#eevblog - 2018-12-09 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2018-12-09

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« 2018-12-08 2018-12-10 »
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39:15 Set By: (Halcyon) on: Mon Nov 26 17:51:38 2018
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50:57 <T3sl4> buh
12:30 * steve30 pets T3sl4 
12:39 <T3sl4> :3
14:49 * steve30 needs a coffee 
19:00 <DHess_US> I had to give up coffee.
21:15 <steve30> On the subject of coffee, my coffee lake cpu should come on monday :)
22:56 <DHess_US> What model?  i9?
24:23 <steve30> 8500
25:55 <DHess_US> My current "NOS" Windows 10 system which will be in service in a couple weeks uses a Lynnfield.  Support trailing edge technology.
28:41 <T3sl4> i thought lynnfield was all about the pentiums
28:47 <T3sl4> (i know, bad reference, that's Lynnwood.)
31:42 <DHess_US> Someone gave it to me as a big box full of unopenned parts 9 years ago and I just never put it together until now.
32:20 <DHess_US> The nVidia video card was the only thing which failed by just sitting in a box.
36:08 <Tezzers> So, T3sl4, for those 100R series protection resistors...They don't need to be .25W do they? 
36:25 <T3sl4> i had said 1k, but that's probably not terrible either
37:26 <T3sl4> they don't have to be anything, the zener absorbs the punch
37:28 <Tezzers> I'm not entirely sure coz I've got a switch matrix I'm driving with the micro, micro drives the rows with a 7407 open collector buffer, reads the columns, so idk how much current that's going to be sinking when it cans the columns? 
37:42 <Tezzers> I was just going to use resistors alone :v
37:54 <T3sl4> oh, well then like a meg and 1/2W
38:10 <Tezzers> ...what? 
38:10 <T3sl4> although that'll still spark over
38:23 <Tezzers> ...what? 
38:31 <T3sl4> ESD?
38:41 <Tezzers> Oh 
39:03 <Tezzers> My father said to put series resistors on the micro I/O pins, and c4757p said the same thing. 
39:11 <Tezzers> But, that's got to do with overdriving it, no? 
39:16 <Tezzers> Not ESD?
39:25 <T3sl4> ESD is a lot of drive
40:25 <DHess_US> ESD usually ignores the series resistance because higher values of resistance will just break down anyway.
41:36 <DHess_US> You have to use high voltage resistors but most applicaitons do not require that kind of protection.  Normal diodes and zener diodes work well.
41:37 <T3sl4> i've seen one datasheet where chip resistors were rated for kV -- in a potted system, mind
42:05 <DHess_US> kilovolts of breakdown?  I might believe that in a conformally coated hybrid.
42:11 <T3sl4> exactly
42:58 <T3sl4> basically, you can't drop ESD, so you have to do the opposite, shunt it
42:58 <DHess_US> Usually it doesn't matter.  Just use a low enough value of resistance to *not* breakdown and let the shunt diodes eat it which they are good at.
43:06 <coppice> T3sl4: how much pot does it require to believe that?
43:36 <T3sl4> coppice: idunno, probably a lot; they removed it in a later version of the datasheet, although that was maybe just because the mfg was bought out
44:04 <T3sl4> the diode will drop 10s of volts during an ESD spike, which is still enough to overpower the MCU, so you put a series resistor between them to give the MCU's diodes a chance of survival
46:03 <DHess_US> I wonder how that could be meaured.
46:18 <T3sl4> what?
46:27 <DHess_US> The peak voltage on the diodes.
46:59 <DHess_US> ESD rise times are awfully fast.
47:58 <T3sl4> scopes do it just fine 
48:15 <DHess_US> But you still need a low capactiance probe which won't break down.
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49:47 <T3sl4> nah, it's low impedance after the diode -- just zap it into 50 ohms or whatever
50:46 <T3sl4> somewhere there's a diagram, i think by on semi, showing a TVS on a board, zap one side with the ESD gun, other side goes down a coax
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50:51 <Tezzers> So, do they make ESD clamping chips that I can just whack on in series with my IO pins? 
50:58 <T3sl4> sure
51:13 <Tezzers> For a few cents probably :v
51:24 <IoTPanic> Look at a computer motherboard
51:25 <coppice> in parallel works better
51:27 <IoTPanic> Littered with them
51:43 <DHess_US> They sure do.  They are common for things like any exposed high speed interface like USB.
54:39 <T3sl4> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nexperia-usa-inc/PESD5V0S4UD115/1727-3928-1-ND/1644632 for example
54:41 <Tezzers> So, TVS diodes is what it would be? :v
57:01 <Tezzers> T3sl4: So how would that be connected up? 
57:30 <T3sl4> https://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/06/1d/48/9c/6c/20/4a/b2/CD00050750.pdf/files/CD00050750.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.CD00050750.pdf another good way
57:32 <Tezzers> Signal on 2, u pin on 5? 
58:23 <T3sl4> GND to GND
58:28 <T3sl4> Vbus to +5 or open
59:10 <Tezzers> That ST part looks good :v It looks more understandable :v
59:26 <Tezzers> I think i used it once too <_<
59:35 <T3sl4> the PESD, 2 and 5 to GND
00:41 <T3sl4> the rest of the pins are whatever IOs you want
00:58 <T3sl4> wire comes in, goes to TVS, resistor from TVS to MCU
01:40 <coppice> but, i thought resistance is futile
01:59 <T3sl4> the USBLC you should use a thru connection, wire to pin 1, pin 6 resistor to MCU
02:11 * IoTPanic Slaps coppice
04:20 <IoTPanic> Has anyone used RISC-V micros recently?
04:24 <T3sl4> it seems the resistance to violence has proven futile
04:38 <IoTPanic> Im in America, I can confirm
04:53 <coppice> IoTPanic: I would get a lot have used them recently than used them in the distant past
05:00 <coppice> s/get/guess
05:36 <IoTPanic> I see the prices, not sure why id want to make a product with it
05:40 <IoTPanic> atm
05:53 <T3sl4> the more people use it, the lower the price will eventually go
05:53 <IoTPanic> A lot of people doing it anyways
05:59 <IoTPanic> Thats true
06:04 <Tezzers> Is there a cheaper solution than 50 cents per two IO pins? 
06:18 <IoTPanic> Wdym?
06:43 <T3sl4> yeah, do 2000 IO pins
06:46 <Tezzers> T3sl4: Coz, that just seems a bit ridiculous to do that 
07:04 <coppice> Tezzers: well, obviously there are, because few can afford 50c for 2 pins
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07:16 <T3sl4> i did a 64 channel digital output (industrial), lots of current limiting and diodes. that's not ridiculous
07:56 <T3sl4> single quantity pricing is basically irrelevant
08:11 <Tezzers> You mean two diodes per pin, plus a resistor? 
08:12 <DHess_US> LTT did a recent article on it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnCok1H3-g
08:30 <IoTPanic> Indeed
08:33 <IoTPanic> Good video
08:48 <IoTPanic> Im excited for RISC-V, really am
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09:11 <coppice> why is it exciting?
09:23 <IoTPanic> Efficient relative to x86 
09:41 <T3sl4> excited, i really ARM
09:42 <IoTPanic> 1000s of instructions down to hundreds, plus a LOT of baked in security x86 strongly lacks
10:02 <DHess_US> Efficiency isn't what will give it design wins.  Being open source so you can stick a customized version into a standard cell library or FPGA is.
10:09 <IoTPanic> Yes
10:16 <IoTPanic> Any company can make their own
10:22 <IoTPanic> N licencing
10:25 <coppice> IoTPanic: do you always believe the mnarketing blurb?
10:40 <IoTPanic> @coppice If it were just marketing material yes
10:42 <DHess_US> Baked in security?  Security is easier when your performance is low because of no speculation.
11:07 <IoTPanic> There are zero day issues in x86 memory managment
11:15 <coppice> Baked in security == people haven't yet looked hard enough to find the flaws
11:20 <IoTPanic> Hence the recent viruses that take advantage
11:23 <IoTPanic> True
11:40 <IoTPanic> To an extent
11:50 <IoTPanic> When x86 was made, they only wanted soemthing fast
12:03 <IoTPanic> Todays computer hackers were non existent 
12:10 <T3sl4> in what way was x86 fast?
12:16 <coppice> The 8086 was a stop gap student project
12:31 <T3sl4> or if you meant that as "they needed a solution, fast"
12:41 <IoTPanic> So why do your tablets use x86 and now powerPC @T2sl4 
12:42 <DHess_US> x86 is fast in the way that it has been refining speculative execution for a long time.
12:53 <IoTPanic> not**
12:58 <IoTPanic> t3, wow
13:11 <IoTPanic> I dont have the autocomplete in this stupid IRC program
13:17 <T3sl4> wow
13:27 <IoTPanic> Switching back to Fedora later
13:30 <IoTPanic> Fuck windows
13:45 <T3sl4> i don't have tablets, your argument is invalid ;)
13:58 <IoTPanic> ATSAMD21G18A driver just played nicer. And I was simply making a CPU argument
14:01 <coppice> who used a Power PC in a tablet?
14:03 <IoTPanic> Idk what you have
14:07 <IoTPanic> Apple
14:10 <IoTPanic> Newton
14:19 <IoTPanic> Right?
14:25 <coppice> The Newton was ARM based
14:31 <T3sl4> my tablet has perfect security. one time pad (pen can come, too).
14:37 <Tezzers> T3sl4: Any examples of what you were talking about for discrete diodes + series res?
14:55 <DHess_US> As far as RISC-V, I see it repeating the same mistakes of earlier CPUs so the only interesting part is open source and well supported.
15:17 <IoTPanic> @coppice ah, you learn something new every day, and what kind of mistakes @DHess_US?
17:30 <IoTPanic> Simply put, I feel x86 needs to be replaced at some point, moores law is done, we need to be using space as efficiently as possible in my book. 
17:38 <DHess_US> It throws away generated state on ALU instructions.
18:20 <IoTPanic> I have been wanting to dig into CPU cores a lot more, I understand the ALU just find, I do not understand generated state. Could you explain?
18:27 <IoTPanic> fine**
19:21 <coppice> If the RISC-V people and a good pool other related IP prpviders can get a plug and play setup going, they might really get somewhere. So few people can attempt a custom chip these days, thay I can't see RISC-V ever being much more than a niche approach. If it had been 5 years earlier it might have been where the ARM M series cores are today.
19:43 <DHess_US> It looks like something students would have designed without compiler or hardware support.
20:06 <coppice> It has good compiler support
20:20 <DHess_US> Yes, but the ISA doesn't support compilers.
20:34 <IoTPanic> Im not too sure about that. If it were that bad there wouldnt be so many big companies behind it. IBM and Nvidia, etc 
20:57 <DHess_US> It's like it was designed for some fictional unicorn compiler and hardware which never existed.
20:59 <coppice> Since when are IGM and N-Vidia behind it?
21:02 <coppice> IBM
21:17 <IoTPanic> Let me go look at the page
21:47 <IoTPanic> Yeah, Qualcomm, NXP, everyone is here
21:48 <IoTPanic> Google
21:57 <IoTPanic> https://riscv.org/ Look at the list
22:00 <IoTPanic> Its very very long
22:08 <IoTPanic> Of very big names
22:17 <coppice> DHess_US: I haven't look closely, but your comment sounds odd. The whole program from which RISC-V was derived was predicated on "it only needs to run C"
22:17 <DHess_US> IoTPanic, it throws away ALU state so it has to be recomputed as needed when the state already existed.  They did this to solve the problem of an aliased flags register which is a big problem but in doing so, they made it inefficient.
22:49 <IoTPanic> Ah, got it @DHess_US Im sure there was a reason
23:02 <IoTPanic> But I dont like seeing efficiency go down
23:09 <DHess_US> IoTPanic, the reason was they didn't think of the obvious solution.
23:38 <DHess_US> That's why I said it looks like a student project.
23:49 <coppice> IoTPanic: the only commitment most of those people have made is to allow their logo to go on a page at riscv.org. Its only a few people, like NXP and Western Digital, which have commited real resources so far
24:21 <IoTPanic> The ability to add co processors so easily is also pretty cool. And ah @coppice
24:43 <DHess_US> Which is what they have been touting at the solution to RISC-V's poor performance.
24:47 <coppice> DHess_US: if you look at a lot of compiled x86 code it also recomputes things like that much of the time
25:30 <IoTPanic> So anyone got a better architecture? I wanna buy a FPGA, play with a few, then make my own simply for the learning experience
25:39 <coppice> IoTPanic: who cares? what people want is things like SIMD built in, not non-standard add ons which the compilers don't support
25:50 <IoTPanic> Yet
26:00 <DHess_US> coppice, that is because of two register instructions which is a different and arguably irrelevent problem when you have an out of order pipeline to support a high load-to-use latency from the cache.
27:49 <DHess_US> In a simplied chip, you don't have out-of-order so you cannot rely on that.  RISC designs  use 3 operand instructions for that reason but it becomes a liability at higher performance levels where an out-of-order pipeline is used.
27:58 <coppice> IoTPanic: the ability to alter the instuction set in custom ways has a better history of proving useful than the ability to add co-processors. It still needs compiler support to be easy to use, but it is an approach which has proven useful in the past
28:13 <DHess_US> The liablity is that 3 operand instructions require more register file ports which is a significant limiation.
28:59 <IoTPanic> @coppice Im sure, but if you are trying to say develop a machine learning platform for a one off project, you can really easily add a "Nero" processor 
29:14 <IoTPanic> Which would simply be an FPGA or somethin
29:16 <DHess_US> That's why x86 ended up doing so well as far as performance at the high end.  That liability became and advantage later.
30:03 <IoTPanic> But are we able to agree x86 needs some form of replacement? Maybe not RISC-V but something
30:10 <IoTPanic> Or am I the only one
30:22 <IoTPanic> Not today, but someday
30:26 <T3sl4> "need" is a peculiar word
30:33 <DHess_US> x86 won't be replaced due to technical merit.
30:36 <coppice> IoTPanic: for AI, people don't seem to be having any issues with the weaker level of integration possible with a FPGA and an off the shelf processor
30:39 <T3sl4> history has shown backwards compatibility rules all
30:59 <IoTPanic> True, hence why windows is still used as a "business OS"
31:16 <coppice> T3sl4: backwards compatibility has limited appeal in embedded systems
31:25 <T3sl4> the greater priority seems to be, commit to making really stonking great transpilers, so you can "emulate" any program code on a given platform
31:52 <DHess_US> And limited appeal for JIT systems.  Oddly enough, the disadvantages of x86 give it great performance on JIT system.
33:16 <DHess_US> JIT = just in time compiled systems like JAVA and Javascript and whatnot.
33:51 <IoTPanic> Does python fit in that or is it in just its own interpreter category? 
34:08 <DHess_US> It it doesn't have a JIT compiler then it will eventually.
34:27 <T3sl4> how is python usually coded? native libs?
34:42 <IoTPanic> Not really if devs are being honest
34:43 <T3sl4> i think there's a java/script version of it so it literally doesn't really matter
34:54 <IoTPanic> You CAN
35:18 <IoTPanic> But most say "Why would you, theres thousands of libs for everything"
35:36 <IoTPanic> Honestly, loosing love for Python
35:45 <IoTPanic> Quickly
49:46 <DHess_US> I think a better design would be to instead of storing the ALU state into a contested flags register (x86) or throwing it away (RISC-V), store it into a flags register associated with each register sort of like a parallel register file.  That prevents contention (X86) or recomputing (RISC-V) and adds free register ports compared to RISC-V.
50:10 <DHess_US> PowerPC went partially that way with a small set of flag registers.
50:16 <DHess_US> I don't remember what ARM does.
50:49 <DHess_US> The problem with PowerPC is that you have to specify a destination from flags.  Why bother?
51:02 <IoTPanic> Hm, interesting
51:54 <DHess_US> Carry is the important flag which isn't recoverable but there are also flags like auxilary carries.  Why throw that data out to prevent having to recompute it?
52:28 <DHess_US> Some of the SSE/AVX register sin x86 sort of so something similar with a "used" flag.
52:58 <DHess_US> So in theory a subroutine call can save *only* the registers which ahve bene used since the last call but it didn't work out.
53:46 <DHess_US> So stick that flag, it's only one bit, into the parallel flag registers also.
54:16 <DHess_US> It would be good for real time interrupts.
55:56 <DHess_US> Most flags don't have any state but there might be advantages to storing them anyway.  You could choose to do their computatio early or late depending on which was higher performance.
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07:42 <IoTPanic> Finger phone anyone? https://twitter.com/IoTPanic/status/1071496913223073792
08:41 <coppice> nah, its not my thing
08:52 <IoTPanic> Its just clickbait
09:00 <IoTPanic> I just thought it was hilarious
09:49 <IoTPanic> I dont see anyone replacing their smartphone with this
09:56 <IoTPanic> Imagine the battery life
18:30 <coppice> I don't think they will fly off the shelf as well as drones
18:50 <IoTPanic> Nope
19:32 <IoTPanic> See the Intel drones they use for swarming? Quite impressive. They are really stable
19:42 <IoTPanic> Even the tiny ones in wind
33:14 <coppice> I want to see the mechanical bees in Black Mirror realised
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13:01 <Halcyon> Morning all
13:52 <IoTPanic> UTC+5 its not, but good morning 
14:08 <IoTPanic> GMT wor
14:12 <IoTPanic> wow
14:16 <Halcyon> :D
14:52 <steve30> hi Halcyon 
15:19 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :D
15:30 * T3sl4 shakes Halcyon
15:39 * Halcyon grumbles
15:44 <Halcyon> Coffee first
16:08 <T3sl4> steve30: you know what to do
31:21 <IoTPanic> i just made garlic bread out of a hot dog roll.  Better than fuckin olive garden
33:05 <T3sl4> :D
33:44 <Halcyon> I just made eggs and baked beans on toast with fresh jalapeno and smokey tabasco sauce
33:55 <T3sl4> woot
34:08 <Halcyon> Except I overcooked the yolk :(
34:36 <Halcyon> What's the Olive Garden? I mean I know it's a restaurant but why do people keep talking about it ?
34:56 <T3sl4> it's mediocre commodity italian-american food
35:04 <IoTPanic> Oh man, I found the best sunny side up recipe today, takes legit 45 seconds. Perfect yoke. And that breakfast sounds great. And there are unlimited "amazing" bread sticks
35:29 <IoTPanic> Basically 65% of white people here are huge suckers for unlimited frozen breadsticks
35:34 <Halcyon> Ahh, so its just typical big chain type food?
35:41 <IoTPanic> Its quite gross
35:45 <IoTPanic> But yeah
35:52 <Halcyon> Breadsticks? Like thin crispy things?
35:58 <IoTPanic> In my opinion anyway. And no
36:03 <IoTPanic> Let me get a photo
36:12 <T3sl4> mini baguettes, more like
36:22 <Halcyon> Oh, so basically bread rolls?
36:36 <IoTPanic> https://media.olivegarden.com/en_us/images/product/d-parties-to-go-dozen-breadsticks-dpv.jpg
36:38 <T3sl4> those are soft tho
36:53 <Halcyon> Bread sticks are not?
36:54 <IoTPanic> From olive garden themselves
36:59 <IoTPanic> Idk man
37:21 <IoTPanic> Its american italian
37:26 <IoTPanic> Its all lies
37:54 <T3sl4> filthy eye-talian americans
38:00 <IoTPanic> It's like American Chinese food. 
38:02 <Halcyon> I think the closest we have is something like Sizzler, it's not really italian though
38:24 <Halcyon> I think the last time I went to Sizzler was when I was 10
39:25 <Halcyon> Although Pizza Hut restaurants were good, there are only a small handful of the dine-in places left
39:53 <IoTPanic> I guess if you turned sizzler into a Italian joint you may get olive garden. And not where Im from. Portland Main has a TON of small pizza places
40:02 <IoTPanic> And coffee places
40:29 <IoTPanic> We have a very strange group of people and it usually causes a lot of smaller shops to open to the niches
40:41 <Halcyon> Yeh most of the food places here are small, independent places. The large chains are mostly Mcdonalds, KFC and so on. Not exactly what I would consider a "restaurant"
41:28 <IoTPanic> I mean, each one of those has a restaurant nearby, but I dont have any of those near enough to walk and there's usually only one or two. Biggest city in Maine
41:33 <IoTPanic> "City"
41:43 * Halcyon googles Maine
42:04 <IoTPanic> There is no actual Urban area in Maine, we are one of the five united states without one
42:20 <Halcyon> At least you're near the coast
42:23 <T3sl4> oh, i was about to say OR has a lot of weird people, but that too
42:25 <Halcyon> Not in the middle of no where
42:42 <IoTPanic> We are like canada but without free healthcare and FOX news. But yes, a lot of Lobstaaa heraaa
43:03 <IoTPanic> We supply the world with lobster 
43:12 <Halcyon> Meh, seafood
43:15 <T3sl4> it's quite fishable up there
43:17 <IoTPanic> At least the good lobster, the real sought after red lobster
43:21 <IoTPanic> And yes, very
43:31 <IoTPanic> I can walk down thestreet right now and fish
43:36 <Halcyon> Ill salmon though
43:42 <IoTPanic> Still got it
43:49 <IoTPanic> Come on over
43:58 <IoTPanic> All but New Yorkers and Massholes welcome
44:02 <T3sl4> :D
44:30 <T3sl4> i'd say something about coasts, but here on Michigan we have smelly fish you probably shouldn't eat anyway
45:02 <IoTPanic> None of us are nice though, everyone is an asshole here. I say good morning to several people every morning. Im lucky if I get ONE back. And yeah 😂
45:09 <Halcyon> Hmm that was really disappointing Jalapeno, no heat at all. It was like capsicum :(
45:15 <IoTPanic> Dang
45:15 <T3sl4> aw
45:27 * T3sl4 swats at Halcyon with a bag of cayenne
45:31 <IoTPanic> My girlfriend bought the hot sauce and Im mad
45:32 <Halcyon> :D
45:39 <Halcyon> Did she get it wrong?
45:42 <T3sl4> the not sauce?
45:44 <IoTPanic> Coyboy pete. 
45:54 <IoTPanic> Sugarwater
45:55 <Halcyon> We don't like Cowboy Pete?
46:19 <IoTPanic> I don't. It has a lot of sugar and crap
46:33 <T3sl4> if you're going to get a "sugarwater" sauce, just get thai chili sauce. so much better
46:38 <Halcyon> Yeh no good
46:39 <IoTPanic> Its not like a bunch of peppers been mullin in a jar for a while
46:58 <IoTPanic> or chilis. I used to make my own. Should do it again
47:09 <IoTPanic> Was REAL heat
47:09 <Halcyon> This place makes some AMAZING chilli: https://thechillifactory.com
47:17 <Halcyon> If you guys ever want some, I can ship it over to you
48:13 <IoTPanic> "No MSG added" why is that a plus? Im just curious. And it looks awesome
48:25 <IoTPanic> Gallon jug, dang
48:27 <Halcyon> MSG is seen as a bad thing in Australia
48:32 <Halcyon> Most things don't have MSG
48:58 <Halcyon> It's usually used in terrible Chinese food
49:56 <T3sl4> as long as they use plenty of inosine guanylate i'm fine
50:01 <Halcyon> Their Chilli wasabi mustard is gorgeous, really nice on ham and cheese toasted sandwiches.
50:08 <T3sl4> ooh
50:11 <IoTPanic> My step mother bought my dad a gallon of Tabasco that was signed by the owner for Christmas one year. Buy me a gallon of that sauce @Halcyon. And man, did you know you have taste buds in your mouth  that ONLY respond to MSG. Its legit its own flavor. You're  adding more taste
50:41 <IoTPanic> The fact its bad actually starts from a very racist medical report
50:54 <IoTPanic> That has been proven to be false
50:56 <Halcyon> MSG makes me sleepy
51:01 <Halcyon> And gives me an itchy nose
51:10 <IoTPanic> Not the MSG
51:16 <IoTPanic> It is like a spice
51:18 <IoTPanic> Not a drug
51:23 <IoTPanic> Itchy nose, fine
51:26 <Halcyon> It's a salt isn't it?
51:31 <IoTPanic> No
51:35 <IoTPanic> Its from seeweed
51:37 <Halcyon> Hense "MonoSODIUM"
51:38 <IoTPanic> Seaweed
51:48 <IoTPanic> Well, I guess technically probably
52:01 <T3sl4> MSG is natural, though not in such concentrations as it's usually used
52:22 <Halcyon> It occurs naturally in some foods, but there is also a synthetic version from memory.
52:23 <IoTPanic> But its not salt like what youre thinking. And it has been proven to be safe to consume a butt ton of it
52:30 <IoTPanic> Not that you SHOULD like anything
52:32 <T3sl4> and yes, a salt of glutamic acid
52:44 <IoTPanic> If you eat a ton of salt that will kill you eventually.
52:52 <IoTPanic> Or even pepper
52:55 <Halcyon> It normally comes in powdered/crystal form
52:59 <IoTPanic> Yes
53:13 <Halcyon> I think the seaweed thing you're thinking of is Kombu
53:17 <T3sl4> trivia: the LD50 of chromium chloride is similar to that of sodium chloride
53:18 <IoTPanic> No
53:27 <T3sl4> not that either one would be a very pleasant thing to test.
53:33 <IoTPanic> Let me try to find a fascinating video
53:34 <Halcyon> Good to know T3sl4  :)
53:57 <T3sl4> "Today, instead of extracting and crystallizing MSG from seaweed broth, MSG is produced by the fermentation of starch, sugar beets, sugar cane or molasses"
54:19 <Halcyon> Ahh there you go
54:27 <IoTPanic> Ah, prove me wrong and I learn something
54:28 <Halcyon> Seaweed is so versatile
54:32 <IoTPanic> Indeed
54:35 <IoTPanic> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm8Yx-gWlMs
54:41 <IoTPanic> About MSG
54:43 <IoTPanic> If you want
55:08 <Halcyon> But yeh, I know when something has MSG added because very shortly after my nose starts to itch
55:16 * Halcyon watches
55:33 <T3sl4> my brother has a reaction to it too apparently
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55:58 <Halcyon> I mean yeh people freak out over MSG
56:09 <IoTPanic> I have a bad memory, so you can see how I test bad. I can watch the video and regurgitate all the facts wrong. Are you sure its not something else commonly used along with MSG in things like chinese food? But it can be a thing a I beileve. But pepper also bothers some people. Im not saying eat it, but its not necessarily bad
56:10 <Halcyon> But then again, I rarely add regular salt to food
56:16 <Halcyon> Most food just doesn't need extra salt
56:26 <Halcyon> I use chilli to enhance flavours
56:43 <Halcyon> I don't eat Chinese that often
56:55 <IoTPanic> I will add salt to reduce things, and me either. Since I cant get real chinese
56:59 <Halcyon> As far as I know, I'm not allergic or sensitive to anything else
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57:01 <T3sl4> i find i use relatively a lot of salt, maybe 50% more than average..? not a lot a lot more
57:02 <IoTPanic> Real chinese looks pretty good.
57:08 <T3sl4> presumably i drink more water to balance :P
57:18 <IoTPanic> That usually happens
57:39 <Halcyon> I use chilli flakes or powder like people use salt
57:45 <Halcyon> On almost every food
57:47 <IoTPanic> There you go
58:12 <Halcyon> Although yesterday I over-did it with the fresh chilli. Had to get up at 0100 to go to the bathroom :P
58:16 <T3sl4> i use sriracha like people use ketchup
58:24 <Halcyon> The slight heating sensation was nice though
58:28 <IoTPanic> Oh, and @Halcyon, you want to get a perfect egg? https://www.myrecipes.com/extracrispy/this-is-the-trick-to-making-perfect-sunny-side-up-eggs 
58:33 <T3sl4> that's not good news for your boyfriend :P
58:47 <Halcyon> I'm the top anyway so I wouldn't matter :P
58:47 <T3sl4> unless you...nevermind
58:51 <T3sl4> ^
58:52 <IoTPanic> I found this today and got really good results, referencing your breakfast.
58:54 <Halcyon> *grin*
59:08 * IoTPanic Acknowledges the gayness
59:11 <Halcyon> IoTPanic: Yep, that's the way I cook eggs anyway
59:17 <Halcyon> Always add a bit of water
59:33 <IoTPanic> Oh okay, awesome. I have not found a single peer who cooks eggs right
59:44 <IoTPanic> Everyone here cooks scrambles eggs like its a race
59:46 <Halcyon> I like eggs, in fact I should eat more of them
59:57 <Halcyon> It's good for lowering bad cholesterol
00:00 <T3sl4> scrambled should be done fast, so it stays tender
00:12 <Halcyon> No T3sl4, low and slow with scrambled
00:13 <IoTPanic> Im talking about the whisking process 
00:16 <Halcyon> That way they stay creamy
00:23 <IoTPanic> and you want creamy
00:31 <Halcyon> I take a good 10-15 minutes with scrambled eggs
00:31 <IoTPanic> French style as I call them
00:32 <T3sl4> hrm
00:54 <Halcyon> Then take them off the head completely while they are still under-done, they'll finish off under their own heat while you prep other things
00:59 <IoTPanic> American is hot and fast for tenderness, everyone else makes it on low and takes their time so they are creamy. Sometimes adding butter
01:09 <IoTPanic> To cool it right down after
43:03 <Halcyon> I was talking about eggs
43:08 <IoTPanic> Oh yeah
43:14 <IoTPanic> Let me go watch that
43:15 <Halcyon> IoTPanic: Topics like this always end the same way :P
43:26 <IoTPanic> I figured
43:28 <Halcyon> I mean it's good you guys can be civil about it
43:34 <Halcyon> Some just get fucking stupid
44:08 <Halcyon> I'm also looking for UPSs... should I buy one big one, or two smaller ones?
44:26 <IoTPanic> I know, its just how it always ends. If people want to be stupid I dont want to have an adult conversation with them. that was better than like 98% of conversations I have
44:37 <IoTPanic> Idk man
45:12 <IoTPanic> Redundancy vs cost? Is that the question?
45:37 <Halcyon> Well two 1.5kVA would be cheaper than a single 3kVA
45:55 <IoTPanic> Ah, well then idk. I dont buy many UPSs
46:16 <DHess_US> I live 30 minutes west of the US city with the highest violent crime rate. I had the option of driving into exactly the worst area yesterday to fill some propane tanks and did not for that reason. And I carry a Glock 20 and have defended myself twice with it without killing anybody, shooting, or even brandishing.
47:27 <Halcyon> DHess_US: That is unheard of here. No civilian here carries a firearm
47:42 <Halcyon> I don't think we have a place that bad where you would need to
47:55 <DHess_US> Firearm? No, I carry a Glock 20. (gun joke)
48:01 <Halcyon> ;-)
48:06 <Halcyon> We use Glock 22's at work
48:31 <DHess_US> Cthulhu holding my Glock 20 for me. https://i.ibb.co/f0cKDPk/G20-Evil.jpg
50:23 <DHess_US> I didn't know .40S&W was popular in Australia. I thought you would carry Glock 17s.
50:50 <DHess_US> I'm probably the only person in Missouri who carries a Glock 20. 10mm Auto is very rare here.
50:53 <Halcyon> 22's are standard issue
51:03 <Halcyon> Some detectives and plain clothes Police use smaller ones
52:05 <DHess_US> There has been a big push in the US to switch back to 9mm from 40S&W so a lot of police trade in Glock 22s and 23s and other .40 S&W pistols are showing up on the civlian market.
53:31 <DHess_US> Probably a lot of police departments switching to the 9mm Sig P320 because our military is adopting it.
54:00 <Halcyon> I really don't care about guns, I'd hand mine in if I could
54:24 <DHess_US> I used to shoot a little competition which was fun.
55:27 <DHess_US> At one point I was practicing so much that when I went to informally target shoot with my friends, we had to set up two areas because otherwise I would knock down all of their targets before they got them.
55:38 <Halcyon> Heh
57:43 <DHess_US> The gun control argument usually ignores how often civilians lawfully defend themselves. That goes away if guns magically dissappear which is an entirely separate problem.
05:57 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:17 <Halcyon> I should mow the lawns today
12:22 <Halcyon> But CBF
13:25 <IoTPanic> Lmao
16:36 Quit: WebChatUser ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Chat Network - WebIRC
17:09 <DHess_US> CBF?
17:34 <coppice> it means impregnable
17:38 <Halcyon> Can't be fucked
17:42 <Halcyon> :D
17:45 <Halcyon> Indeed coppice
22:48 <Halcyon> It's oddly amusing watching Russians doing crazy shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzhnacacYJ8
24:22 <T3sl4> considering photonicinduction is out of commission :/
25:08 <Halcyon> Yeh what happened to him?
25:25 <IoTPanic> #BringBackCrazyRussianHackerAfterHeTriedToKillEveryoneWithDryIrce
25:42 <T3sl4> last i heard he couldn't get papers for his indian wife to come over and he's been depressed af for the last 2+ years :/
25:43 <IoTPanic> I love the internet
25:54 <IoTPanic> Is that the high voltage guy?
25:57 <Halcyon> Yep
26:07 <T3sl4> "eee popped iiit"
26:09 <IoTPanic> Oh yeah... that bloke.
26:12 <IoTPanic> I miss him
26:28 <Halcyon> Not meaning to be racist, but there is always something dodgy about someone "falling in love" with someone from India or China etc... and getting married straight away,
26:34 <Halcyon> It just doesn't sit right with me
27:27 <T3sl4> suspicious often enough, but not exclusive
27:34 <Halcyon> True true
27:38 <IoTPanic> I do not think that is a racist question
27:45 <IoTPanic> Just a rule of thumb
27:53 <IoTPanic> or statment rather
27:55 <Halcyon> I just hope he isn't being taken advantage of
28:18 <T3sl4> a correlation
29:18 <IoTPanic> I think that can be said true of just women in general, not just from India or china but every other country
29:27 <Halcyon> Indeed
29:32 <coppice> Halcyon: I only married my wife so I could stay in HK
29:51 <Halcyon> It's not just women though, quite often its men who take advantage of vulnerable women and scam them of their money
30:03 <Halcyon> Coppice: Not because you love her? ;-)
30:26 <coppice> nah, don't be silly
30:32 <Halcyon> *grin*
36:06 <coppice> Halcyon: I do understand that feeling of going to China, seeing someone truly delightful, and really really struggling to be free of thinking of her. It works with the Philipinnes too.
38:02 <IoTPanic> Are there any AWS nerds in this chatroom?
39:16 <Halcyon> Fair enough
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48:12 Quit: WebChatUser ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Chat Network - WebIRC
50:06 * Halcyon noms on tuna
54:35 * IoTPanic starts eating hot dogs and beans
54:40 <Halcyon> \o/
54:44 <Halcyon> Did you put cheese on them too?
54:58 <Halcyon> And chilli sauce?
55:04 <IoTPanic> My girlfriend made me get cheese dogs... so sadly
55:15 <Halcyon> Cheese dogs?
55:24 <Halcyon> Sausages with cheese already in it?
55:29 <IoTPanic> If it were a good cheese or a good dog I wouldnt complain. And its a hotdog with cheese injected into it
55:31 <IoTPanic> Yeah
55:31 <coppice> our dog loves cheese
55:34 <Halcyon> Oh gawd
55:36 <Halcyon> Sounds gross
55:39 <IoTPanic> It is
55:46 <IoTPanic> Most dogs do
55:49 <Halcyon> I think all dogs love cheese
56:00 <Halcyon> My parents dog comes running when it hears the cheese wrapper
56:12 <coppice> cheesy sausages are pretty common
56:34 <coppice> do cheese wrappers have a distinctive noise?
56:36 <IoTPanic> Oscar Myers $3.22 for like 12
56:51 <IoTPanic> Nasty
57:02 <Halcyon> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNNV4mKUQAAN3Lf.jpg
57:16 <IoTPanic> Lmao
57:42 <IoTPanic> My old dog fiona, sarcastically the best guard dog ever
58:37 <Halcyon> Dogs are the best
58:44 <Halcyon> I had a standard poodle, but my ex kept him :(
59:03 <IoTPanic> Aw
59:12 <IoTPanic> Drug the bitch
59:25 <Halcyon> This was about 3 years ago
59:25 <coppice> couldn't you afford a deluxe poodle
59:32 <Halcyon> :P
59:35 <Halcyon> Oh Coppice
59:37 <Ampera> good evening
59:55 <Halcyon> Hey Ampera
00:05 <Ampera> shut up :P
00:11 <IoTPanic> Shhh, you were supposed to ignore him
00:19 <IoTPanic> I was going for silence
00:20 <Ampera> lol
00:34 <IoTPanic> make him think he died and turned into a ghost
00:40 <IoTPanic> We cant see or hear him
00:49 <Halcyon> He would love that
01:03 <IoTPanic> he would if he were still alive *sneeze*
01:28 <Ampera> yeah I'm dead inside
01:36 <Ampera> and nothing of value was lost
03:04 <Halcyon> Says you
03:11 <Halcyon> Some people actually like you Ampera
03:14 <Halcyon> You nut bag
03:29 <Ampera> those people must be really sad to like someone like me
03:36 <Ampera> poor suckers
03:45 <Halcyon> I'm not sad
04:05 <Ampera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml1KWdbrXF0
04:18 <Ampera> eat some animal farm
04:47 <Halcyon> Terrible
04:52 <Halcyon> I'm looking at dog memes
04:54 <IoTPanic> Are you all 29 views?
04:58 <IoTPanic> And one thumbs up?
06:10 <Ampera> lol, these are the highest quality versions of the songs, the ones that YouTube upload
06:41 <Halcyon> Bahahah https://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/July-14-2011-00-16-50-always.jpg
06:48 <Halcyon> Husky's are cute
11:00 <IoTPanic> Im gonna go skiing tomarrow... I shoulda brought an accelerator and a dev board or sometin from work to clock myself.
20:37 <Halcyon> Also accurate: http://cdn0.wideopenpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Pet-Meme-01.jpg
20:57 <damian> my dog just licks himself until i wake up
20:59 <damian> it's damn annoying
21:05 <Halcyon> Slurpy noises?
21:09 <damian> yeah
21:18 <Halcyon> Hahaha
21:19 <damian> every morning i hope that i'm getting a blowjob and havne't felt it yet
21:21 <damian> but no, it's just the dog
23:03 <Halcyon> Haha charming
23:50 <Halcyon> Also, very mean of your partner
23:59 <T3sl4> peanut butter, my friend
24:04 <Halcyon> Hahaha
24:09 <Halcyon> So wrong T3sl4
36:41 * Halcyon is thinking of switchen to Fedora
36:48 <Halcyon> *switching
37:40 <IoTPanic> Yay, do it, do it
39:06 <IoTPanic> If you love CentOS but a bit less server like, better for laptop or desktop at home
39:31 <IoTPanic> Gnome 2 is default 
39:37 <Halcyon> Ew Gnome
39:59 <IoTPanic> You can change it
40:01 <Halcyon> I'm assuming I can install MATE 
40:06 <IoTPanic> Funny thing linux
40:19 <IoTPanic> Yep
41:11 <Halcyon> What's annoying though is I've only got a spare 120GB SSD, the one in this is 240GB
41:16 <Halcyon> So I'd need to format and start over
41:50 <IoTPanic> Why cant you use the 128gb?
42:03 <Halcyon> I need the space
42:12 <Ampera> MATE is Gnome 2.
42:19 <IoTPanic> No
42:20 <Halcyon> I currently have only 45GB free on this drive
42:23 <IoTPanic> What?
42:40 <Halcyon> I actually should just order a larger SSD if I'm going to format this machine
42:43 <Ampera> Yeah it is, MATE is a conservative fork of Gnome 2 to keep the same codebase and design updated
42:51 <Halcyon> 512GB and 1TB SSDs are fairly cheap now
43:16 <IoTPanic> MATE and gnome 2 are very different from a usability perspective 
43:20 <Ampera> It's the exact same user interface, and is largely compatible.
43:25 <Ampera> In what way?
43:26 <IoTPanic> And productivity
43:28 <Ampera> How?
43:35 <Ampera> They are nearly identical.
43:48 <Ampera> MATE is just an updated Gnome 2, it's the exact same codebase.
44:33 <IoTPanic> I dont know how you think they're identical. Mate is like cinnamon usability wise.
44:38 <Halcyon> Maybe I'll install it on my old desktop as a test
44:40 <Ampera> I think they ended up porting MATE to GTK3, instead of Gnome 2's GTK2, but that's really similar.
44:46 <Halcyon> Or in a VM
44:54 <IoTPanic> Use a VM
44:58 <Ampera> What? Do you know what you're talking about?
45:05 <Halcyon> I could just throw it on my ESXi box for the moment
45:15 <Ampera> Gnome 2 is the previous version of GNOME, before they switched to their god awful current interface.
45:23 <IoTPanic> There you go.
45:33 <Ampera> When support for that was dropped, MATE came in to keep that alive.
46:22 <IoTPanic> Lmao, I remember MATE and gnome in linux mint YEARS ago, they are very diffrent
47:02 <Halcyon> Stupid slow internet. 3MB/sec :(
47:04 <IoTPanic> Still are last I checked on Ubuntu mate
47:05 <Ampera> That's because Linux Mint uses GNOME 3
47:17 <Ampera> in fact I don't even think Linux Mint ever had GNOME 2
47:33 <IoTPanic> Now they do, you know Linux mint was around before you knew the word linux right?
48:03 <Ampera> 2006, for whatever reason I thought it was newer
48:10 <IoTPanic> Nope
49:08 <IoTPanic> I do not like "What? Do you know what you're talking about?"
49:11 <Ampera> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/MATE_1.10.png
49:15 <Halcyon> I feel like a chicken pie for some reason
49:20 <Ampera> https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.32/figures/gnome-2-32.png.en_GB
49:32 <Ampera> GNOME 2 and MATE side by side, they are identical in use and design.
49:32 <Halcyon> IoTPanic: That's Ampera :)
49:49 <Halcyon> He has a good heart, he is just a little spergy :P
49:51 <Ampera> MATE was a fork, done after the GNOME project completely changed their design.
50:01 <IoTPanic> Typical 16 year old
50:05 <Ampera> fuck you
50:15 <IoTPanic> Thats illigal
50:28 <Halcyon> Only if you're in a position of authority
50:35 <Halcyon> Age of consent in AU is 16
50:51 <Ampera> IoTPanic, look at those two screenshots, MATE is GNOME 2
50:56 <IoTPanic> You are getting very worked up about this. I made a valid observation, idgaf about the base code
51:10 <Ampera> It's not valid in the slightest, they operate nearly identically.
51:20 <Halcyon> Boys, play nice
51:59 <IoTPanic> I apologize, I meant gnome 3. And also, mate just played better on older CPUs so I did prefer MATE over gnome
52:13 <Ampera> thank you, that's exactly what I was going on about
52:35 <Ampera> sorry I went on, I'm really tired and really stressed about the government trying to cuck me out of thousands of bucks.
52:36 <IoTPanic> Fine, you could have handled it better
52:43 <Halcyon> That's it, I'm going to go buy ingredients to make pies
52:52 <Ampera> what sort of pies
52:57 <Halcyon> Chicken
52:59 <Halcyon> Maybe chicken and leek
53:09 <Ampera> you put fruit in pies, not meat
53:15 <IoTPanic> omg
53:19 <Halcyon> Fruit doesn't belong in pies
53:19 <IoTPanic> Im laughing
53:20 <Halcyon> Get out
53:29 <IoTPanic> Such a culturfuck
53:31 <Ampera> what the hell sort of pie has meat?
53:36 <Halcyon> Meat pies?
53:38 <Ampera> that's like sticking pizza in a blender and squirting it up your ass
53:42 <Halcyon> WHAT?!
53:54 <Halcyon> You go to ANY bakery here and most pies are savoury
54:00 <Halcyon> They even have dedicated pie shops
54:02 <Ampera> that's like serving a nice guacamole with a side of concrete chips.
54:07 <Halcyon> No, you're wrong.
54:19 <Halcyon> https://www.taste.com.au/recipes/ultimate-chicken-pie/14b17e2e-3368-4a00-bb29-97e8bb02cc31
54:34 <IoTPanic> I love a good meat pie or apple pie or whatever
54:41 <Halcyon> Apple pie is delicious
54:43 <IoTPanic> Fuck it, pie is good
54:49 <Ampera> Meat pie is a stupid concept, it's like eating cereal with root beer
54:56 <Halcyon> Oh Ampera
54:59 <IoTPanic> Have you ever tried it?
55:01 <Ampera> it's like steak and ice cream
55:07 <IoTPanic> Not at all child
55:09 <Ampera> soup and cake
55:10 <Halcyon> When you come here, I will feed you the most amazing pie
55:13 <IoTPanic> Its a meal, not a dessert
55:23 <IoTPanic> Its not what youre thinking of
55:28 <Halcyon> Meat pies aren't sweet, they usually use puff pastry
55:33 <IoTPanic> Its not supposed to be sweet, its going to be savory
55:33 <Halcyon> Not shortcrust coated in sugar
55:34 <coppice> I'd quite like a radian of pie right now
56:00 <Ampera> meat pie is like putting butter on a toast sandwich
56:01 <Halcyon> Are you honestly saying meat pies aren't a thing in the US?
56:06 <IoTPanic> It totally is
56:10 <Ampera> no, meat pies are illegal here
56:10 <IoTPanic> Where I am anyway
56:15 <Halcyon> OK so Ampera is just retarded
56:16 <Ampera> you can't sell them anywhere in the US
56:29 <Ampera> excuse me
56:33 <Halcyon> You heard me
56:33 <Ampera> you're being berry rude.
56:39 <IoTPanic> Its not as popular as everywhere else though.
56:43 <IoTPanic> Which is weird
56:48 <IoTPanic> Americans love their meat
56:53 <Ampera> of course I know meat pies exist
56:56 <Halcyon> I would have thought you guys would have been all over meat wrapped in pastry
57:00 <Halcyon> What about sausage rolls?
57:08 <IoTPanic> Eh
57:09 <Ampera> chicken pot pie (sometimes called chinese pot pie here) is fairly popular
57:14 <IoTPanic> Yes
57:20 <Halcyon> I suspect chicken pot pie is the same thing
57:26 <damian> hgehaha
57:27 <Ampera> however they aren't as popular as sweet pies
57:32 <Ampera> meat pie isn't that much of a thing here
57:32 <IoTPanic> Chicken pot pie is very popular
57:37 <damian> fruit mince pies at christmas!
57:53 <Halcyon> OK, I'm basically making chicken pot pies, but instead of a pot, it's pastry
57:54 <Ampera> they exist, but they aren't massively popular.
57:58 <IoTPanic> Mince meat pies at my fathers, thats kinda it thought now I think of it
58:03 <Ampera> that's exactly what a pot pie is
58:06 <Halcyon> So you don't need a knife and fork to eat it
58:21 <IoTPanic> I mean
58:28 <damian> can you send me one please
58:30 <IoTPanic> Theyre usually big from what Ive eaten
58:35 <Ampera> but y'all get led on exactly as much as I do
58:37 <Halcyon> There is a place near me that does Kangaroo pies, they are fucking amazing.
58:41 <Ampera> no room to make fun of me ya spergs
58:43 <IoTPanic> https://images-gmi-pmc.edge-generalmills.com/dc6d7f7a-1dc1-49c2-8d3e-16758204849a.jpg
58:56 <Halcyon> Yeh we call those "family size" pies
59:02 <damian> i cant stand kangaroo
59:03 <Halcyon> But individual ones are much more common
59:06 <IoTPanic> Aw, poor kangaroos
59:16 <Ampera> never had kangaroo
59:18 <damian> i grew up near the flinders rangers, so during school we'd have aboriginal awareness month/week/day etc.
59:32 <Halcyon> Kangaroo meat is delicious but can't be over cooked or it goes tough
59:37 <damian> i never liked any kind of meat growing up, and they would force us to eat kangaroo, witchedy grubs etc.
59:41 <IoTPanic> Neither have I, I would try it honestly
59:47 <Halcyon> Done properly it pulls apart nicely
59:47 <IoTPanic> I like deer, must be similar
59:49 <damian> turned me right off kangaroo all together
59:51 <Ampera> the strangest meat I've ever had was deep fried teletubby
59:52 <IoTPanic> 😂
00:07 <Halcyon> :P
00:17 <damian> kangaroo is apparently really rich Ampera, a lot of people love it. if you're a gym junkie/bulking it's apparently really good too
00:19 <Ampera> is that an emoji?
00:20 <Halcyon> damian: I guess I can understand your dislike
00:26 <IoTPanic> Yes
00:26 <coppice> Ampera: when eating teletubby watch out for the po
00:31 <Ampera> get out of my yard
00:34 <Ampera> take the door
00:34 <Halcyon> Kangaroo is very low in fat and high in protein
00:44 <IoTPanic> Alt+F4 Eye eye sie
00:47 <IoTPanic> sir*
01:20 <Halcyon> Anyway it's 1300 here, need to go to the shops and get pie making things
01:31 <IoTPanic> Alright
01:34 <Halcyon> Back soon
01:43 <coppice> an oven? A food mixer?
01:54 <Halcyon> Ingredients :)
02:12 <IoTPanic> A bag of weed to eat it
02:29 <Ampera> 💯💯💯
03:00 <damian> https://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/301/5/9/i_thought_i_saw_a_2_by_mightyfilm-d4e7ao2.jpg
03:27 <IoTPanic> Bender!
03:37 <Ampera> I'm gonna sleep now
03:43 <Halcyon> Night Ampera
03:48 * Ampera pours boiling hot soup on Halcyon's lap
03:50 <Ampera> good night
10:36 Join: FoxBatt ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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17:19 Quit: Annakin4 ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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17:42 <IoTPanic> Wow, hexchat did not like that\
38:25 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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54:17 <Halcyon> Pies are in the oven :D
01:05 <Tezzers> Pizza or dessert?
01:23 <Halcyon> Chicken pies
02:41 * Tezzers ticks the neither box
14:27 <Halcyon> https://www.taste.com.au/recipes/ultimate-chicken-pie/14b17e2e-3368-4a00-bb29-97e8bb02cc31
14:36 <Halcyon> I add some peas, leek and chilli flakes to the recipe though
19:26 <Ampera> 7
19:32 <Halcyon> 7 ?
19:37 <Ampera> 0
19:59 <Halcyon> Potato
20:00 <Ampera> ABCAC-DAC
21:01 <Ampera> triangular texture mapping
21:17 <Halcyon> You didn't sleep long
21:53 <Ampera> no, I was awoken by a minou.
22:08 <Halcyon> *meow*
22:13 <Halcyon> Stupid cat
23:25 <Ampera> that's not nice
23:28 <Ampera> you're stupid
23:36 <Halcyon> Not my fault you have a cat
23:49 <Ampera> I have two
23:52 <Ampera> and I love them
24:08 <Ampera> a concept you will never understand :P
24:23 <Halcyon> :P
46:01 <Ampera> https://tcrf.net/images/a/a5/Pokemon_Yellow-Pikachu_Cry_22.ogg Halcyon
46:06 <Ampera> (don't use loud volume)
46:22 <Halcyon> I'm watching Mike Jeavons
46:33 <Ampera> listen to weird noises I've found on tcrf
46:38 <Ampera> i demand it
46:55 <Halcyon> You are a strange person
47:16 <Ampera> it's the source and result of my depression
49:14 <Halcyon> Chicken pie turned out awesome
49:23 <Halcyon> Although next time I'd use thighs instead of breast
51:57 <Halcyon> Why are the Royals still over the news? \
52:08 <Halcyon> Honestly who gives a crap about their disfunctional family
53:11 <Ampera> I thought you didn't watch baseball, Halcyon
53:25 <Halcyon> Baseball ?
53:38 <Ampera> Baseball
53:57 <Halcyon> I don't. I didn't even know it was on TV
54:08 <Halcyon> Actually it probably isn't here unless you have cable/satellite
54:19 <Ampera> Baseball have been televised for decades.
54:23 <Ampera> *has
54:45 <Ampera> probably since the 40's
55:56 <Ampera> but you were talking about the Royals.
56:48 <Halcyon> Sure in America
56:55 <Halcyon> Here, sports fans are a bunch of bogans
57:05 <Halcyon> It's all Football (the bogan type) and Cricket
57:14 <Ampera> cricket is gay baseball
57:26 <Halcyon> Yep and Football is gay Soccer
57:34 <Halcyon> The bogans love it
58:00 <Ampera> wait, American style football?
58:21 <Halcyon> I think Football is for those who weren't smart enough how to manoeuvre a round ball with their feet
58:28 <Halcyon> Aussie Football
58:34 <Ampera> what's that
58:55 <Halcyon> A bunch of dopey fuckwits running around with an egg-shaped ball?
59:06 <Ampera> So rugby?
59:12 * steve30 ponders a coffee
59:25 <Halcyon> Sure
59:34 <Ampera> steve30, of what significance does the 30 at the end of your name give?
59:34 * Halcyon knows nothing about sports... apart from it being shit
59:44 <Halcyon> I'm guessing his age Ampera?
59:46 <Ampera> I like watching Soccer, Baseball, and Hockey
00:04 <Ampera> I'd imagine he's had that username for more than a year.
00:08 <Ampera> Age isn't static
00:12 <Halcyon> Gays are fussy about age
00:16 <steve30> Halcyon, what happens next month when its my birthday?
00:31 <Ampera> when is your birthday, steve30?
00:38 <Ampera> mine is also next month
01:09 <Halcyon> I guess increment by one?
01:58 <Ampera> maybe it's because he was born in 1930
02:01 <steve30> 5th january
02:10 <Halcyon> Oh shit, I forgot it's almost 2019
02:12 <Ampera> Mine is 21st of January
02:41 <steve30> I've been using the nick steve30 since I was about 13 or so, so by that logic I'd be steve45 by now
03:21 <Ampera> Maybe steve30 was born in 2030 and has come back from the future
06:40 <Halcyon> So going back to Ampera's question then... why Steve30 ?
06:58 <Ampera> because
07:31 <steve30> Ampera, The first IRC network I went on was Scout Link, back when I was 12 or 13. I wasn't really sure what to use as a nickname, so the 30 came from the fact that I was in the 30th Rotherham Scouts.
07:56 <Halcyon> Oh I like that
07:58 <Halcyon> Nice story :)
08:06 <Ampera> better than some of my early internet nicks, which were based off radio stations
08:26 <Ampera> I used to listen to the radio a /lot/ when I was younger.
08:33 <Ampera> Every night, even while I was sleeping.
08:43 <Halcyon> 34 degrees outside
08:53 <Halcyon> I listen to talk-back radio these days
08:57 <Halcyon> Commerical radio is shit
10:38 <Ampera> what is talk-back radio?
10:42 <Ampera> radio that you can talk back to?
10:51 <Halcyon> Well yeh you can call up and discuss issues
10:57 <Halcyon> They put you on the air
11:17 <Halcyon> https://www.2gb.com
11:25 <Halcyon> Although it's shit at the moment because of the weekend
11:32 <Halcyon> All the good content is on during the week
11:43 <Ampera> you can do that on regular radio too
11:54 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:57 <Ampera> the Delilah show here in the US specializes in that.
12:08 <Halcyon> Yeh but talk-back is less fart noises and "celebrity goss" and more political discussion
12:23 <steve30> Here's a clip of me getting my birthday announced on the radio :)
12:23 <steve30> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VutUNpwGpCo
13:09 <Halcyon> Hahaha I love the music
13:11 <Halcyon> So fitting
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14:32 <Halcyon> Why is there a toothbrush in the cup?
14:48 <Ampera> that's neat, steve30
15:10 <Halcyon> So what DID you get up to that day?
16:01 <Halcyon> You're so handsome Steve :)
16:40 <steve30> I use toothbrushes for cleaning
16:49 <steve30> I can't remember what I did that day
17:48 <steve30> I did spend my 18th birthday in the library though
18:17 <Halcyon> :)
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29:24 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mERTLBl3LG4
30:37 <Halcyon> I love this show
46:48 <steve30> I watched a load of computer chronicles episodes about 10 years ago
49:31 <damian> what is THAT
50:36 Join: Flappy ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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56:34 Quit: Elvis ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
08:14 <Halcyon> Thinking of buying a laptop
24:26 <Ampera> What's your budget, and what are your requirements?
24:59 <Halcyon> I don't really *NEED* one, but been thinking about a desktop replacement. Considering a ThinkPad T580 or similar
25:00 <Ampera> Intended use might help too, Halcyon
25:14 <Ampera> Let me give you some very very very good advice.
25:22 <Halcyon> Mmmm >
25:22 <Ampera> Never replace a desktop with a portable
25:22 <Halcyon> ?
25:26 <Ampera> Evert
25:27 <Halcyon> Why ?
25:39 <Ampera> Because it was one of the worst periods of computing I ever had in my life.
25:44 <Halcyon> OK... but why?
25:59 <Ampera> Laptops are slow, hot, small, have shitty keyboards, are more expensive, have shorter upgrade lives
26:19 <Halcyon> If I was using as a desktop replacement, I'd buy a docking station to go with it
26:26 <Ampera> They don't do as much as well as a desktop, and will end up costing more to do the same thing. I prefer to keep my mobile and home devices separate.
26:26 <Halcyon> So all external peripherals
26:54 <Ampera> That is true, but you still have the issue of being slower and hotter than normal desktops
26:59 <Halcyon> I don't do anything super processor or GPU intensive either. So even a high-end i5 would do fine
27:04 <Ampera> you also can't upgrade them as much.
27:26 <Ampera> Then my suggestion would actually be to get something like my Surface Pro 3, not as a desktop replacement, but as a mobile supplement.
27:31 <Halcyon> In fact the T580 with the UHD display is capable of more than my desktop is currently
27:36 <Halcyon> I hate tablets
27:42 <Ampera> What's wrong with them?
27:46 <Halcyon> I just don't like them
27:51 <Halcyon> I want a keyboard and mouse
27:55 <Ampera> The Surface Pro 3 works exactly like a laptop
27:56 <Halcyon> And high res monitor
28:01 <Ampera> you get that too
28:11 <Ampera> 2160x1440, really nice keyboard and a trackpad
28:14 <Halcyon> I also don't want to use Windows 10
28:15 <Ampera> USB for an attachable mouse
28:21 <Ampera> This has full Linux support.
28:32 <Ampera> I just dropped it because the wlan was slightly iffy, but it was perfectly usable.
28:33 <Halcyon> Why aren't you using Linux then?
28:42 <Ampera> Also pen support wasn't amazing
28:43 <Halcyon> Yeh see that would be a deal breaker for me
28:52 <Ampera> external dongle.
29:06 <Halcyon> Why on earth would I buy an external WLAN dongle when it has Wi-Fi built in?
29:13 <Ampera> lol
29:31 <Ampera> It could have also been my own wlan, I need to increase the channel width on the 5ghz up to 80mhz
29:33 <Halcyon> This also has an LTE modem
29:56 <Halcyon> I think for $2500, I could get a pretty nice laptop
29:59 <Ampera> They do actually have a Surface Pro with an LTE modem.
30:07 <Ampera> 2500 bucks? Get a Surface Book 2 then.
30:16 * Halcyon googles specs
30:47 <Halcyon> WOW! No
30:59 <Halcyon> For a similar spec'd Surface Book 2, it would cost me $4249
31:10 <Ampera> alright
31:15 <Ampera> was just an idea
31:22 <Halcyon> Holy fuck that's expensive
31:26 <Ampera> but my original statement still stands, get something cheaper and put more into your desktop.
31:29 <Halcyon> That's like Apple territory
31:41 <Halcyon> My desktop is an old server that was getting tossed in the bin
31:45 <Ampera> Yeah, they go pretty high for that stuff.
31:51 <Ampera> What do you even do on computers anyways?
32:02 <Halcyon> Web browsing, office applications, IRC.
32:05 <Halcyon> Pretty much that's it
32:11 <Ampera> get a chromebook for that :P
32:15 <Halcyon> Ew no
32:20 <Ampera> why spend 2.5k on a laptop for web browsing
34:26 <Halcyon> *shrug*
34:28 <Halcyon> I like new things
34:29 <Ampera> maybe a laptop replacement might not be too bad of an idea then, if you have practically no performance requirements, but for what you want you could literally use anything on the market.
34:47 <Halcyon> Yes but I want something decent quality, which is why I'm looking at the Lenovo's
35:23 <Ampera> I think you'd like the Surface Pro 3 if you could find a nice one, I think the wlan is actually fine, it might have just been my implementation. If you really really want I can try to use it again at home
36:17 <Halcyon> Doesn't have a large enough hard disk
36:20 <Ampera> Also, other Surface Pros might have better Linux support, could potentially look into that. Or even go with a similar concept.
36:21 <Halcyon> And RAM is lacking
36:32 <Ampera> I have a 256GB SSD, going up to 512GB, and 8GB of RAM
36:41 <Ampera> why do you need more of that to do web browsing and IRC?
36:44 <Halcyon> Yeh that would be the bare minimum
36:50 <Halcyon> I run VMs too
37:00 <Ampera> then use your ESXi box
37:02 <Halcyon> Those don't use a lot of CPU resources but need storage
37:04 <Ampera> or don't get a damned laptop
37:08 <Halcyon> ESXi is no good when I'm not home
37:10 <Ampera> use SD cards.
37:30 <Ampera> case full of 256GB microSD cards, just swap them out.
38:07 <Halcyon> You're a case full
38:16 <Ampera> There are also other surface-like devices that could have better Linux support.
38:28 <Ampera> Lenovo even makes convertibles.
38:50 <Ampera> I like the tablet because it's great for media usage laying in bed or eating food.
38:58 <Halcyon> I just don't like the tablet form factor
39:07 <Halcyon> I'm essentially paying more for a smaller battery and touch screen
39:24 <Ampera> this tablet cost 425 USD
40:29 <Ampera> I still don't like laptops at all, I've had bad experiences with them, and the same argument can be made with a laptop.
40:50 <Ampera> You're paying more for less performance, storage, and expansion options.
40:50 <Halcyon> See I don't mind laptops
40:59 <Halcyon> When I'm at home, I plonk it into a dock and it's a desktop
41:27 <Ampera> I don't usually need high performance computing when I'm not at home, so to be honest, I could use a 10 year old laptop with Linux on it, and it would fill any requirement I need for a laptop device.
41:55 <Ampera> to be honest, I could probably fill any requirement I need for a laptop device with a 486 laptop.
42:50 <Ampera> anyways, idk if you find me playing devil's advocate at all useful.
42:56 <Ampera> I enjoy doing that at least.
43:15 <Halcyon> I always appreciate feedback
43:21 <Ampera> Actually here's an idea, look into one of those laptops with multiple screens. That would be actually a device I could see myself enjoying.
43:33 <Ampera> Maybe even like a briefcase portable with those, if they still have them.
43:34 <Halcyon> It's just a tablet is not something I would use. My phone does everything a tablet does
43:49 <Ampera> I hate phones, my tablet does everything a phone does, but with a much much nicer screen and more performance.
44:05 <Ampera> I've been using tablets for probably around 6 years or so.
44:18 <Halcyon> I tried, never really got into them
45:14 <Ampera> I actually especially like the Surface Pro 3, yes it has Windows 10, but I can deal with it, or even use Windows Server 2016 if I need to, or linux if I am particularly pissed at Windows (it's very very usable on Windows, and wlan isn't that bad), but it does literally anything.
45:48 <Ampera> It can be used for multimedia in any situation, for laptop work with an excellent keyboard for its size, and even for light gaming.
46:05 <Ampera> It can play Half-Life 2 at acceptable settings, which is enough for me.
46:29 <Ampera> *usable on Windows > usable on Linux
57:28 <Ampera> I'm actually getting quite used to this keyboard. I'm starting to be able to type really fast on it.
57:39 <Ampera> Close to, if not at my 100/120 WPM limit on my MX Greens.
58:00 <Halcyon> \o/
32:40 <Halcyon> Americans are fucking weird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J0s10G0jk
42:39 <Ampera> Halcyon, that's a Canadian store.
26:59 Join: rdson ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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29:44 Quit: rdson ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
57:51 <steve30> Halcyon, thinkpads ftw
37:08 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
01:03 Join: ghillie ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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