// #eevblog — 2019-02-25
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00:49:03 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:55:19 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
01:55:18 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:56:43 <jackbrown> What should I check with a DMM to see why this brushless motor doesn't work ? it's a fan motor https://ibb.co/k54HV8s
02:43:10 Join: www2 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:49:14 <www2> hi i wand to know what the that 25.4 mm is a DIP 11 packed?
02:50:02 <T3sl4> the what?
02:55:10 <www2> I mean DIP 22 packed
02:55:36 <T3sl4> "what the that"?
02:56:51 <www2> sorry i wand to know that this part the same pin pitch as a dip 22: http://www.zhi-hao.com/imageRepository/a2851e88-8d49-43bc-9ddc-224efadfc2ed.jpg
02:57:56 <T3sl4> no idea
02:58:07 <T3sl4> hm, missing pin, might be a DIP24 instead
02:58:20 <T3sl4> there's no such thing as a DIP22, not standard anyway
02:58:59 <www2> i know is more as a base line for my cad drawings
02:59:00 <T3sl4> but that would be less than 2.54mm pitch, who knows
02:59:32 <T3sl4> if you can't get a better drawing from the manufacturer, you might be better off, y'know, just buying a part that actually gives a damn about being able to use it =)
03:01:33 <www2> this is the manufacturer http://en.zhi-hao.com/products_detail/productId=78.html
03:02:25 <DHess_US> Oh, 22 pin DIP on a display? I can believe that although 6x8 multiplexing doesn't require that many.
03:02:31 <T3sl4> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
03:03:52 <DHess_US> The drawing shows a non-standard pin pitch.
03:04:24 <DHess_US> 0.1" is 2.54mm but it shows 2.31mm for some reason.
03:05:11 <DHess_US> The Soviets made some cloned IC packages like that. They looked like standard 0.1" and that is what they were copied from but they were *not* 2.54mm
03:07:24 <DHess_US> They might have used extra pins for more stability. 14 pins even with 0.6" spacing would be marginal.
03:08:07 <DHess_US> The width is also non-standard. No DIP socket is going to fit that.
03:08:09 <T3sl4> i thought soviet stuff was 2.5mm because it was close enough by eye but definitely didn't fit, say in larger than DIP8 sizes
03:08:48 <DHess_US> Oh, I assumed soemthing like that. I was just saying that it wasn't the same even though they used it on cloned western parts.
03:09:56 <T3sl4> yeah, just agreeing
03:11:16 <DHess_US> That display is also 0.4" wide which is weird but I would expect that of a display. Use two SIP sockets.
03:11:47 <DHess_US> Either the drawing is wrong or 2.31mm is some standard I'm not familiar with.
03:12:37 <DHess_US> My guess is the drawing is wrong and the 25.4 should actually be 27.94
03:14:08 <www2> and this is not the only one that i have found with a 25.4 error: https://datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Made-in-China-FJ3661AH_C47471.pdf
03:19:04 <DHess_US> It might not be an error. Displays sometimes use non-standard connector dimentions.
03:19:55 <DHess_US> Buy one and find out.
03:21:15 <www2> Or send a mail
03:23:06 <T3sl4> or buy one that actually has dimensions ;)
03:40:33 Join: AndrevS ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:43:21 Join: steve31 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:54:02 <DHess_US> EEVBlog forums checked. Now on to my next weekend task.
04:54:02 <EEVBlog> If you keep saying that, I'm gonna hold you upside down and shake you until all the electrons fall out, DHess_US!
04:55:01 <Ampera> lol it picked up heck in checked
04:56:11 Quit: steve31 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:58:39 <DHess_US> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U7x69S2-Nqs/UTqwzjiURbI/AAAAAAAAFPQ/XrHRRpcTYoc/s1600/Wizard-of-Oz-22.gif
05:07:52 <DHess_US> https://jaydeanhcr.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/ngbbs4d6926a271195.jpg
05:09:12 <DHess_US> one of my favorite short short science fiction stories, https://archive.org/stream/Fantasy_Science_Fiction_v052n02_1977-02/Fantasy__Science_Fiction_v052n02_1977-02#page/n60/mode/1up
05:29:23 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
05:43:02 <DHess_US> Huh, they found more fake footage of the Apollo program, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_iLBbjqRnk
05:49:37 Quit: www2 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
06:52:30 Join: www2 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
09:05:04 <coppice> DHess_US: I love the conspiracy theory that the production of 2001 was a cover for filming the fake moon landings. 2001 was made in the UK. I kinda think the US government would at least fake it in the US. Its not like they don't have area 51 all set up ready for the job.
09:10:30 <mrpackethead> coppice, how do we know you are not a conspirator?
09:10:48 <coppice> you don't, and should be constantly suspicious of me
09:23:22 <coppice> my first job was just across the road from the MGM studio in Boreham Wood where 2001 was made...... you have reason to be suspicious
09:25:33 Quit: AndrevS ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:28:38 Quit: www2 ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:37:51 <Ampera> coppice, I have a natural suspicion of every single person, thing, and concept I encounter.
09:59:41 <Halcyon> Morning all
10:00:54 <Ampera> hi Halcyon
10:00:56 <Ampera> how do
10:01:10 <Halcyon> Just woke up, kettle hasn't boiled yet *rubs eyes*
10:01:20 <steve30> o/
10:01:24 <Halcyon> Heya Steve
10:01:24 <Ampera> maybe if you had an electric kettle
10:01:31 <Halcyon> Nah, fire is better
10:01:40 <Halcyon> It takes about the same time
10:01:48 <Ampera> Halcyon, did I ever show you the text editor I was making?
10:02:35 <Halcyon> I remember you talking about it, I don't think you showed me
10:02:56 <Ampera> lemme make some quick screenshots, unless you want to mess around with it
10:02:59 <Ampera> I have it up on gitlab
10:03:17 <Halcyon> I don't have a lot of time today, I have paperwork to finish off which is due this afternoon
10:03:24 <Halcyon> But later, yes
10:03:29 <Ampera> lemme make some screenshots then give me a moment
10:04:52 * steve30 has coffee :)
10:05:15 * Halcyon looks at Steve with jealous eyes
10:05:54 <steve30> *grin*
10:06:40 <Ampera> http://prntscr.com/mplab2 http://prntscr.com/mplagz http://prntscr.com/mplalw http://prntscr.com/mplaq7 http://prntscr.com/mplav8 http://prntscr.com/mplaz8
10:07:40 <Ampera> Showing a few different operating modes of the editor interface, one is on xterm with 8 colours, and the other is on Alacritty which has full 256 colour support
10:08:09 <Ampera> One shows the ability to disable the sides of the editor UI, and another shows the editor in monochrome on xterm
10:08:38 <Ampera> and the one with all the Ps is a currently broken (possibly due to an ncurses bug) mode using fanicer box drawing characters
10:19:42 * steve30 hugs Halcyon
10:24:52 <Halcyon> Looks good
10:25:02 <Halcyon> You going to add support for line numbers?
10:25:07 <Halcyon> *hugs* Steve
10:25:31 <Halcyon> I suppose you have it in the corner already but down the left side is where I like them
10:25:43 <Halcyon> Or the option to set the disk offset to a file would be awesome too :)
10:25:58 <Halcyon> Sorry, not set, view
10:26:09 <Ampera> Yes of course there will be line numbering
10:26:13 <Ampera> what do you mean by disk offset?
10:26:32 <Halcyon> So the binary or hex sector number of a file
10:26:55 <Ampera> why would anyone need that
10:27:01 <Halcyon> I use them all the time
10:27:04 <Ampera> for what
10:27:08 <Halcyon> My work
10:27:15 <Ampera> to do what
10:27:29 <Halcyon> It's mostly DF/Cyber security guys who use disk/file offsets
10:27:43 <Ampera> I mean if the file is fragmented that's not of massive use to you anyways
10:27:59 <Halcyon> For example, I can verify my results that I can produce by showing the starting sector to a file of interest on the disk
10:28:03 <Ampera> but no that's not on my mind of things to do
10:28:28 <Ampera> I first need to get text management working, character input, file writing, encoding stuff
10:28:43 <Halcyon> Do an ASCII version of Clippy :P
10:29:17 <Ampera> I plan to have pretty interesting things like cursor support, and high configurablility via menus instead of config files
10:29:35 <Halcyon> So like EDIT.COM
10:29:35 <Halcyon> :P
10:29:37 <Ampera> I'd like to have the ability to define your own text highlighting scheme via a menu
10:29:54 <steve30> 'It looks like you're trying to make a text editor. Do you need any help?'
10:29:55 <Ampera> More sophisticated than edit, but that comparison was made
10:30:07 <Halcyon> Exactly Steve :)
10:30:19 <Ampera> It's meant to replace nano in my day to day use
10:30:46 <Halcyon> A useful feature would be column-based highlighting, instead of just click and drag selecting lines of text
10:31:13 <Ampera> I plan to eventually add IDE style features, like multiple files open at once, being able to switch between using a terminal, etc
10:31:21 <Ampera> column based highlighting?
10:31:25 <Halcyon> For example, in Word if you hold ALT+click/drag, you can select a vertical block of text. Very handy for fixed character spacing
10:32:07 <Ampera> I'll look into it.
10:32:29 <Ampera> https://gitlab.com/ampera/ampera-text-editor
10:32:31 <Halcyon> In LibreOffice you have to turn it on (Edit > Selection Mode > Block Area)
10:32:35 <Ampera> current version is here, but it doesn't edit text yet
10:32:56 <Ampera> This isn't meant to be a word processor much really, it's intended to be a generic text editor with lotsa nice features.
10:33:03 <Halcyon> No, I know
10:33:19 <Halcyon> But block selection is awesome if you want to copy a bunch of values from the middle of a row of text
10:33:32 <Ampera> program is already 128k, interesting
10:33:46 <Halcyon> Or for example, if you want to copy a block of values but disregard the comments on each line
10:34:41 <Ampera> Yeah I can imagine the benefits, I'll look into it when I work on cursor support
10:47:06 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
11:04:21 <steve30> I've just been reading this
11:04:22 <steve30> https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7883/47202266371_1634c472ba_o.png
11:16:48 <DHess_US> Now I miss the LT1088. *cry*
11:18:56 <DHess_US> https://twitter.com/klara_sjo/status/1099444910091128832
11:24:51 Join: Mike ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:26:19 Nick: Mike is now known as MenhirMike
11:29:26 <MenhirMike> Hello, everyone! I'm trying to get more into electronics and want to get an oscilloscope (for learning purposes), but not sure how big I need to go without breaking the bank. I'm seeing a Rigol DS1102E which is 100 MHz, 2 Channels, 1 GSa/s sampling. For the stuff that gets usually connected to an Arduino or Raspberry Pi (e.g., Displays, maybe an SD
11:29:26 <MenhirMike> Card, temperature/water sensors and the like), is that sufficient?
11:33:23 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Another auction with tons of comms and other test gear (US,UK,EU) https://t.co/46OhVGGuKP
11:34:29 <DHess_US> MenhirMike, The DS1000E series is fast enough but has some limitations compared to the DS1000Z series which make it undesirable.
11:38:17 <MenhirMike> DHess_US Thanks! Would a DS1054Z be a better choice then? (50 MHz, 4 Analogue channels, 250 MSa/s for 4 channels) Or do I want something with digital channels, like the MSO1074Z?
11:42:07 <mrpackethead> MenhirMike, how much you can spend?
11:42:15 Quit: MenhirMike ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
11:42:45 <mrpackethead> I've had a 1102E on my bench at home for ages.
11:42:52 <mrpackethead> was my first DSO
11:46:09 <DHess_US> MenhirMike, DSOs an especially the DS1000Z series make pretty poor logic analyzers so that is up to you.
11:46:31 <DHess_US> Oh, mrpackethead killed him. Never mind.
11:48:22 Join: MenhirMike ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:50:17 <mrpackethead> hes back
11:50:19 <MenhirMike> mrpackethead I don't have a set budget. I know I'll have to spend a couple of hundreds, but also don't want to spend a thousand (US Dollars in my case). Ideally, something around 400 USD - but I don't want to buy crap I regret later, but also want to use it primarily as a learning tool, so not going overboard either.
11:50:32 <MenhirMike> Sorry, my client disconnected
11:50:42 <mrpackethead> I was going to suggest the new rigol 5000
11:50:54 <mrpackethead> that would be a LOT of scope but its going to cost you $900
11:52:32 <MenhirMike> It definitely looks neat, looking at the specs of the MSO5074. Yeah, I'd have to sleep on that for a night or two, but as said, don't want to purchase something I need to replace the first time I try to do something "serious"
11:53:14 <mrpackethead> I have had a 1102E for ages, ( maybe 10 years )
11:53:23 <mrpackethead> its jsut work and worked.
11:53:34 <mrpackethead> its now my home scope.
11:53:59 <mrpackethead> I have a Keysight 4000 at work, and just bought 2 Rigol 5000's
11:54:17 <mrpackethead> the 5000's will be on workstations for general work
11:55:38 <MenhirMike> The Logic Analyzer is a super neat feature as well, currently using an Arduino with some self-built software as a crappy LA. Hmmm... Now I want that 5000, but I can get 3 1102E's for that. Will have to think about it, but thank you very much, that was helpful!
11:56:08 <mrpackethead> The LA is crap
11:56:38 <mrpackethead> btw, you can 'hack' the 5074 to make it fully featured, with just a very simple software change.
11:58:28 <MenhirMike> Was Keysight called Agilent before? I wrote down that Dave had an Agilent InfiniiVision MSO-X 3054A in an older video (which brought me down the lane of Oscilloscopes to begin with).
11:58:39 <mrpackethead> yes
11:59:07 <MenhirMike> The LA a pity. I guess it's one of these "We put in on the box as a marketing feature" features then.
11:59:54 <DHess_US> MenhirMike, DSOs an especially the DS1000Z series make pretty poor logic analyzers so that is up to you.
12:00:44 <DHess_US> HP -> Agilent -> Keysight
12:01:18 <coppice> DHess_US: what do you dislike about scope based logic analysers?
12:01:21 <DHess_US> The DSO LAs work, but they are very basic and some are more basic than others.
12:01:45 <MenhirMike> DHess_US It would be a neat bonus feature, but thankfully not super important (well, I2C would be nice). Thinking of an MSO for the digital channels, but there's a lot of datasheets to read and compare now
12:01:57 <DHess_US> coppice, the Rigol ones only work on the display record. Of course that is a problem in general with the Rigol DSOs.
12:02:37 <mrpackethead> DHess_US, some of it comes down to personal preference.
12:02:55 <mrpackethead> I use a saelae logic16 a lot for LA
12:03:22 <mrpackethead> I find it easy to see the data on a pc.
12:03:26 <mrpackethead> others like it on the scope
12:03:38 <DHess_US> I would find that type of operation practically useless. I don't need a logic analyzer for something which will only fit on the screen anyway. That is argulably worse than a word recognizer since it cannot even perform as well.
12:04:19 <mrpackethead> but there are times you want to see your digital and analog together
12:04:28 <mrpackethead> so, it sometimes comes down to use-case
12:04:33 <mrpackethead> I am fortuatne, i have both
12:04:42 <DHess_US> Sure, but when I need to do that, I need to see more than will fit in one display record.
12:05:06 <MenhirMike> If the Oscilloscope has a storage mechanism (seeing some with a USB Port for that), could I take that data then into a PC with some first- or third party software for better logic analysis?
12:05:21 <mrpackethead> as you say, one of the challenges with a USB/PC based LA, is that its USB based, and that can limit it
12:05:35 <DHess_US> MenhirMike, yes but I don't know how practical that is.
12:05:45 <mrpackethead> DHess_US, i've done it with a python script
12:05:53 <coppice> USB3 wouldn't be much of a limit, but they are usually only USB2
12:05:55 <mrpackethead> but it was as special case, and was painful.
12:09:21 <coppice> mrpackethead: how's the new rigol scope?
12:09:35 <DHess_US> My view on the shortcoming of Rigol's DSOs can be found in the forums. I consider them all defective by design and would never recommend them to anybody however I also know that many users are under tight budget restraints and almost any DSO is better than no DSO.
12:09:58 <DHess_US> The new Rigol is also defective by design.
12:10:12 <coppice> All scopes have serious limitations. Just roll with it.
12:10:27 <mrpackethead> Yeah. My 18000 Keysight has issues
12:10:30 <mrpackethead> $18000
12:10:35 <mrpackethead> its NOT perfect.
12:11:05 <mrpackethead> DHess_US, the value proposition of the $1000 Rigols is well in excess of the $18k keysight.
12:11:27 <mrpackethead> coppice, my biggest whinge is how noisy it is.
12:11:30 <DHess_US> Perhapse, but some don't have variable bandwidth with signal amplitude and broken transient response. Even some $1000 dollar DSOs do not.
12:11:37 <mrpackethead> lol. the fans are noisy.
12:11:56 <mrpackethead> DHess_US, so you've got at least one?
12:12:19 <DHess_US> One what? Rigol? Nope. But I have many which don't suffer from the problems I just listed.
12:12:28 <coppice> The fan should be easy to replce if its that annoying
12:12:36 <mrpackethead> coppice, the rigols have some UI issues, that i think they could have overcome by thiking harder
12:12:50 <DHess_US> I evaluated Rigol DSOs many years ago, before the DS1000Z was even released, and concluded that I wanted nothing to do with them.
12:12:54 <coppice> all scopes have UI issues
12:13:24 <mrpackethead> but overall, bang for buck, its great. and they get used everyday, and are part of the fab that makes me money
12:13:38 <mrpackethead> so, even if DHess_US thinks they are rubbish, they do a job
12:14:06 <coppice> they could certainly be worse. they could be Tek scopes
12:14:08 <DHess_US> My goto DSO is a Tektronix 2232.
12:15:21 <mrpackethead> oh, and lack of 50ohm input thats not great.
12:15:29 <mrpackethead> and yeah, they could be Tek.
12:15:33 * T3sl4 buhs at mrpackethead
12:15:51 <coppice> I actually like scopes without 50 ohm inputs. they get blown up too easily
12:15:53 <mrpackethead> and i just hate Tek, because no reason, but i just hate them.
12:16:06 <mrpackethead> just because coppice said
12:16:09 <DHess_US> The only thing I miss in the Tektronix 2232 is that it cannot calculate RMS but neither can the Rigol DSOs so they wouldn't help me there.
12:16:36 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, thanks for your comment on Z axis milling
12:17:14 <MenhirMike> Any thoughts on Siglent as a Brand? At first I thought it
12:17:17 <T3sl4> it's pretty generic :P
12:17:31 <MenhirMike> 's a knock-off of Agilent, like a genuine Sorny or Pamavision Television
12:17:45 <T3sl4> mind i haven't had to specify milling steps beyond traditional route
12:17:54 <T3sl4> in any case, talk to pcb fab as always :P
12:18:08 <DHess_US> I lost interest in Siglent after they persecuted people for selling used instruments.
12:18:08 <mrpackethead> this is what i'm thiking of doign
12:18:09 <mrpackethead> https://a360.co/2Ixyl9m
12:18:30 <mrpackethead> 3d pic, from fusion, it takes a little time to load
12:19:08 <T3sl4> ah nice, js (and probably webgl) viewer
12:19:20 <mrpackethead> fusion 360 is great
12:19:23 <mrpackethead> ( and free )
12:19:25 <MenhirMike> DHess_US Thanks, just googled that. Yeah, that's a hard "No".
12:19:59 <mrpackethead> i want to create a 'lid' for my other board, that doubles as a case and a rf sheild
12:20:04 <T3sl4> so, just to make pockets in a cover?
12:20:13 <T3sl4> ah, that's shielding too
12:20:24 <mrpackethead> yup
12:20:37 <T3sl4> yeah, that should be doable, but you will need the setup and machining cost, however they work that out
12:20:44 <mrpackethead> its not that expensive
12:20:53 <T3sl4> probably as good as anything else in the qtys you're doing things
12:20:54 <mrpackethead> i was really pleasantly suprized.
12:21:08 <mrpackethead> first run of this is 6500 units
12:21:14 <T3sl4> this is like 30x50mm?
12:21:20 <mrpackethead> roughly
12:21:25 <coppice> DHess_US: what did they do to people selling used stuff?
12:21:44 <mrpackethead> 42x30
12:21:56 <T3sl4> coppice: they fundamentally misunderstood western secondary market law
12:22:49 <DHess_US> coppice, claimed it was unlawful and got them in trouble. And they didn't even do it legally. If it had been up to me, I would have ruled it misuse of copyright and voided all of their IP.
12:22:54 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
12:22:59 <MenhirMike> Siglent apparently used Trademark law against sellers: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-they-filed-a-_wrongful-trademark-claim_/
12:23:13 <mrpackethead> turns out i have one of those devices that was sold after the keysight fire.
12:23:15 <mrpackethead> doh.
12:23:20 <mrpackethead> that shoud'th ahve been
12:23:54 <DHess_US> Siglent then doubled and tripled downed on it before admitting to being sorry that they got caught and never making restitution. Fuck them.
12:24:15 <T3sl4> mrpackethead, what did they quote for the 6500?
12:24:22 <mrpackethead> I guess i shoud'nt say too much, but after a phone call, and an explaination of the situation, they have been very resonable and we came to a amacible deal.
12:24:25 <DHess_US> It was a typical public relations solution.
12:24:35 <coppice> If you won't deal with companies for being arseholes, you'll never deal with anyone
12:24:40 <mrpackethead> the orginal letter they sent out was dumb.
12:24:47 <mrpackethead> I was 2nd down the chain
12:24:59 <mrpackethead> I bought it off someone who bought it off the disposal company
12:25:09 <DHess_US> *shrug* Siglent went over the line, never admitted it, and never made restitutuion.
12:25:40 <mrpackethead> keysight, just was dumb, and used a lawyer, when a freindly phone call would have sufficed and most folks would have been really happy
12:25:44 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Scam of the day award goes to: https://t.co/ipYpYanyCx So blatant it's funny. Images ripped from various sites of course. The "team" photo is actually @OfficialXYO
12:26:18 <DHess_US> I couldn't follow the keysight thing. I don't understand what happened.
12:26:41 <coppice> So, Keysight is now learning its business practices from Siglent
12:27:05 <DHess_US> I read the forum discussion but it didn't make sense.
12:27:25 <mrpackethead> simple version of the story.
12:27:27 <mrpackethead> there was a fire
12:27:46 <coppice> but Keysight is American, so you would expect first contact to be an "I AM GOD AND YOU WILL OBEY" letter from a lawyer
12:28:29 <mrpackethead> a lot of gear that should have been destroyed after the fire, ( smoke damage, water damage, general suspect ) plus gear that was not keysight branded, and stuff that was being developed, made it onto the 2nd hand market
12:28:49 <mrpackethead> the company employed to do that disposal did a 'poor' job
12:29:15 <mrpackethead> keysight found out, and they really dont' want that stuff floating around
12:30:02 <mrpackethead> but they are being very resonable and if you are resonable back, I think its fair to say, you'll be in a better place than when you bought an old bit of possibly damaged 2nd hand kit
12:31:10 <coppice> mrpackethead: was it damaged by magic or non-magic smoke?
12:31:26 <mrpackethead> there was a forest fire, and the building got burnt
12:31:33 <mrpackethead> part of it burnt down.
12:31:41 <T3sl4> so unless there were fairies in that forest...
12:31:54 <MenhirMike> That seems to be the kind of issue where someone messes up, but owns up to it and at least tries to do the right thing. Companies mess up all the time (I work in IT, if I would only use companies that never messed up in a big way, i'd be using chisels and stone tablets) - but it's about how they deal with the aftermath. Some companies actually came
12:31:54 <MenhirMike> out of a mess up better than before because of how well they handled it.
12:32:12 <mrpackethead> all the faries are in this Channel T3sl4
12:32:48 <T3sl4> their disposal company messed up, it seems, but that's between the two of them; they still have to account for any merch they don't want out there
12:33:19 <T3sl4> could well be that they're suing but that could take years for the court to remedy
12:33:52 <MenhirMike> Yeah, it may not be their fault, but it is their problem
12:33:58 <T3sl4> exactly
12:35:19 <DHess_US> I want a DSO which can make gated spot noise measurements.
12:38:00 <DHess_US> Tektronix used to sell old company equipment and test models to employees. Then too many employees, probably just a couple, made a business of selling the stuff on the grey market so Tektronix stopped and had everything shredded instead.
12:38:38 <DHess_US> They would also support employees in their own projects but of course that ended long ago.
12:39:06 <DHess_US> So sometimes weird things would show up like an audio power amplifier built using Tektronix parts.
12:40:29 <T3sl4> heh
12:40:48 <T3sl4> yeah, that's something you probably want to put a, say, 10 year minimum before resale clause on
12:41:49 <DHess_US> I'm not sure exactly what the conditions on the sales were although I might be able to find out. I inheritted a 2246 and 2247 through that.
12:42:18 <DHess_US> I have the company receipts and they might say.
12:43:03 <DHess_US> But there was at least an understanding.
12:43:12 <MenhirMike> Companies often have a hard time figuring out who the seller is, so enforcement of clauses is hard at times. Takes only a few jerks to ruin it for everyone
12:43:20 <T3sl4> true that
12:54:26 <mrpackethead> yup. i had to stop the 'free' use of a 'resonable' number of low value parts for staff projects for that reason
12:54:46 <mrpackethead> i was very supportive of the guys doing some 'home' / 'self' projects
12:54:58 <mrpackethead> they were welcome to use a few parts from stock for them
12:55:13 <mrpackethead> but when 'resonable' started becomign entire 'reels' of parts
12:55:33 <T3sl4> that's unreelsonable
12:55:45 <MenhirMike> Heading out, thanks for all the advice, got some data sheets to read and some numbers to crunch now :)
12:55:55 <mrpackethead> thats funny T3sl4
12:57:12 Quit: MenhirMike ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
13:59:05 <Halcyon> Finally I can relax
13:59:08 <Halcyon> Stupid paperwork
14:00:44 * Ampera massages Halcyon
14:00:59 <Halcyon> Awww I need one of those
14:01:07 <Halcyon> I've been a bit tense the last few days
14:01:17 <Ampera> I'm always tense
14:01:20 <Ampera> past present and future
14:01:41 <Halcyon> Maybe you need a massage?
14:01:48 <Ampera> I want to get a drink but that requires going upstairs
14:01:54 <Ampera> nah massage isn't my kinda thing
14:02:02 <Halcyon> Is upstairs too far away?
14:02:10 <Ampera> for my fat ass, yes.
14:02:25 <Halcyon> Hehehe
14:02:32 <Halcyon> You need a water chiller or something in your room
14:02:47 <Ampera> you know I actually was thinking of something like that, but I'd have no place to put it
14:02:51 <Ampera> my room is /very/ packed
14:02:58 <Halcyon> Hmm
14:03:06 <Ampera> so my solution is to stop being lazy
14:03:11 <Ampera> but I'll stop being lazy later
14:03:15 <Halcyon> That's a good solution
14:03:18 <Halcyon> Hahah
14:04:04 <Ampera> I filed a bug report for the first time in my life.
14:04:52 <Halcyon> What for?
14:07:06 <Halcyon> Back shortly, just going to go mount my tape machine into my rack
14:08:11 <Ampera> ncurses, relating to drawing wide characters
14:15:50 * Halcyon ncurses at Ampera
14:16:12 <EEVBlog> Halcyon, That's not very nice!
14:24:30 <Halcyon> Heh
14:24:51 <Halcyon> Does linux have a tool to RDP into Windows boxes?
14:24:57 <Ampera> Yes.
14:25:08 <Halcyon> What's it called?
14:25:45 <Ampera> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Category:Remote_desktop
14:25:57 <Ampera> those are the options I know of, some are for VNC, some are for RDP, some both
14:26:38 <Halcyon> Nice
14:26:39 <Halcyon> Thanks
14:48:40 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Another Youtuber burnout, this time Strange Parts: https://t.co/eoi1F8sKcA
15:14:05 <Halcyon> This backup is going to take a while
15:14:11 <Halcyon> 100Mbps
15:14:26 <Halcyon> I think the limitation is the SCSI card
15:15:27 <DHess_US> I was there a couple months ago but at 1Gbps. It made me look into teaming solutions and 10Gbps networking.
15:15:32 <Halcyon> Well encryption + SCSI card
15:15:38 <Halcyon> With encryption off, it'll run at 200Mbps
15:16:02 <Halcyon> Oh the limitation isn't the network or the NAS. I can max out a 1Gbps link easily
15:16:12 <Halcyon> I'm using an old Core2 machine with an LTO2 tape drive
15:16:29 <Halcyon> Sadly the Core2 doesn't support AES-NI
15:16:49 <Ampera> Well there may or may not be something in the package I'm sending that will help you with that
15:17:05 <DHess_US> I remember running an early version of IPSEC opportunistic enryption on my LAN back during the Pentium era. It just worked and was amazing but even then, a Pentium CPU was too slow to do the encryption for a 100Mbit LAN. I can see though why the CIA and FBI banned the technology.
15:17:06 <Ampera> tomorrow I'll go about getting the box to get it all packaged up
15:17:49 <Halcyon> YAY! Can't wait Ampera
15:17:53 <Halcyon> I hope you didn't spend too much
15:18:02 <Ampera> for the package or the thing
15:18:06 <Halcyon> The package
15:18:14 <Ampera> regardless I'm not spending anything, that's what other people are for
15:18:17 <DHess_US> It encrypted every IP connection. Ping? Encrypted. ICMP? Encrypted. It was amzing.
15:18:18 <Halcyon> Heh
15:18:37 <Halcyon> DHess_US: That's awesome. I've always wondered why encrypted Ethernet isn't a thing
15:18:38 <DHess_US> And of course Windows SMB which was where the performance problem was.
15:20:03 <Halcyon> ROFL "Kim Jong Un vagina brows"
15:20:20 <DHess_US> Halcyon, the NSA and law enforcement saw it as a threat and took measures to prevent it. The NSA sabotaged the IPSEC specification. I forget the exact details but there are a couple of IP comapnies owned by agencies like the CIA which buy the patents or make patents to cover technology that they dont' want used.
15:20:45 <Halcyon> Yeh I could see how they would get sand in their vagina about that stuff
15:20:50 <DHess_US> And of course there was the whole Clipper Chip fiasco.
15:20:55 <Halcyon> They are fighting a losing battle with that kind of stuff
15:21:16 <DHess_US> Not really. They won. After the Clipper Chip fiasco, they just got better at subverting it.
15:21:27 <Ampera> I thought you were a proponent of governments dicking encryption, Halcyon
15:21:35 <Halcyon> I am... to a point
15:21:43 <DHess_US> They couldn't ban it because of political considerations but they were able to use other way to prevent adoption.
15:21:45 <Halcyon> But the reality is, Governments are in the dark these days
15:21:49 <Halcyon> Well... sort of
15:22:06 <Ampera> The issue is that I do not trust governments, and neither should you.
15:22:13 <Halcyon> This is why we mostly don't attack the front-line encryption anymore (although it still has its place)
15:22:24 <Ampera> Their power gets abused so easily letting them have the tools to see everything we're doing is a stupid idea
15:22:38 <DHess_US> They don't need to. They subverted various encryption scemes through social engineering.
15:22:50 <Halcyon> We've had this discussion and I've come to the conclusion that our Government operates very differently to yours
15:23:13 <Ampera> It's not about how it operates today, it's about who is in control tomorrow.
15:23:36 <Halcyon> Generally, our Government is very trustworthy when it comes to Policing and national security. You get a few nut jobs arguing about policies, but that's about it. Where they can't be trusted is with public infrastructure and things like that
15:23:38 <Ampera> Who is going to be there to tell the government to not go too far, and who will be able to define what is too far and not?
15:23:46 <DHess_US> NSA even subverted NIST so now nobody who knows what happened trusts NIST. That means the NSA can not longer secure US information systems because nobody trusts them or NIST.
15:24:13 <DHess_US> NSA also subverted RSA and CA (Computer Associates).
15:24:14 <Ampera> It may be today, but governments change, other people get elected.
15:24:15 <Halcyon> Yep and that's what happens when there isn't enough accountability
15:24:36 * Ampera shrugs
15:24:44 <Halcyon> I wish I could tell you about the hoops I have to jump through to get stuff done at work
15:24:55 <Halcyon> It can be over-bearing, but in a way, I see why it needs to be like that
15:24:57 <Ampera> I want the government to do things for the general good, and for them to have as little power as possible.
15:25:30 <Halcyon> At the end of the day, most crooks and terrorists are dumbasses. Encryption is generally not a problem.
15:26:24 <DHess_US> The system I was using eventually became this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeS/WAN
15:27:32 <Halcyon> I guess these days, point to point or point to multipoint encryption out of the box is so easy to set up and prolific, almost anyone can use it
15:27:37 <Halcyon> But most people don't care
15:28:19 <Halcyon> Most crooks still think that their private stuff on the iPhones is safe because it has a 6 digit PIN
15:28:36 <DHess_US> I don't use PINs short enough that I can remember them.
15:28:55 <Halcyon> I use KeePass
15:29:04 <Halcyon> 95% of the passwords I have no idea what they are
15:29:20 <DHess_US> The system I used wasn't applicaiton level encryption. It was implemented as part of the IP stack so *every* connection between two systems was encrypted. Everything.
15:29:30 <Ampera> My security infrastructure is rather unique, and once I get the server is about to be seriously overhauled.
15:29:47 <DHess_US> If you sent a ping, a single packet, it was encrypted.
15:29:55 <mrpackethead> that is not unique
15:29:55 <Halcyon> Good security isn't difficult these days, it's just about understanding and discipline.
15:30:06 <Ampera> I'm looking into my own password control system to replace what I have.
15:30:16 <DHess_US> Which was noticable when you first pinged a system because the first ping was delayed by the time to negotiate the encryption. After that, it worked normally.
15:30:16 <Ampera> No maybe unique wasn't the right word, I more meant, not a phone with a pin on it.
15:30:36 <Halcyon> (and not using passwords like Bollocks69 for everything)
15:30:40 <Ampera> I'd actually be better able to explain what I intend to do, and what I currently do when I get my new server up.
15:31:00 <mrpackethead> while your bring it up we'll hack it
15:31:21 <Halcyon> I only hack with a warrant :P
15:31:51 <Ampera> At the moment I don't have much to secure, everything is behind granted loosely stored, but incredibly long passwords (at least the things I care about).
15:32:07 <Ampera> The core of my setup is my ssh connection, which I believe is pretty secure.
15:32:08 <EEVBlog> NBN, HAH, more like No Broadband Network!
15:32:15 <Ampera> YES
15:32:15 <Halcyon> Using strong (and unique) passwords gets you 70% of the way there
15:32:22 <Ampera> hold on let me look at how rare that payload is
15:32:26 <Halcyon> lol, where did that come from?
15:32:29 <Halcyon> No one said NBN
15:32:36 <Ampera> I said connection
15:32:39 <Halcyon> Ahh
15:32:42 <Ampera> It's a completely random payload, I believe incredibly rare
15:33:07 <Halcyon> Like a rare Pokemon
15:33:10 <Ampera> 1/500 chance whenever someone says one of the words
15:33:18 <Ampera> even less if they hit one of the other possible payload lists
15:51:12 <Halcyon> Holy shit that is some big cable: https://youtu.be/ut5DXxK1dvk?t=113
15:53:30 <Halcyon> How the hell he didn't burn his fingers, I don't know
16:04:43 <DHess_US> I've seen similar things happen to power meters when high reactive power was present.
16:05:11 <DHess_US> "Wait a minute, I measure 240 volts and 40 amps. Why is the power meter showing zero? Why is the power meter smoking?"
16:06:19 <Halcyon> Heh
17:24:41 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:59:51 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: HEADS UP: 6 1/2 digit meters on ebay are about to double in price tomorrow, just say'n... #TheEEVblogEffect
18:52:03 <Halcyon> This guy is awesome: https://youtu.be/2h6JjWofmJQ?t=178
18:52:21 <Halcyon> He makes it looks so easy
19:42:36 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:45:54 Join: hasan93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:35:37 <Halcyon> What morons write tape backup software that can't span data sets across multiple tapes?
20:35:39 <Halcyon> FFS
21:12:46 <K> hello
21:30:02 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
21:30:03 Quit: hasan93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
22:18:27 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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22:29:06 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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22:29:56 Join: hsn93 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
22:45:07 Quit: hs1993 ([email protected]) EOF from client
22:45:08 Quit: hsn93 ([email protected]) EOF from client
23:43:43 Join: Guest|90015 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:43:50 <Guest|90015> HI
23:46:21 <Guest|90015> I want to buy PM300)
23:49:33 <Guest|90015> How to contact the seller for payment?
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