// #eevblog — 2022-08-07
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00:02:39 <watcher> Hello
00:04:47 <electrohead> hey o/
00:09:11 <rust1> HELLO!
00:09:19 <rust1> oh, banned, again. oh well
00:11:44 <electrohead> banned from where?
00:34:45 <electrohead> https://www.fox5dc.com/news/north-carolina-school-district-planning-to-put-ar-15-in-every-school-in-the-event-of-another-school-shooting
00:34:46 <EEVBot> [url] North Carolina school district planning to put AR-15 in every school in the event of another school shooting | www.fox5dc.com
00:36:17 <DHess_US> Was just discussing that. It is security theater.
00:36:39 <DHess_US> The scenario described is already a failure.
00:38:48 <rust_collector> best option is probably to put explosives in every room. yes, that will work
00:39:06 <Ampera> just put explosives on the terrorist
00:39:44 <rust_collector> yes, remember back in the day, when we had proper terrorists, that came with them preinstalled?
00:45:41 <LordGeir> Just like the oldie but goldie "The blow up doll"; There was "The blow up terrorist"
01:11:03 Quit: Icedream ([email protected]) Quit: A lol made me boom.
01:17:21 <Ampera> https://i.imgur.com/lrLKkGf.png
01:27:10 Join: Icedream ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:31:57 Quit: watcher ([email protected]) Quit: i'am out
02:09:11 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:32:54 <LordGeir> Straightening up some of the parts mowers, these are designated: "Boneyard" https://imgur.com/a/PDLpSBF
02:32:54 <EEVBot> [url] Boneyard of parts mowers - Album on Imgur | imgur.com
02:53:59 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:55:05 <rust1> I think you need to put a motor and a drawbar on that mower pan from some tractor, and put it behind a tractor
02:58:13 <LordGeir> I'm amazed that thing isn't rusted to bits, and turned to dirt.
02:59:02 <LordGeir> It's off of a very old Ariens I had, and it was taken off about 10 years ago, and has been in straight weather year round since
03:00:53 <rust1> see? it is as good as new, now you just need a tractor
03:01:34 <LordGeir> I could pull it behind my MTD B/130, making it a double cutter :P
03:02:29 <rust1> yes, ok, you better start. it is not much left uuntil christmas
03:03:06 <LordGeir> I could make it a winter project, to really polish everything up for spring
03:03:22 <rust1> nice and shiny rust is always nice
03:19:23 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:19:33 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o steve30
03:20:02 <steve30> hi
03:20:32 Join: jackbrown ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:23:40 <jackbrown> hey there
03:23:42 <jackbrown> anyone
03:23:46 <steve30> o/
03:26:18 <Kuschelpony> hello
03:26:27 * Ampera sneezes
03:27:23 <jackbrown> Ampera: hello
03:27:26 <jackbrown> simple question
03:27:44 <Ampera> simple answer
03:27:49 <rust1> snarfles
03:28:02 * Ampera sprays deoxit at rust1
03:28:08 <jackbrown> let's say that I have 15 meter lenght to cover and I have to bring a 22kW power 380V three phase (for car charger for example)
03:28:19 <jackbrown> Ampera: how do I calculate cable size ?
03:28:28 <Ampera> with a calculator
03:28:58 <Kuschelpony> the simplest is to not try to calculate, but look in a book of tables made for this purpose
03:29:03 <Ampera> free tables are available online that state the minimum safe diameter ^
03:29:04 * LordGeir crying in laughter
03:29:08 <Ampera> but
03:29:10 <Kuschelpony> 22kW threepahse is 32A
03:29:15 <jackbrown> Ampera: yes but it asked me tension fall or voltage fall something that I dunno
03:29:19 <Ampera> if this is where you are falling down, you might not want to play with 380V 3 phase
03:29:23 <DHess_US> You calculate the current, and then the copper size is the lesser of the allowed voltage drop or temperature rise from power loss.
03:29:40 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: thanks 32A so I need 3 6mm2 wires
03:29:45 <Kuschelpony> in germany here the volatge fall limit is 3%
03:29:51 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: 3 * 6mm2
03:29:55 <Kuschelpony> very likely 5G6²
03:30:00 <Kuschelpony> yes
03:30:08 * Ampera cries in AWG
03:30:09 <EEVBot> ( p′︵‵。)
03:30:23 <Ampera> I have never felt more like kicking the bot than I do now
03:30:24 <jackbrown> Ampera: I'm not play with anything, professional paid they will, I want just to understand
03:30:33 <Kuschelpony> 15 Meters should be stil lwithin the volatge loss limit but i am too lazy to pull out my books
03:30:46 <Ampera> more copper = less heat = less power loss over distance = less fire = more money
03:30:47 <Ampera> ez
03:30:59 <jackbrown> Ampera: I'm still studying that Sunny Island battery inverter project and I'm totally in love withe the SMA Sunny Island inverter IT'S AMAZING
03:31:19 <Ampera> now you're gonna tell me it was your therapist who told you about it
03:31:20 <Kuschelpony> 5G6² is short for three hot wires of 6mm² plus a neutral and a protective earth
03:31:21 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: thanks!
03:31:37 <Kuschelpony> sure always happy to help
03:31:39 * Ampera laughs in 2 phase
03:31:42 <Ampera> neutral? what neutral!
03:31:46 <rust1> did you find an abandoned submarine yet?, to snag the batteries from?
03:31:53 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: 4 wire of 6mm2 aren't enough ?
03:32:11 <Ampera> they can be
03:32:13 <Kuschelpony> uhm i would always use all 5, including neutral
03:32:15 <Ampera> depends on if you want a neutral
03:32:27 <Ampera> for residential applications, I'd presume you do
03:32:35 <jackbrown> rust1: Sunny Island is totally amazing, is capable to work even on Lead Acid battery and a 100kWh LEAD ACID pack will cost ONLY around 6000€ !!!
03:32:35 <Kuschelpony> without neutral, things can happen that you might not laugh bout
03:32:55 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: why no neutral ?
03:33:11 <Kuschelpony> *i* would always use a neutral
03:33:25 <jackbrown> rust1: If you want to put a battery in your home SUNNY ISLAND is the way to go!! better inverter ever!
03:33:33 <Kuschelpony> i meant, i read it you were doubting if its necessary
03:34:20 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: I didn't even think about to exclude the neutral, for my ignorance a three phase wiring is a 4 cable + PE
03:34:23 <Ampera> While the intricacies of 3 phase power is quite outside my range of understanding, neutral, generally, is required when you require a voltage from phase to "ground", as opposed to phase to phase.
03:34:29 <Kuschelpony> aah ok
03:34:40 <Kuschelpony> here in my worls we always count all including PE
03:34:54 <Ampera> in a 2 phase system, this is how you get 120V, but if you do not need 120V from 2 phase, you can just use the two phases, and a protective ground
03:34:57 <Kuschelpony> ampera, im pretty sure you will underatand it as well
03:35:09 <Ampera> I am not even sure if I am saying the right things
03:35:11 <Ampera> if I am, it is a miracle
03:35:20 <jackbrown> I live in Italy e don't have 120V here 220-240
03:35:23 <Kuschelpony> ehm... you dont have two phase (thats dead since world war one) but split phase
03:35:53 <DHess_US> yea, it should be referred to a split phase to avoid confusion.
03:36:04 <Ampera> what if I want to confuse people
03:36:05 <jackbrown> Kuschelpony: yeah split-phase is double mono phase (I didn't even know it's existence before starting to study the Sunny Island)
03:36:12 <Kuschelpony> ampera and threephase is where you have an star with 230v length of the spokes, which is the same as a triangle with 400v length of its sides
03:36:16 <Ampera> in my mind. 2 phase a. sounds cooler b. makes more sense in my mind
03:36:22 <Ampera> and since I am obviously more important than everyone else
03:36:42 <DHess_US> Well, yea, I mean they named the unit of current after you.
03:36:55 <Ampera> ^
03:37:01 <Kuschelpony> i know you americans are very ingenious about supply systems like the high leg delta which provides 120v 208v and 240v in all mixes
03:37:22 <Ampera> I can get the notion of multiple phases, and almost get the notion of the potential between them
03:37:30 <jackbrown> What you guys think about using LEAD ACID battery or AGM to make a big battery pack (around 48kWh or 96kWh)
03:37:30 <Ampera> the moment you start saying things like high leg delta is when I pull up the wikipedia
03:37:46 <Ampera> I know about enough sparky talk to bullshit my way through setting up the average residential install here
03:38:01 <jackbrown> Ampera: ?
03:38:09 <Kuschelpony> ampera, take a sheet of paper and a ruler and draw the star and triangle around
03:38:11 <DHess_US> jackbrown, works fine. There is an entire class of infrastructure built around doing that.
03:38:18 <Kuschelpony> you will literally see the voltages and phases
03:38:30 <Ampera> those words mean nothing to me
03:38:35 <Ampera> I have no concept of stars or triangles, only phases
03:38:39 <jackbrown> DHess_US: it's incredibly cheap compared to LiFePO4
03:38:41 <Kuschelpony> well...
03:38:51 <DHess_US> jackbrown, last time I checked, the TCO was about the same.
03:38:58 <Kuschelpony> draw one point in the middle of your paper, thats the neutral point
03:39:04 <jackbrown> DHess_US: what's TCO ?
03:39:05 <DHess_US> LiFePO4 costs more but lasts longer.
03:39:13 <DHess_US> total cost of ownership.
03:39:24 <Ampera> 3 phase is 180+180+180 of identical potential current. Neutral is typically bound to ground (it is in split phase), and there is a different potential phase to phase as there is phase to ground/neutral
03:39:28 <Kuschelpony> draw one line straight up in 12oclock in units that you see as 230V
03:39:30 <Ampera> that is about all that i know
03:39:32 <DHess_US> So for the same capacity * cycles, they come out about the same price.
03:39:49 <jackbrown> DHess_US: yeah LiFePO4 is the best solution of course but it costs around 300€/kWh
03:40:03 <Kuschelpony> draw one more line rotated 120° and one more line rotated 240° that are your secind and third pahse
03:40:19 <Ampera> *120+120+120
03:40:23 <Ampera> I forgot how much a circle is somehow
03:40:32 <jackbrown> DHess_US: yeah less capacity cicles and you cannot go beneath 50% with Lead Acid so you aren't saving money really with Lead Acid
03:40:34 <DHess_US> Right, lead-acid is cheaper for the same capacity, but when you account for how much power can be transferred over the operating life, they are about the same cost.
03:40:45 <Ampera> Kuschelpony, while I appreciate your explanation, I have absolutely no context for what you are saying.
03:40:59 <Kuschelpony> let me try it tomorrow again...
03:41:00 <Ampera> while I presume you're explaining the technical arrangement of how you'd wire phases, that's not really how my brain works
03:41:16 <jackbrown> DHess_US: do you know anything about Battery inverter for residential use ? I'm evalutating a model from SMA that I think is amazing
03:41:22 <Kuschelpony> i meant you can literaly draw phase angles and phase voltages
03:41:39 <Ampera> a phase angle to me is the horizontal offset on the graph of a sine wave
03:41:58 <Ampera> where 360 degrees == 0 degrees
03:42:18 <Ampera> abstracting it to a circle just hurts my brain
03:42:37 <rust1> so make it a triangle?
03:42:45 <jackbrown> Can I have you attention please? (I'm the real slim shady.... kidding)
03:42:50 * Ampera installs rust1 into a fuse holder
03:42:57 <DHess_US> jackbrown, I evaluated the options a couple years ago.
03:43:13 <jackbrown> DHess_US: why you didn't go for it ?
03:43:33 <DHess_US> Didn't really need it, and the economics were marginal.
03:43:49 <DHess_US> Right now I have a 3KW online UPS which I bought for like $200.
03:43:56 <jackbrown> DHess_US: which battery system did you evaluate ? (I excluded Tesla since i have a three phase house and I want a full 3 phase backup)
03:44:09 <DHess_US> Oh, at the time lead-acid was the only economic option.
03:44:24 <DHess_US> So I was checking out solar+grid tie.
03:44:58 <jackbrown> DHess_US: yes but my system will be solar grid tied, but just in case of need
03:45:11 <DHess_US> A battery system implies use for backup power, but I have a 3kw inverter generator for that also.
03:45:30 <jackbrown> DHess_US: gasoline diesel generator ?
03:45:40 <DHess_US> So I had no need for a solar backup system because I already had backup power.
03:45:51 <DHess_US> And a solar grid-tie system here wouldn't pay off quickly enough.
03:46:12 <jackbrown> DHess_US: got it, I dunno how you cook or heat/cool your house maybe you still use methane propane
03:46:29 <DHess_US> If I was going to do something now, I might get one of those integrated systems for less money.
03:46:41 <jackbrown> DHess_US: indeed I'm doing it because of the italian government incentives, otherwise wouldn't worth the expense
03:46:44 * electrohead stands up
03:46:51 <electrohead> you said the real slim shady
03:46:53 <electrohead> :p
03:46:54 * Ampera sits electrohead's ass down
03:46:55 <electrohead> o/
03:46:58 <jackbrown> electrohead: lol
03:46:59 <electrohead> lmfao
03:47:02 <DHess_US> So solar panels on roof powering inverter/battery box which can also accept power from AC power line, but not feed back.
03:47:02 <Ampera> how are you doing electrohead
03:47:04 <electrohead> hey, haha
03:47:11 <electrohead> Ampera: good here, just got done yard work
03:47:12 <electrohead> yays
03:47:18 <electrohead> how's you and stuff?
03:47:28 <Ampera> I'm alright. Just debating what project I want to work on at the moment
03:48:28 <jackbrown> DHess_US: the battery inverter I want to install has 2 AC input/output 1st for the generator/grid and the 2nd for the microgrid (battery + PV AC )
03:48:57 <jackbrown> DHess_US: in this situation in case the grid will fail the internal relè will commute to battery in 16ms
03:49:02 <jackbrown> basically an UPS almost
03:49:07 <electrohead> yeah I'll be working on the temp antenna mount some more, then
03:49:18 <Ampera> It's a shame 3 phase isn't more common in US residential installs, It means less copper to steal
03:49:18 <jackbrown> But I dunno if in my country this wiring is allowed I dunno were to look at
03:49:38 <electrohead> going to add a 2x4 horizontally, to then have a piece at each end, for adding other antennas and such
03:49:46 <jackbrown> Ampera: in USA only 1 phase for residential, here in my country is more common
03:49:53 <Ampera> split phase
03:49:57 <Ampera> it's not 1 phase
03:50:10 <electrohead> I finally got the ethernet ran for the ham rig/shack yesterday, so I just need to get the rest of the equipment wired up, so I can apply power
03:50:11 <jackbrown> Ampera: don't you have just phase + neutral ?
03:50:17 <Ampera> no, we have phase+phase+neutral
03:50:19 <electrohead> still need to run the ground rods into the ground
03:50:32 <jackbrown> Ampera: ok Split phase, but what's the use of splitphase ?
03:50:33 <Ampera> 2 phases 180 degrees apart, 120V relative to ground, 240V phase to phase
03:51:03 <jackbrown> Ampera: aren't your appliances running on 120V ? I thought you had 120V single phase
03:51:08 <Ampera> The real practicality of split phase is probably a philosophical question that goes back to the history of why 120V comes out of our walls, but today, it's useful for accessing 240V residentially
03:51:18 <jackbrown> Ampera: as we have residential single 240V phase
03:51:18 <Ampera> No, some appliances run off 120V, some appliances run off 240V
03:51:21 * electrohead beers jackbrown
03:51:33 <Ampera> more or less every single grid attached house in the US has 240V at the panel
03:51:34 <DHess_US> jackbrown, trying to find the reference that got me to thinking about it again.
03:51:46 <jackbrown> Ampera: I didn't know you have 240V in USA aswell
03:52:18 <Ampera> It's commonly used for dryers, electric stoves, electric water heaters, and other general large appliances
03:52:34 <jackbrown> DHess_US: it's ok thanks for helping, if you have some time i can give some datasheet and some installation scheme so you can see what I'm talking about, If you don't have time i'll keep doing my searches thanks anyway
03:53:16 <jackbrown> Ampera: ok I got, but how they work ? do they have 4 pole plug ? 2 phase neutral and PE ?
03:53:31 <Ampera> One of my hobby projects was making myself a subpanel that plugged into a 240V 50A stove outlet, that split it up into 240V 15A circuits that my servers could use
03:53:39 <jackbrown> Ampera: or common 2 plug and earth but the 2 plug are both phases (120V x 2 ) ?
03:53:53 <Ampera> There are various standards. PPNG, PPN, and PPG plugs all exist
03:54:24 <Ampera> PPNG is common in newer installations, and PPN is common in places built when having a ground was considered excessive.
03:54:44 <Ampera> PPG is common where 240V is all that will ever be needed, but that's rarer in residential.
03:55:15 <Ampera> The 240V 15A plugs that my server feeds off are PPG, while the box itself is connected to a PPNG outlet.
03:55:46 <Ampera> I had an old PPN outlet retrofitted to be a PPNG outlet, until I realized that I didn't really need neutral, and could have just repurposed it to be PPG, since G and N are bound at the panel anyways
03:56:25 <jackbrown> Ampera: would you install battery in your home?
03:56:26 <Ampera> Having to deal with PPNG in my subpanel meant I had to keep both neutral and ground on separate busbars, since N and G must only be bound at the main panel
03:56:30 <Ampera> sure if I had the money
03:56:39 <jackbrown> Ampera: lol
03:56:49 <Ampera> if I had the money, I'd install as many batteries as I could fit.
03:56:51 <jackbrown> Ampera: Tesla Powerwall 2?
03:57:02 <Ampera> nah, I'd probably set up my own system of some sort
03:57:12 <Ampera> I have no idea what I'd so, as I do not have the money, so I never did any research
03:57:53 <jackbrown> Ampera: I got it
03:57:56 <Ampera> There's a bunch of red tape over connecting your home to a battery system here, as you either need to deal with a grid tie system, use an isolator switch, or have a separate panel entirely
03:58:01 <jackbrown> Ampera: Can you install PV on your roof ?
03:58:15 <Ampera> Sure, if I had the money, and someone insane enough to haul panels up my very tall roof
03:58:39 <jackbrown> Ampera: same here, you have to be sure that energy won't go back into the grid in case the grid is down for repairing for safety reason
03:58:51 <jackbrown> Ampera: there's the need of a commutation panel for that
03:58:54 <Ampera> Backfeed is only part of the issue with grid tie
03:59:11 <Ampera> I don't even want to know what sort of permission you need to convince out of the power company
03:59:34 <jackbrown> Ampera: I dunno much, I'm just an amateur of the matter, anyway when the grid is working i can backfeed the surplus and get money selling exceding kWh
04:00:29 <jackbrown> Ampera: In my country you don't need so much for a "permission" you just need to ask for a 2 way utility meter (so you can backfeed aswell) and follow the safety requirement
04:00:45 <Ampera> I have no idea what's required here, and it will vary by jurisdiction.
04:00:50 <Ampera> Electrical codes can change per-city
04:00:55 <jackbrown> Ampera: that why I was trying to understand if my ideal Sunny Island installation using it's internal relè is possible
04:01:15 <rust1> always send 200Hz, if you stuff power back into the wire
04:01:17 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah USA is big (you live in USA right?)
04:01:27 <Ampera> Yes and sorta.
04:01:30 <Ampera> I live in New York
04:01:37 <Ampera> if you want to consider that part of the US is a philosophical matter.
04:01:54 <rust1> peoples republic of new york, isn't it?
04:02:03 <Ampera> no no, democratic people's republic
04:02:11 <Ampera> that's 5 year's gulag making hand sanitizer for you, rust1
04:02:13 <rust1> oh oh
04:02:20 <rust1> yesss!
04:02:44 <rust1> see you later, I will be drunk for at least 5 years, unless I can stay longer
04:02:47 <jackbrown> I have been in NY just one 14 years ago
04:02:49 <Ampera> all the money made will go to cuomo's sexual abuse aid fund
04:02:58 <Ampera> which will aid cuomo in sexually abusing more people
04:03:01 <jackbrown> once
04:03:07 <Ampera> jackbrown, I am so sorry
04:03:14 <jackbrown> Ampera: about what?
04:03:21 <Ampera> you having to visit this shithole
04:03:53 <jackbrown> Ampera: shithole maybe is the proper word, i had the worste traveler dissenteria of my life in NY
04:04:10 <Ampera> what a surprise
04:04:11 <jackbrown> worst neveming
04:04:15 <jackbrown> nevermint
04:04:44 <jackbrown> the group decided for a Chinese restaurant, why the hell, I will never forget but neverming, I liked NY anyway big city life
04:04:51 <Ampera> oh, NY city?
04:04:53 <Ampera> that's even worse
04:05:00 <Ampera> not even new yorkers want to visit NYC
04:05:04 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah don't you know ? tourists go to NYC
04:05:14 <Ampera> *tourists -> fools
04:05:33 <jackbrown> Ampera: 14 years ago, wow seem yesterday
04:05:40 <Ampera> I have been to NYC twice.
04:05:58 <Ampera> You'll lose all of your money, the whole place smells like a bathroom, and the subway is full of plague victims
04:06:24 <Ampera> The roads are about as shitty as they are up here, and drainage is a mere suggestion as opposed to an actual idea.
04:06:26 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah you unlocked my memory, almost everything seems correct
04:06:26 <rust1> i think I have some very cheap and plasticy sunglasses (sunpfnase)from nyc.
04:06:59 <Ampera> Everything is perpetually under construction, there really isn't all that much to do, and your legs will want to detach themselves from your body and stomp you the fuck to death for the abuse you've given them
04:07:21 <Ampera> Next time, go to Boston
04:07:45 <rust1> no no, go to idaho
04:07:54 <Ampera> What's hilarious is people pay more taxes in NYC than almost anywhere else in the country.
04:07:56 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah I walked so much that my feet hurt
04:07:58 <rust1> I really want someone to go there
04:08:17 <Ampera> Despite that, none of the infrastructure is actually maintained, and the government just eats it all in management stupidity.
04:08:23 <jackbrown> Ampera: anyway we drove from NY to LA in one month I visited inside too
04:08:30 <Ampera> from bad to worse
04:08:36 <jackbrown> Ampera: I like Yosemite
04:08:40 <Ampera> I've never been to LA, but I cannot think of a single reason to go there.
04:08:47 <Ampera> I can think of some reasons to go to NYC, unfortunately.
04:08:53 <jackbrown> Ampera: why don't you like your country ? LA was the place where we flight back
04:09:05 Quit: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) Connection closed
04:09:07 <Ampera> er, Los Angeles, or Louisiana?
04:09:09 <jackbrown> Ampera: we went to Las Vegas, I loved Chicago
04:09:17 <Ampera> "I loved chicago"
04:09:18 <jackbrown> Los Angeles
04:09:21 <Ampera> obviously you didn't see all of it
04:09:31 <jackbrown> Ampera: Chicago touristic part was nice
04:09:59 <Ampera> ah, so you didn't see the massive ghettos and constant gun violence
04:10:01 <jackbrown> Ampera: we went to San Francisco too, I still smell the piss on the street
04:10:05 <Ampera> hahaha
04:10:33 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah we were just tourist with rented car that need to drive in 1 month from East to West to catch our flight back
04:10:35 <Ampera> I like the US, but under the acknowledgement that the way we do things isn't necessarily better, it's different.
04:10:43 <jackbrown> Ampera: I just remember lot o driving!! SO MUCH
04:10:50 <rust1> Pyongyang has some nice areas too, i hear. I am not sure it is a great city
04:11:04 <jackbrown> rust1: where are you from/typing ?
04:11:20 <rust1> a bit south from oslo
04:11:55 <jackbrown> rust1: lucky you, here in south Italy we have 37 °C, hottest summer ever
04:11:59 <rust1> on the west side of the water
04:12:17 <Ampera> I think the thing I am looking forward to the least when I visit Europe is having to pick between where to go.
04:12:22 <Ampera> all the places look so nice
04:12:29 <rust1> yeah, it has been nice today. 10c around 5 this morning
04:12:45 <jackbrown> rust1: so it's cold where you are ? wow
04:13:09 <jackbrown> Ampera: Europe is big and there so much to see, I didn't that much not even my country, depends what you like to do
04:13:16 <rust1> not cold, this is summer
04:13:18 <jackbrown> Ampera: and which part of the year you want to visit it
04:13:28 <Ampera> I'm probably gonna visit when it's cold
04:13:29 <jackbrown> rust1: 5 °C is summer? for me it's winter
04:13:37 <Ampera> and not italy. No offense, but I can't think of a reason to visit italy
04:13:43 <Ampera> besides to visit san marino just to say I did
04:13:48 <jackbrown> Ampera: best time IMHO are spring and autumn
04:13:59 <Ampera> I much prefer winter in general.
04:14:01 <rust1> and, no, europe is not big, well, if you remove the russian part of it. it takes no time to drive across it
04:14:13 <jackbrown> Ampera: why ? very bad organized country but our beaches food and history are the best
04:14:17 <Ampera> rust1, yeah but I don't want to spend all my vacation going places
04:14:34 <Ampera> I don't like beaches, and the good is good everywhere.
04:14:36 <rust1> not you, mr brown said it was a big place
04:14:36 <Ampera> *food
04:14:46 <jackbrown> rust1: Ampera Europe is big for the many things to visit and do, USA and AUSTALIA are bigger but more emptier
04:14:55 <rust1> sure
04:15:18 <rust1> but it takes about 3 minutes to get to the next place to look at, so that helps a bit
04:15:24 <Ampera> I'll probably start around NRW in Germany, and visit friends/family around there. Then it's a choice of if I want to see the former Yugoslavia or poland and the baltic states
04:15:34 <jackbrown> rust1: I mean big that way, when I was in USA it was really bigger, but we drove for 6-8 hours to get from a place to another, here in Italy I never drove for more that 4 hours
04:15:49 <Ampera> scandinavia would also be nice. I'll probably only have 3 weeks, so it's kinda sucky to have to pick.
04:16:02 <jackbrown> Ampera: never been there, but Italy is a place to came Sardinia is like Bahamas
04:16:04 <Ampera> 6-8 hours is a pretty short drive
04:16:08 <jackbrown> Ampera: if you like the sea
04:16:11 <Ampera> I'm driving to Georgia in September, that will be around 15 hrs
04:16:24 <Ampera> I don't like hot, and I don't like sea.
04:16:27 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah that's what I'm talking about, 6-8 was short for you, for me is he eternity
04:16:34 <Ampera> I don't mind sea if it's more like new england sea during the colder months.
04:16:47 <jackbrown> Ampera: your trip your choices
04:17:11 <rust1> I used 26 hours from here to troms�, which is a good bit up north. but I drove a worn out postal van, and it was snow, lol
04:17:39 <jackbrown> 26 hours driving, I'd kill myself
04:17:42 <Ampera> I'm not sure if I'll drive or take the train. There are reasons to take either.
04:17:43 <jackbrown> no plane?
04:17:59 <Ampera> I like driving in general, but I am kinda nervous about European roads.
04:18:17 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah it's better planes and train, you can basically go everywhere
04:18:42 <Ampera> I consider myself a decent driver here, but that's relative to some proper fuckfaces. I'm not sure how my driving style will be appreciated in a country where a driving test is like a college course.
04:18:48 <jackbrown> Ampera: if you came to Italy, expecially in the south, never thing about driving
04:18:56 <jackbrown> Ampera: it's like driving in south america
04:19:13 <rust1> well, say you go to this place: https://goo.gl/maps/5Mft5NDf9xTeQPZW7
04:19:14 <EEVBot> [url] Google Maps | goo.gl
04:19:15 <Ampera> The only real problem with trains is I can't take much.
04:19:30 <rust1> you might be tricked into thinking there is a train near that
04:19:37 <jackbrown> Ampera: planes in Europe the best choice
04:19:53 <rust1> planes takes forever.
04:19:55 <Ampera> I don't really want to do planes. Trains have charm, and driving is fun
04:19:58 <Ampera> planes are a pain in the ass
04:20:14 <rust1> not the flight, but you have to be there a long time before take off, and ...blaah
04:20:15 <jackbrown> Ampera: but here distance are small you'll fly for few hours
04:20:15 <Ampera> I think a car would be fun if I had a buddy to take with me on the trip.
04:20:26 <Ampera> sadly nobody really likes me enough to sacrifice 3 weeks of their life to see europe
04:20:43 <Ampera> jackbrown, the flying itself is not the problem, it's the hours of dealing with security, check in, waiting for the plane, etc.
04:20:53 <Ampera> it's not like a train where you just walk in a station with your ticket and get on the train
04:20:58 <Ampera> or a car where you just go
04:21:15 <rust1> then waiting for the next plane, because it was overbooked
04:21:19 <jackbrown> Ampera: but that problem is mostly for international or intercontinental flight, domestic flight are more convenient
04:21:35 <jackbrown> Ampera: you are planning to travel yourself ?
04:22:42 <Ampera> Probably, I have nobody else to bring with me
04:22:46 <Ampera> and I sort of hope to meet and make friends along the way
04:22:55 <Ampera> so long as they speak either english, or accept very broken german
04:23:20 <rust1> pretend you are dutch, and no one will think about it
04:23:29 <jackbrown> Ampera: check if there are company that arranges on the road trip with stranger, this is what I did with a friend of mine when we came to USA
04:23:50 <Ampera> That sounds like a great way to get mugged or raped.
04:23:51 <jackbrown> Ampera: we met the group at the airport, we shared the whole trip it was nice
04:23:52 <Ampera> or both
04:23:56 <rust1> just learn "mijn kont jeukt" and go from there
04:24:14 <Ampera> especially in the US, that just sounds like the worst fucking idea possible
04:24:29 <jackbrown> Ampera: no it's not, there are just travel agencies that arrange these kind of trip for whom that are alone or want to met new people could be fine
04:24:53 <Ampera> The US is nowhere near that peaceful, I'm afraid. I would never accept a journey or a trip with an absolute stranger.
04:24:54 <jackbrown> Ampera: the company that arranged the trip was italian, we met other italians in Italy and we traveled together
04:25:01 <Ampera> That's basic personal safety 101 in the US.
04:25:18 <rust1> just shoot everyone, and go
04:25:33 <jackbrown> Ampera: so you are saying that since 14 years ago that I was there, the USA is getting much worse in security ?
04:25:37 <Ampera> don't hitchhike, if people talk to you ignore them, don't go out at night
04:25:44 <Ampera> jackbrown, it was probably worse back then
04:25:58 <rust1> well, if things line up, I might be able to drive you around a bit. I have been thinking of a road trip for years
04:26:01 <Ampera> violent crime is not uncommon in the US. It's just a fact of life for us
04:26:15 <Ampera> rust1, I am somewhat flexible in terms of when.
04:26:23 <Ampera> most of the people I meet will probably be IRC people
04:26:30 <jackbrown> Ampera: really? For me not, but I'm not talking to take some strangers in the road and travel together it was a travel agency here in italy that arranged my travel, and I was with one of my best friend, there were girls in the group we had fun
04:26:40 <rust1> yeah, and I have no plans as such. but we can talk about it some time
04:26:57 <Ampera> jackbrown, all I can say is that's either very stupid, or very brave to be a woman and accept a trip with strangers in the US.
04:26:59 <jackbrown> Ampera: 14 years ago it didn't seem so dangerous to me,
04:27:02 <Ampera> if it was with Americans you'd be a complete dipshit
04:27:13 <Ampera> Maybe you just got the nicer view from the tour company
04:27:26 <jackbrown> Ampera: dunno that, are you sure you are not exageratin ?
04:27:29 <Ampera> I am not.
04:27:52 <jackbrown> Ampera: basically there were no itinerary we bought just the flight in and the flight back
04:27:56 <Ampera> Like, if you're careful, you'll be fine in the US, but you have to be careful.
04:28:00 <jackbrown> Ampera: and we had the car rented
04:28:08 <Ampera> Then that's some remarkable luck.
04:28:10 <jackbrown> Ampera: then we had to arrange the whole trip on the go
04:28:17 <Ampera> In places, especially like Chicago, a wrong turn could literally be the last thing you ever do.
04:28:40 <Ampera> I'm not even joking, being an unsuspecting tourist in the bad parts of chicago can genuinely be deadly.
04:28:41 <jackbrown> Ampera: wow ? are you sure it's not Kabul you are talking about or some South America favelas city ?
04:28:45 <Ampera> nope
04:28:52 <Ampera> the US has parts of it that are seriously that bad.
04:29:04 <Ampera> places where you never stop at a red light
04:29:09 <jackbrown> Ampera: and so what do you think about south america ? I have been In Brazil, Mexico never had a problem
04:29:19 <Ampera> South America just has more places like that.
04:29:33 <Ampera> Mexico and Brazil have a major tourism industry, so they try to protect certain areas that make them money.
04:29:45 <Ampera> The cold hard truth is that Brazil and Mexico are just worse versions of the US in terms of crime.
04:29:49 <jackbrown> Ampera: wow, Mexico I had an accident with the police I had to bribe them
04:30:19 <Ampera> Police vary a lot in the US. Small mistakes can be fatal, though.
04:30:27 <jackbrown> Ampera: but anyway If you stay in the right places, you know where to go and you don't show golden watches I think you'll be fine
04:30:33 <Ampera> I've heard of instances of europeans getting out of the car during a traffic stop, and being shot dead by the cops.
04:30:42 <Ampera> oh, I'm not worried about europe
04:30:46 <jackbrown> Ampera: honestly I'm more scared of the police
04:31:04 <Ampera> Most of the time, if you respect the cops, the cops will respect you. Don't cause trouble and there won't be trouble.
04:31:18 <jackbrown> Ampera: seems that the America continent for you is a kind of hell, why don't you move to Europe then
04:31:22 <Ampera> In bad places, cops will try to milk you on the road for cash, giving you bogus tickets and such
04:31:40 <Ampera> jackbrown, because for all the bad things I say about the US, there is a lot of good things that are just not the case in Europe.
04:31:49 <jackbrown> Ampera: yeah, it happened to me in Mexico with the cops
04:32:11 <Ampera> Opportunities tend to be better, cost of living much lower, freedom of expression is more well protected, and there is a much greater diversity in culture.
04:32:32 <jackbrown> Ampera: sorry man but I think you are a little bit exaggerating, yeah world is a dangerous place, but is not a war field (at least not yet)
04:32:42 <Ampera> In the US, I can have a job in technology without a college degree and make very good money. In Europe, you can barely get a job at McDonalds in some places without a degree.
04:32:59 <Ampera> I am not, but the US is a /big/ place.
04:33:05 <jackbrown> Ampera: yep Europe, expecially Italy, is a mess for job
04:33:09 <Ampera> You will find everything from bombed out ghettos to beautiful suburban sprawls with nice people.
04:33:23 <jackbrown> Ampera: so it's the same everywhere
04:33:36 <Ampera> There are places where the cops don't give a shit and will let you blast 80mph down the interstate, and places where cops will ticket you for going the limit
04:33:36 <jackbrown> Ampera: which country did you visit as far ?
04:33:43 <rust1> yes, if you are in a city, it is probably not good
04:33:45 <Ampera> I am a German citizen by birth.
04:33:56 <Ampera> I have mostly just been to Germany to visit family.
04:33:59 <jackbrown> Ampera: great, so it's your choice to live in USA
04:34:08 <Ampera> In a sense. I was born here, so it is the easiest option.
04:34:13 <jackbrown> Ampera: do you have USA citizenship ?
04:34:16 <Ampera> I could live anywhere in the EU if I want to.
04:34:19 <Ampera> Yes, jus solis
04:34:27 <jackbrown> Ampera: ok, You got 2 passports, my dream
04:34:42 <jackbrown> Ampera: You can do anything you want
04:34:43 <rust1> always keep a spare
04:34:48 <jackbrown> Ampera: are you fluent in german ?
04:34:51 <Ampera> hahaha
04:34:51 <Ampera> nope
04:35:07 <jackbrown> Ampera: do you speak other languages than English/american ?
04:35:08 <Ampera> I know some, enough to assemble very basic sentences.
04:35:13 <Ampera> Not really
04:35:26 <Ampera> I know a very small amount of Russian, mostly just enough to read a few sentences.
04:35:31 <jackbrown> Do you work in IT?
04:35:35 <Ampera> Yes.
04:35:47 <jackbrown> Ampera: have you ever been to Silicon Valley?
04:35:51 <Ampera> fuck no
04:35:59 <Ampera> west coast is trash, up and down
04:36:00 <jackbrown> Don't you like the idea?
04:36:17 <jackbrown> Ampera: is there a place where you'd like to go? seems that everything is bad
04:36:25 <Ampera> to live, or to visit?
04:36:36 <jackbrown> whatever
04:36:40 <Ampera> in terms of living, that is a loaded question. For the moment, New York is where I grew up, and is the easiest place to be.
04:36:48 <Ampera> There are plenty of places I'd like to visit, in the US or overseas.
04:37:43 <jackbrown> I see, by the way I need to go now If you need some advice about Europe next time we chat, feel free to ask
04:37:47 <jackbrown> have a good day
04:37:51 <Ampera> lol, have a good day
04:38:07 <jackbrown> (it's actually night here) bye
04:38:10 Quit: jackbrown ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
04:38:24 <rust1> actually, it isn't, but...
04:39:01 <rust1> 8.38
04:39:08 <rust1> that can not be night?
04:39:11 <LordGeir> When the ISOs you have of Windows XP refuses to work with a bootable USB, and you don't have CD-Rs; Looking through old (very old) cds in my "collection" and I find exactly what I'm looking for... An original Windows XP Professional CD! :D
04:39:51 <LordGeir> rust1: You have a week left of vacation, or this the last weekend?
04:39:55 Quit: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) Changing hosts
04:39:55 Join: Ysjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:40:00 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o Ysjoelfir
04:40:04 <rust1> have you tried plop, or something like that?
04:40:08 <rust1> I have one more week
04:40:16 <LordGeir> Nice!
04:40:39 <rust1> i dunno? I do not deal well with not going to work
04:40:43 <Ysjoelfir> Seems like I have missed quite a bit of backlog. was there something signifficant? :D
04:40:48 <Ysjoelfir> also, mornings!
04:41:08 <LordGeir> I haven't tried plop. Only got some ISOs of XP, and rufus says everything is made OK, but nope...
04:41:19 <rust1> yes, the italian guy has not found a submarine, as I instructed him to do
04:41:45 <Ysjoelfir> shame on him
04:41:48 <rust1> yes
04:41:54 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, US vs EU nothing to see here
04:41:58 <Ampera> hello Ysjoelfir how are you doing
04:42:03 <rust1> to come here and be italian... pssssht
04:42:24 <Ampera> mostly discussing my planning of a trip to europe next year
04:42:50 <Ysjoelfir> I am doing pretty fine, Ampera. the misses joined me on a ride on the motorcycle today and I think she enjoyed it. how about you?
04:43:01 <Ysjoelfir> but... I don't want to become italian, rust1 :(
04:43:03 <Ampera> I did some shopping, and am currently procrastinating
04:43:23 <Ampera> I bought a peugeot
04:43:32 <LordGeir> Why do something, when you can procrastinate?
04:43:33 <rust1> good boy! anti italian
04:43:38 <Ysjoelfir> didn't you have a *somethingdifferent*?
04:43:45 <Ampera> a wha?
04:43:50 <rust1> is it a pepper grinder?
04:43:53 <Ampera> yes
04:43:57 <rust1> yay
04:44:00 <Ampera> \o/
04:44:05 <rust1> they tend to last a good while
04:44:10 <Ampera> no more shitty cheap grinders
04:44:28 <Ampera> this is a 9" grinder. they had a 16" grinder for the same price, but I am not ready for something that long just yet
04:44:28 Join: er_ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:44:38 <rust1> humm
04:45:02 <Ampera> it was only around 30$, so I can always get the longer one some time
04:45:13 <rust1> sure, but why?
04:45:31 <Ampera> idk
04:45:34 <rust1> 9" should last all weekend
04:45:35 <Ampera> I like long things
04:45:51 <Ampera> I can show people my collection of long things I grind on
04:45:53 <rust1> maybe you can buy an extender kit
04:46:07 Quit: er ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
04:47:21 <rust1> you can probably get one that you just strap on, should be easy
04:47:35 <Ampera> if I strap it on, how will I get it in and out?
04:47:40 <Ampera> think, rusty, think with portals!
04:47:42 <Ysjoelfir> be careful with the direction you strap it on
04:48:02 <Ysjoelfir> the grindy bits belong towards the body
04:48:05 <rust1> some may think abou tthat in a different way
04:48:19 <Ampera> any car can be a pepper mill, you just need a hole in the transmission
04:48:35 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
04:48:38 <rust1> you and your transmission fetish
04:48:39 <Nothing\> rustrustrust!!!!
04:48:42 <Nothing\> it happened again
04:48:50 <Nothing\> another synchronicity. But this time you were part of it.
04:48:51 <rust1> ohnoes!
04:48:58 <LordGeir> Did you wake up in straps again?
04:49:03 <Nothing\> remember yesterday how i was talking about the game Ice Climber
04:49:03 <rust1> I am async?
04:49:08 <rust1> yez
04:49:09 <Nothing\> LordGeir, lol not that much of a synchronicity
04:49:15 <Nothing\> not the brain breaking type
04:49:17 <LordGeir> :P
04:49:44 <Nothing\> rust1, synchronicity is basically 2 seemingly unrelated events which are related, despite being acausal
04:49:56 <Nothing\> classic example is i think of a person, then said person calls
04:50:22 <rust1> but I didn't call
04:50:30 <rust1> I am on vacation, I do not call
04:50:33 <Nothing\> except renowned psychologist and contemporary of sigmmund freud, the great, Carl Jung, believed these events had some sort of significance
04:50:37 <Nothing\> but anyways onto what happened
04:50:49 <Nothing\> you remember yesterday we were talking about that game Ice Climber
04:50:55 <rust1> sigmundur fraud was a great guy
04:51:00 <DHess_US> Ah, found the link but jackbrown left.
04:51:05 <rust1> still yez
04:51:56 <Nothing\> rust1, honestly none of his theories are actually taken seriously by any real psychologist. It's more the way he treated the mind as something which can be studied and analyzed which was groundbreaking at the time. Not his disgusting projections of his own oedipus complex that he tried to put on all of us
04:51:57 <rust1> oh, Ysjoelfir you need to take a ride to wankendorf
04:52:01 <Nothing\> but anyways
04:52:04 <Ysjoelfir> Why?
04:52:12 <rust1> it is a funny name
04:52:19 <Ysjoelfir> it is, and I have been there :D
04:52:36 <LordGeir> Mr. Freud was a "fan" of the now controlled substance Cocaine. In large quantities!
04:52:39 <Nothing\> so i was on my switch last night rust1 and i realized i had enough points saved up from buying games that I could get a 3 month subscription for the online service, to be able to play games online. So I went ahead and got it, yadda yadda yadda.
04:52:41 <rust1> ok, so you know the way
04:52:49 * Ampera hugs Nothing\
04:52:52 <Ampera> how are you doing
04:53:01 <Nothing\> Then I see as part of the subscription they have emulators for NES, SNES, N64 and Megadrive games
04:53:08 * Nothing\ gives Ampera a big ol power hug
04:53:36 <Nothing\> i'm doing alright. I'm in pain but it's subsiding fortunately. I'm just really disappointed it came back after 3 great days of being pretty minimal for the first time since the spring.
04:53:37 <rust1> ok, so... you will be busy for a couple hours? is that waht you are hinting at?
04:53:54 <Nothing\> rust1, well no i'm getting to the point lol slowly
04:54:21 <Nothing\> so i got these emulator apps and figured okay so they'll have some games and they'll want you to pay $5 a piece or something for them like they did on every other console
04:54:25 <Nothing\> but no
04:54:41 <Nothing\> i open the NES one, it's got a library of maybe 50 good games, including Ice Climber.
04:54:49 <Nothing\> which i happily played, not being ably to play it on an emulator
04:55:01 <rust1> whoooooaaa! unmazing!
04:55:03 <Nothing\> i have it on my Wii but that's been literally collecting dust for like a year
04:55:11 <Nothing\> rust1, on its own yeah it's pretty benign
04:55:27 <rust1> gnarrenburg
04:55:30 <Nothing\> but when stuff like this happens to you on a daily basis, and much more significantly, you take notice.
04:56:30 <rust1> mmhmm
04:56:33 <Nothing\> still, i'm no pu aberlmarl
04:56:39 <Nothing\> oh, speaking of
04:56:48 <rust1> Ysjoelfir have you been in balje?
04:57:13 <Nothing\> apparently Alex Jones has to pay $50 million in compensation to Sandy Hook families he defamed when he said the whole thing was fake and they were part of a false flag operation perpetrated by the goverment
04:57:25 <Ysjoelfir> nope, I haven't
04:57:36 <Nothing\> which led to thousands of his followers harassing the parents of the chlidren killed in the shooting and threatening their lives, etc
04:57:53 <rust1> HAH! and AHA! up here balje means tub
04:58:00 <Ysjoelfir> lol :D
04:58:05 <Ysjoelfir> maybe its inside a land tub
04:58:13 <Nothing\> believing instead of being the parents of a 6 year old who was shot to death in his own school, they're really secret agents working for the government to undermine your freedoms
04:58:43 <Nothing\> rust1, tub like a bath tub? or like a wash tub for laundry? or like a tub of soda you get from 7/11?
04:58:56 <rust1> wife nagged about going to bremerhaven, some years ago. I am not sure why
04:59:10 <rust1> more like a wash tub, or large bucket
04:59:13 <Nothing\> man i'm so jealous of you
04:59:27 <Nothing\> having all of these cool sites to visit with such old heritage
04:59:41 <Nothing\> oldest building i set foot in here was erected in... lemme see
05:00:01 <Nothing\> 1510-1540
05:00:02 <rust1> oh, lots of places was rebuilt in the late 40s
05:00:14 <Nothing\> it was the first cathedral in the Americas
05:00:20 <Nothing\> in Dominican Republic
05:00:58 <Nothing\> I also visited the homestead of Christopher Colonize um bus
05:01:00 <rust1> I dunno, do grave mounds count as buildings?
05:01:08 <Nothing\> i'd say so, yeah
05:01:25 <Nothing\> not buildings, but definitely strucutures of sorts
05:01:30 <rust1> if they count, I guess that is the oldest place I have been, at least around here
05:01:32 <Nothing\> which buildings fall into the category of
05:01:55 <Nothing\> man i had a chance to visit chichen'itza once. I'm still pissed I didn't go.
05:01:57 <rust1> it was just a couple years ago, that they found remains of building there
05:02:15 <Nothing\> it's the ruins of an ancient Mayan City in the Yucatan
05:02:25 <Nothing\> has a very iconic pyramid
05:02:28 <Ysjoelfir> my misses complains about your misses' desire to go anywhere near something that has bremen in its name, rust1
05:02:48 <rust1> I still wonder why it was a thing too
05:03:01 <Nothing\> https://tinyurl.com/2p9w2bxu
05:03:03 <EEVBot> [url] chichen itza pyramid - Google Search | tinyurl.com
05:03:25 <Nothing\> you can even climb the stairs. Though apparently it's pretty treacherous. It's a very steep incline, small steps, and no handrail.
05:03:33 <Ampera> Nothing\, I bought a peugeot
05:03:34 <rust1> https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Borre_mound_cemetery
05:03:34 <EEVBot> [url] Borre mound cemetery - Wikiwand | www.wikiwand.com
05:03:38 <Nothing\> Ampera, nice!
05:03:51 <rust1> this one is much nicer, you can be stupid drunk, and just roll down
05:04:10 <Nothing\> rust1, that's pretty cool. It's just weird because here for some reason they put a hill in every park with a school.
05:04:15 <Nothing\> at least in this area of the city
05:04:21 <Nothing\> and they look very much like those mounds
05:04:37 <rust1> yes, think abou tthat
05:04:39 <Nothing\> it makes no sense though because at least in our school, the hill was out of bounds and we weren't allowed out there.
05:04:49 <Nothing\> rust1, yeah they buried kids under them lol
05:04:56 <rust1> probably
05:04:56 <Nothing\> actually i shouldn't say that
05:05:02 <Nothing\> they really DID do that in some places
05:05:06 <rust1> no, they might get you
05:05:16 <Nothing\> i meant out of respect
05:05:21 <Nothing\> it's a big deal here
05:05:32 <Nothing\> the whole first nations genocide thing
05:05:33 <rust1> that does not make it impossible
05:06:27 <Nothing\> so going back to my story. I'm actually pretty surprised and happy that i now have access to like 50+ virtual console games on my switch. I'm amazed that nintendo didn't try to sell them one at a time again.
05:06:34 <rust1> Ysjoelfir (yselect) what is her problem with anything bremen?
05:06:49 <Nothing\> it just sucks because to play the genesis/N64 ones, you have to buy a 1 year subscription which is like $55
05:07:01 <Nothing\> whereas my 3 months was like $10
05:07:09 <rust1> that is far less than one game for the thing
05:07:22 <Nothing\> yeah for the AAA titles it certainly is
05:07:27 <Nothing\> that's about the price of an A title
05:07:34 <Nothing\> they usually go for about $50 or so
05:07:38 <rust1> you said somethign was 90
05:07:48 <Ysjoelfir> everytime she has been to bremen: Traffic jams. Trams. Traffic Lights.
05:08:00 <Nothing\> yeah the AAA titles, like the big franchises, big releases are always $80 and with tax it's $90
05:08:02 <rust1> ohno, trans
05:08:10 <Nothing\> things like pokemon, mario, zelda, that sorta stuff
05:08:15 <Nothing\> so i rarely buy those games
05:08:30 <rust1> oh, trams. that is not trans. even if they identify as buses
05:08:31 <Nothing\> plus i spent about $600 on the system itself
05:08:40 <Nothing\> i had to save up for like half a year for that
05:09:07 <Nothing\> with the system, 2 games and a proper controller it was nearly $1,000 all told
05:09:39 <rust1> is soltau acceptable?
05:09:46 <rust1> or too close to bremen
05:09:56 <Nothing\> lol now they have a "lite" version of the switch which is purely handheld. Which is fine if that's your thing, but I just fall asleep when I play anything handheld unless I'm on the can.
05:10:01 <Ysjoelfir> Soltau is cool. It has a park that was once nice.
05:10:14 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, are you also norwegian?
05:10:18 <Ysjoelfir> the rollercoaster kind of park, not the green stuff kind of park
05:10:20 <rust1> oooh, nice, an ex-nice park
05:10:32 <Ysjoelfir> no, I am still not, Nothing\ ;)
05:10:35 <rust1> cool, rusty spinning things
05:10:36 <Nothing\> i know i've mentioned how your name reminds me of the Ygdrasil but I don't remember if I ever found out whether you are or not
05:10:52 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, ah i see
05:11:02 <rust1> he is australian, like the rest of them
05:11:08 <Ysjoelfir> lol
05:11:08 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, actually, are you a fan of the series Wanderers from Ys?
05:11:21 <Ysjoelfir> I never heard of that, what is it about?
05:11:30 <rust1> soltau means sun rope
05:11:42 <Ysjoelfir> but I like Yggdrasil. I actually ordered a diamond painting with it
05:12:00 <Nothing\> i'm not sure tbh i never played it. I just know it was a rather popular action RPG series in the 80's and 90's for the NES and SNES
05:12:19 <Nothing\> there musta been at least 6 games in the series. But it was one of those franchises that only really flourished in Japan.
05:12:21 <rust1> I am saving up for my own naglfar. but I need more nails
05:12:34 <Nothing\> But from what I played of them, they seem like they could be good games.
05:14:06 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, nice. I've been getting interested in sacred geometry lately. Well I guess not so much the sacred part. I just like making cool pictures using euclidean techniques. Which is to use only a straight edge and a compass which i must reset every time i lift it from the page
05:14:10 <rust1> offf, and now i am back to erfurt
05:15:09 <Nothing\> but you'd be amazed what cool designs you can make just using 5 basic techniques with that method
05:15:40 <rust1> I think I have to go to wolfsburg some day, because I really have to pee
05:16:27 <Nothing\> bah
05:16:30 <Nothing\> coffee with no cream
05:16:42 <rust1> that is what coffee is
05:16:44 <Nothing\> i never got the point of coffee whitener
05:16:53 <Nothing\> is it really that important that their coffee be white?
05:17:08 <rust1> coffee should never be white
05:17:09 <Nothing\> i mean i use cream because i like the creamy taste, not because it makes my coffee whiter
05:17:11 <Bird|otherbox> oh boy: I'm trying to measure the Thiele-Small parameters of a (small) speaker using the added mass method, and when I add the mass (a 2.5g nominal US penny held on by three very small pieces of Scotch tape), the resonance frequency of my driver goes _up_ and throws the calculations completely off. why?
05:17:17 <Nothing\> who the hell thought that was the point
05:17:33 <Nothing\> also apparently coffee whitener is terrifyingly flammable when its airborne
05:17:43 <rust1> like most fine dust
05:17:43 <Nothing\> actually, pretty much anything powdered is
05:17:46 <Nothing\> yeah
05:17:53 <Nothing\> sugar and flour are notorious for it
05:17:55 <Bird|otherbox> yeah, if it's powered and combustible, then its a menace when airborne
05:18:06 <Bird|otherbox> *powdered
05:18:37 <Nothing\> there are channels on youtube like the workplace safety board or the chemical safety board where whey post recreations of industrial accidents that explain what happened and there are a lot of such accidents
05:18:52 <rust1> Bird|otherbox I think you should ask that, when kuschelpony is here. or maybe DHess_US knows
05:19:32 <Nothing\> it's usually down to not following proper procedures. Improper ventilation. And in soooo many cases of just industrial accidents in general, the people in charge just outright disabled an alarm while it was going off.
05:19:39 <Nothing\> or they would disable a faulty alarm system
05:19:45 <Nothing\> stuff like that
05:20:11 <Nothing\> they're interesting videos, though. I've always had an interest in industrial level chemical accidents.
05:20:22 <rust1> neuruppin, and such
05:20:43 <Nothing\> neuropin
05:20:54 <Nothing\> it sounds like the name of an expensive drug
05:20:55 <rust1> no, neuruppin
05:21:01 <Nothing\> what neuruppin
05:21:07 <Nothing\> also how should it be pronounced
05:21:09 <rust1> I know, but it is a place a bit north from berlin
05:21:18 <Nothing\> "nyoor-uppin"?
05:21:27 <Nothing\> nyur-uppin?
05:21:30 <rust1> why would I know? I am not austrian
05:21:42 <Nothing\> because all europeans are the exact same
05:21:48 <Nothing\> btw you say you're from norway
05:21:54 <Nothing\> do you know jaan?
05:22:08 <rust1> jaan is dutch, as you might remember
05:22:15 <Nothing\> yeah but he lived in norway
05:22:21 <Nothing\> actually he's probably dead by now
05:22:33 <Nothing\> 40something year old heroin addicted jeweler
05:22:34 <rust1> that does not help much either
05:22:55 <Nothing\> oh come on you must know him
05:22:55 <rust1> so, polish!
05:23:00 <rust1> Mlawa
05:23:00 <Nothing\> he vacations in Ibiza
05:23:13 <Nothing\> he has blonde hair
05:23:16 <Nothing\> always wears a shirt
05:23:22 <rust1> the l is pronounced as a w
05:23:22 <Nothing\> except when he's not
05:23:31 <Nothing\> rust1, in mlawa?
05:23:46 <rust1> oh, the guy who at one time was inside a house,
05:23:54 <Nothing\> YES
05:23:57 <Nothing\> so you DO know him
05:24:08 <Nothing\> ah seriously though i'd love to know how he's doing
05:24:12 <rust1> no, l, not l
05:24:17 <Nothing\> but yeah he probably is dead
05:24:21 <rust1> yes
05:24:32 <Nothing\> he'd be pushing 70 by now and i think there's a reason you don't see many 70 year old heroin addicts
05:24:54 <Nothing\> also kinda weird that he talked to me
05:24:55 <Bird|otherbox> rust1: when would be the best time to catch this kuschelpony?
05:25:02 <Nothing\> like i called him on the phone to talk to him
05:25:05 <Nothing\> lol back in the 90s
05:25:37 <rust1> uh, he likes to get up very early, european time, but he left just... an hour or so ago
05:26:00 <Nothing\> i used to rack of so much money on my poor mum's phone bill. My ex and i were in a longdistance relationship for like 5 years where we'd spend hours a day on the phone with eachother. So my Mum would get $400, $500, up to $600 phone bills lol
05:26:16 <Nothing\> or i'd just call random friends i had in the states when i was on drugs
05:26:39 <rust1> and you are still alive, and this is why I keep telling you to be nice to your mom
05:26:42 <Nothing\> there was one guy from illinois i used to call whenever i was tripping. I'd lock myself in the closet in the pitch black and talk to him about all manner of things.
05:26:45 <Ysjoelfir> so, I just noticed that the misses and I are not used to alcohol at all anymore
05:26:59 <Bird|otherbox> rust1: noted, thx. I'll try for tomorrow morning my time then
05:27:03 <rust1> it is summer, I think
05:27:12 <Nothing\> all I remember is him explaining to me how to make a digeridoo out of a piece of PVC pipe and teaching me about the circular breathing techniques you use to play them.
05:27:20 <rust1> ok, good luck, mr bird
05:27:47 <Ysjoelfir> EEVBot time Bird|otherbox
05:27:54 <Ysjoelfir> grrr
05:27:58 <rust1> LG Electronics Mlawa
05:28:01 <Ysjoelfir> I forgot that electrohead fuckered the bot :P
05:28:17 <rust1> which time are you thinking of?
05:28:49 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, that must me an age thing. Not being used to alcohol anymore. I mean, up until my late 20's I drank like a fish. I don't think I was an alcoholic, but I was problematic when I drank. I would always overdo it. But the point is I always enjoyed it (at the time) and never had a problem imbibing
05:29:06 <Nothing\> then out of nowhere alcohol just felt like poison to me. Quite literally.
05:29:24 <rust1> Ysjoelfir is still basically a teenager
05:29:53 <rust1> if you compare to some other people here
05:30:00 <Nothing\> now I have even half a beer or glass of wine, basically enough to feel it the slightest bit, and my face feels like it's on fire, I get really tired and crappy feeling, my heart pounds out of my chest, and I just feel very unwell all together in general.
05:30:07 <rust1> and if you do not count amera at all
05:30:19 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, is he? I just assume everybody's within 5 years of me give or take
05:30:25 <Nothing\> unless told otherwise
05:30:33 <Nothing\> just like i assume everyone here is european
05:30:46 * Ysjoelfir is 10 years younger than rust1
05:30:48 <Ysjoelfir> IIRC
05:30:56 <rust1> beer and wine is like sleeping pills
05:31:04 <DHess_US> <Bird|otherbox> oh boy: I'm trying to measure the Thiele-Small parameters of a (small) speaker using the added mass method, and when I add the mass (a 2.5g nominal US penny held on by three very small pieces of Scotch tape), the resonance frequency of my driver goes _up_ and throws the calculations completely off. why?
05:31:04 <rust1> yeah, something like that
05:31:08 <DHess_US> How small of a speaker?
05:31:21 <rust1> Bird|otherbox !!
05:31:32 <DHess_US> If the compliance between the voice coil and mass is too great, then it won't work.
05:31:51 <Nothing\> rust1, that's another thing. alcohol never really helped me sleep very effectively.
05:32:11 <rust1> not me either, but neither does coffee
05:32:19 <Nothing\> i mean again, at the time it works great. But as soon as it wears off, the rebound/hangover (depending on how severe) makes it hard to sleep
05:32:27 <Nothing\> it's like i get a sort of stimulatory effect from the rebound
05:32:28 <rust1> but I also do not drink beer or wine
05:33:05 <Nothing\> i remember if i didn't "drink enough" in a night, i'd sober up in the middle of the night and my hangover would wake me up and keep me up.
05:33:21 <Nothing\> i always just drank cheap beer
05:33:28 <Nothing\> James Ready 5.5%
05:33:37 <rust1> Ysjoelfir we have to go here some day: https://goo.gl/maps/gnTVD2yRhFcTKYsP8
05:33:38 <EEVBot> [url] Google Maps | goo.gl
05:33:47 <Nothing\> i loved the way my mouth tasted like old yeast in the morning
05:33:59 <Ysjoelfir> That would be pretty interesting, rust1
05:34:10 <rust1> yes, I hope they have postcards
05:34:13 <Ysjoelfir> also I would love to visit vietnam some day
05:34:39 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, i wouldn't mind visiting cambodia and seeing some of the museums and sites around the killing fields
05:34:50 <Nothing\> it's a weird place to want to go but i just want to learn more about it.
05:34:54 <rust1> mmkay. I am not THAt into driving. 3 days is enough, then I need a nap
05:35:02 <Ysjoelfir> that could also be interesting, while we are in Bagdad. https://goo.gl/maps/o9QTPX8NCkukDusf6
05:35:03 <EEVBot> [url] Google Maps | goo.gl
05:35:08 <Nothing\> hey, i guess Jello Biafra was onto something
05:35:16 <Nothing\> i actually want to have a literal Holiday in Cambodia
05:35:32 <rust1> oh yes, right next to the vag center
05:35:52 <rust1> kinky
05:35:57 <Nothing\> i wonder if jello biafra's gonna die soon
05:36:00 <Nothing\> he must be getting old
05:36:08 <Ysjoelfir> rust1, where do they send the christmas post to?
05:36:10 <rust1> eeh, sort of, but not very
05:36:37 <Nothing\> wow
05:36:43 <rust1> uuuh, that goes either to rovaniemi in finlandland, or dr�bak across the fjord here
05:36:50 <Nothing\> Biafra almost became the presidential nominee for the Green Party
05:36:58 <Nothing\> lost to Ralph Nader
05:37:10 <Nothing\> i know he was the mayor of Boulder, Co at one point too
05:37:35 <Nothing\> okay i think i should play some retro games on my switch
05:37:52 <Ysjoelfir> In germany we send it either to Himmelpforten, Himmelstadt or Nikolausdorf or St. Nikolaus :D
05:37:58 <Nothing\> they've got donkey kong country 2 and i just got a craving to play it like 2 days ago so again, perfect
05:38:09 <Nothing\> Ysjoelfir, i have family in germany
05:38:17 <Nothing\> my mum was actually born there, i'm first gen cannuck
05:38:27 <Ysjoelfir> I know :)
05:38:32 <Nothing\> ah this is nothing new
05:38:43 <Nothing\> heh pardon the swiss cheese memory
05:38:51 <Ysjoelfir> thats ok, it happenes
05:38:59 <rust1> this guy was in the "city" council for a while. he is also the nicest guy ever: https://www.nocleansinging.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Fenriz-2.jpg
05:39:08 <Nothing\> plus i've also told kuschelpony about it as well so i assumed any memories i had of such a conversation were with him
05:39:25 <Nothing\> but i appreciate your understanding =)
05:39:54 <Nothing\> i can get very much like an old man, repeating nonsense stories ad nausea
05:40:06 <Nothing\> just ask rust1 lol he's heard em all
05:40:06 <rust1> yes, you said that
05:40:17 <rust1> x times, lol
05:40:17 <Nothing\> rust1, can you make me a promise?
05:40:31 <rust1> depends......
05:40:34 <Nothing\> if i ever die, will you write my autobiography?
05:40:45 <Nothing\> you're probably best qualified to do so
05:40:52 <rust1> uh, will you teach me how to write?
05:41:02 <Nothing\> only if you teach me how to teach
05:41:23 <rust1> ok, I will bring my straps, you will learn....
05:41:24 <Ysjoelfir> somehow I expected rust1 to googlemap those places now :D
05:42:00 <rust1> which places? di dI miss something AGAIN!??!
05:42:29 <Ysjoelfir> the santa claus post adress places
05:42:32 <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US, it's a 3" full-range driver (Visaton SL87XA, 4ohm version)
05:42:42 <rust1> I still wonder why Nothing\ refuses to tell me if he has been in dunnville
05:43:08 <rust1> Ysjoelfir I just happen to know those places, I work delivering that crap
05:43:11 <Nothing\> rust1, you've never asked me but yes i have actually
05:43:15 <Nothing\> i'm not too far from there
05:43:18 <Nothing\> why do you ask?
05:43:21 <Bird|otherbox> (the reason I'm trying with the penny is that I don't have a functioning scale to weigh out blue-tak with, or else I'd have done so)
05:43:25 <Nothing\> like i could literally drive there right now
05:43:35 <rust1> I have, but you always just start talking about soemthign else, lol
05:43:56 <Ysjoelfir> I meant the german ones. do your peoples also send it to out places?
05:44:02 <Ysjoelfir> *our
05:44:06 <Nothing\> rust1, why dunnville? that's a really obscure place to ask about lol
05:44:09 <Nothing\> there's nothing there
05:44:52 <rust1> there is a gas station, and repair shop, with a solar powered mini server mounted inside the wall there
05:44:53 <Nothing\> that'd be like me asking if you've ever been to... oh I dunno
05:44:54 * Nothing\ maps
05:45:21 <rust1> the ssd from my first new lapt....netbook lives there
05:45:46 <Nothing\> narvik
05:45:51 <Nothing\> ever been to narvik?
05:45:56 <rust1> narvik... yes, I have
05:45:58 <Nothing\> or kongsvinger
05:46:01 <rust1> yup
05:46:05 <Nothing\> kongsberg?
05:46:08 <rust1> yess
05:46:13 <Nothing\> cool
05:46:16 <Nothing\> heh
05:46:22 <Nothing\> i bet you like oslo
05:46:27 <Ysjoelfir> nope, he doesnt
05:46:28 <Nothing\> i bet it's your home away from home
05:46:28 <rust1> you would
05:46:32 * Ampera flings cinnamon buns at Nothing\
05:46:32 <Nothing\> lol
05:46:38 <Nothing\> i'm just messin with ya rust1
05:46:40 <Nothing\> i know you loath oslo
05:46:45 <rust1> yep
05:46:54 <rust1> butt, time for pizza... haha
05:46:54 * Nothing\ catches a cinnamon bun, dog-frisbee style
05:47:03 <Nothing\> butt time for pizza?
05:47:13 <Nothing\> i dunno what you and the mrs have planned but count me in
05:47:15 <Nothing\> lol
05:47:30 <Ysjoelfir> rust1 prefers Bergen over Oslo. Or maybe.... that other one on the bottom left.
05:47:43 <Ysjoelfir> with those fucking million roundabouts
05:47:50 <Nothing\> Ampera, i feel like cinnamon buns have been referenced in my life very recently
05:47:57 <Nothing\> bergen.... again!
05:48:11 <Nothing\> rust1, you remember the synchronicity i explained to you the one time? actually i think it was you
05:48:28 <Nothing\> you asked for an example and i explained one about a politician named Candice Bergen
05:48:58 <Nothing\> how i was confused about her name because it was the same as an obscure actress, so i had to look her up. Then 2 days later she became the leader of the conservative party.
05:49:09 <Nothing\> and now this!
05:49:14 <Nothing\> (being facetious)
05:49:46 <Nothing\> man, between oslo, bergen and stavanger, it barely even comes close to the population of toronto
05:49:51 <Nothing\> or at least the greater toronto area
05:50:10 <Nothing\> i think toronto itself is about 1.5M. Not sure about the GTA as a whole.
05:51:00 <Nothing\> holy crap
05:51:09 <Nothing\> 2.93 million people in toronto as of 2017
05:51:30 <rust_collector> I think it is interesting that norway is larger in area than germany, but we have 5.5 million people, ant they are close to 83, i think
05:51:42 <Nothing\> jeez almost 6 million people for the greater toronto area
05:51:46 <Ysjoelfir> yep
05:52:02 <Nothing\> rust_collector, it's the same deal here in canada
05:52:13 <Nothing\> we're what? 2nd biggest country by landmass in the world
05:52:21 <Ysjoelfir> thats because we decided that we don't need nature that much, so we basically fucked everythign up for cramped living spaces that are way to expensive
05:52:21 <Nothing\> but we only have about 35 million people
05:52:31 <Nothing\> and 90% of them live within 100km of the US border
05:52:54 <rust_collector> Ysjoelfir did you go look at the lignite mines?
05:53:07 <rust_collector> or "coal"
05:53:07 <Nothing\> i read that as "ignite mines"
05:53:27 <rust_collector> that is the problem with it, it barely burns
05:55:31 <rust_collector> but they have made some really impressive holes
05:55:36 <DHess_US> <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US, it's a 3" full-range driver (Visaton SL87XA, 4ohm version)
05:55:41 <Ysjoelfir> Did you reference that? I must have missed it
05:55:59 <DHess_US> I was reading a little bit. The mass should be distributed as much as possible, which means broken up into 4 equal pieces.
05:56:14 <DHess_US> And should be attacked around the rim of the dust cover.
05:56:19 <DHess_US> err, attached
05:56:38 <DHess_US> Did you use too much mass?
05:56:51 <DHess_US> It should be about enough to double the driver mass.
05:57:35 <DHess_US> It isn't really something I've dealt with a lot.
05:57:43 <DHess_US> I understand the principle.
06:00:14 <DHess_US> sorry, half the expected Mms figure
06:01:35 <T3sl4> sick, new cyriak just dropped
06:01:56 <T3sl4> https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/130657-overboard-6-map-island-hopping-adventure-update-5-08/
06:01:57 <EEVBot> [url] Overboard - 6 map island hopping adventure (update 5-08) - WADs & Mods - Doomworld | www.doomworld.com
06:05:05 <rust_collector> eh?
06:15:48 <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US: good point about mass distribution, the penny certainly isn't very even :P
06:16:21 <rust_collector> mass destruction, the way we like it
06:16:37 <DHess_US> Bird|otherbox, that may be what is going on. The mass needs to be distributed evenly where the driver attachment is stiffest.
06:17:04 <DHess_US> rust_collector, mass distribution, not destruction. Remain calm.
06:17:27 <rust_collector> awwww, and I was getting ready to go out
06:18:28 <Bird|otherbox> the driver's decently heavy overall, or are you talking about the mass of the moving elements when speaking about needing to double the mass? (cone, spider, voicecoil)
06:18:40 <Ysjoelfir> suggestion for everyone who likes good music: wacken livestream is up, and sabaton is starting in 15 minutes \o/
06:18:42 <DHess_US> The expected Mms.
06:19:36 <DHess_US> "Mms is commonly used in loudspeaker modelling software. It is Mmd plus the ‘air load’."
06:19:41 <Ysjoelfir> https://live.wacken.com
06:20:41 <rust_collector> OH WHAT A CREATIVE ADDRESS
06:23:28 <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US, moving parts + air load then, fair enough
06:24:02 <Bird|otherbox> you think trying 1 gram would be reasonable?
06:26:47 <DHess_US> Don't you have any data for the driver?
06:26:59 <DHess_US> If not, look up Mms for a similar driver.
06:32:46 <DHess_US> huh, I saw the original photo and thought the joke was funny, https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/05/europe/scientist-space-image-chorizo-intl-scli-scn/index.html
06:32:47 <EEVBot> [url] Scientist admits 'space telescope image' was actually a slice of chorizo - CNN | www.cnn.com
06:38:26 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
06:45:50 <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US, I have a small amount of data for it, but no Mms, and I'm not sure if there are a whole lot of similar parts out there
06:49:23 <DHess_US> Can you estimate the Mmd from your existing data?
06:50:36 <DHess_US> The Mms should be calculatable from the diameter and Mmd
06:50:48 <DHess_US> Maybe you should search online. I'm sure this has all be covered in detail.
06:51:13 <Bird|otherbox> let me try researching Mmd specifically
06:56:53 <Bird|otherbox> ...not really, since the data's so far outta whack
06:57:33 <Bird|otherbox> or at least, the resonance shift when I add the mass
06:58:06 <Bird|otherbox> basically, its "how on Earth could making my loudspeaker _more_ massive _raise_ the resonant frequency?"
06:58:50 <T3sl4> Bird|otherbox: the spring constant between VC and added mass can act in parallel with the suspension, raising it. You'll probably have a double peaked response in that case.
06:59:25 <T3sl4> Glue it in place (hot glue?) to get a stiffer mount.
06:59:54 <Bird|otherbox> hm. don't have a hot glue gun around these parts
07:01:57 <Bird|otherbox> trying to think of what we might have...I'm fairly sure we have cyanoacrylate of some flavor or another, but that'd be rather too permanent for this lawl
07:07:45 <Bird|otherbox> T3sl4: would double-stick tape work? (the thin stuff, not the thick foam stuff)
07:12:35 <DHess_US> The recommendations I have seen are to use blue tack for the mass.
07:19:09 <DHess_US> Ok, *now* I have a collection of loudspeaker books.
07:20:20 <T3sl4> Bird|otherbox: yeah, that'll be fine
07:20:28 <Nothing\> huh i just thought of a good every day comparison for the way analog computers are able to do their calculations almost instantaneously with no propagation delay like you get with digital computers.
07:20:53 <DHess_US> They only use them for slow things
07:21:21 <DHess_US> I remember when analog multipliers were faster and more accurate than digital multipliers.
07:21:22 <Bird|otherbox> DHess_US, yeah, I have neither bluetak nor a scale to weigh out set quantities of it on
07:21:26 <Nothing\> it's like how your old CRT TVs when you pressed input, or really any other button, would do the action immediately when you press it. Whereas smart TVs have to take a moment to process what happened and make it happen. Which in my case has exceeded 60 seconds in some cases.
07:21:55 <Nothing\> but i was just thinking that's exactly like how analog computers "do their thing" almost instantly
07:21:58 <DHess_US> Old oscilloscopes, including old DSOs were that way.
07:22:10 <Nothing\> the analog TVs did exactly what you told them to, and almost instantly
07:22:15 <DHess_US> My CRT DSOs are ready to run as soon as the CRT warms up, which is fast.
07:22:50 <Nothing\> DHess_US, yeah i've gotta say i'm not terribly impressed with my DSO. I mean, it's a Hantek so I wasn't expecting the greatest quality. But I at least expected it to not have any glitches. Or for them to actually be patched.
07:22:55 <T3sl4> if you don't mind it might be a bit drifty for the next 10 mins or so
07:23:41 <Nothing\> plus for some reason it claims to have a 40kb memory but it only ever lets me use 8 or 20kb. The 40's always greyed out.
07:23:52 <DHess_US> My Tektronix 545 is drifty.
07:24:09 <DHess_US> Only one of my 2230/2232s is drifty at warm up.
07:24:49 <rust_collector> patched? they are stuck in a box, and sit there until you buy them
07:24:50 <Nothing\> i'm not even sure about the accuracy of mine because i've nothing to compare it against. Other than static readings on a multimeter. But even then, without a high tolerance reference I can only guess how accurate my meters are.
07:25:13 <Nothing\> rust_collector, yeah but you install firmware updates as soon as you get it
07:25:18 <DHess_US> You can buy a 0.05% reference IC for less than $10
07:25:20 <Nothing\> since there will inevitably be some
07:25:35 <Nothing\> DHess_US, yeah? got a chip number handy off the top of your head?
07:25:37 <Nothing\> oh actually
07:25:38 <Nothing\> dur
07:25:40 <Nothing\> i have some
07:25:54 <DHess_US> Just look it up on Mouser, let's see ...
07:25:58 <Nothing\> zeners for one, i hear make good references. Though I'm not sure how tight.
07:26:15 <Nothing\> but the chips i have... oh what's the number. very common, come in TO-92 packages. TL...
07:26:40 <rust_collector> nooo!
07:26:41 <Nothing\> TL494?
07:26:45 <Nothing\> or is it the 431?
07:26:56 <Nothing\> 431
07:26:57 <rust_collector> that is a pwm controller thing, iirc?
07:27:10 <rust_collector> 431 is a "zener"
07:27:12 <Nothing\> yeah, 494's a PWM controller. But the TL431 is a voltage reference.
07:27:20 <Nothing\> rust_collector, lol yup that's what i figured.
07:27:29 <Nothing\> probably why i got 100 for like $1
07:28:01 <rust_collector> not sure how super those are... do you want to tune your thing after one of those?
07:28:11 <Nothing\> diodes seem very touchy to thermal inconsistencies though
07:28:22 <DHess_US> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Renesas-Intersil/ISL21090BFB825Z-TK?qs=9fLuogzTs8IgRFMkAaA0Hw%3D%3D
07:28:39 <Nothing\> rust_collector, i'm just looking for a high tolerance reference to test equipment on
07:28:46 <Nothing\> thanks DHess_US
07:29:21 <DHess_US> Or a 0.04% DIP, https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/REF195GPZ?qs=WIvQP4zGani0jPrITEAMJg%3D%3D
07:29:41 <Nothing\> 0.02% accuracy
07:29:42 <Nothing\> i like it
07:29:50 <Nothing\> i wonder if i could bug TI for some freebies
07:29:52 <Nothing\> heh
07:30:25 <Nothing\> i haven't taken advantage yet, but i have a friend who got a whole bunch of jellybean stuff from TI just by requesting samples.
07:30:26 <Ysjoelfir> https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/LM399AHPBF?qs=ytflclh7QUUM8sawX7U9qQ%3D%3D
07:31:15 <Nothing\> hrm this is a 2% tolerance for ~$20
07:31:19 <Nothing\> i wonder why it's so pricy
07:31:46 <rust_collector> because you want one
07:31:55 <Ysjoelfir> is that better? https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/LTZ1000ACHPBF?qs=hVkxg5c3xu%252BsNmC%252BZrOWRw%3D%3D
07:32:01 <rust_collector> heh
07:32:20 <rust_collector> it probably is...better
07:32:41 <Nothing\> heh the best voltage reference i ever come across in circuits other than a zener is by doing something like putting a few diodes in series with eachother and you can tap them at certain points even. But that's gonna be touchy with temperature.
07:33:00 <DHess_US> It is pricy because of its low temperature coefficient and low noise
07:33:06 <Nothing\> ah
07:33:30 <DHess_US> zener references are not trimmed so have low initial accuracy, but low noise and low temperature coefficient.
07:34:04 <DHess_US> I always liked using the LM329.
07:34:20 <Nothing\> oh yeah the voltage on diodes even changes during operation as they warm up
07:34:23 <Nothing\> i forgot about that part
07:34:33 <Nothing\> you have to give them a few minutes to warm up to operating temp
07:34:44 <DHess_US> But they used to be cheap and now only analog devices makes them.
07:34:51 <Nothing\> depending if they have current running through them or now
07:34:56 <DHess_US> A 329 is a 399 without the heater
07:35:06 <Nothing\> lm329... i might have one of those
07:35:08 <Nothing\> er some
07:35:21 <Nothing\> i bought up a whole bunch of random LM series stuff a few months ago.
07:36:17 <Nothing\> nope, no 329
07:36:23 <Nothing\> but that must be added to the collection now
07:36:33 <Nothing\> that's the rule
07:37:31 <rust_collector> 399?
07:39:09 <DHess_US> LM399
07:39:21 <DHess_US> heated zener reference
07:39:30 <rust_collector> yes, did he look for that, in his bin
07:39:31 <DHess_US> precursor to the LM10000
07:39:47 <DHess_US> Or LT10000, whatever the number is
07:40:12 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
08:39:14 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
09:07:12 <rust_collector> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rbHTHTrMfQ
09:07:12 <EEVBot> [url] † 1349 † Nerves (Bauhaus cover) †.wmv - YouTube | www.youtube.com
09:11:32 <rust_collector> whoa! a black whiteboard in the cover of a calculator
09:39:56 <jaymax> Uhm. Pepperoni and Cheddar coma.
09:40:28 <jaymax> \o_
09:52:56 <electrohead> o/
09:53:04 * electrohead offers chicken and potatoes
09:53:16 <rust1> again?
10:07:23 * Ampera hugs electrofriend
10:07:40 * Ampera poutines something inside of jaymax
10:12:15 Quit: arekm ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
10:13:51 Join: arekm ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:21:10 Quit: arekm ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
10:21:29 Join: arekm ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:33:16 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:53:10 Nick: dogwo is now known as DogWomble
10:58:17 <electrohead> rust1: I had steak and potatoes yesterday
10:58:21 * electrohead hugs Ampera
10:59:08 <DogWomble> time for dinner at your place electrohead/
10:59:17 <electrohead> yup :P
11:08:31 * Ampera throws a hatchet at Halcyon
11:08:38 <Ampera> make me soup!
11:20:03 <rust_collector> zooop?
11:20:41 <DogWomble> super soup?
11:20:52 <DogWomble> superb super soup?
11:21:47 <rust_collector> soljanka
11:22:04 <DogWomble> is that like janky solitaire?
11:22:30 <rust_collector> I do not know what you call it, I am foreigner
11:25:46 Join: weissbier2 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
11:25:52 Quit: weissbier1 ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
12:54:18 <arch> migrating from mdadm raid to ZFS Z2
12:54:42 <arch> i like the checksumming feature and not having to rebuild the array on any errors
13:07:05 <arch> T3sl4, updated meme: https://i.imgur.com/WdfVbos.jpg
13:18:56 Join: MRiddickW ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
13:58:30 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
14:25:33 <electrohead> lol
14:39:55 <AtomicSpark> Does anyone know if 99centHobbies eBay store actually reopening on Aug 26, 2022? I'm just a poor American trying to get their hands on a pair of Brymen test leads and alligator clips.
14:51:48 Join: Kuschelpony ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:03:08 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
15:41:00 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:42:30 * Halcyon hugs Ampera
15:45:22 * DogWomble ampera's Halcyon
15:45:33 <Halcyon> Heh
15:48:07 <Kuschelpony> wb Halcyon and a nice sunday
16:00:12 <Halcyon> Hello Kuschelpony. Thank you, you as well.
16:34:39 * Halcyon licks electrohead
17:08:43 Join: modrobert ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
18:48:42 <Ysjoelfir> morningses!
18:51:55 <Kuschelpony> Moin
19:23:28 <Halcyon> Hello Ysjoelfir
19:23:37 <Ysjoelfir> Moin you two
19:23:45 <Halcyon> \o/
19:23:55 <LordGeir> Mornin' folks!
19:24:13 <Halcyon> Hey LordGeir
19:25:10 <LordGeir> How's this Sunday treating you so far?
19:25:30 <Halcyon> It's almost 1930 here, but it's been good. I had a nap earlier
19:25:51 <Halcyon> How about you?
19:26:36 <LordGeir> Close to 1130AM here, and I've been taking it easy. Bit of a head ache today, but nothing I can't handle
19:30:59 <Halcyon> Aw :(
19:31:44 <Ysjoelfir> Over here, the misses is enjoying her f ree time in bed while I play a cute game called Sweet Transit
19:31:57 <Halcyon> What does that involve?
19:38:04 Quit: Erlend^SE ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
19:40:11 <Ysjoelfir> building trains and moving stuff from A to B
19:40:17 <Halcyon> Oh I see
19:53:41 <Ysjoelfir> its a pretty cute game
20:15:25 <steve30> hi
20:20:03 <Ysjoelfir> hi steve
20:36:41 <steve30> Halcyon, yesterday at the Doncaster alphabet-soup-pride I spoke to someone who was wearing clothing which said "POLICE" in big letters :p
20:57:13 <steve30> i should probably go to the gym
20:59:55 <Kuschelpony> steve, i began to refer to these prides more to their colors than to their letters
21:01:13 <steve30> But there are so many different colours to choose from. Even police-guy only knew the standard rainbow and transgender flags and didn't know what all the others were.
21:02:38 <Kuschelpony> its complicated...
21:02:53 <Kuschelpony> i also had no own rainbow on our parade yesterday
21:04:52 * steve30 ought to go to the gym
21:29:38 Quit: DogWomble ([email protected]) EOF from client
21:57:44 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/comments/wi94t3/tired_of_being_prey_rabbit_takes_a_bite_out_of_a/
21:57:44 <EEVBot> [reddit] Tired of being prey, Rabbit takes a bite out of a Stoat. ('During the Hunt' flair) (https://gfycat.com/poshdisfiguredindianspinyloach) to r/natureismetal | 3195 points (98.0%) | 71 comments | Posted by EmptySpaceForAHeart | Created at 2022-08-07 - 06:39:01UTC
21:59:42 <Ampera> the rabbit's like: mmm fuckin tasty
22:00:05 <T3sl4> most herbivores are not 100%
22:00:57 <Ampera> Imma launch my bunny at you, and you gonna see who's not 100%
22:01:20 * T3sl4 runs away
22:01:51 <Ampera> currently doing some nice personal security autumn cleaning
22:02:26 <Ampera> am moving everything from gmail to protonmail, and if I still feel like it, will clear out my one last remaining password manager
22:02:53 <T3sl4> mangy manager
22:17:08 Join: dogwo ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:15:33 * electrohead yawns
23:23:16 <electrohead> I use hushmail, since I have a short and cool email address :p
23:23:20 <electrohead> @hush.ai
23:23:56 <Ampera> My ultimate goal is to run my own email server
23:24:14 <Ampera> but it's been taking me along time to get around to that, so I decided that I should put things on protonmail until I can get my act together
23:41:14 Join: watcher ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:47:51 <watcher> Hi o/
23:47:59 * Ampera watches closely
23:56:21 <Ysjoelfir> mornings watcher
23:56:31 * Ysjoelfir watches Ampera watching watcher
23:56:37 <watcher> mornings Ysjoelfir
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