// #eevblog — 2020-05-25
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00:01:54 Join: hsn993 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:02:56 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:04:45 <Watcher> And now you soda is not cooled?
00:06:34 Quit: hsn993 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
00:20:39 <Ampera> my soda isn't cold at all
00:20:45 <Ampera> I drink it room temperature, like a maniac
00:20:53 <Ampera> however milk doesn't fare so well when you leave it out
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00:28:45 Quit: Watcher ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
00:28:53 <canadaguest> going look something else so...have fun till next time
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00:29:24 <Ampera>
00:43:48 <rust_collector> ok, thanks asus, for making a very crap pile of asus
00:44:09 <rust_collector> oh well, it sort of works now
00:45:40 <Ampera> rust_collector, my ASUS monitor is great
00:45:48 <Ampera> it will forcefully switch to whatever input is active
00:46:03 <Ampera> so if you have two computers on it and restart one of them, it will switch to the other one
00:46:06 <Ampera> and you can't turn that off
00:46:16 <rust_collector> yes, I just do not like their bios thing, and laptops
00:46:28 <Ampera> I haven't had proper ASUS gear in uh
00:46:39 <Ampera> I don't think I ever have, like a motherboard, outside of older machines
00:46:46 <rust_collector> right
00:46:49 <rust_collector> good for you
00:46:57 <Ampera> I was ASRock, then I was BIOSTAR, then MSI, then Gigabyte, and now Gigabyte again
00:47:21 <Ampera> Out of the lot of them I liked BIOSTAR the most, I wish they were still around
00:47:36 <Ampera> or rather making modern motherboards, I'm not sure what exactly they're doing these days
00:48:09 <rust_collector> this machine, is just very picky. almost no matter what you change in the settings, it will either overheat, or simply not work at all
00:49:16 <rust_collector> so, that was a pile of money well wasted. But that is the point, I guess
00:49:31 <Ampera> huh, they are still making motherboards
00:49:37 <Ampera> I thought they stopped for some reason
00:58:10 <rust_collector> ok, that was one set of headset thing glued.
01:00:16 <Lemon> back peeps
01:00:18 <Lemon> p33ps
01:00:36 <rust_collector> hoi lemon
01:04:46 <rust_collector> I should probably dig the desktop out of the pile of stuff, and see if my motherboard will fit in there
01:09:23 <rust_collector> or... is there a reasonable way to test usb ports? eeh. it would take days... but I always use days...
01:09:27 <Lemon> so the decade box price is around 120 euros
01:09:36 <Lemon> test usb ports ?
01:09:43 <Lemon> to see if they deliver 5v for example ?
01:09:51 <Lemon> aand the right current
01:10:43 <rust_collector> to figure out why they drop out after a few days
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01:15:59 <rust_collector> hmm, it looks like it has sucked in some kind of rotten foam. I guess I should blow it out, and see what happens
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01:36:05 Join: rust_collector ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:38:04 <rust_collector> hmmm, all this complicated desktop environment... whaaaaa
01:41:37 <Lemon> I just felt that when openning the new doom builder tool
01:41:48 <Lemon> and remembered its easier to just play
01:42:31 <rust_collector> I wonder if I should convert this install to some window manager
01:43:54 <rust_collector> I almost sort of prefer the smaller screen on the laptop. this is just a bit.. weird
01:44:35 <Lemon> one thing I want to maybe build, is a little 5-6 inch screen or maybe smaller that tells me the consumption of my whole lab
01:44:57 <rust_collector> heh
01:52:38 <rust_collector> you should have an alarm, and strobing light, that turn on just before you pop the breakers. no one cares how much power you use
01:53:36 <Lemon> well I do care a bit, that would keep my mother for blaming me everday because the electricity consumption rised (she dont want to understand that our water heater is dying, and works h24)
01:54:22 <rust_collector> smash the thermostat, it will get replaced soon
01:57:02 <rust_collector> you should have enough tools to diagnose a water heater by now
02:03:26 <rust_collector> aww crap, my belt broke. Now I have to fix that too
02:34:33 <rust_collector> https://satyrus-occult.bandcamp.com/album/rites
03:45:06 * rust_collector is eating a small salad
03:45:24 * rust_collector just had a small salad, before this small salad
03:45:41 * rust_collector needs food in his salad
03:54:41 <rust_collector> Lemon, ??
03:54:47 <Lemon> yes ytes
03:54:48 <Lemon> yes
03:54:56 <Lemon> my head is hurting
03:54:56 <rust_collector> oh good, are you busy?
03:55:07 <Lemon> just looking at ebay things
03:55:18 <rust_collector> i take that as a sort of
03:56:02 <rust_collector> oh well, maybe I will just go smash the front of a bus. I hope the hospital is fun these days
03:56:36 <Lemon> heh sounds fun !
03:56:54 <rust_collector> ok, have enjoys for a while than
03:57:02 <Lemon> you know I kinda want to get some of those components grab bag, to get some op amps, caps etc for cheaper
03:58:19 <Lemon> also pots, I need pots
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04:30:49 <rust_collector> I always buy some pots, then need a different value, lol
04:33:18 <Lemon> yeah thats why I want some
04:33:27 <Lemon> also it seems polystyrene caps are really stable
04:33:35 <Lemon> if I can find some decades, I might make a mini box
04:33:42 <Lemon> as I have 3 extra thumbwheels
04:36:06 <rust_collector> https://www.ebay.com/itm/18-Pcs-9-Values-Single-Potentiometer-Assortment-Kits-B500K-5K-With-Nut-And-Washe/372772288090?hash=item56caf5b65a:g:aIgAAOSwDNFdf3TQ
04:36:19 <rust_collector> for the chinesest set
04:36:48 <Lemon> well seeing how I can easily buy nice branded things, I think I'll avoid chinese sets now, when I can
04:36:57 <Lemon> see resistors for example
04:37:05 <Lemon> for the same price I got more values, and way better quality
04:37:39 * Ampera squeezes Lemon
04:37:49 <Lemon> :O
04:37:52 <Ampera> how do
04:38:11 <Lemon> ho great, you ?
04:38:32 <Ampera> Lemon, I'm alright, I'm at my mother's
04:42:27 <rust_collector> I am still hungry
04:44:07 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/0-01uF-250V-0-5-K71-7-Polystyrene-capacitors-Lot-of-20/261456722733?hash=item3ce008fb2d:g:OREAAMXQCtlRUcZP
04:44:10 <Lemon> those are nice
04:44:55 <rust_collector> are you sure they are nice?
04:45:28 <Lemon> yeah
04:45:35 <rust_collector> o kthen
04:45:37 <Lemon> polystyrene caps seems to be one of the more stable
04:45:44 <Lemon> and 0.5% is quite rare for caps
04:46:10 <rust_collector> sure, but they may be from 1985
04:46:19 <Lemon> boarf no problem
04:46:31 <Lemon> I measured some I salvaged that were even older, and still perfectly in specs
04:46:38 <rust_collector> sure
04:46:51 <rust_collector> ok, I think those are from 91.
04:46:57 <Lemon> I wouldnt get paper, lytics or else from that era tho
04:48:53 <Lemon> hmm values under 1nf are hard to find, in decades
04:48:57 <Lemon> like 1pf, 10pf etc
05:16:02 Join: Andre ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:17:56 <Lemon> for 100 euros, I can get caps from 10pf to 1uf, 0.5% to 2%, all polystyrene
05:18:06 <Lemon> there 36 euros of shipping in that price :(
05:18:21 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:23:52 <rust_collector> wait until just before christmas season, and fly over there and pick some up
05:23:58 <rust_collector> probably cheaper
05:26:40 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/K71-7-10-pcs-0-5uF-250V-1-Polystyrene-Audio-Capacitors-USSR-NOS/254050420497
05:26:44 <Lemon> they look funny
05:27:45 <rust_collector> noooo, they look serious
05:28:57 <rust_collector> these look interesting-ish: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/2-pcs-0-1uF-0-1uF-1uF-350V-1-Silver-Mica-SSG-2-Capacitors-Audio-Hi-End-USSR/202908468067?_trkparms=aid%3D555021%26algo%3DPL.SIMRVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190711100440%26meid%3D4ec005db38b94725ab7d91421a58869d%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D254050420497%26itm%3D202908468067%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplRVIAMLv5WebWithPLRVIOnTopCombiner&_trksi
05:28:57 <rust_collector> 2047675.c100752.m1982
05:29:18 <Lemon> yeah, big bois
05:30:52 <rust_collector> well, not huge
05:31:39 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
05:32:27 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:39:43 <Lemon> so yep, 100 euros for a 6 decades 0.5/1% precision caps
05:39:54 <Lemon> well a bit more, with switches and the box
05:40:36 <rust_collector> yes, makes almost no sense to me... but you have fun
05:41:23 <DHess_US> Mica are good for RF but terrible for anything else except were precision is required.
05:42:57 <rust_collector> I vote for buying those drawer rack things, before you get even more things
05:43:34 <DHess_US> I've been playing too much Subnautica. I have an indicator somewhere in the room which shines on the ceiling making a shadow that looks like the bottom of one of those floating balls. I keep waking up and thinking that I'm drowning and wondering where my Cyclops submarine is.
05:44:33 <coppice> Mica is good for temperature tolerance
05:45:00 <DHess_US> For audio I've only seen it used to advantage for precision oscillators and filters.
05:45:19 <Lemon> DHess_US I was looking at polystyrene, they seem to be the best choice for stability right >?
05:45:55 <DHess_US> For stability? They are good but maybe not the best but in other aspects they are one of the better choices.
05:46:04 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/K71-7-10-pcs-0-5uF-250V-1-Polystyrene-Audio-Capacitors-USSR-NOS/254050420497
05:46:07 <Lemon> it was for a decade box
05:46:34 <DHess_US> polypropylene is better in most cases
05:46:58 <DHess_US> Either will work well for that.
05:47:08 <Lemon> hmmm I looked at some high end decade box makers and they were using either polystyrene or air caps
05:47:20 <Lemon> I havent read about polypropylene for that tho
05:47:31 <DHess_US> polystyrene makes for a physically smaller part.
05:47:52 <Lemon> do you think they are cheaper too ?
05:49:03 <DHess_US> In the past maybe. For equal tolerance and voltage, I'd get the one which is less expensive.
05:49:06 <Lemon> 10pf to 1uf (6 decades) in 0.5/1% tolerance, all polystyrene would cost me 100 euros total
05:49:12 <DHess_US> As far as performance they are practically identical.
05:49:27 <DHess_US> Except of course that polystyrene is low temperature.
05:49:31 <Lemon> hmmm ok
05:49:45 <Lemon> low temp you mean while in usage ?
05:49:50 <Lemon> or a lower tempco ?
05:49:52 <DHess_US> You wouldn't want to use polystyrene in a circuit with tubes.
05:49:57 <Lemon> ha yes
05:50:20 <DHess_US> I mean operational. Polystyrene self destructs at 90C.
05:50:21 <Lemon> the problem with them is that I wont be able to use thumbwheel switches, unless I use wires to relocate them
05:50:26 <Lemon> and idk if I can do that
05:50:51 <DHess_US> Nothing wrong with modern C0G or NP0 ceramic capacitors.
05:51:13 <Lemon> with the same tolerance/stability ?
05:51:17 <Lemon> for also the same price
05:51:22 <DHess_US> yes
05:51:27 <Lemon> I want it to be the most stable
05:51:34 <Lemon> hmmm
05:51:47 <Lemon> I had a hard time finding 1% ceramic caps, especially on ebay
05:51:52 <DHess_US> C0G and NP0 capacitors are competitive for stability
05:52:02 <Lemon> under 100ppm/c ?
05:52:06 <DHess_US> Oh yes
05:52:09 <Lemon> I think polystyrene caps are around that
05:52:15 <Lemon> interesting
05:52:22 <DHess_US> polystyrene are 120ppm
05:52:23 <Lemon> and 1% tolerance too ?
05:52:28 <coppice> ceramic caps have the disadvantage of being non-linear
05:52:31 <Lemon> yeah 120
05:52:47 <DHess_US> coppice, not class one ceramic like C0G and NP0
05:53:38 <DHess_US> In the past big C0G and NP0 capacitors were not competitive because of high price and you only found them in military and aerospace applications.
05:54:21 <Lemon> 30ppm, nice
05:55:42 <Lemon> can I solder those with a regular iron ? or are they too small ?
05:55:48 <Lemon> I have no experience with smd parts
05:56:39 <DHess_US> They are large enough to be soldered and leaded parts are available.
05:56:45 <Lemon> I could build a 6 decade from 1pf to 100nf
05:56:55 <DHess_US> Real precision capacitors are oiled filled film.
05:57:14 <Lemon> I saw those yeah, but well for a decade box, it will be really expensive
05:57:22 <Lemon> maybe I could get one or two, as references
05:57:25 <DHess_US> parasitic make it difficult to have 1 picofarad resolution.
05:57:34 <Lemon> ha yes I wanted to ask that
05:57:42 <Lemon> should I go from maybe 10pf ?
05:58:00 <Lemon> I wanted to use silver plated thumbwheel switches
05:58:17 <DHess_US> I'd stick a variable air trimmer across the output as a Vernier.
05:58:35 <Lemon> to reduce stray capacitance ?
05:58:43 <DHess_US> so 100 picofarad resolution maybe with a vernier.
05:58:54 <Lemon> ha as the decade itself
05:58:54 <DHess_US> No, to avoid having to deal with it.
05:59:01 <Lemon> hmmmmm
05:59:32 <Lemon> damn those COG arent cheap
06:00:21 <Lemon> well anyway thats nice to know this alternative, thanks
06:00:36 <Lemon> I already have a resistor box to build, I got some 0.1% low tempco resistors on the way
06:00:44 <Lemon> and 1% too, for extremes
06:00:56 <Lemon> a 9 decades one, from 1R to 100Mohms
06:04:07 <Lemon> with those ussr silver plated thumbwheels
06:04:14 <Lemon> it will be kewl
06:04:19 <Lemon> 120 euros, approx
06:04:32 <Lemon> when I see how much IET or whatever are charging, its a nice alternative
06:08:47 <Lemon> 120 is still expensive but well
06:09:59 <rust_collector> cheaper than a dog
07:09:06 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Connection closed
08:07:04 Join: M ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:07:38 <M> is there discord server for this forum ?
08:17:16 <rust_collector> https://discord.com/invite/qGMhKbq
08:17:45 <rust_collector> I do not know anything about it, but it seems to exist
08:23:16 <M> thanks mate i guess forums are more active from what i see here xD
08:24:24 <rust_collector> well, the forum is the forum, we just chat here, most of the time. and I have no idea about discord at all, lol
08:26:03 <rust_collector> well, good night
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08:30:15 <M> good night
08:30:18 Quit: M ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
08:43:05 Join: hsn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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10:10:14 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Alert from my @SolarAnalytics solar power monitor, "Under performance detected, something's not quite right. Company contacted. No action is required by you. " Yeah, umm, I'm pretty sure they're called clouds. https://t.co/TjOjyHWwtK
10:50:00 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:50:00 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
11:05:16 <rust_collector> aah, awesome. it is 3, and I am done sleeping
11:06:35 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: What fresh new hell is about to be released upon humanity. Please god, no! He could raise millions in a crowd funder if he promised NOT to release it. https://t.co/bxQ4mq1lC3
11:08:36 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Solar Power System Monitor ALERT! https://t.co/B7UlifK85x
12:23:02 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Sad to see what's happening with Hong Kong and their freedom. It's hard to see a way the CCP isn't ultimately going to get what it wants.
12:23:07 <Ampera> ^^^^^
12:46:11 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Wow how times change. Just a few years ago I was lucky to find my small editing studio to rent, nothing on the market. Now there are 7 vacant offices in that same building. And that's just the ones that are publicly listed.
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14:32:50 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Captain Disillusion: I’m starting to mentally prepare myself for almost being close to sort of finishing a video soon.
14:43:55 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: Joseph Skewes: These databases from crypto related sites were recently listed for sale. How safe is it to 'be your own bank' if the bad guys find out where you live (see https://t.co/fLfCftcqzq includes address)? Sites & forums need a more secure framework for accessing & using customer data. https://t.co/XIiFNqV4Rx
15:03:02 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Remember when Norton Utilities for DOS was a big thing...
15:33:13 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Retweet: PassMark Software: @eevblog 20 years ago, Norton's System information was the inspiration for our PerformanceTest software. https://t.co/h2iwPOV5sI
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15:44:54 <Ysjoelfir> hello all
16:05:10 Join: Guest|85913 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:22:32 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Who was the first human to set foot on the moon? An engineering nerd. A damn engineering NERD! https://t.co/3MPANUUQgH
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17:17:40 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:18:05 <Lemon> hi bois
17:18:16 <T3sl4> o/
17:20:56 <Ysjoelfir> salut citron!
17:21:14 <Lemon> gutenmorgen :> :
17:21:32 <T3sl4> 3:13
17:21:43 <Ysjoelfir> no, 9:21
17:22:04 <T3sl4> nah, it's the king of time
17:22:13 <Ysjoelfir> :O
17:22:16 <T3sl4> crown, eyes, moustache, :3 mouth
17:22:16 * Ysjoelfir hails the king
17:22:28 <Ysjoelfir> haha :D
17:25:11 * Ysjoelfir reads an article about the repair of a sony trinitron.
17:25:25 <Ysjoelfir> "Needless to say, use caution around all these boards: the video amp uses 80 and 200V, G2 uses 1500V, and the deflection board uses everything inbetween (plus some crazy waveforms). Always check that capacitors have discharged to a zero-energy state, or if you're servicing it live... well, you're better off not doing that..."
17:26:01 <Ysjoelfir> I remember servicing several CRTs while being switched on. Always an adventure back then in my trainee times :D
17:29:40 <T3sl4> when i had to troubleshoot a cracked resistor/solder joint in mine, needless to say i used a long insulating stick to do so
17:29:53 <Ysjoelfir> I especially liked the time where the boss cheaped out and bought the flammable freeze spray. he was sitting there, searching for a high voltage leak somewhere, spraying ice spray. I was sitting in front of the TV, not seeing what he was doing, but suddenly it was like "WHOOF", a flame shot up behind the TV and the boss suddenly didn't have any eyebrows anymore
17:30:35 <T3sl4> D:
17:31:03 <Ysjoelfir> aah, T3sl4, you spoilered my reading experience^^ Now I know what the fault was :D
17:31:16 <Ysjoelfir> ^ yeah, it was hilarious
17:31:38 <T3sl4> oh, was that my prose? it's been so long i didn't notice :P
17:31:47 <Ysjoelfir> it was^^
17:32:33 <T3sl4> i didn't know you could buy flammable freeze spray. i know you can buy butane refills, but that with a spray head or tube??
17:33:15 <Ysjoelfir> yes, the cheap freeze spray is just butane IIRC. its like 3.50€ while the non flammable is 4.20€.
17:34:55 <Ysjoelfir> he (the boss) made some very dumb decisions back then. once his wife ran in front of a big Grundig TV, one of those 3....6(?) inch beasts with the inbuild steel carry handles. those had a waaaay to small base to stand on reliable as soon as you took the back cover with the bigass subwoofer off. so, wife rans past it, just barely touching it, and... well. the TV started to tip over
17:35:43 <Ysjoelfir> I saw that, jumped to it, trying to catch it from the front. big boss decided that it was a great idea to reach for the CRTs neck and try to grab that
17:36:03 <Ysjoelfir> it was a very... interesting but somehow disturbing sound-ensemble that followed
17:36:29 <Ysjoelfir> like *crack* *suck* *scream*
17:43:08 <Ysjoelfir> hah, found the model. It was a Grundig Monolith M95. 95 centimeters screen. like 37.5 inches
17:46:07 <T3sl4> yeah dont do that
17:46:20 <T3sl4> lucky he didn't get lacerated horribly?
17:48:52 <Ysjoelfir> he did. his hand was stuck in the CRT, still holding the electron gun
17:49:05 <Ysjoelfir> we had to smash the CRT to get his wrist out of there
17:49:14 <Ysjoelfir> well, smash it more as it already was
17:49:58 <T3sl4> so it sucked his hand in? yike
17:50:01 <Ysjoelfir> he was lucky though, one of the flass "spikes" just barely missed the.... big blood thing in his wrist
17:50:03 <Ysjoelfir> yep
17:50:08 <Ysjoelfir> *glass
17:50:08 <T3sl4> artery
17:50:14 <Ysjoelfir> yes, that
17:51:05 <Ysjoelfir> he had an intersting scar since then. like a rough zig zag shape all around his wrist
17:51:52 <Lemon> I once tried to shoot with all my guts into a football near my stairs
17:52:00 <Lemon> and the house wasnt done (it still isnt)
17:52:23 <Lemon> a bit of them stairs was not seated properly on the floor, idk how to explain it
17:52:26 <Lemon> we needed to cut
17:52:28 <Lemon> cut it
17:52:38 <Lemon> I hit it with all my strengh
17:52:52 <Lemon> I broke my little pinky foot in two parts :>
17:53:08 <Lemon> it never really fixed itself properly
17:56:01 <Ysjoelfir> yikes :X
17:57:27 <T3sl4> yeah, wood is stronger than you, for the most part
17:57:46 <Lemon> funny story is that once every 2-3 years, I rebreak it
17:57:55 <Lemon> with furniture or whatever
17:58:58 <T3sl4> so you can't learn a lesson? ;)
17:59:09 <Lemon> hey ysjoelfir, for your capacitor standard, what wre those polystyrene caps ?
17:59:12 <Lemon> ha well
17:59:19 <Lemon> furniture is here to fuck you up ? xd
18:02:43 <T3sl4> furniture legs, feet, etc. placed at foot level, clearly it's a conspiracy
18:02:48 <Ysjoelfir> what do you mean with "what"? they were.... polystyrol caps.
18:03:21 <Ysjoelfir> I didn't have any data for them, they were from my "pile of junk". But I measured them and they looked pretty good
18:03:24 <Lemon> yeah but do yyou know their brand ? and which value ? I was looking at building maybe a cap decade box with 6 decades
18:03:52 <Lemon> for 100 euros, I can make a 6 decades from 10pf to 1uf, with 0.5/1% polystyrene caps
18:03:53 Quit: Guest|85913 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
18:04:16 <Ysjoelfir> aaah, thats where you're going. the brands were various. some were ERO, some Roederstein, some even RIFAs. mostly german brands IIRC. Values from 100pf to 1µF in decade steps
18:04:41 <Lemon> ok nice ! and same tolerance I guess ? 1% or so ?
18:05:20 <Ysjoelfir> 1% in most cases, the 100pf was +- 0.1 pF IIRC
18:05:30 <Lemon> wow really nice
18:05:40 <Lemon> 0.1% is quite rare
18:06:15 <Ysjoelfir> well, capacitances of the wires were bigger than the .1pF deviation that thing was allowed to have
18:06:25 <Ysjoelfir> with wires it measured something like 103pF
18:06:27 <Lemon> but well I already bought a lot of resistors so idk
18:06:38 <Lemon> ha yeah ! what are you using to measure it ?
18:07:00 <Ysjoelfir> nothing special, so I don't know about total accuracy yet. Just an Atlas LCR
18:07:47 <Lemon> ha yeah ok
18:07:57 <Lemon> DHess told me that CR0 caps are a better option
18:08:09 <Lemon> with 30ppm/C tempco, same tolerance etc
18:08:18 <Lemon> and easier to solder on thumbwheels I guess
18:08:41 <Ysjoelfir> CR0? whats that?
18:09:00 <Ysjoelfir> I know about NP0, which is what I would use if I would have to buy new "precision" caps
18:09:02 <DHess_US> C0G, NP0
18:09:03 <Lemon> N0P maybe
18:09:07 <Lemon> YES
18:09:09 <Lemon> sorry
18:09:16 <Lemon> C0G NP0
18:09:22 <Lemon> CR0 is another thing
18:09:32 <Ysjoelfir> :D
18:09:33 <DHess_US> CR0 is an 8086 register.
18:09:52 <DHess_US> or maybe 386 register.
18:09:59 <Lemon> the problem is I dont know where to get them, as most websites like digikey, mouser etc got custom fees to france
18:10:28 <Ysjoelfir> they have fees to everywhere except the US I immagine
18:10:38 <Ysjoelfir> look at farnell, if you are masochistic
18:11:32 <Lemon> https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Lot-de-5-Condensateur-Ceramique-1nF-100V-1-C0G-NP0-AVX-pas-2-54/264296714783?hash=item3d894fd21f:g:zMIAAOSwA3dYHsDG
18:11:36 <Lemon> could I use those ?
18:11:47 <Lemon> idk if those got the low tempco im after
18:12:08 <Ysjoelfir> sure, but it feels a tad expensive (without looking normal prices up)
18:12:19 <Ysjoelfir> NP0 defines the tempco^^
18:12:24 <Ysjoelfir> Negative Positive 0
18:12:26 <Lemon> ha ok !
18:14:40 <Ysjoelfir> you could also look at mica caps, if you are.... well.... a bit audiophoolish. those are rather good caps, but also rather expensive.
18:18:58 * T3sl4 papers Ysjoelfir in oil
18:19:49 <T3sl4> which, if you happen to come into some PIO caps, don't worry about them they aren't anything special electrically, however they can sell for a pretty penny to audiophools :)
18:22:54 <Ysjoelfir> thats true. but you know, they sound sooooo warm and nice! ;-P
18:24:10 <Ysjoelfir> I actually have some old soviet PIO caps. like.... 100µ 4kV or something like that. they are square-ish welded metal cans, around the size of four cans of red bull
18:24:48 <Ysjoelfir> I always wanted to use them in a absolutely nonsensical Project I have in mind for what feels like ages
18:25:46 <Lemon> bumblebees too
18:25:50 <Lemon> mmost of them are dead
18:25:53 <Lemon> if not all of them
18:25:58 <Lemon> but for some reasons they love them
18:26:11 <Lemon> fender even made some 'new' ones, it was just a sticker on top of a random cap lol
18:26:54 <Ysjoelfir> The project would be a Parallel-Push-Pull amp with 4 EL8 in the output stages (2 PP pairs in parallel), an EF11 or EF12 as phase shifter and several PC900 as preamplifiers and source selectors (just switching the heaters of the PC900 on/off to change the input source)
18:28:53 <Ysjoelfir> Power supply: 100% tube. PY500 as rectum fryers for the screen grids, AX50 for the anode voltage, stabilized off course
18:28:58 <T3sl4> pfft, do it the tek way, use diff pairs and diode gates
18:30:43 <Ysjoelfir> I'm sure that would look pretty nice. I also have some vintage (but measured good, no concerning leakage) Roederstein capacitors with ~200V and 470µF. they have the typical orange-golden translucent Roederstein Sleeve of the time and would look great on the chassis
18:32:33 <Ysjoelfir> like that - https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/-l8lKAMwDlPINZ-spPoJT0BsNOJNt9lJX5PSb2WEkqoNVoPx3KfKOALTDRhHBDglYW43UZCqq9u0QHZAS4QI7pbNFLKnXcthSSj02AM-MTkauK1igUVl6lf2aKz9sHG6NOERB6ceazca-g
18:33:01 <T3sl4> yeah i have some like that
18:33:58 <Ysjoelfir> I think I should revisit this project in the near future, just for fun. but otoh, output transformers will be a very big PITA to get
18:34:40 <T3sl4> nah, $100 here or there
18:35:58 <Ysjoelfir> for a 100% fun project 100$ is a big pita for me :P maybe I try some older fender (?) transformers I have... they may be a bit on the small side though, IIRC they were made for like 20 Watts
18:36:14 <Ysjoelfir> otoh... what can an EL8 in PP even produce?
18:36:31 <Ysjoelfir> 2W in single ended :D
18:37:01 <T3sl4> i once made a 7 x 12AU7 amp that did all of 10W :P
18:42:37 <Ysjoelfir> I made a.... what was it.... EL91? amp. SE. with a highly wrong output transformer. it produced around 0.5 watts. but it looked cute. EF92 as preamp, EZ90 rectumfryer and two EM..... erm... that very tiny one with the vertical bar
18:46:00 <T3sl4> enough for headphones :P
18:46:31 <Ysjoelfir> using headphones the output transformers would even fit better. :P
18:56:00 Join: Lemon_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:58:47 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
18:58:53 Nick: Lemon_ is now known as Lemon
19:28:01 <Halcyon> Evening all
19:29:24 <T3sl4> hi Halcyon
19:29:24 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) EOF from client
19:30:17 <Ysjoelfir> Hi Halcyon
19:30:57 <steve30> hi Halcyon
19:31:34 <Halcyon> Hello gentlemen
19:31:36 <Halcyon> I need a hug :(
19:32:37 * steve30 curls up on Halcyon's lap
19:32:54 <Halcyon> :)
19:32:58 <Halcyon> I'll take that
19:33:13 * T3sl4 hugs Halcyon
19:33:21 <Halcyon> YAY
19:33:54 <steve30> I've got the AC man coming shortly to pick the money up for the AC installation
19:34:08 <Halcyon> Did you throw it up in the air and go weeeeee
19:34:09 <Halcyon> ?
19:34:30 <steve30> no
19:34:44 <T3sl4> steve30 is more of a tuck-it-in-his-hot-pants-and-make-them-fish-it-out-with-their-teeth guy
19:34:44 <Halcyon> Also, Mark Rober is hawt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFZFjoX2cGg
19:34:45 <steve30> Then we're going for Indian Takeaway tonight
19:35:55 <steve30> Halcyon: My Grandmother phoned this morning to tell us that there's a squirrel on top of the telegraph pole.
19:36:16 <Halcyon> We don't have them here
19:36:19 <Halcyon> But they look cute
19:36:25 <Halcyon> We have possums though
19:38:23 <T3sl4> possums are cute
19:38:46 <T3sl4> i forget if aussie possums are the one thing in australia that doesn't want to kill you, or if american possums are the only ones that dont
19:39:53 <Halcyon> These are the ones we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_brushtail_possum
19:43:08 <steve30> I didn't want to get out of bed this morning. My duvet was too cosy.
19:47:36 * Ysjoelfir higs Halcyon
19:49:33 <Halcyon> :D
19:56:12 <T3sl4> technically, he was already higgsed
20:00:42 <Halcyon> I can be twice higged
20:03:51 <Ysjoelfir> xD
20:04:05 * Ysjoelfir invites everyone for a group higging!
20:05:10 <T3sl4> oh dang, my apricots are starting to go moldy
20:05:25 <T3sl4> cut off the affected areas, put in the fridge, will eat them tomorrow
20:12:29 <Ysjoelfir> throw them in the dehydrator
20:13:18 <Lemon> Ysjoelfir, after the multichannel voltmeter and the decade box, what else could I build ?
20:13:24 <Lemon> I want to build some cool tools
20:13:45 <Lemon> I thought about making a variable bnc attenuator
20:13:50 <Lemon> if you have any idea on how
20:13:56 <Lemon> it shouldnt be hard no ?
20:14:00 <Ysjoelfir> build a spectrum analyzer. DC to 12 GHz should be enough for the beginning :)
20:14:12 <Lemon> I should have said 'doable' :>
20:14:38 <Ysjoelfir> oh, well then.... how about an LED manequin? :D
20:14:57 <Lemon> a tool ! :P actually attenuators could be neat
20:15:04 <Lemon> like a 0 to 1 in 0.1 db steps
20:15:34 <Lemon> and 0 to 10 in 1db, 10 to 100 in 10db steps
20:15:39 <T3sl4> they sell those
20:15:41 <Ysjoelfir> that could be doable. but for that you should ask someone that is more keen in higher frequencies than I am
20:15:52 <Lemon> I know but maybe its cheaper to build one
20:16:13 <Ysjoelfir> building stuff yourself is very rarely cheaper^^
20:16:30 <T3sl4> steps are easily made with switches, but a continuous adjustment is harder; you'd have to buy a pot tapered for that
20:16:36 <Ysjoelfir> I recently decided to buy myself a welder after I have rebuild my DIY one over and over again and never was satisfied
20:16:48 <Ysjoelfir> was way cheaper than all the parts I needed
20:17:18 <Lemon> ye3ah it depends
20:17:24 <Lemon> but an attenuator is what, a few power resistors ?
20:18:04 <T3sl4> sure, but how many GHz does it need to be accurate over? ;)
20:18:15 <Ysjoelfir> I wanted to ask exactly that^^
20:18:30 <Lemon> ho lets say under 6, like most attenuators for sale
20:18:39 <T3sl4> SMA then?
20:18:54 <T3sl4> how many watts?
20:18:54 <Lemon> bnc, but yeah it could be lower
20:19:02 <T3sl4> BNC is trash by 2GHz
20:19:30 <Lemon> well I have a few radiall ones
20:19:33 <Lemon> that goes up to 6Ghz
20:19:38 <Lemon> but yeah thats strange
20:19:58 <Lemon> and how many watts
20:20:15 <Lemon> I guess the same than regular small atenuators like I have, idk how much but maybe 1 watt or so
20:20:56 <T3sl4> feasible to do with chip resistors, but you'll be pushing it, and should budget for making variations/tweaks on each stage until it's flat
20:21:37 <Lemon> https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Mini-Circuits/HAT-20%2b?qs=xZ%2FP%252Ba9zWqZjRVSeGw%252B5gQ%3D%3D
20:21:50 <Lemon> those are up to 2Ghz
20:21:52 <Lemon> 0.5w
20:22:02 <Lemon> specs like that would be fine
20:22:14 <Lemon> id probably rarely use it after 500Mhz
20:25:32 <T3sl4> i made a power attenuator with axial resistors and a TO-220 that seems to do well into that range
20:26:31 <Lemon> I need maybe 1watt max
20:26:39 <Lemon> into 50 ohms thats 50 volts max
20:27:11 <Lemon> I have one extra thumbweel switch, with 3 decades
20:27:17 <Lemon> so I could do 99.9 max db
20:30:55 <T3sl4> ew
20:30:57 <T3sl4> errr*
20:33:35 Join: K ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:33:39 <K> hello
20:34:46 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/SV1Rpez.gif
20:36:22 <K> yaas.
20:36:50 <K> is it summer there yet?
20:37:41 <T3sl4> getting there. it's warming up finally
20:37:47 <T3sl4> been rainy
20:39:00 <K> it is +15 outside for last week here
20:39:03 <steve30> AC man has been. I'm now £4300 lighter.
20:39:19 <T3sl4> that's one pricey lighter
20:39:29 <K> and central heating has been off for the week and a half
20:39:31 <K> brrr
20:39:42 <T3sl4> but pretty cheap considering it's polymorphing a whole steve30
20:40:11 <K> is that a feature or a bug?
20:44:58 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://i.imgur.com/rKiGwgg.jpg
20:46:01 * steve30 has a chicken and mushroom pasty
21:05:46 * Ysjoelfir likes shrooms
22:40:54 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://i.imgur.com/gvWtk3y.jpg
22:43:03 <K> patsy:|
22:43:18 <K> and why did i type "patsy" before?
22:43:33 <T3sl4> the world may never know
22:46:20 <K> such sadness.
22:47:46 <coppice> pasty..... hmmmm, lunch
22:49:18 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving.
22:49:37 Join: T3sl4 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
22:49:38 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Changing hosts
22:49:38 Join: T3sl4 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
22:55:46 * Ysjoelfir dances because soon it's.... erm.... why isn't there an english equivalent to Feierabend? (Meaning the work day is over)
22:56:23 <K> how soon is soon?
22:56:41 * Ampera hugs Ysjoelfir
22:57:12 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, quitting time, whistle blow, clock out, punch out
22:57:29 <Ysjoelfir> around half an hour, K
22:57:39 <Ampera> It's a national holiday today so I get work off!
22:57:41 <Ysjoelfir> Hi Ampera :) Thanks, I read there isn't an equivalent to that^^
22:57:53 <Ampera> There's always an equivalent.
22:57:58 <Ysjoelfir> nice, which one? what are you (supposed to be) celebratiung today?
22:58:04 <Ampera> Memorial day
22:58:13 <Ysjoelfir> so what are you remembering?
22:58:40 <Ampera> huh?
22:58:49 * T3sl4 remembers to hug Ampera
23:01:30 <Ysjoelfir> Isn't a memorial something where you go to remember something that happened in the past?
23:01:57 <T3sl4> Specifically, war memorials, yes.
23:03:47 <Ysjoelfir> Ah, I read it up. even though SWMBO is american I have no real idea about their holidays
23:08:42 <K> all war related memorial days are rolled into one
23:09:38 <Ampera> Today is a day we try to remember what we're supposed to be remembering.
23:09:49 <Ampera> but more importantly I get the day off work
23:09:52 <Ampera> and a shorter week
23:10:18 <Ysjoelfir> K - Nice, if every war related thing would be a holiday, half the year americans wouldn't be working XD
23:10:40 <K> eh, dunno about that
23:27:44 * Ysjoelfir leaves work now
23:27:50 <Ysjoelfir> cu all
23:28:17 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Farvel og har en hyggelige tid :)
23:36:48 <Lemon> hmmm theres something weird on my 3456a
23:37:00 <K> oh no
23:37:17 <Lemon> when I measure a resistor, most of the time the reading is not right, it seems to drift towards negative values
23:37:22 <K> the zeroes have become discombabulated
23:37:29 <Lemon> for example a 4.096M resistor
23:37:38 <Lemon> it shows 3.6 then 3.5. 3.4 etc
23:37:43 <Lemon> once I got the right reading
23:37:47 <Lemon> idk why really
23:40:04 <Lemon> that bothers me
23:40:08 <K> does this happen on all ranges?
23:40:14 <Lemon> yeah
23:40:35 <Lemon> it measured it correctly for a minute, then came back to the weird results
23:40:47 <Lemon> without me touching anything
23:41:17 <K> can you measure power supply rails inside the unit?
23:43:11 <Lemon> well its working perfectly on other functions such as VDC etc
23:43:16 <Lemon> so I doubt thats the issue
23:43:21 <Lemon> im going to try rear outputs
23:43:23 <K> hm,
23:43:30 <K> have you run the self-test?
23:44:01 <Lemon> yes it passed
23:45:40 <Lemon> so rear terminals seems to work fine
23:45:43 <Lemon> thats weird
23:46:00 <Lemon> im going to leave it a bit
23:46:57 <Lemon> I get 4.09125M ohms
23:47:14 <Lemon> its a big fluke 4.091M 0.1% resistor
23:47:28 <Lemon> it came from a broken ohms module of my 8502a
23:47:33 <Lemon> those things are rock stable
23:47:43 <Lemon> sadly weird values
23:48:12 <Lemon> I have another 2.01K 0.1% and 272.84K 0.08%
23:49:21 <Lemon> hmmmm I fiddle with the fron buttons
23:49:36 <Lemon> that put terminals to low or open (guard) and the terminal selector (front/back)
23:49:43 <Lemon> seems the problem comes from here
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