// #d&d — 2014-11-16
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03:01:49 <Avatar> maybe you read it
03:24:31 <Steven> not that either
03:38:18 <jand> Hello, anyone home?
03:38:23 <Avatar> yep
03:39:20 <Steven> yup
03:42:48 <jand> Hello
03:43:35 <Avatar> what's going on
03:43:46 <jand> Not all to much :)
03:43:54 <jand> You?
03:43:57 <Avatar> cool
03:44:07 <Avatar> I am going out soon
03:44:31 <Steven> say what?
03:44:38 <Steven> avatar doesnt leave the house.
03:44:48 <jand> Haha, where are you off to?
03:45:07 <Avatar> I don't have a laundry
03:45:54 <Brunius> `op
03:46:18 <Steven> lies! avatar doesnt wear clothes!
03:46:26 <Avatar> mate
03:47:04 <Steven> so what up?
03:47:27 <Steven> i dunno bout you guys but im having chili verde
03:47:42 <Avatar> I had a Salad
03:48:39 <Steven> salad can be good.
03:48:48 <Avatar> salad is always good
03:48:55 <Avatar> you can make friends with salad
03:49:09 <Steven> my body doesnt handle that much leafy vegitables well.
03:49:40 <Steven> like i can have a little bit of spinach but any more then that and my stomach just gets upset.
03:50:34 <Avatar> if I ever get like that my life is basically over
03:50:44 <Avatar> I eat salad usually twice a day
03:50:57 <Steven> yeah, i just dont eat that much.
03:51:04 <Avatar> neither do I
03:51:53 <Steven> the last salad i ate was a pear and goatcheese salad w/ walnuts and spinach
03:52:10 <Steven> It was awesome.
03:52:21 <Steven> i made it.
03:52:27 <jand> Sandwich for me
03:52:39 <jand> Avacado, ham and cherry tomato
03:52:45 <jand> toasted
03:52:45 <Steven> but i only got to have a little bit because otherwise upset stomach.
03:54:32 <Steven> now i kinda want a little salad.
03:55:03 <jand> I could go for a kebab personally
03:55:35 <Avatar> mmm avocado
03:57:12 <Steven> with my chili verde i had some guacamole
03:58:01 <jand> Now I really want to go and get a kebab, but I have had far to many of them recently
05:49:15 <Avatar> the VO isn't there, but you are
05:49:55 <Steven> I'd tell the table GM to make a decision and run with it.
05:50:53 <Steven> so long as the game continues in a timely fashion all other issues can be handled after the game... even giving the guy a free raise dead.
05:52:03 <Avatar> strange that it's not a fleshed out issue
05:52:14 <Steven> because its a table issue.
05:52:17 <Steven> Mistakes happen.
05:52:27 <Steven> even to 5 star VOs.
05:52:30 <Avatar> yeah but people like that guy don't even know what his options are
05:52:55 <Avatar> also strange that people aren't made more aware that VOs are really just event organisers
05:53:34 <Steven> alright, so i tell him you can keep him dead or bring him back to life and revisit the issue post game.
05:53:50 <Steven> but that he just needs to make a decision and enforce it.
05:54:26 <Steven> we also handle disputes.
05:55:05 <Avatar> as moderators
05:55:33 <Steven> yeah, we can make rulings so long as they are in line with what the rules say.
05:55:37 <Avatar> why do some people think GMs don't have the control to make rulings like that
05:55:49 <Avatar> I mean even for some player decisions, people will say "you need to check with your VO"
05:55:54 <Avatar> on basic things
05:56:22 <Steven> because then we get people who decide at their table eidolons cannot be healed except by rejuvenate eidolon.
05:56:42 <Avatar> what do you mean
05:56:43 <spider21b> whats the issue?
05:56:50 <Avatar> all sorts of issues
05:57:01 <Avatar> things players can resolve themselves or with other players or with their GM
05:57:13 <Avatar> things that don't need to bog down already bogged down VOs
05:57:21 <Steven> i mean if we leave everything in the hands of GMs with no one to appeal then we get each table having a different ruleset.
05:57:41 <Steven> thats why a lot of people are like 'go talk to the vo'
05:57:45 <Avatar> yeah but I'm not talking about appeals, I'm talking about basic rules
05:57:55 <Avatar> appeals are different
05:58:03 <Steven> because people rule on things differently.
05:58:16 <Avatar> like this guy not knowing what he can do with his players, two guys say "only your VO can give you the word of the lord"
05:58:35 <Steven> yeah, that happens.
05:59:03 <Avatar> I will re-read the bit about VOs in the PFS guide again later
05:59:04 <Steven> and if he brought it to me i'd say here are your options, make a decision, if someone has a problem with that send them to me.
05:59:14 <Avatar> I'm not sure where that culture has come from
05:59:43 <Steven> alright so, i heard of a case
06:00:10 <Avatar> actually, this didn't occur to me, that was very similar to the case we had in the waking rune
06:00:14 <Steven> Eidolons. Can they benefit from the Infernal healing spell.
06:00:25 <Avatar> no
06:00:34 <Avatar> something about uh
06:00:44 <Steven> Why not? my last table GM allowed it!
06:00:48 <Avatar> I dont' think it's an outsider thing
06:00:56 <Avatar> you can only get fast healing from the evolution?
06:01:30 <Avatar> are you playing devil's advocate? or what
06:01:51 <Avatar> oh wait, they don't naturally heal
06:02:02 <Steven> im just showing an example of how different people rule different things.
06:02:16 <Avatar> that's a table variation thing
06:02:33 <Steven> exactly.
06:02:45 <Avatar> I don't think that's the same thing
06:03:00 <Steven> its an example.
06:03:08 <Avatar> you can point to rules about that
06:03:13 <Avatar> maybe not a good example
06:03:29 <Avatar> a better example would be "I'm pointing to rules where I can do this, but the GM still didn't let me"
06:03:31 <Steven> There are actually rules to support both sides of the argument
06:03:51 <Avatar> I don't know enough about it then
06:05:18 <Steven> on one side "The eidolon does not heal naturally." on the other there is an evolution that gives fasthealing that states "The eidolon heals 1 point of damage each round, just like natural healing." But it does not modify the Eidolon
06:05:41 <Steven> well at least not the eidolon's does not heal naturally line.
06:06:08 <spider21b> hi avatar
06:06:19 <Avatar> I read that as table variation
06:06:32 <Steven> so there is a 4 point evolution that can be completely negated by a GM's table variation.
06:06:35 <spider21b> do you want to see a character i made for kingmaker homebrew?
06:06:50 <Avatar> no thanks
06:07:16 <spider21b> ok thats cool
06:07:46 <Avatar> that's the kind of thing that's in the player's best interests to check with the GM before they start playing
06:08:39 <Steven> and lets say a party dies because the eidolon gets poofed by 1 point of damage that would otherwise be healed because of some otherwise perfectly legal tactics and game.
06:09:00 <Steven> well, they take it to the VO.
06:09:32 <Avatar> that's an appeal
06:10:07 <Steven> thats a VO having to make a ruling on how an ability works.
06:10:28 <Avatar> but appeals are pretty absolutely handled by VOs
06:10:32 <Steven> VOs are the grease.
06:10:49 <Avatar> even then, you can still have an appeal with the GM
06:10:58 <Steven> well usually we are the grease... sometimes we are the sand.
06:10:58 <Avatar> presumably you've already done that
06:11:22 <Steven> well hopefully... and in a reasonable situation people compromise.
06:11:52 <Steven> but some people do love to be intractable
06:12:15 <Steven> there is a GM that i get emails about because he is one of my local players/GMs
06:12:18 <Steven> from people online.
06:12:48 <Steven> and its basically them ranting about how horrible a job i have done in 'training' this GM.
06:12:58 <Avatar> wow
06:13:06 <spider21b> i always thought the role of the gm or dm was to be the game maker or runner like a designer of a video game
06:13:16 <Steven> because you know... i'm responsible for other peoples behavior
06:14:54 <Steven> This GM has good rules knowledge but he lacks personal skills and had a tendency to try to win combats as a GM instead of providing a story/roleplaying experience.
06:15:26 <Steven> so, i got emails. I always forwarded them to the online VOs.
06:16:36 <Steven> alright... so enough talking shop... lets do something fun instead.
06:17:11 <Steven> I'm playing in a running of Emerald Spire
06:17:19 <Steven> not for pfs.
06:17:25 <spider21b> side question if at first level you didn't choose yoru Favored Class bounus can you choose a class at level 2 if you muiltclassed?
06:17:42 <spider21b> sounds fun
06:17:46 <Steven> you choose a favored class at character creation.
06:17:51 <Steven> it can be any class.
06:17:59 <Steven> well... except prestige classes.
06:18:13 <Steven> and whenever you gain a level in that class you get the bonus.
06:18:39 <spider21b> but i didn't pick on at level one
06:18:57 <Steven> you technically have to pick one... retcon it to make it legal.
06:19:06 <spider21b> its homebrew so idk
06:19:15 <spider21b> you got a point
06:19:23 <spider21b> it would be rouge ugg
06:20:35 <Steven> So the group make up, Necromancy Wizard. Undead Lord Cleric, Fighter, Something else i cant remember, and my character who is a customized class.
06:20:57 <Steven> Its basically a feral hunter, but instead of getting the animal aspects i get the Verminous Hunter Aspects.
06:21:15 <Steven> and Vermin Empathy
06:21:18 <spider21b> so its full
06:21:38 <Avatar> spider21b: did you give your first class a favoured class bonus
06:21:41 <Avatar> to hp or skill points
06:21:48 <Steven> we are all NE characters
06:22:14 <spider21b> hp
06:22:29 <Avatar> then your first level class is your favoured class
06:22:55 <Steven> everyone in the party but me worships urgathoa, and i worship Appolyon.
06:23:22 <Steven> now... what should i build for when i die, because i dont see this character surviving much longer.
06:23:36 <Avatar> a rogue
06:23:39 <Steven> gotta fit in with a bunch of urgathoans.
06:23:44 <Steven> I already built a rogue avatar!
06:23:50 <Avatar> buy the rogue a ring of invisibility
06:23:53 <Steven> I dont need to build another one!
06:23:54 <Avatar> it can be your precious
06:24:26 <Steven> why would i buy a ring of invisibility when there is a better ring out there.
06:25:23 <Avatar> what's that
06:25:44 <Steven> Decoy ring.
06:27:01 <Avatar> ah ye olde decoy ring
06:27:07 <Avatar> do you think you can withdraw even in empty space
06:27:12 <Steven> no.
06:27:17 <Avatar> okay
06:27:40 <Steven> you have to be in melee combat with someone.
06:27:56 <spider21b> i see?
06:28:16 <Avatar> I suggested that ring to stephen, he bought it, and he didn't end up using it and sort of wondered whether he should have got it
06:28:28 <Steven> http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Withdraw
06:28:40 <Steven> with fast getaway its broken as fuck
06:29:05 <Steven> sneak attack, withdraw invisibly to another square threatening the creature.
06:29:07 <Avatar> what is fast getaway
06:29:42 <Steven> next round, sneak attack, withdraw invisibly to another square threatening the creature... rinse repeat
06:30:03 <Avatar> holy shit
06:30:19 <Avatar> how does a bad guy deal with that
06:30:27 <Steven> see invisibility?
06:30:53 <Avatar> PFS bad guys don't have see invisibility
06:31:05 <Steven> or he readies an attack when the person becomes visible after the attack but before the withdraw
06:32:39 <Steven> alright.... so time to craft a replacement character.
06:32:41 <Steven> not a rogue
06:32:48 <Steven> gotta be evil.
06:32:59 <Avatar> a slayer
06:33:13 <spider21b> or investigator?
06:33:16 <Steven> and no CE/Antipaladin
06:33:17 <spider21b> or a bloodrager?
06:33:28 <Avatar> don't tell me you can't make an evil slayer
06:33:40 <Steven> sadly we have a prohibition on bloodragers, summoners, and gunslingers.
06:33:47 <Steven> and by sadly i mean thankfully
06:34:07 <Avatar> are bloodragers broken?
06:34:13 <Avatar> why are they so popular
06:34:15 <Steven> no... not at all.
06:34:29 <Steven> /end sarcasm
06:35:28 <Steven> so cant have an endgame plan that exceeds level 12
06:35:56 <spider21b> muiltclass your own way fighter with somthing?
06:36:13 <Steven> we already have 2 frontliners
06:37:10 <Avatar> what about bolt ace
06:37:25 <Avatar> andrei suggested I retrain my musket master to a bolt ace
06:37:32 <Avatar> that isn't feasable
06:37:57 <Avatar> you can't retrain a bad ass guy who loves guns into a guy who suddenly now likes crossbows
06:38:01 <Steven> bolt ace have problems.
06:38:09 <Avatar> does it?
06:38:10 <Steven> im waiting for them to fix em.
06:38:14 <Avatar> what problems
06:38:24 <Avatar> I was considering making one
06:38:53 <Steven> well... they still get a gun for one.
06:39:48 <Avatar> bonus
06:39:49 <Avatar> !
06:40:18 <Steven> yeah, but its dumb.
06:40:34 <Steven> in the class description they dont like guns... but still get one?
06:40:35 <Avatar> let's pretend it's not dumb
06:40:39 <Avatar> what else is wrong with them
06:40:59 <Steven> go to paizo, type in bolt ace.
06:43:20 <Steven> suppose i could build my hawkeye character as backup.
06:44:53 <Avatar> hmmm ok
06:45:02 <Steven> Urban barbarian w/ a bow he cant really use unless he is raging.
06:45:10 <Avatar> I wouldn't mind changing my investigator into a bolt ace
06:45:18 <Avatar> my going-nowhere investigator
06:45:39 <Avatar> I like the concept of the investigator, but it seems a bit hopeless in a campaign like PFS
06:46:04 <Steven> yeah bolt ace is still a solid class, i just dont want to play one right now until they either fix it or say its not going to be tinkered with.
06:46:38 <Avatar> has anyone on the design team said anything about it
06:50:32 <Steven> nope.
06:52:14 <Steven> alrighty... time to pick a race.
06:52:38 <Steven> outiders are a no no.
06:52:56 <Steven> but pretty much everything else is alright
06:53:24 <Avatar> that's easy, human
06:53:58 <Steven> no thanks...
06:54:01 <Avatar> the idea of playing a human already makes me want to roll up a character for no good reason
06:54:05 <Steven> I'll be a slave then.
06:54:21 <Avatar> well this is the first you've mentioned of humans being slaves in your campaign
06:54:59 <Steven> well... thats just how the necromancer and undead cleric are.
06:55:21 <Steven> they 'bought' the half orc
06:55:28 <Steven> with their starting gold.
06:55:53 <spider21b> really?
06:55:58 <spider21b> thats odd
06:56:13 <Steven> yeah.
06:56:42 <spider21b> what do they use him for?
06:56:51 <Steven> meat shield
06:57:12 <Steven> 1st level he has like 16 hit points and a 20ac
06:58:32 <Steven> my current character is a dhampir
06:59:46 <Steven> mid combat i've stopped fighting to pick up an unconcious NPC and drink their blood. Mechanically i switch over to Worm Aspect and gain fasthealing 1
07:00:14 <Steven> the character is just a solid all around character
07:00:40 <Steven> decent AC, decent Hp, decent saves, has ranged and melee capabilities.
07:01:01 <Steven> so, if it dies, well you gotta come back with something better because it obviously wasnt cuttin the mustard
07:08:37 <spider21b> random question since i have a familar what can i do with it since i dont have spells?
10:13:00 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: TBA || WotW: TBA || All topic times are AEDT (UTC+11:00); set your timezone on the site to see your local times in the Schedule! | Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
10:13:00 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sat Oct 25 07:44:13 2014
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15:58:50 <mib_ns28j8> jk
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16:07:35 <Avatar> do any of listen to know direction
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22:59:12 <Steven> im buyin a damascus steel kukri for christmas.
23:12:17 <Mekkis> oh. who's the victim?
23:20:50 <Steven> i dont watch it.
23:29:38 <Steven> my wallet
23:48:49 <Mekkis> fair enough
23:49:05 <Mekkis> I'm really tempted to buy a pair of flaming swords for christmas
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