#d&d - 2016-05-10 - AustNet Archive Project

// #d&d — 2016-05-10

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« 2016-05-09 2016-05-11 »
54:46 Ballig2 ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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38:16 mib_xy0y5x ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
38:37 <mib_xy0y5x> Hi
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39:01 mib_xy0y5x ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
39:08 <mib_xy0y5x> Hi
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50:22 mib_xy0y5x ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
50:31 <mib_xy0y5x> Hello
51:13 <mib_xy0y5x> How do I play PF
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38:48 <Relaxer> I actually like this character, its cool.
52:20 <Relaxer> Buffing witch.
56:41 <Relaxer> at level 8, cast blessings of Fervor at level 10+(2d4-1)
56:57 <Relaxer> move fast forevers!
25:51 Nicolette ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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26:32 <Relaxer> today isso boring
59:19 <Avatar> do something fun
59:28 <Avatar> I haven't been bored in 20 years
32:10 <Relaxer> then you must either live the most exciting life or the most banal
11:42 maggot ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
13:34 maggot is now known as andy
25:37 <Avatar> is your regular nick maggot
29:49 <Brunius> only when he's headbangin'
40:07 <Avatar> what does that mean sorry
40:41 <andy>  https://streamable.com/l7el
41:25 <Avatar> I feel like that needs context
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36:46 <Mekkis> Relaxer, everytime Avatar tries to relax, I pay someone to put a bullet through his kitchen
37:42 <Relaxer> sounds legit mekkis
38:29 <Relaxer> getting zero connectivity to battle.net servers...
39:23 <Relaxer> been having nothing but problems with d3 ever since  the new patch.
42:31 <Relaxer> there we go! finally DC'd after 5 minutes.
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53:26 <Avatar> Mekkis I think you've been had
53:32 <Avatar> I've had no bullets through my kitchen
54:36 <Mekkis> shit. I KNEW Trusty John's Low-cost Hitmen sounded too good to be true
55:11 <Avatar> went onto the forums today
55:14 <Mekkis> oh no
55:16 <Mekkis> Which ones?
55:23 <Avatar> was a bit surprised that an argument to ban emergency force sphere
55:27 <Avatar> a clearly overpowered spell
55:33 <Avatar> turned into a FAQ about whether immediate actions are legitimate
55:44 <Mekkis> is it? It's less overpowered than, say, Snowball
56:04 <Avatar> that's comparatively speaking
56:09 <Avatar> it's less powerful than wish
56:16 <Avatar> that doesn't matter
56:19 <Mekkis> that's arguable, actually.
56:23 <Avatar> it is an overly powerful spell
56:31 <Avatar> everyone knows it is
56:39 <Avatar> and yet it came back to an argument over a core rule
56:51 <Avatar> two core rules actually
56:55 <Avatar> the conjuration subschool
57:16 <Mekkis> Sure, that conjuration subschool is the broken bit
57:18 <Avatar> the only reason those became an issue is because of this spell and the issue with the spell has been put aside
57:35 <Mekkis> (for the record, EFS came out before the conjuration subschool)
57:48 <Avatar> I'd never even heard of the idea of blocking in a baddie with you inside the sphere and then teleporting out
58:03 <Avatar> the conjuration teleport power is core
58:16 <Mekkis> That's not the problematic one
58:24 <Avatar> which one is it
58:25 <Mekkis> it's the teleport subschool swift-action shift
59:14 <Mekkis> (also, you Probably couldn't block in a baddie with you: it's a 5' radius. The caster would need to duck to stay within it.
59:52 <Avatar> a 5ft radius is 4 squares
00:05 <Mekkis> it's a hemisphere.
00:22 <Avatar> that doesn't matter?
00:25 <Mekkis> if the caster is 6' tall, it the caster would need to duck.
00:27 <Avatar> you both have to duck
00:36 <Avatar> they still fit in the square
01:06 <Avatar> you can have 4 in there and none of them would be squeezing
01:11 <Mekkis> sure, but if the enemy is not ducking...
01:18 <Mekkis> !spell emergency force sphere
01:19 <diebot> Mekkis, EMERGENCY FORCE SPHERE evocation ([force]) sorcerer/wizard 4 1 immediate action Range: 5 ft.  Comp: V Duration: 1 round/level Save: None SR:NoSource: Cheliax Empire Of Devils
01:19 <diebot> As wall of force, except you create a hemispherical dome of force with hardness 20 and a number of hit points equal to 10 per caster level. The bottom edge of the dome forms a relatively watertight space if you are standing on a reasonably flat surface. The dome shape means that falling debris (such as rocks from a collapsing ceiling) tend to
01:19 <diebot> tumble to the side and pile up around the base of the dome. If you make a DC 20 Craft (stonemasonry), Knowledge (engineering), or Profession (architect or engineer) check, the debris is stable enough that it retains its dome-like configuration when the spell ends, otherwise it collapses. Normally this spell is used to buy time for dealing with
01:19 <diebot> avalanches, floods, and rockslides, though it is also handy in dealing with ambushes.
01:27 <Mekkis> !spell wall of force
01:29 <diebot> Mekkis, WALL OF FORCE evocation ([force]) sorcerer/wizard 5, magus 5 1 standard action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)  Comp: V, S, M (powdered quartz) Duration: 1 round /level (D) Save: none SR:noSource: PFRPG Core
01:29 <diebot> The description is too long to send over IRC. View http://nl.ti4200.info/vpsirc/spells/wall_of_force.html
01:40 <Avatar> they're going to be ducking man
01:49 <Mekkis> Emphasis on: The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.
01:58 <Mekkis> Why would they duck?
02:18 <Avatar> because that's how they fit in the square
02:31 <Mekkis> Why would the enemy duck?
02:56 <Mekkis> they would be standing up, breaking the surface of the EFS, which would cause the spell to fail.
03:23 <Avatar> that's a really cheesy explanation to make it fail
03:26 <Mekkis> congrats, your wizard's just gone toe-to-toe with an enemy and.... wasted a spell.
03:36 <Mekkis> Have you seen the picture?
03:40 <Avatar> technically you're right
03:42 <Mekkis> the wizard is ducking.
03:47 <Avatar> but within the rules of pathfinder, they would fit
04:00 <Mekkis> the rules of pathfinder do not preclude common sense
04:08 <Avatar> they wouldn't interrupt the dome while it's being cast unless they specifically made some action to do so
04:20 <Avatar> they'd have to ready that kind of thing
04:26 <Avatar> otherwise they just automatically fit
04:52 <Mekkis> the edge of a 5' dome cannot contain a 6' human who isn't taking steps to fit within it
04:52 <Avatar> the wizard has to duck as well but the spell doesn't say that
05:06 <Avatar> the wizard has to stand in a square, not the centre of the 4 squares, because that's against the rules
05:46 <Mekkis> sure, and I'd allow the wizard to duck to fit within it, because he's TRYING to remain within it
06:18 <Mekkis> I wouldn't force the enemy within it.
06:36 <Mekkis> If the enemy was prone, maybe. If the enemy was small, maybe.
06:58 <Avatar> how do you know the wizard isn't pressing themselves against the bad guy to make it work
07:22 <Mekkis> We have a term for that. It's called "grapple"
07:29 <Avatar> it's not a grapple
07:33 <Avatar> just getting as close as possible
08:04 <Avatar> how do you know the bad guy isn't at that edge of the square since it's the wizard's turn and he wants to make it as opportune as possible to get the spell off correctly
08:25 <Mekkis> Time doesn't stop when it isn't your turn
08:44 <Avatar> it does as far as action economy goes
09:03 <Mekkis> Either way, it doesn't make a 6' creature fit in a 5' dome
10:24 <Avatar> medium is 4ft-8ft
10:31 <Avatar> maybe the bad guys are 4ft
11:35 <Avatar> it's ridiculous to try and determine what happens if a willing or unwilling participant is caught on the edge of a round spell unless the spell specifically talks about it
11:47 <Avatar> you're the first person who's mentioned that they'd have to duck
12:03 <Avatar> medium creatures fit in a 5x5 and the dome is 4 squares
12:09 <Avatar> anything else is semantics
30:15 <Relaxer> up
30:16 <Relaxer> sup
36:18 <Relaxer> yeah saw those threads.
37:47 <Relaxer> honestly efs isnt horrible.
38:10 <Relaxer> yeah its possible to trap creatures in it.
46:36 <Relaxer> but a lot of people are forgetting you cant immediate action and then swift action out the next turn.
46:40 <Avatar> the only thing making it not horrible is it doesn't make bad guys helpless to being killed
47:14 <Avatar> which I think is the argument about snowball that mekkis was talking about
47:40 <Relaxer> meh, snowball is pretty crazy stupid.
55:54 <Relaxer> then again at high levels of play cold resist 30 pretty much nullifies it.
03:57 <Mekkis> Relaxer, how do you trap someone in an EFS?
05:14 <Mekkis> Avatar, the spell does specifically state it
07:45 <Relaxer> cast it next to someone.
07:51 <Mekkis> then the spell fails
09:07 <Relaxer> nah.
09:23 <Mekkis> Emphasis on: The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.
09:29 <Relaxer> the person being trapped would probably get a reflex save to dive to one side or the other.
10:00 <Mekkis> Or just remain in the path of it and cause the spell to fail
10:16 <Relaxer> sure, if they're readying an action to do that.
10:44 <Mekkis> What? we need to ready an action to remain where we are?
11:30 <Relaxer> to inturrupt the formation of a wall.
12:11 <Mekkis> If I were to cast a Wall of force cutting through your square, would you need to ready an action to interrupt it?
13:23 <Relaxer> no, you get a reflex save to go to one side or the other.
13:33 <Mekkis> no you don't
13:35 <Mekkis> the spell fails
14:31 <Mekkis> You get a reflex save to go one side or the other when dealing with stuff that damages you, like Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier. You get a reflex save to choose which side of a fully shapable spell, such as Wall of Stone.
14:54 <Mekkis> But Wall of Force explicitly says that it fails if it's blocked by a creature or object.
16:06 <Relaxer> if it bisects a person square.
16:30 <Mekkis> Sure, and a 5' radius hemisphere definitely bisects a square.
16:47 <Relaxer> not according to the map
17:07 <Relaxer> the map deals with 5 ft squares.
17:20 <Mekkis> sure, but a 5' radius hemisphere is different to a 10'x10'square, 5' high.
17:23 <Relaxer> an effect with a 5 ft radius effects 8 squares
18:35 <Relaxer> a hemisphere would get 4 squares.
19:33 <Mekkis> Are you saying that a 5' radius hemisphere is no different to a 10'x10' square, 5' high?
19:58 <Relaxer> in terms of the map, yes.
20:05 <Mekkis> In terms of the game.
20:09 <Mekkis> Not in terms of the map
35:48 <Relaxer> potato potato
40:20 <Mekkis> you don't think there's a difference?
42:48 <Mekkis> Also, the illustration of an emergency force sphere clearly shows how small it is, such that the caster is forced to duck
43:12 <Relaxer> we're talking about rules interaction applied to a grid sytem that sucks.
44:31 <Mekkis> I'm claiming that a 5' hemisphere would definitely intersect the surrounding squares. You're claiming that it wouldn't.
46:31 <Relaxer> its a 5ft radius, the map is 5ft squares.
47:07 <Mekkis> which means that it would go through a square.
47:38 <Relaxer> a fireball is 20ft radius, on the diagonals there should be some portions of the square that also get hit with fire damage. but because of how the grid system works, doesnt.
53:28 <Mekkis> and?
54:25 <Relaxer> and its the same situation.  A fault of the map system.
55:36 <Mekkis> The fault lies not only in the map system, it's more in an irrational compulsion of some people to believe that it trumps reality.
56:29 <Relaxer> it does trump reality... just like casting fireballs or changing people into ferets
56:47 <Mekkis> the rules state that you're casting a fireball.
56:57 <Mekkis> The rules state that you're turning someone into a ferret.
57:24 <Relaxer> the rules also state a 5ft radius hemisphere is 4 complete 5ft squares.
57:33 <Mekkis> The rules do not provide a template for a 5' radius hemisphere.
57:44 <Relaxer> because we only count 5ft squares, not partials of squares.
58:10 <Relaxer> if you've issue with that, take it to the forums.
59:15 <Mekkis> Where does it say that?
00:19 <Mekkis>    A sphere-shaped spell expands from its point of origin to fill a spherical area. Spheres may be bursts, emanations, or spreads.
02:47 <Mekkis> And the squeezing rules do cover half-squares.
03:05 <Mekkis> Hmmm... Moving to the other hot topic...
03:18 <Mekkis> What do you think about the replacing of consumables?
13:28 <Relaxer> CRB pg 214
13:39 <Relaxer> under Area
15:11 <Relaxer> and im in favor of replacement of consumables
15:45 <Mekkis> as am I, it's not like it doesn't already happen.
16:20 <Mekkis> Also, Andrew Christian will seriously reconsider his participation in PFS if it gets through, and that can't be a bad thing !
16:34 <Relaxer> meh, he tends to blow a lot of hot air.
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