// #d&d — 2013-04-03
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11:29:40 <Brunius> So this article is presented in two parts
11:29:53 <Brunius> I've been told to analyse two articles
11:30:01 <Brunius> Is this two part article two articles or one?
11:30:07 <Brunius> Keeping in mind it's 22 pages long
11:40:41 <Goya> I would go with one - even though it's presented in two parts.
11:41:01 <Goya> Better to err on the side of caution.
11:43:24 <Wrothmonk> I would say your just trying to mess with us.
11:45:33 <Brunius> I'm serious.
11:54:24 <Mekkis> what article?
11:54:44 <Brunius> The vast differences between the NBN and the Coalition's alternative
11:58:50 <Brunius> Oh man, I just ran into an opened parentheses, which it appears won't get closed.
11:58:57 <Brunius> This is gonna annoy me for the next 18 pages
11:59:56 <Goya> Go with two different articles so there are two (potentially) varied viewpoints.
12:00:46 <Goya> Even if the articles can come from different subjects (and aren't specific to a single topic).
12:02:22 <Wrothmonk> I say go with your employer if thats the case
12:05:06 <Mekkis> Brunius, bring Shannon's 1920 paper into it!
12:09:18 <Brunius> At this point it's looking like I can just highlight the rest of the article
12:09:37 <Brunius> (I'm supposed to highlight persuasive techniques)
12:12:37 <Steven1> hey guys
12:13:37 <Goya> o/
12:13:58 Steven1 is now known as Steven
12:18:06 <Mekkis> yo
12:26:06 <Steven> so whats everybody doin?
12:26:37 <Brunius> Highlighting most of this article
12:28:36 <Mekkis> washing
12:33:34 <Wrothmonk> trying to get something to stop turning relative to another thing in space
12:34:19 <Mekkis> apply force?
12:34:28 <Wrothmonk> trying that
12:34:33 <Wrothmonk> not working well
12:34:48 <Wrothmonk> since I can only apply force to one object at once
12:36:16 <Mekkis> why?
12:37:04 <Wrothmonk> wait...
12:37:13 <Brunius> Is this ksp
12:37:16 <Wrothmonk> Yes
12:37:20 <Mekkis> ksp?
12:37:28 <Wrothmonk> Kerbal space program
12:39:16 <Wrothmonk> Mekkis you're a genius. I don't actually need to just apply force to one object. I can grab both objects using two mechanical arms on one ship.
12:43:14 <Steven> game...
12:44:05 <Brunius> Nearly halfway there!
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12:59:16 <Mekkis> The blood from your many wounds stains the ground a dark maroon. You lament in fear as your blurred vision meets my yellow gaze. I stare at you with hunger in my eyes, swishing my tail and licking my muzzle in anticipation of the meal I will make soon make of you.
13:00:35 <Brunius> Charming
13:01:11 <Mekkis> ummm.. the Naga aspirant druid archetype doesn't work
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14:13:34 <bonehead> yo party fockerssssssssssssssssssssss
14:13:43 <bonehead> guess whos in da houseeeeeeeeeee?
14:13:49 <bonehead> ddddddddddddd n dddddddddddddddddddddddddd
14:13:54 <bonehead> dynamiteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
14:13:59 <bonehead> yo d n dddddddddddddddddddddd
14:14:01 <bonehead> dynamiteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
14:14:05 * dicebot sets ban on bonehead!*@*
14:14:05 dicebot has kicked bonehead from #d&d (Banned: spammer)
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14:27:51 <Ulzef> how does it not work
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15:42:45 <Ulzef> is it wrong that when looking at the naga asparient i reliesed that you can make a druid arcane trickster
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16:01:35 <Ulzef> nvm :(
16:01:49 <Ulzef> thought it was cast 2nd lvl spells
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16:10:16 ChanOP gives channel half-operator status to dicebot
16:18:34 <Mekkis> Ulzef, because it says "as per Shapechange"
16:18:43 <Mekkis> when shapechange means nothing in Pathfinder
16:21:51 <Ulzef> shapechange functions as all the other shape spells
16:24:40 <Mekkis> !spell Shapechange
16:24:48 <diebot> Mekkis, SHAPECHANGE transmutation (polymorph[]) druid 9, sorcerer/wizard 9 1 standard action Range: personal you Comp: V, S, F (jade circlet worth 1,500 gp) Duration: 10 min./level Save: SR:
16:24:48 <diebot> This spell allows you to take the form of a wide variety of creatures. This spell can function as alter self, beast form IV, elemental body IV, form of the dragon III, giant form II, and plant shape III depending on what form you take. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your
16:24:48 <diebot> regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action.
16:25:12 <Mekkis> the thing is, there's no way Shapechange can turn you into a naga, yet it's supposed to
16:37:12 <Avatar> I still need to get my character sheets transferred
16:37:35 <Avatar> I'd consider that something of a nightmare, but it's really 100x easier than transferring from paper
16:38:30 <Avatar> mike is apparently back in melbourne again and offering a game this weekend
17:06:15 <Mekkis> oh no
17:06:19 <Mekkis> why is he there?
17:06:35 <Mekkis> because Darkwhite's playing Eot10 with all the other GMs except Goodall?
17:06:45 <Mekkis> also: citation?
17:49:18 <Ulzef> um is it just me that has noticed that naga asperant and sauran shaman can stack?
17:49:36 <Ulzef> and would be rude
17:49:57 <Ulzef> you get to be a sauran shaman with kick ass spells
17:50:50 <Mekkis> ummm... what?!
17:51:54 <Mekkis> How does Naga Shape *work*?
17:53:37 <Ulzef> screw that you can be a T rex that shoots fireballs
17:53:56 <Mekkis> as opposed to "change forms as a free action"?
17:57:01 <Ulzef> again T REX with fireball
18:11:02 * dicebot removes ban on bonehead!*@*
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18:25:39 <Steven> sup
18:26:33 <Steven> and no saurian and naga dont stack because you cant be both
18:28:52 <Ulzef> why not there is no abilitie over lap
18:29:42 <Ulzef> you can have multi archtypes if they dont stack the same abilitie
18:29:46 <Mekkis> Steven, how does Naga Shape work?
18:30:04 <Steven> they do cross abilities
18:30:23 <Steven> like it says it works?
18:30:31 <Ulzef> no they dont none of there abilities replace the same thing
18:31:13 <Ulzef> sauran shamans dont replace wild shape it just alters it
18:32:13 <Steven> you cant stack things that change any abilities
18:32:43 <Ulzef> no you cant have things that replace the same things sauran shamans dont
18:33:02 <Steven> no, you cant have things that modify or replace the same class features
18:34:00 <Steven> also thats not the only place they are incompatible
18:36:11 <Mekkis> Steven, it says it works like Shapechange
18:36:58 <Steven> so?
18:38:57 <Ulzef> shamans dont change wild shape they change the druids levels effect for wild shape naga asparient states it works as and replaces wild shape shaman druids do not and it is the only arguable cross over
18:40:25 <Steven> That is a modification of the class ability from the base druid class. Also there are other cross overs.
18:43:34 <Ulzef> no wild shape functions normaly your druid levels do not there for no over lap
18:44:26 <Ulzef> and there are no other over laps
18:44:44 <Steven> ulzef they over lap, im sorry you are wrong man, but you are. You need to move on.
18:46:18 <Ulzef> yeah found the venom immunity over lap
18:47:03 <Ulzef> :( sad panda
18:48:02 <Mekkis> venom immunity is so useful!
18:49:04 <Mekkis> oh, Deceased is now safe from damnation!
18:49:32 <Mekkis> At 5th level, a diabolist has been deemed useful enough to the cause of Hell to be allowed a brief respite from damnation. If killed by any means outside of the will of Asmodeus, the archdevils, or another influential force in Hell, the diabolist can be resurrected as normal.
18:49:51 <Steven> yay!
18:50:03 <Mekkis> was very very worried
18:50:55 <Mekkis> should I give defunct a glaive?
18:51:43 <Steven> next gaame my arcane druid levels!
18:52:19 <Ulzef> arcane druid?
18:52:22 <Steven> becomes level 4 woot woot
18:52:29 <Steven> Oh its my nickname for my sorc
18:52:32 <Mekkis> sylvan sorcerer
18:52:47 <Mekkis> oh
18:52:53 <Steven> sylvan emphyreal crossblooded sorc.
18:52:58 <Mekkis> Ulzef, if Goodall ever complains about you powergaming
18:53:14 <Mekkis> just remind him that you're not the guy who made a 7/22 wizard...
18:53:40 <Steven> wis as casting stat and an animal companion
18:53:42 <Ulzef> 7/22?
18:53:46 <Mekkis> yeah
18:54:07 <Mekkis> 7 str, 22 int
18:55:44 <Steven> thats nothing
18:56:00 <Steven> my arc druid has 7/12/16/12/20/6 as their stats
18:56:15 <Mekkis> that's not a good rolemodel, as a VL
18:56:32 <Steven> no your right i should have a shitty character....
18:57:19 <Steven> let me use this free reroll of a character to change it so my backstory no longer makes sense.
18:58:39 <Mekkis> so, is 17/12/16/12/14/5 a legal statline for a dwarf?
18:58:52 <Steven> not at first level.
18:58:59 <Mekkis> what's wrong?
18:59:51 <Steven> its too cheesy... it would set a bad example
18:59:59 <Mekkis> hey, I'm not the VL
19:00:11 <Steven> so?
19:00:23 <Mekkis> I don't need to present as good a rolemodel
19:00:34 <Steven> You're just as responsible for the power creep of pathfinder as i am
19:00:56 <Steven> actually in my job description it does not say present as a good rolemodel.
19:00:57 <Mekkis> so you think 17/12/16/10/12/8 would be better?
19:01:13 <Mekkis> Steven, you don't think that that would be implied?
19:01:24 <Steven> not when it comes to character creation.
19:01:56 <Steven> If i make a totaly cheesed out character it doesnt matter who I am
19:02:32 <Steven> As a matter of fact, the more stars people have, usually that means the more cheesy their characters get
19:02:48 <Steven> so, right now im at like 3/5 of my maximum cheese level
19:03:22 <Mekkis> I only personally know one 5-star GM, and his characters are definitely not cheesy
19:03:33 <Steven> if you want i could open my Character Theory Folder open to people in this room. And you would cry at their level of optimisation
19:03:58 <Mekkis> I could probably open mine too. But I don't take those characters to tables
19:04:38 <Steven> like my 1Oracle/2Paladin/9Mysterious Stranger... With Cha to defense, saves, and damage
19:04:58 <Mekkis> also 12th level, so noone cares
19:05:52 <Steven> well the character takes off once it gets to mysterious stranger
19:06:04 <Steven> before then its still powerful
19:06:15 <Steven> but once they get that gun.... oh boy. crazy shit.
19:07:51 <Steven> one of my other favorites is the butterfly stinging paladin Bard with like 30AC
19:08:06 <Mekkis> what weapon should Cramin use?
19:08:15 <Steven> whos cramin
19:08:21 <Mekkis> my core-only rogue
19:08:32 <Steven> rapier is a solid choice
19:08:47 <Mekkis> hell no
19:09:06 <Mekkis> I'm thinking Ranseur
19:09:27 <Ulzef> this your max str core only rogue?
19:09:39 <Mekkis> statline is 17/12/16/12/14/5
19:09:58 <Steven> oh... a two handed rogue
19:10:08 <Steven> Falchion is better than a ranseur
19:10:10 <Mekkis> someone told this quiet dwarf with no social skills that if he became a rogue, it would improve them
19:10:47 <Mekkis> Maybe Dwarven Urgrosh
19:10:56 <Mekkis> how do double weapons work?
19:11:01 <Steven> so you are burning a feat to get proficiency?
19:11:06 <Mekkis> can you still use them as two-handed weapons?
19:11:07 <Steven> or heirloom weapon?
19:11:12 <Mekkis> Steven, no, level of fight
19:11:12 <Mekkis> er
19:11:30 <Steven> i would go falchion
19:11:38 <Steven> crit range is better
19:11:47 <Brunius> Woo found my charsheet folder
19:11:56 <Steven> go go brun!
19:11:56 <Brunius> Turns out it was under my pile of finished homework and nerf guns
19:12:30 <Steven> i would make fun of you for owning a nerf gun... but those things are fun as hell... also i own a big two handed monstrosity of a nerf gun
19:12:44 <Brunius> All of mine are modded
19:12:56 <Brunius> I keep breaking the one that has a shotgun grip and goes ~70ft though :(
19:13:24 <Steven> that sucks
19:13:52 <Steven> I have this one that shoots little disks, it shoots around 25m
19:14:56 <Brunius> Problem with the disky ones is that they curve
19:15:01 <Brunius> Which is a real bitch to counter
19:15:05 <Brunius> Also the wind catches them
19:15:34 <Steven> lil bit, but the darts just dont fly very far... and when you have a clip size of 20 disks... well you can just pepper the fuck out of the area and no worries
19:15:39 <Mekkis> query: if I did wield a Dwarven Urgrosh, with BAB of +1 and 16 str, my attack options would be:
19:15:39 <Mekkis> Single attack, two-handed: +4 to-hit, 1d8+4 damage
19:15:39 <Mekkis> Single attack, one-handed: +4 to-hit, 1d8+3 damage
19:15:39 <Mekkis> Double attack: +0 to-hit, 1d8+3 damage; -4 to-hit, 1d8+1 damage
19:15:41 <Mekkis> correct?
19:16:04 <Brunius> I think so
19:16:19 <Steven> yes, that is correct.
19:16:39 <Mekkis> great
19:16:42 <Steven> invest in twf and you end up getting +2/-2 to hit methinks
19:16:50 <Mekkis> and if I got TWF, it'd be +2/+2
19:16:56 <Steven> i should probably brush up on the rules of twf but.... fuck that noise
19:17:01 <Brunius> +2/+2 I think
19:17:11 <Mekkis> (off-hand weapon is considered light)
19:17:29 <Steven> is the offhand weapon considered light?
19:18:01 <Mekkis> Double: You can use a double weapon to fight as if
19:18:01 <Mekkis> fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the
19:18:01 <Mekkis> normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two
19:18:01 <Mekkis> weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon
19:18:01 <Mekkis> and a light weapon.
19:19:00 <Steven> kick ass
19:19:06 <Steven> yeah thats not a bad choice.
19:19:19 <Steven> kind of locks you into a twf rogue though
19:19:25 <Mekkis> what?
19:19:50 <Mekkis> no, it still can do str*1.5 as a two-handed, right?
19:19:57 <Mekkis> if I don't full-attack
19:20:19 <Mekkis> so I can TWF if I have a flank or something, and I can power attack if I don't
19:21:22 <Steven> yeah, but it kinda demands you take twf
19:21:44 <Mekkis> first level feats as TWF and Power Attack doesn't seem too unreasonable.
19:22:00 <Mekkis> I won't bother pursuing the TWF tree
19:28:28 <Avatar> is this your magus?
19:28:32 <Mekkis> no
19:28:38 <Avatar> what class
19:28:39 <Mekkis> I'm making a core-only character
19:28:42 <Mekkis> rogue
19:28:49 <Avatar> lol that's right
19:28:50 <Mekkis> I'm putting my money where my mouth is
19:29:06 <Avatar> my ninja had a reach weap
19:29:12 <Avatar> can't remember what it was
19:29:38 <Avatar> longspear
19:30:00 <Mekkis> I'll be using a dwarven urgrosh
19:30:34 <Avatar> are you a dwarf
19:30:38 <Mekkis> of course
19:31:32 <Mekkis> Spiked armour
19:32:10 <Steven> im taking my arcane druid all the way through thornkeep, gonna get some super exensive armor for my AC
19:32:19 <Steven> expensive
19:32:28 <Mekkis> might end up using a buckler too
19:33:08 <Avatar> get a quickdraw shield
19:33:28 <Mekkis> not core
19:33:39 <Avatar> oh
19:36:00 <Steven> yeah im making an all APG character
19:36:19 <Steven> i keep making it and then not liking it.
19:48:42 <Mekkis> what should the ends of the Urgrosh be made out of?
19:48:59 <Mekkis> Adamantium / silver?
19:49:10 <Mekkis> probably adamantium / cold iron
19:51:15 <Steven> cold iron is a good metal to make a weapon out of
19:51:50 <Mekkis> sure, Adamantine on one end, cold iron on the other
19:51:59 <Mekkis> I use the adamantine side to disarm traps
19:53:11 <Brunius> Ha
20:00:24 <Mekkis> !spell shrink object
20:00:26 <diebot> Mekkis, SHRINK ITEM transmutation ([]) sorcerer/wizard 3 1 standard action Range: touch one touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level Comp: V, S Duration: 1 day/level; see text Save: Will negates (object) SR:yes (object)
20:00:26 <diebot> You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object's size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink
20:00:26 <diebot> item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell. Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency
20:00:26 <diebot> spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.
20:14:06 <Mekkis> Steven, is a character able to be created with less than 2 traits?
20:14:22 <Mekkis> or will I need to pick a trait from CTWE?
20:17:01 <Steven> you need to have two traits
20:17:05 <Mekkis> ok
20:17:23 <Mekkis> I'll pick one trait from the Guide, and the other from CTWE
20:17:28 <Steven> you have to have full skill points asigned
20:17:34 <Mekkis> to make my character legal
20:20:08 <Steven> all the feats assinged
20:20:12 <Steven> before sitting down at a table
20:22:31 <Mekkis> Kernigahn's stag died in Bonekeep
20:22:44 <Mekkis> His replacement's name is Goodall.
20:25:37 <Mekkis> Skill Mastery works with UMD, right?
20:28:00 <Brunius> Can't see why it wouldn't
20:29:59 <Mekkis> http://nl.ti4200.info/profiler/view.php?id=3
20:30:02 <Mekkis> what do you think?
20:30:56 <Steven> oh man thats so terrible
20:31:05 <Mekkis> ?
20:32:26 <Ulzef> how you getting around the moin 15 dex for twf
20:32:31 <Mekkis> oh
20:32:37 <Mekkis> there's a 15 dex prereq?
20:32:38 <Mekkis> :(
20:32:51 <Mekkis> !feat two-weapon fighting
20:32:55 <diebot> Mekkis, TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [Combat]Prereq: Dex 15. You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.
20:32:55 <diebot> Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.
20:32:55 <diebot> Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each.
20:32:55 <diebot> An unarmed strike is always considered light. Source: Core
20:33:05 <Mekkis> damn
20:35:11 <Steven> instead of fighter you could go two weapon fighter ranger
20:35:29 <Mekkis> that doesn't work with heavy armour, ja?
20:35:40 <Steven> nope, you would lose heavy armor
20:35:55 <Steven> but pick up your two weapon fighting, and a favored enemy
20:35:55 <Mekkis> wouldn't I lose MEDIUM armour?
20:36:08 <Steven> no rangers have medium armor
20:36:44 <Mekkis> would need to go ranger 2 then, right?
20:36:52 <Steven> yeah
20:37:04 <Steven> but it gets you around prereq
20:37:18 <Steven> IF you want two weapon fighting that is
20:38:51 <Mekkis> could change the statline to STR: 17 DEX: 15 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 11 CHA: 5
20:38:57 <Mekkis> but that's getting distasteful
20:40:07 <Brunius> Silly cha dumping
20:40:42 <Steven> bad influence mekkis... what will all the new players think
20:41:41 <Mekkis> "Hey, rogues suck. I'd better not play one"
20:41:55 <Steven> well they are going to think that anyways
20:42:02 <Mekkis> I hope so
20:42:07 <Brunius> Except if they don't
20:43:50 <Steven> then they are dumb...
20:45:26 <Steven> tomorrow im gonna run Thornkeep
20:47:47 <Mekkis> Steven, want to trade a wayang boon for knowledge of Brock's favourite beer?
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20:53:26 <Steven> nope
20:53:50 <Mekkis> wtf
20:53:52 <Mekkis> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/recognize-north-korea-us-state-and-overthrow-their-current-government-failing-meet-their-obligations/mmpP7GWq
20:55:31 <Steven> lol.... thats stupid
20:56:41 <Mekkis> agreed
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21:06:09 <Mekkis> oh
21:06:24 <Mekkis> and Brock told me how to deal with people who don't shut up about their characters!
21:06:40 <Steven> during a game or just outside of one
21:07:01 <Mekkis> both!
21:08:10 <Ulzef> i need to know that trick
21:15:10 <Brunius> Is it killing said character off
21:15:27 <Mekkis> no, but that works too
21:16:52 <Nornok> I joined the "Character got killed by Mike Brock" club this weekend. :)
21:17:03 <Mekkis> in Bonekeep?
21:17:10 Nornok is now known as niconorsk
21:17:12 <niconorsk> Yup
21:17:19 <Mekkis> I survived!
21:17:24 <Mekkis> when Brock was running
21:17:27 <Mekkis> how did you do?
21:17:31 <Brunius> Who is this niconorsk guy anyway
21:18:27 <niconorsk> We got TPK'ed in the 5th room
21:18:41 <Mekkis> room 5, or the fifth room you visited?
21:19:50 <niconorsk> fifth room we visited, top left room on the map
21:20:07 <Mekkis> that's room 2
21:20:08 <niconorsk> Being vague so as to not spoil for people that haven't run it
21:20:30 <Mekkis> we didn't find that room difficult
21:21:18 <niconorsk> Hmm, maybe I'm being too vague. I mean from entrance, go left, then up twice
21:21:19 <Steven> i look forward to kickin peoples ass with bonekeep
21:21:57 <Mekkis> ah
21:22:00 <Mekkis> room 7
21:22:12 <Mekkis> the map's laid out the other way around
21:22:13 <Mekkis> :)
21:22:20 <Mekkis> what tier?
21:22:25 <niconorsk> 6-7
21:22:29 <Mekkis> ow
21:22:32 <Mekkis> what party?
21:22:34 <Mekkis> and APL?
21:23:51 <niconorsk> My wizard, a druid, rogue/alchemist, barbarian, elemental sorceress, unarmed fighter
21:24:08 <Mekkis> and APL?
21:24:23 <niconorsk> Not sure about APL, most were 6 I think
21:25:16 <Mekkis> damn
21:25:22 <Mekkis> just reading the scenario now
21:25:54 <niconorsk> The barbarian did the majority of the damage. The druid was built in to transforming in to a huge dinosaur, which doesn't work very well in there
21:26:56 <niconorsk> We had already lost the unarmed fighter in an earlier room but foolishly pressed on
21:27:01 <Mekkis> I'm getting the impression Brock ran it wrong
21:27:12 <niconorsk> How so?
21:27:19 <Mekkis> do you have a copy of the scenario?
21:27:29 <niconorsk> No
21:46:39 <Ulzef> our only death was in the same room
21:51:27 <Steven> i suspect if we ran it at a slot zero for the core group of pfs, we wouldnt have any problems until room 7
21:53:05 <Steven> maybe room 3 if we played at high teir due to their SL abilities
22:38:24 <Steven> hey mekkis did you get to room 6?
23:31:05 niconorsk has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
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