#d&d - 2012-08-13 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2012-08-13

1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
« 2012-08-12 2012-08-14 »
08:02 snypt has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
17:15 whitenoise ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
17:47 <whitenoise> Avatar: was I snoring on the skype? :P I was dead anyhow. I had 8hp, and I fell with a roll into the gorge, even though you forgot and said I was at 15ft.
17:54 <whitenoise> So I was at -12 hp anyhow, with my 22 roll
19:50 tashphones has quit (EOF from client)
21:49 <kapow> the stampede only did 16 to you which would of meant being -8
21:54 <kapow> and we healed you immediately
22:02 <kapow> and yes you where snoring and it was hilarious
22:24 <whitenoise> haha
22:41 tashphones ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:49 <whitenoise> kapow: which character were you?
22:54 <kapow> henry
22:57 <whitenoise> aha
23:22 <whitenoise> I was hoping to last the campaign, 1) to see the 3rd act and 2) to be able to transfer the level over to my main.
23:24 <whitenoise> but alas
23:38 <whitenoise> i did not sleep a full night the night before, and wasn't expecting a game when i came in, was just going to chat it up.
23:47 <whitenoise> so, next time i'll have to be more prepared to be awake :P
23:53 <whitenoise> how long did act 3 end up taking?
24:39 <kapow> not long but i think you need to talk to avatar and find out the outcome he'll be asleep though most likely i think he has work in the morning
24:51 <whitenoise> ok cool
24:59 <whitenoise> so i almost made it! :P
25:20 <kapow> no you still missed a fair bit
26:40 <kapow> actually probably the most significant part
26:47 <kapow> and the funnest
26:49 <whitenoise> yeah, i gathered that i missed the most important bit
27:31 <whitenoise> did you guys actually play Ezren's turn?
27:39 <whitenoise> i felt pretty useless as a level 1 wizard.
28:16 <kapow> you tried to climb up failed and fell down
28:25 <kapow> then you didn't get anymore turns
29:59 <whitenoise> alright wells, i gotta get ready
30:11 <whitenoise> i'll be back, finish up my character this week
30:19 <whitenoise> and get sleep
30:53 <whitenoise> it was a lot of fun, though
30:55 <whitenoise> and i learned a lot
52:12 whitenoise has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
12:10 Forevernade has quit (Connection closed)
28:51 kapow has quit (Quit: )
54:53 ducknuckem has quit (Quit: For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. - Carl Sagan)
23:08 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
43:32 snypt ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
11:50 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
45:23 Wrothmonk_ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
45:24 Wrothmonk has quit (EOF from client)
45:24 Wrothmonk_ is now known as Wrothmonk
00:21 <Steven> start casting buffs that the longest first
01:35 <Steven> any second level spell lasts 3 minutes at the minimum, then the round right before they get in, cast whatever spell lasts rounds/level
01:47 <Steven> honestly if they are going to metagame like that, metagame right back
01:49 <Ballig> how do yuo know when 'the round right before they get in" is
01:59 <Ballig> it's not metagaming
02:04 <Ballig> it's a legitimate, IC tactic
02:47 <Ballig> metagaming is when you start buffing once the GM lays out a map because you know that means you're about to fight
03:01 <Ballig> using your OOC knowledge ("the GM just laid down a map") to influence your IC actions
03:15 <Ballig> waiting a few minutes after you set off an alarm is IC character knowledge, no OOC knowledge is coming into play
03:53 <Steven> i am assuming this is an alarm the players are setting off
04:02 <Ballig> the characters are setting it off
04:03 <Ballig> not the players
04:36 <Steven> the only alarm ive ever encountered that made a sound was in the blackrose museum
04:47 <Avatar> spoielrz
05:06 <Ballig> yeah man now whenever I go into the Blackros Museum I'm going to be freaking out about alarms!!
05:19 <Steven> yes... dont touch the artwork
05:35 <Ballig> well that one really is a spoiler because the alarm I was thinking of wasn't artwork :p
05:38 <Ballig> but was in the museum
06:04 * Steven shrugs noncommittally 
06:21 <Ballig> anyway, like I said, no OOC knowledge is coming into play, so the player isn't metagaming
06:30 <Ballig> it's a bit unfair to metagame in retaliation of decent tactics
07:33 <Steven> i dont ever view anything as unfair
07:57 <Steven> if they want to wait 90s between the time the alarm goes off and the time they burst in the room
08:14 <Steven> well that gives the bad guy 90s to buff himself fully with minutes per level spells
08:27 <Steven> get bored, and call in a henchman or two
08:32 <Ballig> if that's a legitimate tactic for the NPC to have, because he has those spells available, then great
08:38 <Ballig> but there are definitely unfair things that a GM can do
09:42 <Ballig> summoning magic henchmen could definitely be one of those :p
10:44 <Steven> yeah, im not saying completely fuck the PCs, but if they are consistently using tactics to swing things far far into their favor
10:50 <Steven> well hell, they arent being challenged
10:57 <Steven> time to ramp up the difficulty a bit
11:06 <Ballig> how does "waiting two minutes" swing t hings far into their favour
11:12 <Ballig> that sounds like the encounter might be set up a little wrong
11:24 <Ballig> if negating a few short-duration buffs makes the encounter "far in the PC's favour"
11:55 <Steven> if the moral of the encounter is as soon as the alarm goes off, knowing it takes 5 rounds to get from the alarm to the door
12:32 <Steven> he the npc casts 5 spells that are designed to take a CR 4 encounter to a CR 11 encounter.... yes this is from experience
12:34 <Ballig> are you the sort of GM who hates it when players find inventive ways to circumvent encounters altogether?
13:15 <Ballig> what happens if there is a wizard or sorcerer that has a well-placed dispel magic? is that "using tactics to swing things far in their favour"?
13:19 <Steven> and those spells all last for roughly a minute, then the PCs burst through the door just as the end encounter
13:40 <Steven> just as the buffs go down for the end encoutner even
14:05 <Steven> theres nothing thats a problem with the wizard or sorc who spends an action to start debuffing
14:26 <Ballig> but there is if the party spends 2 minutes on a legitimate tactic to wait out very likely buffs?
14:33 <Ballig> why is one action worth more than 2 minutes?
14:53 <Steven> action economy is always in the players favor
15:23 <Ballig> that doesn't explain why one single action is somehow a higher investment of resources, and more fair, than two minutes waiting before combat
16:02 <Steven> if NPCs buffs are waited out, then the player that would otherwise have to cast the spell to get rid of a buff, can now instead just lightning bolt or some other action
16:25 <Ballig> doesn't seem like a huge difference in investment
16:31 <Ballig> one is a legitimately smart tactic
16:34 <Ballig> the other is a spell
16:50 <Ballig> don't see why you are so invested in your NPCs and encounters that you would feel the need to "punish" PCs for being creative or smart
17:36 <Steven> im not punishing them, but i dont think im going to reward them for standing in a hallway.
17:49 <Steven> if anything im going to punish them for that.
18:05 <Ballig> you just said you weren't punishing them :p
18:08 <Ballig> a second later you said you would punish them
18:15 <Ballig> that's my point - why? it's a legitimately intelligent tactic
18:23 <Ballig> if I was in the D&D world I'd probably do exactly that
18:39 <Ballig> you know that alarms are set to alert people of your presence, that if alerted they will fight you, that if they're spellcasters they will buff, and that a lot of buffs are short duration
18:52 <Ballig> bam, perfect logical sense to wait a few minutes so that you can turn the tables a little bit on that element of surprise
19:30 <Steven> perfectly logical for the boss to know how long it takes to get from the alarm to the door as well
19:41 <Ballig> okay
19:42 <Ballig> so?
20:10 <Steven> overall, my point really is in response to how i perceived mekkis' question
20:35 <Steven> which was the players are casting an alarm spell to alert the boss to their presence, the boss is buffing themselves
20:43 <Steven> they wait 90s and then charge in
20:53 <Ballig> he didn't say they are casting an alarm spell
20:58 <Ballig> he said they set off an alarm accidentally
21:06 <Steven> he did not say that.
21:09 <Ballig> he did
21:11 <Ballig> he even confirmed
21:20 <Ballig> [5:54:33 PM] <MekkisScreen> Steven: you don't choose to set of an alarm
21:20 <Ballig> [5:54:43 PM] <MekkisScreen> it just happens
21:47 <Steven> that was after we began discussing it.
21:51 <Ballig> right
21:55 <Ballig> hence the confirmation
22:57 <Steven> right, so, in that case its fine... i didnt see why he would have a problem adapting to that, so i went to my 'how would i exploit this' list
23:48 <Steven> which the most powerful exploit of it is, the PCs set an alarm spell and have it go off, alerting the boss to their presence, then wait out the buffs.
24:25 <Ballig> not necessarily a stupid tactic
24:35 <Steven> ide allow it one time at any of my tables, and then discourage it if it became a standard tactic
24:37 <Ballig> stomp around and make a lot of noise so they know you're there, then use it to your advantage in some way
25:05 <Ballig> most NPCs have a "if the NPC is aware of the intruders" tactic, that aren't necessarily timed
25:15 <Ballig> the timed ones are usually based on something else
25:42 <Ballig> nothing to prevent a boss NPC from sending out one of his lackeys to scout how far away the PCs are
25:49 <Ballig> before he blows his buffs
26:08 <Ballig> my point is that any retaliatory tactic should be just as IC as the players are expected to act
26:14 <Steven> yeah, all my NPCs start with the hours, then tens, then minutes, then rounds
26:20 <Ballig> and DM fiat is fairly universally frowned on in that kind of situation
26:52 <Steven> I allow all my players to frown at me as much as they want
27:06 <Ballig> as long as you know that enough frowning and they'll stop playing with you
27:11 <Ballig> you're not much of a GM with no players
28:17 <Steven> I've only had one player who doesnt want to play with me anymore because i killed his character as his first pfs session, and he has never played again
28:45 <Ballig> that's probably something to avoid where possible
28:47 <Steven> he was a monk with a 14 Wis, and a massive AC of 15
28:57 <Steven> 11Hp
29:12 <Steven> he hit like a truck
29:19 <Avatar> mekkis killed my character at my second pfs session
29:29 <Avatar> I think we survived our first one by sheer luck
29:35 <Ballig> yeah we did
29:44 <Avatar> I still don't know how we managed to get through it
29:45 <Steven> he got to go first in initiative
29:53 <Steven> he ran right up to the group of bad guys
29:57 <Steven> killed one of them
30:02 <Steven> with one punch
30:11 <Ballig> Avatar: colour spray
30:13 <Steven> the other 3 baddies were like... right... so flank him and kill
30:18 <Avatar> ah
30:36 <Steven> +3 to hit with rapiers
30:40 <Avatar> here's a question
30:51 <Avatar> if you could change colour spray to any other level to make it more balanced for a wizard
30:53 <Steven> total damage of 3d6+3 +3d6
30:53 <Avatar> what would you change it to
31:01 <Ballig> Steven: do you blame him for what happened?
31:04 <Steven> them rogues so nasty
31:08 <Steven> Yes
31:11 <Ballig> okay
31:18 <Steven> because he was like I'll charge him
31:20 <Ballig> no wonder you lost a player
31:31 <Steven> and i was like, okay you are a monk
31:43 <Steven> maybe you should delay until the paladin goes in
31:45 <Ballig> brand new to PFS and you blame him personally for being surrounded and killed
31:59 <Steven> he said he played d&d before
32:05 <Ballig> Avatar: second level, probably, if it wasn't changed in any way
32:12 <Ballig> Steven: PFS is different to D&D
32:13 <Ballig> it's harder, for one
32:41 <Ballig> only people who have played PFS before would suspect that all four of those NPCs would be ready to flank and have sneak attacks
32:44 <Steven> never the less, if a GM says hey maybe you should let the paladin go first
32:55 <Avatar> yeah no changes to it
32:56 <Ballig> not listening to the GM shouldn't be an automatic death sentence
33:10 <Ballig> second level is hard to do though because that means that the spell is only useful for a single level
33:14 <Ballig> rather than changing level I'd probably change how it works
33:32 <Steven>  and you tell the GM, no i know what im doing and charge anyways despite the rest of the table backing me up on not running in
33:45 <Ballig> Steven: still not worth a death sentence on your first game
33:47 <Ballig> I'm with him, you were a dick
33:51 <Ballig> I wouldn't play with you again after that either
34:16 <Steven> then you would miss out on some fun times
34:39 <Ballig> that's not how I would see it, if I were him
34:54 <Ballig> it's not a great idea to summarily execute someone brand new to the game, if there is any legitimate way you can avoid it
35:11 <Ballig> e.g. bringing him down to negatives and then only killing him if the rest of the party dies
35:19 <Ballig> or knocking him unconscious and taking him prisoner
35:28 <Steven> not my fault he died.  I flat out told him, you go, they all go, then your party members go
35:32 <Ballig> or any number of ways you could avoid it if you had any motivation to do it
35:36 <Ballig> it was your fault he died
36:32 <Steven> delay until your paladin goes, you dont want to charge into 4 guys, the rest of the party said yeah, dont go in like that
36:47 <Steven> he told me, I know what im doing, im gonna charge.  i said okay, he ran in and killed one
36:51 <Steven> the rest killed him
36:52 <Ballig> I've already said that not listening to the GM shouldn't be summary execution
37:09 <Ballig> basically you felt offended that he didn't listen to yo u
37:13 <Ballig> so you wanted to teach him a lesson by killing him
37:20 <Ballig> great job, lesson learned - don't play with Steven if you're new to PFS
37:48 <Steven> not listening to the GM and then refusing to listen to the rest of the table... well you asking to die.
37:56 <Ballig> I disagree
37:58 <Steven> i gave good advice, he chose not to listen to it
38:10 <Ballig> and you got offended, so you were vindictive in retaliation
38:12 <Steven> the rest of the table gave good advice, he chose not to listen to it
38:14 <Ballig> you sound like a very vindictive GM in general
38:24 <Ballig> do you see it as a "me versus them" game when you GM?
38:38 <Steven> nope, i follow the Moral when at all possible
38:47 <Ballig> doesn't sound like it man
38:48 <Ballig> at all
38:51 <Steven> if there is no moral listed, i play by their intelligence
40:19 <Steven> down at the shop, im the most forgiving GM there is
41:19 <Ballig> so if Hitler and Genghis Kahn were neighbours, could Hitler justify himself by saying "at least I'm not as bad as the guy next door"?
41:21 <Steven> i just dont give any slack when somebody does something so stupid as running in to baddies against the advice of 5 other people.
41:41 <Ballig> and if it was any other person I'd say that's fair enough
41:44 <Ballig> but not on the guy's FIRST PFS game
41:53 <Ballig> obviously he had no idea how difficult the scenarios could be
42:13 <Ballig> "yeah! IN YOUR FUCKING FACE! taught you a lesson about how hard these scenarios are! ha ha! roll up a new character!" is hardly a great way to introduce someone to organised play
42:46 <Steven> yes, because i rubbed it in his face after i killed him.
42:54 <Ballig> killing him rubs it in his face
44:14 <Steven> I disagree.  You can disagree with me.  We probably wont see eye to eye about this. 
45:11 <Avatar> there's just one question here, really
45:16 <Avatar> did you hit him while he was unconscious
45:24 <Steven> nope.
45:39 <Avatar> and he didn't go from positives to dead?
46:01 <Ballig> you would have had to man
46:05 <Ballig> you said he was attacked by 3 things with sneak attack
46:07 <Ballig> from 11hp
46:16 <Ballig> how do you get hit by 3 things, each doing 1d6+1+1d6
46:25 <Ballig> and go from full to dead without going into negatives?
46:35 <Avatar> wouldn't have to be full
46:40 <Ballig> he was full
46:41 <Steven> he went from half orc, standing at -1
46:59 <Steven> and the last hit took him to -10
47:03 <Steven> and he failed to stablize
47:28 <Ballig> you basically have to go out of your way to kill someone in that situation
47:42 <Steven> I said not to use orc ferocity. he said he wanted to
47:43 <Ballig> barring a string of unlucky criticals
47:44 <Avatar> I think half-orc is the grey area here
47:57 <Avatar> because if he can keep attacking in the negatives and he does so
48:01 <Avatar> the enemy has to react to it
48:23 <Avatar> it's not just one attack and then you start dying is it, you just stay up until you're dead
48:53 <Steven> he elected to fall down
48:59 <Steven> at the last attack
49:15 <Steven> that took him to -10
49:49 <Avatar> too late though
50:14 <Avatar> do you remember his con
50:19 <Avatar> a healer might still have been able to get up there
50:22 <Steven> 11
50:58 <Avatar> what was the rest of the party doing
51:09 <Steven> waiting for their turn
51:19 <Avatar> there were a couple of turns in between his attacks though right
52:07 <Steven> he went-dropped one, the other three went dropping him to -10 at which point he dropped down, his party members went
52:13 <Steven> no one healed him
52:20 <Steven> next turn, he fails to stablize and dies
54:17 <Avatar> oh, they all won initiative?
54:34 <Avatar> after him
54:41 <Steven> yeah
55:00 <Avatar> did they all have to gang up on him
55:46 <Steven> moral dictated they attack the closest enemy, setting up flanking whenever possible
56:11 <Ballig> were they hungry?
56:35 <Steven> they were thieves... suppose they were hungry for loot
57:08 <Avatar> what's moral, is that tactics
57:17 <Steven> yeah, tactics/moral
57:21 <Steven> its what we call it up here
58:20 <Ballig> morale
58:27 <Steven> yeah thats the one
03:04 <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones
03:23 whitenoise ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
14:45 dicebot has quit (*.net *.split)
15:53 Niel ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
17:50 dicebot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
37:59 <Avatar> what does that mean
47:14 <whitenoise> anybody around these here parts?
55:02 Wrothmonk has quit (Client exited)
09:26 <Ballig> what does what mean
09:53 <snypt> you know
12:46 <Brunius> I think he means how is the fluff going to change to justify there suddenly being 3 more races commonly around
18:47 <Avatar> that seems like a bit of a leap
18:55 <Avatar> how do you know he means that
18:59 <Brunius> I don't.
19:06 <Brunius> Can you see a better explanation?
19:25 <Avatar> maybe he meant wonder when they are going to introduce 3 new ones
19:29 <Avatar> like after these 3 
19:54 <Avatar> [19:02] <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones
20:16 <Brunius> I like how the bank has sent me a piece of paper just to say "Hey, nothing happened in the last two months"
20:44 <Brunius>  And I got interest thrice on my 33c!
21:07 <Avatar> nice 1
21:22 <Avatar> not worth the paper it's printed on by the sounds
21:36 <Brunius> www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ntZwU39SjWI#t=1h7m15s
21:38 <Avatar> people at work are really shocked by my hate of paper
21:55 <Avatar> which they only saw when I noticed they print every single thing out just because
21:58 <Brunius> Why do you hate paper
22:13 <Avatar> it's clutter you can't find
22:19 <Avatar> better to scan and put it in a folder
22:47 <Brunius> While computers are better for some things, I find it really hard to read stuff on a computer
23:07 <Brunius> I'm printing out every datasheet for components of this robot I'm building
23:18 <Brunius> Simple because I can't read it properly on a computer
24:01 <Brunius> Simply even
32:17 <Avatar> yeah we're talking word documents man
32:25 <Avatar> not robot components
33:31 Niel has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
34:16 <Brunius> How long
34:52 <Avatar> one or two pages
34:58 <Avatar> routinely
35:01 <Brunius> Yeah, that is rather wasteful
35:31 <Brunius> Any more than three of actual reading (i.e. not half graphs) I usually print
39:19 <Avatar> they will print them and not even read them
39:28 <Avatar> they will print them and put them in a filing cabinet
39:36 <Brunius> dafuq
39:40 <Avatar> over and over and over and over and over again
39:45 <Brunius> Do they delete the file afterwards?
39:50 <Avatar> no
40:01 <Brunius> Have you explained the concept of a backup to them
40:07 <Avatar> they do it just to have a paper copy
40:18 <Avatar> most of my training stuff was in paper
40:29 <Avatar> I had to drill it into them to send me softcopies
40:35 <Avatar> or they'd print out a PDF they had instead of sending it to me
40:41 <Avatar> even after I said just send it to me
42:38 <Brunius> What, they put it in an envelope and sent it to you
46:10 <Steven> alright... well that sucked....
46:12 <Brunius> Steven
46:14 <Steven> completely owned at sc2
46:22 <Brunius> What does [19:02:56] <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones mean
46:32 <Steven> so... decided to come back
46:39 <Avatar> yeah brunius and I have a bet
46:46 <Brunius> There was no bet
46:51 <Avatar> let's make it interesting
47:01 <Brunius> I don't have anything to bet
47:03 <Steven> they are opening up 3 races that everyone can play, im wondering if they will introduce 3 'new' races
47:15 <Avatar> I know you're too young, but you've got to live a little
47:17 <Ballig> Avatar: are they over 40?
47:26 <Avatar> yeah, some of them
47:28 <Ballig> I've found that people over 40 will often print emails to read them
47:32 <Ballig> and then throw the email away
47:35 <Avatar> ironically, the oldest one is really technically minded
47:40 <Brunius> You mean as boons?
47:41 <Avatar> she seemed like the IT person before I got there
47:42 Niel ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
47:49 <Steven> yes as boons
48:58 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
59:41 <Ballig> ogres
02:51 Niel has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
05:39 <Avatar> I'm actually doing most of the throwing away
05:49 <Avatar> they print out the PDF, I scan it, and throw it away
12:28 <Ballig> sup whitenoise
12:30 <Ballig> you snore like a motherfucker
13:42 <whitenoise> Ballig: hey
13:43 <whitenoise> haha
13:59 <whitenoise> allergies, and i was already about 3-4 hours short on sleep that night.
14:10 <whitenoise> which is why i didn't last. i didn't know i'd be invited to a game
14:38 <Ballig> we tried yelling to wake you up but that didn't work!
14:43 <whitenoise> but i'm glad i played--i hope my falling asleep didn't present a problem
14:49 <whitenoise> lol
15:05 <whitenoise> yeah, unless you're making some sort of shrill, unnatural noise or you're hitting me, i won't wake up.
15:20 <Ballig> I feel like you might be describing your girlfriend
15:26 <whitenoise> lol
15:32 <whitenoise> perhaps, yes
15:47 <Ballig> so why isn't she playing with us
16:07 <whitenoise> she doesn't like games with lots of rules, nor does she like really strategizing that much
16:14 <whitenoise> she wouldn't find dnd fun at all, just frustrating
17:06 <whitenoise> i've been looking over class documentation with better understanding now, as well.
17:18 <whitenoise> and i know what BAB and CMB/CMD stand for, finally.
17:20 <Ballig> yeah once you've seen stuff in action it's easier to conceptualise it
17:40 <Ballig> you start to understand why a fighter can hit more accurately than a wizard
17:46 <whitenoise> i still don't understand how sometimes someone only has a standard action and other times they have a full turn--what decides that?
18:05 <Ballig> that was happening a lot last game because of all the surprise rounds
18:12 <Ballig> basically every combat was being started with one
18:34 <whitenoise> so we were surprising the enemy, or they were surprising us?
18:35 <Ballig> if some people aren't aware of the enemy before the combat begins, they are surprised for the first round of combat
18:42 <whitenoise> aha.
18:43 <Ballig> they were surprising some of us
18:47 <Ballig> that's what all the perception rolls were for
18:49 <whitenoise> so when we get bad perception rolls
18:54 <whitenoise> then we only had a standard action, due to being surprised
18:58 <Ballig> people who rolled high enough on perception saw them and acted in the surprise round, but only with a standard action
19:09 <whitenoise> gotcha
19:10 <Ballig> nah, if you got a bad perception you had no action
19:14 <whitenoise> oh
19:20 <Ballig> if you got a good perception you acted in the surprise round, but a surprise round is only a standard action
19:22 <Ballig> instead of a full round
19:30 <whitenoise> i see, i see. makes sense.
19:30 <Brunius> Just ask them if they have a digital copy
19:37 <Brunius> Eventually they'll just give you the digital copy
19:40 <whitenoise> and i have yet to grasp exactly what i can do in standard action vs full
20:02 <Ballig> a full round action is split between one standard and one movement
20:08 <whitenoise> and in the interest of sorc/wizard -- how does one get stuff like tentacles, or butter, or cured leather?
20:09 <Ballig> standard actions are what you use to attack, cast spells, etc
20:09 <Brunius> Skip the hard copy altogether
20:15 <whitenoise> ohh
20:16 <Ballig> movement actions are used mostly to move, but also to draw weapons
20:17 <whitenoise> well thats easy
20:23 <whitenoise> unless you have Quick Draw!
20:33 <Ballig> you can use a standard action for a movement action, but not vice versa
20:41 <Ballig> so you can use your full round to perform two movement actions if you wanted to
20:42 <whitenoise> gotcha
20:45 <whitenoise> its all coming together for me
21:05 <Ballig> reagents that don't have a cost associated with them you are assumed you have
21:16 <Ballig> sorry, "spell components"
21:51 <Ballig> it's only spell components that are listed with a cost that you have to buy - for example, "rubies worth at least 500 gold"
21:57 <whitenoise> part of me wants to create a Monk-gone-Shadowdancer
22:10 <whitenoise> oh
22:16 <whitenoise> so you can just ignore the component, essentially
22:21 <Ballig> yeah
22:45 <whitenoise> so did Ezren finish out the campaign?
22:49 <Ballig> yep
22:51 <whitenoise> as in, do I get a free level on my dude and all?
23:02 <Ballig> you get some experience
23:07 <Ballig> Avatar will send you a chronicle sheet
23:12 <whitenoise> ah, cool
23:17 <whitenoise> so I'm not level 2 on whatever I make yet
23:23 <Ballig> not yet
23:28 <Ballig> you need 3 experience for each level in Pathfinder Society
23:43 <whitenoise> if I continue to play pregen characters to try stuff out, do I just accumulate experience that I can one day slap onto a character?
23:47 <Ballig> and you get 1 xp per scenario
24:20 <Ballig> I think you can only do pregen for your first game
24:34 <Ballig> but you are able to "rebuild" a character that is still first level
24:37 <whitenoise> oh, so i need to get my character together before this weekend :P
24:58 <Ballig> so at best you will have one more scenario to play and you could rebuild your character after that
24:59 <whitenoise> what do you think about the Shadowdancer Monk?
25:04 <Ballig> but after you play your third scenario you will be stuck with the character
25:17 <Ballig> I think that monks can be difficult to make effective, and adding Shadowdancer to it might complicate the issue
25:18 <Ballig> :p
25:23 <whitenoise> hehe
25:27 <whitenoise> true enough
25:40 <whitenoise> oh
25:47 <whitenoise> i also don't understand stealth classes exactly
25:53 <whitenoise> looking at ninja and rogue..
26:06 <whitenoise> so if i have a full turn, can i enter stealth, move, attack?
26:13 <whitenoise> or do i have move and enter stealth as 1 round
26:15 <whitenoise> then attack next round
26:29 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
26:39 <Ballig> stealthing in combat is really difficult
26:55 <Ballig> you almost always need to be out of sight before you can even start to stealth
27:07 <whitenoise> oh, so the whole WoW imagery of just popping stealth, running behind them and backstabbing
27:10 <whitenoise> that doesn't happen in DnD
27:18 <Ballig> yeah not so much
27:26 <whitenoise> good to know.
27:26 <Ballig> some classes have the "hide in plain sight" ability which is more like that
27:34 <whitenoise> Shadowdancer!
27:50 <Ballig> the thing with rogues (and anything that relies on sneak attack for damage) is that they need to be able to reliably maneuver into a sneak attack position
27:52 <Hydrazine> Even rogues in WoW can't just stealth in combat. Have to use vanish for that.
28:11 <Ballig> most rogues will rely on flanking to get sneak attack
28:18 <Ballig> relying on concealment (stealth etc) can be really unreliable
28:28 <whitenoise> i see, i see.
28:52 <whitenoise> my other thought was a fighter in light armor multiclassed with wiz/sorc
29:06 <whitenoise> because leather armor gives a 10% arcane spell failure chance
29:14 <Avatar> no I do
29:17 <whitenoise> but the first feat of arcane armor training gives a 10% bonus, so it would level out leathers
29:19 <Avatar> and they say yeah and print it out
29:30 <Ballig> yeah
29:39 <Avatar> they have the print button on speed dial
29:44 <Hydrazine> getting kinda MAD there, though.
29:45 <Avatar> or the ribbon or whateveri t's called these days
29:45 <Brunius> ...
29:56 <whitenoise> very true.
29:59 <Ballig> what's MAD
30:06 <whitenoise> Mutliple Attribute Dependent
30:10 * whitenoise has been studying
30:27 <Ballig> yeah, but nothing wrong with that
30:29 <whitenoise> means I would be needing STR/DEX high as well as INT and possibly WIS, yes?
30:39 <Ballig> probably not wis
30:45 <Ballig> it'll mostly be strength and int, and then dex/con as secondaries
30:47 <Hydrazine> decent con though.
31:01 <Hydrazine> well, if you're str over dex in light armor, your ac is going to suffer.
31:45 <Ballig> you can also consider things like mithral armour, when you get the money
32:22 <whitenoise> i also still don't understand how raising your skills works, or how you establish what they are in the beginning.
32:32 <Ballig> mithral breastplate with arcane armor training will leave you with a 5% arcane spell failure
32:52 <Ballig> your class grants you skill points each level
32:58 <Ballig> so wizard for example gets 2 skill points each level
33:04 <Ballig> you then gain (or lose) skill points based on your intelligence modifier
33:12 <Ballig> so a wizard with +4 int will get 6 skill points each level
33:15 <Ballig> (and another +1 if they are human)
33:33 <Ballig> each point you spend earns you one rank in a skill, and you can't have more ranks in a skill than you have class levels
33:43 <Ballig> so at first level you can only have maximum 1 rank in each skill
33:52 <whitenoise> which just gives a +1 bonus?
33:59 <Ballig> yeah
34:09 <Ballig> each class has "class skills", or skills that class is able to learn easier
34:11 <Hydrazine> plus ability mods, plus training if applicable.
34:12 <whitenoise> so for people (like Elves) who start out with a +2 Perception bonus
34:15 <whitenoise> is their Perception still rank 0?
34:17 <Ballig> if you put a rank into one of those skills, you get a +3 bonus to it
34:27 <Ballig> the rank is 0
34:42 <whitenoise> so a first level elf, if perception were a class skill
34:46 <whitenoise> with 1 skill point could go to +5 Perception
34:47 <Ballig> the total skill modifier is made up of rank, plus ability modifier, plus bonuses
34:59 <Ballig> so an elf with +1 wisdom and no ranks in perception would roll perception at +3
35:06 <Ballig> 0 ranks, +1 ability modifier, +2 racial bonus
35:35 <Ballig> if they were a class that had perception as a class skill and they put a rank in it, it would be 1 ranks, +1 ability modifier, +2 racial bonus, +3 class bonus
35:51 <whitenoise> oh wow
35:53 <whitenoise> so +6
36:09 <Ballig> +6 if they had no wisdom bonus, yeah
36:29 <Ballig> each skill has an ability tied to it, you get to add (or subtract, in the case of a low score) your modifier to your roll
36:44 <whitenoise> ahh
36:48 <whitenoise> like Climb you add your Str mod
36:54 <whitenoise> plus racial plus class
36:57 <Ballig> that's why Rabble was rolling -2 on his perception, he has no ranks in it and he is about as wise as a teenager on crack
37:06 <whitenoise> poor guy
37:21 <Avatar> bredanis roll up a character !!
37:30 <bredanis> roll up your face
37:36 <Avatar> well that's impolite
37:40 <Avatar> snypt that must be you
37:55 <snypt> ja
38:01 <whitenoise> so fighters tend to not notice things, then
38:01 <Avatar> ye
38:06 <Brunius> David Bowie is amazing
38:13 <snypt> had to switch from wifi to cable its download time
38:41 <snypt> arent you like 12 Brunius? how do u know who bowie it?
38:57 <Ballig> they're typically fairly oblivious
38:58 <snypt> is**
40:31 <whitenoise> and what is DC
40:36 <whitenoise> when stuff says Spellcraft DC, etc
41:40 <Ballig> it's how difficult a spell is to resist
41:52 <Ballig> so a lot of spells (probably most) have a "saving throw" associated with them
42:06 <Ballig> for example if you cast Grease below someone, they have a chance to avoid it with a reflex save
42:12 <Brunius> I'm 15 man
42:14 <Ballig> how hard it is for them to avoid that depends on the DC of your spell
42:21 <Ballig> it's equal to 10 + the level of the spell + your spellcasting stat
42:32 <Brunius> I've known of Bowie since 11-12...
42:36 <Ballig> so a wizard with 18 int casting Grease (a level 1 spell) would have a DC of 15
42:39 <Brunius> Ballig keeps telling people I'm 13
42:41 <Avatar> I don't like bowie
42:48 <Brunius> Not sure how you got the idea I was 12
42:49 <Ballig> someone trying not to slip in his grease would have to roll a 15 or above on their reflex save
43:05 <Avatar> hey it's the snoring man
43:09 <Avatar> I bullshit as much as ballig is trustworthy
43:10 <whitenoise> haha
43:13 <Ballig> Bowie has a big package
43:14 <whitenoise> man, i'm never going to live that down.
43:16 <Brunius> anyway, night folks
43:22 <Avatar> is that how it goes
43:24 <Avatar> I forget
43:27 <Brunius> I think it is
43:32 <Brunius> Got inverted once
43:55 <Ballig> your nick is pretty apt, really
43:57 <Avatar> man you missed the sweet epic end of the scenario
44:12 <Ballig> Rymen is going to kick himself that he missed the end of that scenario
44:14 <whitenoise> i know, i woke up at 4:30AM and saw some of the descs and I was like
44:22 <whitenoise> "Dang, I missed the best part."
44:25 <Ballig> did you read the end of it
44:41 <whitenoise> not really, I was too braindead.
44:47 <Ballig> after the gorge we got taken to the snowmask clan tribe
44:48 <whitenoise> I saw Rabble inspiring people to do something or other.
44:57 <Ballig> we told them a story, made them our best friends because Rabble is great at pretending to be a werewolf
45:16 <Ballig> then went and confronted the shadow lodge guys, who had the big fiery axe we were trying to prevent them from getting
45:28 <Ballig> combat started, Sara acted first, moved forward 30 feet and shot the shadow lodge leader in the face
45:41 <whitenoise> nice
45:41 <Ballig> critical hit, over 25 damage, killed her in one go
45:44 <Ballig> the rest of them fled
45:46 <whitenoise> and Ezren was sleep walking
46:08 <Ballig> it was pretty much like that scene in Indiana Jones where indie pulls out a gun and shoots the guy trying to have a sword fight with him
46:20 <whitenoise> very nice
47:05 <Avatar> you can rebuild your character only during level 1
47:13 <Avatar> as soon as you hit level 2, you're stuck with whatever you last used
47:30 <whitenoise> i've been looking over Fighter, Ninja, Rogue, Monk
47:48 <whitenoise> I think I don't like stealth combat much, after learning about it.
47:58 <whitenoise> unless I have Hide In Plain Sight.
48:03 <whitenoise> i.e., am a Shadowdancer.
48:13 <whitenoise> and Fighters are dumb, and I don't like to play dumb brutes.
48:34 <whitenoise> but I do like the sound of Monks--I like the sound of an archer-type, and casters are really neat.
48:41 <whitenoise> so I think I'm still sticking to my Wizard/Sorcerer guns
48:49 <whitenoise> until I have enough experience to build a nice Monk
49:21 <whitenoise> of course, the decision between Wizard and Sorcerer is a difficult one.
50:09 <Ballig> I think it can come down to whether you want utility or power
50:26 <Ballig> sorcerers get to cast enough spells that it makes them pretty powerful, they just dont' have a lot to choose from
52:16 <whitenoise> oh
52:25 <whitenoise> and when I'm doing the roll for my character's gp, do I just use the dicebot in here or what
52:40 <Ballig> you don't roll on gold
52:43 <Ballig> you start with 150 gold
52:46 <whitenoise> oh
52:53 <Ballig> (do you have the Pathfinder Society guide yet? you'll want it)
53:00 <Avatar> yeah you need the guide
53:00 <Wrothmonk> ok just noticed the chat. Read through it all. Saved me the time of asking what happened last night after I was forced to turn off my computer.
53:03 <Avatar> you don't roll on anything
53:04 <whitenoise> The one with like 6 chapters or whatever?
53:07 <whitenoise> about factions, etc
53:10 <Avatar> yeah
53:11 <whitenoise> I have that, yeah.
53:21 <whitenoise> I just read the Pathfinder reference a lot, for class info and whatnot.
53:28 <whitenoise> and in Pathfinder you do roll
53:35 <Ballig> yeah
53:51 <Ballig> pathfinder society doesn't let you roll on things like that, because there's no way for them to verify what you rolled
53:57 <whitenoise> right
54:00 <Ballig> people would just be pretending they rolled and giving themselves the maximum
54:12 <Ballig> you also don't roll on your hit points
54:20 <Ballig> Wrothmonk: ahh, so that's what happened to you
54:29 <Wrothmonk> Yeah sorry about that.
54:39 <Ballig> the final battle was sweet
54:45 <whitenoise> casters have 6hp, ninjas/etc have 8, fighters and stuff 10..
54:55 <Wrothmonk> i'm guessing I won't receive credit for the game?
54:56 <whitenoise> i have that table somewheres
54:58 <Ballig> they don't get the full amount
55:02 <Ballig> they do on the first level
55:06 <Ballig> after that they get half + 1
55:13 <whitenoise> oh
55:13 <Ballig> so a wizard gets 4hp on his second level
55:16 <Ballig> a fighter gets 6
55:17 <Ballig> etc
55:17 <whitenoise> so a level 2 fighter has 16?
55:21 <Ballig> yeah
55:26 <whitenoise> man
55:26 <Ballig> base, before constitution is added
55:31 <whitenoise> all these characters seem frail
55:34 <Ballig> Rabble is level 2 and has 22 hp
55:35 <whitenoise> at least at the beginning levels.
55:47 <whitenoise> you also got wailed on a couple good times
55:56 <whitenoise> you got down to 2/22 or so didn't you?
55:58 <Ballig> you can get another hp each level from your favoured class if you want to take that instead of an extra skill point
56:21 <Ballig> got down to 7/22 I think
56:28 <Ballig> took a massive critical to the face
56:43 <whitenoise> heh
56:51 <Wrothmonk> I'm guessing I won't receive credit for the game since I didn't complete it?
56:58 <Ballig> wizards and characters with low hp and low AC try to avoid getting up in the face of a wolverine
57:10 <whitenoise> and use Mage Armor!
57:13 <Ballig> a fighter with high AC and high hit points tries to keep those kinds fo things away from the more vulnerable party members
57:18 <Wrothmonk> I don't know… I got in front of a dinosaur. 
57:24 <Ballig> Wrothmonk: you'll receive credit, I believe
57:29 <Wrothmonk> Oh, cool.
57:30 <whitenoise> Wrothmonk: you mean Chomper
57:36 <whitenoise> heh heh
57:43 <whitenoise> the last thing I remember was Avatar saying
57:46 <Wrothmonk> Ok so it was a tiny dinosaur...
57:52 <whitenoise> "You are now in the 3rd act of the campaign"
57:54 <whitenoise> and then all went black
57:59 <Ballig> ha
58:04 <Wrothmonk> lol.
58:10 <Avatar> wrothmonk
58:12 <Ballig> the third act was the gorge, telling stories to the tribe, and then shooting the shadowlodge guy in the face
58:13 <Avatar> where did you brb to last night
58:20 <Ballig> he was forced to turn his computer off
58:23 <Ballig> I'm assuming parents woke up
58:26 <Avatar> lol
58:31 * Wrothmonk looks sheepish. 
58:35 <Ballig> sux2byoung
58:38 <Avatar> sux
58:44 <Ballig> I can play without pants, all night if I choose
58:48 <whitenoise> actually it rocks
58:52 <Avatar> I think all in all that makes last night quite epic
58:55 <whitenoise> when i was young, my parents didn't care.
58:58 <Wrothmonk> It has its pros and cons.
59:06 <whitenoise> so i just had infinite money, my own room, and all the time in the world
59:11 <Avatar> a fire drill, a snorer, parents making you turn the computer off, and a single shot ending the last encounter
59:18 <whitenoise> now i have my own place, a salaried job that demands overtime and a wife.
59:42 <Ballig> divorce your wife, quit your job, move back in with your parents, and play Pathfinder all day
59:45 <Wrothmonk> One heck of a night.
59:51 <whitenoise> Ballig: great idea
00:01 <Ballig> that's what Avatar did
00:03 <Ballig> sans the wife and parents
00:13 <Ballig> also not really quitting so much as his company going bankrupt
00:18 <whitenoise> lol
00:23 <Wrothmonk> That sucks.
02:31 <whitenoise> you know whats lame is that you can never play an Arcane Archer in PFS
02:36 <whitenoise> due to the +6 BAB requirement.
02:42 <whitenoise> for casters, those all hit at level 12.
03:11 <Wrothmonk> Wait what?
03:23 <whitenoise> well, I guess it would be possible.
03:57 <Wrothmonk> Yeah since rangers get BAB of +6 at level 6
04:10 <whitenoise> ohh
04:15 <whitenoise> is Arcane Archer meant for Rangers
04:22 <Wrothmonk> Yeah...
05:05 <Wrothmonk> "Many who seek to perfect the use of the bow sometimes pursue the path of the arcane archer."
06:31 <whitenoise> and arcane archers have unlimited arrows
09:02 <Mekkis> bard is a good path
09:16 <whitenoise> to arcane archer?
09:19 <Mekkis> yeah
09:22 <Mekkis> also synthesist
09:47 <whitenoise> oh, this raises the question
09:57 <whitenoise> where can i find information on the "other" races like tiefling and whatnot
10:05 <Mekkis> bestiary
10:12 <Mekkis> advanced races guide
10:17 <Mekkis> Blood of Fiends
10:21 <Mekkis> Blood of Angels
10:27 <Wrothmonk> Yeah I'm looking through the ranger specifications and you don't even need to multi-class to get arcane ranger. You can fulfill the requirements by level 6 I think.
10:27 <whitenoise> and that gives me what my bonuses are, etc, if i'm playing as one?
10:33 <Mekkis> Dragon Empires Primer
10:42 <Wrothmonk> I'm not very clear on how feats are gained though.
10:53 <Mekkis> every odd level
11:54 <whitenoise> heyyy
12:03 <whitenoise> bards don't get the spell failure for light armor and shields
12:19 <whitenoise> they might be the perfect blend of what i'm looking for and was trying to do with fighter
12:26 <Wrothmonk> Ok so yes, just being a ranger will give you the requirements to be an arcane ranger by level 6.
12:32 <whitenoise> and they have Perception, so I wouldn't be an oblivious dumbdumb head
12:46 * whitenoise looks more into Bard and Ranger
13:33 <Wrothmonk> arcane archer*
14:07 <Wrothmonk> maybe even level 5.
15:12 <whitenoise> Wrothmonk: Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells
15:17 <Steven> you cant get arcane archer strictly through ranger anyways
15:34 <whitenoise> that throw them out of arcane archer, since it has to be arcane spells
16:08 <whitenoise> dude
16:11 <whitenoise> why didn't I read about Bards before
16:19 <whitenoise> they sound like perfectness of what I was looking for.
17:03 <Wrothmonk> So I /do/ have to multi class? Fuck. Things are getting to complicated...
17:10 <Wrothmonk> I hate multi classing.
17:13 <Mekkis> no. You can play bard
17:29 <whitenoise> Wrothmonk: yeah, you're still level 1, right? so you can redesign your character
17:31 <whitenoise> and we can be bards togetha
18:10 <Wrothmonk> No. I refuse to multi class. Things get way to complicated for me then.
18:30 <Mekkis> so go bard 9 / arcane archer 3?
19:15 <Avatar> taking a prestige class = multiclassing
19:33 <Mekkis> debatable
19:50 <Avatar> debatable with semantics
19:59 <Wrothmonk> I don't really see it as that way.
20:05 <Mekkis> debatable with semantics is debatable nonetheless
20:17 <Avatar> then what's wrong with normal multiclassing if you don't mind a prestige class
20:37 <Mekkis> The condition formally known as XP penalty for multiclassing
20:51 <Avatar> which doesn't exist in pathfinder
21:03 <Mekkis> I never said it did
21:12 <Avatar> then it's a non issue
21:25 <Mekkis> it's Wrothmonk's issue because he's making it an issue
21:40 <Avatar> yeah, the question was for him, not for you
21:40 <Mekkis> Strictly speaking, you CAN go rogue/arcane archer
21:54 <whitenoise> ah, due to the rogue talents.
22:01 <Mekkis> it's just a stupid idea
22:20 <whitenoise> bard sounds sexy.
22:25 <whitenoise> i'm angry at all of you for not suggesting it to me.
22:34 <whitenoise> lol
22:42 <Avatar> have a look at the archaeologist archetype for bard
22:45 * Wrothmonk ragequits
22:48 <Mekkis> at me?
22:50 Wrothmonk has quit (Client exited)
23:14 <Avatar> geez louise
23:56 <Mekkis> you mean the bard who doesn't perform?
24:21 <Mekkis> aka "Look, I just made my bard a crappy fighter"
24:49 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
01:35 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: TBA || All topic times are AEST (UTC+10:00); set up your timezone on the site for local times! | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
01:35 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sun Aug 12 18:03:45 2012
01:35 <***> Buffer Playback...
01:35 <***> Playback Complete.
02:44 tashphones2 has quit (EOF from client)
02:57 tashphones has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
03:22 <Wrothmonk> Avatar, you there?
13:07 tashphones ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
19:56 ducknuckem ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
52:23 Wrothmonk has quit (Client exited)
56:52 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
57:11 Wrothmonk has quit (Client exited)
08:21 Wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
21:31 tashphones has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
24:25 tashphones ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
43:06 Wrothmonk has quit (Client exited)
44:08 spider21b ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
44:16 <spider21b> hi
47:45 spider21b has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
03:23 <MekkisScreen> hi
04:13 tashphones2 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
06:58 tashphones has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
21:40 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:24 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
23:55 <Steven> i almost got a tpk in first steps part 1 tonight
24:07 <Mekkis> good job
24:18 <Mekkis> I killed three of four the first time I ran it
24:36 <Steven> i took it back and let them redo some stuff
24:38 <Mekkis> colour spray + crit + sneak attack
24:41 <Steven> all brand new players to PFS
24:58 <Mekkis> this was a slot zero
25:18 <Steven> yeah color sprayed, got 2/5 of them
25:38 <Mekkis> do you consider it metagaming if a player casts See Invisibility whenever a map is taken out?
25:46 <Steven> yes
26:15 <Steven> like people who cast mage armor when they get to a new location...
26:43 <Steven> i just started having them walk through places...
27:13 <Brunius> Hah
27:19 <Brunius> You're walking through a street
27:20 Forevernade ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
27:23 <Brunius> I cast mage armour
27:24 <Brunius> Cool
27:35 <Brunius> Four hours later, you get to your destination
27:43 <Steven> YUP
28:06 <Steven> they stopped casting mage armor every time they came to a place.
28:35 <Mekkis> what about the "Set of the /alarm/, wait 90 seconds, then charge in" tactic?
32:45 <Steven> back
32:50 <Steven> and.... what is this tactic?
57:42 <whitenoise> heh heh
57:49 <whitenoise> the last thing I remember was Avatar saying
57:52 <Wrothmonk> Ok so it was a tiny dinosaur...
57:57 <whitenoise> "You are now in the 3rd act of the campaign"
57:59 <whitenoise> and then all went black
58:04 <Ballig> ha
58:10 <Wrothmonk> lol.
58:15 <Avatar> wrothmonk
58:17 <Ballig> the third act was the gorge, telling stories to the tribe, and then shooting the shadowlodge guy in the face
58:18 <Avatar> where did you brb to last night
58:25 <Ballig> he was forced to turn his computer off
58:28 <Ballig> I'm assuming parents woke up
58:32 <Avatar> lol
58:37 * Wrothmonk looks sheepish. 
58:40 <Ballig> sux2byoung
58:43 <Avatar> sux
58:50 <Ballig> I can play without pants, all night if I choose
58:53 <whitenoise> actually it rocks
58:57 <Avatar> I think all in all that makes last night quite epic
59:00 <whitenoise> when i was young, my parents didn't care.
59:03 <Wrothmonk> It has its pros and cons.
59:11 <whitenoise> so i just had infinite money, my own room, and all the time in the world
59:17 <Avatar> a fire drill, a snorer, parents making you turn the computer off, and a single shot ending the last encounter
59:23 <whitenoise> now i have my own place, a salaried job that demands overtime and a wife.
59:48 <Ballig> divorce your wife, quit your job, move back in with your parents, and play Pathfinder all day
59:50 <Wrothmonk> One heck of a night.
59:56 <whitenoise> Ballig: great idea
00:06 <Ballig> that's what Avatar did
00:08 <Ballig> sans the wife and parents
00:18 <Ballig> also not really quitting so much as his company going bankrupt
00:24 <whitenoise> lol
00:28 <Wrothmonk> That sucks.
02:36 <whitenoise> you know whats lame is that you can never play an Arcane Archer in PFS
02:42 <whitenoise> due to the +6 BAB requirement.
02:48 <whitenoise> for casters, those all hit at level 12.
03:17 <Wrothmonk> Wait what?
03:28 <whitenoise> well, I guess it would be possible.
04:02 <Wrothmonk> Yeah since rangers get BAB of +6 at level 6
04:15 <whitenoise> ohh
04:21 <whitenoise> is Arcane Archer meant for Rangers
04:27 <Wrothmonk> Yeah...
05:10 <Wrothmonk> "Many who seek to perfect the use of the bow sometimes pursue the path of the arcane archer."
06:36 <whitenoise> and arcane archers have unlimited arrows
09:08 <Mekkis> bard is a good path
09:21 <whitenoise> to arcane archer?
09:24 <Mekkis> yeah
09:28 <Mekkis> also synthesist
09:52 <whitenoise> oh, this raises the question
10:02 <whitenoise> where can i find information on the "other" races like tiefling and whatnot
10:11 <Mekkis> bestiary
10:17 <Mekkis> advanced races guide
10:23 <Mekkis> Blood of Fiends
10:26 <Mekkis> Blood of Angels
10:32 <Wrothmonk> Yeah I'm looking through the ranger specifications and you don't even need to multi-class to get arcane ranger. You can fulfill the requirements by level 6 I think.
10:33 <whitenoise> and that gives me what my bonuses are, etc, if i'm playing as one?
10:39 <Mekkis> Dragon Empires Primer
10:47 <Wrothmonk> I'm not very clear on how feats are gained though.
10:59 <Mekkis> every odd level
11:59 <whitenoise> heyyy
12:09 <whitenoise> bards don't get the spell failure for light armor and shields
12:25 <whitenoise> they might be the perfect blend of what i'm looking for and was trying to do with fighter
12:32 <Wrothmonk> Ok so yes, just being a ranger will give you the requirements to be an arcane ranger by level 6.
12:37 <whitenoise> and they have Perception, so I wouldn't be an oblivious dumbdumb head
12:51 * whitenoise looks more into Bard and Ranger
13:38 <Wrothmonk> arcane archer*
14:12 <Wrothmonk> maybe even level 5.
15:18 <whitenoise> Wrothmonk: Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells
15:22 <Steven> you cant get arcane archer strictly through ranger anyways
15:39 <whitenoise> that throw them out of arcane archer, since it has to be arcane spells
16:13 <whitenoise> dude
16:16 <whitenoise> why didn't I read about Bards before
16:25 <whitenoise> they sound like perfectness of what I was looking for.
17:08 <Wrothmonk> So I /do/ have to multi class? Fuck. Things are getting to complicated...
17:15 <Wrothmonk> I hate multi classing.
17:18 <Mekkis> no. You can play bard
17:34 <whitenoise> Wrothmonk: yeah, you're still level 1, right? so you can redesign your character
17:37 <whitenoise> and we can be bards togetha
18:15 <Wrothmonk> No. I refuse to multi class. Things get way to complicated for me then.
18:35 <Mekkis> so go bard 9 / arcane archer 3?
19:21 <Avatar> taking a prestige class = multiclassing
19:38 <Mekkis> debatable
19:55 <Avatar> debatable with semantics
20:05 <Wrothmonk> I don't really see it as that way.
20:11 <Mekkis> debatable with semantics is debatable nonetheless
20:22 <Avatar> then what's wrong with normal multiclassing if you don't mind a prestige class
20:43 <Mekkis> The condition formally known as XP penalty for multiclassing
20:57 <Avatar> which doesn't exist in pathfinder
21:09 <Mekkis> I never said it did
21:17 <Avatar> then it's a non issue
21:31 <Mekkis> it's Wrothmonk's issue because he's making it an issue
21:45 <Avatar> yeah, the question was for him, not for you
21:46 <Mekkis> Strictly speaking, you CAN go rogue/arcane archer
21:59 <whitenoise> ah, due to the rogue talents.
22:07 <Mekkis> it's just a stupid idea
22:25 <whitenoise> bard sounds sexy.
22:30 <whitenoise> i'm angry at all of you for not suggesting it to me.
22:39 <whitenoise> lol
22:47 <Avatar> have a look at the archaeologist archetype for bard
22:50 * Wrothmonk ragequits
22:54 <Mekkis> at me?
23:20 <Avatar> geez louise
24:02 <Mekkis> you mean the bard who doesn't perform?
24:27 <Mekkis> aka "Look, I just made my bard a crappy fighter"
29:55 <whitenoise> i have been sitting here beating my brain around
29:56 <whitenoise> being like
30:11 <whitenoise> "how can i do either a rogue or a ninja, or a monk/sorc, or a fighter/wiz..."
30:15 <whitenoise> and then I look at Bard and I'm like
30:22 <whitenoise> "Oh, that's what a *Bard* is."
30:46 <whitenoise> I had even ventured into like "I'll use a longsword and light armor."
30:51 <whitenoise> and again, what a bard is.
30:54 <whitenoise> with a longbow.
31:20 <whitenoise> so I'm feeling like a Half-Elf, with a longbow and a rapier, leather armor
31:24 <whitenoise> Bard.
31:27 <whitenoise> total sweetness.
31:34 <whitenoise> gotta figure out the stats and faction.
32:32 <Wrothmonk> Ok so what exactly prevents a character who is just a ranger from becoming an arcane ranger.
34:40 <Alfwyn> arcane archer?
34:52 <Wrothmonk> yes.
35:00 <Alfwyn> archer not ranger
35:04 * Wrothmonk thumps head yet again.
35:35 <whitenoise> lol
35:41 <whitenoise> ranger spells are divine, not arcane
35:44 <whitenoise> methinks that is the difference
35:56 <Alfwyn> yepp, that's the difference rule wise
35:56 <Wrothmonk> Ok, where does it say that.
36:16 <Alfwyn> ranger has no archane spell failure chance
36:48 <Alfwyn> Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, 
36:56 <Alfwyn> (from ore rule book)
37:04 <whitenoise> Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the ranger spell list presented in Spell Lists. A ranger must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
37:07 <whitenoise> Pathfinder rule book
38:34 <Wrothmonk> ok so you can only cast arcane spells if your class allows it correct?
38:49 <whitenoise> aye
39:01 <whitenoise> every class that has spells, their spells are either arcane or divine
39:03 <whitenoise> to my understanding
39:23 <whitenoise> wiz, sorc, bard are arcane and cleric and ranger are divine
42:25 <whitenoise> experienced guys:
42:32 <whitenoise> bards are proficient with shortbow..
42:39 <whitenoise> is it worth taking Elf for a Bard just to get Longbow proficiency?
43:00 <Steven> cleric, inquisitor, oracle, druid, ranger, paladin
43:01 <whitenoise> or, as was my experience, it's pretty rare to have anything 100-110 ft away from you
44:34 <Wrothmonk> ok my character is still level one, so I can re-work anything and add a class correct? I've decided I will multi class.
45:22 <Hydrazine> Can't ADD a class until level 2.
45:47 <Hydrazine> your total levels and levels of classes are the same thing.
46:11 <Hydrazine> so a level 1 fighter/level 1 wizard has to be a level 2 pathfinder.
46:17 <Alfwyn> pf did away with the weird 0.5/0.5 class thing for first lvlv chars
46:29 <Wrothmonk> Wait…. I'm confused.
46:50 <Hydrazine> think of it this way. every time you level up, you pick a class.
47:00 <Hydrazine> you start at level 1. thats 1 level of 1 class.
47:05 <Wrothmonk> Can I or can I not change my current character, so that he is multi classed?
47:21 <Alfwyn> yeah, but 3.x had some half level thing if you wanted to multiclass from the start
47:35 <Alfwyn> but pf has not
47:44 <Hydrazine> you can change him to a different class.
47:52 <Hydrazine> but you have to start as a level 1 something.
48:02 <Hydrazine> which means you cannot start your character multiclassed.
48:06 <Wrothmonk> ok.
48:10 <Hydrazine> level 2, you can pick a different class, and there you go.
49:23 <Wrothmonk> I can still re-work my current stats in preparation for level 2 when I start multi classing though correct?
49:43 <Hydrazine> Sure.
49:51 <Hydrazine> What're you multiclassing to?
50:04 <Wrothmonk> Ranger/sorcerer
51:42 <***> Buffer Playback...
51:43 <***> Playback Complete.
51:59 <Wrothmonk> Actually looking at the sorcerer class I may not need to change my stats...
52:02 <Steven> he went-dropped one, the other three went dropping him to -10 at which point he dropped down, his party members went
52:08 <Steven> no one healed him
52:15 <Steven> next turn, he fails to stablize and dies
54:11 <Avatar> oh, they all won initiative?
54:29 <Avatar> after him
54:36 <Steven> yeah
54:55 <Avatar> did they all have to gang up on him
55:28 <Hydrazine> there you go then.
55:35 <Hydrazine> don't forget arcane failure chance.
55:40 <Steven> moral dictated they attack the closest enemy, setting up flanking whenever possible
56:06 <Ballig> were they hungry?
56:21 <Wrothmonk> Theres a separate fail chance for arcane spells?
56:30 <Steven> they were thieves... suppose they were hungry for loot
56:36 <Alfwyn> if you wear armor, yes
57:03 <Avatar> what's moral, is that tactics
57:05 <Wrothmonk> isn't that overall spell failure chance? Divine and arcane spells?
57:12 <Steven> yeah, tactics/moral
57:16 <Steven> its what we call it up here
57:22 <Alfwyn> no, divine spells don't suffer from it
57:43 <Wrothmonk> ah ok.
58:01 <Wrothmonk> Yeah I was just looking for the section of the rule book about arcane spell failure.
58:02 <Hydrazine> divine spells are powered by faith, not fancy hand wiggling.
58:14 <Wrothmonk> lol, true
58:15 <Ballig> morale
58:19 <Hydrazine> clerics and paladins are well known for wearing medium and heavy armor.
58:22 <Steven> yeah thats the one
59:21 <Wrothmonk> ok it shows a percentage for a arcane spell failure chance, how exactly does that factor in to die rolls?
59:53 <Alfwyn> you just roll a d100 when casting a spell
00:14 <Wrothmonk> and if its 15 or under it fails I'm guessing?
00:24 <Alfwyn> yepp
00:35 <Wrothmonk> for say a 15% failure chance.
00:37 <Alfwyn> (if you have a 15% failure armor)
01:05 <Wrothmonk> ah ok. so not that bad with my current armor.
02:59 <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones
05:58 <Wrothmonk> ok I believe this is the last question. What exactly does flat footed mean?
06:21 <Hydrazine> It means you are caught unprepared.
06:44 <Hydrazine> Lets say your hiding in a tree and shoot some guy who has no idea you're even there. you use flatfooted AC, which is likely much lower.
06:44 <Alfwyn> before you act for the first time in combat, you are considered flat footed
07:50 <Wrothmonk> ok so if a monster rolled a higher initiative than you, and it decides to attack you the first round of combat, you are considered flat footed?
07:54 <Steven> boobies!
08:05 <Hydrazine> yes.
08:10 * Wrothmonk stares at Steven "Wut."
09:12 <Steven> you heard me
09:26 <Wrothmonk> Why did you suddenly shout boobies?
09:45 <Steven> why wouldnt i?
09:51 <Wrothmonk> ...
10:12 <Wrothmonk> Ooooook…..
10:32 <Steven> better believe it....
10:40 <whitenoise> hm
10:47 <whitenoise> so Bard can either go Arcane Archer or Dragon Disciple
11:07 Ballig has quit (Quit: )
11:13 dicebot has quit (EOF from client)
11:49 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
13:25 Ballig ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
13:37 <Hydrazine> Or just... be a bard.
13:49 <Hydrazine> No shame in that.
15:38 <Wrothmonk> So am I going to be taking any penalties on the chronicle sheet from last night's game since I had to leave before it was over?
37:54 <Avatar> what does that mean
09:21 <Ballig> what does what mean
09:48 <snypt> you know
12:41 <Brunius> I think he means how is the fluff going to change to justify there suddenly being 3 more races commonly around
18:42 <Avatar> that seems like a bit of a leap
18:50 <Avatar> how do you know he means that
18:54 <Brunius> I don't.
19:01 <Brunius> Can you see a better explanation?
19:19 <Avatar> maybe he meant wonder when they are going to introduce 3 new ones
19:23 <Avatar> like after these 3 
19:48 <Avatar> [19:02] <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones
20:11 <Brunius> I like how the bank has sent me a piece of paper just to say "Hey, nothing happened in the last two months"
20:39 <Brunius>  And I got interest thrice on my 33c!
21:02 <Avatar> nice 1
21:17 <Avatar> not worth the paper it's printed on by the sounds
21:31 <Brunius> www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ntZwU39SjWI#t=1h7m15s
21:33 <Avatar> people at work are really shocked by my hate of paper
21:49 <Avatar> which they only saw when I noticed they print every single thing out just because
21:53 <Brunius> Why do you hate paper
22:07 <Avatar> it's clutter you can't find
22:13 <Avatar> better to scan and put it in a folder
22:42 <Brunius> While computers are better for some things, I find it really hard to read stuff on a computer
23:02 <Brunius> I'm printing out every datasheet for components of this robot I'm building
23:12 <Brunius> Simple because I can't read it properly on a computer
23:56 <Brunius> Simply even
32:12 <Avatar> yeah we're talking word documents man
32:20 <Avatar> not robot components
34:11 <Brunius> How long
34:47 <Avatar> one or two pages
34:53 <Avatar> routinely
34:55 <Brunius> Yeah, that is rather wasteful
35:25 <Brunius> Any more than three of actual reading (i.e. not half graphs) I usually print
39:14 <Avatar> they will print them and not even read them
39:23 <Avatar> they will print them and put them in a filing cabinet
39:30 <Brunius> dafuq
39:35 <Avatar> over and over and over and over and over again
39:40 <Brunius> Do they delete the file afterwards?
39:44 <Avatar> no
39:56 <Brunius> Have you explained the concept of a backup to them
40:02 <Avatar> they do it just to have a paper copy
40:13 <Avatar> most of my training stuff was in paper
40:23 <Avatar> I had to drill it into them to send me softcopies
40:30 <Avatar> or they'd print out a PDF they had instead of sending it to me
40:36 <Avatar> even after I said just send it to me
42:33 <Brunius> What, they put it in an envelope and sent it to you
45:21 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
46:05 <Steven> alright... well that sucked....
46:06 <Brunius> Steven
46:09 <Steven> completely owned at sc2
46:17 <Brunius> What does [19:02:56] <Steven> since they bout to open up 3 new races, wonder what they are going to introduce 3 new ones mean
46:26 <Steven> so... decided to come back
46:33 <Avatar> yeah brunius and I have a bet
46:40 <Brunius> There was no bet
46:46 <Avatar> let's make it interesting
46:56 <Brunius> I don't have anything to bet
46:58 <Steven> they are opening up 3 races that everyone can play, im wondering if they will introduce 3 'new' races
47:10 <Avatar> I know you're too young, but you've got to live a little
47:11 <Ballig> Avatar: are they over 40?
47:20 <Avatar> yeah, some of them
47:23 <Ballig> I've found that people over 40 will often print emails to read them
47:27 <Ballig> and then throw the email away
47:30 <Avatar> ironically, the oldest one is really technically minded
47:34 <Brunius> You mean as boons?
47:36 <Avatar> she seemed like the IT person before I got there
47:43 <Steven> yes as boons
49:00 <MekkisScreen> if you have reach and combat reflexes, your AOO can be considered an action in combat
49:11 <MekkisScreen> so you stop being flat-footed
59:35 <Ballig> ogres
01:00 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
05:34 <Avatar> I'm actually doing most of the throwing away
05:43 <Avatar> they print out the PDF, I scan it, and throw it away
19:24 <Brunius> Just ask them if they have a digital copy
19:31 <Brunius> Eventually they'll just give you the digital copy
20:04 <Brunius> Skip the hard copy altogether
29:09 <Avatar> no I do
29:14 <Avatar> and they say yeah and print it out
29:33 <Avatar> they have the print button on speed dial
29:39 <Avatar> or the ribbon or whateveri t's called these days
29:40 <Brunius> ...
36:49 bredanis ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
37:16 <Avatar> bredanis roll up a character !!
37:24 <bredanis> roll up your face
37:30 <Avatar> well that's impolite
37:35 <Avatar> snypt that must be you
37:35 snypt has quit (austnet.org!NickOP (Kill requested by bredanis))
37:39 bredanis is now known as snypt
37:49 <snypt> ja
37:55 <Avatar> ye
38:01 <Brunius> David Bowie is amazing
38:07 <snypt> had to switch from wifi to cable its download time
38:35 <snypt> arent you like 12 Brunius? how do u know who bowie it?
38:53 <snypt> is**
42:07 <Brunius> I'm 15 man
42:27 <Brunius> I've known of Bowie since 11-12...
42:34 <Brunius> Ballig keeps telling people I'm 13
42:36 <Avatar> I don't like bowie
42:42 <Brunius> Not sure how you got the idea I was 12
43:04 <Avatar> I bullshit as much as ballig is trustworthy
43:08 <Ballig> Bowie has a big package
43:10 <Brunius> anyway, night folks
43:17 <Avatar> is that how it goes
43:18 <Avatar> I forget
43:22 <Brunius> I think it is
43:26 <Brunius> Got inverted once
53:22 tashphones ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
57:52 Avatar has quit (*.net *.split)
57:52 Forevernade has quit (*.net *.split)
57:52 Ballig has quit (*.net *.split)
57:52 Brunius has quit (*.net *.split)
57:52 Hydrazine has quit (*.net *.split)
57:52 snypt has quit (*.net *.split)
58:05 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 snypt ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 Ballig ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 Avatar ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 Hydrazine ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 Forevernade ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:05 scoutlan.qld.au.austnet.org gives channel operator status to Avatar
03:35 Panda ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
03:38 kapow has quit (*.net *.split)
03:38 ducknuckem has quit (*.net *.split)
03:38 tashphones has quit (*.net *.split)
03:42 jovial_fellow ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
03:43 tashphones2 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
07:07 Mekkis sets mode -i Mekkis
07:07 Mekkis sets mode -r Mekkis
07:07 Mekkis sets mode -w Mekkis
07:07 Mekkis sets mode -x Mekkis
07:13 Mekkis_ sets mode +w Mekkis_
07:13 Mekkis_ sets mode +i Mekkis_
07:13 Mekkis_ sets mode +R Mekkis_
07:13 waia.wa.au.austnet.org sets mode +x Mekkis_
07:42 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sun Aug 12 18:03:40 2012
07:53 Mekkis_x200 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
08:14 MekkisScreen ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
10:30 diebot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
39:47 <***> Buffer Playback...
39:47 <***> Playback Complete.
54:22 whitenoise ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
Search this day's buffer: