// #d&d — 2016-05-13
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03:29:11 Stu has quit (Connection closed)
04:12:06 <steven> well, tonight was fun.
04:12:06 <steven> got to play the witcher boardgame.
04:12:06 <steven> i lost by 43 points.
04:12:06 <steven> which is a fuck ton
04:34:40 <steven> yup... i think its time for a nap.
05:01:59 <MekkisScreen> you're wrong
05:45:44 <Avatar> why is the vigilante no good for PFS
06:03:47 <Relaxer> was playing starwars tonight.
06:04:25 <Relaxer> spent 95% of the time being waitstaff for a fancy restraunt.
06:05:39 <Relaxer> and then had a completely ridiculous segway to get back to where the party was because none of them decided to come and get me.
06:06:52 <Relaxer> then rolled initiative, got knocked unconcious in the first round of combat.
06:10:47 <Relaxer> oh wait, i forgot.
06:10:54 <Relaxer> it wasnt first round of combat.
06:11:11 <Relaxer> i just didnt impact the game first round of combot, because i punched somebody and did no damage
06:11:34 <Relaxer> so first round, i punched somebody, and they laughed at me.
06:11:56 <Relaxer> then second round they beat the shit out of me with two lightsabres and knocked me unconcious.
06:13:50 <Relaxer> my character... totally OP. So i cant have a Talisman of Iron Fists that would let me get Armor piercing 2
06:15:06 <Mekkis> what classes can get the ability to cast wizard spells?
06:15:30 <Relaxer> meanwhile the rest of my party has lightsabres or heavy blaster rifles that do 7-15 damage per hit.
06:16:22 <Relaxer> just got wrecked tonight.
06:17:26 <vlahos> kindergarten
06:25:49 <Relaxer> also, looks like thirsty went and wrote his first ever module.
06:25:54 <Relaxer> so that is pretty cool.
07:37:52 <steven> the ones with wizard spell list.
07:48:56 <Brunius> off the top of my head...wizard
07:49:25 <steven> maybe sorcerer
07:50:33 Granville ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
07:50:34 Granville is now known as Stan
07:52:27 <Avatar> and arcanist
07:53:05 <steven> avatar when you gonna run hells vengeance for us?
07:54:01 <Avatar> a week after you run a game for us
07:54:13 <steven> alright!
07:54:28 <steven> thats a deal i can get behind, a whole Ap for one Scenario!
07:54:44 <steven> pick aany scenario ya want.
07:54:53 <Avatar> wait, is it an AP
07:55:06 <steven> Yup
07:55:18 <Avatar> I don't do APs mate
07:55:41 <Brunius> What avatar meant to say was that he'd run hells vengeance after you run a complete AP for us steven
07:56:22 <Avatar> maybe, but that means I'd have to play a full campaign and then run a full campaign
07:56:30 <Avatar> I am not really willing to do either
07:56:50 <steven> im already running two APs, i really want to actually play one.
07:56:54 <Avatar> start with scenarios and then we'll talk
07:57:07 <Avatar> I haven't played any season 7
07:57:47 <steven> Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness
08:23:35 <Avatar> it is an overly powerful spell
08:23:43 <Avatar> everyone knows it is
08:23:51 <Avatar> and yet it came back to an argument over a core rule
08:24:03 <Avatar> two core rules actually
08:24:07 <Avatar> the conjuration subschool
08:24:28 <Mekkis> Sure, that conjuration subschool is the broken bit
08:24:30 <Avatar> the only reason those became an issue is because of this spell and the issue with the spell has been put aside
08:24:47 <Mekkis> (for the record, EFS came out before the conjuration subschool)
08:25:00 <Avatar> I'd never even heard of the idea of blocking in a baddie with you inside the sphere and then teleporting out
08:25:15 <Avatar> the conjuration teleport power is core
08:25:29 <Mekkis> That's not the problematic one
08:25:36 <Avatar> which one is it
08:25:37 <Mekkis> it's the teleport subschool swift-action shift
08:26:27 <Mekkis> (also, you Probably couldn't block in a baddie with you: it's a 5' radius. The caster would need to duck to stay within it.
08:27:04 <Avatar> a 5ft radius is 4 squares
08:27:17 <Mekkis> it's a hemisphere.
08:27:34 <Avatar> that doesn't matter?
08:27:37 <Mekkis> if the caster is 6' tall, it the caster would need to duck.
08:27:39 <Avatar> you both have to duck
08:27:48 <Avatar> they still fit in the square
08:28:18 <Avatar> you can have 4 in there and none of them would be squeezing
08:28:23 <Mekkis> sure, but if the enemy is not ducking...
08:28:30 <Mekkis> !spell emergency force sphere
08:28:31 <diebot> Mekkis, EMERGENCY FORCE SPHERE evocation ([force]) sorcerer/wizard 4 1 immediate action Range: 5 ft. Comp: V Duration: 1 round/level Save: None SR:NoSource: Cheliax Empire Of Devils
08:28:31 <diebot> As wall of force, except you create a hemispherical dome of force with hardness 20 and a number of hit points equal to 10 per caster level. The bottom edge of the dome forms a relatively watertight space if you are standing on a reasonably flat surface. The dome shape means that falling debris (such as rocks from a collapsing ceiling) tend to
08:28:31 <diebot> tumble to the side and pile up around the base of the dome. If you make a DC 20 Craft (stonemasonry), Knowledge (engineering), or Profession (architect or engineer) check, the debris is stable enough that it retains its dome-like configuration when the spell ends, otherwise it collapses. Normally this spell is used to buy time for dealing with
08:28:31 <diebot> avalanches, floods, and rockslides, though it is also handy in dealing with ambushes.
08:28:40 <Mekkis> !spell wall of force
08:28:41 <diebot> Mekkis, WALL OF FORCE evocation ([force]) sorcerer/wizard 5, magus 5 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Comp: V, S, M (powdered quartz) Duration: 1 round /level (D) Save: none SR:noSource: PFRPG Core
08:28:41 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/wall_of_force.html
08:28:52 <Avatar> they're going to be ducking man
08:29:01 <Mekkis> Emphasis on: The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.
08:29:03 <steven> i'm greatly enjoying the LoF, second darkness not so much.
08:29:10 <Mekkis> Why would they duck?
08:29:16 <Mekkis> I'm playing PFS tomorrow...
08:29:30 <Avatar> because that's how they fit in the square
08:29:43 <Mekkis> Why would the enemy duck?
08:30:09 <Mekkis> they would be standing up, breaking the surface of the EFS, which would cause the spell to fail.
08:30:19 <Mekkis> steven, is Labyrinth of Hungry Ghosts good?
08:30:36 <Avatar> that's a really cheesy explanation to make it fail
08:30:39 <Mekkis> congrats, your wizard's just gone toe-to-toe with an enemy and.... wasted a spell.
08:30:39 <steven> i was supposed to GM LoF tonight, but two members were sick.
08:30:49 <Mekkis> Have you seen the picture?
08:30:52 <Avatar> technically you're right
08:30:55 <Mekkis> the wizard is ducking.
08:31:00 <Avatar> but within the rules of pathfinder, they would fit
08:31:12 <Mekkis> the rules of pathfinder do not preclude common sense
08:31:20 <Avatar> they wouldn't interrupt the dome while it's being cast unless they specifically made some action to do so
08:31:26 <Mekkis> Do any 3/4 BAB classes use the wizard list?
08:31:31 <Avatar> they'd have to ready that kind of thing
08:31:38 <Avatar> otherwise they just automatically fit
08:32:04 <Avatar> the wizard has to duck as well but the spell doesn't say that
08:32:05 <Mekkis> the edge of a 5' dome cannot contain a 6' human who isn't taking steps to fit within it
08:32:18 <Avatar> the wizard has to stand in a square, not the centre of the 4 squares, because that's against the rules
08:32:59 <Mekkis> sure, and I'd allow the wizard to duck to fit within it, because he's TRYING to remain within it
08:33:31 <Mekkis> I wouldn't force the enemy within it.
08:33:49 <Mekkis> If the enemy was prone, maybe. If the enemy was small, maybe.
08:34:01 <steven> not that im aware of.
08:34:11 <Avatar> how do you know the wizard isn't pressing themselves against the bad guy to make it work
08:34:34 <Mekkis> We have a term for that. It's called "grapple"
08:34:41 <Avatar> it's not a grapple
08:34:44 <steven> magus i think gets closest
08:34:45 <Avatar> just getting as close as possible
08:34:56 <steven> and Labyrinth is a very challenging module.
08:35:16 <Avatar> how do you know the bad guy isn't at that edge of the square since it's the wizard's turn and he wants to make it as opportune as possible to get the spell off correctly
08:35:18 <steven> scenario
08:35:37 <Mekkis> Time doesn't stop when it isn't your turn
08:35:56 <Avatar> it does as far as action economy goes
08:36:16 <Mekkis> Either way, it doesn't make a 6' creature fit in a 5' dome
08:37:36 <Avatar> medium is 4ft-8ft
08:37:43 <Avatar> maybe the bad guys are 4ft
08:38:44 <Relaxer> seriously wanna playin the evil campaign.
08:38:47 <Avatar> it's ridiculous to try and determine what happens if a willing or unwilling participant is caught on the edge of a round spell unless the spell specifically talks about it
08:38:59 <Avatar> you're the first person who's mentioned that they'd have to duck
08:39:16 <Avatar> medium creatures fit in a 5x5 and the dome is 4 squares
08:39:22 <Avatar> anything else is semantics
08:42:39 <Relaxer> avatar you should run it for us... go go
08:43:06 <Relaxer> just so i can be super fuckin evil
08:57:27 <Relaxer> up
08:57:29 <Relaxer> sup
08:59:31 <Mekkis> oh...
09:00:11 <Mekkis> What about a way for a 3/4 BAB caster to cast a 3rd level wizard spell?
09:00:30 <Avatar`> don't even know what you're talking about
09:00:36 <Mekkis> Hopefully not involving UMD + page of spell knowledge
09:00:48 <Mekkis> or UMD + mnemonic vestments
09:01:29 <steven> pathfinder Savant
09:03:30 <Relaxer> yeah saw those threads.
09:05:00 <Relaxer> honestly efs isnt horrible.
09:05:22 <Relaxer> yeah its possible to trap creatures in it.
09:13:48 <Relaxer> but a lot of people are forgetting you cant immediate action and then swift action out the next turn.
09:13:52 <Avatar> the only thing making it not horrible is it doesn't make bad guys helpless to being killed
09:14:27 <Avatar> which I think is the argument about snowball that mekkis was talking about
09:14:53 <Relaxer> meh, snowball is pretty crazy stupid.
09:23:06 <Relaxer> then again at high levels of play cold resist 30 pretty much nullifies it.
09:31:10 <Mekkis> Relaxer, how do you trap someone in an EFS?
09:32:27 <Mekkis> Avatar, the spell does specifically state it
09:34:57 <Relaxer> cast it next to someone.
09:35:04 <Mekkis> then the spell fails
09:36:19 <Relaxer> nah.
09:36:36 <Mekkis> Emphasis on: The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.
09:36:41 <Relaxer> the person being trapped would probably get a reflex save to dive to one side or the other.
09:37:13 <Mekkis> Or just remain in the path of it and cause the spell to fail
09:37:28 <Relaxer> sure, if they're readying an action to do that.
09:37:56 <Mekkis> What? we need to ready an action to remain where we are?
09:38:42 <Relaxer> to inturrupt the formation of a wall.
09:39:24 <Mekkis> If I were to cast a Wall of force cutting through your square, would you need to ready an action to interrupt it?
09:40:35 <Relaxer> no, you get a reflex save to go to one side or the other.
09:40:46 <Mekkis> no you don't
09:40:48 <Mekkis> the spell fails
09:41:44 <Mekkis> You get a reflex save to go one side or the other when dealing with stuff that damages you, like Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier. You get a reflex save to choose which side of a fully shapable spell, such as Wall of Stone.
09:42:06 <Mekkis> But Wall of Force explicitly says that it fails if it's blocked by a creature or object.
09:43:18 <Relaxer> if it bisects a person square.
09:43:43 <Mekkis> Sure, and a 5' radius hemisphere definitely bisects a square.
09:44:00 <Relaxer> not according to the map
09:44:10 <steven> im going to go make pancakes and then watch demolition man.
09:44:19 <Relaxer> the map deals with 5 ft squares.
09:44:33 <Mekkis> sure, but a 5' radius hemisphere is different to a 10'x10'square, 5' high.
09:44:35 <Relaxer> an effect with a 5 ft radius effects 8 squares
09:45:15 <Mekkis> What do you think about the vigilante?
09:45:47 <Relaxer> a hemisphere would get 4 squares.
09:46:46 <Mekkis> Are you saying that a 5' radius hemisphere is no different to a 10'x10' square, 5' high?
09:47:10 <Relaxer> in terms of the map, yes.
09:47:18 <Mekkis> In terms of the game.
09:47:21 <Mekkis> Not in terms of the map
09:52:56 <steven> its a class that isn't very viable for pfs
10:03:00 <Relaxer> potato potato
10:03:04 <Mekkis> because the two identies don't play well?
10:05:59 <Mekkis> he's talking about Hell's Vengeance
10:06:07 <Mekkis> I was looking at the Warlock archetype
10:07:33 <Mekkis> you don't think there's a difference?
10:10:01 <Mekkis> Also, the illustration of an emergency force sphere clearly shows how small it is, such that the caster is forced to duck
10:10:24 <Relaxer> we're talking about rules interaction applied to a grid sytem that sucks.
10:11:43 <Mekkis> I'm claiming that a 5' hemisphere would definitely intersect the surrounding squares. You're claiming that it wouldn't.
10:13:44 <Relaxer> its a 5ft radius, the map is 5ft squares.
10:13:49 <Relaxer> yeah hells vengeance man. go go
10:14:19 <Mekkis> which means that it would go through a square.
10:14:50 <Relaxer> a fireball is 20ft radius, on the diagonals there should be some portions of the square that also get hit with fire damage. but because of how the grid system works, doesnt.
10:20:41 <Mekkis> and?
10:21:37 <Relaxer> and its the same situation. A fault of the map system.
10:22:48 <Mekkis> The fault lies not only in the map system, it's more in an irrational compulsion of some people to believe that it trumps reality.
10:23:41 <Relaxer> it does trump reality... just like casting fireballs or changing people into ferets
10:24:00 <Mekkis> the rules state that you're casting a fireball.
10:24:10 <Mekkis> The rules state that you're turning someone into a ferret.
10:24:36 <Relaxer> the rules also state a 5ft radius hemisphere is 4 complete 5ft squares.
10:24:46 <Mekkis> The rules do not provide a template for a 5' radius hemisphere.
10:24:57 <Relaxer> because we only count 5ft squares, not partials of squares.
10:25:23 <Relaxer> if you've issue with that, take it to the forums.
10:26:28 <Mekkis> Where does it say that?
10:27:32 <Mekkis> A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.
10:29:59 <Mekkis> And the squeezing rules do cover half-squares.
10:30:18 <Mekkis> Hmmm... Moving to the other hot topic...
10:30:31 <Mekkis> What do you think about the replacing of consumables?
10:40:41 <Relaxer> CRB pg 214
10:40:51 <Relaxer> under Area
10:42:23 <Relaxer> and im in favor of replacement of consumables
10:42:58 <Mekkis> as am I, it's not like it doesn't already happen.
10:43:32 <Mekkis> Also, Andrew Christian will seriously reconsider his participation in PFS if it gets through, and that can't be a bad thing !
10:43:46 <Relaxer> meh, he tends to blow a lot of hot air.
18:42:39 Topic for #d&d is: AEDT (UTC+11:00) || Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au || https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/pathfinder-society-online-collective
18:42:39 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Mon Nov 30 17:40:08 2015
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18:48:16 <Mekkis> !spell Defending Bone
18:49:36 diebot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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