#eevblog - 2019-04-19 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2019-04-19

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« 2019-04-18 2019-04-20 »
01:16 <Lartza> Would it matter if the IP wasn't hidden?
01:37 <Nothing\> very much so, yes
01:41 <Lartza> Why?
02:05 <Nothing\> because it's not terribly safe to let just anybody see what your ip address is, it leaves you open to potential attacks
02:08 <Lartza> Plenty of IRC networks where they aren't for context
02:13 <Nothing\> oh i know
02:15 <Lartza> Attacks? Nobody cares
02:18 <Lartza> About you
02:24 <Nothing\> says you
02:39 <Lartza> It's not an insult it's the truth
02:48 <Lartza> This is the same with awaynicks etc
02:53 <Nothing\> i didn't take it as an insult, but believe me you're mistaken
03:01 <Nothing\> maybe not in here, but elsewhere for sure
03:19 <Lartza> There are cases where SOME people might benefit from a hidden IP but for almost everybody there's nothing wrong with it being available
03:20 <Nothing\> the risk may not be high, but better safe than sorry
03:42 <Nothing\> Lartza: i'd rather keep it hidden and mitigate the risk, however small
03:56 <Nothing\> the consequences would far outweigh the effort of avoiding them
04:02 <Lartza> Also for people like me where the vhost is something resolvable the fact they try to anonymize isn't that successful I can see :P
04:36 <Nothing\> no but it at least puts an extra step in it if anybody does want to be malicious
04:47 <Lartza> Eh I mean they can't get my home IP sure
04:49 <Nothing\> with a bit of luck they'll have ADD and be deterred by that sorta thing :P
05:11 <Lartza> Heh
05:22 <Nothing\> i'll admit, it probably is overkill for most people but given the enemies i have, i'd really rather not chance it
05:39 <Lartza> I mean my point is the same, people have far little to go to the effort to get people's IP's from IRC
05:47 <Lartza> *far little patience
05:56 <Lartza> Again, in almost all cases
06:04 <Lartza> I don't know your enemies :D
07:04 <Lartza> Knowing you're from Canada probably doesn't narrow much down or may not be news at all ;)
07:27 <Nothing\> see that's the thing too, having my isp available, you can figure out roughly where i live pretty easily anyways
07:36 <Nothing\> lol i used to freak out newbs doing that on other networks
08:04 <Lartza> Only the country afaik
08:21 <Nothing\> you'd be surprised, depending on the ISP you can narrow the region down pretty specifically
08:34 <Lartza> People still don't know they can be geoip'd these days btw, I've done it the past two years
08:42 <Lartza> In IRC too
08:44 <Nothing\> in some cases to the exact city, although some hostmasks actually say what city they're in
09:08 <Lartza> Hmm maybe, I know my hostmast does
09:18 <Lartza> But it would be in the first part that austnet hides
09:28 <Nothing\> all i can tell from your hostmask is you're in finland
09:37 <Nothing\> but it says what country you're in in your whois info too
09:55 <Lartza> Because .fi domain, that's my Hetzner server though
10:14 <Nothing\> ah see that's the thing too, shells and such throw things off lol
11:04 <Lartza> My hostmask from home here would be austnethash.dhcp.inet.fi, but if you saw the first stuff you'd see dsl-trebng22-******* where tre is a city code my ISP uses
11:24 <Nothing\> ah see i wouldn't have figured that
11:40 <Lartza> Well geoip would have, native finns would catch the city code only I guess
11:47 <Nothing\> usually i'd just look up the ISP and see what area they serve and hope it's a small one, when i wanted to scare newbs
12:22 <Lartza> Still leaves you over 235 thousand people ;)
12:35 <Nothing\> i've tried geoip back in the day and it seemed kind of inconsistent, at least between the various sites i used, sometimes it'd say panama for one IP, then it'd have some completely different location on another site
12:49 <Lartza> Though *cough* domain whois *cough*
12:55 <Lartza> ;P
13:13 <Nothing\> i wondered about that, i guess now that i'm using linux i can use real whois and not go through sites
13:38 <Lartza> Sites would work just fine though
13:46 <Lartza> And yeah geoip differs per ISP
13:47 <Nothing\> yeah they got me by no problem
15:48 <Lartza> Connected world and how much people share about them is a scary prospect though
16:06 <Nothing\> oh i know, facebook is probably WAY worse than sharing your ip or ISP or anything like that
16:21 <Nothing\> even just having the app on your phone, not even using it, is a huge liability
16:21 <Lartza> Heh, I probably agree
16:44 <Nothing\> they literally listen in through your phone's mic to conversations whether you're using it or not to pick up key words and serve you ads based on them
16:47 <Lartza> I do use WhatsApp but Facebook is almost empty for me
17:07 <Nothing\> it's really freaky when you talk about something with somebody and then later on find ads on facebook for it
17:47 <Nothing\> it almost sounds like something a paranoid schizophrenic would come up with, i guarantee if somebody said a company was listening to them through their phone 20 years ago they'd be labeled crazy
18:37 <Lartza> I'm kind of doubtful if Facebook specifically does that though
18:46 <Nothing\> believe me they do
18:49 <Lartza> Maybe not anymore :S GDPR and such
18:55 <Nothing\> gdpr?
19:01 <Lartza> EU data protection law
19:19 <Nothing\> ah, it might be different from region to region, but the idea of regional apps doesn't sound right to me
19:32 <Lartza> They can quite easily see where you are from though
19:48 <Lartza> GDPR would at least mean they would have to send the recordings to you, and I doubt they want the bad press about that
20:15 <Nothing\> for instance, one day i was talking to my mom about maybe going to a local furniture store to look at things, never once did either of us go online to look anything up regarding it, but sure enough later on i had an ad for the same store on youtube for the first time ever
20:29 <Nothing\> and there are many similar instances
20:48 <Lartza> Yeah there are instances of that online, it's not new to me
20:54 <Nothing\> i could see maybe if you're talking about it and then you look it up on google or i've even had ads for things i've looked for on wikipedia
21:03 <Lartza> Still I don't think there's ever foolproof confirmation for it
21:24 <Lartza> Google Now for sure listens you to all the time, but shouldn't store anything :S
21:27 <Lartza> Siri too
21:35 <Nothing\> actually the really freaky one was when i was looking up and reading about the heat equation on wikipedia, then youtube recommends me a video on it
21:59 <Nothing\> if they don't store anything how can it be analyzed? surely there's more information coming through than they can analyze in real time
22:29 <Nothing\> although if they don't analyze it in real time it could conceivably just keep building up a deficit as they analyze older and older data
23:52 <DHess_US> Yea, Google said their sever were secure while they were sending plaintext for the national security and law enforcement to intercept. There word is good.
24:03 <Lartza> Nothing\, You googled the wiki page?
24:14 <Nothing\> Lartza: nah i used the search engine on wikipedia
24:25 <Nothing\> i figure maybe google looked at my cookies or something
24:31 <Lartza> Chrome?
24:39 <Nothing\> chromium, but same difference
24:56 <Nothing\> actually i really should update this, i haven't touched it since i set this up in the summer
24:59 <Lartza> Well Chromium shouldn't send data like that to google, Chrome I would expect to
25:03 <DHess_US> Yea, Google doesn't save anything which could be a problem. https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/19/04/14/0019200/police-are-using-googles-location-data-from-hundreds-of-millions-of-phones
25:24 <Nothing\> DHess_US: that's good to know, but i still find it incredible that they can analyze all of that data in a useful way in real time
25:32 <Lartza> Is it bad if I willingly let google location history to be on? :P
25:51 <Nothing\> Lartza: i've had it on for some reason, actually i didn't even know you could turn it off until just now
25:57 <Nothing\> never was comfortable with that
26:08 <Nothing\> i use a pseudonym on google, but what's the point if they know where you live
26:22 <Lartza> And where you work!
26:23 <DHess_US> Did anybody make the connection between Gmail saving all email for analysis purposes and the Stored Communications Act which allows the government to sieze stored email after 180 days?
26:26 <Lartza> And how you get to work
26:27 <Lartza> And when
26:29 <Lartza> ;P
26:48 <Nothing\> well lucky for me i haven't got a phone so i haven't got to worry about that, but yeah it's scary what just having a phone leaks out about you
26:58 <DHess_US> Basically, all email that goes through Google goes to the government after 180 days whether you download or delete it or not.
27:08 <Nothing\> i'd hate to think what apple does, it's probably not as well known as google since i'm pretty sure android's open source isn't it?
27:38 <Nothing\> DHess_US: that's kinda scary
27:51 <Lartza> Nothing\, Plenty of android isn't though
27:53 <DHess_US> Nothing\, it is one of those undiscussed "exploits".
27:56 <Nothing\> i heard the other day that facebook analyzes messages between users for things like child porn and other illegal content
27:58 <Lartza> Like Google Play Services, the Gmail app
28:09 <Nothing\> or i should say "child porn and other illegal content"
28:21 <Nothing\> since you know that wasn't what they actually intended to do with it
28:38 <DHess_US> Yes, most services do that. They have hash lists or now pattern matching algorythms which use a government provided list.
29:09 <Nothing\> i don't even use google play anymore, i mean even though i don't have a phone i still steal my mom's once in a while and there just isn't anything worth getting in the app store, except maybe this kickass scientific calculator called hipercalc
29:12 <DHess_US> Or maybe they outsource to a third party contractor who of course wouldn't hand all of the data over to the government.
29:36 <Nothing\> i can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but i feel that you are lol
29:46 <Nothing\> we need to bring back the interrobang
29:53 <DHess_US> Every time I have been accused of being paranoid about government actions, it was later revealed that I was not paranoid enough.
29:58 <Nothing\> a punctuation mark indicating sarcasm
30:28 <Nothing\> or if you like, a sex act meant to get sensitive information out of your partner
30:29 <Nothing\> :P
30:34 <Lartza> There's always some loophole in the law too :P
30:43 <Lartza> To hand the data
31:26 <Lartza> I love how, this isn't maliciously but still, to get electronic mail here in Finland our national post company couldn't open and scan people's mail, but a daughter company in Estonia could
32:00 <Nothing\> that's messed up man
32:13 <Nothing\> i guess it makes sense though since estonia wouldn't be subject to finnish law
32:38 <Nothing\> see what we need is worldwide laws to govern the internet, although i can see that going awry very easily too
32:40 <Lartza> Yeah it's something weird in the post law, at least that's what I THINK happened
32:42 <DHess_US> This is what happens if a private company refuses to spy for the government, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qwest#Refusal_of_NSA_surveillance_requests
32:58 <DHess_US> The loophole in this case being, go to prison.
33:02 <Nothing\> is qwest even still a thing? i haven't heard anything about them since i worked for comcast like 15 years ago
33:17 <DHess_US> Not since that.
33:23 <Nothing\> lol
33:26 <Nothing\> terrible
34:28 <Nothing\> speaking of defunct companies lol i was reading about the history of the city i live in the other day and they were talking about the one mall here which is now basically just an empty shell, but when the mall opened, Eaton's was involved in the project and as part of their tennancy in the mall, they agreed to stay for 35 years when it opened in 1985
34:43 <Nothing\> and when did they go under? it was like early 2000s some time wasn't it?
35:01 <Nothing\> i barely even remember eaton's
35:46 <Lartza> Oh yeah just checked, the law says the company carrying the mail can't open it, but doesn't say anything about another company ;P
36:21 <Lartza> Checked out by attorney general and everything
36:21 <Nothing\> Lartza: what would be considered to be the company carrying the mail though? cuz conceivably if they hand it off to a 3rd party, then THEY would be the company carrying the mail, would they not?
36:34 <Lartza> Uhh
36:46 <DHess_US> Another one of the "loopholes" is that if an automated program siezes and searches electronic mail without human intervention, it is not considered siezed and searched.
36:49 <Nothing\> laws usually have specific definitions for ambiguous terms but you ever try reading through one of those sections?
37:07 <Lartza> I'm trying to read post law now :P
37:12 <DHess_US> It doesn't fall under the 4th amendment until a human actually looks at the information.
37:33 <Nothing\> DHess_US: what's the difference between an automated program flagging an email and sending it off to a real person and the real person reading the email initially?
37:41 <Nothing\> it seems the exact same thing to me, just with an extra step
38:03 <DHess_US> Nothing\, the real person can't read it without a warrant. But the automated program can.
38:18 <Nothing\> DHess_US: it's funny, i know more about american amendments to the constitution and such than i do about canada's own charter of rights and freedoms
38:27 <Nothing\> i don't even know if we have any amendments to it
38:51 <Nothing\> DHess_US: oh okay so the warrant is provided by the evidence gathered by the program to give the real people permission to read it, gotcha
39:07 <Nothing\> i guess that's not as bad
39:16 <DHess_US> So the program says, "Hey, I found something and here is the analysis but you need a warrant to read the data I siezed." User presents analysis to judge for warrant. Judge issues warrant. Email read.
39:49 <DHess_US> More likely of course is that anything the program finds is covered by an existing FISA warrant so can be read immediately.
39:52 <Lartza> "A post company has no right to open a closed envelope" and then in the beginning a post company is a "company that practices postal operations that handle letter mail"
40:12 <Nothing\> what do you think of the whole idea of providing mandatory backdoors for encryption? they say it's for instances like if there's information encrypted that pertains to a life threatening situation, like a kidnapping for instance, but you know damn well they'll use it for other things
40:24 <DHess_US> The envelope thing is a different matter. Unencrypted email is more like a post card and postal employees and anybody else are free to read them.
40:45 <Nothing\> Lartza: wait but it's a federal offense for an individual to open mail that isn't addressed to them in the US anyways, so how is it okay for a 3rd party to open the mail?
40:56 <DHess_US> Further, encryption does not create an expectation of privacy under law so if they can break the encryption, they are free to read it.
40:59 <Lartza> It's not in Finland I guess? :S
41:08 <Nothing\> DHess_US: it doesn't?
41:20 <DHess_US> Nothing\, absolutely not.
41:23 <Nothing\> i would assume that just using your computer in your home would create the expectation of privacy
41:37 <Nothing\> heck, just being in your home creates the expectation of privacy
41:51 <Nothing\> that's a really weird thing come to think of it
42:10 <Nothing\> it'd be illegal to take pictures of somebody inside their home because of the expectation of privacy, right
42:24 <DHess_US> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=927973
42:25 <DHess_US> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=927973
42:32 <DHess_US> The Fourth Amendment in Cyberspace: Can Encryption Create a Reasonable Expectation of Privacy?
42:33 <Nothing\> but afaik, it's perfectly legal to access somebody's cell phone or laptop camera and use it to take pictures of them
43:31 <DHess_US> "Encrypting communications cannot create a reasonable expectation of privacy. The reason is that the Fourth Amendment regulates access, not understanding: no matter how unlikely it is that the government will successfully decrypt ciphertext, the Fourth Amendment offers no protection if it succeeds. "
43:51 <Nothing\> dang
43:54 <Lartza> Nothing\, communication privacy is in constitution BUT I think since you or the sending company contracts the post company to deliver the mail electronically you or them give the right to open it and then it only is prevented by the law that says THAT company can't open it so they give it to the other one again under your contract
44:05 <Nothing\> thank goodness encryption is reliable, afaik
44:21 <Lartza> Like I said in the beginning, this isn't really a malicous operation but an electronic service for you/companies
44:25 <DHess_US> The math behind encryption is reliable anyway.
44:29 <Nothing\> from what i've heard there's basically nothing they can do when presented with encrypted data if they can't get the password
44:35 <Nothing\> DHess_US: exactly
44:48 <Lartza> Well, there are flaws from time to time
44:55 <Lartza> And quantum computing is gonna screw us all :P
45:00 <Nothing\> that's why it scares me that they could potentially force devs to include backdoors for encryption
45:13 <DHess_US> But the governement has done various things to prevent encryption from becoming ubiquitous like sabotaging the standards committees.
45:17 <Lartza> Gonna need new quantum encryption algorithms
45:48 <Nothing\> lol quantum computing's such a weird field
45:59 <Nothing\> anything that brings quantum effects into the macroscopic world is
46:13 <DHess_US> No, there are already quantum encryption resistant algorythms and even with quantum decryption, only certain classes of public key cryptography are compromised.
46:45 <Nothing\> actually i read some years back that scientists managed to get a macroscopic object into a state of superposition, it was a little piece of metal, or something, still very tiny, but they got it to oscillate and not oscillate simultaneously
46:48 <Lartza> Oh, I haven't been keeping up then :P
46:50 <Nothing\> for lack of a better explanation
46:54 <DHess_US> In many cases, doubling the key size negates any quantum decrytion advantage.
47:27 <DHess_US> And doubling the key size is completely feasible with existing processor power.
48:31 <Nothing\> i heard recently about this cryptocurrency company where the guy running it kept all of the data on his laptop, encrypted, and then while traveling to india apparently died of complications due to crohn's disease, rending all of the data useless and losing all of the cryptocurrency it was meant to keep track of, i think around $150 million
48:50 <Nothing\> but a lot of people suspect the guy was just pulling a fast one and faked his death for the money
49:28 <Nothing\> here it is
49:29 <Nothing\> https://business.financialpost.com/technology/blockchain/cryptocurrency-exchange-quadriga-seeks-creditor-protection-after-founders-death
49:40 <Nothing\> that probably explains it a lot better than i did :P
49:51 <Lartza> Surely they have a body though? :D
49:59 <Lartza> Sounds conspiracy nonsense
50:04 <Nothing\> lol i didn't even think to look into that
50:17 <Nothing\> Lartza: that's what i'd say but dying of crohn's disease sounds very suspicious to me
50:48 <Nothing\> although if the guy was pulling a fast one, he did a perfect job of it as not even his wife was in on it
51:11 <Lartza> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1378762/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856159/
51:23 <Nothing\> ah pubmed <3
51:48 <Lartza> It's a small risk apparently but it is there
51:50 <Nothing\> without pubmed i'd be paying hundreds of dollars just to look at things like that
51:55 Part: IRCStats ([email protected]) from #EEVblog
51:55 Join: IRCStats ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:10 <Lartza> Heh, I'm in uni so it's pretty nice to have access to stuff
52:15 <Nothing\> Lartza: yeah i had a feeling it was something like that, i dunno much specifically about the case but the crohn's disease thing was the only part that sounded suspicious to me
52:42 Quit: IRCStats ([email protected]) Changing hosts
52:42 Join: IRCStats ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:42 <Nothing\> Lartza: that's one reason i regret dropping out of high school was missing out on lab and hands on experience and the chance to play with cool toys
52:45 <Lartza> Why would they have picked crohn from all available options though :P
52:55 <Nothing\> i'd love to go back to uni or college for EE or something related
53:04 <Nothing\> Lartza: well maybe he already had it so he just went along with it
53:54 <Nothing\> i don't know if uni's right for me though, i can't read very well on account of ADD, so at most i can read a page or two of technically dense material in a sitting, so i don't think i'd keep up with the curriculum very well
54:20 <Lartza> I mean I'm not keeping up but :P
54:24 <Nothing\> lol my strategy's been to teach myself everything BEFORE i consider post secondary school so i already know it when i go in, but then i'd just be bored as hell
54:40 <Lartza> Thankfully health services exist
54:47 <DHess_US> Thoughts? https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/a4uwag/spectek_flash_without_logo_grade_marking_low/
54:50 <Lartza> And good welfare system
54:56 <Nothing\> as it is i feel like i'd be bored, talking to people a lot of the stuff i do isn't even touched on until second year, it sounds like they don't even do much hands on work in the first year
55:17 <Nothing\> yeah i've always been jealous of the EU's social services, seems like you guys got it right
55:40 <Lartza> Finland was the country that did the basic income trial too
55:47 <Nothing\> especially the idea of... oh crap i can't remember what it's called, where everybody's guaranteed a base amount of money from the government
55:48 <Lartza> Far too short though :S We'll see
55:49 <Nothing\> that's it
56:01 <Nothing\> we did a trial of that here in a few counties too a few years back
56:02 <Lartza> It was only a year, no extension was given
56:19 <Nothing\> i'm on disability so something like that would be great
56:22 <Lartza> Nobody is going to make lifechanging decisions in a year, but it did improve on a lot of things
56:52 <Lartza> Didn't improve employment rate but for instance it increased people's confidence that they can get employed
56:55 <Nothing\> as it is they expect you to be able to live off of $1200 a month for disability, even 10-15 years ago before the recession drove inflation through the roof it wasn't possible to live on that
57:05 <Nothing\> but nowadays even a bachelor apartment will cost you $800 a month
57:26 <Nothing\> i almost wound up homeless cuz nobody wanted to give me a place since the rent would be most of my income, they assumed i wouldn't be able to keep up
57:27 <Lartza> I live on like 1200$ a month :S
57:43 <Lartza> Rent is 650$
58:01 <Nothing\> i split a 3 bedroom townhouse with my mom for $1400 :/
58:17 <Nothing\> it's a good deal though, we were paying the same for a crappy 2 bedroom apartment before
58:29 <Lartza> 32m2 apartment for me
58:39 <Nothing\> but yeah in 2003 when i moved out on my own, i paid $550 for my first apartment, which was a bachelor
58:44 <Lartza> ehh 344 sqft
58:50 <Lartza> freedom units :P
59:12 <Nothing\> i'm not sure of the square footage here, i just realized it's odd that they use square feet here to denote floorspace here
59:15 <Lartza> Oh, it's a canadian term
59:29 <Lartza> That pretty much describes what I live in
00:02 <Lartza> My kitchen is nicer than in smaller ones where it might be on the wall but it's still alcove for bed etc
00:32 <soulreap> hi
00:39 <Lartza> Good evening
00:59 <soulreap> hi Lartza
01:00 <Nothing\> lol evening
01:04 <Nothing\> it's 11am here :P
01:06 <Lartza> 6PM :P
01:09 <soulreap> hi Nothing\
01:16 <soulreap> 1:07am here
01:19 <Nothing\> huh i didn't think finland was that far east
01:22 <Lartza> Good ugt
01:31 <Nothing\> hey soulreap how you doing? better i hope
01:32 <Lartza> Nothing\, Russia is our neighbor east :P
01:42 <soulreap> yeh beter
01:47 <Nothing\> Lartza: and norway to the west, isn't it?
01:55 <Lartza> Sweden, then norway
01:59 <Nothing\> soulreap: that's good to hear, emotional tumult is a hell of a thing to deal with
02:00 <Lartza> Some shared border with norway in north too
02:14 <Nothing\> Lartza: ah, yeah that's weird, i didn't even realize you all shared the same peninsula until recently
02:26 <Nothing\> is it true your pm/president whatever you call her can't roll her Rs?
02:33 <Nothing\> i heard she was ridiculed over that
02:47 <Lartza> Old president
02:47 <soulreap> today i feel good
02:52 <Lartza> But yes
02:57 <Nothing\> ah i thought it mighta been old, it was some years ago i heard that
03:26 <Nothing\> soulreap: me too, the weather's supposed to be nice and i've gotta go out of town so i'm looking forward to a nice drive
03:41 <Nothing\> it's been a rough week, so i'm grateful to be feeling good for a change
03:52 <soulreap> i want to clean my room today
03:55 <soulreap> it is messy
03:58 <Lartza> We are on our second term with the current one after her
04:18 <Nothing\> you should, it's a pain in the ass but i find keeping tidy surroundings helps one's mental state a great deal, albeit in a subtle manner
04:39 <Nothing\> Lartza: oh wow musta been a long time ago i heard that
04:52 <Nothing\> lol i can hear a pissed of squirrel outside, they make such weird noises when they're angry
04:58 <Lartza> She did 2000-2012 so two terms too
05:11 <Nothing\> ah i assumed a term was 4 years heh
05:19 <Nothing\> see, i don't even know how terms work in canada
05:23 <Nothing\> or our elections even
05:38 <DHess_US> Fuckign squirrels. One chewed throught he cable of my GPS receiver and took it.
05:39 <Lartza> I couldn't have told our terms were six years if you asked :P
05:47 <Nothing\> it seems like some random thing happens like some legislation it tabled and somehow that kicks off an election
06:05 <Nothing\> DHess_US: lol i've been feeding the ones here but it's getting expensive cuz they go through about a kilo of peanuts a week
06:18 <Nothing\> and now i've got crows and bluejays coming around too
06:27 <DHess_US> If it were legal, I'll feed them with an air rifle.
06:33 <Lartza> I do vote and we vote for the candidates directly is what I know about the elections
06:47 <Lartza> Two rounds, no weird electoral crap like in the US
06:57 <Nothing\> DHess_US: i believe it is, i've seen channels on youtube where people shoot squirrels, rabbits etc with air rifles, they're hired by farmers in the UK
07:12 <Nothing\> it's good money, too
07:14 <Lartza> Air rifles? :O Those don't sound humane
07:16 <DHess_US> The electorial college is not the problem with US elections.
07:20 <DHess_US> First past the post is.
07:36 <Nothing\> Lartza: oh they are, i watched a few and they died pretty quickly from head/neck shots
07:42 <Lartza> They'll just die of lead poisoning not the shot if you miss though
08:02 <Nothing\> air rifles can be pretty powerful, plus i think the one he was using was a .22 which i didn't even know they made air rifles that were .22 gauge
08:03 <DHess_US> Lartza, large caliber spring piston air rifles are as humane as it gets.
08:15 <DHess_US> They are just barely subsonic but pack as much punch as possible.
08:26 <Lartza> Maybe I'm thinking of smaller air rifles then :P I don't know how big they can get
08:28 <Nothing\> DHess_US: i woulda figured compressed air would give you a lot more muzzle velocity
08:30 <DHess_US> They also have .25 gauge.
08:41 <DHess_US> Nothing\, me also but it doesn't work that way.
08:42 <Nothing\> i didn't even know .25 gauge was standard lol
08:52 <DHess_US> .17, .20, .22, .25
09:01 <DHess_US> Spring piston in .17 is supersonic.
09:42 <Nothing\> heh back in my more youthful and foolish days i had this crappy little BB gun and musta unloaded about 30 of them into the same spot on my leg, left a mark like i was hit by one of those beanbag rounds but never broke the flesh
09:51 <DHess_US> Of course I could use standard velocity .22LR in my 10/22 but that is even more illegal here.
09:56 <Nothing\> those things give a real good sting but i loathe to think what it'd do to your eye
10:36 <Nothing\> actually it's really sad, my brother used to have the same BB gun, it had a full metal frame, case whatever, then when i went to buy it, the newer ones are entirely plastic and the stupid thing literally fell apart in my hands after a week
10:45 <DHess_US> Yea, I got shot through the hand with an air rifle and I mean literally through my hand like an entrance and exit wound.
11:02 <Nothing\> damn that's nuts
11:19 <DHess_US> It was an early and lasting lesson in firearms safety.
11:30 <Nothing\> lol i stabbed myself in the hand with a glass stirring rod in grade 9, my science teacher was trying to tell us it was special glass that couldn't cut you, so i wanted to prove him wrong lol
11:55 <DHess_US> Yea, I did that a few times pushing glass tubing through stoppers.
12:00 <Nothing\> it didn't go all the way through but it was at least deep enough that i got that distinct "snapping" sensation you get when you're stabbed
12:37 <Nothing\> i also had a 4in knife stuck in my thigh, luckily it missed everything important, and amazingly it only ever felt like a charlie horse in terms of pain, not very painful at all
12:53 <Lartza> Nothing\, afaik they still make decent BB guns just gotta look around and buy the good stuff
13:12 <Nothing\> the worst part was the paramedics left it in for a few hours while they assessed me so every time they moved me i could feel it moving around inside my leg, but i'd describe the experience as being far more uncomfortable than painful
13:16 <DHess_US> I stabbed my leg just above my knee with a small exacto knife and nicked an artery.
13:16 <Lartza> My friends do some WW2 and have heavy M1 Garand and MP40 replicas
13:20 <Nothing\> Lartza: oh yeah they do, they just cost more
14:01 <DHess_US> Why would you buy an M1 Garand replica when you can just buy an M1 Garand for less>?
14:27 <soulreap> i think i get my mum to help me do big cleanout of my room
14:42 <Lartza> DHess_US, To shoot people with? :P
14:53 <Nothing\> soulreap: it's nice to have a mum to help with things like that, isn't it? :P
14:58 <DHess_US> That's what Garands are for.
15:07 <Lartza> Oh BB gun isn't the correct term for airsoft guns
15:11 <soulreap> yeh i live with mum
15:29 <Nothing\> those airsoft guns seem like a joke to me
15:29 <DHess_US> I have a mini-14 instead of a Garand atm.
15:32 <Lartza> DHess_US, You get locked up for it and I think not a lot of people would show up to shoot each other for fun ;P
15:34 <Nothing\> what's the point of them even?
15:46 <DHess_US> Oh, a fake Garand.
15:46 <Nothing\> i wouldn't imagine you could so much as plink cans with one
15:48 <Lartza> What's the point of paintball? Or shooter video games?
15:55 <DHess_US> Airsoft Garand or whatever.
15:59 <Nothing\> Lartza: paintballs you can actually see where they hit
16:06 <Lartza> DHess_US, Yeah I incorrectly though BB was pretty much the same thing
16:09 <Lartza> *thought
16:16 <Lartza> I blame non-nativity
16:29 <Nothing\> but how are you to tell if somebody got hit with airsoft? it'd come down to "i got you!" "no you didn't!" "yeah i got you!" "you did not!" ad nauseum
16:40 <soulreap> i have a computer i can throw away
16:44 <DHess_US> I live in the US where a real M1 Garand makes a fine rifle for general use.
16:49 <Lartza> Don't play with kids that cheat? :S
16:52 <Nothing\> i kept all of my old computers lol
17:13 <DHess_US> I played paintball when it first started. I still have my Sheridan paint pistol.
17:18 <Nothing\> actually i found an old AMD thunderbird CPU when i was going through some old stuff the other day, i dunno what on earth i'd ever do with it
17:22 <soulreap> this is dell pentium d BTX motherboard one
17:31 <soulreap> should i throw it away?
17:48 <Nothing\> soulreap: personally i'd keep it, but i'm a boarderline hoarder
17:51 <Nothing\> borderline
19:50 <soulreap> idk maybe i put it in the wardrobe
19:51 <Nothing\> heh i saw one project i'd like to try where the guy made electrically heated gloves but used an old CPU for the heating element
20:31 <soulreap> :o a cpu?
20:35 <Nothing\> soulreap: there ya go, you never know when it'd be useful, i mean i didn't really have a use for my old computer stuff when i put it away, but now that i know my way around electronics more i figure i could potentially repurpose the parts for a project
21:03 <Nothing\> lol yeah he just wired up the power i think and ran enough through it to make it toasty warm
21:13 <soulreap> ooh
21:27 <soulreap> i have old cpus in a box
21:30 <soulreap> i colected
21:31 <Nothing\> i was just thinking of a similar project, but using something like DIP16 ICs with jelly bean logic or something
21:31 <soulreap> :D
21:35 <DHess_US> Good times, https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/attachments/sheridan/30921d1332048424-sheridan-picture-thread-hpnx0956.jpg
21:51 <Nothing\> it'd have to be older chips though, i wouldn't imagine cmos chips would draw a lot of power
22:12 <DHess_US> I have an AMD K6-3 I would still be using if the motherboard battery hadn't died.
22:20 <Nothing\> DHess_US: that looks like a tranquilizer gun
22:26 <DHess_US> Nothing\
22:32 <Nothing\> DHess_US: why not replace the battery? they're probably fairly cheap
22:47 <DHess_US> Nothing\, originally they were but add the magazine tube and they become a paint ball pistol.
22:52 <soulreap> i have 386 sx 25mhz i want to make work
22:55 <Nothing\> i wouldn't know where to get one from a brick and mortar place but you could probably get one from china dirt cheap
23:05 <DHess_US> Nothing\, embedded lithium cell inside the CMOS/CLOCK/BIOS
23:09 <Nothing\> DHess_US: that's pretty cool
23:13 <Nothing\> DHess_US: eww
23:28 <DHess_US> Asus P2T4P55 or something.
23:41 <Nothing\> heh i remember back in the day, we used to refer to the bios as just "the cmos"
23:59 <DHess_US> I have no love for embedded lithium cells.
24:20 <Nothing\> i have no love for any embedded or permanently attached components/peripherals
24:43 <Nothing\> oh cool there's a blue jay like less than a foot from my patio door
24:57 <soulreap> what is blue jay?
24:57 <Nothing\> one more mouth to feed :/
25:10 <Nothing\> lol really?
25:40 <Nothing\> that's sad, googling "blue jay" brings up more stuff about the baseball team than the bird
25:43 <soulreap> ooh i looked it on google
26:12 <Nothing\> yeah, they're cool looking birds, real aggressive too
26:12 <soulreap> it looks nice
26:37 <Nothing\> i figured it was common knowledge what a blue jay is, but that's just cuz i live near toronto and the blue jays are their baseball team for the MLB
26:52 <soulreap> ooh
27:05 <soulreap> i didnt know what it was
27:23 <Nothing\> damn squirrels are begging for nuts now lol how can i say no
27:36 <Nothing\> they walk right up to the window and put a paw on while flashing me puppy dog eyes
28:04 <DHess_US> Sing to it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd4j-dQyHEQ
28:18 <soulreap> ooh i have a dog too
28:32 <Nothing\> i tried mimicking the call of a blue jay i heard the other day and it actually came to me
28:56 <Nothing\> i felt like doctor dolittle
29:03 <soulreap> :D
29:09 <coppice> oh, so you're a mocking bird
29:10 <DHess_US> Or the creepy guy with the free candy van.
29:24 <DHess_US> No, he was mocking a bird.
29:27 <Nothing\> lol
30:22 <Nothing\> you ever see those birds that can mimic almost any noise? there's a popular video of one where it mimics things like loggers' chainsaws, truck engines, camera shutters and even a toy laser pistol sound
30:53 <DHess_US> Lyre bird
30:58 <Nothing\> that's right
31:13 <Nothing\> i read yesterday that crows can apparently mimic human speech too
31:22 <Nothing\> and a lot of other noises
31:32 <soulreap> we have anoying birds in the tree
31:37 <soulreap> make horible noise
31:46 <soulreap> miner birds
32:17 <Nothing\> tell me about it, every morning the robins here tweet deafeningly, and as summer comes they start earlier and earlier, by mid summer they end up starting at like 3am lol
32:52 <coppice> the problem with miner birds is all that noise as they blast rocks
33:26 <Nothing\> i dunno, i picture a miner bird being like a wood pecker, but with rocks
33:29 <soulreap> we used to have cockatiel but i have some problems with soudns and i got mum to get rid of it it anoyed mee too much
33:45 <Nothing\> soulreap: you too? man don't get me started on noises
33:52 <Nothing\> how do you feel about ticking clocks/watches?
34:06 <soulreap> they drive me crazy
34:32 <soulreap> pluss i hear things liek my phone charger
34:37 <soulreap> and other htings
34:42 <soulreap> that are electric
34:51 <soulreap> i hear it high poitch sound
35:05 <Nothing\> heh i'm so bad i even hear noises from electronics most people wouldn't even know exist, like when the colon in the time on my microwave blinks, it makes a very quiet buzzing noise, or my remote makes a barely audible beep and then clicking noises when i hold a button down
35:15 <Nothing\> or i can hear the inductor in a lot of SMPSs
35:18 <soulreap> yeh same
35:39 <Nothing\> which for being in my mid 30's shoudn't even be audible to me anymore
35:49 <Nothing\> CRTs were awful for that high pitched hum they gave off
36:27 <soulreap> yes and fluro lights i dont like it i cant have them
36:30 <Nothing\> and of course i have really bad tinnitus, so i constantly hear a ~12khz ringing loud enough that i can hear it over things like traffic or unbalanced fans
36:46 <soulreap> ooh
37:32 <coppice> tinnitus is a word with a real ring to it
37:35 <Nothing\> thankfully the tinnitus is easily ignored
37:44 <Nothing\> oh wow there are 2 blue jays now, i've never seen 2 at the same time
37:54 <Nothing\> lol i feel like a nerd fawning over bird sightings
38:27 <coppice> hiw can you ignore tinnitus. I had a couple of short spells of it, and it definitely wasn't ignorable
38:47 <soulreap> my frend has that in his ear too
38:56 <soulreap> i am lucky i dotn have it
39:48 <Nothing\> i'm not sure exactly, i just do things that either require enough attention that i have none to give the tinnitus and/or i'll just do something enjoyable so i become engrossed in it to the point i don't notice the tinnitus anymore
40:05 <Nothing\> i employ similar strategies for anxiety so i guess i just get a lot of practice
40:15 <DHess_US> Setup a white noise generator like a fan.
40:49 <Nothing\> i did find one site that claimed to offer customized combinations of frequencies to block out tinnitus, but it wound up being a crock
40:58 <Nothing\> white noise bothers me more though
41:13 <Nothing\> soulreap: i bet you have trouble sleeping cuz of noises too
41:48 <soulreap> yes i cant sleep unles si have my sleeping tablets tho or i jsut stay awake
41:56 <Nothing\> i used to have terrible insomnia from noises until i discovered earplugs, i tell you earplugs work better and more consistently than any sleeping med i ever took
42:30 <soulreap> earplugs ok but i still cant sleep
42:34 <Nothing\> i buy cases of 200 pairs of those yellow foam 3M ones from an industrial supply company for $25, it's a great deal considering the pharmacy sells them for like $20 for 10 pairs of much lower quality ones
42:53 <DHess_US> https://www.amazon.com/Sleep-Easy-Sound-Conditioner-Machine/dp/B00GFSF402
43:00 <Nothing\> yeah they can be hard to get used to, it can be uncomfortable feeling your ears stuffed full of foam, or the worst is when they get itchy
43:04 <DHess_US> Personally I just use a fan but whatever.
43:33 <soulreap> but i take earplugs out soemtimes to listen to next door argue :D
43:39 <Nothing\> DHess_US: it doesn't bother me when i'm trying to sleep, amazingly enough i can actually meditate on it
43:56 <DHess_US> Use the noise machine when you *aren't* sleeping
44:09 <Nothing\> traffic is another noise i can't stand
44:14 <Nothing\> especially motorcycles
44:45 <Nothing\> those dicks who drive around on huge choppers clearly configured to be the world's most elaborate vibrator
45:09 <DHess_US> The loud sound actually makes them safer from cars not noticing and hitting them.
46:58 <Nothing\> i can totally see that
47:09 <Nothing\> they probably deal with a lot of dicks in cars
47:17 <Nothing\> or god forbid, transport trucks
49:41 <soulreap> my oldest cpu is 386
50:36 <DHess_US> I was using a Pentium 60 in my router up until a couple years ago.
51:26 <soulreap> ooh
04:11 <soulreap> can you change cpus in the router"?
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24:37 <DHess_US> soulreap, no. I mean my router for many years was a Packard Bell desktop with a Pentium 60. At some point the shelf it was sitting on collapsed dropping it to the concrete floor and I replaced it with another desktop which was a Celeron 300A overclocked to 450
25:10 <soulreap> ooh
25:29 <soulreap> my frend says my shelf is too smal for my pc to sit on
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35:55 <Halcyon> Morning everyone
37:02 <T3sl4> yo
37:08 <Halcyon> What's doing?
37:18 <T3sl4> not much
39:55 <Halcyon> Riveting :)
40:14 <rust_collector> morning
40:21 <Halcyon> Hey rust_collector
40:31 <rust_collector> hello all the people
40:32 <EEVBlog> Hello there, rust_collector!
40:36 * T3sl4 mixes rust_collector with powdered aluminum
41:09 <rust_collector> I can react violently to that
41:46 <T3sl4> in celebration, here, have a lit sparkler
41:57 <rust_collector> eeh, thanks
41:59 <rust_collector> ?
42:02 <T3sl4> haha
52:20 <rust_collector> I am back to my noob power supply planning today. I compared enough datasheets that I have no idea what is what any more. Oh well. could be worse.
52:30 <rust_collector> how are things in other places?
05:02 <Halcyon> Not too bad
05:10 <Halcyon> Helping friends move this weekend
08:28 <rust_collector> that is always.....fun....
09:47 <rust_collector> has anyone come across this sort of resistor before? https://imgur.com/a/iVQgHNC
09:59 <rust_collector> at least I hope it is just a resistor, or 3
13:34 <Ampera> hi Halcyon
13:44 <Halcyon> Hey Ampera
13:50 <Ampera> how do
13:58 <Halcyon> Not too bad, yourself?
14:10 <Ampera> eh, I'm trying to find someone to talk to about my trans issues
14:17 <Ampera> but everyone is fucking shit
14:33 <Halcyon> I'm all ears
14:40 <Ampera> I tell you Halcyon, the field of mental healthcare for my issue is one of the most bastardized and horrific things I've ever seen.
14:41 <DHess_US> rust_collector, not I. Obviously it is not a thick film network.
14:51 <Ampera> No I mean a professional, someone with experience.
14:52 <Halcyon> Oh yes, absolutely
15:08 <Halcyon> It's a shame you aren't here, I could put you in touch with a number of different places
15:09 <Ampera> I've seen lobotomies that have had more intelligent and caring doctors.
15:27 <Ampera> My big issue is I don't want someone to just come out and "confirm/affirm" my condition.
15:33 <DHess_US> speaking of which, https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
15:35 <Ampera> I want someone to disagree with me, and help me find the true nature of my problem.
15:41 <Halcyon> I could reach out to NYPD if you like and see if their gay/lesbian liaison officers can suggest anyone?
15:57 <Ampera> A. NYPD is like 3 hours away B. the issue is that they are all awful
15:59 <Ampera> I don't trust them at all
16:06 <Halcyon> Well whoever the Police are where you live
16:10 <Ampera> and what does gay/lesbianism have anything to do with me?
16:12 <Lartza> rust_collector, cement resistor mayhaps?
16:15 <Halcyon> I assumes NYPD would cover all of New York ?
16:27 <Ampera> Halcyon, New York is a massive state
16:33 <Halcyon> Yes, I know
16:35 <Ampera> NYPD covers NYC
16:39 <Ampera> we don't really have state police
16:39 <Halcyon> Right
16:53 <Ampera> We have state troopers, but they are usually just highway police or militia
17:00 <DHess_US> Lartza, the pins look too good for a cement resistor but maybe.
17:07 <Ampera> The issue is I know exactly what they will say.
17:09 <Halcyon> We do, my organisation covers the entire state. There are no "city Police" that are restricted to a boundary like that
17:22 <Halcyon> If you work for NSW Police, you have jurisdiction in the entire state.
17:35 <DHess_US> Lartza, but no tolerance marking.
17:35 <Ampera> They will say my feelings are completely normal and that I should go through with the treatment, with no willingness to give me doubts or question it.
17:49 <Ampera> Halcyon, there are police on all layers of government.
18:10 <Ampera> There is always city/town/village police, and then there is the county sheriff, and then there are state police, and then there are federal police.
18:20 <Halcyon> But anyway. Getting back on point, Police have LGBTIQ++ liaison officers, who specialise in those sorts of issues and are ingrained in the community. They can help get you in touch with professionals
18:30 <DHess_US> Also court police
18:37 <DHess_US> "marshals"
18:41 <Ampera> Halcyon, the professional they would get me in touch with threatened my mom that I would kill myself if I wasn't drugged at age 12.
19:03 <Halcyon> Well, you asked for a professional and I'm offering my assistance.
19:05 <Ampera> Arlene Lev, she's the district's leading professional in LQBT+ issues.
19:15 <Halcyon> You can either take it or leave it, I can't force you to do anything
19:17 <Ampera> I know Halcyon, and thanks for trying, but that's my issue.
19:23 <Ampera> All of the professionals are terrible people.
19:26 <Halcyon> But I will say this, you need to leave your assumptions at the door, it doesn't help yourself.
19:43 <Ampera> They're not just assumptions, I know exactly what they will do.
19:58 <Halcyon> I'll get in touch with my counterparts there anyway and see what I can uncover, even if it's just "they all suck"
20:07 <Ampera> I also don't even think my local police jurisdiction has anything close to that
20:19 <Halcyon> To be fair, you experience with a handful doesn't represent all of them
20:27 <Ampera> Actually I never went to anyone
20:31 <Ampera> I just know what they are like.
20:35 <Halcyon> You would be surprised what your local Police can do
20:54 <Halcyon> I know there seems to be this distrust in America for some reason, but I have met some wonderful people
20:57 <Ampera> Halcyon, the police in the US do not have a great connotation like that, and I'd prefer to not go to /them/.
20:57 <Lartza> DHess_US, rust_collector, Markings seem to look fairly identical to https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/123625965761-0-1/s-l1000.jpg that was sold as "0.22 Ohm 5 Watts Three Leg Ceramic Emitter Resistor"
21:15 <Halcyon> You don't have to go to them, I will do it for you and talk to them directly then pass on what they say
21:19 <Ampera> I trust the police to get involved in serious issues that threaten my life on a criminal basis.
21:30 <Ampera> If you wish to, I presume you know where I live.
21:41 <Halcyon> I won't be giving them your address or name
21:47 <Lartza> But why six pins
21:50 <Halcyon> Just having a chat
22:04 <Ampera> That's alright, but just out of curiosity, ask them what would be the first person they would recommend.
22:10 <Ampera> If her name is Arlene Lev, then that is a big red flag.
22:16 <Ampera> and also proves my point
22:17 <Halcyon> That was my intention
22:30 <DHess_US> Lartza, I agree, that is probably what it is. Those resistors are also fusible.
23:14 <DHess_US> They are used for emitter ballasting in parallel and class-ab applications.
23:22 <Halcyon> On another note, I wish you lived here if for no other reason but to change your perception about Police. It sounds like the difference between here and there is vast. Here, most people would have no problems walking into a Police station and asking for help with issues such as what you're talking about.
23:27 <DHess_US> I prefer metal oxide myself.
23:37 <rust_collector> Lartza: I thought it was a weird package, these are out of a late 90s sony amplifier.
23:42 <DHess_US> But flameproof metal oxide resistors aren't fusible.
23:49 <Ampera> Halcyon, because if I would, they would look at me and point me to the nearest loony bin.
23:57 <DHess_US> rust_collector, ah, that makes sense.
24:06 <Halcyon> Every year we have about 50-60 of our Police marking in Mardi Gras and get really involved with the community. It's a good thing.
24:08 <Ampera> I walk into the police station if someone just tried to mug me, not if I need someone to hug me.
24:11 <Halcyon> *marching
25:03 <Halcyon> No, I get where you are coming from, but here, we offer a community service. Yes we solve crimes and rescue people, but were are also there when you have no one else to turn to or you're lost.
25:46 <Halcyon> As I said, it's very different to what I've observed
25:51 <Ampera> We have programs like that, but the US is built on independence and individualism. The police and authority in general is distrusted by nature.
26:07 <Ampera> and I distrust every single person on this planet to some degree or another.
26:30 <Halcyon> Sure, but while you have "programs" we have full time Police in those roles that specialise in this stuff. Not just one-off programs when they feel like it.
27:04 <Lartza> rust_collector, Seems the "top pins" aren't even used in the amp, so yeah ceramic twin resistor with two 0.22ohms in series inside
27:17 <Ampera> The issue is that with my problem it gets political almost instantly.
27:21 <rust_collector> I also grabbed a few transistors from it. 2sb1647. the sheet says it is a darlington PNP I am not sure if it being a darlington would make any difference when I want to use them as... oh, what was the name.... pass transistor?
27:45 <rust_collector> yes, the resistos were just soldered in on one side
27:52 <Ampera> People will try to hurt me and might not even know it themselves, they treat gender reassignment as a cure all and end all, and don't hesitate do to thing like give it to little children
28:00 <Halcyon> I know it does Ampera. Which is sad. I can't begin to imagine how shit it is for people who are different.
28:29 <Ampera> The issue is that's the prescribed treatment, that's how everyone I know does it, and if someone doesn't do it like that, they are immediately harassed and shut down.
28:30 <Halcyon> Here, being gay, lesbian even trans isn't considered "special" anymore. Literally, almost no one cares.
28:46 <Ampera> Why do you group homosexuality with transexuality though?
28:51 <Ampera> They have nothing to do with each other
29:00 <Halcyon> Because it's still sexuality to a degree
29:11 <Halcyon> It's nothing to do with who you sleep with
29:14 <Ampera> My gender issues have nothing to do with who I am attracted to.
29:17 <Halcyon> I know
29:26 <Halcyon> But the same can be said for intersex etc...
29:40 <Halcyon> It's still part of my portfolio.
29:40 <Ampera> Intersex?
29:43 <Ampera> what's that
30:05 <Halcyon> Basically people who are both male and female
30:12 <Ampera> so nonbinary
30:23 <Ampera> Personally I do not believe such a concept exists.
30:25 <Halcyon> I guess that's the modern term for it
30:51 <Halcyon> Meh, I'm on the fence about it too, but it's still my job to look after people who come to me for help
30:55 <Ampera> I think my main point is I want someone who is going to disagree with me if I say I want to change my gender.
31:05 <Halcyon> Why?
31:07 <Ampera> I want someone who will debate with me, argue with me.
31:13 <Ampera> Because if someone tells me to do it, that doesn't help me.
31:23 <Halcyon> But.... if it's something you want?
31:27 <Ampera> If someone makes and helps me think why I want it, what am I changing, and what is the point, that helps me.
31:34 <Ampera> It's not that simple Halcyon, and that's the problem.
31:53 <Ampera> Let me put an analogy forward.
31:57 <Ampera> Do you want an amputation?
32:01 <Halcyon> No
32:01 <Ampera> Leg or arm
32:05 <Ampera> Alright
32:12 <Ampera> Now what if someone came to you saying they have a problem.
32:21 <Ampera> They feel uncomfortable having one of their arms attached to them and want it removed.
32:38 <Ampera> It haunts their every waking moment, and they want surgery for it to be removed
33:01 <Ampera> Would it be a sane, decent, moral thing to do to, just because they /want/ it, to just say yes, you should do it?
33:15 <Ampera> Or would it not be better to try to understand why that is, have them understand the source better, and see if that really is the solution.
33:37 <Halcyon> I think so, particularly if the argument was that compelling and it's affecting their mental health.
33:52 <Halcyon> Obvious it's not just a matter of "OK, let's go get it done..."
33:58 <Ampera> Now what if it were someone else's arm?
34:00 <Halcyon> Well yes of course
34:02 <Ampera> What if it was more than an arm?
34:08 <Ampera> What if they didn't feel like they should be alive anymore?
34:26 <Halcyon> The underlying cause needs to be determined, of course it does, but what if that cause for you is because you're Trans?
34:40 <Ampera> That's not good enough.
34:46 <Halcyon> Well I personally believe voluntary euthanasia should be a thing
34:49 <Halcyon> We're slowly getting there
35:00 <Ampera> Voluntary euthanasia is already a thing.
35:04 <Ampera> It's called killing yourself
35:06 <Ampera> suicide
35:22 <Halcyon> Suicide is not normally considered to be euthanasia
35:25 <Ampera> I'm not talking grandma in her 90's on death's row, can't walk nor talk
35:31 <Halcyon> There are two separate concepts
35:34 <Ampera> Voluntary euthanasia is suicide.
35:36 <Halcyon> No, I understand
35:39 <damian> urmum is a concept
35:43 <Ampera> It is the ending of a life on your own volition.
35:46 <Halcyon> Yes, I get it
36:13 <Halcyon> And as I said, I agree with it
36:13 <Ampera> My point is that gender reassignment surgery is a permanent, irreversible, dangerous, poorly understood, and socially damning solution to my problem
36:20 <Halcyon> Yes, it is
36:35 <Ampera> and while I am not ruling it out, I am looking for someone who is willing to help me explore it, to make me prove not only to them, but myself that I should have it.
37:34 <Halcyon> This is what a good professional should be doing. What you're saying is exactly what happens here.
37:34 <Ampera> Halcyon, but they don't.
37:34 <Ampera> They might listen a bit, give you some pointers.
37:34 <Ampera> However they will diagnose you, not understand you.
37:34 <Ampera> They will say you have gender dysphoria, line up for treatment.
37:34 <Halcyon> Which is a shame. As I said, I won't pretend to understand how it works in your country
37:38 <T3sl4> well, on a completely unrelated subject
37:41 <T3sl4> i'm back from my walk :)
37:43 <Ampera> This is how it works everywhere as far as I am aware.
37:50 <Ampera> I have no reason to believe it doesn't.
37:50 <T3sl4> and i've got hot italian sausage in the frying pan :)
37:59 <Halcyon> But surely there is *someone* out there who is doing things "properly". Not just, take a ticket, wait in line at the deli counter.
38:09 <Halcyon> Aw I wish I could nibble your sausage T3sl4
38:18 <Halcyon> My experience differs Ampera
38:21 <Ampera> There are people out there, but they are often harassed.
38:21 * T3sl4 shows Halcyon his meat
38:39 <Halcyon> It sounds like what you're asking for is exactly what goes on for the most part.
38:45 <Ampera> A therapist who says that a person who claims they are trans should not perform gender reassignment surgery would be immediately cashiered
38:56 <Ampera> and that is exactly what I want.
39:21 <Ampera> Oh sure, I can go to a church, religious professionals would tell me that, but they wouldn't be willing to help me come to either conclusion, they are only the polar opposite.
39:23 <Halcyon> Yes, so let me find out for you and get back to you. Otherwise, hopping on a plane to Australia is my only other suggestion
39:31 <Halcyon> ROFL, Churches
39:38 <Halcyon> Biggest waste of space and money
39:48 <Halcyon> Even moreso than sports
39:50 <Ampera> The only person I know of who might be able to help me is Michael Bailey.
40:09 <Ampera> He's a professor (or perhaps former professor) at Northwestern University in Chicago. The issue is that there is no easy way for me to get to him in order to talk.
41:02 <Ampera> Sorry for going nuts on you all the time Halcyon, but what I say is true, I know it is.
41:03 <Halcyon> Well as I said, I'll try to find out for you and get back to you. It's about all I can do for you from here.
41:15 <Ampera> Australia I'm not sure, it's far away, but I don't believe them to be any different.
41:27 <Halcyon> I don't mind at all, I've said before you should get things off your chest more often and there are people, even on here, who are willing to listen and help.
41:43 <Halcyon> Yes, as I also said Ampera, you need to leave your assumptions at the door
41:48 <Halcyon> It just clouds your judgement
41:57 <Ampera> It's not an assumption, I know that it's true.
42:05 <Ampera> I'm willing to be proven wrong and take experiments to that effect.
42:06 <Halcyon> How many experts have you been to see and spoken to?
42:11 <Ampera> None.
42:19 <Ampera> However I still know I am correct.
42:24 <Halcyon> I disagree
42:34 <Ampera> It is because I have seen nobody that I want to start trying
42:45 <Ampera> I still believe I am correct.
42:49 <Halcyon> You need to be willing to listen and analyse advice given to you, especially since you literally have no experience in this yourself.
42:56 <Halcyon> I've understand if you've been to see 20 people.
43:10 <Ampera> I have experience in this, I understand the situation at hand and the greater world's relation to this issue.
43:13 <Ampera> I understand it all too well.
43:20 <Halcyon> Yes of course you believe you're correct.
43:36 <Ampera> As I said, I am willing to be proven wrong.
44:04 <Halcyon> You might understand bits of it, but so far your understanding has not helped you, which suggests to me you need to set aside your preconceived ideas and thoughts and seek further advice and help.
44:15 <Ampera> Actually it has helped me.
44:28 <Ampera> It's helped me avoid the radicalism within the "community", and the politics that go along with it.
44:40 <Halcyon> OK great, but that hasn't helped the root cause
44:42 <Ampera> It's helped me question everything around me.
45:18 <Ampera> It still has, I understand more about my issue by talking to generic people and exploring it myself than I would have if I followed the advice of the first professional I consulted.
45:23 <Halcyon> If you "question", you need to be prepared to listen and take on the answer, regardless of what you assume the answer to be.
45:41 <Halcyon> There is no point in asked a question if you're just going to form your own opinion anyway.
45:47 <Halcyon> *asking
45:54 <Ampera> The point of questioning is to view all of the answers people will give you
45:56 <Ampera> and then select the best one.
46:00 <Halcyon> Yes
46:15 <Halcyon> Which is what I'm saying. But to do that effectively, you need to set aside your assumptions.
46:49 <Ampera> I will set aside nothing. I need to be convinced that my "assumptions" are incorrect.
47:12 <Halcyon> Well, you need to come to the party. No one is going to force you into thinking something you don't want to think.
47:23 <Ampera> I'm ready to do that.
47:31 <Halcyon> You can't convince a flat-earther that the world is a sphere.
47:43 <Ampera> I'm not a flat earthy.
47:46 <Ampera> *eather
47:50 <Ampera> whatever
48:07 <Ampera> However I have beliefs that I do not believe are incorrect, and will not drop them until someone can prove them incorrect.
48:29 <Halcyon> I know, but your thought process seems to be similar. You are very set in your ways for various reasons. You need to be able to let some of that go and question your own knowledge. No one is going to forcefully do it for you.
48:54 <Ampera> Isn't questioning my own knowledge exactly what I am doing by insisting that I find someone who will purposefully disagree with me?
49:20 <Halcyon> Sort of, but on the other hand you're basically saying you know better and everyone is shit.
49:39 <Ampera> I am saying is I think everyone is going to try to sell me a cure, not help me with my issue
49:51 <Ampera> and I am willing to be proven wrong, exactly by trying to find people
50:03 <Halcyon> They might try, but they aren't going to force you into that their. You can simply say "no".
50:11 <Halcyon> *either
50:42 <Ampera> Of course I can say no
51:03 <Halcyon> So I don't see the issue of going to speak to someone?
51:14 <Ampera> Because I want to have the best chance of finding the best person with the fewest tries possible.
51:27 <Halcyon> Well, sometimes that just isn't possible.
51:37 <Halcyon> If everything was that easy, things would work out a lot better for all of us.
52:09 <Halcyon> But, like I said, I'll speak to some people and see what I can come up with and get back to you
52:34 <Ampera> Alright.
52:46 <Halcyon> Anyway I have to go, I need to drive down to Canberra
52:51 * Halcyon hugs Ampera
53:02 <Ampera> Enjoy your welsh capital
53:03 <Ampera> ciao
54:48 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Connection closed
46:07 <DHess_US> Damnit, well of course the bright red USB ports are not the USB 3 ports.
55:51 <rust_collector> I have a laptop, where I tend to plug anything usb into the ethernet port. never works
04:36 <DHess_US> Testing out an UASP USB 3.0 to SATA enclosure with an SSD. It seems to work well.
05:00 <DHess_US> Essentially I wanted a big bad flash drive that I can perhapse trust.
05:46 <DHess_US> I think UASP mode pushed 25MB/s USB 2 to 30MB/s so hardly worth it.
44:18 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: So much for those cheap ebay VGA to HDMI converters for the arcade machine. And no it's not playing multiplayer pong https://t.co/b2Lxzelq4X
47:35 <DHess_US> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3K26796
47:48 <DHess_US> 25 or 30 MB/s on USB 2 depending on if UASP is used and 250 to 300 MB/s on USB 3.0
56:24 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Winner winner chicken dinner Streaming arcade cabinet now up and running. Had to tweak the capture card output settings https://t.co/7S8XaUKhnA
59:00 Join: Guest|46870 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
59:29 Quit: Guest|46870 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
18:34 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Might go live on EEVblog2 in a few minutes to check my if my streaming arcade cabinet works...
29:40 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Live arcade machine https://t.co/SaGg0oe3f1
30:40 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I'm LIVE now! https://t.co/0V4sFmyHFK
48:44 Join: Guest|18927 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
49:53 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:24 <WebChatUser> Testing testing ome two tree
51:28 Quit: Guest|18927 ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
54:05 Quit: WebChatUser ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
53:02 <ServalSpots> Looks like the n and h still need more work
08:38 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! EEVblog LIVE Arcade https://t.co/ABAMAR6Wke
13:46 <steve30> I slept well
24:43 * steve30 pets ServalSpots 
27:31 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Because people we desperate to know... https://t.co/dmceLiUDyf
39:03 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Inside one of those cheap VGA to HDMI adapters Anyone got a datasheet for the chipset? BTW, a company I worked at designed a VGA to LCD converter back in 1994, it took a pizza box sized board of chips to do less than this does. https://t.co/tAnLYLG2Du
01:11 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
00:48 * T3sl4 hugs steve30
11:23 <steve30> hi T3sl4
11:55 <T3sl4> i should make a coffee
12:06 <steve30> I've just been out for one
12:20 <T3sl4> :)
38:50 <DHess_US> I had to give up coffee. :(
40:38 <steve30> aww
40:57 <DHess_US> Coffee every day was giving my migrains every day.
41:24 <T3sl4> tea?
52:20 <DHess_US> It just isn't the same.
53:39 <T3sl4> a shame, but better than the alternative, that's for sure :/
16:01 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: They don't write'em like they used to https://t.co/5mQxHyeOjq
49:33 Join: WebChatUser ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
50:19 Quit: WebChatUser ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
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