#d&d - 2013-11-07 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2013-11-07

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« 2013-11-06 2013-11-08 »
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28:20 <Darkkapow> so i hear mekkis that you didn't run our table of siege properly
28:32 <Darkkapow> you neglected to do something
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31:43 <Philderbeast> afternoono
34:55 <Ulzef> anyone wanna runa  1-5 so i can get 1 more game on my 4 so i can play him tomorrow and not have to out of tier ulzef
35:37 <Philderbeast> i can if you get the players
37:33 <Ulzef> avatar brun mek any 1-5's you can do?
37:36 <Ulzef> steven?
37:41 <Ulzef> kapow?
45:19 <Darkkapow> steven is your best bet today ulzef
45:48 <Darkkapow> everyone atm is only running stuff I've played :( it sucks, the only time i see stuff I haven't played seems to come up when I'm gming XP
51:35 Damalon01 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
55:07 <Ulzef> lol
55:35 <Damalon01> hi all
15:09 <Philderbeast> can anyone think how a barkeep would have a hit dice+ wis modifier equaling or greater then 18.,....
15:22 <Philderbeast> in a level 1-2 encounter
17:52 <Damalon01> not really
17:58 <Damalon01> that wierd
18:14 <Damalon01> did you try to antagonize? or demoralize him?
25:16 <Philderbeast> i was trying to intimidate him into giving information
27:17 <Philderbeast> instead of him being scared enough to tell me stuff, i got kicked out of the tavern....
27:28 <Philderbeast> on a 27 intimidate :S
31:45 <Damalon01> hmmm interesting
32:10 <Damalon01> intiimidate can be unreliable, as in having unexpected effects
32:38 <Damalon01> but with a 27 you should have beaten the DC, no way you didnt
32:51 <Philderbeast> noting this is PFS (so RAW)
33:14 <Philderbeast> if i beat the DC they are helpfull and give me the info i want
33:21 <Damalon01> so i geuss it was a call of the GM that the guy would kick you out as an act of fear
33:42 <Damalon01> yeah thats what i woulda thought
34:17 <Philderbeast> if i failed i could see them being pissed and kicking me out....
34:18 <Damalon01> but if i was gming i might have given you the info you wanted but had consequences to the use of intimidate
34:23 <Philderbeast> but no way i failed
34:37 <Damalon01> yeah no way you failed
35:14 <Damalon01> unless the mod said specifically the intim check can never be successful
35:58 <Philderbeast> nope i have it and im prepping it for next week
36:40 <Philderbeast> although creative PCs might
36:41 <Philderbeast> propose using different skills to acquire the clues. As
36:41 <Philderbeast> GM, you should keep an open mind when players bring
36:41 <Philderbeast> these ideas up, especially if no one in the group is wellequipped
36:41 <Philderbeast> for making successful Diplomacy or Knowledge
36:43 <Philderbeast> (local) checks
36:47 <Philderbeast> thats straight from the nod
36:53 <Philderbeast> we had no face
37:30 <Philderbeast> the best modifier would could get on either of those two was +4.... vs my +13 intimidate
37:42 <Philderbeast> and the only character that had them wasent there at the time
37:44 <Damalon01> ahhh yeah so if the mod says that intim is an auto failure it just cuts out one more option to proceed in the story
39:09 <Philderbeast> that was the start of a bad night for me
40:08 <Philderbeast> that and a rouge NPC that apparently we could not see through his stealth even though he should have been at -13 on the dice....
40:45 <Damalon01> hmmmm who was the GM?
40:51 <Philderbeast> mekkis
41:01 <Damalon01> how do you know the rogue was at -13 stealth?
41:17 <Philderbeast> he has +7 on his stat block and was using sniper
41:21 <Philderbeast> thats a -20 modifer
41:23 <Damalon01> ahhhh
41:31 <Damalon01> yes it is
41:37 <Darkkapow> you where playing gods market gamble?
41:42 <Philderbeast> nope
41:48 <Philderbeast> shadows last stand 2
41:49 <Darkkapow> which mod?
42:19 <Darkkapow> you understand that every 10' away from him you take a -1 on your perception
42:22 <Darkkapow> cumulative
42:30 <Philderbeast> i was 30' max
42:49 <Philderbeast> and i wasent rolling particularly low....
43:16 <Philderbeast> noting a nat 20 only puts him at 7... and i was at 15ish for most of them
43:50 <Philderbeast> NICKLIST SCREEN
43:52 <Philderbeast> opps
44:35 <Darkkapow> There are a number of spells that do also affect stealth and sniping
45:35 <Philderbeast> there were no spells available to the NPC's in that encounter
45:56 <Philderbeast> 1 lvl 1 fighters and a lvl 2 rouge
46:30 <Philderbeast> i lie... detect undead... but i dont think thats helping
47:43 <Darkkapow> you also understand that specific kinds of cover etc also apply bonus's to stealth rolls
49:13 <Philderbeast> not RAW that i can find, and i have been looking, other then they need to have cover/concealment to be able to stealth
49:37 <Darkkapow> What lighting condition where you fighting in?
49:45 <Darkkapow> was it at night in shadowie illumination
49:54 <Darkkapow> or dark
49:58 <Philderbeast> night but well lit
50:05 <Darkkapow> did anyone in the party actually have dark vision?
50:06 <Philderbeast> afaik
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50:44 <Philderbeast> noting it wasent dark where he was... or where we were it doesnt matter
51:35 <Darkkapow> It doesn't say anywhere in the description what the light level is.
52:10 <Philderbeast> we were all working on the boat being light by its description in the faction notes
52:22 <Darkkapow> What I am trying to say is there are a large number of things that can alter the combat, you may not know what was present. IT does day it's a late hour.
52:35 <Darkkapow> Hence there is reason it would be dark and you would require light sources.
53:01 <Philderbeast> light not being avaliable never came up
53:18 <Philderbeast> we had plenty of light sources in the party
53:23 <Darkkapow> Perhaps you should of asked what the lighting conditions where then?
53:28 <Darkkapow> and if he was 30' away
53:34 <Darkkapow> none of them would of cast light onto him
53:53 <Philderbeast> the fact he was not taking the -20 was the issue
54:14 <Darkkapow> the fact your metagaming when you don't know fully what he was taking is the issue.
54:21 <Philderbeast> noting if it was dim light/dark we should have been taking miss chances
54:38 <Darkkapow> if it's dark and you don't have dark vision
54:41 <Darkkapow> too bad you can't see him
54:44 <Darkkapow> it's that simple
54:50 <Philderbeast> this only came up after the combat
54:53 <Darkkapow> unless you cast a light source onto him
54:55 <Philderbeast> when i started reading the mod
55:03 <Philderbeast> it was not dark how it was run
55:18 <Darkkapow> it says late at night in teh description exactly prior
55:23 <Darkkapow> that would idicate to me that it's dark
55:28 <Darkkapow> At this late hour
55:29 <Philderbeast> dim light means 20% miss chance
55:33 <Philderbeast> and that was never required
55:35 <Darkkapow> being the first 4 words in the description
55:46 <Philderbeast> so if that what he was using then it still was not run correctly
56:08 <Darkkapow> did i say dim light?
56:12 <Darkkapow> I said dark.
56:24 <Darkkapow> not low light
56:25 <Darkkapow> dark
56:37 <Philderbeast> then it would have been even worse for us
57:01 <Darkkapow> then perhaps you should thank mekkis for being kind
57:05 <Damalon01> how was th enemy rogue able to see in the dark?
57:11 <Darkkapow> he has darkvision
57:15 <Darkkapow> on his stat block
57:19 <Damalon01> ah ok
57:30 <Darkkapow> which also reinforces the fight would be taking place in the dark late at night
57:48 <Darkkapow> his crew even have dark vision to boot.
57:52 <Philderbeast> still something we would know about from other mechanics
58:06 <Damalon01> if the gm had mentioned it was dark im sure the pcs would have used a light, assuming they had one available. which promptly negates the light advamtage for the rogue.
58:23 <Darkkapow> damalon no it doesn't
58:27 <Darkkapow> it does at a certain range
58:30 <Philderbeast> but we would have known it was dark due to the miss chance
58:38 <Darkkapow> light eminates and lessens it's effect
58:54 <Darkkapow> which then you would be metagaming philder
58:56 <Philderbeast> if it was dark that would be fine.
59:15 <Philderbeast> how is it metagaming for your caracter to notice that its dark around him
59:19 <Darkkapow> if you are fighting in close quarters with a light source
59:21 <Darkkapow> no miss chance
59:22 <Philderbeast> its not something they could possibly NOT notice
59:27 <Damalon01> but to sneak attack you need to be 30' or closer and if they are far enough away that the light isnt helping to spot them then i seriously doubt that the enemy has LOS
59:30 <Darkkapow> you ahve a light source that provides 10' bright light
59:36 <Darkkapow> then reduces to shadowy x amount out
59:55 <Damalon01> torches are 20'
59:57 <Philderbeast> no one explicitly pulled a light sorce, so it would have had a miss chance
00:15 <Philderbeast> and the PC's would have know it was dark to light the place up
00:21 <Darkkapow> so then none of you had light source's
00:26 <Philderbeast> not out
00:27 <Darkkapow> you'd be relying completely on what was there
00:31 <Damalon01> indeed
00:31 <Philderbeast> but available
00:36 <Darkkapow> and if you didn't ask exactly where the lights on the ship where
00:54 <Philderbeast> again not something you could not have the players know
01:01 <Damalon01> the point Dark is that if the GM said it was dark the pcs would have knon to act on that info
01:14 <Philderbeast> and your characters would know that
01:22 <Philderbeast> so how is that a bad thing
01:24 <Damalon01> its unfair to hold that info back while simultaneously alloing the enemy to exploit it
01:28 <Darkkapow> once again i refer to the first 4 words of the description
01:33 <Darkkapow> At this late hour
01:46 <Darkkapow> if your character doesn't take dark from that or you don't
01:50 <Darkkapow> or you don't ask when that is said
01:55 <Darkkapow> that's you not inquiring
02:06 <Philderbeast> yea, so if he was using low light, the characters should have known that and been able to respond
02:08 <Darkkapow> the scenario has preficed the lighting with those 4 words
02:30 <Darkkapow> and did you respond by doing anything?
02:35 <Darkkapow> if you didn't that's your own fault.
02:37 <Damalon01> the GM has an obligation to be clear and concise with the info at hand, not disguise it behind four words at the start of a description (if he even gives you that)
03:08 <Darkkapow> the gm has an obligation to run as written
03:12 <Darkkapow> if you want to get technical
03:25 <Philderbeast> and there were lights on the gangway in that desctioption (withing 20' of where he was hiding)
03:32 <Darkkapow> I'm not saying mekkis did the exact right thing, I am saying perhaps next time ask more information
03:38 <Damalon01> true but its also sane and logical to point out the disadvantages of a given situation as hey occur
03:43 <Darkkapow> before you start metagaming and saying people are gming things wrong
04:02 <Darkkapow> GM's aren't here to baby you or spoon feed you.
04:03 <Philderbeast> regardless thats only one of the issues we had with the scenario.... and not the biggest by a long shot
04:12 <Darkkapow> grow up be a big boy and learn to ask questions for yourself
04:23 <Damalon01> Fark the gm is your eyes and ears, asking for more info everytime is like assuming your eyes and ears dont work
04:37 <Darkkapow> no it's using them
04:38 <Avatar> haha what's this about
04:39 <Darkkapow> to look around
04:40 <Damalon01> Dark
04:44 <Darkkapow> and gather information
04:57 <Philderbeast> the game i played last night was very badly GM'ed
05:05 <Damalon01> and im saying assuming i have to ask is assuming i have to turn on my eyes and ears!
05:08 <Philderbeast> and IMO GM mistakes led to us not completing the objectives
05:20 <Darkkapow> no it's not
05:23 <Darkkapow> your eyes and ears are on
05:27 <Damalon01> the gm should assume you see and hear anything that plainly obvious and highlight the info
05:29 <Darkkapow> thats how you got this description
05:38 <Darkkapow> At this late hour, the briny sea air of Almas’s wooden docks is
05:38 <Darkkapow> void of the daytime crowds of crew members bustling about.
05:38 <Darkkapow> Nearly a dozen ships are docked here, and several more are
05:38 <Darkkapow> anchored in the calm waters further from the shore. One ship
05:38 <Darkkapow> in particular still has lanterns hanging lit next to its gangway,
05:38 <Darkkapow> a shoddy wooden plank that connects the old ship to the dock.
05:38 <Darkkapow> Red letters scrawled on the side of the ship read “Sailswift,”
05:38 <Darkkapow> and several cloaked men move to and fro on the ship’s deck
05:38 <Darkkapow> with uncanny grace, shifting boxes of cargo about and going
05:38 <Darkkapow> below deck occasionally.
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05:44 <Darkkapow> that's your eyes and ears being on
05:45 <Damalon01>  not rely on a short description and then call it done!
05:58 <Darkkapow> if you want to turn your brain on too that's up to you
06:36 <Philderbeast> regardless of that... there were other issues that stopped us being able to finish it properly
06:46 <Darkkapow> such as?
06:48 <Philderbeast> like making players auto fail checks to get the information they needed
07:26 <Darkkapow> using intimidate?
07:37 <Philderbeast> apparently a 27 was not enought to make a barkeep talk to me and answer my questions
07:42 <Damalon01> that description doesnt highlight that its dark outside Dark, it says that its late and that some lanterns are in use. different people have different ideas of what 'late hour' is
08:09 <Darkkapow> because the scenario specifies the kinds of checks you ahve to make to get clues
08:14 <Darkkapow> intimidate is not one of them
08:46 <Philderbeast> although creative PCs might
08:47 <Philderbeast> propose using different skills to acquire the clues. As
08:49 <Philderbeast> GM, you should keep an open mind when players bring
08:49 <Philderbeast> these ideas up, especially if no one in the group is wellequipped
08:49 <Philderbeast> for making successful Diplomacy or Knowledge
08:51 <Philderbeast> (local) checks.although creative PCs might
08:53 <Philderbeast> propose using different skills to acquire the clues. As
08:56 <Philderbeast> GM, you should keep an open mind when players bring
08:58 <Philderbeast> these ideas up, especially if no one in the group is wellequipped
09:01 <Avatar> what exactly weren't you told about
09:02 <Philderbeast> for making successful Diplomacy or Knowledge
09:04 <Philderbeast> (local) checks.
09:17 <Philderbeast> we didnt get the intel to lead us where we should be going
09:25 <Avatar> what was the intel
09:58 <Philderbeast> has anyone not played it here? i dont want to soil it
10:00 <Philderbeast> if anyone hasent
10:12 <Damalon01> i havent but i dont care
10:19 <Avatar> what scenario is it
10:37 <Philderbeast> shadows last stand 2
10:44 <Avatar> played it
10:53 <Avatar> and GM'd it
11:50 <Darkkapow> If successful, the target gives you the information you
11:50 <Darkkapow> desire, takes actions that do not endanger it, or otherwise
11:50 <Darkkapow> offers limited assistance.
12:01 <Darkkapow> this in the intimidate rules may also be the reason as well
12:13 <Darkkapow> Offering limited assistance to you may have been the result as you where kicked out
12:23 <Darkkapow> it's a listing of possible outcomes
12:30 <Philderbeast> i was after information and it says that right there
12:39 <Damalon01> yes but he didnt get the info Dark
12:45 <Darkkapow> the operative word comes later as "or"
12:47 <Philderbeast> it does offer assistance... not kicks you out with nothing
13:04 <Philderbeast> so it offeres assistance... not give me nothing and tels me to get lost
13:05 <Darkkapow> kicking you out is limited assistance.
13:16 <Damalon01> no it isnt! its no help
13:18 <Darkkapow> It's not calling the guard.
13:22 <Damalon01> LOL
13:35 <Darkkapow> i consider being removed and not having the guard called on you as limited assistance.
13:42 <Avatar> intimidate is a bit tricky
13:45 <Philderbeast> that logic would only work if i had failed....
13:49 <Darkkapow> a number of scenario's straight up end and you fail if the guard is called
14:05 <Damalon01> Dark you are definately interpretting things to be as diffecult as possible for the players
14:19 <Philderbeast> when the scenario says not to do that....
14:25 <Darkkapow> ok dama lets go back to your logic you like.
14:40 <Damalon01> sure
14:41 <Darkkapow> If someone comes into your store and threatens you, you either call the guard or kick them out if possible.
14:47 <Damalon01> no
14:48 <Darkkapow> is that not completely logical?
14:53 <Avatar> was this when you were doing the investigation?
14:56 <Damalon01> i cooperate until he goes aay
14:59 <Philderbeast> unless your to scared of them to be game to do either....
15:01 <Damalon01> and then i inform the gaurd
15:05 <Darkkapow> If you walked into a bar and started threatening the bar staff
15:12 <Darkkapow> you would be thrown out on your ass and not allowed back in
15:26 <Darkkapow> security comes and removes you
15:37 <Philderbeast> would the bar staff kick somone out who genuinly scared them?
15:52 <Darkkapow> yes
15:56 <Philderbeast> or would they cooperate and at least talk to him and hope to get him to leave peacefully
15:57 <Avatar> it's reasonable to assume they would
15:58 <Darkkapow> I've worked in a bar before
16:08 <Avatar> it's like you're holding them hostage
16:20 <Damalon01> actually most people are afraid of confrontations, they would do whatever it takes to get the bully to go away and then they would call the police.
16:22 <Avatar> they might give you the info you want, but they're also just as likely to try and shank you
16:56 <Philderbeast> i have no issues if there had been consequences to getting the info i wanted (in fact i would expect them)
17:17 <Avatar> the thing is, the way the skill works, on a successful roll, they are supposed to act friendly
17:24 <Philderbeast> but you dont stand up to a bully who just made you crap your pants by giving him an ultimatum.....
17:25 <Avatar> you've effectively scared them into submission
17:32 <Avatar> it's only on a failed roll that they'll try to shank you
17:40 <Damalon01> and ive worked in customer service Dark, the training was avoid escalation and report the incident.
18:08 <Philderbeast> i should be fine untill they are no longer scared (1d6 x10 mins later) and then they call the guard etc
18:11 <Darkkapow> There are a hundred kinds of customer service damalon
18:18 <Darkkapow> there are completely different settings for them
18:25 <Darkkapow> which is what i am trying to make you understand.
18:41 <Philderbeast> that RAW.... and you dont get to make up rules for PFS (as much as i would like to some times when GM'ing)
19:10 <Darkkapow> I'm not argueing the raw with you philder.
19:13 <Avatar> it was likely that the GM just misinterpreted intimidate
19:30 <Darkkapow> I am playing the devils advocate and trying to show you that there are different ways a situation can be handled within the raw.
19:43 <Philderbeast> and like i asked earlyer.... can anyone think of a way that a inkeep (particualrly in a lvl 1 - 2) would have hit dice + wis modifier of > 17
19:56 <Darkkapow> yes I can easily
20:00 <Darkkapow> there is no stat block
20:04 <Philderbeast> (i was told that wasent good enough btw)
20:11 <Darkkapow> owning and running an inn requires a substantial amount of gold
20:23 <Darkkapow> and there for the person running the inn may have class levels in something
20:28 <Avatar> he must have been very wise
20:33 <Damalon01> the point is Dark that he rolled well and got nothing for it. A good roll is a good roll and should get something! unless the mod specifically says Intim is an automatic failure.
20:33 <Philderbeast> it was a barkeep not the owener from what i was told
20:37 <Avatar> did you ask if he was wearing a headband
20:54 <Darkkapow> lol avatar XP
21:19 <Philderbeast> basiclly all my attempts to get information were made auto fails.....
21:23 <Darkkapow> damalon I can think of a lot of different situations where rolling well won't cut it.
21:32 <Damalon01> lol do i have to ask if the guy is wearing a headband? thats like i cant use my eyes again.
21:32 <Avatar> sometimes that happens if there's no information left to garner
21:50 <Avatar> did you actually get anything out of him
21:52 <Philderbeast> even though thats how my char was desinged to get info...
22:21 <Philderbeast> this was as soon as i walked in to the tavern....
22:39 <Damalon01> Dark a succesful roll should always get you something even if that something is being told that that skill is not applicable in the situation.
22:43 <Philderbeast> if there was no info there, I would have expected him to say he knows nothing
22:53 <Avatar> the scenario actually mentions specific ways to get information and intimidate isn't one of them
23:01 <Darkkapow> it did get him something
23:05 <Darkkapow> it got him kicked out of the bar
23:12 <Avatar> it's a creative solution, so it should've worked, but newbie GMs might not recognise that
23:18 <Philderbeast> it also tells gms to let the players use creative solutions to get the info
23:32 <Damalon01> it got him tossed out! hich cuts off access to the info and makes things more diffecult! thats not success thats failure!
23:33 <Philderbeast> unfortunatly mekkis is not a newbe GM....
23:43 <Avatar> oh it was mekkis
23:49 <Avatar> I've been screwed by mekkis numerous times
24:04 <Darkkapow> now now avatar lets leave the pitchfork and torches at home
24:07 <Philderbeast> even if it was made DC 25 (vs20) for using a diffrent skill
24:10 <Avatar> numerous
24:16 <Philderbeast> that would be cool
24:28 <Avatar> I think he actually has a thing against bluff and intimidate
24:34 <Philderbeast> and crossbows....
24:43 <Philderbeast> and non perfectly optimised characters
24:54 <Damalon01> ugh...
24:56 <Philderbeast> i could go on.... but it just gets rude from here
25:08 <Damalon01> a thing against non perfectly optimized characters?
25:17 <Damalon01> well thats me out
25:46 <Philderbeast> put it this way he looked at our characters and started telling us they were crap because we were making characters that seemed like fun to play
25:56 <Philderbeast> but we should have chosen other things cause they were better
26:05 <Damalon01> yeah... i hate that
26:29 <Philderbeast> like telling the hunter that decided to use cross bows that "any idiot can use a cross bow, and idiots usually do"
26:45 <Damalon01> uh huh
27:09 <Damalon01> ok break out the torches and pitchforks, lets have a good lynching
27:11 <Darkkapow> Don't get me wrong, I am purely just trying to show you that there are different ways things can be run from different peoples perspectives. I'm not saying that all of them are right.
27:31 <Darkkapow> I am just pointing out options that may be the situation so you can see different perspectives
28:03 <Darkkapow> whether you choose to acknowledge them or not is your own prerogative.
28:08 <Philderbeast> hey i run mods diffrent to most GM's, im cool with running things diffrently..... but when the whole party is not having fun, because your making the social encounters unnessaccarly hard (and knowing the combat encounters are going to be hard) thats not my idea of being a good GM
29:05 <Darkkapow> In this instance I agree with mekkis throwing you out for intimidating a bar keep. It's logical.
29:06 <Philderbeast> and dont get me wrong, i have no problems with things being hard, but when you dont have an optimised part you have to find a balance or you wont have any players
29:15 <Darkkapow> He gets people come in be roudy and get loud all the time.
29:20 <Darkkapow> by default it's what he does.
29:27 <Damalon01> i agree with Philder on this. A good GM is right there with the pcs, wants them to succeed while presenting challenges to their abilities.
29:28 <Mekkis> well...
29:35 <Mekkis> let's start on the intimidate
29:36 <Darkkapow> as for the combat I've pointed out things that could be different and circumstantial
29:54 <Mekkis> Firstly, you weren't trying to get information, you were trying to get a free drink
30:05 <Philderbeast> that was the second time
30:18 <Mekkis> the first time, you weren't trying to get any information
30:39 <Philderbeast> ummmm... yea thats where i was going with that line... before you cut me off
30:50 <Mekkis> you were just trying to freak him out
31:00 <Philderbeast> so i could get him to tell me things....
31:06 <Ulzef> just saying just because yhou beat someone on a social roll does not mean they will betray who they are
31:49 <Philderbeast> thats how intimidate works... you scare them in to giving you what you want.....
31:57 <Damalon01> Ulzef a truly frightened person will do just about anything to get out of the situation.
31:58 <Philderbeast> unless im reading it really badly...
32:08 <Avatar> the skill is pretty clear
32:32 <Ulzef> man i dont care how bad you can kick my ass i an't giving you a free drink then the next guy will kick my ass for a free drink and so on
32:32 <Darkkapow> fight or flight damalon
32:37 <Darkkapow> everyone has a different response
32:45 <Darkkapow> you corner someone they may just come out swinging
32:50 <Philderbeast> yea the free drinks one im fine with, it made total sence....
33:02 <Philderbeast> that was just me being an arse to the NPC
33:04 <Avatar> if you fail the roll, then they come out swinging
33:05 <Ulzef> actually what it does is make them helpful towards you not your mind bitch
33:08 <Damalon01> true... if theres somehere to flee. notably fe options when youre stuck behind a bar.
33:09 <Mekkis> and the go up to the bar and piss off the tavernkeeper doesn't help either
33:59 <Damalon01> Ulzef what i said earlier was that barkeep should have co-operated until the bully went away and then called the police.
34:02 <Philderbeast> the one im worried about is you cut off my intimidate before i had a chance to do anything with it.... ignoring the roll
34:03 <Damalon01> thats logical.
35:08 <Mekkis> because when there's a roll, the NPC reacts to it. Generally you shouldn't roll until prompted.
35:09 <Darkkapow> no it's not damalon
35:18 <Damalon01> yeah iy is Dark
35:19 <Darkkapow> it's sir if you keep pressing this way i will call security
35:40 <Mekkis> As far as I knew, you went up to the barkeeper and started intimidating him, not trying to get any information or anything
35:49 <Damalon01> yes you can say that, and id agree. but thats not what the barkeep did. he keckec Philder out.
36:00 <Philderbeast> but you didnt let him get intimidated for me to do anything with it
36:04 <Darkkapow> so he has less tolerance than me
36:07 <Darkkapow> he doesn't warn you
36:13 <Darkkapow> he just calls security straight away
36:15 <Damalon01> maybe you should have asked what Philder was trying to do Mekkis
36:19 <Darkkapow> cause adventurers come bullying him all the time
36:40 <Philderbeast> you just told me he wasent intimidated and i had to leave the tavern
36:45 <Mekkis> if you went up to the barkeeper, stood in his face, brought your fist to him, extended your claws, then said "Tell me what you know about the Spider", then that's cause for an intimidate check.
37:05 <Avatar> so what was the intimidate check for
37:10 <Mekkis> If you go to the barkeeper, threaten him and roll an intimidate check, he's going to kick you out.
37:17 <Damalon01> hmmm if he has that much experience with adventurers Dark then he knos how dangerous they can be... even less reason to put a fight...
37:30 <Philderbeast> the fact that we were threatening his stacc (if you rember the hunter had a knife to the wenchs ribs at this stage)
37:37 <Darkkapow> Or even more reason to remove them from his bar.
37:43 <Darkkapow> HE is in the right.
37:45 <Darkkapow> it's his bar
37:47 <Avatar> this sounds like a weird order of things
37:51 <Darkkapow> you would be the one's about to break the law
38:00 <Avatar> obviously he was threatening him to get information about the spider but that part hadn't happened yet
38:11 <Mekkis> it wasn't obvious
38:13 <Avatar> like he was rolling to change him to friendly
38:16 <Damalon01> only if he knows they wont destroy his bar Dark! which many adventurers are capable of doing!
38:17 <Darkkapow> it comes back to clarity as well
38:20 <Darkkapow> what i said earlier
38:24 <Darkkapow> it's not the gm's job to baby you
38:28 <Philderbeast> and i walked up to him and let him know he was being threatened.... and got kicked out
38:39 <Darkkapow> if you want to hold the gm to be clear and concise about everything
38:42 <Darkkapow> you need to be so yourself
39:11 <Damalon01> um actually the GM has an obligation to guide his pcs. thats not babying that co-operation. the game belongs to everyone at the table. equal responsibility.
39:22 <Mekkis> indeed
39:24 <Darkkapow> exactly
39:27 <Darkkapow> equal responsibility
39:30 <Avatar> it is a matter of fixing the communication 
39:31 <Mekkis> It's my obligation to build the world
39:33 <Darkkapow> so if the gm doesn't tell you something
39:34 <Avatar> on both sides
39:35 <Darkkapow> it's your job to ask
39:38 <Darkkapow> and use your eyes
39:41 <Ulzef> just saying my cleric torched the bar in absalom at least 4 times
39:46 <Darkkapow> you have to explore what is given to you
39:58 <Avatar> there comes a point where you can say "hang on, what I'm trying to do is...."
40:15 <Damalon01> but in this case youre assuming if they dont ask they dont kno! when common sense dictates the character should know even if the player doesnt!
40:21 <Darkkapow> thank you avatar
40:22 <Avatar> Mekkis: you can pick that up by asking "what are you trying to do, this doesn't sound right"
40:30 <Darkkapow> they clearly weren't getting the point i was trying to make here
40:37 <Avatar> that's a learned skill
40:43 <Avatar> most people don't even think about it
41:01 <Mekkis> given what the other PCs were doing at the time, I was willing to go with the flow at this point, and see where they ended up
41:32 <Philderbeast> ok i have a question, did you miss us talking about the fact that the hunter was about to stab the unhelpfull wench as i walked up to the barkeep?
41:32 <Mekkis> some of them were pretending to be muscle, the paladins were trying to smite any amount of evil they could find...
41:38 <Darkkapow> and damalon it's not dark it's kapow.
41:44 <Darkkapow> dark is the prefix for the always online me
42:01 <Avatar> I will call you dark too now
42:14 <Darkkapow> the module gives you what the world is and what you see.
42:32 <Mekkis> the module, plus the supplementary books
42:35 <Damalon01> ok Kapow i didnt know... and the common practice is to cut it down to the first part. thatnk you for telling me.
42:36 <Darkkapow> it says it's late at night which imply's it's dark
43:04 <Philderbeast> Mekkis: ok i have a question, did you miss us talking about the fact that the hunter was about to stab the unhelpfull wench as i walked up to the barkeep?
43:09 <Darkkapow> it doesn't say anything about a moon hanging high in the evening sky
43:15 <Darkkapow> which would cause shadowy or low light
43:16 <Damalon01> it implies... it doesnt state. the gm has an obligation to be clear and concise. becuase hes your eyes and ears.
43:27 <Mekkis> I don't understand the relevance. Could you elaborate
43:31 <Darkkapow> this is what your not understand damalon
43:38 <Darkkapow> you jsut siad it's equal share in responsibility
43:45 <Damalon01> sayijg i have to ask you to be clear is like saying i have to ask my eyes and ears to be clear.
43:45 <Darkkapow> you are your eyes and ears too.
43:53 <Darkkapow> if you want more information than your given ask for it
44:00 <Philderbeast> i was using her threatening the wench as leading in to me threatening the barkeep to tell us anything he knew
44:11 <Damalon01> not if its common sense that my character would notice.
44:25 <Darkkapow> well if it's too dark for you to see maybe you would have to?
44:25 <Damalon01> unles im blind i should notice its dark outside
44:38 <Darkkapow> if you can't see in the dark
44:41 <Darkkapow> how can you tell if your blind
44:44 <Darkkapow> or if it's dark?
44:47 <Philderbeast> but as soon as i mentioned that he was being threatened, you kicked me out of there.....
44:54 <Damalon01> um cos i cant see anything?
45:00 <Darkkapow> but maybe your blind?
45:08 <Darkkapow> you can't see anything
45:11 <Darkkapow> it's the same qualification
45:13 <Damalon01> if i could see before then im not blind. its dark
45:34 <Damalon01> then the gm had an obligation to say 'its gotten dark'
45:43 <Damalon01> clearly concisely
45:46 <Darkkapow> so maybe you should use some of that logic you just showed me in interpruting the text a scenario gives you
45:47 <Damalon01> so i cant miss it
45:53 <Darkkapow> it's late at night
45:56 <Darkkapow> it's gotten late at night
46:06 <Darkkapow> that is as plain as day it's gotten dark to me
46:11 <Darkkapow> I can't miss that.
46:15 <Damalon01> no its not
46:20 <Darkkapow> as a player if it says it's late at night
46:21 <Ulzef> anyway guys what i am seeing is a whole bunch of people and and we should have a 1-5 game so i dont have to out of tier tomorrow :P
46:27 <Darkkapow> my first question is what sort of lighting is on teh ship.
46:33 <Darkkapow> that is my first qualifying question
46:39 <Damalon01> are there any lanterns around? yes it in the description, you said so yourself
46:52 <Damalon01> so hat exactly i the light level?
46:57 <Damalon01> thats unclear
47:31 <Damalon01> and that should be one of the first things the GM qualifies
47:45 <Darkkapow> okay I'm going to stop trying you clearly aren't getting the point of this conversation and it's now a waste of my time. If you refuse to even listen to what I am saying I'm not going to say it.
47:48 <Damalon01> the advantages and disadvantages f the situation
48:12 <Damalon01> ok Kapo as you wish. from my POV you arent listening to me.
49:33 <Darkkapow> I am listening to you damalon, I have on a number of occasions said that I agree with some of the stuff you've said just it's a different situation.
50:03 <Philderbeast> Mekkis: so with that in mind im still baffled as to why you blew off the intimidate attempt with out allowing me to use it to do anything (in this case ask questions of the guy)
50:29 <Darkkapow> You need to understand that you are the character in the scenario. You need to look around and explore the world.You are the one responsible for that characters actions and controling him.
50:38 <Darkkapow> If you don't understand something your character should.
50:38 <Philderbeast> there was no way i could have made it clearer that i was trying to intimidate the inkeep for some reason....
50:42 <Darkkapow> You ask the question.
50:50 <Darkkapow> That's your job as a player.
50:59 <Darkkapow> Otherwise your not being your character.
51:26 <Philderbeast> and noting we where out trying to get information, im not sure what else you thought i could have been going for with out at least letting me do something with it
51:30 <Darkkapow> That's the end of it. If you forget to do something as your character, your character forgets.
51:46 <Darkkapow> I'm sorry if that's harsh but that's what it is, if you forget to say you selectively channel
51:54 <Darkkapow> whoops you forgot to selectively channel.
51:58 <Darkkapow> that's you not doing it.
52:09 <Darkkapow> just like real life characters make mistake and miss things.
52:11 <Ulzef> i never say i power attack i just forget to say i dont :P
54:35 <Darkkapow> then ulzef you wouldn't be power attacking on my table, unless you said at the start all my attacks will be using power attack unless i say otherwise at the start.
55:27 <Ulzef> most gm's ask for attack and damage i give power attack attack and damage
55:42 <Philderbeast> dark, out of curiosity, do you make that clear to players at the star (particularly new players?)
56:23 <Darkkapow> what are you refering to philder
56:52 <Philderbeast> that they must say exactly what they are using? (i.e. power attacking)
57:27 <Darkkapow> yes because it helps them to learn the mechanics associated with them and the consequences and actions that happen if they do or don't use them.
57:43 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, Core rulebook p13.
57:50 <Darkkapow> and they learn if they don't use them. or do and they don't intend to.
57:54 <Mekkis> you say what you're doing, the GM asks you to roll.
58:20 <Darkkapow> while there is always room for lenience because they are learning you have to take every new player seperately.
58:29 <Darkkapow> Sometimes doing that to them is the best thing for them.
58:47 <Darkkapow> Sometimes holding there hand a little and asking them ebfore they do it if they are power attacking is reminding them
58:52 <Darkkapow> and that's the best way to do it
58:52 <Damalon01> i thought we were done with this discussion?
58:57 <Philderbeast> im more thinking when you have a player who is in there first 2 - 3 games max, so they understand what will happen when they forget something
58:59 <Darkkapow> it depends entirely on the person.
59:02 <Philderbeast> to help them learn to do it
59:20 <Darkkapow> like I said it depends on the person.
59:42 <Philderbeast> cool, like i said im just curios how people handle those sorts of things
59:44 <Darkkapow> If they are extremely new and don't understand it and they forget to say it you ask if they want to or if they where intentionally not.
59:53 <Darkkapow> Because they need to learn to act for themselves.
00:00 <Mekkis> when there's a new player, I say "tell me what you're trying to do, and we'll work out how it's doable"
00:23 <Darkkapow> They can't act for themselves if they don't know what the actions are.
00:44 <Mekkis> yes they can
00:45 <Darkkapow> And unless they ask or you try find out what they are trying to do they aren't going to learn.
00:53 <Darkkapow> It's a 2 way street though.
01:11 <Darkkapow> They need to speak up and say what they are trying to do or what they want to do if they don't know how to do it.
01:18 <Darkkapow> If you don't speak up and ask a question
01:21 <Darkkapow> We can't help you
01:28 <Darkkapow> and ultimately that's what we are there to do.
02:33 <Damalon01> ok Kapow fair enough but i still say you as the GM have an obligation to offer any and all information that is obvious. such as light levels, anything a npcs is wearing or using.
02:40 <Darkkapow> If you won't take the initiative on yourself to do something you may as well be what damalon said earlier, blind deaf and dumb.
03:08 <Damalon01> do you have any idea how many times ive had to ask gms what armour a npc is wearing? when it should be bloody obvious?!
03:31 <Philderbeast> so back to the question i had earler, if you knew i was intimidating the bar keep, why did you blow that off and kick me out, when doing to basicly stopped the party being able to get information they neede
03:33 <Damalon01> especially if its heavy armour?!!
03:50 <Darkkapow> yes we are if you want to look at them properly.
03:56 <Darkkapow> it all comes down to the situation
04:06 <Darkkapow> and as a player it's your job to ask those sort of questions
04:11 <Damalon01> no its not
04:13 <Darkkapow> because we are running other things
04:19 <Damalon01> obvious armour is obvious
04:28 <Darkkapow> we may give you a description about those sort of things
04:30 <Damalon01> excuses
04:31 <Mekkis> because all I knew was that you were intimidating the barkeep
04:32 <Darkkapow> if you want ot know more
04:35 <Darkkapow> it's your job to ask
04:47 <Damalon01> no its your job to offer the obvious
04:56 <Damalon01> should i do your job for you?
05:02 <Darkkapow> which is what i just said damalon
05:12 <Darkkapow> WE MAY GIVE YOU A DESCRIPTION ABOUT THOSE SORT OF THINGS!
05:16 <Darkkapow> if you want to know more ask
05:18 <Philderbeast> personly on the obvious side of things, i would expect a breif description of the character when i first see him, giving rought details of what he looks like/is wearing
05:18 <Damalon01> except your saying its mine as a player
05:31 <Philderbeast> ie, he is wearing chainmail and carring a sword
05:33 <Darkkapow> if you want to know more than the description we've given you yes
05:35 <Darkkapow> it is
05:44 <Philderbeast> with out nessaccarly details wat wort of items they are
05:49 <Damalon01> but if you dont supply the obvious youre at fault
05:51 <Damalon01> not me
06:05 <Darkkapow> no shit
06:05 <Philderbeast> so why didnt you let me intimidate the bar keep
06:06 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, very well, so when you're running a social, investigative scenario, you'll have what each NPC is wearing and carrying?
06:31 <Darkkapow> I never said we don't have to tell you what he is wearing.
06:33 <Philderbeast> i would exepect some sort of idea of what they have
06:38 <Darkkapow> I said we have to give you a description.
06:46 <Darkkapow> I didn't define what the description was.
06:47 <Mekkis> given that yesterday, when asked, you were Unable to describe what your OWN character was wearing!
06:50 <Philderbeast> i.e. they are armed etc so my character can respond to that
06:51 <Damalon01> so why are you insisting that i have to ask Kapo?
07:06 <Darkkapow> because if you want to know more or something is left out you have to.
07:06 <Damalon01> when its obvious i dont have to ask about obvious stuff?
07:09 <Darkkapow> that's all tehre is to it
07:14 <Damalon01> no its not
07:15 <Philderbeast> i gave you a basic description.....
07:22 <Damalon01> you have an obligation'
07:26 <Damalon01> youre my eyes and ears
07:28 <Mekkis> "He's wearing ordinary robes"
07:31 <Mekkis> is what you said
07:33 <Philderbeast> yep
07:41 <Mekkis> what does that even mean
07:51 <Philderbeast> and thats what he wears
08:03 <Philderbeast> noting you had already read my character sheet several times at that stage....
08:19 <Mekkis> if I said I was wearing "ordinary clothes", what would you think I was wearing
08:24 <Damalon01> i dont have that same level of obligation, since i dont have access to the same level of information you do.
08:41 <Philderbeast> a plain set of cloths. nothing that stangs out from the crowd
08:48 <Darkkapow> Damalon I am telling a story I am giving you information about a world. I am painting a picture that is going to mean different things to every person if you want to refine details that's up to you to do yourself.
08:51 <Darkkapow> By asking questions
09:02 <Darkkapow> otherwise I am basically sitting you down and showing oyu a picture book
09:02 <Mekkis> am I wearing jeans? trousers? fatigues? dress uniform? a suit?
09:18 <Mekkis> collared shirt?
09:21 <Mekkis> T-Shirt?
09:26 <Darkkapow> nut up learn to interact with the scenario and take some intiative on your own behalf if your not happy with what your given.
09:39 <Damalon01> agreeed but what im saying is that if light and other obvious details are not being properly explained thats youre failing as a GM not mine as a player
09:42 <Philderbeast> all being mor detail then i would expect.
09:43 <Darkkapow> otherwise your just being lazy
10:10 <Darkkapow> or your character wasn't paying enough attention
10:15 <Damalon01> lol and youre being lazy as a GM by not clearly and concisely highlghting what i need to kno!
10:18 <Darkkapow> because he was focused on doing osmething else.
10:49 <Mekkis> so you're expecting me, as a GM, to have descriptions for ALL my NPCs, even the ones who aren't in the scenario and have just sprang into being because you decided to enter a tavern, yet you think it's ok to be wearing 'ordinary robes'?
10:51 <Philderbeast> i would expect about a 10 word description at most of a character when i first see them, enough to know if they are obviously armed and or armoured, or a basic ides of socal stance
11:00 <Mekkis> Good luck GMing to those standards.
11:03 <Darkkapow> a hot chick walks past you in the street and you want a better look you know she has a nice ass but you have to look further if you really want to enjoy it.
11:09 <Darkkapow> learn to look further at something.
11:33 <Damalon01> lol
11:56 <Damalon01> i would say 'am i blind? wwhy didnt you tell what colour clothes shes waering?"
12:20 <Darkkapow> I wasn't gming then.
12:22 <Damalon01> youre not doing youre job as a GM
12:34 <Damalon01> that was youre example man
12:38 <Philderbeast> its not hard to take a look at the character details (or make up) that you see he has a sword on his hip and appears to he wearing a silk shirt and trowsers
12:56 <Philderbeast> and leave the rest to the imagination unles something specific is asked
13:45 <Darkkapow> I get what you're saying there damalon I do I was being deliberately comical and sarcastic about something because you weren't getting the point.
13:51 <Mekkis> then why didn't you do that with the One character you were in charge of playing?
14:01 <Mekkis> rather than "he wears ordinary robes"
14:05 <Mekkis> if it's really not that hard
14:21 <Damalon01> i think im getting the point just fine. i dont think youre getting mine. im saying the description you gave earlier is not clear enough
14:36 <Damalon01> be specific or expect youre players to assume things
14:39 <Philderbeast> thats all the obious things you would see, noting he doesnt carrry any weapons, and its not exactly a fancy robe....
14:52 <Darkkapow> And what I am saying is I wasn't giving a description i would give as a gm
14:56 <Damalon01> get it wrong and then bitch that you weerent clear. cos you werent clear!
15:37 <Damalon01> i mean the description of the dock or hatever it was not the hot chick.
15:41 <Philderbeast> but im still not sure why you blew off the intimidate as you havent answered yet
15:43 <Damalon01> is that what you mean?
15:44 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, when you GM, I'll expect every NPC I encounter to have at least a ten word description about him.
15:52 <Philderbeast> sure
15:59 <Darkkapow> IF I was being a gm I would say "A tall man in full plate holding his helmet at his side walks past you and shoots you a momentary glance before continueing on down teh street."
16:19 <Mekkis> I had the guy react as he would reasonably react when being intimidated
16:38 <Darkkapow> if you want to know more about that man you have to look.
16:44 <Damalon01> thats a much better description. but you neglected to mention weapons, which is something i shouldnt have to ask about unless they are hidden.
16:44 <Philderbeast> considering thats what i give to my players anyway when they first see any character i expect them to interact with it wont be a challange
16:49 <Darkkapow> that man could actually be the hot chick disguised as a man
17:10 <Mekkis> regardless how scary you are, he's not going to cower behind the bar, saying "All I know about this chick you've never mentioned in my presence is <insert slug here>"
17:10 <Philderbeast> so you ignored the RAW then for him?
17:20 <Mekkis> no
17:27 <Damalon01> i understand and agree that is could be a hot chick described as a gaurd Kapo
17:28 <Darkkapow> Okay damalon how about you schedule a game for us to play in?
17:33 <Darkkapow> And we'll enjoy your perfect gming
17:42 <Philderbeast> so why wasnt he at least a little helpfull as described in the rules
17:50 <Darkkapow> the way your talking i'd love to play in one of you games.
17:55 <Darkkapow> you might near be the perfect gm
18:02 <Damalon01> lol i didnt say i was perfect. i said you have an obligation to provide info, not assume the pcs will ask.
18:17 <Mekkis> because he had a circumstance bonus.
18:36 <Philderbeast> from what
18:44 <Mekkis> from being in a bar he owned
19:05 <Mekkis> and being spoken to by a foreigner who just wanted to give him a hard time
19:19 <Damalon01> i would like to get to know you better before I start GMing :P
19:20 <Darkkapow> we aren't obligated
19:23 <Darkkapow> we are obliged
19:36 <Damalon01> i havent even played one game with this group.
19:40 <Darkkapow> if we don't it's your job to ask
19:53 <Darkkapow> because after all you are the character in the world
20:00 <Philderbeast> enough that he would be willing to risk getting killed.....
20:02 <Darkkapow> you have to look around if you want more information
20:30 <Darkkapow> you may have absolutely nothing to do with the man that just walked past you.
20:38 <Darkkapow> he could simply be a man in the street
20:44 <Damalon01> aahhh ok now i agree with you Kapo. before you were saying it is completely on the players to ask, now youre saying if the GM fails to mention it you should ask. Thats entirely different.
20:46 <Darkkapow> or he could be the big bad evil guy at the end
20:52 <Darkkapow> if your character doesn't take the hook
20:55 <Darkkapow> and ask for more information
20:58 <Darkkapow> he will never know
21:15 <Philderbeast> noting it would have to be something like a +15 bonus for him to have ignored that....
21:25 <Darkkapow> no the entire time I've been saying if a gm doesn't say somethign then you should ask.
21:35 <Darkkapow> you've been interupting it differently
21:35 <Damalon01> no exactly Kapow
21:43 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, how do you know how many HD he had?
21:46 <Damalon01> not exactly i mean
21:58 <Damalon01> doesnt matter
22:03 <Philderbeast> so your saying he was a lvl 10 inkeep?
22:04 <Damalon01> i get the message now
22:06 andrey ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
22:15 <Mekkis> how do you know he wasn't?
22:42 <Darkkapow> I hope you do. As gm's it's our job to generate interest in the world.
22:47 <Philderbeast> because im saying that you were not running the scenario as written but not rewarding players for finding creating solutions to getting information
22:49 <Darkkapow> sometimes that means leaving details out
22:53 <Darkkapow> so you ahve to ask and explore it
23:01 <Philderbeast> noting we had no particularly diplomating or knowleagable characters
23:13 <Darkkapow> it's how you imerse people into a situation.
23:34 <Darkkapow> it's playing a game verses looking at a picture book
23:35 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, going up to a bartender and rolling an intimidate check is not a creative solution
24:01 <Damalon01> i certainly agree that for the sake of the story you sometimes have to gloss over details. its when those details are important to a scenario, and that scenario has consequences that can be dire that i say you have an obligation to supply the obvious.
24:15 <Philderbeast> no its playing my character the way he is designed, and noting we went out of our way to go around pretending to be the bad guys to get information that is what would happen.....
24:20 <Mekkis> going up to a bartender, doing a bit of roleplaying to lead the conversation in the right direction, and following it up with an intimidate check if he's being uncooperative IS.
24:34 <Philderbeast> and also noting that you blowing off that roll contributed to us getting stuck with no leads.....
24:56 <Mekkis> In short, going up to someone and rolling a dice is NEVER a 'creative solution'
25:11 <Damalon01> well that i agree with Mekkis
25:11 <Mekkis> without an explanation of what you're doing
25:13 <Philderbeast> so your ignoring the fact that we lead the situation to there what could happen as a creative solution....
25:42 <Mekkis> that's not a fact
26:07 <Philderbeast> noting it was far from the first thing to happen in the tarver, as i cane in after the other 2 characters when the situation was favorable to me
27:10 <Mekkis> noting the fact that all your character did was go up to the barkeep and give him a hard time, with no dialog or background.
27:14 <Damalon01> hmmm i think the last thing ill add on this arguement is that I think mistakes were made on both sides. it happens :)
27:47 <Philderbeast> because the background was already set.....
27:55 <Philderbeast> by the other PC's in the room.....
27:57 <Mekkis> you set NO background
28:07 <Mekkis> all they were doing was bullying his clients
28:19 <Philderbeast> or cant the pc's work as a team in your games
28:42 <Mekkis> just because you didn't, doesn't mean you can't
29:09 <Philderbeast> but we did, thats why i asked earlyer if you missed what was happening with the other PC's when the intimidate happened
29:59 <Mekkis> they were threatening another client, because he had an item that radiated evil on him
30:09 <Philderbeast> no that was the second tavern
30:20 <Mekkis> they were NOT asking for information regarding the Spider.
31:26 andrey has quit (Ping timeout: 122 seconds)
32:53 <Philderbeast> we never got to in the first tavern... thats the issue
41:44 <Philderbeast> im also trying to work out shy you had us arrested on the ship, noting that they had a buch of people on there to be sold as slaves, and im fairly certain that andorans would not arest people on the word of slavers
41:56 <Philderbeast> and yes thats in the description of whats found on the ship
42:46 andrey ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
42:53 <Mekkis> Sure
43:02 <Philderbeast> that in particular ruined any chacne we had of finishing the scenario with any sort of faverable outcome
43:19 <Mekkis> they should have slit your throats, thrown your bodies and their evidence in the water, and denied everything.
43:25 <Mekkis> Want me to retcon it?
44:05 <Philderbeast> how about i just never play at your tables again.....
46:02 <Damalon01> thats always a solution
46:29 <Damalon01> Just as Mekkis can choose not to GM for you
47:01 <Mekkis> I'm pretty sure that by the time that you're all out cold, except for the one character who's run away, your chances of finishing the scenario are down the toilet already
48:02 <Philderbeast> im not saying it would have been easy.... but we would have stood a chance, we potentally had 2 peices of evidence already and 2 more on the ship
48:12 <Mekkis> no. you wouldn't have
48:32 <Philderbeast> giving us a reasonable shot at making the diplomacy rolls with the bonuses from them
48:58 <Philderbeast> leaving it down to how er handled the final encounter....
49:13 <Mekkis> at that point, I don't see any way where you would have come out in a favourable condition. Hell, even you being alive at that point was a mercy.
51:00 <Philderbeast> we would have been alive with enough evidence to make the trial, and from memory it had only been one day, giving us time to rest to regain spells and heal using the wand etc 
51:06 <Philderbeast> and go in to the last fight fresh
51:23 <Damalon01> heheh i usually find that continued suffering is torture and that dying is a merciful end to that :P
52:22 <Philderbeast> the captured slavers would also potentally be an extra peice of evedence for that part.... and the last encounter would have been doable, if freaking hard....
52:41 <Mekkis> Philderbeast, I think that it'd be best if we discussed this next week, with Ben.
52:43 <Philderbeast> i also find it hard to think that slavers would have killed the slaves....
53:35 <Philderbeast> I will if i cant get some reasonable explination for why you decided to play things out like you did (hell even i missed that part when i was reading it would be better then some of what im getting)
54:01 <Mekkis> that last bit was because I didn't want to TPK. Sorry about that
55:39 andrey has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
58:01 <Philderbeast> yea and you still cound have done that and given us at least a shot at finishing....
14:57 <Mekkis> Yes, I deviated from the scenario in order to avoid killing you all off, and your issue is that I didn't deviate enough to also hand you a win.
18:17 <Philderbeast> my issue is that you deviated from the scenario ni ways that activly stopped us from finishing and made no sence role play wise
18:32 <Philderbeast> slavers taking people captive makes sence
18:46 <Philderbeast> the city watch who hates slavers takeing them at there word does not
19:37 <Mekkis> slavers killing off the evidence and claiming it was piracy makes even more sense.
20:05 Gamera ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
42:06 <Philderbeast> meh this isnt getting us anywhere....
42:11 <Philderbeast> ill worry about it latter
51:58 <Damalon01> so... with the game tomorrow evening... do i just show up here first? then worry about Skype or whatever afterward?
01:45 <Darkkapow> pretty much
01:53 <Darkkapow> I wish it was one i hadn't played :(
01:56 <Darkkapow> fanging for a game
02:04 <Darkkapow> starting to have run or already played a lot of things
02:06 <Darkkapow> it sucks
02:15 <Mekkis> yeah
03:30 <Darkkapow> I want to find a group of 5 other people and literally go season 0 01, 0 02 etc through and clear out stuff that people haven't played
07:39 <Damalon01> i wouldnt mind that either. i really wanna start a fresh level 1. i cant play too regularly because i have school and other games but i want more games anyway.
07:42 <Damalon01> :P
31:32 Spaceshot_XperiaZ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
32:10 <Spaceshot_XperiaZ> So who's going to sheepcon?
32:31 <Damalon01> lol sheepcon?
34:48 <Spaceshot_XperiaZ> A one day con in Melbourne in the next couple weeks
36:25 <Damalon01> never heard of it. i know Arcanacon is coming up soon but havent heard any details.
44:00 <Brunius> sheepcon sounds more like something in NZ
44:06 <Darkkapow> i know right
36:21 <Spaceshot_XperiaZ> True, but I think it's got to do with being sheeple 
36:30 <Spaceshot_XperiaZ> Since it was on the flier
36:46 <Spaceshot_XperiaZ> Over dirty deeds done with sheep
43:29 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
43:34 <bgiohiuhu8> WARNING   WARNING   WARNING, WARNING  WARNING
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8>    YOU MAY BE WATCHED            )
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8> هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!
43:35 <bgiohiuhu8>                                 Egyptian moslem
44:00 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has left #d&d
50:19 <Damalon01> um wtf?
54:18 <Brunius> usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy !
54:24 <Brunius> isn't that obvious?
58:08 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8> WARNING   WARNING   WARNING, WARNING  WARNING
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8>    YOU MAY BE WATCHED            )
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8> هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!
58:14 <bgiohiuhu8>                                 Egyptian moslem
58:26 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has left #d&d
00:31 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
00:40 <bgiohiuhu8> WARNING   WARNING   WARNING, WARNING  WARNING
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8>    YOU MAY BE WATCHED            )
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&Israel use chat &facebook 2 spy?!?!?!?
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8> Do they record &analyse everything we type?!?!?!?
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8> Do usa&israel use chat&social communication prog(facebook&twitter) to collect informations,,,,can we call that spying!!!!
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8> هل تستخدم امريكاواسرئيل الشات والفيس بوك للتجسس!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!؟!
00:41 <bgiohiuhu8>                                 Egyptian moslem
01:52 bgiohiuhu8 ([email protected]) has left #d&d
12:24 Brunius_ ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
12:25 * Mekkis sets ban on bgiohiuhu8!*@*
15:15 Brunius has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
20:38 <Darkkapow> Danger will Robinson!
24:05 <Mekkis> Darkkapow, do you use chat and social communications prog (facebook and twitter)?
24:13 <Mekkis> you're a SPY!!!
24:48 <Damalon01> I think youre all spies
25:01 <Mekkis> well
25:04 <Mekkis> we all use chat
25:06 <Damalon01> i trust only myself
25:07 <Mekkis> !!!
25:12 <Mekkis> you're a spy!
25:20 <Damalon01> but i know IM not a spy!
25:29 <Damalon01> :P
25:48 <Damalon01> I AM NOT YOURE A SPY!
25:57 <Mekkis> spoken like a true spy
26:04 <Damalon01> :O
26:09 <Damalon01> says the real spy
26:14 <Mekkis> you're probably a communist and a misogynist
26:26 <Damalon01> im a socialist thank you!
26:33 <Damalon01> but still  not a spy
26:55 <Damalon01> but you.. your e clearly a ccommie mutant traitor
27:21 <Mekkis> Friend Computer would like a word with you
27:36 <Damalon01> heheh i Love Paranoia
27:51 <Damalon01> havent played it for ages
28:08 <Mekkis> you're not cleared for that
29:13 <Damalon01> dammit! Red clearnace isnt enough?
29:16 <Darkkapow> facebook
29:17 <Darkkapow> yes
29:30 <Darkkapow> mekkis we all know you have your finger on teh button
29:43 <Mekkis> you mean Teh button?!
29:49 <Mekkis> the +b?
30:00 <Darkkapow> the
30:20 <Mekkis> oh
30:25 <Mekkis> the ion cannon
30:26 <Mekkis> yeah
31:59 <Darkkapow> we all know it has a different name
32:05 <Darkkapow> because you couldn't say the real name
32:06 <Darkkapow> but yes
41:07 <Mekkis> Nukes are great. Without them everything becomes a slow and inevitable CRAWL to
41:07 <Mekkis> destruction, rather than a "race". You use military invasions and large naval
41:07 <Mekkis> forces instead of blinding blitzkrieg nuke attacks. Also, it's nice to go to
41:07 <Mekkis> sleep at night, comfortable in knowing that if you're nuked, you have arranged
41:07 <Mekkis> to have all yours launched automagically in retaliation to destroy everybody
41:07 <Mekkis> completely.
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