#eevblog - 2019-01-01 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2019-01-01

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« 2018-12-31 2019-01-02 »
00:00 <Ampera> currently compiling release candidates for the film I've been editing. DaVinci Resolve got really weird and completely cut off some sound effects in the audacity soundtrack
00:41 <Ampera> so I'm using ffmpeg to just slap them together instead of relying on resolve, and this way I can also repackage as mp4 instead of mov, although I'm not sure if they are the same container format
00:42 <Ampera> who knows
02:03 <Ampera> mmm, fast upload, I can get all of these onto google drive in no time.
13:32 Join: steve3000 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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07:56 Quit: MrMobodies ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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16:47 Join: mrpackethead ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:22 <mrpackethead> head full of packets
17:27 <mrpackethead> thats a new one.
18:00 <rust_collector> time for a little lobotomy
19:23 Quit: flewkey ([email protected]) Changing hosts
19:23 Join: flewkey ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:57 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:57 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
08:07 <ThunderSqueak> and awake o.o
08:12 <ThunderSqueak> got a whole 3 hours
08:25 <rust_collector> happy happy
09:47 <ThunderSqueak> nah, had insomnia this entire last month
10:06 <ThunderSqueak> between the earthquakes and the 80mph winds... surprised I got any sleep
24:13 <ThunderSqueak> ooh, new orville is out
27:23 * T3sl4 hugs ThunderSqueak
27:28 <T3sl4> woo, slight sleep
28:13 <ThunderSqueak> T3sl4, yeah, sort of a bad time for me this last month, after I graduate I am SO moving
30:36 <T3sl4> i'm sure jeri can suggest some nice places :P
32:27 <ThunderSqueak> so can I, lived all over the place :P
32:53 <T3sl4> not sure why that comes to mind, tbh
35:38 <MrMobodies> I remember a thread
35:52 <T3sl4> have you cottoned onto something?
36:02 <ThunderSqueak> tho I could ask her ?
36:03 <MrMobodies> about someone said that they are studying and have to move so they have to sell their things
36:09 <MrMobodies> or it gets left at their parents house
37:21 <MrMobodies> oh it was this,
37:22 <MrMobodies> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/selling-my-lab-and-trying-to-avoid-ebay-sydney-australia/
37:33 <MrMobodies> oh different name sorry.
41:24 <T3sl4> about as far as possible from alaska :P
41:48 <rust_collector> NZ?
42:08 <rust_collector> looks like a nice place
42:25 <T3sl4> not as nice to be a sheep
42:26 <ThunderSqueak> oddly, I know a lot of people in NZ
42:42 <ThunderSqueak> lots of people here move between NZ and alaska
42:51 <T3sl4> heh, neat
43:40 <MrMobodies> not nice to be a sheep? Anything to do with slaughter houses?
45:23 <ThunderSqueak> the people I used to hang with were geologists from NZ, they came to AK to find oil
45:44 <rust_collector> I think it has more to do with drunk horny people
45:51 <MrMobodies> for oil companies?
45:58 <ThunderSqueak> yes
46:08 <ThunderSqueak> I used to build the workstations they used
46:10 <coppice_> not everything from NZ is a sheep. they export a lot of deer too
46:16 <MrMobodies> I know there is oil in Guyana
46:27 <ThunderSqueak> some of those workstations would be upwards of 40k usd
46:34 <coppice_> there is oil by the hob in our kitchen
46:54 <ThunderSqueak> the hob is such a strange word
46:59 <ThunderSqueak> not one you hear here
47:11 <coppice_> you people are just de ranged
47:18 <ThunderSqueak> nah
47:37 <rust_collector> I remember getting yelled at by some customer service guy from dell, because I said I had a problem with my laptop
47:47 <T3sl4> coppice_: you're off the hob
47:53 <rust_collector> IT IS A MOBILE WORKSTATION!!!
48:06 <rust_collector> he was really pissed off about that
48:24 * ThunderSqueak has a 32core workstation upstairs
49:10 <ThunderSqueak> not sure why, but I am severely hungry this morning
49:13 <MrMobodies> I once had a Dell Precision
49:21 <MrMobodies> in was the silver one with the graphics card
49:27 <rust_collector> yep
49:28 <MrMobodies> I argued with them on the phone
49:39 <MrMobodies> it was making a squeeling sound
49:41 <MrMobodies> in sleep as well
49:59 <MrMobodies> I said fair enough promise me that the next one won't do that. and they refunded me.
50:12 <MrMobodies> they sent someone to replace the board but I said noi
50:16 <T3sl4> see, you need to take the piglets out of it first
50:22 <rust_collector> I really did like that thing, until the graphics card gave up
50:35 <MrMobodies> I brought a Lenovo W700 after that
50:37 <MrMobodies> still works
50:40 <MrMobodies> Quadro 3700m
50:44 <MrMobodies> 40c temperature
50:51 <MrMobodies> vents on all sides
50:57 <rust_collector> heh, the dell got really hot
52:04 <MrMobodies> Those tine ones
52:11 <ThunderSqueak> I have about a dozen laptops in the closet
52:11 <T3sl4> my old HP "workstation" runs its GPU in the 80C range when it's going good, or a lot more if the heat pipe isn't working well (which happened once)
52:31 <ThunderSqueak> the neatest one is an old panasonic tough book, military issue
52:34 <ThunderSqueak> it is armored
52:43 <MrMobodies> I have seen them, ruggedy
52:49 <ThunderSqueak> you could run over it with a tank and it wouldnt break
52:53 <T3sl4> those are well renouned
53:12 <ThunderSqueak> was also expensive when I got it :P
53:17 <rust_collector> now, run over it with a large container stacker...
53:20 <ThunderSqueak> but I used to travel into the bush with it
53:42 * T3sl4 sips tea
53:46 <MrMobodies> That will last forever.
53:58 <ThunderSqueak> my favorite laptop is still the trs-80 model 100
54:04 <ThunderSqueak> that thing is STILL useful
54:07 <ThunderSqueak> :D
54:13 <T3sl4> ThunderSqueak: but I used to travel into the bush with it <-- we get it you're a lesbian
54:15 <ThunderSqueak> and has a wonderful keyboard
54:31 <MrMobodies> I never seen that one before
54:32 <MrMobodies> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100
54:35 <MrMobodies> It looks really nice
54:46 <ThunderSqueak> T3sl4, well... https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/371/395/73c.jpg
54:55 * ThunderSqueak sips tea.
55:26 <T3sl4> :D
55:50 <ThunderSqueak> MrMobodies, yeah, I have a REX in mine, which is basically a flash cart. it also has a full 32kb ram and I have the modem for it
56:20 <MrMobodies> I got Psion LZ. I have been using it as a bedside alarm since 2004
56:26 <MrMobodies> some of tkey have worn off
56:36 <ThunderSqueak> one of my next videos will be repairing an atari portfolio
56:37 <MrMobodies> Modem?
56:40 <MrMobodies> thats good
56:52 <ThunderSqueak> I also have a 200lx
57:02 <MrMobodies> I like the chunck keys
57:33 <MrMobodies> That has a loud of display drivers 10?
57:45 <MrMobodies> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/TRS-80_Model-100_Inside.jpg
58:29 <ThunderSqueak> ?? not sure I understand that question
58:52 <MrMobodies> 10 chips on the back of the display
58:56 <MrMobodies> right in photo
59:40 <ThunderSqueak> oh lode
59:42 <ThunderSqueak> load
59:44 <ThunderSqueak> not loud
59:48 <MrMobodies> So typos
59:51 <MrMobodies> sorry typos
59:51 <ThunderSqueak> I was like "loud?"
00:03 <ThunderSqueak> but it has a wonderful keyboard
00:05 <MrMobodies> HD44102CH
00:10 <MrMobodies> yes chunky
00:13 <ThunderSqueak> runs on a few AA batteries
00:14 <MrMobodies> I like those
00:31 <ThunderSqueak> and is easy to program
00:46 <MrMobodies> plenty of screen space
01:05 <ThunderSqueak> it has enouth to do decent word processing
01:08 <ThunderSqueak> enough*
01:36 <ThunderSqueak> I also love the look people give me when I go to a coffee shop and use it to do work
02:05 <coppice_> Ah, the good old days when LCD drivers came in packages
02:16 <rust_collector> arrrgh, word processing
02:33 <ThunderSqueak> or writing code
02:34 <T3sl4> was LaTeX ever compiled for MS-DOS
02:43 <ThunderSqueak> the data is easy to transfer to a modern computer
02:44 <coppice_> The TRS80 Model 100 was the journalist's dream machine in the 80s
02:55 <T3sl4> coppice_: they still do, it's called "glass"
03:38 <coppice_> T3sl4: its not really a package when they are stuck on the surface
05:05 <ThunderSqueak> anyway, the trs80 model 100 is a great computer, even today
05:18 <MrMobodies> 20 hours battery life
05:24 <MrMobodies> plenty
05:38 <MrMobodies> or even more with the larger capacity
05:52 <T3sl4> i wonder how much worse the computing efficiency is compared to a smart phone
06:14 <MrMobodies> I don't tend to touch things on glass that well
06:17 <rust_collector> 30 000 000 or so
06:53 <MrMobodies> It's alright as a picture framr to hold a picture of something
07:01 <MrMobodies> that I am working on
12:06 Quit: mrpackethead ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
12:29 <MrMobodies> Found on Ebay fo £500
13:00 <MrMobodies> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radio-Shack-TRS-80-MODEL-100-PORTABLE-Vintage-Computer/323593257995
13:20 <MrMobodies> I think there maybe something with the display or cover.
15:19 <MrMobodies> and on Ebay elsewhere in the world; America many of them between $100 to $200 what a British con.
15:45 <T3sl4> that may just be the ceiling reflecting, but it was an unfortunate choice if so
16:06 <MrMobodies> It'll be cheaper paying the customs
16:13 <MrMobodies> if thereis any
16:28 <coppice_> I think that's just a reflection. I never figured out if Radio Shag developed that and Kyocera made it, or if Kyocera developed it, and Radio Shag just marketed it
16:48 <MrMobodies> Radio Shag, I like that.
17:30 <MrMobodies> I remember when they were also called Tandy
18:25 <MrMobodies> and they had a non stand ribbon to their printer I think it was with a Tandy 1000
19:50 <coppice_> I think the parent company was Tandy. In some countries the stores were Radio Shack, and in others the stores were Tandy
20:42 <MrMobodies> There use to be one up the road back in the late 1990s
21:00 <MrMobodies> it turned in a charity shop when I came back home.
22:15 <coppice_> Here's some olde worlde charm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radio-Shack-TRS-80-Acoustic-Modem/273627373457
22:47 <MrMobodies> OOoh one o fthose
22:49 <MrMobodies> oops type
22:54 <MrMobodies> you put the phone handsret on it
24:15 <coppice_> "What's a phone handset" I hear some scruffy youth saying
24:31 <T3sl4> my handset has a USB jack on it
25:11 <T3sl4> why would i need to put it anywhere ;)
25:34 <rust_collector> phones... does anyone have a good use for the phoneline sort of modem I have in most of the older laptops?
26:00 <MrMobodies> I have a few around
26:04 <MrMobodies> a multimodem
26:19 <MrMobodies> and some ancient Racal 1.2kbps with lcd and buttons
26:51 <MrMobodies> and lots of old Rockwell 56k ISA modems
26:59 <T3sl4> the phone modem is nearly gone the way of the analog TV tuner
27:20 <ThunderSqueak> you could maybe use them to control a microcontroller based device?
27:21 <MrMobodies> The Winmodems went quicker though
27:31 <rust_collector> I don't even have a phone line in this house
28:02 <MrMobodies> I have two lines, no fttp in my area yet
28:47 <rust_collector> I ripped it all out when I painted the walls. Made nice holes for the cat6
28:57 <MrMobodies> oh cat6
29:26 <MrMobodies> I cabled the house up. Bet when the new people move in, they'll rip out and ask questions later. That's what I experienced to someone else.
29:43 <ThunderSqueak> watching the new orville
29:57 <ThunderSqueak> entire episode, is about someone who is going to be going pee
29:59 <ThunderSqueak> <.<
30:11 <ThunderSqueak> its great :D
30:20 <MrMobodies> tv seres
30:32 <MrMobodies> Maybe I'll take a look
30:44 <MrMobodies> I don't have a tv tuner anymore
30:58 <MrMobodies> It's on Amazon prime
31:08 <MrMobodies> I am going to give it a go.
31:29 <ThunderSqueak> its campy like the original series star trek
31:43 <ThunderSqueak> but, I am enjoying it
31:55 <ThunderSqueak> gets more serious as the series continues
32:33 <MrMobodies> nice, when I get back later
32:41 <MrMobodies> I'll start seeing it
33:43 <MrMobodies> I got my converters today from Australia
33:49 <ThunderSqueak> you can also watch it on hulu
33:53 <MrMobodies> Thanks to Flyingbean
33:59 <MrMobodies> oh yes Hulu
34:18 <MrMobodies> hey all work fortunately
35:17 <MrMobodies> Wonderful they now support Paypal
35:33 <DHess_US> Windows 10 test system finally crashed while underclocked. Now I have HTdisabled and running full speed to see if that changes anything.
35:47 <DHess_US> I'm beginning not to like Intel hardware.
37:22 <MrMobodies> I don't see any spammy toolbars yet, I'll give Hulu a try.
38:22 <MrMobodies> I like my thing ultra stable
38:35 <MrMobodies> or I get impatient.
39:10 <MrMobodies> I must be the one fault not the system
39:29 <T3sl4> a new nilered \o/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoOyaDWIoMA
41:54 <MrMobodies> 0:42 into the video fascinating.
42:17 <T3sl4> that was a nice corrosion sequence, yeah
43:10 <T3sl4> hence why i made this from it: https://i.imgur.com/YF7DEdW.mp4
07:17 Join: mrpackethead ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:54 <mrpackethead> MrMobodies, you and I share the first same name
11:52 <T3sl4> heh
12:06 <ThunderSqueak> Mr
12:07 <ThunderSqueak> ?
31:03 <mrpackethead> In deed.
31:17 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, any guess's as to why i want some closely matched Resistors
32:05 <rust_collector> I like the small blue ones. they all look the same to me
32:43 <T3sl4> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
32:59 <mrpackethead> Is that a drone?
51:19 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/9q61pcU.png
53:15 <DHess_US> My new year's resolution is to learn to set people on fire with my mind.
55:16 <mrpackethead> nice.
55:31 <coppice_> what's wrong with a a flame thrower?
55:59 <mrpackethead> coppice_, were you serious abotu your comments about hot air?
56:49 <ThunderSqueak> DHess_US, oooh that was mine too!
22:42 <IoTPanic> Saw your comment about your windows 10 dev system @DHess_US, you sure it's Intel? And not microsoft? Windows kernel is laughable on modern CPUs
24:53 <IoTPanic> Havent been able to get it to run more than 3 days straight on my Ryzen CPU, windows updates and crashes or has a "hardware issue" and crashes
25:01 <IoTPanic> Both Ryzen CPUs
37:19 Join: DL3CE ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:43 <rust_collector> I would think intel is the one they would actually test things on, but... who knows
51:33 <IoTPanic> I would think that too
52:06 <IoTPanic> Theyre REALLY focusing on Windows for ARM rn
52:23 <rust_collector> I might try that
52:43 <rust_collector> if they made it work on a super crappy tablet
52:56 <IoTPanic> Yes, theyre removing ALL the win32 support garbage
53:37 <IoTPanic> Which removes compatibility for many programs, and everything needs to be recompiled, but it will be way more stable if they do it right
53:42 <IoTPanic> Win32 programs will run in a VM
01:24 <coppice_> In the NT on Alpha days, some of the OS utilties which were carried over from Windows 3.11 were never compiled to Alpha code
07:07 <DHess_US> <coppice_> what's wrong with a a flame thrower?
07:14 <DHess_US> Doesn't work over IP (internet protocol)
07:50 <DHess_US> IoTPanic, I can't rule out an OS or driver problem but the error I was getting before indicated a processor problem.
08:42 <DHess_US> Changing the processor and RAM speed does seem to affect it.
09:33 <DHess_US> If there is a hardware problem and I cannot live with it, then I will replace the motheboard and cpu. I'd like to find a way to get it working even at lower performance.
12:20 <coppice_> mrpackethead: what comments about hot air?
12:46 <mrpackethead> you saying that no engineers ever use Hot Air
13:58 <coppice_> never is extreme, but they aren't used much. most times I see someone dig a hot air machine out from under the dust its to shrink some sleeving
16:29 <coppice_> what is next year like?
21:52 <IoTPanic> I use my hot air gun a lot, but thats because of one part I use a lot
22:04 <coppice_> what part is that?
23:56 <rust_collector> shrink tubing
23:59 <IoTPanic> . Ive been making a lot of one-five offs for use in the field with a customer and the hot air gun just makes it a lot faster to do certain parts. Like SMD elects and RFM95W
24:14 <IoTPanic> And makes it look better
24:20 <IoTPanic> And mPCI-e connectors
24:29 <IoTPanic> omg, couldnt do those by hand. At lease a stack of them
25:17 <coppice_> If I gave those to someone who assembles prototypes all day, I would expect them to use a soldering iron
25:33 <IoTPanic> I do most of it with a soldering iron
25:51 <IoTPanic> But that isnt my job
25:59 <IoTPanic> Im a developer, not an assembler
26:42 <coppice_> A lot of developers who don't work with and learn from people who assemble all day can develop some interesting techniques :)
27:26 <mrpackethead> coppice_, i'd say theres mroe people using them in serious prototype shops than not
27:42 <IoTPanic> Like $8 for 10 PCBs and a bare solder paste stencil. So what youre saying is youd rather have someone use an iron with a mPCI-e connector who has to do 10 of them...? It takes a really long time to fix the hundred shorts
27:56 <coppice_> all surface mount is a struggle to minimise the thermal stresses you leave in the assembly, whichever techniques you use
28:17 <IoTPanic> Ah, I get your point. Its fine for what im doing
28:18 <mrpackethead> I dont' use a hand one much for putting new parts on, but certainly for replacement
28:19 <coppice_> IoTPanic: people who do these things regularly don't leave shorts
28:35 <IoTPanic> Have you seen the spacing on mPCIe connectors?
28:54 <coppice_> duh, no, I've never seen any electronics
29:12 <mrpackethead> coppice_, how do you remove a 100 pin TQFP from a board?
29:12 <IoTPanic> Alright
29:29 <IoTPanic> Id rather have them wave soldered for sure
30:25 <coppice_> mrpackethead: those cute young ladies doing it all day long in Shenzhen use an iron, 4 lines of solder, and one to two minutes of their time,
31:12 <IoTPanic> No, if you think old ladies are still doing it and not robots by now your in the wrong PCB house
31:27 <mrpackethead> keyword: remove
31:29 <IoTPanic> But 100pin TQFP would be a lot easier
31:41 <IoTPanic> And this conversation was specifying making boards
32:14 <coppice_> the conversation is about prototyping, not volume production
32:33 <IoTPanic> So?
32:47 <mrpackethead> for keyword: replace new chip for one that died, for a TQFP, i'd probably use the iron
32:55 <IoTPanic> I have one offs made in china, they are wave soldered
33:12 <coppice_> you seldom use automated assembly for prototypes, or manual assembly for production
33:14 <mrpackethead> are you doing through hole?
33:23 <IoTPanic> You are behind the times then
33:26 <mrpackethead> coppice_, then you are in a backwards hop
33:36 <mrpackethead> we use automated assembly for 95% of our prototypes
33:40 <IoTPanic> Yep
33:41 <IoTPanic> Same
33:49 <IoTPanic> Waiting for some to arrive now
33:56 <mrpackethead> why would you waste your time, doign it manually?
34:09 <IoTPanic> Or the chinese owners of the proto lab?
34:17 <coppice_> I don't. That's what minions are for
34:31 <mrpackethead> ok, but why would you use minions to do it manually
34:40 <mrpackethead> a stencil is like $25
34:41 <coppice_> its quick
35:24 <mrpackethead> so, i have a PNP line that has the vast majority of parts i need on it already
35:28 <IoTPanic> I pay $6 for a cheap stencil good for like 100 uses but used for one
35:58 <coppice_> anyway, the discussion was about hot air gun vs soldering iron, so automated assembly was not part of it
36:08 <mrpackethead> but it morphed.
36:24 <mrpackethead> i think what we have concluded, is there is many ways to skin a cat
36:37 <mrpackethead> IoT, do you use those horrible plastic stencils
36:46 <IoTPanic> NOOO
37:00 <mrpackethead> what kind of stencil in metal is $6?
37:11 <IoTPanic> Let me look, I have one next to me
37:32 <coppice_> mrpackethead: if you keep doing variants, then running new prototypes through a PnP is OK, but few people can avoid a big rejig that makes is very labour intensive and slow
37:57 <mrpackethead> coppice_, bs
38:19 <coppice_> why?
38:52 <mrpackethead> there are increasingly large numbers of people buying PNP lines, for the express purpose of prototyping
39:17 <coppice_> perhaps, but how many are having a smooth time using them?
39:43 <coppice_> there are far more people pushing all assembly to outside shops
39:59 <mrpackethead> coppice_, yup, becuase they 'believe' its hard
40:18 <mrpackethead> the best thing we ever did was bring our low volume/protos in house
40:35 <coppice_> how long does it take you to replace most of your feeders?
41:06 <IoTPanic> The stencils are either stainless steel or aluminum. Im not sure and I dont like that very much. But they work well for one offs. Can get them framed or unframed
41:39 <mrpackethead> oh, if i had to strip them down completly and put new parts on them, and set up all the parts in the compoent database, it coudl take several days i guess.
42:00 <IoTPanic> For $6 they're really good, but would never use them in production.
42:05 <mrpackethead> I have 300 slot positions, across three machines
42:19 <coppice_> well, for most people the only carry over they get from one board to the next is a few common resistors and capacitors
42:19 <mrpackethead> but why would i ever do that?
42:52 <mrpackethead> coppice_, and that assumption is where you and i have a major differnece of opnion
43:17 <coppice_> its not a different of opinion. its a difference in the kinds of work people do
43:54 <mrpackethead> when you take one company, you'll find massive similarity in many of their designs.
44:09 <mrpackethead> or at least one 'team' in one company
44:22 <coppice_> some companies do a lot of similar things. other companies do lots of disparate things
44:46 <mrpackethead> so, you did'tn tell me how you would take the TQFP off the board?
45:16 <coppice_> I did. a soldering iron and 4 lines of solder
46:52 <IoTPanic> Dont pull a pad ;)
47:07 <mrpackethead> so you put more solder on the pins and pads?
47:26 <IoTPanic> A really good amount
47:39 <IoTPanic> Sorry, I will shut up
47:55 <mrpackethead> so how do you get it off the board?
48:14 <mrpackethead> IoTPanic, never assume you know everyhthign.. people sometimes have some great ideas.
48:26 <coppice_> I've had a girl swap a 100 TQFP on a single board over 20 times in a working day while investigating a quirky batch to batch chip issue, without a track being lifted
49:04 <IoTPanic> I mean, coppice is speaking of a common technique
49:11 <IoTPanic> That I use myself
49:42 <mrpackethead> using wick?
49:48 <coppice_> what for?
49:57 <IoTPanic> To remove a 100 TQFP
50:21 <IoTPanic> And no
50:24 <coppice_> what is the wick for? to clean up the board after you lift the chip off?
50:37 <mrpackethead> its not like the solder will stay hot while you get around the rest of it?
51:01 <Ampera> excuse the stupidity, but what's the T in TQFP?
51:02 <coppice_> it will if you are any good at doing it
51:16 <coppice_> Ampera: thin
51:17 <IoTPanic> Stop it, be helpfuil not mean
51:29 <IoTPanic> Heat up one side
51:32 <Ampera> Why not both, IoTPanic?
51:38 <IoTPanic> Quite a bit
52:07 <Ampera> If I had the unfortunate task of removing a thin QFP chip from a board, I would very much use wick, unless I had a hot air gun, which honestly would be the right tool for the job, IMO.
52:08 <IoTPanic> You are trying to lift up one or two sides at a time, you cant have the entire thing at 600 degrees
52:31 <Ampera> because QFPs often have glue sticking them to the board, which can be hard to remove without a hot air gun.
52:41 <coppice_> Ampera: how will you ever get the chip off if you keep soaking up the solder with wick?
52:57 <mrpackethead> Ampera, not mine.
53:20 <Ampera> the general idea would be to remove the solder, instead of adding enough of a liquid metal mass inorder to keep it fluid enough for removal.
53:33 <mrpackethead> coppice_, are you using that CHipQuik stuff
53:34 <coppice_> glue spotted chips are a huge pain these days, as some of the glues melt at a horrendous temperature
53:36 <IoTPanic> I add mass, so one side stays hot
54:01 <IoTPanic> And so more pins heat up
54:02 <Ampera> It wouldn't be an amazing way, but unless you're particularly fast and skillful, something I am definitely not with a 700 degree iron, I'd take that bet first.
54:19 <Ampera> However me and surface mount components of almost any kind is almost garunteed to end in disaster.
54:34 <IoTPanic> How so?
54:41 <IoTPanic> Oh, you and
54:48 <coppice_> I've no idea why anyone would use chipquick.
54:49 <Ampera> yes
55:00 <mrpackethead> the stuff is just horrible
55:04 <Ampera> The few times I've attempted to do anything surface mount, I ususally ended up breaking the entire board.
55:58 <coppice_> Ampera: its definitely an acquired skill. its best to leave it to minions :)
56:08 <IoTPanic> @mrpackethead try and add a ton of solder to one row, so when you heat it up with a iron the entire row gets heated and all the pins lift, then do it to a second side and mechanically lift it slightly to release both sides, then work on the remaining two, its quite easy when you get the hang of it
56:36 <IoTPanic> And you can do it quickly like coppices assistant
56:56 <Ampera> Not only that, my cheapy kit soldering station, nasty chip, lack of any flux nor decent working environment makes trying to do surface mount soldering impossible, and it probably would be in my situation even for someone who did know what they were doing.
57:16 <IoTPanic> Oh yeah, without proper tools it can be hard
57:53 <Ampera> The best thing my dad was ever able to do with my tools was solder a bodge wire onto an ATI Mach64/GX, which made it go from broken to perfectly functioning.
58:12 <Ampera> I was able to patch up the connection when it sort of came loose, but that was a very annoying solder job.
58:17 <coppice_> IoTPanic: that sounds like a high stress solution. most people get all 4 sides molten, with lots of solder to increase the thermal capacity, and lift away the chip. it skilled hands its a lot more reliable that hot air, and no added solder, as its much better at ensuring adequate melting of every single leg
58:19 <mrpackethead> IoTPanic, mmm. i guess it might work
58:54 <IoTPanic> Yep, do coppices explanation, I was trying to make it more beginner friendly
59:12 <mrpackethead> it will give that a go when i next have the need.
00:49 <mrpackethead> thuogh, i've had very little issue with removing parts with air
01:43 <coppice_> hot air is sooooo 1990s
02:22 <mrpackethead> so how would you remove a BGA?
02:42 <Ampera> by paying someone else to do it
02:43 <Ampera> :P
02:57 <mrpackethead> Yeah, thats coppice_s answer
03:20 <Ampera> idk about coppice, it's my answer, I'd hate to try to desolder a BGA package
03:41 <coppice_> BGAs are a whole other issue. Neither hot air nor soldering irons are great for those. getting them off with hot air is straightforward, but putting them back without thermal stresses is a challenge
03:50 <Ampera> if I could, it would actually be quite useful because I have two 939 nForce 4 SLI boards, one that is broken besides the chipset, and one that is fine besides the chipset.
04:23 <mrpackethead> I saw a process that used Vapour Phase for removal of BGAS
04:26 <coppice_> you have to at least use a two sided heating technique for BGAs
04:43 <mrpackethead> the issue is, that you heat *everything*
05:10 <coppice_> I assume vapour phase works if you have a way to work inside the active chamber to lift the part off
05:52 <mrpackethead> it was really quite simple.
06:29 <mrpackethead> they glued a kind of loop on the top of the chip
06:45 <mrpackethead> then its got a string, pulley and weight.
07:02 <mrpackethead> when the solders molten, the weight pulls it off the board
07:07 <mrpackethead> I saw it at some show
07:25 <mrpackethead> thouht it was 'interesting' but not sure how practical it would be
07:26 <coppice_> vapour phase kit is so rare, apart from high volume production lines, that its years since I worked with it
07:43 <mrpackethead> coppice_, we use it lots in our low volume line
08:05 <coppice_> I think the vapour phase system we had in the early 80s had something like that in the chamber for rework
08:20 <coppice_> mrpackethead: you using it doesn't stop it being rare
08:35 <mrpackethead> its low cost entry.
08:48 <mrpackethead> 2000 Euros buys you one if you want one.
09:22 <mrpackethead> I like it for two reasons;
09:37 <mrpackethead> it doe'stn take an hour to be ready to go.
09:46 <mrpackethead> which when you want to do one board is good.
10:06 <mrpackethead> i dont' need to temp profile boards and fart around with all that
10:22 <coppice_> I think it should be more widely used for small volumes. It was very effective when it was the only technique being used for SMD. Then SMD moved from the military into mass market stuff, and suddenly IR was considered the way to go. The resurgence of high volume vapour phase suggests that was wrong, so we might see a resurgence of small volume vapour phase too
10:23 <mrpackethead> and when i have a real mix up of big and small parts on a board, it just bevcomes really simple
11:02 <mrpackethead> i have a board, i jsut cant' do in the oven,
11:31 <Halcyon> Morning all
11:32 <mrpackethead> its got 0402's, QFN's some mid sized transistors and a big fat inductor
11:46 <coppice_> you had problems with a crappy commerical vapour phase machine, didn't you? did you end up making your own system?
12:04 <mrpackethead> coppice_, yup the junk that i bought was just terrible
12:12 <mrpackethead> the 'concept' was great.
12:18 <mrpackethead> his implementation was just poor
12:25 <mrpackethead> electrically unsafe.
12:33 <mrpackethead> very badly built.
13:01 <coppice_> things like that are obviously holding it back. People like NeoDen need to offer reasonably well throught out machines at reasonable prices
13:11 <mrpackethead> the biggest problem i have now with my tanks, is keeping them clean
13:44 <mrpackethead> I really like GC10 paste, and it gives me great results, easy to use
14:01 <coppice_> Its just a very hot sous vide tank :)
14:02 <mrpackethead> but its got something in the flux that is just a nightmare to clean
14:31 <mrpackethead> leaves a dark brown residue on all the surfaces that is hard work
14:41 <mrpackethead> forutnatly it does not disolve in the galden.
15:03 <mrpackethead> coppice_, in deed. i kind of thinkg of it more like a deep fryer.
15:06 <coppice_> I assume it does dissolve a bit, or it wouldn't leave a mess in the tank
15:07 <mrpackethead> but similar!
15:27 <mrpackethead> it ends up on the tank walls
15:38 <mrpackethead> the bottom of the tank is clean.
15:40 <mrpackethead> :-)
15:45 <mrpackethead> (mostly)
15:57 <mrpackethead> I found that dry cleaning fluid cleans it
16:10 <coppice_> I guess its now 35 years since I actually used a vapour phase machine
16:31 <mrpackethead> so you would have been using them when they were still using the nasty fluids.
16:35 <coppice_> ceramic SMD parts on ceramic PCBs :)
18:41 <mrpackethead> http://www.torenko.com/pdf/Todays-Vapor-Phase-Soldering-Tech-Paper.pdf
18:50 <mrpackethead> this was the paper that i used to get started with
18:50 <coppice_> I really can't remember anything about the fluids. The machine was very expensive and complex, and kept its users well clear of most things. There was a technician who managed the machine, to they dealt with all the messy stuff
19:20 <mrpackethead> I think they used CFC's
19:43 <mrpackethead> which these days would be considerd very uncool
19:55 <mrpackethead> the new 'galden' stuff is highly inert
20:22 <mrpackethead> ( unless you super heat it to 450C, which you'd need to do under pressure )
20:42 <mrpackethead> It does absorb a bit of water
20:50 <coppice_> oh, yes, we used lots of those in the 80s. the prototyping shops had big open tanks of CFC cleaning fluid to wash off boards after working on them, and those things evaporated at a considerable rate
21:17 <mrpackethead> the galden is quite good from a loss point of view
21:23 <mrpackethead> i don't loose much at all.
21:29 <coppice_> it needs to be. its costly
21:43 <mrpackethead> yeah, 7kg was something like $1300USD
22:05 <mrpackethead> we worked it out that we were only loosing a few cents per panel
22:11 <coppice_> I think that discourages a lot of people, because they imagine they will need to buy lots of it
22:38 <mrpackethead> my 'big' tanks have about 350mL in them
22:49 <mrpackethead> thats big enough to put a 400x600mm panel in them
23:05 <coppice_> oh, you'll be doing lead free, so that will add its own complexity to what we did in the 80s
23:12 <mrpackethead> 7kg = 1 US gallon.
23:39 <mrpackethead> sorry about the use of units there.
24:03 <coppice_> that's quite dense
25:13 <mrpackethead> i seriouslyu thinkg it would be a great DIY solution
25:20 <mrpackethead> that would give people amazing results
25:40 <mrpackethead> if you restricted yourself to say a 200x200m footprint
25:52 <mrpackethead> you could probalby get away with 100ml or less.
26:32 <mrpackethead> i have 3mm of fluid in the bottom of my tanks
26:34 <mrpackethead> that is 'full'
28:59 <mrpackethead> that would be 120ml
29:22 <mrpackethead> oh, its only 1.5 hours till some arbitory time when people go dumb
30:00 <mrpackethead> the people back home are all asleep cause they went dumb 10.54 hours ago
30:04 <coppice_> mrpackethead: didn't that happen a hours ago for you?
30:16 <mrpackethead> coppice_, i'm in London
30:23 <coppice_> poor you
30:47 <mrpackethead> I was in spain yesterday
30:50 <mrpackethead> that was poor me.
30:57 <mrpackethead> meh, the wife wanted to go.
31:04 <mrpackethead> they make good coffee though
31:05 <coppice_> holiday?
31:12 <mrpackethead> Yes, 5 weeks
31:21 <coppice_> ooh, a rich man
31:22 <mrpackethead> next week going to iceland.
31:37 <Ampera> iceland is nice, or at least the 30 minutes I was in the airport for was nice.
31:44 <mrpackethead> then to San Fran/Bay area, a short stop in Hawaii
31:52 <mrpackethead> and then home about the 15th
32:07 <Ampera> good on you, I don't have that kind of money.
32:10 <coppice_> I've been to SF lots of times. Only to the airport, though :)
32:24 <mrpackethead> Ampera, its amazing what you can do to save $$$
32:38 <mrpackethead> our son lives in london. so its not costing us anythign to be here.
32:42 <mrpackethead> ( other than gin )
32:56 <Ampera> I don't disagree, I'm just saying, even if you keep the budget tight, and it's only two people, air fare isn't cheap.
33:05 <mrpackethead> super cheap airfares were found on skyscanner
33:23 <mrpackethead> London - Rejkivik was 55 UKP
33:25 <Ampera> even cheap intercontinental isn't cheap.
33:25 <coppice_> did you get one of those weird cheap round the world deals?
33:41 <mrpackethead> coppice_, no.. i peiced it all togehter
34:02 <Ampera> London and Keflavik aren't far, and we can get similar tickets during off times from Boston Logon or so, but that's just the air fare.
34:18 <mrpackethead> Wellington-vancouver-london-iceland-sanfrancisco-hawaii-sydney-wellington
34:25 <Ampera> I imagine you also have to pay for luggage, the load of fees, potentially tax, coaching and lodging when you get there and come back.
34:32 <mrpackethead> that cost me me about $1700NZD
34:38 <Ampera> that's a grand tour and a half.
34:43 <Ampera> Per ticket or for two people?
34:43 <mrpackethead> ( each )
35:00 <Ampera> Yeah, that's about right, but imagine a family of four like mine doing that.
35:05 <Ampera> and that's just air fare.
35:08 <mrpackethead> $1700NZD = 1143 USD
35:22 <Ampera> yeah, 4.4k isn't pocket money for us.
35:41 <mrpackethead> Ampera, see i did'tn pay someone to remove my TQFP;s
35:43 <Ampera> and does that include all the plethora of additional charges for air fair?
35:45 <mrpackethead> i did it myself
35:52 <Ampera> I said BGAs.
35:53 <mrpackethead> Ampera, tahts what i paid.
36:16 <mrpackethead> Ampera, our kids have all grown up
36:19 <coppice_> wifey is off on Thursday to see her mum for a couple of months. That's basically a flight cost only trip
36:37 <mrpackethead> I get how much it costs to have a family
36:42 <Ampera> regardless, there's local transportation, lodging, food, entertainment
36:51 <Ampera> brb
36:53 <mrpackethead> well, you eat food were ever you go
37:00 <mrpackethead> so, if you are at home or away it costs.
37:21 <mrpackethead> and its MUCH cheaper in the UK, USA, Europe than it is in NZ
37:34 <mrpackethead> weekly pass on the London Metro is 22 quid
37:43 <coppice_> Ampera: provide entertainment, rather than consuming it, and you could pay for the whole trip
37:54 <mrpackethead> entertainment.. I have IRC client and free wifi
38:06 <mrpackethead> and the odd video from Dave.
38:35 <mrpackethead> skycanner.com is awesome
39:01 <mrpackethead> and dont' book airfares untill the optim booking window is is 8-5 weeks out from the flight time
39:15 <mrpackethead> unless its holiday weeks
39:20 <Ampera> I'm just saying, there's costs.
39:26 <mrpackethead> yup, there is.
39:34 <Ampera> 4.4k USD isn't cheap, as previously mentioned.
39:42 <mrpackethead> and once you have sent your kids away
39:54 <mrpackethead> you'll have some spare coins!
39:58 <coppice_> mrpackethead: or student travel week. that REALLY drives up prices on routes like Singapore or HK to the UK
40:15 <Ampera> Anyways, we just got a new cat a little bit ago (1-2 days), and he seems to be fitting in quite well now.
40:23 <mrpackethead> nice.
40:28 <rust_collector> I used to have a lot of work at the airports up here, and I had fun just asking if they had any random cheap flights. I could have gone almost anywhere, for pretty much nothing. But otoh, you never know if you are getting home again
40:35 <Ampera> His name might interest some, I've dubbed him Fermi.
41:01 <mrpackethead> my cats name is dotty.
41:11 <coppice_> friends who work for Cathay travel for next to nothing, especially if they aren't too choosey about when they go
41:21 <mrpackethead> she has stripes.
41:27 <mrpackethead> dont' ask me, ask the grandkids.
41:35 <mrpackethead> The grandkids get to name everything.
41:48 <coppice_> are you sure that's not a small zebra?
42:17 <mrpackethead> Phoenix and Zac gave all the machines in the factory names. becuae they say giving them numbers was dumb
42:23 <rust_collector> our cats are named bølla, and hufsa, translates to "the bully" and "the groke" (from the moomin thing)
42:26 <mrpackethead> PNP1 was unacceptab
42:50 <Ampera> having a logical identifying scheme for machines seems like a perfectly reasonable idea to me.
42:50 <mrpackethead> We have "elly" "tron" and "nick"
43:33 <mrpackethead> It took me several weeks to figure out what they did. and i was very impressed for miss 11, and mr 13
43:42 <mrpackethead> "elly-tron-nick'
44:15 <mrpackethead> however, the line runs right to left.
44:57 <mrpackethead> maybe it should have been 'ylle-nort-kcin'
46:12 <coppice_> I've never seen the Minions movie, but I assume its a good source of names for machines
47:26 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
20:46 <MrMobodies> mrpackethead: MrMobodies, you and I share the first same name
20:51 <MrMobodies> Sorry I just got back
21:08 <MrMobodies> another 34 minutes trill 2019
45:07 Quit: Guest|54713 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
06:09 <MrMobodies> I hear the fireworks
06:31 <MrMobodies> it is 00:11 in England
07:40 <coppice_> I think the brexit wars may have begun
13:17 <DHess_US> I read that in Yoda's voice.
13:31 <IoTPanic> Whys that @coppice_?
43:51 <damian> happy new year fellows
59:35 Quit: mrpackethead ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:33 <coppice_> IoTPanic: looking back it might just have been some New Year's fireworks
16:54 <rust_collector> that is what they want you to think
16:55 <Ampera> my god, that reminds me of a 4th of July surrounding week we had.
16:56 <IoTPanic> Oh, lmaao
17:13 <Ampera> The city has an ordinance (I think it's city/county level), banning all fireworks, even sparklers.
17:33 <IoTPanic> FUck your ordinance
17:34 <Ampera> but for one week they legalized the sale and use of most common fireworks, including rocket fireworks.
18:13 <IoTPanic> Our governor thought it was a REALLY good idea to legalize fireworks
18:22 <IoTPanic> He said it would bring many jobs
18:22 <Ampera> my dear god it was like the fucking blitz, you would hear explosions every five minutes
18:45 <Ampera> and I imagine the fire department went absolutely nuts, because we live right next to the station (at least within audible distance), and could hear them going all the damn time.
18:50 <IoTPanic> OR should I say ex governor *cough*
18:59 <IoTPanic> He is a HUGE trump guy
19:02 <Ampera> you're a maniac, right?
19:21 <IoTPanic> It made a lot of jobs at first, but then cities started banning them.
19:32 <IoTPanic> Haha
20:02 <IoTPanic> Why am I a maniac?
20:07 <Ampera> Maine-iac
20:11 <Ampera> or was that someone else in here
20:12 <IoTPanic> Oh, yes
20:20 <IoTPanic> Bravo
20:20 <Ampera> my grandfather was born in Lewiston.
20:32 <Ampera> or at least lived there for a significant portion of his early life.
20:33 <IoTPanic> The armpit of Maine
20:43 <IoTPanic> The left one specifically
20:52 <Ampera> That's impressive, because Maine is sort of like the armpit of Canada.
21:15 <Ampera> It even looks like an armpit, in relation to Canada.
21:32 <IoTPanic> Fuck you you New Yoak slime, come 'ere
21:41 <IoTPanic> XD
22:09 <Ampera> I have my horde of angry Albanians ready to come and build shitty grey monoliths from the 60/70's directly ontop of your residential areas.
22:24 <Ampera> also, nice brownout
22:45 <Ampera> (we just had, lights flickered)
23:20 <Ampera> rather a voltage dip
23:43 Join: Guest|10772 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
24:14 <IoTPanic> Lol
24:36 <IoTPanic> Im sure the Maine grid could hold up.... oh... wait..... shot
24:39 <IoTPanic> shit**
25:07 <Ampera> I wasn't Maine had enough money to afford electricity.
25:21 <Guest|10772> what was everyones favorit electroncis related video of the year.
25:43 <Ampera> That's a difficult question off the bat, as there have been a lot of videos specifically relating to electronics.
25:47 <IoTPanic> What? And a lot of Mainers don't, so for them its not a problem
25:54 <Ampera> ranging from techie EE stuff to more generic games and etc.
26:03 <IoTPanic> Battery thingy
26:07 <IoTPanic> scam
26:12 <Ampera> I thought you were doing IRC through smoke signals or other optical telegraphy.
26:25 <IoTPanic> I want IRC smoke signals now
26:29 <IoTPanic> I will make this a program
27:00 <Ampera> just have a very low power infrared lazer, and aim it in the air to the smoke, and then measure the reflections.
27:08 <IoTPanic> Hahaha
27:24 <Ampera> range would probably be shit in order to not blind/injure pilots, but it could work.
27:26 <IoTPanic> That would be best electronics video of the year
27:43 <Ampera> potentially easier if you just use a camera and track smoke shapes.
27:57 <Ampera> but the programming implementation might be a pain in the ass.
28:30 <Guest|10772> baterizer stuff was good...
29:05 <Ampera> I watch /a lot/ of videos in the span of a year, probably several thousand
29:25 <Ampera> so for there to be one video that was released this year centered around electronics to be particularly notable.
29:28 <IoTPanic> Eh. And can I ask the question as to who the fuck is getting reliable 10 mile range out of LoRa? I see it advertised everywhere and yeah, at like, 80% packet drop. And yes, the videos and content that came out of it. It wasn't a scam, but for god sakes it wasn't revolutionizing batteries like they said
29:41 <Ampera> I think the most impressive things I've seen this year are potentially the RTX raytracing demos nvidia has put out.
29:51 <IoTPanic> Its soo nice
29:54 <IoTPanic> mmmm
29:59 <Guest|10772> i wtch a lotta stuff around SDR, but not as etertaining as debunking
30:14 <Ampera> I nearly bought an RTX 2070, and I will probably get one later in the year, but I spent the money on a Vive
30:19 <Ampera> because I have no self control and I hate myself
30:20 <IoTPanic> I love Battlefield five footage with it, it just looks so so good. SDR is good
30:25 <Guest|10772> RTX.... if only... nice stuff.
30:51 <IoTPanic> Its nice and all, but Nvidia could have done a little better with their launch
30:56 <Guest|10772> wait for the 21xx stuff
31:00 <Ampera> I think even if the cards right off the bat aren't amazing for raytracing performance, the first move needed to be made at some point, and the mere fact that they can do real time hardware raytracing impresses me to no end
31:05 <Guest|10772> and the 11xx stuff
31:06 <Ampera> you mean 30xx stuff
31:09 <Ampera> :P
31:14 <IoTPanic> I want to see ray tracing 2.0
31:16 <Ampera> or who knows how they will number it
31:19 <Guest|10772> havent ehard that rumor but yea woot
31:46 <Guest|10772> jsut saw linus's thing in the upcoming video graphics
31:47 <IoTPanic> I bet that's when it gets really good without a massive price and heat
31:50 <Ampera> Performance is awesome, though, RTX 2070 passmarks at or above GTX 1080Ti, just with less VRAM
31:51 <Guest|10772> gets conffusing quick
32:09 <IoTPanic> Really? I didn't see they did better with less vram
32:12 <Guest|10772> they relaly need to simplify the numbering naming scheme
32:26 <Ampera> It's passmark, so take it with a grain of salt, I use it for ballpark figures.
32:27 <IoTPanic> Thats actually rather nice for vendors
32:41 <Ampera> There's likely a set of better/worse scenarios, especially considering the considerable VRAM differential.
33:08 <IoTPanic> It's also using the new version of GDDR 5
33:12 <Ampera> Stuff like GPU compute might be better on a 1080ti, but power usage and the room for overclocking, especially on high end cards with better power delivery will beat a 1080ti
33:15 <IoTPanic> Which prolly helps
33:34 <Ampera> That is true, but it's not always about memory speed, it can often be about size
33:46 <Ampera> but still in being above system memory speed and characteristics
33:51 <IoTPanic> I was saying bandwidth
34:01 <IoTPanic> It has a MASSIVE bus
34:11 <Ampera> so does Fortnite, and I still hate that.
34:23 <IoTPanic> And it's super low latency
34:36 <IoTPanic> Think about that
34:40 <IoTPanic> If you have to compute a fraame
34:49 <Ampera> Regardless, the point is mute for serious work, because of the 2080Ti, which professionals will likely flock to a bit more for serious high VRAM usage
34:55 <Ampera> so the differential probably doesn't matter a whole lot.
35:25 <IoTPanic> Agreed, but it's good for gamers. And nice fortnite stab
35:39 <Ampera> holy shit
35:51 <Ampera> just refreshed my reddit page to find my karma jumped like 40 points
36:07 <IoTPanic> I do not use reddit, wdtm?
36:16 <Ampera> almost at 1000, and considering I barely use reddit, that's not bad.
36:22 <Ampera> It's the way to measure your penis in Reddit.
36:29 <IoTPanic> Ah, okay
36:43 <Ampera> karma is gained through post upvotes, and lost through post downvotes, but the way in which that is calculated can differentiate, and I think there may or may not be other sources to that.
36:58 <Ampera> CGP Grey has a good video on it that will probably explain it far better than I can.
37:07 <Ampera> I mostly just go on reddit to comment on me_irl posts, because I am 9.
37:46 <IoTPanic> Its your social credit score. Like in china
38:38 <IoTPanic> If your karma gets too low can you not leave the country? Or take a train?
39:04 <Ampera> except unless it's a particularly cool employer, telling them about your karma is probably going to either get ignored or placed down as a reason for you to not be hired.
39:24 <Ampera> if your social credit score is too low, you may be restricted travel, loans, employment, etc.
39:45 <Ampera> Tom Scott had a very good video "joking" about a UK version of a similar concept.
39:58 <IoTPanic> Lmao. Yep... In not that government it has good underlying concepts
40:22 <IoTPanic> Make that a decentralized blockchain.
40:25 <Ampera> It wouldn't surprise me too too much if the UK decided to implement that sort of system.
40:30 <IoTPanic> In a democracy
40:44 <Ampera> oh god please shut up about blockchains
41:08 <IoTPanic> Hey, hate on them all you want, in very specific senerios they do good
41:28 <Ampera> cryptocurrencies are some of the stupidiest ideas ever, and their immense volitily and the near worthlessness of any particular coin off the block makes it utterly stupid.
41:40 <IoTPanic> Not a currency
41:43 <IoTPanic> That is dumb
41:56 <IoTPanic> A blockchain is a amazing way of keeping a public record
42:15 <IoTPanic> Without the need for anything centralized
42:22 <IoTPanic> Like a government
42:25 <Ampera> ah, I was confused on the definition of blockchain
42:33 <IoTPanic> Like most
42:34 <Ampera> thus, I am not able to comment.
42:46 <IoTPanic> Thank the media
43:02 <Ampera> I don't pay much attention to the media
43:10 <Ampera> I'm just stupid and like to go on about things I barely know anything about.
43:12 <Ampera> sort of like the media
43:59 <IoTPanic> Its a way of crytographically having a record across many computers without a "master"
44:29 <Ampera> sounds like bittorrent
44:37 <IoTPanic> Not at all
44:53 <IoTPanic> Well.... if you stretch it
45:13 <Ampera> as in, it's a decentralized manner of keeping a file, which could be extended to a record.
45:42 <Ampera> from what I can see, it's just data ordered into structures with other data, which could be then arranged in peices wherever is wanted.
45:42 <IoTPanic> Which no one can modify. You can only share data between accounts with a key system
45:53 <IoTPanic> Then hashed
46:02 <IoTPanic> Well, put into blocks and hashed
46:41 <IoTPanic> You can decrypt your account to get data out with your key, but others can put data in with a public key
46:55 <IoTPanic> Which is why its used for money
47:48 <IoTPanic> People gave it value, but its money without any master, any government
48:21 <Ampera> my response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5en2JMLA8Z0
48:36 <IoTPanic> Ahhh, got it. Not interested
48:48 <Ampera> why you gotta hate the beatles?
48:54 <IoTPanic> I dont
49:06 <IoTPanic> Im just picking up your underlying message
49:15 <rust_collector> I just scrolled back thru the youtube feed, and... nope, not much interesting about electronics last year. I would say something by w2aew
49:32 <rust_collector> even if I don't do radio things
50:23 <IoTPanic> Best American cop video? Because america is dumb and funny as shit and trained police officers vs wanna be lazy ass punks is hilarious
51:20 <Ampera> I can definitely tell you the best and worst video of 2018.
51:52 <Ampera> Worst video of 2018 is YouTube Rewind 2018, the largest piss up your cornflake filled ass YouTube has ever done in video form.
52:01 Quit: DL3CE ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
52:10 <Ampera> Best video of 2018 is PewDiePie's 2018 Rewind, which is what YouTube Rewind should have been.
52:12 <IoTPanic> I gotta cook, brb
52:40 Join: DL3CE ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
53:13 <coppice_> YouTube Rewind 2018 is the Teresa May of videos, uniting everyone in the loathing of one thing
53:42 <Ampera> except Theresa May's own party.
54:02 <coppice_> nope. everyone hates what she has come up with
54:23 <Ampera> not enough to vote her out apparently.
54:44 <rust_collector> not me, because I still have not looked up what she has come up with
54:58 <coppice_> that's a separate issue. being prime minister in the runup to brexit is such a poisoned pill nobody else wants the job
55:12 <Halcyon> Hey Ampera
55:22 <Ampera> Hi Halcyon, how's 2019?
55:27 <rust_collector> no one wants to vote her out, because then they would have to find someone to take over
56:14 <Ampera> Some half of me hopes the UK government is stupid enough to leave the EU, because it would be sort of fun to see an entire world power gradually eat shit more than it already has.
56:36 <Ampera> Would not be fun for anybody who lives there, but it's nice when bad thing happen to other people sometimes.
56:59 <rust_collector> now, Ampera... what makes you think the eu is a good thing for britain?
57:03 <Halcyon> Yeh not bad
57:36 <Ampera> The massive financial impact that trade agreements tend to give for countries, the massive number of companies and industries that rely on free travel and no tarrifs between countries.
58:16 <Ampera> The large number of things imported from the rest of the EU, afforded through low tarrifs, likely to cause things like grocceries to increase in price significantly to a population who will likely have a hard time making money to begin with.
58:38 <rust_collector> they will still have that. just takes a bit of time to get it organized
58:47 <Ampera> I'm open to being proven wrong, but those are my predictions to a UK without the EU.
59:26 <rust_collector> yeah, it is interesting. I just happen to think not much will change
59:45 <coppice_> if a trade agreement is settled in 5 years, that's considered the super fast track. They usually take much longer. The issue with brexit is much less being in or out, but how horrible the breakup period works out to be
59:58 <Ampera> rust_collector, Brexit is already a dubious idea if it were executed by a stable government, but the pure insanity currently happening in Westminster is going to make a Brexit be the largest plunge since 1912.
01:17 <coppice_> many super pro-brexit people are now talking about it being good for the UK in 50 years. That's more than a whole working life of badness
01:22 <Ampera> Believe me, I'm not a fan of the EU, but perhaps it would be worth campaigning for people to give more of a shit about EU MoP elections (as I've heard for a lot of this), so that chucklefucks like thsoe who are voting on the copyright reform aren't allowed bend Europe over and fuck them in the ass.
01:45 <Ampera> Oh sure, after time, the UK will find equilibrium, but it will be /awful/ in the short term.
02:15 <Ampera> however the issue is, as you said, more of a rough tearing of an arm off, instead of a gentle amputation.
02:52 <coppice_> They just gave a contract to run additional ferries to Europe to cope with the congestion after next March to a firm with no ferries :)
03:16 <Ampera> oh that sounds great.
03:22 <rust_collector> details...
03:36 <coppice_> it was on the news today
03:48 <Ampera> Sounds like true believers in the word, "yet".
04:00 <coppice_> The contract is to expand services from Ramsgate
04:28 <Ampera> Ramsgate, the conspiracy about horned livestock.
04:36 <Ampera> or, perhaps Gordon Ramsey.
04:37 <rust_collector> hah
05:37 <Ampera> *Ramsay
07:08 Quit: DL3CE ([email protected]) Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
07:14 <rust_collector> well, good night
40:27 <IoTPanic> Night, happy new year.... I say way too late
40:58 <Halcyon> :)
41:08 <IoTPanic> Hi Halcyon! How is 2019?
41:21 <Halcyon> Yeh not bad
41:25 <Halcyon> Have to work tomorrow :(
42:26 <IoTPanic> I saw some photos of the AU new years events in Sydney, looks like they know how to light a firework or two. And thats too bad, I have my second day off in three weeks. The first was christmas
43:23 <Halcyon> Yeh they try to out-do it every year
43:41 <Halcyon> I just watched a live feed from home, couldn't be bothered dealing with people
44:14 <Halcyon> They went through almost 9 tons of fireworks in Sydney
50:40 Quit: Guest|10772 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
04:24 <IoTPanic> Oh yeah, you dont wanna be anywhere near those celebrations in my opinion
40:45 <Halcyon> How about you IoTPanic? What did you get up to?
41:10 <IoTPanic> Still 2018
41:17 <Halcyon> Ahh
41:27 <Halcyon> It's 1443 here
41:29 <IoTPanic> Sleep
59:49 <steve30> morning
03:12 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :)
10:22 <IRCStats> mIRCStats update for #EEVblog started
10:30 <IRCStats> New stats available for #EEVblog! See the #EEVblog stats: http://www.irc-stats.org/austnet/eevblog
11:30 <steve30> Looks like Halcyon and Ampera have been busy
11:39 <Halcyon> :P
11:50 <Halcyon> You could join us more often, I've always encouraged it
10:16 * T3sl4 slaps Halcyon on the buttocks
10:20 <Halcyon> :D
11:30 <steve30> time for another coffee
14:27 <T3sl4> coffee \o/
19:57 * Halcyon is trying to work out why none of his torrents are uploading
20:07 <Halcyon> What do you guys for torrents on Linux?
26:24 * steve30 doesn't torrent
26:41 <steve30> Well, I did once a couple of years ago, but i can't remember what i used
33:36 <T3sl4> who dat T3s1aC01l
35:42 <steve30> maybe you've got competition
46:34 * steve30 purrs at T3sl4 
46:58 * T3sl4 dangles an old computer on a string above steve30
47:22 <steve30> \o/
02:11 * Halcyon scratches both steve30 and T3sl4, one with each hand
04:22 <steve30> :)
04:36 <T3sl4> harder daddy
04:38 <T3sl4> i mean what?
05:38 * Halcyon digs the nails in 
06:02 <Halcyon> T3sl4: If I didn't know you were straight, I reckon you'd make a very respectable gay guy.
06:09 <Halcyon> Such a shame :)
06:13 <T3sl4> :P
07:18 <steve30> T3sl4 is straight? I always considered him one of those ambiguous types :D
08:40 <Halcyon> :P
09:04 <Halcyon> I think he's one of these straight guys who likes to keep us guessing, but in reality he doesn't like the D
09:15 <T3sl4> quite ;)
09:26 <Halcyon> We call them a fucking tease :)
17:01 <steve30> I think I might go out for a walk this morning
17:23 <Halcyon> Where to?
17:59 <Halcyon> You seem to go out a lot... are you a cat?
18:17 <steve30> just a mile or two round the local area
18:33 <Halcyon> I was going to go for a walk, but Its 35C outside
18:35 <steve30> I actually don't walk as much as I used to, as I do most of my travelling by bike
18:36 <Halcyon> So I'll pass
18:46 * steve30 meows
18:50 <Halcyon> :P
18:56 <steve30> Its about 10C here
19:43 <Halcyon> That's about as cold as I like it outside
19:54 * Halcyon doesn't like wearing jackets and jumpers etc...
20:12 <steve30> its going to be cold tomorrow
20:32 <Halcyon> I'm a board shorts and t-shirt kind of guy
20:57 <steve30> nice
21:06 <steve30> we don't have the weather for that here
22:18 <Halcyon> You've said it before, but I think you'd like it here
22:42 <steve30> 35C would be fine with air conditioning
22:47 <Halcyon> *nod*
22:52 <Halcyon> Most people have AC
25:14 <T3sl4> i understand how people can live in dry, hot climates, but i don't get how survival is possible in humid tropics when it gets that hot
26:38 <Halcyon> Indeed. I've spent a week or so in Darwin once (north west of AU, between PNG and Indonesia) and it's fucking horrid
27:30 <Halcyon> 35 degrees where I am, whilst warm, is bearable. It's nice outside as long as you don't have to do anything strenuous.
29:09 <Halcyon> But yeh, if you guys ever find yourself on this side of the globe, we'll have to have a beverage or five
35:28 <steve30> Halcyon, have you met David2?
35:35 <Halcyon> I have
36:54 <Halcyon> Yes, he's cute
36:55 <Halcyon> :P
42:23 <Halcyon> Why do you ask steve30 ?
42:41 <steve30> just curious
42:46 <Halcyon> :P
46:35 <T3sl4> when you go out shopping, are you buy-curious? :P
47:44 <Halcyon> Hahaha
47:52 <Halcyon> No, I go in with a list and only get the things I need
02:20 <steve30> i did spend a while browsing the coffee section in tesco the other day
12:51 <Halcyon> Oh yes?
13:02 <Halcyon> Looking to change your coffee?
13:27 <steve30> nah, i'm happy with my current coffee
15:12 <Halcyon> I just use a plunger and grind my beans
15:21 * Halcyon offers T3sl4 his beans
17:10 <T3sl4> your two beans and a coffee stir stick?
17:18 <Halcyon> *nod*
17:20 <Halcyon> Cream is optional
17:29 * T3sl4 giggles at the size
17:55 <steve30> I buy ready ground coffee
18:29 <Halcyon> T3sl4: Don't make me send you a dick pic to prove you wrong :P
18:47 * Halcyon slaps T3sl4 with it
19:19 <Halcyon> Have you guys have much experience with FreeNAS/ZFS?
19:22 <Halcyon> *had
19:32 <T3sl4> thats NASty
21:12 <Halcyon> :)
21:43 <Halcyon> One of my disks has 1 bad pending sector
21:55 <Halcyon> Will it automatically relocate that to the spare area?
23:01 <Halcyon> Or do I need to kick it off somehow?
23:17 <T3sl4> drives handle themselves
23:28 <Halcyon> Why is it still pending then?
23:35 <Halcyon> Its been this way for months
23:45 <T3sl4> i don't know what it means
24:11 <T3sl4> i don't think SMART is all that specific but YMMV
24:24 <T3sl4> can always scandisk it :P
30:11 <Halcyon> I'll defrag it as well :P
36:26 <steve30> Its nice outside today
40:57 <damian> man, i ate too much
41:00 * damian falls over
41:13 * T3sl4 swats at damian
41:28 <damian> ugh why why why
41:33 <T3sl4> with a thin mint, that is
49:19 <steve30> we're having turkey for dinner today
50:13 <T3sl4> brined?
50:24 <steve30> roast
51:50 <T3sl4> but before that
52:35 * steve30 meows at the turkey breast in the fridge
52:53 <T3sl4> mmm, poultryboob
00:17 Join: mrpackethead ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:49 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://i.imgur.com/b1ZMfh4.jpg
09:40 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, yes.
14:19 <mrpackethead> old school statistics doing my head in today
14:56 <T3sl4> it tends to do that, yeah
16:13 * T3sl4 meows at steve30 suspiciously https://i.imgur.com/osXYk2o.jpg
16:55 * steve30 innocently purrs
19:39 <mrpackethead> trying to estimate the probability of two resistors of the same reel fall within 0.2% of each ither
20:02 <T3sl4> you need the PDF
20:04 <mrpackethead> knowing that the distributions fall normally.
20:13 <T3sl4> normal to what?
20:22 <mrpackethead> a 'normal distribution'
20:31 <T3sl4> yeah normal to what, what sigma? ;)
20:44 <T3sl4> i think the usual guess is normal truncated at 3 sigma
20:57 <T3sl4> which is close enough to normal not to need to worry about the truncation i think?
21:11 <mrpackethead> and 1 sigma = 0.125%
21:13 <T3sl4> but maybe it's 2 sigma, depends on the process i suppose
21:50 <mrpackethead> was looking at daves old video.. he tested 2000 1% resistors
22:07 <mrpackethead> they all actually fell within +/-0.5%
22:24 <mrpackethead> and very closely were normally distributed.
24:07 <mrpackethead> easy to calculate probablitys for a single event
24:23 <mrpackethead> not sure how to do it for two independant events, with a constraint
24:30 <mrpackethead> I could do it programatically..
25:00 <mrpackethead> but wondering if there is a better way
42:35 Join: Danol ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
42:41 <Danol> Hello
42:58 <Danol> Hmm wasn't this channel bigger?
44:17 <Danol> Anyway, I have this master-slave surge protector: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ednet-Power-Control-Master-Slave-Black/dp/B000HZ3GM2
44:35 <Danol> The master socket is connected to my notebook, the rest is monitors, speakers n' stuff
45:30 <Danol> From time to time, when the notebook is turned on connected to the plug (but also with battery), the protector turns itself off and on very quickly. This happens ~every 30m
46:00 <Danol> Not sure if it is the fault of the protector or if the notebook doesn't draw enough power to keep it on at that moment
46:28 <Danol> Anyway, it's really annoying because even this short pulse restarts all my monitors and everything.
46:39 <Danol> Do you have any recommendations of what I could do?
47:13 <T3sl4> yeah, not everyone on afternet has moved here
48:34 <T3sl4> you mean the surge protector does more than protect surge?
48:53 <Danol> @T3sl4 master-slave protectors have an extra feature
49:01 <Danol> they measure current through the master socket
49:04 <T3sl4> can you just plug in a light bulb? or run folding@home?
49:11 <Danol> and if it is above a certain threshold, it turns on the other sockets
49:17 <T3sl4> ah
49:29 <Danol> Why would I plug a light bulb?
49:37 <T3sl4> because its always on?
50:11 <Danol> I don't understand
50:23 <Danol> I want to turn off my monitors n' stuff when the notebook is off
50:40 <Danol> So I bought this master-slave thingy
50:51 <Danol> So when the notebook is off, it automatically turns off everything else
50:56 <T3sl4> yeah, turn on the light, everything else turns on
51:17 <Danol> But I want to use the computer even without light :D
51:35 <T3sl4> then run folding@home?
51:43 <mrpackethead> Danol, yes, the addition of another IRC channel just meant that there is now two channels, and its diluted things. However that is life.
51:57 <Danol> Ah there are more channels
52:17 <mrpackethead> yes, there is #eevblog on afternet and also on freenode
55:42 <T3sl4> mmm, mac & cheese
41:39 <Ampera> aw sweet, number 1 in the server
42:19 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, did the math. without sorting, you've got 55% chance of a pair of resistors from the reel of 1% parts being within .2% of each other
42:29 <Ampera> good morning anyways, and happy 2019
42:33 <mrpackethead> which means that a sort is required.
42:37 <Ampera> I sleeped through midnight.
42:42 <T3sl4> cool
42:50 * T3sl4 hugs Ampera
42:58 * Ampera hugs T3sl4 back
43:54 <mrpackethead> I think ( given the parts are so cheap ) we can just keep parts that are 1sigma from mean
43:57 <mrpackethead> chuck the rest
44:12 <T3sl4> the cost is sorting period
44:18 <mrpackethead> yup.
44:41 <T3sl4> setting up two reels on your PNP machine and some sort of probe would be the way to go, i guess, lacking something better
44:56 <T3sl4> why can you not calibrate it after assembly
45:29 <mrpackethead> calibration suggests something that you can adjust
47:55 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
47:56 <mrpackethead> and that will be painful
48:06 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
48:16 * T3sl4 hugs ThunderSqueak
48:40 * ThunderSqueak hugs back.
48:42 <ThunderSqueak> hi there
48:44 <ThunderSqueak> whats up?
50:36 <T3sl4> just chillin
51:34 <ThunderSqueak> ah, I was sleeping, woke up at 2:30am
52:09 <mrpackethead> it is chilly here. i'm looking forward to returning to summer soon
52:26 <T3sl4> that'll be a while
53:14 <mrpackethead> no 13 days
53:47 * T3sl4 slaps mrpackethead so hard the entire earth wobbles on its axis
54:23 <mrpackethead> i need to establish a northern hemisphere 2nd home
13:55 * ThunderSqueak dances.
14:14 <ThunderSqueak> might as well, woke up in th emiddle of the night with a headache
14:23 * T3sl4 isn't watching
14:59 * ThunderSqueak holds her hand out and invites T3sl4 to dance too, because why not start the new year with a dance.
15:16 <T3sl4> \o/
15:33 <Ampera> dancing is stupid
15:35 * T3sl4 assumes no one else is watching, dances as white as he possibly can
15:37 <Ampera> I know, I used to do it.
16:01 <ThunderSqueak> nothing wrong with dancing :D
16:02 <Ampera> I even performed twice in the nutcracker.
16:08 <Ampera> shit's gay
16:11 <ThunderSqueak> as long as you do it for fun
16:12 * T3sl4 cracks Ampera's nuts
16:27 * Ampera cracks T3sl4's co1ls
16:30 <ThunderSqueak> Ampera, well, good, because I am a gay woman?
16:41 <Ampera> I wasn't aware you liked men, ThunderSqueak
16:51 <ThunderSqueak> lesbian
16:55 <ThunderSqueak> meh whatever
17:01 <Ampera> I know, you're lesbian very annoying.
17:02 <Ampera> :P
17:10 * ThunderSqueak has dated men 
17:17 * Ampera smashes his face into solid concrete
17:30 <ThunderSqueak> decided they were not for me
17:33 <T3sl4> hey now, lesbian reasonable
17:33 <ThunderSqueak> <.<;;
17:54 <ThunderSqueak> why is it annoying?
17:57 <T3sl4> (lets being reasonable? eh, i know, a stretch)
18:04 <Ampera> because otherwise that joke wouldn't make a lot of sense.
18:10 <ThunderSqueak> T3sl4, i GOT IT :>
18:16 <T3sl4> :)
18:26 <Ampera> so this is how it starts, you steal my jokes
18:31 <Ampera> what next, you steal my money?
18:32 <Ampera> my friends?
18:38 <Ampera> why not just steal my identity and personality too!
18:39 <T3sl4> then you get the wimmin
18:45 <T3sl4> then joo get de powah
18:57 * ThunderSqueak ponders.
21:08 * ThunderSqueak should find something to eat since she is now awake.
21:39 <T3sl4> moost jerky?
21:41 <T3sl4> t=e
28:33 <ThunderSqueak> nah, had a 1/4 cup of pistachios in the shells
28:55 <T3sl4> not nearly enough
29:01 Quit: Danol ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
29:14 <steve30> I think I'll have coffee
29:56 <ThunderSqueak> T3sl4, I am counting my caloric intake
30:08 <T3sl4> fair
31:16 <ThunderSqueak> been doing that for a month now, oddly people have began noticing
31:38 <T3sl4> :)
33:03 <steve30> I've ordered some bicycle stuff
33:26 <ThunderSqueak> yeah?
34:30 <ThunderSqueak> should I get some toast ?
34:36 <ThunderSqueak> o.o still a little hungry
34:46 <T3sl4> that wasnt many nuts :P
35:03 * T3sl4 slides the marmite over to ThunderSqueak
35:14 <ThunderSqueak> oh I got a new jar of that :D
35:33 <ThunderSqueak> corner market near my home started carrying it
35:41 <T3sl4> hah
36:02 <ThunderSqueak> that means enough people up here are asking for it ? O.o
37:21 <steve30> marmite ftw
41:21 <ThunderSqueak> yes
41:49 <ThunderSqueak> noticing I feel better on days I have some on toast for breakfast <.<
43:39 <T3sl4> how do you feel about liver related products?
44:42 <ThunderSqueak> love liver
44:43 <ThunderSqueak> :D
44:53 <ThunderSqueak> its delicious
55:19 <T3sl4> i should think it would be just about obligatory against SAD
55:41 <ThunderSqueak> liver?
55:45 <T3sl4> yes
56:03 <ThunderSqueak> I grew up eating liver and liverwurst
56:15 <ThunderSqueak> something I still like to eat, even if it is super fatty :P
56:29 <T3sl4> oh but thats the best kind
57:58 <ThunderSqueak> fat == flavor
58:09 <T3sl4> fat=calories
58:23 <T3sl4> i guess the upshot of that is, you don't have to eat as much food
58:29 <T3sl4> and it can be that much more flavorful besides
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