// #d&d — 2013-04-23
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00:00:25 <Falang> oh wild, Beyond the Crystal Cave, I very specifically remember some of that module
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02:35:04 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Thurs 25th 1pm (tier 5-9,Mekkis) / Sat 27th 10am (tier 1-5,Avatar) | WotW: Sat 4th 1pm || All topic times are AEST (UTC+10:00); set up your timezone on the site for local times in the Schedule! | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
02:35:04 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sun Apr 21 22:47:29 2013
02:35:04 <***> Buffer Playback...
02:35:05 <***> Playback Complete.
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03:56:55 <Mekkis> no
03:56:59 <Steven> well... its 1 round casting time.
03:57:12 <Steven> and then at the lowest level you can cast it, it lasts 5 minutes
03:57:14 <Mekkis> Ruben used it
03:57:29 <Avatar> what's wrong with it
03:58:25 <Mekkis> 3d6 damage, reflex half is really too low for a standard action, especially at later levels
03:58:27 <Steven> i tend to find its more useful when you know you're going to be entering into combat within a minute or two
03:58:33 <Mekkis> 3d6 is only 10.5 damage
03:58:48 <Avatar> in a 30ft line
03:59:24 <Mekkis> 30' VERTICAL line
04:00:10 <Mekkis> so if you're in a situation where there are three creatures on top of each other, you can hit them all
04:00:33 <Avatar> shit, that does suck
04:01:03 <Mekkis> it's like almost every other divine damaging spell
04:01:06 <Avatar> I read it as a 30ft line of vertical bolts
04:02:16 <Mekkis> Conquest hasn't been reported yet, right?
04:03:24 <Avatar> it wasn't last night
04:03:53 <Mekkis> oh well.. maybe I should email my VC and get him to enter it manually :S
04:04:04 <Avatar> what do you need to know
04:04:16 <Mekkis> what scenarios I played
04:04:28 <Avatar> don't you have chronicle sheets
04:04:31 <Mekkis> King of Stoval stairs, Feast of Sigils
04:04:34 <Mekkis> and one other one
04:04:40 <Avatar> fortress of the nail?
04:04:45 <Mekkis> yeah, but it's in my car
04:04:54 <Mekkis> no, I played that in Brisbane
04:06:35 <Mekkis> maybe warhorn will tell me
04:07:14 <Mekkis> ah
04:07:17 <Mekkis> Enemy's Enemy
04:18:13 <Steven> 5th level feat for my loremaster/living monolith
04:20:35 <Avatar> dodge
04:28:01 <Steven> he has, iron will, power attack, endurance combat expertise combat reflexes weapon focus heavy flail weapon specialization heavy flail
04:29:05 <Mekkis> greater iron will
04:29:23 <Mekkis> improved trip
04:29:28 <Mekkis> improved steal
04:31:53 <Avatar> improved iron will
04:41:31 <Steven> hmmm, dont want to steal, he's a Lawful dude
04:42:00 <Steven> mebe imp iron will if i cant find anythinge else worth a shit
04:43:37 <Steven> oooooo arcane vandetta
04:46:53 <Steven> wow that is actually pretty awesome feat
04:46:57 <Steven> Destroy Itendity
04:47:07 <Steven> !feat destroy identity
04:47:09 <diebot> Steven, DENY DEATH []Prereq: Ki pool, Endurance Your ki is so strong that it can deny death.
04:47:09 <diebot> Benefit: As long as you have 1 ki point in your ki pool, when you fail your Constitution check to stabilize, you do not lose 1 hit point. If you succeed at the check, you can spend 1 ki point to heal 1d6 hit points. If you roll a natural 20 on the check to stabilize, you can spend 1 ki point to heal 2d6 hit points of damage instead. Source: UM
04:47:17 <Steven> darn
04:47:37 <Steven> prereqs of crit focus, bab of 11 and worshiper of lamashtu
04:48:02 <Steven> when you confirm a crit, target takes 2 cha damage and become staggered for 1 round, no save
04:48:47 <Avatar> if you're a gunslinger, don't take crit focus
04:49:49 <Steven> not a gunslinger, lore warden
04:56:27 <Steven> could get a bite attack
04:58:08 <Steven> oh there we go, quick draw.
04:58:14 <Steven> so under rated, but so awesome
04:59:45 <Avatar> really?
05:00:49 <Steven> yup
05:01:03 <Steven> drawing a weapon as a free action... pretty good
05:02:18 <Steven> like, say... surprise round, monster charges you hits with the grap special quality.
05:02:22 <Steven> grapples you
05:02:58 <Steven> you draw a scimitar as a free action and still get to make full round attack
05:03:46 <Steven> or if you get swallowed hole by something, free action draw your light piercing weapon and stab away.
05:04:08 <Steven> its expecially useful for ranged characters, and so few ranged characters take it.
05:05:04 <Steven> at level 5 probably not super useful, but i have a feat thats picking between toughness and imp iron will
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05:07:16 <Avatar> you don't get to make a full round attack if you're grappled
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05:07:53 <Steven> says who?
05:07:56 <Avatar> why would drawing your weapon quicker allow you to do that
05:08:03 <Avatar> that doesn't make any sense
05:08:32 <Steven> grappled just makes it so you cant attack with a two handed weapon
05:08:48 <Steven> gives you -4 to dex and -2 to attack.
05:09:11 <Steven> there is no prohabition for making more than one attack
05:09:45 <Avatar> <?grappled
05:09:45 <diebot> A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a 4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a 2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to
05:09:46 <diebot> perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity. // A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as
05:09:46 <diebot> hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.
05:11:38 <Avatar> Instead of attempting to
05:11:39 <Avatar> break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that
05:11:39 <Avatar> requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or
05:11:39 <Avatar> make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against
05:11:39 <Avatar> any creature within your reach, including the creature that is
05:11:39 <Avatar> grappling you.
05:11:57 <Avatar> that sounds like make an attack action
05:12:42 <Steven> and no where does it prohibit a full attack.
05:12:58 <Avatar> an attack action is like an attack of opportunity
05:13:10 <Steven> i can make a full attack with a one handed weapon.
05:13:30 <Avatar> but not as an attack action
05:15:47 <Steven> can you show me where it says you cant take full round actions while grappled?
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05:26:31 <Steven> i dont remember how to like things out of the PRD, you'd think i'd know how considering its the rules source i use.
05:27:05 <Steven> link even
05:27:31 <niconorsk> Find the page, copy paste the URL?
05:27:51 <niconorsk> And you can full attack while grappled
05:27:59 <Hydrazine> Hm.
05:28:00 <Steven> If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler,
05:28:01 <Steven> grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach,
05:28:01 <Steven> including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.
05:28:07 <Steven> im waitin for the DC
05:28:15 <Hydrazine> Scimitar? No. Light weapon, natural, or unarmed? Yes.
05:28:26 <Hydrazine> http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lccp?Outmaneuvered-II-Revenge-of-the-Grappled#discuss
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05:30:02 <Steven> cool no DC
05:30:14 <Steven> and yes hydra you can use a scimitar, as its a one handed weapon
05:31:02 <Hydrazine> Did you read what I linked?
05:31:27 <Steven> yup
05:31:37 <Steven> did you read what i linked from the PRD
05:31:44 <Steven> it clearly states light or one handed weapon
05:32:00 <Hydrazine> Okay, so we have a source that says light or one handed, and another that says light/unarmed/natural.
05:32:50 <Steven> your source is dated 2011
05:33:24 <niconorsk> http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9og8
05:33:38 <niconorsk> How about the FAW for a source?
05:33:44 <niconorsk> *FAQ
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05:34:25 <Steven> Faqs trump blog posts
05:34:54 <Steven> unless its a recent(less than a week or two) at which point they usually ahvent updated the faqs
05:35:31 <Steven> anyways, back to the original thing, yeah quickdraw is amazing.
05:35:47 <Steven> cause, i dunno bout anyone else, but being swallowed totaly sucks.
05:37:48 <niconorsk> Yeah. Never had it happen to me but sounds painful. Wand of grease usually gets me or my party members out of grapple situations
05:38:09 <Steven> grease is pretty good
05:44:00 ChanOP gives channel half-operator status to dicebot
05:45:33 <Steven> there all leveled up
05:46:21 <Steven> what sucks is that i wont get to play him again till they come out with new scenarios
05:50:07 <niconorsk> So, Thursday then?
05:50:27 <niconorsk> Oh wait what level is he?
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05:52:01 <Steven> yup
05:52:24 <Steven> probably not gonna play em for a few weeks
05:52:28 <Steven> try to save up a couple
05:55:02 <Falang> er, how many sources of continual flame can 1 player have?
05:55:15 <niconorsk> 1
05:56:18 <niconorsk> Well, 1 that comes from a casting of the spell that carries across scenarios
05:56:47 <Falang> yeah, that's what I read, had me wondering. but if I buy it as an item I should be cool with several yes?
05:57:00 <Brunius> Should be
05:57:13 <Falang> That seems like a silly thing to write in the rules, I mean if you can cast the spell what damn difference does it make where it came from..
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05:57:59 <Brunius> You can't track it
06:01:22 <Falang> how the hell am I supposed to buy a wand of CLW if I haven't found one in an adventure yet? kinda screwed..
06:02:21 <niconorsk> 1st level wands are always available
06:02:53 <niconorsk> as are 1st level potions and scrolls for that matter
06:03:40 <Falang> oh? I must have misread that section
06:03:48 <niconorsk> Never mind, just double-checked. Wands are not.
06:03:51 <Falang> now where is that last pfs chronicle sheet..
06:04:27 <niconorsk> However, the standard recommendation is to spend 2 prestige for a free 750gp purchase.
06:04:44 <niconorsk> Guess how much 1st level wands ost. :)
06:06:07 <Falang> ah-ha, found it.. mort sent it as a jpg..
06:06:31 <Falang> Oh i've got gold to burn, but if I can't buy it I can't buy it, does PP bypass that?
06:07:55 <niconorsk> Yeah it does
06:08:12 <Falang> excellent.
06:08:55 <Falang> I need to get all this done, haven't had time to level up my sorcerer since the last game and obviously I have some purchases to make since i've got around 2k in gold now
06:10:31 <Falang> hell, I barely even spent any of his 150 to start with.
06:34:37 <Brunius> You can use PP to get a wand
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07:33:24 <Falang> I'm correct in that other than potions, scrolls, a wayfinder, and things under 750gp purchased with PP you can't buy any other magic items unless you've 'unlocked' them via an adventure? no cheap misc magic items?
07:36:28 <Falang> I mean I've never seen any real useful magic items so far in any of these, at this rate I'll never get a bag of holding or a handy haversack
07:36:34 <niconorsk> Well, once you have enough fame you can buy anything. And don't forget +1 weapons and +1 armor is always available
07:38:20 <niconorsk> Like a handy haversack would be available once you have 13 fame, so somewhere around level 4
07:38:37 <Falang> yeah, but that's not so useful for a sorc. anyway, I'll get by for another few levels..
07:38:53 <Falang> ah, not so bad.
07:39:06 <Falang> so the fame unlocks it, okay.
07:39:10 <Falang> thanks for clearing that up
07:39:39 <niconorsk> No worries, the item purchase rules can be confusing
07:40:19 <Falang> after version 4.03 or so they should have cleaned that up!
07:43:25 <niconorsk> Whats your sorcerer's current fame, btw?
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07:43:58 <niconorsk> If its above 5, you can purchase anything less than 500gp
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07:57:17 <Falang> nah, if Fame is by PP points earned, I'm at 4.
07:57:30 <Falang> actually, I don't see where they clearly define Fame points
07:57:39 <Falang> I'm assuming it's along with PP.. who knows.
07:58:25 <niconorsk> Its the total amount of PP earned
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07:59:16 <Falang> k, then 4.
07:59:44 <Falang> oh no wait
07:59:45 <Falang> it IS 5
08:00:58 <Falang> so 500gp, swweeeeet. My first game I did as grand lodge, but after that I made a real character and made him shadow lodge, but the points got applied to my first character. so it's 5.
08:01:34 <Falang> really I'd like more like.. 18 fame.. or 22. that would be my sweet spot, I could fit most of the items I want into there.. but this is a good start.
08:44:52 <Mekkis> 20 is a good number
08:45:00 <Mekkis> enough for Raise Dead + 2xrestoration
08:54:16 <niconorsk> You need 24 for that, 16 for the raise +4 each for the restorations
08:54:47 <Falang> well for now I'll just be careful and live with 1 or 2
08:54:58 <niconorsk> Having 5 for body recovery is always good
08:59:57 <Falang> that's what the one adventurer that escaped is for
09:19:16 <Wrothmonk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkTlaF1sP_A How the hell do you guys survive...
09:20:05 <Mekkis> Falang, the reason that adventurer escaped was because he knew Dimension Door and was smart enough NOT to hang around
09:20:42 <Mekkis> (or because that character was Ulzef, and was Frightened)
09:21:12 <Mekkis> as in, he was Frightened, and did not stop running until he was back in Absalom
09:26:58 <Falang> I was joking Mekkis, settle down..
09:27:16 <Falang> we got our asses kicked in that first game I played here, one guy got away and freed us later, that's what I was referring to.
09:27:27 <Mekkis> ah
09:27:29 <Mekkis> wasn't me
09:28:20 <Falang> Obviously knowing when to run away is useful! I certainly agree there, and you won't catch me sticking around when death comes a'knocking!
09:30:06 <Mekkis> it was interesting during Race for Runecarved Key. We needed to exit a building quickly, so Ulzef used his "I jump through the crowd, look at my +40 acrobatics" technique, I Dimension Doored the gunslinger and the paladin
09:30:24 <Mekkis> and the druid and his companion was left to die...
09:31:18 <Mekkis> long story short: if you're planning on running, and someone can Dimension door, get next to them, or your allies they can reach within one move action
09:32:23 <Falang> yeah..
09:33:13 <Falang> actually that makes me think of this high level adventure we played once, it was supposed to be a slaughter, designed that way, and it was completely. we got about an hour or two into the game and walked into this room with half a dozen beholders and the party was just dead, except for me, in a few rounds.
09:33:36 <Mekkis> and you used D-Door?
09:33:47 <Falang> being a wizard, like 16th level or so I think, I got some revenge while I lasted
09:34:16 <Falang> no, I think I just used THE door, they were all up in front, I simply closed it and ran away after 2 of them died, this was 2e.
09:34:30 <Mekkis> ah
09:34:37 <Falang> there was nothing I could have done in a round or two to save anybody, it was a slaughter.
09:35:16 <Falang> I did use magic jar to get the revenge though, possessed one of them with it and attacked the others.. took out as many as I could.
09:36:29 <Falang> I forget how the rest of that went, but I think I either kinda suicided or we just quit. we had just whipped the characters up because somebody had the module and it sounded fun.
09:36:50 <Falang> wasn't much point with 1 lone wizard left in a killer dungeon and everybody else sitting there bored
09:37:06 <Falang> wish I could remember what the name of it was
09:37:58 <Falang> I do recall that there was this huge door.. it could only be opened by blood. So the figher got one of our followers, bob the cleric I believe it was, to 'donate' some. *chuckles*
09:38:19 <Falang> it was all rather tongue in cheek and hilarious at the time, we were all just teenagers
09:38:47 <Falang> "So... Bob.. it's Bob right? We're going to need your help with something..."
09:39:04 <Falang> a not-insignificant amount of blood
09:42:31 <Mekkis> ..
09:52:12 <N2H4> Well.. have you read Dune?
09:53:47 <Falang> what? we were just screwing around
09:54:02 <Falang> but come to think of it, I think I did escape with DDoor or teleport
09:55:48 <Falang> I should really find out what that module was..
09:58:48 <Falang> good old AD&D classics.. Ravenloft.. Castle Amber..
10:00:32 <Falang> The Village of Hommlet.. and of course the rest, Temple of Elemental Evil
10:01:09 <Falang> oh wild, Beyond the Crystal Cave, I very specifically remember some of that module
10:01:51 <Wrothmonk> I dont believe so
10:09:18 <Steven> sup.
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10:09:59 <Farang> Sup
10:11:03 <Wrothmonk> I'm trying to find the cheapest possible items to increase a magus' concentration bonus
10:11:15 <Wrothmonk> since I've already covered feats and traits
10:12:49 <Steven> im sure there are some.
10:12:55 <Steven> i just cant remember them
10:12:55 <Farang> Of course you are
10:13:31 <Wrothmonk> I've found the headband of intelligence (rather obvious) and I'm looking at spells for potions
10:14:38 <Wrothmonk> hrm Fox's cunning
10:14:51 <Wrothmonk> +4 to int
10:15:39 <Wrothmonk> level 2 caster level and lasts 2 min
10:15:45 <Wrothmonk> 1 min per level
10:15:49 <Wrothmonk> looks promising
10:17:40 <Wrothmonk> 300gp for one potion
10:21:14 <Wrothmonk> Well... I could go alchemist
10:21:37 <N2H4> Why is it so big of a deal?
10:23:18 <N2H4> I mean, I understand why the concentration checks are important. I don't see why its so difficult to get it high enough to suit your needs.
10:23:51 <Wrothmonk> Well currently I have the equivalent spell failure of wearing studded leather
10:24:22 <Wrothmonk> Thats with combat casting as a feat and the focused mind trait
10:24:49 <Wrothmonk> oh studded leather for osirion spells
10:25:05 <Wrothmonk> it jumps up to 25% failure with level 1 spells
10:25:37 <Wrothmonk> I haven't found anything that directly increases concentration
10:25:54 <N2H4> cantrips. Mages have cantrips. Divines have orisons.
10:26:16 <Wrothmonk> ok it gets confusing
10:28:00 <Farang> Ditching the armor sounds like your best solution
10:28:13 <Wrothmonk> except the armor isnt whats effecting it
10:28:25 <Wrothmonk> its the fact that I have to cast defensively.
10:28:32 <Farang> Ohh.
10:28:38 <N2H4> good tactics?
10:29:03 <N2H4> cast, 5ft in, attack.
10:29:19 <Farang> No character is perfect
10:29:23 <Wrothmonk> magus use touch spells
10:29:27 <N2H4> and?
10:29:30 <N2H4> you can hold a charge.
10:29:41 <Wrothmonk> ?
10:29:44 <Wrothmonk> How so
10:30:03 <N2H4> look up touch spells.
10:31:34 <Farang> Survive a few levels, get feats to fix it later, like every other magus I'm assuming
10:31:55 <Wrothmonk> can you give me a page number?
10:32:42 <N2H4> you could take a penalized attack roll for a higher concentration check.
10:32:52 <Wrothmonk> That I can
10:33:48 <Mekkis> you could consider not casting high-level spells when you need to do it defensively
10:34:13 <N2H4> Pg 185.
10:34:24 <Mekkis> you could consider not playing a magus
10:34:25 <N2H4> its perfectly legal to cast a touch spell, move into melee, then touch.
10:34:30 <Mekkis> I'd be very happy about that
10:34:54 <Wrothmonk> You are correct about that
10:37:14 <Wrothmonk> However I believe you would still take the AoO
10:37:38 <N2H4> wrong.
10:38:13 <N2H4> a touch spell is considered an armed attack.
10:38:40 <Wrothmonk> then why cast defensively?
10:38:50 <Mekkis> because casting provokes
10:38:55 <N2H4> because CASTING it still provokes.
10:39:00 <Wrothmonk> Oh
10:39:01 <N2H4> touching does not.
10:39:02 <Wrothmonk> I see
10:39:24 <N2H4> so if you cast far, move in and touch, no AoO, no need to cast defensive.
10:44:37 <Steven> suuuuuuuup.
10:44:43 <Steven> im back.
10:47:59 <N2H4> Hm.
10:48:03 <N2H4> ?spell warding weapon
10:48:08 <N2H4> Balls.
10:49:12 <N2H4> Check out that spell, Wroth. Its in UC.
10:49:55 <Steven> and wroth there are items with +cast defensively
10:50:00 <Steven> look up spellguard bracers
10:50:47 <Mekkis> !search cast defensively
10:50:48 <diebot> Mekkis, Spellguard Bracers
10:50:59 <Mekkis> there is one item
10:51:05 <Mekkis> !item Spellguard Bracers
10:51:06 <diebot> Mekkis, SPELLGUARD BRACERS [faint abjuration] CL:4 wrists 5000gp, 1lb
10:51:07 <diebot> Typically made of leather dyed blue and decorated with star-shaped studs, these bracers are used by spellcasters who practice their art in the heat of combat. The bracers grant the wearer a +2 bonus on concentration checks made to cast defensively. Three times per day, the wearer can choose to roll a concentration check to cast defensively twice
10:51:07 <diebot> and take the better result. Source: Ultimate Equipment
10:51:36 <Mekkis> I find that bonuses to concentration get worse as you increase your level
10:52:19 <Steven> yup
10:52:49 <Mekkis> so wasting a feat on it seems unreasonable
10:52:57 <Mekkis> but then again, I don't play magi
10:57:08 <Steven> well, most times you need to cast defensively is a massive check of 17
10:58:21 <Steven> so lets say you built poorly, and went with a 14 int
10:58:54 <Steven> at level 5 you will have a +7 to your concentration meaning you will ahve to roll average to succeed.
10:59:44 <Steven> at level 10, with no increase to your int, you will have a +12 to concentratin
11:00:22 <Wrothmonk> at level 1 my magus gets +10 casting defensively
11:02:45 <N2H4> ...And you think thats insufficient?
11:06:14 <Falang> IRC really needs a facebook 'Like' feature..
11:22:17 <Mekkis> why?
11:23:12 <Mekkis> IRC needs people like Khaled Mardam-Bey to stop putting "features" into it that aren't specified by the protocol.
11:25:45 <Falang> 'cause I wanted to 'like' that comment so badly.
11:25:53 <Falang> "<N2H4> ...And you think thats insufficient?"
11:26:29 <Mekkis> well... program a bot to save quotes
11:26:54 <Falang> well... thanks but no thanks, it was sufficient for me to say I liked it I think.
11:27:14 <Falang> "^Like!"
11:33:27 <Mekkis> but regardless, I would say that when you need a DC of 17, +10 IS insufficient if you want to do it reliably
11:33:35 <Mekkis> otherwise you'd see more wizards in chain shirts
11:33:55 <Wrothmonk> With my luck?
11:34:13 <Mekkis> I would also say that I think the magus is a stupid class
11:34:22 <Mekkis> and I don't see the appeal of it
11:34:34 <Mekkis> - especially when I see what people DO with it
11:34:47 <Wrothmonk> What do they do with it?
11:35:00 <Steven> !thow 5#1d20+10
11:35:10 <Steven> !throw 5#1d20+10
11:35:11 <diebot> Steven, 5#1d20+10: [1d20=9] 19, [1d20=20] 30, [1d20=7] 17, [1d20=14] 24, [1d20=14] 24
11:35:26 <Steven> well i suceeded every time on my check to cast shocking grasp
11:35:28 <Mekkis> I understand the concept is generally something like "cast shocking grasps through a weapon"
11:35:56 <Mekkis> the kind of spell-slinging light-weapon character
11:36:36 <Falang> I don't think I'd even take shocking grasp, there are plenty of combat enhancing spells better than that.. you should be enhancing your combat in ways that a fighter can't, not just dealing extra damage
11:37:00 <Wrothmonk> !throw 5#1d20+10
11:37:01 <diebot> Wrothmonk, 5#1d20+10: [1d20=8] 18, [1d20=19] 29, [1d20=11] 21, [1d20=4] 14, [1d20=12] 22
11:37:06 <Mekkis> but it tends to devolve into someone who half the time casts extremely powerful shocking grasps, and the other half of the time is casting /light/ on his enemies in order to get an additional hit.
11:37:33 <Wrothmonk> I managed to fail one
11:38:43 <Steven> cant cast light on an enemy, but i see Arcane Mark a lot
11:38:54 <Mekkis> Steven, OK, so in your sample of five, you didn't fail. Even though you had a 30% chance of failing. Would you play a wizard who wears Chainmail?
11:38:56 <Wrothmonk> How does that get an extra hit?
11:38:59 <Falang> arcane mark? why?
11:39:20 <Wrothmonk> actually its 25% mekkis
11:39:29 <Mekkis> you fail on 1-6
11:39:32 <Mekkis> that's 30%
11:39:34 <Steven> Probably not
11:39:51 <Mekkis> we're talking the same spell failure chance
11:40:08 <Steven> because i have mage armor
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11:41:00 <Mekkis> mithril full-plate then
11:41:02 <Steven> and the reason you do arcane mark is because its a touch spell
11:41:53 <Steven> no, its a gold investment to nerf my character that imparts negatives to attack.
11:42:20 <Steven> and the thought with a wizard is to never see melee combat
11:42:38 <Steven> at least it is with my wizards/sorcs
11:43:53 <Mekkis> what about using a tower shield?
11:44:52 <Steven> my answer isnt changing.
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11:47:27 <N2H4> technically, casting light or arcane mark on an enemy wouldn't result in the free hit.
11:48:03 <Mekkis> unfortunately, it does
11:48:11 <N2H4> why?
11:48:37 <Mekkis> "'cause the rules say it does"
11:49:08 <Steven> because of spellstrike
11:49:20 <N2H4> Hm. Okay, Arcane mark works, light doesn't.
11:49:29 <N2H4> unless your enemy qualifies as an object.
11:49:34 <Mekkis> it's a stupid interaction
11:50:42 <N2H4> I think I would rather arcana my way into using ranged touch spells melee, and use daze and acid splash.
11:51:01 <Steven> most magus do that.
11:51:17 <Mekkis> when they hit third level or so
11:51:27 <Mekkis> or sixth
11:52:31 <Steven> or when they can pick a feat for an extra arcana
11:53:46 <Mekkis> because everyone knows that 1d8+1+1d3 is 1.5 damage better than 1d8+1
11:55:31 <N2H4> Well if you consider it in regards to the magic skillset, attacking twice+1d3 is better than attacking once or attacking twice+nothing
11:55:35 <N2H4> magus set
11:55:53 <Mekkis> sure
11:56:00 <Mekkis> but the concept just seems stupid
11:57:23 <Mekkis> Steven, does Magic Missile work against Blink?
12:02:00 <Steven> yeah
12:02:03 <Steven> its a force effect
12:09:00 <Mekkis> so "Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you're blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Your own spells have a 20% chance to activate just as you go ethereal, in which case they typically do not affect the Material Plane (but they might affect targets on the Ethereal Plane)." doesn't apply?
12:09:07 <Mekkis> it's superceded by the last line?
12:10:53 <N2H4> My stance, is that since force effects DO work, it would be the 20% miss chance, not the 50.
12:11:07 <N2H4> And magic missile ignores miss changes from anything less than total concealment/cover.
12:14:50 <Mekkis> N2H4, you never compromise in Pathfinder if there's a grey area. You need to decide one way or the other.
12:15:12 <Steven> magic missiles will hit you because they are a force effect, the provision of it is spelled out in the blink spell.
12:15:33 <Mekkis> so the last paragraph does supercede the above one. OK
12:15:42 <Mekkis> I'll need to email my VC regarding this
12:18:14 <Steven> why didnt you just look up blink?
12:18:45 <Mekkis> I did, but I didn't think it was worth arguing with the GM at the table at the time.
12:19:40 <Falang> they do hate that
12:21:02 <Mekkis> it's generally better to accept the ruling and discuss it after the game
12:21:38 <Steven> usually because it just slows down the game a bunch, im the same way
12:22:04 <Steven> the only time i've ever argued rules was with bobby GMing
12:23:14 <Mekkis> the only time I've stopped the game to argue rules was in Race for Runecarved Key when the table GM ruled that two characters died due to boxtext
12:23:59 <Steven> with his invis bard riding an invis giant bat, who was dropping summon monsters at us, but because we were in an opera house the acustics prevented us from knowing what square he was in.
12:24:39 <Mekkis> either that's a Kaer Maga scenario, or I haven't played it
12:24:41 <Steven> and oh man, we argued to the point walter came out of the back room
12:24:51 <Steven> it was a kaer maga scenario
12:25:25 <Mekkis> identifying the square by sound is a pretty high perception, right?
12:26:22 <Steven> yeah
12:26:29 <Steven> but he was refusing to even let us make perception checks
12:26:58 <Steven> because the accustics prevent pin pointing
12:27:29 <Falang> uh.. I'm no expert but I think they're designed to prevent pinpointing from the STAGE, anywhere else in the place is not the same.
12:30:44 <***> Buffer Playback...
12:30:44 <***> Playback Complete.
12:33:09 <Falang> in fact, I think that would be almost impossible.. I mean think about riding an invisible motorcycle.. in the air.
12:33:29 <Mekkis> I'd definitely give +5 for "Terrible Conditions"
12:33:33 <Falang> that's alive and knows what it's doing better than you do..
12:33:39 <Falang> but you can't tell what it's doing
12:34:10 <Mekkis> + distance
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13:41:25 <Steven> alright back
13:41:29 <Steven> i went to the store
13:56:13 <Steven> so bored now...
13:57:00 <Mekkis> can you take cover behind an invisible flying mount?
13:59:23 <Steven> iunno
14:03:14 <niconorsk> You would think so. A glass door still provides cover
14:06:21 <Mekkis> can you then use said cover to use the Stealth skill?
14:06:56 <Falang> ya know.. I saw something interesting the other day when I was reading about magic weapons.. it says in Core that 30% of magic weapons glow with the radiance of a Light spell. Yet I never see it mentioned anywhere if an item glows or not. Is that something you're supposed to roll later?
14:07:28 <Mekkis> as far as I can tell, I'd let you choose whether or not you want it when you get the weapon
14:08:13 <Steven> you can choose whether your weapon glows or not, because it very rarely makes a mechanical difference
14:09:04 <Falang> might not make a mechanical difference, but it's a free source of light if you're wielding a weapon.. sad that you can't shut the light off though.
14:09:42 <Steven> sheathe your weapon
14:10:51 <Falang> well obviously, but that's not what I meant.
14:11:58 <niconorsk> Mekkis: no, because its soft cover and you can't use that to make stealth checks
14:12:00 <Steven> kinda wanna play some bioshock
14:12:17 <Mekkis> niconorsk, it never says you need HARD cover to make stealth checks
14:12:26 <Mekkis> it just says that you need cover
14:12:37 <niconorsk> It does in the rules for cover
14:13:00 <niconorsk> Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide
14:13:00 <niconorsk> you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4
14:13:01 <niconorsk> bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus
14:13:01 <niconorsk> on Ref lex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a
14:13:01 <niconorsk> Stealth check
14:13:45 <niconorsk> Another case of Pathfinder having rules spread out in 5 different places
14:13:52 <Falang> niconorsk: er.. does that apply to ranged attacks when there are enemies between you and another enemy? I've been in a few of those and I was wondering at the time..
14:14:09 <Mekkis> where does it say that using a mount as cover provides "soft cover"?
14:16:09 <niconorsk> Is your mount not a creature?
14:16:13 <Mekkis> To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).
14:19:17 <Falang> oh, well then.. I shall remember that next time somebody's shooting at me.
14:33:54 <Mekkis> niconorsk, that's why I give my mount a Familiar Sachel, and make myself tiny :)
14:36:21 <Falang> heh, you had a point there niconorsk, it does seem like the rules are rather scattered around..
15:03:13 <Mekkis> the stealth rules in Pathfinder don't work... very well... at all
15:03:22 <Mekkis> (it's one reason why rogues suck)
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15:50:47 <Falang> there must be alternate rules, why don't you guys use some?
15:51:06 <Mekkis> there aren't really...
15:51:11 <Falang> and why isn't this clear issue addressed by Paizo?
15:51:37 <Falang> I mean you guys all agree, I guess it must be universally thought..
15:51:52 <Falang> what's the issue? too hard to hide? rolls suck?
15:51:55 <Mekkis> "It is a truth universally acknowledged that..."
15:52:35 <Mekkis> "...a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."
15:52:55 <niconorsk> Even if there were alternate rules, we can't use them in PFS
15:53:21 <Mekkis> Falang, what do you THINK stealth should enable one to do?
15:54:25 <Falang> Don't be a smartass, I know what stealth is supposed to allow you to do, I'm asking WHY doesn't it?
15:54:53 <Mekkis> how can I answer that question if you're not telling me what you think it's supposed to allow you to do?
15:55:27 <Mekkis> my views on what I think stealth should allow you to do is coloured by what I've read and experienced.
15:55:41 <Falang> a) quietly do things b) do things unseen.
15:56:08 <Falang> things including moving or even standing still. obviously there are lighting issues involved..
15:56:27 <Mekkis> the problem is with b)
15:56:42 <Falang> because of concealment?
15:57:11 <Mekkis> if you're trying to sneak up on someone, no matter how good you are at stealth, you can't do it unless there's something to hide behind, or some form of concealment.
15:57:33 <Falang> that's hardly true, all they need to do is be facing another direction
15:57:55 <Mekkis> sorry
15:58:01 <Mekkis> in pathfinder, that is the case
15:58:13 <Falang> no facing rules? they have flanking etc..
15:58:33 <Mekkis> pathfinder does not have facing rules
16:00:08 <Falang> so... you can't attack someone from behind because they're considered to have eyes in the backs of their heads?
16:00:39 <Mekkis> no, they're considered to be tracking their surroundings
16:00:40 <Falang> wouldn't it be a... what's it called.. crap. can't remember the term. you roll, they roll, highest wins.
16:00:47 <Mekkis> opposed roll?
16:01:16 <Mekkis> they are used, but only when there's cover or concealment - or when the hider has Hide In Plain Sight
16:02:59 <Falang> I'm curious as to why they don't fix this considering how badly it screws over rogues
16:03:18 <Mekkis> because they hate rogues?
16:03:27 <Mekkis> because rogues are meant to suck?
16:03:49 <Mekkis> because... it'd be hard to actually... write rules in a way that worked?
16:04:05 <niconorsk> I'm going for option c
16:04:17 <Mekkis> they tried actually
16:04:42 <Mekkis> http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcml?Stealth-Playtest-Round-TwoStealth#1
16:04:48 <Mekkis> http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lckz?Stealth-PlaytestStealth
16:06:17 <Mekkis> I don't believe it actually went anywhere
16:09:17 <Falang> a little more care in designing and laying out dungeons and the like could help with things. more obstacles and the like. details on lighting conditions.. I've noticed that not once is lighting mentioned in descriptions of rooms, yet I can supposedly see everything around quite clearly even underground..
16:12:42 <Falang> http://davidvs.net/games/pathfinder-hips.shtml
16:12:53 <niconorsk> Lighting seems to be brought up quite often to me. Usually just in a sort of what's your light source kind of way
16:13:47 <Steven> until you get multiple layering effects going on
16:14:03 <Steven> some people dont understand that stuff
16:21:56 <Falang> niconorsk: yeah, but not in the way of the existing enviornment, it almost seems to me as though everything is totally dark if not for the presence of our lights.
16:26:59 <Mekkis> Steven, I don't understand lighting and darkness
16:27:01 <Mekkis> :S
16:27:30 <niconorsk> When underground it usually is totally dark because the creatures that live there have darkvision and don't need light
16:28:27 <Mekkis> So, if I have a torch, it gives off light in 20/40 correct?
16:29:07 <Mekkis> I then cast /darkness/ centred at a point 10' away from the torch
16:30:26 <Mekkis> now... the torch doesn't give off light, except in the arc 10'-20' away from the torch on the other side of the darkness?
16:31:23 <Falang> I'm certainly going to start asking what the lighting conditions are, and what sources of light there are, because it's pretty clear that it's important.. I find all this barging through doors and hurling ourselves blindly into combat in every encounter to be more than a tad cliche, especially considering our enemies are hiding just fine in ambush every time we do.
16:35:03 <Mekkis> it's your choice to hurl yourself blindly into combat
16:36:47 <Falang> no, it's not. because I've never done it.
16:36:51 <Falang> everybody else is.
16:38:16 <Mekkis> that's when you close the door and walk away whistling
16:39:01 <Falang> rest assured, I shall.
16:41:33 <Steven> yeah avatar tried that... then they set a fire... got captured and tortured
16:45:14 <Falang> we got captured and tortured because we were down a player and too gungho. He resisted me on the setting fire thing, that was my idea. I wanted to burn the doors down as well. Then we charged into obscurement... which we should have just gone back out of. too much facing them on their terms and not enough facing them on OUR terms.
16:46:14 <Falang> we had the upper hand, if it wasn't this 'hurry up and fight' mentality we could have just camped at the top of the hole and waited for them. or set traps. or gotten the Wargs to help us. any number of things.
16:46:35 <Falang> instead it's always open the door, go in, fight in trap conditions.
16:48:34 <Falang> in that tower game of Mort's, the flaming skeletons.. same thing. if we'd gone out into the chamber to fight them rather than, ahem, close the door like I said, they'd have both burned us to a crisp and exploded too, taking out the whole party.
16:49:00 <Falang> as it was we nearly lost one player
16:51:05 <Steven> no, you guys had 4 people.
16:51:44 <Falang> we lost wroth at the start
16:51:51 <Falang> just left
16:52:00 <Steven> and still had 4 people
16:57:40 <Falang> *shrug*
16:57:59 <Falang> I was pregen, and I kicked ass
16:59:41 <Falang> if it wasn't for that hostage, i'd have finished that bitch off.
17:03:42 <Falang> which, come to think of it, wouldn't have happened if somebody didn't charge past me and engage her when I was already moving to do that
17:04:49 <Steven> probably not, you hadnt even eaten through her temporary HP
17:11:35 <Steven> by herself shes not horrible, but with the other guys she gets to being very hard to kill because she has herself some meatshields
17:12:40 <Steven> and that giant pit in that room really worked against you guys
17:13:23 <Steven> if the barb had had a way to just walk up to her, he coudl have done a substantial amount of damage to her.
17:17:02 <Falang> we had them isolated up in the corner
17:17:17 <Falang> He did try to walk up to her, that's how he ended up Held and on the floor with a knife to his throat
17:20:23 <Steven> yeah, if it wasnt in that room more than one person could have gotten up near her
17:20:37 <Steven> would have been much easier on you guys
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17:31:00 <Mekkis> Avatar's character got tortured again?!
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17:36:53 <Steven> yeah... i let em off light with some torture
17:37:13 <Mekkis> torture as in -1 con, as per Aspis torture?
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17:52:56 <Falang> meh. mostly just put in a cage and not fed for a few days
17:53:06 <Falang> not Torture torture.
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18:04:14 <Mekkis> Ah
18:04:19 <Mekkis> not Aspis-style torture
18:05:55 <Mekkis> who wants to uptier Rebel's Ransom?
18:09:04 <Avatar> why, do you want us dead
18:09:31 <Mekkis> well....
18:09:36 <Mekkis> no
18:09:41 <Mekkis> I never want you dead
18:09:48 <Avatar> or some variation thereof
18:10:13 <Mekkis> remember, in August, chances are uptiering will be unavailable!
18:10:19 <Mekkis> take advantage of it while you can!
18:10:25 <Falang> I'm tempted, but.. I'm only 2nd level.
18:10:37 <Mekkis> Falang, if you're playing a pregen, there's NO RISK!
18:10:42 <Falang> if I was 3rd, it might be another story. Depends on what level the other players are.
18:10:48 <Falang> oh, that's right. nevermind. sorry.
18:10:56 <Falang> was thinking of Avatar's game not yours
18:10:57 <Mekkis> (and given that it's a 5-9, you'll be playing a pregen)
18:11:08 <Avatar> the risk is your party all dies
18:11:41 <Avatar> not everyone will only think of themselves when they play :P
18:12:13 <Avatar> btw mekkis, I saw your comment on the GM credit thread today
18:12:18 <Avatar> top-notch message
18:12:31 <Avatar> with the triple conjecture
18:13:18 <Mekkis> yeah. I told you I spoke to Brock about that
18:13:41 <Mekkis> I think giving credit on the first run, then on the third run, then on the sixth run would be good
18:15:38 <Avatar> I can't believe the negativity in that thread
18:15:48 <Avatar> "if you're GMing for credit, you shouldn't be GMing"
18:15:50 <Avatar> ??
18:15:50 <Avatar> wtf !
18:16:28 <Avatar> purplefluffbunny's reputation is quickly going down the drain in my books, she gets emotional over everything
18:16:38 <Avatar> she's like the lawful good character who hates people who are neutral
18:19:09 * Falang gives Avatar an award for nerdiest gamer phrase of the day
18:20:22 <Mekkis> I'm sure that I can beat that.
18:20:52 <diebot> I'm sure I can too.
18:21:17 <Falang> doesn't count if you're trying
18:21:51 <Steven> yup, doesnt count if you're trying
18:22:19 <Avatar> Mekkis: do we get the usual benefits for levelling up to level 3 in WotW
18:22:32 <Avatar> or do the private upgrades we got replace some of it
18:22:34 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
18:22:47 <Avatar> do we still get a feat and spells and class abilities
18:22:59 <Mekkis> the stuff that Thorn as taught you is in addition to your levelling, assuming you levelled
18:23:08 <Avatar> okay
18:23:16 <Avatar> sorry that wasn't clear before
18:24:47 <Falang> whew, that curry for lunch was pretty nice. I'm stuffed. almost bloated..
18:26:24 <Avatar> holy shit, 7 people for echoes of the overwatched already
18:27:12 <Avatar> I'm probably going to be aiming to run two games a month, trying to see if I can run 1 local game a month
18:27:21 <Avatar> and have a weekend free
18:27:51 <Avatar> more than that and I'll start burning out
18:30:39 <Mekkis> I'm thinking of making a druid who doesn't have an animal companion, but instead buys animals to use as his companion
18:33:19 <Mekkis> I'm assuming that "Animals: all animal companions on pages 28–29 are legal for purchase." is incorrect, given that no price exists for said animals
18:37:29 <Steven> clearin off completed events
18:37:33 <Steven> i should have done this before
18:37:48 <Mekkis> none of my events are completed
18:39:08 <Steven> i should do this after each event
18:39:10 <Steven> but damn im lazy
18:39:21 <Mekkis> what do you class as an "event"
18:39:59 <Steven> game days.
18:40:23 <Mekkis> is it bad that I'm using the same event for all my online stuff?
18:40:45 <Steven> yup
18:41:09 <Mekkis> don't you use 20068 for everything you do on here?
18:41:41 <Steven> nope
18:45:04 <Avatar> why is it bad
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18:46:10 <Steven> inacurate number of events
18:46:49 <Avatar> but that is sort of like 'friends' on facebook
18:47:00 <Avatar> they aren't necessarily friends, it's just whose feed you read and vice versa
18:47:04 <Avatar> it's a term for lack of a better one
18:48:11 <Steven> okay... mike goes into the tech support guys and says hey im doing a report for lisa on the growth of PFS to get more money for PFS.
18:48:26 <Steven> I need all the figures for games within the last year.
18:48:45 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure mike knows about this kind of thing going on
18:49:04 <Avatar> if he went asking for that - unlikely - he'd want to expect inaccurate results
18:49:40 <Steven> if somebody uses 1 event code per 5-10 games, it doesnt record which day those games were played on, so you have one day where somebody aparantly GMed 5-10 games and then nothing for 3 months.
18:50:36 <Steven> even though they might be playing every other week.
18:50:45 <Steven> it complicates the data.
18:51:13 <Brunius> Hmm
18:51:19 <Brunius> What are you arging about?
18:52:02 <Steven> arent arguing.
18:52:15 <Brunius> what are you discussing in a seemingly heated fashion?
18:59:29 <Steven> yay all done
19:00:59 <Avatar> we're arguing about you brunius
19:01:05 <Avatar> again
19:01:17 <Steven> I spared you from getting banned
19:02:12 <Brunius> seems legit
19:02:34 <Avatar> yeah steven was about to ban you
19:02:44 <Avatar> I said no no dont do it steven
19:02:49 <Avatar> and we had an argument for a while
19:02:59 <Avatar> and then you were spared
19:03:19 <Steven> yup
19:03:27 <Steven> exacty how it happened
19:06:40 <Avatar> some joker on the forums said he had an amulet of iomedae that gives +2 AC vs evil
19:06:46 <Avatar> does anyone know what that is
19:07:39 <Falang> oh yeah that thing.
19:07:50 <Falang> It gives a +2 AC vs. Evil.
19:08:07 <Falang> *nod*
19:08:26 <Avatar> link to it
19:09:33 <Falang> sorry, too busy for that. I have faith in you finding it.
19:10:07 <Falang> not just faith, CONFIDENCE. You can do it.
19:10:47 <Steven> Im far to lazy to go search for myself
19:16:34 niconorsk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
19:19:51 <Falang> well I'm far too full of shit to even know where to look for it. ;)
19:19:59 <Wrothmonk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkTlaF1sP_A How the hell do you guys survive...
19:41:57 <Brunius> Brief search doesn't find it
19:42:08 <Brunius> Perhaps a scenario specific item?
19:42:56 niconorsk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
19:52:55 <N2H4> Well.. have you read Dune?
20:02:35 <Wrothmonk> I dont believe so
20:04:29 <Avatar> no such thing
20:04:32 <Avatar> it is a fake
20:04:49 <Avatar> cmon, amulet of iomedae
20:04:58 <Avatar> it even sounds fake
20:10:02 <Steven> sup.
20:10:43 <Farang> Sup
20:11:47 <Wrothmonk> I'm trying to find the cheapest possible items to increase a magus' concentration bonus
20:11:59 <Wrothmonk> since I've already covered feats and traits
20:12:00 <Steven> i wouldnt be surprised if it were real
20:13:33 <Steven> im sure there are some.
20:13:38 <Steven> i just cant remember them
20:13:39 <Farang> Of course you are
20:14:00 <Avatar> no problem, find it
20:14:11 <Steven> why would i?
20:14:15 <Wrothmonk> I've found the headband of intelligence (rather obvious) and I'm looking at spells for potions
20:14:21 <Avatar> you said it was real
20:14:29 <Steven> thats not what i said
20:14:58 <Avatar> you cant' just say something and then mean something else
20:15:22 <Wrothmonk> hrm Fox's cunning
20:15:35 <Wrothmonk> +4 to int
20:15:40 <Steven> im practicing to be a politition
20:16:23 <Wrothmonk> level 2 caster level and lasts 2 min
20:16:28 <Wrothmonk> 1 min per level
20:16:32 <Wrothmonk> looks promising
20:18:24 <Wrothmonk> 300gp for one potion
20:21:58 <Wrothmonk> Well... I could go alchemist
20:22:21 <N2H4> Why is it so big of a deal?
20:24:02 <N2H4> I mean, I understand why the concentration checks are important. I don't see why its so difficult to get it high enough to suit your needs.
20:24:35 <Wrothmonk> Well currently I have the equivalent spell failure of wearing studded leather
20:25:06 <Wrothmonk> Thats with combat casting as a feat and the focused mind trait
20:25:32 <Wrothmonk> oh studded leather for osirion spells
20:25:49 <Wrothmonk> it jumps up to 25% failure with level 1 spells
20:26:20 <Wrothmonk> I haven't found anything that directly increases concentration
20:26:37 <N2H4> cantrips. Mages have cantrips. Divines have orisons.
20:27:00 <Wrothmonk> ok it gets confusing
20:28:44 <Farang> Ditching the armor sounds like your best solution
20:28:57 <Wrothmonk> except the armor isnt whats effecting it
20:29:09 <Wrothmonk> its the fact that I have to cast defensively.
20:29:16 <Farang> Ohh.
20:29:22 <N2H4> good tactics?
20:29:47 <N2H4> cast, 5ft in, attack.
20:30:03 <Farang> No character is perfect
20:30:06 <Wrothmonk> magus use touch spells
20:30:11 <N2H4> and?
20:30:14 <N2H4> you can hold a charge.
20:30:24 <Wrothmonk> ?
20:30:28 <Wrothmonk> How so
20:30:47 <N2H4> look up touch spells.
20:32:18 <Farang> Survive a few levels, get feats to fix it later, like every other magus I'm assuming
20:32:39 <Wrothmonk> can you give me a page number?
20:33:26 <N2H4> you could take a penalized attack roll for a higher concentration check.
20:33:36 <Wrothmonk> That I can
20:34:32 <Mekkis> you could consider not casting high-level spells when you need to do it defensively
20:34:57 <N2H4> Pg 185.
20:35:08 <Mekkis> you could consider not playing a magus
20:35:08 <N2H4> its perfectly legal to cast a touch spell, move into melee, then touch.
20:35:14 <Mekkis> I'd be very happy about that
20:35:38 <Wrothmonk> You are correct about that
20:37:58 <Wrothmonk> However I believe you would still take the AoO
20:38:22 <N2H4> wrong.
20:38:57 <N2H4> a touch spell is considered an armed attack.
20:39:23 <Wrothmonk> then why cast defensively?
20:39:34 <Mekkis> because casting provokes
20:39:38 <N2H4> because CASTING it still provokes.
20:39:43 <Wrothmonk> Oh
20:39:45 <N2H4> touching does not.
20:39:45 <Wrothmonk> I see
20:40:08 <N2H4> so if you cast far, move in and touch, no AoO, no need to cast defensive.
20:45:21 <Steven> suuuuuuuup.
20:45:27 <Steven> im back.
20:48:43 <N2H4> Hm.
20:48:47 <N2H4> ?spell warding weapon
20:48:52 <N2H4> Balls.
20:49:56 <N2H4> Check out that spell, Wroth. Its in UC.
20:50:38 <Steven> and wroth there are items with +cast defensively
20:50:44 <Steven> look up spellguard bracers
20:51:31 <Mekkis> !search cast defensively
20:51:32 <diebot> Mekkis, Spellguard Bracers
20:51:43 <Mekkis> there is one item
20:51:49 <Mekkis> !item Spellguard Bracers
20:51:50 <diebot> Mekkis, SPELLGUARD BRACERS [faint abjuration] CL:4 wrists 5000gp, 1lb
20:51:50 <diebot> Typically made of leather dyed blue and decorated with star-shaped studs, these bracers are used by spellcasters who practice their art in the heat of combat. The bracers grant the wearer a +2 bonus on concentration checks made to cast defensively. Three times per day, the wearer can choose to roll a concentration check to cast defensively twice
20:51:50 <diebot> and take the better result. Source: Ultimate Equipment
20:52:21 <Mekkis> I find that bonuses to concentration get worse as you increase your level
20:53:03 <Steven> yup
20:53:33 <Mekkis> so wasting a feat on it seems unreasonable
20:53:41 <Mekkis> but then again, I don't play magi
20:57:51 <Steven> well, most times you need to cast defensively is a massive check of 17
20:59:05 <Steven> so lets say you built poorly, and went with a 14 int
20:59:38 <Steven> at level 5 you will have a +7 to your concentration meaning you will ahve to roll average to succeed.
21:00:28 <Steven> at level 10, with no increase to your int, you will have a +12 to concentratin
21:01:06 <Wrothmonk> at level 1 my magus gets +10 casting defensively
21:03:29 <N2H4> ...And you think thats insufficient?
21:06:58 <Falang> IRC really needs a facebook 'Like' feature..
21:23:02 <Mekkis> why?
21:23:56 <Mekkis> IRC needs people like Khaled Mardam-Bey to stop putting "features" into it that aren't specified by the protocol.
21:26:28 <Falang> 'cause I wanted to 'like' that comment so badly.
21:26:37 <Falang> "<N2H4> ...And you think thats insufficient?"
21:27:14 <Mekkis> well... program a bot to save quotes
21:27:38 <Falang> well... thanks but no thanks, it was sufficient for me to say I liked it I think.
21:27:58 <Falang> "^Like!"
21:32:16 <Falang> Sounds legit.
21:34:11 <Mekkis> but regardless, I would say that when you need a DC of 17, +10 IS insufficient if you want to do it reliably
21:34:19 <Mekkis> otherwise you'd see more wizards in chain shirts
21:34:38 <Wrothmonk> With my luck?
21:34:57 <Mekkis> I would also say that I think the magus is a stupid class
21:35:06 <Mekkis> and I don't see the appeal of it
21:35:19 <Mekkis> - especially when I see what people DO with it
21:35:30 <Wrothmonk> What do they do with it?
21:35:44 <Steven> !thow 5#1d20+10
21:35:54 <Steven> !throw 5#1d20+10
21:35:55 <diebot> Steven, 5#1d20+10: [1d20=9] 19, [1d20=20] 30, [1d20=7] 17, [1d20=14] 24, [1d20=14] 24
21:36:10 <Steven> well i suceeded every time on my check to cast shocking grasp
21:36:12 <Mekkis> I understand the concept is generally something like "cast shocking grasps through a weapon"
21:36:40 <Mekkis> the kind of spell-slinging light-weapon character
21:37:19 <Falang> I don't think I'd even take shocking grasp, there are plenty of combat enhancing spells better than that.. you should be enhancing your combat in ways that a fighter can't, not just dealing extra damage
21:37:44 <Wrothmonk> !throw 5#1d20+10
21:37:44 <diebot> Wrothmonk, 5#1d20+10: [1d20=8] 18, [1d20=19] 29, [1d20=11] 21, [1d20=4] 14, [1d20=12] 22
21:37:50 <Mekkis> but it tends to devolve into someone who half the time casts extremely powerful shocking grasps, and the other half of the time is casting /light/ on his enemies in order to get an additional hit.
21:38:16 <Wrothmonk> I managed to fail one
21:39:27 <Steven> cant cast light on an enemy, but i see Arcane Mark a lot
21:39:39 <Mekkis> Steven, OK, so in your sample of five, you didn't fail. Even though you had a 30% chance of failing. Would you play a wizard who wears Chainmail?
21:39:40 <Wrothmonk> How does that get an extra hit?
21:39:43 <Falang> arcane mark? why?
21:40:04 <Wrothmonk> actually its 25% mekkis
21:40:13 <Mekkis> you fail on 1-6
21:40:16 <Mekkis> that's 30%
21:40:18 <Steven> Probably not
21:40:35 <Mekkis> we're talking the same spell failure chance
21:40:52 <Steven> because i have mage armor
21:41:44 <Mekkis> mithril full-plate then
21:41:46 <Steven> and the reason you do arcane mark is because its a touch spell
21:42:37 <Steven> no, its a gold investment to nerf my character that imparts negatives to attack.
21:43:03 <Steven> and the thought with a wizard is to never see melee combat
21:43:22 <Steven> at least it is with my wizards/sorcs
21:44:37 <Mekkis> what about using a tower shield?
21:45:36 <Steven> my answer isnt changing.
21:48:11 <N2H4> technically, casting light or arcane mark on an enemy wouldn't result in the free hit.
21:48:47 <Mekkis> unfortunately, it does
21:48:55 <N2H4> why?
21:49:21 <Mekkis> "'cause the rules say it does"
21:49:52 <Steven> because of spellstrike
21:50:04 <N2H4> Hm. Okay, Arcane mark works, light doesn't.
21:50:13 <N2H4> unless your enemy qualifies as an object.
21:50:18 <Mekkis> it's a stupid interaction
21:51:26 <N2H4> I think I would rather arcana my way into using ranged touch spells melee, and use daze and acid splash.
21:51:45 <Steven> most magus do that.
21:52:01 <Mekkis> when they hit third level or so
21:52:12 <Mekkis> or sixth
21:53:15 <Steven> or when they can pick a feat for an extra arcana
21:54:30 <Mekkis> because everyone knows that 1d8+1+1d3 is 1.5 damage better than 1d8+1
21:56:15 <N2H4> Well if you consider it in regards to the magic skillset, attacking twice+1d3 is better than attacking once or attacking twice+nothing
21:56:19 <N2H4> magus set
21:56:37 <Mekkis> sure
21:56:44 <Mekkis> but the concept just seems stupid
21:58:08 <Mekkis> Steven, does Magic Missile work against Blink?
22:02:44 <Steven> yeah
22:02:47 <Steven> its a force effect
22:08:46 <Mekkis> !search iomedae
22:08:49 <diebot> Mekkis, Wardstone,Thorncrown Of Iomedae
22:08:57 <Mekkis> !item Wardstone
22:08:59 <diebot> Mekkis, WARDSTONE [strong abjuration] CL:20 none 0gp, 2500lb
22:08:59 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/items/wardstone.html
22:09:10 <Mekkis> !item Thorncrown Of Iomedae
22:09:12 <diebot> Mekkis, THORNCROWN OF IOMEDAE [overwhelming conjuration and evocation] CL:21 head 0gp, 1lb
22:09:12 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/items/thorncrown_of_iomedae.html
22:09:16 <Mekkis> yay
22:09:19 <Mekkis> two artefacts
22:09:44 <Mekkis> so "Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you're blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Your own spells have a 20% chance to activate just as you go ethereal, in which case they typically do not affect the Material Plane (but they might affect targets on the Ethereal Plane)." doesn't apply?
22:09:51 <Mekkis> it's superceded by the last line?
22:11:37 <N2H4> My stance, is that since force effects DO work, it would be the 20% miss chance, not the 50.
22:11:51 <N2H4> And magic missile ignores miss changes from anything less than total concealment/cover.
22:15:34 <Mekkis> N2H4, you never compromise in Pathfinder if there's a grey area. You need to decide one way or the other.
22:15:56 <Steven> magic missiles will hit you because they are a force effect, the provision of it is spelled out in the blink spell.
22:16:17 <Mekkis> so the last paragraph does supercede the above one. OK
22:16:26 <Mekkis> I'll need to email my VC regarding this
22:18:58 <Steven> why didnt you just look up blink?
22:19:29 <Mekkis> I did, but I didn't think it was worth arguing with the GM at the table at the time.
22:20:24 <Falang> they do hate that
22:21:47 <Mekkis> it's generally better to accept the ruling and discuss it after the game
22:22:21 <Steven> usually because it just slows down the game a bunch, im the same way
22:22:38 Brunius_ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:22:47 <Steven> the only time i've ever argued rules was with bobby GMing
22:23:58 <Mekkis> the only time I've stopped the game to argue rules was in Race for Runecarved Key when the table GM ruled that two characters died due to boxtext
22:24:43 <Steven> with his invis bard riding an invis giant bat, who was dropping summon monsters at us, but because we were in an opera house the acustics prevented us from knowing what square he was in.
22:25:01 <Falang> are there any map.. how do I put this.. bits? deconstructed maps?
22:25:23 <Mekkis> either that's a Kaer Maga scenario, or I haven't played it
22:25:25 <Steven> and oh man, we argued to the point walter came out of the back room
22:25:26 <Mekkis> ?
22:25:34 Brunius has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
22:25:35 <Steven> it was a kaer maga scenario
22:26:09 <Mekkis> identifying the square by sound is a pretty high perception, right?
22:27:06 <Steven> yeah
22:27:13 <Steven> but he was refusing to even let us make perception checks
22:27:42 <Steven> because the accustics prevent pin pointing
22:28:12 <Falang> uh.. I'm no expert but I think they're designed to prevent pinpointing from the STAGE, anywhere else in the place is not the same.
22:28:34 <Falang> kinda matters where you are as a source of sound
22:29:20 <Steven> once walter came out he forced bobby to track his movement, which was flying above our heads 25 ft in the air on his giant invisble bat, without making ride checks.
22:30:12 <Steven> and i can understand not having to make ride checks for riding a mount, but not if its invisible with no saddle
22:30:19 <Steven> while casting
22:30:28 <Falang> no kidding, can't be easy to fly an invisible mount
22:30:34 <Steven> exactly
22:31:10 <Falang> wall sections, chairs, doors, etc
22:31:20 <Falang> so you can easily make your own
22:31:34 <Falang> 'map construction set'
22:31:53 CABot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:32:17 <Mekkis> ,,,
22:32:57 CABot has quit (Connection closed)
22:33:52 <Falang> are we doing this in morse code?
22:36:18 <Mekkis> hmmm
22:38:51 <Falang> obviously i could go nuts with photoshop but why do it if it's already done
22:39:11 <Mekkis> what are you trying to do?
22:39:52 CABot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:39:55 <CABot> 200,0,10,13,255,255,255,1,
22:39:58 <CABot> 200,0,5,10,255,255,255,1,
22:40:02 <CABot> 200,0,1,14,255,255,255,1,
22:40:05 <CABot> 202,0,6,13,255,255,255
22:40:09 <CABot> 224,0,65543,43 106 104 167 255 255 255
22:40:26 <CABot> 204,0,3,7
22:40:50 <Mekkis> anyone want to take a stab about what CABot's saying?
22:41:00 <Falang> ...
22:41:03 <Falang> ookay
22:41:17 <Falang> say if you wanted to make your own adventure, you'd need to create maps for CA
22:41:43 <Falang> maps with trees and rocks and wagons and doors and whatnot in it.
22:42:36 <Falang> something kinda like.. this.. but.. prettier. http://www.dxcontent.com/MAP_Editor.html
22:44:13 <Falang> ah, there are 'map packs'. I guess that could be sliced and diced..
22:46:07 <Mekkis> considering adding them to CA
22:46:15 <Mekkis> but I think CABot takes precedence
22:46:18 <CABot> 224,0,65543,106 127 125 146 255 255 255
22:46:21 <CABot> 204,0,5,6
22:46:21 <CABot> 204,0,5,10
22:46:22 <CABot> 204,0,6,13
22:46:23 <CABot> 204,0,10,13
22:46:28 CABot has quit (Connection closed)
22:46:48 <Falang> the hell was that? I have a pretty good guess but..
22:47:05 <Mekkis> what's the guess?
22:48:08 <Falang> something associated with CA, trying to link irc with mapping functions?
22:48:40 <Falang> those could be coordinates and id numbers
22:48:43 <Mekkis> close
22:49:19 <Steven> IM BACK!
22:50:25 <Falang> Welcome back
22:50:47 <Falang> I'm betting you have an idea of what i'm after?
22:51:07 <Steven> whatcha after?
22:51:21 <Falang> scroll up
22:51:24 <Falang> not far
22:51:46 <Steven> i dont scroll
22:52:45 <Falang> I don't even know what to say to that
22:52:50 <Falang> <Falang> say if you wanted to make your own adventure, you'd need to create maps for CA
22:52:50 <Falang> [19:41] <Falang> maps with trees and rocks and wagons and doors and whatnot in it.
22:52:51 <Falang> [19:42] <Falang> something kinda like.. this.. but.. prettier. http://www.dxcontent.com/MAP_Editor.html
22:52:51 <Falang> [19:44] <Falang> ah, there are 'map packs'. I guess that could be sliced and diced..
22:52:56 <Mekkis> he wants to find map glyphs
22:54:05 <Steven> whatcha talkin bout willis?
22:55:08 <Falang> making your own maps for PF
22:55:17 <Falang> decent looking ones.
22:55:23 <Falang> some kind of construction kit
22:55:29 <Falang> or clip art
22:55:42 <Mekkis> I use inkscape for the kingmaker stuff
22:55:43 <Steven> have you heard of google...
22:56:52 <Falang> I was trying that also, I did provide an example.. it rather depends on terminology. Besides you're always on about the gaming store or whatever.. figured you'd be the person to know
22:57:59 <Falang> Having a hard enough time getting you two to understand it, you want me to rely on google? :)
22:58:13 <Steven> well then it will all be your fault.
22:58:52 <Steven> also, i'll get to be lazy.
23:02:28 <Falang> Mekkis: yeah, I was considering something like that, though I don't know vector well, prolly just go with photoshop..
23:03:18 Proquar ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
23:03:30 <Steven> photoshop good stuff
23:03:33 <Mekkis> fyi, if I ever get around to putting glyphs into CA, it will be SVG
23:03:42 <Mekkis> I love to zoom :)
23:05:05 <Steven> he is a zoomer
23:06:08 <Mekkis> what can I say
23:08:02 <Falang> oh sure, I can't say I'd blame you there, certainly better than raster for an app like that.
23:08:23 <Falang> might be nice to allow players to move their own pieces, that's for sure.
23:09:14 <Mekkis> that's unlikely
23:09:29 <Mekkis> what's more likely is for players to be able to specify a square by clicking though
23:11:44 <Steven> that would be pretty cool
23:12:19 <Proquar> I have a question, mekkis
23:12:28 <Mekkis> go ahead
23:12:31 <Steven> dont do it proquar!
23:12:33 <Steven> its a trap!
23:12:39 * Proquar loves traps
23:12:48 <Proquar> can you just roll a level 5 char?
23:12:54 * Proquar ponders the situation
23:12:55 <Mekkis> of course you can
23:13:03 <Mekkis> ...but not for PFS
23:14:11 <Proquar> ha
23:14:32 <Steven> I like making random characters
23:14:38 * Proquar sighs very deeply
23:14:39 <Proquar> :p
23:14:44 <Mekkis> Are you interested in the ANZAC day game?
23:15:00 <Proquar> Yeah
23:15:09 <Proquar> I have deemed Thursday to be a relaxing day
23:15:20 <Mekkis> Steven can supply you with your choice of eleven quality pregens, I believe
23:15:36 <Proquar> you just play someone else's char?
23:15:43 <Mekkis> (you have the NPC codex, right, Steven?)
23:15:53 <Steven> Yup, i do mekkis
23:16:13 * Proquar blinks unwittingly
23:17:00 <Steven> hmmm.... so next challenge i think im going to do
23:17:26 <Steven> make a viable rogue
23:17:29 <Mekkis> is it possible for you to show them to Proquar?
23:17:55 <Steven> nope
23:19:38 <Proquar> thanks avatar
23:19:50 <Mekkis> http://paizo.com/download/pathfinder/Pregens-Levels.zip
23:19:50 <Proquar> steven, would it help to know that i'd consider playing a cleric
23:19:51 <Proquar> ?
23:19:54 <Mekkis> http://paizo.com/download/pathfinder/Pregens-UC-Levels.zip
23:24:15 <Mekkis> Steven, if I were to have two animal companions, could I switch between which one is "combat" and which is "non-combat" mid-scenario?
23:24:37 <Mekkis> (while not in combat, naturally
23:24:38 <Mekkis> )
23:26:40 <Proquar> afk
23:27:34 Brunius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
23:28:23 <Steven> i dunno, theres a faq on it somewhere
23:33:19 <Steven> hmmmm.... that build would be viable at level 6
23:36:59 <Steven> so... whatcha guys think
23:37:18 <Mekkis> I think it's great!
23:37:29 <Mekkis> I got two CA instances talking to each other over IRC!
23:37:43 <Steven> kick ass
23:38:05 <Steven> So Controlled Rage+Amplified Rage, put all that stuff into Dex
23:38:25 <Steven> so as an inquisitor you could Amplified rage for +4 str/dex/con
23:38:57 <Mekkis> so trying to get ports properly forwarded might be a non-issue!
23:39:44 <Mekkis> that being said
23:39:49 <Mekkis> I should run it by Ballig first
23:39:57 <Mekkis> except that Brunius ballignapped him
23:45:51 <Mekkis> if I even become a VO, I'll make sure my email address is longer than anyone else's
23:46:23 <Mekkis> (the Brisbane VC's is already the longest...)
23:46:31 Proquar has quit (Client exited)
23:46:33 <Steven> but they you would know all the VO secrets
23:46:39 <Steven> then*
23:46:55 <Mekkis> what? by having a long email address?
23:47:07 <Steven> yup
23:48:47 krypt2nite ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
23:52:22 krypt2nite has quit (Quit: )
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