// #eevblog — 2019-01-21
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03:07:14 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
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03:13:12 <rust_collector> Halcyon: you are on now...
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03:14:39 <rust_collector> ok, just saying
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03:15:50 <rust_emitter> rust_collector: he just came on
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05:15:31 <Ampera> Australian internet connections are such stable things
05:15:43 <rust_collector> looks like it
05:18:36 <rust_collector> makes sense, I guess, as it is about the same size as the us of a, just with 20 people living there
05:19:27 <Ampera> Wasn't it one of you in here that just got done shitting on me for saying internet quality and speed might have a correlation with nation density?
05:20:04 <rust_collector> hmm, I think I saw something like that
05:20:25 <Ampera> I know coppice_ was part of that particular angry mob, but whatever.
05:21:05 <rust_collector> as long as there is fire and explosions... it is all good
05:21:27 <Ampera> Here's a question, what city is home to the best typewriters in the world?
05:22:21 <rust_collector> that is true
05:22:36 <Ampera> the correct answer is Chicago.
05:22:55 <rust_collector> ok
05:23:38 <rust_collector> so, do you mean people typing, or the machine typewriter?
05:23:53 <Ampera> I mean the Chicago Typewriter.
05:24:19 <Ampera> Unlike something like a fucking pitiful Selectric, the Chicago Typewriter can easily kill a large number of people.
05:24:54 <rust_collector> Chicago Typewriter is a 2017 South Korean television series starring Yoo Ah-in, Im Soo-jung and Go Kyung-pyo.
05:25:23 <Ampera> as I said, Korean TV would drive anybody to suicide
05:25:28 <Ampera> especially Koreans.
05:25:47 <Ampera> but that's not the Chicago Typewriter I'm particularly talking about.
05:27:58 <coppice_> australia has quite a high population density, because most of the country is empty
05:28:24 <Ampera> well if you section off parts of Australia, yes, but I'm not getting into this bonfire of a conversation again.
05:28:44 <rust_collector> hah
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05:55:44 <DHess_US> That was me. It has nothing to do with national density. It has to do with local density.
05:58:10 <Ampera> well I won't argue with you
06:06:37 <rust_collector> I wonder if we can have a thread about islam vs linux
06:46:35 <Ampera> what, did OpenSUSE become the official linux distro of ISIS or something?
06:47:32 <rust_collector> nah, I think they like their xboxes
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11:32:43 <T3sl4> oh nice, my CPU usage goes to 100% when i dump a shitton of serial commands to it
11:33:35 <T3sl4> as it should, because it's full of wait loops to ensure the output buffer stays free
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14:58:40 <Halcyon> \o/ T3sl4
14:59:11 * T3sl4 hugs Halcyon
14:59:20 <Halcyon> Nawww :)
14:59:56 <Halcyon> I've been manly today
15:00:04 <Ampera> Halcyon, it's cold out.
15:00:19 <Halcyon> Been taking off internal doors, replacing screws, putting new grease on hinges
15:00:24 <Halcyon> Is it Amps?
15:00:28 <Ampera> https://gyazo.com/ac9391fbcb443c348758f452da0c9a8c
15:00:30 <Ampera> it's cold out
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15:01:19 * Halcyon converts to real unit of measure
15:01:22 <Halcyon> Yes, it's quite cold
15:02:18 <Ampera> I don't know how to measure temperature in Cunt.
15:02:26 <Halcyon> Oh it's easy
15:02:31 <Halcyon> You just stick it up your ass :)
15:02:36 <Ampera> unless it's PCs, where I am much more familiar with the scale. It's just a matter of knowing what is cold or not.
15:02:44 <Ampera> Halcyon, how the fuck do you stick a hole inside of a hole?
15:02:56 <Halcyon> *shrug*
15:03:02 <Halcyon> You might need an adapter
15:03:11 <Ampera> Two ended dildo, got it.
15:03:16 <Halcyon> Exactly :)
15:03:21 <Halcyon> Borrow T3sl4's if you like
15:03:35 <Ampera> I'm not even sure if I'd want to shake his hand, tbh.
15:03:52 <Halcyon> That's a little harsh :)
15:04:01 <Halcyon> It's only jism
15:04:10 <Ampera> To be honest that would be the least of my concerns.
15:04:32 Quit: Arsewipe ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
15:04:50 <T3sl4> hey, my hands are dry
15:05:29 <Ampera> yes, but your wit is dryer.
15:05:57 <Ampera> Halcyon, do you like my hole? https://gyazo.com/f7efb31c3665b876117a458941c11bec
15:06:18 <Halcyon> Very pretty
15:07:00 <Ampera> I need to make a tunnel anti-hypotenusenal to get point to point for a high speed rail system.
15:07:18 <Halcyon> I see
15:07:26 <Halcyon> I don't play minecraft, Mark does though
15:07:34 <Ampera> How long has he?
15:07:45 <Halcyon> Played?
15:07:52 <Halcyon> 4 or so years
15:08:12 <Ampera> then this is likely before his time
15:08:22 <Ampera> playing a modified 2012 release
15:11:15 <Ampera> so besides redooring, how/what have you been doing Halcyon?
15:11:38 <Halcyon> Just housework and things today
15:11:41 <Halcyon> Back to work tomorrow
15:12:11 <Ampera> tomorrow is a very very special day
15:12:22 <Halcyon> ?
15:12:33 <Ampera> happy birthday, Halcyon
15:12:48 <Halcyon> My birthday isn't until April :P
15:12:59 <Ampera> who said I was talking about your birthday>?
15:13:19 <Halcyon> When you add a comma like that, you're implying you're wishing me a happy birthday
15:13:25 <Halcyon> I assume it's yours then?
15:13:32 <Ampera> aye
15:13:49 <Halcyon> Aww :) You could have a drink.... awww wait, no you can't
15:13:56 <Ampera> why not?
15:14:08 <Ampera> there's not age to drink in NY
15:14:10 <Ampera> *no
15:14:10 <Halcyon> Isn't 21 your silly legal age to purchase alcohol there?
15:14:24 <Ampera> yes it is
15:14:47 <Halcyon> So who will buy it for you?
15:14:54 <Ampera> nobody because I hate booze
15:15:00 <Ampera> I could have a gin and tonic without the gin
15:15:08 <Halcyon> If I were with you, I'd have a drink with you
15:15:16 <Halcyon> And T3sl4, I reckon he would be fun IRL
15:15:29 <Ampera> well I couldn't buy and/or drink alcohol in Australia in 45 minutes anyways
15:15:33 <Halcyon> Also he wouldn't mind if I got handsy :P
15:15:48 <Halcyon> True, but in 45 you can \o/
15:15:58 <Ampera> what?
15:16:04 <Halcyon> 45 minutes time
15:16:13 <Ampera> I said I couldn't in 45 minutes time, even if I was in Australia
15:16:27 <Halcyon> When does it tick over to midnight?
15:16:36 <Ampera> well 40 minutes now, but still no
15:16:47 <Halcyon> :P
15:16:57 <Ampera> not unless your underage drink laws exclude birthdays
15:17:18 <Halcyon> You're 18 from 0001 hrs on the day of your birth
15:17:41 <Ampera> that's news to me
15:17:41 <Halcyon> So yes, you literally could go out drinking on your birthday
15:17:54 <Ampera> I thought I was going to be 17
15:18:01 <Halcyon> I thought you were turning 18?
15:18:12 <Ampera> well you thought wrong
15:18:17 <Halcyon> Pfft
15:18:21 <Ampera> ya forgot my birthday and didn't even know how old I was
15:18:24 <Halcyon> Well then fuck ya :P
15:18:31 <Ampera> oh well I don't know how old you are nor when your birthday is either
15:18:38 <Halcyon> I barely know when Mark's birthday is. It's in my phone :P
15:18:47 <Halcyon> That's because it's a secret
15:19:15 <Ampera> 6th of feb 1984
15:19:22 <Halcyon> Close
15:19:36 <Ampera> good on me then
15:19:52 <Halcyon> Check your PMs moron
15:22:07 <Halcyon> Anyway I'm going to go literally kill off everything growing in my front yard. I'm getting new turf installed on Wednesday
15:22:38 <Ampera> mmm, plastic
15:22:45 <Halcyon> No, proper grass
15:22:45 <Ampera> unless it's real turf
15:22:52 <Ampera> aight
15:23:00 <Halcyon> Just everything has to die beforehand so it doesn't grow through
15:23:11 <Halcyon> While the new stuff is establishing at least
15:23:23 <Ampera> supposed to go as low as -5 tonight
15:23:30 <Halcyon> It's 28C here now
15:23:36 <Ampera> (-20.5)
15:23:36 <Halcyon> Slight breeze, quite nice
15:23:54 <Ampera> we probably got 10-12 inches of snow
15:24:29 <Halcyon> Do you frollick around in it?
15:24:35 <Ampera> fuck no
15:24:48 <Ampera> not sure if you've ever been in a foot of deep white shit, but it's not a fun time
15:25:01 <Halcyon> Can't say I have
15:25:12 <Ampera> you've never had to shovel it then either
15:25:17 <Halcyon> Although I did have to dig my hire car out of snow in a carpark in Tasmania one time
15:25:32 <Ampera> were you on the roof?
15:26:00 <Halcyon> It was an outdoor carpark at the chateau I was staying
15:26:11 <Halcyon> It snowed overnight, maybe about 20-30 cm ?
15:26:11 <Ampera> carpark in US means it's multiple story
15:26:14 <Ampera> otherwise it's a parking lot
15:26:19 <Halcyon> Parking lot then
15:30:12 <Halcyon> Back soon
15:35:47 <T3sl4> hmm, chilly here too
15:36:04 <T3sl4> the snowfall yesterday was fairly warm, powdery but it's stuck together today
15:36:09 <T3sl4> it's frozen solid now
15:36:15 <T3sl4> and squeaky
15:36:17 * Ampera freezes T3sl4's soup solid
15:36:28 * T3sl4 frowns at the nazi ice
15:38:33 <T3sl4> -14C here, whatever that is in degrees Flaming
15:39:00 * Ampera burns T3sl4's soup
16:02:13 <T3sl4> https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/ahxwa6/my_relative_died_and_left_me_with_a_lot_of_porn/eekhddf Ampera
16:02:51 <T3sl4> also https://i.redd.it/39472smt6nb21.jpg
16:03:04 <Ampera> why are you like this?
16:03:28 <T3sl4> why are you like you
16:03:54 <Ampera> because I have actual mental problems
16:23:51 <Halcyon> Back
16:23:53 <Halcyon> Yard all sprayed
16:24:11 <T3sl4> that was quick for a yard's worth of dogs
16:24:17 <T3sl4> Oh, not "spayed"
16:24:19 <Halcyon> :P
16:24:23 <Halcyon> *nod*
16:24:28 <Halcyon> Roundup'd the whole front yard
16:24:53 <T3sl4> what, no grass? gravel?
16:25:16 <Halcyon> I'm having it all dug up on Wednesday and new turf layed
16:25:26 <T3sl4> o.O
16:25:57 <Halcyon> Since I built this place, I haven't really done much with the yards. It's all a mixture of all different types of grasses, weeds and patchy bits
16:29:34 <T3sl4> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:29:50 <T3sl4> dunno how much that can be helped by spreading fresh seed
16:30:20 <Ampera> Halcyon, I hope you can sleep well at night, knowing you support a company like Monsanto
16:30:29 <Ampera> oh wait, Monsanto was acquired by Bayer?
16:30:30 <T3sl4> i might be tempted to try that and include say, clover
16:30:30 <Ampera> nvm
16:30:34 <T3sl4> i like clover in lawns
16:30:46 * T3sl4 acquires Ampera and sells them to the highest bidder
16:30:59 * Ampera gets no bids
16:33:27 <Halcyon> Ampera: How else would I kill off a 20x25m block of grasses and shit?
16:34:15 <Ampera> Halcyon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLG1ys2CGcI
16:34:40 <Halcyon> It's a total fire ban here
16:34:58 <Halcyon> Wait... actually today isn't
16:35:07 <Halcyon> But still, green vegetation don't burn
16:35:15 <Ampera> it does with enough heat
16:35:17 <Halcyon> It just creates a lot of smoke and the fire brigade would be turning up
16:35:40 <Ampera> May I suggest orbital to surface phaser strike?
16:35:56 <Halcyon> Plus Glyphosate is pretty safe, its absorbed through the plant leaves, as opposed to poisoning the soil.
16:36:08 <Halcyon> There are things that live in soil which break it down
16:36:19 <Ampera> It's alright, it's made by a German company now.
16:36:23 <Ampera> instead of Monsanto
16:37:03 <Halcyon> I actually used a Hortico brand which is owned by the Dulux Group which is an Aussie company :)
16:37:11 <Halcyon> Same chemical
16:37:18 <Ampera> Now I am mad
16:37:25 <Halcyon> For supporting local business?
16:37:29 <Ampera> I hate Australians
16:37:51 <Halcyon> That's because you Retardistani's are an angry bunch
16:37:54 <Halcyon> Just relax :P
16:37:58 <Ampera> I hate everyone.
16:38:09 <Ampera> I wish death and pain upon all those who walk and talk, and even to those who do not.
16:38:31 <Halcyon> You're an ass :P
16:38:40 * Halcyon cuddles up next to T3sl4
16:38:50 <Ampera> I may be a whole ass, but I am by no means an asshole.
16:38:59 <Ampera> hah GAY
16:39:03 <T3sl4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTFso9wnXxo
16:39:54 <Ampera> T3sl4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QX7nZjr7dI
16:40:13 <T3sl4> :)
16:40:22 <Ampera> I actually kind of like that song.
16:40:31 <Ampera> not just because it's an ancient meme
16:40:33 <T3sl4> it's pretty popular
16:41:14 <Ampera> My dad is planning to go to Germany in April, and I'd quite like to come along with him.
16:41:23 <T3sl4> jawol
16:41:33 <Ampera> but I have no clue if I'd be able to get free time for that
16:42:45 <Halcyon> Speaking of Germany... I might watch some Hogan's Heroes
16:42:47 <Halcyon> I love that show
16:43:01 <T3sl4> I KNOW NOSZING!
16:43:23 <Halcyon> I actually have a book signed by Robert Clary (who played Le Beau)
16:43:30 <Halcyon> I think he is the only one still alive
16:43:33 <T3sl4> neet
16:44:08 <Ampera> Halcyon, I'm curious, what would the effect from the Australian government's recent legislation mandating backdoors to be installed on any computer system requested by the government be on things like OpenSSH and TLS/SSL?
16:44:17 <Halcyon> Yup. He is 92
16:45:40 <Halcyon> Amps: It's just another stupid attempt at the Government to intervene in things they have no idea about. It's not about installing backdoors (that's just the media going crazy). It's about the Government forcing companies to hand over private keys, which of course they can't/won't because many encrypted systems are designed in such a way that only the user possesses the private key (e.g.: Signal, WhatsApp etc...)
16:45:41 <Ampera> I'm not sure if you have any insight into potential policy relating to that, or if any has even been drawn up, but Australia is no doubt a center of attention for those in electronic security now.
16:45:57 <Halcyon> So even if the government mandates it, companies cannot hand over what they don't have.
16:46:00 <Ampera> Does it then?
16:46:04 <Halcyon> It's all bloody stupid
16:46:17 <Ampera> Interesting.
16:46:46 <Ampera> Fortunately, that would be illegal to implement in the US.
16:46:59 <T3sl4> also there's an exemption or sunset period? for open software
16:47:14 <Halcyon> There are laws already in place here which makes it an offences not to hand over passwords, keys etc... if you're charged with certain (major) offences. However the penalty for non-compliance is laughable. The crooks will just refuse and get a few years jail on the off-chance that their original offences don't stick.
16:48:07 <Ampera> I believe that's already a situation, but I presume this law is usable outside of the comission of a crime.
16:48:17 <Ampera> or even the accusation
16:48:34 <Halcyon> Possibly. Personally, I don't see it making much of a difference.
16:48:38 <Halcyon> It won't change anything.
16:48:45 <mrpackethead> i like clover in lawns
16:48:54 <Halcyon> Clover is a weed isn't it?
16:49:07 <Ampera> You can smoke clover?
16:49:09 <T3sl4> it's not invasive here
16:49:17 <T3sl4> it grows wild, if that's what you mean
16:49:29 <Halcyon> Police/Security Agencies already have various ways of implementing "back doors" into devices.
16:49:40 <Halcyon> I guess they just want to do less work?
16:50:04 <Ampera> So long as they piss off from stuff I consider under my domain and control, I have no issue.
16:50:25 <T3sl4> everything is hackable, they just want it to be easier
16:50:50 <Halcyon> Well under a warrant, they can either remotely or covertly in-person install/deploy measures to monitor what you're doing.
16:50:56 <Halcyon> I assume it would be the same there.
16:51:18 <Ampera> That is under warrant. What I fear for is situations where a warrant is not required.
16:51:33 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, how has yoru world been today
16:51:43 <Halcyon> I don't see it happening
16:51:47 <Halcyon> There will always be over-sight
16:52:02 <T3sl4> mrpackethead: glad i spent the whole day inside, it got cold here today :P
16:52:13 <Ampera> That leads me to wonder, what are the rights for police interactions I reserve in Germany?
16:52:25 <Halcyon> *shrug*
16:52:38 <Ampera> I wonder if they are anything like the US
16:53:00 <T3sl4> Ampera: it's my understanding, they tend not to shoot dogs and black people
16:53:09 <Halcyon> I'd imagine European law would be similar to ours
16:53:40 <Ampera> What I'm saying, is that to my best understanding, within the US I reserve the right to not have to disclose any personal details, nor identify myself to police, unless I am being accused of a crime.
16:53:59 <T3sl4> as a foreigner you'll be subject to much more scrutiny, anyway
16:54:09 <Ampera> T3sl4, I'm not a foreigner.
16:54:09 <Halcyon> *shrug* I don't know of your laws and what you do and don't have to do.
16:54:19 <Ampera> I'm a German citizen, and should be subject to all rights thereof
16:54:25 <T3sl4> dual citizenship? oh yeah
16:54:33 <Halcyon> I've be surprised though if there are circumstances under your law where not providing ID (for example) when requested is unlawful.
16:54:42 <mrpackethead> Ampera you are a foreigner
16:54:51 <mrpackethead> everyone is a foreigner
16:55:11 <Ampera> Halcyon, not, and again to my best understanding, unless you are being directly accused of a crime by a police officer.
16:55:22 <Halcyon> You have the right to silence here (mostly) but you are warned by not answered when requested could harm any defence later (similar to the UK)
16:55:36 <Halcyon> *answering
16:55:47 <Ampera> Furthermore, unless you are in a car, I don't believe you have to provide identification whatsoever.
16:55:57 <Halcyon> Ampera: For example, driving a car? Surely Police can demand your licence at any time they stop you?
16:55:59 <mrpackethead> In NZ, Australia and the UK, if asked by the Police, you must provide your name, address, dob and occupation
16:55:59 <Ampera> even if you are being accused of a crime
16:56:12 <Ampera> Halcyon, they can demand it, but they aren't legally entitled to it.
16:56:18 <mrpackethead> they do not need a reason to ask
16:56:20 <Halcyon> That's what a demand is
16:56:34 <Halcyon> It's not a request, it's a legal power
16:56:37 <Ampera> Then what I meant is they aren't barred from asking, but they aren't entitled to it.
16:56:56 <Halcyon> See, here they are. You drive a car, you must produce your licence
16:56:58 <mrpackethead> actually not in the UK
16:57:00 <Halcyon> No if's or but's
16:57:19 <Halcyon> And that's fair enough too
16:57:35 <Ampera> Not unless you are being accused of a crime. For example, if they pull you over and accuse you of DWI/DUI, then you are legally required to provide a license.
16:57:59 <Halcyon> What about if you're an unlicenced driver?
16:58:06 <Halcyon> How can they check its you?
16:58:10 <Ampera> However, if you are on the street, they are not legally allowed to search you, demand identification, or force you to answer questions.
16:58:11 <Halcyon> Or the validity of your licence?
16:58:27 <Halcyon> Same here, without reasonable cause.
16:58:28 <Ampera> Halcyon, if you don't have a license, then you go in the squad car and get charged with a crime.
16:58:53 <Ampera> As far as I am aware, unless they are arresting you, they aren't allowed to search you.
16:58:59 <Halcyon> Ampera see this is where I have an issue...
16:59:14 <Halcyon> Let's just say the Police stop a driver because the registered owner is unlicenced/disqualified, whatever
16:59:24 <Halcyon> How do they prove the person driving is the registered owner or not?
16:59:45 <Ampera> Alright, so the situation involves a pullover for other reasons (obviously)
16:59:51 <Ampera> Does the suspect have ID of any sort on hand?
17:00:00 <Ampera> (in this hypothetical)
17:00:16 <Halcyon> Let's say they do, but refuse to hand it over (because they hate cops or are Sovereign Citizen nut bags)
17:00:56 <Ampera> If they aren't accusing the person of a crime, and are simply pulling them over to ask them questions or otherwise investigate, then they are not actually allowed to do anything, besides pull you over.
17:01:07 Nick: mrpackethead is now known as thepolice
17:01:15 <Halcyon> Right, but what if you ARE the registered owner
17:01:16 <Ampera> You can stand there staring at them, and if they have no reason to arrest you, then you are legally allowed to leave.
17:01:18 <thepolice> @Ampera, what is your name
17:01:19 <Halcyon> How would the Police know?
17:01:22 <T3sl4> thepolice, nice tunes
17:01:28 <thepolice> Ampera, where do you live
17:01:36 <Ampera> thepolice, A/S/L
17:01:40 <Halcyon> ROFL
17:01:42 <thepolice> Ampera, do you like fruit
17:01:49 <Halcyon> Wow, I haven't heard that for about 15 years
17:01:53 <Ampera> I like Halcyon, so yes.
17:01:57 <Halcyon> Aww :)
17:02:02 <Halcyon> I'll take that
17:02:07 <thepolice> we all know Halcyon is a banana so you must be ok
17:02:10 <T3sl4> but you don't like yourself, hmm
17:02:30 <Ampera> Anyways, Halcyon, in the even that they are being taken into custody, then I believe they are allowed to search you, and retrieve your identification.
17:02:35 Nick: thepolice is now known as theinnocent
17:02:40 <Halcyon> Sure
17:02:41 <theinnocent> help they are getting to me
17:02:45 <T3sl4> actually, i guess i don't know what class of vegetable you identify as (or not), so that's fair
17:02:46 <theinnocent> i did'tn do it
17:02:55 <Halcyon> But go back a bit, arrest is pretty drastic. I'm talking about on the roadside.
17:03:01 <theinnocent> LGBTQI+V
17:03:04 <Ampera> They can also ask for, and in this hypothetical, take your registration
17:03:07 <Halcyon> What if the drive is just a dick... because, he is just a dick...
17:03:21 <theinnocent> V is for people who identify as vegetables
17:03:27 <Halcyon> How would I as a Police officer in 'Merica know whether to arrest that guy or not
17:03:30 <Ampera> As I said, unless the police are accusing you of a crime, they aren't allowed to do anything.
17:03:36 Nick: theinnocent is now known as mrpackethead
17:03:49 <Halcyon> So I accuse you of being the unlicenced registered owner and you have to provide ID to prove otherwise?
17:03:52 <Ampera> I presume it would fall under a variety of categories.
17:03:54 <mrpackethead> so, you can identify as binary or non binary. can you identify as hexideciaml
17:04:06 <Halcyon> mrpackethead: I like that :)
17:04:21 <Halcyon> Maybe we can get universities here to include that on their gender surveys
17:04:23 <Ampera> Halcyon, if you accuse me of the crime of driving without a license, and you have due cause to presume that, then you are allowed to arrest the person in general.
17:04:26 <Halcyon> They are stupid enough, they might
17:04:35 <Ampera> mrpackethead, there are only two genders.
17:04:38 <Halcyon> OK, so it's pretty similar to here
17:04:47 <T3sl4> mrpackethead: if you're a sorcerer, you might identify as a hex instead
17:04:56 <mrpackethead> Ampera, so you identify as someone who thinks there are only two genders
17:05:02 <mrpackethead> thats ok, you are allowed to
17:05:13 <Halcyon> What about Quantum?
17:05:25 <Ampera> However, unless they are directly accusing you in a crime, in which case you can contest the breach of your rights in court, arrest or not, they aren't allowed to do anything.
17:05:27 <T3sl4> Halcyon, they're okay hard drives
17:05:38 <Halcyon> lol
17:05:40 <Ampera> T3sl4, aren't they owned by Seagate now?
17:05:44 <Halcyon> I think so
17:05:48 <Halcyon> Or WD?
17:06:01 <Ampera> mrpackethead, for someone who was so drastically opposed to this IRC channel existing, you seem to be having a very good time.
17:06:09 <Halcyon> I think Connor was absorbed by Seagate?
17:06:15 <Ampera> who the fuck knows
17:06:20 <T3sl4> i loved the POST sound of the 325MB Quantum HDD we had back in the 90s
17:06:25 <mrpackethead> Ampera, that is a diversionary tactic to deflect attention away from yourself
17:06:45 <Ampera> There are afaik only two hard drive manufacturers still around, WD and Cheapgate
17:06:49 <Halcyon> mrpackethead: He's just weird :P
17:06:57 <Halcyon> That's why we love him
17:07:01 <mrpackethead> 325MB you were lucky
17:07:04 <Ampera> Halcyon, that's the teapot calling the teapot the N-word
17:07:09 <Halcyon> Yeh even Hitachi is now WD :(
17:07:10 <Ampera> *kettle
17:07:20 <mrpackethead> the first HDD that was at home was 20MB.
17:07:31 <Halcyon> T3sl4: I think I know the sound you mean
17:07:40 <Halcyon> It's hard to describe
17:07:51 <Ampera> Halcyon, does it sound like a smacking, gurgling sound?
17:07:57 <T3sl4> it was mid 90s so it was a 486SX-33 and that and Win3.1 and 1MB SVGA and Pro Audio Spectrum and a couple other things
17:08:02 <Halcyon> I'll give you a smack Ampera
17:08:10 <T3sl4> Ampera: that's any HDD
17:08:10 <Ampera> but will you make me gurgle?
17:08:17 <T3sl4> well, not the old fashioned stepper ones
17:08:19 <Halcyon> When you're 18 sure :P
17:08:20 <Ampera> T3sl4, hard dick drive?
17:08:35 <Ampera> Halcyon, age of consent is not strictly 18 in NY
17:08:35 <T3sl4> Ampera, i'm hard as bits throughout this conversation
17:08:55 <Halcyon> It's not here either, but I'm considered to be in a position of "responsibility" so for me its 18
17:09:08 <Halcyon> Age of consent here is normally 16
17:09:10 <Ampera> oh fuck
17:09:11 <Ampera> I'm 17
17:09:15 <Ampera> god fucking dammit
17:09:18 <Halcyon> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
17:09:22 * Halcyon toots
17:09:25 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, the transformers dramatically loose inductance at 115C
17:09:41 <Ampera> mrpackethead, yet more trans jokes?
17:09:50 <Ampera> give a drastically confused man a break
17:10:01 <mrpackethead> the drop in inductance due to dc-bias is not so dramatic
17:10:02 <Halcyon> You identify as a man now that you're 17 ?
17:10:23 <Ampera> I don't legally have to identify to you, sir.
17:10:23 <mrpackethead> Ampera, you need to #define yourself i thik
17:10:27 <Ampera> I plead the fifth.
17:10:37 <Halcyon> Oh, I found a video the other day for you Amps
17:10:40 <Halcyon> Standby...
17:10:43 <mrpackethead> becuase the US constituion is such an amazing thing
17:10:44 <T3sl4> https://imgur.com/gallery/34Loqlw
17:11:07 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
17:11:12 <T3sl4> mrpackethead: not surprising, NiZn has lower Tc
17:11:13 <mrpackethead> All Hail America. Land of the Free!
17:11:15 <Ampera> mrpackethead, status 418
17:11:17 <Halcyon> You probably won't watch it for more than 30 seconds, but he is a funny bloke
17:11:29 <T3sl4> Ampera, short and stout
17:11:38 <Ampera> eyyyyyyy
17:11:48 <Ampera> Halcyon, you're all wrong and a bag of crisps
17:11:56 <Ampera> I turned it off as soon as I saw the title
17:11:58 <Halcyon> Chips
17:12:03 <T3sl4> Chisps
17:12:03 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, whats a wee bit annoying they are only a few months away from having a 1A part
17:12:17 <Halcyon> Just watch it stupid. Instead of just hanging onto your own opinion
17:12:23 <Halcyon> It's good to get both sides
17:12:28 <mrpackethead> Coudl we start a crowd-funding effort for a wall
17:12:39 <Ampera> I don't fucking care, Halcyon, I will maintain my views on that website until the end.
17:12:47 <Halcyon> Youtube ?
17:12:51 <Ampera> fuck no, Netflix
17:13:04 <T3sl4> mrpackethead: i'm sure they'd love to sell you them today
17:13:07 <Halcyon> I torrent Netflix so I don't care
17:13:20 <mrpackethead> T3sl4, me and a bunch of others
17:13:56 <mrpackethead> the 600mA part will work at my switch end, where i can keep it cool, but that the other end, not so much
17:14:31 <mrpackethead> whast is nice, is that they are dropping the cost dramatically, they will only about about 0.35c at reel quantiy
17:14:43 <Ampera> I will be dead fucking damned
17:14:50 <T3sl4> $0.35?
17:15:01 <Ampera> apparently people in the media are apologizing about the kid who supposedly racistly harassed an indian
17:15:12 <mrpackethead> i was quite surprized to find out that 99% of ethernet transformers are still hand made
17:15:22 <mrpackethead> they wind those torrids litterally by hand.
17:15:25 <Halcyon> Really?
17:15:36 <T3sl4> hmm, pretty small to get a winding machine around, unless you made one specifically for small things
17:15:41 <mrpackethead> TDK are leading the way with automation
17:16:04 <mrpackethead> its not a torroid.
17:16:11 <T3sl4> parts like yours, with the rectangular form and glued-up core, are certainly easier to automate
17:16:21 <mrpackethead> yes.
17:20:24 <Ampera> I think the US political scape has, or is directly reaching a critical point.
17:20:36 <Ampera> Perhaps even the opinions of the world as a whole.
17:21:45 <mrpackethead> Ampera, reaching? think its past crtical.
17:21:57 <mrpackethead> there is no easy return you have a LOT of pain first
17:22:04 <Ampera> Critical as in important.
17:22:19 <mrpackethead> I liked Steven Hawkings comments about Trump in his last book
17:22:20 <Ampera> what do /you/ mean?
17:22:29 <Ampera> I'm not even talking about Trump
17:22:47 <mrpackethead> trump is trump, but normal americans put him ther.e
17:22:48 <Ampera> perhaps political isn't the right term, I more mean the scape and general opinions of people at large.
17:23:02 <mrpackethead> so, you can blame him all you like, but really, he did'tn get their by himself
17:23:06 <Ampera> mrpackethead, I see you suffer from a severe case of Trump Derrangement Syndrome.
17:23:15 <Ampera> I never mentioned his name before you did.
17:23:27 <Ampera> I also think you seriously overestimate the effect the president has on the actual performance of a nation.
17:23:42 <Ampera> He has very little power.
17:23:50 <mrpackethead> i just spent 10 days in the US, and its all the folks in CA and HI would talk about is how 'good' he is.
17:24:00 <mrpackethead> Ampera, its clear he has nearly no power
17:24:17 <Ampera> His primary power is to get people angry. The's the scape goat of the US, every president is.
17:24:18 <mrpackethead> can't get two quarters together to build a wall.
17:24:33 <Ampera> To be honest, he is at his most powerful now, at least politically.
17:25:03 <Ampera> He has the government in a strange position, and so long as the Republicans don't rebel en masse, he can keep the government shut down until a wall is built.
17:25:18 <mrpackethead> when people preface a sentance with "to be honest" you always start looking for the alt.truth
17:25:45 <mrpackethead> neither side is going to give in.
17:25:51 <Ampera> I use tbh as fluff text, I provide no meaning with it.
17:25:59 <Ampera> mrpackethead, now that is an interesting take, and I don't disagree with you.
17:26:00 <mrpackethead> can they run an election if the government is shut down
17:26:17 <Ampera> Yes, the primary decision makers even get paid.
17:26:41 <mrpackethead> Would the people who run the mechanics of an election, be 'open'
17:26:59 <Ampera> However I do wish to remind you, CA and HI are very blue states (a lot of CA is red, but the big parts are blue), people's opinions vary wherever you may go.
17:27:01 <mrpackethead> not sure who runs an election in the USA, in NZ its the Ministry of Justice, Electroal office
17:27:27 <Ampera> mrpackethead, I believe it's the current government who directly runs the actual election, but there are only ever two candidates.
17:27:52 <Ampera> All other possibilities are either not going to win, or chosen in privately held primaries.
17:28:18 <mrpackethead> when i left SFO, it took me abotu 3 minutes to get through security
17:28:24 <Ampera> However I believe the US government is constitutionally bound to change power as normal, regardless of their financial situation.
17:28:29 <mrpackethead> that was some kind of record i figure
17:28:38 <Ampera> That does sound rather short.
17:28:43 <mrpackethead> when i left Honolulu, it took 3 hours
17:28:54 <mrpackethead> forutnatly the hotel warned us to say it was carnage
17:28:58 <Ampera> Well it's Hawaii during the winter.
17:29:07 <mrpackethead> its very nice there
17:29:11 <Ampera> everybody wants to escape the hell where I'm at.
17:29:15 <mrpackethead> they should cut the cable and be independant
17:29:19 <Ampera> HAH
17:29:37 <Ampera> Texas is probably the one state with any number of people wanting to do that, but it will never happen.
17:29:50 <mrpackethead> THat would be Texit
17:29:50 <Ampera> States cannot legally secede from the union.
17:30:49 <Halcyon> Mmm chocolate covered licorice
17:30:52 * Halcyon noms
17:31:15 <Ampera> liquorice is fucking disgusting
17:32:01 <mrpackethead> Ampera, Texas can split itself up into another 4 states ( plus the exisiting one )
17:32:06 <Halcyon> I don't like Salmiakki, it's too salty
17:32:09 <mrpackethead> the current state must remain
17:32:21 <mrpackethead> there is no rules about the new ones.
17:32:23 <Ampera> mrpackethead, still, that'll be the day
17:32:30 <mrpackethead> if they make the old one, the size of a phone box
17:32:41 <mrpackethead> then the other four can go their way
17:32:46 <mrpackethead> go and join Mexico
17:32:51 <Ampera> No, no they cannot.
17:33:13 <Ampera> Perhaps they could even split into more than one state, so highly unlikely, but more likely than them leaving.
17:33:22 <Ampera> Won't happen, can't happen unless every single person in the state wants out
17:33:23 <mrpackethead> Check out the 1845 joint resolution for Annexing Texas to the US
17:34:13 <Ampera> Yes, it provides them the ability to split the state, but there is no provision I know of to secede, and even if there was, I do not believe it would hold any semblence of legal water
17:34:14 <mrpackethead> Texas left the union in 1861, ( they voted 166 to 8 )
17:34:29 <Halcyon> Someone's a history nerd :P
17:34:30 <mrpackethead> they came back in 1870
17:34:41 <Ampera> Yes and how well did that work out for them?
17:35:22 Join: DL3CE ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:35:48 <Ampera> no, I don't know why I don't just slam my face into a waffle iron
17:35:49 <mrpackethead> I'll give you that a Texit, is probably unlikely
17:35:51 <Ampera> what a brilliant idea
17:35:57 <mrpackethead> but if the Hawaiians are smart, they would cut the cable
17:35:59 <mrpackethead> :-)
17:36:40 <Ampera> it wouldn't happen, and couldn't happen.
17:37:37 <mrpackethead> noone thought the Roman empire would crumble
17:37:43 <Ampera> because if you think Catalonia is a clusterfuck, Hawaii trying to leave the US would make it look like the german reuinion
17:37:44 <mrpackethead> or that the british empitre would be tiny
17:38:01 <mrpackethead> thre was a time that the spanish where all powerful
17:38:12 <Ampera> some crazy shit would have to happen for it to be such
17:38:19 <mrpackethead> the USSR was supposed to be solid
17:38:26 <Ampera> Now that's too far.
17:38:36 <Ampera> The USSR is still around, and I will not allow you to say it isn't.
17:38:37 <mrpackethead> "crazy shit".. yeah, thats just called humaity
17:38:55 <mrpackethead> humanity
17:39:13 <mrpackethead> every nation/power has its time
17:39:20 <mrpackethead> new powers rise and fall
17:39:30 <Ampera> except the USSR
17:39:36 <Ampera> for it exists forever in the memory of nations
17:40:56 <Halcyon> Fuck yes, Hogan's Heroes is now in HD on BD-ROM
17:41:21 <Ampera> It's strange that they would put it on BD-ROM instead of a regular BluRay disc
17:41:36 <Halcyon> What's the difference?
17:42:25 <Ampera> As I'd imagine just like CD audio and DVD video vs. CD-ROM and DVD-ROM, one is a video storage standard, and one is a file system based storage standard
17:42:44 <Halcyon> Well CD-ROM can be audio, data or both.
17:42:57 <Halcyon> But it's all digital data at the end of the day
17:43:03 <Halcyon> BD-ROM and BluRay is the same
17:43:12 <Ampera> Not really, CD-ROM is specifically a file system based use of the Compact Disc, it's not compatible with a CD-audio player
17:43:24 <Ampera> well at it's core, some CD-audio players support playing from CD-ROM
17:43:30 <Halcyon> You're thinking of ISO 9660
17:43:34 <Halcyon> CD-ROM isn't a file system
17:43:42 <Ampera> I never said it was
17:43:50 <Ampera> I said it was a file-system based use of the Compact Disc
17:44:09 <Halcyon> CD Audio discs, whether they are pressed or burned are the same structure/file system wise.
17:44:14 <Ampera> it I believe can take any file system, as it in the end just stores data as flat as any other storage medium, perhaps even moreso
17:44:19 <Halcyon> Where some players fall over is in the materials used to make the disc
17:44:20 <Ampera> No they are not.
17:44:38 <Ampera> CD audio is structured differently in how the data is stored to CD-ROM implementations.
17:44:38 <Halcyon> Of course they are, all the same standard
17:44:46 <Ampera> That's not true either.
17:45:00 Quit: DL3CE ([email protected]) Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de
17:45:05 <Halcyon> I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to argue
17:45:12 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM
17:45:18 <Halcyon> CD-ROM is the same as Audio CD, Pressed Data CDs etc...
17:45:21 <Ampera> That CD-ROM and CD Digital Audio are two different things.
17:45:23 <Halcyon> CD-R is a recordable version
17:45:34 <Halcyon> And so on
17:45:39 <Ampera> Pressed data CDs /are/ CD-ROMs
17:45:44 <Ampera> if they store data, then it's a CD-ROM
17:45:45 <Halcyon> As are burnt ones
17:45:59 <Ampera> However, specifically audio CDs are not CD-ROMs
17:46:06 <Halcyon> CD-DA is just the Red Book Standard
17:46:10 <Ampera> same with DVD video discs and DVD-ROM
17:46:23 <Ampera> and CD-ROM is yellow book
17:47:08 <Halcyon> That's the ISO 9660 standard
17:47:08 <Ampera> If you are particularly confused, Technology Connections has a very good explanation on the topic.
17:47:17 <Halcyon> CD-ROM is the media
17:47:22 <Halcyon> What goes on it depends on the standard
17:47:22 <Ampera> CD is the media
17:47:28 <Ampera> CD-ROM is the standard for data storage
17:47:33 <Ampera> ISO 9660 is a file system
17:47:39 <Halcyon> Then what is CD-R ?
17:47:42 <Halcyon> Or CD-RW
17:47:47 <Ampera> Dye recordable CDs
17:47:52 <Ampera> as opposed to otherwise pressed CDs
17:47:57 <Halcyon> Exactly. It's just a different media
17:48:04 <Halcyon> Same data layout
17:48:16 <Ampera> It is different media in construction, but the data layout is the same based on how you burn it
17:48:33 <Ampera> but CD-ROMs and CD-DA are different standards using the same type of media
17:48:33 <Halcyon> As far as I'm concerned, you have CD-ROM, CD-R and CD-RW
17:48:34 <Halcyon> That's it
17:48:49 <Ampera> CD-R and CD-RW are both types of CDs
17:48:49 <Halcyon> What and how you burn/press them is totally different
17:48:56 <Ampera> CD-ROM and CD-DA is how the data is arranged on it
17:49:11 <Ampera> ISO 9660 is the file system, later replaced by UDF
17:49:18 <Halcyon> I get that people use "CD-ROM" to mean Data discs
17:49:22 <Halcyon> And CD-DA to mean Audi
17:49:23 <Halcyon> o
17:49:32 <Halcyon> But that's not really correct
17:49:40 <Ampera> No, it's exactly correct.
17:49:45 <Halcyon> I disagree
17:49:47 <Halcyon> But that's OK
17:49:54 <Ampera> I know for a fact I am correct.
17:50:00 <Ampera> look it up, see for yourself.
17:50:42 <Halcyon> "Data stored on CD-ROMs follows the standard CD data encoding techniques described in the Red Book specification (originally defined for audio CD only)."
17:50:45 <Halcyon> Exactly
17:50:59 <Ampera> citation
17:51:06 <Halcyon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM#CD-ROM_format
17:51:41 <T3sl4> there, cookie dough is made
17:51:53 <Halcyon> Are you going to bake it T3sl4 or just eat it raw?
17:51:58 <T3sl4> it's rather firm right now though, may have to add water to get it soft enough to add chocolate chips and walnuts
17:52:05 <Ampera> That states it follows it, but doesn't state it's the same thing.
17:52:08 <T3sl4> Halcyon: Yes
17:52:51 <Ampera> Halcyon, "CD-ROMs are identical in appearance to audio CDs, and data are stored and retrieved in a very similar manner (only differing from audio CDs in the standards used to store the data)."
17:52:51 <Halcyon> "CD-ROM" was a name given to the exact same disc as CD-DA back in the day to differentiate it. It was a new technology
17:52:59 <Ampera> Same page, under subsection Media
17:53:09 <Halcyon> Correct
17:53:25 <Halcyon> So you can have a CD-ROM with varying standards recorded/pressed to is
17:53:26 <T3sl4> it's bizarre to me that a fixed format had so many standards created for it
17:53:27 <Ampera> It's the same disc, but not the same encoding scheme.
17:53:32 <Halcyon> CD-ROM isn't "the standard"
17:53:40 <T3sl4> there's what, a dozen kinds of audio, video, data and mixed standards?
17:53:48 <Halcyon> At least T3sl4
17:54:10 <Halcyon> VCD for example, still recorded to CD-ROM
17:54:26 <Ampera> "The Yellow Book, published in 1988,[5] defines the specifications for CD-ROMs, standardized in 1989 as the ISO/IEC 10149 / ECMA-130 standard. The CD-ROM standard builds on top of the original Red Book CD-DA standard for CD audio."
17:55:24 <Halcyon> CD is the material, the designator which follows whether it be -ROM, -R or -RW defines how the disc is recorded to.
17:55:27 <Ampera> Actually VCD is based on CD-ROM standards, and uses CD-ROM XA to write data
17:55:45 <Halcyon> Same as DVD-ROM, -R-/+, -RW
17:56:07 <Ampera> I disagree. CD is the base concept, with pressed, CD-R and CD-RW being the variants, written to in different ways, but read largely the same.
17:56:26 <Halcyon> Companies have invented a whole bunch of "standards", but it's all the same media
17:56:29 <Ampera> CD-DA and CD-ROM are both methods of storing information on the CD, with CD-DA designed to store PCM data, and CD-ROM designed to store flat data
17:57:26 <Halcyon> Anyway, Hogan's Heroes is out on BD
17:57:32 <Halcyon> \o/
17:57:41 <T3sl4> Big Dick?
17:57:47 <Halcyon> I love that companies are converting old films into High Definition/4K
17:58:21 <Ampera> currently reviewing the video that taught me what I know
17:58:43 <T3sl4> a lot of film is surprisingly serviceable on HD
17:58:47 <Halcyon> I know of Technology Connections, he does alright, but he is just a nerd like the rest of us
17:58:55 <Halcyon> I wouldn't refer to him as the authority
17:59:28 <Ampera> Yes, but I can understand exactly the distincton better to find other sources.
17:59:35 <Halcyon> He also tends to dumb it down and use simple language for a wider audience
18:02:02 <Ampera> CD-ROMs use additional error correction when storing flat data vs CD-DA
18:02:10 <Ampera> outside of any file systems, and that's the key difference
18:02:25 <Halcyon> CD-DA has parity bits
18:02:37 * T3sl4 sticks a parrot on Halcyon's shoulder
18:02:50 <Ampera> CD-ROM has further error correction as far as I am aware, but I am currently searching for this exact information on Wikipedia
18:04:17 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-ROM#CD-ROM_format Halcyon, read this damn section, it proves I'm correct.
18:04:27 <Halcyon> My understanding of Data CD's is that its basically one long audio track
18:04:54 <Ampera> Information is stored differently than on a DA CD, with two modes, varying the amount of error correcting data, additional to information a regular PCM CD would have.
18:05:34 <Halcyon> It's just a different standard
18:05:38 <Halcyon> It's still CD-ROM media
18:05:42 <Ampera> Mode 2 being effectively the same error correction as a regular DA CD.
18:05:50 <Ampera> No, the standard is /called/ CD-ROM
18:05:54 <Ampera> CD is the media
18:06:01 <Ampera> ROM and DA specify what is being stored
18:06:05 <Halcyon> What if I use CD-R
18:06:07 <Ampera> and also the standards relating to how
18:06:11 <Halcyon> It's not called CD-ROM Mode 1 CD-R
18:06:14 <Ampera> CD-R is just another type of CD
18:06:32 <Halcyon> CD-ROM isn't the standard, its a type of media
18:06:33 <Halcyon> ISO/IEC 10149
18:06:33 <Ampera> You can actually have mixed mode CDs
18:06:35 <Halcyon> Is the standard
18:06:45 <Ampera> Which is called CD-ROM, CD-ROM is not the media, it's the standard.
18:06:46 <Halcyon> Which is what I said all along
18:07:08 <Ampera> No it's not, you said CD-ROM is the media, with the standard remaining nameless.
18:07:26 <Ampera> CD, CD-ROM, and CD-DA all have seperate wikipedia pages for that reason.
18:07:28 <Halcyon> Correct
18:07:32 <Halcyon> The standard has a name
18:07:34 <Halcyon> It's called ISO/IEC 10149
18:07:35 <Ampera> as well as CD-R and CD-RW
18:07:39 <Halcyon> 1995 to be exact
18:07:53 <Halcyon> People use the terms interchangably
18:08:33 <Ampera> People can use it however they want, people call the Innuit Eskimos, but they never called themselves that
18:09:01 <Ampera> CD-ROM is the flat data storage standard for the CD, and CD-DA is the audio storage standard for it.
18:09:15 <Ampera> CD-R and CD-RW are types of CDs, but aren't specifically CD-ROMs or CD-DA, they can be either.
18:09:19 <T3sl4> now i'm thinking about one of the better maps in Unreal.
18:09:36 <Halcyon> A CD-R cannot be a CD-ROM
18:09:40 <Halcyon> It's not Read-Only
18:10:10 <Ampera> It's WORM, but CD-ROM specifies the data standard, not the media.
18:10:18 <Halcyon> *sigh*
18:10:34 <Ampera> I am correct, and my evidence, which you have not disproven, substantiates it.
18:10:58 <Halcyon> It seems like I've provided enough material for you to try and understand it. There is no standard called "CD-ROM"
18:11:33 <Halcyon> People refer to ISO standard as "CD-ROM" but it generally refers to the media, not the standard
18:11:35 <Ampera> Yes there is.
18:11:44 <Ampera> CD is the media
18:11:49 <Ampera> with CD-R and CD-RW being variants of it
18:11:54 <Halcyon> Back before CD-R/CD-RW was a thing, that's what people called it
18:12:22 <Ampera> So your evidence is the common reference to it, not the official/intended one?
18:12:39 <Halcyon> The official reference supports my argument
18:12:45 <Ampera> source
18:12:46 <Halcyon> You can call it whatever you like
18:12:53 <Halcyon> Call them coasters if you want
18:13:01 <Ampera> I'm telling you that's what you are doing.
18:13:05 * T3sl4 will call them "fifty free hours"es
18:13:16 <Ampera> What I am saying is what I believe to be official.
18:13:19 <Halcyon> Unreal as in the old game T3sl4 ?
18:13:24 <T3sl4> yes
18:13:26 <Ampera> If you have an official distinction, please provide it.
18:13:30 <Halcyon> I have
18:13:31 <Ampera> Primary sources only
18:13:38 <Halcyon> Look up the standards for yourself
18:14:00 <Ampera> I have, they do not conclusively refer to CD-ROM as the the standard or the media.
18:14:21 <Halcyon> CD-R* is the media, the standard is something different, you can have a Mode 1 CD-ROM or CD-R
18:14:27 <Halcyon> Same content, different media
18:14:49 <Ampera> The official title of the standard is, "Data Interchange on read-only 120 mm optical data disks (CD-ROM)"
18:15:03 <Ampera> which could be interpreted to be referring to either the media or the standard.
18:15:08 <Ampera> (CD-ROM, that is)
18:15:19 <Ampera> As such, this is not conclusive evidence.
18:15:45 <Ampera> https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/609110/ The copy of the standard of which I view
18:15:54 <Halcyon> You realise that's dated 1995? When did the first mainstream CD writer come out? Probably after that.
18:16:12 <Ampera> Because the standard in question was last ratified in 1995
18:16:13 <Halcyon> So back then. CD-ROM was CD-ROM was CD-ROM
18:16:20 <T3sl4> Halcyon: 1995 to be exact <-- so this one?
18:16:22 <Halcyon> Now, CD-ROM is that Read Only Memory
18:16:35 <Ampera> Thank you T3sl4, was too lazy to get that myself.
18:17:00 * T3sl4 wonders if anyone got why he was thinking of Unreal
18:17:02 <Ampera> You are incorrect and do not have proof to back up your arguments, only hearsay
18:17:11 <Halcyon> Hey, I go by the standards
18:17:17 <Halcyon> And what is technically correct
18:17:23 <Ampera> I just went by the standards and stated that they are inconclusive.
18:17:23 <Halcyon> I don't burn a CD-ROM to a CD-R
18:17:30 <Ampera> Yes you do and can.
18:17:33 <Halcyon> Wrong
18:17:41 <Ampera> Proof.
18:17:41 <Halcyon> Read Only Memory vs Recordable
18:17:49 <Halcyon> It's in the name. That's what they are called
18:17:53 <T3sl4> All I know is most of the time I record a CD-R it becomes a CD-DEAD.
18:18:04 <Halcyon> Do I have to explain acronyms to you?
18:18:12 <Ampera> That's not proof, that's taking two names and equating them to each other.
18:18:22 <Halcyon> They aren't equal to each other though
18:18:27 <Ampera> They could have called the standard Jim and Jim's attractive cousin, that wouldn't make a difference.
18:18:28 <Halcyon> They are two different types of media
18:18:36 <T3sl4> Some things are more equal than others.
18:18:41 <Ampera> No they are not, one is media, and one is a standard for how you store data to that media
18:18:53 <Halcyon> *palm*
18:18:58 <Halcyon> You call it what you like
18:19:29 <Ampera> You have not provided evidence, and I maintain that I am correct, based off of the secondary source I have provided, which isn't much, but is above what you have given.
18:19:38 <Halcyon> You can maintain what you like as well
18:19:56 <Ampera> I'd be willing to settle for third party expert arbitration.
18:20:02 <T3sl4> pedants stuck in a loop repeating the same points like they'll have a different effect, lel
18:20:17 <Halcyon> According to the courts of Australia, I am considered an expert in the field
18:20:21 <T3sl4> i'd be glad to arbitrate this; my conclusion, you're both idiots
18:20:38 <Ampera> You are considered an expert in optical storage media specifically CDs?
18:20:39 <Halcyon> I'll take that T3sl4. I should have forseen this happening
18:20:44 <Halcyon> *Foreseen
18:20:55 <Ampera> Furthermore the official intent of name for the standards?
18:21:00 <Halcyon> Best quite while I'm ahead
18:21:09 <Halcyon> *quit
18:21:12 <Ampera> ahead of all but I
18:21:17 <Halcyon> Sure
18:21:19 <Halcyon> :)
18:21:30 <T3sl4> Ampera: you're abutt
18:21:30 <Halcyon> I can't wait to have HD Hogan's Heroes
18:21:38 <Halcyon> It's going to look so awesome
18:21:56 <Ampera> Hearsay Defined Hogan's Heroes?
18:22:22 <Halcyon> I think it was recorded on 38mm film?
18:23:08 <Ampera> wouldn't that be 35mm?
18:23:17 <Halcyon> No idea
18:23:26 <Halcyon> I don't know much about film, hence why I wouldn't be an expert
18:24:27 <T3sl4> 38mm aka 1-1/2"
18:24:37 <Ampera> whatever
18:24:44 <T3sl4> could very well be
18:24:48 <Ampera> but Halcyon, do you know what will really piss you off?
18:24:53 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_Video
18:24:55 <Halcyon> Nothing?
18:26:28 <Ampera> T3sl4, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljXIDZqesdc
18:27:15 * T3sl4 stabs Ampera with the high voltage at the tip of a live CB antenna
18:27:30 * Ampera kills the CB antenna with poison
18:27:43 <T3sl4> right
18:27:59 <T3sl4> i made the antenna out of lead, that means it's already poison-type :P
18:28:15 <Halcyon> You could just dope the tip in leaded solder?
18:28:21 <Halcyon> But then he would have to ingest it
18:28:32 * Ampera uses Psybeam on T3sl4's CB antenna
18:28:38 <T3sl4> i didn't say it was venomous-type, Halcyon
18:28:43 <Halcyon> Ahh
18:29:02 * Ampera uses Earthquake on T3sl4's CB
18:29:16 <T3sl4> Ampera: i don't know the effectiveness of any of those moves
18:29:26 <Ampera> super effective
18:29:37 <T3sl4> doubtful
18:29:45 <Ampera> https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Poison_(type)
18:29:48 <T3sl4> well, maybe the earthquake, a lead antenna would be pretty easy to wobble over
18:30:35 <Ampera> It's -4F/-20C, Halcyon and T3sl4
18:30:58 <T3sl4> https://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars?station_ids=kmke&std_trans=standard&chk_metars=on&hoursStr=most+recent+only&submitmet=Submit
18:31:37 <Ampera> it feels like I should be reading that in NATO phoenetics
18:31:51 <T3sl4> still -14C, gentle breeze, light snow
18:32:26 <Halcyon> Fuck that
18:32:42 * Halcyon is in board shorts and a t-shirt
18:32:49 * T3sl4 hands Halcyon a fuck-pillow made of snow for his enjoyment
18:33:28 <Halcyon> And Hogan's was recorded on 35mm film
18:33:35 <T3sl4> makes sense
18:33:35 <Ampera> HAH
18:34:14 <Ampera> Halcyon, https://i.redd.it/3gwi0zes4pb21.jpg
18:34:14 <Halcyon> So you should be able to get 4K out of it
18:34:34 <Halcyon> Beans?
18:34:35 <T3sl4> Ampera: this beans nothing to me
18:34:52 <Halcyon> I wonder hold long it would take to open all those cans
18:34:55 <Halcyon> *how
18:35:13 <Ampera> I wonder why you perverted fucks put beans in a tomato sauce
18:35:23 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/8lVKWon.mp4
18:35:30 <Halcyon> How else do you eat baked beans?
18:35:40 <T3sl4> you perverted new england fucks put molasses on em
18:35:43 <Ampera> in a brown sugar, maple syrup sauce
18:35:52 <Ampera> T3sl4, I'm not in new england
18:35:55 <Halcyon> Ew
18:36:04 <Halcyon> I hate sugary sauces
18:36:22 * Ampera serves Halcyon a white sugary sauce
18:36:26 <T3sl4> york is part of england as far as i'm concerned.
18:36:36 <T3sl4> wait, where are you again?
18:36:37 <Ampera> T3sl4, no it's not?
18:36:46 <Ampera> NY isn't part of new england
18:37:10 <Ampera> New England is everything east of us
18:37:40 <T3sl4> ahhh
18:38:01 <Ampera> I was born in New England, though, so eh
18:38:05 <T3sl4> SEE
18:38:12 <T3sl4> filthy beaner
18:38:17 <Ampera> where are you again?
18:38:23 <T3sl4> cheese
18:38:32 <Ampera> what state ya twat
18:38:38 <Halcyon> Now I feel like Cheese
18:38:40 <T3sl4> heads of cheese
18:38:51 <Ampera> what
18:38:58 <T3sl4> WI?
18:39:07 <Ampera> ah
18:39:12 <Ampera> indeed I just looked that up, and you're right
18:39:15 <Ampera> you are indeed a twat
18:39:47 <Ampera> you near Chicago by any chance?
18:40:09 <T3sl4> a bit over an hour, ya
18:40:35 <Ampera> because I plan to be in Chicago with a car anywhere from a year to a few years.
18:40:58 <Ampera> I'm planning a road trip along the general area, would be neat to hit up as many friends as possible
18:41:22 <Ampera> I'm planning to largely stick around in Chicago, and somewhere in Iowa, so maybe I can head up and say hullo
18:41:41 <Ampera> I'd even like to say hi to jspiros, but I'll just have to see what he thinks about that
18:42:25 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/2VvM1SQ.png
18:42:50 <T3sl4> sure :)
18:42:57 <Ampera> I'm currently looking for 1-2 trips a year, most likely 1 around summer time, and the Chicago route might be my first go
18:43:28 <Ampera> but I also have plans to go to Georgia, Nova Scotia, and Texas, as well as the land upside down, to harass Halcyon
18:43:46 <T3sl4> i know, i'm not special ;)
18:44:06 <Ampera> It's all a matter of time, money, and what is practical when.
18:45:37 <Halcyon> YAY!
18:47:40 <Ampera> I'll make the Australia trip ASAP, Halcyon. As soon as I can afford it, which could be anywhere from 2020 onwards
18:48:07 <Halcyon> That's only a year away :)
18:48:34 <Ampera> If it is in 2020, it will almost definitely be in June/July, for however long I stay.
18:49:07 <Halcyon> Yeh no worries, it will be cooler then anyway
18:49:14 <Halcyon> Let me know and I'll book in leave
18:52:48 <Ampera> I thought they were trying to crack down on drugs in the 80's
18:52:56 <Halcyon> Who was?
18:53:17 <Ampera> US at least, but various governments
18:53:28 <Ampera> the reason I say that is because whoever was writing S1 TNG was fucking high
18:53:36 <Halcyon> Yeh, it's a losing battle. It seems the number of stupid people is increasing
18:54:00 <Halcyon> Eventually they'll die off :)
18:55:03 <Halcyon> Anything/anyone you want to see while you're here Amps?
18:56:26 <Ampera> Might want to head down to see Jack, maybe say hi to Dave if he'll have me, but it's a different country, there's got to be something to do there.
18:56:42 <Halcyon> Yeh I'll hook you up with Dave
18:59:04 <steve30> I got another email wanting bitcoin in return for deleting video of me watching porn. Got quite a lot of these recently.
18:59:18 <Halcyon> I want a copy of said video
18:59:18 <Halcyon> :P
18:59:45 <Halcyon> I got one too. Hah jokes on them, I don't have a camera attached to my computer
18:59:47 <Ampera> steve30, do they offer you the video?
18:59:51 <steve30> I guess you'll have to hack the hacker then.
19:00:15 <T3sl4> cookies are in the oven <3
19:00:24 <Halcyon> You are so cute T3sl4
19:00:36 <steve30> I think they just delete it
19:00:37 <Halcyon> Did you end up putting chocolate or something in them?
19:00:42 <steve30> ooh, cookies :p
19:00:49 <Ampera> this chat is getting too gay for me
19:00:58 <Halcyon> Steve: Just in case it's not clear, it's a scam. They don't have a video of you.
19:01:21 <T3sl4> steve30: i got one of those recently too, vague and useless as ever :P
19:01:23 <steve30> Halcyon, yes, its blindingly obvious, because I don't own a webcam :)
19:01:29 <Halcyon> Just checking :)
19:01:40 <Halcyon> Even my phone front camera is covered up
19:02:07 <steve30> They also go on about tracking pixels etc, but I only view text only emails with no remote content
19:02:23 <Ampera> You see these problems don't effect me, because if they did have video of me watching porn they would see someone sitting idly in a chair looking at a screen
19:02:24 * steve30 lurks around T3sl4's oven
19:02:42 * T3sl4 scritches the steve30 by the warm oven
19:02:49 <steve30> :)
19:02:53 <T3sl4> steve30: chocolate chip and walnut cookies ^-^
19:03:04 <steve30> :p
19:03:08 <Halcyon> Delicious
19:03:23 * T3sl4 nuts on Halcyon, by which he means, throws the bag of walnut pieces
19:03:30 <Halcyon> Can we have a photo of you retrieving them from the oven once baked with an apron on?
19:03:47 <Ampera> I would actually like a photo of the face that houses T3sl4's twisted mind
19:03:50 <T3sl4> apron? i'm naked
19:03:52 <Ampera> but just out of curiosity
19:04:00 <Ampera> aw fuck, you've got Halcyon interested now
19:04:02 <Halcyon> You can be naked in an apron :P
19:04:21 <Halcyon> Just turn your back to the camera
19:04:26 <T3sl4> actually i'm not, it's not warm enough in here to not wear clothes :P
19:04:32 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://i.imgur.com/WZ0efMI.jpg
19:04:38 <T3sl4> want to say i've shared that one before, dunno
19:04:45 <Ampera> oh, then I have seen you then
19:05:02 <Halcyon> He has such lovely eyes
19:05:16 <Ampera> T3sl4, https://gyazo.com/eba819c2d820aa4d03f4c4302364ccae
19:05:23 <T3sl4> that's the first thing many notice about me
19:05:24 <steve30> I guess you're the coil in the background?
19:05:36 <Ampera> aw sweet, twitch account
19:05:46 <T3sl4> steve30: bingo ;)
19:05:55 <Ampera> T3sl4, I noticed your sweet ass beard first tbh
19:06:10 <T3sl4> it's not on my ass
19:06:13 <steve30> the human in the foreground looks kinda creepy
19:06:15 <T3sl4> although it is face pubes
19:06:20 <Halcyon> Blue eyes probably aren't super common in 'merica?
19:06:26 <T3sl4> steve30: you might not be wrong about that
19:06:34 <Ampera> Halcyon, they are very common in America Halcyon.
19:06:50 <Halcyon> Oh OK
19:06:54 <Ampera> My entire family has blue, or if you're like me, grey eyes.
19:06:58 <Halcyon> I guess we're taking over then
19:07:18 <Halcyon> Although T3sl4 isnt Aryan
19:07:44 <T3sl4> somewhat, i'm about half german
19:07:53 * Halcyon has the Blonde/Blue
19:08:03 <Ampera> T3sl4, ah, a fellow kraut
19:08:04 <Halcyon> Hitler would have liked me
19:08:08 <T3sl4> although that might be "aryan" by convenient definition, not the technical definition
19:08:18 <T3sl4> (someone of indo-european descent)
19:09:08 <Ampera> What my eyes sort of look like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_eyes.jpg
19:10:17 <T3sl4> neat
19:11:22 <Halcyon> I thought you were more like this: https://zippy.gfycat.com/ShimmeringCoolCowrie.webm
19:11:55 <Halcyon> I love Scary Movie, might watch it actually...
19:14:15 <Ampera> Halcyon, like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310478241989263371/536821292406669313/IMG_20190121_031452.jpg and https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310478241989263371/536821292901466113/IMG_20190121_031503.jpg
19:14:42 <Ampera> I think you can see there is very little feeling or life behing those eyes.
19:14:55 <Ampera> but that they are indeed grey
19:15:35 <Ampera> for T3sl4 as well
19:15:58 <T3sl4> or greenish, but may be lighting
19:16:13 <steve30> I'm going to go to the gym this morning
19:16:21 <Ampera> I see no green
19:16:23 <Halcyon> I'd go with Blue/Grey
19:16:43 <Ampera> Grey is an alteration on grey
19:16:55 <Halcyon> Steve: You bulking?
19:17:14 <Ampera> Eyes are legally considered grey on my ID
19:17:56 <Ampera> then again my height is marked as 5'2" there
19:18:46 <Halcyon> Yeh my Police warrant card says I'm 75KG too :P
19:18:49 <Halcyon> Doesn't mean shit
19:18:50 <Halcyon> :P
19:19:00 <Ampera> Does that mean you're legally allowed to be arrested?
19:19:14 <Halcyon> No, it just means I haven't updated my warrant card
19:19:28 <Ampera> I mean the warrant card
19:19:35 <Ampera> does that mean you have a warrant out for your arrest?
19:19:40 <Halcyon> That's just what they call our ID
19:19:43 <Halcyon> It goes along with the badge
19:20:39 <Ampera> Halcyon, how do I know your eagerness for me to come to Australia isn't just a highly convoluted way for you to arrest me for some strange crime
19:20:52 <Ampera> like hating LGBTQ or something
19:20:57 <steve30> Halcyon, I have dodgy joints and have to keep my muscles strong to avoid joint pain
19:21:04 <Halcyon> :) Hahah
19:21:12 <Halcyon> I can take a photo of you in cuffs if you like
19:21:20 <Halcyon> Fair enough Steve
19:21:22 <Ampera> I already own a pair of handcuffs
19:21:28 <Halcyon> Of course you do :P
19:21:41 <steve30> Ampera, you can arrest Halcyon
19:21:44 <Ampera> toy ones, made out of real metal, but the ratchet has an external release lever
19:21:50 <Ampera> they even have a key
19:22:12 <Ampera> but you can just buy handcuffs in the US, no reason you can't afaik
19:22:25 <Halcyon> Ill be back later
19:22:36 <Ampera> Halcyon, just so I know, what's the regulation for lockpicking sets?
19:22:38 <Ampera> before you go
19:22:57 <Ampera> because I daily carry a small lockpick set, mostly for fun, so I want to know the laws on that
19:24:51 <T3sl4> i daily pick my nose, i hope that isnt a problem
20:01:58 <coppice_> does that make you nasal fluid?
20:02:24 <T3sl4> indeed
20:20:40 <coppice_> Ampera: my eyes are grey on my HK ID card, but they do use monochrome pictures
20:20:50 <Ampera> lol
20:38:34 <T3sl4> were you yelling at a cloud too?
20:38:46 <Halcyon> I don't know your laws
20:38:56 <Halcyon> Here they are illegal to possess unless you're a locksmith etc...
20:39:05 <Halcyon> But you can have them at home
20:40:22 <coppice_> taken at face value that means you can never become a locksmith, as you can't have the tools you need to train
20:40:44 <Halcyon> Sorry I should be more clear
20:40:55 <Halcyon> You can't just walk around the streets with lockpicking/house breaking implements
20:40:58 <coppice_> oh, you can have them at home? which home? is the home you are trying to burgle OK?
20:41:00 <Halcyon> You can use them privately at home
20:41:25 <Halcyon> They aren't prohibited per-se, as long as you aren't using them to break the law
20:41:33 <Halcyon> Then they become illegal
20:41:54 <Ampera> So does that mean I can carry them or not?
20:42:05 <Halcyon> You'd better have a good reason
20:42:06 <Ampera> They obviously won't be used in the comission of a crime
20:42:12 <Ampera> Because it's my sport/hobby
20:42:29 <T3sl4> carrying them without establshed intent to commit seems fine then.......riiiiiiight?
20:42:44 <Halcyon> Look, its highly unlikely you would get stopped unless its at an obscure time of day and you're seen in other people's yards or scoping out houses
20:43:05 <Ampera> My question would be, can I keep them in my pocket (obiously not on the plane) or not
20:43:15 <Halcyon> But since you won't have priors or intel regarding such crimes, it's usually not an issue
20:43:29 <Halcyon> There no specific law against possessing them
20:43:42 <Ampera> alright
20:43:50 <coppice_> "30% off lingerie" - does that make it more revealing, or just very tight
20:43:57 <Halcyon> But if it can be established you're breaking into homes, then possession is illegal
20:45:11 <Ampera> Well then I'd have bigger concerns about if I have lockpicking tools anyways
20:45:19 <Halcyon> Exactly
20:45:24 <Ampera> coppice_, why not both?
20:48:06 <coppice_> coppice_: I think they'd have to offer a big discount to make that attractive
20:48:09 <Halcyon> This is the specific act which deals with lock picks: https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/act/1900/40/part4/div4/sec114
20:48:23 <Halcyon> The important distinction is INTENT
20:48:43 <coppice_> here's 5 locks. pick one
20:49:52 <Ampera> alright, well I'll carry it and just not want to break into someone's house
20:49:57 <Halcyon> Correct
20:50:13 <Ampera> I think it's a stupid law, if you're breaking into someone's house, that's already illegal enough
20:50:23 <Halcyon> It does make sense
20:50:42 <Halcyon> It's for those situations where someone is seen attempting to break into somewhere, but either doesn't get in, or is disturbed.
20:50:48 <Halcyon> So there is no actual "break"
20:50:52 <Ampera> attempted burglary
20:50:53 <Halcyon> But it's what they were there to do
20:50:58 <coppice_> of course it makes sense. legislators like vague laws that keep people on the edge of criminality
20:51:46 <Ampera> in my opinion the law should read, in the even one is proven to have attempted to, with intent, break in to or otherwise violate private property, they may be subject to imprisonment for up to 7 years
20:51:55 <Halcyon> It can get a little confusing, for 99% of people it's not an issue. As long as you're not a crook wanting to break into someones house.
20:51:55 <Ampera> *event
20:52:14 <Ampera> I just hate it when they write laws like that
20:52:18 <Halcyon> It's not as simple as that
20:52:26 <Ampera> It should be
20:52:36 <Halcyon> For example, if you're invited into a home, but then steal something, that's not a "break in"
20:52:52 <Halcyon> But the intent was still there
20:53:05 <Ampera> Then fucking charge them with stealing
20:53:12 <Halcyon> Stealing = Larceny
20:53:17 <Halcyon> It's a fairly minor offence
20:53:29 <Halcyon> Stealing something from someone's home is usually worse
20:53:29 <Ampera> the crime shouldn't be, well he carried a thin slip of metal with him, it should be, he stole something or did osmething else.
20:53:40 <Ampera> Then write the law as such, don't have a minor technicality law.
20:53:54 <Halcyon> They have
20:53:54 <Ampera> Not to mention, what if you steal something from someone's house, and do not have any tools to do so?
20:53:59 <Halcyon> Read the other sections
20:54:26 <Ampera> Then I withdraw my previous, and only my previous statement.
20:54:49 <Ampera> If anything that's the only reasonable portion of the law, but that simply forbids tresspassing.
20:55:26 <Halcyon> S.115 is good too. If you're a previously convicted offender of any indictable offence, your sentence is automatically 10 years.
20:55:29 <Halcyon> Which is fair enough
20:55:39 <Ampera> That's alright.
20:55:50 <Ampera> Here's a question, is there any law on your books you have to enforce, that you find stupid?
20:56:04 <Halcyon> So you could have a drug supply conviction for example, but if you get caught breaking into someone's house, bam, 10 years.
20:57:07 <Halcyon> No not really. I can't think of any "stupid" law. Police here have discretion, even when the complainant is a member of the public. Contrary to what people see on TV, victims don't "press charges", the Police do and if they decide there is insufficient evidence, then that's that.
20:57:11 <T3sl4> coppice_: here's 5 locks. pick one <-- i'll take the not-MasterLock, thank you
20:57:46 <Ampera> The penalty of various laws isn't being contested by me, my issue here is these laws leave too much up to intent and opinion, instead of penalty for cold hard facts.
20:58:02 <Halcyon> I'm sure there are some obscure laws which are never enforced, but I can't think of any
20:58:03 <Ampera> Laws need to be written with as much of the subjective human element removed as possible.
20:58:30 <Halcyon> Amps: The problem with being specific in law is that you'll always come across a case where it's not black or white.
20:58:32 <coppice_> T3sl4: you are the dangerous type. you now have a proven ability to pick a lock
20:58:40 <T3sl4> Ampera: I just hate it when they write laws like that <-- also, it matters what the courts have said about it since, at least in US judicial system; i'm not sure how it works elsewhere. Courts, when applying laws, typically take them to be as narrow as possible, so to really know how to apply a law, you need to know the case law around it. Sucks, but such is the US, at least.
20:58:48 <Halcyon> This is why we are trained to investigate, not just simply take a report and go through the motions.
20:59:14 <Ampera> T3sl4, that's in my eyes half of the purpose of a court.
20:59:21 <coppice_> T3sl4: precedent is a key issue in any legal system derived from the UK
20:59:24 <Ampera> Legislative branches write and approve laws, courts interpret them
20:59:38 <T3sl4> coppice_: or at least not pick a particular brand. Which is ironic, because MasterLock is stupid easy to pick.
20:59:43 <Halcyon> For example, lets say I assault you. There is a "technical breach" but in reality, common sense prevails and it would probably never go anywhere, let alone a report taken.
20:59:46 <Halcyon> It depends on context
20:59:56 <Ampera> Halcyon, then you account for that. Understand all contingencies, and then add generic catch-alls where needed.
21:00:14 <T3sl4> incidentally, they really like MSP430s, not that that is any particular vulnerability, but i wouldn't expect their code to be any more sound than anything else they make
21:00:17 <Halcyon> That's right, courts do interpret them, but it's up to Police to investigate them beyond reasonable doubt.
21:00:20 <Ampera> Don't say, well if he trodded on their lawn with a lockpick in his hair, but he didn't want to burglar them, then it's fine
21:00:28 <coppice_> T3sl4: so, a masterlock should be good for honeypots. hence the term master baiting
21:00:40 <T3sl4> Indeed!
21:01:02 <Ampera> I love masterlock, it ratifies the universal content that if it's important, the average person won't give a shit abou tit.
21:01:36 <coppice_> T3sl4: a number of lock makers use MSP430s
21:01:45 <Halcyon> OK consider this: You walk down the street and are stopped because there was a break and enter up the road 5 minutes ago, the only description is poor (Caucasian male with dark hair), you're stopped and they find lock picking instruments on you. No other evidence to suggest you were there and you have no priors/intel.... should you be charged?
21:02:58 <Ampera> Questioned, investigated, tabs kept, yes, but charged? I don't believe so.
21:03:16 <Halcyon> I wouldn't even go as far as that.
21:03:19 <Ampera> That is a case of due suspicion, and not of extent of a law.
21:03:33 <Halcyon> I would confirm your ID, record your details and let you go. Investigate the crime scene, then come back to you later if required.
21:03:45 <Ampera> That's what I just told you
21:04:05 <Halcyon> Questioning generally happens here post-arrest
21:04:14 <Halcyon> Either on video or audio
21:04:19 <Ampera> Question, recording details, investigated, is this man likely to have done this crime, and keep tabs, come back if it's required
21:04:34 <Ampera> Questioning in my mind is someone asking someone else a question
21:04:37 <Halcyon> So as you see, S.114 isn't really relevant to you
21:04:39 <Halcyon> Because you're a good boy
21:04:44 <Ampera> not saying it is
21:04:45 <Halcyon> But it could be relevant to a dodgy prick
21:04:49 <Ampera> I'm just looking for shit to complain about
21:05:06 <T3sl4> you could complain about the weather
21:05:14 <T3sl4> shake your fist at a cloud, perhaps
21:05:33 <Halcyon> I've charged people before for simply possessing a screw driver without a reason, but then again, they are known break and enter crooks
21:05:33 <Ampera> coppice_ / T3sl4, I think any locksmith that puts a single bit of electronics in their lock should be beaten with a crowbar
21:05:46 <coppice_> t3sl4: its unpleasantly frosty this morning
21:05:48 <Ampera> Halcyon, oh that's nice.
21:06:02 <T3sl4> you too, huh?
21:06:06 <coppice_> Ampera: how else is an electronic lock supposed to work?
21:06:27 <Halcyon> Some dodgy prick at 0200, convictions for break and enter, absolutely, I would charge them under S.114 if they couldn't explain what the hell they are doing.
21:06:31 <Ampera> If you're a good locksmith, you give your lock the best tolerances you can afford, and additional to that, if not even failing so, security bidding
21:06:41 <Ampera> coppice_, talking primarily home and portable locks
21:07:01 <Ampera> car and commercial would be different
21:07:16 <coppice_> lots of rental accomodation uses electronic locks for good reasons these days
21:07:24 <Halcyon> Because they are cheap?
21:07:30 <Halcyon> And can be reset
21:07:47 <Ampera> If I'm renting the first thing I do is find a cardboard box to stick the old lock.
21:08:06 <Halcyon> I just bought some Assa Abloy padlocks with Protec keys... $160 each
21:08:12 <Halcyon> Not cheap
21:08:18 <Ampera> If it's on your home door or bike, don't stick a wire in it
21:08:19 <coppice_> that's a pain for short term rental accomodation
21:08:27 <T3sl4> i like how the ID badges we use are old school 120kHz RFID, no challenge-response, you can read them off in clear text\\\\bits with a scope and func gen
21:08:31 <Ampera> Good locks, Halcyon
21:08:40 <Halcyon> Because they are Finnish :)
21:08:42 <Halcyon> Finns rock
21:08:52 <Ampera> I sense a bit of bias on your part
21:08:58 <Halcyon> Perhaps a little :)
21:08:58 <T3sl4> at that price, i should hope they have a good finnish
21:09:25 <Ampera> Halcyon, oh those are disc locks, with that name they'll have good tolerances and I bet you false gates as well.
21:09:47 <Ampera> don't know how well the padlocks are constructed, but the lock's gonna do you well, so long as you stay away from chineesium knockoffs
21:09:58 <Halcyon> Yep
21:10:05 <coppice_> T3sl4: they would probably argue that the badges are not for high security applications, but that a dumb argument. Its hard to do security really well, but easy to at least do something basic
21:10:19 <Halcyon> I suppose you watch the Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube Ampera?
21:10:30 <Ampera> Halcyon, best most people have is 4-5 pin tumbler locks, no security pins in the US
21:10:46 <T3sl4> they're pretty lax about security in any case, there's a doorbell on the same door and usually someone will come by and let you in even if you don't have a badge, since, who knows, you're probably here to do maint or something
21:10:48 <Ampera> Schlage locks ususally are alright, all of the ones I've come across have 5 pins, 4 spools in the bible
21:10:57 <Ampera> Halcyon, LBL and Bosnianbill, they got me into lockpicking.
21:11:07 <Halcyon> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ
21:11:11 <Halcyon> If you haven't seen it, he is good
21:11:18 <Ampera> *LPL
21:11:20 <Halcyon> Ahh
21:11:22 <Halcyon> :)
21:11:22 <Ampera> Of course I've seen it ya spastic
21:11:31 <T3sl4> LPL and BB are nice videos, haven't watched in a while but they're in the sort of content i like
21:11:34 <Ampera> man is absolutely brilliant with locks, really impressive
21:11:55 <Halcyon> T3sl4: I do like the format. Similar to John Ward. Really factual and to the point.
21:12:03 <coppice_> T3sl4: most people doing near field stuff can't even give a you a good reason why they would choose either 115kHz or 13.6MHz
21:12:04 <Ampera> Halcyon & T3sl4, this is my pickset: https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/product_p/tux1.htm
21:12:22 <T3sl4> here's the thing. let's look at the thing. let's break/open/explore the thing. this is what i like and don't like about the thing.
21:12:23 <Ampera> supplemented by some replacement medium hooks
21:12:34 <Ampera> 25 thousandths
21:12:39 <Ampera> one with a handle too
21:12:43 <Ampera> or was it two
21:13:38 <T3sl4> coppice_: don't think i've ever seen a comparison of why, either; the 13.56 systems tend to have actually-okayish security functionality in them at least, i assume due to the higher available bitrate making such a system feasible
21:13:55 <Ampera> well I'm about to fall asleep
21:13:58 <Ampera> night night, dipshit
21:14:34 <coppice_> T3sl4: I think having adequate power for the crypto processing is a bigger deal than the bit rate
21:15:40 <T3sl4> yeah, that
21:15:57 <T3sl4> Ampera: <3, fuckwad
21:16:35 <Halcyon> Damn I love Lithium grease, my doors are so silent
21:16:44 <Halcyon> Not a single creak or scrapey noise
21:16:53 <Halcyon> Night Amps
21:17:33 <coppice_> you need some dilithium grease
21:21:15 <Halcyon> This is the MSDS for it: https://www.mmpindustrial.com.au/files/29/Motortech-SDS/53/MT107-Lithium-Grease-SDS-2015.pdf
21:21:24 <Halcyon> *shrug*
21:25:15 <T3sl4> more or less edible, innit?
21:25:39 <Halcyon> I probably wouldn't :P
21:25:48 <Halcyon> Doesn't smell great
21:25:56 <T3sl4> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RaMH4CWyyg
21:26:50 <Halcyon> ROFL
21:28:50 <coppice_> I think somewhere here drinks the soy sauce. I seem to buy a lot
21:29:01 <coppice_> someone
21:29:54 <T3sl4> i use too much teriyaki
21:30:17 <coppice_> we usually make that ourselves
21:31:47 <T3sl4> i should probably look that up
21:37:01 Quit: bigbadwolv ([email protected]) Changing hosts
21:37:02 Join: bigbadwolv ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:37:33 <T3sl4> mmm, a hot mug of beef broth with rice noodles in it
21:37:42 <T3sl4> and some tomatoes on the side
21:37:49 * T3sl4 plinks cherry tomatoes at coppice_
21:48:58 <Halcyon> Just stock and noodles?
21:49:01 <Halcyon> Nothing else
21:49:19 <T3sl4> basically a manual cup noodle, flavor packet, no veg
22:11:45 <coppice_> what's wrong with stock and noodles?
22:12:05 <coppice_> especially vermicelli
22:31:30 <Halcyon> Hehe
22:31:34 <Halcyon> I've never tried it
22:32:44 <coppice_> people in east asia eat a lot of quick to make (not quite instant) noodles which are just vermicelli and flavour packs
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