// #eevblog — 2019-06-28
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00:02:22 <Nothing\> what i need is an MCU where the package and supporting circuitry can fit inside a pen, i got an idea the other day for a project where a pen has an LED inside, and when you click the thing, it'll extend the LED out where the pen would normally come out, and it would then blink in an amusing manner
00:06:30 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
00:09:23 <Nothing\> well nevermind that, the shitty avr port of arduino's ide doesn't have any option to add boards to it, even though every other version does
00:09:35 <Nothing\> the constant problems with this port are getting old
00:14:12 <K> Nothing\: you cant
00:14:21 <K> you need a programmer
00:15:12 <K> if nothing else, then something like this - https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP
00:18:07 <Nothing\> actually i do have an avrisp, that might work
00:18:42 <Nothing\> i originally got it cuz i thought i could use it to program my arduino in ASM but apparently not
00:19:21 <Nothing\> tbh i'm getting really disillusioned with arduino and am really tempted to just get an 8051/52 instead, i seem to feel a lot more comfortable programming those
00:20:58 <Nothing\> i can't for the life of me use any libraries in the ide that didn't already come with it, i'll add a library to the ide, it lists it among my other libraries, i'll add the header to the project with preprocessor statements, it shows a tab with the header file opened, but then when i go to compile it tells me the header file doesn't exist, well what on earth is opened in the other tab then? lol
00:21:06 <Nothing\> it's like trying to reason with a brain damaged child
00:21:21 <Nothing\> even the examples won't work
00:22:07 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:22:43 <Nothing\> so i've just resigned myself to the fact that i'm probably not gonna be able to use my arduino with any hardware until i get a windows computer, or at least something with an X86/64 in it
00:24:18 <Nothing\> i get way more fun and enjoyment using this 8051 simulator i have anyways, it has a ton of built-in hardware modules simulated, and one of the sexiest GUIs i've probably ever seen
00:24:22 <K> dunno about 8051
00:24:29 <K> arduino seems convenient
00:24:43 <Nothing\> not if you use an ARM computer, apparently lol
00:24:49 <K> hm
00:24:56 <K> maybe
00:25:18 <K> otoh i do know that avrdude works just fine on nvidias jetsons
00:25:22 <Nothing\> like using an lcd module on an 8051 is just as simple as outputting binary to the io ports
00:25:41 <Nothing\> where with arduino you've got all of these libraries and shit to deal with, IF they even work at all
00:25:43 <K> the same goes for atmel i would believe
00:25:48 <K> dont use arduino then
00:25:52 <K> just atmels sdk
00:26:06 <K> toolchain isn't that hard to figure out
00:26:16 <Nothing\> yeah that's the main thing i have a problem with is just the ide, maybe i could find an alternative actually
00:26:22 <Nothing\> i didn't even think i could use an alternative
00:26:31 <Nothing\> but i know they exist
00:27:14 <Nothing\> i'm not a fan of c/c++ anyways, i always felt the syntax was too i dunno, not arbitrary, but needlessly complicated
00:27:36 <Nothing\> i just like how straight to the point asm is, even though i know asm isn't exactly a practical solution for most things these days
00:28:51 <Nothing\> at least the varieties of asm i've used, which is 8051, 8086, and a bit of mips and 6052 dabbling
00:29:36 <Nothing\> i was really disappointed with the 6502 emulator though cuz it didn't support interrupts at all, so once i found that out i just got the sense that it was futile to go on and took up another project
00:31:20 <Nothing\> come to think of it, the 8051/52 supports c, doesn't it
00:32:27 <K> well, i'm using https://platformio.org/ for all my new avr and stm32 things
00:32:47 <K> makes managing toolchains and all that a little less tedious
00:33:06 <K> 8015 supports C? in what manner?
00:33:12 <Nothing\> somebody told me to look into stm32, but i dunno anything about them so i haven't really given it much more thought, even though that suggestion has been gnawing away at me
00:33:25 <K> i guess there is a compiler for C, but other than that
00:33:36 <Nothing\> i'm not sure exactly how it works, but i've seen code with C integrated into it
00:33:37 <K> stm32 has a little bit of learning curve to it
00:33:39 <Nothing\> lemme find you an example
00:33:59 <K> (compared to avr)
00:36:22 <Nothing\> here's a pretty simple example, just seems like standard c code, nothing fancy about it
00:36:24 <Nothing\> https://justpaste.it/4rgiv
00:37:18 <Nothing\> man that's a lot harder to read without highlighting from an ide
00:38:09 <K> looks like regular C to me
00:38:22 <Nothing\> that's what i figured, nothing special about it at all
00:38:32 <K> also a plus for avr is gcc has quite solid support for it
00:38:55 <Nothing\> that is nice
00:38:59 <K> do check out that platformio.org thing
00:39:13 <Nothing\> oh yeah, i'll make a point of that before i forget, thanks for reminding me
00:39:17 <Nothing\> it completely slipped my mind
00:40:05 <Nothing\> ooh i like the ide based on the screenshot theye have
00:40:27 <Nothing\> anyways i should go out and get some groceries, don't really want to but a man needs to eat
00:40:37 <Nothing\> take care, k was a pleasure chatting :D
00:42:01 <K> you are welcome
00:43:29 <DHess_US> Found all of my spare Ethernet cards, https://i.ibb.co/mXv3hrd/IMG-0357.jpg
01:00:14 <rust_collector> is that the north korean internet?
01:00:34 <rust_collector> I thought that ran on kims macbook
01:01:35 Join: Guest|42271 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:01:43 <Guest|42271> Hello
01:02:07 <Guest|42271> I'm Fred and nice to meet you here.
01:04:38 <DHess_US> My 20 year old FreeBSD router
01:05:15 <DHess_US> Swapped it out for a 17 year old router
01:07:05 <rust_collector> hey Fred
01:07:21 <rust_collector> I keep having issues with the bsds
01:08:18 <rust_collector> not because of bsd, just that I do not know enough about it
01:08:40 <rust_collector> sort of like arch.
01:09:01 <rust_collector> I can use it for a few days, then end up installing something else
01:09:03 <DHess_US> When I did the package updates last night on the new router, I thought I had killed it. It took 2 hours.
01:11:19 <rust_collector> talking about routers and stuff. I have to complain to my isp again. one or two more times, and they will send a new router. mine is from...uuh, it is old
01:12:48 <rust_collector> tops out at 80mbps, and lately, it has been pretty unstable, with speeds down to 1-2 from time to time, then back to 80-ish, but on average, it seems to be around 20
01:14:05 <rust_collector> anyway, the main thing is that the lowest package deal you get from them is 100, so it is annoying to just get 80, because of the hardware they sent
01:19:00 <DHess_US> I never trust the ISP's router for security. I always put my own router inside.
01:20:01 <rust_collector> so do I, but I still need the "first" router to work properly
01:28:20 <Guest|42271> How can I post my unique blog on eevblog?
01:30:39 Quit: Guest|42271 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
01:39:15 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:30:42 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
02:44:32 Quit: desu ([email protected]) Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in
02:51:58 Join: desu ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:13:42 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
03:37:31 Join: T3sl4 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:37:33 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o T3sl4
03:53:30 <DHess_US> Christ, my hair looks like Al Gore's hair. Time to get a haircut.
03:55:47 <rust_collector> either that, or get rid of al gore?
04:14:53 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:15:22 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
05:04:25 Quit: soulreap ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
05:04:44 Join: soulreap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:35:29 Quit: soulreap ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
05:35:34 Join: soulreap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:53:25 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:53:55 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:55:31 Nick: Ampera is now known as Ampera1
05:56:05 Nick: EEVBlog is now known as EEVBlog1
06:02:49 <rust_collector> oh no, how many Amperas do we need?
06:08:10 Nick: Ampera1 is now known as Ampera
06:08:16 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Changing hosts
06:08:16 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:08:18 <rust_collector> oh, that is better
06:08:37 <Ampera> Services went down due to power outage
06:08:39 <Ampera> restoring bot momentarily
06:10:05 Nick: EEVBlog1 is now known as EEVBlog
06:10:07 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Changing hosts
06:10:08 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:10:18 <Ampera> EEVBlog time
06:10:18 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 06:18 Sydney time.
06:11:16 <desu> is that the only command?
06:12:56 <Ampera> EEVBlog fuck you
06:12:57 <EEVBlog> You can get that over fibre now?
06:13:04 <Ampera> EEVBlog eat my ass
06:13:10 <Ampera> EEVBlog you're a cunt
06:13:10 <EEVBlog> If you keep saying that, I'm gonna hold you upside down and shake you until all the electrons fall out, Ampera!
06:13:33 <Ampera> Its main function is to read Dave's twitter account and post anything he posts
06:13:34 <Ampera> so
06:13:35 <Ampera> EEVBlog status
06:13:36 <EEVBlog> EEVBlog's Latest Tweet: That doesn't look like a shipping label. Either my zebra printer is possessed, or this is first contact with an alien race. https://t.co/EuF9TWeu9k
06:14:21 <desu> oh
06:14:27 <desu> does dave ever come here?
06:14:39 <Ampera> He came here once
06:14:53 <Ampera> IRC isn't his thing, but his community enjoys it (as we are all here)
06:16:01 <desu> oh
06:19:06 <desu> that's cool i guess
06:19:30 <desu> System.DllNotFoundException: libX11.so
06:19:41 <desu> lol weird
06:19:45 <desu> i am using x11 now
06:27:15 <rust_collector> great
07:51:01 <steve30> hi
07:51:38 <rust_collector> hello, mr steve30
07:51:38 <EEVBlog> Hello there, rust_collector!
07:51:50 <rust_collector> uhm, yeah
07:52:00 <steve30> hello EEVBlog and rust_collector
07:53:12 <rust_collector> is anything fun happening? I am somewhere between slapping together a constant surrent load, and going to bed.
07:53:30 <steve30> i just got up, i'm waiting for coffee to brew
07:53:47 <rust_collector> You can have some of mine while you wait
07:54:28 <rust_collector> nasty capsule sort of coffee, but it is pretty effective
08:00:52 <steve30> does it have rust in it?
08:01:31 <rust_collector> not sure? it does look like it maybe has a little bit of rust, but it might also just be an old dirty mug
08:01:53 <rust_collector> uhm, which around here means it probably does have rust
08:16:33 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: So that's interesting, my @Trezor plugged into the same USB bus as my Rode AI-1 audio interface causes a USB resources problem when combined with Mumble and Audacity I use for recording @TheAmpHour Bet I'm the only one on the planet to encounter that scenario... https://t.co/jTXlhAfId9
08:21:36 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I love it when the tech from the downed UFO at Roswell filters through to market https://t.co/rzOOfMNmZA
08:23:31 <rust_collector> I ended up taking apart my little forklift battery charger. They did put a lot of stuff in this thing
08:28:09 <T3sl4> not just a rectifier?
08:29:04 <rust_collector> it has... a pic16 somethingsomething, and 5 other random chips
08:32:34 Join: T3sl41 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:32:44 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o T3sl41
08:34:00 <T3sl41> crazy... tstorm coming, internet just dropped...
08:34:34 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
08:34:41 <rust_collector> awesome! go get ice cream, and find some place outside with a roof, and enjoy
08:34:48 <T3sl41> mmm
08:35:00 * steve30 hugs T3sl41
08:35:15 <T3sl41> it's a bit of a walk to the DQ, but being that it's hot in here, that does sound refreshing...
08:35:18 * T3sl41 hugs steve30
08:36:00 <rust_collector> I can not really eat milk products, but I do like ice cream and thunder
08:36:00 <steve30> There's a guy at the gym who reminds me of T3sl41. I don't think they actually look that similar, but he reminds me of you anyway.
08:42:49 <rust_collector> I tend to have ideas about how people look. Like a person on the radio. Most of the time, I am completely wrong, but my image of them is often better
08:43:46 <T3sl41> hah
08:43:51 Nick: T3sl41 is now known as T3sl4
08:49:35 <T3sl4> steve30: give him a hug for me ;)
08:58:19 <rust_collector> Linear Derating Factor 1.3 W/°C
08:59:11 <rust_collector> so, do I just remove 1.3w per degree of temp, from the max "non-linear" rating?
08:59:38 <T3sl4> from whatever temp it derates from, usually room temp
08:59:59 <rust_collector> ok, that makes sense
09:01:03 <rust_collector> PD @TC = 25°C Power Dissipation 200 W
09:01:10 <rust_collector> so, I guess from 25c
09:04:36 <rust_collector> I am not sure if I want to use these fets, or if I should stay with bjts, for a power supply. I am sure they would handle what I want, but... should I?
09:06:20 <rust_collector> I am just looking for 20v and 1 or 2 amps. Or whatever the thing ends up capable of, lol
09:07:07 <T3sl4> not a big deal either way; i'd go for BJT, or SMPS because of course i would
09:07:27 <rust_collector> yeah, you probably would.
09:08:41 <rust_collector> I am very new to this stuff. and a simple linear power supply is THE project I have been interested in, for too long
09:09:19 <rust_collector> I am not sure why, btw
09:12:10 <T3sl4> it's a good introductory project
09:13:22 <rust_collector> I keep seeing people saying that, but it is also pretty confusing, when all I can find about it ends with 300 comments about the design being crap, and it will fry anything you have in the same room as the thing
09:13:27 <T3sl4> i made them /years/ ago, not very interesting to me anymore, more just background knowledge
09:15:13 <rust_collector> It seems that the current limiting is the tricky part. I dunno. I should probably just pick some design that looks ok to me, and see what happens.
09:15:39 <T3sl4> variable current limit is harder than fixed
09:16:01 <T3sl4> and there's still the pair of LM317s which will handle about what you're doing, just as is
09:16:30 <rust_collector> yeah. there is that.
09:16:50 * steve30 curls up on T3sl4's lap
09:17:14 * T3sl4 scritches steve30 with a 2N3055-heated brush
09:17:45 <steve30> mmm, transistory
09:18:04 <rust_collector> Hmm, I wonder, how about a switchable current limit. say you have 2 settings. Well, 3. one set to... 100ma, one to 500, and one "no limit" Would that be easier to get working, than a variable limit?
09:18:14 <T3sl4> yeah
09:18:20 <T3sl4> or even just putting a pot on it, not a big deal
09:18:36 <T3sl4> having it electronically controlled, you really need the pair-of-error-amps architecture that most bench supplies use
09:27:01 * steve30 ponders food
09:27:17 * T3sl4 sticks a taco in steve30
09:27:34 <rust_collector> I think the electronic roject I have been most happy with, is the adjustable voltage "laptop power brick" with a voltmeter screen on the side. I am easily amused, I guess
09:28:01 <rust_collector> Hmm, I have taco leftovers from dinner. brb
09:28:02 <T3sl4> fairly useful
09:28:24 <rust_collector> it is actually working much better than I thought it would
09:28:59 <rust_collector> it goes down to 4v or so, and up to 35, and seems stable enough
09:49:39 <rust_collector> Tims for a nap, have a good day/night/whatever
09:49:48 <DHess_US> BJTs are cheaper per watt
10:04:27 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Tricky Dick Smith now has a Youtube channel and he's not afraid to use it: https://t.co/3U3iZMctrW
10:06:55 <desu> so for i and q samples
10:07:26 <desu> i do not need a extra x variable to put it on a plot
10:07:51 <desu> because i would be x?
10:09:33 <T3sl4> if you want to make a scatterplot of i vs q, sure
10:09:48 <T3sl4> if you want to plot both as waveforms, you need x = time
10:11:04 <desu> how does that work
10:11:10 <desu> if x = q * I
10:11:26 <T3sl4> what
10:11:27 <desu> i can't have 2 x in a plot?
10:11:39 <desu> idk
10:13:10 <desu> if i is x i mean
10:15:01 <T3sl4> what are you actually doing
10:16:42 <desu> trying to plot i and q samples in opengl
10:16:51 <desu> but the opengl part is irelevant for now
10:17:04 <desu> as i can't get this to work properly in octave
10:17:30 <desu> well plot the complex value of i and iq
10:17:35 <desu> i + q*I
10:20:32 <T3sl4> how do you want to plot them?
10:21:39 <desu> like i did with the sine wave
10:21:48 <desu> but what i don't understand is
10:22:08 <desu> if i is x why do i need x = time
10:23:27 <desu> so do i just discard i?
10:23:27 <desu> basically
10:23:27 <desu> and plot against time instead
10:35:43 <T3sl4> which i are you talking about
10:36:00 <T3sl4> EEs use j = sqrt(-1) to reduce confusion
10:43:46 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: For those who haven't seen it yet, this talk I shot of @DickSmithFairGo talking about amateur radio and adventure is simply brilliant, you must watch it: https://t.co/2cmFeR4X3C
10:45:21 <desu> oh
10:45:23 <desu> yes
10:45:27 <desu> -1
10:45:30 <desu> the imaginary unit
10:45:46 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: @DickSmithFairGo And for those that prefer to listen to an Audio podcast version https://t.co/AQySpRTqMj
11:21:32 <steve30> me has coffee
11:23:54 * T3sl4 coughs on steve30
11:35:09 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Worlds Best Low Battery Indicator! https://t.co/DN5izpC7tf
11:41:12 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Recommended videos on the side of my current EEVblog2 video Those view counts... https://t.co/stTSirLOH9
11:46:14 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I'm in the wrong genre https://t.co/1xtP4QbaOr
12:08:38 <Halcyon> Afternoon all
12:09:47 <Ampera> Halcyon!
12:09:50 <Ampera> How do fren?
12:09:54 <Ampera> eevblog time
12:09:54 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 12:18 Sydney time.
12:10:02 <Halcyon> I just got up not long ago *grin*
12:10:07 <Ampera> no work?
12:10:10 <Halcyon> I needed that sleep in
12:10:14 <Halcyon> Nope, it's Friday, my day off
12:10:17 <steve30> hi Halcyon
12:10:24 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :)
12:10:31 <Ampera> I got some pictures for you, Halcyon
12:10:41 <Ampera> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310478241989263371/593977422559313921/IMG_20190627_205904.jpg My new DAW
12:10:58 <Halcyon> Yay
12:11:17 <Halcyon> Works OK with Linux?
12:11:29 <Ampera> Yeah I believe I told you how I managed to get Arch Linux on there
12:11:35 <steve30> I might go out on the bike this morning
12:12:13 <Halcyon> Do that Steve :)
12:12:25 <Halcyon> It's such a nice day out here today
12:12:39 <steve30> its a bit chilly this morning
12:12:44 <Ampera> http://amperaa.net/cdn/AmpDAW/
12:13:06 <Ampera> I have some examples of stuff I've already recorded with the DAW, along with a screenshot of a load of programs I've been using
12:13:32 <Ampera> My playing isn't the best, as these are all /very/ limited takes
12:13:46 <Ampera> the worst is the clean Grabbag rendition, which I really must have spazzed out on
12:15:09 <Ampera> Also some stuff has some high levels, and some stuff low, I didn't try to homogenize them, so take care not to blow your ears or speakers out
12:15:25 <Halcyon> Hahah
12:16:01 <Ampera> All the tracks with DSP in the name are all computer effects based on the normal clean sound of my guitar
13:06:51 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Worlds Best Low Battery Indicator! https://t.co/WEGAvJKE3s
13:37:42 <steve30> I decided I don't feel like going out this morning. I'm tired
13:38:38 <Ampera> good night, steve30
13:59:22 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: HELP: I'm trying to get a "DCPrint Pro 2.5" demo software. Need the ZIP password or an unzipped copy of it, anyone know? Thanks.
14:08:04 * steve30 cuddles Halcyon
14:12:31 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: No need any more, I guessed the password :-D Hacking like a BOSS
14:25:28 <steve30> Looks like I might have to learn how to use Windows 7
14:26:33 <Ampera> steve30, I used it for years, what do you need to learn
14:28:24 <steve30> Don't know yet. I just think I'll have to do a full reinstall on my Dad's laptop.
14:29:56 <Ampera> The issue with Windows is that it needs quite a lot of essential programs to make it usable, and that number grows the farther back you get.
14:30:51 <Ampera> I'd say the essentials to install are: Antivirus (I liked Avast), 7zip, decent browser, Notepad++, VLC (or a V4W codec pack)
14:31:01 <Ampera> just for basics, I'm probably forgetting something
14:31:22 <Ampera> I just remember having a lot of stuff on Windows just for utility
14:31:38 <steve30> He pretty much just needs $browser, $email-client, VLC and IrfanView
14:31:50 <steve30> Maybe MS Office.
14:32:58 <Ampera> I'm not gonna suggest LibreOffice, as it is, in my opinion, as bad as MS Office
14:33:08 <Ampera> They are to my stupid eyes the same shit, just different developer
14:33:15 <Ampera> and one in theory doesn't have a price tag
14:33:42 <steve30> I've been using the same pirated version of MS Office since the year 2000.
14:34:23 <Ampera> I should probably find myself an office suite that isn't stupidly massive nor a resource hog, as I might need one
14:34:37 <Ampera> but how big a rich text editor can get is fucking mind boggling.
14:35:03 * steve30 passes Ampera some ClarisWorks
14:35:25 <Ampera> If he's somewhat computer literate, or at least web literate, you can dispense with the AV, once I hit NT 10 I never used one besides defender, but if he isn't, it's a rather good idea
14:35:54 <steve30> yeah, its worth having an antivirus on there
14:36:32 <Ampera> As for ClarisWorks, I'd want something that's A. Linux, B. halfway modern
14:37:22 <Ampera> Just watching the music video for Hey Jude, that must have been fucking crazy for Lennon to sing, since it was literally /you had a bad divorce/ the song
14:37:32 <Ampera> well more /you had a bad divorce and your kid suffered through it/
14:38:25 <Ampera> It's just absolutely insane, though, seeing footage this old, but this well done, and containing normal, average people
14:38:36 <Ampera> you can see how much and how little it all changed
14:39:07 <Ampera> I've never seen irfanview before
14:39:36 <Ampera> as a general image viewer I use Geeqie, but that's Linux
14:44:00 <steve30> I like geeqie for linux
14:44:13 <steve30> I'm a long term user of irfanview on windows though
14:44:44 <Ampera> I have such a set number of standard programs I use and install Linux so often that I can tell you right now all of the standard equipment I use for Linux
14:45:32 <Ampera> chromium, filezilla, gimp, xfe, geeqie, vlc, audacity, hexchat, alacritty
14:46:11 <Ampera> after X and my window manager of choice, those are the first things I install on most, if not all of my Linux and even BSD machines
14:46:57 <Ampera> along with ensuring I have non-graphical programs available like nano, openssh, sshfs, and any package management tools I need additional (on Arch I use an AUR helper and powerpill)
14:55:00 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Name the connector and win The Internet https://t.co/QdYZHEc8xg
15:07:15 <desu> install gentoo
15:07:57 <Ampera> I've never used gentoo, but as far as I can guess it's a distro that takes a, why the fuck do you exist, approach to package managers
15:08:15 <desu> i like it
15:08:21 <desu> i'd use it if i had a better cpu
15:08:25 <desu> maybe
15:08:38 <Ampera> what CPU do you have now
15:08:42 <desu> intel hd2500
15:08:49 <desu> oh no
15:08:51 <Ampera> that's a GPU
15:08:52 <desu> that's the graphic
15:09:00 <desu> intel 2500k
15:09:08 <Ampera> 2500k isn't a bad CPU
15:09:14 <desu> no
15:09:22 <desu> buut i don't like waiting for packages to compile
15:09:24 <Ampera> so why do you need a better one for gentoo
15:09:34 <Ampera> /then why are you using gentoo/
15:09:52 <desu> you know i really don't know what my point was
15:10:00 <desu> GOOD NIGHT
15:10:13 <Ampera> gentoo is for people who have nothing better to do but to figure out exactly what config options they want for each and every program, as it takes them 20 years to get a working environment
15:10:29 <Ampera> which I can respect, but arch is basically the linux ricer of gentoo without the pain in the ass of gentoo
15:10:39 <Ampera> good night ma'am
15:10:49 <desu> uwu
15:15:27 <desu> why
15:15:31 <desu> do you ctcp version me?
15:15:34 <desu> Ampera:
15:16:24 <desu> WHY
15:16:42 <Ampera> I WANT TO KNOW YOUR VERSION >:(
15:16:49 <Ampera> BUT IT'S NOT TELLING ME YOUR VERSION
15:16:52 <Ampera> BECAUSE
15:16:53 <Ampera> YOU HAVE
15:16:56 <Ampera> NO
15:16:56 <Ampera> VERSION
15:17:16 <desu> 07:25 [znc_efnet] CTCP VERSION reply from desu: irssi v1.2.0 - running on OpenBSD amd64 via ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in
15:17:29 <desu> it won't let me send you version cause im not registered on austnet
15:17:34 <Ampera> oh right
15:17:41 <Ampera> damian, seaner, gremlinz
15:17:49 <Ampera> y u do dis
15:18:34 <desu> hate nickserv
15:18:49 <desu> i never register on irc networks
15:20:55 <Ampera> austnet doesn't use nickserv, they use NickOP
15:21:04 <Ampera> which is like nickserv, just less functional and more annoying
15:21:06 <desu> same thing
15:21:25 <desu> that's why i like efnet
15:21:30 <desu> no services
15:21:37 <desu> as the way it should be
15:57:45 <DHess_US> Now witness the firepower of the fully armed and operational IPv6 router.
15:58:04 <Ampera> what does it do that an IPv4 router doesn't
15:58:10 <Ampera> besides route IPv6
15:58:59 <DHess_US> Um, route IPv6
15:59:06 <Ampera> which does what?
15:59:30 <DHess_US> It is just tricky to get working. Spectrum apparantly broke it where I am so I have to use tunneling.
16:00:08 <DHess_US> Pinging ipv6.l.google.com [2607:f8b0:4009:806::200e] with 32 bytes of data:
16:00:08 <DHess_US> Reply from 2607:f8b0:4009:806::200e: time=15ms
16:00:08 <DHess_US> Reply from 2607:f8b0:4009:806::200e: time=16ms
16:00:08 <DHess_US> Reply from 2607:f8b0:4009:806::200e: time=18ms
16:00:24 <DHess_US> Or do you mean what is it useful for?
16:01:07 <Ampera> ye
16:01:42 <DHess_US> There is some dark web stuff on IPv6 which is not on IPv4. But that is always decreasing.
16:02:04 <DHess_US> Open file servers, etc.
16:02:16 <Ampera> any snuff?
16:02:24 <DHess_US> Not that I have seen.
16:02:33 <Ampera> alright well I'll stick with IPv4 for now
16:02:56 <Ampera> I'd use IPv6, but I am very lost on how it fits together like a normal IPv4 network does
16:03:18 <DHess_US> Once you get it working, it is transparent. I just gets used in parallel with IPv4.
16:03:33 <Ampera> I know it is, and I know how it gets used, I just don't know how to use it
16:03:41 <DHess_US> So if a DNS request returns an IPv6 address, it just gets used.
16:03:56 <DHess_US> You don't do anything special to use it.
16:04:14 <DHess_US> It just means access to more of the internet.
16:04:31 <Ampera> yes, but I have to set it up
16:04:35 <Ampera> on computers and routers
16:04:43 <Ampera> and not only set it up, but secure it
16:04:51 <DHess_US> Like on my Torrent client, now IPv6 connections are avaialble so it works better.
16:04:54 <Ampera> in a manner I can understand, with openings I can create.
16:05:08 <DHess_US> Just block all incoming by default just like IPv4
16:05:38 <DHess_US> Same set of firewall rules as to secure IPv4 which amounts to one rule.
16:06:08 <DHess_US> Default block all incoming. Pass LAN to WAN
16:07:15 <DHess_US> So literally one rule for IPv4 and one rule for IPv6.
16:07:32 <Ampera> what about NAT
16:07:34 <DHess_US> Then open incoming ports with additional rules as required.
16:07:45 <DHess_US> What about it? NAT isn't used on IPv6
16:07:47 <Ampera> which exists on IPv6, but apparently isn't needed like IPv4
16:07:59 <DHess_US> Well, it exists but hardly anybody uses it.
16:08:17 <DHess_US> I'm not sure my router even supports IPv6 NAT.
16:08:26 <Ampera> but, within my even cheap understanding of IPv4, there is a WAN and a LAN, to which traffic needs to be directed from WAN to an appropriate computer on the LAN
16:08:52 <Ampera> what sort of method would I use to direct WAN traffic to a particular LAN IP
16:09:41 <DHess_US> You don't have to. Every LAN IPv6 address is routable.
16:09:57 <Ampera> what does that mean though, to a stupidperson like me
16:10:08 <Ampera> my networking experience is just enough to get me to use the stuff I need to use
16:10:18 <DHess_US> When you get your IPv6 prefix, you get a /64 or /56 or whatever address space for your LAN.
16:10:42 <Ampera> so you actually get a range of what would be effectively WAN IPs for your own use
16:10:43 <DHess_US> It means every machine on your network has an IPv6 address which external machines can send to.
16:10:48 <DHess_US> Yup
16:10:50 <Ampera> cor
16:11:07 <DHess_US> You normally get a /64 so an internet of internets.
16:11:35 <Ampera> so 2^64 LAN IPs?
16:11:37 <DHess_US> Or in other words, you get 64k of 4 billion networks.
16:11:39 <DHess_US> Yes
16:11:57 <DHess_US> err, wait, no. 64k of 48 bit networks.
16:12:33 <Ampera> So a AAAA record would go to the server directly, not the router
16:12:45 <DHess_US> So 64k of 281 trilliion networks.
16:12:54 <DHess_US> yes
16:13:07 <Ampera> and would then mean that, for example, two computers could both use port 80 without any arbitration like a reverse proxy
16:13:17 <Ampera> (on one LAN)
16:13:33 <DHess_US> The way it works by default, any machine's IPv6 address is its 48 bit Ethernet MAC address plus the 16 bit prefix assigned to you.
16:13:40 <DHess_US> That's right.
16:14:21 <DHess_US> Now, that reveals your 48 bit MAC address to the world. If you don't want to do that, you can randomize it so your machines pick a random 48 bit address and stick your prefix on it.
16:14:48 <Ampera> would be more of an issue if firewalls didn't exist
16:14:55 <Ampera> then anyone could WoL my computer
16:14:58 <DHess_US> So your machines "hide" inside an address space which is 65k times the size of the entire IPv4 address space.
16:15:13 <DHess_US> Yes, but it prevents tracking of your internal machines.
16:15:45 <Ampera> alright that makes sense to me anyways, I could probably fairly easily enable that then
16:15:46 <Ampera> let me try it out
16:16:22 <DHess_US> A lot of consumer routers just "do it" by default now.
16:16:42 <DHess_US> But it depends on if your ISP has broken IPv6 like mine atm.
16:16:58 <Ampera> well my router isn't consumer, and I'm hoping my ISP hasn't broken it
16:17:09 <DHess_US> And then you also have to enable it on each computer which may or may not be default.
16:17:29 <Ampera> for the static IP of the router, what should I use
16:17:39 <Ampera> as I'd imagine I'd have to figure out what IP my ISP has given me
16:17:40 <DHess_US> My ISP has it broken so I set my router to get IPv6 via the standard IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling mechanisgm.
16:18:14 <DHess_US> Your router knows that. Usually it comes down to just setting the router's IPv6 to DHCP.
16:18:18 <DHess_US> Just like with IPv4.
16:19:06 <DHess_US> Hmm, I have mine set to tunnel 6in4 but I wonder what this SLAAC thing is.
16:19:30 <Ampera> Wait, would DHCPv6 then be delivered to my computer not by my router, but by the ISP?
16:19:54 <DHess_US> Nono, like DHCP on your WAN interface.
16:20:14 <Ampera> it's set to that, but for whatever reason I have an option to set DHCPv6 on my LAN interface, for my router
16:20:15 <DHess_US> DHCP didn't work on mine.
16:20:31 <DHess_US> Yes, DHCPv6 on LAN is one possible configuration.
16:20:47 <DHess_US> But normally the native IPv6 autoconfiguration mode is used.
16:20:56 <Ampera> but would that then operate as I've described, or would my router's LAN address simply be my WAN address
16:21:00 <Ampera> ah I'd imagine it would be
16:21:01 <DHess_US> IPv6 has a built in replacement for DHCP
16:21:18 <Ampera> which is
16:21:29 <DHess_US> Where the router just "advertises" the IPv6 prefix to the LAN machines and they pick their own IPs.
16:21:37 <DHess_US> It's just default.
16:21:52 <DHess_US> I had to set mine to "track WAN" whatever that means.
16:22:43 <DHess_US> RA or Router Advertisements, https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/routing/configuring-ipv6-router-advertisements.html?highlight=slaac
16:22:56 <DHess_US> I think I configured mine wrong. Maybe.
16:23:04 <DHess_US> I'm using tunenlign but I should be using RA
16:23:26 <Ampera> well it looks like I got a WAN IP
16:23:39 <Ampera> would my router's LAN IP then be the same as it's WAN, or would it operate on an IP within that prefix
16:23:48 <Ampera> or yes and yes
16:23:59 <DHess_US> If I could get SLAAC workign, that would be sweet.
16:24:11 <Ampera> I have an option for that, what is SLAAC
16:24:37 <DHess_US> It's just what I said. It it is the native IPv6 router advertisements thing
16:24:47 <DHess_US> It is what IPv6 uses by default instead of DHCP
16:25:08 <Ampera> alright I changed it to that, since that would be why that option is there then
16:25:58 <DHess_US> So lets see .. I set SLAAC on WAN and SLAAC on LAN and ...
16:26:42 <Ampera> well I've set it to SLAAC and it looks like it's working
16:26:44 <Ampera> somehow
16:27:17 <DHess_US> Whoa
16:27:48 <Ampera> ah, DNS server
16:27:51 <DHess_US> testing it
16:27:54 <Ampera> might I need to configure one of those for IPv6
16:28:57 <DHess_US> Well, that didn't work.
16:30:20 <DHess_US> Not DHCP6
16:30:58 <Ampera> DHess_US, how the hell does DNS work on IPv6
16:31:33 <DHess_US> That's a good question.
16:31:55 <Ampera> I plugged the cloudflare DNS into the same place I plugged the IPv4 versions
16:32:01 <DHess_US> I think what is suppose to happen is that the machine updates the DNS resolver.
16:32:25 <Ampera> If I ping an IPv6 address, I get a response
16:33:53 <Ampera> or at least it did, I tried to ping google's IPv6 and it said network is unreachable
16:37:42 <DHess_US> Welp, back to 6to4 tunnel with SLAAC on LAN
16:37:50 <DHess_US> That should *always* work
16:37:53 <Ampera> I set both my WAN and LAN adapters to SLAAC
16:38:09 <DHess_US> You might need to set your WAN to 6to4 Tunnel which bypasses your ISP
16:38:28 <DHess_US> It is automatic. It works but is not ideal.
16:38:33 <DHess_US> Some ISPs like AT&T block it.
16:38:38 <Ampera> my ISP supposedly runs a dual stack, and it says I have an IPv6
16:38:42 <Ampera> My ISP is Bell Atlantic
16:38:56 <DHess_US> Yea, Spectrum says dual stack but that doesn't really mean anything.
16:39:06 <DHess_US> It could mean they allow you to use 6to4 tunneling
16:39:06 <Ampera> I'm not using Spectrum
16:39:16 <Ampera> you have IPv6?
16:39:23 <DHess_US> now I do, again
16:39:28 <DHess_US> Through 6to4 tunneling
16:39:31 <Ampera> lemme PM you what my router says its IP is
16:39:34 <Ampera> see if you can get to it
16:39:38 <DHess_US> sure
16:40:43 <DHess_US> That's not a global IPv6 address
16:40:48 <Ampera> what is
16:40:49 <DHess_US> That is an IPv6 link local address
16:40:59 <Ampera> ah indeed, that's what that says
16:41:05 * Ampera looks up what that means
16:41:23 <DHess_US> Your global address should proabably start with something like 2002
16:43:07 <Ampera> oh, apparently Bell Atlantic is just planning to do a dual stack
16:43:16 <Ampera> and might not have actually done it yet
16:43:37 <DHess_US> You can still use 6to4 to get IPv6 then
16:44:08 <Ampera> would I need to configure that on my LAN interface?
16:44:55 <DHess_US> Lol, noscript is showing ipv6 addresses.
16:44:56 <Ampera> ah I er uh
16:45:07 <DHess_US> No, it is configured on your wAN interface.
16:45:22 <DHess_US> Set wan interface to 6to4 and LAN interface to SLAAC
16:45:39 <DHess_US> That should always work. It isn't "native" ipv6 but it is IPv6
16:46:08 <Ampera> alright
16:46:41 <Ampera> is that an IPv6
16:47:31 <DHess_US> And, there is the answer.
16:47:40 <DHess_US> https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31229847-HSI-Any-schedule-on-native-IPv6
16:47:48 <DHess_US> Actually legacy TWC has been running native IPv6 to end users for a few years now, it's only legacy Charter who can't be bothered.
16:48:16 <Ampera> My area is TWC
16:48:42 <Ampera> I don't have them, though, as choosing DOCSIS over FttP is not intelligent
16:49:06 <Ampera> can you ping the IP that I DMed you?
16:49:40 <DHess_US> sure
16:49:45 <DHess_US> No, why?
16:49:55 <DHess_US> It's a link local address. Nobody but you can ping it
16:50:00 <Ampera> I sent another one
16:50:05 <DHess_US> oh, sec.
16:50:56 <DHess_US> nothing
16:51:19 <DHess_US> Go here to test, http://test-ipv6.com/
16:51:35 <Ampera> I can't because my computer isn't IPv6ing
16:51:37 <Ampera> but my router might be
16:54:21 <DHess_US> my router, pfsense, has a ping diagnostic function so I can ping from my router to anywhere
16:54:34 <Ampera> I /could/ try that
16:54:58 <DHess_US> also traceroute
16:55:16 <Ampera> Alright well I have verified that the router is connecting over IPv6
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 1 2002:c058:6301::1 16.489 ms 15.733 ms 40.255 ms
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 2 2001:470:0:14d::1 21.785 ms 16.628 ms 15.994 ms
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 3 2001:470:0:483::2 17.764 ms 17.123 ms 20.276 ms
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 4 2001:504:0:4:0:1:5169:1 22.112 ms 17.713 ms 16.300 ms
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 5 2001:4860:0:100f::1 17.690 ms
16:55:26 <DHess_US> 2001:4860:0:1010::1 16.951 ms 20.510 ms
16:55:28 <DHess_US> 6 2001:4860:0:1::3e5 18.352 ms 17.544 ms
16:55:30 <DHess_US> 2001:4860:0:1::b81 20.565 ms
16:55:32 <DHess_US> 7 2607:f8b0:4009:806::200e 16.091 ms 16.427 ms 15.366 ms
16:55:34 <DHess_US> That's to google
16:55:44 <Ampera> I did to google and it came back
16:55:56 <Ampera> now the question is why doesn't my computer want to connect via IPv6
16:56:14 <DHess_US> You may need to enable IPv6 on the computer's network stack
16:56:29 <DHess_US> Then if the LAN is set to SLAAC, it should automatically configure
16:56:34 <Ampera> well yes
16:56:35 <Ampera> but how
16:56:42 <DHess_US> damnifIknow
16:56:46 <DHess_US> I don't know your OS
16:56:47 <Ampera> arch's IPv6 wiki page is a clusterfuck
16:56:53 <Ampera> I don't seem to know it either
16:57:02 <DHess_US> It shouldn't be difficult
16:57:08 <DHess_US> Just like enable one switch
16:57:58 <Ampera> the issue is I have no clue what program /is/ the IP stack
16:58:17 <Ampera> It's supposed to be netctl, but I don't have a profile, so I don't know if it actually is doing anything
16:58:37 <Ampera> it /says/ it's supposed to be able to do it
16:59:41 <DHess_US> ipconfig or whatever to see
16:59:54 <Ampera> ipconfig doesn't exist on arch
17:00:02 <Ampera> isn't that a windowism
17:00:43 <DHess_US> I mean whatever the equivalent is
17:00:59 <DHess_US> Hmm, my windows 10 test system can't see IPv6 because the VPN disables it for now.
17:01:03 <Ampera> Linux has ip, but I don't know /what/ the IP stack is
17:01:36 <DHess_US> My Windoes 10 test system is VPNed to Paris, France. Coincidently, I named it Hitler.
17:03:52 <DHess_US> One reason I'm upgrading my router is so I can move my VPN to the router.
17:04:10 <Ampera> standby, bringing interface down
17:06:40 <Ampera> my eye is pissing the shit out of me, so I'm going to call it for now
17:06:41 <Ampera> likely go to bed
17:06:48 <Ampera> try this in the morning
17:07:00 <DHess_US> gnight then
17:07:11 <DHess_US> Trying to find AustNet's IPv6 address
17:28:49 Quit: DHess_US ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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23:29:04 <Guest|27740> Hi Dave . I did a really silly thing i bought an FY6800 from B.Good and it arrived I really though it would work out the box. the specs look good .. wrong .. the power supply almost toasted after hr.I spoke to them to replace they said get it repaired at the local shop.. We are the local lab repair.. Ok ur laughing .
23:32:30 <AndrevS> FY6800? Looks similar to the JDS660 sitting on my desk. Although I must admit I have been using some USB charger in stead of the supply that came with it, as it was 5 Volts too.
23:32:54 <Guest|27740> There is No filtering on the output of the PSU switch mode. and the earth is connected to the centre wire of the neg. (cut and past) of course it pumps RF from mains earth and the harmonics are well . more than a church organ..
23:33:48 <AndrevS> Then it's a different beast. This one got earth at the outer, a regular cable works.
23:33:52 <Guest|27740> this is ment to have 15 0 15 for the op amps and 5v for the rest
23:35:42 <Guest|27740> its the fy6800 m60. the main board seems to be the same with very little updated . the switch power PSU the caps are are getting so hot due to ripple.
23:36:57 <Guest|27740> Yes the earth is at the outer connection really bad to do this on a switch mode.
23:38:21 <Guest|27740> The jitter is good looks like a load of jellies in a earth quake Richter 8 or 9
23:42:40 <Guest|27740> There is No RF filters or any other filters . so if your thinking of buying one .. STop if you need any of the wave forms above 2Mhz . .. I wasted $100 on this and now i will have to make a filter board and PSU so it can run upto the full 25Mhz square wave.
23:49:31 Quit: Guest|27740 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
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