// #d&d — 2012-08-04
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00:00:08 <Mort-> well that cheliax lawful two shoes
00:00:14 <Mort-> is a pathfinder
00:04:12 <ducknuckem> So do you guys incorporate the 3.5 mythologies into pathfinder?
00:07:57 <Ballig> depends on the campaign being played
00:08:04 <ducknuckem> Ahkay.
00:08:13 <Ballig> Pathfinder Society is played most often in here at the moment because it's fairly well suited to online play - people don't have to commit beyond what they can or want to
00:08:23 <Ballig> Pathfinder Society is the organised play version of Pathfinder, if you aren't familiar with it
00:09:03 <ducknuckem> I'll check it out.
00:19:51 <Mekkis> do outsiders still get automatic proficiencies?
00:25:16 <Mekkis> so. Deceased's companion's called Defunct
00:30:08 <Mort-> I dont know
00:38:03 <Mekkis> Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
00:38:17 <Mekkis> oh no
00:38:52 <Mekkis> too much cheese potential
00:42:51 <Mort-> :p
00:42:55 <Mort-> theres never too much cheese
00:42:57 <Mort-> anwyay off to bed
00:43:00 * Mort- hugs mekkis
00:43:01 Mort- has quit (Quit: )
01:50:32 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
03:23:02 ducknuckem has quit (Quit: For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. - Carl Sagan)
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05:05:39 Hydrazine has quit (EOF from client)
07:36:25 Hydrazine ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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10:14:30 ducknuckem ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
10:15:04 <ducknuckem> Morning all.
10:16:20 <Brunius> sup
10:17:57 <ducknuckem> Notalot, just coffeeing it up.
10:20:37 <Mekkis> morning
10:20:43 <Mekkis> are you running first steps, Brunius?
10:20:50 <Brunius> Tomorrow
10:20:53 <Brunius> 1pm
10:21:03 <Mekkis> fun fun fun
10:26:00 <Avatar> fun fun fun fun fun
10:26:08 <Brunius> fun fun fun fun fun fun fun
10:26:16 <Avatar> fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun fun
10:30:15 <ducknuckem> That's too much fun.
10:30:21 <Brunius> Awww
10:30:26 <Brunius> You're no fun
10:30:34 <Avatar> no I can appreciate that
10:30:37 <Avatar> there is a certain balance
10:30:41 <Mekkis> stop having fun guys!
10:30:47 <Panda> :O
10:30:52 <Avatar> there's a certain balance
10:31:32 <Avatar> these salads I get
10:31:38 <Avatar> come with this tiny tiny pack of dressing
10:31:45 <Avatar> I don't know how you're meant to enjoy the salad with so little
10:31:56 <Avatar> I use half a bottle of dressing with each pack
10:32:03 <Mekkis> don't you just make your own dressing?
10:32:11 <ducknuckem> You eat salad?
10:32:24 <Avatar> I am a caesar salad junkie
10:32:31 <Avatar> I don't make my own anything
10:33:09 <ducknuckem> I don't mind caeser salads.
10:33:24 <ducknuckem> But I much prefer a good burger.
10:33:49 <Avatar> bread doesn't go down very well for me
10:33:57 <ducknuckem> Damn, that sucks.
10:35:01 <Brunius> Yay for map making!
10:35:10 <Avatar> what kind of map making
10:35:16 <Brunius> Fantasy map making!
10:35:21 <Brunius> I've gotta do it for school
10:35:28 <Brunius> I have made 3D maps before though
10:35:34 <Avatar> show us
10:35:40 <Brunius> 'snot finished
10:36:18 <Brunius> I could send you the 183mb file if you want
10:36:45 <Avatar> what are you doing it in
10:36:52 <Brunius> GIMP
10:37:32 <Avatar> just show us a shrunken down version
10:40:06 <Brunius> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22217817/Avmap.jpg
10:40:10 <Brunius> Black is going to be forests
10:40:15 <Brunius> Sea coloration isn't finished yet
10:44:48 <Brunius> Oh god I think I just crashed GIMP
10:45:06 <ducknuckem> Looks like there was something big that went down on the west of the island.
10:45:17 <Avatar> looks pretty sweet
10:45:28 <Avatar> yeah it's like a perfect circle
10:45:32 <Avatar> but it's not done yet
11:07:01 <Mekkis> "Greetings pathfinders. I am Deceased, and the invisible telepathic leopard behind you is my companion, Defunct."
11:07:13 <Brunius> ha
11:07:40 <Hydrazine> G'day.
11:10:02 <ducknuckem> Howdeh!
11:10:51 <Hydrazine> Oh shit, more americans!
11:11:01 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
11:11:03 <ducknuckem> Yeehaw!
11:11:16 <ducknuckem> Let's go hang someone!
11:11:20 <Hydrazine> Hey,.
11:11:22 <Hydrazine> We quit that.
11:11:23 <ducknuckem> Who doesn't look like us!
11:11:28 <Hydrazine> Like, last year.
11:11:31 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
11:11:53 <Hydrazine> How you doin?
11:11:57 <ducknuckem> When was it that wives stop being property of husbands? Like 20 years ago or something?
11:12:05 <ducknuckem> Yeh, I am doing great thanks.
11:12:07 <Hydrazine> You some new guy around here or what? Have we properly hazed you yet?
11:12:08 <ducknuckem> How about yourself?
11:12:16 <ducknuckem> Yeh, I only came in lastnight.
11:12:19 <ducknuckem> Hazed?
11:12:23 <Hydrazine> Damn n00bs.
11:12:28 <Hydrazine> Yeah, hazing.
11:12:47 <Hydrazine> You know, treating the new guys like shit. Its tradition!
11:14:56 <ducknuckem> Ah.
11:15:05 <ducknuckem> I've already copped that in real life d&d
11:15:11 <ducknuckem> It's a real hard club to get into.
11:15:34 <ducknuckem> "Yeh we want more players, but we're going to be complete bastards to you."
11:15:48 <Hydrazine> Hazing's pretty universal. Vicious cycle, really.
11:16:05 <Hydrazine> So what do you play?
11:20:25 <ducknuckem> Nothing at the moment. I used to play 3.5
11:20:35 <Hydrazine> I used to play 3.5 too.
11:20:45 <Brunius> Wow, me too
11:20:57 <Hydrazine> I play some pathfinder now. After I got used to it, I think most of the changes are in a good direction.
11:23:17 <Hydrazine> They added in some spice to the really boring class progression lines.
11:23:20 <Hydrazine> Like fighters, for example.
11:25:14 <ducknuckem> I've got a copy, but haven't looked at it in a while.
11:25:35 <Hydrazine> Remember fighters in 3.5? Feats. Just alot of feats. Pretty much it.
11:25:51 <ducknuckem> I didn't mind that.
11:26:01 <Hydrazine> Now, hey, you make it 7 levels as a fighter, you can move full speed in full plate now. Cheers.
11:26:10 <ducknuckem> I figured it was a good thing, a wide range of customisation.
11:26:20 <Hydrazine> And you still get all the feats.
11:26:33 <Hydrazine> And extra attack bonus for your favorite weapon group.
11:26:39 <ducknuckem> Cool.
11:26:50 <ducknuckem> I like the universalist school for wizards.
11:26:52 <Hydrazine> Things like that.
11:26:58 <ducknuckem> Throwing swords around like boomerangs.
11:27:02 <Hydrazine> Heh.
11:27:19 <Hydrazine> Lately I just want to play more Exalted.
11:28:33 <ducknuckem> Exalted?
11:29:04 <Hydrazine> Totally different rule system, but I like it.
11:30:11 <ducknuckem> Ahkay.
11:31:14 <ducknuckem> Wow, I just got grilled by an academic for saying that I don't know whether or not a god exists.
11:31:36 <ducknuckem> Atheists and theists hate me equally.
11:32:05 <Hydrazine> Eh.
11:32:15 <Brunius> what
11:32:15 <Hydrazine> I try not to force my opinions on religion around.
11:32:24 <Brunius> why would they grill you for that
11:32:39 <ducknuckem> Usually because they think they are right.
11:32:45 <Hydrazine> I think its pretty harmless in moderation. You can believe whatever you want.
11:33:10 <Hydrazine> Problem is, religion has this trick where it ends up being about killing people.
11:33:11 <ducknuckem> It's belligerence to ask someone what they believe and then tell them they are wrong.
11:33:15 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
11:33:34 <ducknuckem> I think that killing is inherent to human nature, it's just particularly popular with religion.
11:34:09 <Hydrazine> I think its just a handily available excuse when you feel like killing people and can't quite produce a better reason.
11:35:11 <ducknuckem> Well most of it is devired from fear. People don't want to be wrong and some people are so afraid of being wrong that they will oppress other opinions.
11:35:49 <Brunius> wtf
11:35:54 <ducknuckem> Devired Heheh, Derived.
11:35:55 <Brunius> oreo decreased the amount of cream
11:36:05 <ducknuckem> What's the world coming to!?
11:36:20 <Brunius> I know man
11:36:24 <Brunius> That was like all I lived for
11:36:35 <Hydrazine> I think I prefer the pantheon sort of religion to the monotheism. Atleast they're more flexible about dealing with others.
11:37:28 <Hydrazine> Seems like most of the one god religions are sticklers for the whole 'believing in some other god is a terrible thing to do' line.
11:38:20 <ducknuckem> I don't get it though. If you believe someone is going to hell for not believing in your god, why would you kill them?
11:38:55 <Hydrazine> Thats a good part of what leads me to the 'handy excuse for killing' thought.
11:40:17 <Hydrazine> I think religion should be treated with the same respect as what you do in your own bedroom.
11:40:38 <Hydrazine> Which is not anyone else's damn business. Unless they're in your bedroom too.
11:40:46 <ducknuckem> I have no respect for religious institution, except for their business success.
11:41:54 <Hydrazine> Pretty successful business overall. No signs of going obsolete.
11:42:46 <ducknuckem> Well, when you remove the ethics from business ethics, you're going to do well.
11:42:55 <Brunius> I cleverly managed to leave my CoW sheet at school
11:42:58 <Brunius> Could you photograph yours and send it to me?
11:43:01 <Brunius> Sigh
11:43:06 <Hydrazine> My cow sheet?
11:43:06 <Brunius> Ctrl+C doesn't work very well
11:43:14 <Brunius> Craft of Writing
11:43:23 <Brunius> Pseudo-english that doesn't actually count for anything
11:43:24 <Hydrazine> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CXFfl9luHPM/TV-Os6opQfI/AAAAAAAAA2E/oCgrgvWqzrY/s1600/cow.jpg
11:43:59 <Hydrazine> Sorry, I only got the one cow sheet.
11:45:41 <Hydrazine> I particularly have problems with the class of religious zealot that considers every word of the holy book to be a verbatim account of the actual happenings of the world.
11:46:42 <Hydrazine> Who resolutely deny even the possibility of hyperbole, parable, misunderstanding, bad translation, or editing.
11:48:26 <Mekkis> guess who wrote this paragraph:
11:48:35 <Brunius> Bush
11:48:53 <Brunius> (Wait, which paragraph)
11:50:12 <Mekkis> Before Combat {NPC} casts false life, greater magic weapon (unarmed strike), mage armor, overland flight, and
11:50:12 <Mekkis> protection from arrows on himself at the start of each day. When an alarm spell triggers, {NPC} casts spells on himself in this order: protection from energy (fire), resist energy (electricity), heroism, stoneskin, blur, alter self, mirror image, owl's wisdom, expeditious retreat, protection from good, shield, displacement, haste, and transformation. (All are included in his statistics.)
11:50:28 <Brunius> Killer Matt?
11:50:40 <Mekkis> ja
11:50:53 <ducknuckem> Well, that's why they are a zealout. The only people who like zealouts are other zealouts of a like mind.
11:51:53 <Hydrazine> They can be fun to talk to though.
11:52:09 <ducknuckem> haven't noticed that yet.
11:53:11 <Mekkis> zealout?
11:53:12 <ducknuckem> It's like last night, I was talking to an athiest friend of mine about faith. Everytime I said faith, he assumed I was talking about a deity, even though I said about 12 times that I was not talking about faith in a deity, just faith in general.
11:53:27 <ducknuckem> Or Zealot. I can't remember how it's spelled.
11:54:13 <Hydrazine> Athiests can be zealots too!
11:54:40 <ducknuckem> Oh shit yeh.
11:54:49 <ducknuckem> And that's just as bad as religious zealots.
11:54:57 <ducknuckem> Stupidity doesn't discriminate.
11:56:32 <Hydrazine> Truth.
11:56:50 <Hydrazine> I think I like the new guy. Maybe we won't have to beat him with soap after all.
11:57:07 <ducknuckem> Well, thank you.
11:58:08 <Avatar> your name is cool
11:58:23 <ducknuckem> It was my original nickname for gaming.
11:59:17 <ducknuckem> I'm sure you can guess the game I was playing.
11:59:24 <Brunius> Quake?
11:59:36 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
12:00:14 <Ballig> Brunius: idiot
12:00:15 <ducknuckem> I loved quake, but no longer.
12:00:16 <Ballig> it was duck hunt
12:00:19 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
12:00:31 <ducknuckem> I loved duckhunt aswell.
12:02:11 <Avatar> I never understood what anyone liked about quak
12:02:13 <Avatar> quake*
12:02:33 <Ballig> the original Quake had better gameplay than most FPS games out at the time
12:02:45 <ducknuckem> It was a fast, competative arcade game.
12:02:47 <Avatar> how did it have better gameplay
12:02:48 <Ballig> and better multiplayer too
12:02:56 <Avatar> I was playing duke3d at the time and thought it was superior
12:03:03 <Ballig> did duke3d have multiplayer
12:03:04 <ducknuckem> I found my adrenaline would go through the roof when playing deathmatch with my mates.
12:03:07 <Avatar> yeah
12:03:07 <ducknuckem> Yeh, it did.
12:03:57 <Avatar> Ballig: do you know kerlz
12:04:40 <Ballig> is that a person
12:04:43 <Avatar> yeah
12:04:46 <Ballig> nope
12:04:47 <Avatar> he plays with us sometimes
12:04:56 <Ballig> I think you made him up
12:05:03 <Avatar> I have screenshots of when we used to play duke3d and I was kicking his ass with scores like 50 to 1
12:05:11 <Avatar> I didn't make him up he is a real person
12:05:25 <Ballig> pretty sure you've never beat anyone at an FPS ever
12:05:29 <Avatar> he plays tf2 today
12:05:41 <Avatar> I have, I have screenshots
12:05:43 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
12:05:55 <Ballig> photoshopped I bet
12:06:02 <Steven> totaly was
12:06:03 <Avatar> no they are THE REAL DEAL
12:06:04 <Hydrazine> What he doesn't tell you, is that the guy he beat is quadraplegic.
12:06:09 <ducknuckem> Heheh.
12:06:13 <Avatar> he's not quadraplegic
12:06:22 <Avatar> he can walk and use his hands and play duke3d
12:06:24 <Hydrazine> He could just be a derp.
12:06:32 <Hydrazine> I bet you couldn't beat my sister at call of duty.
12:06:34 <Avatar> HE'S NOT A DERP
12:06:38 <Ballig> I used to talk to a quadraplegic on here
12:06:40 <Steven> totaly a derp
12:06:46 <Avatar> who was that
12:06:49 <Avatar> lucianus
12:06:51 <Ballig> not in this channel
12:06:52 <Steven> what we talkin bout?
12:06:55 <Ballig> this was like 10 years ago
12:07:04 <Avatar> we're talking about this guy named lucianus who was a quadraplegic
12:07:14 <Steven> no i mean what was photoshopped?
12:07:22 <Hydrazine> Avatar winning.
12:07:23 <Avatar> his character sheets
12:07:26 <Ballig> he used one of those screen-based keyboards and a straw that he would have to blow to click on the screen
12:07:30 <Ballig> he typed really fast for what he had to work with
12:07:51 <Steven> yeah... avatar never won anything
12:07:57 <Ballig> !findchar Jerus
12:07:59 <Steven> totaly photoshopped
12:08:00 <diebot> Ballig, Character: Jerus, number: 352( http://www.pfrpg.com.au/viewchar.php5?char=352 )
12:08:25 <Hydrazine> I should take him down, huh?
12:08:30 <Ballig> why
12:08:31 <Ballig> did he die
12:08:39 <Hydrazine> You're a bit behind.
12:08:43 <Ballig> am I
12:08:44 <Ballig> what happened
12:08:47 <Steven> I'm gonna play me a module tomorrows
12:09:12 <Avatar> we don't bother removing dead characters
12:09:21 <Avatar> they get memorial status
12:09:22 <Ballig> yeah, I prefer if they stay up
12:09:30 <Ballig> character sheets actually bring some traffic to the site
12:09:36 <Avatar> really
12:09:38 <Hydrazine> Jerus died back in June.
12:09:50 <Ballig> a lot of keywords for D&D that I could never add to a real page
12:10:07 <Avatar> like azlanti
12:10:20 <Avatar> or thassilonian
12:10:28 <Steven> stupid dog.... jumped up on my lap and closed my computer
12:10:41 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
12:10:45 <ducknuckem> Can you still play as a mystic theurge in Pathfinder?
12:10:46 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
12:10:57 <Ballig> is that the wizard/cleric combination
12:11:00 <Hydrazine> I think its still in.
12:11:00 <Ballig> pretty sure that exists
12:11:03 <Avatar> yeah you can
12:11:06 <Avatar> myra has one
12:11:24 <ducknuckem> Cool.
12:11:25 <Ballig> they're not bad, just require a bit of planning
12:11:29 <Ballig> Hydrazine: which scenario was that in?
12:11:38 <Hydrazine> He got eaten by a dire croc, Ballig. Who made like 6 saves in a row. Nobody could do anything to him.
12:11:47 <Hydrazine> It was a module with the google groups guys.
12:12:03 <Ballig> ahh
12:12:09 <Ballig> that'll learn you
12:12:22 <Ballig> nah not really, that sucks :p
12:12:25 <Hydrazine> Learn me what exactly?
12:12:33 <Ballig> I was being facetious
12:12:54 <Avatar> you fascist
12:12:59 <Hydrazine> My min/maxed beefcake fighter died in a straight up fight, just because the DM rolled high.
12:13:00 <Ballig> facetist
12:14:35 <Mekkis> servers you right for playing a min/maxed fighter
12:14:37 <Ballig> have any of you used the PDF character sheet
12:14:56 <Hydrazine> How so, Mekkis?
12:14:57 <Ballig> Mekkis: or serves him right for not min-maxing harder!
12:15:12 <Hydrazine> Shoulda played a synthesist.
12:15:18 <Avatar> add a level of synthesist
12:15:26 <Hydrazine> Beat you to it, HA!
12:15:36 <Ballig> when a min-maxed character misses out on prestige because all their skills are negative, I don't feel so bad because that's the exchange they make
12:15:38 <Avatar> find some rules that kind of conflict just right to give you top notch stats and abilitiez
12:15:41 <Ballig> dying in combat isn't really a "serves you right" situation though
12:15:51 <Mekkis> you get an overinflated impression of your abilities :S
12:16:06 <Ballig> it's not overinflated if their abilities are above average
12:16:32 <Mekkis> I think Darkwhite said it best: Playing a 20 means that you'll blitz all the encounters, until you die a horrible death
12:16:51 <Ballig> and playing anything less means you wont' blitz all the encounters, until you die a horrible death
12:17:37 <Hydrazine> Please go on and tell me how playing a less min/maxed fighter would've kept Jerus alive against the croc, Mekkis.
12:17:51 <Mekkis> I don't know what croc you're referring to
12:18:11 <Ballig> it wouldn't, it's just a situation elitists use to justify their criticism
12:18:14 <Ballig> even if it's not relevant
12:18:38 <Hydrazine> http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/crocodile/dire-crocodile
12:18:39 <Hydrazine> That croc.
12:18:59 <Ballig> the argument for not playing a min-maxed character is that it's not a challenge and removing the challenge removes the fun for most people, including other people you're playing with
12:19:08 <Ballig> the argument certainly isn't "you will eventually die", because that's the case for any character
12:19:58 <Hydrazine> I think that arguement's bull anyway.
12:20:05 <ducknuckem> Except Cloud Anchorites.
12:20:13 <Hydrazine> Hell, last time I was playing, we had Bairaq in a 1-2 tier.
12:20:17 <Ballig> sidenote: the same applies to characters that use "interesting" combinations of rules to have a clearly overpowered ability or abilities
12:20:21 <Ballig> even if it's not strictly min-maxing
12:20:21 <Hydrazine> And he got dropped to negatives in one attack.
12:20:36 <Mekkis> true
12:20:50 <Mekkis> that is a rather worrying outcome
12:20:59 <Hydrazine> No level of min/maxing would've helped a proper level character survive that.
12:21:32 <Mekkis> not playing a human would have
12:22:00 <Hydrazine> So you're saying the scenarios are racist.
12:22:03 <Mekkis> yes
12:22:24 <Hydrazine> Which only furthers my disappointment with Society play.
12:23:05 <Mekkis> more like the characters in the scenarios are racist
12:23:17 <Mekkis> given how many of them have favoured enemy (human)
12:23:25 <Mekkis> especially in scenarios written by Matt Goodall
12:23:54 <Ballig> that's just hedging bets
12:24:24 <Mekkis> which way?
12:24:44 <Ballig> attempting to affect as many players as possible
12:24:58 <Hydrazine> Do you think considering who wrote the scenario, to base whether or not your character is appropriate, is how society play is supposed to work?
12:25:13 <Mekkis> no, Hydrazine, I don't
12:27:56 <Hydrazine> Do you think a more well balanced fighter would've survived against the croc?
12:28:08 <Mekkis> I would need to see the croc's tactics
12:28:42 <Avatar> you don't get to know that when you're a player
12:29:11 <Mekkis> as I would understand it, the croc should be attempting to swallow whole a fair bit more, and spread the damage around
12:29:38 <Hydrazine> How is that spreading damage around?
12:30:48 <Mekkis> That being said, when someone plays a min-maxed character, GMs have been known to consciously or subconsciously target that character
12:31:04 <Mekkis> Simple: once its swallowed you, it moves and attacks someone else
12:31:36 <Hydrazine> !throw 6d6+26
12:31:37 <diebot> Hydrazine, 6d6+26: [6d6=5,6,1,1,6,2] 47
12:31:46 <Hydrazine> Once it swallowed me, I was pretty much already dead.
12:32:08 <Mekkis> what level were you?
12:32:13 <Hydrazine> 5.
12:32:41 <Ballig> was it an uptier
12:32:43 <Ballig> that's a CR 9
12:32:45 <Hydrazine> No.
12:32:52 <Mekkis> tier 5-6, right?
12:33:09 <Hydrazine> Yep.
12:33:19 <Ballig> even on a tier 5-6, and even if the dire croc was the ultimate villain end boss fight, CR 9 seems high
12:33:44 <Hydrazine> Random encounter table.
12:34:01 <Ballig> I imagine it wasn't at full strength
12:34:12 <Hydrazine> I believe it was, but I could be wrong.
12:34:37 <Ballig> it's a very poorly balanced scenario if it was a full strength dire crocodile on a random encounter table
12:34:39 <Avatar> modules are usually harder than scenarios
12:34:46 <Ballig> was it a module
12:34:57 <Avatar> yeah
12:35:16 <Mekkis> what modules have you played Avatar?
12:35:38 <Avatar> that's what I've heard
12:35:40 <Ballig> it's still a gargantuan CR 9 creature against a party of level 5 and 6 players
12:35:41 <Mekkis> I mean, We Be Goblins wasn't that much harder, Ruby Phoenix Tournament as far as I've heard is a pushover
12:36:06 <Mekkis> (Cult of Ebon Destroyers is... well... a Matt Goodall module...)
12:36:18 <Avatar> how many have you played
12:36:23 <Mekkis> three
12:36:25 <Ballig> a billion
12:36:30 <Ballig> wait, I mean three
12:36:38 <Mekkis> Cult of Ebon Destroyers, We Be Goblins, and Godsmouth Heresy
12:36:58 <Avatar> so the ones you've played are probably harder than the ones I've played
12:37:12 <Mekkis> Godsmouth wasn't That Much harder...
12:37:24 <Mekkis> (but all the modules I've played were under the old rules...)
12:38:42 <Hydrazine> Oh, and I'm rather sure it wasn't any DM focus because of Jerus' optimization. THe DM hadn't asked to see his sheet.
12:39:13 <Avatar> the GMs I've seen on google groups are all much more lax than we are with that kind of thing
12:40:40 <Hydrazine> According to Mort, like half of them play paly/synths.
12:41:03 <Ballig> apparently it's a hot topic of contention in that community
12:41:19 <Ballig> we had a guy come in here to play a game who had a paladin/synthesist and Avatar wouldn't let him in the game :p
12:41:33 <Mekkis> how rude
12:41:46 <Ballig> it's apparently the power build
12:41:48 <Brunius> That is pretty rude
12:41:54 <Hydrazine> So I don't think its that they're more lax, I think they have a different idea of where the bar is for optimization.
12:42:00 <Ballig> *shrug* a GM is allowed to make those calls if he thinks it will ruin the game for everyone else
12:42:21 <Hydrazine> But is that how he presented it?
12:42:29 <Brunius> What, so outright banning entire classes is fine?
12:42:37 <Hydrazine> Or was it more like, "You play a paly/synth? Not in MY game!"
12:42:52 <Ballig> doesn't matter how it was presented
12:42:55 <Ballig> we aren't here to critique Avatar
12:45:39 <Steven> back
12:45:42 <Hydrazine> What is your opinion on completely denying a particular class combination play in games you run?
12:46:03 <Mekkis> Hydrazine, not in organised play. That's my opinion.
12:46:08 <Ballig> if I feel that the class combination is negatively impacting other players, then I dont' see an issue with it
12:46:32 <Ballig> "it's organised play, I can do anything that's within the rules" is not an excuse to run rampant and destroy the game for everyone else
12:46:38 <Ballig> imagine you were coming over to play PFS at my house
12:46:43 <Ballig> I don't HAVE to let you in, organised play or not
12:47:05 <Steven> its a privilage to sit down at play at a table, not a right
12:47:43 <Ballig> you can certainly alienate people if you arbitrarily decide that something is too overpowered and you refuse to allow it in your game, and that's the risk you take if you start making those decisions
12:47:48 <Ballig> but that doesn't mean you shouldn't make those decisions ever
12:47:55 <Ballig> it's a judgement call, just like everything else you do as a GM
12:49:23 <Steven> we have an unwritten rule down at the shop
12:49:30 <Mekkis> I find that a magus in the hands of an inexperienced player is worse than a synthesist in the hands of an experienced player
12:49:33 <Steven> Everybody gets one
12:49:47 <Mekkis> but I'm not going to ban either of them
12:49:55 <Ballig> that's your call
12:50:05 <Ballig> you have just as much right not to ban it as a GM does to ban it
12:50:09 <Hydrazine> I think my problem here is the focus on class selection and not the specifics of the character. What if it was a paly/syn with no base stat higher than 14?
12:50:34 <Ballig> that's an argument you'd have to make with the person making the decision, Hydrazine
12:50:56 <Mekkis> I also think that the sample size is too small to make a blanket decision
12:51:04 <Ballig> I'm sure if it came up and you could reasonably prove that the character wasn't stupidly overpowered regardless of his combination of classes, most GMs would be open to that
12:51:18 <Mekkis> how many synthesists have you actually seen in action?
12:51:29 <Steven> so far.... about 8
12:51:32 <Ballig> I'm not the one banning them from my games, why are you grilling me about the specifics of a ban that I don't have
12:51:34 <Steven> ive killed 1
12:52:24 <Steven> ive seen three ridiculously overpowered ones
12:52:39 <Steven> the rest were kinda run of the mill acceptable
12:52:55 <Hydrazine> I have a dream that one day, my characters shall be judged not by the classes they have chosen but by the contents of their.. I don't know how to finish this.
12:53:00 <Ballig> it's obviously more balanced and fair for a GM to take it on a case-by-case basis, but that's really difficult to make known ahead of time and hard to enforce on the fly
12:54:52 Eric ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
13:00:04 <Eric> !throw 1d20
13:00:04 <diebot> Eric, 1d20: [1d20=10] 10
13:00:27 <Ballig> !roll 1d20
13:00:28 <dicebot> Ballig, 1d20: [1d20=3] 3
13:00:49 <ducknuckem> Cool, a dice roller.
13:01:01 <Steven> !roll 1d20
13:01:02 <dicebot> Steven, 1d20: [1d20=5] 5
13:01:08 <Steven> i got a five... what did i win?
13:01:18 <Ballig> a slap to the testicles
13:01:23 <Steven> damn it...
13:01:25 <Steven> okay...
13:01:26 <Ballig> you don't want to know what I won :(
13:01:46 * Steven readies himself for the slap...
13:02:26 <Ballig> let Avatar do it, it'll be more like a gentle massage
13:02:28 <Ballig> with his tongue
13:02:45 <Steven> ahhh another tongue lashing from avatar...
13:02:52 <Ballig> ha
13:14:56 <Hydrazine> !rng rock paper scissors
13:14:56 <diebot> Hydrazine, rock
13:15:03 <Ballig> !rand rock paper scissors
13:15:04 <dicebot> Ballig, random: scissors
13:15:07 <Ballig> fux
13:15:12 <Hydrazine> Ha!
13:15:28 <Ballig> best two out of three!
13:15:30 <Ballig> !rand rock paper scissors
13:15:31 <dicebot> Ballig, random: rock
13:15:31 <Hydrazine> !rng rock paper scissors
13:15:32 <diebot> Hydrazine, scissors
13:15:34 <Hydrazine> Dammit.
13:15:36 <Ballig> !rand rock paper scissors
13:15:37 <Hydrazine> !rng rock paper scissors
13:15:37 <diebot> Hydrazine, paper
13:15:37 <dicebot> Ballig, random: scissors
13:15:40 <Ballig> !rand rock paper scissors
13:15:41 <dicebot> Ballig, random: rock
13:15:42 <Hydrazine> Fuck.
13:15:46 <Ballig> I win!
13:16:47 <Hydrazine> Only because your character's got a 20 somewhere and now the game's too easy.
13:17:04 <Ballig> so true, so true
13:17:29 <Ballig> Steven: you've used the PDF character sheet, right?
13:17:56 <Steven> yup
13:18:05 <Ballig> I've made a browser-based version
13:18:13 <Steven> cool cool
13:18:26 <Ballig> http://www.pfrpg.com.au/viewchar.php5?char=392
13:18:37 <Ballig> can get to it by clicking the "character sheet" link there, but you won't be able to change it unless you're logged in
13:18:49 <Steven> cool cool
13:18:59 <Ballig> your face is!
13:19:58 <Steven> face is what?
13:20:09 <Ballig> "cool", I guess
13:20:23 <Ballig> I hate VBA
13:20:34 <Ballig> and probably, by extension, VB
13:21:06 <ducknuckem> A hard earned thirst needs a good, cold beer.
13:21:13 <Ballig> ha
13:21:20 <Ballig> and the best cold beer is vics!
13:21:30 <Steven> VB? VBA?
13:21:36 <ducknuckem> Vaginal Backwash.
13:21:37 <Ballig> VBA = Visual Basic for Applications
13:21:44 <Ballig> it's the scripting used in microsoft office products
13:21:51 <Steven> gotcha
13:22:16 <Eric> Hydrazine, I've been meaning to ask how God's Market Gamble went a couple weeks ago.
13:22:35 <Ballig> is that the one you died horribly in Hydrazine
13:22:44 <Avatar> no that was godsmouth heresy
13:22:54 <Ballig> what's up with all these gods !
13:23:07 <Avatar> I actually thought it was a scenario because I got those two confused
13:23:55 <Hydrazine> I don't think I played God's Market.
13:23:59 <Hydrazine> Oh wait, yes I did.
13:24:05 <Hydrazine> Thats the one where Bairaq almost died.
13:24:06 <Avatar> you should run it
13:24:19 <Hydrazine> Considering hes a 5 and we were in 1-2 tier, scared the piss out of us.
13:24:34 <Hydrazine> Beyond that it went pretty well. And I got to dust off Nearis.
13:24:38 <Avatar> you should run it + we will not uptier
13:24:41 <Hydrazine> But I gotta go, back in 30 or so.
13:26:18 <Eric> Mekkis called a break around 4am my time and I couldn't stay awake until he came back, so I had to bail on the party.
13:26:27 <Ballig> you bailer
13:26:41 <Avatar> did you tell him you couldn't wait if he took a break
13:26:47 <Eric> I've heard it is the Kobayashi Maru of PFS
13:27:04 <Eric> Yeah, but he had already left
13:27:11 <Avatar> good 1 mekkis
13:27:25 <Avatar> gonna take a break for an hour CATCHA LATER GUYZ
13:27:31 <Avatar> see ya on the flipside
13:27:32 <Avatar> laterz
13:27:57 <Ballig> ha
13:28:12 <Eric> That's why I am now stating that I can only play 6 hours.
13:29:04 <Eric> Not sure what it means for a chronicle sheet, we had only found the guy in the bathhouse when I left
13:29:12 <Avatar> er, I just read what you guys were talking about before
13:29:21 <Avatar> the guy who got turned away for being a synthesist was saintcaleth
13:29:26 <Avatar> he's played with us again since that game
13:29:38 <Avatar> everybody knows some people will have problems with synthesists
13:29:50 <Avatar> and I haven't seen that "most people on google groups" have pally/synths
13:30:04 <Avatar> I don't know if I've played with a single synthesist on there yet
13:30:20 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure I played with one pally
13:30:43 <Eric> At low levels it definitely overpowers the scenarios, not sure about later on though
13:31:34 <Eric> Ralistically, it is no worse than a paldin with lay on hands
13:32:12 <Mekkis> Eric, http://nl.ti4200.info/~mekkis/3-18Eric.pdf
13:32:44 <Ballig> Avatar: it wasn't SaintCaileth
13:33:07 <Avatar> who was it
13:33:12 <Ballig> it was someone who hadn't been in here before
13:33:37 <Mekkis> paladin/synth misses out of the Cool Stuff a summoner gets at higher levels, and also misses out on the Cool Stuff a paladin gets at higher levels
13:33:48 <Mekkis> in exchange for more HP and less MADness
13:34:37 <Mekkis> I'm playing one, not in society though. And I think it's not a particularly good choice
13:34:59 <Ballig> I've never seen the combination used, I just remember whoever else was playing with us that day saying that paladin/synthesist has become an issue on google groups and the particular person that Avatar turned away was quite vocal about it
13:35:05 <Ballig> and had even complained to Paizo about not being allowed in games
13:36:05 <Avatar> I know what I'd do if I were paizo to resolve the issue
13:36:25 <Mekkis> what?
13:36:31 <Eric> and...
13:36:37 <Avatar> goodbye synthesists
13:36:39 <Ballig> ha
13:37:04 <Mekkis> and its that sort of knee-jerk reaction that makes me glad Avatar isn't working at Paizo
13:37:19 <Ballig> from memory the guy said that Paizo had weighed in to say that they had to allow paladin/synthesists in games, but I don't know how official that decision was or how it was delivered or how you could reasonably enforce that kind of decision when they don't enforce anything else on GMs
13:37:29 <Avatar> the impression I get is that it isn't knee-jerk, it's an ongoing issue
13:37:35 <Eric> I was thinking allowing it as a 4 point evolution for any Summoner
13:38:27 <Avatar> 4 points and a level restriction maybe
13:38:38 <Ballig> prestige archetype? ha
13:38:40 <Avatar> like level 16
13:38:41 <Eric> Like a prestige class maybe
13:39:23 <Eric> It doesn't violate the rules any more than everything in Ultimate Magic violates the rules
13:39:35 <Mekkis> Avatar, so what you're saying is that people are bitching about it, so rather than doing a full test to see if there's actual merit to their claims, you just want to throw it out based on heresy?
13:39:51 <Ballig> I assume you mean hearsay
13:40:03 <Ballig> unless synthesists are actually gods
13:40:07 <Mekkis> yes. thank you Ballig
13:40:19 <Avatar> I'll just show them your character sheet and tell them about a game you've played with him
13:40:26 <Ballig> haha
13:40:33 <Mekkis> who? Nightmare?
13:40:58 <Avatar> yeah they will be all WTF HOW DID WE LET THIS HAPPEN
13:42:03 <Avatar> it's not like you hear much bitching about any other archetype in comparison to the synthesist
13:42:10 <Ballig> they will even pronounce it as "dubyoo tee eff"
13:44:13 <Mekkis> did Nightmare really do that much damage?
13:45:05 <Avatar> he did enough damage to make me feel like you had a character that was legitimately cheating in the scenario
13:46:01 <Mekkis> he did a lot less damage than most fighters we have here
13:46:04 <Avatar> it's not like I've got a problem with the concept, they just need to fix the archetype
13:46:10 <Mekkis> Bairaq, even
13:47:10 <Mekkis> that being said, Avatar, you can rest assured that Nightmare is probably retired
13:47:24 <Eric> Standard action HP transfer perhaps?
13:47:24 <Ballig> I thought you meant damage to the scenario, not straight combat damage output
13:47:30 <Ballig> not everything is measured by combat damage output
13:47:36 <Mekkis> as soon as I finish building another character
13:47:53 <Ballig> for example, I feel that I've played in games (in person) that were damaged more by characters having ridiculously high diplomacy skill for their level than by any actual combat damage that was being done
13:48:29 <Mekkis> why do you think that succeeding nigh-impossible diplomacy checks is "damaging"?
13:48:47 <Eric> Realy? I prefer to avoid combat whenever reasonable
13:49:02 <Ballig> depending on the GM, it can basically breeze through 95% of the non-combat encounters and entirely skip 25% of the combat encounters
13:49:22 <Mekkis> I don't see that as a problem. Do you?
13:49:26 <Ballig> Eric: sure, from the perspective of a player wanting to survive, that's great. from the perspective of a player wanting to enjoy the challenge of the game, it's boring
13:49:32 <Ballig> I do see it as a problem
13:49:34 <Ballig> a big problem
13:49:40 <Ballig> the game was completely boring for me
13:49:46 <Ballig> I don't even know why I'd bothered to show up
13:51:49 <Eric> I find PFS is like old AD&D, it's all about the kill count. Occassional talking allows for actual role playing
13:52:18 <Ballig> don't get me wrong, I think it's perfectly acceptable to defeat an encounter using skills and diplomacy and roleplay
13:52:23 <Ballig> I enjoy doing it as a player and I encourage it as a GM
13:52:38 <Ballig> what I'm talking about is people who are able to get 35+ on a diplomacy check every single time from level 1-4
13:52:59 <Ballig> where they basically have no chance of NOT being able to avoid an encounter where diplomacy is even remotely a possibility
13:53:19 <Ballig> and overcome almost every non-combat situation
13:53:56 <Ballig> the game could have been made slightly more enjoyable if the GM had insisted they roleplayed their rolls instead of letting them sit back, throw a dice on the table and say "Yeah, got a 37. the NPC is practically sucking my dick now, right? let's keep moving."
13:54:09 <Ballig> but the fact that those characters exist at all is an issue
13:54:41 <Mekkis> I think it's better than the alternative
13:54:55 <Ballig> I don't think it's black and white enough to say that there's only a single alternative
13:55:06 <Eric> One of the Hoa Jin tapestry scenarios had guys that didn't speak common. It shut down our diplomacy guy quick enough
13:55:23 <Mekkis> oh.. That scenario...
13:55:58 <Eric> characters that are one trick ponies are a more general problem, but all game systems have them.
13:56:36 <Ballig> it's less of an issue except when that one trick is more than enough to destroy entire scenarios
13:56:47 <Ballig> diplomacy is one of those tricks
13:57:29 <Mekkis> what would you say about splitting up diplomacy?
13:57:35 <Ballig> I think the issue with diplomacy is that there's not really enough guidance to GMs in how they should actually handle it
13:57:49 <Ballig> it can be seen as practically a Charm Person a lot of the time
13:58:07 <Ballig> sometimes, no matter how much you smile and how charismatic and likable you are, you are still going to get mugged
13:58:25 <Mekkis> it doesn't help that in 3.5 there was a rule to do it as a full-round at a -10
13:58:40 <Mekkis> (FYI, Pathfinder doesn't have that rule)
13:59:22 <Ballig> one interesting thing would be to see some skills, diplomacy in particular, use a resource
13:59:41 snypt has quit (Quit: )
13:59:59 <Eric> such as?
14:00:29 <Ballig> difficult to flesh out on the fly, but something similar to spells/day
14:02:10 <Eric> 3+CHA for some of the enhancements over Ranks +CHA+Class?
14:04:04 <Ballig> or an adjustment of DCs for diplomacy
14:04:29 <Ballig> maybe a DC based off Will instead of charisma
14:05:23 <Ballig> notice that diplomacy doesn't even take HD into account
14:05:27 <Ballig> so it doesn't remotely scale
14:05:54 <Ballig> charisma is a very unlikely stat to see increase significantly at higher levels
14:06:08 <Eric> The early scenarios were in the 30+ range, even tier 1-2, maybe that's why it is so much easier now, because they overcompensated as opposed to players building maxed windbags
14:06:32 <Ballig> 30+ DC?
14:06:43 <Ballig> the DC is 25 + Charisma for someone who is actively hostile to you
14:06:55 <Ballig> very few level 1-2 NPCs have a +5 charisma
14:07:35 <Eric> Yeah, 've seen a couple season 0 and 1 that high. fortunately they were faction missions, but the guy had no hope of success.
14:07:36 <Steven> most sorcs at that level only have a 14-16
14:07:45 <Ballig> yeah
14:08:05 <Ballig> faction missions and diplomacy being specifically considered as a way to overcome an encounter can have DCs set independently
14:08:12 <Steven> awwwwww sams gonna be all pissy at me
14:08:38 <Eric> All I can thikn of off hand.
14:08:45 <Steven> couple weeks im gonna go visit my grandma down in cali
14:09:25 <Steven> for bout a month
14:10:07 <Ballig> take her with you
14:13:02 <Eric> I'll check in again tomorrow. Have fun
14:13:14 <Ballig> tata
14:13:21 Eric has quit (Quit: )
14:13:44 <Mekkis> hmmm
14:14:15 <Mekkis> so say you're approaching an Unfriendly guard, and you want them to let you into a palace
14:14:35 <Mekkis> so it's a DC21 diplomacy check (assuming they have 12 charisma)
14:14:45 <Mekkis> to make the indifferent
14:15:53 <Mekkis> once you've made him indifferent, it's a DC31 "or more" check to get him to let you in
14:15:55 <Ballig> the guard is more likely to be indifferent to begin with, but ignoring that a major issue is that it's a DC 21 diplomacy for level 1-2 and probably still DC 21 for level 6-7 too
14:17:37 <Ballig> I asusme you're adding the 10 for "reveal an important secret"
14:17:40 <Ballig> that's a bit of a judgement
14:17:42 <Mekkis> no
14:17:44 <Mekkis> adding 15
14:17:56 <Ballig> I think most GMs would say it's DC 26
14:18:01 <Ballig> because you're improving him to Friendly
14:18:02 <Mekkis> Give aid that could result in punishment
14:18:27 <Ballig> that's all very specific to the situation, obviously it can become difficult depending on exactly what you want them to do
14:18:46 <Ballig> but a main gripe I have is that it's the same at level 1 as it is at level 6, most of the time
14:18:53 <Ballig> NPC Charisma doesn't scale much
14:18:57 <Mekkis> true that
14:19:01 <Ballig> and diplomacy is based purely on status and Charisma
14:19:29 <Ballig> so if you get +15 to your diplomacy at an early level, you're pretty much set
14:19:37 <Ballig> you can get most encounters if you roll a 10
14:19:58 <Ballig> increase that over a few levels and you have no troubles
14:20:18 <Mekkis> the +5 per request might hurt
14:20:35 <Mekkis> (interesting: you should try the hardest request first)
14:21:07 <Avatar> I've never heard of any GM who enforces that
14:21:29 <Ballig> part of the issue is around better guidelines for GMs handling diplomacy
14:21:38 <Mekkis> agreed
14:21:44 <Ballig> e.g. just because your player rolled a 35 on diplomacy doesn't mean your NPC now has to do whatever the PC says
14:22:09 <Ballig> a mugger might still mug you even if he thinks you're a cool dude
14:22:12 <Ballig> he just maybe wont' kill you after
14:25:38 <Mekkis> does anyone know how Polymorph effects (like Beast Shape) work in Pathfinder?
14:26:23 <Ballig> I havent looked too hard into it, but Beast Shape lets you take certain abilities from the thing you are polymorphing into
14:26:29 <Ballig> what specifically were you after
14:26:59 <Mekkis> what abilities does a creature retain
14:28:54 <Avatar> so these new character sheets are live yeah
14:29:04 <Avatar> I want to try transcribe
14:29:07 <Ballig> they're live
14:29:10 <Mekkis> ?
14:29:33 <Ballig> Mekkis: http://www.pfrpg.com.au/charsheet.php5?id=281
14:29:49 <Ballig> Mekkis: do you have a specific example about a creature and a spell?
14:30:13 <Mekkis> if an imp uses its alternate form to become a young giant spider
14:32:42 <Mekkis> nice: where is the data stored?
14:32:44 <Ballig> I think it gets the bite and the climb speed
14:32:51 <Ballig> it's in the mysql database
14:33:08 <Mekkis> stored in TLV, or in separate columns?
14:33:14 <Mekkis> or in some other method?
14:33:48 <Ballig> each text box correponds to a different field of the database
14:33:54 <Ballig> it's actually a disgustingly big database because of it
14:33:57 <Ballig> I had to split it
14:34:55 <Mekkis> what would be the procedure for adding, say, and animal companion?
14:34:58 <Mekkis> (or two)
14:36:05 <Ballig> there is a spot for one animal companion right now, I'll be adding the ability to it later to add things like equipment lines and changing the number of spells
14:36:13 <Ballig> adding a second animal companion would be more difficult, but I'll figure it out
14:36:34 <Ballig> probably going to end up with miscellaneous fields that can be typed dynamically
14:36:36 <Mekkis> looks good
14:38:08 <Mekkis> link to another sheet that contains the companion perhaps?
14:38:35 <Ballig> or just don't have two animal companions! ha ha!
14:39:12 <Mekkis> it's more if you want a sheet with your companion, and another sheet with your companion under the effect of Animal Growth
14:39:59 <Ballig> it's unlikely to ever be able to account for everything someone wants to do (one of the reasons I like text-based character sheets)
14:40:07 <Hydrazine> Howdy.
14:40:12 <Mekkis> fair enough
14:48:49 <Steven> mekkis you should probably tell me to stop
14:48:58 <Steven> im about to make a boss character for my friend's home brew
14:49:06 <Steven> its gonna be evil as shit...
14:49:15 <Ballig> is it an anthropormorphic dire crocodile
14:49:19 <Hydrazine> Mekkis tell you to stop? Are we talking about the same Mekkis?
14:49:21 <Ballig> -r
14:49:46 <Hydrazine> Is it a synthesist/cavalier riding a roc?
14:49:53 <Steven> no... its a Vishkanyas sniper...
14:50:13 <Steven> who uses a gun...
14:50:24 <Steven> thats going to cast silence on himself
14:50:24 <Ballig> make him an anthropomorphic dire crocodile who uses a gun
14:51:42 <Hydrazine> Or a laser chainsaw.
14:51:55 <Ballig> yeah go with laser chainsaw, that is tops
14:52:09 <Ballig> and the fight should take place on a rickety rope bridge over the top of an active volcano
14:52:10 <Steven> alright... i need to make hiim have a weakness or this thing is going to TPK everyone not a paladin/synthesist
14:52:19 <Ballig> and the first round should be the guy cutting the rope bridge with his laser chainsaw
14:52:36 <Ballig> his weakness will be the Resistance spell
14:52:44 <Ballig> you have to cast it on him before he has his turn, and he will explode
14:52:51 <Ballig> note: give him all the + initiative abilities you can find
14:52:53 <Steven> of course the anthropomorphic dire crocodile can fly right?
14:53:03 <Hydrazine> His weakness could be styrofoam.
14:53:15 <Hydrazine> Or maybe he gets his power from the sun.
14:53:22 <Ballig> yeah! and some crazy guy should offer the party a styrofoam sword right at the start of the campaign
14:53:31 <Ballig> but don't clue them in on what it's for
14:54:23 <Hydrazine> Maybe he left his magic power ring in some girl's invisible jet, and now he can't find it.
14:54:49 <Hydrazine> But I still say you can't go wrong with a laser chainsaw.
15:09:16 <Mekkis> Steven, give him an Unholy Outsiderbane longbow!
15:09:31 <Mekkis> Unholy Good-Outsiderbane
15:10:00 <Steven> oh no... he is going to use a gun w/ silence on it
15:10:15 <Mekkis> Unholy Good Outsiderbane musket
15:10:33 <Steven> i dunno.... think thats a bit out there...
15:10:46 <Mekkis> make sure it's good outsiderbane
15:10:56 <Mekkis> that hits the synthesist paladins!
15:10:58 <Steven> this guy is supposedly out in the middle of no where scavanging off the corpses he finds
15:11:11 <Steven> and/or kills
15:11:13 <Mekkis> so he found a gun
15:11:23 <Mekkis> give him unholy bullets
15:11:25 <Steven> yeah, he killed a gunslinger, so he learned how to use a gun
15:11:31 <Mekkis> for his outsiderbane gun
15:12:00 <Steven> so it has to be a gun that would be available to a level 5 or so level character
15:12:12 <Steven> right now im designing a way to make him blow up
15:12:13 <Mekkis> outsiderbane is only +2
15:12:22 <Mekkis> 8000gp is reasonable
15:12:25 <Steven> when he gets low
15:12:39 <Mekkis> carry a lot of gunpowder?
15:12:44 <Mekkis> deadman switch?
15:12:48 <Steven> or negative hp... so the party doesnt get any of the really kick ass items he has lol
15:12:59 <Mekkis> pretty simple
15:13:06 <Mekkis> trap. Trigger: Status
15:13:23 <Steven> yeah, ide like to make it a bit more impressive then gunpowder though
15:13:41 <Steven> so im looking at things i can do magically
15:18:03 <Mekkis> what feats should my companion get
15:21:31 <Avatar> iron will
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15:23:13 <Mekkis> wtf
15:23:37 <Mekkis> to get Improved Grapple, do you Need Improved Unarmed, even if you have natural weapons?
15:24:37 <MincedSushi> It makes sense to me :I
15:25:28 <MincedSushi> By the way! hi Mekkis :D
15:25:31 <Mekkis> hi
15:26:31 <Ballig> you're not really attacking with your natural weapons when you grapple, in most cases
15:26:37 <Ballig> unless you have a special ability like grab
15:27:34 <Mekkis> it does
15:27:35 <Brunius> Looks like PFS has a new logo
15:28:49 <MincedSushi> They do :D
15:28:52 <MincedSushi> Looks all fancy~
15:29:32 <Mekkis> should take Learn Ranger Trap :)
15:36:46 <Mekkis> Toughness, Power attack, Throw Anything?
15:44:10 <MincedSushi> What is this for?
15:44:18 <Mekkis> my companion
15:48:33 <Mekkis> Brunius, what do you think about this feat? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/butterfly-s-sting-critical
15:50:46 <ducknuckem> I know it wasn't directed at me, but does it mean the ally automatically gets a critical hit without rolling, or just that is they roll a critical hit that it is confirmed automatically?
15:51:09 <Mekkis> I think they don't need to roll anything
15:52:13 <Mekkis> no
15:52:19 <Mekkis> they need to roll the attack
15:52:23 <Ballig> they need to hit
15:52:25 <Mekkis> if it hits, it's a crit
15:52:27 <Ballig> but it's a crit
15:52:39 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
15:52:50 <Mekkis> Great for the party lancer, gardener or magus
15:52:53 <Ballig> a good way to help maximise damage with some combinations of parties
15:53:02 <ducknuckem> Do you have to roll to confirm criticals, or was that house rule?
15:53:02 <Ballig> get someone decked out for high crit range, and someone else decked out for maximum damage
15:53:13 <Ballig> you have to roll to confirm criticals
15:54:02 <Mekkis> so I should roll up a fighter who wields dual scimitars
15:54:10 <Ballig> ha
15:54:13 <ducknuckem> Hmm. I struggle with the wording on that feat.
15:54:19 <Ballig> and party up with Bobbob
15:54:26 <Mekkis> sounds good
15:54:28 <Ballig> ducknuckem: basically, you get a critical hit
15:54:50 <Ballig> instead of taking the critical, you do normal damage, and the next person who /hits/ that creature with a melee attack before you have your next turn gets a crit instead of a regular hit
15:54:52 <ducknuckem> And it's automatically confirmed as well?
15:54:55 <Ballig> yeah
15:54:59 <ducknuckem> Ahkay.
15:55:22 <Ballig> it would suck a bit if they still had to confirm, because you've already done your confirming with your own roll
15:55:53 <Mekkis> A scythe-wielding summoner should give that feat to her eidolon :S
15:56:08 <Mekkis> (except Combat Expertise requires 13 int)
16:04:44 <MincedSushi> Can't EP be used on int?
16:05:02 <MincedSushi> Or do Eidolons start at less than 10?
16:05:48 <Mekkis> eidolons start at 7
16:05:52 <Mekkis> it CAN be used
16:05:56 <MincedSushi> ouch
16:05:56 <Mekkis> it's just a lot of points
16:06:10 <MincedSushi> Yea, I'd say so~
16:06:33 <Mekkis> then again, given how powerful eidolons can be, it's probably a viable idea
16:06:59 <MincedSushi> Might be useful for a defensive build
16:07:14 <MincedSushi> Just for the expertise alone
16:07:29 <Ballig> what are you wanting to do? give Butterfly Sting to the eidolon?
16:07:34 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
16:07:41 <Ballig> wouldn't it be better for the summoner to have butterfly sting and give the critical to the eidolon?
16:08:15 <MincedSushi> ^
16:08:16 <Mekkis> perhaps
16:08:24 <Mekkis> if the eidolon's bipedal
16:08:37 <Mekkis> summoner can go all weapon finesse with a scimitar
16:08:42 <Mekkis> eidolon can do the gardening
16:08:52 <Ballig> 2 handed head chopping
16:09:09 <Mekkis> lawnmowing
16:09:35 <Ballig> wonder if part of the reason for combat expertise is to prevent animal companions taking it :p
16:09:56 <Mekkis> my companion has 13 int!
16:10:07 <Ballig> is it an animal companion
16:10:17 <Mekkis> sort of
16:10:29 <MincedSushi> xD
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16:16:54 Skilmar has quit (Quit: )
16:20:20 <MekkisScreen> .
16:55:13 <MekkisScreen> [A
16:56:07 <Avatar> are you testing something
16:56:41 <Ballig>
16:57:28 <Avatar> is everybody testing something
16:57:35 <Ballig>
16:57:57 <Avatar> maybe something needs testing
16:58:08 <Ballig>
16:58:12 <Ballig>
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17:04:32 <Mekkis> Avatar needs testing
17:05:21 <Ballig> I was hoping more people would keep up the blank messages so he'd think something was wrong with his client
17:11:22 ducknuckem has quit (Quit: For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. - Carl Sagan)
17:15:56 <Avatar> does traits go under feats and features
17:16:09 <Ballig> I usually put it there
17:17:32 <Steven> me too
17:17:38 <Mekkis> did you get an outlook.com account?
17:19:04 <Avatar> feats and features adds a scrollbar if there's too much text on one side
17:19:06 <Avatar> not sure if that's intended
17:21:11 <Ballig> depends where the scrollbar is added
17:21:13 <Ballig> it's a textarea
17:25:43 <Avatar> missing a headband slot
17:26:11 <Ballig> that's head, isn't it
17:26:17 <Avatar> no, there's head and headband
17:27:05 <Avatar> crowns usually take a head slot
17:27:32 <Ballig> I was just going with what the template character sheet used, I'll add it later
17:28:36 <Avatar> yeah that's probably the unhealthiest part of the sheet
17:59:52 <Brunius> What is the standard amount of traits?
18:00:10 <MekkisScreen> 2
18:00:18 <Brunius> Even in non-society play?
18:00:25 <MekkisScreen> though you can potentially have 6
18:00:47 <MekkisScreen> I haven't played a non-society game that allowed more than three
18:04:27 <MekkisScreen> if a creature has telepathy, can it both send and reeceive from nontelepaths?
18:04:47 <Brunius> That's how I'd interpret it.
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19:12:48 <Panda> yay game tomorrow!!!!
19:12:58 <Steven> okay...
19:13:03 <Steven> I am done with the character
19:13:22 <Steven> 4Spellslinger/3Gunslinger
19:14:14 <Steven> well almost done, i have one more feat to pick and one trait to pick
19:16:57 <Brunius> What
19:17:01 <Brunius> What game tomorrow
19:17:03 <Brunius> Who's dming
19:17:06 <Brunius> what tier is it
19:19:51 <Steven> I have a feeling Joe is going to kill somebody with this beast i have made
19:40:33 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
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20:31:17 <Brunius> Man, I try to type out tooth and nail and automagically think mtg card...
20:32:32 <Brunius> http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8510839/tas-goes-it-alone-on-gay-marriage
20:32:36 <Brunius> Tasmania?
20:32:42 <Brunius> Wouldn't have picked that.
20:36:11 <ducknuckem> True.
20:36:48 <Mort-> Duck - you rolled a character up yet?
20:36:55 <ducknuckem> Nope.
20:39:58 <Mort-> Game is on tomorrow if you're interested
20:40:11 <Brunius> There's a game tomorrow?
20:40:14 <Brunius> Who's DMing?
20:40:17 <Brunius> What tier?
20:40:32 <ducknuckem> Cool.
20:40:36 <Mort-> You right
20:40:43 <Brunius> Me?
20:40:45 <ducknuckem> What level shall I write up?
20:40:50 <Brunius> Just level one.
20:40:51 * Mort- nips brunius
20:41:15 <ducknuckem> Ahkay.
20:41:57 <Mort-> Ask us for help if you need
20:42:11 <Brunius> You've seen the PFS guide?
20:42:18 <ducknuckem> Nothing special, just a character from the core rulebook?
20:42:23 <ducknuckem> not yet.
20:42:31 <Brunius> You should probably look at that
20:42:37 <Brunius> It outlines what's allowed
20:42:44 <ducknuckem> Okay.
20:43:12 <ducknuckem> On the Paizo site?
20:43:14 <Brunius> !vchargen
20:43:15 <diebot> Brunius, 17(6,6,5,5), 5(2,1,2,1), 14(4,4,6,1), 13(4,3,3,6), 14(6,2,6,2), 14(2,5,6,3)
20:46:08 <Mort-> Nice stats
20:46:21 <Brunius> I dislike low stats
20:46:24 <Brunius> of any variety
20:46:34 <Brunius> I don't care if it's 18-18-18-18-18-5
20:46:41 <Mort-> Put it in cha and play a fighter :p
20:46:44 <ducknuckem> So do I do something in here to roll up my stats?
20:46:50 <Mort-> Racial bonus goes to it
20:46:51 <Brunius> It's in the guide, ducknuckem
20:46:58 <Brunius> 20 point buy
20:47:02 <Mort-> Point buy people. 20 point buy
20:47:04 <ducknuckem> Ah.
20:47:12 <Brunius> Pathfinder has a tweaked PB system I think
20:47:13 <Mort-> I really miss my inquisitor
20:47:14 <ducknuckem> Where's the guide?
20:47:22 <Mort-> Hope ill get to play him this wee
20:47:24 <Mort-> Wed
20:47:37 <Brunius> http://paizo.com/products/btpy84k4
20:47:43 <Brunius> What's going on wednesday?
20:48:33 <Mort-> paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/playerResources
20:48:50 <Mort-> Playing serpents skull locally
20:50:26 <Brunius> ah
20:51:38 <Mort-> My inquisitor could pass for a ranger if no one looks too carefully
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21:32:06 Mort- has quit (EOF from client)
21:43:28 mortswishytail has quit (Quit: Bye)
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21:49:19 <Mekkis> mrot!
21:49:37 <Mort-> Mort.
21:49:43 <Mort-> You spelt wrong mek
21:49:43 <Mekkis> tail -f mort
21:49:52 <Mort-> I'm not a mrot
21:49:58 <Mort-> ?
21:50:42 <Brunius> That's a bit mean Mekkis
22:06:58 Sachiru has quit (Quit: Shutting Down )
22:12:14 Mekkis_x200 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:19:07 <Mekkis> brb reinstalling OS and upgrading laptop and fun stuff like that
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