// #eevblog — 2019-02-28
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00:28:43 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:34:32 Quit: T3sl4 ([email protected]) Changing hosts
00:34:32 Join: T3sl4 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:34:33 Mode: (by lego.jp.austnet.org) +o T3sl4
01:54:11 Join: randohinn ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:54:15 <randohinn> Hey
01:56:52 <randohinn> I'm looking at some ESC schematics
02:10:54 <randohinn> There are ones that use a pair of 1 N-channel and 1 P-channel mosfets for each pair. And ones, that use 2 N channel mosfets.. What difference does it make, besides the direction of pull-down/up resistors needed?
02:12:42 <randohinn> And driving signals
02:16:02 <randohinn> Is there any difference at all in the performance side :P ?
02:30:25 <DHess_US> N-channel MOSFETs are cheaper and higher performance but they require the extra complexity of a high side driver.
02:31:42 <DHess_US> For the top n-channel MOSFET, the gate has to be driven positive by 5 to 10 volts with respect to the supply voltage which usually means some kind of bootstrapping circuit.
02:32:35 <DHess_US> It is easy enough to do but a P-channel and N-channel pair have identical driver requirements making things a little simpler.
02:32:37 <randohinn> DHess_US, 5V above the Drain?
02:32:58 <randohinn> the voltage at Drain* ?
02:33:06 <DHess_US> Well, under that condition the Vds is zero volts so yes, 5 to 10 volts above the drain.
02:33:42 <randohinn> Great.. I want my mosfet to troughput 36V :D
02:33:49 <randohinn> so 41Volts...
02:34:31 <DHess_US> The easy way to do it is to use the low impedance output of the N-channel and N-channel pair to drive a capacitve charge pump which creates the higher voltage to drive the top n-channel MOSFET. Lots of switching regulators do it this way if their output is 5 to 15 volts.
02:42:08 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:42:47 <randohinn> DHess_US, Basically, a capacitor between the line going to the motor and what, Ground?
02:46:07 <randohinn> Or did I completely misunderstand?
02:46:19 <randohinn> And should look for a driver chip instead?
03:06:58 <DHess_US> I mean a charge pump with a couple capacitors and a diode or two.
03:07:28 <DHess_US> But if you are running on 36 volts, then you need a zener diode to limit the voltage also.
03:08:29 <K> there prolly is a driver ic with integrated pump
03:08:39 <DHess_US> Sure, lots of them.
03:09:23 <DHess_US> https://i.stack.imgur.com/cY0a2.png
03:10:28 <DHess_US> integrated driver which does the exact same thing, https://i.stack.imgur.com/Vo1UE.png
03:11:23 <DHess_US> another one, https://i.stack.imgur.com/nC6WK.jpg
03:13:01 <DHess_US> With a 36 volt supply, you will have to level shift and regulate the p-channel drive anyway so adding the bootstrap circuit isn't such a big deal.
03:13:05 <randohinn> Mkay a driver it is then..
03:45:19 Quit: byteturtle ([email protected]) Quit: I am on the side of those who think rationally, and an enemy to those who engage in needless conflict.
04:12:30 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
04:31:53 <randohinn> Now, to find a driver that can level shift a 5v logic signal up to 41V to drive the mosfet...
04:33:23 <Ampera> randohinn, Eurovision Song Contest schematics?
04:33:38 <randohinn> Haha, no :D
04:35:21 <K> maybe look at some h bridge driver ics?
04:36:02 <K> or maybe not
04:48:01 Join: AndrevS ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:51:20 <randohinn> :/
04:53:45 <randohinn> https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-IR2301-DS-vNA-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a4015355c97bb216dc seems Like it does the trick..
04:57:48 <randohinn> or not ?
05:41:20 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:41:22 <randohinn> Allright, DHess_US and K , care to take a look I'm doing this correctly? https://imgur.com/a/a6NBSas VCC will be 36V
05:44:25 <randohinn> The avr lines could probably use a pulldown, too...
06:31:25 <DHess_US> D4 and D5 aren't doing anything useful. The MOSFETs already have diodes there.
06:35:21 <DHess_US> You have two Vcc connections marked. ARe those the same?
06:36:10 <DHess_US> I don't think you want to run the IR2301 from the output voltage because the bootstrapping supply will exceed the top MOSFET Vgs and destroy it.
06:36:50 <DHess_US> That is why the application example shows a separate Vcc and "up to 600V" output supply.
06:37:05 <DHess_US> Make Vcc +12 volts and you are golden.
06:37:51 <DHess_US> Or +15 volts, whatever.
06:39:13 <DHess_US> Yea, you can't run the irfs7530 with only 5 volts of gate drive.
06:39:54 <DHess_US> At least not in that circuit.
06:40:47 <DHess_US> And for the record, I think it is stupid to control the low and high side MOSFETs from an AVR without some type of interlock because one programming mistake and it will self destruct.
06:42:40 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) EOF from client
06:42:52 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:44:23 <randohinn> So 1) Remove all mosfet diodes and 2) make the VCC to the IR2301 be 12V
06:48:08 <randohinn> Better, DHess_US :) ? https://imgur.com/a/kJSutgL
06:58:16 <DHess_US> If you want the output diodes, then use power schottky diodes. VCC for the IR2301 needs to be high enough to drive the Vgs of the MOSFETs so 10 to 15 volts. You might already have a 12 volt supply.
06:58:53 <DHess_US> Yes, there you go. I think that is right.
06:59:37 <DHess_US> The output diodes are only needed in certain circumstances where you do not want the body diodes in the MOSFETs conducting but given how slow the IR2301 is, I doubt that will be a problem so the output diodes are just not needed.
06:59:56 <DHess_US> But if you do include them, use schottkys because they need to have a lower forward voltage drop than the MOSFET body diodes to be effective.
07:02:04 <randohinn> Okay, hoping the ones in the mosfets are good enough to protect them :D
07:05:15 <DHess_US> They have the current and voltage rating of the MOSFET. The problem usually comes from fast switching where the reverse recovery time shorts out the other MOSFET for 200ns or whatever.
07:05:56 <DHess_US> So to prevent that, a power schottky diode is placed in parallel to prevent the MOSFET body diode from conducting.
07:06:27 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
07:06:32 <randohinn> Okay. So I might be better off with them
07:06:38 <randohinn> Any reccomendations?
07:07:01 <DHess_US> Put a spot on the board and test it both ways. Usually a motor ESC wouldn't be switchign fast enough for it to be a problem.
07:07:50 <DHess_US> Worst case it should be a schottky diode with the same voltage and current as the MOSFET. In practice the current can be lower.
07:07:58 <randohinn> okay.. Will incorporate a point to botch them in :D
07:08:20 <DHess_US> I'm not familiar with surface mount schottky diode part numbers.
07:09:29 <DHess_US> I'd probably look for something which has the same linear dimension as the power MOSFET package to make best use of available space.
07:10:09 <DHess_US> The 1n4148 might be a little small. Use one of the same diodes there.
07:10:21 <DHess_US> No need for extra part numbers.
07:15:35 <randohinn> 1n4148 on the output? will do
07:20:31 <randohinn> Dammit.. DOes anyone have a SOIC8 part for Altium Circuitmaker for the IR2301? Their component library only has a dip one... Yay for vias...
07:26:35 <randohinn> DHess_US, another Q
07:26:44 <randohinn> https://ee.farnell.com/infineon/irfs7530trl7pp/mosfet-n-ch-60v-240a-to-263-7/dp/2406522 and https://ee.farnell.com/infineon/irfs7530trlpbf/mosfet-n-ch-60v-295a-to-263ab/dp/2709996
07:27:11 <randohinn> Does the pincount, which seems to be the only difference, other than the increase in Amps make any operational difference?
08:16:09 Join: coppice_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
08:16:25 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
09:07:47 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:28:40 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW EEVblog Video! EEVblog #1184 - Dumpster Tek 500MHz TDS540D Scope https://t.co/qSRxIK9H0W
09:34:01 <T3sl4> ha
09:34:32 <T3sl4> i have a 460, no letter tho (no floppy)
09:36:08 <T3sl4> Bwahaha, Java
09:42:00 Quit: randohinn ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
11:07:03 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:25:54 <steve30> ooh, dumpster scope
11:28:46 * T3sl4 dumpster hugs steve30
11:29:38 <T3sl4> (like dave, i've found some rather nice ones in the dump ;) )
11:44:24 <steve30> i've never found scopes in the bin
11:44:31 <steve30> I bought my scope on ebay
11:45:05 <Ampera> I wish I had access to places where people throw tech out
11:45:19 <Ampera> would probably save me money from buying all of it :P
11:53:56 <DHess_US> The old aerospace cities are good places to find them at swap meets. I got my Lavoie LA-265A for $50 at a garage sale and it came with a P6021 current probe.
11:54:39 <DHess_US> Got my first 7000 series mainframe and plugins at the TRW swap meet in Manhatten Beach
11:54:58 <Ampera> You have a 7000 series mainframe?
11:55:56 <DHess_US> I have several now.
11:56:07 <DHess_US> That one was a 7603 3-bay 100MHz with the large CRT.
11:56:41 <DHess_US> 7904, 7854, 7834
11:56:51 <Ampera> I've never heard of those.
11:57:29 <DHess_US> 7904 is the general purpose 500MHz. 7834 is the 400MHz storage, 7854 is the digital storage 400MHz.
11:57:53 <DHess_US> 7904 is what I use the most because of its bright and sharp CRT.
11:58:15 <Ampera> This isn't IBM 7000 series is it?
11:58:22 <DHess_US> I need to rebulid my 7603, power supply capacitors need to be replaced.
11:58:31 <DHess_US> No, 7000 series Tektronix mainframe oscilloscopes.
11:58:36 <Ampera> OH
11:58:50 <Ampera> I thought you were talking about the IBM 7000 series
11:58:51 * T3sl4 slaps Ampera with a main frame
11:58:58 * Ampera throws a minicomputer at T3sl4
11:59:13 <DHess_US> http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/7000-series_scopes
11:59:47 <Ampera> was about to say, there aren't too many 7000 series IBM mainfraims still kicking around.
11:59:56 <Ampera> for someone to just have one is pretty incredulous
12:01:11 <T3sl4> not that many 7000 series tek mainframes left either
12:01:19 <T3sl4> although probably more than the IBM kind, if i had to guess
12:01:38 <DHess_US> Lot of dedicated people restoring Tektronix 7000 mainframes.
12:03:25 <DHess_US> I'd like sometime to design a dedicated sampling oscilloscope based on the Tektronix 7T11. I figure I could get 8 GHz with standard surface mount parts.
12:03:52 <T3sl4> that'd be cool
12:04:09 <DHess_US> Something which could be used to caliberate other oscilloscopes and do TDR.
12:04:46 <DHess_US> But ... Avago was the source for the microwave schottky diodes for the sampler ...
12:05:19 <T3sl4> hard to find much of anything in mid band RF these days
12:05:28 <T3sl4> (mid meaning say VHF to GHz)
12:06:48 <DHess_US> My sampling heads are kind of weird. They have 14 GHz bandwith but are really only useful faster than 10 nanoseconds because of excessive blow-by.
12:07:26 <T3sl4> that's alright, 100MHz is DC
12:08:29 <DHess_US> It's fun to study the old designs where they used "video" amplifiers in the low frequency signal path after sampling and consider how it would be done now with fast current and voltage feedback parts.
12:15:08 <coppice_> I used to hate those bloody Tektronix 7000 scopes. They must have been the most unreliable scopes ever made
12:19:06 <coppice_> anything fairly wideband used to be called a video amp. it was a weird trend
12:25:40 <DHess_US> The first "video" operational amplifier was like the 318 which used emitter degeneration and that is still very common in "video" operational amplifiers.
12:26:51 <DHess_US> Modern implementions use CB processes which considerably simplifies things but still also use emitter geneneration in the fist stage to lower transconductance. For companies like TI which do not provide schematics, you can identify them by high input voltage noise.
12:27:08 <DHess_US> And the 318 was a noisy part.
12:27:53 <DHess_US> LT and AD have a whole series of them. I'm not sure about TI.
12:28:10 <DHess_US> They are competative with current feedback operational amplifiers but are easier to use.
16:13:25 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: To think this used to be the EEVblog lab. Looks like a bought one now. https://t.co/BwgG5mEUN6
16:42:30 Join: Ampera486 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:42:38 <Ampera486> Hi Halcyon
16:42:47 <Ampera486> You around?
16:44:00 <Ampera> Ampera486, ╬
16:44:56 Quit: Ampera486 ([email protected]) Client exited
17:11:29 * DogWomble peers in
19:02:01 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
19:39:46 <Halcyon> Hey Ampera
19:39:54 <Ampera> Hi Halcyon
19:39:56 <Ampera> how do
19:40:04 <Halcyon> Not too bad, how about you?
19:40:17 <Ampera> my board came in
19:40:26 <Ampera> so did a hard drive
19:40:30 <Halcyon> YAY!
19:40:34 <Ampera> today another hard drive and my cooler comes in
19:43:52 <Ampera> with that I'll be able to test the motherboard and my RAM
19:44:06 <Halcyon> How exciting!
19:44:08 <Ampera> I looked at the memory and I believe it's all ECC, although I didn't run the numbers on it to check for sure
19:44:14 <Ampera> but they look like they would be
19:44:30 <Halcyon> If it has a smaller chip in between the actual memory modules, it's ECC
19:44:48 <Ampera> Didn't look too hardly
19:44:54 <Ampera> actually let me run the numbers, I'll check, standby
19:46:15 <Halcyon> Ill be back shortly, need to move the sprinkler
19:48:19 <Ampera> 5x1GB DIMMs of DDR3 ECC DRAM and 2x2GB DIMMs of DDR3 ECC DRAM confirmed
19:50:43 <Halcyon> Awesome
19:51:02 <Ampera> Drives are 2TB Hitatchi 7.2k drives
19:51:16 <Ampera> 32MB cache
19:51:32 <Halcyon> Also check the config in the motherboard manual. Most server boards will have redundant RAM and other configs of such type
19:51:46 <Ampera> lol manual
19:51:52 <Halcyon> It will dictate which slots to install the RAM modules in
19:51:59 <Ampera> That I will need
19:52:05 <Ampera> I will also need to find the manual, if it exists
19:52:23 <Halcyon> It should do, I'll be under the model number of whatever machine it came out of
19:52:51 <Ampera> I'll look into it when I go to test the board and reflash the BIOS
19:52:55 <Halcyon> *nod*
19:53:21 <Ampera> I hope my CPU is compatible, I bought it and I'm not entirely sure.
19:53:32 <Halcyon> When do you expect everything to arrive?
19:53:35 <Ampera> The chipset supports it, it's the right socket, but I have no clue about BIOS support
19:53:48 <Ampera> The CPU will be here by Friday, everything else comes today.
19:53:50 <Halcyon> Is there a HP P/N on the board?
19:54:12 <Ampera> I know the board, but I didn't see the CPU on the support list
19:54:23 <Halcyon> Can I have a lookie?
19:54:24 <Ampera> the support list also wasn't exactly all encompassing
19:54:30 <Ampera> standby
19:54:31 <Halcyon> Also the model of the CPU you ordered
19:54:40 <Halcyon> No, they generally aren't
19:54:47 <Ampera> Xeon X5650
19:55:09 <Ampera> I've done my research, I don't believe I've missed anything
19:55:39 <Ampera> The HP Z400
19:56:00 <Ampera> 586968-001 is the model number for the board from the ebay listing
19:58:15 <Halcyon> "New BIOS version (version 3.04); fully Westmere compliant"
19:58:26 <Halcyon> Looks like you'll be fine
19:58:42 <Halcyon> As long as it's the 6-DIMM slot version
19:58:46 <Ampera> Aye
19:58:48 <Halcyon> They made an older 4-slot one
19:58:55 <Ampera> that matches up with what I've researched
19:59:04 <Ampera> 6 cores 12 threads I can't wait
19:59:36 <Halcyon> I have 2x E5645's in my desktop
19:59:40 <Halcyon> They absolutely scream
19:59:50 <Halcyon> For and old processor, you'll be very happy
20:00:06 <Ampera> It's amazing how a nearly 10 year old processor is still a low cost powerhouse, yet if I compare those to Xeons from just 6-7 years ago, the older Xeons are impossibly slow
20:00:54 <Ampera> This chip beats out your CPU by 1000 passmarks
20:01:40 <Ampera> Strange, there's no Intel Ark entry for your chip
20:02:08 <Ampera> Westmere-EP though, same as mine
20:02:44 <Halcyon> *nod*
20:03:03 <Halcyon> Except mines a dual-proc board :)
20:04:18 <Ampera> This is my previous Xeon machine: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+3.06GHz&id=1319
20:04:39 <Ampera> Two of those, 2 cores, 4 threads, IA-32
20:05:03 <Halcyon> How things have changed
20:05:17 <Ampera> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Opteron+248&id=1454&cpuCount=2
20:05:21 <Ampera> I also have one of these (dual CPU)
20:05:30 <Ampera> It's about as fast, but it's AMD64
20:06:02 <Halcyon> Once I bought my first Xeon machine about 8 or 9 years ago, I've never gone back to normal desktop CPUs
20:06:21 <Ampera> For desktop usage, they are good for cheap, but I see no point to them otherwise.
20:06:37 <Halcyon> I do find them quite a bit more stable
20:06:38 <Ampera> ECC has never made a difference for me, I've never had stability issues with it or without it that I can tell.
20:06:47 <Ampera> My 4790k is rock stable.
20:06:55 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Tektronix TDS540D Repair Part 1 https://t.co/cnws1WrjLY
20:06:57 <Halcyon> But I suspect that it also comes down to the fact that cheap consumer crap doesn't normally support Xeon processors
20:07:12 <Ampera> Uptime right now is 11 days
20:07:31 <Ampera> No crashes, malfunctions, corruptions of any perceptible kind, and it's been doing this just as well for years.
20:07:32 <Halcyon> I'm going to go back to shutting down my desktop PC
20:07:36 <Halcyon> There is no need for me to have it on
20:07:39 <Ampera> what are you on now?
20:07:43 <Ampera> Oh
20:07:48 <Ampera> i thought you meant shut it down /now/
20:07:48 <Halcyon> As in when I'm not home
20:07:53 <Halcyon> Heh no
20:08:06 <Ampera> Sadly my two IBM EServers are the most unstable machines I own.
20:08:07 <Halcyon> Everything I need to run continuously are on VMs
20:08:13 <Ampera> Likely due to age and complexity.
20:08:25 <Ampera> I don't maintain a single VM whatsoever.
20:08:35 <Ampera> and I intend to keep it that way unless I get particularly rich and can afford to piss performance
20:08:46 <Halcyon> The IBM servers are good, but the biggest issue I had with mine (back before I bought Dell then eventually built my own) is that they're noisy
20:09:01 <Ampera> Well they're servers, noise isn't exactly high on the priority list.
20:09:14 <Halcyon> Then again, I've had Dell baseboard controllers fuck out in old PowerEdge servers
20:09:30 <Ampera> I find they are very overbuilt, overly complicated.
20:09:49 <Halcyon> Yeh I guess they are, but that's enterprise gear for you
20:09:51 <Halcyon> People use that stuff
20:09:52 <Ampera> They make for some of the most interesting machines I've ever used, but practically they could be made cheaper, and that would have likely made it so they still work to this day
20:10:32 <Ampera> My 486 desktop machine had parts fly in from as far as Rostov-on-don in Russia, was put together by a phenominal idiot in conditions where ESD is more of a sad joke than a consideration
20:11:03 <Ampera> and it's still more stable and in a better condition than either of my thousands of dollars when new high performance ultimate spec IBM, biggest name in blue since the sky, servers.
20:13:35 <Halcyon> The biggest thing that pisses me off about enterprise servers and other gear is the proprietary nature of it. They do it on purpose to lock you in so you basically keep renewing your infrastructure with their shit
20:13:44 <Halcyon> It would be too expensive to overhaul it all
20:14:32 <Halcyon> Same with enterprise backend systems like SAP, companies spend millions upon millions building and maintaining these systems... if they suck, they are stuck with them until EOL
20:14:38 <Ampera> Big business has big wallets and don't often have the techs responsible for the dough out
20:14:49 <Halcyon> No, they don't. That's absolutely correct
20:15:10 <Ampera> In other news I am jokingly being a Nazi on AfterNET
20:15:19 <Halcyon> Although back before I joined the cops, I worked for a large Telco (2nd largest in Australia at the time). Our CIO actually had an IT background and listened to us
20:15:25 <Halcyon> The CEOs couldn't give a shit as long as stuff worked
20:16:22 <Halcyon> But that was back before IT services were outsourced, we did everything from run our own IT Helpdesk to hire our own full-time DBA's and developers
20:16:33 <Halcyon> Hah OK ? Why are we a nazi today?
20:16:47 <Ampera> because claiming there is only one pure race is funny
20:16:55 <Halcyon> But there is?
20:16:57 <Ampera> and also almost uniquely legal where I life
20:17:02 <Halcyon> Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes :)
20:17:07 <Halcyon> Looks like you're out Ampera :P
20:17:49 <Ampera> Close enough to Aryan to survive in the new world order.
20:18:09 <Halcyon> I'm Nordic, I'm as white as you can get
20:18:14 <Halcyon> Even in the sun I don't tan
20:18:31 <Ampera> I'm German, and I do tan.
20:18:40 <Ampera> I have the amazing ability to maintain an arm tan throughout the winter.
20:18:54 <Halcyon> Speaking of black vs. white: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqRltyS3iyI
20:18:58 <Halcyon> Fucking cute birds
20:19:42 <Ampera> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhvxDzWbNmA
20:20:09 <Halcyon> Video unavailable
20:20:09 <Halcyon> The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
20:20:17 <Halcyon> Because apparently we aren't part of the world
20:20:22 <Ampera> I hoped that would be the case, just to show that America > Australia
20:20:28 <Halcyon> What a dick
20:20:42 <Ampera> You're the second person in the last 5 minutes to call me a dick.
20:20:48 <Halcyon> Not you
20:20:52 <Halcyon> The dick who uploaded it
20:21:04 <Ampera> That was YouTube and UMG
20:21:23 <Ampera> These are the direct album rips that YouTube has agreements with almost everyone to put on YouTube
20:21:25 <Halcyon> I'm guessing I'm not missing out on much though... 3000 views
20:21:30 <Ampera> it's where I, erm, get all of my music
20:21:36 <Ampera> It's just Ebony and Ivory.
20:21:50 <Halcyon> It's supposed to be in perfect harmony though
20:22:16 <Halcyon> Oooh new Big Clive video
20:22:16 <Ampera> Song about racial equality is not allowed to be watched in the land downy soft
20:22:17 <Halcyon> :)
20:22:24 <Halcyon> Oh please
20:22:26 <Ampera> You fancy him, I know that.
20:22:30 <Halcyon> Who?
20:22:45 <Ampera> The rare and endangered Manx Bear.
20:22:48 <Halcyon> If you don't call your dearest friends cunts and dickheads down here, you're odd
20:22:54 <Halcyon> Oh gawd no
20:23:02 <Halcyon> I don't go for bears thank you
20:23:13 <Ampera> you are one ya spastic
20:23:26 <Halcyon> I am the exact opposite of a bear
20:23:32 <Halcyon> Even down to being completely clean shaven
20:23:45 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) Changing hosts
20:23:45 Join: DogWomble ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:23:51 <Halcyon> Even down in my nether regions
20:23:52 <Halcyon> :P
20:24:09 <Ampera> There's a reason they call it nether regoins, because it's sure like hell down there
20:25:38 <Halcyon> :P
20:28:15 <Ampera> now I need to figure out what to do with my server.
20:28:35 <Ampera> One thing I want to do is set up a PXE server, so I can have the awesome that is network boot
20:31:21 <Halcyon> I've thought about doing that
20:31:31 <Ampera> So have I, but it seems like such a pain in the ass
20:31:36 <Halcyon> Yeh it is
20:31:40 <Halcyon> Which is why I haven't done it
20:31:52 <Ampera> but being able to have live Linux to any machine I want so long as I have a network cable nearby is fuckin awesome
20:32:36 <Halcyon> As far as I know, you need to create machine images
20:32:42 <Halcyon> Also, drivers are a prick
20:32:56 <Ampera> who gives a shit about drivers when you have Arch Linux?
20:33:17 <Ampera> I should be able to have Arch to any machine I want that could boot it normally, why not?
20:33:19 <Halcyon> Well you let me know how you go with it :)
20:33:31 <Ampera> I have no idea what I'm doing, so I could be bullshit levels of wrong
20:33:46 <Ampera> I also need to buy a domain one of these days for email purposes.
20:34:54 <Ampera> Halcyon, .de
20:35:02 <Halcyon> Heh
20:35:17 <Ampera> .deez nuts, hah goteem
20:35:27 <Ampera> alright imma go slit my face for that one
20:37:11 <Halcyon> I have my own domain
20:37:15 <Halcyon> No mailserver though
20:37:28 <Halcyon> Probably could run up an AWS one though
20:37:40 <Ampera> I've heard mailservers are incredibly annoying to set up
20:37:47 <Ampera> lol, Halcyon, I made Polesch mad the other day
20:37:58 <Halcyon> The last time I configured a mail server was about 13 years ago using MS Exchange
20:38:04 <Halcyon> Haven't touched one since
20:38:10 <Halcyon> Oh yeh? What did you do to him?
20:38:15 <Ampera> Yeah now there's a load of security bullshjit you need to deal with before anyone will accept your email
20:38:34 <Ampera> Well he was getting upset he couldn't compile some obscure medical program on his Fedora install
20:38:43 <Ampera> so I made the comment that I don't know why I never have these problems
20:38:56 <Ampera> he then challeneged me to do it, if I was so brilliant sorta thing
20:39:21 <Ampera> I was able to download, manually resolve and download all dependencies, and compile the program in around 30 minutes or so
20:39:38 <Halcyon> Heh
20:39:39 <Ampera> and a bunch of that was dicking around trying to figure out why CUDA wasn't working, but as it turns out he wasn't needing CUDA anyways
20:39:46 <Halcyon> Sometimes shit like that needs a fresh pair of eyes
20:39:50 <Halcyon> I've been there, done that
20:39:55 <Ampera> I think it's just his distro
20:40:15 <Ampera> I always hear people getting pissed at this stuff not working, but I've never had dependency or any other sorts of problems like this to the scale people make them out to be on Arch.
20:40:37 <Ampera> Evertyhing sort of Just Works™
20:40:45 <Halcyon> I'm not a programmer, so *shrug*
20:40:53 <Ampera> barely am I
20:42:11 <Ampera> Anyways, I hope this server gives me a chance to get more acquainted with FreeBSD.
20:42:40 <Ampera> I have some really neat stuff planned, like an always standing by desktop environment with a set of preconfigured programs ready for use anywhere in the world using appropriate hardware and a connection
20:43:04 <Ampera> I hope to understand better how to use ZFS, and have a highly compressed backup system for all my files.
20:45:53 <Halcyon> Do some tests with compression, as you know, many files don't compress well (or at all)
20:46:11 <Halcyon> You'll just be pissing away resources trying to compress some files
20:46:27 <Halcyon> I just use a low level of GZIP I think? It's almost real time.
20:47:06 <Ampera> Since this is going to be rarely accessed backup storage (maybe flushed and refreshed once a week), I'm fine with dumping some resources into something like on the fly xz
20:48:01 <Halcyon> I tried high compression on my 2nd NAS
20:48:07 <Halcyon> It just slows things down for no gain
20:48:25 <Halcyon> But then again, most of my files are image, video and audio files
20:48:33 <Ampera> I'll have to look into what I want to backup, since i intend to stuff /everything/ onto a 2TB drive
20:49:16 <Halcyon> That's where your different datasets come in though. I have a "Reference" folder which is mostly manuals and documents. They compress well and that has a different compression setting to my media share.
20:49:42 <Ampera> I wouldn't bother doing it to my video stuff, that's already compressed
20:49:55 <Halcyon> Exactly. I just left it at the default compression for ZFS
20:50:05 <Ampera> I wouldn't use file system level compression I don't think
20:50:05 <Halcyon> Since it's real time, it makes no difference to speed
20:50:08 <Ampera> I'd use file by file
20:50:11 <Halcyon> Yup
20:50:14 <Ampera> and this would just be for backups
20:50:37 <Halcyon> With ZFS you can change compression and it will only effect new files
20:51:00 <Ampera> I'd still not want to do it, and I will not be using ZFS on my backup drives
20:51:05 <Ampera> because it's just too complicated and too hard to work with
20:51:16 <Ampera> I'll be using either UFS or Ext4
20:51:32 <Halcyon> Have a play with it, it will also depend on what NAS system you'll be using
20:51:47 <Ampera> FreeBSD
20:52:12 <Halcyon> You can virtualise FreeNAS, but ideally you need a dedicated controller for your storage pool that you can pass through to the VM
20:52:20 <Ampera> but why would I do that?
20:52:28 <Halcyon> Otherwise if it's completely virtualised, you need to disable scrubs etc or you can corrupt data
20:52:37 <Ampera> I have a rule no virtualization
20:52:42 <Ampera> not on this server
20:52:42 <Halcyon> So that FreeNAS and ZFS can communicate directly with the controller
20:52:53 <Halcyon> ZFS doesn't like "separation" from real hardware
20:52:54 <Ampera> I will also not be using FreeNAS
20:53:03 <Halcyon> You know FreeNAS is FreeBSD right?
20:53:17 <Ampera> Yes, but it's a modified and specialized distro
20:53:22 <Ampera> I will be using stock FreeBSD
20:53:28 <Halcyon> It is specialised
20:53:29 <Ampera> as the single and sole operating system for all tasks
20:53:38 <Halcyon> Fair enough
20:53:44 <Halcyon> As I said, experiment and find what works for you
20:53:56 <Ampera> ZFS will be an experiment, but all NAS functionality will be primarily access through SFTP
20:54:01 <Ampera> *accessed
20:54:27 <Ampera> There will likely be an additional FTP server for third party, low security usage (like giving people files or having people give me files)
20:55:20 <Halcyon> I'm starting to experiment with something like OwnCloud for that kind of thing
20:56:20 <Ampera> I also have another rule, but it's more of a general one, keep third party web interfaces to a minimum
20:57:17 <Halcyon> I prefer web interfaces, but of course none of them are accessible to the outside world
20:57:33 <Halcyon> For example, I have 2FA to administer my wireless network
20:57:43 <Ampera> What is OwnCloud?
20:58:08 <Halcyon> You can run your own cloud server. Sort of like your own private Google Drive
20:58:09 <Ampera> looks like a web based file sharing solution
20:58:12 <Halcyon> Yep
20:58:16 <Ampera> but why
20:58:24 <Halcyon> For sharing with others etc...
20:58:28 <Ampera> the exact same thing can be done with SFTP, and likely with way less overhead
20:58:31 <Halcyon> Don't need a client other than a browser
20:58:40 <Ampera> FTP, which also has a permission system and wide browser support
20:58:43 <Halcyon> Also supports mobile devices
20:58:57 <Halcyon> FTP is old school
20:58:58 <Ampera> SFTP and FTP clients are widely available on Android and iOS
20:59:09 <Ampera> So?
20:59:13 <Ampera> It works
20:59:16 <Ampera> and it works well
20:59:20 <Halcyon> Yes but if you're collaborating with others (which I am), people don't want to download extra shit to their devices
20:59:26 <Ampera> git
20:59:42 <Ampera> also can't web browsers upload to FTP servers?
20:59:50 <Ampera> I've actually never tested that out
20:59:57 <Halcyon> *shrug*
21:00:25 <Ampera> even still Windows NT has come with an FTP client on it since before it was called Windows NT
21:00:30 <Halcyon> You can use FTP with OwnCloud as well
21:00:40 <Halcyon> It just adds another way of interfacing with your services
21:00:41 <Ampera> but I'd want to use FTP specifically to not use OwnCloud
21:00:52 <Halcyon> What about encryption?
21:00:56 <Ampera> FTPS
21:01:03 <Halcyon> Again, clients, downloads, fucking around
21:01:07 <Ampera> no?
21:01:11 <Halcyon> Why not no?
21:01:15 <Halcyon> I can't FTPS from my phone
21:01:16 <Ampera> FTPS is also supported by most web browsers
21:01:21 <Ampera> I can
21:01:31 <Ampera> FTPS is just FTP with SSL/TLS
21:01:45 <Halcyon> How do I upload using a browser on my phone?
21:02:00 <Ampera> drag and drop :P
21:02:08 <Halcyon> That just opens the file :P
21:02:09 <Ampera> at that point you'd have to download /an/ app
21:02:27 <Halcyon> Anyway, it's past 2100, I need to get dinner started
21:02:34 <Ampera> it's currently 5AM here
21:02:42 <Halcyon> Go to bed you freak
21:02:43 <Ampera> and I've been up since idk and haven't sleeps for idk
21:02:47 <Ampera> I need to pee first
21:03:05 <Halcyon> Have fun
21:03:11 <Ampera> need to get up to do that
21:03:16 <Ampera> not sure if I want to go through that hassle
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