#d&d - 2013-12-09 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-12-09

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« 2013-12-08 2013-12-10 »
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19:31 <Mekkis> Darkkapow, I have nothing planned, except on Christmas day
59:39 <Steven> suppose i should get off my ass and actually get ready for pfs in an hour
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49:04 * Acentes walks in kicking the cat
50:40 <Acentes> sorry I'm just a little angry right now
12:51 <Acentes> soo
40:52 <Mekkis> what happened, Acentes?
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49:19 <Damalon01> Hi guys
57:40 <Acentes> oh sorry mekkis
57:59 <Acentes> well I was trying to take part of a roll 20 PFS game
59:00 <Acentes> well the dude running decied that well one player was grumping that he wanted to use skype (which my comp can't handle) so everyone had to use skype for voice chat when the others grumped they moved to google hangouts voice which my comp can barely handle
00:17 <Acentes> then I was told "oh no you can't type we need to hear your voice" umm excuse me I have 3 children two of which have school in the morning and there is no way in hell I am gonna open my mouth and potentially wake them up.
02:29 <Acentes> So the GM told me since I refused to follow Society rules for play by roll20 rules which was having access to voice networking systems and using a mic/cam set up I would be reported for being disruptive during an official game (it didn't help that because of the nice weather we are experiencing here in Michigan right now is affecting internet bandwidth
03:14 <Acentes> of course the GM did decide to retort by claiming that maybe i should shut off the bittorrents and I'm trying to find out what the heck a bittorrent is.
06:09 <Damalon01> he means downloading via bit torrent such as limewire
06:22 <Mekkis> Acentes, how old IS your computer?
07:13 <Acentes> whats a limewire ?
07:30 <Acentes> my computer is a 2002 dell optiplex
07:39 <Damalon01> its a program you use to download stuff
08:35 <Acentes> ok and he claimed that because I was bittorrenting (his words) that I was a felon so does that mean downloading is a felony in the USA now?
08:56 <Damalon01> yup pretty much. its a form of piracy.
08:58 <Acentes> because I just downloaded a updated version of yahoo messenger for my computer.
09:34 <Acentes> so I'm a felon for downloading stuff from yahoo?
09:39 <Damalon01> well its piracy when the thing your downloading is copyrighted
10:15 <Damalon01> ie: DLing a movie
10:18 <Mekkis> do you have the link for the game you wanted to join?
10:49 <Acentes> what the blazes isn't yahoo copyrighted?
11:29 <Acentes> mekkis sent you the link
12:38 <Damalon01> i believe Yahoo is copyrighted but you might find that permission is likely given to DL messenger. Least I hope it is.
13:41 <Damalon01> I think yer GM was being a bit harsh. I certainly think he was assuming you were DLing.
14:40 <Damalon01> Probably the only reason he could think of that explains why your comp couldnt handle Voip.
15:13 <Acentes> i give up honestly
15:25 <Acentes> i'll stick to pbem and pbp
46:43 <Acentes> actually does anyone know how I can get ahold of a copy of the Seige from season 5?
47:12 <Acentes> I have about 15 or so players at my local GS to run it for them 
48:00 <Mekkis> Acentes: the way I see it, is that if the GM requires you to use voice chat, which the GM is welcome to do, then if you refuse to, regardless of circumstances, then you're disrupting the game.
48:03 <Mekkis> one reason why a relatively modern computer lacks bandwidth is because of p2p downloading, like bittorrent, which is rather common, thus the request to turn it off
48:06 <Mekkis> I am rather surprised that you are using a 11 year old computer...
50:05 <Acentes> whats so surprising that I am using a old machine?
50:41 <Mekkis> I've thrown younger machines away...
51:07 <Acentes> Waste not
51:39 <Mekkis> it's not a waste, if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do.
52:05 <Acentes> this computer does do what I need it to
52:12 <Acentes> so please don't insult me 
52:43 <Mekkis> I have played pathfinder online, including skype, on a four-year-old nokia phone...
53:13 <Acentes> but as long as my computer does what I need it to do on a DAILY basis then it is not a waste unlike others who are keen to throw their money at the machines with flashy features
53:35 <Acentes> my job and certainly my children don't require my computer to use google hangouts 
54:37 <Mekkis> suppose I came to your table, and refused to speak to you during your game. You can't claim that wouldn't be disruptive...
55:05 <Acentes> if you had an inability to speak I would make concessions
55:18 <Acentes> certainly given the fact that I can't speak
55:33 <Mekkis> you literally can't speak?
55:54 <Acentes> to quote my children me talking sounds like someone talking through a muffled blown bass speaker
56:24 <Acentes> while some co-workers can understand I prefer to let my hands do the talking
57:31 <Mekkis> that's considerably different to blaming your computer for not handling VOIP, you know...
58:05 <Acentes> ever heard of the embarrassment factor 
58:11 <s_gmusic> if you didn't speak, but was capable of at least writing down what you say and do, then you do have a valid form of communication. I believe the situation was mishandled, and a better way to go about it would've been to ask the rest of the group if they were opposed to Acentes typing instead of talking, then go from there, not threaten to report him for disruptive behavior.
59:25 <s_gmusic> if the game hadn't even started yet, then there was time to work it all out. if it was mid-game and everyone's like "What's he doing?" and -then- it came out he couldn't talk with them, then I could understand some hostility
59:39 <Mekkis> Acentes, before I knew about that condition, I would also say you were 'disruptive', if only because you joined a game knowing that voice chat was required, without explaining it to the GM
01:25 <Acentes> hence why I prefer to do online/play by post/home games or games at the center where I know ASL is a common language for people there being around people who don't sign and wanting to play Pathfinder does make the game harder 
02:26 <Mekkis> hell, if you joined one of my games, and said you weren't using voice chat because your computer couldn't handle it, I'd start by trying to fix your computer, sending me barking up the wrong tree.
03:14 <Mekkis> I'm fine with a player or two communicating over IRC, using text, but it's good to have the whole picture
03:33 <Acentes> Mekkis again its the embarrassing factor
04:45 <Acentes> Its alot of embarrassment for me as well as a pride thing I don't want people to think they have to treat me like a prize jewel in their crown follow?
05:42 <Mekkis> sure. Keep in mind that everyone here is likely over 10,000km away, wouldn't recognise you if they met you on the street, and really is a member of the rpg-playing minority...
06:13 * Acentes shrugs
06:36 <Mekkis> but you still should have explained something to the GM before signing up for the game; I can understand his frustration.
07:27 <Acentes> when I signed up there was no mention of VoiP usage
07:32 <Acentes> just roll20
09:16 <Mekkis> I've never used roll20: I wouldn't know.
09:40 <Damalon01> rolld20 has Voip build in but it isnt very good
10:01 <Damalon01> most people use Skype or Google hangouts
10:42 <Damalon01> i think the GM assumed youd be ok with that. Was the game part of a larger group? like the Iron Helixx crew?
10:57 <Acentes> not that I am aware
11:41 <Damalon01> well the reason I mention this is that the Iron Helixx crew has it on their website, all players must have the ability to use Voip
12:49 <Acentes> so back to an earlier question of mine away from my troubles
13:34 <Mekkis> mmmm?
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14:33 <Acentes> Sorry about that
14:41 <Alynn> hello all
15:45 <Acentes> my question was who do I need to contact about running the seige of the diamond city for the hearing impaired center group I have I know the local VL is iffy on doing any events at the Center 
16:46 <Mekkis> I would send an email direct to [email protected]
19:22 <Acentes> ty Mekkis
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36:29 <Alynn> has anyone ran a Forgotten Realms game using pathfinder before?
37:45 <Damalon01> no but i think itd work quite wwwell
38:12 <Damalon01> i was thinking about running Eberron with Pathfinder
38:29 <Alynn> I have just been in the mood to work on my drow character
38:35 <Alynn> and made me wonder about FR
50:19 <Mekkis> I have, actually
50:24 <Mekkis> only had two sessions though
53:23 <Alynn> oh?
53:31 <Alynn> did they work well?
53:58 <Mekkis> well enough
54:34 <Avatar> Damalon01: saw your post on the sexism thread
54:50 <Avatar> pretty hilarious how it was taken so badly out of context by almost everyone
58:24 <Damalon01> lol
58:28 <Damalon01> yeah
58:54 <Damalon01> i probably should have said it was short sighted instead of hypocritical
59:00 <Damalon01> but really its both
00:24 <Damalon01> how women are depicted in fantasy fiction is a pet peeve of mine :P
02:04 <Avatar> yeah I'm pretty sure what you said added to the topic rather than deviated from it
02:30 <Avatar> it's obviously an extremely sensitive topic, especially since people got all retarded about it and it got locked
02:53 <Damalon01> yeah unfortunately the nature of text based converstaions is such that its easy to be misinterpretted
02:59 <Avatar> it's a shame because it was actually good to talk about
03:05 <CWheezy> holy shit some of the pathfinder art is really bad
03:08 <CWheezy> the oracle is TERRIBLE
03:30 <CWheezy> sometimes women wear dresses like that, if they want
03:41 <Damalon01> hehehe! ever look at the pics for the Witch or Seoni? holy gawd
03:42 <CWheezy> yeah sure but not while adventuring oor on a boat, like in skull and shackles
04:54 <Avatar> I've usually always completely ignored the artwork
05:05 <Avatar> jesus, seoni
05:33 <Avatar> actually maybe it was your post about the artwork that got the thread locked
05:53 <Avatar> bit of a no-win situation for them I think
05:54 <Damalon01> yeah Avatar, me too but Im just concerned about the impact of the art as a marketing tool. Are they selling role playing? or are they selling the objectification of women?
06:29 <Avatar> yeah it's not good
06:39 <Avatar> I'm not suggesting it's okay because I ignore the artwork
06:42 <Avatar> I've just never noticed
07:34 <Damalon01> yah im not saying 'your bad'. Im saying its reinforcing a message, one i think about sometimes and worry about.
07:42 <CWheezy> yeah the which is really bad
07:52 <CWheezy> well it was someone who works for paizo saying it was fine
07:53 <Damalon01> i know a few female rpgers and love having them at the table
07:56 <CWheezy> it is obviously not fine
09:01 <Avatar> I think seoni is worse than the witch
09:07 <Avatar> by an order of magnitude
09:18 <Avatar> she has more skin than clothing
09:25 <Damalon01> Yeah Seoni is prolly the worst
09:48 <Damalon01> the Paladin is usually fine in pics
10:16 <Damalon01> tho i question why her armour has actual breasts on it, seem impracticle
11:09 <Damalon01> needless to say i think too much :P
16:00 <CWheezy> yeah breast armor never existed
16:24 <Damalon01> chainmail bikini's are worse :P
20:09 <Damalon01> What did you think about my point about suspension of disbelief and the commonality of high strength female characters Avatar?
21:14 <Avatar> I didn't really understand it
21:32 <Damalon01> hmmm its hard to explain clearly
21:33 <Avatar> I was too focused on the rest of the posts saying that you were an insensitive fool
21:52 <Damalon01> i am an insensitive fool :P
21:55 <Avatar> were you actually suggesting it's hard to believe 15 str 15 cha isn't plausible
22:08 <Avatar> don't let them make you think that
22:25 <Damalon01> no i am suggesting that high strength female character shouldnt be common
22:40 <Avatar> don't think you can really control what's common
22:55 <Avatar> you can control what's plausible, I think that's all they were really talking about
23:01 <Damalon01> trudat, cant control that sort of thing in PFS
23:11 <Avatar> I don't think any of the APG classes were meant to be common, but they are
23:33 <Damalon01> thats true too :) Ive seen so many Ninja
23:43 <Damalon01> despite them being invisible
23:48 <Avatar> haha
23:53 <Avatar> only when they're on your bad side
25:34 <Damalon01> someone said to me that Rogues are considered sub-par due to Ninja and Archaeologist Bards and such. That seems wrong to me.
26:02 <Damalon01> i dont think any class should be sub-par.
26:03 <Avatar> I wish sneak attack did d8 damage instead of d6
26:23 <Avatar> I don't know the mechanics of a rogue well enough to know if it matches up for sure
26:28 <Damalon01> maybe rogues should have a rogue tirck to upgrade sneak attack?
26:39 <Avatar> I think it can but they need to be handled very carefully
27:17 <Avatar> I think you need d8 by default
27:26 <Avatar> maybe upgrading it from there with a rogue talent
27:32 <Damalon01> well at the time the points made to me were tha Ninja get better stealth bonuses and equal sneak attack while archaeologists are equal if not better at traps
28:10 <Avatar> rogues are better at traps I think
28:15 <CWheezy> sneak attack as a d8 isn't really important
28:30 <CWheezy> wizards can actually be better if they want
28:35 <CWheezy> lol aram zey's spell focus
28:43 <Avatar> the damage has to meet up with the vulnerability
28:51 <Avatar> +d6 every second level is too low
29:05 <Avatar> !roll 5d6
29:05 <dicebot> Avatar, 5d6: [5d6=6,1,2,2,5] 16
29:13 <Avatar> 16 damage at level 9 ?
29:33 <Damalon01> i remember sneak attack in 3.0/3.5 dnd. Pathfinder is a vast improvement.
29:38 <CWheezy> plus other damage
29:43 <CWheezy> average is
29:53 <CWheezy> 17.5
30:07 <Avatar> let's call it 19
30:17 <Avatar> still a joke with light armor vs the fighter
30:25 <Damalon01> :)
30:28 <CWheezy> you can do real damage with them
30:32 <Avatar> traps and social skills are a weak caveat
30:33 <CWheezy> no bonus to hit really hurts them
30:38 <CWheezy> and really bad tricks really hurt them
30:44 <CWheezy> when their best trick is combat trick
30:47 <CWheezy> *talent
30:49 <Damalon01> hey someone who thing fighters are a strong class!
30:54 <Mekkis> I think sneak attack should start at 2d6, increase by 1d6 per level, with the stipulation that only one sneak attack is permitted per round
31:27 <CWheezy> I am not sure that actually helps them
31:31 <CWheezy> they are fine low level
31:35 <CWheezy> but then they scale a lot worse
31:37 <Mekkis> how so?
31:43 <Damalon01> thats what 4th edition DND did Mekkis
31:47 <Mekkis> what do you mean they scale a lot worse?
31:52 <Mekkis> Damalon01, no it didn't
32:03 <Damalon01> well not the +1d6 per level increase
32:08 <Mekkis> it started at 2d6, increased to 3d6 at 11th, then 5d6 at 21st
32:09 <Mekkis> that's it
32:13 <Avatar> the problem with "start at 2d6" is it's too easy for dips
32:34 <CWheezy> 1d6 only once means worse scaling with iterative attacks
34:02 <Mekkis> CWheezy, rogues already don't scale with iterative attacks
34:14 <Damalon01> i liked 4th ed >.>
34:25 <Mekkis> shooting a bow? You get sneak attack only on the first attack. Move up and flank? only get one attack
34:41 <Mekkis> invisibility? Only on your first attack, mate
34:46 <Damalon01> fights took too long but otherwise it was good
35:04 <Mekkis> Great, Damalon01. Can I sell you my 4e core rulebooks?
35:09 <Mekkis> only used twice!
35:14 <Mekkis> First edition!
35:17 <Damalon01> ive alreaady got them :P
35:22 <Mekkis> :'(
35:34 <CWheezy> hmmmm
35:44 <CWheezy> it is directly false they don't scale with iterative attacks
35:52 <CWheezy> moving applies to every martial
36:22 <Avatar> is it false or directly false though
36:28 <Damalon01> two words on rogues iterative attacks: Improved Invisibility
36:33 <Mekkis> sure, but you don't need to move to get into a flanking position
36:48 <Avatar> improved invis doesn't come until years later though
36:54 <Damalon01> ok
37:04 <Damalon01> Tiefling using Darkness
37:05 <Mekkis> rogues can't cast improved invis
37:23 <Damalon01> the can cast it if the have Use Magic device and a scroll
37:25 <CWheezy> you can get an item to make smoke and smoke goggles
37:35 <CWheezy> also there are other invisibility items
37:38 <Mekkis> sure, so activate item, move up. Enemy moves away.
37:45 <CWheezy> like the full withdrawl ring
38:03 <Mekkis> so, you end your turn adjacent to the enemy
38:06 <CWheezy> ok?
38:13 <CWheezy> you can still do nothing
38:17 <Mekkis> the enemy responds by full-attacking your lightly-armoured arse
38:45 <CWheezy> while invisible here, or concealed by smoke?
38:55 <CWheezy> I forget how this is happening
39:06 <CWheezy> still unrelated to tricks being awful and no static to hit
39:07 <Damalon01> heheh this is a paper, rock, scissors, lizard, spock arguement. no one wins. :P
39:07 <Mekkis> there are two problems with sneak attack. The first is that you spend a lot of effort pulling it off, and at the end of the day, you're not doing any more damage than the two-weapon fighter's power attack.
39:21 <CWheezy> it is fine that fighters to the most damage
39:29 <CWheezy> also I have a rogue that averages 100 dpr at 10
39:43 <Avatar> rogues can get invisibility by 4th level can't they, with ki pool and the ninja trick
39:57 <CWheezy> yeah they can
40:06 <Mekkis> The second is that it doesn't do what a player who isn't familiar with Pathfinder/D&D thinks it can do.
40:21 <Avatar> that's less relevant
40:22 <Mekkis> aka Sneak up behind someone and Slit Their Throat
40:24 <Damalon01> you can be a Tiefling at first level and use Darkness to get sneak attacks
40:41 <Avatar> any player who doesn't know how their class works can suck at it
41:08 <Mekkis> Avatar, it may be less relevant, but tell that to the player who's taken a rogue with that idea to 6th level, before they realise it
41:15 <CWheezy> you can even get pit sight and attack in deeper darkness
42:09 <Avatar> you can tell that to the player who's taken a sorcerer with shitty spells
42:14 <Avatar> or a witch with shitty hexes
42:15 <Mekkis> CWheezy, I would make an advanced talent to allow a second sneak attack...
42:33 <Avatar> we're assuming you know how the class works
42:33 <Mekkis> The sorcerer can correct his spells, over time. The witch can take more hexes.
42:55 <Avatar> the rogue can take more talents and adjust his tactics
43:18 <CWheezy> oh great a talent to do what old rogues could do
43:23 <CWheezy> you can optimize a rogue to do fine dpr
43:33 <Mekkis> CWheezy, how so?
43:46 <Avatar> what could the old rogues do
43:52 <CWheezy> sneak attack on every attack
43:57 <Mekkis> does the rogue end up with three levels of fighter, two of ranger, and four of Some Prestige Class
44:29 <Mekkis> Show me said `optimised' rogue
45:00 <CWheezy> yeah sure
45:07 <CWheezy> uhhh I have to find it
52:11 <CWheezy> ugh searching in the forums is awful
52:49 <CWheezy> http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qcif&page=7?Ladies-and-Gentlemen-Its-time-we-made-the#304
53:00 <CWheezy> the corrected rogue, to account for having shatter defenses
54:57 <CWheezy> first round is full withdraw, going invisible from the wrong and summoning a bunch of fake mes
55:23 <CWheezy> next is enforcing intimidating which is mostly successful, doing big damage as he becomes flatfooted
56:33 <Avatar> do you think you can withdraw even when not threatened
56:39 <CWheezy> yes
56:41 <CWheezy> why not?
57:01 <Avatar> because you're not really withdrawing, you're just moving
57:57 <Avatar> I had a decoy ring and wasn't able to use it in exactly the same way you're thinking of
57:59 <CWheezy> it is a special type of full round action
58:06 <CWheezy> not special
58:09 <CWheezy> just a full round action
58:17 <Avatar> yeah, when you're threatened
59:03 <CWheezy> it doesn't actually say that
59:04 <Avatar> I can see it both ways, but I don't think the intent of the item is to activate it whenever you move
59:12 <CWheezy> it doesn't
59:17 <CWheezy> it is spending a full round to go invisible
00:36 <CWheezy> you can still withdraw against invisible enemies, they get AoO's against you
00:59 <CWheezy> even though it is possible to not know they are beside you
02:48 <CWheezy> anyway even without decoy ring you can still mostly do it
02:59 <CWheezy> just don't walk up to the bad guy, intimidate from a reasonable range
08:30 <CWheezy> also that rogue's saves are at least not total trash
08:45 <CWheezy> oh yeah that is another problem, trash saves
08:54 <CWheezy> they should at least have good saves
08:57 <CWheezy> good will saves
25:32 Alynn has quit (Quit: Take my advice. I don't use it anyway)
45:22 <Mekkis> !item decoy ring
45:28 <diebot> Mekkis, DECOY RING [moderate illusion] CL:11 ring 12000gp, 0lb
45:28 <diebot> This ring is a thick loop of mirrorlike metal. Whenever the wearer of this ring takes the withdraw action or becomes helpless (including falling unconscious), it instantly makes her invisible for 3 rounds and creates four illusory duplicates that either run off in opposite directions or perform other plausible actions that could draw enemy
45:28 <diebot> attention away from her. The duplicates last for 3 rounds before disappearing, but they instantly pop out of existence if struck by an attack (AC 10) and can be disbelieved (Will DC 19). Allies of the wearer always know her true location and can freely provide aid or assistance to her. Source: Ultimate Equipment
04:55 boris ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
21:27 Brunius ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
50:23 <Avatar> http://www.reddit.com/r/offmychest/comments/1jatvd/i_am_not_proud_of_my_son/
03:25 <CWheezy> wow that seems pretty terrible
03:33 <CWheezy> I guess it is not an accomplishment to clean yourself up
03:45 <CWheezy> many people on drugs agree, it is no problem
03:56 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
04:02 <Steven> its done
04:12 <Steven> all i need to do is report and i'm finished completely
04:15 <CWheezy> lol
04:20 <CWheezy> I guess they had no fault in parenting
04:28 <CWheezy> apparently they couldn't find a therapist who was good?
06:15 <CWheezy> oh nvm it got worse
06:36 <Avatar> yeah
07:23 <CWheezy> hmmm
07:28 <CWheezy> sociopathy is very powerful
09:12 <Steven> and tastes like cheese
09:37 <CWheezy> hmmmm, it is hard to even think about what it is like to not be able to feel
10:20 <Steven> Munster
25:18 Alynn ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
32:21 <Steven> so avatar hows it goin? kickin ass taken names?
33:32 <Avatar> that's pretty much how it is really
33:48 <Alynn> hello all
33:55 <Avatar> Alynn
34:44 Gamera ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
35:24 <Alynn> yes?
35:46 <Steven> kick ass!
36:01 <Steven> so, i got an Undine boon... again...
36:43 <Verloren> :<
36:47 <Verloren> I want one
40:47 <Damalon01> You can trade boons cant you Steven?
41:01 <Steven> yup
41:05 <Steven> you can trade them boons.
41:41 <Damalon01> So if you have something Steven wants you could trade for it Verloren
42:11 <Damalon01> Just sayin'
43:15 <Steven> alright, im goin to sleep, i've been at the shop more hours than ive slept the last 5 days.
46:05 Steven has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
54:01 <Verloren> I've played exactly one game, so I don't have anything like that
54:45 <Alynn> what do these boons do anyways?
55:44 <Verloren> let you pick races that aren't the usual
55:57 <Verloren> Undine's my favorite race, so naturally I want one but
56:36 <Alynn> ah
56:41 <Alynn> like drow?
57:51 <Avatar> the ones available are the featured races in the advanced race guide
58:02 <Avatar> drow isn't one of them and I think they've said never will be
58:11 <Avatar> they don't like drow very much
58:24 <Alynn> I see
58:24 <CWheezy> I don't think drow even exist on golarion or something?
58:28 <Alynn> the do
58:31 <Alynn> they*
58:38 <Verloren> drow in golarion are Always Chaotic Evil, and PFS is Good-Only
58:42 <Verloren> well
58:44 <Alynn> I see
58:46 <Verloren> good or neutral
58:57 <Verloren> from what I've read on the subject
59:25 <Verloren> same goes to the half elf stuff that emulates a half drow, seems to have been banned from PFS as them saying 'this isn't a thing that happens in this setting'
59:36 <Avatar> goblins are a boon race
59:41 <Avatar> if you can get one of the 20? in the world
00:14 <Verloren> huh
03:10 <Avatar> huh
14:25 <CWheezy> they are actually very strong
14:39 <CWheezy> goblins are that is
17:42 <Avatar> really?
29:59 <CWheezy> yes
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