// #d&d — 2014-10-30
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00:30:27 Topic for #d&d is: PFS: TBA || WotW: TBA || All topic times are AEDT (UTC+11:00); set your timezone on the site to see your local times in the Schedule! | Pathfinder Online http://www.pfrpg.com.au
00:30:27 Topic for #d&d set by Avatar at Sat Oct 25 07:44:13 2014
00:30:27 <***> Buffer Playback...
00:30:27 <***> Playback Complete.
00:33:15 Mekkis sets mode -R Mekkis
00:40:10 <Mekkis> !spell paragon surge
00:40:16 <diebot> Mekkis, PARAGON SURGE transmutation (polymorph[]) alchemist 3, cleric/oracle 3, magus 4, paladin 4, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3, bloodrager 3 1 standard action Range: personal (half-elf only) Comp: V, S Duration: 1 minute/level Save: SR:Source: Advanced Race Guide
00:40:16 <diebot> You surge with ancestral power, temporarily embodying all the strengths of both elvenkind and humankind simultaneously, and transforming into a paragon of both races, something greater than elf or human alone. Unlike with most polymorph effects, your basic form does not change, so you keep all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of your
00:40:16 <diebot> half-elven form as well as all of your gear. For the duration of the spell, you receive a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity and Intelligence and are treated as if you possessed any one feat for which you meet the prerequisites, chosen when you cast this spell.
00:44:00 <Mekkis> Is it considered cheesy to use a Ring of Continuation to allow you to use Paragon Surge to emulate all the other crafting feats?
00:49:57 <Mekkis> Anyone up for some... um... superspeedruns using Occult Adventure classes?
00:51:56 <Mekkis> I intend to run Fallen Fortress, Confirmation, We Be Goblins, First Steps 1, and Godsmouth Heresy. I intend to have it finished in 15 minutes.
00:58:58 <Steven> yo
01:04:57 <Steven> hey avatar.
01:05:49 <Steven> how are you feeling about the occult classes.
01:06:01 <Steven> I had the opportunity to play one tonight
01:06:14 <Steven> level 6 psychic
01:23:57 <Steven> i am not too happy bout the timing of this playtest.
01:24:37 <Steven> the meta is just now beginning to stabilize from the ACGs introduction
01:25:15 <Steven> and now we are getting it shaken up again.
01:42:29 <Avatar> occult classes
01:42:38 <Avatar> they are better than I originally expected them to be
01:42:46 <Avatar> I thought they would be all about devil worship and whatnot
01:42:59 <Avatar> but they are basically psionics that aren't psionic
01:43:02 <Avatar> which is cool
01:43:12 <Avatar> having said that, they don't feel like regular classes either
01:43:21 <Avatar> possibly only because I don't understand them very well
01:43:44 <Avatar> I'm having trouble wrapping my head around a con-based caster that burns hit points to empower spell likes
01:45:08 <Steven> yeah that one is really fuckin strong.
01:45:44 <Avatar> I was really only looking at the aeather kineticist
01:45:57 <Avatar> because I like the idea of a character that specialises in nothing but telekinesis
01:46:15 <Avatar> which is a little different from your run of the mill transmutation wizard, I guess
01:46:26 <Avatar> or sorcerer
01:46:36 <Avatar> but I don't know how viable the mechanics are
01:46:43 <Avatar> it's *so* weird
01:47:27 <Steven> yeah. we were talking about how to break the class pretty hardcore.
01:47:37 <Steven> at the shop tonight
01:48:50 <Avatar> I think so but I went straight back to sleep
01:48:58 <Avatar> I remember hearing it, so I must have briefly woken up to it
01:49:15 <Avatar> I saw there was uh, foe throw
01:49:20 <Avatar> I don't know if that's a spell or what it is
01:49:40 <Avatar> but I saw 'fortitude negates' on it, and thought not being able to use that on undead would be rather shit
01:49:51 <Avatar> I'm glad mark said they'd look at some sort of exemption for that
01:50:21 <Avatar> being able to throw enemies is like my d&d dream but has always been ring of telekinesis cost-prohibitive
01:50:37 <Avatar> that and a ring of invisibility rogue, which I've already crossed off my bucket list
01:51:55 <Steven> so the psychic gets a suffocation spell that is will based... its broken as fuck imo.
01:52:23 <Steven> they get a bonus if they are above bloodied.
01:52:39 <Steven> but it is will save so vs martial classes its awesome
01:54:39 <Avatar> it's so hard to wrap my head around another 5 new classes when I still haven't wrapped my head around the 10 in the ACG
01:55:07 <Steven> yeah, that is a pretty big complaint walter and i had.
01:55:27 <Steven> its like we havent even gotten stabalized and now they are putting out more.
01:56:41 <Avatar> I appreciate that the whole process isn't easy
01:56:57 <Avatar> not being published until next gencon
01:57:03 <Avatar> and needing the playtest data
01:57:36 <Avatar> like maybe we SHOULD be used to the new classes by now? since it's been that long since the ACG playtest was out, I dunno
02:04:45 <Avatar> I didn't realise the chronicle wants you to play higher tier scenarios as part of the list
02:04:47 <Avatar> that's insane
02:05:05 <Avatar> 9 scenarios including two level 7s in the space of a month
02:08:43 <Steven> modules i guess... i think our group is going to run through emerald spire
02:09:30 <Steven> i would love to stay up and talk, but im dead tired man... i got really shitty sleep yesterday... night mang
02:12:00 <Avatar> gg
02:16:50 <Avatar> there is one guy on the PFS facebook group who just never stops posting new threads
02:29:31 <s_gmusic> Thinking of making a Human Lunar Oracle 1/Iroran Paladin X for a home game. I'd be starting at lvl 4 with about 4000 gold to spend.
02:30:01 <Brunius> There's a couple of people like that in every group, I've found
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02:48:22 <Avatar> ok go!
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02:51:16 <s_gmusic> I'm iffy on it because I can't find a source of continuous CHA to damage or to-hit, like Agile and Finesse does.
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03:34:02 <Whitey> so, I've been hanging out in this room for a little while now and skimming over the conversation every now and then... Do you guys actually play Pathfinder in here, or is this a post-game/pre-game discussion room?
03:34:10 <Whitey> I was hoping to idle in a room where a game is played :)
03:34:58 Steven ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
03:37:24 <Brunius> We used to play pathfinder
03:37:27 <Brunius> now we hate fune
03:37:29 <Brunius> fun even
03:38:39 <Mekkis> what I'm saying, Avatar, is that generally as a spontaneous caster, you're not low on spell slots
03:39:04 <Avatar> that is a filthy lie
03:39:13 <Avatar> I ran out of spell slots
03:39:57 <Mekkis> at high levels?
03:40:30 <Avatar> yeah
03:40:35 <Avatar> well, mid-levels I guess
03:40:45 <Mekkis> single-classed?
03:40:50 <Avatar> bards aren't full spellcasters
03:41:03 <Avatar> I think I was a 5 or 6 bard at the time
03:41:34 <Avatar> I guess it could be due to shitty spell selection
03:41:46 <Avatar> saving finale is one of the best spells in the game after all
03:41:50 <Mekkis> they're full enough. And you can always use higher-level slots to compensate
03:41:57 <Avatar> it's not like it's rounds/level or mins/level
03:42:00 <Avatar> it's single use
03:42:16 <Mekkis> Sure, but how often do your friends fail saves?
03:42:27 <Mekkis> that they really care about
03:42:31 <Avatar> when they have to make constant saves, it's vital
03:42:47 <Avatar> it happened again in another recent scenario I played
03:42:53 <Avatar> different character though
03:42:54 <Mekkis> not vital. They'll just fail it again
03:43:04 <Avatar> it's like the fortune hex
03:43:12 <Avatar> they won't "just fail it again"
03:43:31 <Avatar> 2x chance to save is amazing
03:45:24 <Mekkis> not vital
03:46:15 <Avatar> essential
03:48:53 <Mekkis> if it's essential, then everyone would play a bard. They're not
03:49:20 <Avatar> it is basically essential
03:51:49 <Avatar> Steven: how important is saving finale to a bard
03:52:04 <Avatar> hoping to idle in a room where a game is played was your first problem
03:52:13 <Avatar> what you should be doing is rolling up a character and playing
03:52:39 <Avatar> otherwise you're one of the ones that looks like you hate fun
03:53:12 <Steven> it is pretty awesome spell
03:53:30 <Avatar> but how important is it
03:54:08 <Steven> like any spell, depends on the situation
03:54:20 <Avatar> it is basically essential
03:54:47 <Steven> if you never run into a situation that someone fails a save then its a horrible save.
03:54:50 <Steven> spell even
03:55:22 <Avatar> you always run into situations where someone fails a save
03:57:12 <Brunius> fun is dumb
03:57:14 <Steven> iunno... sometimes you dont run into a caster.
03:57:40 <Steven> and most other saves are annoying, but really are just resource sinks
03:58:01 <Avatar> brunius likes openly demonstrating his hatred for fun
03:58:09 <Brunius> FUN IS DUMB
03:58:09 <Avatar> don't be like him, play !
03:59:01 <Avatar> so what other bard spells would you put above saving finale
04:00:59 <Steven> liberating cmmand.
04:01:18 <Avatar> so you think you'll land in a grapple more often than you'll have to make a save
04:01:35 <Steven> they happen bout even really.
04:01:41 <Avatar> is this a joke
04:01:57 <Steven> no.
04:03:07 <Steven> the only time i ever bust out saving finalle on my bard is when we are in a fight and either someone is going to flat out die from a spell or the high dpr character just got dominated.
04:04:30 <Avatar> you don't use saving finale when someone in your party fails a save?
04:04:38 <Avatar> it is a no brainer
04:05:00 <Whitey> hah, I already have a weekly pathfinder game on a saturday :)
04:05:07 <Whitey> I more want to look over one for ideas and tips!
04:05:21 <Steven> other then that saving finale is a horrible spell... it sets the bard behind of action economy because they've expended their immediate action which eats their swift action for next round and ALSO ends their performance meaning everyone is a bit less awesome and they have to restart performance.
04:06:12 <Steven> so unless its something huge... people can deal with status effects that arent going to kill them or another person in the group.
04:07:54 <Avatar> what self respecting bard doesn't have lingering performance to compensate for that
04:08:03 <Avatar> an essential feat
04:09:16 <Steven> someone who is doing a feat tight build.
04:09:42 <Steven> or someone who doesnt own the apg
04:13:56 <Avatar> those people are exceptions
04:14:00 <Avatar> who doesn't own the apg
04:14:31 <Steven> hey dont exclude my examples... they were good examples lol
04:14:59 <Avatar> they were good corner cases
04:16:12 <Steven> hey you never said they had to be anything else.
04:18:07 <Mekkis> Brunius, can you suggest any cool items?
04:18:19 <Brunius> cool wow or cool neat to have?
04:19:10 <Mekkis> either.
04:19:29 <Mekkis> Th kind of item that you wish you had, but couldn't justify buying because <boring item> was better
04:21:42 <Mekkis> Brunius, I have 67k and a bunch of crafting feats
04:41:34 <Avatar> pathfinder society?
04:42:20 <Avatar> tell us about your game
04:42:25 <Avatar> show us your paso doblè
04:42:33 <Brunius> but remember, no fun
04:42:48 <Avatar> SHOW us your paso doblè
05:14:02 <Avatar> crafting feats in PFS
05:14:54 <Whitey> lol, not PFS, just a home game :)
05:15:00 <Whitey> running rotrl
05:15:20 <Whitey> I do have a level 2 wizard on PFS, but I haven't gone down to PFS in a while
05:15:31 <Whitey> in fact it's been so long that the store that I used to go to has moved suburbs!
05:17:37 <Brunius> I know this must come as a surprise to you Avatar, but people play games other than PFS
05:18:21 <Avatar> this morning he was talking about this being for mytiazair
05:20:06 <Mekkis> !rng spud jereko worzel
05:20:07 <diebot> Mekkis, spud
05:21:54 <Mekkis> !throw 1d8
05:21:55 <diebot> Mekkis, 1d8: [1d8=5] 5
05:23:08 <Mekkis> !throw 1d30
05:23:09 <diebot> Mekkis, 1d30: [1d30=2] 2
05:27:01 <Mekkis> Yes
05:27:23 <Mekkis> this evening I'm talking about cool items
05:27:31 <Mekkis> Avatar, have you ever played a spontaneous caster?
06:43:37 <Avatar> yeah, James is an archaeologist
06:46:30 <Avatar> I was quite not-pleased to find out that the finale spells don't work with lingering performance
07:49:21 <Avatar> what is 'the meta'
08:04:59 <Avatar> Mekkis: are you serious about the speedruns
08:22:37 <Mekkis> Avatar, I'm not entirely joking
08:27:21 <Avatar> the correct answer was "of course I'm joking. do you even have to ask"
08:27:31 <Mekkis> Dud you ever actually run out of low-level slots after about 6th level?
08:30:05 <Avatar> I have bad spell choices
08:30:15 <Avatar> I think I ran out of saving finales before I found out I was doing it wrong
08:30:57 <Avatar> chord of shards, hideous laughter, liberating command, saving finale, vanish
08:35:12 <Mekkis> Look, there are two things at play here. Firstly, Paizo is pretty much encouraging people to do it. Secondly, I think the charade that Steven's playing is even worse.
08:42:12 <Avatar> steven
08:42:28 <Steven> sup
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09:35:43 <Steven> what charade am i playing?
10:02:22 <Steven> sup
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11:21:22 <s_gmusic> society super zerg? hm... sounds interesting.
11:25:29 <Steven> sup guys
12:29:38 <Goya> Cheers
12:43:12 <Goya> Damn it. Just went back through chat. I guess I need to order the ACG.
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13:24:49 <Steven> well... sittin down at the shop while people play games.
13:24:53 <Steven> fun times.
13:39:04 <Goya> Better than mindlessly reading news.
13:39:39 <Steven> i read the paizo forums when im doin stuff like this.
13:39:49 <Goya> *nods* That works.
13:39:59 <Steven> still bored as fuck.
13:40:22 <Steven> i'd rather be playing, but dat replay rule...
13:41:10 <Goya> Replay rule
13:41:14 <Goya> ?
13:41:46 <Goya> Cant you replay as GM and player for all missions. Or - maybe that's the problem..
13:43:04 <Goya> You probably have all those and more under your belt..
13:44:25 <Steven> replay was clarified that you cannot play for no credit except to make legal table size.
13:44:26 <Goya> Wait... That sounds bad.
13:44:45 <Steven> both the tables have legal table size.
13:44:50 <Goya> Oh... =/
13:45:07 <Steven> so i'm sittin here reading the forums instead of playing.
13:45:08 <Goya> That sucks.
13:45:14 <Steven> meh... happens.
13:45:25 <Steven> jut boring really
13:45:33 <Goya> Seems like you should be able to play for no credit.
13:45:48 <Goya> Maybe that was being abused. Somehow.
13:45:53 <Steven> not allowed... there was a big discussion.
13:46:15 <Goya> *nods*
13:46:36 <Steven> basically i get to play about once every month.
13:46:45 <Steven> and i GM about once every month
13:47:02 <Steven> but i am down here twice a week.
13:47:52 <Goya> Ouch. =/
13:48:02 <Goya> You can come to Yakima! =P
13:48:43 <Goya> NOT that it would help - but you could start an ALT account.
13:49:20 <Goya> Nobody would know who you are.
13:49:26 <Steven> i would know.
13:49:39 <Steven> cant go breakin the rules mang.
13:49:51 <Goya> True...
13:50:01 <Goya> You can still come to Yakima... =P
13:50:25 <Steven> that sounds like a lot of driving...
13:50:31 <Goya> *nods* True.
13:50:58 <Goya> We have a new gaming shop in town - so hopefully there's some PFS soon.
13:51:14 <Steven> gotta get on that boy!
13:51:44 <Steven> was a blast at paizo havin you at my table.
13:51:52 <Goya> *nods* (though that sounds wrong)
13:52:05 <Goya> We were thrilled to be there. ;)
13:52:19 <Steven> paizocon is usually pretty damn fun.
13:52:40 <Goya> Yeah. Waiting for hotel block to open up.
13:53:00 <Steven> i really like that they moved the dates this year.
13:53:12 <Steven> i always disliked it was july 4th weekend.
13:53:35 <Goya> Indeed. Though - it's really close to both Emerald City Comic Con and Norwescon.
13:54:13 <Steven> well pax overlaps with dragoncon... where women walk around effectively nude after like 10pm
13:54:31 <Goya> Dragoncon? What's that?
13:55:08 <Goya> nvm. Google.
13:55:20 <Steven> its a convention in atlanta georgia
13:55:36 <Goya> Yeah.
13:57:25 <Steven> yeah.... this year i'm going to paizocon, then visiting my brother for a few months before going to gencon.
13:57:39 <Goya> Nice!
13:57:47 <Steven> yeah it will be pretty awesome.
13:57:49 <Goya> Waiting for hotel for Paizo.
13:58:22 <Steven> yeah, wont be long until they open it up.
13:58:29 <Goya> *nods*
13:58:43 <Steven> gonna be so much fun.
13:59:05 <Goya> *nods* It's the highlight of my year.
13:59:21 <Goya> As long as i'm not going to Disneyland. =P
13:59:46 <Steven> i've been there so many times
14:01:04 <Goya> Hehe
14:01:27 <Steven> like 10 times or so.
14:04:26 <Goya> *shakes his head*
14:04:45 <Goya> I wish I could say that. I think...
14:05:05 <Steven> i used to live in southern california, so it wasnt a big deal to drive up there and spend a day or two.
14:07:37 <Goya> I was born in SoCal - raised in NorCal. Somehow ended up in the PNW. ;)
14:09:47 <Goya> Time to head out I suppose. Take care Steven. ;)
14:15:12 <Steven> havea great one mang
14:15:24 <Steven> i'm gonna go make one of the broken ass occult classes
15:52:23 <Steven> so how bout those back to back years of playtesting new characters.
15:53:09 <Mekkis> !spell saving finale
15:53:19 <diebot> Mekkis, SAVING FINALE evocation ([mind-affecting]) bard 1 1 immediate action Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) one living creature Comp: V, S Duration: instantaneous Save: Will negates (harmless) SR:yes (harmless)Source: APG
15:53:20 <diebot> You must have a bardic performance in effect to cast this spell. With a flourish, you can immediately end your bardic performance when a creature within range affected by your bardic performance fails a saving throw, allowing the subject to immediately reroll the failed saving throw.
16:22:19 <Mekkis> !item ring of continuity
16:22:21 <diebot> Mekkis, RING OF CONTINUATION [moderate transmutation] CL:7 ring 56000gp, 0lb
16:22:22 <diebot> This band of braided copper wires throbs ever so slightly in harmony with its wearer's heartbeat. Whenever the wearer of this ring casts a spell with a range of personal, that spell remains in effect for 24 hours or until the wearer casts another spell with a range of personal (whichever comes first). Spells that usually only affect one specific
16:22:22 <diebot> action (such as making a particular attack) are expended after that action. This does not reduce the duration of spells that normally last longer than 24 hours. Casting a new spell does not eliminate a previous spell if its normal duration is such that it would still be in effect. However, attempts to dispel or otherwise eliminate a spell kept
16:22:22 <diebot> active by the ring work normally and, if successful, remove the spell from the ring, causing the wearer to lose all benefits from that spell. Source: Ultimate Equipment
16:34:18 <Avatar> ok so what's news
16:34:42 <Avatar> Mekkis: what charade is steven playing
16:35:24 <Avatar> you're not completely out of line saying paizo is basically encouraging it, except they're not really
16:46:59 <Avatar> http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lgna?Uncover-the-Truth-Occult-Adventures-Playtest
16:49:30 <Steven> sup avatar.
16:49:54 <Steven> and yeah im still wondering what charade im playing.
17:14:57 <Avatar> how can you not know what saving finale is
17:15:01 <Avatar> one of the best spells in the game
17:15:59 <Mekkis> the way it's obviously tracking my spending habits
17:20:25 <Avatar> the last boon on that chronicle is pretty crazy
17:20:38 <Avatar> new third level character from scratch
17:22:09 <Avatar> yeah fly buys does that too
17:22:20 <Avatar> I like it
17:33:29 <Avatar> I can't find the actual playtest pdf
17:37:08 <Mekkis> I think it's worrying to find an email saying that 50% of the stuff I've bought from woolworths over the past year is discounted
17:37:38 <Mekkis> Ummm.. Avatar... Where can I find the real rules for retraining?
17:40:11 <Avatar> ultimate campaign
17:40:21 <Avatar> they're a bit hidden away in the prd, but they're there
17:40:35 <Avatar> it's under downtime, and there's a tiny 'retraining' link in the article
17:40:47 <Mekkis> no, I mean there seems to have been a bunch of rules 'clarifications' (aka errata)
17:40:54 <Mekkis> that I'm not sure about
17:41:05 <Avatar> on what part of retraining
17:41:12 <Avatar> ACG?
17:41:28 <Mekkis> The whole retraining base for prestige class
17:41:29 <Mekkis> stuff
17:42:02 <Avatar> advanced class origins has prestige class requirements for the new classes
17:42:09 <Avatar> I haven't seen anything else on prestige class retraining though
17:42:42 <Mekkis> could I retrain a level of wizard for a level of Arcane Trickster for Mytiazair?
17:44:11 <Avatar> yeah
17:44:19 <Avatar> there's something about "if it's similar enough" you can do it
17:44:20 <Mekkis> cool
17:44:24 <Avatar> wizard is an obvious fit for that
17:44:32 <Avatar> I'll see if I can find the link for you today
17:44:43 <Mekkis> Mytiazair hit 14th yesterday
17:45:44 <Avatar> is that the one you played during waking rune
17:46:35 <Mekkis> no
17:46:40 <Mekkis> that was Deceased
17:53:54 <Avatar> man it is dark here today
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18:17:28 <Mekkis> Steven: the whole "speedrun your way to 2nd level"
18:19:54 <Steven> well ya wanna do it, ya do it, so long as everyone is having fun i dont give a shit.
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19:25:27 <Mekkis> Avatar, you see?
19:27:44 <Mekkis> I am very sceptical about the charisma-based casting that the Kineticist has
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19:55:08 <Brunius> did you get woken up at 2:30 by thunder?
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20:30:49 <Brunius> what up in the hood
20:32:44 <Mekkis> Brunius, I'll be running 5xp worth of replayables. Should take fifteen minutes. Interested?
20:32:52 <Brunius> sure
20:33:13 <Brunius> i'll use it to make all my janky builds level two
20:34:28 <Mekkis> No problem. Want to start now? Choose your pregens.
20:35:19 <Mekkis> We'll start with first steps 1. Congratulations! You win it.
20:37:04 <Brunius> sweet
20:39:22 <Mekkis> Next up: Confirmation. I'll admit that I'm running this cold. I haven't prepped it.
20:39:34 <Mekkis> Congratulations, you win it too!
20:40:07 <Mekkis> Finally, we have Godsmouth Heresy.
20:40:14 <Mekkis> I'll say you win that too.
20:40:23 <Mekkis> What character number do you want me to report against?
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20:50:14 <Brunius> 22870-9
20:51:19 <Mekkis> Sure. What faction?
20:51:27 <Brunius> hmmmmmm
20:51:49 <Brunius> I have no idea how factions are these days, pick one at random
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21:51:32 <Avatar> according to reporting, they are exactly the same as they always were
21:55:11 <Mekkis> true that
23:14:51 <Mekkis> here's a question. If a druid has a Big Cat animal companion, when it advances, does it get grab on all of its attacks?
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