// #eevblog — 2018-12-20
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01:28:26 <IoTPanic> @Ampera why weren't you using any version control?
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03:47:15 <IoTPanic> Why cant I private chat with people?
03:47:29 <IoTPanic> I want to try to mess with the bot....
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05:14:52 <IoTPanic> RIP 5G already.
05:16:52 <IoTPanic> I know @Ampera isnt on rn but he was so so excited for 5G and turns out they're using such a high frequency it can't go through buildings, rain, or your hand so the only solution they have is to build as many 5G towers as they can XD
05:31:58 <coppice> 5G is currently a BS term. It encompasses a modest upgrade to LTE (i.e. its actually long term evolving from the current LTE) and stuff at 60GHz or so. The 60GHz stuff isn't being done right now
05:33:00 <IoTPanic> Up to 70Ghz, but there is literally no way for 5G to happen as it states on paper. Plus, 70Ghz is starting to get into brain damaging EMF territory so there's gonna be a mess about that
05:33:39 <IoTPanic> I think its funny
05:33:58 <coppice> why is there no way for it to happen?
05:34:16 <IoTPanic> A. They need almost LOS to every device
05:34:37 <IoTPanic> B. You hand using your cell phone will completely block the signal
05:35:15 <coppice> that's the intended scenario. cell sites buid into lampposts on every street, so every car is actually within LOS. Dunno what they expect to happen when you are stuck between big trucks
05:35:17 <IoTPanic> C. This ON PAPER is a network planned for IoT as well, this is the one Im talking about. They want every street lamp, car, and lightbulb connected
05:35:51 <IoTPanic> So now, what happens inside a building of 5G devices and it starts Raining? rain and snow HEAVILY effect 5g
05:36:11 <IoTPanic> Im in Maine, it snows so much 3G and 4G suffer regularly
05:36:14 <coppice> those devices use the 2-4GHz channels, like now
05:38:01 <coppice> LOS has massive advantages and disadvantages. At 70GHz you can reuse the same channel an enormous amount. So, the signal can't get everywhere, but where is can get it has excellent capacity
05:38:03 <IoTPanic> I do not see, how at the specified frequency, utilizing power levels allowed by the FCC, and with the number of connected devices they realistically can operate in any environment other than an optional one like a smaller urban area
05:38:27 <IoTPanic> 4G is BARELY cutting it here
05:38:44 <coppice> What problems do you have with 4G?
05:41:53 <IoTPanic> Unideal cellular cell placement, the distance between cell towers, mountains cast what I like to call "cell shadows" as well as reflect cell signals into other cells that causes for unintended interference and a higher SNR floor, and weather makes a cell connection unreliable such as snow, hail, or sleet. And the fact cell signals travel TOTALLY differently in the winter than summer here so you get places that have 5 bars in one season and 2 in
05:41:54 <IoTPanic> another
05:42:47 <coppice> "utilizing power levels allowed by the FCC" <-- what do you mean by this? High power is your enemy when you want high capacity. Its only good for rural coverage, where capacity isn't normally an issue
05:43:14 <IoTPanic> Fair point. And the FCC governs the transmit power of cell towers
05:43:19 <IoTPanic> And everything else wireless
05:44:14 <coppice> your problems sound like a typical cheapo network. LTE can be very good, but it takes investment. In the US should have 700MHz LTE, and that should be pretty good for rural coverage
05:47:04 <IoTPanic> But that doesnt happen, sure in ideal conditions 5G may be great, but the rest of the world that doesnt live in a city and where there isnt anyone but cell carriers rolling the network out, it is going to fail. So my issue with it isnt "It doesnt work" its the fact its being sold as a replacement to 4G and 3G which fans like Ampera do is in the real world incorrect. Saying "RIP 5G already." I guess was not what I should have said
05:47:32 <IoTPanic> Wait, explaing what i meant by that
05:47:59 <IoTPanic> "That" being a not cheapo network, but a ideal system
05:48:37 <coppice> comms doesn't work as well in rural conditions? who'da thought?
05:50:51 <IoTPanic> Im sorry, how much of the area of the world is a urban area?
05:51:23 <coppice> I'm sorry, but physics is like that
05:51:48 <coppice> more people live in urban conditions that rural conditions
05:52:14 <IoTPanic> Idk, my opinion is they could have made something that improved on 4G less about data rates and more connection volume and distance
05:52:23 <IoTPanic> How fast do you need from a cell network?
05:52:51 <coppice> 90% of LTE networks are now heavily congested. capacity is what people want
05:53:22 <IoTPanic> Change out connection volume in my last statement with capacity
05:54:12 <IoTPanic> And why do we need 5g street lights? That is LITERALLY what LoRa is for
05:54:33 <coppice> so your comment essentially reads "Idk, my opinion is they could have made something that improved on 4G less about capacity and more connection capcity and distance "
05:55:24 <IoTPanic> Less about data rates and more about the number of connections made. Then the speed diffrence is only a link to the actual tower
05:56:12 <coppice> its automated cars which is driving their thinking, not street lights
05:57:17 <IoTPanic> Why does it require a high bandwidth connection? Shouldnt a self driving car be able to drive if the connection is lost therefore local processing?
05:57:47 <coppice> they are looking towards the cars cooperating, and needing to exchange lots of data in real time
05:58:27 <IoTPanic> I bet you can communicate the required telemetry data over 4G, but would enjoy improved latency. And why wouldnt you just then use an AdHoc network?
05:59:07 <coppice> how does an ad hoc solution help in any way?
05:59:25 <IoTPanic> So you can communicate with cars around you?
05:59:32 <IoTPanic> To exchange daata in real time
05:59:48 <coppice> you won't need an ad hoc solution if you have 5G
06:00:22 <IoTPanic> But then what happens if it snows and you're somewhere in unideal conditions? Your car just gonna crash?
06:00:38 <IoTPanic> Collide** would be what I meant
06:01:01 <coppice> you expect to have big problems with LOS connections along a street?
06:01:46 <IoTPanic> Why wouldnt you just use an AdHoc network? And you realize just because there is a street that doesnt mean there is a call tower, what streets are you on where EVERY street has LOS?
06:02:14 <IoTPanic> Remember, 99% of the world not being you
06:02:21 <coppice> that's the expected deployment approach for 70GHz 5G
06:02:48 <IoTPanic> When the solution is "Just build another tower on every street" Ive stopped listening
06:03:35 <coppice> if you don't deploy street by street 70GHz doesn't work. What's wrong with a cell site on every street?
06:03:53 <IoTPanic> If youre asking the question you will not get the answers
06:04:05 <IoTPanic> Ask that more slowly
06:04:12 <IoTPanic> Remembering all of us are not in BIG cities
06:04:20 <IoTPanic> And cars need oto work everywhere
06:04:43 <IoTPanic> An insanely unrealistic goal
06:04:47 <coppice> this is all about urban environments. The 700MHz to 4GHz stuff is there to deal with less dense environments
06:05:43 <coppice> this is why ad hoc approaches, which the car makers have been working on, are being abandoned. You need solutions which will work everywhere. 5G is intended to do that
06:05:44 <IoTPanic> Okay, now my car is stuck with 4G latancy have you seen the self driving demos with high speed intersections? That wont work with high latency
06:06:05 <coppice> why are you talking about 4G?
06:06:19 <IoTPanic> Because I took my car for a roadtrip outside of the city
06:06:23 <IoTPanic> No 5G anymore
06:06:31 <IoTPanic> Going with your logic
06:06:37 <coppice> I give up. You are not making any sense
06:07:10 <IoTPanic> I think youre from a city, and just dont understand cars need to work everywhere, and 5G isnt a solution for that
06:07:24 <IoTPanic> Or for Ampera trying to get fast internet on a train in rural NY
06:07:25 <coppice> why isn't 5G a solution?
06:07:37 <IoTPanic> Because not everywhere is a city
06:07:49 <IoTPanic> 90% of the world, is not a city
06:07:53 <coppice> what difference does that make?
06:07:59 <IoTPanic> omg...
06:08:03 <IoTPanic> Nevermind
06:08:29 <IoTPanic> My car needs to drive outside the city, where you say the 5G is
06:08:40 <coppice> 5G will be everywhere
06:08:57 <IoTPanic> But Im going back to work, finally got Sudo working, but didnt we just establish it doesnt work in the rural area?
06:09:13 <coppice> 70GHz doesn't work in rural areas
06:09:19 <IoTPanic> THATS MY POINT
06:09:23 <coppice> what point?
06:09:42 <IoTPanic> You are saying BOTH, " 5G will be everywhere" and " 70GHz doesn't work in rural areas"
06:09:47 <coppice> yes
06:10:02 <IoTPanic> Mkay, I think there is a miscommunication then
06:10:14 <IoTPanic> Probably on my side
06:10:40 <coppice> what has 5G's broad use got to do with the limitations of using 5G at 70GHz only in cities?
06:11:32 <IoTPanic> So when you say "The 700MHz to 4GHz stuff is there to deal with less dense environments" you are still referencing 5g? I do not know the freq ranges off the top of my head
06:12:47 <coppice> yes. we started out the conversation with this. the 5G being deployed right now is 5G protocols (basically upgraded LTE for MIMO and lower latency) running in the 700MHz to 4GHz area, and 70GHz will come later
06:13:42 <IoTPanic> Ah, got it. The miscommunication is I was unaware of the lower frequency stuff, I have only seen material talking about the high freq stuff
06:14:35 <IoTPanic> That makes a lot more sense, and now 5G makes more sense. However, I will continue to disregard hype
06:15:07 <coppice> most of the publicity stuff is smoke and mirrors, like the huge capacity to a handset, which you can't really get because MIMO requires some spacing between the antennae
06:19:42 <IoTPanic> Got it.
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06:37:17 <trying> hi my dryer has a hard time starting to spin I suspect the capacitor is going bad so i have another capacitor
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07:05:56 <gremlinz> good story bro
07:09:46 <DHess_US> More like his IRC client is having a hard time spinning.
07:11:05 <Ampera> IoTPanic, that would be rural Mass.
07:12:01 <DHess_US> I imagine a MIMO phone which so many antennas that you always hold it wrong.
07:12:28 <Ampera> also IoTPanic, I do use mild version control, I just had mistakenly hit the wrong button that didn't save before quitting in nano.
07:12:32 <Ampera> I only lost around 10 minutes of work.
07:15:13 <gremlinz> i guess he's trying..
07:29:32 <IoTPanic> Ah, lmao
07:29:59 <IoTPanic> That nano, would never happen with vim
07:30:03 <IoTPanic> ;)
07:30:13 <Ampera> of course it could.
07:30:19 <Ampera> if you specifically say to quit without saving, it would.
07:30:35 <Ampera> but vi/vim are FAR too complicated for just a text editor.
07:30:49 <Ampera> If I have to use text commands to do things in a text editor, that's a hair too far, which comes from a person who likes CLIs
07:30:59 <IoTPanic> I agree, was just playing devils advocate
07:31:15 <Ampera> don't blame the playa, blame the game.
07:31:33 <IoTPanic> Dont blame me, blame my tools
07:31:57 <Ampera> Your tools? <FARNSWORTH LAUGH>
07:32:33 <Ampera> How could that tiny tim of a tool cause any harm?
08:00:04 <IoTPanic> Reading a credential file to launch all the nukes?
08:15:15 <IoTPanic> Ya know, because those are in some launch-key.txt somewhere
08:21:49 <Ampera> I meant your penis, but whatever.
08:23:00 <IoTPanic> Ah, okay. My girlfriend would disagree but Ill leave the review to her
08:23:10 <Ampera> Not everyone wants a huge cock.
08:25:21 <IoTPanic> I didnt say huge, just not tiny tim
08:25:44 <Ampera> I wasn't aware there was an inbetween.
08:26:06 <IoTPanic> You werent? Lmao, just blew your mind
08:27:40 <Ampera> No, I'm saying as an expert on the sizes of sausages down under, there is no such thing as a size between cock johnson and tiny tim.
08:51:07 <IoTPanic> Oh? XD Might be your sources
08:51:31 <Ampera> my key cited source is your girlfriend.
08:51:41 <IoTPanic> MLA formatted?
08:51:54 <Ampera> Chiago, as in Chicago Typewriter.
08:54:43 <IoTPanic> Got it
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12:48:50 <IoTPanic> "One in custody, mace deployed, ... we're working on getting santa off the roof... we are providing medical assistance to santa via milk..." Only in america
14:12:13 <damian> nope, in australia as well
14:12:31 <damian> try and find an emergency pager website, on christmas eve night there's always a couple of obligatory posts
14:12:58 <damian> wait, was that a legit call. lol
14:18:12 <IoTPanic> Yeah, you want the video?
14:20:24 <damian> yeah!
14:22:43 <IoTPanic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRhRYTu0e2M&t=908s
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15:44:11 <IRCStats> Recalculating mIRCStats for #EEVblog
15:44:17 <IRCStats> New stats available for #EEVblog! See the #EEVblog stats: http://www.irc-stats.org/austnet/eevblog
15:50:17 <Ampera> Darn. >:^(
15:50:22 <Ampera> third place, I guess I need to not shut up more.
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18:34:08 <ThunderSqueak> glad to know I made the list of most active nicks
18:35:34 <ThunderSqueak> I also almost exclusively talk to Ampera and Halcyon
18:35:49 <Ampera> yeah, everyone else is stanky.
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19:43:15 <Halcyon> Well that was interesting
19:43:24 <Halcyon> 3 massive storm cells, absolutely got pelted with hail
19:43:51 <Halcyon> Hey ThunderSqueak
19:44:40 <steve30> According to the stats I'm friends with ampera and halcyon
19:44:47 <Halcyon> \o/
19:44:56 <Halcyon> Although that just proves that Ampera lies... he does have friends
19:44:57 <Halcyon> :P
19:47:13 <Ampera> shut up >:^(
19:47:23 <Halcyon> *grin*
19:48:49 <Ampera> so how do Halcyon
19:48:57 <Halcyon> Good now that I'm home
19:49:09 <Halcyon> We've had major storms in Sydney this afternoon
19:49:19 <Halcyon> Thankfully I got my car undercover in time
19:50:03 <Ampera> I've only been in a serious hailstorm once. We stopped driving and waited it out in a parking lot
19:50:10 <Ampera> it was some serious hail, but our car was unscratched.
19:50:35 <Halcyon> We had 3 major hailstorms just this afternoon, granted it is highly unusual
19:50:46 <Halcyon> I got caught in it, I thought it was going to come through the windscreen
19:51:14 <Ampera> That doesn't make sense, I thought hail fell up in Australia.
19:51:38 <Halcyon> LO
19:51:41 <Halcyon> L
19:51:44 <Halcyon> You clown
19:52:28 <Ampera> anyways, besides that how have you been doing?
19:52:49 <Halcyon> Working
19:52:51 <Halcyon> So meh
19:53:05 <Halcyon> 1 more day and then I Have 5 days off \o/
19:53:44 <Ampera> Your job sounds like a fun job though, being able to search anyone you want for whatever reason, allowing to arrest people for having a butterknife but not having any food on them
19:53:55 <Halcyon> Yeh it can be
19:54:03 <Halcyon> But I don't wear a uniform anymore (well rarely)
19:54:11 <Halcyon> I don't work front-line
19:54:40 <Ampera> lol
19:54:40 <steve30> I think he enjoys being the official penis inspector :p
19:54:57 <Halcyon> Steve, if you saw the people that get locked up, you wouldn't want to see their penis
19:55:13 <Ampera> Halcyon's dream job would be the male inspector at ball games.
19:55:32 <Halcyon> Why my dream job? Steve is a massive homo too
19:55:40 <Halcyon> And you're... questionable.
19:55:47 <Ampera> steve is gay?
19:55:51 <Halcyon> Darrrr
19:56:02 <Halcyon> So is DogWomble
19:56:11 <Ampera> well I knew that, he lives in Australia.
19:56:15 <Ampera> Cambria no less.
19:56:22 <steve30> I want to go swimming this morning.
19:56:24 <Halcyon> We don't like to consider Canberra part of Australia :P
19:56:32 <Ampera> That's interesting.
19:56:36 <Halcyon> I know why you want to go swimming Steve ;-)
19:56:42 <Ampera> Sort of like how we don't like to consider Australia part of the world.
19:56:49 <DogWomble> It's the Australian Craptittal Territory
19:57:07 <Ampera> well get your ACT together then, DogWomble
19:57:11 <Halcyon> You're from America, your people can't point out any other country in the world in an atlas.
19:57:30 <Ampera> no, because we're too busy making all of them to ship elsewhere.
19:57:43 <Halcyon> Sounds about right
19:58:37 <steve30> Also, I noticed this new PC doesn't seem to have a PC speaker.
19:59:05 <Halcyon> A lot of new ones don't anymore, they play the beeps through HDMI or the sound card
19:59:07 <Ampera> No, it has a sexist, racist, homophobic speaker.
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20:00:14 * steve30 away: swimming
20:00:18 <Halcyon> Have fun
20:00:33 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
20:00:33 <Ampera> does steve30 live in Australia?
20:00:42 <Ampera> because it ain't exactly swimming weather.
20:00:44 <Halcyon> No he is British
20:00:50 <Ampera> nani?
20:00:57 <Ampera> it's winter....
20:01:10 <Ampera> does he have like an indoor pool?
20:02:04 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERNq5Z2-8ig
20:02:07 <Halcyon> This is Steve
20:03:31 <Ampera> nice model m
20:05:33 <Halcyon> I need to go get changed then tidy up the kitchen, back later on
20:05:34 <damian> steve coates!
20:06:43 <damian> his jeans are way too tight around the penis area
20:07:08 <Ampera> anyways, I'mma gonna sleep now
20:07:11 <Ampera> gnite
20:13:28 * Remote is off
20:13:36 <Halcyon> Damian: What's wrong with that? ;-)
21:34:58 <MrMobodies> Hello
21:35:10 <Halcyon> Hey MrMobodies
21:35:54 <MrMobodies> Just saw the Weller responds video and did anyone think they sounded embarassed?
21:36:24 <Halcyon> I think whoever wrote it has no technical knowledge at all and they were left to piece together "some kind" of response
21:36:42 <Halcyon> I'm guessing Dave's video didn't get to the right people
21:37:10 <Ampera> I just watched one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in my damn life.
21:37:27 <Halcyon> I thought you were going to bed Ampera? What did you see?
21:37:42 <Ampera> I did, decided I wasn't tired.
21:38:08 <Ampera> Well, apparently some members of ISIS, or some radical islamic terrorist group decapitated two Scandinavian hikers in Morocco not too long ago.
21:38:12 <Ampera> They took a video of it.
21:38:19 <Halcyon> Yeh I saw that in the news
21:38:26 <Ampera> Well I saw them to it. :P
21:38:33 <Ampera> *do
21:38:38 <Halcyon> Charming
21:38:40 <Ampera> that's some shit.
21:38:53 <MrMobodies> I saw beheadings on Liveleak years ago and now I try to forget.
21:38:56 <Halcyon> I'm guessing their desire for shock value worked?
21:39:31 <Ampera> If by worked means, my hatred for the sort of people who do that has grown very much larger, then yes.
21:40:12 <Halcyon> Ampera: Not that such a thing has happened here, but the sort of laws we implement and talk about here are exactly designed to target people like that
21:40:30 <Halcyon> I've lost count of the number of radicalised nut bags we've stopped
21:40:47 <Ampera> I don't think there is a law that could prevent something like that from happening if you have no leads and no idea of who might do that.
21:40:54 <Ampera> Machettes aren't exactly hard to come by.
21:41:01 <Halcyon> I know you jest about the butter knife etc... and in reality that's not what the law is about
21:41:07 <Halcyon> It's about targeting those who want to do harm
21:41:22 <Ampera> My deal about it, is that it only ends up affecting people who don't want to do harm.
21:41:41 <Ampera> Stabbing someone is illegal no matter how you put it, making it any more illegal isn't going to stop pretty much anyone.
21:41:43 <Halcyon> Ampera: Surveillance and data gathering. People like that don't just wake up one day and decide to commit a terrorist act
21:41:56 <Ampera> We do exactly that too.
21:42:04 <Halcyon> Yeh but you guys kind of suck at it
21:42:25 <Halcyon> Either that or your security agencies are severely understaffed and they can't keep up
21:42:31 <Ampera> Actually we don't, in fact most acts of terror that are attempted you never even hear about.
21:42:49 <Ampera> They are ususally caught way before, and are never seen by the public.
21:42:51 <Halcyon> You're telling me :) I read exactly those reports every week
21:42:55 <Halcyon> Yes I know :)
21:42:57 <Halcyon> You're welcome
21:43:06 <Ampera> m9 I'm talking about the US too.
21:43:10 <Halcyon> I know
21:43:38 <Halcyon> The point I'm making is, those that crap on about "mass surveillance" really have no fucking idea what goes on
21:43:47 <Halcyon> They just think cops will watch them, watch porn
21:43:51 <Halcyon> That's not it at all
21:44:09 <Ampera> Halcyon, let me give you one concept to think about.
21:44:12 <Halcyon> Sure
21:44:20 <Ampera> Every single person you catch is a shitty crook.
21:44:31 <Ampera> It is the good criminals you never even see, nor know about.
21:44:40 <Ampera> How many there are is by definition impossible to tell.
21:45:04 <Ampera> However they do exist, people who are dedicated can do anything, you almost always catch stupid people.
21:45:06 <Halcyon> I'll rebut that with this...
21:45:55 <Halcyon> The "good criminals that you never see" DO come under notice. Whether there is enough evidence to convict them in court is another story. That doesn't mean all the intelligence and information gathered about their activities goes unnoticed or unrecorded.
21:46:18 <Ampera> No, I'm saying for however many criminals you /know/ about, there will be people you can't detect.
21:46:28 <Ampera> You only catch people who make mistakes.
21:46:47 <Halcyon> I can guarantee that almost all of these so called "good criminals", if you looked them up on a Police or intelligence database, it would read volumes, regardless of what their criminal record says.
21:47:12 <Ampera> I don't think you get what I'm saying, if you can look them up in /anything/ they aren't a good criminal.
21:47:18 <Halcyon> No, I get what you are saying
21:47:32 <Ampera> So then why are you replying with something that makes absolutely no sense within the context of what I'm saying?
21:47:33 <Halcyon> But I'm suggesting that this notion of a good criminal doesn't exist, 99% of the time.
21:47:43 <Ampera> You can't know if it does or does not exist.
21:47:45 <Halcyon> Because your perception is very different to mine
21:47:52 <Halcyon> Of course you can
21:48:08 <Halcyon> Crime (or the affects of) don't go unnoticed.
21:48:28 <Halcyon> It's about attributing that act to someone
21:48:30 <Ampera> No, noticed crime goes noticed.
21:48:47 <Ampera> If I steal a loaf of bread from a store, and nobody sees me, that is an unoticed crime.
21:49:01 <Halcyon> Give me one example of a serious crime which has gone unnoticed.
21:49:11 <Ampera> As I said, by definition, I cannot.
21:49:15 <Halcyon> We aren't talking about larceny or petty theft here.
21:49:16 <Ampera> My point is there is a chance they exist.
21:49:29 <Ampera> If I had an example, it would be a noticed crime.
21:49:31 <Halcyon> Sure, but that chance is very very very slim, almost negligible.
21:49:37 <Ampera> Can you prove that?
21:49:54 <Halcyon> Not with anything that is in the public domain, no.
21:49:59 <Ampera> There may be people who do this every day, there may be a massive number of stupid people in the world, but there are a lot of smart people.
21:50:26 <Ampera> I'm sure if you suddenly decided to commit a perfect crime, you would know exactly how to cover it up, and make it go unnoticed forever.
21:50:34 <MrMobodies> Unless it is in self defense I don't know how they sleep at night.
21:50:34 <Halcyon> Yes, but like I said, "smart" crook commits a serious crime -> Event happens -> Event goes unnoticed by anyone.... how often do you think that happens?
21:51:02 <Ampera> How many people have disappeared without any trace in the world, or even that you've seen?
21:51:06 <MrMobodies> Lots of smart crooks where I live.
21:51:09 <Ampera> Even if there are leads, they may go nowhere.
21:51:15 <Halcyon> If you steal a lot of money, someone will notice. If a body goes missing, someone will notice. If you blow up a venue, someone notices.
21:51:32 <Ampera> Take incidents like Malaysia Airlines flight 370, we don't know what happened to it at all.
21:51:42 <Ampera> It could have been a terrorist, a military action, anything.
21:52:01 <Ampera> These are still noticed crimes, but they are never traced back to the criminal.
21:52:09 <Halcyon> Which is the point I make Ampera, a criminal record is just what is proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court (and if the magistrate/judge felt like it that day). Their profile in whatever database you can think of says very different.
21:52:11 <Ampera> So it can show there are very likely incidents small enough to be covered up.
21:52:43 <MrMobodies> When I go out the house I am so paranoid I bring around a dictaphone.
21:52:56 <MrMobodies> Just incase there is trouble and I am accued of something.
21:53:04 <Ampera> Where do you live, MrMobodies?
21:53:13 <MrMobodies> Essex in England
21:53:22 <Ampera> mmm.
21:53:46 <Ampera> What I am really trying to say is can you really know how effective your methods are?
21:53:50 <Halcyon> But yes, Ampera, I agree with you, people who committed crimes like those you saw today, THOSE are the people we target, watch and listen to.
21:53:58 <Halcyon> Not old mate down the street carrying a butter knife.
21:54:08 <Halcyon> We know
21:54:13 <Halcyon> I can't say how, but we know.
21:54:14 <Ampera> So then why can't I carry a swiss army knife?
21:54:25 <Halcyon> Because what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
21:54:32 <Ampera> That breaks the law of the conservation of energy, Halcyon.
21:54:33 <Halcyon> It's not one rule for you and one for everyone else.
21:54:41 <Ampera> (that you know)
21:54:50 <Ampera> You can't know something nobody can tell you.
21:55:02 <Halcyon> No, I just know things I can't tell you
21:55:07 <Halcyon> Especially on IRC
21:55:12 <Ampera> I know things I can't tell you either.
21:55:30 <MrMobodies> I know someone who got in trouble for carrying knive in their van, the retractable ones for work.
21:55:37 <Halcyon> Yes, but if I reveal certain things, I'm committing a federal criminal offence.
21:55:37 <MrMobodies> oops knife
21:55:56 <Halcyon> I can be charged for saying something I'm not allowed to.
21:56:01 <Ampera> There are things that, if I were to say them to certain people, would do the exact same thing.
21:56:19 <Ampera> However this shouldn't be a pissing contest of who has the best secrets.
21:56:32 <Halcyon> No it isn't. This is why I downplay what I do for work.
21:56:36 <Ampera> As for the knife thing, my frustration is it bans innocent knives, like a swiss army knife.
21:56:51 <Halcyon> I don't want people to ask questions because it gets awkward when I have to lie.
21:57:10 <Ampera> Lying is a skill like any other, Halcyon, it comes best with practice.
21:57:16 <Halcyon> Oh I know :)
21:57:42 <MrMobodies> I know a good liar and they operate in tbe building trade
21:57:52 <MrMobodies> The are so good at it
21:57:53 <Halcyon> Had this been a conversation face-to-face, I'd be talking about the weather right now.
21:58:00 <MrMobodies> that once they are fond out it is too late
21:58:16 <MrMobodies> Also they are good at getitng out of trouble with it.
21:58:18 <Ampera> A good liar and a good detective are nearly the same person.
21:58:22 <MrMobodies> Yep
21:58:26 <Ampera> It is only to who do they offer their skills for.
21:58:27 <MrMobodies> it takes one to know one there
21:58:41 <MrMobodies> They are good at checking up ont he workers as they steal and lie too
21:58:43 <Halcyon> If you met the Detectives here, you would think they are like Special Officer Doofy
21:58:55 <Halcyon> Honestly, Detectives are largely complete morons.
21:58:56 <MrMobodies> Most of them have to be desperate when working for them.
21:59:04 <Ampera> You mean to tell me that all of your detectives are homosexuals?
21:59:10 <Halcyon> ?!
21:59:13 <Ampera> what?
21:59:23 <Ampera> I didn't expect that sort of response.
21:59:26 <MrMobodies> I like it when detectives play dumb. A joke from Columbo
21:59:35 <Halcyon> What has being gay got to do with anything?
21:59:50 <Ampera> not gonna lie anymore, Halcyon
21:59:54 <Ampera> being gay is pretty gay.
22:00:16 <Halcyon> Detectives in this country are a joke. Gone are the days where they are seasoned investigators. You could have 3-5 years Policing experience here and be a Detective.
22:00:46 <Halcyon> Also Detective isn't a rank, its a position title.
22:00:48 <Ampera> I think if I attempted it, I could be quite a good detective.
22:00:57 <Halcyon> You would be one of the less retarded ones
22:00:59 <Ampera> However one is a profession, the other is a life skill.
22:01:42 <Halcyon> I would even go as far as saying Highway Patrol have more specialised training and experience than many Detectives (not all, but many)
22:02:17 <Ampera> It's people like you, Halcyon, who make me question my like career goals.
22:02:19 <Ampera> *life
22:02:25 <Halcyon> Why is that/
22:02:26 <Halcyon> ?
22:02:38 <Ampera> Pay attention, dear Watson. :P
22:02:48 <Ampera> I already told you, you just didn't see it.
22:02:48 <Halcyon> Are you saying you want to be a copper?
22:03:29 <Ampera> Keeping track of details to the point of perfection is one of my many delights.
22:03:56 <Halcyon> I won't pretend to understand how your many agencies over there work, but I say go for it.
22:03:58 <Ampera> Investigating and looking into crimes would be a neat job to have, in another life, but since I only have the one, I have to settle for the second best thing.
22:04:01 <Halcyon> It's one of the best jobs in the world.
22:04:02 <MrMobodies> Perfection I like that.
22:04:08 <Halcyon> It also opens up many, many doors.
22:04:18 <Ampera> Yes, but if I were to do that I couldn't be here.
22:04:27 <Halcyon> Why not?
22:04:43 <Ampera> Because this is an EEVBlog IRC channel.
22:04:44 <MrMobodies> I get criticised often for making it too perfect and going overkill.
22:04:57 <MrMobodies> Even if it didn't cost them much.
22:04:58 <Halcyon> Here has nothing to do with anything
22:05:06 <Halcyon> Just don't shout your mouth off about things
22:05:16 <Ampera> The difference between a lie and a joke is who is laughing.
22:05:27 <Ampera> Lies are told by laughers, jokes are told for laughers.
22:05:36 <Halcyon> Indeed
22:05:38 <Halcyon> I like that
22:05:59 <Ampera> At the end of the day, the truth is only the best version of what we think we know.
22:06:15 <Halcyon> Anyway It's past my bed time. I'll be back tomorrow, perhaps a game of CAH around 2000hrs UTC+11 ?
22:06:26 <Ampera> relative time please
22:06:44 <Halcyon> In 22 hours
22:06:44 <MrMobodies> The liar I did know did smile or smirk when they thought you wern't looking.
22:06:59 <Ampera> no clue if I'll be up then, it's 6 in the morning right now.
22:07:09 <Ampera> Sounds like a poor liar, MrMobodies.
22:07:11 <Halcyon> I can push it to a bit later then?
22:07:17 <Ampera> I
22:07:27 <Ampera> If I'm up, I'm up.
22:07:29 <Halcyon> Probably not much later than now
22:07:30 <Ampera> If not, I'm not.
22:07:41 <Halcyon> Copy. No worries, will see what tomorrow brings.
22:08:03 <Halcyon> Goodnight all
22:08:12 * Halcyon grabs T3sl4 on the bollocks on the way to bed
22:08:22 <MrMobodies> 6am there and it is 11.13 am in England where I live.
22:08:42 <Ampera> Then your clock is faster than mine.
22:08:48 <Halcyon> MrMobodies: Hopefully you're around for a game tomorrow
22:08:53 <Halcyon> It's 2211 here
22:09:00 <MrMobodies> Game? that would be nice.
22:09:07 <Ampera> Cards against humanity.
22:09:12 <Ampera> Also known as, the answer is Ampera game.
22:09:13 <Halcyon> Yep, you'll need Discord and a web browser to join in
22:09:32 <Halcyon> A hell of a lot of fun
22:09:35 <MrMobodies> Audio chat
22:09:37 <MrMobodies> okay
22:09:41 <Ampera> aye
22:10:08 <MrMobodies> Amp hour game.
22:10:10 <Halcyon> Ampera will give you further instructions at some point.
22:10:16 <Halcyon> Goodnight all
23:21:23 Quit: Iam ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
23:55:54 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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