// #eevblog — 2021-12-15
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00:00:15 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Mailbag video inelligible for monetisation. I think I know why, there is a PCB badge that flashes the mRNA vaccine… https://t.co/D0tRsrEyhC
01:01:06 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - NEW EEVblog Video! EEVblog 1444 - XMAS Mailbag! https://t.co/fWkvwQyE1x
01:26:18 Join: Sigyn ([email protected]) to #eevblog
01:28:18 <Sigyn> https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob
01:28:19 <EEVBot> [Title] - Toyota is going to make you pay to start your car with your key fob - The Verge
01:28:54 <Sigyn> I wonder if you disable the cellular radio so it can't phone home, if it would continue to work.
01:30:17 <electrohead> probably not, heh
01:30:23 <electrohead> "needs to be in communication"
01:30:29 <electrohead> the new way of life, apparently
03:01:29 Join: TheDude ([email protected]) to #eevblog
03:17:57 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
03:40:49 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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03:47:23 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:51:39 <jaymax> Toyota's death rattle. I know groups pushing back on that - that shit gonna stink.
04:52:39 <Sigyn> Hopefully someone can figure out how to bypass it
04:53:43 <jaymax> The real problem is below the surface. In order to have that subscription viable, Toyota will need to limit repair. It's the next step of "Car as a Service", and the anti-repair implications *will* be seismic.
04:53:53 <jaymax> FTW, fuck Tesla.
04:54:10 <jaymax> T3sl4 is cool tho.
04:54:59 <T3sl4> fuck musk
04:55:18 <Sigyn> At least I like somewhere where the useful life of cars is not determined by rust
04:55:22 <Sigyn> I like spaceX
04:55:28 <Sigyn> not so much starlink
04:55:37 <Sigyn> but Falcon 9s are really awesome
04:55:47 <Sigyn> not like a OMG MUSK IS SO COOL kinda guy though
04:57:03 <T3sl4> we can appreciate the engineering done by the workers, while also observing how they are being exploited by a billionare who doesn't give half a shit about any of them
04:57:27 <jaymax> IMO, the funny thing about starlink is how it invalidates the purpose of Tesla, *unless* the point of the car company is to pivot full-on to a Lyft competitor the moment they achieve full-self-driving. Which I really believe will happen.
04:59:05 <T3sl4> uber/lyft seem ahead of their time, in that they tried to be disruptive and gain just enough market share to be relevant, then coast into self driving ezpz while firing their crew wholesale
04:59:32 <T3sl4> which has taken longer than they expected, if that was the plan i mean
04:59:41 <jaymax> As in, people are buying cars that will never have FSD. Once the algo is fiugured out, the company makes a taxi fleet with all the needed sensors, and your car goes into maintenance support mode.
05:00:42 <jaymax> Musky is selling gimped prototypes to get free mass training data.
05:00:59 <T3sl4> yeah
05:01:07 <Sigyn> The Falcons have changed space flight forever
05:01:14 <Sigyn> and are so much cheaper
05:01:23 <Sigyn> but yeah I'm not a fan of self driving cars
05:01:36 <Sigyn> especially with regards to bicycles
05:01:43 <jaymax> FSD can EAD
05:01:58 <T3sl4> i'd love to have livable, walkable, rideable cities here
05:02:11 <Sigyn> there are groups that want to make bicycles have transponders and more limited road use rights because it's too hard for self driving cars to deal with bicycles
05:02:25 <Sigyn> F that
05:02:49 <Sigyn> I like bicycles because of the freedom and fusion of man and machine.
05:02:58 <T3sl4> because we can't have nice things, i spent $5000 replacing the car that i drove like 1000 miles last year
05:03:32 <jaymax> Indeed. I own three bicycles. At one point it was four.
05:03:54 <Sigyn> I own four
05:04:00 <Sigyn> at one point it was five
05:04:01 <Sigyn> pwned
05:04:11 <T3sl4> fight fight fight
05:04:12 <jaymax> I've been dicking around with the Bafang hack on one of them.
05:04:17 <Sigyn> I like old bicycles too, newest one is a 99 model
05:32:36 <DHess_US> Bypassing it will violate both the DMCA and CFAA.
05:32:47 <DHess_US> Happy with your legislator now?
05:34:20 <Sigyn> :/
05:34:40 <Sigyn> It's not a copy protection mechanism though
05:34:55 <DHess_US> It isn't like this is a new thing. It has existed in cars since at least GM's "onstar" or whatever it is called.
05:34:55 <Sigyn> and if I don't touch a remote network it's not cfaa
05:38:17 <DHess_US> There is no requirement for network access, and even if there was, this remote start system relies on network access.
05:38:35 <Sigyn> Only with the phone app
05:38:35 <DHess_US> The DMCA applies because if you violate the EULA, then you are executing copyrighted code.
05:38:37 <Sigyn> not the keyfob
05:39:06 <Sigyn> The subscription applies to the keyfob as well
05:40:54 <DHess_US> The subscription is enforced through network access.
05:42:47 <DHess_US> <T3sl4> because we can't have nice things, i spent $5000 replacing the car that i drove like 1000 miles last year
05:42:47 <DHess_US> What?
05:43:10 <T3sl4> old car falling apart, needed a new one
05:45:24 <Ampera> I'm looking forward to my new Subaru
05:45:36 <Ampera> I have no clue how stingy Subaru is on repair and such, I guess I'll find out
05:45:50 <Ampera> I haven't heard anything yet egregious about them, so I'm taking that as a good sign
05:46:18 <T3sl4> engines can blow up or something? then again ppl like to turbo them so that would happen
05:46:58 <DHess_US> You might be thinking of BMW, but Subaru might have that problem also.
05:47:15 <DHess_US> Some engines modern engine designs have poor reliability.
05:48:14 <DHess_US> Yea, Subaru has had a few engine recalls which should never have happened.
05:48:33 <DHess_US> "Despite Subaru’s track record for reliable vehicles, their 2.5 L engine has become almost infamous in the automobile industry for having problems. Specifically, these engines have been susceptible to leaking head gaskets and it was such an ongoing issue that it almost became a joke amongst mechanics."
05:49:02 <DHess_US> https://www.cashcarsbuyer.com/subaru-engine-problems/
05:49:05 <EEVBot> [Title] - ❤️ Subaru Engine Problems ❤️ Everything You Need to Know
05:49:50 <Ampera> Is there a company that hasn't had some sort of major engine recall or known reliability problem?
05:50:22 <Ampera> This is what I hate about cars. I'm all for having preferences, but people will get completely irrational about the reputation of their favorite brands.
05:51:09 <T3sl4> some more than others
05:51:21 <T3sl4> but i don't know the numbers between em all
05:55:11 <T3sl4> or other random shit like GM fucking up ignition switches somehow
06:03:35 Join: Hydron ([email protected]) to #eevblog
06:09:49 <DHess_US> Ampera, some engine models are just bad, and never get fixed.
06:13:46 <DHess_US> Like the head gasket problem described in that article. Toyota had a problem like that with their aluminum block Supras.
06:39:33 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #eevblog
07:12:40 <TheDude> oh lol :D
07:13:03 <TheDude> the christmas mailbag made me realize just how bloody old I've gotten
07:13:46 <TheDude> also Sagan is in that peak cringe age zone from the looks of it
07:17:57 Quit: jaymacks ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
07:26:55 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
08:57:18 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
09:27:30 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Other electronics creators are having random random videos marked Ineligible for monetisation. I'm seeing a few too. https://t.co/h6X5QTuhfi
09:29:06 Quit: DogWomble_ ([email protected]) EOF from client
09:29:23 Join: DogWomble_ ([email protected]) to #eevblog
09:30:19 Join: jaymacks ([email protected]) to #eevblog
09:30:59 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Going though half a dozen pages of videos, and these videos have been hit: https://t.co/IPmDySoHbG
09:51:49 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - My state of NSW ends the authoritarian two tier papers please society today. Unfortunately QLD have just started.
10:00:30 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Also, no more mask restrictions in shopping centres and most other places. And just like last time, mask wearers wi… https://t.co/trRketBdRl
10:02:14 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - RT @GregDavill: When working with inside corners for PCB cutouts, keep in mind the milling bit cutting your board edge has a radius (...Unl…
10:20:30 <DHess_US> Can't stop laughing, https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEiE77O0Oa3Fclzc-_rKNKNt2xfemBBmZXC_JRFxhQc9scfxW93kBDuJ7W2iX0Fq3SVPQOfGDsfjHj0jpuKmtHe_YRtSIlqkzal_iKu08_i3QT-LQGLr41wxB-mrtlgXKxSoKzC7EbuqrcNz3palHGg4wrTLgsbyGIqL1YJXcnY-mDlU8hK7UnzmYA3V=w398-h400
10:55:25 <arch> pls no boomer humor in here, kthx
10:56:05 <arch> only deepfried memes, thats what genz likes
10:58:24 <coppice> arch: so you want a popcorn stuffed turducken?
10:58:45 Join: rust_collector ([email protected]) to #eevblog
11:00:08 Join: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) to #eevblog
11:00:24 <arch> https://www.memevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/25-best-deep-fried-memes-4.webp
11:00:29 <rust_collector> hoioo
11:01:17 <jaymax> hoioo
11:01:23 <jaymax> its home from work we go
11:01:28 <arch> nice
11:01:34 <arch> thats always nice
11:01:42 <rust_collector> oh. I have the week off, so... NA NA!!
11:01:44 <arch> im actually more productive wfh
11:02:27 <arch> gonna etch out a pcb shortly
11:02:36 <arch> eating a cheese stick
11:02:44 <rust_collector> what is todays project, arch?
11:02:48 * arch dips in ferric chloride
11:03:09 <arch> today's project is a synchronous buck-boost regulator, TPS562201, used in inverting buck-boost config
11:03:33 <arch> this is what it looks like: https://i.imgur.com/d7JLoe6.png and https://i.imgur.com/QFuI3If.png
11:03:46 <rust_collector> gawd, that is a long name
11:04:39 <rust_collector> oh, ti, so that makes sense
11:05:14 <rust_collector> well, good luck with that. It seems like a thing that should work ok, without too much messing around
11:05:53 <arch> yea, this is a good appnote about that config: https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN-1168.pdf
11:06:23 * rust_collector just came back from the garage, I cleaned the bench, and put the vise on fire again.
11:08:01 <rust_collector> and last night, I realized human league is from the land of mr steve30
11:08:18 <rust_collector> there has to be something in the water there
11:09:06 * electrohead films
11:10:53 * arch films electrohead filming
11:11:00 * electrohead strips naked
11:13:32 Quit: TheDude ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
11:13:39 * rust_collector stays naked, as is tradition
11:17:13 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - My most popular video this year is an oldie: https://t.co/yhLtsF7jg7
11:56:15 <steve30> yup, human league are from just up the road
11:56:54 <rust_collector> wheee!
12:15:50 <coppice> steve30: they were paid off by big synthesizer
12:16:33 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - For reference, just went to the local shopping centre, maybe 35-40% masks. Was practically 100% yesterday. Mask mandate was lifted today.
12:30:16 <steve30> So 60% of australian shoppers are practically murdering each other
12:30:52 <coppice> steve30: are the sales on?
12:39:46 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
13:28:45 <Nothing\> interesting
13:29:54 <Nothing\> my mum's got these icicle xmas fairy lights. it's like a strand of fair lights, and every so often is a plastic icicle with lights running down the center that blink to make it look like they're dripping or something. But the regular fairy lights on the strand do nothing.
13:30:34 <Nothing\> and now all of a sudden they don't work right, the icicles don't light up at all, and the fairy lights light up barely visibly and stay on for several minutes after the power's been cut
13:30:53 <Nothing\> so, i guess they contracted some sort of zombie virus
13:31:46 <arch> T3sl4, i etched it out, my synchro buck reg to inverting pcb. it's so shiiiny
13:31:55 <arch> cleanest etch ever
13:32:05 <T3sl4> yey
13:32:20 <Nothing\> i told my mum i'd have a look inside the box with the electronics for them and see if there's a popped cap or something obvious. It sounds like it uses a capacitive power supply at least. But that's all I can figure from it. I'll have to poke around with my meter tomorrow
13:32:23 <arch> soldering it now, should be done in 30m
13:33:57 <Nothing\> oh yeah i was also trying to fix an old decoration she had from the 90's. This nice little Coke decoration from Hallmark with a little mechanized scene playing out while a music box chimes away the theme they used in the 90's
13:34:23 <Nothing\> was just a wind-up thing but it had batteries for the lights, so i opened it up to find a couple of Kodak brand batteries
13:34:31 <Nothing\> i feel compelled to keep them
13:34:45 <Nothing\> the one leaked a tad, but otherwise they're in amazing condition
13:34:52 <Nothing\> for having expired in 1996
13:35:43 <Nothing\> i should test the voltage on the one that didn't leak. See what it's at, if anything after a quarter century
13:35:53 <Nothing\> the ammonium chloride's probably all dried out
13:42:00 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Another delay for the JWST. Is there a fixed end date to the launch window? https://t.co/wd2kTGANmA
13:45:06 * electrohead ferric's arch's chloride
13:58:45 * Ampera hugs Nothing\
14:08:41 * steve30 watches EEVChristmas
14:09:25 Quit: Sigyn ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
14:38:26 <arch> IT WORRRRKSSS
14:38:36 <arch> im gonna show off to Kuchel tomorrow
14:54:07 <arch> hehe this is funny
14:54:29 <arch> so the synchro buck starts up at 4.5V, but shuts down at around 1V and regulates the output to the specified -6.5V
14:54:45 <arch> funny and interesting
14:55:06 <arch> the duty cycle should be quite large
14:55:15 <arch> i should get the waveforms. pictures coming up soon
14:55:55 <T3sl4> arch: not down to that under full load i'm willing to bet :^)
14:56:26 <arch> cool, input down to 1V, it regulates to -6.5V, zero load condition
14:56:35 <arch> yeap, for sure its gonna drop out under load
15:01:27 <arch> T3sl4, https://imgur.com/a/C4IuLc8
15:01:27 <EEVBot> [Title] - TPS562201 Synchronous Buck Converter In Buck-Boost Configuration - Album on Imgur
15:01:43 <T3sl4> ya
15:02:05 <arch> dat layout :3
15:02:10 <arch> luv it
15:02:18 * T3sl4 headpats arch
15:02:31 <arch> :3
15:03:15 <arch> tomorrow i will put it through a transient load test to see if it's stable. well, it's not like i can even compensate it; it's an internally compensated reg
15:06:20 <arch> i have used this reg 3x so far, so i don't doubt it will be unstable
15:06:30 <T3sl4> nice to have a selection of power inductors and large capacitors to do that
15:08:46 <arch> at zero load an 5V input, input cap seeing a ripple of 110mV
15:08:52 <arch> it's in PFM mode
15:09:02 <arch> 1.31kHz
15:10:25 <arch> zero load output ripple is 19mV pp, niiice
15:10:40 <arch> should be even lesser in PWM
15:11:48 <arch> short circuit test passes. it survives. input current drops to ~0.1A at 5V. it'll probably overheat and shutdown in a few mins like that
15:13:09 <arch> fuck it, let me get my cc load
15:13:16 <arch> im gonna get me some data
15:16:08 <DHess_US> solder wick?
15:16:41 <arch> DHess_US, yes
15:16:51 <arch> very good, cheap, low inductance :D
15:16:57 <arch> ultra low resistance too
15:17:24 <DHess_US> Now lower than copper, and if you need low inductance at the input and output, something is wrong.
15:17:45 <DHess_US> I've tried using solder wick for flexible connections and it never works out well.
15:17:46 <arch> i dont need it, i just didn't have copper wire
15:17:47 <DHess_US> Too fragile
15:18:07 <arch> this is just a proof of concept PCB. it's not meant for driving anything. it's purely for obtaining research data
15:18:13 <arch> i just wanted to make one
15:18:26 <arch> never built a synchronous buck based inverting reg, so i made one
15:19:35 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/s0NQMkj.png
15:20:21 <arch> i have a small box where i stuff any research pcbs that i made
15:21:09 <arch> that way i can reminisce in the future, and get data again if i decide to change up some components and see how it affects stuff
15:31:09 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
15:40:42 <Kuschelpony> good orning
15:40:46 <Kuschelpony> good Morning
15:41:10 <arch> Kuschelpony!
15:41:14 <arch> i was looking for you
15:41:18 <Kuschelpony> Hello arch
15:41:18 <EEVBot> Hello, Kuschelpony!
15:41:24 <arch> i made my synchro buck inverting conv!
15:41:27 <Kuschelpony> good that i have taken a day off work and now i am here for you
15:41:31 <Kuschelpony> oh nice
15:41:34 <arch> https://imgur.com/a/C4IuLc8
15:41:36 <EEVBot> [Title] - TPS562201 Synchronous Buck Converter In Buck-Boost Configuration - Album on Imgur
15:41:51 <arch> i am testing its efficiency right now
15:41:56 <Kuschelpony> im currently diddling with the board layout fpr the UC3842
15:41:57 <arch> with my constant current load
15:42:34 <Kuschelpony> also will buy some more stuff to play the next weeks
15:44:25 <arch> hmm. so it seems 1A is too much. it overheats and starts oscillatin shutting off and back on
15:44:35 <Kuschelpony> i think one of my next in-between-projects will be an independ power supply box for tube projects that i do not always need to connect a rectifier to the variac box
15:44:35 <arch> 0.75A seems stable at -6.5V out
15:44:42 <Kuschelpony> hmm ok
15:45:16 <arch> which is fine for me because i only need about 0.6A tops
15:45:37 <Kuschelpony> also someone donated me a keithley millivoltmeter with broken power supply, perhaps the transformer has shorted but i have not yet dissassembled it deep enough
15:50:00 <Kuschelpony> also looking at some non-electronic stuff
15:51:55 <arch> my constant current load is putting a large amplitude, ~30kHz waveform on top of the 580kHz switching frequency of the regulator
15:52:01 <arch> i guess this is why they use resistive loads...
15:52:28 <Kuschelpony> uhm, likely yes
15:52:45 <arch> yeah i even checked the gate drive of my cc load
15:54:12 <arch> let me show you what the output voltage waveform looks like. it is actually 42mV pp ripple, excluding the effect of the constant current load's ripple
15:54:16 <Kuschelpony> i have found out, a inductor on (aged lossy) #26 iron powder toroid is a very good way to choke high frequency ripple but not introduce resonances
15:55:35 <arch> T3sl4, Kuschelpony https://i.imgur.com/H5kDnMs.png
15:55:37 <Kuschelpony> i also have somewhere an current transformer wound on a slit toroid that was meant as clamp-on common mode choke
15:55:54 <arch> that large waveform on top is the constant current load affecting the output ripple
15:56:06 <arch> it seems if i had a resistive load, ripple would be ~50mV pp
15:56:18 <arch> this is at 0.75A load, 5V input, -6.5V out
15:56:28 <Kuschelpony> yes, perhaps even less
15:56:58 <arch> what is this effect called? the large amplitude low freq ripple?
15:57:03 <arch> for an electronic load
15:57:11 <Kuschelpony> what i see with the sharp spikes looks to me that its either too much inductance of your filtering capacitor or inductively coupled from the converter to your probe but perhaps the real ripple is even less
15:57:21 <DHess_US> Kuschelpony, lossier at higher frequencies. Powdered iron has a lot of advantages if lower frequency operation is acceptable.
15:57:30 <Kuschelpony> hmm, i have no special name, just would call it oscilating
15:57:43 <Kuschelpony> dhess, thats exactly what i meant
15:57:56 <Kuschelpony> espically aged #26 from a broken ATX gets really lossy
15:58:05 <arch> so this behavior is not just limited to "DIY" builds of cc loads, but even professional grade ones that are bought?
15:58:20 <DHess_US> Modern designs tend to go for higher frequencies for higher power density so can't use powdered iron.
15:58:25 <Kuschelpony> recently i also measured a #18 from an mainboard, that coil had a Q around 60 even up at 100kHz
15:58:53 <Kuschelpony> arch, im not sure but perhaps many of them can be brought to oscilation with the right wrong impedances
15:59:22 <arch> well, i have about 3 feet of wires going into it, maybe that's related
15:59:35 <arch> from the load terminal input to the cc terminal
15:59:53 <DHess_US> You can always operate at higher frequency if the peak flux is lower. Powdered iron has a soft saturation characteristic which makes it more forgiving.
16:00:23 <DHess_US> But it also means that a small signal Q measurement isn't very relevant to large signal operation.
16:01:10 <DHess_US> Back when I was testing random cores, I made an inductance tester which made the measurement at high currents to get the saturation as well.
16:01:35 <DHess_US> Did some heavy math also.
16:01:50 <Kuschelpony> i also have one of them laying around but gave up using them, since i changed to estimating the B with faradays law
16:02:04 <Kuschelpony> just set 0,2T for ferrite and everything goes well
16:02:06 <DHess_US> I should make a power B-H curve tracer. That would be fun.
16:02:36 <Kuschelpony> its caled "Ferroskop" in germany since the 1930s
16:02:40 <Kuschelpony> sure it is
16:03:26 <Kuschelpony> you need basically a variac for powering the primary coil, and a inegrator (or RC quasi integrator) on a secondary coil
16:03:50 <DHess_US> My impedance bridge has schematics for using it to measure inductance and loss at high DC currents, but I have never tried it because it only operates at 1 kHz.
16:04:11 <Kuschelpony> or the very arcane way how they did it in the 1900s, place the test coil with the iron you want to check and a air core coil in 90° angle around the CRT
16:06:23 <Kuschelpony> lol, how to build an tube opamp for 27kV supply voltage http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/Hochspannung10kV-TU_Berlin/Hochsp-Netzteil.htm
16:06:24 <EEVBot> [Title] - Projekt Stabilisierte Hochspannungsquelle 7..12 kV in Vollroehrentechnik der TU Berlin
16:07:13 <Kuschelpony> hope they have measured the xray shielding to do well
16:08:03 <arch> 75% efficiency at 4.25V in, -6.5V out @ 0.6A
16:08:12 <arch> it gets quite hot
16:09:09 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:09:55 <arch> well, in the rare care i dont have a boost reg, i could use a synch buck in inverting config
16:10:02 <arch> for a "boost" stage
16:10:38 <Kuschelpony> good to know
16:11:29 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #eevblog
16:11:39 <arch> http://schmidt-walter-schaltnetzteile.de/smpstemp/smps_e104979385.png
16:11:50 <arch> 1.61A average! no wonder it's getting hot
16:13:01 <arch> it's a good solution for low current stuff
16:20:44 <arch> i wonder if efficiency will increase a few % if i added an external schottky
16:21:23 <arch> probably will hurt it in low load conditions, as the controller can't get into PFM where inductor current would go negative
16:39:37 <arch> night all
16:45:03 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Clickbait title poll for a blab video I just shot: 1) Why are Fluke Meters Expensive? 2) The Suprising Reasons Why… https://t.co/Ibbsv36jSO
17:24:20 <Nothing\> holy crap
17:24:22 <Nothing\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls#1991
17:24:23 <EEVBot> [Title] - List of nuclear close calls - Wikipedia
17:24:27 <Nothing\> the gulf war almost went nuclear
17:24:58 <Nothing\> not to mention all the other items in the list being equally or more terrifying
17:30:59 <Nothing\> After the 1969 EC-121 shootdown incident, F-4 Phantom fighter jets at Kunsan Air Base were ordered to load B61 nuclear bombs and began planning and preparations for a nuclear strike against the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea).[23] After a few hours, the order to stand down was given. The jet never took off. Reportedly, President Richard Nixon was drunk when he gave the order for a nuclear attac
17:30:59 <Nothing\> The order to stand down was given on the advice of Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
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