// #eevblog — 2018-12-02
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00:00:06 <Chipguy> wow i went afk for a while and then ..boom, full chat ;)
00:00:10 <Chipguy> i like that
00:01:21 <xDR1TeK> you missed on alot
00:01:25 <xDR1TeK> earthquakes
00:02:03 <T3sl4> and wine
00:30:02 <xDR1TeK> w8 a sec
00:30:22 <xDR1TeK> this channel is a relay for Dave's twitter posts
00:31:09 <T3sl4> ??
00:32:53 <xDR1TeK> one can only hope i guess
00:33:10 <xDR1TeK> alright folks, back to my IT crap
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03:16:10 <Arez> Hi got question regarding DS1054z, is it normal that it renders waveform after it reaches center of grid? Its hard to explain, when you change acquire mode to any then it shows signal after it reaches center of grid. I got feeling like its not real time drawing
03:22:56 <Arez> Ok, nevermind. That was horizontal knob
03:40:02 <DHess_US> DSOs usually only update the display once the trigger point is reached. Some rare DSOs will "scan" and "roll" up to the trigger point before the trigger occurs.
03:42:16 <DHess_US> <T3sl4> the same appeal of analog scopes, buttons everywhere just within reach
03:42:40 <DHess_US> Nothing precludes that on a DSO except marketters, bean counters, and poor human factors engineering.
03:42:57 <T3sl4> right, you want trigger menu, AUTO
03:43:05 <T3sl4> NORM trigger only updates when trig's
03:43:24 <DHess_US> I think HP started it back in the late 1980s with their "one rotary encoder" to rule them all. It was dumb then and it is dumb now.
03:43:35 <T3sl4> hey!
03:43:43 <DHess_US> <T3sl4> NORM trigger only updates when trig's
03:43:45 * T3sl4 hugs his HP 8590A
03:43:47 <DHess_US> No!
03:44:04 <DHess_US> Nothing precludes scan and roll on normal triggering.
03:44:17 <T3sl4> stupid scopes have roll
03:44:34 <DHess_US> But better scopes have scan and roll.
03:45:10 <DHess_US> Like I said, in roll mode if selected, they *scan* to the trigger point, then roll until the trigger occurs.
03:45:47 <T3sl4> newer ones with wide or big screens have been using that extra space for live display, yes
03:45:57 <DHess_US> If roll mode isn't selected, they do the same thing but stop rolling after the memory is filled.
03:46:35 <DHess_US> So you don't end up with a very slow timebase waiting to actually see if your positioning wasn't correct. You can fix it before wasting time.
03:47:47 <DHess_US> Yea, and using touch screens to make up for the lack of space for physical controls. I am unwilling to deal with the compromise of touch screens which reflect glare.
03:47:55 <coppice> yeah, a slow timebase always makes you want the scope to rock and roll
03:48:11 <T3sl4> HP54600 did it correctly: memory fills in in real time, no rolling or sliding
03:48:23 <T3sl4> the contemporary teks... ugh
03:48:50 <DHess_US> I don't know what the contemporary Teks do. The old ones act as I describe so you never have to wait to see something.
03:49:30 <DHess_US> 1 day/division? No problem. And with triggering.
03:49:43 <DHess_US> Want peak detection with that? Fine.
03:50:40 <DHess_US> I'm not sure a modern DSO could do that without crashing before reaching the trigger point.
03:51:50 <DHess_US> As far as DSO touch screens, I laugh everytime Dave does a video and his camera autofocuses on the reflection in the scope screen.
03:52:16 <coppice> but, shiny
03:53:25 <DHess_US> I get the feeling that a lot of new scopes with poor interfaces like the Tek DSO5000 series are intended for ATE applicaitons where nobody is actually using the controls.
03:53:56 <DHess_US> They really stress the networking capabilities when trying to sell them to you.
03:54:20 <coppice> I think most of them are developed by people with the mentality of a test equipment designer
03:55:08 <DHess_US> I noticed Rigol's recent additions continue the trend of flashy but confusing front panels.
03:55:52 <DHess_US> Old Tektronix front panels look like a display diagram for a factory showing how everything interconnets.
03:56:10 <T3sl4> the classic toob ones yeah
03:56:33 <DHess_US> No, through their early DSOs before the "One Knob to Rule Them All" stuff started.
03:58:50 <DHess_US> Here is what I want to know. Why are all small rotary encoders mechanical instead of optical?
03:59:31 <DHess_US> Periodcially I do a search for encoders for controls and everything is mechanical.
04:00:07 <T3sl4> i designed in an optical one some years ago, but maybe that wasn't "small"
04:01:39 <T3sl4> i remember switchcraft having problems with lead time and/or availability though
04:04:23 <coppice> optical rotary encoders are available, but pricy compared to mechanical. price seems to win
04:05:13 <T3sl4> indeed, they weren't cheap either
04:08:28 <DHess_US> The ones I have seen aren't intended for the same applications as the mechanical ones.
04:09:01 <coppice> of course not. mechanical for low cost applications. optical for high rel
04:09:05 <DHess_US> Even if they were several times more expensive than the mechanical ones, they would be a deal. The only ones I have seen in instruments were custom.
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04:30:29 <Ampera> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/310478241989263371/518478670088765450/IMG_20181201_122843.jpg?width=797&height=449
04:30:33 <Ampera> french fry time
04:32:09 <coppice> chinese fry time has to wait another 30min, while the rice steams
04:54:45 <T3sl4> woot
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05:26:46 <DHess_US> Ampera, how are you going to cook the fries?
05:29:02 <DHess_US> I'm on my 4th and last day of leftover spahgetti sauce.
05:35:30 <DHess_US> It took me a couple months to master hash browns in a cast iron frying pan but I am never patient enough to squeeze the water out of the potatoes so they never come out quite right.
05:40:42 Join: merlin077 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:59:00 <Ampera> DHess_US, fry vat
05:59:16 <Ampera> my fries came out perfect after a parboil
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06:52:04 <printForever> Hello from Serbia! :)
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06:58:52 <Ampera> hi printForever
07:00:55 <printForever> I've been following EEVBlog for about 4 years now. I'm not a hardware guy (like Dave or many here). I'm a developer and I can fix a PC/Mac when I need to if it does not require soldering something to something else.
07:01:30 <printForever> My favorite video is the one with an old Mac. I would love to see Dave more Apple stuff.
07:03:45 <Ampera> Yeah, my primary skills reside in CS, but I aspire to do EE in the future
07:03:59 <Ampera> I've actually picked up a lot from being in here and watching eevblog.
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09:00:01 <Halcyon> Morning all
09:00:14 <Ampera> wrong
09:00:15 <Ampera> it's 5
09:00:20 <Halcyon> :P
09:00:35 <Halcyon> Need coffee
09:00:42 <Ampera> I have a 7 hour trip to go 120 miles tomorrow
09:00:57 <Halcyon> Going to see your Grandfather?
09:01:03 <Ampera> aye
09:01:24 <Halcyon> Bah, 190 KM is nothing. I travel that far to and from work everyday.
09:01:32 <Halcyon> How is it taking you 7 hours?
09:01:49 <Ampera> train, hour and 45 minute layover, and then bus
09:02:19 <Ampera> although that 120 miles figure might be the linear distance, it's likely a bit more for the path I take.
09:02:44 <steve30> hi
09:02:53 <Ampera> nope, around 120 miles
09:02:54 <Ampera> hi steve
09:03:12 <Ampera> point to point distance is about 90 miles
09:04:50 <Halcyon> Wow, that's terrible
09:05:02 <Ampera> it's also cheap
09:05:14 <Halcyon> Then again, for my 190KM round trip to/from work, it's probably about 2.5 hours
09:05:17 <Ampera> train tickets were 15 bucks, and bus tickets were 10
09:05:17 <Halcyon> But I drive
09:05:23 <Ampera> each way
09:05:47 <steve30> We went on two * 50 mile journeys today which could have been done in 2* 40 miles
09:08:48 <byteturtle> oh boy
09:08:56 <byteturtle> why is IIS such a giant pile of poo
09:09:02 <Halcyon> Hahaha
09:09:07 <Halcyon> What are you trying to do byteturtle ?
09:09:17 <byteturtle> i set up an exchange server for fun
09:09:27 <Halcyon> :)
09:09:35 <Halcyon> I haven't done that for about 10 years
09:09:41 <steve30> hmm, according to google, the 50 mile route is 2 minutes quicker than my 40 mile route
09:10:03 <Halcyon> Different speed limits I'm guessing Steve ?
09:10:10 <byteturtle> well normally other people install them and i only have to interface user<->server
09:10:58 <Halcyon> Mmmm coffeeeee
09:13:23 <steve30> yeah
09:13:39 <steve30> i'd like a coffee but i should probably go to sleep
09:13:52 <Ampera> I made 8 pounds worth of potato fries today
09:14:12 <Ampera> 3.6kg
09:14:27 <Halcyon> That's a lot of chips
09:14:33 <Ampera> aye
09:15:45 <Halcyon> Did you eat them all?
09:15:52 <Ampera> no
09:21:51 <coppice> 3.6kg of chips suggest some things have been very roughly handled
09:23:43 <Halcyon> Ampera's a bit special
09:28:33 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KliWHCzE16c
09:28:37 <Halcyon> Heh neat
09:31:04 <coppice> that would be awful
09:31:08 <Halcyon> Yep
09:31:25 <Halcyon> I guess you would also need to start at a specific point too
09:31:36 <Halcyon> It would be near useless to get from where you are to where you want to be
09:32:15 <coppice> yeah, but one slip and you'd be completely lost. no possibility of recovery, and you need to recover frequently with modern GPS navigators
09:32:36 <Halcyon> I guess that depends on the city and the driver
09:32:54 <Halcyon> Although I generally find even with modern GPS, I know a better route
09:34:09 <coppice> Google still produces some bizarre routes which go round in a loop for several km, back the original junction you were at some time ago
09:37:04 <Halcyon> *nod*
09:37:44 <Halcyon> There is one particular place in Sydney where Google tells you to get off the freeway, but then get back on it again from the same junction
09:37:47 <Halcyon> No idea why
09:38:12 <coppice> I had a route like that just a few days ago, where the original junction is a big roundabout. the right course of action was to take the exit after the one Google said
09:39:36 <coppice> Halcyon: I've had something like that, where I following their route off the highway, and found they had the right idea. Right over the junction there was a blockage, and using the slip roads got be around it
09:39:44 <Halcyon> From memory it's here: https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8417195,151.2114176,280m/data=!3m1!1e3
09:39:55 <Halcyon> It tells you to get off the M1 onto Alfred street, then back on the M1
09:44:41 <Ampera> currently trying to repair a walkman
09:45:48 <Ampera> time for a multimeter
09:46:06 <Halcyon> You were just saying yesterday you rarely use one :) Now you need one.
09:46:36 <Ampera> this is a rare time I need one
09:46:47 <Ampera> I don't exactly repair walkmans every day
09:47:03 Quit: printForever ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:47:11 <Ampera> however this meter has a busted segment
09:58:42 <Ampera> I presume DC motors aren't supposed to be shorted across
10:08:44 <damian> mehh
10:08:56 <damian> woken up on a sunday morning because stores can't get email isn't a good thing
10:35:06 <Halcyon> :(
10:35:16 <Halcyon> Did they try turning it off and on again?
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10:39:24 <Ampera> rip walkman
10:42:01 <damian> haha, the two that called did.. our stupid internet explorer at stores don't auto close windows, so we can tell when they've just closed IE and tried again
10:42:08 <damian> but our ADFS is broken
10:44:01 <DHess_US> Ampera, I've seen new brushed DC motors come with a wire short across the terminals but I have no idea why.
10:44:23 <DHess_US> With analog meters it at least makes sense.
10:44:50 <Ampera> Nah, I thought for a moment and after my dad made me stop being stupid, realized that it's supposed to be short
10:44:52 <Ampera> because it's just a coil
10:45:47 <DHess_US> Oh, you mean you measured a short? It's just an inductor.
10:46:02 <DHess_US> The series resistnce can be quite high for high voltage motors though.
10:46:42 <DHess_US> Tape motors are special though. They often include a centripetal speed regulator inside.
10:49:10 Quit: Chipguy ([email protected]) EOF from client
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10:53:40 <byteturtle> this is just weird -.-
10:54:40 <byteturtle> e1000e standard driver, works from live cd (arch and debian) but as soon as you boot into the installed systme it's being loaded but no link
11:03:38 Join: inflex ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:03:41 <inflex> Ah, finally
11:05:03 <merlin077> byteturtle, try booting with parameter pcie_aspm=off
11:05:23 <inflex> Morning all, mostly Aussies in here, or a nice global mix?
11:05:31 <byteturtle> iomem=relaxed seems to work
11:05:50 <byteturtle> tried to use intels bootutil to fix/check the eeprom - and now magically theres a link
11:06:24 <merlin077> Well, it's Linux ;)
11:06:37 <byteturtle> i'll try pcie_aspm=off just to be sure
11:06:44 <merlin077> inflex, Germany here - just read it today on Twitter
11:07:26 <byteturtle> germany too
11:07:30 <inflex> aye, yes, just saw the IRC mention by Dave today on Twitter too @merlin077
11:08:08 <merlin077> how long had this channel existed?
11:08:18 <byteturtle> nope, pcie_aspm doesn't work
11:08:34 <merlin077> byteturtle, Virtual Machine?
11:08:49 <byteturtle> nope physicial
11:09:22 <byteturtle> "so that if a kernel driver has reserved a device memory region for use, it will become unavailable to /dev/mem also." - seems the driver doing some fancy stuff there
11:09:33 <merlin077> i recall having this on a hardware firewall appliance, fiddled around the whole day
11:09:40 <inflex> mm... linux kernel talk?
11:09:54 <merlin077> Well, it's Linux :D
11:12:19 <merlin077> just to have asked everywhere now: Has anyone access to WMF (the coffee machine company) configuration software?
11:14:17 <byteturtle> >iomem=relaxed doesn't work anymore
11:14:18 <byteturtle> wat
11:18:39 <ServalSpots> merlin077: This channel is new, but #eevblog at afternet.org has been around for a long time
11:19:24 <ServalSpots> (It's still around (and actually larger/more active), but it's not really been an official channel for a while. This is the one with Dave's blessing)
11:28:21 <inflex> does Dave participate in here at all? I'd imagine the chap doesn't have even a smidge of spare time, and thus highly unlikely
11:29:31 <byteturtle> compiled the current driver from source and now it works
11:34:22 Quit: Chipguy ([email protected]) Quit: Connection closed by foreign host
11:36:50 <ServalSpots> inflex: He was in here for a few minutes the other day as a test, and he might pop back in at some point. Historically he'd pop in for a few minutes ever 6-18mo or so
11:37:25 <merlin077> might have to setup an alerting IRC bot :>
11:37:47 <ServalSpots> hehe, might be the thing to do
11:37:59 <merlin077> byteturtle, great :)
11:46:10 <damian> ur a superstar byteturtle
11:46:14 <damian> i luv u
11:48:20 <Halcyon> *yawn*
12:06:51 <Ampera> shut up
12:23:44 <damian> oh man
12:24:03 <damian> i've been doing mirc script for 19 years and i only just found out you could open an ssl socket
12:24:04 <damian> crazy
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12:56:12 <Halcyon> *grin*
12:56:17 <Halcyon> Having fun there damian?
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20:38:32 <ThunderSqueak> o.o//
20:39:56 * Halcyon is full of pizza and wine
20:39:59 * Halcyon has been out
20:40:04 <ThunderSqueak> ah
20:40:16 * ThunderSqueak is full of clean water and just had a cookie :D
20:40:24 <Halcyon> :D
20:40:33 <ThunderSqueak> still gotta boil the water here
20:40:40 <Halcyon> Oh of course
20:41:13 <Halcyon> I wish I were there. I enjoy the challenge of making delicious food with bare essentials.
20:41:39 <ThunderSqueak> I made a burrito today :D
20:41:51 <ThunderSqueak> you know what I find hilarious?
20:41:52 <Halcyon> Chicken?
20:41:57 <Halcyon> Go on
20:41:59 <ThunderSqueak> bean and beef
20:42:16 <ThunderSqueak> oh... why do people raid stores AFTER a disaster for essentials
20:42:29 <Halcyon> I... don't... know?
20:42:38 <ThunderSqueak> like, aren't you supposed to prep BEFORE a disaster
20:42:53 <Halcyon> I guess a lot of people don't actually cook food from scratch ?
20:43:00 <ThunderSqueak> apparently
20:43:18 <ThunderSqueak> I try to have at least a months supply of food on hand for 2-3 people <.<
20:43:32 <Halcyon> It's like, give someone flour, water, tomato's and some cheese and/or ham and they would have no idea what to do.
20:43:56 * ThunderSqueak would make fresh bread, then make a lovely melt <.<
20:44:14 <ThunderSqueak> pizza is so last year <.<
20:44:15 <ThunderSqueak> ;)
20:44:46 <ThunderSqueak> but a sammich with ham and melted cheese and maybe some sliced tomato would be awesome :P
20:45:22 <ThunderSqueak> OR maybe make a flatbread and do a pita pocket
20:46:38 <ThunderSqueak> so, I liked this little mobile radio I setup as a base station so much, I just ordered one for my car
20:48:13 <Halcyon> Mmmm toasted sammich
20:48:28 <Halcyon> Best fewd ever
21:02:45 <T3sl4> mmm, tomato on toasted sandwich
21:02:50 <T3sl4> i should do that, i have those things
21:05:09 <ThunderSqueak> XD
21:05:21 <ThunderSqueak> Halcyon, so my idea is a good one? :P
21:20:52 <T3sl4> Ampera https://i.redd.it/aleuypieto121.png
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