang> as long as you leave out the 'sacrificing 1 spell point permanently' thing
59:49 <Falang> for making magic items. that's gay. it was gay in the 80's and it's gay now.
59:56 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
00:32 <kapow> found it :D
00:39 <Falang> there would be no ubitquitous +1 weapons if a wizard drained his damn life force every time he made one. they can't have it both ways.
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01:02 <Wrothmonk> how about it drains the spell point for a week or something?
01:18 <Falang> it's just more of that 'play balance' crap that's been growing like fungus on roleplaying for decades
01:24 <Falang> yeah, or a month even.
01:40 <Wrothmonk> Month sounds good
02:02 <Wrothmonk> I'll add it to my notes
02:48 * Falang does a jig of joy
02:58 <Wrothmonk> oh wait
03:03 <Wrothmonk> You can spend spell energy as normal to create these items. If you spend 1 point of spell energy permanently, you don’t need to make a Spellcraft check.
03:08 <Falang> play balance likes to ignore the fact that, you know, everything revolves around wizards and magic in roleplaying, and when you nerf them it just makes it all silly..
03:36 <Falang> Oh?  I didn't read the rules for that in True Sorcery, I read it in the Black Company book, must not be the same
03:45 <Wrothmonk> Yeah its different
03:49 <Wrothmonk> A lot different
04:20 <Falang> oh, groovy. i'll read it then. you couldn't fly or teleport in BC either, I figure they change that
04:31 <Wrothmonk> Yes
04:33 <Wrothmonk> yes yes yes
04:36 <Wrothmonk> there is a spell for flying
05:34 <Wrothmonk> hrm I may need to re-think my idea of having spellcasters start out with being first magnitude... I dont want them flying all over the place.
06:03 <Brunius> Pop POP
06:22 <Falang> woah, yeah. first magnitude is pretty strong, that's like 5th level
06:28 * Falang smacks Brunius
06:31 <Wrothmonk> But that ruins the fact that you cant do the equivalent of acid splash being first level
06:39 <Brunius> :(
06:41 <Falang> At least one of us is cool enough to get that.
08:26 <Falang> Wrothmonk: I haven't sat down and worked the numbers, but with spell components I figure you could do plenty of useful things
09:04 <Wrothmonk> I'm looking more of what spell creates this spell in pathfinder
09:08 <Wrothmonk> and what level that spell is
13:04 <Wrothmonk> Hrm...
13:05 <Falang> off to bed. gnight all.
13:09 <Wrothmonk> Maybe your right
21:20 <Wrothmonk> The thing is it doesnt look like you could really do any damage as a spell caster until you get first magnitude.
22:08 <Wrothmonk> oh wait...
22:11 <Wrothmonk> Force
22:12 <Wrothmonk> Duh
28:23 <Wrothmonk> Ok in d&d 3.0, could you have more skill ranks than your level?
28:52 <Wrothmonk> since having 4(4 + int) ranks at first level seems a little excessive if you didnt...
29:28 <Mekkis> yes
29:36 <Mekkis> the max skill ranks was level+3
31:09 <Falang> it was? I was pretty sure it was limited by your HD
31:19 <Mekkis> sorry, HD+3
31:40 <Mekkis> same thing, for characters with class levels who aren't stupid nonworking types of monsterous races
31:44 <Falang> no I meant level/HD.. or did they change that in 3.5?
31:54 <Falang> I'm not sure I ever played any real 3.0
32:03 <Mekkis> no. They changed it in Pathfinder
32:04 <Wrothmonk> I dont happen to have the ruleset for 3.0 on me
32:10 <Wrothmonk> I only have 3.5
32:21 <Mekkis> when they added the +3 bonus to trained class skills
34:03 <Falang> I checked the True20 Adventure Roleplaying book, and yes it's +3 there too. 
34:07 <Hydrazine> the 3.5 3+HD limit and the +3 bonus to class skills are intended to serve the same purpose of making the class skill distinction actually matter.
34:33 <Mekkis> actually, it's made to make the characters traceable and auditable
34:55 <Mekkis> (at least that's what Buhlman said when he was introducing Pathfinder to Australia at GenConOz 2009)
36:26 <Mekkis> trying to work out what levels each skill was taken at
36:55 <Falang> I don't see what would be wrong with having a 'level up' sheet where you track the changes.
37:10 <Mekkis> have you ever seen someone use one?
37:34 <Falang> No, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. :)
37:53 <Mekkis> makes auditing sheets harder
38:20 <Mekkis> Here: audit this sheet. Tell me how long it takes: http://paizo.com/people/DerichioEsterik
38:35 <Wrothmonk> Ok, spell component pouches seem a little OP when you can get an automatic +1 for adding an expendable component...
38:36 <Mekkis> that's a 13th level Pathfinder character.
40:09 <Falang> I *really* don't care to even click on that.
40:35 <Falang> Not my fault PF encourages bad practices in tracking characters
40:44 <Mekkis> ok then
40:48 <Mekkis> audit this character
40:50 <Mekkis> http://www.pfrpg.com.au/viewchar.php5?char=134
40:56 <Mekkis> 3.5e 10th level druid
40:57 <Falang> I'm not auditing any of them
41:01 <Mekkis> should be EASY
41:57 <Falang> hell, as far as I'm concerned Paizo should have put out a free software package to manage and track characters long ago. Instead there are 3rd party companies doing it.
43:07 <Falang> Even better if it was open sourced
44:01 <Mekkis> perhaps because Paizo's development time is more productively used... publishing and selling books? you know, the things they're GOOD at...
44:31 <Falang> hence the open source. I'm sure plenty of nerds would volunteer to help out if they started the project.
44:58 <Mekkis> if it was that simple, someone would have don it.
45:20 <Falang> Well there IS PCGen and several good ones based simply on spreadsheets..
45:22 <Mekkis> Instead, we have PCgen (which is open source) which is a bloated thing that's somewhat incomplete...
45:24 <Falang> Hero Lab, etc.
46:08 <Mekkis> and Herolab, which is also nontransparent and incomplete, can charge upwards of $80 for it, because it's the best there is.
46:09 <Falang> PCGen isn't just PF though. it's also D&D 4e etc.
46:43 <Falang> I think paizo putting their name behind it and advertising it at cons and whatnot would get a lot of support, possibly even donations for the project.
47:05 <Mekkis> I think it would still take more development time and be unprofitable
47:46 <Falang> It doesn't need to be profitable, if it speeds up character gen and management, not to mention GM based functions it could easily do, it would encourage more gaming and show that they're not just about profits.
48:09 <Falang> Instead they're starting to look more like WoTC with the insane $60 prices on some of these books.
48:11 <Mekkis> how would it encourage more gaming
49:15 <Mekkis> I'm not sure if "whiners who can't read a book and build a character following the book's directions and would rather use free software" is a very large and profitable market for a company that generally sells books....
49:28 <Falang> how would it not?  it's pretty difficult to do these games online, we're using a dicebot, irc for chat, skype for video, CA for mapping...
49:38 <Falang> and ascii files for character sheets apparently.
49:44 <Falang> it's a friggin' software juggling act
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01:55 <Falang> we hit it like a brick wall
02:08 <Wrothmonk> I hope no pun intended.
02:24 <Falang> I always intend puns, and when I don't I'm pleasantly surprised ;)
02:42 <Falang> So that's what your focusing on publishing and profits, quality drops.
02:55 <Falang> gives
02:55 <Wrothmonk> Good response :P
03:03 <Hydrazine> I brought up the height difference thing the first time I played it, thought it was silly. Didn't get me far.
03:15 <Mekkis> yes, there are issues in first steps 1
03:39 <Falang> *ahem* easily corrected issues. uncorrected. 
04:08 <Mekkis> they have been corrected
04:15 <Falang> that doesn't show they care. are gamers supposed to appreciate that obvious lack of quality?
04:17 <Mekkis> they haven't been integrated into the mods
04:48 <Falang> they could address that over the water cooler and 5 minutes on a pdf editor and poof.
05:06 <Mekkis> ummm... no.
05:21 <Mekkis> They need to send it to typesetting and get them to work their magic
05:23 <Mekkis> for starters
05:47 <Falang> we're talking about a sentence or two of changes, at maximum, depending on what they change.
05:54 <Mekkis> sure
05:59 <Mekkis> still needs to be retypeset
06:00 <Falang> or just "wall is 5' high" rather than 10'
06:19 <Falang> so what?  I'm crying tears of sympathy for that poor typesetter.
06:28 <Mekkis> I don't remember the wall you're referring to
06:37 <Falang> in the ambush at the end
06:48 <Mekkis> my issue was the dagger/cat 'o nine tails in the Paracountess' room
07:04 <Falang> they climb to the rooftops and supposedly attack you in ways they cannot attack you.
07:14 <Falang> okay so it's fucked up in more than one way, yay. :)
07:48 <Falang> I'm a little puzzled by the paracountess having a secret room with NOTHING in it, it's not even mentioned that it contains things. but it's on the map.
08:08 <Wrothmonk> its a re-used map
08:25 <Wrothmonk> like that inn thats like a dock
08:40 <Falang> so they're lazy.
08:53 <Wrothmonk> yup
08:53 <Hydrazine> Ambush Alley itself gets some good use.
08:57 <Falang> great way to introduce new players
09:00 <Mekkis> there's no mention of a wall
09:15 <Wrothmonk> its on the map
09:18 <Wrothmonk> not mentioned at all
09:26 <Mekkis> I don't see one
09:37 <Mekkis> not on the map in the mod
09:45 <Falang> it's those things on either side of the street where you walk, with roofs and whatnot.
09:58 <Mekkis> they're houses right
10:02 <Mekkis> given that it's an ally?
10:10 <Falang> Steven himself said this was a well known issue
11:22 <Falang> apparently not since there's no mention of it.
11:49 <Mekkis> I generally don't use the Ambush site map when I run it
11:53 <Mekkis> I use City Streets
12:13 <Hydrazine> Why?
12:53 <Mekkis> because I have a City Streets flipmap, and it allows the PCs to make their own way down the alley, rather than being handwaved into an ambush position
13:10 <Mekkis> (the first time I ran it, I used the alley, and TPKed)
13:11 <Falang> you're only helping my point Mekkis
13:49 <Hydrazine> That doesn't sound like a good arguement on Paizo's side.
15:53 <Mekkis> what? I use City Streets because I own the flipmap, rather than using the ambush alley?
16:02 <Mekkis> they're almost the same
17:29 <Hydrazine> You use the other map because it gives the players a better chance at success? Or am I mis-interpreting the handwaving into position and TPK you mentioned?
17:55 <Mekkis> no. I use the other map because if feels more organic
17:59 <Hydrazine> Is the imp's invisibility supposed to be a free action or a standard?
18:06 <Falang> You're not even allowed to change these things I thought, PFS is pretty strict, you follow the written tactics etc.. which in this ambush isn't possible.
18:07 <Mekkis> standard, of course
18:27 <Mekkis> A throng of people blocks the street ahead. A performance
18:27 <Mekkis> art group commandeers the street, drawing graffiti to create
18:27 <Mekkis> a jolly hellscape complete with illusory devils comically
18:27 <Mekkis> dancing around in circles. A few citizens avoiding the crowd
18:27 <Mekkis> slip off-street through a nearby alley, the only egress past
18:27 <Mekkis> the gathering.
18:31 <Wrothmonk> free? its at will
18:47 <Mekkis> at-will just means "no limit to the number of times you can use it per day"
19:02 <Hydrazine> At will refers to times per day.
19:02 <Wrothmonk> Ah
19:02 <Hydrazine> Not the time it takes to do it.
19:16 <Hydrazine> You could say fighters can melee attack at will.
19:29 <Mekkis> So after reading that, you'd then say "so you follow them down the alley"?
19:36 <Hydrazine> but that doesn't make it a free action.
19:37 <Wrothmonk> glad you guys practically coup de graced the guy...
19:38 <Mekkis> rather than letting the players decide which way to go?
20:17 <Wrothmonk> They cast cloudkill to clear a path since it is obstructing their mission for the pathfinder society!
20:22 <Hydrazine> Sure. And if they say they wait until the road clears and go that way?
20:32 <Mekkis> that's fine
20:40 <Falang> they can't.
20:40 <Falang> it's railroaded.
20:45 <Mekkis> they are waiting for a couple of hours
20:53 <Mekkis> then they make their way back to the lodge
20:55 <Falang> In fact I find it extremely irritating that there's so much railroading in some of these adventures.
20:55 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
21:08 <Mekkis> Adril Hestrim gets annoyed at them for taking so long
21:19 <Falang> and there's always time pressure, you're forced into doing things the way they want you to.
21:20 <Wrothmonk> and you skip an entire combat.
21:23 <Mekkis> sure
21:28 <Mekkis> Reward Creative Solutions
21:52 <Mekkis> Guide p35
21:54 <Hydrazine> While I think thats a completely understandable way of doing things, is it running the scenario as written?
22:09 <Wrothmonk> No
22:10 <Wrothmonk> Definitively not.
22:12 <Falang> there are no creative solutions in these 'adventures', there's usually one way to do it. period.
22:44 <Mekkis> Sometimes during the course of a scenario, your players
22:44 <Mekkis> might surprise you with a creative solution to an encounter
22:44 <Mekkis> (or the entire scenario) that you didn’t see coming and that
22:44 <Mekkis> isn’t expressly covered in the scenario. If, for example, your
22:44 <Mekkis> players manage to roleplay their way through a combat and
22:44 <Mekkis> successfully accomplish the goal of that encounter without
22:44 <Mekkis> killing the antagonist, give the PCs the same reward they
22:44 <Mekkis> would have gained had they defeated their opponent in
22:44 <Mekkis> combat.
23:04 <Mekkis> [..;.]
23:10 <Mekkis> Pathfinder Society
23:10 <Mekkis> Organized Play never wants to give the impression that
23:10 <Mekkis> the only way to solve a problem is to kill it—rewarding the
23:10 <Mekkis> creative use of skills and roleplaying not only make Society
23:10 <Mekkis> games more fun for the players, but it also gives the GM a
23:10 <Mekkis> level of flexibility in ensuring players receive the rewards
23:10 <Mekkis> they are due.
24:22 <Wrothmonk> Paizo has failed with Falang and me then.
24:35 <Falang> I'm amazed that somebody would pay $4 for one of those when you could get a whole REAL module for $10 elsewhere. Something the size of Ruins of Adventure, or Keep on the Borderlands.
24:49 <Falang> which will keep you busy for months
25:43 <Mekkis> because it's short. That's a selling point
25:58 <Falang> it's not a selling point. I don't need or want fast food roleplaying.
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26:16 <Falang> Yo, nico
26:19 <niconorsk> Sup
26:20 <Falang> sup
26:22 <Falang> hah
26:48 <Falang> just arguing with Mekkis, care to join in?
26:48 <Wrothmonk> You have entered in the middle of a heated argument of Paizo's ethics and responsibility, what do you do?
26:59 <Falang> (hint: Attack the Darkness)
27:09 <Falang> (or the Gazebo)
27:24 <Wrothmonk> (Hint: attack the grue)
27:24 <niconorsk> I cast Calm Emotions
27:31 <Wrothmonk> xD
27:56 <Falang> The nerds all have emotional issues, and are thus immune to your spell!
28:36 <Hydrazine> No no, the nerds are currently using nerd rage, and have boosted will saves to things like 'being sensible'
28:52 <Wrothmonk> ^
29:05 * Wrothmonk is singing nerd rage in the backround
29:24 <Falang> nerd rage? tell me that's jonathan coulton..
29:24 <Wrothmonk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeAjISBb2U
29:40 <Wrothmonk> Same people that did orphan tears
29:47 <Falang> so I see
31:10 <Wrothmonk> Some of their songs are rather brilliant if you ask me. Not all though
31:10 <Hydrazine> I think, if during any of my FS1 adventures, the imp actually took the whole standard action to get invisible, it would've been much less the nightmare encounter is often was.
31:10 <Falang> hmph, Tom Baker wasn't the best Doctor.
32:12 <Falang> why not be invisible in the first place? it's free after all. prolly be more fun to trash the place that way.
32:50 <Hydrazine> It starts off invisible, yes, but it leaves it to attack eventually.
33:26 <Wrothmonk> I thought it was visible since it didnt notice the players?
33:26 <Falang> that also makes no sense
33:44 <Falang> didn't notice 4 people that just opened a door, the thing is on a rampage trashing shit, it didn't once face in that direction?
34:15 <Falang> that's the first time ever in a PFS adventure something didn't notice the players, ever.
34:38 <Brunius> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCgx8zM3woQ
34:39 <Falang> I expect it would be waiting in ambush and get surprise on us based on every game I've played so far.
34:49 <Wrothmonk> Oh yes, stereotypes
35:21 <Falang> yeah, loved Stereotypes, that was hilarious. 'i love you more than japanese like tentacle porn'
35:24 <Hydrazine> hey Mekkis, is something moves out of the square you occupy, does it provoke?
35:39 <Mekkis> ummm... I'd say so
35:59 <Wrothmonk> My personal favorite is take over the world.
36:06 <Wrothmonk> Cant mess up with binky and the brain references. 
36:25 <Hydrazine> Because the imp would have to occupy your square to attack.
36:25 <Mekkis> it's not my fault that people don't run FS1 properly
36:36 <Falang> anyway, stop changing the subject. this isn't a youtube discussion
36:44 * Wrothmonk shuts his mouth
37:07 <Mekkis> hey Wrothmonk: When you ran First Steps 1, did you run it properly?
37:30 <Wrothmonk> I dont feel like I did since it didnt seem like there would be a TPK.
37:38 <Wrothmonk> at any point
37:48 <Mekkis> ???
37:50 <Falang> fucking barbarian halfings.. sheesh.. 
37:50 <Wrothmonk> I didnt realise the imp was tiny
38:07 <Hydrazine> Or that it would take a standard to get invisible?
38:12 <Wrothmonk> so I messed that up, but probably wouldnt have mattered.
38:23 <Falang> it definitely didn't matter, I nearly killed it right away with one hit
38:24 <Mekkis> the reason I had a TPK was that the halfling charged in, critted the bard dead
38:36 <Mekkis> then the rogue went in, critted the cleric dead
38:43 <Hydrazine> Not because color spray?
38:44 <Falang> Mekkis: he nearly did the same to me
38:44 <Hydrazine> Because that thing is lethal.
38:47 <Mekkis> then the PCs moved up to the sorcerer and attacked him
39:00 <Mekkis> and the sorcerer colour sprayed the other two PCs
39:12 <Hydrazine> Had a feeling it'd be the color spray.
39:18 <Wrothmonk> Same
39:26 <Hydrazine> aka, the 'death beam'
40:12 <Mekkis> death cone
40:24 <Wrothmonk> Death beam is magic missile
40:33 <Mekkis> no
40:34 <Falang> wroth: you like how that system eliminates the whole metamagic system?  it's all built in. no feats.
40:35 <Hydrazine> I thought that was the pewx2 laser.
40:50 <Mekkis> that's the "mildly inconvenience enemy"
41:20 <Wrothmonk> Depends on how many times you can cast it.
41:26 <Hydrazine> Doesn't it do wonders for interrupting opponent spellcasters?
41:48 <Mekkis> it's not BAD at interrupting enemy spellcasters
42:08 <niconorsk> Concentration checks can be made
42:55 <Hydrazine> They can, but a chance at them beating a conc. check is better than just taking the spell.
43:11 <Mekkis> can a tiny opponent 5' into an enemy's square?
43:46 <Hydrazine> Plus it works better the more damage you do.
43:51 <Hydrazine> I believe so, Mekkis
44:42 <Mekkis> I prefer scorching ray sneak attack
46:11 <Hydrazine> Huh.
46:37 <niconorsk> Mekkis: do you have a chronicle sheet for rebel's ransom for me, btw?
46:52 <Mekkis> yes
46:57 <Hydrazine> So the roofs/walls aren't really mentioned in FS1, but without using them, I don't really see how you're supposed to engage the PCs in melee per the tactics.
47:30 <Mekkis> the tactics don't mention roofs or walls
47:48 <Hydrazine> They do mention flanks and gank up.
47:54 <Falang> kinda should don'tcha think?
48:21 <Mekkis> I like it when the scenarios don't mention things
48:23 <Wrothmonk> which are impossible to follow in a 5x5 foot alley 
48:26 <Falang> you can't have 5' walls. not with houses.
48:27 <Mekkis> it means that I can make stuff up
48:37 <Wrothmonk> unless your in the halfling district!
48:44 <Wrothmonk> those guys are short!
48:44 <Hydrazine> Theres either one or two open squares adjacent to the pc starting area.
49:04 <Mekkis> as I said, I use the City Streets instead
49:18 <Hydrazine> So how do you do it, Mekkis? How do they engage the players?
49:23 <Wrothmonk> withought using the city streets?
49:23 <Falang> he uses the captain kirk solution.
49:24 <Falang> cheat.
49:33 <Mekkis> sure, if you call it that
49:47 <Mekkis> Cheat is such a dirty word
49:49 <Wrothmonk> I call it not following the rules
50:01 <Mekkis> I call it "applying creative licence"
50:06 <Falang> ^Like
50:19 <Wrothmonk> I call that bullcrap
50:29 <Mekkis> given that I ran it once with my local VC, and once with another VC, and neither of them complained, I don't see the problem
51:11 <Mekkis> at least I didn't run invisibility as a free action, or have the imp not enter people's squares to attack...
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13:46 <Falang> always the best way to make sure people know the rules
13:54 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
14:04 <Falang> maybe do it with 1st mag, then 2nd mag, etc.
14:22 <Falang> I see what you mean about healing though, that's 1st magnitude..
14:58 <Falang> just have to rest the old fashioned way
15:18 <Falang> or buy potions etc
16:01 <Falang> or priests get a free healing 'domain'
16:12 <Wrothmonk> I was thinking about a system where you can decrease the magnitude if you decrease the DC by so much.
16:51 <Wrothmonk> Or we could do that.
16:53 <Falang> or screw it, it's just how it works. no healing at low levels. consumables or items only.
16:54 <Wrothmonk> DC to*
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17:25 <Falang> or perhaps the spells at what magnitude chart is a little different for divine casters
17:41 <Falang> and healing is at student level
17:55 <Falang> and other things are moved up into 1st, like Force
17:56 <Wrothmonk> That sounds... interesting
18:03 <BoomerET> Yay!!! I got my Steam account back.
18:14 <Falang> Congrats!  what about the account stealing bastiches?
18:36 <Wrothmonk> Perhaps do the same with different types of casters? druids get nature stuff, arcane gets create energy?
18:36 <BoomerET> I think they may have never actually gotten in.
18:46 <Mekkis> ummm... yay
18:49 <BoomerET> Last account access was 58 days ago.
18:56 <Mekkis> so now you can start giving Steam more cash!
19:02 <Falang> I think I might leave create energy where it is, force is good enough to start with offensively
19:08 <Wrothmonk> its non-lethal
19:29 <Falang> so?  knocked out is as good as dead after combat
19:57 <Wrothmonk_> goddamnit
20:00 <Wrothmonk> Fair point
20:01 <Falang> I'd much rather dish out 2d8 nonlethal than 1d8 lethal
20:01 <Wrothmonk> I managed to make a decent spell that should knock out most creatures level one.
20:04 <Wrothmonk_> Die Wrothmonk!
20:39 <Wrothmonk> 2d8 nonlethal for a 5 round cast
20:39 <BoomerET> Anyone play Mouse Guard or Burning Wheel. Wondering if I might like Torchbearer
20:39 <Wrothmonk> >70% sucess rate at max spell skill
20:42 <Falang> 5 round cast?  that's a long time.
20:53 <Wrothmonk> its like dc 26
25:10 <Falang> did you try that as a sleep effect with Enchant?
25:12 <Wrothmonk> Ah didnt think of that
25:12 <Wrothmonk> wait, not 5 rounds
25:12 <Wrothmonk> 2 rounds and a standard action
25:12 <Falang> better, but still.
25:12 <Wrothmonk> 5 standard actions, where 2 standard actions = a full round
25:12 <Wrothmonk> let me do some math quick and I'll see if i can get better with enchant
25:12 <Wrothmonk> holy shi
25:12 <Wrothmonk> I think you may be able to pull a CDG
25:12 <Wrothmonk> leme do the math
27:19 <Falang> come to think of it, this system tends towards 'converting lethal damage to nonlethal damage', not outright healing.
27:37 <Falang> which is rather logical
27:40 <Wrothmonk> Yes, you can easily pull a 2 round sleep and do a CDG
27:48 <Wrothmonk> provided nobody slaps them awake
28:33 <Wrothmonk> wait...
28:41 <Wrothmonk> hrm, full round action
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02:06 <Mekkis> anyone here read Off To Be The Wizard?
03:06 <Falang> nope..
03:24 <Mekkis> good concept, plot could use some work :S
04:51 <Falang> scott meyer?
05:59 <Mekkis> JA
06:33 <Falang> forgot the existential shock or something?
06:47 <Mekkis> So, today a doctor told me to "Go to Hungry Jack's and ask for the fattiest burger the have. Then eat two of them…
09:04 <Mekkis> no, I can't believe that a bunch of programmers who made a "shell" like that would make such an... interesting... UI
21:10 <Falang> I'll snag it and give it a read..
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26:31 <Brunius> Got me a sweet medical certificate
26:56 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
27:21 <Falang> finally found out what's wrong with ya?
27:22 Wrothmonk has quit (Connection closed)
27:24 <Falang> Wroth: kinda past yer bedtime ain't it?
35:30 <Mekkis> Brunius, does it tell you to go to Hungry Jacks and eat two of their fattiest burgers?
36:22 <Brunius> It tells my teacher that (me with a slightly misspelled name) is unfit for work from 9/5/13 to 9/5/13
36:47 <Mekkis> how unfit?
37:01 <Mekkis> you're suffering from "A medical condition"?
37:18 <Brunius> "In my professional opinion is"
38:01 <Mekkis> "In my professional opinion, Branius is suffering from A MEDICAL CONDITION and is unfit for work from....
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28:24 <Steven> they were like, well he only DDoor'd out, and i can teleport to anywhere within like 1k miles  So we can get there
28:26 <Mekkis> Steven, what was your reasoning?
28:31 <Steven> and i was like, no, you cant.  I am sorry.
28:31 <Falang> why not?  that's a pretty classic use of scrying and teleportation.
28:56 <Steven> the dude ddoored to his planar bound friend, and then plane shifted to another plane.
29:12 <Mekkis> Doesn't scrying work across planes?
29:28 <Steven> it does work across planes, with a +5 bonus
29:37 <Steven> they successfully cast scry, and the dude noticed it.
30:01 <Mekkis> mmmm
30:04 <Mekkis> and?
30:10 <Steven> so the guy rolled a 17+5+13 to notice the scry.
30:34 <Steven> and it told them he was in a room sitting on a bench.
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30:43 <Mekkis> yep... and?
31:35 <Steven> they then tried to teleport, which i said did not work
31:59 <Mekkis> so, do 1d10 points of damage, then roll 1d20+80 to see what happens
32:07 <Mekkis> eventually they'll arrive in a room with a bench
32:20 <Steven> he only had one casting.
32:23 <Mekkis> Pretty sure that comes under "false destination" right?
32:35 <Steven> they didnt like that it didnt work
32:38 <Steven> and went and got walter
33:24 <Falang> well that all sounds pretty logical.
33:53 <Mekkis> why didn't you treat it as a false destination?
34:12 <Steven> eventually andrew one of the people super upset at the fact it didnt work and he didnt get his boon, was like whats your reasoning for it not working.  Which is when i explained the actions the guy took.
34:44 <Steven> Ddoor out, then planar shift to positive energy plane to heal up then to a random 'safe' plane
35:10 <Mekkis> was this a PFS scenario I've played?
35:10 <Steven> and walter was like, yup that works you guys dont get the boon.
35:15 <Steven> I dont know.
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40:55 <Falang> pretty high level if the guy is doing multiple plane shifts
48:53 <Steven> 7-11 game.
49:05 <Steven> at that level they should be tricks a plenty
08:37 <Wrothmonk> You never truly know the sheer number of rules in a roleplaying game until you attempt to adapt a new system to them.
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19:40 <Avatar> I don't get that scry/teleport situation
19:50 <Avatar> why doesn't it work
19:58 <Mekkis> teleport doesn't work across planes
20:12 <Avatar> and scry does
20:15 <Avatar> okay
20:31 <Avatar> I don't know scry that well, do you know if you're seeing someone in another plane or no?
21:47 <Mekkis> nope
24:42 <Steven> you see 10ft around a person
24:50 <Steven> and they get a will save to notice you scrying on them
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27:10 <Avatar> how do they 'notice'
27:20 <Avatar> there's nothing there to see is there
30:23 <Steven> oh wait im thinking of another spell
31:07 <Avatar> you never truly know someone... until you fight them
32:32 <Steven> yeah the whole thing was stupid.  they cast the spell i made a will save told them he succeeded, and then they were like oh well we have his blood and are familiar with him blah blah blah and i was like okay you scryed him congrats
32:32 <Steven> and they were like okay we teleport to him
32:52 dicebot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
33:01 ChanOP gives channel half-operator status to dicebot
33:10 <Steven> and i was like sorry you cant teleport to him. and they just threw a fit and went and got walter, i filled out chronicle sheets
34:04 <Mekkis> Ballig might exist
37:03 <Steven> hmmmm.... 
37:37 <Steven> cant decide which game to play
41:36 Falang ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
41:42 <Falang> *sigh*
41:53 <Falang> this idiot network banning me again. wtf.
41:59 <Avatar> go to #asd and tell them
42:04 <Avatar> don't wait until you get zlined this time
42:12 <Falang> I don't even know why it happened that time
42:20 <Avatar> and now it's happening again
42:31 <Falang> I can just reconnect my router, I've got a pretty big ip pool it seems.
42:51 <Avatar> it's always better to stop the banner than it is to evade their bans
44:27 <Wrothmonk> Exactly.
45:03 <Falang> *sigh*
45:06 <Falang> fine, had to finish up my show.
49:01 <Falang> oh they apparently bothered to document why this time, just saw it in my status log. 
49:02 <Falang> [Z-Lined: Banned via DNSBL: TOR Exit Nodes are banned due to frequent abuse (171.4.72.107) - email [email protected] for help]
49:52 <Falang> and nobody is even responding
49:55 <Falang> nice.
50:09 <Falang> they sure had the time to ban me 20 minutes ago
51:53 <Falang> I mean seriously, this is one of the biggest ISPs in .th, it sucks they don't know how to do reverse DNS and all that, but.. you can't tell a thai how to do anything properly. they get offended.
52:06 <Falang> VERY offended.
52:50 <Steven> so thats why that thai girl got angry...
53:01 <Steven> racially angry people...
53:03 <Steven> i like it!
53:23 <Falang> no, it's just... I dunno. hard to explain or understand. they're strange.
53:52 <Falang> something to do with saving face and all that asian honor crap. not that they're honorable, they're not, they just seem to like the idea that they are.
54:11 <Steven> i was being a dork.
54:18 <Steven> i dont actually think they are that way.
54:27 <Falang> Oh, well I knew the dork part already
54:59 <Falang> Though, they WILL run people out of town with pitchforks and torches and shit. For telling them not to burn garbage in their back yards because it causes pollution.
55:55 <Falang> you can't tell them they're wrong, you can't correct them when they obivously are, you can't even point out ot them that they're lying or something when everybody in the room knows it.
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06:12 Falang ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
06:17 <Falang> goddamnit
06:52 <Falang> always happens when I'm downloading hard.. 
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22:34 <Steven> methinks its time to play some sim city
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30:09 <Steven> this old woman rocks
30:20 <Wrothmonk> Evening.
30:20 <Steven> 105 years old, says bacon is the key to long life.
30:25 <Falang> hah
30:30 <Falang> Clearly onto something
30:31 <Steven> i agree with her!
31:03 <Steven> scientific data is irrelevant when compaired to bacon
33:33 <Steven> love sim city updating.
33:41 <Falang> heh
33:45 <Falang> good luck with that.
33:48 <Steven> Oh you updated... well since you updated we need to verify your copy is legal.
33:55 <Falang> speaking of, I was gonna try out sc4
34:25 <Falang> ...and sooooo many other games in my backlog
34:26 <Steven> um... i had to log into orgin to even start the program.
34:43 <Falang> man that's lame
34:53 <Steven> so fucking lame.
39:03 <Steven> now its saying my password isnt correct.
39:07 <Steven> come the fuck on!
41:36 <Falang> haha. bet you won't buy an EA game again any time soon
42:13 <Avatar> why did you buy it
42:14 <Steven> probably not on my PC
42:17 <Avatar> didn't you hear about all its problems
42:27 <Steven> I didnt buy it, my brother got a copy of it for being a beta tester.
42:31 <Falang> yeah seriously, I heard it was a disaster from day 1
42:32 <Falang> ah
42:37 <Avatar> well at least you didn't pay $$
42:47 <Steven> then they gave him a free game because it was shit.
42:54 <Avatar> haha yeah
42:54 <Mekkis> SC4?
42:54 <Steven> so, he gave them to me
43:08 <Steven> because he knows i love the dead space series, and sim city
43:11 <Falang> no the new SC, sc4 is several years old
43:30 <Mekkis> what's SC?
43:41 <Steven> star craft
43:53 <Mekkis> they're up to 4
43:58 <Mekkis> I thought they were slowrolling 2
44:10 <Steven> it depends
44:18 <Steven> do we want to count an expansion as a new game
44:41 <Steven> because brood war came with just as many missions as the first game
44:47 <Mekkis> I'm all with using the company's method of counting - unless they start doing stupid things
44:52 <Mekkis> (see: D&D NEXT)
45:09 <Steven> and then we had the sc2, followed by heart of the swarm
45:24 <Steven> all of which have added the same amount of missions as the first stand alone Starcraft game.
46:16 <Steven> anyways, amongst gamers SC is starcraft.
46:27 <Mekkis> or simcity
46:41 <Steven> no... not really.
48:05 <Steven> so, rather than dealing with orgin right now, im going to go play a different game
49:58 <Steven> Game Dev Tycoon
50:04 <Steven> the real version
51:48 <Steven> oh man, i can take it out of fullscreen... fuck yeah.
54:55 <Steven> so...
54:59 <Steven> should it be done?
55:04 <Steven> Action/Simulation game
55:20 <Steven> setting is Prison.
55:24 <Steven> bwahahahahahaha
55:47 <Falang> oooh boy
55:58 <Falang> Prison Rape Tycoon
59:21 <Steven> darn.... my game only got a 5.75
59:32 <Steven> guess they dont like prison action simulation
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23:11 <Steven> YES! face smash 2000 is a hit!
23:37 <Avatar> send me your copy
24:27 <Steven> turns out, my company Dickfingers is leading the market in action rpgs
27:00 <Steven> my copy of game dev tycoon?
27:25 <Steven> why would i do that when the game is so damned cheap?
33:00 * dicebot removes ban on hairywogDino!*@*
49:40 <Mekkis> why don't you raise the price?
51:22 <Steven> well, im up ti 16 million on the game, think im going to take abreak.
51:31 <Steven> gonna go chop some wood for the morning incase the room mates get cold.
51:34 <Mekkis> that's pretty low
58:00 <Steven> i have 4 employees.
58:26 <Steven> i'd say 16mil is pretty good for a company with 6employees
58:30 <Steven> sorry 5 employees
58:36 <Steven> including myself
00:06 <Mekkis> hmmm
00:18 <Mekkis> 16 million profit?
00:22 <Mekkis> what year?
00:40 <Steven> 16million on hand.
00:50 <Steven> i dunno the year, i closed the progam
04:16 <Brunius> Is that 16 million cash on hand, or 16 million net worth?
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07:07 mib_3sbzv3 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
07:08 <Brunius> HELLO
07:13 <Brunius> GOODBYE
08:33 <Steven> 16million cash 
17:47 <Mekkis> hmmm
17:53 <Mekkis> meaning that you still need to pay
17:55 <Steven> jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze internet bein so slow
18:01 <Mekkis> hey
18:05 <Mekkis> don't blame the syrians
18:21 <Steven> i'll blame who i want
18:41 <Mekkis> how much would it cost to ship a battery to Australia from the States, Steven?
19:09 <Steven> i dunno, go look it up
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24:50 <Brunius> My guess goes for between 15 and 30 dollars
25:01 <Brunius> although that goes out the window if it's especially heavy
25:06 <Mekkis> seems about right
25:23 <Mekkis> hey Hydrazine? Would you ship a battery from the States to Australia for me?
25:52 <Brunius> Uh, it's far more for the reverse
26:01 <Mekkis> ?
26:51 <Brunius> I have no idea what I'm saying here
27:41 <Mekkis> you're suffering from A MEDICAL CONDITION. I'll forgive you
28:14 <Brunius> Is the caps really necessary
28:24 <Mekkis> you decide!
40:01 <Avatar> it may be warranted in this instance
43:17 <Falang> No, Morning.
53:03 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
53:09 <Steven> there we go, finished.
53:14 <Steven> with getting internet fixed
53:47 <Wrothmonk> Damn timezones!
54:52 <Falang> That works.
55:59 <Wrothmonk> Hey falang, how interested would you be in playing a True Sorcerery adaptation of pathfinder rules?
56:50 <Falang> Quite interested. In fact I suggest nothing but wizards!
57:07 <Falang> okay maybe a fighter or two...
57:17 <Wrothmonk> I've been working on creating such a ruleset :D
58:58 <Steven> time to watch some cartoons...
59:45 <Steven> whatcha feeling, s-cry-ed? DBZ? suggestions
00:21 <Falang> as long as you leave out the 'sacrificing 1 spell point permanently' thing
00:36 <Falang> for making magic items. that's gay. it was gay in the 80's and it's gay now.
00:43 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
01:26 <Falang> there would be no ubitquitous +1 weapons if a wizard drained his damn life force every time he made one. they can't have it both ways.
01:49 <Wrothmonk> how about it drains the spell point for a week or something?
02:05 <Falang> it's just more of that 'play balance' crap that's been growing like fungus on roleplaying for decades
02:10 <Steven> im thinkin scryed
02:11 <Falang> yeah, or a month even.
02:27 <Wrothmonk> Month sounds good
02:49 <Wrothmonk> I'll add it to my notes
03:29 <Mekkis> but they made their will save and are on another plane!
03:45 <Wrothmonk> oh wait
03:50 <Wrothmonk> You can spend spell energy as normal to create these items. If you spend 1 point of spell energy permanently, you don’t need to make a Spellcraft check.
03:55 <Falang> play balance likes to ignore the fact that, you know, everything revolves around wizards and magic in roleplaying, and when you nerf them it just makes it all silly..
04:23 <Falang> Oh?  I didn't read the rules for that in True Sorcery, I read it in the Black Company book, must not be the same
04:32 <Wrothmonk> Yeah its different
04:36 <Wrothmonk> A lot different
05:07 <Falang> oh, groovy. i'll read it then. you couldn't fly or teleport in BC either, I figure they change that
05:18 <Wrothmonk> Yes
05:20 <Wrothmonk> yes yes yes
05:23 <Wrothmonk> there is a spell for flying
06:21 <Wrothmonk> hrm I may need to re-think my idea of having spellcasters start out with being first magnitude... I dont want them flying all over the place.
06:50 <Brunius> Pop POP
07:09 <Falang> woah, yeah. first magnitude is pretty strong, that's like 5th level
07:15 * Falang smacks Brunius
07:18 <Wrothmonk> But that ruins the fact that you cant do the equivalent of acid splash being first level
07:26 <Brunius> :(
07:28 <Falang> At least one of us is cool enough to get that.
08:23 <Steven> indeed
08:49 <Mekkis> when they teleported, you should have rolled the misfire
09:04 <Mekkis> then dumped them in someone's sitting room in Korvosa
09:13 <Falang> Wrothmonk: I haven't sat down and worked the numbers, but with spell components I figure you could do plenty of useful things
09:51 <Wrothmonk> I'm looking more of what spell creates this spell in pathfinder
09:55 <Wrothmonk> and what level that spell is
11:32 * Steven shrugs
13:51 <Wrothmonk> Hrm...
13:56 <Wrothmonk> Maybe your right
22:07 <Wrothmonk> The thing is it doesnt look like you could really do any damage as a spell caster until you get first magnitude.
22:55 <Wrothmonk> oh wait...
22:58 <Wrothmonk> Force
22:59 <Wrothmonk> Duh
29:10 <Wrothmonk> Ok in d&d 3.0, could you have more skill ranks than your level?
29:39 <Wrothmonk> since having 4(4 + int) ranks at first level seems a little excessive if you didnt...
30:15 <Mekkis> yes
30:23 <Mekkis> the max skill ranks was level+3
31:56 <Falang> it was? I was pretty sure it was limited by your HD
32:07 <Mekkis> sorry, HD+3
32:27 <Mekkis> same thing, for characters with class levels who aren't stupid nonworking types of monsterous races
32:31 <Falang> no I meant level/HD.. or did they change that in 3.5?
32:41 <Falang> I'm not sure I ever played any real 3.0
32:51 <Mekkis> no. They changed it in Pathfinder
32:51 <Wrothmonk> I dont happen to have the ruleset for 3.0 on me
32:57 <Wrothmonk> I only have 3.5
33:08 <Mekkis> when they added the +3 bonus to trained class skills
33:21 <Mekkis> Steven, would you ship a battery from the states to Australia if I sent you the required $$s?
34:50 <Falang> I checked the True20 Adventure Roleplaying book, and yes it's +3 there too. 
34:54 <Hydrazine> the 3.5 3+HD limit and the +3 bonus to class skills are intended to serve the same purpose of making the class skill distinction actually matter.
35:21 <Mekkis> actually, it's made to make the characters traceable and auditable
35:43 <Mekkis> (at least that's what Buhlman said when he was introducing Pathfinder to Australia at GenConOz 2009)
37:13 <Mekkis> trying to work out what levels each skill was taken at
37:43 <Falang> I don't see what would be wrong with having a 'level up' sheet where you track the changes.
37:58 <Mekkis> have you ever seen someone use one?
38:21 <Falang> No, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. :)
38:36 niconorsk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
38:40 <Mekkis> makes auditing sheets harder
39:08 <Mekkis> Here: audit this sheet. Tell me how long it takes: http://paizo.com/people/DerichioEsterik
39:22 <Wrothmonk> Ok, spell component pouches seem a little OP when you can get an automatic +1 for adding an expendable component...
39:24 <Mekkis> that's a 13th level Pathfinder character.
40:56 <Falang> I *really* don't care to even click on that.
41:22 <Falang> Not my fault PF encourages bad practices in tracking characters
41:32 <Mekkis> ok then
41:36 <Mekkis> audit this character
41:38 <Mekkis> http://www.pfrpg.com.au/viewchar.php5?char=134
41:43 <Mekkis> 3.5e 10th level druid
41:44 <Falang> I'm not auditing any of them
41:48 <Mekkis> should be EASY
42:44 <Falang> hell, as far as I'm concerned Paizo should have put out a free software package to manage and track characters long ago. Instead there are 3rd party companies doing it.
43:54 <Falang> Even better if it was open sourced
44:48 <Mekkis> perhaps because Paizo's development time is more productively used... publishing and selling books? you know, the things they're GOOD at...
45:18 <Falang> hence the open source. I'm sure plenty of nerds would volunteer to help out if they started the project.
45:46 <Mekkis> if it was that simple, someone would have don it.
46:07 <Falang> Well there IS PCGen and several good ones based simply on spreadsheets..
46:10 <Mekkis> Instead, we have PCgen (which is open source) which is a bloated thing that's somewhat incomplete...
46:11 <Falang> Hero Lab, etc.
46:55 <Mekkis> and Herolab, which is also nontransparent and incomplete, can charge upwards of $80 for it, because it's the best there is.
46:57 <Falang> PCGen isn't just PF though. it's also D&D 4e etc.
47:30 <Falang> I think paizo putting their name behind it and advertising it at cons and whatnot would get a lot of support, possibly even donations for the project.
47:52 <Mekkis> I think it would still take more development time and be unprofitable
48:32 <Steven> i dont even know how much that would cost man
48:33 <Falang> It doesn't need to be profitable, if it speeds up character gen and management, not to mention GM based functions it could easily do, it would encourage more gaming and show that they're not just about profits.
48:48 <Steven> why dont you just buy one from new egg, i'd be willing to bet its roughly the same price
48:56 <Falang> Instead they're starting to look more like WoTC with the insane $60 prices on some of these books.
48:59 <Mekkis> how would it encourage more gaming
50:02 <Mekkis> I'm not sure if "whiners who can't read a book and build a character following the book's directions and would rather use free software" is a very large and profitable market for a company that generally sells books....
50:15 <Falang> how would it not?  it's pretty difficult to do these games online, we're using a dicebot, irc for chat, skype for video, CA for mapping...
50:25 <Falang> and ascii files for character sheets apparently.
50:32 <Falang> it's a friggin' software juggling act
53:09 <Falang> It shows the community that you value them by giving something back to them, not just that you're making and selling new books. The same way GoG.com has made sales and a user base that loves them, they give away free games when they can, they do the right thing by their users, not just money grubbing, and they're hugely successful.
54:16 <Falang> Instead of working on new books for profits they might.. oh I dunno, fix their fucking stealth system?
54:56 <Falang> or at least clarify these poorly phrased rules
55:36 <Falang> is spellcasting loud or not? it says "must be ABLE to speak in a loud voice".
56:10 <Falang> it's almost negligent to not include some rules or DCs for hearing someone cast a spell with a perception check
56:18 <Falang> since it happens so damn often
56:40 <Falang> But hey, they got profits to make right?
57:40 <Falang> they're busy cranking out poorly written adventures every month for the PFS cash cow.
57:59 <Falang> shit that doesn't even make sense at times as Wrothmonk discovered in the last game
59:59 <Falang> and that's in FIRST STEPS, they give it away free to bring in new players! has it been eratta'd? corrected in the downlods?  prolly not.
00:37 <Wrothmonk> I downloaded it just before I ran it.
00:41 <Wrothmonk> so no.
01:09 <Falang> and they were supposed to attack with melee weapons from 10' above right? with no appropriate melee weapons that could reach that distance?
01:18 <Wrothmonk> Correct
01:35 <Wrothmonk> unless you are in the halfling part of the district. 
01:44 <Wrothmonk> Mort just said they were 5 ft walls
02:17 <Wrothmonk> Which is all it took to get things moving smoothly. 
02:28 <Falang> how fucking stupid is that?  The first playtesting group or two should have noticed that easily.
21:31 <Falang> In fact I find it extremely irritating that there's so much railroading in some of these adventures.
21:38 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
21:42 <Mekkis> they are waiting for a couple of hours
21:43 <Mekkis> then they make their way back to the lodge
21:55 <Mekkis> Adril Hestrim gets annoyed at them for taking so long
22:05 <Falang> and there's always time pressure, you're forced into doing things the way they want you to.
22:07 <Wrothmonk> and you skip an entire combat.
22:10 <Mekkis> sure
22:22 <Mekkis> Reward Creative Solutions
22:40 <Mekkis> Guide p35
22:41 <Hydrazine> While I think thats a completely understandable way of doing things, is it running the scenario as written?
22:51 <Wrothmonk> No
22:56 <Wrothmonk> Definitively not.
22:59 <Falang> there are no creative solutions in these 'adventures', there's usually one way to do it. period.
24:26 <Mekkis> Sometimes during the course of a scenario, your players
24:26 <Mekkis> might surprise you with a creative solution to an encounter
24:26 <Mekkis> (or the entire scenario) that you didn’t see coming and that
24:26 <Mekkis> isn’t expressly covered in the scenario. If, for example, your
24:26 <Mekkis> players manage to roleplay their way through a combat and
24:26 <Mekkis> successfully accomplish the goal of that encounter without
24:26 <Mekkis> killing the antagonist, give the PCs the same reward they
24:26 <Mekkis> would have gained had they defeated their opponent in
24:26 <Mekkis> combat.
24:26 <Mekkis> [..;.]
24:26 <Mekkis> Pathfinder Society
24:26 <Mekkis> Organized Play never wants to give the impression that
24:26 <Mekkis> the only way to solve a problem is to kill it—rewarding the
24:26 <Mekkis> creative use of skills and roleplaying not only make Society
24:26 <Mekkis> games more fun for the players, but it also gives the GM a
24:26 <Mekkis> level of flexibility in ensuring players receive the rewards
24:26 <Mekkis> they are due.
25:06 <Wrothmonk> Paizo has failed with Falang and me then.
25:22 <Falang> I'm amazed that somebody would pay $4 for one of those when you could get a whole REAL module for $10 elsewhere. Something the size of Ruins of Adventure, or Keep on the Borderlands.
25:36 <Falang> which will keep you busy for months
26:31 <Mekkis> because it's short. That's a selling point
26:44 <Falang> it's not a selling point. I don't need or want fast food roleplaying.
27:03 <Falang> Yo, nico
27:06 <niconorsk> Sup
27:07 <Falang> sup
27:09 <Falang> hah
27:25 <Falang> just arguing with Mekkis, care to join in?
27:32 <Wrothmonk> You have entered in the middle of a heated argument of Paizo's ethics and responsibility, what do you do?
27:46 <Falang> (hint: Attack the Darkness)
27:54 <Falang> (or the Gazebo)
28:03 <Wrothmonk> (Hint: attack the grue)
28:09 <niconorsk> I cast Calm Emotions
28:18 <Wrothmonk> xD
28:43 <Falang> The nerds all have emotional issues, and are thus immune to your spell!
29:23 <Hydrazine> No no, the nerds are currently using nerd rage, and have boosted will saves to things like 'being sensible'
29:39 <Wrothmonk> ^
29:52 * Wrothmonk is singing nerd rage in the backround
30:08 <Falang> nerd rage? tell me that's jonathan coulton..
30:10 <Wrothmonk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBeAjISBb2U
30:26 <Wrothmonk> Same people that did orphan tears
30:34 <Falang> so I see
31:19 <Wrothmonk> Some of their songs are rather brilliant if you ask me. Not all though
31:22 <Hydrazine> I think, if during any of my FS1 adventures, the imp actually took the whole standard action to get invisible, it would've been much less the nightmare encounter is often was.
31:35 <Falang> hmph, Tom Baker wasn't the best Doctor.
32:57 <Falang> why not be invisible in the first place? it's free after all. prolly be more fun to trash the place that way.
33:37 <Hydrazine> It starts off invisible, yes, but it leaves it to attack eventually.
33:53 <Wrothmonk> I thought it was visible since it didnt notice the players?
34:09 <Falang> that also makes no sense
34:31 <Falang> didn't notice 4 people that just opened a door, the thing is on a rampage trashing shit, it didn't once face in that direction?
35:02 <Falang> that's the first time ever in a PFS adventure something didn't notice the players, ever.
35:24 <Brunius> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCgx8zM3woQ
35:26 <Falang> I expect it would be waiting in ambush and get surprise on us based on every game I've played so far.
35:36 <Wrothmonk> Oh yes, stereotypes
36:05 <Falang> yeah, loved Stereotypes, that was hilarious. 'i love you more than japanese like tentacle porn'
36:11 <Hydrazine> hey Mekkis, is something moves out of the square you occupy, does it provoke?
36:27 <Mekkis> ummm... I'd say so
36:43 <Wrothmonk> My personal favorite is take over the world.
36:53 <Wrothmonk> Cant mess up with binky and the brain references. 
37:12 <Hydrazine> Because the imp would have to occupy your square to attack.
37:12 <Mekkis> it's not my fault that people don't run FS1 properly
37:16 <Falang> anyway, stop changing the subject. this isn't a youtube discussion
37:30 * Wrothmonk shuts his mouth
37:55 <Mekkis> hey Wrothmonk: When you ran First Steps 1, did you run it properly?
38:17 <Wrothmonk> I dont feel like I did since it didnt seem like there would be a TPK.
38:24 <Wrothmonk> at any point
38:35 <Mekkis> ???
38:37 <Falang> fucking barbarian halfings.. sheesh.. 
38:37 <Wrothmonk> I didnt realise the imp was tiny
38:54 <Hydrazine> Or that it would take a standard to get invisible?
38:58 <Wrothmonk> so I messed that up, but probably wouldnt have mattered.
39:09 <Falang> it definitely didn't matter, I nearly killed it right away with one hit
39:12 <Mekkis> the reason I had a TPK was that the halfling charged in, critted the bard dead
39:23 <Hydrazine> Not because color spray?
39:23 <Falang> Mekkis: he nearly did the same to me
39:30 <Hydrazine> Because that thing is lethal.
39:32 <Mekkis> then the rogue went in, critted the cleric dead
39:34 <Mekkis> then the PCs moved up to the sorcerer and attacked him
39:48 <Mekkis> and the sorcerer colour sprayed the other two PCs
39:58 <Hydrazine> Had a feeling it'd be the color spray.
40:05 <Wrothmonk> Same
40:13 <Hydrazine> aka, the 'death beam'
41:00 <Mekkis> death cone
41:11 <Wrothmonk> Death beam is magic missile
41:19 <Falang> wroth: you like how that system eliminates the whole metamagic system?  it's all built in. no feats.
41:21 <Mekkis> no
41:22 <Hydrazine> I thought that was the pewx2 laser.
41:37 <Mekkis> that's the "mildly inconvenience enemy"
42:05 <Wrothmonk> Depends on how many times you can cast it.
42:13 <Hydrazine> Doesn't it do wonders for interrupting opponent spellcasters?
42:36 <Mekkis> it's not BAD at interrupting enemy spellcasters
42:53 <niconorsk> Concentration checks can be made
43:42 <Hydrazine> They can, but a chance at them beating a conc. check is better than just taking the spell.
43:59 <Mekkis> can a tiny opponent 5' into an enemy's square?
44:32 <Hydrazine> Plus it works better the more damage you do.
44:38 <Hydrazine> I believe so, Mekkis
45:34 <Mekkis> I prefer scorching ray sneak attack
46:58 <Hydrazine> Huh.
47:23 <niconorsk> Mekkis: do you have a chronicle sheet for rebel's ransom for me, btw?
47:32 <Hydrazine> So the roofs/walls aren't really mentioned in FS1, but without using them, I don't really see how you're supposed to engage the PCs in melee per the tactics.
47:44 <Mekkis> yes
48:18 <Mekkis> the tactics don't mention roofs or walls
48:35 <Hydrazine> They do mention flanks and gank up.
48:41 <Falang> kinda should don'tcha think?
49:09 <Mekkis> I like it when the scenarios don't mention things
49:10 <Wrothmonk> which are impossible to follow in a 5x5 foot alley 
49:11 <Falang> you can't have 5' walls. not with houses.
49:14 <Mekkis> it means that I can make stuff up
49:24 <Wrothmonk> unless your in the halfling district!
49:31 <Wrothmonk> those guys are short!
49:31 <Hydrazine> Theres either one or two open squares adjacent to the pc starting area.
49:46 <Hydrazine> So how do you do it, Mekkis? How do they engage the players?
49:52 <Mekkis> as I said, I use the City Streets instead
50:04 <Wrothmonk> withought using the city streets?
50:07 <Falang> he uses the captain kirk solution.
50:10 <Falang> cheat.
50:21 <Mekkis> sure, if you call it that
50:35 <Mekkis> Cheat is such a dirty word
50:36 <Wrothmonk> I call it not following the rules
50:45 <Falang> ^Like
50:53 <Mekkis> I call it "applying creative licence"
51:05 <Wrothmonk> I call that bullcrap
51:16 <Mekkis> given that I ran it once with my local VC, and once with another VC, and neither of them complained, I don't see the problem
51:46 <Mekkis> Steven, I looked it up
51:51 <Mekkis> it's about $US23.50
52:02 <Mekkis> at least I didn't run invisibility as a free action, or have the imp not enter people's squares to attack...
52:13 <Mekkis> the battery is a battery for a 21 year old printer
52:57 <Wrothmonk> ok I think its time to stop
53:03 * Falang gives Wrothmonk some burn cream
53:27 <Wrothmonk> We have been arguing over the same scenario for just over an hour.
53:38 * Falang writes this down as a perfect example of 'more money than sense'.
53:54 <Mekkis> how so?
54:13 <Falang> so you're saying you want to argue over a different scenario?
54:20 <Wrothmonk> Yes?
54:35 <Wrothmonk> or perhaps argue over how to apply True Sorcery to pathfinder?
54:37 <Falang> Just messin' with ya. Though I must say I can't see how you'd get batteries that are still good for that thing, sitting on a shelf for 20 years?
55:05 <Falang> looked like it should fit in there fine, but what about the whole 'consumable' issue?
55:15 <Wrothmonk> Which one?
55:18 <Mekkis> Nickel Cadmium batteries are very stable
55:23 <Falang> CLW, potions, etc
55:31 <Falang> or I should say the "consumable mentality"
55:38 <Falang> encouraged by PFS
56:13 <Falang> back in the old days we'd just rest in the dungeon if we got too battered up, we didn't blow wands and potions left and right
57:38 <Wrothmonk> Actually I'm having difficulties over the whole 1 spell at level 1 thing.
58:04 <Falang> I always had trouble with that, but at least in this system that spell stretches a long way
58:33 <Falang> say you picked 'create energy: fire'
58:34 <Brunius> People still rest in the dungeon
58:37 <Wrothmonk> I'd rather not have 3 wizards all having jsut force as their first talent.
58:39 <Brunius> But it doesn't heal that much
58:51 <Falang> that's burning hands, fireball, scorching ray, spark, light, etc
58:53 <Wrothmonk> You cant, create energy is a first magnitude spell
59:03 <Falang> oh. 
59:04 <Wrothmonk> also its one per energy type
59:10 <Falang> what's zero magnitude allow then?
59:21 <Wrothmonk> Force
59:24 <Falang> I know the 1 per energy type, thats why i said fire
59:34 <Falang> what ELSE does it allow
59:37 <Wrothmonk> Force is the closest you can get for damage
59:39 <Falang> you're thinking evocation
00:00 <Falang> sleep and color spray are a lot more useful than magic missile
01:27 <Wrothmonk> Afflict, Beast lore, Charm, Enchant, Figment, Foresee, Language lore, Light lore, Protection, Sense, Sound lore, Spirit lore, Summon, Dispel, Force, Lock, Prophecy
01:43 <Wrothmonk> also its not zero magnitude, its Student of Magic or Dabbler
01:44 <Falang> I opened it, yeah.
02:06 <Falang> afflict, charm, enchant..
02:10 <Falang> summon
02:20 <Falang> all very useful effects
02:20 <Wrothmonk> enchant is more of mind stuff
02:52 <Steven> i dont see how i would be able to get it cheaper.
03:06 <Falang> so?  charm person won our last game
03:21 <Wrothmonk> Hrm... Alright
03:38 <Wrothmonk> What about domain and bloodline bonus spells?
04:53 <Falang> Mekkis: Can't you just duct tape it to a small UPS? That would be cheap.
05:01 <Falang> there are no sorcerers
05:05 <Falang> and disable that damn beeping.
05:08 <Falang> period
05:13 <Falang> magic is magic
05:14 <Wrothmonk> fair point
05:18 <Mekkis> Steven, it's hard to find at all. There is one ebay seller who has them.
05:23 <Falang> no priests either, but you could work that
05:33 <Mekkis> Falang, a "small UPS" weighs 5-10kg
05:35 <Falang> WHERE the magic comes from hardly matters
05:44 <Wrothmonk> Well I would like to include the chanel positive energy stuff
05:54 <Falang> sure, probably pretty easy to do
06:25 <Falang> might be better to run it as a more generic-y PF setting, less complicated.
06:38 <Falang> keep the gods in the background
06:45 <Falang> still portable.
07:01 <Mekkis> not on a plane
07:06 <Falang> WTF
07:11 <Falang> why do you need a printer on a plane?!
07:23 * Falang carefully takes Mekkis' crack pipe away
07:24 <Mekkis> I need a battery-powered printer at my destination
07:34 <Falang> why don't you premake a handfull of characters, like 1st magnitude wizards with assorted spells and we'll playtest a battle
07:51 <Falang> (with some prep time to work out thier spells and grasp the system)
07:59 <Wrothmonk> That could work...
08:06 <Wrothmonk> Cant do it tonight though unfortunetly
08:46 <Falang> no rush. I'm interested to see how it works, I'm slowly working on my own campaign idea.
08:57 <Wrothmonk> I already got a campaign idea myself
10:54 <Falang> we always used to run a combat playtest first, to work out the kinks
11:14 <Falang> pick a nice map, place people around it, etc. with cover and whatnot. useful objects.
13:05 <Wrothmonk> Yeah I could probably mock up a simple group.
13:44 <Falang> have them duke it out
14:02 <Wrothmonk> PvP?
14:05 <Falang> yes
14:10 <Wrothmonk> Hell yes!
14:27 <Falang> we did that in Twilight 2000, Cyberpunk 2020, etc.
14:35 <Falang> always the best way to make sure people know the rules
14:43 <Wrothmonk> Agreed
14:53 <Falang> maybe do it with 1st mag, then 2nd mag, etc.
15:10 <Falang> I see what you mean about healing though, that's 1st magnitude..
15:42 <Falang> just have to rest the old fashioned way
16:03 <Falang> or buy potions etc
16:49 <Falang> or priests get a free healing 'domain'
16:54 <Wrothmonk> I was thinking about a system where you can decrease the magnitude if you decrease the DC by so much.
17:06 <Wrothmonk> Or we could do that.
17:41 <Falang> or screw it, it's just how it works. no healing at low levels. consumables or items only.
17:43 <Wrothmonk> DC to*
18:12 <Falang> or perhaps the spells at what magnitude chart is a little different for divine casters
18:29 <Falang> and healing is at student level
18:43 <Falang> and other things are moved up into 1st, like Force
18:43 <Wrothmonk> That sounds... interesting
18:50 <BoomerET> Yay!!! I got my Steam account back.
19:02 <Falang> Congrats!  what about the account stealing bastiches?
19:17 <Wrothmonk> Perhaps do the same with different types of casters? druids get nature stuff, arcane gets create energy?
19:23 <BoomerET> I think they may have never actually gotten in.
19:36 <Mekkis> ummm... yay
19:38 <BoomerET> Last account access was 58 days ago.
19:45 <Mekkis> so now you can start giving Steam more cash!
19:48 <Falang> I think I might leave create energy where it is, force is good enough to start with offensively
19:56 <Wrothmonk> its non-lethal
20:16 <Falang> so?  knocked out is as good as dead after combat
20:22 <Wrothmonk> Fair point
20:43 <Falang> I'd much rather dish out 2d8 nonlethal than 1d8 lethal
20:45 <Wrothmonk> I managed to make a decent spell that should knock out most creatures level one.
20:59 <Wrothmonk> 2d8 nonlethal for a 5 round cast
21:00 <BoomerET> Anyone play Mouse Guard or Burning Wheel. Wondering if I might like Torchbearer
21:18 <Wrothmonk> >70% sucess rate at max spell skill
21:30 <Falang> 5 round cast?  that's a long time.
21:39 <Wrothmonk> its like dc 26
21:48 <Falang> did you try that as a sleep effect with Enchant?
21:58 <Wrothmonk> Ah didnt think of that
22:06 <Wrothmonk> wait, not 5 rounds
22:11 <Wrothmonk> 2 rounds and a standard action
22:17 <Falang> better, but still.
22:23 <Wrothmonk> 5 standard actions, where 2 standard actions = a full round
23:08 <Wrothmonk> let me do some math quick and I'll see if i can get better with enchant
24:54 <Wrothmonk> holy shi
25:05 <Wrothmonk> I think you may be able to pull a CDG
25:14 <Wrothmonk> leme do the math
28:07 <Falang> come to think of it, this system tends towards 'converting lethal damage to nonlethal damage', not outright healing.
28:19 <Falang> which is rather logical
28:28 <Wrothmonk> Yes, you can easily pull a 2 round sleep and do a CDG
28:33 <Wrothmonk> provided nobody slaps them awake
28:37 <Falang> where they've never heard of printers
29:17 <Wrothmonk> wait...
29:28 <Wrothmonk> hrm, full round action
29:36 <Wrothmonk> or you could always prepare it
29:39 <Falang> forget the cdg
29:46 <Wrothmonk> then yes
29:46 <Falang> just keep them out.
29:51 <Wrothmonk> sleep as a standard action
29:58 <Wrothmonk> for one round
30:05 <Falang> 3 rounds? 
30:31 <Wrothmonk> full round action then
30:46 <Wrothmonk> its touch as well
30:57 <Falang> with components, verbal, etc?
31:12 <Wrothmonk> components give bonuses to spellcraft
31:13 <Wrothmonk> not the DC
31:18 <Wrothmonk> which determines the casting time
31:21 <Falang> ah
31:37 <Falang> I'll have to read it in more depth
31:43 <Wrothmonk> let me look around, there may be a way to reduce it...
32:53 <Wrothmonk> hrm... looks like you cant unless you want to put yourself to sleep
33:00 <Wrothmonk> wait, that wouldnt even do it :/
33:17 <Steven> obviously
33:41 <Falang> what if you just cloud the mind so they can't act?
33:48 <Wrothmonk> hrm...
34:25 <Wrothmonk> ok for some reason thats an even bigger DC 
34:29 <Falang> well the sample sleep spell is 3hd
34:53 <Falang> if you just used 1hd it's -10 to that dc, leaving it as dc 14
34:59 <Falang> duration 1 minute
35:08 <Falang> making it ranged is what?
35:20 <Wrothmonk> d14 is still a full round, but I see your point
35:42 <Falang> you'd work the HD on the fly depending on how strong they appeared anyway
36:08 <Falang> ah, touch to ranged is +4, so at dc 18 you can do a sleep ray
36:12 <Wrothmonk> actually 14 is a full round and a standard.
36:26 <Wrothmonk> 18 would be 5 standard actions
36:44 <Wrothmonk> I think knocking them out completely will be better at that point.
36:50 <Falang> and you can cut down on that with verbal and somatic components, yes?
36:55 <Wrothmonk> Negative
36:58 <Falang> oh you said that
36:59 <Falang> spellcraft
37:07 <Steven> half elf oracle
37:11 <Wrothmonk> positive
37:12 <Wrothmonk> :P
37:41 <Falang> well that's what spell energy is for
37:45 <Wrothmonk> so it looks like you may want to prepare the spells
37:47 <Falang> blow a point and the spell goes off
38:16 <Wrothmonk> preparing the spell will allow you to cast any spell as a standard action.
38:27 <Hydrazine> huh.
38:29 <Falang> a little preperation goes a long way
38:35 <Wrothmonk> Yup
38:36 <Hydrazine> I have no idea what you folk are talking about, but I'm curious.
38:49 <Wrothmonk> True Sorcery
38:57 <Falang> I might have the pdf link in my history.. or wroth can give it to you.
39:02 <Wrothmonk> just a sec...
39:11 <Wrothmonk> I downloaded the pdf so I have to search my history
39:27 <Steven> lore oracle i think/
39:29 <Wrothmonk> got it
39:30 <Wrothmonk> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/202013/True%20Sorcery.pdf
40:51 <Wrothmonk> The idea is that you can augment any spell and its just the base parts that make up all spells
41:02 <Wrothmonk> you can even go as far as combining spells
41:16 <Falang> fascinating, tell us more.
41:30 <Wrothmonk> For example you could create a burning hands where the flames are fanned to even greater lengths.
42:07 <Steven> gonna take that alternate racial once i get second level spells.
42:09 <Wrothmonk> or you could just plain expand the area
42:31 <Steven> get me more spell known per day.
42:32 <Falang> or make it 5d10 instead of 5d4
43:28 <Steven> just gotta pick me a curse
44:14 <Wrothmonk> And that is all just one of the base spells. Create energy(fire)
45:07 <Falang> I liked the idea that you can pick which attribute your spell energy comes from
45:13 <Falang> an optional rule I think
45:24 <Steven> mebe Haunted.
45:56 <Wrothmonk> Actually its not option, you must take create energy multiple times to get say, shocking graps and burning hands
46:28 <Wrothmonk> Anyway spells are also just one feat which is called talent
46:40 <Wrothmonk> you choose one of the base spells and you know it
46:58 <Falang> yes, so create fire is ALL fire spells you could want
47:03 <Falang> if you can handle casting it
47:18 <Wrothmonk> And I just realised how you get multiple spells at first level
47:25 <Wrothmonk> Human bonus feat :P
47:34 <Falang> or just class feat
47:44 <Wrothmonk> Thats what you normally get first level
47:50 <Falang> and at levels 3, 5, 7, etc you get one
48:07 <Falang> but on the upside there's no metamagic feats to worry about
48:25 <Wrothmonk> You can just do that for a higher spellcasting DC
48:36 <Falang> so things like.. metamagic rods.. they could give you 3 spells a day without having to take the DC penalty?
48:49 <Falang> blends pretty easily
49:00 <Wrothmonk> thats another thing, you have detect magic and concentration as skills
49:06 <Wrothmonk> metamagic rods?
49:11 <Falang> from PF
49:16 <Falang> don't forget about magic items
49:21 <Wrothmonk> Ah
49:31 <Wrothmonk> but the thing is they are a single /effect/
49:35 <Falang> detect magic shouldn't be a spell anyway
49:43 <Wrothmonk> Agreed!
49:45 <Falang> wroth: that's why I said they just negate a penalty
49:59 <Wrothmonk> oh right the drain
50:11 <Falang> drain and/or dc
50:20 <Falang> oh, there was the.. what was it.. energy buffer?
50:29 <Wrothmonk> Spellpower
50:38 <Falang> casting buffer
50:46 <Falang> pg 118
50:47 <Wrothmonk> Its the stuff you can use to quicken spells
51:26 <Falang> I'm upping the True20 book itself.
51:28 <Wrothmonk> ok we are talking about different books now.
51:29 <Falang> might help
51:43 <Wrothmonk> wait..
52:26 <Wrothmonk> Thats the same thing
52:40 <Falang> top of page 19
52:42 <Falang> in the grey
52:50 niconorsk{ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
53:18 <Wrothmonk> oh right...
53:54 <Wrothmonk> ok it works differently in the way you gain the buffer
54:49 <Wrothmonk> Normally you would get your spell energy upgraded is by increasing your magnitude?
54:51 <Falang> PF is kinda high magic, so things can be worked out a little bit. spells might need to be faster etc.
55:03 <Falang> yeah, or taking a feat to increase it specifically
55:26 <Falang> that'll work out in playtesting
55:26 <Wrothmonk> I like the other system better :P
55:43 <Wrothmonk> Yup
56:03 niconorsk has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
56:24 <Falang> can try both
56:38 <Wrothmonk> hrm...
56:49 <Wrothmonk> looking over this I'm not so sure
57:53 <Wrothmonk> since then you cant reduce the amount of spells an enemy caster can cast by dealing nonlethal.
58:50 <Falang> but you can knock them out by dealing nonlethal
59:06 <Wrothmonk> True
59:16 <Wrothmonk> but dealing nonlethal can cause /them/ to knock themselves out
59:18 <Wrothmonk> >:D
59:18 <Falang> oh wait
59:20 <Falang> hm
59:32 <Falang> so after your casting buffer was empty, THEN you would take nonlethal?
59:51 <Wrothmonk> That could work...
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