#eevblog - 2021-12-19 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2021-12-19

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« 2021-12-18 2021-12-20 »
39:27 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - I didn't know that: a) There is an Amazon Fast hub in my business park (the old Bunnings building) b) They pay $28/… https://t.co/J96g4c5ctg
15:41 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
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52:44 <electrohead> o/
54:11 <Kuschelpony> whinny
54:48 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #eevblog
54:48 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o steve30
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44:45 <arch> would there be any problems if i buffered the output of an opamp to drive the gate of a high gate charge mosfet? like this https://i.imgur.com/N62DDiM.png
45:47 <Kuschelpony> if the dead zone of 2*UBE does not make issues the circuit seem fine otherwise
48:49 <arch> right, well, it's gonna be a mosfet, so even with 5V - 0.6V, it'll turn on pretty nicely; and it'll def be off at 0.6V
49:33 <Kuschelpony> hmm, your circuit looks like linear drive to me
51:32 <arch> constant current load, so yes
52:02 <arch> im wondering if i even need that buffer tbh. the gate charge is gonna be quite large is why im thinking i need it
52:30 <Kuschelpony> i i did not worry about the on and off states, but about if the opamp can go through the dead zone quick enough on the transition between rsing and lowering the gate voltage
52:44 <Kuschelpony> depends on which speed you need
53:14 <Kuschelpony> my memories are getting rusty, last time i really played with an mosefet load was in the early 00s
53:18 <arch> gate charge of 8x in parallel at 4.5V, comes out to a combined ~120nC
53:38 Join: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) to #eevblog
53:41 <Nothing\> weird
53:44 <Kuschelpony> hmm i would give every mosefet an independ opamp
53:54 <Kuschelpony> nothing weird ?
53:57 <Nothing\> microsoft wants to charge me $12 to download hexchat from the windows store
54:01 <Nothing\> CAD
54:32 <Nothing\> https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/hexchat/9nrrbgttm4j2?ocid=9nrrbgttm4j2_ORSEARCH_Bing&rtc=1#activetab=pivot:overviewtab
54:34 <EEVBot> [Title] - Buy HexChat - Microsoft Store en-CA
54:45 <Nothing\> can they really do that?
54:47 <arch> i have not made a cc load with multiple mosfets yet. the one i have right now is using a single, to-247 11n90 mosfet on a butchered graphics card as a heatsink :D
54:57 <arch> and it works a treat. 160W dissipation easily
55:14 <Nothing\> arch: seems jfets would be better suited just on account of how much simpler the circuit would be
55:20 <Nothing\> for a CC sink
55:21 Join: watcher ([email protected]) to #eevblog
55:41 <Nothing\> but i'm just a newb :)
55:52 <arch> https://imgur.com/a/KwtucHP
55:53 <EEVBot> [Title] - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
55:53 <Nothing\> really that's just my way of asking why use a mosfet over a jfet
56:25 <Nothing\> arch: what's all this then?
56:37 <Nothing\> besides a nice looking, but apparently somewhat antiquated video card
56:37 <Kuschelpony> perhaps because Power-JFETs are very very rare today, and were never popular before
56:45 <Nothing\> ah power
56:49 <Nothing\> i hadn't considered that
57:09 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, tbh it doesn't seem like jfets really have any practical use
57:12 <Nothing\> at least not many
57:13 <Kuschelpony> good to know that the 11n90 can do 160w thats far more than i would have been comfortable
57:43 <arch> you know why that is? it's because i soldered that directly to the pure copper base of that gpu heatsink, using bismuth alloyed solder
57:46 <Nothing\> and i could be very wrong in this assumption, but it seems to me a jfet is just a depletion mode mosfet anyways
57:49 <Nothing\> in terms of functionality
57:50 <Kuschelpony> nothing there is a nice for very low noise at high impedance amplifiers
57:51 <arch> reeaaaaly good thermal performance
57:54 <Nothing\> but i know there's more to it than that
57:56 <Kuschelpony> no
58:16 <Kuschelpony> a JFet has the gate isolated by a PN *J*unction
58:18 <Nothing\> just saying as a lay person, they seem almost identical in their function
58:33 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, yeah that's right, current actually flows through the.... gate?
58:35 <Nothing\> doesn't it?
58:39 <Kuschelpony> a MOSFET has *M*etal *O*xide
58:40 <Nothing\> i almost wanted to say base
58:53 <Nothing\> man i've heard mosfets called all sorts of things
58:55 <Kuschelpony> the function can bbe identical outside
59:05 <Nothing\> obviously mosfets, igfets, jugfets
59:11 <Kuschelpony> there is no current flow through the gate, except you have a carzy cisrcuit
59:16 <Nothing\> unless jugfet was for a jfet
59:18 <Nothing\> i think it was
59:23 <Nothing\> but i just like that name, jugfet
59:37 <Nothing\> sounds like if jughead and boba fett had a son
59:51 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, i did not know that
59:53 <Nothing\> but it makes sense
00:03 <Kuschelpony> btw i do have an Hifi amplifier that has actually Power-JFETs in the output stage
00:20 <Kuschelpony> Wega V4810
00:24 <Nothing\> in all honesty, because of how little they're used i'm not terribly familiar with jfets. Though I'd like, no LOVE to build a lambda diode one day
00:37 <Nothing\> i mean i built one before but i couldn't even characterize the negative resistance
01:15 <Nothing\> i think the Vd only goes down like a couple hundred mv in the negative impedance section of the.... transfer function?
02:07 <Nothing\> assuming transfer function refers to what the waveform looks like after it's gone through the circuit
02:16 <Nothing\> i.e. the output
02:20 <Nothing\> vs the input
02:31 <Kuschelpony> many years ago i built a negative resistance device from pressing zinc oxide powder
02:42 <Nothing\> no shit? i didn't know zinc oxide could do that
02:47 <Nothing\> did it glow in the dark?
02:49 <Kuschelpony> was of course really unstable
02:53 <Nothing\> that'd be cool
03:18 <Kuschelpony> did not check in the dark, but its at least a material capable of beeing used for LEDs
03:45 <Kuschelpony> adjusting he pressure sometimes i could make a LC circuit oscilate
04:05 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, i actually picked up some soviet era tunnel diodes on amazon last year for about $20 for a pack of $10
04:09 <Nothing\> er a pack of 10
04:12 <Nothing\> i couldn't believe the price
04:28 <Nothing\> it took some doing to get a datasheet on it but i managed
04:39 <Nothing\> i've yet to do anything with it though
04:43 <Nothing\> *them
04:49 <Kuschelpony> ah fine
04:56 <Kuschelpony> never played with them
05:26 <Nothing\> i always wanted some, but they're so prohibitively expensive and the only place i could ever find them was ebay
05:42 <Nothing\> usually they cost about $20 EACH, nevermind for 10
06:15 <Nothing\> i wouldn't imagine there's a huge market for tunnel diodes on amazon though
06:35 <Nothing\> oh you'll be proud of my Kuschelpony
06:40 <Nothing\> i kept chivalry alive today
06:53 <Kuschelpony> hmm, for me amazon is still a book shop with more than doubtful ethics
06:55 <steve30> hi
07:00 <Kuschelpony> yes?
07:02 <Nothing\> heya steve how ya doing?
07:09 <watcher> hi steve30
07:23 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, that's about it isn't it. In fact, last thing i bought from them was a book. In fairness it was for my mum though.
07:33 <Nothing\> Not sure about what, something about the royals
07:39 <Nothing\> hnery and meghan or something
07:42 <Kuschelpony> i never dealtz wit hthem
07:44 <Nothing\> my mum loves that sorta stuff
07:52 <Nothing\> but anyways the chivalry
08:03 <Kuschelpony> usually im interested in stuff thats very different from the mainstrwam anyway
08:29 <steve30> I've had a busy week at long last. Been to the gym twice, been to the shops, and went out with the video camera today.
08:43 <Nothing\> i was at the clinic today waiting for my methadone and other meds, and this guy started getting in the pharmacist's face and yelling at her and cussing her out and generally being aggressive towards her and another nurse
09:32 <Kuschelpony> ouch
09:42 <Nothing\> so i got up and even though the guy was twice my size i start telling him first to treat the staff with more respect than that, and when he told me to stfu i told him to take his own advice and gtfo because we don't need his type in that clinic
10:02 <Nothing\> and i'm even poking my finger into his chest and everything, i couldn't believe i could muster up such courage
10:03 <Kuschelpony> i was mostly at home, did some laundry, went out for a little walk and bought a ice with chocolade and cinnamon taste
10:12 <Nothing\> i am NOT a confrontational person in the least bit
10:16 <Nothing\> and especially not violent
10:32 <Nothing\> but at that moment, i was willing to go fistacuffs with this guy if he took a swing
10:54 <Nothing\> but anyways the nurses calmed him down so i sat down and let them deal with him
11:28 <Kuschelpony> oof
11:33 <Nothing\> but he was saying it's none of my business, i told the guy as soon as you start yelling about it in public and being a shitdisturber, you make it everyone's business
12:09 <Nothing\> but yeah it was just a lot of back and forth like that but holy crap was it exhilerating in a way
12:34 <Nothing\> last time i got into a fight was in grade 7 lol and i know the guy woulda completely destroyed me, he was easily twice my size
13:03 <Nothing\> but i didn't care, i wasn't gonna sit back and watch somebody abuse these amazing women who do such a great job at what they do, or any woman for that matter
13:06 <Kuschelpony> i cant remember if i have ever been in such a fight
13:10 <Nothing\> so long as she actually ACTS like a lady
13:18 <Nothing\> you know, there are some who are an exception
13:26 <Nothing\> but i wouldn't even raise my hand to them
13:45 <Nothing\> worst i did was as a teen i punched a chick in the boob cuz she kicked me in the balls
13:53 <Nothing\> it seemede like a fair trade-off at the time lol
14:17 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, yeah even the fights in school were little scuffles
14:33 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, you ever hear what happened to my brother a few months ago? holy crap he got it real bad.
14:45 <Kuschelpony> i cant remember
15:35 <Nothing\> he was hanging out with some roommates, and the one guy, this big native american guy, about 250lbs, meanwhile my brother's barely over 100. But out of nowhere the indian guy starts beating the shit out of my brother and his room mate
16:46 <Nothing\> at one point he choked out my brother and spent 20 minutes continuing to beat him while he was uncoscious
16:48 <Kuschelpony> ouch
17:42 <Nothing\> with my brother at least, he busted out 5 teeth, broke several ribs, broke his eye socket, broke his nose, broke a finger, along with the brain damage which caused him to have seizures for about a week after
17:57 <Nothing\> and his room mate got it about just as bad
18:09 <Nothing\> his injuries were more or less the same, except he had damage to his vision too
18:28 <Nothing\> oh yeah, they both had perforated eardrums too. That is, a hole put in their eardrum.
18:46 <Nothing\> musta been from getting hit in the ear or something
19:23 <Nothing\> i know if i was ever in a tight spot, one of the first things i'd try to do is box their ears. Where you slap somebody in the ears as hard as you can with both hands.
19:42 <Nothing\> or even one hand, I'm sure it'd be enough to make them instinctively reach up to protect their ear
20:25 <Kuschelpony> uhm.... i think i would prefer passive safety gear...
20:37 <Nothing\> or in a pinch, i'm able to emit a whistle which, i dunno how loud it is, but it's so loud that it makes me literally go deaf for several minutes afterwards. Not entirely deaf but you know, ringing in the ears, difficulty hearing, like i'd just been to a rock concert. So it's gotta be a hell of a loud whistle.
20:45 <Kuschelpony> (you casnt know, what i am currently looking at elsewhere :)
20:49 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, you and me both lol
20:59 <Nothing\> like i said, i'm not a confrontational person AT ALL
21:11 <Nothing\> in fact, i'm the last person who would wanna get into a fight with anyone
21:21 Quit: modrobert ([email protected]) Quit: leaving
21:58 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
22:01 Join: coppice_ ([email protected]) to #eevblog
22:07 <Nothing\> even verbal arguments upset me a great deal
22:28 <Nothing\> i know it sounds corny, but honestly i just wish everyone could get along
23:52 <Nothing\> lol so the local news put up this story yesterday about a stabbing, included photos of some suspects and i happened to recognize one of them. And in the article it says "contact detective so-and-so if you have any information"
24:04 <Nothing\> so i call the police station and get transferred through to him
24:11 <Nothing\> he's on holiday for the next 2 weeks lol
25:10 <Nothing\> I'll just send him an email and hope he gets it
25:17 Quit: watcher ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
25:21 <Nothing\> and i left him a voicemail too but who knows how full that is
25:30 <Nothing\> i'd be surprised if he even responded to the email
32:25 <Nothing\> i'd like to build the world a house
32:30 <Nothing\> and furnish it with love
32:41 <Nothing\> grow apple trees and honey bees
32:46 <Nothing\> and snow-white turtledoves
34:49 <Nothing\> bah
34:56 <Nothing\> gotta think what to do with myself for the day
35:07 <Nothing\> too many things involve getting up
36:09 <Nothing\> i wish i had a hover wheelchair so i could navigate my apartment in one without having to worry about the clutter. I can barely get around on crutches. Though I think a wheelchair for a broken toe is a bit like putting your entire lower body in a cast because you banged your knee
36:44 <Nothing\> or maybe one of those hovering things that keeps you upside down for some reason in back to the future 2
37:56 Join: watcher ([email protected]) to #eevblog
37:59 <Nothing\> oh wait i remember why it was upside down. They did that because Crispin Glover wasn't in the 2nd movie as George McFly because his contract demands were too unreasonable. So they replaced him with somebody else and used this upside down machine as a way to sort of obfuscate his face so it's more difficult to tell it's not Crispin Glover
46:42 <arch> Kuschelpony, when you said use separate opamps for each mosfet, you mean like this? https://i.imgur.com/rU1KGzk.png
46:44 * Ampera hugs Nothing\ 
47:13 <Kuschelpony> no
47:29 <Kuschelpony> every MOSFEt has its own sense resistor feeding back to its own Opamp
47:41 <Kuschelpony> so you have lots of indeped current sinks in paralell
48:05 <arch> ohh. but they would all share the same non-inverting input, correct?
48:06 <Kuschelpony> and dont need to worry about the VGSth differences between the individual MOSFETs
48:10 <Kuschelpony> yes
48:45 <Kuschelpony> and if you want it really fancy you can improve precision a bit by having selectable if you connect only1 or 10 of these sinks
50:50 <arch> i think this would overcomplicate things quite a bit. i think the vgs-th differences should not matter as the mosfets heats up; the rds_on will rise, so their temperatures should even out
51:04 <arch> they should become balanced as the heatsink heats up
52:34 <Kuschelpony> thats the biggest WRONG you can think about using MOSFETs in linear mode
52:54 <Kuschelpony> RDSon does not matter untill you saturate them
53:21 <Kuschelpony> in linear mode, UGSth matters, and that has a considerable negative temperarure coefficient
53:30 <arch> i see. do you have some appnote recommendations about this phenomenon?
53:44 <Kuschelpony> so the hotter MOSFET has the relatively lower threshold voltage and takes the more current
53:53 <Kuschelpony> i dont know in general
54:06 <Kuschelpony> on the chip level inside the MOSFET its called the Spirito effect
54:39 <Kuschelpony> its well known failure mode of MOSFETs that a fraction of the chip runs away getting hotter and taking more current, while the rest does not contribute much
55:12 <arch> ahhh i believe you now. there is actually a curve showing this https://i.imgur.com/bkQher5.png
55:13 <Kuschelpony> thats why MOSFETs optimised for switching have often surprisingly small or no published Safe operating Areas for DC
55:43 <Kuschelpony> exactly!
56:18 <Kuschelpony> above the crossing of the curves, the RDSon dominates, below the crossing the UGSth dominates
57:30 <arch> i see. ok, in that case, change of plans. i will just keep things simple and use a really large single mosfet that is made for linear operation
57:55 <arch> similar to how i made that cc load with that 11n90
57:57 <Kuschelpony> thats the best thing
00:03 * Nothing\ hugs Ampera 
00:04 <Nothing\> heya buddy
00:15 <Nothing\> sorry bout the delayed response. How goes?
00:26 <Ampera> My laptop shipped
00:32 <Nothing\> nice
00:43 <Nothing\> i almost got in a fist fight this morning at the methadone clinic lol
01:09 <Ampera> cool
01:13 <Nothing\> some dipshit was cussing out the nurses and one of the female pharmacists who were all like half his size, and the one nurse was pregnant
01:28 <Nothing\> so i stepped in and told him to smarten the fuck up, in so many words
02:24 <Nothing\> he tells me it's none of my business and i'm like "dude you made this everyone's business the second you started yelling and screaming here in the waiting room" and i'm poking the guy in the chest and everything, channeling every bit of machismo i have, which is a lot more than i thought.
02:29 <Nothing\> cuz i honestly thought i had none
03:04 <Nothing\> but my main reason was just to get him to leave the nurses and pharmacist alone cuz they're great people and don't deserve that
03:34 <Nothing\> he was about ready to kick my ass but luckily it didn't come to that and eventually i just sat down once he calmed a bit and let the nurses deal with him
03:56 <Nothing\> i just didn't wanna see him end up hitting one of them or something.
04:26 <Nothing\> luckily he transferred everything to another pharmacy though so, good riddance :D
04:41 <Nothing\> it's just weird to me because it's so out of character for me
05:06 <Nothing\> i won't lie, irl i'm a pretty big pussy and usually terrified of confrontation to the point that even a verbal argument will see me shaking like a leaf
05:41 <Nothing\> but this time i was calm, collected, despite being so aggressive, no shaking or anything and just 100% ready for fistacuffs
06:35 <Nothing\> lol and of course my doctor heard it all but he knew it wasn't my fault so he was fine. He was actually more apologetic but i told him it's fine since that's the only time anything like that's ever happened in the years i've been going there
07:08 <arch> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/IXTQ60N20L2/IXTQ60N20L2-ND/2354481
07:08 <EEVBot> [Title] - Request Rejected
07:15 <arch> kinda expensive...but ok
07:25 <Nothing\> arch: i actually just got an account with digikey the other day
07:37 <Nothing\> but i'm not sure if i want to/should order from them or not. I dunno.
07:43 <arch> that capacitance is massive! 10.5nF
08:00 <Nothing\> I'm trying to find a place to replace aliexpress since it seems about 80% of the chips i get from aliexpress seem to be counterfeits
08:08 <arch> do i need a gate drive buffer Kuschelpony?
08:39 <Kuschelpony> perhaps yes if you want speed past a few hundred Hz
09:04 <Nothing\> arch: very much a newb question, but i was just thinknig in a situation like this, how feasible would it be to say, pop in an inductor of equal reactance to cancel out the capacitance?
09:17 <Nothing\> but as i typed that i realized then the circuit would only work at one frequency
09:27 <arch> alright, i have a few gate drivers here thankfully. sot-23 3A gate drive
11:04 <Nothing\> oh ffs
11:13 <Nothing\> i plugged my ecig in to charge while i was at the clinic
11:18 <Nothing\> just went to puff on it
11:19 <Kuschelpony> nothing you might have invented an oscilator :)
11:28 <Nothing\> i had it plugged into the cord that wasn't plugged into anything
11:39 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, hehe yeah i just realized that's the definition of resonance
11:58 <Kuschelpony> hmm like there qas a discussion yesterday :)
12:05 <Nothing\> aye
12:17 <Nothing\> i've actually been studying RLC circuits lately, hence the discussion
12:47 <Nothing\> actually an RLC circuit was the first type of circuit i ever saw a diagram of that i understood
12:55 <Nothing\> i mean i'm sure i'd seen diagrams before that at some point
13:26 <Nothing\> but when you open circuitmod, initially you're presented with this little example RLC circuit: https://lushprojects.com/circuitjs/circuitjs.html
13:27 <EEVBot> [Title] - 
14:00 <Nothing\> and ever since i first saw/played with that circuit like 10 years ago i became enamoured with them and electronics in general
14:13 <Nothing\> but i never really followed through with electronics until maybe 4 years ago
15:28 <Nothing\> before then i just didn't have enough knowledge to know what parts i needed, and where to get them. But after watching enough eevblog and big clive, I eventually started to catch names and understand the resistances and stuff and then discovered aliexpress and i was gone from there lol.
16:05 <Nothing\> and yet, i still haven't made a working RLC circuit that'll oscillate like the one in this example
16:29 <Ampera> mmm, some of the most activity my server ever sees, when it's updating freebsd
16:51 <Nothing\> i dunno if my RLC circuits have too low a Q factor or what
17:00 <Nothing\> i didn't know the formula for Q factor back then
17:13 <Nothing\> but given my inductors were 400 ohms it was probably pretty high
17:57 <Nothing\> lol Ampera my cats high-fived eachother the other day
18:16 <Nothing\> they both tried to swat at eachother at the same time, and their paws connected like a perfect high-five
18:32 <arch> update your face
18:33 <Nothing\> i wish so much i coulda recorded it
18:36 <arch> :3
18:44 <Nothing\> arch, that's called plastic surgery
18:50 <Nothing\> face 2.0
18:56 <Nothing\> or maybe 1.2?
19:10 <Nothing\> since it's still the same basic face, just with some variations
20:12 <Nothing\> actually i always wondered, is there some sort of standard schema when coming up with version numbers
21:09 <Nothing\> like, how does a dev figure out when an update should be a 1.2 updated to 1.2.1 or whether it should be 1.3
21:51 <Nothing\> is that up to them or is there some standard that's beyond their control?
22:33 <Ampera> Every project does it differently
22:41 <Ampera> typically you have major/minor/revision
22:53 <Nothing\> right, i've noticed that with games
22:59 <Ampera> every major is for a drastically different version of the software, one which bares little resemblance to another
23:08 <Nothing\> you get these little patches that fix minor problems with the software
23:09 Quit: watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
23:24 <Nothing\> which definitely wouldn't could as a 1.X update imo
23:30 <Ampera> minor tends to be for significant updates, changing significant things from previous minor releases, likely making something incompatible
23:41 <Ampera> and revisions are patches, released to address significant issues that cannot wait for the next minor release
23:41 <Nothing\> to me a 1.X would involve adding new content
24:10 <Nothing\> but not just a few different models or whatever. Like, something that's actually significant.
24:13 <Ampera> In some cases, like mediawiki, the major number is meaningless, and is just always there (1.35, 1.36, 1.37)
24:28 <Ampera> for browsers, they typically do similar, but the major number doesn't exist at all, and there might be a subrevision number
24:35 <Nothing\> and then you might have a 1.x.x update a week later to patch any issues from the last update
25:07 <Nothing\> Ampera, lol yeah cuz i remember with firefox they were up to like v80.something when i stopped using it
25:31 <Nothing\> and this game i play sometimes called powder toy, they're at something like v94.0
25:31 <Ampera> I am on firefox 94.0.2
25:38 <Nothing\> lol jynx
25:49 <Nothing\> actually let's see what powder toy's at
25:55 * Ampera beats Nothing\ to death with a bottle of coke
26:07 <Nothing\> v96.2
26:19 <Nothing\> it's a great game actually, if you're every feeling idle
26:33 <Nothing\> it's a lot more in depth than regular powder physics games
26:55 <Nothing\> like you can put iron into salt water and turn it into rust
27:03 <Nothing\> Ampera, how's teardown?
27:09 <Ampera> new release came out
27:14 <Nothing\> yeah i saw that
27:24 <Nothing\> i was kinda curious about it, but i've got a ton of games on my bucket list
28:54 <Nothing\> here Ampera
28:57 <Nothing\> in case you're curious
28:59 <Nothing\> https://powdertoy.co.uk/Download/powder-lin64.zip
29:03 <Ampera> I am not
29:08 <Nothing\> fair enough
29:25 <Nothing\> i just noticed they had a link for linux so i thought i'd toss it your way just in case. you never know.
29:45 <Ampera> you rarely download software off the web for linux
30:46 <arch> let me make a plus-and-minus charge pump using a 555 timer
30:55 <arch> just to see how it performs
31:20 <arch> actually scratch that
31:30 <arch> 555 timer is too inefficient
33:29 <Kuschelpony> long ago i succesfully used the TBA820m audio amp, was a powerful oscilator with minimum dropout, but its obsolete since long
33:43 <arch> let me make a plus-minus synchronous-buck-boost with two outputs, using a coupled inductor
34:35 <Kuschelpony> something like i tried with the XL4005
34:43 <arch> so i need a -3V rail for the opamp, and i should get a +3V on the other winding, which will be added on top of the Vcc; that'll get me ~8V, which is plenty to strongly drive a mosfet
35:05 <arch> 5V supply to -3V out and +3V out
35:19 <Kuschelpony> sounds interesting and doable
35:40 <arch> yep, this is one of the reasons i did that project earlier with the TPS562201 inverting-buckboost
36:04 <arch> and now that i know it's stable (with feedforward cap), even more confident
43:23 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Quit: Ex-Chat
43:49 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
50:31 <electrohead> https://old.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/rj5vsv/unepic_bruh_moment/
50:35 <EEVBot> [Title] - Un-epic bruh moment... : facepalm
09:25 <Kuschelpony> recently saw an experimental NPN transistor built on diamond
09:34 <Kuschelpony> impressive UBE 4,5V
10:04 <DHess_US> built on diamond or out of diamond?
10:20 <DHess_US> diamond can be used as n insulating substrate.
10:22 <Kuschelpony> out of diamond
10:40 <Kuschelpony> so doped diamond as semiconductor
11:40 <DHess_US> I've seen it used as the insulating substrate for some silicon on insulator designs.
12:54 <DHess_US> good for thermal conductivity and being dielectrically isolated, good for radiation resistance
15:29 <Kuschelpony> yes and yes
15:58 <Kuschelpony> arch:
16:15 <Kuschelpony> i found an MOSFET with the most impressive DC SOA
16:17 <Kuschelpony> https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/fch47n60f-d.pdf
17:59 <arch> what are you thinking of building with that?
18:11 <Kuschelpony> no idea, im just impressed
18:19 <arch> also that has a pretty large derating factor, 3.3W/C above 25C
18:40 <Kuschelpony> the derating factor is just the 1/ Rth
18:53 <arch> o
18:59 <Kuschelpony> so the bigger derating factor means just better cooling
19:42 <Kuschelpony> see it as a curve that rotates around the point of zero allowed power dissipation at maximum case temperature
20:17 <Kuschelpony> from there its an uprating factor :) how many watts you can dissipate for every °C below that limit
21:10 <DHess_US> The figure 2 graph shows that the DC SOA is a lie, they just didn't bother to measure it.
21:12 <arch> this is my idea to get both a negative rail as well as positive "boost" using a coupled inductor and synchro buck reg: https://i.imgur.com/QOsobSl.png
21:18 <DHess_US> Or it was so bad, they didn't want to print it.
22:39 <DHess_US> Below a Vgs of about 7.5 volts, the temperature coefficient is positive which means thermal runaway, just like any other MOSFET operating at high Vds and low Id.
22:54 <DHess_US> So the DC SOA graph is a lie.
24:28 <Kuschelpony> mmh :(
24:57 <T3sl4> why don't you actually test it
25:16 <arch> T3sl4, you talking to me?
25:20 <Kuschelpony> some part of me now wants to order a pack of them, run 3 amp at 100V and return these which failed withing the SOA as warranty
25:22 <T3sl4> DHess_US:
25:42 <Kuschelpony> OR
26:17 <arch> i thought semiconductors dont come with warranty?
26:18 <Kuschelpony> they have a consruction with internal ballast resistors (unlikely) per cell to still keep the curent distribution evend out, like i have seen on RF power transistors
27:07 <T3sl4> i don't know what the deal is with SJ but they very often have DC SOA, and i've tested several
27:30 <T3sl4> i guess that DHess_US hasn't tested any
27:43 <DHess_US> Like I said, figure 2 belays that.
28:27 <T3sl4> means nothing
29:23 <T3sl4> matching between devices, sure, but not on the same die
31:41 <DHess_US> The temperature coefficient reverses at high Vgs, which is why current sharing occurs between cells when devices are operating in *saturation*.
32:20 <DHess_US> Below that point where Vds is high and Vgs is lower, the temperature coefficient causes current hogging.
32:27 <T3sl4> right, it's guaranteed safe in saturation
32:45 <T3sl4> simply having an NTC is no requirement that it run away
33:14 <T3sl4> it will run away at SOME power level
33:31 <T3sl4> but that need not be within the temp rating of the device
48:16 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
48:44 <Nothing\> man, the only way my one cat drinks is from the faucet. Which means he needs somebody next to him, helping him every time drinks
55:06 <Nothing\> hey T3sl4 lemme ask you something
55:30 * T3sl4 showers on Nothing\
55:46 <Nothing\> do you use any imagine or other software for visualizing properties of molecules
55:55 <Nothing\> ooh golden showers all aroudn
56:09 <Nothing\> *imaging
56:15 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
56:19 <T3sl4> i forget what all i used in college
56:59 <T3sl4> there was also a simulation tool
57:14 <Nothing\> lol tell me about it. I had this amazing software like 10 years ago and cna't for the life of me remember what it was called
57:24 <Nothing\> gordon something or other i think
57:32 <T3sl4> gorgonzola
57:38 <Nothing\> lol
00:04 <Nothing\> i'm on the mexican whoa-oh radio
42:31 Quit: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit: Leaving
40:14 Join: Sigyn ([email protected]) to #eevblog
31:16 Quit: Sigyn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
36:06 <Some_Person> So, my Goodwill no longer allows taking pictures of things. Apparently someone recently was caught taking pictures of all the product keys on machines they had for sale, so no more pictures or filming whatsoever.
37:24 <T3sl4> https://www.reddit.com/r/blursedimages/comments/rjdpn9/blursed_dreams/ this has an odd cyriak-like quality
37:26 <EEVBot> [Title] - Reddit - Dive into anything
38:00 <T3sl4> Some_Person: lol
19:00 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://i.redd.it/4odu0ii3fb681.jpg
19:23 <Ampera> It can hear you, right now.
19:26 <Ampera> it can hear me
20:46 <T3sl4> it heard ur a lil bitch
47:51 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Quit: Like a fart in an elevator, my transgressions are soon forgotten
47:51 Quit: Lemon ([email protected]) Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
47:51 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Ampera! Your bouncer died!
53:12 Join: modrobert ([email protected]) to #eevblog
12:36 <DogWomble> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50XL37kJ3ME
12:37 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: The Scope Clock - from Cathode Corner
12:43 <DogWomble> thatś actually very damn cool!
17:30 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
18:34 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
38:54 <DHess_US> I need to mark this squeeze bottle on my workbench so I do not have to play the "is it water or glacial acetic acid" game.
47:54 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
53:07 <arch> how low of a negative bias is enough to get a lm358 to output 0V?
53:52 <arch> is -1.4V enough? ~2 diode drops?
54:06 <DHess_US> Huh? It has a PNP emitter follower output in parallel with a 50 microamp current sink to ground.
54:18 <DHess_US> That would do it.
54:27 <DHess_US> 1 diode voltage drop should do it.
54:55 <arch> cool
59:03 <DHess_US> The reason it does not have an NPN output is that it would be difficult to stabilize, which is the case for common emitter outputs. It would have removed more integrated capacitors. Check out the schematic of the LM10 operational amplifier for an example.
59:13 <DHess_US> removed? required
00:44 <DHess_US> It has more then 300 picofarads more capacitance, which is 50 times more than a 358
25:46 Quit: arekm ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
25:57 Join: arekm ([email protected]) to #eevblog
26:15 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Troubleshooting the Zappi, the grid CT failed. Turned out to be those bloody solder sleeves, one looked OK but was… https://t.co/hCx9GZ369f
29:44 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - RT @M5Jfs: A nice accessory for those long cosy evenings in the shack this winter?🕯️🤣 https://t.co/gYyHWgY9eV
04:29 Join: Sigyn ([email protected]) to #eevblog
21:24 Join: velotopian ([email protected]) to #eevblog
22:15 Quit: velotopian ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
57:18 Quit: adsr ([email protected]) Quit: WeeChat 3.3
01:41 Quit: coppice_ ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
04:20 Quit: Sigyn ([email protected]) Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1
34:17 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #eevblog
35:55 <Halcyon> Stupid NBN
41:51 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #eevblog
42:01 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Changing hosts
42:01 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #eevblog
42:20 Join: Lemon ([email protected]) to #eevblog
42:35 <Halcyon> Lemonnnnn
42:41 * Ampera hugs Halcyon 
42:43 <Ampera> how are you doing Halcyon
42:51 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #eevblog
43:48 <Ampera> fine
43:48 <Ampera> ignore me
43:49 <Ampera> cunt
44:02 <Halcyon> I was trying to :P
44:05 * Halcyon licks Ampera
44:10 <Halcyon> I'm doing OK, how are you?
44:16 <Ampera> my thinkpad shipped
44:24 <Ampera> and as a result, I've made a big fat B&H order
44:25 <Halcyon> YAY!
44:30 <Halcyon> Monitor?
44:34 <Ampera> thunderbolt tax
44:42 <Halcyon> Oh for the dock?
44:47 <Ampera> aye
44:53 <Halcyon> Fair enough
44:54 <Ampera> 340 buckeroos
44:58 <Halcyon> Gees
45:04 <Ampera> it's a very nice dock though
45:22 <Ampera> 3 monitor outputs (4 if you count the thunderbolt daisy chain), and 10Gb USB
45:38 <Halcyon> Noice
45:47 <Ampera> I also ordered a thunderbolt capture card from blackmagic
45:55 <Ampera> their most basic one, but still beats the snot out of my USB 3 cards
45:56 <Halcyon> Lovely
46:01 <Halcyon> I love their gear
46:15 <Ampera> B&H also had to have a deal on 970 Evo's
46:21 <Halcyon> How much?
46:24 <Ampera> so I got 2x1TB of them for 100USD each
46:29 <Halcyon> Gee that's not bad
46:33 <Ampera> which is damn good for samsung
46:43 <Ampera> gonna end up with 3x1TB in the laptop, which is better than my desktop has
47:05 <Ampera> planning on having it in two pools, root on the PCIe 4 one the laptop comes with, and storage on the other two
47:15 <Halcyon> My buy price for those is AUD$174.90
47:25 <Ampera> I also bought some rolls of film
47:33 <Halcyon> Which is about $125 USD
47:42 <Ampera> 125USD is about the going rate for those
47:53 <Halcyon> Yeh that's my wholesale price
47:58 <Halcyon> So $100 is pretty damn good
48:06 <Ampera> in the end my B&H total was 765 USD
48:09 <Ampera> >.<
48:12 <Halcyon> (Our prices are including tax btw)
48:18 <Ampera> ours are not
48:19 <Halcyon> I don't know if you normally have to add tax to yours?
48:22 <Ampera> tax is 8 USD for 100 USD
48:46 <Halcyon> Yeh our sales tax is 10%
48:53 <Ampera> that's actually pretty low
49:01 <Ampera> not like the extortionist VATs they have in the EU
49:22 <Halcyon> I think it should be a bit higher to be honest, rather than taxing income
49:37 <Halcyon> (Or rather, not taxing income so much)
49:45 <Halcyon> But to be fair, the income tax has dropped
50:03 <Ampera> I imagine our income tax is gonna start getting cruel
50:19 <Halcyon> https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/
50:21 <EEVBot> [Title] -
50:22 <Ampera> the fed dug itself into a hole
50:24 <Halcyon> Those are ours at the moment
50:36 <Ampera> our income tax rates vary by state, as there are two (sometimes three)
50:47 <Ampera> if you live in NYC, you pay three separate income taxes
50:52 <Halcyon> Fuck that for a joke
50:59 <Ampera> no joke
51:36 <Halcyon> As much as I can't stand Linus Tech Tips, I actually like his "Northern Lights" desk mat: https://www.lttstore.com/products/deskpad
51:36 <Ampera> The paradox of our governments is they only start cranking up the taxes when they've dug themselves into massive holes
51:38 <EEVBot> [Title] -
51:45 <Ampera> they don't do it to, say, improve local infrastructure
51:53 <Ampera> I don't like desk mats.
52:05 <Halcyon> I like the idea of them, not sure what I'd use it for though?
52:07 <Ampera> I eat at my desk, so it'd become dirty in a week
52:14 <Halcyon> Maybe a card playing surface?
52:15 <Ampera> huh?
52:23 <Ampera> you use it for what it was intended for
52:24 <Ampera> a desk mat
52:33 <Halcyon> Yes but I wouldn't use it at my computer
52:39 <Halcyon> It would serve no purpose
53:29 <Ampera> going on amazon to find a cooling base to use for my laptop
53:34 <Ampera> they all look like such cheap garbage
53:47 <Halcyon> We bought some decent ones at work the other day
53:53 <Halcyon> They look decent and solid
54:00 <Ampera> I used to have this nice solid aluminum one from NZXT years ago
54:01 <Halcyon> I'll try found out what brand they are
54:05 <Ampera> seems they don't sell it anymore
54:48 <Ampera> I simply grabbed one
54:57 <Ampera> 20 bucks, if it's shit, it's shit
55:57 * Halcyon throws $20 at Ampera
56:17 <Ampera> gonna need a lot more than that for me to whore out to you
56:38 <Halcyon> https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/laptops-&-notebooks/cooling/74008-dp-n222-n80rgb
56:39 <EEVBot> [Title] - Please Wait... | Cloudflare
56:43 <Halcyon> These are the ones we have at work
56:52 <Ampera> -1 for RGB
57:07 <Halcyon> Oh yeh we didn't buy it for those
57:52 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMhUpI9nA3k
57:53 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Nikocado Avocado is Doomed
57:56 <Halcyon> Why the fuck is that a thing?
58:09 <Ampera> why are you posting links about it
58:14 <Halcyon> (Heart Attack Grill)
58:18 <Ampera> yes
58:19 <Ampera> we know
58:22 <Ampera> stop shoving it in our faces
58:36 <Halcyon> I wasn't. I just had no idea that it was even a thing
58:42 <Ampera> you're closest to the koreans, you ask them why they haven't put a hit out on him yet.
58:57 <Halcyon> Wha?
59:03 <Ampera> you heard me
59:20 <Halcyon> I don't understand ?
59:22 <Ampera> I'm one of the voices in your head telling you that crapping your pants isn't a big deal, accidents happen
59:24 <Halcyon> Who is him?
59:36 <Ampera> I tell you what's right and what's wrong, and you have to listen to me
59:42 <Ampera> in your dreams, in your sleep, I'm there, screaming
59:43 <Ampera> yelling
59:44 <Ampera> begging
59:47 <Ampera> asking for you to stop
59:47 <Halcyon> You're confusing
59:50 <Ampera> but you keep killing
00:05 <Ampera> because secretly you like the anger, you like the screaming
00:14 <Ampera> you hear nothing but blood, the same which you extract from your victims
00:47 * Halcyon cuddles Ampera
00:58 <Ampera> how is birb
01:18 <Halcyon> He's OK, did I tell you Mark moved out a week ago?
01:23 <Ampera> you told me he was moving out
01:27 <Ampera> you didn't say he had done it already
01:27 <Halcyon> Yeh
01:40 <Ampera> so now there's nobody there but you and my voice inside your head
01:42 <Halcyon> So I'll be giving Jerry to his step-mum, she has other birds already
01:56 <Ampera> I recall you saying it was his bird
02:00 <Ampera> why not give it to him
02:20 <Halcyon> He doesn't have anywhere to keep him apparently. Plus he can't look after himself, let alone a little bird
02:37 <Halcyon> So he's better off going somewhere where he will get the care and attention he needs
02:38 <Ampera> did I tell you we got two more cats?
02:40 <Ampera> to make five in total
02:48 <Halcyon> So you're a crazy cat lady now?
02:52 <Ampera> no
02:56 <Ampera> it wasn't my idea
03:35 <Halcyon> I guess I should ask for a pic?
03:50 <Ampera> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/635631712113786890/921084905495089173/20211216_120225.jpg
04:11 <Halcyon> Naww
04:17 <Halcyon> Stupid fluffy assholes
04:24 <Ampera> brother and sister kittens
05:04 <Halcyon> I need to wee wee
05:07 <Ampera> Excited for my laptop. It'll be nice having a GPU that's not a potato
09:05 <Halcyon> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/c8/93/51c893e7a515a9f468e5ac1265aba2be.jpg
09:40 <Ampera> looks like a tazmanian
09:56 <Halcyon> I'm making beef vindaloo tonight
09:59 <Halcyon> Om nom nom
10:05 <Ampera> I had pizza
13:57 Join: Halcyon_ ([email protected]) to #eevblog
14:09 <Halcyon_> Stupid hotspot
14:25 <Ampera> you need a ZNC
14:55 <Halcyon_> It won't help if I can't connect to it :P
15:01 <Ampera> yes it will
15:04 <Ampera> that's the whole point of a ZNC
15:13 <Halcyon_> If I'm not there to read it, why do I care?
15:27 <Ampera> because it can record a backlog and play it back when you reconnect
15:46 <Ampera> it also keeps your place so you don't keep disconnecting all over
15:55 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:09 <Halcyon_> Meh I don't really care that much about backlog
16:14 <Halcyon_> I probably won't read it
17:12 <Ampera> you don't need to, it's mostly in case someone pings you or sends you a DM
17:22 <Halcyon_> *shrug*
20:13 <Halcyon_> I should put the bins out
20:15 <Halcyon_> But CBF
56:33 <Halcyon_> *sigh* Time to take out the trash
56:37 <Halcyon_> .... come on Ampera, let's go
34:38 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
46:08 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Quit: Ex-Chat
46:28 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
27:42 <steve30> hi
29:30 <Kuschelpony> Hello
29:38 <Kuschelpony> good sunday morning
33:18 * steve30 pokes Halcyon_ 
46:22 * steve30 purrs at the ampera-kitties
47:25 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
01:17 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) EOF from client
14:50 <steve30> "A Kill the Bill rioter has been jailed for 14 years despite claiming his new gender neutral “they” pronoun would make prison life difficult."
39:23 Quit: Halcyon_ ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
43:54 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Went to have a dude co-op session playing the new Halo Infinite. NOPE. Doesn't support co-op campaign, and you have… https://t.co/SHuvuFCZtI
13:27 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #eevblog
13:35 <Halcyon> Mew
13:48 * steve30 meows at Halcyon 
14:03 <Halcyon> :)
14:35 <steve30> I went to the gym the other day. There was a guy there who reminded me of someone I saw in a porn video.
14:58 <Halcyon> Oh yeh? Did you get all moist?
16:22 <steve30> hehe
27:09 <Halcyon> Steve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W85oD8FEF78
27:09 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Jurassic Park but with a Cat
29:05 <steve30> meow :)
29:13 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhuf-wS1CbI
29:13 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: If Geralt had a Cat (OwlKitty + Witcher)
29:18 <Halcyon> Bahahah that one's good too
30:30 * steve30 climbs up Halcyon 
37:09 <Halcyon> I'm going to go lay down for a bit
37:12 <Halcyon> Laters
37:18 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
42:16 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
50:47 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/fpusGxD.jpg
54:12 <steve30> Here's one for T3sl4: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24340362@N08/6387803533/in/dateposted/
54:13 <EEVBot> [Title] - Black Magic on the 1084S | It looks so uncomfortable, and it… | Flickr
54:34 <T3sl4> meow
56:58 <Kuschelpony> whinny
57:14 * T3sl4 brushies Kuschelpony
01:25 * steve30 curls up on top of T3sl4 
01:39 * T3sl4 brushies steve30
18:51 <Kuschelpony> nice retro project https://www.uhrenwerkstattforum.de/t10637f81-Ein-Roehren-Audion.html
18:52 <EEVBot> [Title] - Error 502
28:24 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Little know fact for Aussies: If you buy something with your crypto that's shot up in value, you don't pay any capi… https://t.co/bq6lYORjoZ
51:15 <Kuschelpony> whinny
16:13 <Kuschelpony> have you experience with baking wood to make it harder?
45:42 <T3sl4> haven't heard of it
46:00 <T3sl4> wait, wendel is doing a series on strength testing, maybe suggest some tests like that?
47:01 <T3sl4> he did one with temps, uhh one did end up pretty baked, maybe not exactly what you're thinking tho
47:59 <T3sl4> er, wandel*
48:33 <T3sl4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpjf5KoqpRQ
48:34 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: What I learned from breaking 100 pieces of wood
49:19 <Kuschelpony> ah
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