#d&d - 2013-12-12 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-12-12

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« 2013-12-11 2013-12-13 »
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28:06 <Steven> sup avatar...
28:09 <Steven> how ya like that thread?
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00:30 <Acentes> heya folks
00:17 <Acentes> ello?
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23:41 <Damalon01> hi all
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41:55 <Darkkapow> So for anyone who hasn't in the past you need to vote in the next upcoming RPG SuperStar, regardless of if my item makes it through or not.
55:40 <s_gmusic> linkplz
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12:55 <CWheezy> what is your item
13:14 <Darkkapow> not allowed to say it has to anonymous
13:36 <Darkkapow> http://paizo.com/rpgsuperstar
13:45 <Darkkapow> has to be*
13:59 <Darkkapow> but i will be entering something
52:26 <s_gmusic> wow... someone makes a thread regarding items on certs and how/if they should be corrected and most of the (few) posts are about keen on longbows. :\
53:17 <Avatar> voting is painful
53:41 <Avatar> it took forever and a day just to get to star voter
54:16 <Avatar> when you think you're close to the first 100 votes, expect at least 2-3 times as many votes as you've already made
55:02 <Avatar> I don't know how the lunatics managed to get, what was it, 1500? for champion
09:37 <Darkkapow> I don't mean for that purpose
09:54 <Darkkapow> I mean for the purpose of possibly seeing my item and then possibly voting for it XP
11:38 <Avatar> that's the same thing though 
11:46 <Avatar> unless you're going to tell us what your item is !
22:32 <Darkkapow> Nope I can't :P
23:22 <Darkkapow> I am just saying if between 1/1/14 and 14/1/14 you have spare time maybe have a look and vote on 1 or 2.
24:05 <Avatar> what are the odds of finding your item if we only vote once or twice
38:20 <Darkkapow> unknown yet still a chance :D
38:30 <Darkkapow> why so pessimistic avatar?
44:10 <Avatar> because of what I said earlier about voting being painful
44:48 <Avatar> don't get me wrong, it is fun to see what people have come up with, but don't try to get to star voter
51:00 <Avatar> I remember having every intention of getting to hopefully near to marathon voter
51:12 <Avatar> until I realised it almost killed me just to get star
57:48 <Darkkapow> okay well here is a question for everyone, if a magic item is something that would be normally be classified as slotless however requires to be used in a hand to game the benefits of the item what slot does it take up?
58:21 <Darkkapow> still slotless I'd say
58:47 <Avatar> yeah slotless
58:59 <Avatar> a hand item goes in the hand slot and doesn't stack with other items in the hand slot
00:09 <Avatar> I think a lot of slotless wondrous items have to be held in your hand to function
01:20 <Darkkapow> my item is a lot cheaper then I expected
05:39 <Avatar> good
05:43 <Avatar> I like voting for cheap items
05:49 <Avatar> even if they are not that good
06:00 <Avatar> there's no point in introducing items nobody can fucking afford
08:45 <Darkkapow> well i meant in comparison to what I thought it would end up costing :/
09:18 <Darkkapow> got to remember too avatar the perimeters of the competition for the open call is design an item for pathfinder in general not PFS play.
10:27 <Darkkapow> While my item is design for PFS play it's intended as a GM resource more than for a PC to use
10:49 <Darkkapow> but at the same time as a GM resource it becomes for the pc's to use at the same time
10:57 <Darkkapow> it's weird
11:07 <Darkkapow> it costs 9,450gp
22:04 <Avatar> PFS is a big part of pathfinder chief
22:22 <Avatar> if I see a 9000gp item and a 4000gp item, your item had better be DAMN good in comparison
28:24 <Darkkapow> As I said it's intended more as a GM resource to give to parties or to use in story line.
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39:27 <Steven> yo
40:30 <Steven> played fortress of the nail for no credit tonight to make it easier for a table.
40:39 <Steven> was pretty difficult.
40:46 <Avatar> I loved GMing fortress of the nail
40:59 <Avatar> one of my favourite scenarios to GM
41:09 <Steven> yeah the GM used some questionable tactics, and GM calls.
41:13 <Avatar> although I've only done it once, and that was online, I'm not sure I'd have the same result in person
41:34 <Steven> I stepped through the <redacted first> and the party all went, we follow.
41:51 <Steven> and i had gotten bit by the dogs.  so i bounced off.
42:05 <Avatar> what do you mean bounced off
42:05 <Steven> and the GM put all of the people in the other room and initiated combat.
42:44 <Steven> so it was a level 5, 6, and 8 vs the creature in the 8-9 tier
43:36 <Steven> while two of us in the other room tried to figure out why i couldnt go through.
44:36 <Avatar> errr
44:55 <Steven> the cerberi have dimentional lock if you fail your fort save.
44:59 <Avatar> you went into the room, got bit, and then got pushed out of the room
45:11 <Avatar> oh
45:13 <Steven> so i couldnt make use of the portal.
45:23 <Avatar> is that before or after you go through
45:43 <Avatar> before I think
45:47 <Steven> that was while we were fighting the prison guard... which i fucking destroyed.
45:52 <Steven> crit on a scythe
47:08 <Steven> yeah, the GM has a habit of making combats more difficult by initiating them so that players have a large disadvantage.
47:23 <Steven> i think because he's under the impression if he is having fun, then everyone is having fun.
50:26 <Steven> then the GM tried to tell people that they were under the impression i was stepping through right after him.
50:26 <Steven> luckily walter was at the table with me playing for no credit, so we 'strongarmed' him into allowing people to step back through if they wanted.
50:28 <Steven> somehow following me means they show up before me and then notice im not there but think everything is fine.
51:52 <Steven> anyways... whats goin on?
55:29 <Steven> would like it if designers would stop adding young templates to things
58:53 <Mekkis> So there was just the GM, one player, and you and walter playing for no credit?
59:22 <Steven> nah, there were 3 players playing for credit.
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49:32 <Avatar> is that legal? a GM, one player playing for credit and 2 players playing for no credit? plus a pregen?
53:31 <Damalon01> so I should avoid playing The Elven Entanglement right? Ive read a few of the reviews, including yours Avatar. It seems like its too OP.
53:59 <Damalon01> I would be taking my gunslinger pirate, level 7
55:04 <Avatar> I don't think they fixed it
55:36 <Avatar> the witch that I took in there had probably the best chance of surviving it out of all the classes, and she died
55:40 <Steven> there was no premade
56:04 <Avatar> no I know, but is that legal
56:22 <Avatar> not pertaining to your situation
56:27 <Avatar> I don't know if you can sit a table like that
57:15 <Avatar> Damalon01: it's the kind of scenario where you might end up dying where you've barely got a chance
57:35 <Steven> why would you be disallowed from sitting at a table for no credit?
57:37 <Avatar> I was level 10 and we were playing down, I think the guys who were in tier got destroyed pretty quickly
58:07 <Steven> other than a gm saying he doesn't want you playing at it.
58:09 <Avatar> it's not about being disallowed, it's about whether the table is legal or not with only 1 player playing for credit
59:19 <Avatar> do you need a minimum of 3 playing for credit with however many not playing for credit that you like, or a minimum of 1?
01:02 <Steven> i dont believe so
01:52 <Steven> i think if you have minimum table size you can play even if no one gets credit.
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02:37 <Grailmont> Hello, is anyone present?
02:42 <Steven> alright, goin to throw some wood on the fire and then gonna nap it up like a boss.
02:55 <Steven> yeah people are always here though sometimes they are just lurking
02:57 <Grailmont> I just wanted some tips on rolling
03:13 <Steven> start at top of hill
03:15 <Avatar> for pathfinder or pathfinder society?
03:21 <Steven> curl up
03:25 <Mekkis> Damalon01, I played Elven Entanglement, under Andrei, and it was a blast
03:27 <Grailmont> Pathfinder, we're doing a kingmaker campaign
03:34 <Avatar> are you the GM
03:38 <Grailmont> I am not
03:44 <Avatar> your GM knows the answer then
03:46 <Mekkis> Played a 10th level character, at tier 10-11
03:58 <Avatar> or are you looking for dice to roll
03:59 <Steven> i think he is looking for character creation advice.
04:00 <Grailmont> topkek
04:04 <Grailmont> No
04:22 <Avatar> oh
04:35 <Steven> no to which one of us?
04:55 <Mekkis> Grailmont, pick up the dice, and throw them
05:08 <Steven> hard
05:12 <Grailmont> Long story short, we had groups of scouts go out to look for supplies, and two came back empty handed, so I wanted to throw a d20 to see if I could intimidate them into taking another scout run during dawn to make up for coming back short
05:14 <Steven> at a child
05:54 <Grailmont> And my intimidate is 9, so I didn't know in what case that would be my modifier, unless thats up to GM
06:48 <Steven> you'd need to discuss that with your GM
06:53 <Grailmont> kk
06:57 <Grailmont> Well that works, thanks folks.
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07:08 <Steven> he used us!
07:43 <Avatar> I'm not sure he was making a lot of sense anyway
07:51 <Steven> yup
07:51 <Avatar> what is topkek
08:19 <Steven> isnt that a snack thing
10:50 <Damalon01> Mekkis I read Andrei's review on the scenario and it seems like he has a really good grasp on how to run it. Im concerned the GM i get online is not so compentant. The GM in question messed up Hellknight's Feast by failing to recognise that you can use diplomacy and bluff to ifluence the guests.
11:14 <Damalon01> ugh spelling
11:17 <Mekkis> '
11:20 <Avatar> Andrei ran it when my witch died
11:31 <Mekkis> your witch DID do stupid things
11:32 <Damalon01> hmmm
11:41 <Avatar> I'm not saying it's his fault
11:57 <Mekkis> it was a particularly bitter review
12:07 <Avatar> my witch did stupid things trying to save my party members who didn't stand a chance
12:21 <Avatar> and it would've worked if the saves weren't ridiclous
12:28 <Mekkis> no, it wouldn't
12:36 <Mekkis> slumber doesn't work on that type of target
12:46 <Avatar> oh sorry that's right
12:49 <Mekkis> you should know that
12:55 <Mekkis> it's plain stupidity
13:01 <Avatar> that makes it something that I couldn't help either way
13:05 <Avatar> without metagaming
13:17 <Damalon01> but would his character have known that Mekkis?
13:24 <Mekkis> I would hope so
13:26 <Damalon01> did he make a knowledge check?
13:27 <Avatar> no, I made a knowledge check and rolled low
13:40 <Avatar> it's the kind of thing I always check for first
13:48 <Damalon01> so Avatar's character knew no better
14:02 <Avatar> I could have survived if I had a save-myself attitude, basically
14:07 <Damalon01> it would have been meta gaming to play as if he did know
14:50 <Avatar> we actually did some table tactics that would've also worked to save us, but the scenario tactics worked strictly against it
15:05 <Avatar> basically ulzef's character trying to save us actually got us all killed as well
15:18 <Damalon01> one review i read said a reflex save at 27 failed
15:18 <Mekkis> not really: knowing a creature's type is basically a given
15:21 <Avatar> and if he hadn't tried to save us, we would've been better off
15:38 <Damalon01> and a diplo check at 38 didnt convince all of the 'allies' to help them
15:54 <Avatar> it wasn't clear what this creature's type was or what those traits were
16:08 <Avatar> I'm not sure how andrei treats "knowing type traits"
16:14 <Avatar> whether it's as part of the knowledge check or not
16:24 <Damalon01> those seem like extreme DCs
16:33 <Mekkis> Avatar, you haven't had a character death you haven't bitched about.
16:34 <Avatar> he didn't alert me that I was fucking up on something that was contradictory
17:04 <Avatar> we're talking about the difficulty of this particular scenario 
17:19 <Avatar> I'm not going to say it was all roses when it clearly wasn't
18:16 <Damalon01> from the reviews im reading, its not just Avatar objecting
18:31 <Avatar> everyone at the table felt the same way
20:04 <Damalon01> Mekkis, if you dont bitch about losing a character it means you didnt care about the character
22:38 <Avatar> it's not that, it's just that most of my deaths have felt like they've been in unfair circumstances
23:31 <Damalon01> are you saying you didnt care about your characters Avatar? :P
23:50 <Steven> i've had one character death that just seemed totally fuckered.
23:58 <Steven> and another was just due to rolls
24:45 <Steven> Black tentacles rolling 17+
25:23 <Damalon01> bad rolls happen. I remember playing a rogue back in 3.5. I searched every door except the one that had the death ray trap on it :(
25:24 <Avatar> I only have a few that I really care about
25:35 <Steven> all the way till character death.
26:28 <Avatar> I think the best death I had was when we played world's largest dungeon, with the poison
26:42 <Damalon01> So far I care about all of my PFS characters. Ive made them so that I do.
26:45 <Avatar> first round, 1 con damage. seems harmless, let it run its course while we move on
27:04 <Avatar> secondary damage, 3d6 con damage. ballig rolls a 5,6,3 = 14 con damage additional
27:37 <Damalon01> ouch!
28:40 <Ballig> I laughed
28:49 <Steven> yeah them poisons be nasty
29:11 <Damalon01> yeah Pathfinder did a lot to fix up poison
29:24 <Damalon01> it wasnt very threatening in 3.5
30:14 <Avatar> I think 1 then 3d6 con damage poison was pretty fucking threatening
30:33 <Damalon01> i mean poison wasnt very threatening in 3.5 dnd
30:40 <Avatar> well, at least when you think neutralise isn't necessary
30:44 <Avatar> that was 3.5 
31:20 <Avatar> I'm pretty sure we had someone who could cast neutralise but it seemed too mediocre to bother
31:40 <Avatar> and I was too good at accidentally springing traps to want to waste it
32:16 <Ballig> it was hard to find a good poison
33:34 <Avatar> one that wouldn't have us scrambling to neutralise it, you mean
33:59 <Ballig> I mean just in general in 3.5 it was hard to find a poison that would actually be a threat to anyone above level 5
34:17 <Damalon01> ayup
34:39 <Damalon01> back in 3.5 nuetralize poison spell automatically worked
35:00 <Damalon01> and thats just a start
36:07 <Mekkis> Damalon01, I've had characters die in Pathfinder. I cared about the characters, but I knew that the death was partially my fault, not the GM's, not the scenario writer's...
37:28 <Damalon01> hmmm it seems to me that thats not the case in Elven Entanglement Mekkis. Seems like the first encounter is stacked against you pretty badly and that some GMs are running it wrwwong.
37:38 <Damalon01> bloody w key.
38:38 <Damalon01> when a GM and Game designer stacks the odds against the player they should damn well take some of the blame.
38:48 <Steven> i played entanglement.
39:04 <Steven> had a blasty blast
39:54 <Mekkis> Damalon01, I can assure you that the first encounter is level-appropriate
39:59 <Damalon01> hmmm? how so Steven, what im reading in reviews seems to indicate the first encounter is a killer
40:24 <Mekkis> I had a blast when I played it
40:25 <Steven> for us it was a matter of asking questions
40:25 <Avatar> it's not impossible
40:47 <Mekkis> with sound tactics, it's definitely survivable
40:54 <Avatar> you had a blast because you didn't have what ended up being an unfair encounter
41:04 <Steven> before we jumped into the tanglebriar we buffed cause we were going into a place where demons are known to be prolific
41:11 <Damalon01> Mekkis I've never read it or played it but it seems very dependant on situational skills. what if your party hasnt got the right skill? do you deserve to die for that?
41:16 <Mekkis> Avatar, I had the same GM that you did
41:31 <Steven> even so two people were down to less than 10 life in the surprise round.
41:31 <Avatar> again, it wasn't the GM's fault
41:50 <Steven> and then we ended it.
41:50 <Mekkis> Damalon01, why yes, there are some scenarios that do heavily penalise you for not having the correct skills.
42:07 <Steven> my frist round Major Persistant Curse
42:07 <Damalon01> i didnt say heavily penalise
42:16 <Avatar> this is a scenario that john compton talked to me about how to correct it
42:18 <Mekkis> and Pathfinders, especially at tier 7+, Should be able to handle that sort of thing
43:02 <Steven> and it was 50% chance to do nothing, was pretty good
43:27 <Damalon01> i dont like how people keep saying 'at level 7+ Pathfinders should be able to hanlde anything' doesnt that depend on the individual training and experiences of the Pathfinder in question?
43:40 <Avatar> yeah I don't like that either
44:01 <Avatar> at level 7 you should be able to handle things at level 5 or lower, maybe
44:15 <Avatar> not just "anything and everything"
44:42 <Damalon01> for example: if you as a Pathfinder have never encountered Undead and you dont have Know (Religion) how would you know how to fight them?
45:06 <Damalon01> the same holds true for Demons
45:22 <Mekkis> The encounter can be tough, but if the group has paid little heed to the need for secrecy then they will face a tougher group (fact). This sort of thing encourages players to create more rounded characters, so I kind of approve (even though it is nasty). There are too many Pathfinder Society characters out there with no business being members of the Pathfinder Society. There are only so many grunt fighter bodyguards needed at the PF Society. Explorers a
45:22 <Mekkis> re needed. Characters who can investigate, spy and make friends are needed.
45:50 <Mekkis> (referring to a different scenario, but still)
45:51 <Steven> at level 7 i usually have my characters able to handle flying, deeper darkness, DR, and stat damage
46:04 <Mekkis> Damalon01, there's the Pathfinder Society Field Guide that covers that
47:01 <Darkkapow> mekkis you probably won't approve of my next pfs character then XP
47:02 <Steven> in addition to the things for 4th and 1st level
47:14 <Mekkis> Darkkapow, that's not my words
47:21 <Mekkis> that's the words of John Deague
47:30 <Damalon01> see i dont agree with that either Steven, i think until your character sees a need for it you shouldnt just assume they know they need that sort of equipment
47:52 <Mekkis> Damalon01, every Pathfinder has been given a copy of the field guide
47:59 <Darkkapow> most scenario's by 7th level
48:08 <Darkkapow> thats 18 scenarios and xp worth of adventure
48:18 <Darkkapow> you should of come across most of them if not all by then
48:20 <Steven> well you can agree with it or not doesnt bother me, my characters have an amazing survival rate compared to most others.
48:54 <Avatar> yeah but you create munchkins
49:23 <Darkkapow> all of my fighters carry things like smelling salts and potions to gtfo or to pick the caster up after they go down if they do.
49:27 <Avatar> why do you think I started trying to take your advice
49:28 <Steven> YAWN!
49:29 <Darkkapow> I don't create munchkins
49:36 <Steven> you guys really need to find another thing to ping me on.
51:16 <Damalon01> lol my characters survive well enough too Steven, havent lost one yet though its come close a couple of times. I dont pack all the stuff you were just talking about.
52:09 <Avatar> the thing is you can pack all that stuff and still die without a chance
52:10 <Mekkis> you can have all the broken stuff in the world, but if you play the character poorly, the character dies
52:14 <Steven> well hope you enjoy that hard counter when you come up against it.
52:23 <Damalon01> Mekkis where in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide does it say Pathfinders know all this stuff?
53:05 <Steven> most pathfinders go through years of training at the grand lodge before they are sent out into the world.
53:05 <Damalon01> im certain something will get me sooner or later Steven but im not gonna meta game to avoid it.
53:17 <Mekkis> p33
53:36 <Damalon01> uh huh and that training should be represented by having the apropriate skills
54:53 <Steven> there is even a blog from paizo
55:28 <Steven> says expect stuff.
55:41 <Avatar> what is on p33 that is relevant
56:34 <Mekkis> Knowledge is a powerful weapon
56:34 <Mekkis> when wielded properly, and the Decemvirate firmly
56:34 <Mekkis> believes this precept. Preparing agents for the perils they
56:34 <Mekkis> may face is the best way to ensure they survive. The Society The Society
56:34 <Mekkis> presents a number of small chapbooks filled with advice
56:34 <Mekkis> on how to deal with the greatest dangers and perils its
56:34 <Mekkis> members might face—taken as a whole, these documents
56:34 <Mekkis> constitute a sort of “field guide” for agents. The remainder
56:34 <Mekkis> of this chapter presents numerous entries taken from these
56:34 <Mekkis> guides
58:10 <Avatar> yeah there is some useful stuff there
03:44 <Damalon01> yeah this is usefull. however if you dont own or have access to this book how would you know? whats more i dont believe its part of the Core Assumption so youd have to own a copy to use that right?
04:24 <Mekkis> Damalon01, naturally
04:46 <Damalon01> so for those players that dont have it, they cant use that knowledge
04:50 <Mekkis> Darkkapow, other than Paizoconoz, are there any other excuses you can provide me to flying to Brisbane?
04:55 <Avatar> GMs wouldn't prompt it most of the time
05:16 <Avatar> especially if you play by the rule "level 7+ should know everything"
07:34 <Damalon01> hehehe
08:08 <Damalon01> i think Pathfinders should get free ranks in all the Knowledge skills to represent this training
08:15 <Mekkis> I don't
08:26 <Mekkis> given that some of the information is incomplete or incorrect
08:43 <Damalon01> then they shouldnt be said to be ready for anything :P
09:37 <Steven> well there are thousands upon thousands of books sitting in the grand library, you're required to read some of them
09:42 <Steven> doesnt mean you've read them all
10:16 <Damalon01> true that Steven, which means you should only really know about the things youve actually paid points for
10:35 <Mekkis> or anything specifically mentioned in the Field Guide
10:42 <Damalon01> that should represent the stuff youve acutally learned
11:06 <Damalon01> if youv actually got the Field Guide Mekkis
11:15 <Mekkis> or stuff that's in the pamphlet you're given when you become a Pathfinder
11:18 <Damalon01> and i mean the player and the character
11:33 <Mekkis> every pathfinder is given it
11:35 <Damalon01> i wwwas never told about a pamplet
11:49 <Damalon01> the shouldnt it part of the core assumption?
12:02 <Damalon01> if every pathfinder is given it?
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16:43 <Steven> as a pathfinder you've been given training, you are aware there are potions of darkvision, fly, lesser resto, alternate materials, all kinds of stuff, and situations where they could be useful.  Knowing it exists is your training coming forth.
17:02 <Damalon01> the fact that the book isnt part of the Core Assumption means to me that its not in fact given to every Pathfinder, that the one of the half truths of the book is that very fact.
18:18 <Damalon01> Steven I think a character should have Knowledges of some sort to proove they have that sort of experience. either that or they have personal experience in some adventure or other. Merely assuming they do becuase they are Pathfinders isnt enough.
18:50 <Steven> no, it is enough.
19:30 <Damalon01> heheh we could argue 'yes it is' 'no it isnt' all day.
19:33 <Avatar> knowing something exists and knowing something is useful in particular situations are very different things
19:56 <Damalon01> indeed Avatar
24:00 <Darkkapow> yes mekkis
24:11 <Darkkapow> you willl need to organize one weekend in may to do so
24:27 <Darkkapow> as we will be doing another games day that you will want to attend
07:37 <Damalon01> seeya later all
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