// #eevblog — 2021-06-12
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20:30:13 Topic Is: Official IRC channel of the EEVblog - www.eevblog.tv
20:30:13 Set By: (ChanOP) on: Wed May 05 05:42:37 2021
20:30:13 <Lemon> ho yes a 3d printer, thats on my list too !
20:30:13 <Lemon> but not now
20:30:13 <Lemon> I need to transfer my lab to my flat first
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> i have mine since now 5 years
20:30:13 <Lemon> yeah ? you like it ?
20:30:13 <Lemon> or you'd change something ?
20:30:13 <Lemon> I see the laser resin type is getting better and cheaper
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/roehren-oszillographen-oszilloskoproehre-elektronikroehren/1668022368-168-7654
20:30:13 <EEVBot> [Title] - Error Page
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> i mostly like that printer and i would change not much, except that i need a flat printbaed, was never truly flat to begin
20:30:13 <Lemon> ha yes, many people use a glass plate
20:30:13 <Lemon> most of my friends did that
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> perhapy id i find one for less than something 300€ i would even buy a second one, this time a very small precision one like with less than 0,3mm nozzle size, that could print gears with module 0,5 or other small halfway precision parts
20:30:13 <Lemon> they went to local hardware store and bought a glass plate to dimensions
20:30:13 <Lemon> ha, you sent me a tube :>
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> for printing in ABS the best printbed is metal plus a lightly sanded FR4 board, the glass seems to be best for PLA
20:30:13 <Lemon> for abs you also need it to be closed afaik
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> hmm? i linked to the tubes im considering to pick up when i go to the town
20:30:13 <Lemon> to keep th e heat
20:30:13 <Lemon> ha ok !
20:30:13 <Lemon> I thought you wanted to link the printer
20:30:13 <Lemon> tubes are quite a mysterious thing for me
20:30:13 <Lemon> as im young (28)
20:30:13 <Lemon> but they are superb
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> oh, upto about 5 to 8cm side length, or perhaps more, ABS can be done well with only a simple wind shield, im doing it all the years
20:30:13 <Lemon> I saw the collection of ysjoelfir, really neat
20:30:13 <Lemon> I liked his big caps one too :>
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> ah i have not yet settled for a printer...
20:30:13 <Lemon> yeah ?
20:30:13 <Lemon> interesting
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> a CRT is a really simple thing if you get the basics
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> think about the electron gun like someone hoilding a water hose, and "painting" with the water beam onto a dry brick wall :)
20:30:13 <coppice> a colour CRT is an amazingly complex thing for the price
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> oh yes, there is really magical cleverness in manufacturing involved, i do know much
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> was mayself a TV service technican in my past decades
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> its also magic, how they made in the past tubes like https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU5OFgxMTk4/z/sdkAAOSwH8VgKYM~/$_59.JPG
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> where the cone was first sprayed with carbon all around, and then the spiral scraped out to be a high voltage resistor (and even consistent in priduction)
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> access was through the small end, the large end was sealed to the screen right in the beginning
20:30:13 <Lemon> its incredible
20:30:13 <Lemon> I wish I was born in this era, to start electronics while it evolves
20:30:13 <Lemon> its not the same nowadays, especially on the hobby side
20:30:13 <Lemon> sure, you have powerful uCs
20:30:13 <Lemon> but its not the same to me
20:30:13 <Lemon> which side are you on, quality tools for life, or cheap that you can abuse/replace often ?
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> i fully understand uCs on the gate level... but programming languages like the C or all whats fancy today are alien to my brain
20:30:13 <Lemon> ho wow
20:30:13 <Lemon> thats already a big thing to say ! I want to learn that
20:30:13 <Lemon> hence why I was playing with TTL
20:30:13 <Lemon> I will learn RTL as you mentionned
20:30:13 <Kuschelpony> oh i do have a use for all parts of the specturm, some basic tools in very good quality for life, preferably already secondhand for less money, but also less expensive tools that are good enough for a limited amount of specific tasks
20:30:39 <Kuschelpony> well i am happy to teach you RTL and DTL, but i feel TTL gets too confusing without good knowledge of analog wizardry :) but perhaps you learn CMOs after you have your DTL working and understanding
20:30:48 <Lemon> yeah I guess im on the same side
20:30:54 <Lemon> yeah ? RTL is easier ?
20:31:29 <Kuschelpony> i have to say, its perhaps even better than you missed the trickery circuits of the 60s and 70s which worked only when you exactly understood the details
20:31:48 <Kuschelpony> RTL is the most easy, DTL not much more complex but already much better performing
20:34:42 <Kuschelpony> you can think of DTL as an simple extension of RTL where currents are arranged that diodes switch faster than saturated transistors
20:34:53 <Lemon> hmmm ok
20:35:06 <Lemon> do you know a good website that list diagrams for basic RTL gates ?
20:37:16 <Kuschelpony> hmm, i have not yet searched past wikipedia that i linked yesterday, but might make some quick drawings later today when i go out in the garden (currently too sunny hot )
20:38:16 <Kuschelpony> btw: https://www.welt-der-alten-radios.de/ausstellung-messen-1977-322.html i recenbtly salvaged that scope from a dumpster, luckily only plastic parts damaged, the only fault were bad solder joints and dirty contacts
20:38:18 <EEVBot> [Title] - Philips PM3212 1977 | Messen (1977)
20:38:36 <Kuschelpony> that one can also be used with an 24V battery pack
20:40:01 <Lemon> ho thats neat !
20:40:39 <Lemon> scope wise im stuffed, I have a tds 540 in pristine shape (500Mhz, 1Gs/s, 4 channels) and a tek 2245A also in super nice shape (100Mhz, 2 channels + 2 limited ones)
20:40:54 <Kuschelpony> hihi, that one is my 4,5th one
20:40:54 <Lemon> and a THS710A from my dear father that I need to hack, now that I learnt its possible
20:41:11 <Kuschelpony> my main one is a grundig MO50 that already had timebase automatic
20:41:35 <Kuschelpony> plus an ancient philis one with long afterglow tube, and a east german portable one
20:41:46 <Lemon> pretty nice ! which model of portable ?
20:42:17 <Lemon> I learnt that I can turn my THS710A (60Mhz, 250Ms/s) into a 720P (100Mhz, 500Ms/s + harmonic and power analysis tool)
20:42:24 <Lemon> with just the removal of 3 resistors !
20:42:35 <Lemon> so I will do that and buy it a new battery, before it costed 120+ euros for one
20:42:38 <Kuschelpony> they had been sold under various names like Voltcraft, have to look which was the original name from RFT
20:42:41 <Lemon> now theres good ones at 38 on ebay
20:42:46 <Kuschelpony> oh nice
20:42:59 <Lemon> I think its even possible to have the sampling rate of the 730 (1GS/s)
20:43:03 <Lemon> but I have to investigate
20:43:06 <Lemon> that would be insane
20:43:16 <Lemon> its a nice device and its sentimental to me
20:43:22 <Kuschelpony> understood
20:43:25 <Lemon> as I saw my father using it for so long
20:43:40 <Kuschelpony> im still living in the analog world :)
20:43:51 <Lemon> it got its advantages !
20:43:54 <Lemon> thats why I wanted both
20:44:01 <Kuschelpony> my father was a woodworker, im the only one in family who knows about electronics
20:44:04 <Lemon> I like multiple capabilities
20:44:09 <Lemon> ho neat !
20:44:22 <Lemon> woodworking is an area that is also super nice
20:45:25 <Kuschelpony> yeah, i diod learn some stuff from him
20:46:05 <Lemon> I have a growing passion for tools
20:46:09 <Lemon> thats really bad
20:46:11 <Lemon> x)
20:46:33 <Kuschelpony> hmm, what bad?
20:48:03 <Lemon> well, it gets expensive :P
20:48:10 <Lemon> now im eyeing lindstrom stuff !
20:48:23 <Lemon> engineer too, its on the cheaper side but I heard good thing on them
20:49:55 <Lemon> and knipex, and wiha, and and and
20:50:09 <Lemon> I like my knipex tools, the wiha I just got in mail is my first one
20:50:10 <Kuschelpony> yep, fully understood
20:50:45 <Lemon> overall, it feels quite good, but I think its a tad, tinnnnnny little bit under knipex, in build quality
20:50:54 <Lemon> but it feels good, especially for 17 euros
20:51:00 <Lemon> https://www.distrelec.be/fr/pince-coupante-de-cote-flush-petit-biseau-110mm-lindstrom-8141/p/18045486
20:51:07 <Lemon> people are saying really good things on this one
20:51:13 <Kuschelpony> i go well with my Knipex sidecutter, a set of no-name but surprisingly good other pliers, and recently considering a automatic wire stripper (cant remember the brand this moment, have the catalogue at work)
20:51:41 <Kuschelpony> also the set of precision screwdrivers from Proxxon
20:51:50 <Lemon> ho man, you should get that knipex wire stripper I got recently, its super good
20:52:01 <Lemon> not really automatic tho, you can adjust the depth of cut
20:52:07 <Lemon> proxxon ? I will look into it
20:52:21 <Lemon> I wanted one that you can adjust, because sometimes it eats through thin conductors
20:52:28 <Lemon> so with this one you can fine tune it to perfection
20:52:44 <Lemon> https://www.amazon.fr/Knipex-12-40-200-auto-ajustable/dp/B000R895YM/ref=sr_1_10?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=knipex+wire+stripper&qid=1623495157&s=hi&sr=1-10
20:52:44 <EEVBot> [Title] -
20:52:58 <Lemon> I bought it new in box for 35 euros, from a peep on local website
20:53:49 <Lemon> for screwdrivers I have both ifixkits, that are really nice, but in the long run I want to build kits of screwdrivers because of the depth limitation of ifixit ones
20:53:59 <Lemon> you cant really go in thin, really deep holes
20:54:55 <Kuschelpony> https://www.obi.de/zubehoer-fuer-miniaturwerkzeuge/proxxon-schraubendreher-satz-micro-driver-15-stueck-im-halter/p/1570415
20:54:57 <EEVBot> [Title] - Proxxon Schraubendreher-Satz Micro-Driver 15 Stück im Halter kaufen bei OBI
20:55:08 <Kuschelpony> understood
20:55:23 <Kuschelpony> if i practice welding again, i will try to make some long and super long ones
20:56:03 <Lemon> hmmm 26 euros for 15, thats quite cheap
20:56:17 <Kuschelpony> and they last well since years
20:56:18 <Lemon> I always fear of getting too cheap ones that ends up dull, or bad
20:56:22 <Lemon> yeah ?
20:56:50 <Lemon> I was tempted by the wera small drivers kit, theres like 26 but for 100 euros or so
20:56:51 <Kuschelpony> puh... i consider usually the low-middle end, as "oppsies" happen anyway so i loose not SO much compared to the expensive high end ones
20:57:22 <Lemon> well as long as you dont pry with them, or use the wrong one with the wrong screw, they last a long time if they are sturdy
20:57:29 <Kuschelpony> the only really expensive screwdriver i have is a wiha for philips screws, with a diamond coated blade to "bite" into damaged screws
20:57:39 <Lemon> I have a few old bosch from my father, they saw decades of abuse and they are perfect, sadly theres only 2-3 of them
20:57:46 <Lemon> ho wow !
20:57:53 <Lemon> what is the model ? im interested to see it
20:57:55 <Lemon> if you know it ofc
20:58:08 <Kuschelpony> im need to look, its many years old
20:59:12 <Lemon> theres also tweezers
20:59:22 <Lemon> im hearing various advices on them
20:59:37 <Lemon> some people say that expensive ones aint worth it, chinese works as good
20:59:42 <Lemon> others say the very opposite
21:00:00 <Lemon> I recently received 4 from aliexpress, super fine ones, and they are really good for 2-3 euros a piece
21:00:08 <Lemon> but not the best for what I want to do
21:00:21 <Lemon> I need some that are a bit thicker, to hold components/wire for example
21:00:28 <Lemon> those are nice but for tiny smd stuff
21:00:40 <Lemon> 0.1mm tips, they got
21:01:22 <Kuschelpony> i have to correct, it was Wera, not Wiha, and they are non longer in production since two decades
21:01:23 <Kuschelpony> https://www.werkzeug-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=1262
21:01:26 <EEVBot> [Title] - WERKZEUG-FORUM.DE - Information
21:02:46 <Lemon> ha ok !
21:02:57 <Lemon> I also heard that those type of cutters https://schmitz-zangen.de/collections/vornschneider/products/vornschneider-125mm-breiter-kopf-mit-feiner-schneid-wate-3602hs22
21:02:58 <EEVBot> [Title] - Vornschneider 125mm breiter Kopf, mit feiner Schneid-Wate 3602HS22
21:03:02 <Lemon> induce less stress on components
21:03:13 <Lemon> no idea if thats true, or really a thing that matters
21:03:21 <Lemon> but I want a similar pair for some situations
21:04:39 <Kuschelpony> hmm, i think the stress level much more depends on the user of the cutter than the taype of the cutter :)
21:05:14 <Lemon> yes, me too lol
21:05:22 <Kuschelpony> myself i have to honestly say i went to SMD as far as i can as i am too lazy to drill holes, cut and bend wires to make them fit
21:05:23 <Lemon> I tend to be over careful on everything
21:05:29 <Lemon> it was bothering my father very muhc
21:05:38 <Lemon> he was on the rougher side with electronics
21:05:43 <Kuschelpony> oh ok
21:06:06 <Lemon> well, I think if I have to order a pcb and build a final product, I will also go smd
21:06:15 <Lemon> but for prototyping, through hole is a must
21:06:51 <Kuschelpony> disagree!
21:07:46 <Kuschelpony> i do all prototyping exclusively in SMD on perfboard, is you halv the rings a SO body fits just right, and a SOT23 transistor or diode turned 45° also fits perfectly in a square of pads
21:08:21 <Kuschelpony> i even fit THT components as huge SMD ones fro mthe copepr layer
21:08:49 <Kuschelpony> but well everyone has different tastest
21:09:28 <Lemon> yeah but look, if you want to test something, its soldered, and its not that good to desolder it a couple times
21:09:33 <Lemon> thats what I like with breadboards
21:09:42 <Lemon> I can fit sometihng, take it out, try something else etc
21:09:46 <Lemon> without damaging the component
21:11:20 <Kuschelpony> hmm, when i build circuits, i have worked out almost everything on paper and brain before so i am 98% certain it will work and i just need to measure details for optimization
21:11:56 <Kuschelpony> like for example using a capacitor decade to see which value is best for a loop stabilization
21:12:22 <Lemon> yeah im not on that level yet :P
21:12:28 <Lemon> I need to build a capacitor decade
21:12:31 <Kuschelpony> perhaps im already enough decades into that stuff that i do non longer need to try and desolder and resolder so often
21:12:36 <Lemon> I have one with 3 decades tho
21:12:41 <Lemon> bought from our dear Ysjoelfir
21:13:22 <Kuschelpony> mie is so far a large switch box in E6 steps, i have not yet realized my dream of an mechanical switchwork where i could select all values over all decades with rotating one knob
21:13:28 <Kuschelpony> ah great
21:14:55 <Lemon> ho nice ! the resistor one I did is with thumbwheel switches, USSR surplus, silver plated please ! :P
21:15:18 <Kuschelpony> thats already too fancy and more precision than i feel comfortable with
21:16:52 <Lemon> ho well it was decently priced !
21:17:00 <Lemon> much much cheaper than new omrons, or cherry for example
21:17:14 <Lemon> I forgot but it was like 5 euros a switch maybe ?
21:18:14 <Kuschelpony> my capacitor box is just two rows of toggle switches
21:18:38 <Kuschelpony> i never needed one for resistors so far
21:19:02 <Kuschelpony> but everyone has different style and habits
21:19:55 <Lemon> ho the resistor box was more because I wanted one
21:20:01 <Lemon> and to build it myself
21:20:13 <Lemon> but it got its uses sometimes
21:20:24 <Lemon> and it makes me happy to use my own tool
21:21:51 <Kuschelpony> sure, thats what i also say with my stuff
21:22:13 <Kuschelpony> currently making speaker measurements again and considering a dedicated cobntrol box
21:22:42 <Lemon> ho yes you told me ! you found the microphone you wanted ? I forgot but I think you said that
21:22:53 <Kuschelpony> and around some circles, considering to wind transformers and build one more switchmode DCDC converter again for beeing able to run all on an laptop "brick" for supply
21:22:57 <Lemon> also, this type of kit is tempting as bits are really long https://www.contorion.fr/outillage-manuel/jeu-d-embouts-wera-avec-manche-universel-33-pcs-21044309
21:23:01 <EEVBot> [Title] -
21:24:25 <Kuschelpony> yep
21:24:51 <Lemon> would you use that over standalone drivers ?
21:25:08 <Lemon> because theres the price, and size issue, it takes space
21:25:10 <Lemon> not those kits
21:25:26 <Kuschelpony> i think both have their place, so far i am ok with the set of standalone drivers
21:25:41 <Kuschelpony> no inclination to buy more tools soon
21:26:45 <Kuschelpony> to be honest, im currently mostly working on recycled junk parts, saving my money for weekend trips and holidays, just beeing bitter how my local buddies are all "couch potato" or geek types that dont want to go out
21:27:40 <Lemon> ha yes, im on the side of your friends it seems haha
21:27:47 <Lemon> but I got agoraphobia, also
21:27:51 <Lemon> its getting better tho
21:28:02 <Lemon> before it was the opposite
21:28:17 <Lemon> I couldnt stand being in house for more than a few hours
21:28:59 <Kuschelpony> lets say my life is a very special mix of beeing social phobic and easily overloaded, with extrovert/exhibitionis & adventurer
21:29:37 <Kuschelpony> i am basically forced to be either in the house or out where i can go to alone, but shit miss things like swimming at a beach
21:29:49 <Kuschelpony> so i went back to fill my time with electronics in winter
21:30:50 <Lemon> I see
21:35:49 <Kuschelpony> soo, i will slowly disappear for a while, trying to sit in the garden and spent my< time winding transformers
21:37:47 <Kuschelpony> lool: https://gizmodo.com/pear-cable-chickens-out-of-1-000-000-challenge-we-sea-315250
21:37:48 <EEVBot> [Title] - Pear Cable Chickens Out of $1,000,000 Challenge, We Search For Answers
21:38:01 <Kuschelpony> ok a few minutes later...
21:40:29 <Lemon> ho yeah I will soon take a nap
21:40:36 <Lemon> also, im reading really good things on those https://www.amazon.fr/Wera-05105622001-tournevis-Kraftform-Lasertip/dp/B000297UEI/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=wera%2Bkit%2Btournevis&qid=1623497864&sr=8-5&th=1
21:40:37 <EEVBot> [Title] -
21:40:42 <Lemon> the tip is special
21:41:06 <Lemon> haaaa high end audio cables
21:41:14 <Lemon> one of the biggest joke known to mankind
21:42:27 <Kuschelpony> good that you said 2one of the biggest" becvause i know bigger ones
21:42:36 <Ampera> Good morning
21:42:45 <Kuschelpony> Helo Ampera as well
21:43:15 <Kuschelpony> soo now i leave to the garden, after a good laugh about that cable story
21:43:24 <Ampera> have fun gardening
21:43:49 <Ampera> plant a Lemon tree for us
21:44:02 <Kuschelpony> Oh you missed, i am not going to gardening, but to enjoy how the sun has a bit set and i try to wind a few transformers in the fresh air
21:44:18 <Kuschelpony> too hot in the house for anything
21:44:46 <Ampera> cool day today, 59 degrees
21:46:06 <Kuschelpony> 27°C inside and 28°C but now some little breeze outside
21:46:12 <Kuschelpony> see you back later
21:46:45 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
23:26:04 <electrohead> o/
23:26:22 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:26:39 * Ampera hugs electrohead and Kuschelpony
23:26:43 <Ampera> how are the two of you doing?
23:26:59 <Kuschelpony> thanks
23:27:19 <Kuschelpony> im ok and alive, tried to spent time in the garden but it started to rain of course
23:27:34 <Ampera> It's looking to be a rainy day here too
23:27:42 <Kuschelpony> at least i wound two toroids, did not had enough wire for the third
23:27:50 <electrohead> it's not raining here right now, so yay
23:27:56 <Kuschelpony> hot and damp here since days
23:28:43 * electrohead offers coffee
23:29:16 <Kuschelpony> thankls but its already too late for coffee today afternoon or my saleep is even worse than it already is
23:29:34 <Kuschelpony> wish i could share my fresh fruit joghurt with you right now
23:30:17 <electrohead> homemade?
23:30:52 <Kuschelpony> half... bought natural joghurt and mix it with lots fresh fruits myself, zero added sugar
23:31:36 <electrohead> nice
23:32:00 <electrohead> I have these yogurts I got at the store, on top they have M&M's and some oreo like cookie crushed up
23:32:02 <electrohead> it's really good
23:33:09 <Kuschelpony> i still try to loose weight and get off sugar as far as possible, but got a fallback the past weeks
23:36:38 <electrohead> lol
23:36:51 * electrohead pokes his small beer belly
23:38:26 <Ampera> I have a bit of a belly too (not that bad, I'm about 175lbs 5'8")
23:39:11 <Ampera> I pretty much don't drink soda, but my problem is I tend to keep snacking
23:39:22 <Ampera> especially noodles, because I can make them so easily in the microwave, and I have so many of them
23:41:02 <Kuschelpony> hihi
23:41:15 <Ampera> ihih
23:41:57 <Kuschelpony> and i just got confirmation again why i hate telephone calls all the decades, its good to be able to point someone to an e-mail from two weeks ago
23:42:41 <electrohead> https://psychoslinux.gitlab.io/DOS/INDEX.HTM
23:42:42 <EEVBot> [Title] - PsychDOS
23:43:11 <Ampera> that text is hard to read
23:43:25 <Ampera> the phosphor glow effect is taxing on the eyes :P
23:43:45 <electrohead> just a little bit >.<
23:43:51 <electrohead> yeah my eyes hurt now
23:45:28 <electrohead> https://theouterlinux.gitlab.io/disclaimer_mobile.html
23:45:30 <EEVBot> [Title] - Disclaimer
23:45:31 <electrohead> lol!
23:47:16 <Ampera> Now I like that, sort of a parallax effect
23:49:05 <electrohead> someone posted that in the comments on hackernews, and another person mentioned to put the text through a text to speech engine
23:49:14 <electrohead> I just may do that, for shits and giggles
23:51:28 <electrohead> heh, it's going through espeak-ng
23:53:00 <EEVBot> [Twitter] - eevblog - RT @ReutersScience: Want to bid for a seat on a spaceship ride with Jeff Bezos? You'll need to be quick - and you'll probably need more tha…
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