// #eevblog — 2019-04-17
1996
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
01:01:26 Join: DogWomble ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:04:00 Quit: DogWomble_ ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
02:35:53 <T3sl4> https://www.reddit.com/r/SuddenlyGay/comments/bdt3o4/what_does_he_really_want/ i know some bi/pan people, and i gotta say, this would fit them perfectly
03:01:09 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:04:41 <Ampera> :/ I guess
03:04:45 <Ampera> and pan is just woke bisexualism
03:05:56 * T3sl4 hands Ampera a very sexy cast iron frying pan
03:06:06 * Ampera passes it onto DHess_US
03:06:34 <DHess_US> I already have a cast iron pan. I used it this morning for bacon and eggs.
03:06:40 <DHess_US> I'm glad YouTube was able to set that straight. https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2BATHXRx--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/akq6iaaxb7fsmmu6oiad.jpg
03:06:47 <T3sl4> oh yessss talk dirty to me bby
03:06:55 <Ampera> lol yeah I saw that
03:07:08 * Ampera sprays T3sl4 with water, like the heathen he is
03:07:46 <T3sl4> you make me wet
03:07:47 <T3sl4> oh yea
03:25:02 Join: soulreap ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:53:50 Quit: joeedh_ ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
05:51:09 <Halcyon> Morning all
05:51:15 * Halcyon yawns
06:00:47 <Ampera> hi Halcyon
06:05:03 <damian> good morning friends
06:05:16 <Ampera> oh thanks for not saying it to me :P
06:05:42 <damian> you're my friend!
06:05:45 * damian snuggles Ampera
06:06:16 <damian> oh man is it raining
06:06:27 <Ampera> No it's quite sunny here
06:06:41 <damian> what state are you in again?
06:07:22 <Ampera> New York
06:10:12 <damian> i forget, is new york city in new york state?
06:17:39 <Ampera> Yes.
06:17:59 <Ampera> I myself live near the capitol of New York
07:20:48 <coppice> T3sl4: I know pan people who are really wok
07:23:03 <coppice> York City is in Yorkshire, so why isn't New York City in New Yorkshire?
07:30:06 <T3sl4> and why isn't any of them completely surrounded by puddings?
08:15:05 <DHess_US> Whoa, don't see that everyday. https://youtu.be/uH9aX5evxqU?t=730
08:26:31 <coppice> If this was a $100M project, privately funded, who was paying, and why?
08:33:28 <DHess_US> The Israeli moon langer?
08:39:06 <coppice> yes
09:02:04 <DHess_US> Eh, look it up. I actually didn't know it crashed until recently.
09:03:19 <DHess_US> "Its total budget for the mission is estimated at US$95 million, provided by Israeli billionaire Morris Kahn and other philanthropists, as well as the Israel Space Agency (ISA)."
09:03:59 <DHess_US> "Morris Kahn is the chairman of the public board[27] and donated US$27 million to the project."
09:40:23 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
11:46:00 Join: Damo ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:46:34 <Damo> hello hello.. hope i'm welcome here.. electronic student, audio engineer.
11:48:11 <Damo> I was wondering if someone would be able to help me with a component value. I'm rebuilding a bass amp and its got 1960's components. I can see what looks like a resistor but i'm not sure and also not sure what wattage rating it would be. Would anyone be willing to take a quick look at this .jpg and give me some advice or point me in the right direc
11:48:11 <Damo> tion.. cheers
12:00:02 Quit: Damo ([email protected]) Quit: AustNet Web Chat - https://webchat.austnet.org/
12:54:51 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Fire alarm, again... #WasntMe
13:02:55 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Two truck job https://t.co/JxhUx5lbBw
13:11:59 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: That was Australia's biggest ice skating rink https://t.co/BW0wbhM3dI
13:36:08 Join: Guest|42075 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
13:59:51 Quit: Guest|42075 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
14:48:44 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: Central banks are buying more gold than any time in the last 50 years. You might want to get some yourself, just say'n. #DontGetYourFinancialAdviceFromAnEngineer #NotNewNews https://t.co/QfLanFu7wD
15:04:08 Quit: Ampera ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
15:04:11 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
15:14:58 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:15:29 Join: Ampera ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:15:39 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o Ampera
15:17:10 Nick: EEVBlog is now known as EEVBlog1
15:18:33 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: RT @Ben_Domensino: If NSW registers above-average mean temperatures in April, May and June, the state's run of warmer than average months w…
16:27:04 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: My photo of #NotreDame from 2006 https://t.co/slb39ccKZv
17:17:59 Join: Bluenote ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
17:20:29 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: EEVblog #1202 – LCD Repair Redux https://t.co/YKx3mOKDqs
17:47:42 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: Slightly overkill battery charger... https://t.co/SZSQ6H1aRT
18:01:23 Join: AndrevS ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:06:24 <Halcyon> I feel so much better after that nap
18:15:08 Join: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:15:08 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ThunderSqueak
18:15:46 <ThunderSqueak> o.o//
18:30:20 <Halcyon> Hey ThunderSqueak
18:30:27 <Halcyon> Long time no chat
18:31:51 <ThunderSqueak> yeah, been busy
18:32:14 <ThunderSqueak> how are you Halcyon ?
18:37:19 <Halcyon> Yeh not too bad
18:37:22 <Halcyon> Can't complain
18:37:48 <ThunderSqueak> *nod*
18:37:49 <steve30> i'm going out for a coffee in a bit
18:52:30 <damian> MAN
18:52:32 <damian> I CANT BE BOTHERED
18:52:43 <Halcyon> What are you doing damian ?
18:52:48 <Halcyon> Hey Steve!
18:52:58 <damian> i have to go to dodgeball
18:53:05 <damian> i want to, but i just can't be bothered!
18:53:13 <Halcyon> Daylight savings
18:53:15 <damian> it means i have to put clothes on, and it's so hard finding clothes
18:53:19 <Halcyon> Everything is so dark :(
18:54:15 <von> if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball
18:54:22 * von throws a wrench at damian
18:58:09 <steve30> I'm not really in the mood for going out
18:58:43 <Halcyon> Why not Steve? Is it cold?
18:59:10 <steve30> nah, its warming up here now
18:59:21 <steve30> I'm just in the mood for staying at home :)
19:02:53 <Halcyon> Fair enough :)
19:03:06 <Halcyon> I've had a headache all day, got home, had a nap, feel so much better
19:04:17 <steve30> yay sleep :)
19:04:26 <Halcyon> Yup :)
19:13:52 * T3sl4 bothers Halcyon
19:14:47 <Halcyon> Oooer :)
19:14:59 <Halcyon> You can bother me any time T3sl4
19:16:24 <T3sl4> :P
19:27:20 <K> hello
19:27:48 <Halcyon> Howdy K
19:28:50 <K> yes.
19:59:37 Quit: ThunderSqueak ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
20:02:04 Quit: Bluenote ([email protected]) EOF from client
21:13:18 <steve30> meow
21:14:57 <K> yes.
21:15:27 * T3sl4 scritches the steve30
21:15:51 <steve30> :)
21:26:58 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:27:12 <Nothing\> lol i think i found my new favorite chemical name
21:28:05 <T3sl4> you arsole
21:28:34 <Nothing\> there's a series of compounds called nitrotetrazoles, or NTZs and you can have different metals on them, like sodium makes NaNTZ, or silver makes AgNTZ... then there's copper which according to this paper makes... DBX-1 but going by the naming scheme it should be CuNTZ
21:29:12 <Nothing\> it makes a fine explosive too apparently
21:29:28 <Nothing\> arsole's a pretty funny one too
21:29:56 <Nothing\> there's actually a drug called thebacon, a derivative of thebaine which is a non-opioid found in opium
21:30:14 <T3sl4> :)
21:30:27 <Nothing\> or there's narcotine, that was amusing
21:31:07 <T3sl4> it makes me want to sing of atomic mass units
21:31:11 <T3sl4> amu-sing :P
21:31:35 <Nothing\> lol
21:31:46 <Ampera> hi Nothing\
21:31:52 <T3sl4> hi Ampera
21:31:58 <Ampera> you're not Nothing\
21:32:02 <Ampera> but hi to you too
21:32:23 <T3sl4> :(
21:32:25 <T3sl4> :)
21:32:28 <Nothing\> i found this great channel last night called extractions and fire, he's got a lot of really cool syntheses on there, he even made "azidoazide azide" which sci-show claimed was the most sensitive explosive ever, it was less sensitive than touch powder
21:32:36 <Nothing\> hey Ampera how's it going
21:32:43 <Ampera> dentist's appointment
21:32:44 <Nothing\> this place is unusually lively for being so early
21:33:03 <Nothing\> ah that sucks, i was traumatized at the dentist as a child so the only way i can go is on a LOT of ativan and nitrous oxide
21:33:09 <Ampera> Not really, the activity goesa ll over the place.
21:33:21 <Ampera> I never had any bad experiences with the dentist
21:33:24 <Nothing\> actually i see a specialist tomorrow to see if i can just get knocked out cuz i've got literally oodles of work that needs to be done
21:33:28 <Ampera> all I ever got was a load of rotting baby teeth pulled
21:33:59 <Nothing\> i had a filling done when i was 3 or so but the lidocaine didn't take, so i felt everything but they thought i was just being fussy so they continued doing work
21:34:07 <Ampera> because the logic goes that I brushed regularly when I was a child, and my teeth fucking flew out of my mouth, and now that I'm an adult I don't even own a toothbrush and haven't brushed my teeth in a hilarious amount of time, and every time I go I get complimented on how well I take care of them
21:34:40 <Nothing\> then after that i wouldn't let them touch me so they sent me to a specialist, and what did he do that was so specialized? why he had his assistants hold me down while he forcibly did work on me, which was very much as i imagine it's like to be raped or be subjected to human experimentation
21:34:58 <Nothing\> obviously not as bad, but i imagine the mental feeling would be similar
21:35:22 <Ampera> Well I have to ride a bike there
21:35:25 <Nothing\> yeah i'm the same way, i never brushed that well but my teeth are falling apart faster than my dentist can put them back together
21:35:26 <Ampera> and my legs do not feel amazing
21:35:43 <Ampera> Not me, my teeth are totally fine
21:35:57 <Ampera> and while I'm of a mind they won't stay that way, it's hard to fix a problem when you don't have any issues with that problem at all
21:36:10 <Nothing\> i've always had very muscular legs cuz i have this extremely restless feeling all the time that makes me bounce my knees up and down almost constantly, so it's like i do thousands of calf raises every day
21:36:49 <Nothing\> oh yeah tell me about it, it's so human nature to wait to fix a problem until it causes unbearable suffering to whomever is in charge of fixing it
21:36:57 <Nothing\> ie anything to do with politics
21:37:01 <Ampera> suffering?
21:37:07 <Nothing\> for lack of a better word
21:37:14 <Ampera> they get fucking paid out the nose to put some baking soda in my mouth
21:37:14 <Nothing\> discomfort, negative feelings
21:37:27 <Nothing\> tooth whitening is a bad idea, especially if you already have problems
21:37:38 <Ampera> no, this is abrasive cleaning, not whitening
21:37:41 <Nothing\> it strips enamel off of your teeth, so it can cause issues with sensitivity and decay
21:37:52 <Nothing\> ah okay, i've never heard of baking soda being used like that at the dentist
21:37:59 <Nothing\> what is it one of those naturilistic dentists?
21:38:06 <Ampera> no, it's a normal dentist
21:38:12 <Nothing\> strange
21:38:15 <Ampera> they don't use that on me anymore, though
21:38:24 <Nothing\> though i know they use titanium dioxide for the same purpose in toothpastes
21:38:24 <Ampera> they just use the normal rotating stick with buffing compound
21:38:37 <Nothing\> i don't mind that, it's the fucking scaling i HATE
21:38:40 <Nothing\> HATE HATE HATE
21:38:45 <Nothing\> and i don't use that word lightly
21:39:08 <Nothing\> i can't stand anything metal touching my teeth, so having some lady scrape at my teeth with a pointy metal instrument for over an hour just makes me wanna jump out of my skin
21:39:18 <Ampera> I've never had an issue with that
21:39:22 <Ampera> what I always hated was the xray
21:39:40 <Nothing\> i'm not sure if it's a routine thing, i imagine it is, it's how they get rid of tartar buildup
21:39:42 <Ampera> because even though I have a fucking huge head, big mouth, the stupid xray clamp they stuff into my face was always painfully massive
21:39:47 <Ampera> and they had me bite down, it was annoying.
21:40:03 <Ampera> it is for me since I have enough plaque to fund an entire war memorial
21:40:21 <Nothing\> oh i hate that bit of film for the xray, it's always just big enough to scrape the hell out of your gums
21:40:22 <Ampera> gotten by the aforementioned lolbrushing
21:40:36 <Ampera> That's basically been my problem, my gums bleed and they sometimes complain about it
21:40:50 <Nothing\> the one time the hygenist bumped the frame on the x-ray film while i was biting on it, oh man did that suck
21:40:53 <Ampera> since I don't, you know, brush, they don't get tough so when they start scraping they start to bleed.
21:41:06 <Nothing\> lol that's alright, all of my teeth have been loose for pretty much my whole adult life
21:41:15 <Ampera> No these people are fairly nice and pretty good
21:41:32 <Nothing\> i figured i'd just let em rot until they fell out, but after a while of trying that it wound up being too painful
21:41:36 <Ampera> When I had surgery I refused nitrous and they only gave me Septocaine
21:41:44 <Ampera> and they did a good job, numbed everything for ages, it was great.
21:42:13 <Ampera> Eh, maybe one day I'm rich enough to afford a full set of ceramic implants
21:42:20 <Ampera> then I don't have to give a shit about it ever again
21:42:21 <Nothing\> man that'd be nice
21:42:28 <Nothing\> except for the whole drilling screws into your jaw thing
21:42:32 <Ampera> it would cost me enough to buy a new fucking house though
21:42:49 <Ampera> they do it somehow, so long as it's done and over when it's one and over
21:42:51 <Ampera> *done
21:43:02 <Nothing\> i wish i had that attitude
21:43:21 <Nothing\> lol the last 3 times i've gone in to have these teeth taken out that broke off till there was nothing left, i chickened out at the last minute
21:43:28 <Ampera> All I do is walk in, lie down, just mosy on in my mind while they do shit, and then walk out
21:43:51 <Ampera> Well I have a full set of healthy adult teeth, so I hope I can keep them that way.
21:44:06 <Nothing\> though last time was totally their fault, they knew i had anxiety and the anesthesiologist didn't give me anything until literally the very moment they were gonna put me under, then he gave me an oral ativan
21:44:17 <Nothing\> you know, cuz it's common sense that drugs taken orally kick in immediately
21:44:19 * Nothing\ rolls his eyes
21:44:46 <Ampera> at least he didn't make you give him a blowjob I guess
21:45:04 <Nothing\> i suspect they catheterized me last time i had surgery for my teeth lol
21:45:22 <Nothing\> they gave me a paralytic and really without a catheter, i woulda pissed myself, so i don't see how it would work otherwise
21:45:44 <Nothing\> i mean they even have to put you on a breathing machine cuz your diaphragm doesn't even work, so your bladder sure as hell won't
21:46:03 * Ampera stuffs Nothing\ into an iron lung
21:46:37 <Nothing\> although when i woke up, my nose was sore from being intubated, but as far as i remember, my manly bits felt fine, not that i was thinking about them at the moment but i'm sure i'd have noticed
21:47:17 <Nothing\> lol i watched a documentary about the last guy to be in an iron lung, it's awful he had to seek out specialized mechanics to build replacement parts for it cuz it was in such a bad state of disrepair from decades of use and nobody makes parts for them anymore
21:47:25 <Nothing\> i think he was a polio survivor
21:47:56 <Nothing\> he actually lived a relatively normal life too, as i recall he even got some sort of degree, maybe in law
21:48:19 <T3sl4> have to think you can do something like a CPAP machine or something
21:48:30 <Ampera> Paul Alexander
21:48:36 <Nothing\> was that his name?
21:48:42 <Ampera> Lawyer, spent much of his life in an iron lung
21:48:42 <EEVBlog1> 42, Ampera!
21:48:49 <Ampera> eyyy, I win
21:49:10 Nick: EEVBlog1 is now known as EEVBlog
21:49:14 Quit: EEVBlog ([email protected]) Changing hosts
21:49:14 Join: EEVBlog ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
21:49:18 <Nothing\> T3sl4: you would think so, i'm not sure why they didn't, you'd think it would be a lot more of an obvious solution, maybe in some cases the lung muscles are just too badly damaged
21:49:49 <Nothing\> CPAP i think just keeps the air pressure in your lungs lower, but the iron lung actually adjusts the pressure back and forth to compensate for your breathing and make it easier
21:50:07 <Ampera> thank god people in the modern day are smart enough to get vaccinated from such terrible diseases, and that modern cases of polio have been all wiped out
21:50:13 <Ampera> :`(
21:50:19 <Nothing\> or maybe it's the pressure itself that causes you to breathe, i'm not entirely sure how it works
21:50:42 <Nothing\> Ampera: that's the second time i've heard that this week but afaik the only 2 diseases to be declared wiped out by the WHO are small pox and rinderpest
21:50:53 <Ampera> no it was a joke
21:51:00 <Ampera> because as far as I heard, polio was back in the US
21:51:04 <Ampera> because of antivaxxers
21:51:07 <T3sl4> fuckers
21:51:18 <Nothing\> i'm sure there's a lot more to it, but yeah fuck them
21:51:56 <Ampera> you know this life saving medical technique that has been utilized and proven for around 200 years, and has helped stop the advent of incredibly terrible and rampant diseases?
21:52:07 <Ampera> yeah, wouldn't it be hip and fucking trendy if we just didn't give that to our kids?
21:52:15 <Nothing\> that's okay, on an episode of extractions and fire i saw last night he was talking about how chlorine dioxide is used "holistically" to treat everything from autism to AIDS to "all forms of cancer" as his reference stated
21:52:18 <Ampera> be fucking laughing all the way to the juvenile funeral procession.
21:52:38 <Ampera> don't forget to water it down
21:52:45 <Ampera> if you water it down enough, it might get more effective
21:52:52 <T3sl4> Nothing\: where "treat" means "make dead", yep :)
21:53:03 <Nothing\> Ampera: yeah but some guy forged a research paper on it in the UK and a porn star says he was right, so you know, those things trump real scientists
21:53:23 <Ampera> always trust your local whore
21:53:23 <T3sl4> trump is a great scientist, the best scientist
21:53:52 <Ampera> they say that men store all of their intelligence in their penis, and well, porn stars simply suck the smart right out of their dicks
21:53:55 <Nothing\> T3sl4: well he said it was homeopathic so my hope is that they dilute it to the point there's nothing left, but from how violently unstable chlorine dioxide is and how difficult it seemed to synthesize, at least for somebody without a BA in chemistry, i imagine they're probably just using bleach for something
21:54:30 <Nothing\> T3sl4: i've heard of hydrogen peroxide being used in a similar way, or people who take alkaline solutions because they believe it'll make their blood alkaline and somehow purify toxins out of them or something
21:54:51 <T3sl4> using chlorine in tap water is kind of homeopathic on the face, ironically enough
21:55:03 <T3sl4> difference being it's used just enough to be effective, not diluted further
21:55:13 <Ampera> I tell you what it is, it's not homeopathic, it's fucking homosexual.
21:55:18 <Ampera> gayest shit I've ever heard
21:55:20 <Nothing\> T3sl4: yeah but it's not meant to affect your own body's chemistry it's just meant to sterilize the water
21:55:23 * T3sl4 hugs Ampera
21:55:35 <Ampera> nnnnnnnnnnnnN I have to go in 30 minutes
21:55:41 <Ampera> I hate everything, everyone, and also everything.
21:55:53 <T3sl4> 24.
21:56:05 <steve30> I just had some nice curry for lunch :)
21:56:05 <T3sl4> The answer to hating everything everyone and everything
21:56:11 <Nothing\> actually i think fluoride in water is more akin to homeopathy, despite protests from people they put very little fluoride in water, especially compared to areas that get water that's fluorinated from natural mineral sources
21:56:24 <Ampera> EEVBlog, what is the answer to what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?
21:56:25 <EEVBlog> 42.
21:56:29 <Ampera> \o/
21:56:34 <Nothing\> steve30: damn curry would really dit the spot, i haven't had a good curry in ages
21:56:43 <Nothing\> actually one thing i've been craving is some biryani
21:56:48 <Nothing\> with raisins and cashews
21:57:53 * Ampera throws a https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/310478241989263371/568043886430257175/2019-04-16.png at Nothing\
21:57:56 <Nothing\> man i think i'm addicted to this hot shots golf game i got on ps3, i spnet practically the whole weekend playing it
21:58:04 <T3sl4> KITTY!
21:58:08 <Nothing\> Ampera: you know this'll mark the first time i've ever been on discord
21:58:20 <Ampera> It's literally just their image CDN, but ok
21:58:27 <Nothing\> daww
21:58:41 <Nothing\> Ampera: did you see the cat picture i ilinked to the other day?
21:58:46 <Ampera> no
21:58:51 <Nothing\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cat_demonstrating_static_cling_with_styrofoam_peanuts.jpg
21:59:01 <Nothing\> i found it on the wiki page for static so it caught me off guard lol
21:59:14 <Ampera> kitchen
22:00:51 <Ampera> anyways ciao
22:00:58 <Nothing\> i've been thinking about so-called death capapitors lately, i'm wondering if capacitors are really as dangerous as people make them out to be, cuz i was working out the time constant for say a 200uf cap at 400v discharging through a person and i'm still not sure what a typical human resistance is, but assuming a low figure of 10kohm, i still got a time constant of a couple of seconds
22:01:05 <Nothing\> Ampera: good luck man, hope it's easy on ya
22:02:03 <T3sl4> Nothing\: 10s of ms will do it, so...
22:02:24 <Nothing\> ms?
22:02:29 <T3sl4> milliseconds
22:02:33 <Nothing\> lol
22:02:35 <Nothing\> that's what i thought
22:02:59 <Nothing\> i've also heard anecdotes of people in uni charging caps to a few hundred V and tossing it to their lab partner as a gag
22:04:29 <Nothing\> still that same 200uf 400v cap has about 16 joules in it, so averaged over 10 seconds, that's like the equivalent energy of 1.6 amps
22:04:38 <Nothing\> er no, 16 amps is it?
22:04:59 <Nothing\> er no that's total, not average sorry
22:05:04 <Nothing\> too early to think :P
22:06:12 <Nothing\> i find it amazing how little energy it takes to kill you with electricity though, barely enough to light an LED can cause fatal arrhythmias
22:08:51 <Nothing\> damn these animals are getting expensive to feed, i've had 4 squirrels come by every day going through about a kilo of peanuts a week, lol and if i don't put any out they'll come right up to my patio door, put a paw on the window and give me puppydog eyes until i put more out, but now there's a murder of crows coming by too, and a blue jay started joining them, it's crazy how much these guys go through
22:09:47 <T3sl4> that's why you don't feed the animals
22:10:07 <Nothing\> lol i know, one of these days i'm gonna leave the door opened and the squirrels are gonna come in and raid my pantry
22:10:43 <Nothing\> and i don't even wanna think how it'd be if the raccoons got wind of this food source... or skunks
22:10:53 <K> or bears
22:11:05 <Nothing\> lol they actually have polar bears here in ontario
22:11:23 <Nothing\> way way way the hell up north of 60, but they're here
22:11:24 <K> goodnight then eh
22:12:14 <Nothing\> i'm south of toronto though so nothing like that here, not really a lot of wildlife in this area except the classic animals that thrive in urban areas
22:12:32 <Nothing\> though we do have rattlesnakes and the occassional black widow
22:12:42 <K> sounds like australia
22:12:58 <Nothing\> lol nah, everything is trying to kill you in australia
22:12:59 <EEVBlog> 42, Nothing\!
22:13:07 <Nothing\> everything...
22:13:10 <Nothing\> hrm
22:13:14 <Nothing\> that was random
22:13:40 <Nothing\> Ivanhoe is the story of a russian farmer and his tool.
22:16:23 <Nothing\> seems that 5nm chips are coming out soon, is there even any point to giving the processes node names like that anymore? everything i've read on it says they basically abandoned all conventions and use it for whatever marketing purpose they can find rather than it relating to the size of anything in the chips anymore
22:18:02 <K> isn't 4nm the limit?
22:19:33 <Nothing\> i'm not sure, i know they're down to the level where transistors are only a few dozen atoms across though
22:19:45 <T3sl4> atom is about 0.2nm
22:20:17 <coppice> K 4nm is about the limit of current strategies, but its not a physical limit
22:20:22 <Nothing\> i never got why instead of making them more dense, why not make the chips bigger, is it a power dissipation issue on account of the non-linear ratio of volume:surface area when you scale the size of things?
22:20:38 <Nothing\> coppice: i'd imagine finfets probably gave a lot of wiggle room to that figure
22:20:45 <coppice> Nothing\: they do get bigger, as well as more dense
22:21:03 <Nothing\> ah that explains it
22:21:39 <coppice> but power, cost and other factors constrain how far people go
22:22:17 <Nothing\> i've also heard that past a certain frequency, the current becomes more like an EM wave
22:22:35 <coppice> the differential expansion of firing up one among 4 or 8 cores must put some serious mechanical stress on the die
22:22:39 <Nothing\> which is one reason i've heard cited for why clock speeds haven't increased
22:22:59 <Nothing\> oh wow yeah i didn't even think of that, and on those tiny little bond wires
22:23:23 <Nothing\> so much for no moving parts lol
22:23:38 <coppice> clock speeds haven't increased because deeply pipelined cores work poorly on general purpose code. This is why the Pentium 4 failed
22:24:15 <T3sl4> i wonder how that strain affects operation of the chip
22:24:35 <T3sl4> more of an analog thing, i wonder if it can ever be bad enough to affect logic though
22:25:43 <Nothing\> T3sl4: one interesting aspect of CS i've found is how common errors are given the extremely large amount of discrete units that are being worked with, and how important error correction is in making electronics work properly
22:26:25 <Nothing\> single event upsets are a particularly interesting form of error, where a cosmic ray causes a bombardment of radiation that hits the die in just the right way to flip a random bit
22:26:27 <T3sl4> sooner or later, we'll have to deal with nondeterministic computing at scale
22:26:40 <Nothing\> you mean like quantum computing?
22:26:56 <coppice> I think he means Microsoft's bug density
22:27:00 <Nothing\> ah lol
22:27:26 <T3sl4> i mean more that if we put a trillion active logic gates in a stack of chips, errors are inevitable
22:27:53 <EEVBlog> New EEVBlog Tweet: I did it. I found the worst sci-fi movie in history. I don't know how they kept a straight face shooting this. https://t.co/uDshQ0iCWH
22:28:04 <T3sl4> that will lead nicely into the techniques needed for quantum though
22:28:16 <coppice> in about 1980 the electronics industry seemed to be hitting a wall of soft error issues. since them we've done really well circumventing them
22:28:51 <Nothing\> coppice: i've heard that redundant parity checking really made a huge difference
22:28:52 <K> cmos?
22:29:13 <T3sl4> SOI
22:29:13 <Nothing\> rather than just parity checking a whole byte, they switched to parity checking multiple overlapping portions of each byte
22:29:37 <Nothing\> i dunno when that was implemented, i just know it made a big difference
22:29:55 <Nothing\> i would imagine probably in the 70's when ICs allowed for the extra resources needed for it
22:30:20 <coppice> most of the improvement has just been learning how the majority of soft errors occur, and putting measures in place to reduce their frequency by massive amounts
22:30:41 <Nothing\> stop it at its source, probably the best strategy for any problem
22:31:01 <coppice> e.g. not using ceramic packages with a high rate of alpha particle emission :)
22:31:10 <Nothing\> lol that was a thing?
22:31:19 <coppice> yes
22:31:24 <Nothing\> although you wouldn't think alpha particles would penetrate deeply enough to cause problems
22:31:40 <T3sl4> microns
22:31:44 <coppice> they don't need to penetrate them the ceramic and die are adjacent
22:31:48 <Nothing\> then again the stuff that matters is right on the surface of the die isn't it, and the package is basically right next to it
22:31:53 <Nothing\> yeah exactly
22:32:20 <Nothing\> yeah i guess if just taking a picture of a die is enough to make it freak out...
22:32:26 <coppice> i super thin coat of nylon over the die, before adding the ceramic package worked wonders
22:32:31 <Nothing\> a la raspberry pi 2
22:32:52 <Nothing\> that's a really elegant solution
22:34:39 <Nothing\> i read the other day it takes something like 11-12 weeks to make an IC, it's crazy to think how cheap they are considering that, or that there are companies that still make ICs that are practically obsolete like 7400/4000 stuff, it's a wonder they're profitable, though i'd expect those sorts of chips would take a lot less time to make
22:34:57 <T3sl4> helps when you can make a million at a time
22:35:17 <Nothing\> that's what i was thinking, volume is the key with a lot of things in electronics like that it seems
22:35:35 <Nothing\> or i guess any manufacturing, really
22:37:24 <Nothing\> it's fun to imagine what future archaeologists would think of this period, when we suddenly go from writing everything to seemingly nothing from their point of view on account of the fact that no data would probably survive much past our civilization and even if it did it would be impossible for them to figure out how to retrieve it or figure out the electronics left behind
22:39:07 <Nothing\> when i was reading about the different ways they were proposing of warning future civilations about radioactive waste storage sites, it reminded me a lot of ancient curses and king tut's tomb, i mean to anyone who doesn't know what radiation is, that's probably what they would think it was if a future civilization ever stumbled across radioactive waste storage
22:39:53 <T3sl4> difference is that radiation will actually make you very sick, fairly quickly, unlike curses
22:41:30 <Nothing\> it depends on the dose, in some cases it can take some time for symptoms to show up, or even if you don't get acute symptoms you still get the increased risk of cancer, but i have heard of cases of severe radiation sickness where people vomited immediately after exposure
22:42:21 <Nothing\> i can never remember the name of the sub, but that russian sub where the nuclear reactor melted down, the workers who went into the reactor room to stop it getting worse showed symptoms of sickness immediately after they came out
22:44:27 <Nothing\> i think the poor guys who were killed by the demon core had a similar reaction
22:45:09 <Nothing\> they were at least exposed to enough radiation that they saw cerenkov radiation flash in their retinas
23:54:54 <coppice> Nothing\: volume has very different effects on different industries. Semiconductors needs big volumes, but when you exceed the capacity of one fab, the investment needed to increase production just a little is billions
Search this day's buffer: