// #eevblog — 2021-11-07
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00:12:19 * electrohead yawns, demands coffee
00:16:00 Join: MRiddickW ([email protected]) to #eevblog
00:16:00 Quit: MRiddickW ([email protected]) Changing hosts
00:34:04 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
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02:00:43 Quit: Tezzers| ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:10:22 <arch> why is it that for a synchronous buck converter, they use two NMOS for the switching side and one NMOS for the synchronous diode? why not use 1 lower RDS mosfet for the switching side?
02:10:24 * jaymax pistolwhips electrohead with a pot of coffee
02:11:11 <Ampera> http://imgur.com/a/B3oj5s3
02:11:38 <arch> this aint instagram bruh
02:11:45 <arch> we talk about electronics and tentacles in this channel
02:12:26 <jaymax> But that looks like pork tentacles to me. Greasy pork tentacles.
02:21:01 * electrohead drowns
02:23:20 <Ampera> if this were instagram I'd have made sure to show my cleavage in the picture
02:24:38 <Ampera> http://imgur.com/a/xkaB0ve
02:24:40 <Ampera> pt. 2
02:26:12 <jaymax> I dunno Ampera, you say you're not showing the cleavage but no hesitation showing off your cake.
02:29:57 Quit: Tezzers ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
02:38:02 <arch> show us your buns
03:14:14 <DHess_US> <arch> why is it that for a synchronous buck converter, they use two NMOS for the switching side and one NMOS for the synchronous diode? why not use 1 lower RDS mosfet for the switching side?
03:14:21 <DHess_US> Higher efficiency
03:14:26 <DHess_US> They don'
03:15:00 <DHess_US> They could use a larger part instead of two, but the idea is that conduction losses for the top and bottom depend on duty cycle which depends on the input to output voltage ratio
03:15:12 <DHess_US> The current through the switches is the same.
03:16:39 <DHess_US> So if the top is on twice as long as the bottom, then if the bottom has twice the resistance for twice the conductance losses, half the capacitance means higher efficiency.
03:17:33 <DHess_US> It balances the conduction and charge pumping losses for highest efficiency.
03:19:18 <Kuschelpony> interesting explanation, thanks
03:24:22 Quit: clarkos ([email protected]) EOF from client
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03:27:19 <electrohead> https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/qnlzn2/i_had_to_see_this_so_you_guys_have_to_see_it_as/
03:27:24 <EEVBot> [Title] - I had to see this, so you guys have to see it as well : pcmasterrace
03:32:26 <rust_collector> oooh, so pretty! it is like the sea
03:34:50 <DHess_US> Eat the elephant a bite at a time.
03:47:37 Join: Nothing\ (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) to #eevblog
03:48:22 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
03:48:32 <Nothing\> ahoy ahoy
03:53:59 <Nothing\> so, here's that mystery rectumfrier i pulled out of a microwave oven
03:54:05 <Nothing\> https://ibb.co/N6prnv8
03:54:06 <EEVBot> [Title] - retumfrier-front — ImgBB
03:54:17 <Nothing\> and back
03:54:19 <Nothing\> https://ibb.co/Fm8Wyv3
03:54:20 <EEVBot> [Title] - rectumfrier-back — ImgBB
03:54:52 <Nothing\> son a single identifying mark
03:58:30 <Nothing\> plus, the thing's pretty big
03:58:38 <Nothing\> 35mm across
03:59:04 <Nothing\> big for a rectifier, anyways. Except maybe a mercury arc tube
03:59:31 <rust_collector> that is not very special
03:59:52 <Nothing\> no, but i'd like to know what the forward voltage on the diodes is
04:00:01 <Nothing\> so i'm gonna characterize it at some point
04:00:07 <Kuschelpony> looks like a usual bridge rectifier toi me
04:00:23 <Kuschelpony> likely around 0,7V
04:00:29 <DHess_US> The length is to meet creepage requirements for the voltage.
04:00:29 <Nothing\> i figure just trial and error some resistors in until i hit as close to 1 amp as possible then measure the voltage drop
04:00:34 <Nothing\> that should do it
04:00:57 <DHess_US> It isn't large to be high power. It is large so that surface contamination does not cause high voltage breakdown.
04:00:57 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, nah it's too high for my meter to register
04:01:12 <Kuschelpony> oh thats unusual
04:01:16 <Nothing\> which is what happened with the large, discreet diode i took out of the same microwave
04:01:38 <Nothing\> so i tested its V_fwd at 100ml
04:01:51 <Kuschelpony> i have not yet seen a block type bridge rectifier that has more thn one classic diode drop
04:02:09 <DHess_US> I've seen them with 3.
04:02:10 <Nothing\> er 100ma
04:02:11 <Kuschelpony> curious about that one
04:02:12 <Nothing\> not ml
04:02:13 <Nothing\> lol
04:02:15 <Nothing\> but anyways
04:02:30 <Nothing\> at 100ma the discreet diode was dropping around 6 volts!
04:02:44 <Nothing\> that's why i'm not surprised about the rectifier
04:03:00 <Kuschelpony> i know the discrete diode stacks
04:03:04 <Nothing\> and am also curious to characterize one of its diodes
04:03:37 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, you mean like, putt several in series to give them higher tolerances?
04:03:52 <Nothing\> like how power transistors do with transistors in parallel
04:04:10 <Nothing\> just put a bunch in parallel to share the load
04:04:14 <DHess_US> A BYT62 is 2400 volts and 350 mA
04:04:15 <DHess_US> with a forward drop of 3 volts.
04:04:28 <Kuschelpony> nothing, no but to add up the reverse blocking voltage by stacking several diode junctions in series within one package
04:04:49 <Nothing\> ah yeah
04:04:57 <Nothing\> i didn't think of thta
04:05:00 <Nothing\> clever
04:05:04 <Nothing\> that's why i love EE
04:05:08 <Nothing\> little tricks like that
04:05:47 <DHess_US> Other diodes include BY203, SF1200, SF1600, and BYV26
04:06:00 <DHess_US> These all use multiple junctions in series in the same standard package.
04:06:24 <Nothing\> that and it's the first time i've really seen math and physics used in practical applications so that really made me fall in love with it
04:06:35 <DHess_US> The junctions are processed to be avalanche rated so they don't need resistance-capacitor balancing.
04:06:46 <Nothing\> i was just thinking
04:07:12 <Nothing\> if we scaled every chip up so it used tubes wherever there was a transistor, no matter how miniscule
04:07:26 <DHess_US> Also, nothing prevents you from putting a bunch of avalanche rated rectifiers in series to get enough reverse blockign voltage.
04:07:27 <Nothing\> how much area they'd all take up, roughly
04:07:34 <Kuschelpony> i might tomorrow make a photo of that rectifier i salvaged from junkbox yesterday
04:07:51 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, i'd definitely be down to see that
04:07:59 <Nothing\> no pressure :)
04:08:34 <Nothing\> https://ibb.co/x3NNnh4
04:08:35 <EEVBot> [Title] - Smokey-Cool-cat — ImgBB
04:08:39 <Nothing\> heh, my big kitty
04:08:59 <Nothing\> note how just his body's as big as the top of the couch cushion, nevermind his tail
04:09:25 <Nothing\> guy's huge. and he's supposed to keep growing for another 2 or 3 years
04:10:16 <Nothing\> haven't measured him recently, but last time he was around 3.5 feet
04:10:26 Quit: MRiddickW ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:10:47 <Nothing\> lol but he's only a year old so he still thinks he's the size of a kitten
04:10:47 <rust_collector> ok, but what is his density?
04:11:08 <Nothing\> rust_collector, probably close to 1kg/m^3
04:11:17 <Nothing\> slightly less
04:11:26 <rust_collector> wow, that is pretty special
04:11:32 <Nothing\> in general, mammalian bodies are slightly buoyant
04:11:49 <rust_collector> that is far from slightly, just saying
04:11:51 <Nothing\> between the air in our lungs and the fat in the rest of us
04:11:59 <Nothing\> and the rest being made up of mostly water
04:12:22 <Nothing\> rust_collector, it depends on how full your lungs are
04:12:33 <Nothing\> i remember playing around with it and experimenting as a kid
04:12:46 <Nothing\> and i found if my lungs were completely purged, i would indeed sink like a stone
04:12:51 <rust_collector> mmhmm, but 1 kg per 1000 litres is very lightweight
04:13:03 <Nothing\> but so long as they had at least SOME air in them, i was able to float without much effort
04:13:22 <Nothing\> oh, bah
04:13:25 <Nothing\> you know what i mean
04:13:27 <rust_collector> hah
04:13:34 <Nothing\> i'll be honest
04:14:17 <rust_collector> all cats should be shaved, before measuring... I agree
04:14:41 <Nothing\> cm^3 and m^3 and stuff like that confuses me for some reason
04:15:29 <Nothing\> like i figure, 100cm=1m therefor, 100cm^2 should = 1^2m and 100cm^3 should = 1^3m
04:15:33 <Nothing\> but i know it doesn't
04:15:48 <Nothing\> by a factor of something like 1000
04:15:51 <rust_collector> 1 cm each way, and 1m each way seems good enough for me
04:16:39 <Nothing\> yeah see so i'd expect that 1 cubic meter would be equal to 1 liter which is 100 cubic centimeters
04:16:42 <Nothing\> but it's not
04:16:50 <Nothing\> a liter isn't even close to a cubic meter
04:16:50 * Ampera hugs Nothing\
04:16:53 * Ampera oxidizes rust_collector
04:17:04 * Nothing\ hugs Ampera
04:17:11 <Nothing\> hey man, how goes?
04:17:12 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
04:17:19 <Ampera> tired
04:17:23 <Nothing\> same
04:17:28 <Kuschelpony> nothinmg 1m³ = 100cm*100cm*100cm = 1 000 000 cm³
04:17:30 <Nothing\> and sore
04:17:40 <Nothing\> but it's getting better as my meds kick in
04:17:40 <Ampera> I need to go chuck some aircons out of windows
04:17:49 <Kuschelpony> and a liter is very very close to 0,001 m³
04:18:02 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, yeah it took me years before i realized that lol
04:18:08 <Some_Person> Goodwill stuff; bought an oddly-shaped 3M mouse: https://imgur.com/a/c1r36Nc
04:18:08 <EEVBot> [Title] - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
04:18:30 <rust_collector> a metric mouse... that is cool
04:18:37 <Nothing\> i had a shitty school, so it was difficult to be motivated to want to learn anything
04:19:01 <Nothing\> and beinng bullied to the point where i dropped out in grade 9 didn't help either
04:19:08 <Kuschelpony> i couldnt resist https://upload.yax.im/upload/L_2Ulqu4S02SdBJH/gleichrichter.JPG
04:19:09 <Nothing\> thank god for the internet
04:19:18 <Nothing\> and tim berners lee
04:19:42 <rust_collector> that one looks much more more
04:20:38 <DHess_US> Nothing special about stud mount rectifiers. I have a drawer full of them.
04:20:48 <Nothing\> Kuschelpony, actually i should have been taught this in school because i remember in, perhaps it was grade 3 or 4 we had these blocks you could snap together that were 1 cubic cm each
04:21:03 <Nothing\> so you could sort of get a hands on approach to the subject
04:21:27 <Nothing\> but i think they were teaching us more about exponents
04:21:44 <Nothing\> er no wait
04:21:51 <Nothing\> it was grade 3 so it was more simple than that
04:22:04 <Kuschelpony> dhess, the special thing about them is that i could salvage them from the junk container
04:22:09 <Nothing\> eh it's irrelevant anyway-
04:22:36 <DHess_US> Kuschelpony, that is how I got mine.
04:22:44 <Kuschelpony> it got pretty rare to have any of these containers accessible at all
04:22:56 <Nothing\> oh
04:22:57 <Nothing\> hey
04:23:06 <Nothing\> i've got an online game you guys might enjoy
04:23:21 <Nothing\> i'd say it's closest genre would be a zachlike
04:23:28 <DHess_US> I have a high voltage rectifier module with like 50 stud rectifiers in series with resistor-capacitor balancing. It's like 20kv
04:23:32 <Nothing\> which are puzzle games based around programming
04:24:07 <Nothing\> but the gist of the game is to use assembly to hack locks by reverse engineering code
04:25:23 <Nothing\> if only i could find the darn link
04:26:46 <Nothing\> here it is
04:26:47 <Nothing\> https://microcorruption.com/
04:26:54 <Nothing\> for anyone interesetd
04:28:11 <Nothing\> lol
04:28:13 <Nothing\> https://ibb.co/9YQxTKb
04:28:14 <EEVBot> [Title] - 510-thread-cartridges-2 — ImgBB
04:28:25 <Nothing\> i think i have a problem
04:28:43 <Nothing\> plus, each of those represents $50-$60 spent
04:44:37 <rust_collector> at least the money is well spent. and you get to keep those things, that look like a broken ballpoint pen
04:50:25 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #eevblog
04:50:25 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o steve30
04:54:29 <arch> Kuschelpony, those are the diodes that if they fail smell?
04:54:49 <Kuschelpony> no, thats already silicon diodes
04:55:04 <Kuschelpony> what smelled terrible were selenium rectifiers, two generations earlier
04:57:46 <arch> Some_Person, how much are those desktop towers going for? i see a Dell Precision T3400 tower there lol. i have one of those
04:58:30 <arch> and where is that goodwill located?
04:58:36 <arch> looks like they got some good stuff
06:12:30 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #eevblog
06:12:42 <jackbrown> hello
06:12:43 <jackbrown> anyone?
06:13:34 <Kuschelpony> Hello
06:14:43 <rust_collector> NOO! no one here
06:16:52 <rust_collector> no one at all
06:17:14 <Ampera> rust_collector, why are you not not here
06:17:20 <Ampera> you are a crime
06:17:27 <Ampera> and a bad
06:17:35 <Ampera> go to bed with that tonight
06:17:37 <Ampera> see how you sleep
06:17:38 <rust_collector> yes, just the way we like it
06:17:56 * Ampera launches a few signal flares and then starts screaming melodically
06:17:59 <rust_collector> aah yes, thanks, I have not slept well lately, but I am sure I will now
06:18:49 <Ampera> I thank you
06:19:04 <Ampera> you are like if I didn't have a brother, but like you were a brother to if me
06:19:13 <Ampera> I think
06:19:52 <rust_collector> right, I am like a brother to me. I also think that some times
06:27:15 <jackbrown> ok fine :)
06:27:43 <rust_collector> jackbrown who are you doing?
06:27:58 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4MYAFnG8Cc
06:27:59 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Шестиколесный авто — ЕДЕТ лучше всех!
06:28:00 <jackbrown> Can Anyone help me to test a 130V 19,6A 3950 RPM motor using a 30V 5A bench lab PSU ?
06:28:04 <jackbrown> rust_collector: hell
06:28:05 <jackbrown> o
06:28:53 <Kuschelpony> jackbrown: if its a DC motor it should runb ion thsi supply, just at 25% speed
06:29:01 <jackbrown> It's a treadmill motor, I think it works perfectly, but I want to exclude it first before concentrate on the motherboard
06:30:02 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: ok, so it means that with 130V 19.A it should have 3950RPM and full tourque
06:30:09 <rust_collector> maybe you have to 'kick" it round, to get it going, but I think it should keep spinning on that power?
06:30:23 <Kuschelpony> yes
06:30:29 <Kuschelpony> and yes
06:31:05 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: rust_collector I checked the RPM at 30-32V and they are around 950-1000RPM so I think it's fine, is there a way to check if the Torque with 5A compared to 19.6A is fine too ?
06:31:30 <Kuschelpony> its even a test for health to see if a motor starts and spins well on major undervoltage, it might show issues like uneven rotation from contact issues that might get smoothed out at full power
06:32:01 <Kuschelpony> if it runs well on low power, i see no issues that it looses torquue at full power
06:32:20 <Kuschelpony> if the magnets would have issues you would see it rotating too fast
06:32:32 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: no the question is "Is there a test to check if the torque is fine for that AMPS voltage ?"
06:33:10 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: isn't the opposite ? I mean if the magnet have issue wouldn't be rotate slower?
06:33:30 <Kuschelpony> i dont see much way of testing that, but meant if it runs fine at lower voltage there is not really something to doubt about torque at ful current
06:34:16 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: ok, so as I suspect is the treadmill control board
06:34:48 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: rust_collector since I'm struggling to find a replacement, is there a way to search it ? Would be helpful if I post some pictures?
06:35:04 <Kuschelpony> unfortunately thats where i have no experience, these things are completely diferent to the motor controls i am familiar with
06:35:42 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: ok thanks
06:35:50 <jackbrown> if someone want to take a look here it is https://imgur.com/a/AZjvu8w
06:35:50 <EEVBot> [Title] - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
06:36:20 <Kuschelpony> maybe tomorrow, im almost faling asleep here
06:36:33 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: thanks for your help anyway
06:36:42 <Kuschelpony> im happy to help when i can
06:37:04 <jackbrown> If I would like to buy, upgrade my PSU LAB to something that is capable of 130V 19.6A is there a convenient way without spend too much money?
06:37:28 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: thanks!
06:37:48 <rust_collector> how many wires does it have going to the motor?
06:38:26 <Kuschelpony> variac plsu rectifier
06:38:37 <rust_collector> and, I don't think you want to upgrade your lab supply to anything like that. just get a cheap general purpose power thing, imo
06:39:07 <rust_collector> or what pony saud
06:39:10 <rust_collector> said
06:40:37 <jackbrown> rust_collector: 2
06:40:56 <jackbrown> rust_collector: variac isn't a good thing to buy?
06:41:11 <rust_collector> yeah, variac is good.
06:41:31 <rust_collector> but a lab power supply, that will do all that power... maybe not?
06:42:58 <jackbrown> rust_collector: my power lab supply is only 30V 5A
06:43:02 <jackbrown> here is the motor https://imgur.com/a/Aq6R5jo
06:43:03 <EEVBot> [Title] - Imgur: The magic of the Internet
06:44:36 <rust_collector> yes, but when you test a big motor, you don't need much precision, you just need enough power, I think. so get a cheaper "general purpose" power supply, imo, for the times you need a lot of power. a high power lab supply would be very expensive?
06:45:24 <Kuschelpony> just as rustcollector said
06:45:51 <jackbrown> rust_collector: varica is fine ?
06:46:08 <rust_collector> a variac and rectifier will work.
06:46:37 <rust_collector> remember that they do not isolate, like a real transformer does
06:49:12 <rust_collector> if you do find a 500V and million amp lab supply, that you feel like paying for, by all means, get it
06:50:28 <jackbrown> 500V lab supply rust_collector ? how much does it cost ?
06:50:43 <arch> a lot
06:50:48 <rust_collector> I don't know, a lot more than I need to think about, lol
06:51:02 <rust_collector> but, if you see one, sure
06:52:08 <jackbrown> rust_collector: arch yeah variac doesn't rectify, just does from 220 to lower voltage AC
06:53:27 <rust_collector> yes, that is one thing, but it does not have galvanic isolation either, so you are poking around with mains, just at a lower voltage. That is just the safety part of it. and yes, you need a rectifier after it, to make dc
06:54:05 <jackbrown> rust_collector: is it costy a rectifier for 220V 20A?
06:54:36 <rust_collector> nah, I don't think that would be very expensive? but I never looked for one
06:54:42 <jackbrown> doesn't seem so https://www.ebay.it/itm/183804674958?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2acb9cc38e:g:j2UAAOSw8kFc0E~~&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS7UXID%252BRPOSNsnm8kYPghtBdTORU%252BORs%252BmQg%252BXH2iM8K%252FiODNsdgVPAFo0zCavGJyt74MJZhtaj1sf%252Fa%252BEB0Z%252F2dO6fHOTBPXQ9voZLWRfbmEazFwW7CSvLYzT%252Bfh8lEGP9zUqbG8mjoSKLvcAL7bLqHfT9vWhw2jiQmhJ%252F1DwaLwHvhDAd8G6eK8rMq2nl6%252F%252BmmO4NWhTMb6VBoh422qcV3Dre0opFxc
06:54:43 <jackbrown> O5oPS7JbfvNEu9yhsjtHbKwwOy%252F8gVr43MnnPT8f9yg8XDK3BroN5v%252FrpxqH2A8ZbvIuXCaMItIEvOVdG6%252BB20BL3SX%252FhGwFP3OjKsTs1KCYwN%252FJ3QJHs97qqnWCbK6uzuCEe22Lw%252BDSR9C3GuDWW67hh7C8hBG0unAsOzGxf8P3ooDbPE67nSpwzhSIMSNe1IADRQwVFbTpoMKL0t4tAIE3aRxwMTT8calcex%252BBy%252FfRWB8XJWT%252FlewllVSywdQ9HWlD1L9UbHgekanD3GR%252B5iGwVx5o88g6AqHvhiUt9GMDL6AgwmuL%252B8OY9n5RhUAXEzctpa4WvKIbiHxqRXlM9nV8Hpm18FeW2zbyYy%252Bzs0Dc1zOIt6lWOeIvTlF84BYmHwlmdfbsoXcKlICSxiC7
06:54:43 <jackbrown> Op2WG0cFrxIJ3n%252B37Y9QrvOzr3RLB9U7DtUoiO115NgBYNXD1W9Uef%252BVsjm7iGy402W2pap7YmZA69Oemc%252F6E2B0%252B%252BM9pTTUhBe5brdTvla4kyp%252FJkuubZ8o9oISoyYkcGt09OcE714M8hdPRPHrQHeFvisOOjcZ6gm9%252BUu1nNKTxlo0XSCaP14zz4ZUgAAj%252B1D8cs7i4Z5hfg966U0YKaualzhvmali2A%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM6s2G7Z5f
06:54:44 <EEVBot> [Title] - Ponte a diodi KBPC5010 50A 1000V faston monofase SEP raddrizzatore Bridge Diode | eBay
06:54:47 <jackbrown> ops
06:55:02 <jackbrown> https://www.ebay.it/itm/183804674958?
06:55:03 <EEVBot> [Title] - Ponte a diodi KBPC5010 50A 1000V faston monofase SEP raddrizzatore Bridge Diode | eBay
06:55:05 <jackbrown> sorry
06:55:07 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
06:56:11 <jackbrown> rust_collector: did you take a look to the one from ebay that I found? Does it mean that he can handle a 1000V 50A AC current and rectify to 1000V 50A DC ?
06:56:45 <arch> not without a heatsink; and im pretty sure most of those are grey-market or fake
06:57:50 <rust_collector> sort of yes. almost-ish. but it should be ok at 220v and some amps. if you can get one local, that is probably a better idea
06:59:26 <jackbrown> rust_collector: the one that I posted in the ebay link is sold from a show few kilometers from my house
07:00:00 <jackbrown> rust_collector: anyway you think that a 1000V/50A rectifier is too big and maybe too much inaccurate for my purpose
07:00:16 <rust_collector> ok, if you trust those, then go for it
07:00:23 <rust_collector> no, it is fine
07:00:38 <rust_collector> that is like saying it would be too safe
07:01:21 <rust_collector> get one, or two, and put it or them on a piece of metal, and have fun
07:01:23 <jackbrown> rust_collector: so Variac + rectifier basically you have a rudimental very imprecisy AC/DC psu lab
07:01:36 <jackbrown> bacically is good for using with motors and bigger stuff
07:02:03 <arch> what about capacitor? you will have pulsating DC otherwise
07:02:35 <rust_collector> pretty much. but don't touch the wires, ok? yes, you should have some smoothing, and all kinds of stuff
07:03:26 <jackbrown> rust_collector: sure i'll but I have still to buy variac and the rectifier first
07:03:36 <jackbrown> rust_collector: does 130V + 19,6A could kill a person ?
07:03:43 <rust_collector> oh yes
07:03:50 <rust_collector> several people
07:04:03 <jackbrown> wow,what's the minimum V and A that is safe ?
07:04:54 <rust_collector> uh, it depends. I would see 50v as safe-ish
07:05:25 <rust_collector> some might disagree
07:06:45 <jackbrown> rust_collector: isn't V * A that kills you ? I mean 50V 0.5A is safe, but 50V + 50A isn't, am I wrong?
07:07:35 <arch> a handful of mA across the heart can cause it to fibrillate
07:08:01 <rust_collector> well, in a way, but at a low enough voltage, the current can not pass thru your body, so it is not an issue. if you are well connected to the supply, just a few milliamperes will kill you
07:08:30 <arch> fun fact: once i grabbed the AC output of a ~100V power transformer with both hands, but i didn't realize it until...i tried to breathe and realized i was having quite a bit of trouble inhaling
07:08:44 <jackbrown> wow
07:08:44 <arch> your diaphragm can also become inhibited
07:09:11 <arch> but it was a low current transformer, but you see the danger nonetheless
07:10:16 <arch> high frequency power supplies => you get burnt; current runs on the surface of conductors, so you can char your skin. try it for yourself, with a small CCFL transformer
07:10:42 <arch> you don't feel the "shock", but you feel the heat
07:10:48 <jackbrown> I got
07:11:49 <arch> T3sl4, are you around?
07:11:58 <arch> or TheDude
07:12:51 <jackbrown> basically the bad of these devices is that when nobody i capable of repair the board, you have to trash the whole treadmill (with beast motor and great structure that costed around 3800€ )
07:12:59 <jackbrown> this is something that I hate
07:13:03 <arch> in some schematics of a plus-minus power supply using a positive voltage, i saw anti-parallel diodes across the output and input. why is that?
07:13:51 <jackbrown> arch: which pictures are you looking ?
07:14:38 <arch> for example, a Cuk converter. i've seen one where the output had a diode reverse biased, along with the input
07:14:48 <arch> not sure if that's for reverse-voltage protection, or something else
07:15:40 <jackbrown> i'm not following you arch sorry
07:15:50 <arch> im trying to find a picture
07:15:52 <arch> or schematic
07:17:10 <jackbrown> arch: I wish, I don't think it would be easy to find it's kind of proprietary, the treadmill is a Tunturi T85F 2004
07:17:17 <jackbrown> 2004 year of production of course
07:18:01 <arch> jackbrown, if the motor works fine, and you have some programming experience, im sure you can make it work again by using an Arduino for the treadmill speed setting controller
07:19:30 <jackbrown> arch: you mean to make a universal board using arduino, that's an idea, but I don't have experience in using arduino, plus I should check if it's possilbe to connect to this board the treadmill interface
07:20:34 <arch> https://elliotmade.com/2020/06/26/treadmill-controller-reverse-engineering/
07:20:36 <EEVBot> [Title] - Not Acceptable!
07:22:44 <jackbrown> arch: thanks
07:24:17 <rust_collector> with 2 wires to the motor, do you think it is more than a simple voltage control sort of thing?
07:26:18 <jackbrown> rust_collector: basically it's just a voltage control board, it's just a little bit more complicated because it handles treadmil inclination, various training programs, heart rate data that can modify dynamicly treadmill speed. etc
07:28:47 <arch> you *could* do all that with an arduino. look around for sketches
07:29:07 <arch> might be a good long term project
07:30:05 <rust_collector> or, get it going as a threadmill, and forget the other extra stuff, until you figure that out
07:30:22 <jackbrown> arch: i think very long :)
07:30:47 <jackbrown> rust_collector: basically a voltage control board could make the motor run and that's all
07:31:05 <rust_collector> yes, and you can use it as a threadmill...
07:32:27 <rust_collector> stick a couple relays in there,and a switch, to get the incline things working. By then, it will be spring, and you can go outside and go for a walk
07:32:29 <jackbrown> yes I know, but was very addicted to the various training program
07:32:56 <jackbrown> rust_collector: lol :)
07:33:16 <rust_collector> sure, keep working on it. but a working threadmill would be better than an awkward clothes storage thingie?
07:34:01 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
07:35:45 <jackbrown> rust_collector: I still love my treadmill because it's in my house, i run on it even in the summer using a fan pointed at me an getting a shower directly after, going out to walk is a different thing for me, I don't push my self so much to feel my heart beating as I do on the treadmill at home
07:36:18 <jackbrown> plus a good treadmill at home could keep you consistent since you don't have exuses (it's raining, it's cold etc. etc.)
07:37:27 <rust_collector> stop being a wuss, get out there, grab a wheelbarrow full of rocks, and push it up a mountain
07:37:44 <rust_collector> rain never hurt anyone, much
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08:37:15 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
08:46:08 Join: Dude ([email protected]) to #eevblog
08:46:15 <Dude> yo
08:46:26 Nick: Dude is now known as TheDude2
08:47:31 <Kuschelpony> sleepless
08:48:29 <TheDude2> well zen, take a nap
08:48:30 * Ampera hugs TheDude2
08:48:33 <TheDude2> and zen fire ze missiles
08:49:05 <Ampera> how are you doing TheDude2
08:49:34 <TheDude2> I'm alright
08:49:50 <TheDude2> I'm trying to do stuff with the raspberry again
08:49:57 <Ampera> ok
08:50:00 <Ampera> why
08:50:18 <TheDude2> I want to make it work with the GPIB adapter
08:50:20 * electrohead places cherries on top of TheDude2
08:50:30 <TheDude2> also lol
08:50:44 <TheDude2> I have the raspberry connected in my apartment
08:50:51 <TheDude2> and I'm at my parents' place
08:50:59 <TheDude2> SSH'd into my main machine
08:51:07 <TheDude2> and then again SSH'd into the rpi :D
08:51:29 <electrohead> tunnels \o/
08:51:35 <rust_collector> aaah, happy family things
08:51:38 <TheDude2> SSHception
08:51:51 <Ampera> I hate all of you
08:51:57 <rust_collector> ssh back to them, and turn off the tv
08:51:59 <TheDude2> :(
08:52:10 <TheDude2> nah
08:52:17 <TheDude2> no "smart" TV here
08:52:22 <Ampera> how are you elecrodude
08:52:31 <Ampera> er, electro
08:52:34 <TheDude2> I wouldn't let them buy that crap
08:53:01 <Ampera> TV is gay
08:54:41 <TheDude2> yes
08:54:47 <TheDude2> but boomers are addicted to it
08:55:37 <TheDude2> they would literally rather sit there for an hour and a half listening to some people waffle at a press conference than read the boiled-down recap on the internet in 5 minutes
08:55:47 <Ampera> the internet is gay
08:56:12 <TheDude2> no u
08:56:40 <Ampera> well yes
08:56:42 <Ampera> I am on the internet
08:56:45 <Ampera> and I like you
08:56:47 <Ampera> therefore
08:57:59 <TheDude2> why are u gae?
08:58:09 <Ampera> mental disorder
08:58:35 <TheDude2> confusion of the highest orda
08:58:58 <Ampera> depression of the highest order
08:59:02 <Ampera> pain of the highest order
08:59:15 <Ampera> every day having to live with my own innate failings as a human
08:59:29 <Ampera> having to face being broken without any hope of getting better
09:00:28 <TheDude2> I uh... am not sure if this is still just random shitposting or if you're actually being serious
09:02:53 <Ampera> the funniest jokes are the ones which are absolutely real
09:03:32 <Ampera> there's nothing more enjoyable than laughing at someone in agonizing pain, especially if that person is yourself
09:03:57 <TheDude2> I could think of several things more enjoyable than that
09:04:01 <TheDude2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:04:35 <Ampera> that's because you're healthy
09:04:39 <Ampera> you have that to enjoy
09:04:50 <rust_collector> https://imgur.com/gallery/TL3rEmVhttps://imgur.com/gallery/TL3rEmV
09:04:50 <EEVBot> [Title] - Zoinks! You've taken a wrong turn.
09:10:13 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:34:04 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Quit: Konversation terminated!
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09:35:08 <rust_collector> Ampera here is my nice... food thing> https://snipboard.io/LeE90Z.jpg
09:35:32 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
09:35:33 <Ampera> that is indeed possibly edible
09:38:31 <rust_collector> oh yes
09:39:04 <rust_collector> I like it, I "make" this a lot.
09:39:14 <rust_collector> which means heating it up a bit
09:45:32 <DHess_US> https://imgur.com/gallery/wQnenKA
09:45:34 <EEVBot> [Title] - woobwoobwoobwoobwoobwoobwoob - Album on Imgur
10:11:46 <electrohead> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf2p8Hj3Uxs
10:11:47 <EEVBot> [Title] - Youtube: Some of my old Acorn ARM hardware designs
10:24:38 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #eevblog
11:19:45 <arch> T3sl4, https://i.imgur.com/5CIsGX0.png ; my reference is this: https://www.ti.com/tool/PMP8639
11:20:03 <arch> just gotta wire up the control section
11:20:28 <T3sl4> love the symmetry of cuk
11:21:09 <arch> cock
11:21:20 <T3sl4> chook
11:22:04 <arch> i read a few appnotes that said putting a ground plane under inductors is bad. but i guess since the cuk has low ripple and emi, it's ok
11:22:21 <T3sl4> it's silly advice
11:23:33 <arch> im curious how this will operate, since i can't really tailor the loop comp; controller has it built in
11:23:42 <arch> wonder if it'll start squealing
11:23:52 <T3sl4> lil piggy
11:24:35 <arch> i;ve been using a damn JBL bluetooth speaker the past few weeks, ever since my damn amp broke. ugh...hopefully i have this built by next week
11:25:26 <arch> i do have a 32V printer power supply. i suppose i could put two caps in series and make a virtual ground, and see if it works decently enough
11:26:22 <arch> or just wait until this is finished. i'll wait...this should be a fun build
11:26:27 <T3sl4> i did that once. it's fine, it just clips on large bass hits, as you'd expect
11:28:22 <arch> i've become a huge fan of those TO-277 (SMPC) diodes, and those PPAK (SOIC-8 on steroids) packages
11:28:32 <arch> amazing how efficiently they dissipate heat into the copperclad
11:28:52 <T3sl4> well, yeah
11:29:10 <T3sl4> they dont come as big as SMC or DPAK diodes tho
11:29:53 <T3sl4> which seems odd given the lead frames on SMC vs the flat tab on the other
11:30:13 <T3sl4> that said, last one i used was 10A 150V schottky i think, which did a fine job indeed
11:32:17 <arch> last week i had fun soldering a SC-70 package by hand: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps61222.pdf?
11:32:32 <arch> it's about the size of a 0805, but with 6 legs
11:32:55 <T3sl4> sot363?
11:33:12 <arch> yes
11:33:21 <T3sl4> yeah, easy enough
11:33:57 <arch> not really, if you're etching. 0.25mm clearances; you gotta do a nice transfer
11:34:32 <arch> but, i found it easier than doing MSOP packages
11:34:37 <arch> fuck i hate MSOP for toner transfers
11:34:52 <T3sl4> same pitch, more pins
11:36:18 <T3sl4> not even too bad hand-carved, make two cuts in a cross, then make two more cuts precisely spaced
11:36:42 <T3sl4> but yeah, if your toner isn't sticking, that's a bit of a problem
11:49:00 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - RT @QuinnDunki: A moment of silence for my beloved Micronta multimeter. I bought it new in 1981 and it finally succumbed to corrosion. This…
11:54:35 <steve30> I bought a new pack of K-Y Jelly today. Apparently they're soon rebranding it to Kynect.
11:57:18 Quit: TheDude ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
12:03:49 <arch> are are you gonna do with it
12:04:24 <T3sl4> https://i.imgur.com/Mmvr4Xx.gif
12:05:20 <arch> naruhodo *strokes imaginary beard*
12:05:23 <rust_collector> so, is that a thing now? being careful with the little buckets, and have them refilled?
12:05:49 <T3sl4> muh bukket
12:11:39 <arch> bucket regulator
12:12:11 <arch> https://www.epanorama.net/sff/Power%20Electronics/Thyristors-SCRs_and_Triacs/Bucket_Regulator.pdf
12:13:55 <T3sl4> i wonder how much that stresses the zener
12:15:12 <T3sl4> would be interesting with a GTO
12:17:19 <arch> what's a GTO? the weeb within me says Great Teacher Onizuka, but you probably meant something else
12:17:29 <T3sl4> Gate Turnoff Thyristor
12:17:40 <arch> ahh
12:18:15 <T3sl4> when the SCR is on, the gate is a Vbe above cathode, because that's where current flows through past internally
12:18:43 <T3sl4> with enough current sinking, it can be turned off, though it's only reliable (and modest turn-off gain) with specific (GTO) types
12:20:54 <steve30> I'll use it to Kynect with T3sl4 :p
12:21:22 * T3sl4 lubricates steve30's coffee mug
12:22:00 * arch films
12:23:34 * T3sl4 (soap) films arch
12:23:48 * Ampera hugs T3sl4
12:23:50 * Ampera pets steve30
12:23:58 <T3sl4> Ampera!
12:24:04 * Ampera gives arch a hentai bodypillow
12:24:11 * steve30 curls up on Ampera's lap and purrs
12:24:18 <Ampera> how are you doing T3zz4?
12:24:40 <T3sl4> good, Amperra
12:27:58 <arch> https://pm1.narvii.com/6425/8a3efdce317b303db19ae3647b289b5ee3a77555_00.jpg
12:28:49 <arch> also https://i.imgur.com/HUaRHlm.jpg
12:31:24 * T3sl4 hugs arch
12:31:51 <arch> :3
12:56:52 <arch> since a sepic operates in a similar way to flyback, can you have multiple isolated windings on a sepic?
12:57:46 <T3sl4> sure
12:57:53 <arch> cool
12:58:05 <T3sl4> as long as you dont need common mode AC voltage between them (isolation)
12:58:22 <T3sl4> but if you don't mind the worse regulation, you can skip the coupling caps
12:59:09 <arch> ahh, so you *can't* get galvanic isolation for the other windings
12:59:30 <T3sl4> if you're using coupling caps ye
12:59:40 <arch> oo
13:00:09 <arch> so many power supply topologies...so little time
13:00:26 <arch> welp, at least i have sepic checkmarked. that's a pretty neat topology
13:00:32 <arch> now with cuk, i will be really happy
13:00:54 <arch> and next i think i will like to make a zeta; i already have a 4.5-75V COT PFET controller
13:01:23 <arch> constant on time controller. perfect for idiots; no compensation headaches
13:01:47 <DHess_US> Don't you mean constant off-time?
13:02:02 <arch> o is that what it was? hmm. let me double check the controller
13:02:49 <arch> https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm5085.pdf
13:02:52 <arch> constant on-time it says
13:03:19 <arch> either ways, your frequency will vary with load, as i understand
13:03:25 <arch> constant on time or off time
13:05:17 * Ampera has an 18" pepperoni
13:06:25 * T3sl4 fondles Ampera's meat
13:06:32 <T3sl4> Nothing\: http://stevehanov.ca/blog/?id=92
13:06:34 <EEVBot> [Title] - qb.js: An implementation of QBASIC in Javascript
13:07:26 <T3sl4> as if Ampera needed any additional horrors ;)
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13:48:25 Quit: Halcyon_ ([email protected]) EOF from client
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13:53:36 <arch> T3sl4, does this look like an appropriate single-point ground for the controller section? https://i.imgur.com/yPv98GU.png
13:54:19 <arch> note i made an isolation area so the ground pads of the control section connect to the point on the lower right corner
13:54:46 <arch> Q1 pad 1 is the current sense resistor connecting to the power ground
13:59:53 <T3sl4> why bother
14:01:58 <arch> idk, just trying to be proper. i can always pretend to be an engineer, no?
14:02:09 <arch> :D
14:02:45 <T3sl4> engineers do pretend stuff like that all the time, doesn't mean it's better ;)
14:03:34 <arch> touche
14:06:27 <arch> assuming 90% efficiency and 30W power output, heat dissipation is gonna be ~3W. this copperclad is about 50x50mm. i think it should be ok. it will be double sided; back layer full ground plane
14:07:03 <arch> soon...soon....
14:07:27 <arch> ill finish this off tomorrow, and hopefully etch it by Wed or Thurs, assuming work isnt too chaotic
14:09:44 <T3sl4> jojo's ferric adventure
14:22:07 <arch> indeed
14:38:01 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - The dungeon now has 6 x 60W LED panels from the old lab. https://t.co/0T5mMqaQJs
14:39:46 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - I suspect this might not be regular office waste. https://t.co/M2ECwQW5QP
14:41:16 <arch> night T3sl4
14:41:19 <T3sl4> o/
14:41:23 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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15:07:40 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - NEW Video on EEVblog2! WTF happened to this creek? https://t.co/3ex4sAhTOQ
15:13:25 Join: Nothing (~Shmendrick@cpe9050ca20a183-cm9050ca20a180.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) to #eevblog
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18:08:29 * Halcyon throws a kitten at T3sl4
18:09:17 * T3sl4 claws Halcyon
18:14:16 <hsn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_Flap_Railway
18:14:16 <EEVBot> [Title] - Flip Flap Railway - Wikipedia
18:14:18 <hsn> hahahaa
18:14:32 <hsn> Flip Flap Railway was notorious for the extreme g-forces that it produced in its riders. The circular nature of the coaster's loop, as well as its relatively small diameter of 25 feet,[3] meant that it could produce forces of approximately 12 g.[6][7] This caused riders to often experience discomfort and neck injuries from whiplash.[3][7] Modern looping roller coasters use teardrop-shaped loops to greatly reduce these g-forces.
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19:18:09 <Halcyon> Stupid storm
19:20:10 <T3sl4> \o/
19:22:16 Join: Halcyon_ ([email protected]) to #eevblog
19:23:09 <Halcyon_> Grr
19:23:12 * T3sl4 hands Halcyon a towel
19:23:21 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) EOF from client
19:23:23 <Halcyon_> This is why we need Fibre
19:23:28 Nick: Halcyon_ is now known as Halcyon
19:23:31 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
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19:23:49 <Halcyon> Copper lines don't like lightning
19:23:53 <Halcyon> They get cranky
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19:45:06 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) EOF from client
19:46:09 <Halcyon_> I fucking give up
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22:39:25 <steve30> hi
22:58:52 <T3sl4> https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1454190385190907912
23:32:52 Join: watcher ([email protected]) to #eevblog
23:33:05 <watcher> hi
23:41:28 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #eevblog
23:41:47 <T3sl4> mornin
23:41:58 <watcher> morning
23:48:29 <electrohead> mourning
23:52:19 Quit: watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
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