#d&d - 2012-09-02 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2012-09-02

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« 2012-09-01 2012-09-03 »
24:49 <Mekkis> Avatar, any problem with me bringing Grolschmir next Sunday?
31:23 <Mekkis> Diazane, could you receive a laptop for me and ship it to Australia?
34:49 <Brunius> Diazine, could you receive four booster boxes for me and ship them to Australia?
35:20 <Mekkis> Brunius, how much would you pay for two boxes of Future Sight?
35:45 <Brunius> Wow
36:48 <Brunius> 300ish?
36:58 <Mekkis> shipped?
37:01 <Mekkis> from the states?
37:02 <Mekkis> each?
37:08 <Brunius> In a purely hypothetical situation where I had the cash
41:41 <Brunius> I'm being told 310 for two ( + shipping) is a fair price
42:22 <Mekkis> who told you that?
42:29 <Brunius> A friend.
42:30 <Mekkis> hell, I'd pay that
42:45 <Mekkis> and you know how often I buy boxes
06:27 <jaggedsoul> Hi guys
08:04 tashphones has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
11:15 <jaggedsoul> hello
30:00 <Steven> what up
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38:00 <Brunius> woah
38:04 <Brunius> jagged was here
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49:29 <Brunius> Avatar: Because that's per day
49:42 <Brunius> If the case gets pulled out, it could end up costing you more
50:04 <Brunius> and that is cash that could be spent on armour
52:39 <Steven> so brunius hows you doin
11:33 tashphones ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
35:17 <Avatar> Steven: I picked up ultimate equipment today
35:22 <Avatar> good rec
39:07 <Steven> its a damn fine book
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09:59 <Mekkis> Avatar, send it here then :S
10:10 <Mekkis> I'll be picking it up when I see it at the FLGS
10:19 <Mekkis> (I worry about not giving them enough cash)
10:56 <Avatar> no I bought it
11:13 <Mekkis> wtf
11:23 <Mekkis> chkdsk just deleted about 2.4TB of data
11:28 <Mekkis> this is why I don't trust windows
13:20 <Avatar> why were you running chkdsk
13:26 <Avatar> it's kind of 15 years out of date
18:09 <Mekkis> Avatar`, it's actually the tool windows uses to check ntfs disks
05:45 <Brunius> More importantly, WHY did it delete the data?
07:37 <Mekkis> because it thought that the table was corrupt
08:01 <Brunius> what, so it just deleted it
08:14 <Mekkis> yeah
08:20 <Brunius> Fucking windows man
10:20 <Ballig> was the table corrupt
21:58 <Avatar> mekkis
22:09 <Avatar> Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels
22:09 <Avatar> Bloodlines: martyred bloodline is legal for Pathfinder Society but the bonus feat Leadership remains unavailable; Heritages: all heritages, and associated traits, on pages 21–23 are legal; Feats: all feats on pages 24–25 are legal except Supernal Feast; Magic: bard masterpieces are legal; Other: variant assimar abilities are not legal for Pathfinder Society; 
22:36 <Avatar> (there's more listed for blood of angels, but that last bit is the important bit)
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00:59 <Mekkis>           Avatar they're not variant aasimar abilities
05:20 <Avatar> oh, that's p18
05:23 <Avatar> p20+ are heritages
05:45 <Avatar> wait is it a heritage
23:59 <Mekkis> did you pirate that book Avatar?
24:14 <Mekkis> by visiting something like magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b194de44dcd24f1cbcac8eed6a096fcaccebcb9a&dn=Pathfinder+RPG+-+Blood+of+Angels&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.istole.it%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80
25:10 <Avatar> I pirated blood of angels
21:08 Mort- ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
29:18 <Avatar> :o)
29:23 <Avatar> hey it's mort
29:32 <Avatar> hello mort
31:52 * Mort- gets ready to poof in a puff of smoke
36:29 <Avatar> what
01:03 <Avatar> hello mort
10:34 * Mort- looks at avatar. Gets nervous. And poofs!
10:37 Mort- has quit (Quit: Bye)
10:45 <Avatar> well that's rude
11:00 <Ballig> told you
11:18 <Avatar> doesn't seem appropriate
11:42 <Ballig> it's definitely mort though
12:11 <Avatar> it's definitely mort
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59:46 <Mekkis> a mort?
18:18 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
18:35 <Steven> Rawr!!!!!!!!!!
18:42 <Steven> Rockasaurus Rex!
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18:26 <Avatar-> my archaeologist is amazing
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55:08 <Diazane> My horse is amazing.
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24:40 <Mekkis> Avatar, any problem with me bringing Grolschmir next Sunday?
31:14 <Mekkis> Diazane, could you receive a laptop for me and ship it to Australia?
34:41 <Brunius> Diazine, could you receive four booster boxes for me and ship them to Australia?
35:11 <Mekkis> Brunius, how much would you pay for two boxes of Future Sight?
35:36 <Brunius> Wow
36:39 <Brunius> 300ish?
36:49 <Mekkis> shipped?
36:52 <Mekkis> from the states?
36:53 <Mekkis> each?
37:00 <Brunius> In a purely hypothetical situation where I had the cash
41:33 <Brunius> I'm being told 310 for two ( + shipping) is a fair price
42:13 <Mekkis> who told you that?
42:20 <Brunius> A friend.
42:22 <Mekkis> hell, I'd pay that
42:36 <Mekkis> and you know how often I buy boxes
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17:08 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Sat 8th 10am (Mekkis,level 1 module) / Sun 9th 9am (Avatar,tier 5-9) || All topic times are AEST (UTC+10:00); set up your timezone on the site for local times! | D&D and Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
17:09 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Fri Aug 31 23:31:16 2012
17:16 <***> Buffer Playback...
17:16 <***> Playback Complete.
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20:17 <Avatar-> yo
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23:13 <Ballig> yo
24:08 <Avatar-> everyone died
24:40 <Ballig> which character
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29:26 <Avatar> :o)
29:32 <Avatar> hey it's mort
29:40 <Avatar> hello mort
29:43 <Ballig> which character
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32:00 * Mort- gets ready to poof in a puff of smoke
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36:37 <Avatar> what
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42:40 <spider21b> i heard there is a new game coming up i dont know what time it is in pst
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43:59 <Ballig> haha pst
44:16 <Brunius> What's that, like -7
44:37 <Ballig> I thought he meant "pst" as in "please send tell" - the terminology they use over global channels in MMORPGs
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53:21 <Avatar> please send tell
53:30 <Avatar> I was using James
53:36 <Ballig> who's James
53:45 <Avatar> my archaeologist/mysterious stranger
53:49 <Ballig> oh
53:50 <Ballig> the one you liked playing
53:54 <Avatar> yeah my favourite
53:59 <Avatar> he couldn't save the others
54:03 <Ballig> time to make another archaeologist
54:07 <Ballig> oh, you lived?
54:09 <Avatar> yeah
54:13 <Avatar> the other 4 died
55:14 <Ballig> did you get them killed
55:58 <Avatar> no
56:02 <Avatar> we made a lot of mistakes
56:05 <Avatar> some unavoidable
56:31 <Avatar> the irony is we could've escaped earlier but we decided to unravel the real mystery so we kept going
56:57 <Avatar> we all finished our faction missions and we got the main mission done
57:18 <Ballig> and died afterwards? :O
57:23 <Avatar> yeah
57:29 <Avatar> one guy was 1 prestige away from being able to raise dead
58:27 <Ballig> how many raise deads did you pay for
58:42 <Avatar> 0
59:01 <Avatar> we couldn't afford 1 raise dead between us
59:09 <Avatar> there was one guy there who has played 4 scenarios and 2 of them were TPK's
59:22 <Avatar> er, including this one which wasn't really
59:26 <Avatar> but he still died
59:45 <Ballig> sounds like he was bad luck
59:57 <Avatar> he's new to the game
00:03 <Avatar> played wizards, not very well
00:16 <Avatar> he didn't know his spells worked today
00:27 <Avatar> like magic missile
01:03 <Ballig> he played 4 games and didn't know how his spells worked?
01:12 <Avatar> hello mort
01:51 <Avatar> he struggled a lot 
02:05 <Avatar> didn't know magic missile was an auto hit, didn't know what dice to roll for 1d3 ray of frost
02:12 <Avatar> didn't have a ranged weapon on this character, only a longsword
02:31 <Avatar> didn't understand how preparing spells worked
02:54 <Avatar> he likes magic but likes hitting stuff
02:57 <Ballig> not having a ranged weapon is understandable, people who are new to the game don't necessarily realise they'll need non-resource attacks
03:05 <Avatar> I said umm you could roll a magus but that could be tricky
03:17 <Avatar> witch is pretty clever
03:19 <Diazane> New people make mistakes.
03:34 <Avatar> yeah but he made more mistakes than you'd think someone would make after 4 games
03:52 <Ballig> not knowing how to prepare spells seems pretty bad for having played 4 games
03:53 <Diazane> Not everybody can be smarter than the average bear.
03:53 <Avatar> I tried to explain stuff to him on the fly
04:28 <Ballig> the average bear is pretty dumb
04:30 <Diazane> And some folk just don't really learn, nomatter what you do.
04:53 <Avatar> he wasn't thick, it was just that I don't think he really had time to let it sink in properly
05:08 <Ballig> the people he played with in previous games also might not have bothered to teach him anything
05:21 <Avatar> it was usually happening during combat, and after combat we had to keep the game moving along
05:35 <Avatar> well it sounded like darkwhite had played with him each time
05:42 <Avatar> and I am pretty sure he would have explained what he could
10:43 * Mort- looks at avatar. Gets nervous. And poofs!
10:53 <Avatar> well that's rude
11:09 <Ballig> told you
11:27 <Avatar> doesn't seem appropriate
11:50 <Ballig> it's definitely mort though
12:20 <Avatar> it's definitely mort
14:34 <Avatar> I still can't believe that game
15:09 <Ballig> sounds like you got off scott free
15:14 <Ballig> full credit, no death
15:15 <Avatar> I only pulled back to begin with to heal myself, we had two guys on opposite ends of the map trying to stay on their feet
15:20 <Avatar> I did get off scot free
15:20 <Ballig> should've walked off with explosions in the background
15:26 <Avatar> I DID
15:28 <Avatar> they chased me
15:39 <Avatar> I outran them
15:44 <Avatar> it was like an indiana jones movie
16:23 <Avatar> the 5 of us were split up in 3 different sections of the map
17:13 <Avatar> the GM rolled three 20's in a row at one point
17:22 <Ballig> yuck
17:32 <Avatar> and then max damage on the two damage dice
19:06 <Avatar> I thought maybe there was a chance I could get to the other side of the map to heal one or two of them, but then the fourth guy in our party dropped and it was just me left
19:12 <Avatar> and I was on half health
19:19 <Ballig> so you let them die
19:23 <Avatar> yeah
19:28 <Avatar> not an easy decision, let me tell you
19:31 <Ballig> you killed them !
19:41 <Avatar> it wasn't my fault :(
20:29 <Avatar> even the gun wasn't helping
20:35 <Avatar> I mean when the gun isn't working, you know you are in trouble
21:55 <Ballig> so you kill your party and run
23:20 <Avatar> I didn't want to :(
23:37 <Ballig> you probably planned it
23:39 <Avatar> I wanted to try save them 
23:45 <Ballig> I bet you talked them into continuing to unravel the mystery after everything was finished
23:47 <Ballig> just so you could kill them
24:00 <Avatar> no, that was John's idea
24:05 <Avatar> he is very persuasive
24:09 <Avatar> we are pathfinders after all
24:14 <Avatar> so it was an easy argument
24:24 <Avatar> an argument that would later get them killed
24:28 <Avatar> almost everyone last one of us 
24:37 <Ballig> by you
24:41 <Avatar> not by me
25:33 <Avatar> my grit wasn't working, my gun wasn't working, my spells weren't working, my meteor hammer was no help
25:39 <Avatar> we had a fairly shitty party makeup
25:52 <Avatar> monk, cleric, oracle, wizard, bard/gunslinger
26:12 <Ballig> all pretty easily killed
27:31 <Avatar> the cleric was the last one to drop
28:22 <Avatar> the problem was the scenario ended up being harder than it was supposed to be
28:26 <Ballig> was the cleric healing/channeling
28:27 <Avatar> because - get this - we were too good at what we did
28:53 <Avatar> yeah but he had spent most of his channels and we needed him to do damage
29:02 <Avatar> he doubled as one of the tanks in the party
29:09 <Avatar> alongside me and the monk
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35:46 <ShoeDoctor> lmaooooooooooooooooooooo @ Avatar
36:17 <Brunius> Subtle man
37:35 ChanOP gives channel operator status to Avatar
37:43 * Avatar sets ban on *!*@27.96.91D22A.668A49
37:44 Avatar has kicked ShoeDoctor from #d&d (go get analysed)
39:45 <Ballig> who was that
40:03 <Avatar> probably one of the guys I couldn't save
40:09 <Avatar> it wasn't my fault
42:07 <Ballig> is your archaeologist shadow lodge
42:31 <Avatar> no, qadira
42:34 <Ballig> oh
42:39 <Ballig> I was thinking maybe he was shadow lodge and it was a season 2 scenario
42:42 <Avatar> you think I am trying to take down the pathfinder society
42:45 <Ballig> so you were just roleplaying
42:49 <Ballig> and got them all killed for your faction
42:58 <Avatar> I didn't get them all killed
43:01 <Avatar> it could've been me 
43:34 <Ballig> but it wasn't
43:36 <Ballig> how convenient
46:00 <Avatar> you're a terrible person
48:49 <MekkisScreen> like Cairo did in BTD1
49:18 <Avatar> very unlike that
49:27 <Avatar> everyone else had already fallen
49:57 <MekkisScreen> qadirans are like that
50:25 <Avatar> what do qadirans do
54:24 <Avatar> recommend a feat
54:33 <Ballig> toughness
54:38 <Avatar> actually I think I had 5 to catch up on
54:57 <Ballig> 5 feats to catch up on?
55:08 <Avatar> I was going for a build that let me trip and improved trip was on the list
55:14 <Avatar> but I don't have combat expertise yet
07:29 <Avatar> fucking combat expertise
14:04 <N2H4> This changes the validity of my statement by not a single quanta.
14:04 <Ballig> it's 6 degrees here :p
14:17 <Brunius> Do you have heating?
14:38 <Ballig> do I look like a chump
14:54 <Brunius> do you feel like answering my question
15:05 <Avatar> you look like a chump to me
15:08 <Ballig> I have a glorious reverse cycle air conditioner
15:36 <N2H4> I think you look like a chump too.
15:38 <Brunius> Is that a heater
16:01 <Ballig> yep
16:27 <Brunius> I currently have no heater
16:35 <Brunius> It broked
16:37 <Ballig> sux4u
16:52 <Ballig> still, 12 degrees isn't too bad if you dress for it
17:09 <Brunius> And how do I dress for it overlord
17:20 <Brunius> (I might mention it's only my fingertips that are complaining)
17:23 <Ballig> jumper, tracksuit pants, ugg boots, maybe gloves?
17:23 <Ballig> :p
17:36 <Ballig> gloves are a huge pain when typing though
17:38 <Ballig> fingerless gloves can work
17:50 <Brunius> I am wearing fingerless gloves
18:12 <N2H4> Do what I did in new york when my heating got knocked out by a blizzard.
18:25 <N2H4> Turn the stove on high and bask infront of it.
18:31 <Ballig> ha
19:02 <N2H4> And you guys aren't even snow cold.
19:22 <Avatar> I don't understand fingerless gloves
19:31 <Avatar> don't your fingertips get cold
19:40 <Avatar> that is the coldest part of your hand
20:01 <Brunius> N2H4: It's probably colder here than it is where Avatar is
20:17 <Avatar> yeah it is warmer here than anywhere else that doesn't have a heater
20:19 <N2H4> Is it at 0c or less?
20:36 <Brunius> checking, but considering the pool hasn't frozen, I'm going to guess no
21:02 <N2H4> Thats understandable if it just got there. Takes a while to chill a whole pool.
21:11 <Brunius> 6.2 degrees
22:51 <Brunius> It's snowed here twice in the last 5-6 years (and each time it was a "once in a lifetime event"), so it's got the potential to get below 0
23:01 <Brunius> But I don't think it will today
23:11 <N2H4> Snow can be fun. For a little quite.
23:20 <N2H4> Then its just this cold, wet, mess outside.
23:23 <Avatar> what race gets two favoured classes
23:24 <Ballig> it's been below 0 here evey day for the last week
23:27 <Ballig> it snowed here a week ago
23:38 <N2H4> How much?
23:46 <Ballig> not heavy, and only in a few suburbs
23:48 <Avatar> half elves
23:50 <Ballig> it's not a common occurrence
23:54 <Brunius> Was it in Woden
23:58 <Ballig> I wish, that's where I live
24:01 <Ballig> it was in Belconnen and the city
24:06 <Brunius> Ah
24:14 <Ballig> might've snowed near where those people live who you are related to
24:24 <Brunius> They live in Pearce
24:27 <Ballig> oh
24:32 <Ballig> I thought they were in somewhere starting with S
24:56 <Brunius> My godparents live in somewhere starting with an S
25:11 <Brunius> Can't remember the exact name
25:16 <Brunius> Some PM, I thin
25:17 <Brunius> k
25:27 <Ballig> scullin
25:39 <Brunius> Yeah, that's it
25:49 <Ballig> yeah that's right next to belconnen, it might've snowed there
25:53 <Ballig> I live in Pearce
26:35 <N2H4> I live in Florida. Where we have rain on a regular basis. And even winter's a perfectly fine time to grow tomatoes.
26:46 <Brunius> pfft
26:56 <Brunius> didn't you just get hurricaned or something
27:03 <N2H4> Nah, it missed.
27:11 <N2H4> Rained for like 2 days straight though.
30:01 <N2H4> It wasn't even a hurricane when it swung by here, just a tropical storm.
33:13 <Avatar> point blank shot, no brainer
40:37 <Avatar> aren't all the suburbs in canberra named after PM's
41:03 <Mekkis> wow
41:17 <Mekkis>    Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human
41:17 <Mekkis> aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar
41:17 <Mekkis> is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and
41:17 <Mekkis> abilities as a human aasimar-the difference is purely
41:17 <Mekkis> cosmetic.
41:28 <Mekkis> a small race without a strength penalty!
41:30 <Mekkis> sign me up!
43:58 <Ballig> what about precise shot
44:13 <Avatar> where's that from
44:14 <Avatar> well
44:18 <Avatar> maybe if I already had point blank
44:21 <Avatar> I would take precise shot
44:25 <Avatar> good suggestion though
47:17 <Mekkis> Blood of angels
47:39 <Ballig> take them both
47:52 <Avatar> I only get one choice
47:58 <Avatar> it's a 3rd level feat
48:00 <Avatar> how do I take both
48:13 <Ballig> take your third level as fighter
48:18 <Avatar> HA
48:23 * Mekkis anticipates an influx of halfling-aasimar cavaliers
48:27 <Ballig> yeah, yuo didn't think I'd have an answer did you
48:30 <Ballig> but I did have an answer
48:49 <Avatar> I don't think I will take my 3rd level as fighter
48:57 <Mekkis> hmmm
49:01 <Ballig> what are you taking it as instead
49:01 <Avatar> that would work mechanically, but it would sort of hurt my concept
49:12 <Avatar> upgrading archaeologist
49:18 <Ballig> with gunslinger or bard?
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49:25 <Avatar> bard/archaeologist
49:31 <Mekkis> one could argue that since aasimar is legal for play, they can play a Storm Giant aasimar, and begin play Huge
49:32 <Avatar> I doubt I will put any more levels into gunslinger
49:34 <Ballig> what do you get by taking a level of bard
49:36 <Avatar> I just needed a gun
49:48 <Avatar> bard is the core of the character
49:54 <Avatar> I get umm
49:55 <Ballig> yeah what do you get for taking a level of it right now
50:00 <Avatar> uncanny dodge and
50:08 <Ballig> you get uncanny dodge from level 2 bard?
50:11 <Avatar> clever explorer, which lets me add half my level to disable device and perception
50:15 <Avatar> yeah
50:19 <Avatar> level 2 archaeologist
50:24 <Ballig> it's a bard
50:24 <Avatar> I don't get the usual level 2 bard stuff
50:27 <Ballig> even if you call it an archaeologist
50:36 <Avatar> well it's an archaeologist
50:43 <Ballig> it's a bard with archaeologist archetype
50:48 <Avatar> yeah
51:25 <Avatar> try that
52:14 <Mekkis> (FYI, if anyone wants to bring a newly-created storm-giant aasimar to the table next Saturday, They Are Welcome To!
52:21 <Mekkis> )
53:00 <Avatar> we should all do that
53:06 <Mekkis> be my guest
53:21 <Avatar> storm giant aasimar is in blood of angels?
53:23 <Mekkis> the worst that will happen is that you'll need to do a full rebuild
53:38 <Mekkis> you use the aasimar stats and the storm giant size
53:43 <Mekkis> that's it
54:06 <Mekkis> it's another reason Rogue should be an NPC class
54:21 <Avatar> is there a colossal sized aasimar
54:33 <Mekkis> don't think so
54:41 <Avatar> where did you get storm giant
54:42 <Avatar> why
54:55 <Mekkis> are there any colossal sized humanoids or monsterous humanoids?
55:04 <Avatar> no idea
55:33 <Mekkis> because the bard does everything it does, but better; and the situations where it shines are generally GM-contrived.
56:00 <Avatar> this is an archetype, the bard doesn't get it
56:09 <Ballig> wouldn't you be better off suggesting ways to make the rogue a better playable class instead of insisting it should be made an NPC class
56:18 <Avatar> and if I had to choose between level 2 rogue evasion and level 2 bard archaeologist, I know which I'd pick
56:28 <Ballig> I think the rogue DOES shine outside of combat
56:51 <Mekkis> so does the bard
56:53 <Mekkis> and the fighter
56:55 <Mekkis> and the monk
56:58 <Mekkis> and the paladin
57:01 <Mekkis> and the wizard
57:04 <Mekkis> and the barbarian
57:07 <Mekkis> and the summoner
57:08 <Ballig> I don't agree with you
57:10 <Ballig> so you can stop spamming
57:25 <Avatar> mekkis you spammer
57:48 <Mekkis> more to the point, there's nothing wrong with shining outside of combat
57:56 <Mekkis> there is a problem with completely failing in combat
58:19 <Ballig> the reason that rogues don't get a chance to shine outside of combat so often is because the things they shine at need to be written into a pre-written campaign/scenario, and most authors don't want to assume the party will have a rogue
58:21 <Ballig> so they don't write many of them in
58:38 <Ballig> and yes, I think that the rogue should have some better in-combat abilities, or at least not be crippled so badly on the abilities they have
58:52 <Ballig> but it's better to say "I think the rogue's combat ability should be reviewed" instead of "I think the rogue should be an NPC class, just scrap it!"
59:30 <Avatar> does anyone have a pdf of ultimate equipment
59:40 <Mekkis> yes
59:55 <Avatar> does it have your name on it
00:18 <Avatar> I want to preview it before I buy it but I can't find it
00:26 <Mekkis> no
00:33 <Avatar> send it this way
00:39 <Mekkis> no
00:45 <Avatar> why not
01:08 <Mekkis> I'm not sure if it's possible to change the combat ability without making it obscenely powerful in the situations that an NPC rogue can find themselves in
01:15 <Mekkis> because it's not mine
01:32 <Mekkis> and I don't have it
01:45 <Avatar> you just said you did
01:48 <Mekkis> no
01:49 <Avatar> and that it wasn't !
01:52 <Mekkis> I said someone did
01:55 <Ballig> revise sneak attack so that it's not so much damage but it's possible to do it more often
02:00 <Avatar> cmon
02:05 <Mekkis> my local VC does. It has his name on it
02:27 <Avatar> steven said it was essential
02:30 <Avatar> but that's steven
02:37 <Avatar> I think you're just not playing rogue right
02:41 <Mekkis> but it isn't enough damage
02:51 <Ballig> I think it is enough damage when you can do it more often
03:53 <Ballig> keeping in mind that you can't compare all melee damage to a twinked-out two-handed fighter or lance charger
04:07 <Avatar> I will just get it
04:09 <Mekkis> my local VC isn't Steven any more!
04:40 <Mekkis> Avatar, will you be DMing at unicon?
04:41 <Avatar> not darkwhite
04:49 <Avatar> unlikely
04:53 <Avatar> only if i'm asked to
04:59 <Mekkis> I think I'll offer to
05:09 <Mekkis> I feel bad about not DMing at conquest
05:11 <Avatar> I don't like GMing in person much
05:40 <Avatar> I don't feel guilty because I contribute to the community by GMing online a lot
05:41 <Avatar> ahhhh the real problem comes out
05:49 <Avatar> you don't like rogues because you can't figure out how to overoptimise them
06:09 <Avatar> so much so do you not like rogues that you don't want to even have the OPTION to play them !
06:09 <Mekkis> that's not why I don't like rogues
06:14 <Avatar> so you want them to become NPCs
06:17 <Avatar> admit it
06:20 <Avatar> it all adds up now
07:27 <Mekkis> I don't like rogues because the rogue PCs I've encountered (often while DMing) tend to contribute very little during combat, act as a danger to both themselves and their party, and generally result in a less enjoyable play experience for everyone
08:08 <Avatar> because you don't know how to help them
08:16 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
08:18 <Avatar> don't be classist
08:29 <Avatar> it's the same thing, except in third person
08:32 <Mekkis> don't know how to help them?
08:43 <Avatar> you don't like other rogues because you can't figure out what to recommend them
08:57 <Avatar> so much so that you wish they were NPCs instead of players that could just die !!
10:01 <Mekkis> Ballig, I figure that if a rogue is working very hard to achieve a sneak attack on an enemy, the damage that that attack does should be more than that of a 16-str fighter with power attack and level appropriate gear
10:26 <Ballig> I'm not saying that they're great in combat, I'm saying that they can be improved
10:33 <Ballig> and one of those ways is to make it so that they don't HAVE to work so hard for a sneak attack
13:42 <Mekkis> I also can't see very many reasons to justify it existing as a playable class
14:21 <Ballig> how about the fact that rogues are an archetypal roleplaying class
15:07 <Avatar> a cursory glance at this book shows it to be impressive
15:20 <Avatar> I think when you get past the fact that they aren't just combat engineers you will start to like the rogue more
15:31 <Avatar> the entire argument always ignores that
15:45 <Avatar> when you put it into perspective, it's really nowhere near as bad as you're talking about
15:52 <Mekkis> what do you mean
16:15 <Avatar> rogues have skills and lots of class skills and good class abilities
17:02 <Mekkis> everyone has skills. Class skills are hardly meaningful. What class abilities are "good"?
17:24 <Ballig> having a lot of skill points and class skills is meaningful
17:26 <Ballig> you can't just dismiss it
18:12 <Avatar> if you don't like evasion, give your rogue armor proficiency and a suit of armor
19:44 <Mekkis> having lots of class skills justifies the rogue. As far as taking one level in it
20:12 <Ballig> if you're trying to distill everything to a "what gives me the most powerful character?" then sure, that's all class levels mean for the rogue
20:28 <Ballig> but you can't dismiss the whole setup of large number of skill points + large number of class skills
20:48 <Ballig> it's like saying that heavy armour proficiency means nothing for a fighter
20:53 <Ballig> and only justifies taking a single level in it
21:06 <Avatar> two levels in it, I suppose
21:10 <Avatar> for class skills
21:17 <Mekkis> what else do rogues have that justify taking more than one or two levels of rogue?
21:19 <Avatar> that was nerfed with the new skill system
21:41 <Mekkis> Fighters continually get bonus feats, and useful weapon and armour training
21:53 <Ballig> I'm not saying the class skills justify multiple levels man
21:57 <Ballig> I'm just saying you can't dismiss it
22:05 <Avatar> rogues get continual sneak attack man
22:06 <Ballig> in the same way you can't dismiss the fighter's weapon and armour proficiencies
22:23 <Avatar> and more rogue talents
22:27 <Ballig> the rogue is very skill-focused, and very useful outside of combat because of that
22:59 <Ballig> I realise you're very focused on combat damage, and it makes it hard for you to see benefits to a class that can't do large amounts of damage in combat
23:14 <Ballig> but you can't insist that entire classes are useless because they don't do two-handed weapon fighter with power attack damage
24:30 <Avatar> wtf, prosthetic
24:53 <Mekkis> I can see the benefits to other classes that don't do large amounts of damage in combat: clerics, bards, witches...
25:21 <Mekkis> the fact is, all of those classes can still Meaningfully Contribute to combat.
25:27 <Ballig> just happens that they are all spellcasters
25:29 <Mekkis> the rogue, as far as I've seen, doesn't
25:43 <Ballig> yeah, and I've already said that the rogue ability to do damage in combat should be reviewed
25:50 <Ballig> that doesn't mean the entire class should be scrapped
25:54 <Avatar> I don't know man
26:08 <Avatar> when a rogue is flanking doing +xd6 damage repeatedly with multiple attacks
26:15 <Avatar> I don't think you can say he's doing nothing
26:17 <Mekkis> ...
26:28 <Mekkis> after ending his turn adjacent to the enemy...
26:35 <Avatar> the enemy is dead
26:36 <Ballig> Avatar: your biggest issue there is that to set up a sneak attack requires too much effort/is too circumstantial
26:48 <Avatar> the rogue has to learn to work his circumstances to his advantage
26:53 <Ballig> I think the sneak attack would work better if it didn't do as much damage but was easier to set up
26:54 <Mekkis> Avatar, how can a flanking rogue full-attack an enemy?
26:56 <Avatar> the class is all about the mindgame
27:08 <Avatar> invisibility
27:13 <Avatar> stealth
27:33 <Mekkis> stealth doesn't work. Invisibility requires Someone Else to cast it
27:45 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure we've all seen stealth work
28:07 <Avatar> invisibility requiring someone else to cast isn't the end of the world
28:12 <Avatar> a rogue talent lets him do it on his own
28:17 <Avatar> use magic device lets him do it on his own
29:00 <Mekkis> sure? wand of invisibility?
29:03 <Mekkis> 2250gp?
29:10 <Mekkis> hmmm
29:15 <Ballig> it's an option
29:28 <Ballig> I don't think invisibility is worth it, personally
29:31 <Ballig> even if someone is available to cast it
29:40 <Ballig> greater invis is, but very resource intensive
29:51 <Avatar> I think invis is a lifesaver
30:00 <Ballig> yeah but we aren't talking about "oh shit, let's go invis"
30:02 S711 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
30:04 <Ballig> we're talking about being able to set up sneak attacks with it
30:09 <Ballig> invis only gives you one sneak attack
30:29 <Avatar> a good lawyer only costs 10gp per day
30:30 <Avatar> it gets you into position to full attack
30:49 <Ballig> I think the point Mekkis was trying to make was that in order to full attack you have to end your turn adjacent to an enemy
30:55 <Mekkis> yeah
30:56 <Ballig> who can easily hit you next round
31:01 <Avatar> why pay 5 prestige to get you out of jail when you can pay 100gp for a team of lawyers
31:06 <Mekkis> or play Some Form of Barbarian with pounce
31:08 <Avatar> he asked how do you full attack
31:13 <Mekkis> or Some Form of Synthesist
31:16 <Ballig> yeah, he was trying to set you up
31:26 <Avatar> ah but there was a counter-setup
31:31 <Avatar> it backfired if you will
31:45 <Avatar> like 5 men going into combat thinking they will save the day
31:52 <Avatar> with only 1 being able to escape with his life
32:17 <Avatar> cue indiana jones theme
32:24 <Ballig> because he cleverly planned to get everyone else killed
32:29 <Ballig> for he secretly works for... The Shadow Lodge!
32:35 <Avatar> no that wasn't part of the plan at all
32:39 <Avatar> he wanted to SAVE those people!
32:46 <Avatar> they were his friends!
32:46 <Mekkis> that's what they all say
50:07 <Avatar> oh uh
50:11 <Avatar> darkwhite didn't know anything about unico
50:11 <Avatar> n
50:17 <Mekkis> :o
50:22 <Avatar> there were looking into changing venues or something
50:24 <Mekkis> what do you mean?
50:38 <Avatar> he will set up pathfinder society now that he knows registrations are active
50:38 <Ballig> he's never heard of it before, unicon doesn't exist
50:40 <Ballig> dun dun DUNNNNN
50:55 <Avatar> he only just got internet access in his house apparently
50:59 <Mekkis> it's not on the list is it?
51:13 <Avatar> what's not
51:23 <Mekkis> Society
51:30 <Mekkis> as far as events you can register for
51:32 <Mekkis> or is it?
51:43 <Avatar> yeah it's not, that's why he has to set up pathfinder society now that he knows registrations are active
53:53 <Mekkis> did you go to Blackburn today?
54:31 <Avatar> yeah
54:36 <Avatar> that's where I barely escaped with my life !!
54:48 <Mekkis> what did you play?
55:06 <Avatar> I think I've given away a bit too much about what happened to reveal the scenario
55:21 <Mekkis> oh
55:25 <Mekkis> I wasn't paying attention
55:41 <Avatar> you missed out, it was quite a story
55:59 <Mekkis> I was buying my father dinner
56:21 <Avatar> scroll up, it's still there
56:55 <Mekkis> or I could log onto warhorn, read the scenario name, and ignore everything up there
57:16 <Avatar> it's more exciting the other way around
57:24 <Avatar> the scenario itself is irrelevant to the experience
57:58 <Mekkis> season 3 or season 4?
58:05 <Mekkis> I've played the season 3 one
58:14 <Avatar> perhaps it was one of them
59:55 <Mekkis> a mort?
18:43 <Steven> Rawr!!!!!!!!!!
18:50 <Steven> Rockasaurus Rex!
30:15 <Diazane> I have a message to leave the dawn; just as the torment is ending. I am the eagle that lingers on; I am the violence descending.
36:36 <Ballig> "I am the terror that casts magic missile in the night. I am the 5 gold discount you will never receive. I am.. Blastacadabra!"
15:02 <MekkisScreen> stupid netssplits
15:14 <MekkisScreen> nassty netssplitssess
18:34 <Avatar-> my archaeologist is amazing
28:05 wrothmonk ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
30:13 Sachiru ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
51:04 <diebot> Sheets updated: Deceased (285)
55:17 <Diazane> My horse is amazing.
56:11 <diebot> test
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