// #eevblog — 2019-06-09
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00:23:04 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:58:16 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:59:00 <Nothing\> hey, am i crazy or is this graph dead wrong?
00:59:02 <Nothing\> http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/images/Cutoff-region-of-a-FET-transistor.png
01:00:01 <Nothing\> i was of the understanding that a jfet starts off conducting and IDS goes down as the gate voltage decreases (becomes more negative) i mean it even says on the graph CUTOFF but if it's cutoff, why's it conducting in that region?
01:02:51 <Nothing\> oh wait nm i think i've figured this graph out now
01:03:46 <Nothing\> the curve gets lower as each voltage decreases, so it makes sense after all
01:16:57 Quit: coppice_ ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
01:17:09 Join: coppice_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:46:20 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
01:54:40 <DHess_US> And he leaves.
01:54:50 <DHess_US> Now you will never know what cutoff means! Mwhahahaha!
02:01:59 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:42:27 Join: Guest|10993 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:42:40 <Guest|10993> Hello
04:42:47 <Guest|10993> I have a question
04:43:01 <Guest|10993> How comes most multi meters are fused ar 10A?
04:43:15 <Guest|10993> Because i live in europe and a standard breaker is 16a
04:43:23 <Guest|10993> At*
04:44:11 Quit: Guest|10993 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
04:53:53 <DHess_US> Because they are fused in metric.
05:05:21 <rust_collector> Why does mt chinese special meter not like to measure the current when I start my angle grinder? Maybe I need an european meter?
05:07:29 <rust_collector> my
05:25:08 <DHess_US> Your angle grinder is not chinesium compatable.
05:25:19 <rust_collector> oh no
05:25:36 <rust_collector> So I have to buy an adapter
05:26:49 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:26:49 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
06:05:33 <Ampera> that guest is going to blow up his meter
06:05:40 <Ampera> I'd put money on it
06:07:54 <rust_collector> I guess I am lucky, as I still have a few 10a circuits in the house
06:43:09 <Ampera> 10A circuits?
06:43:19 <Ampera> I didn't know such a thing was even done in the US
06:48:36 <rust_collector> I think you are right. and it is probably not done any more over here either
06:56:37 <DHess_US> 5 and 10 amp circuits for lighting are common. They use 15 or 20 amp wiring but with a 5 or 10 amp breaker.
06:57:18 <DHess_US> And all of my 10 amp fused multimeters measure fine up to 20 amps. They show overload after that.
06:57:57 <DHess_US> I left my Beckman RMS225 wired into my main distribution box measuring the air conditioner current for a couple weeks once.
07:00:14 <DHess_US> It was small enough to fit and with the radial terminal arrangement, I could just make a custom 3/4" banana plug adapter to plug it in semi-permamently.
07:07:20 Join: steve31 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:07:38 <Ampera> DHess_US, but you don't measure current by putting it through a multimeter
07:07:50 <Ampera> and yeah that was my guess, lighting
07:08:16 <Ampera> the question still remains, if it's all 15 or 20 wiring, why even put a 10 breaker on there, that's the point of that
07:09:10 <DHess_US> Ampera, actually what I just described did put the current through the multimter.
07:09:33 <DHess_US> I wired my 10 amp Beckman RMS225 in series with one of the hots going to the air conditioner.
07:09:47 <DHess_US> That's why I left it installed into the circuit breaker box for a couple weeks.
07:09:48 <Ampera> so what you're telling me is you put 20 amps through a 10a fuse, and it didn't blow
07:09:58 <DHess_US> It was more like 13 amps continuous.
07:10:07 <DHess_US> Why would a 10 amp fuse blow at 13 amps?
07:10:18 <Ampera> idk what the rupture current of your 10 amp fuse is
07:10:33 <DHess_US> 10 amps is the minimum rated continuous current.
07:10:55 <DHess_US> But most meters with a 10 amp range have a specification like 20 amps for 10 seconds or something.
07:11:18 <Ampera> throwing a meter in series isn't how I was taught anyways
07:11:32 <DHess_US> Sometimes you have to cut the coat to fit the cloth.
07:12:04 <Ampera> I sometimes think about cutting myself
07:12:07 <DHess_US> The better way would have been to use an AC clamp meter of course but I do not remember why I did not do that.
07:12:17 <Ampera> I'll look at knives, think about their sharpness and finality
07:12:24 <Ampera> think aout how easy it would be to kill myself with them
07:12:36 <Ampera> it would hurt, but pain is temporary, death is eternal
07:12:45 <DHess_US> You know how when you cut yourself you bleed? Don't do that.
07:12:47 <Ampera> or to stick it in parallel, but whatever
07:12:52 <Ampera> why not
07:12:56 <Ampera> I
07:13:04 <Ampera> women bleed all the time, and that's considered normal
07:13:09 <Ampera> but when I do it, it's called suicide
07:41:13 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Connection closed
07:53:07 <DHess_US> Ampera, there might be another reason the fuse did not blow, https://i.ibb.co/6XhrFvf/Beckman-RMS225.jpg
07:54:48 <rust_collector> much neater than auuminum foil
07:56:38 <Ampera> DHess_US, ah I see, you replaced it with a 100A fuse
07:56:46 <DHess_US> The battery needed changing so time to do some refurbishment.
07:57:18 <DHess_US> Oddly enough Ampera, that is a 20 amp fusible length of stranded copper.
07:57:56 <DHess_US> 26 awg is 20 amps for 1 second
07:58:22 <Ampera> took my best guess
07:58:22 <DHess_US> 39 amps for 1 second
07:58:53 <Ampera> too much amperage
07:58:54 <DHess_US> rust_collector, I would never use aluminum foil to subvert a fuse.
07:59:24 <DHess_US> The original was 15 amps 600 volts
07:59:27 <Halcyon> Morning all
08:00:45 <rust_collector> hey Halcyon
08:00:53 <Ampera> hi Halcyon
08:00:58 <DHess_US> The smaller one is suppose to be 1/4 amp but I think my hack is 1 amp.
08:00:58 <Ampera> how do
08:01:06 <Halcyon> Not too bad. You?
08:01:12 <DHess_US> I didn't have anything smaller than 40 awg.
08:01:14 <Ampera> tic tac
08:02:05 <rust_collector> I just remember my moms uncle, who had an assortment of nails and various metal bits to jam into the fuse holders, out in the barn, lol
08:03:29 <Ampera> rust_collector, presumably it's a "remember" because a guy like that is going to burst into flames one day or the other
08:04:03 <Halcyon> I haven't seen one of those traditional fuse holders for many years
08:04:18 <rust_collector> nah, the barn is still there. guy is in a nursing home
08:05:01 <Ampera> Around where I'm staying in the basement, no matter which, there will be a cheater plug
08:05:27 <rust_collector> to be fair, he did not leave the "fuses" in, he just used them while device xxx was in use, then removed it
08:05:27 <Ampera> I got a free bench grinder today someone ripped the ground pin out of, so I'm gonna have to get a new appliance cable for that
08:05:45 <Ampera> that doesn't really make it better
08:06:01 <rust_collector> yeah, it does
08:06:24 <Halcyon> Why would someone rip out the earth pin?
08:06:26 <rust_collector> not saying it is perfect or anything, but
08:06:29 <Halcyon> Just to be a prick?
08:06:38 <Ampera> Halcyon, so you could plug it into an unearthed socket
08:06:47 <Halcyon> So, stupidity
08:06:53 <rust_collector> you rip the ground pin out, so you can give it away
08:06:55 <Ampera> basically
08:07:14 <Ampera> some houses or rooms don't have grounded sockets
08:07:19 <Halcyon> Is that common?
08:07:28 <Ampera> in older houses
08:07:39 <Ampera> I'd say early 70's and before
08:07:43 <Halcyon> Right
08:07:48 <Ampera> more common as you go back
08:08:13 <DHess_US> Becaue they stepped on the plug.
08:08:24 <DHess_US> Yes, it's common in older houses in the US.
08:09:11 <DHess_US> I've lived in a couple places where the outlet boxes actually had neutral, hot and ground going to them but the original sockets were only two pin.
08:09:26 <Halcyon> I think we've had our current sockets since the 1930's or 1940's
08:09:40 <Halcyon> Even in old homes, I don't recall ever seeing anything different
08:10:35 <Ampera> Now my question, is that is there such thing as a NEMA 1-20?
08:11:09 <Halcyon> *shrug*
08:11:16 <Ampera> beacuse I see sockets that look like NEMA 1-15, but they have the T shaped holes of NEMA 5-20, but on both prongs
08:11:33 <Ampera> as if it's intended to be unpolarized
08:11:56 <Ampera> although in theory you could have an unpolarized ungrounded NEMA 5-20 plug/appliance
08:12:58 <Halcyon> It's strange to me that people in UK go on about their plug design being "the best", but I see a few issues with it not present on other designs
08:13:51 <rust_collector> I think the guy who designed that, is the same guy who invented the forklift
08:15:02 <Ampera> Imo the best plug design is German Shucko
08:15:05 <Ampera> which is CEE something
08:15:44 <Ampera> It's one of, if not the most used socket design as far as number of user nations, it's grounded, fully safe, has a low wall form factor, and doesn't stab you if you step on it
08:16:01 <Ampera> The only slight issue is it's unpolarized, which is most of the time not a big deal
08:16:18 <Halcyon> Yep, I was going to say, that's pretty much it's only flaw
08:16:39 <Ampera> *its
08:16:47 <Halcyon> Indeed
08:17:50 <rust_collector> It does tend to work well. At least I have not had many issues with them
08:19:10 <rust_collector> I guess the french/czech/some other places version, with the ground pin in the wall part might be an upgrade, but I am not going to worry about the regular ones I have
08:19:26 <Ampera> Also high compatability, it works with all CEE 230v plugs sans French Shucko
08:19:37 <Ampera> Actually no it works with those too
08:19:58 <Ampera> it's just that german shucko plugs can't do french shucko outlets, because of grounding pin
08:20:17 <Ampera> I don't think it's an upgrade, more of a sidegrade
08:20:20 <Ampera> both options work perfectly well
08:20:37 <rust_collector> most things now, come with the hole for the ground pin, so
08:23:07 <DHess_US> Ampera, NEMA 1-20P exists but not NEMA 1-20R because a NEMA 5-20R is upwards compatable.
08:23:31 <DHess_US> So I assume a NEMA 1-20 plug has one spade rotated 90 degrees.
08:25:15 <Ampera> so then what the hell is the sort of plug I saw
08:25:16 <DHess_US> Oh, and there is a NEMA 1-30P also
08:25:22 <DHess_US> I found a pic, sec.
08:25:38 <DHess_US> https://static.stayonline.com/images/ReferencePages/nema_1-20p.gif
08:25:49 <DHess_US> second entry from the top, https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/nema-straight-blade-reference-chart.asp
08:26:04 <DHess_US> So the other spade isn't rotated but is bent 90 degres.
08:26:46 <DHess_US> And a 30 amp version where it is bent the other way. I don't remember ever seeing one in real life.
08:27:06 <Ampera> that's plug though, I'm talking about recepticle
08:27:13 <Ampera> which I should have included
08:27:54 <DHess_US> There never was a specific recepticle for it. The NEMA 5-20 recepticle accepts it.
08:28:33 <DHess_US> NEMA 5-20 stuff I have seen.
08:28:55 <DHess_US> Computers and UPSes sometimes have it.
08:29:23 <Ampera> No what I'm saying is I am wondering if there is a NEMA 1-20R
08:29:29 <DHess_US> No, there is not.
08:29:35 <DHess_US> There never was.
08:29:47 <DHess_US> NEMA 5-20R is used instead.
08:29:54 <DHess_US> It was always that way.
08:30:40 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEMA_5_1_devices2.jpg
08:30:44 <Ampera> then what do you call that on the right
08:35:39 <Halcyon> My favourite plugs are the Neutrik Speakon/Powercon connectors
08:35:51 <DHess_US> That's a "Double T-slot"
08:35:57 <DHess_US> It isn't NEMA 1-20R.
08:36:45 <DHess_US> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&biw=1288&bih=653&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=Pzr8XJL7KY26tQXFqruwBA&q=Double+T-slot+recepticle&oq=Double+T-slot+recepticle&gs_l=img.3...1056.6498..6804...0.0..0.3238.5350.7j3j5-2j9-1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i24.sHWoQ3RpqiE
08:36:46 <Ampera> Then what is it
08:36:56 <DHess_US> I said, it is a "double t-slot"
08:37:12 <Ampera> but why does it exist, what are the specs, does it have a NEMA standard number?
08:37:47 <Halcyon> It looks like it pre-dates NEMA codes
08:39:18 <DHess_US> NEMA didn't specify plugs and receptibles until decades after the double t-slot was introduced and they didn't give it a designation.
08:40:20 <DHess_US> And it was only intended for 15 amps
08:40:34 <Halcyon> https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/Tap-A-Line.html
08:40:39 <Halcyon> That looks deathy
08:42:45 <DHess_US> track lighting works like that
08:43:27 <Halcyon> Sure, but it's not normal accessible to the user, e.g.: It would be too tempting for a child to stick a knife in there
08:43:54 <Halcyon> This is interesting though: "
08:43:54 <Halcyon> In many homes, build in the 1920 and '30 radio antenna coils were installed at the attic. A wire connected the antenna to a grounded radio outlet downstairs. Plugs existed for the outlet to radio connection. These plugs had a pin configuration that never has been used for 120 or 240 Volt power plugs."
08:43:56 <Halcyon> https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/NorthAm2.html
08:44:08 <Ampera> but why the T shape over the regular prong
08:44:11 <Ampera> what is that supposed to do
08:45:20 <Halcyon> Different current rating?
08:45:31 <DHess_US> The t shape distinguished 20 amp sockets
08:45:53 <Ampera> >only intended for 15A >socket shaped for 20 amps
08:45:55 <Ampera> which is it
08:45:57 <DHess_US> 20 amp plugs use bent or horizontal keying so they may only be inserted into 20 amp sockets.
08:46:08 <Ampera> are those double T sockets used for 20A
08:46:27 <DHess_US> Who knows? NEMA never standardized them.
08:46:35 <Ampera> someone did
08:46:37 <Ampera> and someone made them
08:46:39 <Ampera> and then installed them
08:46:46 <DHess_US> It isn't like a NEMA 5-15 will blow up if operated at 20 amps.
08:46:55 <DHess_US> That double-T standard is from like 1909.
08:47:04 <DHess_US> NEMA didn't get involved until 1940
08:47:39 <Ampera> but I've seen them installed in houses from the 1960's
08:47:42 <DHess_US> I suspect the originals were all 15 amps but then NEMA made sure that it would only plug into a 20 amp NEMA receptacle.
08:48:17 <DHess_US> I might have seen some but I only remember 1-15Rs.
09:00:06 <Ampera> OH, DHess_US, apparently those outlets were for NEMA 2-15 and 2-20 plugs
09:00:12 <Ampera> as well as NEMA 1-15 style
09:00:30 <Ampera> I don't know how they dealt with the voltage difference or how that went, but looking at the standards, that makes sense
09:06:42 <DHess_US> what voltage difference? 115 to 125?
09:13:31 <Ampera> DHess_US, 120 to 240?
09:13:38 <Ampera> what do you think NEMA 2 is
09:13:47 <Ampera> rated up to 250V
09:24:11 <DHess_US> I suspect NEMA 2-30 uses dimentions which are not comptable with the 120 volt parts.
09:25:23 <DHess_US> The drawings seem to show that both prongs are taller.
09:25:41 <DHess_US> So it would not fit into a 1-15 or 5-15 receptacle.
09:27:06 * Halcyon handles T3sl4's prong
09:28:55 <DHess_US> Re: Blended wing aircraft are working well for the USAF so why not for passengers? "Bombs don't need pressurized cabins, don't get airsick, and they have an evacuation route that isn't FAA approved for humans."
09:30:07 * steve31 meows at Halcyon
09:30:48 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :D
09:30:54 * Halcyon puts the cat outside
09:30:55 <Halcyon> :P
09:34:15 <DHess_US> Ampera, thinking about it, I have seen NEMA 2 plugs before and they are not compatable with NEMA 1 or 5 receptacles. They look like giant sized NEMA 1 plugs.
09:34:51 <DHess_US> I didn't know what they were. They were on old machine tools.
09:35:33 <DHess_US> Sort of like the difference between normal LEGO blocks and DUPLO LEGO blocks.
09:42:02 * steve31 puts the Halcyon outside
09:42:15 <Halcyon> No! Bad kiddy
09:42:18 <Halcyon> *kitty
09:42:47 <Halcyon> This is why cats are stupid, disobedient little shits :P
09:44:03 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu1XqzRGT-E
09:44:07 <Halcyon> Ducks are cute though
09:45:19 <rust_collector> they are almost as evil as horses
09:45:59 <Halcyon> Horses are evil?
09:46:16 <rust_collector> yep
09:46:27 <Halcyon> I want an Otter
09:46:32 <Halcyon> But we don't have them here :(
09:46:40 <rust_collector> that is why you want one
09:46:52 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5-VEpErs4
09:46:54 <Halcyon> Look at them!
09:46:57 <Halcyon> Super cute!
10:00:01 <rust_collector> they look like fun,
10:00:08 <rust_collector> until they turn evil
10:00:42 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj4_iAhffzs
10:04:04 * steve31 makes a coffee
10:06:44 Quit: steve31 ([email protected]) Quit: This user has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
10:07:51 <rust_collector> Hmm, who makes the giant lego? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPNx2cz0LlU
10:15:19 <steve30> I might go out somewhere this morning
10:18:01 <Halcyon> Where you going Steve?
10:18:25 <steve30> Just out somewhere. Don't know really
10:35:07 <steve30> The curry we had for tea was nice. I had a chicken jalfrezi
10:40:02 Quit: kuon ([email protected]) Connection closed
10:40:12 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:48:14 <coppice_> Halcyon: ducks are better than cute. they are very tasty
10:50:53 * T3sl4 stabs his blades into Halcyon
10:53:27 <Halcyon> That's true, duck is delicious
10:53:46 <steve30> i haven't had duck for a while
10:54:26 <Halcyon> Neither have I
10:54:26 <coppice_> I used to have it most weeks in HK, but its much less available in the UK
10:54:46 <Halcyon> I love it with hoisin sauce and those asian pancakes
10:54:47 <Halcyon> Nom
10:55:12 <coppice_> people in Europe ruin that by serving the meat
11:01:30 * steve30 hugs Halcyon
11:01:36 <Halcyon> Aw *cuddles*
11:02:20 * Halcyon licks Steve
11:04:27 <steve30> :p
11:05:29 * T3sl4 pats steve30 on the head
11:09:55 <DHess_US> I had that LEGO bulldozer kit. The tracks were the best things ever.
11:11:40 <rust_collector> I have lots of those tracks. I think I bought them as spares. I never had a kit that used them
11:12:44 <rust_collector> My first proper lego technic kit was the 8848. It is somewhere in the attic
11:13:58 <DHess_US> There was an auxilary kit for adding motors to the bulldozer also.
11:14:39 <DHess_US> The bulldozer kit came with a couple spare track pieces. They were pretty fragile.
11:15:12 <DHess_US> I'd use the track pieces on the medium and large gears to make Bigfoot wheels.
11:15:55 <DHess_US> Lots of fun on a smooth floor because they would slide so much.
11:16:14 <DHess_US> Like a sprint car in dirt.
11:24:34 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Connection closed
11:24:47 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:26:53 Nick: Halcyon is now known as Halcyon1
11:28:02 <steve30> i really should go out, but i want to go to bed instead
11:29:18 <T3sl4> put your bed outside
11:30:14 <steve30> nah, inside is more cosy
11:33:11 <DHess_US> I see a solution for you with an application of high explosives.
11:34:15 <DHess_US> Why do ducks have webbed feet?
11:34:30 <T3sl4> because they swim through a lot of spiders
11:34:39 <DHess_US> No, to stamp out forest fires.
11:34:46 <DHess_US> Why do elephants wear tennis shoes?
11:35:25 <T3sl4> them some big shoes
11:35:33 <DHess_US> To stamp out flaming ducks.
11:35:43 <DHess_US> How do you get down off of an elephant?
11:35:59 <steve30> jump?
11:35:59 <T3sl4> wait for it to burn away?
11:36:07 <DHess_US> No silly, you get down off of a duck.
11:36:35 <steve30> you mean I can't make an elephant down duvet?
11:36:50 <DHess_US> At least I know steve30 got it.
11:36:55 <coppice_> eider thought that one was obvious
11:37:02 <DHess_US> And coppice_
11:37:29 * T3sl4 shrugs, leans back against his fluffy elephant ash pillow
11:37:55 <DHess_US> I suspect a majority of people don't know down from down.
11:38:07 <coppice_> don't bolster this gag any more
11:38:33 <T3sl4> yeah, holster it
11:39:55 <DHess_US> Sure, this 24GB video download from YouTube will succeed. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can ...
11:40:16 <T3sl4> the little modem that could
11:46:39 <T3sl4> Halcyon1: https://i.imgur.com/zGJ4ZxU.jpg *he
11:49:04 <steve30> hehe
12:02:24 <desu> so
12:02:30 <T3sl4> what
12:02:48 <desu> also ty for the answer yesterday, i fell asleep.
12:03:24 <T3sl4> heh, cheers
12:03:33 <desu> so if i have a 500pf capacitor across c1 and c2 and a 1.5k across r1 and ground
12:03:40 <desu> center frequency would be ~10MHZ?
12:03:44 <desu> do i understand this right
12:03:50 <desu> i am still very new to electronics.
12:04:02 <Halcyon1> Hah
12:04:07 Nick: Halcyon1 is now known as Halcyon
12:04:10 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Changing hosts
12:04:10 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
12:04:27 <Halcyon> Don't mind if I do T3sl4
12:05:43 <T3sl4> see note 2, they want larger resistors than that
12:05:50 <T3sl4> try 3k and 1nF?
12:06:10 <desu> oh
12:06:16 <desu> why list 1.5k in the diagram then?
12:06:34 <desu> yeah heh
12:06:37 <T3sl4> the Vcc=3 (fig13) plot?
12:06:40 <desu> i only have 500pf capacitors atm
12:07:00 <T3sl4> use two in parallel :P
12:07:26 <desu> o
12:07:26 <T3sl4> er, wait
12:07:45 <T3sl4> less C and more R, duh
12:08:07 <T3sl4> but i dont see any curves crossing 500pF and 10MHz with low resistances
12:09:21 <desu> Vcc=4.5
12:09:31 <desu> fig 11
12:09:59 <T3sl4> so i would think you'd need more like... 6.8k?
12:15:16 <desu> ok i'll try uh 1nf + 3k
12:15:19 <desu> give me a sec
12:58:34 <Ampera> DHess_US, reading up a bit more, starting to make a bit more sense. Yeah it's not NEMA 2, it's just that since it predates NEMA, there were differing standards for blade orientation
12:58:42 <Ampera> and that T shape allowed either
13:00:08 <Halcyon> I can't believe you guys are still talking about sockets
13:03:09 <Ampera> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Hubbell_1904_plug_and_receptacle.JPG
13:03:10 <Ampera> like this
13:03:21 <Ampera> shut up Halcyon, you talk about being gay all the time and we're fine with that
13:03:55 <Halcyon> How can I not when I'm surrounded by queers
13:04:01 <Halcyon> Even T3sl4 is questionable
13:04:01 <Halcyon> :P
13:05:18 <Ampera> I burned things today
13:05:33 <Halcyon> What did you burn?
13:05:39 <Ampera> combustibles
13:05:51 <Ampera> had a firepit
13:05:55 <Ampera> I also held my first gun today
13:06:07 <Halcyon> Ah nice
13:06:14 <Halcyon> I like fire
13:06:21 <Halcyon> I could stare into it for hours
13:06:35 <Ampera> I think it was a .32 Colt revolver
13:07:01 <Ampera> was helping my aunt/uncle clean out his dad's old house, and found it on a dresser
13:07:44 <Ampera> neat regardless, when I turn 18 I'm gonna look into going to a shooting range
13:08:07 <Halcyon> I like finding random things during clean up
13:10:30 <Ampera> like guns
13:11:14 <Ampera> ?
13:11:24 <Halcyon> Meh, I don't really care for guns
13:11:30 <Halcyon> Electronics are better
13:13:10 <Ampera> I like guns.
13:13:15 <Ampera> I also like pain and death.
13:13:22 <Ampera> I think of it all the time.
13:17:26 <Ampera> What about you Halcyon?
13:24:05 <Halcyon> Nom, steak sammich with HP sauce
13:24:45 <Halcyon> Do you guys have that over there?
13:24:51 <Halcyon> It's UK thing
13:31:21 <Stiff> made by heinz now?
13:31:28 <Halcyon> Yu
13:31:29 <Halcyon> p
13:31:40 <Halcyon> I'm not a huge fan of BBQ sauce, but I like HP
13:31:44 <Stiff> haven't had it for years
13:32:06 <Stiff> yeah im the same, might have to get a bottle
13:32:16 <Stiff> making hamburgers atm for tonight
13:32:21 <Ampera> no response, Halcyon?
13:32:31 <Ampera> also I preffer dell sauce
13:32:32 <Halcyon> I answered :) I like steak sammiches
13:32:37 <Halcyon> So I went and made one :)
13:32:49 <Ampera> steak sandwiches isn't pain nor death
13:33:00 <Stiff> Ampera has a dark side
13:33:01 <Halcyon> I thought you were asking what I liked
13:33:05 <Halcyon> No I don't like either of those things
13:33:15 <Ampera> :/
13:33:19 <Ampera> Stiff, side?
13:33:28 <Stiff> whole?
13:33:33 <Ampera> mmmm holes
13:34:22 <Halcyon> I like holes
13:34:35 <Ampera> In you?
13:34:47 <Halcyon> Nope
13:34:51 <Ampera> :/
13:35:22 <Stiff> Ampera, I went down the range this morning
13:35:29 <Stiff> got a new scope for my .204
13:35:39 <Stiff> sighted in, wasted about $80
13:35:48 <Ampera> .204 that's small
13:36:10 <Ampera> I've never operated a death stick
13:36:21 <Ampera> Halcyon, I saw a glass frying pan today
13:36:34 <Stiff> small?
13:36:36 <Stiff> 3500 fps
13:36:42 <Stiff> VERY accurtate
13:37:05 <Ampera> small
13:38:08 <Halcyon> Really?
13:38:15 <Stiff> ive dropped more roos with this beauty than my .223 and .308
13:38:17 <Halcyon> That's odd, wouldn't it crack/melt?
13:38:58 <Ampera> Halcyon, Pyrex
13:39:06 <Ampera> Corning Visionware, was real popular in the 80's
13:39:14 <Ampera> I've never used it, but apparently it sticks like crazy
13:39:19 <Ampera> which doesn't surprise me
13:40:03 <Halcyon> Yeh I would imagine it would
13:40:09 <Halcyon> I have cast iron pans
13:40:10 <Stiff> yeah, not a great idea
13:40:22 <Stiff> toughened pyrax doesn't like cold hot too quick either
13:40:23 <Halcyon> Heavy, but they last forever and no need for Teflon or anything like that
13:40:25 <Ampera> Although I wonder if you couldn't season it like a cast iron pan
13:40:40 <Ampera> Stiff, there's two different types of Pyrex
13:41:09 <Ampera> /real/ Pyrex, which is sodium borosciliate, and post-corning american pyrex which is tempered soda-lime glass
13:41:52 <Stiff> i've used pyrex a bit reglazing fire places
13:42:00 <Stiff> bloody dear $700 m2
13:42:33 <Halcyon> Mmm fire
13:42:48 <Stiff> love a good fire
13:46:50 <Stiff> https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/z3-4-12x50-c20050403/z3-4-12x50-l-brx-p5006171
13:47:00 <Stiff> my new scope in 4A version
13:49:06 <Ampera> Halcyon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visions_(cookware) this stuff
13:50:17 <Ampera> huh they still sell it, maybe I'll have to try getting a pan
13:50:32 <Ampera> I'd at least use it once for eggs, just to say I own a glass frying pan
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13:51:48 <Stiff> cant beat cast iron but
13:52:08 <Halcyon> Oh yeh I've seen glass pots like that
13:55:45 <DHess_US> Ampera, the horizontal blades usually indicate a 240VAC design. That NEMA 2 plug you found was an exception but like I said, it was a different (larger) size.
13:56:08 <DHess_US> So there would have been no confusion. It would not fit at all into any of the 120V sockets.
13:56:46 <Ampera> DHess_US, they do now, but the point was they didn't used to
13:57:02 <Ampera> and hubbell's early designs showed that it did have tandem prongs
13:57:25 <Ampera> That's the only thing I can think of that adequately makes sense for that plug design, and if you can think of something better, let me know
13:59:00 <DHess_US> Oh, I don't know about the earlier stuff. I'm just saying that the NEMA 2-30 plug you identified which was an earlier standard did not have that problem.
13:59:17 <Ampera> 2-30?
13:59:25 <Ampera> I was talking about 2-15
13:59:31 <DHess_US> It would only fit into 240V sockets which were physically larger than NEMA-1 or NEMA 5 120 volt sockets.
13:59:43 <Ampera> but what about NEMA 2-15
14:00:33 <DHess_US> NEMA 2-15 would only fit into NEMA 240 volt sockets with those dual horizontal spades. I don't know about earlier non-NEMA sockets.
14:00:38 <Ampera> Actually looking at pictures NEMA 2-15P has the same prong size as NEMA 1-15
14:00:48 <Ampera> but my point was to find a point for the dual T socket type
14:00:53 <Ampera> as I want to know why it exists
14:01:13 <Ampera> and to fit NEMA 2-15P was my original guess, but that style was also previously used for 120V applications before NEMA standardized everything
14:01:13 <DHess_US> And NEMA 2-15 and 2-20 probably had the larger spades anyway.
14:01:22 <Ampera> NEMA 2-15 doesn't
14:01:28 <Ampera> look at pictures, lemme get one
14:01:55 <DHess_US> Earlier you were talking about NEMA 1-20
14:02:16 <Ampera> https://partimages.globalspec.com/05/1455/1336455_large.png
14:02:28 <Ampera> Yes because I was wondering if it was a NEMA 1-20R
14:02:34 <DHess_US> I've seen NEMA 2-30. I suspect NEMA 2-15 and NEMA 2-20 were also enlarged.
14:02:43 <Ampera> They were not as much as I can tell
14:03:04 <DHess_US> NEMA 1-20R wasn't larger but that double t thing was for 120 volts.
14:03:28 <Ampera> It looked like a potential reversible NEMA1-20R, because it uses a similar T shape
14:03:31 <Ampera> But why does it exist?
14:03:48 <Ampera> I have like 3 different theories and I don't have hard proof/disproof for any of them
14:03:57 <Ampera> They were installed in houses, I've seen them.
14:04:21 <DHess_US> Yea, if that photo is NEMA 2-15, then I suspect it wouldn't fit into the double-T socket or a NEMA 5-20 which accepts the NEMA 1-20.
14:04:21 <Ampera> but why were they installed over something like NEMA 1-15 or 5-15
14:04:53 <DHess_US> Because none of the NEMA parts existed before 1940
14:05:09 <Ampera> It might not, the pitch might not be correct, but I'm still wondering why it exists, and the most viable idea I can think of is that it's intended to fit pre-NEMA tandem/serial prong plugs
14:05:22 <Ampera> but these were installed into the 1960's
14:05:38 <DHess_US> In 1940, NEMA standardized a bunch of old plugs and sockets with NEMA designations and came up with some new ones.
14:05:42 <Ampera> way past the point things got standardized
14:05:50 <DHess_US> That doesn't mean the old ones ceased to exist.
14:05:55 <Ampera> but what standard that's not NEMA 1-15P did that one fit
14:06:08 <Ampera> but which one was it
14:06:14 <DHess_US> Which one was what?
14:06:32 <Ampera> Which plug that was not NEMA 1-15P fit into a double T outlet
14:06:46 <Ampera> That is the entire thing I am trying to figure out
14:07:23 <DHess_US> Oh, I see. NEMA 2-15 has no socket. Might be NEMA 6-15
14:08:20 <Ampera> but 6-15 describes a grounded tandem prong outlet/recepticle for 240V
14:08:59 <Ampera> That's why I posted that picture of the Hubell drawing, as it looked like that
14:09:09 <DHess_US> So what? So does NEMA 5-15R.
14:09:39 <DHess_US> Yet 5-15R accepts t-15P (3 wire) and 1-15P (the old two wire)
14:09:39 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hubbell_Tandem_cap_base.JPG
14:10:08 <DHess_US> So 6-15R could do the same for 6-15P and 2-15P.
14:10:35 <Ampera> Actually let me look into that, but also look what I poseted
14:10:37 <Ampera> *posted
14:10:53 <DHess_US> Makes it look like it was 120 instead of 240
14:11:22 <Ampera> You might be onto something, but I think my idea of it being for tandem hubbell plugs is likely the right one
14:11:55 <Ampera> since the timing and unreasonability of having a 240V outlet not only in a residential zone, but also accepting 120V plugs
14:12:41 <Ampera> https://www.urbanremainschicago.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/e4d64343b1bc593f1c5348fe05efa4a6/h/u/hub_4_2.jpg
14:12:43 <Ampera> and that proves it
14:14:41 <Ampera> https://www.plugsocketmuseum.nl/NorthAm2.html
14:14:44 <Ampera> this explains it
15:11:56 * T3sl4 proves Ampera mathematically
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16:31:23 * Halcyon stretches
16:31:26 <Halcyon> That was a good nap
16:31:51 <Halcyon> Although I had a dream that my car got broken into in some shady place
16:32:14 <Halcyon> Ampera, I linked you to that page hours ago!
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16:46:05 <desu> opamps are kinda confusing
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