#d&d - 2013-04-16 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-04-16

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12:27 <Falang> *gasp* you multiclassed! you know he's gonna die right? ;)
14:57 <Falang> and to rogue no less
15:43 <Falang> strangely enough I was considering a dwarven fighter just today, don't think I've ever played one
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39:03 <Hydrazine> Go for it.
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52:22 <Steven> fuckin lame ass step brother
52:47 <Steven> decided to let my step brother stay over at my house in our 3rd room
53:04 <Steven> because he is bumping heads with my dad right now
53:27 <Steven> the jackass opens the window in the middle of the night because the room is 'stuffy'
53:57 <Steven> so this morning we all get to wake up to the house being a 'refreshing' 42degrees
54:38 <Steven> for you people in aust, thats 5.5C
08:50 <Hydrazine> Ha. Awesome.
09:39 <Hydrazine> Ain't it great when visitors have no idea how to be respectable guests?
16:11 <Steven> what pisses me off, is that when i woke up and i was like holy fucking balls its rediculously cold
16:25 <Steven> because usually at night we turn the heat down
16:34 <Steven> so it gets to about 60F
17:31 <Steven> i went to find the problem, open the door to the room and close the door
17:35 <Steven> i then turn up the heat
17:44 <Steven> i mean close the window
17:51 <Steven> then turn up the heat
17:57 <Steven> and then i jump in the shower
18:22 <Steven> take a nice long hot shower to warm the hell up
18:41 <Steven> get back out, house still freezing
18:57 <Steven> go back in his room, he got out of bed and opened the window back up.
20:39 <Steven> so i close it and im like dude stop opening the fucking window you are freezing my house and costing me money
20:44 <Steven> no joke
20:51 <Steven> he says this to me
21:21 <Steven> "Dude I'm a guest and its stuffy in here and I want fresh air so open the window and let me sleep."
22:23 <Steven> and i completely understand why my dad is bumping heads with this little fucker.  I almost bumped his head with my fist.
25:08 <Steven> entitled little fucker thinks cause he is sleeping in our house that we owe making him comfortable or some shit.
26:45 <Steven> its like bitch i fed you and i gave you a place to sleep free of charge, and then you go costing me money... wtf!?!
35:15 <Hydrazine> Maybe a little fist to face action would help him understand how the world works.
59:36 <Steven> well its good to know im not over-reacting in my anger.  I am on tilt today as it is.  Probably going to be going into town to put my dog to sleep today.
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20:23 <Steven> just got the call from the vet, theres nothing can be done.  fuck that sucks
28:09 <Steven> scheduled to have my dog put down at 430
29:43 <Steven> methinks tonight, i shall be getting drunk
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12:40 <Hydrazine> Sorry to hear about your dog. Its amazing how close you can get to a good pet.
12:48 <Hydrazine> I've only ever really had one for about a year.
38:04 <Steven> Had my dog for half my life man, cant believe in four hours i'll be burying him.
41:00 <Steven> chokin up and shit.
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40:38 <Valdamon> Hello.
54:19 <Hydrazine> G'day
12:11 <Steven> yo
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48:16 <Mekkis> !spell good hope
48:21 <diebot> Mekkis, GOOD HOPE enchantment (compulsion[mind-affecting, emotion]) bard 3 1 standard action Range: medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) one living creature/level, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart Comp: V, S Duration: 1 min./level Save: Will negates (harmless) SR:yes (harmless)
48:21 <diebot> This spell instills powerful hope in the subjects. Each affected creature gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. Good hope counters and dispels crushing despair.
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38:06 <Steven> well.  Dog is now departed, gonna bury him soon as my bro gets off work
39:17 <Mekkis> I'm sorry to hear that.
39:53 <Steven> yeah it was not a pleasent thing to do, but at least he's not in pain anymore.  Couldnt even stand up for the last 4 days.
40:19 <Mekkis> I suppose you can take that as consolation. But it's still a bitch.
40:24 <Mekkis> No pun intended.
40:34 <Steven> no its cool, magnus was male.
45:28 <Falang> Sorry to hear about the dog, I've had to do that to 2 cats myself, it's not fun..
49:14 <Falang> Though I guess burying your cat is more like burying a snobby roommate you've had for 20 years than a best friend.. 
49:34 <Steven> i dunno, some people get very attached to their cats.
49:46 <Steven> I never had mostly because cats literally kill me.
52:41 <Falang> I was pretty attached, but it's a different relationship, dug her grave with my own bare hands right under a tree. soil was pretty soft.
02:53 <Falang> every pet is a small tragedy you take into your life, a clock ticking away until you lose them.
09:48 <Falang> holy crap, I just heard about the boston marathon bombing. wow.
11:06 <Mekkis> it's been on Australian news all morning
15:20 <Steven> there we go, got him buried.
17:03 <Steven> tomorrow i'll carve his name intoa slab of stone i have.
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38:25 <Mekkis> mechanically or chemically?
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18:12 <Falang> woops, my tablet is still here.
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26:16 <Steven> with a rock chisle
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49:54 <Falang> oldschool
53:14 <Steven> well, its my dog man.  Cant do it half assed.
03:12 <Falang> Oh, I fully agree with ya on that. I was showing my respect for your choice, not questioning it.
12:26 Seph ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
19:04 <Falang> hi seph.
20:24 <Seph> heya
23:00 <Seph> I loosely planned out a couple of characters last night after having a good read on pfs.. and then i realised, evil goblins dont work too well with what I was thinking of playing. >_<
23:41 <Seph> Any idea when Avatar's going to get bored of this WBG module? lol
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26:11 <Mekkis> Avatar's a credit whore
26:19 <Mekkis> he won't run anything he doesn't get credit for
26:41 <Seph> lol
27:15 <Steven> you can always talk to mekkis or I about things to run if avatar says he doesnt want to run them
27:38 <Falang> evil's not allowed in PFS period.
27:47 <Mekkis> except in We Be Goblins
28:22 <Falang> oh that reminds me, I needed a character for that..
28:33 <Mekkis> you don't need a character for We Be Goblins
28:44 <Mekkis> you'll want one to apply the credit to though
29:15 <Falang> Mekkis: you tried out PCGen?  http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/
29:19 <Mekkis> yes
29:29 <Falang> oh, well I've got a character so no probs there.
29:37 <Mekkis> it tries to be too automated
30:04 <Mekkis> it's not that hard to build a character without an automated tool
31:09 <Falang> true enough, but it takes a lot of page flipping and whatnot between books to have the amount of references this gives you with a click. like the filter to show you only feats you're qualified for
31:23 <Mekkis> except that it doesn't
31:51 <Mekkis> it gives you a lot of things, some of which is incorrect, some of which is a grey area
34:28 <Falang> hrm.. it's a shame Enlarge only works on people now
34:53 <Mekkis> yeah
34:57 <Mekkis> doesn't work on asimaar
35:35 <Falang> no I meant objects
35:48 <Mekkis> Shrink Object is fun
35:51 <Mekkis> hmmm
35:59 <Mekkis> what's the volume of metal in a shipping container?
36:04 <Falang> I recall that from 2e
45:15 <Falang> strange, it seems like the 1st level spells in PF are a lot less useful in general than the stuff in 2e was.
45:43 <Falang> less utilitarian functions, they're more specific one trick ponies. Enlarge is a perfect example.
45:55 <Steven> yeah its like they dont want casters to be crazy
46:28 <Falang> or Jump
46:43 <Falang> Jump used to give you a huge jump, one big jump. now it's just a bonus.
47:42 <Falang> Well the whole point in magic classes is to have fantastic rule-breaking abilities that others can't do, in limited amounts.
48:02 <Falang> casters get to redefine the reality to a degree.
48:37 <Falang> why bother taking a jump spell at all for a bonus to a skill, you could just use a grappling hook and rope.
49:02 <Mekkis> because you don't want people to see a rope or hear a grappling hook?
50:15 <Valdamon> I once had a guy who swore up and down there was no way for a melee character to beat a wizard if the wizard was ready to fight.
50:19 <Mekkis> Jump isn't a very good example at all
50:27 <Valdamon> And granted.. its tough.
50:32 <Falang> yeah but nobody is going to use that spell. I don't have 2e handy, but I think it was probably at least a 10' vertical jump
50:44 <Mekkis> !spell jup
50:46 <Mekkis> !spell ju,p
50:48 <Valdamon> Until youtoss a portable hole at the wizards feet and he fails his reflex save.
50:51 <diebot> Mekkis, JUMP transmutation ([]) druid 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, alchemist 1, summoner 1, alchemist 1, summoner 1, magus 1 1 standard action Range: touch creature touched Comp: V, S, M (a grasshopper's hind leg) Duration: 1 min./level Save: Will negates (harmless) SR:yes
50:51 <diebot> The subject gets a +10 enhancement bonus on Acrobatics checks made to attempt high jumps or long jumps. The enhancement bonus increases to +20 at caster level 5th, and to +30 (the maximum) at caster level 9th.
50:59 <Valdamon> Wizards.. ALWAYS have bags of holding. 
51:29 <Mekkis> Valdamon, but the thing is, wizards generally don't go up against fighters 1 on 1, so the whole thing is irrelevant
51:31 <Steven> and now portable holes have specific language that dictate you must spread it out
51:31 <Falang> Valdamon: You can't even use a portable hole like that, you'd have to pull it down over his head.
51:52 <Mekkis> and if they DO, the fighter would be an idiot to let them know
52:01 <Falang> Steven: I think they always said that, i don't recall otherwise and I used to own one.
52:28 <Valdamon> The point I was getting at is.. there is always a way, and sometimes its stupidly simple
52:58 <Falang> a fighter shouldn't take out a *prepared* wizard.
53:00 <Mekkis> like "approach them when they're asleep and 'mow the lawn'"?
53:29 <Mekkis> Oil of silence + grapple
53:44 <Valdamon> Gem of Antimagic
53:48 <Falang> !Spell Longshot
54:00 <Falang> oh well.
54:02 <Mekkis> lower case s
54:09 <Falang> !spell longshot
54:10 <diebot> Falang, LONGSHOT transmutation ([]) alchemist 1, antipaladin 1, inquisitor 1, magus 1, paladin 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: V, S, M/DF (a piece of fletching) Duration: 1 minute/level Save:  SR:
54:10 <diebot> This spell reduces the effect of range, granting a +10-foot bonus to the range increment of any weapon used by the subject.
54:25 <Falang> that's lame. no way would anybody waste a spell slot on that.
54:50 <Falang> same with Gravity bow, it's like having a wizard be some archer's bitch.
54:54 <Mekkis> at levels 1-4, jump is COMPLETELY useless
55:13 <Mekkis> Falang, one of my local players is playing a wizard/ranger who uses gravity bow to great effect
55:23 <Mekkis> !spell expeditious retreat
55:25 <diebot> Mekkis, EXPEDITIOUS RETREAT transmutation ([]) bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, alchemist 1, summoner 1, inquisitor 1, magus 1 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: V, S Duration: 1 min./level Save:  SR:
55:25 <diebot> This spell increases your base land speed by 30 feet. This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus. There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly, or swim. As with any effect that increases your speed, this spell affects your jumping distance (see the Acrobatics skill).
55:39 <Mekkis> that gives a +12 to jump
56:09 <Falang> Mekkis: Well sure, but to a solo wizard it's pointless. which PF encourages highly.
56:40 <Valdamon> PF seems to encourage wizards to be buff bots at lower levels
56:56 <Valdamon> Impression i got, anyways
56:58 <Falang> That's what I'm getting from it, yeah. and that's a cleric's job.
57:00 <Mekkis> Falang, but it's not completely useless
57:03 <Falang> or traditionally has been.
57:29 <Mekkis> some wizards prefer seeing how far Colour spray can take them
57:57 <Steven> Thats what is nice about pfs, it doesnt force people into a specific role
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58:19 <Valdamon> Except paladins
58:27 <Mekkis> even paladins
58:46 <Falang> I've never liked that about Sleep and Color Spray either, they're essentially useless at higher levels. considering how everything else scales and with DC saves and all that.. they should scale up too so they're useful at 10th level.
58:51 <Valdamon> Role: Smiting evil.
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59:07 <Steven> yeah... paladins no longer have to only do that
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59:31 <Steven> i have seen tank paladins, dps paladins, and healer paladins
59:45 <Mekkis> archer paladins
59:49 <Mekkis> mounted
59:55 <Valdamon> But they are still the evil smiters
59:56 <Mekkis> summoning ones
00:14 <Valdamon> They just have more ways of smitage
00:29 * Valdamon loves playing paladins, actually.
00:37 <Mekkis> you could argue that fighers are just evil smiters too
00:46 <Steven> theres even an archtype that gives up smite evil
01:19 <Valdamon> Redeemer is merciful smite, or something like that.
01:27 <Valdamon> And you can redeem evildoers
01:34 <Valdamon> So yeah, point taken.
01:42 <Falang> just seems like they're.. nerfing or neutering magic.
01:44 <Valdamon> But its so much fun to play lawful stupid
02:03 <Falang> !spell burning disarm
02:04 <diebot> Falang, BURNING DISARM transmutation ([fire]) cleric/oracle 1, druid 1, sorcerer/wizard 1 1 standard action Range: Short (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Held metal item of one creature or 15 lbs. of unattended metal Comp: V, S Duration: Instantaneous Save: Reflex negates (object, see text) SR:Yes (object)
02:04 <diebot> This spell causes a metal object to instantly become red hot. A creature holding the item may attempt a Reflex save to drop it and take no damage (even if it is not their turn), otherwise the hot metal deals 1d4 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Circumstances that prevent the creature from dropping the item (such as a locked
02:04 <diebot> gauntlet) mean the creature gets no saving throw. The heat does not harm the item, and it does not get hot enough or last long enough to ignite flammable objects. The item cools to its previous temperature almost instantly. If cast underwater, burning disarm deals half damage and boils the surrounding water.
02:17 <Mekkis> Valdamon, sure, but it gets old. Fast
02:20 <Steven> yes they needed to nerf magic because we didnt want druidzilla/clericzilla 
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02:29 <Falang> get that.. turns metal RED HOT... but won't set anything flammalble on fire.
02:49 <Valdamon> It gets old to the rest of the party fast, sure.
02:59 <Falang> No, they didnt' need to nerf magic. The problem is assuming that it all needs to balance out and make everybody feel special.
03:00 <Valdamon> :)
03:26 <Falang> it's constantly adjusted for more 'play balance'
03:57 <Valdamon> PF is better balanced than 3.5e
04:01 <Falang> you can disarm a guy, but you can't set some papers on fire on desk with a metal paperweight
04:21 <Falang> as though setting fire would be too powerful
04:39 <Mekkis> Falang, I'm not sure what you're getting at
04:42 <Falang> yet you could just throw a torch at it and poof.
04:58 <Valdamon> Yeah that does seem kinda.. eh
05:01 <Valdamon> Arbitrary
05:04 <Falang> Well i think a 1st level spell should at least be on par with any object a character could carry in their backpacks
05:31 <Falang> they describe it.. instantly red hot metal.. but won't set paper on fire.
05:34 <Cyrus> hey all
05:43 <Mekkis> what can a character carry in their backpack that can cause a /burning disarm/ effect?
05:47 <Mekkis> hey Cyrus 
05:53 <Falang> I'm not talking about the disarm effect
05:54 <Cyrus> A bit new to this Combat Assistant interface. Is there any guides explaining how the heck to use it?
06:07 <Cyrus> Just got into Pathfinder, trying to figure it out to start hosting
06:10 <Falang> that's incendnetal, they only made that rule so it made sense. this is a 1st level Heat Metal spell
06:55 <Falang> they just focused it on disarming and it's less useful than it should be, than they even describe it as being. common sense tells you that even a second or two of red hot metal will set things on fire.
07:13 <Falang> and it can be used on unattended objects... to no effect.
07:22 <Valdamon> Yes it will.
07:45 <Valdamon> To heat metal to where it is red.. is.. very, very hot. 
08:14 <Mekkis> ummm
08:16 <Falang> it specifically says it won't start a fire, and if you're not disarming somebody with it, that makes it useless, so why allow it's use on something unattended and up to 15lbs?
08:34 <Mekkis> hot metal in contact with something won't necessarily make it catch fire, you know
08:45 <Mekkis> for that a &spark is a better option...
08:50 <Falang> it MIGHT, it might not, but it's disallowed.
09:05 <diebot> SPARK evocation ([fire]) bard 0, cleric 0, druid 0, sorcerer/wizard 0, witch 0, magus 0 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) one Fine object Comp: V or S Duration: instantaneous Save: Fortitude negates (object) SR:yes (object)
09:06 <diebot> You can make an unattended Fine flammable object catch on fire. This works as if you were using flint and steel except that you can use spark in any sort of weather and it takes much less time to actually ignite an object.
09:08 <Falang> see what I mean, it has ONE single purpose, very focused. like restricting Enlarge to being only creatures.
09:18 <Valdamon> I have an electric stove.
09:31 <Mekkis> ok Valdamon 
09:36 <Mekkis> turn it on to full
09:37 <Valdamon> I'm pretty sure if I heated up the burners and put a piece of paper on them it would catch fire.
09:54 <Valdamon> But if I did that. My fire alarm would go off, and that would wake my daughter
09:55 <Falang> you can't enlarge a door, or a boulder to block a passage, just a guy, a fighter, to do battle for you.
09:57 <Mekkis> put a piece of paper on it, and tell me if it catches fire /within one second/
09:57 <Seph> pretty sure it ont if you touch it for a split second
09:58 <Valdamon> Which is NOT happening.
10:59 <Mekkis> ok
11:01 <Falang> it'll boil water. and you have time to take it off or drop it.
11:13 <Mekkis> you have time to drop it
11:21 <Mekkis> a red-hot piece of steel is 500 degrees C
11:38 <Mekkis> maybe 700 Celcius
11:46 <Falang> and it cools instantly! that would take as much magic as heating it in the first place.
11:49 <Mekkis> for it to start a dim glow
12:11 <Falang> it's nerfed.
12:12 <Mekkis> Autoignition of thick paper is 450 °C
12:13 <Falang> !spell heat metal
12:15 <diebot> Falang, HEAT METAL transmutation ([fire]) druid 2 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) metal equipment of one creature per two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart; or 25 lbs. of metal/level, all of which must be within a 30-ft. circle Comp: V, S, DF Duration: 7 rounds Save: Will negates (object) SR:yes
12:15 <diebot> (object)
12:15 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/heat_metal.html
12:40 <Falang> well shoot, anyway, I'd take heat metal any day over that crap that can only disarm somebody.
12:44 <Falang> 2nd level or not
13:38 <Mekkis> However, the thermal conductivity of paper is 0.05W/(m.K)
13:42 <Falang> I just don't get why it's misleadingly saying you can use it on unattended objects up to 15lbs.. which will do nothing.
14:03 <Falang> they get hot, they cool. nothing. at most you'd spend a 1st level spell boiling a pot of water
14:56 <Falang> 4 years at the wizard school and he's in charge of soup.
15:06 <Mekkis> I don't see how you're complaining that it's nerfed, given that it didn't exist before Pathfinder, and regardless, Pathfinder attempts to be internally balanced, not balanced with something that worked in 2e
15:54 <Valdamon> Thats a good point.
16:48 <Falang> heat metal is pathfinder
16:52 <Falang> and 10x as useful
17:16 <Falang> this makes a wizard into a fighter for 1 disarm 
17:53 <Mekkis> ummm... now you're comparing a 2nd level druid spell with a 1st level wizard spell
18:04 <Falang> Not that it wouldn't be useful in combat, I don't deny that, I'm just saying that the spells seem in general a lot less utilitarian and useful in different ways.
18:39 <Mekkis> a lot less utilitarian than what?
18:56 <Falang> just like Enlarge Person
19:07 <Mekkis> what are you comparing it with?
19:19 <Falang> the previous editions. it's a trend.
19:31 <Falang> Enlarge, Jump, etc.. 
19:32 <Valdamon> I can understand Enlarge Person only working on people. Biological creatures are structured much differently than inanimate objects.
19:45 <Falang> Valdamon: yeah but it enlarges your stuff too
19:48 <Falang> so.. zero sense.
19:58 <Falang> you're not 2x as big and 8x as massive and naked
19:59 <Mekkis> you realise that in order to get spells back in 2e, you would need to rest for, I believe 1 hour per spell level per slot, iirc
20:28 <Mekkis> as opposed to in Pathfinder when you get /all/ you spells back after a night's rest?
20:30 <Falang> I'm not suggesting that, I'm just saying magic is systematically being nerfed more and more every edition
20:54 <Falang> each spell is less and less useful and more focused on buffing some skill or attribute.
21:22 <Falang> I mean.. I couldn't believe it when I saw the whole Eagle's Splendor, etc list.
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21:49 <Falang> what must a wizard be thinking to use those?  "Wow, I think I could really use a bit more wisdom about now!"
22:51 <Steven> yeah...
22:52 <Falang> admittedly that's 3e bull
23:07 <Falang> it's just.. suspension of disbelief breaking to me.
23:12 <Mekkis> Falang, as I see it, you're picking narrow spells and complaining that they're not broad. Spells like Silent Image, Glitterdust, Shrink Object etc have very broad applications
23:23 <Falang> Sure *I* might realize how that would be useful, but it's hard to justify a person thinking that about themselves if you're roleplaying them.
24:08 <Mekkis> I don't understand what you're saying
24:55 <Falang> imagine you're a wizard, when are you ever going to think you're not wise enough and should probably study a spell for it rather than one to protect yourself from arrows or fire?
25:15 <Falang> when you just need to be.. ohh.. 10-20% wiser than you are normally 
25:17 <Valdamon> When you need to make a will save :)
25:36 <Falang> Valdamon: that's breaking the 4th wall though, nobody is going to think that as a person.
25:41 <Mekkis> when you're crafting your companion, the cleric of Erastil, his headband of wisdom?
25:46 <Valdamon> It was a joke
25:51 <Falang> oh, whew! ;)
26:23 <Falang> but nevertheless, that's how it's used isn't it?  A wizard wouldn't even KNOW that being 'wiser' would help that, how does one even measure that?
26:38 <Seph> If you're really dumb enoug to cast it, maybe you will?
27:04 <Seph> That way after you do, you''ll be smart enough to realise how stupid it was.
27:29 <Falang> 'Like'
27:48 <Mekkis> you know that the cleric's wiser than you, and you know that the cleric's spells are more effective when he's wiser, and he's just asked you to make him a headband that increases his wisdom
27:49 <Falang> "Wow, i paid 100gp for this spell? that was dumb"
28:06 <Falang> you don't know that a cleric is wiser than you, that's player knowledge.
28:12 <Falang> people don't think that way.
28:25 <Falang> most people think they're pretty damn wise and smart
29:10 <Falang> admittedly a wizard might be smart enough to appreciate the need for being smarter, but not more wise, it's such an intangible thing.
30:01 <Mekkis> by the third time that the cleric's saved them from being fooled by a skilled liar, there'll be some indication
30:38 <Falang> no person in a game would know any of those things you listed, there's no innate knowledge that being more 'wise' gives you more spells, I doubt clerics would sit around and chat about that and compare wisdom over ale.
31:06 <Steven> On golarion, which is where the pathfinder books are mostly concerned with; wizards, clerics, druids, inquisitors, bards and magic users have been designed to have more Utility/buff spells than straight damaging spells.  It was done this way to make it so late game melee people have the opportunity to do more than witness casters handle fights while the melee guy stands in a doorway keeping people 
31:06 <Steven> from getting to the caster.  Is it really that big of a deal that casters dont get to solo encounters anymore?
32:49 <Steven> I rather enjoy that as a melee person i can occationally do more damage than the maximized empowered fireball, quickened maximized empowered Universal Wizard.
32:54 <Falang> I wasn't even talking about them doing damage
33:10 <Falang> I figure they do that just as well if not better with things like metamagic feats
34:22 <Falang> how is that different from a wizard standing around casting spells to make an archer shoot better?
34:28 <Mekkis> cooperation
34:35 <Mekkis> you're not trivialising the other players
35:05 <Falang> the whole combat system pretty much forces you to cooperate
35:14 <Steven> Point being is you are lamenting magic being nerfed, well thank god for that, because i played all the way up to 3.5 and it was the same thing in every system.  Early game melee>caster Late Game Caster>melee.  Pathfinder has made it so that while wizards are still powerful, melee people are allowed to no longer be the doorstopper.
35:28 <Mekkis> not if the wizard can overpower the encounter before the others can act
35:47 <Hydrazine> Yes, a game designed to played cooperatively with a table full of people forces you to cooperate. How terrible.
36:04 <Falang> Steven: Changing Enlarge to Enlarge person, or screwing with Jump didn't affect any of those things.
36:13 <Falang> I have not once mentioned a combat spell
36:36 <Falang> I pointed out that a spell taht should be more useful was ONLY useful for combat, that I didn't like.
36:50 <Falang> So you're wasting your breath saying that, it's completely not my point.
37:49 <Hydrazine> If all the things a wizard can do are equally useful both in and out of combat, why bring a fighter, who is only really useful in combat?
38:23 <Valdamon> ... Fighters can be useful outside of combat.
38:24 <Falang> so.. if a wizard casting a spell to make an archer shoot better rather than killing things himself is cooperation, how is a fighter shielding a wizard from orcs so he can cast spells making the fighter feel left out?
38:34 <Falang> it's the same damn thing.
39:03 <Hydrazine> I think the difference is one of scale.
39:08 <Hydrazine> Look at color spray for example.
39:20 <Mekkis> Falang, I should start by reminding you that Enlarge was changed to Enlarge Person in 2003, when 3.5e came out. Irregardless, the reason for this was that it WAS overpowered when not used on a person.
39:25 <Hydrazine> A well placed color spray can change a fight in a way a fighter has absolutely no hope of doing.
40:17 <Falang> I think it's more a lack of roleplaying and more the dawn of playerplaying. Roleplaying would mean you guys just want to get out of that encouter alive and work together to do it.. playerplaying means awww.. I don't feel needed enough.
41:02 <Falang> Hydrazine: cleave
41:05 <Valdamon> later all. Have a good day.
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41:34 <Mekkis> what do you mean, Falang?
41:38 <Falang> and Cleave is useful forever.. color spray is useless after a few levels, you'll almost never use it again unless you're up against peasants
41:39 <Hydrazine> A good color spray is beyond cooperation and into the angel summoner and BMX bandit world.
41:52 <Mekkis> ummm
41:56 <Hydrazine> Cleave takes how many rolls to be effective?
41:59 <Falang> multiple targets, does damage.
42:03 <Mekkis> cleave is useless after +6 BAB
42:26 <Hydrazine> Have you seen the difference between 3.5 cleave and Pathfinder cleave?
43:01 <Falang> you still hit multiple targets AND do lethal damage.  gotta run.. hope to resume later..
43:24 <Falang> and again, I was not referring to combat, you guys keep going back to combat magic.
43:26 <Steven> see ya
43:45 <Mekkis> then why bring up cleave at all?
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29:26 <Steven> inner made
33:06 <Steven> dinner
46:47 <Mekkis> Steven, potion of Stoneskin
46:52 <Mekkis> legal in PFS?
46:58 <Mekkis> !spell stoneskin
47:02 <diebot> Mekkis, STONESKIN abjuration ([]) druid 5, sorcerer/wizard 4, alchemist 4, summoner 3, inquisitor 4, magus 4 1 standard action Range: touch creature touched Comp: V, S, M (granite and diamond dust worth 250 gp) Duration: 10 min./level or until discharged Save: Will negates (harmless) SR:yes (harmless)
47:03 <diebot> The warded creature gains resistance to blows, cuts, stabs, and slashes. The subject gains DR 10/adamantine. It ignores the first 10 points of damage each time it takes damage from a weapon, though an adamantine weapon bypasses the reduction. Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 150 points), it is
47:04 <diebot> discharged.
50:09 <Steven> check the rules of potions
50:20 <Steven> you are perfectly capable of figuring it out sir.
50:34 <Mekkis> actually, I've looked it up
51:09 <Mekkis> the thing is, a potion must be 3rd level or lower, and a potion should be crafted by a wizard if able.
51:54 <Mekkis> does the fact that it's only available as a summoner spell to be put in potion form make it legal to be created by a summoner?
53:24 <Steven> no, all potions are considered to be created by wizards/clerics first.
53:50 <Mekkis> even if such thing would be impossible?
57:12 <Steven> All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables 
57:12 <Steven> are made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder 
57:12 <Steven> Society Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells 
57:12 <Steven> that are not on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For 
57:12 <Steven> example, a scroll of lesser restorationmust be purchased 
57:12 <Steven> as a 2nd-level scroll off the cleric spell list and may not 
57:12 <Steven> be purchased as a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell 
57:12 <Steven> list.
03:35 <niconorsk> http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2opvz?Potion-of-Strong-Jaw#15
03:46 <niconorsk> Relevant Mike Brock commentary
06:07 <Falang> whew.
06:13 <Falang> huge shopping trip
09:35 <Falang> Mekkis: I brought up cleave because Hydrazine was talking about multiple enemies being affected, but as I said, I was never talking about combat in the first place, I have no complaints there, it seems to work well. I just said they nerfed all the 1st level spells and reduced their usefulness. 
13:10 <Falang> !spell blood transcription
13:11 <diebot> Falang, BLOOD TRANSCRIPTION divination ([evil]) alchemist 2, magus 2, wizard 2, witch 2 1 standard action Range: touch one dead spellcaster Comp: V, S Duration: 24 hours Save: none SR:no
13:11 <diebot> By consuming 1 pint of blood from a spellcaster killed within the last 24 hours, you can attempt to learn a spell that spellcaster knew. Select one spell available to the dead spellcaster (this must be a spell on your spell list); you gain the knowledge of this spell for 24 hours. During this time, you may write it down (or teach it to your
13:12 <diebot> familiar, if you are a witch) using the normal rules for copying a spell from another source. Once you have learned it, you may prepare the spell normally.
13:18 <Falang> Now that is a sweet spell
20:37 <Steven> gonna find a way to add strong jaw to the list of spells i can cast
21:46 <niconorsk> Thinking of getting a potion of it for my alchemist
21:59 <Steven> i always forget whats the spell progression dice for 2d6 from large to garg.
22:10 <Steven> does it go to 4d6?
23:55 <Falang> damn, i knew it..
24:07 <niconorsk> 2d6 goes to 4d6 when going from huge to colossal.  The table for natural weapons doesn't have any 2d6 large weapons
24:13 <Falang> !spell false life
24:14 <diebot> Falang, FALSE LIFE necromancy ([]) sorcerer/wizard 2, alchemist 2, witch 2 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: V, S, M (a drop of blood) Duration: 1 hour/level or until discharged; see text Save:  SR:
24:14 <diebot> You harness the power of unlife to grant yourself a limited ability to avoid death. While this spell is in effect, you gain temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + 1 per caster level (maximum +10).
24:45 <Falang> is there a priest version of that?
25:08 <Steven> Aid
27:02 <Steven> 16k to get it on my sorc.
27:14 <Steven> Strong Jaw that is
28:01 <Falang> there was a priest casting false life on the skeletons in that game the other night
28:11 <Falang> or oracle or whatever
28:50 <Falang> I think avatar did that game?
28:51 <Steven> negative, damage reduction fucked you guys out of about 20 damage on the first one
28:57 <Falang> where we got our asses kicked
29:01 <Falang> captured, etc.
29:09 <Steven> she cast it on herself
29:14 <Falang> oh, just herself?
29:23 <Falang> I could have sworn it was stated otherwise
29:34 <Steven> disinformation is important as a GM
30:02 <niconorsk> I wouldn't be surprised if there are domains or oracle mysteries that gain false life as a spell
30:47 <Steven> she took significant damage putting out the fire.
31:16 <Steven> well significant damage is not quite accurate
31:24 <Steven> bout 13 damage fromt he fire
31:32 <Falang> how the hell did she do that?
31:39 <Falang> jumping up and down on it?
31:56 * Falang is glad his fire hurt that nasty wench
32:09 <Steven> nope, just getting close to put it out
32:16 <Steven> non lethal damage from heat
32:35 <Steven> still gets subtracted from total
35:26 <Steven> i would say my favorite thing to do is to lie to my players
35:36 * Falang will keep that in mind
35:49 <Steven> best part is nobody knows when im doin it
36:18 <Hydrazine> All the time.
36:42 <Steven> mebe
37:35 <niconorsk> !throw 1d20 Sense Motive Steven
37:36 <diebot> niconorsk, Sense Motive Steven: [1d20=2] 2
37:46 <Falang> no wonder it works
37:53 <Steven> you believe im telling the truth
38:45 <Falang> good thing you can alter your character before 2nd level
38:52 <Falang> a few tweaks are necessary..
47:23 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
54:08 <Brunius> So...my mouse doesn't work
54:19 <Mekkis> oh well
55:41 <Falang> good thing you have a keyboard then!
55:41 <Steven> cant wait till honey gets 8th level spells
55:54 <Steven> totaly gonna pick up Euphoric Tranquility
55:54 <Mekkis> and a Model M at that!
55:57 <Falang> Brunius: might I recommend getting a new mouse? :)
56:35 <Brunius> Falang, it appears to be a windows issue
56:44 <Brunius> It's fine in ubuntu, or was last time this issue cropped up
57:06 <Mekkis> then, what's your problem?
57:20 <Mekkis> now you have a great reason for your brother to not use your PC!
57:48 <Falang> now that's odd
58:02 <Falang> remove the driver and let windows re-add it?
58:12 <Falang> is it something special or just your run of the mill mouse?
58:18 <Brunius> It's a standard mouse
58:40 <Brunius> Windows tells me the drivers aren't up to date, then when I try to update them it's fine, they're up to date
59:00 <Mekkis> ignore the windows problems and embrace linux
59:04 <Falang> did you try removing it?
59:16 <Mekkis> yeah. Remove windows!
59:22 <Falang> Mekkis: Steam only supports so many games on linux so far!
59:38 <Falang> no the mouse driver, ignore this evangelist
59:54 <Falang> (though overall I agree with him, I just can't bring myself to do it as I like gaming)
00:14 <Mekkis> CA works fine on linux
00:38 <Brunius> brb restarting
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01:46 <Falang> no no, computer gaming, not PF
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08:02 <Brunius> Works, until I plug the USB hub in.
08:04 <Brunius> Hmmm...
08:29 <Mekkis> oh wow
08:58 <Mekkis> sounds like you a) have a standards-abiding USB port; and b) an operating system that cares about it!
09:18 <Steven> alright, i will see you guys later, i am going to go to sleep
10:57 <Falang> l8r steven
11:09 <Falang> try a different port for the hub to plug into?
11:19 <Falang> I usually don't put a mouse on a hub, just hard drives and the like
12:08 <Falang> oh wait, that's not what you meant, duh.
12:10 <Brunius> I don't put my mouse on a hub
12:18 <Falang> anyway, yes, tried the hub on another port?
12:22 <Brunius> Yup
12:34 <Falang> that's damn strange
12:36 <Brunius> Sadly I have to reboot again to get the mouse working again...
12:40 <Brunius> So, back in a sec
12:44 <Falang> and you did try removing the driver and letting it reinstall?
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12:51 <Falang> with the hub plugged in
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18:32 <Brunius> The driver for default mice, that windows comes with by default?
22:06 <Avatar> anyone used pdfescape.com before
48:00 <Falang> yeah
48:13 <Falang> while teh hub is plugged in
48:43 <Falang> maybe it's some kinda conflict, better to try and let windows sort it out with everything plugged in a the same time
48:52 <Falang> a bit odd in this day and age though
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07:10 <Avatar> Mekkis: you'd like this - http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarf_Fortress:About
24:26 <Falang> I haven't played DF in quite a while, always got on my nerves getting into the later game when it would start slowing down to a crawl.
25:56 <Falang> the developer keeps adding new features and animals and shit but the game suffered from that slowdown so much.. I think his priorities are a bit skewed.
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09:43 <Avatar> can you draw a wand in the same way you draw a weapon, or is it an object you just take out
24:17 <Avatar> tough crowd
37:10 <niconorsk> As long as you have it stored somewhere accessible, you can draw it like a weapon
37:37 <Avatar> as part of a movement action with a +1 or higher BAB
38:57 <niconorsk> That part seems to vary.  Some people argue that since it only says weapon in that part of the rules that it doesn't apply to wands
39:24 <niconorsk> I personally disagree.
39:37 <Avatar> Draw or Sheathe a Weapon
39:37 <Avatar> Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or
39:37 <Avatar> putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move
39:37 <Avatar> action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects
39:37 <Avatar> carried in easy reach, such as wands.
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54:43 <Steven> hey guys
55:15 <Steven> i did not sleep as long as i'd hoped
57:45 <Falang> clearly. I tried taking a nap myself, not very productive..
00:25 <Falang> oh that's odd.. hmm... what goes into a concentration check?  it's not a skill anymore..
00:55 <Brunius> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html
01:03 <Falang> ah
01:06 <Falang> got it
15:09 <Steven> !rand trytosleep dickaround
15:11 <dicebot> Steven, random: dickaround
15:19 <Steven> it has been decided, i shall dick around
19:01 <Falang> woohoo
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21:14 <Steven> now what to do while dicking off
21:45 <Falang> the number of ranks you can have on a skill is limited by what.. your hit dice right?
22:10 <Steven> yes
23:48 <Falang> do you have to spend your skill ranks or can you save them?
28:22 <Steven> have to spend them.
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29:20 <niconorsk> Why would you want to save them anyways?
31:30 <Falang> just curious really, I guess it wouldn't matter the way they do it now..
41:31 <Falang> oh wow, that looks a lot better..
42:56 <Steven> well its a good thing i checked paizo before deciding my character audit was done done
43:05 <Steven> I had some illegally applied credit.
43:32 <Steven> which means honey now has to play 1 more game
45:11 <Steven> and i need to adjust my sheets
45:33 <Falang> I need another game to go to 2nd level, so I feel your pain ;)
46:50 <Falang> I can't decide between the cantrips Open/Close and Mage hand. grr.
48:15 <Steven> no, you really dont.  My character is level 12 and the only credit i can sit her down and play her on hasnt been released yet.
49:21 <Falang> sheesh, just trying to sympathize, settle down. 
49:41 <Falang> at least you've been able to game for the past several years
54:23 <Mekkis> would anyone be up for a game this Thursday?
56:09 <niconorsk> Yup
57:21 <Falang> I think I'm always up for a game since I'm pretty much always here.
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