// #eevblog — 2021-07-21
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00:01:06 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - RT @talldarknweirdo: Lots of the Apollo hardware looked every inch the masterpieces of engineering which they were, but I will forever ❤️ t…
00:22:10 Join: TheDude ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:53:37 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:01:53 <Kuschelpony> good ev en ing
02:01:59 <Kuschelpony> good evening
02:12:52 <K> acceptable.
02:14:17 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:35:59 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
03:28:05 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:29:29 <arch> T3sl4, have you tried making a planar trafo out of copperclads yet? i was thinking if it's feasible to stack a bunch of really thin, single sided copperclads on top of each other, pre-carved and loops routed, to make it into a high current, high freq, planar trafo core (if you sandwich it between two E cores for example)
03:30:04 <arch> i would imagine the intrawinding capacitance should be really small, since the thinnest copperclads you can get are 0.4mm usually
03:31:11 <arch> you get what i mean right? like, if you could carve the copperclad, and carve the tracks (or easier, etch the looped tracks), and place the pcb inside E core sandwich
03:33:02 <arch> EXACTLY like this, bingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planar_transformer#/media/File:Planar_Transformer.jpg
03:33:03 <EEVBot> [Title] - Planar transformer - Wikipedia
03:33:12 <hsn> just thought of sharing
03:33:13 <hsn> https://youtu.be/aKHVnvl5ng8
03:34:04 <hsn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Adha ^
03:34:05 <EEVBot> [Title] - Eid al-Adha - Wikipedia
03:34:55 <arch> i need to try that construction method out next time i build a smps. i have plenty of E cores, both gapped and ungapped
03:35:56 <arch> i imagine the leakage inductance should be greatly reduced if you stack them so that they are interleaved
03:36:06 <arch> for flybacks, should be really good performance
03:36:17 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:37:01 <hsn> so i've put 2 aluminum foils with known equal area between "notebook paper" .. put the numbers to see if capacitance thing happen .. it didnt :)
03:37:22 <Kuschelpony> hmm?
03:38:05 <hsn> although i dont know the permitivity of the paper .. so i did modify it until it matched the measured capacitance ..
03:38:38 <hsn> then increased the papers between the foils .. from 1 paper to 4 .. put the new distance .. it doesnt match :)
03:41:07 <Ampera> good morning friends
03:41:09 <Ampera> I love you all
03:41:41 <DHess_US> Need to tightly press the layers together, and common paper has clay in it.
03:41:46 <Kuschelpony> hsn, i assume you missed two deatals
03:41:58 <Kuschelpony> the one is the capacity of the outside of the foils
03:42:25 <Kuschelpony> so stack three foils, with the "hot" in between the two greounded, to have no stray capacitance outside
03:42:29 <arch> you can actually see that two-layer copperclad PCBs that are larger have a noticeable capacitance if you probe with multimeter
03:42:45 <Kuschelpony> and second put that under huge weight to squeeze out the air
03:43:52 <arch> i just probed a two sided copperclad with dimentions of ~6 in x 2in and it has 1nF capacitance
03:43:54 <hsn> oh i did press but not too much
03:44:34 <hsn> Kuschelpony, capacitance outside the foils i assume is "negligble"
03:44:53 <hsn> specially that i bended the foile and measuring from some distance
03:46:05 <Kuschelpony> i have a different suspiucion
03:48:42 <hsn> i think i did mistake in calculation
03:48:46 <hsn> im going to re do it
03:51:32 <hsn> i cannot use : https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/VashtiPrasad.shtml < 3.7 right ?
03:51:32 <EEVBot> [Title] - Dielectric Strength of Paper - The Physics Factbook
03:51:39 <arch> what are the potential downsides if i get a bigass ferrite core, but i only use a few turns of wire and there is 90% space unoccupied for the core?
03:51:46 <hsn> because i dont know my notebook paper dielectric
03:52:09 <arch> other than a waste of money
03:52:19 <arch> does having a bigger core than needed increase leakage inductance?
03:52:46 <hsn> it looks like u will have better "saturation" no ?
03:53:12 <hsn> like your core shouldnt saturate like when its small core ?
03:53:17 <arch> iirc, b_sat is dependent on number of turns and the cross sectional area of the core
03:53:38 <arch> i believe so hsn
03:53:56 <hsn> thats not down side though
03:54:14 <arch> but let's imagine this: i just need a wimpy 5W flyback, which can easily be provided by a E13/7/4 core. imagine i used ETD34 core instead, i would have a crapton of space in the core
03:54:16 <Kuschelpony> B is calculated either by the voltage * time / core square section
03:54:34 <Kuschelpony> arch, you just underuse the core
03:54:39 <Kuschelpony> works perfectly
03:54:42 <Kuschelpony> B is calculated either by the voltage * time / core square section
03:54:55 <arch> ahh thanks for the correction Kuschelpony
03:55:03 <Kuschelpony> or B is calculated by Ampere * Turns / length of airgap
03:56:08 <Kuschelpony> its interesting to note, that when you calculate B by voltage drive, the airgap doies not matter for B(classic transformer)
03:56:21 <arch> so technically, the only downside is just underutilization of the core. what about leakage inductance? would it be worse, same, or better? i would imagine less, because i can use fewer turns
03:57:10 <arch> ah another issue i can think off: what if all my windings are towards the bottom or top of the trafo core, instead of spread evenly throughout? that would increase flux fringing losses no?
03:57:11 <Kuschelpony> leakage inductance is independ of core
03:57:55 <Kuschelpony> leakage inductance is by definition whats leaking out between the windings and the patzh is primarily thorough air 8unless you explicitly made a stray treansformer)
03:58:13 <Kuschelpony> so its a function of winding seperation and length
03:58:13 <hsn> i modified the K of paper to be 2
03:58:18 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/VoLufZ.jpg
03:58:19 <arch> i want to try this out so badly. need to see how a planar flyback built on DIY copperclad performs
03:58:41 <hsn> https://snipboard.io/siM6xv.jpg
03:58:48 <hsn> with 4 papers .. with 1 paper
03:59:20 <Kuschelpony> i have no idea, tell me please when you did
03:59:33 <Kuschelpony> for something different, in three days i visit Berlin
04:00:42 <arch> visit germany...before germany visits you
04:04:56 <arch> page 13: https://www.coilcraft.com/getmedia/6c2eb4d5-d105-4402-8cab-b4363cc45703/PlanarKitManual.pdf
04:10:34 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:35:41 Quit: Beni2 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:55:41 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:58:22 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XK5-n4rR7Q
04:58:23 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Basshunter - Boten Anna (Official Video)
05:05:35 * T3sl4 ESD zaps arch
05:05:44 <arch> :3
05:05:54 * Ampera hugs T3sl4 with an octopus
05:06:54 <Ampera> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/446784883633684491/867038049593458708/20210720_093741.jpg
05:07:00 <Ampera> Got a new work machine
05:07:18 <rust_collector> eh, a pee series...
05:07:25 <Ampera> It's got a i7-10510U (quad core comet lake) 1TB NVMe SSD, 32GB of RAM, and it even has a quadro in it
05:07:41 <T3sl4> i hate that HOME/END shit are way the hell up there
05:07:42 <Ampera> It's better than the dual core ultrabook they've been making me use
05:07:50 <arch> Ampera, whyd you hide the pornhub shortcut
05:08:01 <Ampera> arch, pornhub is dumb
05:08:07 <Ampera> doesn't have anything good on it
05:08:13 <arch> ok whatever, tentacle hentai shortcut
05:08:22 <T3sl4> at least it has trackpad buttons, the one i borrow from work is the whole-pad-clicks kind :/
05:08:23 <Ampera> The main thing that's annoying me about that laptop's keyboard is the fn on the absolute bottom left
05:08:33 <Ampera> I actually prefer the whole pad clicks kind
05:08:41 <Ampera> or, at the very least, trackpad buttons at the bottom of the pad
05:08:42 <T3sl4> oh, and the fn/ctrl swap is balls, too
05:08:54 <Ampera> the top is an interesting place to put it, but meh
05:09:04 <Ampera> actually, the whole thing clicks too
05:09:09 <Ampera> so no big deal
05:09:31 <T3sl4> pure clickpads are almost impossible to right click or drag with, or let alone if you need multiple buttons
05:09:35 <Ampera> arch, the shortcut I hid may or may not have been able to identify where I work
05:09:45 <Ampera> I rarely need multiple buttons
05:10:09 <Ampera> though one annoying thing is this thing has scroll gesture that works opposite to how it does on every other laptop I own
05:10:15 <arch> i knew it. you're a gay porn actor for pornhub, haha
05:10:19 <arch> jk
05:10:22 <Ampera> you two finger swipe down to scroll up
05:10:30 <Ampera> arch, I am not a porn actor.
05:10:42 <Ampera> What I do is all real
05:11:10 <arch> alllrighty then
05:11:24 <T3sl4> how... do you fuck up scrolling? that's been standard for literal decades
05:11:44 <Ampera> I don't know, maybe I can change it somewhere in the bloatware
05:11:49 <arch> why dont you swap the direction, through the synaptics software. it's installed by default on winddows
05:12:35 <Ampera> seems to be a windows setting
05:12:35 <DHess_US> Hmf, so even Thinkpads have horrid keyboards now.
05:12:38 <Ampera> because I don't fucking use windows
05:12:39 <Ampera> idk
05:12:46 <Ampera> yeah the keyboard is meh
05:12:51 <DHess_US> More like a not-work machine.
05:12:53 <Ampera> all keyboards are meh when you're used to actual mechanical switches
05:13:09 <Ampera> at home it'll be plugged into my monitor and USB switch
05:13:11 <DHess_US> No, some laptops of the past had good keyboards.
05:13:18 <Ampera> No they did, I know they did
05:13:21 <Ampera> I have a couple that are alright
05:13:29 <DHess_US> But there are not good chiclet keyboards no matter what switches are used.
05:13:30 <Ampera> but these days they're all flat and irritating to type on
05:14:08 <DHess_US> They aren't meant to type on. They are meant to look at.
05:14:54 <Ampera> they could have given me another shitty ultrabook
05:15:01 <Ampera> this thing's perfectly fine for work
05:15:38 <T3sl4> sit down a useless laptop at your open plan office table and get zero work done, it's the modern way
05:16:20 <Ampera> Excuse you? I work in only the finest of dismal dehumanizing cubicles
05:16:29 <Ampera> Do you know how expensive this specific color of beige was to find?
05:17:00 <T3sl4> i do. i understand it was blessed by the most highly paid team builder consultants
05:17:21 <Ampera> Fuck that, we're /agile/
05:17:24 <Ampera> we do things our own way
05:17:27 <Ampera> in the way we want to do
05:17:33 <Ampera> and as agile as we want it to be
05:17:43 <Ampera> agile. agile. agile. agile.
05:17:45 * Ampera salutes to agile
05:18:31 <T3sl4> get scrummed
05:18:40 <Ampera> in other news the AQI here is 161
05:19:08 <Ampera> the west coast needs to stop bursting into flames
05:19:11 <Ampera> it's getting annoying
05:19:38 <arch> uh huh. yeah. i know some of these words
05:20:21 <DHess_US> Does Lenovo make any good laptops anymore?
05:20:24 <Ampera> no
05:20:27 <arch> https://i.imgflip.com/5h3k5y.jpg
05:20:30 <Ampera> never buying their garbage again
05:20:41 <Ampera> a year ago I bought one of their consumer grade ones and it's falling apart already
05:21:02 <Ampera> it has nasty plastic, deck flex so bad the screws wiggle out because 2 cents worth of loctite was more than the manufacturing budget allowed for
05:21:29 <Ampera> so now in a spot with a missing screw and a hinge the deck is cracked from the side to the keyboard
05:21:46 <Ampera> This isn't the first time I've had Lenovo gear that just had shit fit and finish
05:22:01 <Ampera> the only people who still buy their shit are people who wish thinkpads were still cool
05:22:31 <Ampera> this thinkpad is probably fine, in that if you throw enough business class money at anyone they'll give you something that doesn't disintegrate
05:22:48 <Ampera> but I should be able to pay 800 dollars and get a laptop that isn't falling apart only a year later
05:22:56 <Ampera> (oh, and has almost never left my bedside too)
05:23:04 <Ampera> </rant>
05:24:13 <T3sl4> give them a break, it's hard to make a laptop that's teletubby-resistant
05:26:08 <Ampera> looks like a few places in NY have an AQI as (estimated) bad as 300
05:26:25 <Ampera> so if I get cancer, this is why
05:26:50 <Ampera> smoke is dangerous, filter it through a cigarette
05:35:31 <arch> is it just me, or is anyone else hesitant to put their analog scope into retirement? i havent used mine seriously in 2 years, ever since getting my digital scope. it's taking up a lot of space on my workbench
05:35:39 <T3sl4> not great here either, ~60 aqi
05:35:41 <arch> but im gonna feel sad to put it in a box under my bed
05:36:06 <T3sl4> but not, y'know, apocalyptic obviously
05:37:05 <DHess_US> Obviously you bought the wrong analog oscilloscope because I still use mine.
05:37:26 <arch> mine doesnt have storage capability, so i cant one shot it
05:37:43 <arch> BK Precision 1540 40MHz
05:37:52 <DHess_US> Well, there's your problem. https://ibb.co/x8mRrtL
05:37:53 <EEVBot> [Title] - 4 — ImgBB
05:37:54 <Ampera> T3sl4, we seem ideally positioned to be shit on by this
05:38:11 <Ampera> I'm not sure, but it looks like the nastier stuff may be headed directly our way
05:38:14 <Ampera> so it could even get worse
05:38:27 <arch> DHess_US, i have almost that exact same Tek scope, but 60MHz
05:38:29 <T3sl4> lovely
05:38:39 <DHess_US> arch, but no storage capability?
05:38:45 <arch> correct, no storage capability either
05:38:51 <arch> let me find the model
05:38:54 <DHess_US> So that would be a 2213/22125?
05:38:58 <DHess_US> 2215?
05:38:59 <arch> it's out of calibration slightly
05:39:31 <arch> https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/2213
05:39:32 <EEVBot> [Title] - 2213 - TekWiki
05:39:33 <arch> i have the 2213A
05:39:38 <DHess_US> For the record, I don't really recommend getting a 2230/2232 because they are so old now.
05:40:30 <DHess_US> Trying to remember if the 2213A is older or newer than the scopes that I linked.
05:40:41 <arch> "It was updated to the 2213A in 1985."
05:40:59 <DHess_US> That is actually wrong.
05:41:10 <DHess_US> The 2213/2215 are a different series really.
05:41:26 <DHess_US> The 2213A/2215A are updates of the 100 MHz 2235
05:42:32 <DHess_US> It goes 2213/2215 in 1982, 2235/2236 in 1984 which are a different series, and then 2213A/2215A in 1985 which are based on the 2235.
05:42:48 <arch> all those scopes in that pic have storage capability?
05:42:53 <DHess_US> yes
05:43:12 <DHess_US> And then the scopes in that photo came out a year after the 2213A/2215A so they are newer, barely.
05:43:30 <arch> yeah also the ones with storage capability cost a lot
05:43:33 <DHess_US> Those were the first storage 22xx scopes.
05:43:49 <DHess_US> They did then, but not so much now.
05:44:00 <arch> not the digital ones. the analog ones off ebay, they do
05:44:04 <DHess_US> They have more things to break though.
05:44:32 <DHess_US> I have a pair of 2230s. One I bought for $80 and the other for $120
05:45:10 <DHess_US> I consider them the first DSOs worthy of the name because they support peak deteciton.
05:48:37 <DHess_US> The 2230 has a weird interface. The 2232 that replaced it has a "modern" DSO interface.
05:51:26 <arch> i ordered a 10x attenuator, 2x 50ohm terminators, and bnc-t-adapter, and will follow along to dave's tektronix calibration video
05:51:28 <arch> to fix my 2213A
05:51:41 <arch> the horizontal scaling is waaay off, and vertical just very slightly
05:51:59 <DHess_US> If it is that far off, then something is likely broken.
05:52:10 <arch> my function gen only goes up to 5MHz though, but whatever
05:52:13 <DHess_US> The adjustment range for calibration isn't that large.
05:52:33 <arch> i think it might just be the PSU and/or its caps
05:52:41 <arch> the PSU voltage affects everything
05:53:02 <arch> i do have a high voltage probe, those ones that look like deadly weapons to stab people with
05:53:22 <arch> 1V per 1kV probe
05:53:23 <rust_collector> they are
05:56:52 <DHess_US> Somewhere I have a photo showing the difference between the storage and non-storage displays.
05:59:42 <arch> do i really need a high freq signal gen to calibrate a scope?
05:59:46 <arch> analog scope
05:59:58 <arch> or is that a gimmick put in to sell their own fcn gens
06:00:12 <arch> in the service manuals, they all ask for 70MHz+ signal gens
06:02:02 Join: Guest69 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:05:21 <arch> bless this person. i needed the 2213A service manual: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tek2213a-service-manual/msg1620292/#msg1620292
06:05:23 <EEVBot> [Title] - TEK2213a Service Manual - Page 1
06:09:04 Quit: Guest69 ([email protected]) Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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06:22:47 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
06:43:30 <DHess_US> arch, no
06:43:48 <DHess_US> A higher frequency source is required to calibrate the linearity of the x10 function at the fastest sweep speeds.
06:44:41 <DHess_US> But you should be able to get by with just a 1 MHz source for basic calibration. It is unlikely that the higher sweep speeds require adjustment.
06:45:43 <DHess_US> arch, also, you can also use the 2215A service manual and ignore the delayed sweep parts.
06:51:36 <arch> i see
06:52:04 <arch> tonight i will start the calibration process. first i will check the power supply voltages. im gonna take things slow, since im not in a rush
06:57:36 <DHess_US> Unless something is broken, calibrating the slower sweep speeds should result in the faster sweep speeds being calibrated. You didn't mess with the sweep capacitors did you?
06:58:36 <arch> nope
06:58:40 <arch> i didnt do anything to it yet
07:00:30 <DHess_US> Here is what the 2230 analog and digital storage displays look like, https://ibb.co/0cxvzpV https://ibb.co/V3pGLw6
07:00:31 <EEVBot> [Title] - 2230-Analog — ImgBB
07:01:13 <DHess_US> One nice feature of the 22xx DSO models is that you get a readout in analog mode.
07:01:14 <arch> i will let you know how the voltages on the PSU rails look. these are the main rails to check: https://paste.ee/p/dH7Ug#C0eIqM9Vosl9BqNA1OwcL4F2CJyRMfTb
07:01:15 <EEVBot> [Title] - Paste.ee - View paste dH7Ug
07:02:13 <DHess_US> If they are not out of range, then you should not trim them because it will affect later calibration steps.
07:02:22 <DHess_US> Unless something is broken, they are likely fine.
07:02:38 <arch> right, that's exactly what im gonna do, follow what it says in the manual lol
07:02:50 <DHess_US> If your sweep is that far off, be sure to check the variable sweep control inside the time/div switch.
07:03:14 <arch> i have a feeling it's gotta be the PSU, because the traces are kinda dim too
07:03:35 <DHess_US> You said the vertical calibration was good?
07:03:43 <arch> i got lucky when i bought my BKP 1540 for $70 in total. but that Tek 2213A wasn't a good pick
07:03:54 <DHess_US> If the vertical calibration is good, then there isn't a problem with the power supply affecting the CRT.
07:04:03 <arch> the vertical is very slightly off. im probably not gonna bother with the vertical. the horiz is wack
07:04:04 Quit: Guest69 ([email protected]) Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
07:04:26 <DHess_US> A power supply problem would affect vertical and horizontal deflection together.
07:05:14 <arch> the funny thing is, the BKP's channel 1 has the opposite problem: the vertical is off, but horizontal is fine. im using the Tek as my first test subject, to get familiar
07:05:21 <arch> because i like my BKP better than the Tek
07:05:28 <arch> even though the BKP is 40Mhz
07:05:37 <arch> the trace on taht thing is beautifulll
07:06:08 <arch> once i get the gist of how to calibrate this tek, ill operate on the BKP
07:07:33 <DHess_US> Be glad that you are not diagnosing a problem like this, https://ibb.co/K5ryXs8
07:07:33 <EEVBot> [Title] - c20s — ImgBB
07:08:54 <DHess_US> Same thing at a faster sweep speed, https://ibb.co/vh9q7Lf
07:08:55 <EEVBot> [Title] - c20ms-720 — ImgBB
07:09:16 <DHess_US> It took me literally months to track that down in my first 2230.
07:10:35 <arch> here's a picture of how weak the trace looks. it looks brigher cuz the camera, but it's actually pretty dim in person. also you can see how off the horizontal is. im supposed to see 5 divs at 20us, but i see 4.2 instead: https://imgur.com/a/nhiODMy
07:10:36 <EEVBot> [Title] - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
07:12:04 <arch> err not 2213A. fk i was confused. well, good thing i also have the service manual for that
07:12:25 <arch> yeah i havent touched this scope in many years so i forgot lol
07:13:35 <DHess_US> The CRT might be worn out. The 2213 had a design error where the CRT heater voltage was too high which wore the CRTs out quickly. There was a modification to fix it.
07:14:01 <DHess_US> I can link the change notice to you later if you do not have it.
07:14:13 <DHess_US> bbl
07:15:28 <arch> DHess_US, are you referring to this? http://hakanh.com/dl/docs/kitinstructions/045-0034-00.pdf
07:15:37 <T3sl4> i thought it was the 475 with that
07:15:45 <T3sl4> my CRT dimmed so quickly
07:16:00 <T3sl4> but then, i did use it quite a lot in those 5-10 years that i did
07:17:38 <arch> is it a bad idea to operate analog scopes off quasi-sine/squre-wave inverters?
07:27:47 Join: MrMobodies ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:33:06 <T3sl4> doubt it, but as is usually the case, it depends
07:35:13 Join: Dude ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
07:36:10 <T3sl4> steve30: https://imgur.com/gallery/yE8sGij
07:36:11 <EEVBot> [Title] - Yes sir - Album on Imgur
07:38:44 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://i.imgur.com/LxsF4FU.png
07:40:56 <arch> T3sl4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt6iTwVIiMM
07:40:57 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Typography | Cave Johnson Lemons
07:41:10 * T3sl4 nods
07:46:32 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
07:47:11 <flyback> <arch> i want to try this out so badly. need to see how a planar flyback built on DIY copperclad performs
07:47:13 * flyback bites arch
07:50:31 * T3sl4 sparks flyback
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08:01:27 Quit: Dude ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
08:27:59 <DHess_US> <arch> is it a bad idea to operate analog scopes off quasi-sine/squre-wave inverters?
08:28:01 <DHess_US> Nope
08:28:47 <DHess_US> <arch> DHess_US, are you referring to this? http://hakanh.com/dl/docs/kitinstructions/045-0034-00.pdf
08:28:52 <DHess_US> No, that is the power supply change notice.
08:30:07 <DHess_US> This is the CRT filament mod, http://www.hakanh.com/dl/docs/hardtofind/SUP3010.pdf
08:31:03 <DHess_US> If your 2213 came with the power supply modification, then it already had the CRT filament modification.
08:46:25 Quit: Kryp ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
09:17:05 Quit: modrobert ([email protected]) Quit: Lost terminal
09:31:38 Join: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) to #EEVblog
09:31:56 <Nothing\> man no wonder the weather sucks so much lately
09:32:13 <Nothing\> apparently there are shittons of wildfires to the north and the wind is blowing all the smoke down this way
09:32:47 <Nothing\> so it's been super hazy the last couple of weeks and raining frequently, presumably from particulate matter in the air acting as nucleation points for water a la cloud seeding
09:33:03 <Nothing\> also the sunsets have been incredibly vibrant and brightly colored
09:38:27 <DHess_US> Goddamn Microsoft, "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie-pop?" needs to be updated to "How many reboots does it take to get to the end of Windows updates?"
09:42:05 * electrohead microwaves T3sl4
09:42:26 * T3sl4 macrowives electrohead
09:42:52 * electrohead gets macro'd
09:44:56 <Nothing\> i haven't updated windows since i got my computer
09:45:04 <Nothing\> hell, i haven't even rebooted my computer in i dunno how long
09:45:23 <Nothing\> is there some alias or environment constant that lists your uptime?
09:45:37 <Nothing\> or are you using windows 11?
09:45:41 <DHess_US> Depending on the machine I have to reboot about every week to 2 weeks or it becomes unstable.
09:45:56 <DHess_US> yes, but all of my uptimes are now reset.
09:46:01 * Ampera hugs electrohead
09:46:16 <DHess_US> Because I had to reboot my low memory machines last week, and now I rebooted my high memory machine.
09:46:33 <Nothing\> I was half tempted to try windows 11 but I remembered when I tried to upgrade from XP to 7, I accidentally formatted my media drive instead of my OS drive cuz I just set it to format and then went out to run some errands and when I came back I found 1.5tb of media was gone
09:46:43 <Nothing\> and this was like 5+ years ago so that was a lot
09:46:55 <Nothing\> it felt like my house burned down or something, you know what i mean?
09:47:00 <DHess_US> I rebooted my low memory machines about 12 hours ago to do updates.
09:47:15 <DHess_US> But I did that because they were becoming unstable.
09:47:17 <Nothing\> like everything i spent so long to acquire was suddenly gone in the matter of a moment
09:47:21 <DHess_US> "low memory" being 8 and 12 GB.
09:47:38 <Nothing\> yeah apparently there's some major security update for windows 10 that came out a couple of weeks ago
09:48:02 <Nothing\> i guess there's some exploit that allows people to create admin accounts or get admin access through some exploit in the spool service
09:48:29 <Nothing\> which makes me wonder why that even runs to begin with, i don't even have a printer
09:48:41 <Nothing\> you'd think windows should detect that and disable the service just in case
09:48:55 <Nothing\> and do the same with similar services for peripherals
09:49:31 <Nothing\> DHess_US, I always found updating windows made it LESS stable
09:49:34 <Nothing\> or at least less usable
09:50:09 <Nothing\> i always used to avoid SP updates because every time i'd upgrade to SP, regardless of what version of windows it is, my performance degrades almost to the point where my computer's unusable
09:50:32 <Nothing\> then i spend the next few hours installing performance fixing updates that help, but never get it to where it was before
09:50:59 <Nothing\> yikes, just came about 1/4in from smashing my funny bone. But i hit my elbow bone instead
09:55:13 <Nothing\> man, why the hell did i ever buy the sims 4
09:55:21 <Nothing\> i spent 30 minutes playing it since november lol
09:55:46 <Nothing\> i guess it wasn't as novel an experience as the sims 1 was back in the day
09:55:46 <DHess_US> The spool service handles things other than the printer, of course.
09:55:56 <Nothing\> DHess_US, i wasn't aware of that
09:56:22 <Nothing\> i guess that's like how they built internet explorer into the file explorer
09:56:33 <Nothing\> so it was impossible to remove internet explorer
09:56:56 <DHess_US> GMC did the same thing when the government went after them for antitrust.
09:57:00 <Nothing\> or they built the file explorer around internet explorer, i'm not sure
09:57:10 <Nothing\> antitrust? with what?
09:57:16 <DHess_US> GMC divided the company divisions up such that none of them could survive without the others, so there was nothing to break up.
09:57:32 <DHess_US> So one division make engines, one made transmissions, etc.
09:57:42 <DHess_US> So there was nothing which could be split off to make a viable company.
09:57:54 <Nothing\> it's not like GMC's the only automotive manufacturer in north america
09:58:07 <Nothing\> hell, comcast's got a worse monopoly
09:58:07 <DHess_US> This was decades ago.
09:58:13 <Nothing\> i dunno how cable companies get away with it
09:58:20 <DHess_US> comcast has a government granted monopoly.
09:58:33 <Nothing\> it's the same here with Rogers
09:58:48 <Nothing\> and even in areas where they don't have Rogers, it's always just ONE cable company
09:58:55 <Nothing\> then others who lease their equipment
09:59:54 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://imgur.com/gallery/W1KJ5F6
09:59:55 <EEVBot> [Title] - Sous vide vs smoker - Album on Imgur
10:00:23 <Nothing\> i dunno why but that reminds me about earlier today i was looking at a wiki list of gay actors
10:00:36 <Ampera> neat
10:01:05 <Nothing\> and there was this one filipino guy whose name was Ate Gay
10:01:16 <Nothing\> i'm like "gee he's gay? that's a surprise"
10:01:40 <Nothing\> chose himself a hell of a name for a gay guy though, so hats off to him for that
10:02:32 <Nothing\> and he performed with someone called Ethel Booba
10:02:57 <Nothing\> imagine the marquis
10:03:03 <Nothing\> "Ethel Booba Ate Gay"
10:03:35 <Nothing\> oy i'm bored
10:04:03 <Nothing\> speaking of yiddish, you know that glitch is a yiddish word?
10:04:06 <Nothing\> i never woulda guessed
10:09:00 <Nothing\> oh cool, i have a flight manual for an A380
10:09:33 <Nothing\> that oughta be interesting until my ADD causes my attention to slip
10:16:21 <Nothing\> and there it goes
10:16:42 <Nothing\> decided to uninstall adobe reader cuz it keeps begging me to restart my computer so it can install some stupid update
10:17:27 <Nothing\> maybe i'll try foxit again. That was a good pdf reader back in the day. Or just stick to using Chrome.
10:24:47 <T3sl4> sumatrapdf is the free free one
10:25:21 <steve30> hi
10:27:14 <Nothing\> hey steve-o
10:27:17 <Nothing\> how's it going, buddy?
10:29:37 * T3sl4 hugs the steve30 and Nothing\ together
10:31:15 * Nothing\ group hugs T3sl4 and steve30 as well as Ampera for good measure
10:31:24 * Ampera hugs Nothing\
10:31:29 <Nothing\> <3
10:31:32 <Ampera> how are you doing nowhere man?
10:31:36 <Nothing\> how you doing man?
10:31:47 <Ampera> Alright enough
10:32:08 <Nothing\> i'd doing alright as well
10:32:36 <Nothing\> i mean, i'm doing well now, but i worry about my next episode. Which is only an inevitability
10:32:50 <Nothing\> also, you knoww how i've been eating so much weed lately?
10:33:08 <Nothing\> making edibles out of infused butter and what not
10:33:42 <Ampera> I've just been struggling with the same decision I've always been struggling with.
10:33:45 <Nothing\> well, i pooped today (first time in a week and a half and every bit as painful) but besides that, it actually smelled like weed lol
10:33:59 <Ampera> Enough has happened with the hormones that I believe this is my one last and final chance to turn back, and I am strongly considering it.
10:34:02 <Nothing\> Ampera, i'm sorry you haven't been able to make any headway in that regard
10:34:16 <Nothing\> i couldn't imagine struggling with such a decision for so long
10:34:40 <Ampera> simply imagine the hardest decision you have ever made
10:34:41 <Nothing\> Ampera, even if you turn back, is there anything to prevent you from trying again later?
10:34:46 <Ampera> now imagine making and remaking that decision every single day
10:34:48 <Ampera> over and over again
10:35:11 <Ampera> Eventually there will be come a time where, given more advanced age, I do not believe it will be practical to transition.
10:35:13 <Nothing\> well that's the thing, what i thought would be the hardest decision in my life wound up being made the easiest one thanks to certain people
10:35:22 <Ampera> If that's 25, 30, 40, 50, whatever, I don't know.
10:35:29 <Ampera> however I do not wish to remain in flux for anywhere near that long
10:35:41 <Nothing\> that is, deciding to voluntarily estrange myself from my daughter since she wanted nothing to do with me anyways
10:35:50 <Ampera> That's one thing I've noticed. A lot of the time when people have a truly hard decision, it often ends up being made for them
10:36:03 <Ampera> in my case, nobody can make this decision for me, nobody can even make one impossible over the other
10:36:13 <Ampera> I have infinite power to do either, and the decision is exclusively within my control
10:36:32 <Nothing\> every visit was like pulling teeth. And sshe identified my ex's husband more as a father than me thanks to her brainwashing. So I just turned my back and let her live her life as she wanted
10:37:20 <Nothing\> Ampera, well, why not hold off for now and then reconsider it later when you're in a more stable place, mentally.
10:37:45 <Ampera> None of us live an easy path. It is what we do with that path, what goals we set, and how we deal the suffering we need to endure to get there, which not only defines who we are, but I believe defines the meaning of life itself.
10:37:49 <Nothing\> i dunno if you can just go off your hormones cold turkey or if you can just stop suddenly
10:38:11 <Ampera> Oh I could stop cold turkey right now, and have before.
10:38:19 <Nothing\> Ampera, frankly if i weren't such a pussy i'd have stuck a knife into my chest loooong ago
10:38:45 <Ampera> This decision isn't hard to execute, either I keep eating the pills, or I don't
10:38:55 <Nothing\> but unfortunately thanks to already having stabbed myself once, I know how incredibly unpleasant it is to get stabbed. Nevermind if you hit a vital organ
10:38:56 <Ampera> but the reason why I do not want to simply pick it up another time is I do not want to exist in that flux.
10:39:14 <Nothing\> but seriously Ampera i just don't want to be here anymore
10:39:19 <Nothing\> i see no reason for it
10:39:21 <Ampera> I've pondered on this decision for years, and not only do I not wish to ponder on it for more, all I've been able to do with the time I've had is mull and postpone
10:39:27 <Ampera> kicking the can down the road is a non-solution
10:39:32 <Nothing\> i'm just constantly getting shit on by anything and everything possible
10:39:38 Quit: Skaface82 ([email protected]) Connection closed
10:39:43 <Nothing\> sure i catch a break every now and then
10:39:59 <Ampera> As I said, life is defined by the goals we set, and how we endure the suffering we need to face to get to it.
10:40:03 <Nothing\> but i shouldn't have to rely on catching a break to be able to do things that most people have no problem with
10:40:07 <Nothing\> like getting a home
10:40:14 <Nothing\> or maintaining said home
10:40:19 <Nothing\> or going out into public
10:40:28 <Ampera> Suicide is uncomfortable simply because it defies the very meaning of life. To have that simple, yet that permanent of an escape is beyond the formula that keeps us here
10:40:35 <Ampera> lol
10:40:39 <Ampera> nobody has it easy getting a home
10:40:51 <Ampera> those who do are born with a silver spoon up their ass
10:40:53 <Nothing\> i don't mean to sound whiney, but it's just not fair that i have to struggle sooo hard just to do these simple things that most people don't even think twice about doing
10:41:03 <Ampera> Welcome to reality.
10:41:05 <Ampera> Reality is not fair.
10:41:11 <Nothing\> yeah that's the thing
10:41:16 <Nothing\> we base reality on OUR rules
10:41:21 <Nothing\> human rules and standards
10:41:23 <Ampera> Reality is calculated, cruel, and both forgiving and not.
10:41:44 <Nothing\> that's what makes it so much more difficult to cope with when something we deem to be unfair happens
10:41:53 <Nothing\> but in reality there is no fair or unfair
10:41:57 <Nothing\> just life
10:42:01 <Ampera> From the start of humanity simple trying to find the next meal to eat, to today's advanced, intricate, and complicated societies, reality has been nothing but a void empty of promises
10:43:05 <Ampera> Most people find one way or another to cope, but the most common, universal way, is to pretend reality is not as cold and meaningless as it is
10:43:14 <Ampera> Be it through religion, through politics, through fantasy
10:43:23 <Ampera> perhaps even drugs and alcohol are lying to one's self in a way
10:43:50 <Ampera> There are very few people who have ever been able to stand up on their own two feet, look existence square in the eye, and proceed to tell themselves no lies
10:44:32 <Ampera> Yet, there are still reasons why we are here. There are still things you and anyone can do.
10:44:58 <Ampera> I am confident I will never kill myself purely because I know intensely, as long as I still breathe, there are possibilities. There is something to experience.
10:45:42 <Ampera> and there are truly very very few situations and futures so bleak and disparate in our world, even through the cold hard truth of reality, that makes the ultimate rejection of reality worth it.
10:46:18 <Ampera> I mean to say, in short, that you need to not only accept, but understand reality as exactly what it is, instead of preparing to abandon it outright.
10:47:02 <Ampera> Perhaps one of the biggest reasons why this decision is so hard for me is because I know, regardless of which path I take, it will be disgustingly hard, but it will work out.
10:47:29 <Ampera> it is a condensation and purification of picking a poison of no better
11:06:20 <Nothing\> speaking of condensation
11:06:28 <Nothing\> lemme ask you something Ampera
11:06:36 <Nothing\> have you notice it's been unusually hazy lately?
11:06:46 <Ampera> yes, that's because of wildfire smoke blown over from the west coast
11:06:48 <Nothing\> or that the sunsets have been ususually vibrant and colorful
11:06:56 <Nothing\> yeah, it's crazy isn't it
11:06:58 <Ampera> the AQI where I live is currently at around 160
11:07:05 <Ampera> honestly I wish the west coast would stop bursting into flames
11:07:08 <Ampera> it's starting to get annoying
11:07:15 <Nothing\> actually in my area it's from northern ontario and manitoba that the smoke's coming from
11:07:18 <Ampera> some parts of NY have AQI's as bad as 300
11:07:33 <Nothing\> we've never had problems with wildfires like this before
11:07:54 <Nothing\> heh aqi is 29 here right now
11:08:18 <Nothing\> although we just had storms
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12:32:27 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - Yes my Lord. https://t.co/41fy8bTYuw
13:13:00 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
13:40:21 <electrohead> in response to rust_collector's mathematics song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YEZiDtnbdA
13:40:21 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: LINDEMANN - Mathematik ft. Haftbefehl (Official Video)
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15:01:57 Quit: Guest69 ([email protected]) Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
15:22:45 <MrMobodies> Hello
15:22:46 <EEVBot> Hello, MrMobodies!
15:22:55 <MrMobodies> Amazon has added some more focus rings
15:23:09 <MrMobodies> but the thumbnails now autoplay
15:23:11 <MrMobodies> ##.tst-video-overlay-player-html5
15:23:39 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/JX0VeLt.jpg
15:24:06 <MrMobodies> focus ring grey to orange, why can't just leave these things alone.
15:24:33 <MrMobodies> don't like autoplay with anything but glad that was easy to stop
15:25:29 <T3sl4> stupid autoplay
15:26:10 <MrMobodies> Last time I think on the top right there is a picture
15:26:16 <MrMobodies> but then they made it autoplay
15:26:20 <MrMobodies> so I hid that last time
15:26:37 <MrMobodies> not it's the tiles on hover despite their being a play button if I wanted to see the trailer
15:27:00 <MrMobodies> I was very upset about it though until I found the culprit element
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15:35:15 <MrMobodies> Doesn't this look nice?
15:35:16 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/VXZcQiJ.jpg
15:35:30 <MrMobodies> when I click a video it goes directly to video player and plays
15:35:44 <MrMobodies> no spinners, no dimming when the mouse is over it
15:36:08 <MrMobodies> compared to this:
15:36:09 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/kN6kfKA.jpg
15:36:19 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/qRjQvhI.jpg
15:36:39 <MrMobodies> Which do you prefer? with without all that overlay stuff?
15:38:02 <MrMobodies> see how the picture gets dimmed:
15:38:03 <MrMobodies> https://imgur.com/a/VQJ3sok
15:38:04 <EEVBot> [Title] - Prime no Adblock - Album on Imgur
15:38:08 <MrMobodies> on focus and unfocus
15:38:42 <MrMobodies> very annoying when I seek around to see things in the background and tampers with the contrast brightness.
15:38:50 <MrMobodies> in effect I mean
15:38:55 <MrMobodies> what do you think?
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15:52:00 <Halcyon> Hey all
15:54:22 * T3sl4 waggles a glass of red wine
15:55:02 <Halcyon> Ooooh friend
15:56:59 Join: Watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:58:15 Nick: Watcher is now known as nightlight
16:02:08 <MrMobodies> morning
16:02:20 <Halcyon> Hey MrMobodies
16:02:27 <MrMobodies> Do you use Amazon prime?
16:02:31 <Halcyon> Nope
16:02:32 <MrMobodies> to see videos
16:02:36 <MrMobodies> oh
16:02:45 <MrMobodies> they started autoplaying the titles and thumbnails
16:02:58 <MrMobodies> ##.tst-video-overlay-player-html5
16:03:08 <MrMobodies> so now when hovering over a title, it shows the picture
16:03:18 <MrMobodies> and the pictures goes out no hidden
16:03:22 <MrMobodies> before it just stayed there
16:03:39 <MrMobodies> they do mute it though I don't want it autoplaying
16:03:50 <Halcyon> Right
16:03:59 <MrMobodies> https://i.imgur.com/JX0VeLt.jpg
16:04:33 <MrMobodies> does that bother you?
16:04:43 <MrMobodies> if things autoplayer on mouse hover
16:04:57 <Halcyon> *shrug* I don't use Amazon, so I can't really relate
16:10:43 <MrMobodies> well like with youtube I removed the spinner and gradients
16:10:52 <MrMobodies> Amazon just fimd the wholke picture on mouse hover
16:11:18 <MrMobodies> *dims the whole picture I mean but nice without it
16:11:34 <MrMobodies> click a video it plays, no splash or spinners
16:12:00 <MrMobodies> right click or space pauses/play the video
16:12:09 <MrMobodies> nothing slapped in the middle
16:13:05 <MrMobodies> from this: https://i.imgur.com/VXZcQiJ.jpg to this https://i.imgur.com/qRjQvhI.jpg
16:13:27 Quit: nightlight ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
16:13:32 <MrMobodies> and this is gone too: https://i.imgur.com/kN6kfKA.jpg buffering or pause
16:14:05 <MrMobodies> just fed the birds a loaf of stale bread and they'll happy
16:14:58 <MrMobodies> What do you think of the WiGL thing?
16:15:11 <Halcyon> What's WiGL ?
16:15:19 <MrMobodies> od Dave's latest video
16:15:24 <MrMobodies> another wireless power startup
16:15:28 <Halcyon> I haven't watched it
16:15:34 <MrMobodies> and the mount of bullshit is much
16:15:36 <Halcyon> Pfft, what a load of crap
16:15:42 <hsn> Wiggle wiggle wiggle
16:15:44 <MrMobodies> I think Dave should give the Doctor in there an award
16:15:48 <MrMobodies> bullshit of the year award
16:15:57 <Halcyon> It's not Roohparvar again is it? :P
16:16:10 <MrMobodies> I don't know
16:16:17 <MrMobodies> commenter "help us engineers understand"
16:16:49 <MrMobodies> then they talk about removing videos and blurring stuff out
16:17:31 <MrMobodies> in the "raw footage" has protect stuff they don't want people see
16:17:34 <MrMobodies> and it is only 6 seconds
16:17:53 Quit: Ysjoelfir_BNC ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:17:54 <MrMobodies> the latest video WiGL pulld down
16:17:57 <MrMobodies> 6 seconds long
16:18:06 <MrMobodies> and Dave featured the whole 6 seconds
16:19:26 <MrMobodies> they'll just look at it on Dave's debunking video see if there is any trade secrets
16:19:40 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdRVtka0Jg
16:19:40 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: EEVblog 1408 - $5M WiGL Wireless Charging BUSTED!
16:20:13 <MrMobodies> Here's what I narrowed it down too
16:20:14 <MrMobodies> Dr. Ahmad Glover: You engineers don't get what WiGL is about
16:20:23 <MrMobodies> Rimpelbekkie K: OK, THEN MAKE US UNDERSTAND
16:20:35 <MrMobodies> Dr. Ahmad Glover: some of the raw footage has WiGL "trade secrets" and we have to blur it out then we'd feel comfortable making you understand.
16:21:46 <MrMobodies> sorry the comment section on the wigl website at the bottom I'd though I'd simplfy it a bit
16:22:12 <MrMobodies> to do with them removing their latest 6 second video
16:22:25 <MrMobodies> after Dave debunked it
16:23:30 <T3sl4> they dont seem to have a great grasp of the english language either
16:26:39 <MrMobodies> I find the video on their main page insulting
16:26:45 <MrMobodies> the combination of words and the music
16:27:14 <MrMobodies> (like I am stupid, and these smart things will wirelessly and smartly charge your devices... etc
16:27:53 <MrMobodies> I didn't see all of it it was up to that point where I was comparing the up/down statistics on their videos
16:28:17 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNQE7c4peeQ
16:28:18 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: WiGL eNERGY Animation Disclaimer
16:28:43 <MrMobodies> does it sound insulting to you?
16:29:06 <MrMobodies> smartly charge... nevermind how.
16:35:08 <MrMobodies> I found this piece of music
16:35:10 <MrMobodies> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AuIOAWS4Ts
16:35:10 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Jean Michel Jarre - Calypso Part 3
16:35:40 <MrMobodies> sounds nice to me up to 02.56
16:51:19 Quit: Skaface82 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
16:54:21 <steve30> hi
16:56:56 <Halcyon> T3sl4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wl_-L7B0E
16:56:56 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: 고양이 키우는 집에 꼭 구멍을 뚫어야 하는 이유
16:57:36 * T3sl4 paws at Halcyon
16:58:48 <steve30> I've just been to Tesco
16:59:07 <steve30> I was pleased to see that less than half the people were wearing masks :)
17:00:44 <T3sl4> vax rate has been going up :)
17:06:50 <Halcyon> Again, why is that a good thing Steve?
17:07:11 <Halcyon> Are restrictions still in place?
17:07:38 <steve30> for starters it makes people look like normal shoppers rather than people who are about to mug me.
17:07:47 <Halcyon> So it's all about looks?
17:07:48 <steve30> Also, no more legal restrictions :D
17:07:53 <Halcyon> Oh well then who gives a crap?
17:08:02 <Halcyon> If it's not against the law, people can do what they want
17:09:48 <T3sl4> you're more effeminate or black than i thought, if you thought health-masked people want to mug you
17:10:38 <Halcyon> I'd be more worried about the Karen's not wearing masks who are about to attack you and threaten to have you "charged" with some bullshit
17:10:52 <T3sl4> ^
17:11:10 <Halcyon> I used to laugh at people who called Police and "demanded" to have some person charged.
17:11:23 <T3sl4> i'm sure that happens fairly often
17:11:26 <steve30> lol
17:11:29 <Halcyon> Oh yes, very often
17:11:47 <Halcyon> Until I remind people that they don't get to decide who gets if/when someone gets charged and with what
17:11:50 <Halcyon> That's my job
17:12:38 <Halcyon> That was an badly constructed sentence
17:12:48 <Halcyon> You get my drift.
17:12:57 <Halcyon> The other one I love is "Do you have a warrant?"
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17:13:50 <Halcyon> It's really cute when people watch TV and think they know the law.
17:15:52 * T3sl4 munches a bit of smoked gouda
17:16:16 <Halcyon> Mmmmm I love smoked cheeses
17:17:30 <Halcyon> steve30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RcqBkqXiEY
17:17:31 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Felt emo again might delete
17:17:37 <Halcyon> I like his teeth
17:18:44 <T3sl4> ha
17:19:14 <steve30> ok
17:19:29 <Halcyon> It's also funny :P
17:20:11 <Halcyon> I actually don't mind the punk version of that song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjB6crJV2V0
17:20:12 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: The Lion King - 'I Just Can't Wait to Be King' (POP PUNK COVER)
17:32:26 <hsn> Hey T3sl4
17:32:37 <T3sl4> hi ssan
17:32:50 <hsn> Ive a stupid question again
17:33:47 <hsn> How does capacitive sensor works on battery powered device where stray capacitance to earth is low allready
17:34:21 <T3sl4> low? how low
17:35:37 <hsn> Like in ac wall powered device .. there is some good capacitance to earth right?
17:35:45 <T3sl4> right
17:36:28 <K> hello shorts
17:36:29 <hsn> In battery powered .. if its for example on wooden table .. it will be very low stray capacitance no?
17:36:30 Quit: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit: Leaving
17:36:45 <T3sl4> how low
17:37:10 <hsn> I mean what would be the return path ..
17:37:34 <hsn> Ie .. my finger will conduct ac to earth .. but where is the return path
17:37:36 <T3sl4> well surely it's not zero
17:38:01 <hsn> But its much much lower than ac powered device right?
17:38:14 <T3sl4> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capsph.html
17:38:15 <EEVBot> [Title] - Spherical Capacitor
17:38:21 <hsn> Doesnt that make it harder to design and less tolarant
17:38:54 <T3sl4> not really?
17:41:35 <hsn> Hmm
17:42:23 <T3sl4> how much capacitance is a touch anyway
17:42:45 <hsn> Idk 100pf?
17:43:01 <T3sl4> fuck me that's a fat finger
17:43:51 <hsn> The link u sent::: Isolated Sphere capacitor ..
17:43:51 <hsn> So thats how earth is allready charged and thats why there is stray capacitance
17:44:37 <hsn> T3sl4: geting fcked with fat finger is not good lol
17:45:17 <hsn> 40pf ?
17:45:33 <T3sl4> are you just allergic to math, or what?
17:46:28 <T3sl4> btw, the display surface is, very specifically, not conductive
17:46:42 <T3sl4> so it's never going to be the full, whatever body capacitance to ground is
17:46:53 <T3sl4> or device capacitance to ground, whichever is less, or more specifically both in series
17:48:45 <hsn> Wait let me search maty
17:48:47 <hsn> Math
17:49:07 <K> call your teacher
17:49:59 <hsn> According to google
17:50:00 <hsn> The human body capacitance to a far ground is 100-200 pF, which is really a minimum value.
17:50:28 <hsn> So thats human to gnd .. now finger to device will be small .. in series with the 100pF
17:51:38 <hsn> Is that correct?
17:54:22 <hsn> https://photos.app.goo.gl/W1G49pfQiJiGw3Mf9
17:55:36 <T3sl4> yes!
17:56:20 <hsn> Ch here is 100pf .. but because Cf .. would be .. ? (4 * pi * e(water) * Finger radius) ??
17:56:51 <T3sl4> uh?
17:56:55 <T3sl4> try parallel plate formula
17:57:09 <hsn> Water as human body have lots of water lol
18:03:04 <hsn> Cf = (e * A) / distance .. i got around 2pF for A = 1cm²
18:03:24 <hsn> And distance 0.5mm
18:03:44 <hsn> Permitivity absoloute in vacuum
18:04:03 <hsn> But finger isnt conductive plate .. would that be same?
18:04:18 <T3sl4> conductive enough
18:04:26 <T3sl4> k is somewhere between air, glass and skin
18:04:34 <hsn> Right
18:04:48 <hsn> So if k is 2 .. we get 4pf
18:05:56 <K> im on the chair, not in the air
18:07:05 <hsn> T3sl4: human finger to human foot attached to earth .. is that short circuit?
18:07:23 <T3sl4> at DC? sure
18:07:38 <DHess_US> "Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later. "
18:07:49 <T3sl4> happens all the time
18:08:17 <hsn> At dc .. that would have several mega ohms ..
18:10:20 <hsn> DHess_US: it works for me
18:10:32 <hsn> Eevblog foroum u mean right?
18:11:00 <Halcyon> DHess_US, yeh we're working on it at the moment
18:11:01 <DHess_US> yes
18:11:11 <Halcyon> I might have screwed something up, which meant something else got screwed up :P
18:11:13 <T3sl4> twerking more like
18:11:31 <Halcyon> It should be working now
18:11:31 <K> tworking
18:24:36 <DHess_US> sugar cookies for breakfast
18:24:47 <Halcyon> What kind of sugar cookies?
18:25:13 <DHess_US> Is there more than one kind?
18:25:44 <Halcyon> *shrug*
18:25:51 <Halcyon> All cookies have sugar in them?
18:26:05 <DHess_US> "sugar cookie" is a specific type of cookie.
18:26:06 <DHess_US> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jLSLQBOwX4
18:26:07 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: What kind of bomb?
18:27:46 <T3sl4> sugar cookie is the cookie without anything else in em
18:28:26 <K> prolly is some euphemism too
18:30:14 <Halcyon> So it's just literally compressed sugar?
18:31:57 <DHess_US> T3sl4, they don't use the same ingredients as other more common cookies.
18:32:43 <DHess_US> I've made them from scratch before but they always taste the same.
18:32:53 <T3sl4> chocolate chip cookie is sugar cookie with chocolate chips mixed in
18:33:04 <DHess_US> No.
18:33:26 <DHess_US> All of the chocolate chip cookies I have eaten include brown sugar, and the sugar cookies do not.
18:33:50 <DHess_US> sugar cookies are like the quickbread version of cookies.
18:34:03 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://i.imgur.com/vyRr089.png
18:34:20 <T3sl4> i make my sugar cookies with brown sugar?
18:34:29 <K> you are a heretic
18:34:44 <DHess_US> Then they aren't sugar cookies. They are chocolate chip cookies without the chocolate chips.
18:34:58 <K> false advertising too
18:35:39 <DHess_US> Most cookies use the same dough as chocolate chip cookies, but sugar cookies are an exception.
18:37:03 <Halcyon> T3sl4, that's lies
18:37:20 <Halcyon> DHess_US, wouldn't they just be "cookies" then ?
18:37:40 <DHess_US> But cookie is non-specific.
18:37:52 <Halcyon> But most cookies have sugar
18:38:24 <DHess_US> If you have a random cookie, it is more likely to use the same dough at chocolate chip or oatmeal or raisin cookies which are all the same than sugar cookie dough.
18:38:32 <Halcyon> What makes a sugar cookie a sugar cookie, as apposed to a cookie cookie?
18:38:35 <DHess_US> I suspect all cookies have sugar.
18:38:56 <T3sl4> it's flour, sugar, egg, baking powder or soda as appropriate for pH, butter and flavoring. i fail to see the difference
18:38:58 <DHess_US> It uses a different set of ingredients for the dough. For one, it lacks brown sugar.
18:39:12 <T3sl4> how recrystallized my sugar happens to be, doesn't make any difference to me
18:39:26 <Halcyon> I would think most cookies use normal white sugar
18:39:31 <DHess_US> They taste very different from more common cookies.
18:39:37 <DHess_US> They taste like quickbread.
18:39:52 <Halcyon> Now I'm even more confused
18:39:57 <DHess_US> Halcyon, most cookies do, but most cookies *also* have brown sugar with a 50/50 ratio.
18:40:08 <T3sl4> so, quickbread is, i guess, breaddier cookie
18:40:08 <Halcyon> What the hell is quickbread?
18:40:23 <T3sl4> you're not really convincing me here
18:40:25 <Halcyon> You Americans are weird
18:40:37 * T3sl4 gobs Halcyon with a biscuit
18:40:42 <DHess_US> quickbread uses baking powder instead of yeast.
18:40:52 * Halcyon hands T3sl4 a Biscoff
18:40:57 * T3sl4 teas
18:41:10 <Halcyon> They have new cream filled ones now T3sl4
18:41:23 <DHess_US> It ends up tasting like a cookie but with bread texture.
18:41:23 <T3sl4> i know how you love filling things with cream
18:41:35 <Halcyon> Yeh but this time, I had it in an around my mouth
18:41:38 <Halcyon> It was quite delicious
18:41:56 <Halcyon> https://www.lotusbiscoff.com/en-us/producten/lotus-biscoff-sandwich-cookies
18:41:57 <EEVBot> [Title] - Lotus Biscoff Sandwich cookies. | Lotus Biscoff
18:42:15 <Halcyon> I had the "Biscoff Cream" flavour. Not too bad. I think the Vanilla would be better
18:42:46 <T3sl4> also, i don't think i've eever made, just, quickbread. so boring, what's the point? put a mashed up banana in there or something, so much better
18:43:02 * Halcyon mashes T3sl4's banana
18:43:07 <T3sl4> or shredded zucchini or carrot, or blueberries, or other various and sundry
18:43:16 <Halcyon> Or cranberries
18:43:33 <T3sl4> and bombs, and bombs, and guns
18:47:12 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/BCVnPwe.jpg
18:47:29 <Halcyon> ..... HOW?
18:47:36 <T3sl4> SMRT
18:47:52 <DHess_US> Holster mounted upside down on belt.
18:47:57 <Halcyon> But....
18:48:02 <Halcyon> HOW!?
18:48:10 <Halcyon> Why are these people allowed to have firearms?
18:48:12 <DHess_US> Because ... she's a woman?
18:48:21 <T3sl4> uh?
18:49:18 <DHess_US> I wonder if they were all afraid to tell her.
18:50:30 <Halcyon> Well she's not going to shoot anyone in a hurry. Worst she can do is throw her hot beverage
18:51:01 <DHess_US> She might shoot herself in a hurry.
18:51:39 <Halcyon> The US scares me
18:52:09 <DHess_US> People make more of it then the situation warrants.
18:52:14 <Halcyon> Are you sure Idiocracy was fiction?
18:52:21 <DHess_US> So they say.
18:52:46 <T3sl4> what is she anyway, security? just civ carry?
18:53:03 <DHess_US> damnifiknow
18:53:03 <Halcyon> Brown is a horrible colour
18:53:07 <T3sl4> wouldn't put it past the police to do that, let alone anyone else...
18:53:17 <T3sl4> police have to take intelligence tests, remember
18:53:19 <DHess_US> Oh, I know police do things like that.
18:54:35 <DHess_US> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294225/SWAT-officer-attracts-ridicule-s-pictured-rifle-sight-backwards.html
18:54:37 <EEVBot> [Title] - SWAT officer attracts ridicule after he¿s pictured with his rifle sight on backwards | Daily Mail Online
18:55:09 <Halcyon> I wonder if his mates did that as a prank and it was too late to change it ? :P
18:55:23 <K> special weapons and tactics eh
18:55:48 <K> yellow bus special, pardon my bad taste
18:55:58 <Halcyon> "Speshul"
18:59:20 <DHess_US> backwards sights and magazines are pretty common.
18:59:48 <DHess_US> Usually with officers deployed to unfamiliar duty with unfamiliar weapons but not always.
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20:57:38 <K> hello
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