// #eevblog — 2019-08-02
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02:37:46 Join: guardeiro ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:41:50 Quit: guardeiro ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:51:58 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:52:28 <Nothing\> weird, i just tried to join the channel before the MOTD came up in my status window and it told me i need a registered name to join, but as soon as the MOTD was done, it let me join as normal
02:52:53 <Nothing\> i wonder if that's because user modes don't get set before the MOTD or something, although the registered name thing is a channel mode on most IRCDs isn't it
02:54:25 <K> who said that you need a registered name? irc server or your client?
02:54:36 <Nothing\> i assume it was the server
02:54:53 <Nothing\> but like i said it was just for a short moment before the MOTD, i was being impatient
02:55:33 <K> hm, it could be
02:55:35 <Nothing\> * You have not registered
02:55:35 <Nothing\> * *** Ident request timed out.
02:55:43 <Nothing\> then the MOTD proceeds after that
02:55:55 <K> maybe client does not send whatever it needs before reciveing motd
02:56:13 <Nothing\> maybe it was just a message telling me i haven't registered this name and it happened to appear right at the moment i tried to join, but then the join failed so there's still that
02:56:23 <Nothing\> yeah that's what i figure, some mode wasn't set or something
02:56:48 <Nothing\> oh yeah, i can see further down, the user modes get set after the MOTD, that's probably it
02:57:23 <K> mystery solved!
02:57:58 <Nothing\> anyways, i happened to find some of my dad's old stuff from when he was in engineering, a book of various tables for log, sin, roots, etc, a shorthand study book which was actually my mom's, a couple of slide rules which i can't make heads or tails of even with a manual
02:58:37 <Nothing\> i could get up to dividing and multiplying and roots on the slide rule, but when it came to trig stuff the scales they referred to just weren't on it that i could see
02:59:32 <Nothing\> lol it even has a calendar on it but unfortunately it only goes up to 1982
03:00:23 <Nothing\> it's amazing really when you look at it that they're able to line up all of the scales exactly right so they all start at the same point, but the answers line up perfectly
03:01:04 <Nothing\> i wonder what sort of reference standard they used for it, actually i always wondered that for rulers, too like the ruler can only be as accurate as the reference they use, so who's to say one company uses a more accurate standard than the other
03:01:51 <Nothing\> i always hated using rulers anyways, the edge on it's too thick and the paralax always causes errors of +/- 1 or 2mm
04:00:51 Join: keepitreel ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:16:33 Quit: keepitreel ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
04:22:24 <Nothing\> yay i finally managed to, at least in simulation, extract a harmonic frequency from a square wave without too much distortion
04:23:19 <Nothing\> i'm just wondering irl how much things like the parasitic capacitance/inductance in a breadboard and ungodly series resistance of these axial lead inductors i have would affect such a circuit
04:24:06 <Nothing\> i feel like these inductors were purposely given a high series resistance, i measured it at almost 50 ohms
04:38:48 <Ampera> hi Nothing\
04:38:49 <Ampera> now do
04:38:51 <Ampera> *how
04:40:41 <Nothing\> oh hey Ampera i'm doing pretty good, how about you?
04:40:49 <Ampera> PXE
04:40:53 <Ampera> that's how I'm doing
04:42:30 <Nothing\> do what?
04:42:35 <Ampera> PXE
04:42:39 <Ampera> Netboot
04:43:01 <Nothing\> actually, tbh i'm a bit anxious but that's cuz i ran into an old friend and we're talking about some shit from the past we went through, so the old memories are making me feel really anxious
04:43:08 <Nothing\> hrm i'm still not sure i follow
04:43:49 <Ampera> I'm setting up my server to operate as a PXE netboot server
04:44:03 <Nothing\> ah i see, i dunno what that is but neat lol
04:44:05 <Ampera> that way any wired computer on the network can boot straight from that server without even needing a hard drive
04:44:16 <Nothing\> oh wow that IS neat
04:44:23 <Nothing\> ah shit i just realized i have to see my shrink in like an hour
04:44:34 <Nothing\> i guess if there's any time to be anxious, now would be the best
04:44:57 <Ampera> So I can put install images and diagnostic tools, partitioners, etc on there
04:45:10 <Ampera> I think even the Raspberry Pi can do netboot
04:45:37 <Ampera> The one and only shrink I ever went to is now currently refusing to give my parents the information they need in order to make an insurance claim.
04:45:44 <Ampera> For whatever reason
04:46:01 <Nothing\> and you just do that over what? ethernet?
04:46:06 <Ampera> Yep.
04:46:10 <Nothing\> gigabit?
04:46:13 <Ampera> Sure
04:46:20 <Nothing\> that's pretty cool
04:46:32 <Ampera> I can do it using any NIC that has a PXE boot ROM
04:46:35 <Ampera> VMs too
04:46:45 <Nothing\> it's crazy though, it just hit me that even network speeds these days are probably way faster than bus speeds even were back say, 20 or 30 years ago
04:46:48 <Ampera> That way I no longer have to use USB sticks to boot stuff
04:47:08 <Ampera> Well PCI is 133mbps iirc
04:47:16 <Nothing\> oh wow, that's it?
04:47:27 <Ampera> (32x33mhz)
04:47:34 <Nothing\> well i guess pci-e has taken over that standard hasn't it? or is pci-e just for graphics adapters?
04:47:45 <Ampera> PCIe is use for everything now.
04:47:51 <Nothing\> i figured that
04:47:52 <Ampera> PCI is very much legacy, and not included on the most modern boards.
04:48:10 <Nothing\> one interesting thing i learned about PCI connectors is that every other pin is apparently a ground pin
04:48:11 <Ampera> Idk if you know what VLB is, but it's *technically* faster than PCI
04:48:25 <Nothing\> i forget why they do that but i assume it has something to do with noise or some kind of interference
04:48:32 <Nothing\> ah no i've never heard of VLB
04:48:34 <Ampera> It can be faster or slower, as it's basically just the 486 bus, but on my 486, it's 32bitx40Mhz
04:48:48 <Ampera> You know what ISA is right?
04:48:50 <Nothing\> heh i actually found a voodoo banshee video card in my old stuff the other day
04:48:59 <Nothing\> oh yeah i've heard of ISA, only a vague idea of what it is though
04:48:59 <Ampera> oh man I'd love one of those
04:49:07 <Ampera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VESA_Local_Bus#/media/File:Vlb.jpg
04:49:10 <Ampera> Well that's VLB
04:49:21 <Ampera> It's basically what looks like 16-bit ISA slot next to a PCI slot
04:49:26 <Ampera> the cards are massive
04:49:38 <Nothing\> oh okay, i think i've seen those connectors on boards before
04:49:44 <Nothing\> unless it was an isa
04:50:14 <Nothing\> i remember on older boards there was always another type of connector next to pci that i never used
04:50:15 <Ampera> I have one of those boards.
04:50:18 <Ampera> AGP
04:50:30 <Ampera> Well, either ISA or AGP
04:50:47 <Ampera> ISA are big (usually black) 8 or 16 bit thick pitch edge connectors
04:51:12 <Nothing\> heh i found my old athlon II cpu as well, i forget what the speed was i think it was 1600mhz, but because of the front side bus speed on my board, i could only run it at 1050mhz, which wasn't much improvement from the 900mhz thunderbird i used before that
04:51:33 <Nothing\> it's funny though cuz it's clearly the first CPU i ever installed on account of how much thermal paste i slathered on it
04:52:00 <Ampera> My first CPU (that I bought) was an FM1 A4 chip (I forget which)
04:53:17 <Nothing\> the thunderbird was mine, my brother gave me a computer as a wedding present, had the 900mhz amd thunderbird, the voodoobanshee and i have no idea how much ram, i wanna say 256mb but that was probably a lot back then
04:53:26 <Nothing\> woulda been from right around the turn of the century
04:53:50 <Nothing\> i remember trying to play half life 2 on it and it only ran at maybe 10-12fps, slowing to 7fps during heavy action
04:54:54 <Ampera> lol
04:55:06 <Ampera> That's similar to my Pentium 3 machine
04:55:14 <Nothing\> hrm i can't find the picture i took of the solder paste, but i did find this picture
04:55:15 <Nothing\> https://i.imgur.com/iYzfMwk.jpg
04:55:28 <Nothing\> i dunno about you, but those don't look apetizing at all, they look like they're made of playdough
04:55:30 <Ampera> 450Mhz, 384MB RAM, GeForce 2MX
04:55:41 <Ampera> Er yeah
04:55:48 <Nothing\> it reminds me of that playdough donut maggie made for homer in the episode where he tries to get up to 300lbs
04:55:49 <Ampera> that looks like it would give you the rainbow shits
04:56:17 <Nothing\> heh nice, yeah i had other computers before that but they were my parents so technically they weren't really mine
04:56:37 <Nothing\> but if you go by that, my first standard desktop style computer was an ibm ps/1
04:56:55 <Ampera> the funny thing is that's what one of my first PCs were
04:56:58 <Nothing\> though i had stuff like an adam and c64 before that, but i don't really consider them desktops in the same way
04:57:03 <Ampera> My first PC was a Commodore 64, though it was my dad's
04:57:10 <Nothing\> yup, same
04:57:17 <Ampera> however my neighbor gave me a PS/1 2133 with an SX-25 in it
04:57:26 <Nothing\> i couldn't use it for the life of me though, i always had to get my brother to load games for me
04:57:29 <Ampera> I am very very sad that I killed that machine by being stupid
04:57:33 <Nothing\> i could scarcely read back then
04:57:37 <Nothing\> aww what'd you do?
04:57:49 <Ampera> Well I was around 8-10, so keep that in mind
04:57:57 <Ampera> but I decided to take a screwdriver and start poking at shit
04:57:57 <Nothing\> of course
04:58:00 <Ampera> power to ground
04:58:01 <Ampera> pop
04:58:03 <Nothing\> ahh lol
04:58:03 <Ampera> no more video card
04:58:36 <Nothing\> that's okay about the same age, one day i noticed my brother's car had a layer of ice covering the hood, so i decided to scrape the ice off... with a screwdriver
04:58:45 <Nothing\> scratched the everliving hell out of the paint
04:59:19 <Nothing\> kids do dumb things, but i figure as long as you learn something from it it wasn't in vain
04:59:43 <Nothing\> ffs, my ecig's empty AGAIN this is getting ridiculous
04:59:58 <Nothing\> i have to refill this thing like 3 or 4 times a day, plus i have a second one i'm refilling at least once a day
05:00:33 <Nothing\> wouldn't be such an issue but it's a pain to refill, half the time when i turn the tank upside down, ejuice will start dripping out of the coil, not to mention the coil gets flooded
05:01:01 <Nothing\> anywho i should probably start getting ready for my appointment
05:01:07 <Nothing\> was good talking with you, man
05:01:10 <Ampera> you too
05:01:11 <Nothing\> take care :)
05:01:15 <Ampera> have fun being shrunk :P
05:01:19 <Ampera> ciao
09:22:48 Nick: T3sl41 is now known as T3sl4
10:29:06 <Halcyon> Ampera \o/
10:29:19 <Ampera> hi Halcyon
10:29:53 <Halcyon> How are you?
10:30:09 <Ampera> PXE
10:30:49 <Ampera> that's how I am
10:30:55 <Halcyon> You just woke up?
10:30:58 <Ampera> no
10:31:03 <Ampera> it's 20:30
10:31:19 <Halcyon> *shrug*
10:31:33 <steve30> hi
10:31:39 <Halcyon> Hey Steve
10:31:49 <Ampera> I'm trying to get a PXE compatible EFI chainloader working
10:32:15 <Ampera> syslinux/pxelinux works great for legacy/BIOS PXE, but it can't chainload EFI. GRUB can chainload EFI, but it's got real shit documentation
10:32:41 <Ampera> because apparently the idea of having a simple menu to choose boot EFI images over PXE is too insane to have been given much attention.
10:34:52 <Halcyon> Why don't you just use BIOS?
10:36:58 <Ampera> because I want to use EFI and BIOS
10:37:32 <Ampera> some OSes will get cranky if you try to install an EFI bootloader when you boot via BIOS
10:38:01 <Ampera> there are also some small number of systems (VMs mainly) that have EFI support without CSM
10:38:09 <Halcyon> Yeh I get that, but why use EFI at all?
10:38:47 <Ampera> more modern
10:38:56 <Ampera> tends to support things that BIOS can't
10:38:56 <Halcyon> Yehhhh but what else?
10:39:03 <Halcyon> Like?
10:39:06 <DHess_US> Ok, now I know this is the Matrix. I lost a 1/2" socket a few weeks ago but only realized it today. And I found it within an hour.
10:39:26 <Ampera> GPT?
10:39:36 <Halcyon> DHess_US, sorry about that, that was a programming error, my bad :P
10:39:42 <Ampera> being able to boot a file instead of a drive
10:40:00 <Ampera> having different bootloaders with different features doing different things
10:40:18 <Halcyon> It sounds more complicated than it needs to be.
10:40:26 <Halcyon> I still dont use EFI on modern hardware
10:40:30 <DHess_US> Too late now. I have the 1/2 socket of power so you obay me now.
10:40:33 <Halcyon> I have no need
10:40:35 <Ampera> I use (U)EFI on any and all devices that support it
10:40:43 <Halcyon> Be nice DHess_US or I'll take it away again :P
10:40:45 <Ampera> simply because it's easier to deal with on another matter
10:40:56 <Halcyon> Go open your toolbox and check to see if it's still there now :P
10:41:19 <DHess_US> I don't have to. It's sitting here in front of me and I put a video camera on it. If you take it, then everybody will know.
10:41:26 <DHess_US> Dance monkey boy!
10:41:30 <Halcyon> :P
10:42:11 <Halcyon> I'm going to Canberra today to pick up a pallet of old Cisco gear
10:42:16 <Halcyon> Getting it for free
10:43:31 <DHess_US> Nice. I had a friend at Intel's server division send me a box of free stuff that they didn't need anymore.
10:43:58 <DHess_US> 24 port 10/100 switch, dual Xeon III 900, Dual P2 600, a kvm for it all
10:44:06 <Ampera> cor
10:44:11 <Halcyon> Oh sweet
10:44:18 <DHess_US> Plus it included SCSI controllers and 10k drives
10:44:21 * steve30 purrs at Halcyon
10:44:31 <DHess_US> Of course this was back when this stuff was almost current.
10:44:33 <Halcyon> DHess_US, if you can get your hands on any Pentium Pro CPU's or Boards, I would be *very* interested
10:44:35 <Ampera> I need some friends who think that 10GbE SFP+ gear is obsolete and in need of disposal :P
10:44:44 <Halcyon> I haven't played with one of those since the 1990's and haven't seen one since
10:44:57 <DHess_US> Man, Pentium Pros were obsolete back in 2000
10:45:04 <Ampera> Halcyon, they're cheap enough, spend 100 bucks and you can get a VS440FX and PPro 200Mhz on ebay
10:45:09 <DHess_US> I had a bunch pass through my hands about then.
10:45:16 <Halcyon> Really, I should look
10:45:23 <DHess_US> Why do you want a Pentium Pro?
10:45:45 <Halcyon> Nostalgia
10:45:48 <Halcyon> Plus they are cool
10:45:49 <DHess_US> Have some legacy software which requires it?
10:45:57 <Halcyon> Nah, not at all
10:46:17 <Halcyon> I'm in the process of turning my spare room into an old computer playground
10:46:22 <DHess_US> There is a lot of legacy software out there making a big market for hardare like that.
10:47:01 <Halcyon> I probably have around 15 vintage computers of various types
10:47:17 <DHess_US> My oldest working system might be that dual P2 600 that I have. It's an Intel OR840 motherboard so RAMBUS and hardware random number generator in the chipset.
10:47:21 <Halcyon> I think the oldest I have is probably the Apple IIe
10:47:37 <Ampera> I have a Commodore 64, which isn't that old as far as PCs go
10:47:46 <Halcyon> No but still a classic
10:47:51 <DHess_US> It's what Intel intended to take over the workstation market but obviously that did not happen.
10:47:52 <Halcyon> They fetch for decent money
10:47:59 <Ampera> No they don't
10:48:05 <DHess_US> Eh, I have a C64 in the basement but I don't count it.
10:48:08 <Halcyon> They do in good condition
10:48:14 <Halcyon> Most of them are shit or broken
10:48:16 <Ampera> C64 was one of the best selling computers of all time, they're literally everywhere
10:48:25 <DHess_US> My backup box here on my desk is a 1.2GHz P3
10:48:26 <Ampera> maybe in the land down under, but there's thousands and thousands
10:48:29 <Halcyon> Then there are rarer variants
10:48:38 <Ampera> I also have a C128, which is a bit rare
10:48:39 <Ampera> r
10:50:00 <Halcyon> Cheapest PPro CPU (only) I can find is almost AUD$60
10:50:50 <DHess_US> I have a whole tray of P60s I think.
10:50:53 <Ampera> Keep looking, they're not too common, but not too sought after anyways
10:51:04 <DHess_US> P60s or P90s.
10:51:23 <Halcyon> They tend to mostly be listed for gold recovery
10:51:36 <Halcyon> chances are the pins are all bent and broken
10:51:59 <Ampera> I'm seeing boards and chips for 150-200 bucks, but that's right now prices
10:52:09 <Ampera> keep in mind, my dollars are worth more than your dollars
10:52:11 * T3sl4 replaces Ampera's boards with techs
10:52:13 <Halcyon> Can you give me an item number?
10:52:18 <Ampera> a wha?
10:52:22 <Halcyon> ebay item number
10:52:25 <Halcyon> So I can look it up
10:52:31 <Ampera> no I can't
10:52:45 <Halcyon> ?
10:52:50 <Ampera> I have no clue what that is
10:52:59 <Halcyon> Each listing has an item number on it
10:53:20 <Halcyon> Directly above the description
10:53:44 <Ampera> I can just give you the damn link then
10:53:49 <Halcyon> Fine
10:53:50 <Ampera> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-rare-Jetway-Pentium-Pro-Socket-8-motherboard-with-CPU-cooler-and-RAM/303176734549?hash=item4696bdd755:g:HagAAOSw3G1c9ZBq
10:53:59 <Ampera> This is one, need to know if this is a decent board
10:54:07 <Halcyon> The item number comes in handy as you can use the API to look up how many watchers it has
10:54:14 <Ampera> but that's like twice what I paid for mine, and I even got 3 cards with mine
10:54:26 <Ampera> You can see that on the site too
10:54:34 <Halcyon> Not always
10:54:41 <Halcyon> For example that listing has 3 watchers
10:55:51 <Ampera> Looks like a 440FX chipset
10:56:03 <Ampera> so if you want to waste 220 USD you could use that one
10:56:30 <Halcyon> Tempting, but I'll see what pops up
11:01:01 <Halcyon> It's depressing to see that $1 million dollars is "meh" when it comes to property in Sydney
11:01:26 <Halcyon> I mean it's good because I own property, the thing is, I don't plan on selling it
11:02:57 <Ampera> but you're not in Sydney
11:03:10 <Ampera> 1 million dollars is the equivalent of the value menu for real estate in any major city
11:04:13 <Halcyon> Im just outside of Sydney, our property market is actually doing better than most areas in Sydney
11:04:33 <Halcyon> People are realising they dont want to live in sardine cans
11:06:40 <Halcyon> Anyway I need to go get ready, I'll be back tomorrow afternoon
11:07:17 <DHess_US> Halcyon, mine are still in the shipping trays. They are in perfect condition.
11:07:48 <DHess_US> The shipping trays are purple or blue and stamped Intel.
11:07:56 <Ampera> Halcyon, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap4k_TzldeQ
12:11:49 <steve30> i think i should have another coffee
12:41:00 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
14:29:38 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Quit: <Baljem> steve30: by the way, I had the most bizarre dream the other day that someone came in here and seriously flipped their shit over your quit message and why aren't the ops /doing/ something about it
16:50:46 Join: guardeiro ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:26:35 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:28:45 Quit: guardeiro ([email protected]) EOF from client
19:04:32 Join: guardeiro ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
19:05:45 <guardeiro> hey has anyone used iCEcube2 from lattice?
19:07:22 <guardeiro> im getting an error, "No such feature exists", and changing the envoirmental variable is not helping
19:25:08 <K> fpgas do not come up here often, sorry
19:34:35 Join: DogWomble ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
20:14:25 Quit: guardeiro ([email protected]) EOF from client
22:37:06 <coppice_> FFFFFFFFF PPPPPPPP GGGGGGGGG AAAAAAAAA its fun to play with an FFFFFFFFF PPPPPPPP GGGGGGGGG AAAAAAAAA
22:50:13 <rust_collector> They have everything for you men to enjoy
23:02:51 <coppice_> Fairly Programmable Groups of Atoms
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