#d&d - 2012-02-14 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2012-02-14

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« 2012-02-13 2012-02-15 »
00:08 <Hydrazine_> wednesday night for you is tuesday morning for me.
00:11 <mekkis_> 1d6 
00:12 <Hydrazine_> and i'm doing job stuff.
00:15 <mekkis_> plus strength
00:18 <Mort-> With dealing with armor bonuses as whip?
00:55 <Mort-> Anyway mek isn't running it here
01:23 <Mort-> I got a weird concept of a rogue dual wielding two whips
01:36 <Mort-> With gang up feat
01:55 <Mort-> So he sits behind melee wall and sneak attacks
02:42 <mekkis_> Mort-, you'll never find a "melee wall" in PFS
04:03 <Mort-> The demons were charging buck
04:03 <Mort-> And hitomi
04:03 <Mort-> Actually the ds
04:17 <Mort-> So late tonight
04:31 <Mort-> Go back home. Take a bath. Pass out.
05:33 <Mort-> Uh. Hydra
05:54 <Mort-> Between +1 dmg to your hits and toughness
06:00 <Mort-> What would you choose
06:13 <Mort-> Actually mek. You too
06:28 <Hydrazine_> hm.
06:33 <Mort-> Combat reflexes. Arcane strike or toughness
06:34 <Mort-> Choose 2 out of 3
06:40 <Hydrazine_> my head says toughness, but my heart says damage.
06:50 <Mort-> I like to do dmg too
06:55 <mekkis_> Mort-, combat reflexes and Spell Penetration!
07:03 <Mort-> Means my magus won't get it
07:05 <Mort-> No
07:11 <mekkis_> arcane strike and toughness are pretty shit
07:18 <Mort-> I won't get spell penetration
07:28 <mekkis_> dodge
07:28 <Mort-> I'm not a caster
07:31 <mekkis_> weapon focus
07:31 <Mort-> So to speak
07:35 <mekkis_> skill focus
07:36 <Mort-> Already done
07:46 <Mort-> Weapon focus i can take
07:49 <Mort-> Or not
07:57 <Mort-> Its +1 to hits
08:00 <Mort-> I rather dmg
08:12 <mekkis_> don't be like Avatar
08:16 <mekkis_> Weapon Focus is good
08:16 <Mort-> I have ways to hit if i want to
08:23 <mekkis_> Furious Focus is also good
08:27 <Mort-> Can probably start fudging the dice
08:29 <Mort-> At 6
08:35 <Mort-> With a true strike wand
09:03 <Mort-> And wand wielder
09:04 <Mort-> I can't miss that way
11:25 <Mort-> Will skill focus
11:32 <Mort-> Apply to your familiar
11:42 <Mort-> He uses your skill mods
11:57 <Mort-> I think mort might pick that up strangely
13:10 <Mort-> I wish there was a way for jerus to true strike and attack on same round
13:18 <Mort-> Again. That's a  bit too horrible to contemplate
13:47 <Mort-> And hydra i realised that the enlarge trick might work on me as well
13:48 <Mort-> Lol
14:03 <Mort-> A big magus :d
15:50 <Mort-> Cool thing about some stuff
16:05 <Mort-> The spell i cast say acid grasp 
16:14 <Mort-> I attack and miss
16:21 <Mort-> I'm still holding the charge
16:32 <Mort-> Next sound i screw spell combat
16:55 <Mort-> Double hit while wielding scimitar
17:10 <Mort-> Using 2 hands
52:03 <Avatar> I found another map of golarion
52:12 <Avatar> which doesn't look like the regular inner seas map
52:21 <Avatar> and actually looks like a proper round world
04:31 <Mort-> Ah
04:40 <Mort-> Time to hit pack
04:43 <Mort-> Sack
04:45 Mort- has quit (Quit: Bye)
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31:58 Ballig1 is now known as Ballig
51:09 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Sat 11am (Brunius, new game) | CoTE: TBA || All times are AEDT (UTC+11:00) | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://dnd.ballig.net
51:09 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Mon Feb 13 19:15:06 2012
35:18 <Avatar> bards and druids have a level 1 spell that let you move normally in difficult terrain
35:26 <Avatar> 10 min/level
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57:03 <Brunius_AFK> Sah?
58:22 <Avatar> english, please
59:21 <Avatar> how's this for coincidence
59:35 <Avatar> we played our first game of BTD 1 exactly one year before the second game that was played with darkwhite
59:55 <Ballig> Brunius_AFK: his druid will now forever be casting that spell on my cavalier's mount
00:16 <Avatar> I don't know if I'll ever get to use that character
00:19 <Avatar> mr level 6 man
00:47 <Ballig> Bobbob is level 5
00:49 <Ballig> mr level 6 man
01:02 <Avatar> close enough
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52:45 <mekkis_> Avatar, you have a cavalier?
03:38 <mekkis_> I think the FAIL you get on dnd.ballig.net
03:45 <mekkis_> when updating stuff you've played
04:50 Hydrazine ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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22:44 tristen ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
42:59 Hydrazine_ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
46:15 <tristen> hey hydrazine
46:19 Hydrazine has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
46:30 <tristen> bye hydrazine
19:04 <Hydrazine_> Whoops.
19:07 Hydrazine_ is now known as Hydrazine
19:17 <Hydrazine> Yo.
25:29 Hydrazine has quit (EOF from client)
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32:12 <tristen> heya hydrazine
32:29 <tristen> i've added a round counter now
32:38 <tristen> and tidied up the interface a bit
32:56 <tristen> made it a bit clearer to see what's what with regards to characters and their markers on the map
33:21 <Hydrazine> Ah.
33:23 <Hydrazine> I'll take a look.
33:27 <Hydrazine> Hows the 2h fighter?
33:53 <tristen> oh he's ok!
34:01 <Hydrazine> link me so i can take a look?
34:17 <tristen> i'll upload him...
34:22 <tristen> gimme a bit
35:49 <tristen> hmmm
35:58 <tristen> i thought avatar created him 
36:23 <tristen> but i'm going to make him one of those two-handed fighters (archetype)
36:28 <Hydrazine> Right.
36:53 <Hydrazine> Kind of a shame they didn't convert over the 3.5 power attack tree anywhere else.
36:54 <tristen> and he has str: 18 dex: 16 con: 14 wis: 10 cha: 9 int: er, 7
36:58 <Hydrazine> Even here its a kind of weak case.
36:58 <tristen> heheh
37:31 <Hydrazine> I considered similar for Jerus.
37:46 <Hydrazine> but I decided that I did want to work on some combat manuever feats.
37:52 <tristen> he's going to be like acrobatic if i can manage it
37:57 <Hydrazine> So I adjusted to get my int up to 13.
38:15 <tristen> wow yeah that "clever" feat?
38:24 <tristen> what's it called? need int 13
38:25 <tristen> for it
38:29 <Hydrazine> combat expertise.
38:36 <tristen> there we go
38:41 <Hydrazine> which nobody ever takes for itself.
38:57 <Hydrazine> they take it because you can't get to any of the imp. combat manuevers without it.
39:15 <tristen> yeah everyone's busy dumping int for fighters :)
39:17 <Hydrazine> i dumped wis and cha.
39:29 <tristen> yeah i held on to wis
39:31 <tristen> at least +0
39:34 <Hydrazine> but i do miss the imp power attack line.
39:49 <Hydrazine> which i think was class features for frenzy 'zerker and not actually open feats.
40:32 <tristen> hey hydra are you in the us?
40:41 <Hydrazine> yes.
40:50 <tristen> is walking dead going to air soonish?
40:57 <Hydrazine> i think so?
41:03 <Hydrazine> i haven't checked recently.
41:06 <tristen> cool
41:52 <tristen> bloody hell 16 episodes
41:57 <tristen> for season 3
42:10 <tristen> i hope it doesn't descend into a soap opera
42:31 <tristen> season 2 distinctly smelled like soap most of the time...
01:30 <Hydrazine> i've seen season one, but i didn't see two yet.
05:14 <tristen> yeah two sort of "settled down" to be a bit of a soap opera, but it was still good
12:35 <Hydrazine> huh!
12:40 <Hydrazine> there is a pfs- frenzy zerker.
12:44 <Hydrazine> don't think its pfs legal though.
14:41 <Hydrazine> not nearly as brual as the 3.5version.
17:24 <Avatar> zzzzz
27:38 <tristen> avatar the killer bee
30:09 <tristen> gawd and game of thrones season 2 isn't until april
30:19 <tristen> it's cruel!
33:34 <Hydrazine> lol
33:39 <Hydrazine> i haven't been watching them yet.
33:42 <Hydrazine> read any of it, Tris?
38:07 <tristen> no i haven't read 'em
38:27 <tristen> just took the low brain activity approach
51:12 <Hydrazine> pssh.
51:18 <Hydrazine> you're missing out son.
51:49 <Hydrazine> if it helps, even though i've only seen a handful of episodes, they did well at keeping it to the story. with one rather minor exception that i've noticed.
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38:53 <MekkisScreen> moin
39:32 <MekkisScreen> feat trees suck :P
28:10 <tristen> hey hydrazine got a sec?
28:15 <Hydrazine> i guess?
28:24 <tristen> http://www.journeyo.com/public/combat/yvghudpelkagoysjiqjapvxpvyoyvi
29:18 <Hydrazine> but can players type in it?
29:36 <tristen> fuck yeah
29:53 <tristen> just a second i'll add you as a player
30:02 <Hydrazine> how does that work?
30:47 <Hydrazine> at this rate you're gonna replace the IRC and CA.
31:03 <tristen> lol no it won't replace it
31:10 <tristen> but hit refresh on that page
31:20 <tristen> do you now have the prompts to enter stuff?
31:26 <tristen> (untested as yet i hope it's ok)
32:02 <Hydrazine> ye
32:03 <Hydrazine> s
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45:16 <Avatar> Hydrazine: click pathfinder society on the site and tick off which scenarios you've played
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57:14 <MekkisScreen> I had it say FAIL
57:23 <MekkisScreen> i red
00:22 <Brunius_AFK> Man
00:24 <Brunius_AFK> So much traffic
00:28 Brunius_AFK is now known as Brunius
08:33 <Brunius> Half an hour to travel like a km
08:51 <Avatar> I can get out and run faster than this!
17:46 <Brunius> I was considering it
18:07 <Brunius> Bus driver lets us off, and sods law dictates that the traffic starts moving again at that instant
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41:31 <Spaceshot_> I really need to get proper internet soon
42:12 <Spaceshot_> Brunius: when do you and your friend want to buy the models?
42:34 <Brunius> I've got the cash anytime, I just need at least a day to get to the bank to pull it out
42:38 <Brunius> I'll consult my friend
42:59 <Spaceshot_> I'd prefer both at the same time, but it's fine just one at a time too
45:08 <Spaceshot_> I also took my dads ogres with me
45:28 <Spaceshot_> that's the only fantasy I've got, unless you count the dark elves and slannesh that I'm turning into dark eldar
47:06 <Brunius> So you're in melbourne now?
50:32 <Spaceshot_> yea since yesterday
51:22 <Brunius> Cool stuff
51:34 <Avatar> how good is it
51:36 <Brunius> You should go to PFS @ Blackburn on sundays!
51:37 <Avatar> melbourne, that is
51:59 <Spaceshot_> I might
52:12 <Spaceshot_> I came from adelaide, a shoebox is better :P
52:31 <Avatar> you prefer adelaide to melbourne?
52:45 <Spaceshot_> no, I'm saying adelaide is a shithole and anything else is better 
52:49 <Avatar> ah
52:51 <Brunius> he means a shoebox is better than adelaide
52:52 <Avatar> I was gonna say
53:00 <Spaceshot_> at least brunius understands
53:03 <Brunius> Although Melbourne has Avatar in it
53:12 <Spaceshot_> I'll take the risk
53:13 <Brunius> Sydney might be cool
53:16 <Avatar> hey !
53:21 <Brunius> It doesn't seem to have anyone in it yet
53:26 <Brunius> Ballig is a bit close though
53:39 <Avatar> why all the people hate brunius
53:41 <Brunius> And the Nerf community there is pretty good
53:52 <Spaceshot_> nerf? lrn2paintball
53:59 <Spaceshot_> even laser tag is better
54:03 <Avatar> what's nerf
54:12 <Brunius> Haha, lazer tag is inferior to the way we play
54:16 <Spaceshot_> plastic guns that fire foam bullets
54:27 <Brunius> We've got people getting 500ft from their guns
54:42 <Spaceshot_> again, lrn2paintball
54:45 <Avatar> paintball ftw
55:00 <Brunius> It's illegal here, Spaceshot
55:04 <Brunius> Have to be over 18
55:05 <Spaceshot_> though I'd want to use my own markers
55:11 <Avatar> seriously? over 18?
55:13 <Brunius> Even if in SA it's over 10
55:15 <Brunius> YEah
55:20 <Brunius> Completely banned in Tassie
55:21 Ballig has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
55:24 <Spaceshot_> haha
55:28 <Brunius> Over 16 in NSW
55:37 <Spaceshot_> we should have a paintball party the day before brunius hits 17 avatar
55:38 <Brunius> Probably get away with anything in ACT though
55:41 <Spaceshot_> 18*
55:45 Ballig ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
56:14 <Avatar> I don't know if I want to wait that long yo
56:40 <Brunius> You guys should have a paintball party every year after conquest
57:09 <Avatar> not after conquest
57:13 <Avatar> pathfinder is exhausting
57:16 <Brunius> Right before arcanacon
57:33 <Avatar> I can't believe you have to be over 18
57:34 <Spaceshot_> I need to get my marker/s XD
57:44 <Brunius> It's Victoria's stupid laws, Avatar
57:47 <Brunius> It's over 10 in SA
57:50 <Avatar> I played in qld when I was 15
57:52 <Spaceshot_> yup
58:01 <Brunius> Over 12 in QLD IIRC
58:08 <Spaceshot_> though you can't own your own marker unless you have a level 0 firearms license
58:19 <Avatar> who cares about owning your own gun if they hand them out 
58:31 <Spaceshot_> because usually their guns are shit
58:36 <Brunius> Owning your own would get you points
58:45 <Spaceshot_> average range, crap accuracy and pretty average look
58:58 <Brunius> Even in nerf, i prefer a pistol to something better that I'm not familiar with
59:01 <Spaceshot_> I'd get a hand gun and a long ranged gun
59:09 <Brunius> Because at least I know what I'm expecting with my gun
59:16 <Brunius> With a strange gun, who knows?
59:23 <Brunius> Maybe it has a tendency to veer to the right
59:26 <Spaceshot_> long ranged as in semi-auto with a scope + long nozzle or a semi-auto sniper
59:56 <Spaceshot_> if you intend to play in fields having your own markers are ideal
00:04 <Brunius> They should hurry up and invent cryogenics
00:06 <Spaceshot_> since you'll need certain markers for certain jobs
00:11 <Brunius> So I can sleep away the next three years
00:13 <Brunius> And be 18!
00:23 <Spaceshot_> Brunius: you do realise you don't really age in cryo right?
00:28 <Brunius> Yeah, and?
00:38 <Spaceshot_> then you wouldn't technically be 18
00:41 <Brunius> If it's cutting edge the law won't have caught up yet
00:46 <Spaceshot_> it'd be in the cryogenic laws
01:12 <Spaceshot_> they'll law that shit before it's in alpha testing if it's government funded
01:33 <Brunius> Pfft govt. funding
01:34 <Avatar> forget the government
01:39 <Brunius> Gotta change compys, brb
01:41 <Avatar> the government invented selection criteria
01:43 <Avatar> what do they know
02:00 <Spaceshot_> they have a lot of disposable cash for scientists
03:03 <Avatar> so does google
03:55 <Spaceshot_> :P
04:20 <Spaceshot_> they're too busy making phones
04:30 <Avatar> and optimising search
05:09 <Spaceshot_> also, I need to look at iinet or internode (I know I know) about hooking up internet in my room (uni lodge)
05:22 <Avatar> go iinet
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05:48 <Spaceshot_> how much do you think it'd cost to set it up?
05:52 <Brunius_> $2000
06:02 <Spaceshot_> nice contribution to the conversation
06:05 <Avatar> I set mine up years ago, you won't want my figures
06:10 <Brunius_> No problem
06:19 <Avatar> I think it's like $150-250
06:22 <Brunius_> What are you setting up?
06:44 <Avatar> I stupidly decided to still use my landline when I set mine up
06:44 <Spaceshot_> internet in my uni lodge room
06:50 <Avatar> I want to switch to naked 
06:57 <Spaceshot_> don't want to go with the company they're suggesting
07:02 <Spaceshot_> I can go naked
07:06 <Brunius_> hawt
07:16 <Spaceshot_> want pics?
07:16 <Spaceshot_> XD
07:21 <Brunius_> Eww
07:22 <Brunius_> No
07:56 <Avatar> pics of cables
08:15 <Avatar> what kind of quota do you want
09:02 <Spaceshot_> wtf... iinet is shit expensive
09:22 <Brunius_> Go with internode
09:45 <Spaceshot_> yea fuck iinet
09:46 <Avatar> internode is pretty similar pricing
09:56 <Spaceshot_> I dunno
09:58 <Brunius_> Additionally, internode is owned by iinet...
10:19 <Spaceshot_> yes, but internode is still a seperate company
10:22 <Spaceshot_> at least for the time being
10:25 <Brunius_> For the moment
12:55 <Spaceshot_> wow naked is expensive
13:47 <Avatar> it's less expensive than a landline you'll never use
14:19 <Spaceshot_> maybe
14:29 <Brunius_> Landlines are great
14:33 <Spaceshot_> $70 for 50on + 50off seems expensive to me
15:26 <Avatar> yell out if you find better
15:35 <Avatar> decent internet isn't particular cheap in australia :P
15:55 <Avatar> tpg is your budget isp I believe
16:04 <Spaceshot_> my dad pays $70 (I think) for $250 with line rental
17:00 <Brunius_> I've got $80 for 200gb here
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18:59 <Brunius_> Fuzzy
19:04 <Brunius_> Roll up a character !
19:27 <Ballig> Brunius: roll up a character !
19:28 <Brunius_> I have several, actually
19:48 <Spaceshot_> roll up a chivalry and sorcery character
19:54 <Brunius_> I'm waiting on rolling my gunsligner until dragon empires gazetter arrives
20:11 <Fuzzy> Spaceshot?
20:40 <Brunius_> mode -R, Spaceshoyt
20:44 <Brunius_> Spaceshot, even
20:56 <Fuzzy> ?
21:11 <Brunius_> So that unregistered users (such as you and I) can message him
21:53 <Fuzzy> Ah ok. Mode-R, Spaceshot
22:01 <Avatar> Brunius: invent your own lines !
22:03 <Brunius_> He needs to set it
22:07 <Brunius_> Avatar: No way !
22:57 <Avatar> I decided to dump charisma on my druid this morning
23:09 <Avatar> I was going to take the high road, but I couldn't handle it
23:11 <Brunius_> Uh-oh
23:20 <Ballig> well
23:20 <Ballig> it's not that bad
23:20 <Ballig> you can dump it as a 7 and still come out with a 9
23:24 <Avatar> yeah
23:25 <Brunius_> Spaceshot, y u no around
23:31 <Avatar> I wanted to keep it as 8 > 10
23:37 <Ballig> also legitimate
23:47 <Avatar> but those 2 extra points were just too valuable
23:47 <Ballig> ha
23:47 <Avatar> wisdom is fantastic on a druid
23:59 <Ballig> yeah everything is wisdom
24:32 <Avatar> I actually felt like a weight had been lifted when I adjusted all the stats
24:50 <Avatar> it was like, wow extra perception, extra will save, extra spell save DC
25:17 <Ballig> ha
25:17 <Ballig> starting with a 20 wisdom?
25:17 <Avatar> what do I lose out on? -1 diplomacy and not much else
25:17 <Avatar> 18 wisdom
25:17 <Ballig> before or after racials?
25:17 <Avatar> after
25:28 <Avatar> 14 14 12 12 18 9
25:39 <Ballig> cool
25:46 <Avatar> had to drop con from 13 to 12 too
25:46 <Avatar> but that's no biggy
25:48 <Avatar> until something crits me
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26:41 <Spaceshot_> hahaha did I scare him?
26:45 <Ballig> so will you be preparing shillalegh every encounter?
26:45 <Avatar> I'm still considering maybe breaking either my str or dex
26:54 <Brunius_> You didn't respond
27:03 <Spaceshot_> no I didn't, and it was a joke :P
27:07 <Avatar> I've got a trait that gives me an exotic weap proficiency
27:10 <Brunius_> mode -R yo
27:12 <Avatar> that I'm not sure I'll even really need
27:15 <Spaceshot_> but why?
27:15 <Brunius_> He was the guy after the Tau
27:19 <Spaceshot_> ohhh
27:25 <Spaceshot_> I thought I was mode -R
27:44 <Spaceshot_> how do I mode -R on icechat?
27:55 <Avatar> same way you do on mirc
27:57 <Brunius_> ./mode Spaceshot -R
27:59 <Avatar> do /mode Spaceshot_ -R
28:02 <Spaceshot_> oh yea need the name :P
28:05 <Spaceshot_> that's what I forgot
28:09 Fuzzy ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
28:16 <Avatar> Fuzzy: roll up a character !
28:28 <Brunius_> We are rather fond of rolling up characters
28:32 <Brunius_> Don't know if you guessed
28:41 <Avatar> quiet brunius I've got this
29:13 <Spaceshot_> I've rolled up 3
29:21 <Spaceshot_> and I've only played 2 of them once each :P
29:23 <Brunius_> 6, one of which is dead
29:45 <Brunius_> (and another of which was dead once, and is now retiring from the pathfinder business)
29:57 <Fuzzy> Spaceshot! Tau and stuff
30:32 <Spaceshot_> yea, just gimme a sec
30:47 <Spaceshot_> Avatar: what's the website used for the online pathfinder sheets
30:48 <Spaceshot_> ?
30:52 <Spaceshot_> the ones after the sessions
31:07 <Brunius_> chronicle sheets?
31:11 <Spaceshot_> yea those
31:24 <Spaceshot_> I didn't save the pdf but the link is in my history
31:36 <Spaceshot_> and yes Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear?
35:05 Fuzzy has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
35:08 <Avatar> I'm guessing it's the same as the link in your history?
35:38 <Spaceshot_> found it
36:42 <Spaceshot_> and the internet provider in house is 125on + 125off for $70 but the second result on google for the company is that it's slow, but it was posted 2 years ago
38:09 <Spaceshot_> anywho, gonna make food now, if I don't return it's cause we're out to the movies
38:16 Spaceshot_ is now known as Spaceshot_AFK
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38:01 Barmaley ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
38:05 <mekkis_> have any of you played the Amoung The [dead|living|gods] scenarios?
38:16 <mekkis_> Greetings Barmaley!
38:43 <mekkis_> From Austria?
39:23 <mekkis_> Aus Osterreich?
22:49 Brunius has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
23:05 <Barmaley> hey mekkis, sry was afk
23:09 <Barmaley> yes, austria
26:04 <Avatar> catch off-guard is a pretty sexy feat
26:15 <Avatar> requires you to never want to magick up your weapon though
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44:17 <mekkis_> Avatar, I think Grolschmir will take Throw Anything
47:32 <mekkis_> Avatar, Unarmed opponents?
47:42 <mekkis_> how often you you have a problem while facing them?
47:52 <mekkis_> how often do* you have a problem while facing them?
48:35 Namagem ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
48:41 <Namagem> Hey
48:45 <mekkis_> hey
49:09 <Namagem> I'm just looking for a place to talk about dnd to likeminded people
49:25 <Mekkis> how often do you play?
49:30 <Mekkis> and what editions?
49:40 <Namagem> I DM a game every week, and play in another
49:52 <Namagem> 4e, though I can play just about anything
50:24 <Namagem> And now I'm shunned
50:27 <Namagem> Right?
50:32 <Namagem> Is that how this works?
50:39 <Mekkis> not completely
50:46 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
50:52 <Mekkis> maybe by Brunius 
51:00 <Brunius> Hydrazine will get his own colour
51:08 <Brunius> What colour do you want to be Hydrazine?
51:17 <Mekkis> Brunius, you shun people who play 4e, right?
51:32 <Brunius> I haven't had cause to come into contact with any.
51:42 <Mekkis> well, maybe I was wrong
51:45 <Namagem> I really don't care what other people think, as long as they're likewise openminded
52:00 <Mekkis> I approached 4e with an open mind
52:02 <Namagem> I'm new to the channel, so I don't wantto cause a ruckus
52:16 <Brunius> Don't pull a Mavor!
52:20 <Mekkis> I decided it wasn't for me, but I'm not one to call one a heretic for playing it
52:42 <Namagem> I like to think I'm fairly proficient at running it
52:52 <Mekkis> I've never run it
52:57 <Mekkis> I heard that it was easy
53:20 <Mekkis> I also heard that when I play it, it starts almost becoming like a LARP rather than D&D
53:41 <Mekkis> (because I really don't like how long combat takes)
53:53 <Namagem> That's an opinion, and a distortion of some facts
54:09 <Mekkis> indeed it is
54:44 <Namagem> I won't lie, combat can take a while, but when I play and when I run, I never notice how long it takes. A really good long game can seem a lot shorter than a really short game that is painfully drug out
54:51 <Namagem> It all depends on how it's run
55:47 <Mekkis> yeah
55:50 <Namagem> I've also played sessions entirely without combat that were just as fun, and my current game is experimenting with a classic dungeon crawl
56:08 <Mekkis> 4e did teach me a lot about roleplaying
58:03 <Namagem> So yeah, I won't disturb your guys or hate on what you play. I'll admit that 3.x is not my favorite system, and I have yet to play pathfinder to see the differences
58:21 <Namagem> But to each their own.
58:27 <Mekkis> most of what's played in this channel is Pathfinder
58:50 <Namagem> I do have the beginner box, and I've skimmed the guide
59:29 <Namagem> You guys know about Maptool, right?
59:41 <Mekkis> we do
59:46 <Mekkis> and we don't use it :S
59:55 <Namagem> Alright
00:07 <Namagem> I rely on it pretty heavily, personally
01:06 <Mekkis> we have an internally developed tool
01:15 <Namagem> I noticed; it's pretty swanky
01:18 <Mekkis> yeah
01:24 <Mekkis> it has less features
01:31 <Ballig> intentionally
01:43 <Brunius> Who needs fancy features
01:49 <Mekkis> indeed
01:50 <Ballig> too many features = bloat
01:51 <Brunius> mIRC needs more colours for nicks
01:59 <Brunius> I'm running out of colours to assign
02:04 <Ballig> ha. "who needs fancy features? mIRC needs more colour sfor nicks"
02:08 <Namagem> I like a lot of the features maptool has, though. One that I find it hard to live without is tilesets.
02:23 <Mekkis> mIRC should stop butchering RFC1459
02:33 <Brunius> Screw RFC1459
02:36 <Namagem> And macros are handy too, as is vision blocking layer
02:42 <Namagem> so vOv
03:00 <Mekkis> Brunius, well, stop using it then :)
03:23 <Namagem> I'm on XChat
03:44 <Brunius> Yeah, XChat!
04:09 <Mekkis> Brunius wants to use linux, but doesn't have the willpower to make the switch :)
04:21 <Namagem> I got okay at mIRC scripting, though
04:32 <Ballig> if it requires willpower, you have to ask why you want to use it at all
04:33 <Brunius> I've outlined my reasons Mekkis
04:38 <Namagem> Like, good enough to do basic things
04:46 <Brunius> When I get a laptop, it will use linux.
05:05 <Brunius> However, as I use this computer mainly for gaming, and WINE screws with that, linux is of no use.
05:05 <Namagem> Linux, IMO, is not great for your primary computer
05:08 <Ballig> I used to use it, there's no reason for it
05:14 <Ballig> except geek cred
05:32 <Namagem> I heard a rumor that steam was going to go linux compatible before long
05:38 <Brunius> pffft
05:51 <Brunius> I don't think that's gonna happen without some serious work for steam
06:03 <Namagem> This is valve we're talking about
06:11 <Namagem> anything can happen
06:12 <Mekkis> that rumour was around 18 months ago
06:25 <Namagem> It's been recirculating
06:27 <Avatar> I heard hl2:ep3 is coming out
06:35 <Namagem> At least, around certain areas
06:47 <Namagem> That's silly
06:55 <Namagem> Hl 3 is coming out
07:08 <Brunius> hl2:ep3 code has been leaked
07:22 <Namagem> Wait, seriously
07:31 <Brunius> Not much
07:43 <Brunius> It slipped out with the DotA 2 beta IIRC
07:47 <Namagem> Ah
08:16 <Namagem> I have a question
08:37 <Namagem> Or rather a series of questions leading to a larger question
08:37 <Mekkis> mmm?
08:45 <Namagem> Do you guys watch much TV?
08:55 <Ballig> TV or TV shows?
09:06 <Namagem> Shows mostly
09:11 <Ballig> I watch TV shows
09:12 <Brunius> Not really
09:31 <Namagem> Do you watch any current cartoons?
09:48 <Ballig> does south park, the simpsons or futurama count
09:57 <Namagem> They do, but not what I was going for
10:06 <Ballig> I don't watch anime
10:11 <Namagem> Not that either
10:19 <Ballig> I don't watch pokemon?
10:23 <Namagem> There's a show out that I'm pretty into
10:24 <Brunius> I watch "anime"
10:33 <Mekkis> not at all: I don't have a TV
10:33 <Namagem> That came out last year
10:46 <Mekkis> occasionally I download the odd Burn Notice episode
11:14 <Namagem> That has really good voice acting, great characterization, witty jokes, clever references and puns, and a not-terrible and sometimes really good plot
11:21 <Namagem> And it's a cartoon aimed at kids
11:38 <Ballig> are you wanting to know if you're a bad person
11:44 <Namagem> Not really
12:14 <Namagem> I'm wanting to know if you guys had seen it yet
15:39 <Mekkis> you haven't told us its name
15:54 <***> Buffer Playback...
15:54 <***> Playback Complete.
15:55 <Namagem> Yes
16:02 <Namagem> Little pastel magical ponies
16:18 <Brunius> that control the weather
16:18 <Namagem> And it's actually pretty badass at points
16:28 <Ballig> give me an example of badass
16:30 <Namagem> There's one pegasis who flies so fast that she goes mach 10
16:38 <Brunius> and makes the weather
17:19 <Namagem> And a unicorn (unicorns have innate magical abilities) who quite literally goes Phoenix
17:30 <Namagem> (jean grey)
17:46 <Namagem> And all sorts of Dnd monsters make it into the mix
17:51 <Ballig> I wasn't into those kinds of cartoons even when I was a kid
18:09 <Namagem> Manticores, hydras, several different dragons, a cockatrice
18:22 <Ballig> being fought by ponies
18:28 <Ballig> have they made an RPG of it yet
18:31 <Namagem> No
18:41 <Namagem> there are third party things made by fans, though
18:54 <Namagem> Including a pathfinder race, a 4e race, and tond of others
19:02 <Namagem> Also Savage worlds races
19:04 <Brunius> Someone posted the pathfinder race in here
19:05 <Mekkis> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-unW80qnxYk0/TZDRsMRXp0I/AAAAAAAACtA/KClSRhRKY6E/s1600/Ponyfinder+Pegasus+%252826%2529.jpg
19:07 mib_dlcoh2 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
19:09 <Ballig> yeah, I can see people playing campaigns full of ponies
19:19 <Mekkis> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4vHD31vO4DQ/TZDR_MbF81I/AAAAAAAACtI/PU-g-QuscJc/s1600/Ponyfinder+Earth+Pony+text+fix+%252824%2529+%2528fo+reals%2529+balanced.jpg
19:42 <Brunius> mib_dlcoh2: Roll up a character !
20:44 <Avatar> you're doing it all wrong brunius
20:50 <Namagem> And all the episodes are up on youtube
21:05 <Brunius> You do it then, Avatar
21:08 <Namagem> And hasbro hasn't taken action against anything except for leaks
21:14 <Avatar> I'll do it as appropriate
23:24 <Namagem> Is anyone here up for watching the pilot in a synchtube?
23:40 <Ballig> are you coming on to me
23:47 <Namagem> Not in the slightest
23:57 <Namagem> I'm already taken, thank you
24:24 mib_dlcoh2 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
24:58 <Brunius> lurking lurker is lurking
25:04 <Ballig> does she dress up as a pony
25:37 <Brunius> Ballig, not all bronies are crazy
25:43 <Brunius> Some are, but most aren't
26:09 <Namagem> Yeah
26:17 <Namagem> it's the 80/20 rule 
26:22 <Brunius> 80/20 rule?
26:25 Daer ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
26:31 <Namagem> In any community, 20 percent of the membership is batshit insane
26:38 <Ballig> sorry, if you call yourself a brony, then you are crazy
26:42 <Namagem> The remaining 80% is pretty good
26:43 <Ballig> and probably dress up as a pony to have sex :(
26:55 <Namagem> I actually really hate the sexulaization of ponies
27:07 <Ballig> ha
27:14 <Ballig> Bronies Against the Sexualisation of Ponies
27:15 <Ballig> BASP
28:02 <Mekkis> that sounds like a made-up statistic
28:06 <Brunius> You know what sucks?
28:10 <Brunius> Sleep.
28:10 <Brunius> Night guys
28:16 Brunius is now known as Brunius_AFK
28:24 <Mekkis> I feel that about 80% of the people on the other side of the phone, when I'm at work, are stupid
28:27 <Namagem> the 80-20 rule is actually a thing
28:56 <Mekkis> I know
29:08 <Namagem> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
29:15 <Mekkis> it's "make up a statistic with the majority at 80% and the minority at 20%"
29:21 <Mekkis> 80% of statistics are made up
29:31 <Ballig> is this one of the 20%
29:45 <Namagem> "for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes"
29:52 <Namagem> Is the actual rule
30:44 <Namagem> 80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients
30:45 <Namagem> ^Trufac, by the way
30:45 <Brunius_AFK> So it's the 20% that are batshit crazy making 80% of you look batshit crazy?
30:53 <Namagem> Exactly
31:09 <Namagem> The vocal minority effect
31:40 <Ballig> do you call yourself a brony, Namagem
31:43 <Brunius_AFK> Get a lot of that in 40k forums
31:59 <Namagem> I don't dislike that label, but I don't go around calling myself it
32:06 <Ballig> are you a brony
32:07 <Mekkis> so if I come up with 5 reasons why we get phone calls, the 80% of the people who call will be the bottom 20% - stupid
32:40 <Namagem> That seems like one extension of it
32:50 <Mekkis> 1. Hardware error 2. OS error 3. Network error 4. Error with Our Software 5. User is stupid
32:56 Spaceshot_AFK ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
33:20 Daer has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
33:38 <Mekkis> Ballig, is it a good idea to apply for a job that I know I'll get offered, but I know I won't accept?
34:03 <Ballig> only if you plan on using it as leverage at your current job
34:08 <Ballig> otherwise it seems like a waste of time
34:17 <Namagem> Because I can't get synchtube to work
34:22 <Namagem> Here's the first episode
34:23 <Namagem> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBcH6Sfvog
34:26 <Avatar> has something happened with bf3 that causes it to boot people all the time
34:39 <Namagem> It's been removed
34:44 <Namagem> Let me find another
35:01 tristen has quit (Quit: leaving)
35:23 <Namagem> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_0Ea2nW0YY
35:26 <Namagem> There you go
35:57 <Namagem> Humor me, okay ballig?
36:09 <Ballig> do you actually want me to watch it
36:13 <Ballig> how long is it
36:14 <Namagem> Yeah
36:17 <Namagem> 22 minutes
36:29 <Ballig> yeah I'm not watching it :p
36:30 <Namagem> It's a full episode
36:35 <Namagem> Actually part 1 of a two part
36:48 <Namagem> The pilot
36:49 <Ballig> what if I watch 2 minutes of it
37:10 <Namagem> You might see enough to get hooked
37:23 <Ballig> okay I'll watch 2 minutes of it
37:23 <Namagem> Or you might see enough to make impractical judgements
37:35 <Avatar> sounds like you won't take no for an answer
37:41 <Namagem> Eh
37:52 <Namagem> I will, I just want to see what you guys think
37:58 <Ballig> that's a pretty unimaginative name
38:00 <Ballig> equestria
38:22 <Ballig> oh, the black one has to be evil
38:23 <Ballig> that's racist
38:36 <Namagem> Not black, dark purple
38:38 <Namagem> :v
38:58 <Namagem> Color doesn't represent race
39:13 <Avatar> what does it represent
39:36 <Namagem> It's basically hair color
39:44 <Namagem> Only more diverse
39:47 <Ballig> okay i watched 2 minutes of it
39:49 <Ballig> it's a kids cartoon
40:08 <Namagem> Did it make your eyes bleed?
40:14 <Ballig> I only got like 10 seconds into the themesong, but it already brought back memories of my little pony advertisements from when I was a kid
40:19 <Ballig> which screams marketing to me
40:30 <Namagem> If no, it's better than 80% of childrens cartoons
40:47 <Ballig> it just seemed like the setup to a computer game made for 8 year olds
41:06 <Namagem> Just watch a little more, you haven't seen any of the characters yet
41:11 <Ballig> I wouldn't go out of my way to urinate on a DVD of it, but I equally wouldn't go out of my way to watch it
41:26 <Ballig> hey, I only promised to watch 2 minutes
41:28 <Ballig> that was the deal
41:37 <Namagem> Yeah
41:51 <Namagem> The deal that you made up and I said fine too
41:58 <Ballig> that's how deals work
42:00 <Namagem> You don't HAVE to stop
42:10 <Namagem> Nor do I have to stop bugging you
42:19 <Namagem> But I'm not going to be annoying about it
42:36 <Ballig> yeah but you can't agree to me watching 2 minutes of it, but then expect me to watch another 5 minutes if that first couple of minutes didn't grab me like you had hoped
42:36 <Ballig> :p
42:47 <Namagem> Eh
42:49 <Mekkis> Ballig, legally speaking, has the election been called in Queensland?
42:59 <Namagem> You don't normally watch 2 minutes then stop
43:06 <Mekkis> given that our governor hasn't dissolved parliament yet?
43:06 <Ballig> Mekkis: wouldn't know, I don't pay attention to the news
43:29 <Namagem> Think about other shows you watch
43:40 <Namagem> If you watched 2 minutes of the pilot, would you be hooked?
43:48 Mort- ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
43:56 <Mekkis> I used to watch top gear
44:03 <Mekkis> because it took exactly 1 hour
44:08 <Ballig> I expect the first couple of minutes to grab me enough to make me want to watch some more
44:08 <Mort-> Wow
44:08 <Ballig> if it doesn't, then it's poorly executed
44:08 <Mort-> What?
44:34 <Mekkis> so if I started it at the start of my lunchbreak, and paused it at every interruption, I'd have a 1 hour lunch breaks
44:38 <Mekkis> when it finished
44:46 <Ballig> or else not for me
44:46 <Mort-> Movie?
44:46 <Mort-> Cookie?
44:46 <Avatar> show mort
44:46 <Namagem> Did it make you want to stop?
44:46 <Namagem> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_0Ea2nW0YY
44:46 <Ballig> it didn't make me want to continue
44:46 <Mort-> Who are joo?
44:46 <Avatar> see what you think of that mort
44:46 <Mort-> Namagem. Got cookies?
44:46 <Namagem> I'm a newbie
44:46 <Namagem> I can
44:46 <Namagem> Want me to?
45:29 <Mort-> Looks cool
45:37 <Mort-> I love cartoons!
45:49 * Mort- is a cartoon character
45:55 <Namagem> That's an interesting first reaction
46:01 <Ballig> I thought you were a mouse lemur with a stumpy tail
46:17 <Ballig> I had even affectionately nicknamed you stumpy
46:45 * Mort- grins
46:45 <Mort-> Its all your fault everyone is calling me stumpy :(
46:46 * Mort- glares at ballig
47:08 <Mort-> For your information i come from the cartoon movie magadascar
47:11 <Mort-> And my name is mort.
47:16 <Mort-> Just mort.
47:44 <Namagem> Also, just to get this out of the way
47:50 Namagem is now known as megamaN
48:18 megamaN is now known as Namagem
48:39 <Namagem> For anyone who didn't notice
49:30 <Namagem> Also, if you know the voice actress Tara Strong, she's the voice of Twilight Sparkle, the main character for much of the show
52:54 <Mort-> Ah ok
53:02 <Mort-> You rolling anything soon?
53:20 * Mort- rolls
53:40 <Namagem> Character wise? I don't know if you guys want me in any games
53:45 * Mort- squeaks a bit
53:51 <Mort-> Its ok
54:18 <Namagem> Especially 3.x and pathfinder, becauseI've only played a tiny bit of 3.5, and none of pathfinder
54:33 <Mort-> Just have to go by pathfinder rule book
54:33 <Mort-> And were all peachy
54:33 <Mort-> Hey even mouse lemurs are playing lol
54:54 <Namagem> Eh, I tried rolling up a character once
54:59 <Namagem> Unfortunately, it was a monk
55:09 <Mekkis> my first character was a monk
55:29 <Mort-> No worries
55:37 <Namagem> I dislike systems that aren't explicit about what stats and abilities you need to be at least halfway competent
56:18 <Mort-> I never played dnd before except on comp
56:19 <Mort-> Before this
56:19 <Mort-> You cant really fk up more then i did
56:19 <Mort-> Like my first game i was really shy! :d
56:19 <Mort-> At least now i can speak in complete sentences and say exactly what i mean!
56:45 <Mort-> I know what stats go where
57:07 <Mort-> My problem was that. I didn't know how many spells i was supposed to have in one day
57:26 <Namagem> Wait, your first character was a spellcaster?
57:32 <Mort-> A wizard
57:35 <Namagem> :o
57:46 <Avatar> so was mine
57:51 <Mort-> On the request of someone who wanted a knowledge whore rolled up
58:00 <Mort-> He said he would take care of me.
58:09 <Mort-> Keep the monsters out you know?
58:31 <Avatar> spellcasters aren't difficult to play
58:53 <Namagem> One of my worst roleplaying experiences was a DM who when I said that I was making a character of a certain class, proceeded to force me to optimize
58:53 <Mort-> I like to see the world from different angles
58:57 <Mort-> Thus. Wizard
59:03 <Namagem> That's a good point
59:04 <Mort-> I would optimize
59:09 <Mort-> If i knew how to
59:31 <Avatar> how did they force you
59:39 <Mort-> But I'm not really that familiar with the rule system
00:09 <Avatar> Uptime: 5wks 3days 12hrs 31mins 11secs
00:12 <Namagem> The Dm kept saying "You're taking this feat, right? You really need this feat! Ooh, and this weapon, so you can get this other feat
00:12 <Mort-> Probably say no barbs with 12 str allowed
00:30 <Mort-> I wish someone told me what feats to get :p
00:32 <Avatar> did you say no thanks
00:38 <Mort-> Or how to get god like
00:38 <Mort-> Haha
00:48 <Mort-> But oh well. We live. And learn :p
00:59 <Namagem> I did, but he didn't stop. I played one session with him, and then the group disbanded anyway
01:06 <Namagem> so vOv
01:11 <Avatar> try it again
01:14 <Avatar> different group
01:30 * Mort- tickles socks a bit
01:33 <Mort-> That's my familiar btw
01:48 <Namagem> I dislike optimizing, or being forced to.
01:54 <Mort-> The channel says that i can't tell me and my characters apart
02:02 <Mort-> I will try to optimise
02:03 <Namagem> System mastery as a requirement is not something I like
02:04 <Avatar> you can't :P
02:30 <Namagem> Even I can tell that you seem to be in character 24/7, and I've only known you 15 minutes
02:55 <Mort-> Aww :p
03:08 <Mort-> Uh
03:32 <Namagem> Have you played 4e, mort?
03:39 <Mort-> Did i tell you one of my more insane ideas of getting a bard rdd?
03:47 <Mort-> Don't ask me about the versions
03:58 <Namagem> Alright
04:02 <Mort-> I really have no clue what's what :d
04:11 <Mort-> I read forgotten realms!
04:36 <Namagem> Also now would be a good time to clarify
04:36 <Mort-> Played baldurs gate. Neverwinter nights
04:38 <Namagem> I live in the US
04:47 <Namagem> East coast
04:48 <Mort-> That's about as muchtap my dnd knowleg goes!
04:55 <Mort-> Oh we play at your night
05:00 <Mort-> On weekends
05:10 <Mort-> Weekdays we are mostly busy fks
05:14 <Mort-> So we don't play
05:22 <Namagem> My weekend is pretty much full, and my days are busy also
05:24 <Mort-> Mostly working busy fks
05:49 <Mort-> We game on weekend nights for yo
05:50 <Mort-> You
05:57 <Mort-> Or my whole morning for me
06:01 <Mort-> And afternoon as well
06:13 <Mort-> Each game usually goes for 6 h
06:34 <Namagem> Wow, my 4e games only occasionally go that long
06:46 <Namagem> And that's usually because something massive is happening
07:11 <Mort-> There is a lot to talk
07:20 <Mort-> Sometimes fighting can drag a long time
07:25 <Mekkis> online games generally take 50% to 100% longer
07:38 <Mort-> How are you sure you have extracted what you need out of the npc?
07:59 <Namagem> Like, my games last from 2-5 hours, on average about 4
08:23 <Namagem> And there's a ton of dialogue as well
08:24 <Mort-> Mek
08:33 <Mort-> How was your game last night
08:40 <Mort-> Or was it tomorrow :p
09:33 <Mort-> But somehow. I still think there is a lot of combat tactics I'm missing
10:02 <Mort-> I swear I'm going to find a way to fudge the dice at will :d
10:22 * Mort- starts pondering truestrike
10:52 <Namagem> What do you like best about being a wizard in combat?
11:06 <Mort-> Colourspray :d
11:08 <Mort-> Lol
11:10 <Ballig> it's about ponies
11:14 <Ballig> little ponies
11:30 <Namagem> Giving out status effects like candy?
11:57 <Mort-> Actually i like being an utility guy
12:10 <Namagem> Ah
12:18 <Mort-> Like when you have a nasty mob that's trying to run off
12:29 <Mort-> You pull out the glitterdust!
13:01 <Mort-> When you have 3 bulky fighters coming after your party. You spray and clean them up!
13:24 <Mort-> When there is a boss you need to take down fast. You use magic missiles!
13:41 <Mort-> Its the options!
13:49 <Namagem> I see, that makes sense
13:59 <Mort-> Also I'm quite a urm. Useless fk in a normal fight :d
14:23 <Mort-> But if you want a lexicon of beasties i can provide it for you!
15:20 <Mort-> That btw. Is the reason why i probably won't play a pure fighter
15:33 <Mort-> They are very powerful and steadydmg
15:48 <Mort-> But what do you do if you are up against something you can't hit?
16:08 <Mort-> Damage. Not supposed to use the short form
16:59 <Mort-> Cool? :d
17:07 <Namagem> I see
17:22 * Mort- holds out paw for namagem to shake
17:25 <Namagem> What happens when you're up against something that always saves against your spells
17:43 <Mekkis> you start casting enlarge person :S
17:44 <Mort-> That's when you use true strike and ranged touch attackr
17:47 <Mort-> Attacks
17:50 <Mort-> That too
18:02 <Mort-> But don't do it on rogues. They don't like it
18:07 <Namagem> haha
19:24 <Mort-> Sr is a problem
19:38 <Namagem> I'm not going to harp on this too much, but what I like about 4th edition is that everyone has that degree of utility
19:51 <Mort-> My magus just realised that the scroll of enlarge person
20:04 <Mort-> He carries for his fighter buddy
20:15 <Mort-> Can be used on himself as well ^^
20:25 <Mekkis> still takes 1 round to cast
20:31 <Mort-> I don't think he will use it though
20:39 <Mort-> More like pop shield and go in
20:40 <Namagem> Have you heard about CoD-Zilla?
20:44 <Mekkis> yeah
20:46 <Namagem> Cleric and Druids
20:51 <Mekkis> doesn't really exist in Pathfinder
20:56 <Namagem> I've heard
21:02 <Mekkis> as much as it did in 3.5
21:14 <Namagem> But remnants of it are still there?
21:21 <Mekkis> they are
21:49 <Mekkis> but, it's more a "thing you build around", rather than a "thing that happens"
22:13 <Mekkis> you CAN build a druid who uses wildshape to do large amounts of damage
22:14 <Namagem> So the 3.5 tiers as they are don't really exist any more?
22:20 <Mort-> ??
22:22 <Mekkis> but it's not as simple as that anymore
22:29 <Mort-> Can't you?
22:34 <Mekkis> because wildshape doesn't replace your physical stats anymore
22:38 <Mort-> Turn into a big animal and 
22:39 <Mort-> Oh
22:40 <Mekkis> it just augments them
22:42 <Mort-> No wonder
22:48 <Mekkis> so you still need a high str to start with
22:49 <Mort-> Replacing is cool
23:03 <Mort-> My demon monk from motb was worked that way
23:12 <Mekkis> and they HAVE improved fighters significantly
23:12 <Mort-> You take the demons physical stats
23:18 <Namagem> Yeah, the druid being a spellcaster that can obsolete the fighter at will
23:20 <Namagem> was a problem
23:36 <Mort-> With monk added for ac from wis and sr
23:42 <Mekkis> so it's not really that much of a problem any more
23:42 <Namagem> I looked at them, and they aren't all that much different
23:53 <Mekkis> there are subtle differences you won't realise
24:03 <Namagem> Like, they gave them an ability, better saves, and stuff
24:06 <Mekkis> like the fact that they dropped the power of the wizard
24:23 <Mort-> Lol
24:25 <Mort-> Time stop
24:35 <Namagem> But that doesn't solve the fact that all fighters do is stand on the front line and hit things, while the wizard trivialized the encounter
24:37 <Mekkis> by giving them bigger HD, a bonded item, and some other things
24:43 <Mort-> You used to be able to cast offensive stuff
24:45 <Mort-> On it
24:46 <Mekkis> (then weakening the spells)
25:04 <Mekkis> Namagem, In my experience, the wizard doesn't really do that anymore
25:08 <Mort-> What spells got weakejdd
25:12 <Mort-> Weakened
25:21 <Mekkis> glitterdust...
25:26 <Namagem> What's Sleep like in pathfinder?
25:35 <Mekkis> as useless as it was in 3.5
25:38 <Mort-> One round worth
25:46 <Mort-> I rather spray
25:51 <Spaceshot_AFK> Namagem: I've read enough to know you're a brony
25:52 <Namagem> Sleep? Useless? It's pretty much Coup De Gras Machine
26:00 <Mort-> People keep saying grease though
26:00 <Mekkis> 1 round casting time
26:03 <Spaceshot_AFK> didn't read enough to see if ballig has joined the brony side
26:05 <Mekkis> lots of things are immune
26:06 Spaceshot_AFK is now known as Spaceshot
26:06 <Mort-> So is colour spray
26:17 <Namagem> He watched two minutes and stopped
26:18 <Mort-> And its instant cast
26:20 <Mekkis> and very limited affected HD
26:28 <Spaceshot> good, less bronies the better
26:32 <Namagem> Eh
26:34 <Namagem> Each their own
26:49 <Spaceshot> hey I could watch dora the explorer, but I don't
26:54 <Namagem> I'm not going to hate on you for not liking it
27:00 <Namagem> But I ask that you respect thatI do
27:03 <Mort-> Spray has potential of ending fights
27:05 <Spaceshot> hahha
27:07 <Spaceshot> hahaha*
27:12 <Mort-> On the round you do it
27:14 <Mekkis> but really, it's the gunslinger who does 50ish damage a round at level 6
27:18 <Spaceshot> Namagem: you don't know me :P
27:22 <Mort-> Its sick
27:23 <Spaceshot> clearly XD
27:29 <Mekkis> or the druid/fighter who does 50is at level 5 
27:40 <Mekkis> that tend to warp encounters more than any wizard
27:43 <Namagem> I guess I'm just going to learn to ignore you, then
27:44 <Mort-> How the fk does avatar do that
27:46 <Mort-> Lol
27:48 <Namagem> Good to know in advance
28:01 <Mort-> Last time the boss took an aond
28:01 <Mekkis> Mort-, probably by getting something wrong on his sheet :)
28:04 <Mort-> Aoo
28:12 <Mekkis> I suggest you audit it for him
28:12 <Spaceshot> or the RAW lvl 3 alchemist level 1 ranger duel dual 2-handed weapon could probably do 50ish damage a round
28:21 <Mort-> And our fighter crit
28:27 <Spaceshot> Namagem: most people do, I get use to it :P
28:29 <Mort-> Bb boss lol
28:35 <Mekkis> Spaceshot, don't go into Schrödinger's alchemist
28:44 <Spaceshot> look, it's RAW
28:47 <Mekkis> no it isn't
28:50 <Namagem> One class that I really don't like to go without
28:53 <Namagem> Is the Warlord
29:01 <Mekkis> it's RAW + various rules interpretations
29:01 <Spaceshot> yes it is, RAW it clearly works
29:05 <Spaceshot> what?
29:09 <Spaceshot> what interpretations?
29:10 <Mort-> I don't think there are warlords
29:12 <Mort-> In pf
29:15 <Namagem> There aren't
29:22 <Mekkis> there are
29:27 <Mekkis> they're called "cavaliers"
29:27 <Namagem> This saddened me when I discovered it
29:40 <Namagem> Aren't cavaliers basically paladins with horses?
29:41 <Mekkis> more or less
29:41 <Spaceshot> the alchemist is RAW and you know it
29:45 <Mekkis> yes
29:48 <Spaceshot> RAI it get's shat on, but that's besides the point
29:53 <Mekkis> but that interaction is doubtful
30:06 <Mekkis> and it's not that RAI that I'm shitting on.
30:06 <Spaceshot> cavaliers are when you make a paladin without holiness
30:27 <Mekkis> cavaliers have more to do with teamwork that cavaliers
30:40 <Spaceshot> gg ^^
30:42 <Namagem> Does the cavalier get to shout at people to do his dirty work for him, and give them bonuses to it?
30:55 <Spaceshot> kind of
30:58 <Mekkis> Namagem, does that make any sense in any context?
31:04 <Namagem> Yes
31:08 <Mekkis> sounds like you're describing a bard
31:10 <Spaceshot> he instead shouts at a dude, and people get a buff towards that dude
31:12 <Mekkis> :)
31:38 <Mekkis> I've said this before: a) there are contradicting reports on the amount of damage that gets dealt.
31:41 <Namagem> In 4e, one of the possible warlord at wills is called commander's strike
31:42 <Spaceshot> though our cavalier (ballig's guy) doesn't use the challeges that often
31:57 <Spaceshot> 4e?
31:57 <Namagem> It's a standard action that gives one of your allies a basic attack with a bonus to damage
32:00 <Spaceshot> lets not start that discussion
32:00 <Mort-> He charges more often
32:28 <Namagem> I haven't played much 3.5 or any PF, so it's all I have to refer to
32:33 <Mort-> Ballig charges a lot
32:36 <Spaceshot> it's not a good starting point
32:40 <Mekkis> b) in order for your additional hands to be useful, you NEED to grab the rule out of the bestiary, which is right next to the thing that will make you illegal.
32:51 <Spaceshot> wrong
32:56 <Spaceshot> you don't NEED to
33:07 <Mort-> Couldn't they decide it once and for all?
33:08 <Spaceshot> you only NEED to if you're going to wield and fight with more than 2 weapons, which I'm not
33:09 <Mekkis> ok, Spaceshot 
33:22 <Spaceshot> 2 weapons
33:24 <Mekkis> show me a passage that says what having more than 2 arms allows you to do?
33:25 <Spaceshot> 4 arms
33:27 <Namagem> What do you guys think of Tome of Battle for 3.5
33:34 cam` has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
33:36 <Mekkis> Namagem, interesting.
33:56 <Mekkis> I personally didn't like it: I'm of the opinion that if you want to play a spellcaster, play a spellcaster
34:00 <Mekkis> don't try to fake it
34:08 <Spaceshot> I like it except it's time consuming
34:26 <Spaceshot> also, many DMs don't allow for people to change what they have willy nilly
34:33 <Spaceshot> that's why no one here likes magic of incarnum
34:37 <Namagem> I'm of the opinion that if you're going to tell the fighter he can't do anything but basic attack, don't pretend they can
35:13 <Mekkis> last time I played a fighter, I was making more decisions per round than I would have had to were I playing a wizard
35:26 <Spaceshot> The alchemist gains a new arm (left or
35:27 <Spaceshot> right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and
35:27 <Spaceshot> cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing.
35:27 <Spaceshot> The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or
35:27 <Spaceshot> actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon
35:27 <Spaceshot> and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine
35:27 <Spaceshot> (using two-weapon fighting).
35:28 <Namagem> Well, yeas
35:49 <Namagem> Because as a wizard, all you would have to decide is "How am I going to trivialize THIS battle"
36:01 <Mekkis> not really
36:04 <Spaceshot> yea, I don't really like full magic casters
36:08 <Namagem> "Do I want to use my save or die, or my mass save or suck?
36:32 <Spaceshot> you first ask, can colour spray kill the encounter
36:32 <Mekkis> first question really is "do I really want to expend that one glitterdust I prepared today on this battle"?
36:46 <Spaceshot> then work up from there
37:21 <Mekkis> Namagem, most of the people here haven't had much experience with high-level play, and from what I gather, neither have you.
37:59 <Namagem> I played once in a level 8 game with a fighter-style class
38:12 <Mekkis> how experienced was the DM?
38:19 <Namagem> Very
38:32 <Mekkis> was that the DM who encouraged you to optimise?
38:41 Jaggedsoul ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
38:49 <Namagem> And yet, the only option I had was "Do I full attack, or do I move then attack, or do I move and be useless"
38:50 <Namagem> No, it wasn't
38:52 <Mekkis> was this 4e?
38:57 cam` ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
39:01 <Namagem> I actually like this gm's style
39:03 <Namagem> And no
39:04 <Namagem> 3.5
39:14 <Namagem> Admittedly houseruled to be a bit better
39:19 <Namagem> And my class was scaled up
39:22 <Namagem> And I still felt useless
39:27 <Mekkis> Namagem, in the last 3.5e game I was playing in, my decisions each round were:
39:57 <Namagem> Realize this was my first 3.5 game
40:14 <Namagem> And I wasn't anywhere near optimal
40:26 <Mekkis> I have two weapons: a large +1 thundering greatsword, and a +1 Guisarme. I have weapon focus (Guisarme).
40:42 <Mekkis> I have two attacks each round (BAB +6/+1)
40:55 <Mekkis> How much should I power attack for?
41:03 <Mekkis> How much should I combat expertise for?
41:14 <Mekkis> Should I replace my first attack with a trip attempt?
41:19 <Mekkis> What about my second attack?
41:36 <Mekkis> Where should I 5' to, and should I do it before, after, or between attacks
41:47 <Namagem> That assumes you know what you're doing
41:51 <Namagem> Which I did not
42:02 <Mekkis> then in all honesty, you shouldn't have been playing a fighter
42:17 <Namagem> I still contributed
42:24 <Namagem> I was the highest DPR
42:29 <Namagem> But I /felt/ useless
42:30 <Mekkis> for a new player to 3.5e (and to some extent Pathfinder), I would strongly recommend Sorcerer
42:34 <Spaceshot> you shouldn't of played your first 3.5 game at level 8
42:42 <Mort-> A guys got to learn somewhere
42:51 <Namagem> The DM was really good, and I was mostly in it for the story anyway
42:51 <Spaceshot> sorc/cleric/pet based druid
42:59 <Mekkis> cleric?
43:00 <Mekkis> really?
43:12 <Mort-> Nothing beats pratical experience really
43:13 <Spaceshot> not in the way you tend to make clerics
43:33 <Spaceshot> a support cleric
43:35 <Mekkis> To be honest, I still don't know how a low-level cleric is SUPPOSED to work
43:55 <Spaceshot> by playing an oracle XD
44:04 <Namagem> I don't like a game that has a specific way things are supposed to work, but don't outright tell you :I
44:09 <Mort-> As party tank?
44:22 <Mort-> And use channeling?
44:24 <Spaceshot> there is no such thing as a tank in dnd
44:29 <Namagem> What.
44:31 <Spaceshot> unless you're in a funnel
44:40 <Mort-> Well they have heavier armor
44:41 <Mekkis> unless you're fighting mindless stuff
44:41 <Namagem> You're joking, right?
44:44 <Mekkis> nope
44:49 <Mort-> Better they take then the wizard
44:51 <Spaceshot> Namagem: there is no taunting in 3.5/pathfinder
44:55 <Mekkis> most smart enemies won't attack the "tank"
44:57 <Namagem> The concept of the meat shield is classic
44:59 <Spaceshot> marking/taunting
44:59 <Mort-> Then take aoo
45:10 <Mort-> For trying to get out of range
45:30 <Spaceshot> so? if they're ranged they'll just 5' step back and attack the guy who's dishing out the pain
45:40 <Spaceshot> doesn't matter if your tank closes in on him all the time
45:54 <Namagem> Ugh
45:57 <Namagem> Useless fighters
46:12 <Mekkis> not useless
46:27 <Mekkis> just not the first thing you should try to play
46:29 <Jaggedsoul> actually there are feats to help tie up enemies
46:33 <Namagem> If they're not dealing out the most damage and not controlling the battle field, what are they doing?
46:38 <Spaceshot> yea, unlike 4e which is meant to be a pen and paper version of a TBS (turn based strategy game)
46:49 <Namagem> Admittedly, it can be played that way
46:54 <Jaggedsoul> step up and strike, combat patrol
46:58 <Mort-> Ranged generally does less dmg
46:58 <Mort-> Then a good 2 handed sword swing
46:59 <Mort-> With pa on
47:01 <Spaceshot> 3.5/pathfinder is quite more realistic in forms of battle strategy
47:03 <Mekkis> what? fighters do (generally) deal the most damage
47:10 <Namagem> Oh?
47:21 <Namagem> If you have a big guy swinging a sword in your face
47:27 <Mekkis> and other fighter-type classes
47:29 <Jaggedsoul> and cleric spells like compel hostility to attract the attacks of enemies
47:33 <Spaceshot> fighters deal the most damage on average over 10rounds
47:34 <Mekkis> (gunslinger, cavalier)
47:43 <Namagem> Are you going to think, "Oh, hey, that guy is squishier. I should go after him"
47:55 <Namagem> How many fights last 10 rounds?
48:01 <Spaceshot> a good GM will target whoever is dealing the most damage
48:08 <Mekkis> yesterday, a fight went for 14
48:10 <Spaceshot> in 4e, way too many
48:14 <Namagem> A good GM will ignore the meat shield?
48:16 <Mekkis> in Pathfinder
48:25 <Namagem> Not true, spaceshot
48:26 <Spaceshot> I think we had a fight from first steps 1 that lasted abou 20+
48:29 <Namagem> Not since the early days
48:36 * Mort- wincep
48:37 <Mekkis> Spaceshot, that's because Mort- was being soft
48:42 <Spaceshot> Namagem: I played 4e for about 2 years straight
48:49 <Spaceshot> I know
48:50 * Mort- winces more
48:58 <Namagem> They had a mass monster eratta
49:04 <Mekkis> oh
49:05 <Namagem> To give monsters less HP and more damage
49:13 <Spaceshot> even when I was using barbarian bullshit it was still taking long
49:21 <Mekkis> anyone interested in buying some near-mint first printing 4e core rulebooks
49:24 <Spaceshot> if you're talking about essentials that's even worse than 4e
49:28 <Mekkis> PHB, MM, DMG
49:34 <Namagem> Also less defences
49:39 <Namagem> Nah
49:46 <Spaceshot> again, are you talking about essentials Namagem?
49:50 <Namagem> No
50:02 <Spaceshot> then I've never heard of this errata
50:06 <Mort-> Who was it who mentioned
50:13 <Namagem> And it doesn't mattereither way, since essentials is literally just a splatbook
50:19 <Spaceshot> hahahahaha
50:20 <Spaceshot> wrong
50:25 <Spaceshot> essentials is 4.5e
50:27 <Mort-> You shouldn't give low level monsters hand axes?
50:29 <Namagem> Dude
50:35 <Mekkis> Mort-, I did
50:38 <Spaceshot> it's dnd OSR basic version of 4e
50:41 <Namagem> I've run games for the past 2 years
50:46 <Mekkis> if they have 18 str
50:47 <Mekkis> :S
50:50 <Namagem> They're strictly compatible
50:51 <Spaceshot> fighter went back to only having swing sword and taunt
50:59 <Namagem> Space
51:02 <Namagem> Listen to be
51:03 <Spaceshot> yes they are compatible, but they aren't the same
51:03 <Namagem> me*
51:16 <Namagem> The math for monsters was started to be changed in MM3
51:29 <Namagem> And they gradually errata'd all the monsters to the new math
51:29 <Mort-> My magus has yet to have a good crit :p
51:38 <Spaceshot> sweet, so all those odd monsters that even MM2 wasn't weird enough for had changed stats, grats
51:53 <Namagem> Nope, like I said
51:58 <Namagem> All the monsters were changed over
52:18 <Namagem> The new math is so simple even, it fits on a business card
52:28 <Spaceshot> also, unless you play an organised version of the RPG, most people don't check erratas on RPG games
52:47 <Spaceshot> unless something clearly makes no sense or is broken
52:53 <Namagem> 4e was constantly eratta'd to be improved
53:03 <Namagem> Which is possible because we live in an era with the internet
53:04 <Spaceshot> 99% of players wouldn't care to check
53:09 <Mekkis> Spaceshot, are you overlooking the large online presence of 4e?
53:18 <Mekkis> (true, it is WotC....)
53:25 <Spaceshot> you mean what they promised when 4e came out and never provided?
53:29 <Namagem> http://blogofholding.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mm3businessfront.gif
53:46 <Namagem> The character builder and monster builder
53:46 <Mekkis> they did provide it
53:49 <Mekkis> to an extent
53:51 <Namagem> The latter had the monster eratta
54:06 <Namagem> errata*
54:23 <Mekkis> but of course, it's electronic, it's WotC, so of course it doesn't work :)
54:39 <Namagem> I'll admit
54:46 <Namagem> it was poorly executed
54:54 <Mekkis> the DCI Judge Centre (ummm... WPN Judge Centre now) broke two years ago, and still hasn't been fixed
55:06 <Spaceshot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLXuMb6WWw
55:19 <Spaceshot> that
55:30 <Namagem> Yeah
55:31 <Spaceshot> promised at the gencon before the 4th ed release
55:36 <Spaceshot> never happened
55:37 <Spaceshot> ever
55:39 <Namagem> A suite of tools that got sidetracked
55:45 <Namagem> Except for the character and monster builder
55:47 <Spaceshot> it was meant to be online dnd
55:50 <Namagem> And eventually the tabletop
56:02 <Spaceshot> except for the shit chacter builder they repleaced the ok one with
56:13 <Spaceshot> there's a tabletop?
56:17 <Spaceshot> they are way too slow
56:25 <Namagem> You know that people are still updating the old character builder, right?
56:32 <Spaceshot> I bet they started making MTG:O around ice age
56:33 <Namagem> It's really good and up to daye
56:37 <Namagem> date*
56:42 <Mekkis> Spaceshot, they didn't
56:59 <Spaceshot> so? people still play EOTFS doesn't mean new people know about it
57:02 <Mekkis> if they had, a lot of cards that got printed wouldn't be
57:11 <Mekkis> EOTFS?
57:12 <Spaceshot> Mekkis: it's a joke at their lack of speed to create programs
57:23 <Spaceshot> emperor of the fading suns
57:28 <Spaceshot> the best TBS 
57:32 <Mekkis> TBS?
57:39 <Spaceshot> HOMM:3 can suck it's balls
57:44 <Spaceshot> turn based strategy
57:45 <Mekkis> HOMM:3?
57:54 <Spaceshot> now you're just being silly
57:56 <Namagem> In otherwords you'rejust taking potshots at 4e now and not actually interested in what I have to say
58:05 <Mekkis> it's Spaceshot 
58:07 <Mekkis> he's a troll
58:12 <Mekkis> feel free to /ignore him
58:15 <Mekkis> I do most of the time
58:28 <Spaceshot> I'm not taking potshots at 4e explictly
58:36 <Namagem> :I
58:37 <Spaceshot> just explaining the flaws in what you're saying
58:43 <Spaceshot> so clearly I'm listening extensively
58:53 <Spaceshot> and thus quite interested
59:06 <Spaceshot> so continue praising/explaining 4e
59:24 <Namagem> Currently, even throwing hard encounters at the party
59:27 <Spaceshot> Mekkis: please tell me you know what HOMM:3 stands for
59:34 <Namagem> Combats rarely last more than 4 rounds
59:41 <Namagem> Boss battles maybe last 6-7
59:46 <Spaceshot> that's because it's become more a game of numbers than even 3.5
59:48 <Namagem> maybe
59:52 <Spaceshot> since PHB3
59:58 <Namagem> What?
00:12 <Namagem> Oh, talking about the 3.5 phb3
00:19 <Spaceshot> no
00:25 <Spaceshot> 4e PHB3
00:28 <Spaceshot> or maybe 2
00:31 <Spaceshot> which ever had barb
00:43 <Mekkis> I don't know what you're on about: I stopped playing 4e shortly before they started printing splatbooks
00:48 <Spaceshot> maybe it was primal I'm thinking of
01:00 <Namagem> the phb 2 has the barbarian
01:01 <Namagem> But
01:07 <Spaceshot> Mekkis: HOMM:3 is heroes of might and magic 3
01:11 <Mekkis> ah
01:15 <Namagem> What you're ignoring is that even the barbarian has some really cool things they can do
01:17 <Spaceshot> you should know that :P
01:18 <Namagem> If you take them
01:26 <Mekkis> could you try to use a few less acronyms?
01:31 <Mort-> All right
01:35 <Mort-> Shopping
01:35 <Spaceshot> nah I'm cool
01:39 Mort- has quit (Quit: Bye)
02:19 <Namagem> Like their level 1 rage that, at the beginning of their turn, knocks adjacent enemies prone and slides them one square
02:41 <Namagem> If you go for pure damage, yes, that's what you're going to get
02:55 <Namagem> But there's far more interesting things you can do, with every class
03:11 <Spaceshot> as a three-kreen barb/psionic I was doing I think 5 attacks each first round of combat
03:19 <Spaceshot> over I think up to 4 targets
03:26 <Spaceshot> interesting meh
03:32 <Mekkis> really, the issue that I had with 4e was the lack of out-of-combat spellcasting
03:34 <Spaceshot> 4e is all about fighting, and finishing them
04:52 <Namagem> Over half the list is non-combat
04:52 <Spaceshot> diplomacy shouldn't be a skill
05:05 <Spaceshot> but I don't need to go on about that
05:26 <Spaceshot> over half the list is encounter oriented
05:35 <Namagem> Obviously if you roleplay a good diplomacy, a good dm will give you bonuses
05:38 <Namagem> Oh really?
05:47 <Spaceshot> diplomacy should be all about roleplay
05:57 <Spaceshot> I don't really understand the need of a roll for it
06:07 <Namagem> To judge reaction
06:09 <Spaceshot> if you can't talk your way out of something, how should a roll fix that
06:36 <Spaceshot> a DM who can't distinguish the NPCs from each other and himself isn't the best DM
06:41 <Namagem> And to give the DM a measuring stick to say how well you did, to compare it
06:51 <Spaceshot> compare it to what?
06:51 <Mekkis> Spaceshot, if you don't have the mental capacity to cast spells, why should you ingame?
06:57 <Namagem> ^
07:02 <Spaceshot> Mekkis: that's somewhat different
07:11 <Mekkis> if you don't have the dexterity to pick a lock, why should you ingame?
07:16 <Namagem> If you aren't physically fit enough to swordfight, why should you?
07:17 <Spaceshot> and trolling my logic doesn't work
07:33 <Mekkis> true
07:36 <Namagem> It's about the character, not the player's abilitie
07:41 <Spaceshot> so?
07:42 <Mekkis> I should stop arguing and start kicking
07:51 <Spaceshot> haha, do you even have the ability?
07:52 <Namagem> The character might be wittier and more clever than the player can be
07:59 <Spaceshot> guess I'm going to find out XD
08:33 <Spaceshot> thats wisdom and clever taken care of
08:38 <Spaceshot> wisdom and intellect*
08:51 <Namagem> Skills are shards of the abilities
08:59 <Namagem> Specific sections of them
09:00 <Spaceshot> ...
09:10 <Spaceshot> are we done?
09:14 <Spaceshot> I think we're done
09:20 <Namagem> As long as you are.
09:39 <Mekkis> are you going to accept that the point of having ability scores and skills is to express things your character can do, rather than what you can do?
10:33 <Spaceshot> that's also suggesting that the DM should tell you what you're character should be doing at certain situations if you don't think of it but your character would clearly do it
10:43 <Namagem> What?
10:53 <Namagem> That makes no sense, so I won't try to respond to it
10:55 <Mekkis> it's called "roll a knowledge check"
11:05 <Spaceshot> I'll try another approach
11:20 <Spaceshot> if you're character is a wilderness ranger
11:32 <Spaceshot> and you're in a forest
11:49 <Spaceshot> and you can hear/see/perception/sense/familiar/pet/whatever guys coming your way
12:07 <Spaceshot> and you say your character is going to crouch in the shrubs
12:29 <Spaceshot> but your character has awesome climb skill trained and there are easily climbable trees around
12:41 <Spaceshot> your character would most likely climb a tree instead
13:01 <Mekkis> what are you getting at?
13:03 <Spaceshot> of hiding in the bushes (lets also say his climb is 5+ more than his hiding)
13:11 <Namagem> If you want to hide in shrubs, that's fine.
13:20 <Spaceshot> but your character wouldn't do that
13:31 <Namagem> In fact, if he's in a forest he's been in at least once, I'd give him a bonus to hiding in it
13:34 <Spaceshot> the ranger would go for the closet tree and start racing up it
13:35 <Mekkis> sure your character would
13:43 <Mekkis> he's still your character
13:49 <Namagem> You decided that's not what you're character would do
13:55 <Namagem> You made that decision
14:14 <Namagem> your*
14:19 <Spaceshot> yes, you also make the decisions on what words you say to the guards/merchant/robber/mayor
14:29 <Jaggedsoul> plus those coming might see you climbing rather than if you hid in the bushes
14:29 <Namagem> Yes
14:35 <Spaceshot> if you tell the guard "Let me the fuck in"
14:40 <Spaceshot> and roll 20 on dip with +10
14:46 <Spaceshot> do you think the guard should let you in?
14:51 <Mekkis> no
14:53 <Namagem> It wouldn't be diplomacy
14:57 <Namagem> It'd be intimidate
14:59 <Namagem> :3
15:11 <Mekkis> but if you say "I'll ask the guard to let me in, explaining how urgent it is to get in"
15:14 <Spaceshot> but what if he specifically say it was for diplomacy before he said what he said?
15:15 <Namagem> ^
15:22 <Spaceshot> said*
15:24 <Mekkis> then your 30 on diplomacy should get you in
15:40 <Spaceshot> even though a guard in his right mind wouldn't let you in if you said that to him?
15:43 <Namagem> It's assumed that your character is more tactful than you
15:51 <Namagem> On a nat 20
15:57 <Mekkis> then the DM would assign an appropriate penalty to your diplomacy check :S
15:58 <Spaceshot> let's not get into assumptions
16:15 <Spaceshot> I've already got whims about the whole backpack adventuring
16:17 <Namagem> Just like it's assumed that your character is heroic
17:18 <Namagem> I can see "Let me the fuck in" being used diplomatically
17:23 <Spaceshot> I take my roleplaying seriously, and many rules, many of them both RAW and RAI make little sense to me
17:34 <Namagem> If someone says that in desparation, trying to get in to avoid something
17:44 <Namagem> And they're sincere sounding
18:04 <Namagem> Most people would let them in, especially in a world filled with terrifying monsters
18:14 <Spaceshot> still
18:18 <Namagem> They'd keep an eye on the person
18:22 <Namagem> And would be wary
18:32 <Namagem> But you can diplomacy with that line
18:35 <Spaceshot> it's the words the player uses that get the penalties or bonuses to the diplomacy check, so why even a check?
19:00 <Namagem> To let people who are terrible at lying or things like that
19:06 <Namagem> To have characters who aren't
19:15 <Spaceshot> because it doesn't matter how well you construct your side of the conversation it all just comes down to the roll of the dice
19:27 <Namagem> If it's good enough
19:32 <Namagem> And I can't refute it
19:37 <Namagem> It doesn't matter what the check is
19:41 <Spaceshot> RAW and RAI beg to differ
19:42 <Namagem> I'd let it work
19:52 <Spaceshot> yes, but again, RAW and RAI say other wise
20:17 <Namagem> That's why having a DM matters
20:22 <Namagem> It's not a videogame
20:28 <Spaceshot> 4e begs to differ
20:33 <Spaceshot> XD
20:52 <Namagem> And now you're taking potshots
20:57 <Namagem> The conversation is over
20:58 <Spaceshot> I've played it, and would probably play it again
21:03 <Spaceshot> but I know what I played
21:10 <Namagem> Did you run, or play?
21:12 <Namagem> Or both?
21:13 <Spaceshot> though I wouldn't really call it wow
21:14 <Spaceshot> both
21:24 <Namagem> Did it play that way when you ran it?
22:02 <Spaceshot> I'd call it more final fantasy tactics, or tatics ogre, or fire emblem
22:07 <Spaceshot> and no, it didn't
22:17 <Spaceshot> but that's because I explicitly tried to make it as little combat as possible
22:28 <Spaceshot> and it got the players bored shitless at times
22:42 <Spaceshot> no confrontations
22:44 <Namagem> I have combat really frequently, and each one furthers the plot I try to set up
22:48 <Spaceshot> nothing to swing their swords at
22:49 <Namagem> That's the key
22:53 <Namagem> I had one
22:57 <Namagem> Where because of the plot
23:10 <Spaceshot> railroader?
23:11 <Spaceshot> XD
23:16 <Spaceshot> wow I could be here all night
23:20 <Namagem> The PCs decided to try to strike a bargain between the chaotic evil bullywugs, and the human villagers
23:29 <Namagem> And it was really not likely
23:30 <Spaceshot> brb
23:48 <Mekkis> I told you he was a troll.
23:57 <Namagem> But they made convincing arguments for both sides
24:05 <Namagem> And got them to work together temporarily
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24:20 <Namagem> Yeah, he is
24:29 <Namagem> He doesn't even deny it
26:14 <Mekkis> I obviously haven't made it explicit enough that any new player would probably enlarge this community more than he would.
26:37 <Spaceshot> haha
26:51 <Spaceshot> that's because I don't really play here
26:54 <Spaceshot> not yet
27:08 <Mekkis> that too
27:12 <Spaceshot> but I like to converse
27:24 <Spaceshot> just because to me, people are wrong
27:30 <Spaceshot> I like to better their knowledge to that wrongness
27:53 <Spaceshot> unlike you when you see someone making a bad build, you like to help them by inproving that build
27:59 <Spaceshot> I'd just show them their faults
28:08 <Spaceshot> different sides of the same dick coin
28:26 <Spaceshot> you just happened to have flipped the passively-somewhat nice side
30:27 Spaceshot has quit (Connection closed)
30:43 WooMod ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
30:48 <Namagem> Hey will
30:55 <WooMod> :-/
31:32 <Namagem> Ladies and gentlemen, my boyfriend
32:46 <WooMod> hi
33:50 <Mekkis> hi
34:25 Spaceshot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
35:10 <Namagem> Welcome back, spaceshot
36:00 <Namagem> Also pixies are the best race
36:03 <Namagem> You can't deny
37:35 <WooMod> but you can't give them fireball wands to murder your party in 4e :P
38:30 <Namagem> Oh?
38:34 <Namagem> I beg to differ.
40:21 <WooMod> but there not permanetly invisible, which is the point :P
41:05 <Namagem> Unless you give them a cloak of invisibility
41:13 <Namagem> Or make that a feature
41:26 <Namagem> The fey have all sorts of abilities
41:42 <Mekkis> Namagem, depends if your DM thinks the LA is a good idea
42:20 <Namagem> LA isn't a thing that exists in 4e, and every 3.5 game I've played has removed and lowered the power level of LA races
42:40 <Namagem> Removed the LA and lowered the power level*
44:24 <Namagem> For the best
45:18 <Mekkis> LA never worked
45:38 <Mekkis> Pathfinder fixed it too
45:47 <Mekkis> by almost doing what you said
46:23 <Namagem> The 4e philosophy is that give races what every member of the race should have, and have things that are iconic but not standard be racial feats
47:01 <Namagem> So high elves (eladrin) being magically adept is represented by a teleport power
47:16 <Mekkis> the Pathfinder philosophy is "start at CR=LA, and adjust according to the way it turns out in game, if the DM allows it in the first place"
47:20 <Namagem> While they have feats to improve using longswords, since it's iconic for them
49:17 Barmaley has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813])
53:17 <Mekkis> I wish this HP would print faster
53:49 <Mekkis> then again, it's about 15 years old, so I shouldn't really complain
56:05 <Namagem> Oh man
56:07 <Namagem> HP printers
56:22 <Avatar> hi WooMod
56:27 <WooMod> I'm imagining a printer that prints hitpoints now
56:28 <Avatar> what do you think of uh
56:30 <Avatar> what's it called again
56:37 <Avatar> MLP FiM
56:52 <WooMod> Why dost thou ask?
57:02 <Avatar> Namagem asked before
57:05 <Avatar> I am curious of your opinion
57:13 <WooMod> Ponies are cool.
57:35 <Avatar> does that include MLP
57:42 <WooMod> don't watch gen2/3 if you value your sanity though, gen 1 is ok if you like crazy 80s shows.
57:58 <Avatar> what is gen 1/2/3
58:20 <Namagem> Gen 1 is the 80s cartoon
58:34 <Namagem> Gen 2 is technically still gen 1, but for clarification
58:37 <Namagem> It's MLP Tales
58:45 <Namagem> And they have a more modern setting
58:52 <Namagem> And stand on two hooves all the time
58:58 <Namagem> gen 3 is an abomination
58:58 <WooMod> It is terrible and sexist.
59:07 <Namagem> Well
59:11 <Namagem> Sexist for now
59:13 <Namagem> early 90s
59:17 <Namagem> Not as much
59:35 <Namagem> Gen 4 is FiM
59:49 <Namagem> Gen 1 is actually pretty alright, if cheesy
59:59 <Namagem> The pilot is particularly epic, if badly paced
00:15 <Namagem> I know way too much about this franchise
00:36 <Namagem> Especially for a 20 year old man
01:14 <WooMod> Namagem
01:16 <WooMod> :P
02:03 ChanOP has quit (*.net *.split)
02:31 <Namagem> I mean, when the first episode has dragons which abduct the ponies, a satanic minotaur centaur who turns said ponies into dragons
02:40 <Namagem> With black fire
02:49 <Namagem> You can't really get much more metal than that
03:33 <Namagem> Also I totally just questionsniped
03:38 <Namagem> Sorry :p
03:40 <WooMod> yes, you did
05:27 <Mekkis> what equipment should a first level wizard have?
05:56 <Namagem> In 4e? Or 3.X or pathfinder?
06:09 <Mekkis> pathfinder
07:57 <Avatar> crossbow
08:35 <WooMod> crossbow, spellbook, a hound, spell components patch
09:31 <Avatar> a hound?
10:11 ChanOP ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
10:11 scoutlan.qld.au.austnet.org gives channel operator status to ChanOP
10:30 <WooMod> damn straight, get yourself a guard dog
14:51 Ballig is now known as Ballig1
15:53 <WooMod> so i got me the core rules CD sitting on my computer again
15:57 <Spaceshot> if elven, get a longbow
16:06 <Spaceshot> screw reloading time
16:07 <WooMod> am really thinking of doing a 2E game
16:38 <Spaceshot> I'd be more tempted playing 4e than 2e just for the one major reason
16:45 <Spaceshot> I know 4e
17:28 <WooMod> haha
17:49 <WooMod> i had promised namagem that i'd run a hex crawl for him thou
18:03 <WooMod> i wouldn't do a hex crawl in 4e(or 3e for that matter)
18:36 <Spaceshot> hex crawl?
19:12 <Namagem> Basically a world exploration game with mini-combats and discoveries
21:05 <Mekkis> I'd be tempted for 2e for exactly the same reason :)
21:28 <Mekkis> fyi: Pathfinder's Kingmaker AP is a hex crawl, you could say
22:02 <Spaceshot> ah
22:43 <Spaceshot> so inbetween hack 'n' slasher and free form (bad name, forgot what I usually call it)
23:57 <WooMod> i've heard of it yes
27:53 Sachiru ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
37:36 Mort- ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
37:47 <Mort-> Finished shopping
38:07 <Mekkis> mmm?
39:11 <Spaceshot> late shopping
40:52 <Mort-> Its 9 pm now
41:04 <Mort-> Been shopping for a dress for 2 days
41:07 <Mort-> Pink dress ^^
42:08 <Spaceshot> dress? mort wears dresses? outrageous
43:14 <WooMod> ello
43:39 <Mort-> Dude. Its my cousins wedding
43:40 <Mort-> And I'm her bridesmaid
43:46 <Mort-> And yeah in real life
43:53 <Mort-> I prefer wearing pants
44:04 <Mort-> Besides my wizard wears robes?
44:12 <Mort-> That close enough to dress?
47:10 Prince ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
52:28 <Mekkis> Mort-, then buy robes
52:38 <Mort-> :d
52:48 * Mort- flutters around
53:05 <Mekkis> heh
53:10 <Mekkis> wizard
53:16 <Mekkis> starts with 150gp
53:22 <Mekkis> spends it all on a riding dog
57:51 Prince ([email protected]) has left #d&d
58:58 <Mort-> Lol
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