// #d&d — 2011-12-14
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01:13:25 MekkisScreen ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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07:20:07 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: Sat 10am (Mekkis) | CoTE: Sun 10am || All times AEDT (UTC+11:00), CONFIRM YOUR ATTENDANCE | http://dnd.ballig.net/newbie_guide.htm
07:20:07 Topic for #d&d set by Ballig at Sun Dec 4 10:32:25 2011
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09:49:06 <Mekkis> I have issues with the pathfinder feat system
09:53:10 <Mekkis> like there are all these feats that do things off crits
10:11:57 <Avatar> are you sleeptyping again
10:12:04 <Mekkis> nope
10:12:07 <Mekkis> I'm here
10:12:17 <Avatar> what do you mean like there are all these feats that do things off crits
10:12:22 <Avatar> is that in response to something
10:12:29 <Mekkis> <Mekkis> I have issues with the pathfinder feat system
10:12:48 <Avatar> didn't see you say that
10:12:59 <Mekkis> yeah... blame wireless internet
10:13:12 <Avatar> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshuafrost/quantum-roleplaying-game-an-all-new-science-fantas/posts/150993
10:13:38 <Mekkis> is that another guy's attempt to write a system?
10:15:53 <Avatar> it's josh frost
10:16:02 <Mekkis> ah
10:16:06 <Mekkis> interesting
10:16:17 <Avatar> haha
10:16:42 <Mekkis> strange how he didn't list his Paizo experience on there
10:17:12 <Mekkis> what's your opinion on it?
10:17:24 <Avatar> it'd have to be a lot like pathfinder for me to check it out at all
10:17:44 <Avatar> I don't have much faith in new systems
10:18:08 <Avatar> I love kickstarter
10:22:33 <Mekkis> haven't looked at it before
10:31:33 <Mekkis> a lot of the stuff on there seems rather shitty
13:57:16 <MekkisScreen> oh no
13:57:33 <MekkisScreen> the Spaceshot_tm2_ have found me !
14:07:33 <Avatar> that works a little better with sachiru
14:49:20 <MekkisScreen> a little
16:18:27 <MekkisScreen> a ballig appears!
16:45:38 <Thelen> you try to capture it with your pokeball but it evades!
17:10:02 <MekkisScreen> that happens
17:15:05 <Thelen> indeed
17:15:33 <Thelen> anyone know for sure what you need to backup in a VPS to restore it to another one? apparently you don't want to do / cos of dev and proc
17:20:26 <***> Buffer Playback...
17:20:26 <***> Playback Complete.
17:20:36 <Thelen> Mekkis current restored data is in /vz/private/101 and im using the config of a new vps i just made, but it crashes the node. so need to just mv some of the directories not everything i think
17:21:32 <Mekkis> as I said, /etc and /home are all that are REALLY required
17:21:48 <Mekkis> (plus /var or /srv depending on your daemon configurations)
17:22:21 <Thelen> it has whmcs
17:22:30 <Thelen> so /var/www/ and a sql db
17:22:49 <Mekkis> (I like using /srv for my server-related stuff
17:27:03 <Mekkis> but using mv for backups... isn't that a bit... risky?
17:27:15 <Mekkis> wouldn't something like dump or rsync be better?
17:27:23 <Thelen> i dumped the backup
17:27:25 <Thelen> and restored it
17:27:28 <Thelen> but it dun boot
17:27:30 <Thelen> crashes the host
17:27:38 <Mekkis> crashes the host?!
17:27:42 <Thelen> yea :/
17:27:48 <Thelen> so i have a new container, need to move everything into it
17:28:00 <Thelen> further to that, what logs would explain why its crashing?
17:28:08 <Mekkis> what virtualisation are you using?
17:28:08 <Avatar> where are bonuses for deities listed
17:28:14 <Mekkis> they're not
17:28:18 <Thelen> openvz
17:28:19 <Mekkis> they're in Gods And Magic
17:28:28 <Mekkis> not sure
17:28:40 <Mekkis> my experience with openvz is as the user of two VPSes
17:28:43 <Avatar> only magic bonuses?
17:29:07 <Mekkis> one from Santrex (yuck), the other from valueserver.de (which is quite nice)
17:29:13 <Mekkis> I prefer xen
17:30:51 <Thelen> santrex sucks yea
17:30:58 <Thelen> valuservers is ok
17:31:14 <Thelen> i'd use xen if i could find a good guidfe for it
17:31:26 <Mekkis> do you host?
17:33:35 <MekkisScreen> foo@de:~$ uptime 10:33:18 up 393 days, 12:39, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
17:44:15 <Thelen> yes i host
17:44:15 <Thelen> that's some pretty sweet uptime :D
17:44:21 <Mekkis> where?
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17:44:28 <Mekkis> (what are your prices?_
17:45:28 <Avatar> might make up a rogue or a ninja
17:45:42 <Mekkis> (that box doesn't host anything except lighttpd
17:45:43 <Avatar> Uptime: 4wks 2days 15hrs 25mins 22secs
17:45:44 <Mekkis> )
17:45:52 <Ballig> twitch
17:45:52 <Thelen> er
17:45:52 <Avatar> shit I should reboot
17:45:52 <twitch> Ballig:
17:45:52 <Thelen> http://www.customseedbox.com/virtual.html is new site
17:45:52 <Avatar> it's twitch, do something!
17:45:52 <Ballig> twitch:
17:45:52 <Thelen> i also have 10gbit plans in the works
17:46:03 <twitch> I agree with Avatar1
17:46:03 <twitch> !!
17:46:14 <Thelen> Mekkis ah yea that'd explain the uptime :D ksplice though ;)
17:46:34 <Mekkis> I pay €0 per month for it!
17:46:59 <Mekkis> where are they located (your servers?)
17:47:26 <Thelen> nice
17:47:31 <Thelen> the prices are quite high otherwise
17:47:31 <Thelen> but u pay for quality :D
17:47:31 <Thelen> france primarily, but am trying to do uk/nl/de/us as well
17:48:34 <Thelen> having trouble finding providers that are a similar price thanks to HDD price increase
17:49:41 <Mekkis> are those prices in euro?
17:50:11 <MekkisScreen> Thelen: you CAN do /
17:50:21 <MekkisScreen> what tool are you using?
17:53:33 <Mekkis> really?
17:53:39 <Mekkis> those prices look very low
17:58:03 <Mekkis> I can believe that
17:58:13 <Mekkis> how much do you oversell?
17:58:57 <Thelen> 0
18:00:53 <Mekkis> if you offer IPv6, I might try one of your VPSes
18:01:15 <Thelen> i got no idea how to configure that :D
18:01:30 <Thelen> lemme check the interface
18:01:38 <Mekkis> hmmm 1780 mWh
18:01:44 <Mekkis> might need to shutdown
18:01:48 <Thelen> XD
18:13:32 <Thelen> no idea mate
18:13:39 <Thelen> mv?
18:13:58 <Avatar> man choosing a ninja name is tough
18:14:10 <Thelen> Tarava?
18:14:26 <Avatar> sounds feminine
18:14:32 <Thelen> Ravata
18:14:42 <Avatar> also feminine
18:14:49 <Ballig> Jewjitsew
18:14:52 <Thelen> :D
18:14:53 <Avatar> haha
18:14:59 <Thelen> the israelie ninja!
18:15:40 <Avatar> I am seriously considering naming it after people I use to work with
18:15:44 <Avatar> they all had ninja sounding names
18:17:06 <Thelen> XDXD
18:17:07 <Thelen> eample?
18:17:22 <Avatar> Rendi, Toro, Monchu
18:18:08 <Thelen> Toro
18:18:13 <Thelen> Monchu
18:18:14 <Thelen> epic lulz
18:18:23 <Thelen> Toro, the mexican ninja!
18:18:34 <Avatar> maybe I'll use Toro as a first name and Monchu as a second
18:18:49 <Avatar> I didn't particularly want to use those names because I don't want to be reminded of them
18:18:53 <Thelen> yea
18:18:56 <Thelen> google ninja names >_>
18:18:58 <Avatar> but Toro is relatively generic anyway
18:19:01 <Avatar> I did
18:19:04 <Thelen> ah
18:19:05 <Avatar> came up with garbage names
18:19:09 <Avatar> a lot of anime garbage
18:19:17 <Avatar> one of them was Hatori Hanzo
18:19:20 <Thelen> XD
18:19:21 <Avatar> I mean cmon, originality
18:35:52 <***> Buffer Playback...
18:35:52 <***> Playback Complete.
18:36:36 <Mekkis> Thelen, a fair amount of disk space and IPv6
18:47:03 <Avatar> maybe I should dip into gunslinger
18:47:17 <Avatar> that would solve a lot of problems
18:49:38 <Ballig> like what problems
18:50:08 <Avatar> [19:08] <MekkisScreen> and if you intend to flank an opponent, you need to end your turn next to him - which means surviving a full attack
18:50:46 <Avatar> [19:09] <Avatar> I was thinking of going two weapon fighitng
18:50:46 <Avatar> [19:09] <Avatar> can't with a low dex
18:52:16 <Ballig> how will gunslinger let you go two weapon fighting
18:53:31 <Avatar> I don't need to go two weapon fighting when I have guns
18:54:19 <Avatar> nobody noticed my second point paste is out
18:54:25 <Avatar> point buy paste
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18:54:31 <Ballig> then the problem that you want to solve isn't "having two weapon fighting"
18:54:35 <Ballig> what's the problem you want to solve
18:54:47 <Avatar> the low dex
18:54:54 <Avatar> I won't need to for that
18:54:55 <Ballig> gunslinger will raies your dex?
18:55:03 <Avatar> no, gunslingers don't need a high dex
18:55:08 <Ballig> then low dex isn't the problem
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18:55:13 <Avatar> read the whole thing
18:55:13 <Ballig> what problem are you trying to solve?
18:55:15 <Avatar> then talk
18:56:06 <Ballig> I've read it
18:56:07 <Ballig> you haven't said what the problem is
18:56:22 <Avatar> the whole thing is the problem
18:56:26 <Ballig> that's not specific
18:56:31 <Avatar> correct
18:56:37 <Ballig> I'm asking for specifics
18:56:52 <Avatar> read above
18:56:57 <Ballig> I'm saying "what is the problem" not "are there problems"
18:57:07 <Avatar> I went into detail earlier
18:57:28 <Ballig> no you didn't
18:57:33 <Ballig> you said you wanted two weapon fighting
18:57:46 <Ballig> having gunslinger won't solve the problem of getting two weapon fighting
18:57:47 <Avatar> is that all you read, because there was more there than that
18:59:59 <Ballig> I don't think you know what the problem is
19:00:00 <Ballig> you're just clutching at solutions
19:00:01 <Ballig> it's how you get an ineffective character
19:00:21 <Avatar> when I was deciding on what class to pick
19:00:25 <Avatar> I kept going between
19:00:43 <Avatar> fighter-type build, lance, mount, mounted charge, no thanks
19:01:16 <Avatar> spellcaster, I've already got Cairo as a cleric, so no cleric or oracle, especially not oracle because lol
19:01:16 <Avatar> not summoner, that's too complicated, I've already got Mellon, and sorcerer is too similar
19:01:19 <Avatar> not pistolero, because that's too similar to Buck
19:01:42 <Avatar> alchemist was a bit too complicated or too similar to a spellcaster
19:01:43 <Ballig> these sound like all the solutions you've clutched at
19:01:56 <Avatar> the character is the problem
19:02:03 <Avatar> the specific here was what class do I choose
19:02:10 <Ballig> so the problem is that you don't have a focus for the character?
19:02:16 <Avatar> the only thing I hadn't really played yet was a rogue or a ninja
19:02:27 <Avatar> I guess
19:02:41 <Avatar> I went with ninja because it was more different than rogue
19:02:59 <Ballig> well, class is only part of your character focus
19:03:04 <Ballig> you want a stealthing melee sneak attack character?
19:03:27 <Avatar> I want to use take full advantage of the ki pool I think
19:03:38 <Ballig> what sort of things does ki let you do?
19:03:43 <Avatar> turn invisible
19:04:04 <Ballig> okay, how will gunslinger assist with that?
19:04:07 <Avatar> sneak attack
19:04:23 <Ballig> you can sneak attack without gunslinger
19:04:24 <Avatar> and my stats aren't really particularly high
19:04:31 <Avatar> since I am putting a lot into charisma
19:04:45 <Avatar> well mekkis was talking about an 18 str
19:05:01 <Avatar> I was thinking two weapon fighting, but that's not really necessary
19:05:09 <Ballig> isn't the majority of damage meant to come from the sneak damage
19:05:11 <Avatar> I can't wear full plate, light armour only
19:05:18 <Ballig> is it invisibility or greater invisibility
19:05:25 <Avatar> invisibility
19:05:30 <Ballig> so how will two weapon fighting help
19:05:31 <Avatar> greater invisibility is a 20th level thing
19:05:33 <Ballig> you'll become visible after the first attack
19:05:40 <Ballig> and the second attack will no longer be a sneak attack
19:05:45 <Avatar> it'll help because I can go invisible again
19:05:52 <MekkisScreen> or is this just my way of saying that roguish classes will never work until they get their shit regarding stealth fixed
19:05:53 <Ballig> not between attacks
19:05:55 <Avatar> yes between attacks
19:05:59 <Ballig> how so?
19:06:06 <Avatar> it's a swift action
19:06:16 <Avatar> I can't be invisible, attack invisible
19:06:23 <Ballig> I don't know that you can take a swift action in between attacks during a full round attack
19:06:41 <Avatar> pretty sure you can
19:06:50 <Ballig> okay
19:06:51 <Avatar> swift was only created to allow 1 'free action'
19:08:03 <MekkisScreen> and if you intend to flank an opponent, you need to end your turn next to him - which means surviving a full attack
19:08:29 <Avatar> I was thinking of going two weapon fighitng
19:08:34 <Avatar> can't with a low dex
19:08:56 <MekkisScreen> then have 13 dex
19:09:04 <Avatar> or sorry, maybe I should use a lance and mount
19:09:12 <Avatar> and mounted charge etc
19:09:12 <Thelen> XD
19:09:14 <MekkisScreen> or take a one-level dip of synthesist
19:09:36 <Avatar> I did have a look at choosing synthesist summoner
19:09:40 <Avatar> my mind nearly exploded
19:09:47 <Avatar> who the hell wrote that class
19:10:04 <Avatar> egads, who the hell would play that class?
19:10:04 <MekkisScreen> summoner is more powerful than synthesist....)
19:10:17 <MekkisScreen> Nightmare's a synthesist
19:10:23 <MekkisScreen> as is Xanian
19:10:29 <Avatar> indeed
19:10:41 <Avatar> I get 2 feats at 1st level, but don't get my ki pool until level 2
19:10:48 <Avatar> maybe I should take extra ki twice
19:10:54 <MekkisScreen> synthesist ninja could work
19:10:55 <Ballig> haha
19:11:22 <Avatar> although going for spring attack is probably not an awful idea
19:11:25 <Avatar> 18 str feels overkill
19:11:36 <Avatar> I'm sacrificing too much to put an 18 there
19:11:38 <MekkisScreen> quadropod with arms, pounce and reach
19:12:00 <Avatar> I'm not building a quadropod with reach
19:12:10 <Avatar> man what is wrong with you
19:12:22 <MekkisScreen> hey
19:12:28 <Thelen> XDXD
19:12:36 <MekkisScreen> you're the one trying to build a ninja!
19:12:45 <Avatar> yeah, not a demented alien ninja from hell
19:12:57 <Ballig> which trick is invisibility
19:12:58 <Avatar> I had a nice normal character 5 minutes ago
19:13:03 <MekkisScreen> that sounds pretty cool
19:13:13 <Ballig> ahh vanishing
19:13:18 <Mekkis> it is
19:13:28 <MekkisScreen> a demented alien ninja from hell
19:13:28 <Mekkis> you get one attack on a spring attack
19:13:28 <Avatar> Vanishing Trick (Su): The ninja can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility. Using this ability is a swift action. The ninja can use this ability once per day for free. Each additional use of this ability uses up 1 ki point.
19:13:34 <Thelen> XD
19:13:37 <Thelen> thats bizare
19:13:45 <Avatar> only need one
19:13:46 <Ballig> so you'll get 4 sneak attacks from that trick
19:13:46 <Mekkis> that's not enough
19:13:50 <Ballig> per day
19:14:06 <Avatar> I'm not going to be doing all the work am I
19:14:20 <Avatar> it's more than 4 per day
19:14:25 <Ballig> what's your charisma modifier
19:14:27 <Mekkis> you'll be doing less damage than a fighter
19:14:38 <Avatar> ki = 1/2 character level + charisma
19:14:47 <Ballig> yeah what's your charisma modifier
19:14:50 <Avatar> yeah but I will have a bunch of skills a fighter won't have
19:14:56 <MekkisScreen> I dislike the asian themed archtypes
19:14:56 <Avatar> 18
19:14:59 <Ballig> so you'll get 5 per day
19:15:03 <Avatar> Str: 16 +3 (7)
19:15:03 <MekkisScreen> especially ninja
19:15:03 <Avatar> Dex: 14 +2 (5)
19:15:03 <Avatar> Con: 13 +1 (3)
19:15:03 <Avatar> Int: 10 +0
19:15:03 <Avatar> Wis: 8 -1 (-2)
19:15:03 <Avatar> Cha: 16 +3 (5) (+2/human)
19:15:08 <Avatar> yeah and I'll take extra ki twice
19:15:10 <Avatar> so that's 9 per day
19:15:16 <Avatar> is the party helping me yet
19:15:22 <Ballig> so an average of 30ish damage per day
19:15:23 <Avatar> or do I have to do everything
19:15:34 <Avatar> that's pretty solid
19:15:39 <MekkisScreen> what ki related stuff do you get?
19:15:46 <Mekkis> skills schmills
19:15:49 <Avatar> is that only including sneak attack damage
19:15:56 <Avatar> Mekkis: says the +21 to diplomacy man
19:16:12 <MekkisScreen> (as in, why not drop cha to 14 and push str to 18
19:16:22 <Avatar> http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-combat/ninja
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19:16:26 <Avatar> all sorts
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19:17:02 <MekkisScreen> what are you actually t'ing?
19:17:03 <Avatar> I won't have to use invisibility if someone flanks too
19:17:24 <Avatar> what's t'ing
19:17:40 <Ballig> where's extra ki
19:17:49 <Avatar> core rulebook
19:17:51 <Avatar> it's 2 extra uses
19:17:54 <Ballig> ki is in the core rulebook?
19:17:58 <Mekkis> yeah
19:17:59 <Mekkis> monk
19:18:00 <Avatar> it was a monk feat
19:18:07 <Ballig> oh, didn't know they added ki to monks
19:18:20 <Mekkis> (still people don't take them...)
19:18:27 <Mekkis> hmmm...
19:18:31 <Mekkis> monk/synthesist
19:18:45 <Avatar> I considered a monk dip, but my wisdom is shot
19:19:07 <Ballig> you really need to have a good reason for multiclassing
19:19:30 <Mekkis> Jäsim thinks that's a good idea
19:20:18 <Avatar> even a multiclass into rogue is handy I think
19:20:19 <Ballig> Mekkis: even if it's a good idea, he needs to know why
19:20:21 <Ballig> or else he'll screw it up
19:20:25 <Avatar> instant +1d6 sneak attack and trapfinding
19:20:34 <Avatar> maybe I should drop cha and consider taking extra ki as a feat instead
19:20:50 <Ballig> can you disable traps
19:20:55 <Avatar> yeah
19:20:58 <Avatar> well
19:21:02 <Ballig> but you dont' get trapfinding?
19:21:04 <Avatar> I have disable device, but I can't find them
19:21:06 <Avatar> one of the tricks is effective invisibility
19:21:13 <Avatar> which would be handy for sneak attacks
19:21:17 <Avatar> yeah ninjas don't get trapfinding
19:21:24 <Ballig> interesting
19:21:31 <Thelen> Mekkis how much disk space?
19:21:46 <Ballig> 10tb
19:21:56 <Avatar> they get poison use instead, and instead of "trap sense", they get "no trace"
19:22:21 <Thelen> ah
19:22:28 <Mekkis> well...
19:22:31 <Mekkis> 100GB or so
19:22:39 <Avatar> actually that would be reason enough to drop str further wouldn't it
19:22:47 <Thelen> oh thats all
19:22:47 <Thelen> yea so small plan will be good
19:22:58 <Avatar> for more charisma
19:23:19 <Thelen> i can get ipv6 on the server i have now, although i got a deal for 4 mo after that its expensive, but moving to 2nd host/server has ipv6 too
19:23:43 <Mekkis> hmm
19:23:55 <Mekkis> I'll take more, but that's a start
19:24:52 <Thelen> take more?
19:25:05 <Mekkis> well, I'm not sure how much I'll end up using
19:25:49 <Thelen> oh more disk?
19:26:00 <Mekkis> ja
19:27:22 <Thelen> Mekkis what sort of speced vps did u want anyway?
19:34:43 <Avatar> didn't perform used to be a trained only skill
19:36:01 <Ballig> nope
19:36:06 <Ballig> just checked back to 3.0 and it's not trained only
19:43:28 <Avatar> why do we not use poison more often in pathfinder
19:43:31 <Avatar> is it because of the cost
19:43:37 <Ballig> yeah
19:43:45 <Ballig> the decent poison (that doesn't have a DC of 11) costs too much
19:43:49 <Avatar> poison use just removes the risk of poisoning myself
19:44:01 <Avatar> which is good I guess
19:44:18 <Mekkis> yeah
19:44:24 <Mekkis> until you get minor creation
19:45:24 <Avatar> never
19:45:38 <Avatar> I guess I could take ranks in use magic device
19:45:40 <Ballig> that doesn't seem entirely kosher
19:46:04 <Ballig> although it's a level 4 spell, so that's pretty expensive too
19:46:22 <Avatar> really expensive
19:46:27 <Ballig> 700gp for a level 4 scroll
19:46:46 <Avatar> that's 1 use on a mid-tier scenario
19:46:58 <Avatar> with a free one every now and then, if I never buy anything else ever
19:47:25 <Avatar> I'm assuming like 1000gp for the poison, I don't know how much decent poison actually costs
19:47:33 <Avatar> I may be way off
19:48:32 <Ballig> 700gp will give you purple worm poison
19:48:57 <Ballig> which reduces strength on a DC 24, pretty decent
19:50:09 <Ballig> but if you were going to spend 700gp on the scroll, you'd want to make something expensive like tears of death
19:50:41 <Ballig> normally costs 6500gp, poisons someone 1 minute after coming into contact, 1d6 constitution damage (+1 minute of paralysation) per minute for 6 months, DC 22 save
19:50:53 <Ballig> er, 6 minutes
19:50:55 <Ballig> not months
19:51:33 <Ballig> basically enough to kill any humanoid if they don't save against it
19:52:27 <Avatar> imagine if they did save
19:52:33 <Avatar> bye bye 700gp
19:52:50 <Ballig> well, usually poison has a "cure" in a number of saves
19:52:55 <Ballig> so most poison is "cured" if you save against it just once
19:52:59 <Avatar> ah but they can save immediately
19:53:00 <Ballig> some you have to save against twice
19:53:05 <Avatar> oh
19:53:08 <Ballig> tears of death has no cure
19:53:19 <Ballig> if they save, they just don't take the damage that minute
19:53:32 <Ballig> so say you are poisoned by it, after 1 minute from contact you have to make a DC 22 save
19:53:44 <Ballig> if you fail, you take 1d6 constitution damage and are paralysed for 1 minute
19:53:53 <Ballig> after another minute you have to take another DC 22 save, if you save against it you are no longer paralysed and don't take damage
19:53:57 <Ballig> but you have to do that every minute for 6 minutes
19:54:26 <Ballig> if you fail all 6 saves you will have taken an average of 21 constitution damage
19:54:29 <Ballig> which is enough to kill almost any humanoid
19:56:09 <Ballig> compare that to, say, Deathblade
19:56:14 <Avatar> oh, I said I'd go cheliax for my next character
19:56:27 <Ballig> it's an injury poison, so they become poisoned straight away
19:56:35 <Ballig> every round for 6 rounds they have to make a DC 20 save or take 1d3 con damage
19:56:38 <Ballig> but if they save twice, it's cured
19:56:47 <Ballig> so if they save the first two rounds, they don't have to do the next four
19:58:31 <Avatar> cheliax has some pretty sweet traits
19:58:51 <Mekkis> goddamn it
20:00:50 <Ballig> blue whinnis is a kind of cool poison but the DC is too low for it to be very effectiv
20:01:05 <Ballig> each dose is 120gp, can make someone unconscious for 1d3 hours, but the DC is 14
20:01:30 <Avatar> what's a typical low will save on a mob
20:01:33 <Avatar> maybe +3?
20:01:47 <Avatar> about a 1 in 2 chance
20:01:47 <Ballig> poison is fortitude
20:01:58 <Avatar> well any typical low save
20:02:21 <Avatar> if you're fighting a spellcaster that could be particularly useful
20:02:22 <Ballig> you wouldn't want to use it on low-threat mobs
20:02:50 <Avatar> taldor has some good ninja-style traits too
20:14:13 <Avatar> Ballig: how come bobbob has 3 traits
20:15:36 <Ballig> adopted gives you a trait
20:16:38 <Avatar> yeah but adopted is a trait itself
20:16:45 <Ballig> it sure is
20:16:48 <Avatar> that's trait #1, the adopted trait is #2
20:16:50 <Mekkis> extra traits
20:16:52 <Avatar> and you have a third one
20:16:56 <Avatar> he doesn't have extra traits
20:17:07 <Ballig> the way I interpret the description, you don't need extra traits
20:17:27 <Avatar> of course you need extra traits to have 3 traits
20:17:35 <Ballig> read the description for adopted
20:17:42 <Avatar> otherwise race restriction wouldn't apply for anything
20:17:56 <Ballig> right, they don't apply for anything
20:18:08 <Ballig> except that you can't take adopted twice
20:22:29 <Avatar> http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2ew8?Adopted-Trait#0
20:22:30 <Avatar> there you go
20:22:57 <Ballig> cool, validation
20:23:08 <Avatar> all this time I've been ignoring all those racial traits
20:23:14 <Ballig> haha
20:29:13 <Avatar> excellent, now I'm a soul drinker and a seeker of brightness
20:30:06 <Ballig> what's that
20:31:08 <Avatar> those are my traits
20:31:12 <Ballig> yeah what do they do
20:31:19 <Ballig> is one racial?
20:31:27 <Avatar> soul drinker gives me temporary hp when we kill someone, cheliax
20:31:38 <Avatar> seeker of brightness gives me +1 to knowledge and perception, elf
20:32:01 <Ballig> ahh
20:32:06 <Ballig> I took the tomb raider osirion feat
20:32:18 <Ballig> er, trait
20:32:20 <Avatar> tomb raider is good
20:32:21 <Ballig> perception as a class skill is pretty incredible for a trait
20:32:28 <Avatar> this doesn't make perception a class skill
20:32:30 <Avatar> but I already have it
20:32:35 <Ballig> yeah
20:32:47 <Ballig> so you're adopted by elves too?
20:32:47 <Ballig> :p
20:32:52 <Avatar> sure am
20:32:58 <Ballig> maybe you are Bobbob's adopted brother
20:33:03 <Avatar> I think all my characters from now on are adopted
20:33:08 <Ballig> haha
20:34:38 <Ballig> people need to put their shit in the right category
20:34:52 <Avatar> they sure do
20:34:52 <Ballig> annoys the hell out of me checking allhomes.com.au and you see a really well-priced place for rent only to see that it's actually a share accommodation
20:34:55 <Ballig> there's a category for that, jerks
20:35:22 <Avatar> it always amazed me at work how unorganised so many people are
20:37:43 <Ballig> I have to wonder, why is it that I don't like bedsitters/studio apartments
20:38:57 <Avatar> http://dnd.ballig.net/viewchar.php5?char=330
20:39:16 <Avatar> dunno, if I moved into another place, I wouldn't mind a studio
20:39:26 <Avatar> I remember avoiding them initially, but I don't know why I did
20:40:02 <Ballig> I can understand if you have people over all the time
20:40:11 <Ballig> you don't want them being in your bedroom while they're in your lounge room
20:40:24 <Avatar> I don't give a rats about that
20:41:28 <Ballig> there's a studio apartment for $250/week within walking distance to the city centre
20:41:48 <Avatar> that's less than what I pay
20:41:51 <Ballig> it's $50/week more than I pay now, but it would even out because it'd cost me less to use buses
20:42:05 <Avatar> forget fucking buses
20:42:38 <Avatar> might get a chain shirt and upgrade it to mithral later
20:42:48 <Avatar> damn mithral is nice
20:45:23 <Ballig> it's also expensive
20:45:24 <Avatar> only +1000gp for light
20:45:24 <Ballig> you can make it magic for that much
20:45:24 <Avatar> does that mutiply somehow when you make it magic
20:45:24 <Ballig> what do you want out of it
20:45:24 <Avatar> I want almost all the benefits mithral gives
20:45:24 <Avatar> excepting spell failure which I don't care about for now, at least
20:45:24 <Avatar> I may dip into sorcerer later
20:45:24 <Ballig> well, the only two benefits for light armour is the raised max dex bonus and the lower ACP
20:45:24 <Ballig> do you have a high dex bonus
20:45:24 <Avatar> not that high
20:45:24 <Avatar> there's the weight as well
20:45:24 <Ballig> the weight isn't very high for light armour anyway
20:45:24 <Ballig> so really it's just the -3 ACP?
20:46:01 <Avatar> yeah
20:46:02 <Avatar> and the weight
20:46:03 <Avatar> that counts man
20:46:09 <Avatar> it'd turn 25lb into 12.5
20:46:12 <Ballig> you'd be better off getting mule cords
20:46:15 <Ballig> if you care that much about the weight
20:46:23 <Avatar> what are mule cords
20:47:27 <Ballig> increases your strength by 8 for carrying capacity purposes
20:47:27 <Ballig> so takes your heavy load from 154lb to 467lb
20:47:36 <Ballig> for the same cost as mithraling your shirt
20:47:53 <Avatar> but I don't need that much extra weight, and I need the ACP
20:48:04 <Ballig> so really it's the ACP
20:48:09 <Avatar> well it's both
20:48:16 <Ballig> but really the ACP
20:48:24 <Avatar> well it's 50/50
20:48:31 <Ballig> it can't be 50/50
20:48:32 <Avatar> why not
20:48:34 <Ballig> if it were 50/50 muleback cords would be a clear winner
20:48:40 <Avatar> what, how
20:48:57 <Avatar> it's not like I'm trying to carry unlimited weight
20:48:57 <Ballig> because instead of reducing weight by 12.5lb it reduces weight by 310lb
20:49:09 <Avatar> my light load is like 70lb
20:49:10 <Ballig> but you still want the mithral instead
20:49:11 <Ballig> so it's not 50/50
20:49:19 <Ballig> 76
20:49:20 <Ballig> okay, if you want light load
20:49:30 <Ballig> then it takes it from 76 to 233
20:49:32 <Avatar> yeah see I don't need an extra 150lb
20:49:38 <Avatar> but an extra 12lb will go a long way
20:49:39 <Ballig> so clearly it's about the ACP
20:49:41 <Ballig> and not 50/50
20:49:52 <Avatar> it's about 50/50 when you take into account the 12 and not the 150
20:49:55 <Ballig> you realise that just making chain shirt masterwork turns your ACP to -1
20:50:07 <Avatar> yeah that's true
20:50:14 <Ballig> so you are paying 1000 gold to reduce your ACP by 1 and your weight by 12.5
20:50:24 <Avatar> ok no need to be a smartass
20:50:28 <Ballig> or you can spend it and increase your carrying capacity by 150
20:50:38 <Avatar> yeah it makes sense when you take into account masterwork
20:51:02 <Ballig> mithral becomes more useful when you're talking medium and heavy armour
20:51:07 <Ballig> but at the same time it becomes prohibitively expensive
20:52:25 <Avatar> I thought masterwork was +300gp but it's only +150gp
20:52:32 <Avatar> that must be weapons
20:52:47 <Ballig> yeah that's weapons
20:52:49 <Ballig> I'm tempted to buy my cleric masterwork breastplate
20:52:59 <Ballig> will cost me like 350gp
20:53:20 <Ballig> but it'll increase his AC by 1 and reduce his ACP by 1
20:55:35 <Avatar> what cleric
20:55:58 <Ballig> the one I played in first steps
20:56:50 <Avatar> why did I think you were a fighter
21:00:05 <Ballig> dunno
21:00:16 <Ballig> that was thelen, slicing through all the guys at the end
21:00:22 <Avatar> yeah
21:00:24 <Avatar> you were casting bless
21:00:25 <Ballig> I didn't actually have to do any healing
21:00:27 <Ballig> yeah
21:00:34 <Ballig> and detect magic
21:00:52 <Avatar> sorcerer could've done that
21:01:01 <Ballig> did you think I was a sorcerer
21:01:41 <Avatar> no, the 4th was
21:01:55 <Ballig> he cast detect magic too
21:02:20 <Avatar> a dip into sorcerer could be very handy with a colour spray and a bunch of cantrips as backup
21:02:32 <Thelen> ok got ipv6 Mekkis >_>
21:02:33 <Ballig> by the time you multiclass into sorcerer colour spray won't be that useful
21:02:40 <Avatar> that is a lie
21:02:50 <Ballig> it's level limited
21:04:07 <Ballig> anyway off to bed
21:04:15 <Avatar> it's only 10pm
21:04:26 <Ballig> and I have to be up in only 8 hours
21:04:34 <Avatar> lollll I don't
21:04:50 <Ballig> I get paid higher than the poverty line
21:04:58 <Avatar> getting paid is overrated
21:09:51 <Avatar> hm
21:09:58 <Avatar> katana does 1d8 damage on an 18-20/x2 crit
21:43:10 <***> Buffer Playback...
21:43:10 <***> Playback Complete.
21:43:37 <Mekkis> what about a Falchard?
21:43:59 <Mekkis> Thelen, native IPv6?
21:53:14 <Mekkis> I want to try different combinations of synthesist....
21:54:00 <Mekkis> the obvious choice is monk
22:00:23 <Avatar> what is a falchard
22:00:48 <Avatar> do you mean falchion
22:01:58 <Avatar> I'm actually taking longspear now
22:02:06 <Avatar> 1d8, x3, reach
22:11:41 <Avatar> changed my str to 18 and my dex to 13
22:11:41 <Avatar> that'll probably kill me
22:19:43 <Mekkis> no, I mean falchard
22:19:49 <Mekkis> it's an exotic weapon
22:20:01 <Mekkis> 1d10 damage, reach, trip, 18-20 crit
22:20:35 <Avatar> that's falchion
22:21:00 <Avatar> wait, no it's not
22:21:10 <Avatar> what book is falchard in
22:21:17 <Avatar> also, I don't have proficiency with it
22:24:27 <Mekkis> classic monsters revisited
22:24:51 <Avatar> never heard of it
22:25:17 Mort ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:26:29 <Thelen> MUDKIPS
22:28:15 <Avatar> or double chained kama can do 2d6 (with x2) up close, or 1d6 with reach, and can also disarm and trip
22:33:11 <Avatar> now I am thinking maybe I should aim for improved feint, which requires 13 int
22:33:26 <Avatar> oh, at -2/-2 because it's a double weapon :|
22:33:47 <Avatar> I guess I could destroy my wisdom again and hamper my dex down to 10
22:33:48 <Mort> urgh
22:33:52 <Mort> regening the messs will take agessss
22:33:58 <Avatar> what
22:34:13 <Mekkis> does feint work as badly as it did in 3.5?
22:34:42 <Avatar> what was wrong with it in 3.5
22:35:06 <Mekkis> well, assuming you've spent two feats to get improved feint
22:35:20 <Avatar> correct
22:35:23 <Mekkis> you make a bluff check, opposed by sense motive + BAB
22:35:29 <Mekkis> (good luck with that)
22:35:42 <Avatar> is that crap to make
22:36:00 <Mekkis> and if you succeed, you've forgone the ability to make a full attack in favour of making a single attack against flat-footed
22:36:10 <Mekkis> well... yes
22:36:32 <Mekkis> because most of the things you're fighting will have BAB+wisdom roughly around your bluff modifier
22:38:17 <Avatar> my bluff is pretty high
22:38:23 <Avatar> I will be maxxing it out and I have an 18 charisma
22:38:38 <Avatar> is that still not really high enough
22:38:44 <Mekkis> correct
22:38:50 <Avatar> okay
22:38:54 <Mekkis> most of your enemies will have more HD than you
22:55:06 <Mekkis> your bluff will be like? +9?
22:59:21 <Avatar> +8 at 1st level
22:59:43 <Avatar> I might go half-orc for the darkvision
23:00:12 <Avatar> there's alternate racial traits that give bonuses to perception or acrobatics + climb
23:00:53 <Mort> why bluff
23:01:20 <Avatar> feint uses bluff
23:01:38 <Avatar> my charisma is super high because ninjas need good charisma
23:02:58 <Avatar> apparently you can identify a potion by taste using perception?
23:09:45 <Mekkis> where does ninja get invisibility?
23:10:07 <Mekkis> ah
23:11:00 <Mekkis> ok
23:11:07 <Mekkis> so ninja is just a crappy rogue
23:12:41 <Mekkis> can't even use a sap
23:14:12 <Avatar> why bother with a sap? kick 'em
23:14:41 <Mekkis> because they're trying to kill you, and you've been instructed to not kill them
23:14:58 <Avatar> nope, I'm going to kill them
23:15:14 <Mekkis> your venture captain won't be pleased
23:15:24 <Avatar> not even worth the prestige if I can't claim my kill
23:15:36 <Mekkis> (and yes, there is a scenario that calls for that)
23:15:40 <Avatar> it'll be okay if I don't do enough damage to kill but enough to unconscious them I guess
23:15:42 <Mekkis> actually, several scenarios
23:16:00 <Mekkis> what if they're a raging barbarian
23:16:05 <Mekkis> ?
23:16:12 <Avatar> why does that change anything
23:16:35 Nodwik_sleeps_then_work has quit (Quit: Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CARRIER)
23:16:42 <Mekkis> because they gain HP when they rage
23:16:48 <Mekkis> which they lose when they stop raging
23:16:58 <Mekkis> if they fall unconscious, they stop raging
23:17:04 <Mekkis> and lose that HP
23:17:06 <Mekkis> and die
23:17:29 <Avatar> well that's their problem
23:17:32 <Avatar> they killed themselves
23:17:38 <Avatar> not only that
23:17:41 <Avatar> but I will drink their soul
23:17:44 <Mekkis> except that you've been instructed to take them alive
23:17:49 <Mekkis> by the Society
23:18:11 <Avatar> well they'll be given a chance to be healed
23:18:13 <Avatar> but beyond that
23:18:19 <Avatar> it wasn't my fault
23:18:24 <Mekkis> yes it was
23:18:32 <Mekkis> because you didn't do nonlethal damage to him
23:18:35 <Avatar> I'm not the one who started to rage and then ended by dying
23:18:49 <Mekkis> neither was he
23:19:00 <Mekkis> but if I say anymore, I'll be spoiling that scenario
23:19:13 <Avatar> http://dnd.ballig.net/viewchar.php5?char=330
23:19:15 <Avatar> the latest
23:19:48 <Avatar> I'm thinking that high str score is probably a mistake
23:20:07 <Mekkis> if you're planning on hitting things in melee, high str is never a mistake
23:20:20 <Avatar> yeah that's true
23:20:39 <Avatar> but my survivability is a bit garbage
23:20:59 <Avatar> might not get much better than that though
23:21:13 <Mekkis> what does cha actually do for you?
23:21:15 <Avatar> it's either go with a dex rogue (bad idea) or deal with a low dex
23:21:22 <Avatar> cha gives me more ki
23:21:34 <Avatar> I'm pretty confident I will be using it that often
23:21:43 <Mekkis> like grit?
23:21:58 <Avatar> no, most grit abilities don't require it to be spent to be used
23:22:02 <Avatar> ki is the opposite
23:22:10 <Avatar> and I'll be relying on it for attacks
23:22:16 <Avatar> and other things
23:22:38 <Avatar> I may not need extra ki until 3rd level
23:22:47 <Avatar> I can't use it at all until 2nd
23:23:09 <Avatar> but considering I'm also only using this character for first steps, that won't be an issue
23:26:35 <Mekkis> keep in mind that I'd consider +1 to AC better than +1 ki
23:27:03 <Mekkis> (the only time I'd consider 18 in a stat is if it's for saves or damage)
23:27:57 <Avatar> it is for damage
23:28:09 <Avatar> vanishing trick lets me turn invisible
23:28:12 <Avatar> = sneak attack damage
23:28:25 <Avatar> among everything else ki does
23:29:00 <Mekkis> look at it this way
23:29:08 <Mekkis> extra ki gives you 2 ki points, right?
23:29:15 <Avatar> YUP
23:29:20 <Mekkis> are there any feats that give you +2 to AC?
23:29:24 <Avatar> no
23:29:30 <Avatar> +1 to AC w/dodge
23:29:40 <Mekkis> (there's dodge, that gives +1; and improved natural armour which gives +1)
23:31:02 <Avatar> were you going somewhere with that
23:31:15 <Mekkis> yeah
23:31:30 <Mekkis> better to have 14 dex / 16 cha than 12 dex / 18 cha
23:31:53 <Mekkis> because +1 ki is half a feat and +1 ac is a feat
23:32:25 <Mekkis> what armour are you planning on wearing?
23:32:33 <Avatar> chain shirt
23:32:37 <Avatar> it's the best I can wear
23:32:59 <Avatar> it's actually something slightly weaker, but that only reduced my max dex from -4 to -3, which is still way above me
23:33:02 <Mekkis> not elven chain?
23:33:10 <Avatar> what is elven chain
23:33:46 <Mekkis> a 3.5ism that slipped into pathfinder
23:33:56 <Avatar> into what book
23:34:01 <Mekkis> core
23:34:09 <Mekkis> http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/elven-chain
23:34:23 <Mekkis> "This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency."
23:34:27 <Avatar> not in the armour table
23:34:51 <Mekkis> (everything else mithril removes the "determining proficiency" bit)
23:34:51 <Avatar> that is no better than what I'm wearing
23:35:03 <Mekkis> it's chainmail
23:35:05 <Mekkis> +6 AC
23:35:17 <Mekkis> not chain shirt
23:35:37 <Avatar> that doesn't mention AC at all
23:35:45 <Mekkis> This extremely light chainmail
23:35:47 <Mekkis> ...
23:35:48 <Avatar> and I can't help but notice it has a pricetag of 5150gp
23:36:03 <Mekkis> and it's worth every gp
23:36:13 <Avatar> you're aware I'm a level 1 character right
23:36:18 <Mekkis> yes
23:36:28 <Avatar> and I don't have anything close to 5150gp
23:36:33 <Mekkis> and I'm assuming that your character hopes to live to level 12?
23:36:46 <Avatar> also correct, but I still don't have 5150gp
23:36:57 <Avatar> I'm looking at now-options
23:37:18 <Mekkis> yes, but choosing your stats is important to also look at long-term
23:37:39 <Avatar> the rest of my stats match the stats of that chainmail
23:37:44 <Avatar> for my armour
23:39:20 <Avatar> I think you've convinced me with the dex vs cha argument
23:39:29 <Mekkis> (if you were planning on wearing fullplate, I'd understand a dex of 12)
23:40:57 <Avatar> I fucked up point buy
23:41:05 <Avatar> 7 is 15, not 16
23:41:34 <Avatar> I thought that looked too high
23:44:26 <Avatar> new point buy:
23:44:28 <Avatar> Str: 16 +3 (5) (+2/human)
23:44:28 <Avatar> Dex: 14 +2 (5)
23:44:28 <Avatar> Con: 12 +1 (2)
23:44:28 <Avatar> Int: 8 -1 (-2)
23:44:28 <Avatar> Wis: 10 0
23:44:28 <Avatar> Cha: 16 +3 (10)
23:56:20 <Mekkis> drop cha to 14 and up str to 18
23:56:49 <Mekkis> you're dropping one use of getting +2 to hit and 1d6 damage per day in favour if unlimited +1 to hit and +3 damage
23:56:49 <Avatar> nope, cha needs to be at least as high as str
23:57:02 <Mekkis> in favour of*
23:58:12 <Avatar> I've already dropped one use of it
23:59:00 <Mekkis> +1 to-hit and +3 damage
23:59:08 <Mekkis> (which gets multiplied on a crit)
23:59:48 <Mekkis> vs a single +2 to-hit and +1d6 damage, if they don't see invisible, have blindsight, or have immunity to crits
23:59:57 <Mekkis> that doesn't get multiplied on a crit
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