// #eevblog — 2019-06-13
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00:01:01 <DHess_US> Hey, who is close to Vandenburg? Wipe that grey stuff off of the camera lens.
00:21:06 <damian> wooo
00:21:09 <damian> nice rocket landing, so smooth
00:21:28 <K> stick didn't go boom?
00:21:28 <Ampera> I like smooth
00:21:33 <Ampera> stick went woosh
00:21:35 <damian> nah all good
00:21:36 <Ampera> not crash
00:21:40 <K> good.
00:21:42 <damian> i'm watching a bit delayed 'cause i just came in
00:21:51 <damian> but watching at 2x speed, so i'll catch up in no time!
00:22:05 * Ampera catches damian
00:22:12 <damian> oh, they haven't dropped the satellite payload yet anyway
00:22:14 * damian just caught up
00:23:01 <damian> ok im going to bed, maybe ill watch in the morning
00:23:09 <damian> have a great day Ampera
00:25:19 <Ampera> ciao damian
00:27:40 <DHess_US> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhslxnWQPZU
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04:31:46 <Nothing\> ah playing around with plls and their components (cd4046be)
04:32:21 <Nothing\> i was just thinking, i bet you could drive one pill with the VCO of another
04:34:51 <Nothing\> i got some radial lead inductors today, 10mh, but holy crap they,re 450ohms :O
04:35:32 <Nothing\> wouldn't even need to use a resistor if i made it into a fltire
04:36:51 <DHess_US> Sure that is sometimes done. The 74HC4046 is an improved 4046. Its phase comparator does not have a dead zone.
04:38:11 <Nothing\> hrrm i didn't even know there was a 7400 equivalent, but not surprised
04:40:16 <Nothing\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS7z8WsXPMk
04:40:45 <Nothing\> this has turned out to be a great resource
04:41:00 <Nothing\> as well as the datasheet of course
04:41:50 <rust_collector> I really like his videos, Too bad I am not into radio stuff
04:42:08 <Nothing\> yeah, i love his non-rf stuff but i'm not a fan of the rf stuff
04:42:55 <Nothing\> although the videos on transmission lines are interesting, i was tihnking of maybe trying to caputera reflection or something
04:43:20 <Nothing\> i just thikn transmission lines in general are neat
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04:47:47 <Nothing\> i posted a comment asking him if i could use the VCO on its own or if i'd need ta terminate any unused internals and he suggested i terminate the phase detector just in case it might cause noise
04:50:50 <Nothing\> sseems a reasonable idea so i think i might try it
04:55:22 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:55:45 <Nothing\> hey, i've got a question regarding oscillators made from schmidt triggers or ring oscillator made from inverters, does it matter if you use a polarized capacitor?
05:03:06 <Nothing\> also, you think this pll/vco will work on a bread board or should i at least use a metal plate for the back of it?
05:04:55 <Nothing\> i bought terraria on the ps3 the other day and holy crap is i t ever addictive, spent probably 10 hours just digging out a chunk of ice and replacing it with dirt
05:05:22 <Nothing\> and building houses for villagers of cours
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05:28:02 <Nothing\> hey DogWomble what's up
05:29:02 <Halcyon> I think his internet is just up and down :P
05:30:14 <Nothing\> ah looking back, it would seem ypu maybe right
05:30:26 <Nothing\> but what's up with you?
05:45:29 <Ampera> hi Halcyon and Nothing\
05:56:11 <DHess_US> Nothing\, a buch of the 4000 series parts have 74HC4xxx equivalents.
05:56:27 <DHess_US> HC is just low voltage CMOS
05:56:43 <DHess_US> so limited to +5 volts or +5/-5 for analog multiplexors.
05:57:06 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/LMmiIQO.jpg
06:15:02 <damian> ITS A CONSPIRACY!
06:15:20 <damian> there was an alien ship in view of the third satellite release so they had to cut video temporarily
06:15:36 <DHess_US> Oh?
06:15:57 <DHess_US> https://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/3be4a27c6529bb5b3e98e474971b824a1446057528_full.jpg
06:17:48 <DHess_US> If you had not said something, I would never have known. I stopped watching after the first deployment.
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11:19:22 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I'm getting random PayPal money requests now, someone in the Philippines needs heart operation... Sorry, I only give money to legit Nigerian princes.
11:38:28 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! The Incredible Switch Replacement Repair https://t.co/WD7ggQqHQW
12:17:59 <steve30> hi
12:21:19 <DogWomble> hi steve :)
12:27:09 <DHess_US> "Fowler 0-6� Blackface Dial Caliper 52-008-005-0" That's racist!
12:49:05 Quit: rrn ([email protected]) Quit:
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13:02:59 <coppice_> DHess_US: its only racist if the black face is constrasted with all white detailing
13:11:00 <DHess_US> Um, that's how blackface dial calipers are.
13:11:42 <DHess_US> http://www.fowlerprecision.com/Products/Dial-Calipers/0-6-Blackface-Dial-Caliper-52-008-005.html
13:12:19 <DHess_US> Fowler has dual dial inch/metric calipers. I'm wondering how good their quality is.
13:12:34 <coppice_> nah, its more traditional to have a sort of creamy beigy colour against black
13:12:53 <DHess_US> http://www.fowlerprecision.com/Products/Dial-Calipers/6-150mm-Inch-Metric-Reading-Dial-Caliper-52-030-006.html
13:12:55 <coppice_> dunno why. it reduces the contrast
13:13:04 <DHess_US> More racist, http://www.fowlerprecision.com/Products/Dial-Calipers/0-150mm-Yellowface-Machinist-Grade-Dial-Caliper-52-008-709.html
13:13:27 <DHess_US> Yea, black on white is generally easier to read.
13:14:16 <DHess_US> http://www.fowlerprecision.com/core/media/media.nl?id=1120554&c=1318419&h=5519a684dba5098a5a4f
13:16:43 <Ampera> hi DHess_US, how do
13:16:50 <Ampera> EEVBlog, time
13:17:00 <Ampera> EEVBlog time
13:17:00 <EEVBlog> Ah shoot, Doc! We've ended up at 13:25 Sydney time.
13:23:26 <DHess_US> Ampera, hmm?
13:25:34 <Ampera> how are you
13:27:08 <DHess_US> Just filling my rage tank. Fuckers, https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Games-Workshop-Morningside-Plaza?_requestid=2850767
13:28:11 <Ampera> DHess_US, you sure that's the right link?
13:28:31 <DHess_US> It's to a Games Workshop store in Fullerton, isn't it?
13:29:34 <Ampera> aye, and why
13:30:48 <DHess_US> Back in the 80s and 90s, Games Workstop would make offers to the local gaming stores which they couldn't refuse. It was things like don't carry other companies stuff, only carry our stuff, when you buy miniatures, you have to pay ahead of time and risk your on inventory, stuff like that.
13:31:04 <DHess_US> If they didn't play, GW would open their own store adjacent to them and drive them out of business.
13:31:22 <DHess_US> Which is why there are no independant game stores in some areas. They are all GW.
13:31:40 <Ampera> aren't there laws against that
13:31:41 <DHess_US> I watched it happen twice in Southern California while I lived there.
13:31:47 <DHess_US> Yes, so?
13:31:57 <Ampera> fair enough
13:32:02 <DHess_US> How would an independant store fight that in court?
13:32:12 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:32:36 <Ampera> I'm currently up at night with absolutely nothing to do
13:32:49 <DHess_US> The intedpendent gaming community was tight back then so we knew what was going on with the stores.
13:32:58 <Ampera> I'm interested in watching the Chernobyl miniseries, but I'm too poor to buy it, and too lazy to steal it
13:33:09 <DHess_US> That's awfully lazy.
13:33:45 <Ampera> I'd have to fire up a VPN, and do it on another computer, then worry about getting a torrent client for BSD and blech
13:33:50 <DHess_US> The series is really good.
13:34:12 <DHess_US> https://rarbg.to/torrent/1uw7j4i
13:34:17 <Ampera> or something like a TUI client and use it on my linux machine.
13:34:34 <DHess_US> I was thinking of watching it again.
13:34:44 <Ampera> out of respect for the people I'm staying with, and fear of Comcast, I don't want to click that
13:34:53 <Ampera> although do you have the show as rips?
13:35:20 <DHess_US> haha, you can click it safely. Comcast can't see the content over https
13:35:30 <DHess_US> You would want to VPN your torrent download though.
13:35:38 <DHess_US> If that is an issue for where you are.
13:36:05 <Ampera> I'd still run the download through my servers in New York, so if something does go wrong, it's not a problem for the people here
13:36:14 <Ampera> but do you already have it? could you throw it up on an SFTP share for me
13:36:29 <DHess_US> sure sure, I've done the same thing before with a VPN to my home system and then I'd just fetch it from my home system.
13:36:49 <Ampera> alright give me a sec to set up the share
13:36:54 <DHess_US> I can send it whereever you want but I don't have any local hosting anymore.
13:37:14 <DHess_US> Honestly the easiest thing I could do it self host it as a torent for you.
13:37:30 <DHess_US> Using DHT
13:39:07 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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13:39:07 Mode: (by lego.jp.austnet.org) +o Ampera
13:42:49 <Ampera> DHess_US, I PMed you info
13:47:22 <DHess_US> Got it
13:47:32 <DHess_US> Logged in and setting it up.
13:47:35 <Ampera> thanks
13:48:04 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: So Make had 12 years of continuous growth but still figured out a away to burn the cash and go broke. That's impressive. https://t.co/CmwwrhafXh
13:49:31 <Ampera> oh shit make went bust?
13:49:36 <Ampera> I have like, two of their magazines
13:49:51 <Ampera> but I fondly remember being enthralled by Kipkay's make weekend projects when I was a kid
14:07:29 <DHess_US> I remember when transfering 10G over the internet would have been practically impossible.
14:09:06 <DHess_US> Back when Earthlink was a local ISP, I took down their email server for a week by sending one of their customers a 10M email attachment.
14:11:05 <Ampera> DHess_US, oh yeah, I just think that not too long ago we as a society were struggling with simply /recording/ video
14:11:24 <Ampera> well actually transmitting video has always been something easily done, even over long distances, just a long coax cable
14:11:37 <Ampera> What sort of internet do you have? I have 940/880 (at my server)
14:15:54 <DHess_US> Here? Like 30M/3M
14:16:50 <DHess_US> Back in the 90s like when I took down the Earthlink email server, I was routinely sending 10M files and larger through email without problems. It was just Earthlink which was screwed up and their customer base wasn't very technical.
14:17:36 <DHess_US> But that was over 19.2 to 56k modem connections.
14:17:58 <DHess_US> I still have my V.34 USR Modem.
14:18:02 <Ampera> Excuse my ignorance, but did 56k modems ever actually work right?
14:18:17 <DHess_US> Sure, the USR ones worked great. The others did also.
14:18:30 <Ampera> AIUI, 56k was them squeezing every last bit of data out of the line, and actually did something above voice in terms of spec
14:18:42 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Another Dumpster monitor find. 24" Samsung LED S24D300. Nice enough to include the proper plug pack too https://t.co/m3ZlIJUfpR
14:18:54 <DHess_US> Lets see, V.32 was 9600, V.32bis was 19.2. V.34 was 28.8? And of course 56k was 56k
14:19:18 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:19:27 <DHess_US> No, the way 56k worked was tricky but obvious to those skilled in the art.
14:20:41 <DHess_US> The phone system was digital by then with analog endpoints. On the digital side, it used robbed bit signalling which means 8 bits at 8k samples/second but only 7 bits because 1 bit is stolen for a control channel.
14:20:48 <Ampera> now we can have gigabit fibre lines that would have blown every single trunk line AT&T LL had in the 70's out of the water straight to the home, 80 bucks a month
14:20:53 <DHess_US> 7 x 8k is 56k ...
14:21:31 <DHess_US> Now V.34 was limited to 28.8k because of the Nyquist limit.
14:22:21 <DHess_US> But what the 56k standards did was to phase lock the sampling in the modem with the sampling on the digital side of the phone line so Nyquist does not apply.
14:22:53 <DHess_US> Then only the Shannon limit applies if the noise on the analog line is greater than the quantization noise.
14:23:10 <DHess_US> So huzza, 56k
14:23:40 <DHess_US> Usually 56k only worked in the download direction but that was fine for most people.
14:23:46 <Ampera> Huh
14:23:53 <DHess_US> And if you had a digital line, you could use it both ways.
14:24:13 <DHess_US> Then it was like a dumb version of ISDN with a different modulation.
14:24:15 <Ampera> 8000Khz @ 8 though
14:24:33 <DHess_US> no, 8kHz @ 8
14:24:36 <Ampera> afair that would have been 60's PCM, but damn, that's not much
14:24:40 <Ampera> lol meant hz
14:25:00 <DHess_US> Mine 1 bit so it was only 7 bits of data per octet.
14:25:03 <DHess_US> minus
14:25:38 <DHess_US> And honestly, it worked great.
14:25:49 <DHess_US> ISDN was better if you could get it of course.
14:25:53 <Ampera> I'd imagine for WAN access
14:26:15 <DHess_US> Remote desktop stuff worked mostly.
14:26:53 <DHess_US> At least for desktop applications which didn't involve continuous tones.
14:27:27 <Ampera> remote desktop over 56k
14:27:43 <Ampera> and to think my Xpra struggles on something that would kick that in the ass
14:27:58 <DHess_US> If you don't have to deal with continous tone images, then X Windows and similar work well at low bit rates.
14:28:11 <Ampera> continuous tone?
14:28:22 <DHess_US> Typical desktop graphics then compressed well.
14:28:38 <DHess_US> computer graphics versus photo graphics.
14:28:53 <Ampera> I mean I get that, RLE and whatnot
14:28:54 <DHess_US> How many colors does a desktop actually use unless a photograph is displayed?
14:29:12 <Ampera> some people in the 80's thought you could get away with 2
14:29:23 <DHess_US> haha, yes, they did.
14:29:50 <DHess_US> And honestly, they were almost right. 2 bit grayscale would be adaquate.
14:30:17 <Ampera> That being said I am shoving around 2160x1440 desktop graphics @ 32bpp compressed via WebP through the internet
14:30:26 <DHess_US> Terminal stuff was viable at 9600 baud.
14:30:36 <Ampera> Idk if Xpra is using interframe compression like sending individual elements or not
14:30:41 <DHess_US> Yup, things have changed.
14:30:57 <Ampera> Terminal stuff was done at 150 baud
14:31:08 <Ampera> but I'd take what I could get in that department
14:31:22 <DHess_US> But even back in the early 2000s RDP between windows machines over cable or DSL worked well enough.
14:31:39 <DHess_US> No, that was teletype stuff.
14:32:12 <Ampera> SAGE?
14:32:34 <Ampera> Bell 101?
14:32:49 <DHess_US> It was pretty routine on CP/M systems to run the terminal at 9600 minimum and 38,400 if it was supported.
14:32:50 <Ampera> afaik that was computer terminal stuff, not teletype
14:33:06 <DHess_US> Yea, for remote systems.
14:33:15 <DHess_US> 300 baud, 1200 baud, 2400 baud.
14:33:19 <Ampera> well that's what we're talking about, and that was 150 baud
14:33:40 <DHess_US> I never used a remote terminal at slower than 1200
14:33:48 <DHess_US> But I used teletypes at slower than 300
14:34:08 <Ampera> Afaik most common modems support Bell 101 signalling like they do 103
14:34:13 <Ampera> At least mine does
14:34:32 <Ampera> but SAGE, which was the start of computer modems, had a 150 baud max rate Bell 101 modem
14:34:40 <Ampera> which sounds like it would have been a pain in the ass to use
14:35:43 <DHess_US> teletypes were synched to the bit stream which is where the whole "2 stop bits" thing came from
14:36:58 <DHess_US> Transfer still going. I leave that Win 10 test system up continuously and have gotten it to be pretty reliable. I haven't had it crash or spontaneiously reboot for updates for weeks at a time.
14:37:23 <DHess_US> Had to disable hyperthreading. :(
14:37:58 <DogWomble> all this talk of old baud rates reminds me of bbs'ing back in the early 90s, when all i had was an old 2400 baud modem
14:38:07 <DogWomble> that was various versions of slow
14:38:43 <Ampera> DogWomble, imagine that, but 1/8th as fast, that's what SAGE had for remote access
14:38:46 <Ampera> or whatever they did
14:38:49 <DHess_US> I bought a USR Courier Dual Standard HST, so HST and V.32, for $1100 in about 1990.
14:39:04 <Ampera> 1100 on a modem, what the hell did they put in those
14:39:12 <DogWomble> that sounds painful amp :)
14:39:14 <DHess_US> V.32, full duplex 9600, was brand new at the time.
14:39:36 <DogWomble> yeah, i knew faster modems were available, i just didn't have access to money to buy one :)
14:39:40 <Ampera> My server is incredibly stable, and has had 0 unintended downtime
14:40:41 <Ampera> It was a really awesome build, and I recently put in some more RAM, bringing it to 18GB
14:40:56 <Ampera> I'm monitoring the transfer from here too
14:40:56 <DHess_US> Ampera, a USR Courier HST was 14,400 in one direction and like 1200 in the other but could swap. It was the most common of the proprietary standards. The USR Courier HST Dual Standard had a daughter board with an entire Rockwell V.32 9600 full duplix modem on it.
14:41:02 <DHess_US> That is what made it so expensive.
14:42:39 <DHess_US> I bought that with a new computer at the time. Micronix motherboard with 66Mhz 486DX2, 8M of RAM, 64k of external direct mapped cache.
14:42:40 <Ampera> I mean was this microcontroller based? How were they put together?
14:42:53 <Ampera> DX2 66 was out in 1990?
14:43:24 <DHess_US> And a Micropolis 8760E ESDI hard drive for 670M of storage. Just the hard drive and controller were $1000 then.
14:43:38 <DogWomble> i thought the dx2 was a little later than that - 92/93?
14:43:45 <Ampera> that must have been 1992 by my wikipedia
14:43:46 <DHess_US> It was about that time.
14:43:55 <Ampera> alright
14:43:57 <DHess_US> I bought it maybe a few months after the DX2 was released.
14:44:05 <DHess_US> So 1992 then.
14:44:10 <DogWomble> i rmmember the pc i had at home at the time was a 386sx/16
14:44:16 <Ampera> If that's the sort of cash you dropped then, what do you have now?
14:44:28 <DHess_US> I still have the 8760E and controller for it. It holds 1 CD worth of data.
14:44:39 <Ampera> My slowest machine isn't even that slow, it's a DX4-120 (100 OC to 120) AMD
14:44:41 Nick: rrn is now known as spacetechnician
14:44:43 <DHess_US> 15Mbit/s so 1.5MB/sec transfer rate.
14:44:48 <spacetechnician> Heh I know an individual whom bought an old minicomputer + disk platter drive + terminals in like '80.
14:45:21 <Ampera> what would you even do with a machine like that in 1980
14:45:35 <Ampera> I mean you had enterprise purposes, but if this is an individual as a overpowered PC
14:45:48 <spacetechnician> Ampera: He did it just for fun---he was not a technical person.
14:46:16 <DHess_US> DOOM and DOOM2 ran great on the 66 MHz 486
14:46:17 <spacetechnician> Ampera: I saw the drive (it was the size of a washing machine)---it was manufactured in like '70.
14:46:28 <Ampera> Are you saying he did this recently, or that he properly /bought/ a minicomputer in 1980 as an individual
14:46:49 <DogWomble> i remember studying around 2000, one of the rooms still had the false floor from the pdp/11
14:47:00 <spacetechnician> Ampera: No, he bought it in like '80, so about 39 years ago---this in Pennsylvania.
14:47:06 <spacetechnician> * was in
14:47:15 <DHess_US> Cal Poly Pomona still had a Cyber computer in 1990.
14:47:26 <Ampera> Did he have like a spare million?
14:48:03 <spacetechnician> Ampera: No, he was a drug dealer and smuggler, came from a poor family, and his degree was in K--12 teaching.
14:48:08 <spacetechnician> Ampera: It was a CMU auction.
14:48:09 <DogWomble> i'd love to have an old machine like that, i have no space for it though
14:48:22 <Ampera> right
14:48:48 <Ampera> I actually have a pretty nice collection of mid-mid 90's to 2000's PCs
14:49:15 <spacetechnician> Ampera: He's not really a degenerate person nor completely dumb...he has some interests, shall we say.
14:50:41 <Ampera> One I was playing with recently was my Pentium Pro, which I fixed all the problems with and got to a blistering 233Mhz
14:50:53 <spacetechnician> Ampera: I remember, the drive had this separate ``HARD DRIVE EXERCISER'' unit with various toggle switches, apparently diagnostics.
14:51:27 <DogWomble> a hard drive exerciser sounds like you got a workout driving a car with some very annoying passengers
14:51:30 <Ampera> DHess_US, I'm really curious though, how /did/ the PPro stack up against the PMMX 233?
14:52:01 <spacetechnician> Ampera: I took it apart---it was a grid of socketed logic ICs dating from '70, with the circuit board using wire-wrap.
14:52:45 <DHess_US> Ampera, you serious?
14:53:11 <DogWomble> i might be wrong, but wasn't the pentium pro closer in design to the pentium 2?
14:53:11 <DHess_US> For 16 bit applications which was most of them then, the PMMX was faster.
14:53:18 <Ampera> but by how much
14:53:19 <DHess_US> Yes DogWomble
14:53:35 <Ampera> and what about P6 OC
14:53:38 <Ampera> *PPro OC
14:54:03 <DHess_US> It was enough to be noticable. The problem was that the PPro couldn't handle multiple 8 and 16 bit accesses to the 32 bit register file.
14:54:16 <spacetechnician> Anyway, the reason I came here...is anyone here (or elsewhere) interested in microwave and mm wave SETI?
14:54:51 <DogWomble> well i don't know huge amounts about the technology, i do run seti@home on occasion though, as well as a few other boinc projects
14:54:54 <DHess_US> The big advantage of the PPro wasn't speed. It was server support stuff like more memory and more processors.
14:55:24 <DogWomble> i'm not completely up to speed on the science and technology of SETI though
14:55:40 <DHess_US> And of course the PPro was the direct ancestor of the Pentium II. It almost pionered the whole instruction translation thing.
14:55:52 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: I presume that you're in Australia? Do you have a rural or exurban site for >= 1 4--5 m diameter radiotelescope(s)?
14:56:08 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: Though for mm wave the diameters will be lower.
14:56:17 <Ampera> DHess_US, the thing is, in my testing, I had a hard time noticing the different between my MMX 233 and Pentium Pro
14:56:22 <DogWomble> i'm in australia, i live in an apartment, not sure if that's suitable for you
14:56:35 <Ampera> even with faster SDRAM, games weren't much effected, though they were all 32 bit code
14:56:47 <Ampera> running on Win9x however
14:56:50 <DHess_US> Ampera, the PPro would have been faster with 32 bit only applicaitons.
14:56:52 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: Ha, ok, never mind, unless you're planning on relocating later in life.
14:57:09 <Ampera> Stuff like WinQuake and Half-Life (Glide)
14:58:17 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: As for the analysis software---it's not BOINC but a Gnuradio-based radio astronomy package which will run on a GNU/Linux minicomputer.
14:58:25 <DHess_US> I'd still be using my AMD K6-3 systems if the motherboard batteries hadn't died.
14:58:31 <DHess_US> They would make good routers.
14:59:14 <DHess_US> Oh, and that Mcronics system I bought was EISA.
14:59:21 <DHess_US> I never had an EISA card to use in it though.
14:59:41 <Ampera> I've never used nor seen (IRL) EISA, but afaik it was mostly NICs and drive controllers
14:59:49 <Ampera> kinda like PCI-X
15:00:03 <spacetechnician> it's not that old
15:00:15 <DogWomble> yeah, i don't think there was much else that was EISA as it was hard drive controllers and NCI's that benefitted most from the extra performance
15:00:36 <DHess_US> Graphics cards could have used it but it didn't take off.
15:00:41 <Ampera> I have a couple of PCI-X systems
15:00:50 <DHess_US> I have a couple PCI-X cards.
15:00:52 <Ampera> Well no they had VLB by the time it was /really/ a problem
15:01:01 <Ampera> which is my favourite expansion system of all time
15:01:10 <Ampera> I have a PCI-X SATA II controller
15:01:22 <DHess_US> I don't remember if that Micronics system was VLB. It probably was since it had a 486. The VLB is just the 486 external bus.
15:01:37 <DogWomble> yeah, vlb was an interesting beast
15:01:38 <Ampera> aye
15:01:51 <Ampera> What's even more interesting is VLB/386
15:01:57 <Ampera> which was a thing that existed
15:02:03 <spacetechnician> Old PCs are boring...does anyone here have any VAXs or other old minicomputers?
15:02:08 <spacetechnician> * VAXen, rather
15:02:11 <DogWomble> i believe the VLB was partly responsible for why they ditched the 486DX50 and replaced it with a DDX2/50 - the VLB didn't like being run faster than 40mhx
15:02:57 <DHess_US> The other bus clocks were tied to the processor clock so VLB wasn't the only one to have that problem.
15:03:03 <Ampera> I love the idea that (in theory) my VLB 486 has a faster bus than PCI
15:03:06 <DHess_US> PCI wouldn't have liked it either.
15:03:22 <DHess_US> Yea, although you could overlock PCI also.
15:03:34 <DogWomble> PCI was primarily 33mhz, and later 66 wasn't it?
15:03:41 <Ampera> Yeah even to this day many busses are based to some degree on 33.3Mhz
15:03:47 <spacetechnician> They couldn't do too much---no Internet, no real graphics, no multitasking and multiuser, etc.
15:03:50 <DHess_US> My spare 1.2GHz P3 system sitting here can overclock its PCI.
15:04:09 <DHess_US> DogWomble, yes, there was a 66MHz PCI version
15:04:17 <DHess_US> And a 133MHz version
15:04:29 <Ampera> spacetechnician, what do you mean? The minicomputer was the first computer to bring literally all of those concepts to real fruition.
15:04:44 <spacetechnician> Ampera: I mean, old PCs---boring.
15:04:45 <DHess_US> So PCI could be 33, 66, 132 and 32 bit or 64 bit
15:04:47 <Ampera> Unix, arguably the greatest multi user multitasking OS of all time
15:04:49 <Ampera> oh
15:04:59 <DHess_US> No
15:05:06 <DHess_US> No Ampera, that would be Minix
15:05:09 <Ampera> My PPro machine can underclock PCI to 30Mhz
15:05:17 <Ampera> DHess_US, nice meme
15:05:23 <DHess_US> Ampera, not joking.
15:05:30 <Ampera> neither am I
15:05:38 <Ampera> but my name is torvalds and yours is tannenbaum
15:05:42 <DHess_US> In order to be greatest, it has to be able to page out the page in handler
15:05:43 <Ampera> and oh look this is usenet I guess
15:06:15 <DogWomble> is usenet still alive?
15:06:19 <DHess_US> Yes
15:06:26 <DHess_US> For porn anyway
15:06:31 <DHess_US> And binaries
15:06:35 <DogWomble> i haven't really ventured into usenet
15:06:35 <Ampera> I've never used it, and afaik many ISPs block access to it
15:06:43 <Ampera> I have no clue how it works honestly
15:06:50 <Ampera> and wikipedia didn't help much when I went looking
15:06:52 <DogWomble> well my isp until a few years back actually had their own usenet server
15:06:54 <DHess_US> No, they don't block access to it. They just do not host it.
15:07:01 <Ampera> ah
15:07:13 <Ampera> but how did it work
15:07:24 <DHess_US> You can buy a usenet subscription for cheap and download as much as you want without anybody noticing.
15:07:24 <spacetechnician> Hmm Usenet is superior to WWW fora in some ways...
15:08:04 <DHess_US> A usenet client is a lot like an SMTP (email) client except you can download headers in a forum separately from messages.
15:08:17 <Ampera> Why do you need a subscription
15:08:24 <DHess_US> usenet and email are very very closely related.
15:08:37 <DHess_US> Because you need access to a usenet server\
15:08:56 <DHess_US> There are free usenet servers but htey enforce limitations.
15:09:04 <spacetechnician> Eternal September is of free monetary cost
15:09:31 <DHess_US> I used to subscribe to supernews, https://www.supernews.com/
15:09:38 <Ampera> So it's an internet protocol just like anything else
15:09:45 <Ampera> how is it structured, as far as content goes
15:10:21 <DHess_US> There is basically a hierarchy of 30,000 newsgroups.
15:10:25 <spacetechnician> I mean, its architecture is universal and decentralized...imagine chatting on Slack or Discord instead...
15:10:49 <Ampera> So they all interconnect distributively?
15:10:52 <DHess_US> The servers trade traffic between themselves and the users access throught he servers.
15:11:18 <DHess_US> Yes, the servers connect to each other and transfer messages back and forth.
15:11:26 <DogWomble> kinda reminds me somewhat of the old FidoNet system
15:11:36 <spacetechnician> FidoNet is shit
15:11:39 <DHess_US> So taking out a server does't kill anything.
15:11:54 <spacetechnician> in contrast to uucp and uucp-derived modern systems
15:12:06 <DogWomble> yeah, but Fidonet is what we had back in the old BBS days
15:12:15 <Ampera> DHess_US, so is /all/ Usenet data hosted by /all/ servers?
15:12:18 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: Yes, for hobbyists and untechnical people.
15:12:28 <DHess_US> Ampera, yes
15:12:34 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: Actual Internet access was available since '74 or so.
15:12:38 <Ampera> that sounds like it doesn't scale well
15:12:52 <DHess_US> Not all servers host all newsgroups.
15:12:52 <DogWomble> Ampera i think some enforce some restrictions, so for bandwidth reasons they might not host the binary-based groups
15:13:05 <DHess_US> And each server has a different retention policy.
15:13:23 <DHess_US> But yea, the big usenet servers are massive.
15:13:45 <Ampera> Maybe I'll have to check it out some day
15:14:03 <DHess_US> They were massive even back in 2000
15:14:28 <DHess_US> Of course massive back then isn't that massive now.
15:14:29 <DogWomble> yeah, i kinda suspect that's why my isp silently canned ussenet, the resources and admin required to support usenet was disproportionate to the number of people still using it
15:15:15 <DHess_US> Looks like 8TB a day now so still pretty massive.
15:15:57 <DHess_US> So supernews must have a 9000TB news spool.
15:17:18 <DHess_US> How common are 9PB storage arrays these days?
15:17:38 <Ampera> lol
15:18:04 <Ampera> That was odd, my window manager just crashed
15:18:10 <Ampera> or maybe it was X
15:20:54 <Ampera> I'm gonna take a quick break from listening to ELO to listen to The Kinks
15:22:49 <DHess_US> I blame Al Gore.
15:22:55 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Changing hosts
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15:22:55 Mode: (by lego.jp.austnet.org) +o DogWomble
15:23:29 <DogWomble> i'm thinking Al Gore should start a band, just so he can create the Al Gore Rhythm
15:24:16 <Ampera> DHess_US, for my wm crashing or for me listening to The Kinks?
15:24:35 <Ampera> I mean for anything, it's probably safe to blame gore, but still
15:27:12 <Ampera> I am listening to the best song of all time, Waterloo Sunset
15:27:46 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: Do you know anyone whom might be interested? Unfortunately Australian hackerspaces tend to use Facebook in lieu of IRC for whatever reason.
15:28:35 <DogWomble> i mgiht be able to ask around, i know one person who has a huge property in rural WA, the only problem is that internet access otu there is spotty at the best of times
15:29:57 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: I'm unable to /msg b/c I'm unregistered.
15:30:05 <spacetechnician> DogWomble: What part of Australia is WA?
15:30:27 <DogWomble> wwestern auustralia
15:30:35 <spacetechnician> Oh, ok.
15:30:39 <Ampera> spacetechnician, register with services, or send your complaints to damian
15:30:52 <Ampera> who can either fix is so it's not stupid, or tell someone else to fix it so it's not stupid
15:32:09 <DogWomble> well i suspect that's done to try and reduce spammy IM's
15:32:29 <Ampera> which has never been a problem for me
15:32:43 <Ampera> and can be swiftly fixed by such amazing features like a block
15:33:03 <DogWomble> of whicch i don't disagree :)
15:33:24 <Ampera> The sacrifice of, almost nobody can IM each other without dealing with the overly complicated auth system that has no AoC
15:33:30 * Ampera grumbles further
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16:36:53 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Who remembers when sub-for-sub was a thing on @YouTube ...
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18:31:40 <K> hello
18:38:52 <T3sl4> hey
18:41:51 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: How YouTube turned 3000 subs into 450! https://t.co/0gXa7YPkBP
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20:07:08 <desu> hi
20:12:05 <K> yes.
20:22:09 <Stiff> anyone running a HDMI splitter?
20:31:20 <Stiff> switch sorry not splitter
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23:49:28 <Lord_of_nothing> re
23:49:37 <Lord_of_nothing> Now I am back with "my" Username
23:49:51 <Lord_of_nothing> How does everyone here feel?
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