#eevblog - 2022-07-22 - AustNet Archive Project

// #eevblog — 2022-07-22

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01:35 <arch> has anyone here tried reflow soldering FR-1 (phenolic resin paper based) copperclad pcbs?
02:35 <K> or can anyone tell me where i can buy double sided FR-1 ?
05:54 <electrohead> K: yeah, arch has some he's willing to sell
06:33 <arch> K, why do you need double sided FR-1?
06:46 <K> coz im wierd
13:08 Quit: Zsjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
14:48 <arch> so a neat trick i found: you can make FR-1 pcbs snap in half evenly if you score the opposite side just a few times
15:16 <arch> you have to score both sides, but the opposite side, you just need to score it 5 or 6 times
16:02 <arch> and they drill rather nicely too. i was worried they would crumble when drilled, but they dont
16:27 <arch> and no fiberglass dust!
16:45 <K> yup
17:20 <arch> i think it's my go-to material now, at least for low-stress/low-heat applications
44:28 Join: Boris ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
53:16 Quit: Boris ([email protected]) Quit: Connection closed
56:23 <electrohead> Ampera: sharing that link in here as well, somebody may find it useful - https://github.com/phillipberndt/autorandr
56:24 <EEVBot> [GitHub] phillipberndt/autorandr - Auto-detect the connected display hardware and load the appropriate X11 setup using xrandr | 78.2% Python 7.4% Makefile 5.1% Roff 9.3% Other | Last Push: 2022-07-04 - 13:25:21EDT | Stargazers: 1847 | Watchers: 24 | Forks: 95 | Network: 95 | Open Issues: 91
01:38 <Ampera> Now to figure out why windowmaker hates mode changes so much
07:58 <K> it is conservative
53:30 Join: rust1 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
53:52 <rust1> mooooo? (moonboots)
53:53 Join: Nothing\ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
54:01 <rust1> oh great
54:28 <K> no u.
54:44 <rust1> great u
54:54 <rust1> U?
03:29 <Nothing\> huh
03:34 <Nothing\> i just learned something new
04:05 <rust1> oh no
04:07 <Nothing\> you guys are familiar with the Russian folk song, Korobeiniki, right? The phototypical theme for Tetris.
04:08 <rust1> why?
04:12 <electrohead> !giphy no you're a towel
04:13 <EEVBot> electrohead: https://media1.giphy.com/media/PjxgoctsiTZiOPllqE/giphy.gif?cid=28c3c3c85e4ca5efece3c6ea7949b78f6ae4e43e6c26e42f&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
04:20 <Nothing\> rust1, i make a point of learning something new every day
04:24 <Nothing\> actually, at least 1 new thing
04:40 <electrohead> !giphy nothing is nothing
04:40 <EEVBot> electrohead: https://media4.giphy.com/media/3otPozSyhM6qlht6g0/giphy.gif?cid=28c3c3c8ffc220f91c5e3309b48cb51d23257cea72d2a93c&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
04:48 <Nothing\> another new thing i learned is that the fact that andromeda is our nearest neighbour galaxy is complete BULL
04:51 <electrohead> well now
04:53 <electrohead> lol
04:54 <Nothing\> it's not even close to being true
05:03 <Nothing\> i dunno why people say it is
05:25 <rust1> because it just is
05:33 <Nothing\> the closest one is Canis Majoris at 25,000 light years (opposed to 2.5 million for andromeda)
05:50 <rust1> stop posting fake news
06:00 <Nothing\> but what's more, on a list of the rest relaxies, there are 85 other galaxies closer to us than Andromeda
06:08 <Nothing\> which I didn't even know there were that moany
06:24 <rust1> are they taxable?
06:38 <Nothing\> i most likely
06:58 <Nothing\> lol electrohead
07:14 <Nothing\> man, i got some garlic shrimp skewers i made for breakfast that i was so excited about
08:27 <Nothing\> UGH
08:33 <Nothing\> i was hoping it was just the look
08:55 <Nothing\> they're freezer burnt as shit, dry as a bone, and this sickly grey/white color after being cooked
09:06 <Nothing\> i just tried one and had to spit it out
09:24 <Nothing\> which, garlic shrimp is one of my favourite foods. for my to spit it out, there must be something egregiously wrong with it.
10:00 <Nothing\> and given I paid $25 for fuckin 4 of these, you bet your ass i'm gonna complain to the distributor and grocer
10:46 <Nothing\> i was gonna say the grocer for keeping it so long it became freezer burnt, but that's why we have best before dates and proper packaging. Which is the distributor's job, not the grocer.
10:47 <rust1> so, what about tetris?
10:55 <Nothing\> what about tetris?
10:59 <rust1> dunno?
11:03 <Nothing\> sorry i'm having blackouts this morning
11:11 <rust1> the song
11:16 <Nothing\> oh right
11:18 <Nothing\> korobeiniki
11:30 <Nothing\> the translated name is "the peddler"
11:57 <Nothing\> which i always knew. But what I didn't know is that Korobeiniki were a class of peddlers in that era and area of Russia.
12:06 <rust1> did you know that was actually "translated" from greek? rewritten, or whatever
12:17 <Nothing\> really?
12:18 * Ampera hugs Nothing\
12:28 <rust1> because I have no idea, I just write randome stuff now
12:28 <Nothing\> wow i'd love to heard/read the greek version
12:33 <Ampera> how are you doing friend guy?
12:36 <Nothing\> hey Ampera we're talking russian folk music
12:42 <rust1> from greece
12:53 <rust1> or nintendo, depending on how you see it
13:01 <Nothing\> Ampera, not bad. I woulda been in a bad way because of pooproblems and clinic day. But thankfully i had meds to help that.
13:20 <Nothing\> and my doctor was in surgery so i was just in and out to grab my script
13:24 <Ampera> Отава ё is good
13:39 <Nothing\> but another thing i noticed about the word korobeiniki
13:43 <Nothing\> and kinda wondered
13:50 <Nothing\> is the prefix "koro"
14:02 <Nothing\> as in "korosho" which is russian for good
14:15 <Nothing\> it makes me wonder if the wods are related etymologically
15:33 <rust1> you need more rgb
15:55 <Ampera> I've fixed a bunch of long term problems I've been having with my thinkpad.
17:49 <rust1> you took the keyboard out, and taped a macbook inside it?
17:54 <electrohead> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7VOflsuVS4
17:54 <EEVBot> [url] Nokia 5110 Communicator - YouTube | www.youtube.com
17:56 <electrohead> o.O
18:06 <electrohead> heh, speaking of putting things inside things
18:20 <Ampera> rust1 I took the keyboard out and shoved a nextstation inside of it :D
18:28 <rust1> WOOHOO!
21:58 <Nothing\> oh rust1, Ampera, electrohead
22:02 <Nothing\> you'll be so proud of me
22:21 <rust1> good boy!
23:14 <Nothing\> i switched my default search engine to duckduckgo and installed some sort of browse extension that blocks google sponsored ads or anything that google uses to track you.
23:58 <rust1> yes, good boy.
24:04 <Ampera> I don't do either of those things
24:13 <rust1> now you will have completely random search results, lol
24:21 <Ampera> well I have tracker blockers, but mine is built into my browser and my email masking extension
24:26 <Ampera> and I use google for all my searches
24:44 <Ampera> duckduckgo is kinda a crock of shit
25:00 <Nothing\> to each their own
25:07 <Nothing\> personally i've found it's hit or miss
25:28 <Nothing\> so i use it as my default (for now) and if it doesn't find what i want, I use google.
25:30 <rust1> I usually get "better" results when not using google search. but it depends on what sort of thing I look for
25:40 <Nothing\> rust1, exactly
25:51 <Nothing\> the more trendy, the better your google rsetus o
26:10 <Ampera> duckduckgo afaik doesn't actually prevent tracking, most of the results are from bing anyways, and they still manipulate search results
26:17 <Ampera> like "downranking russian misinformation"
26:23 <Nothing\> i don't care about tracking tbh
26:23 <Ampera> and blocking pirating sites
26:29 <Ampera> lol, so why use it
26:34 <Nothing\> i've got nothing to hide, though targeted ads are creepy
26:55 <Ampera> being security hip is the only selling point of duckduckgo
27:15 <Nothing\> Ampera, because it provides more relevant search results. Have you not seen me lament about how google is like "trying to reason with a brain damaged child"
27:16 <rust1> I just find more of the stuff I want, if I do not use google, so... that is why I do that
27:23 <Ampera> no
27:29 <Nothing\> Ampera, ah, well that's why
27:34 <Ampera> I've never had a problem with google's search results
27:39 <Ampera> none that isn't inherent to search engines in general
27:47 <rust1> good for you
27:48 <Nothing\> most of my results are not so much what i'm searching for, but rather what google assumes I meant to search for
28:06 <Nothing\> Ampera, well like rusty said, it depends what you search
28:55 <Nothing\> i find more technical based searches turn up less relevant results on google
29:00 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
29:04 <Nothing\> it's definitely meant for laypeople
29:06 <Ampera> just my experience
29:12 <Nothing\> yup i know
29:20 <Ampera> I mean I've been using google my entire life, you need to know how to use it I think
29:31 <Ampera> maybe it's just more intuitive to how my brain works, and other options are more intuitive to other people's brains
29:32 <Nothing\> everyone's different so you can't compare everyone to one another for most things
29:37 <Ampera> sure you can
29:43 <Ampera> that's the whole point of comparing things
29:47 <Ampera> to find differences
30:18 <Nothing\> you can but it won't be accurate on account of the variability inherent to people
30:29 <Nothing\> among other hinggs
30:53 <Nothing\> man i wish i had money
31:07 <Nothing\> i wanna get some more games for my Switch but they're fuckin $90 a pop :/
31:16 <Nothing\> and by some i mean like, 3
31:18 <Nothing\> maybe
31:40 <Nothing\> plus i need to get a new SD card for it because I filled up my 128gb
32:13 <rust1> when you talk about that, something in my brain says you should waste it on drugs in stead. but yeah, without money, it is not a big issue, I guess
32:28 <Nothing\> I saw they have 1tb microsd cards now, which I did not expect. I figured I could maybe find a 512gb at most
32:41 <Ampera> 1tb uSD cards have been around for a while
32:48 <Ampera> I'd stop at 512gb imo.
32:52 <Nothing\> yeah, they're not too cheap though
32:55 <Nothing\> that's what i was thinking
33:03 <Ampera> uSD cards are almost disposable, due to their size and fragility
33:12 <Nothing\> bu the time i even fill up a 256gb card, bigger cards will be much more affordable
33:31 <Nothing\> as it stands, a tb card is something like $180
33:42 <Nothing\> which, i might as well get an external HD at that price
33:52 <Nothing\> pay have as much for twice the space
33:56 <rust1> yesss!
34:14 <rust1> or, just buy a smaller external drive
34:18 <Nothing\> but my mum and i have already decided we're gonna split on an 8tb drive for archiving
34:45 <rust1> and you will back that up on what?
34:57 <Ampera> I'm kinda waiting for 2TB NVMe SSDs to come down in price
35:16 <Nothing\> media. Mum's pictures. And our movies for the most part
35:19 <Ampera> maybe to around 150USD/pop or so for a decent Samsung unit. Then I can replace all the 1TB SSDs in my laptop and put them in my servers
35:29 <Ampera> 3x2TB on my laptop would be pretty nice
35:59 <Nothing\> man i cleared up like 100gb on my one HD on my computer yesterday
36:12 <Nothing\> i deleted that stupid final fantasy 7
36:16 <Nothing\> "remake"
37:26 <Nothing\> which is almost completely linear, has no overworld, and is just the first few hours of the game blown up into a 40 hour clusterfuck
37:59 <Ampera> https://i.imgur.com/Ea8Ek6r.png is my disk setup
38:00 <rust1> as I said, just go spend your money on drugs in stead. or maybe pizza
38:16 <Ampera> I can second pizza
38:19 <Ampera> maybe pizza with drugs on top
38:39 <rust1> that is not a bad option
38:53 <Nothing\> okay i'm gonna go play smash bros
38:55 <Nothing\> ttfs
38:58 <Nothing\> ttfn
39:03 <Nothing\> have fun guys!
39:18 <Nothing\> heh i think i mighta finally got ym money's worth out of a switch game with this one
43:09 <rust1> I did not know it was a free game. that is interesting
45:01 <Ampera> lol
47:17 <Nothing\> man wtf
47:31 <Nothing\> was gonna install crash bandicoot trilogy while i played my swithc
47:36 <Nothing\> it's friggin 30gb
47:43 <Nothing\> for 3 playstation games
47:56 <Nothing\> sure they're X64 ports, but HOW?
49:23 <Nothing\> i'm still trying to find a time to install red dead redemption 2 because it's a 3 hour commitment and my computer slows to crawl while it's installing so i've gotta wait for a night where I have at least 100gb free and set the game to intall whiel i seep
50:00 <Nothing\> i tell you guys though, if you don't have it already you NEEDNEEDNEED to get WinDirStat if you have a windows box
50:07 <rust1> nope
50:20 <Nothing\> you can just look and see everything taking up the most space on your hd at a gance
50:40 <rust1> it is iso files
50:57 <rust1> downloads
51:02 <rust1> done
52:34 <Ampera> idk if there really is anyone with a windows box
52:46 <Ampera> I guess I'm on one right now, Ysjoelfir is known to have one
52:53 <rust1> I have one here
52:53 <Ampera> kinda don't know of anyone else here that regularly uses windows
53:04 <Ampera> like, as a daily driver
53:07 <Ampera> idk
53:17 <Ysjoelfir> eh?
53:22 <rust1> the garage machine uses it, so the rust123456 is winders
55:42 <jaymax> rust_account_collector then?
56:01 <Nothing\> oh cool
56:01 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir aren't you a windows guy?
56:12 <Ysjoelfir> I am, why?
56:20 <Nothing\> JWST just took a picture of what they think is the oldest galaxy to have ever been imaged
56:36 <Nothing\> only 300My after the big bang
56:48 <Nothing\> the previous record was 600
57:06 <jaymax> before or after the latest micrometeriod impact?
57:20 <Nothing\> it's crazy to think they're taking pictures from so early in the universe's life that it wasn't even transparent to visible light
57:27 <Nothing\> jaymax, after, actually
57:44 <jaymax> So a bit messed up?
57:58 <Nothing\> so even though it caused significant damage. It's still not enough to interfere too much (at least that I'm aware of)
58:03 <Nothing\> yeah
58:40 <Nothing\> it was bigger than they initially thought. And a larger impact than anything they had made models to predict the effects of such a strike.
58:41 <Ampera> I think they accounted for a strike in the design.
58:48 <Nothing\> they did
58:48 <Ampera> maybe some of the optics/mirrors are redundant
58:55 <Nothing\> but like i said, not one this big
59:07 <Nothing\> Ampera, nah unfortunately there's no redundancy.
59:17 <Nothing\> those mirrors are engineering marvels
59:36 <Nothing\> like, they don't just tilt, pan and yaw
59:47 <Nothing\> they can also flex inward and outward
59:54 <Nothing\> to be parabolic
00:10 <Nothing\> which i thought was absolutely amazing
00:24 <Nothing\> that and being able to line them up to within nanometer precision
00:47 <Nothing\> But it doesn't sound like the mission's going to last anywhere near its 20 year expected mission time.
01:27 <Ampera> Honestly, any pictures it can get is a benefit to our collective human knowledge.
01:44 <Nothing\> so far, i'm not sure if it's just while in lagrange L2, or if some if them happened en-route, but to date JWST has actually had 6 impact events
01:55 <Nothing\> which they said is a lot more than they expected.
02:13 <electrohead> Nothing\: what browser extension did you install?
02:18 <Nothing\> so it sounds like it's gonna be destroyed by space debris within the next few years
02:23 * electrohead hopes it's ublock origin
02:52 <Nothing\> electrohead, duckduckgo. Apparently they have thein own extension. And yeah I've already got uBlock sso, no worries hter C
02:57 <Nothing\> :)
03:16 <Nothing\> oh lol
03:27 <electrohead> ahh, ddg privacy essentials?
03:38 <Nothing\> electrohead, that sounds about right
03:48 <electrohead> how is it? I never used it
03:51 <Nothing\> i really don't care about privacy tbh
03:59 <Nothing\> it's more the resource usage and ads i hate
04:09 <electrohead> hrmm
04:16 <Nothing\> especially when it interferes with the normal operation of the site
04:48 <Nothing\> to be that's like saying "shilling crap you don't want is more important to us than helping you find what you want"
05:35 <Nothing\> man i wish i could find a datasheet for this IC in this microwave i tore down
06:28 <Nothing\> it's some ancient Daewoo deal. But I'm trying to reverse engineer it.
11:55 <rust1> so, what is it called?
12:31 <electrohead> what's the numbers on the IC?
16:07 <Nothing\> well that's dumb
17:05 <Nothing\> now to make sure you're not a robot on aliexpress, or maybe for security, they have a thing where to log they send you an email with a confirmation number, and you have 60 seconds to log into your email, get the number and copy it into aliexpress's janky form.
17:32 <Nothing\> which of course, i missed out the first time because Google's all "hey it's time to review the security policies on your account" when i tried to log in lol
17:54 <Nothing\> but for some reason when i told aliexpress to send another one, it didn't do anything.
18:05 <Nothing\> So I tried the original code and it still worked lol.
18:12 <Nothing\> talk about broken. Jeez.
18:58 <Nothing\> Still not as sketchy as the fact that I have 2 different passwords for online banking which both work just like normal
19:34 <Nothing\> the only difference is the one starts with an upper case letter, but you would think case sensitivity would be kind of important for any password. Especialyl for banking.
19:49 <Nothing\> and it's been this way for years.
19:57 <Nothing\> through multiple card number changes.
42:29 <Nothing\> hrm is 940nm a good frequency for IR LEDs?
43:54 <Nothing\> i'm not even sure what i want to do with them. I guess just imagining experiments. Like I have a camera I took the filter off so I could do fun things with that. If I can get a strong enough one I was hoping I could shine in through my hand like you do with a really bright flashlight. But since it's infrared, it would go through a lot easier, presumably.
44:03 <Nothing\> IR starts at what? 700nm?
44:10 <Ampera> aaaand biden has covid
44:23 <Nothing\> Ampera, that's the end of him
44:28 <Ampera> lol
44:32 <Nothing\> he's too old and frail
44:33 <Ampera> he's supposedly got mild symptoms
44:39 <Nothing\> i'm not kidding
44:40 <Ampera> Let's fucking hope not
44:44 <Nothing\> Ampera, him and every other politician
44:47 <Ampera> then the first female president is gonna be kamala fucking harrison
44:54 <Nothing\> harris
44:57 <Nothing\> but yeah, what's she done?
45:06 <Nothing\> i haven't heard anything about hear since the swearing in
45:11 <Ampera> >.>
45:13 <Ampera> well yeah, she's VP
45:19 <Ampera> you never hear about them unless things are really bad
45:27 <Ampera> I've not heard good things, but I'd rather you do your own research
46:19 <Nothing\> yeah lol
46:21 <Nothing\> pretty much
46:28 <Nothing\> or unless you're spirow agnew
46:35 <Nothing\> or running for president
46:49 <Nothing\> btw Ampera
47:44 <Nothing\> as your attorney, I advise you to buy a Nintendo Switch. You'll need breath of wild beauces it's the best single player game, and super smash bros so we can play it together
47:57 <Ampera> too fucking expensive
48:03 <Nothing\> oh i know
48:04 <Ampera> I'll buy one when the oled switches can do homebrew
48:11 <Ampera> games need to be half the price, straight up
48:17 <Nothing\> after taxes and everything, mine came to about $600CAD
48:27 <Ampera> holy shit
48:31 <Nothing\> plus the games are $90 after taxes. $80 normal.
48:37 <Ampera> fucking power metal version of my heart will go on on this albom
48:50 <Nothing\> Ampera, yeah but you see the price of the PS5s and whatever the new xbox is called?
48:53 <Ampera> Whoever came up with that needs to be fucking spanked
48:59 <Ampera> I can think of reasons to buy a switch
49:00 <Nothing\> you're looking at $1000+
49:06 <Ampera> I cannot think of a single reason whatsoever to buy a playstation or xbox
49:20 <Ampera> maybe 1 or 2 for the playstation, but I can honestly not be fucked with those
49:37 <Ampera> Despite being easily the worst hardware out of all of them, Nintendo still remains as the only real innovator in the console space.
49:51 <Ampera> The rest are just finding new ways to package gaming PCs in shittier and marginally cheaper boxes
50:33 <Nothing\> Ampera, i bought it mostly because at the time I was still relegated to using a pi so I wanted an option for playing PC games like Diablo 3. But more than that, there were a lot of Nintendo-only games that I was really interested in so I also got it for the sake of being able to play though
51:29 <Ampera> Nintendo has one thing and one thing only going for them. They have extracted the essence of fun into a standardized formula which they are able to mechanically apply to literally anything.
51:55 <Ampera> It's how they can make almost the same game over and over again with minimal improvements, and still end up with some of the most compelling offerings worthy of shelling out to play them
52:21 <Ampera> They're the one company capable of making a single portable device that you can give to almost anyone, and be reasonably confident they can find /something/ entertaining to do with it.
52:35 <Nothing\> normally i'd say i can't justify spending hundreds of dollars for a console to play a few games from an LP you don't find on another console. But what can I say? I've been a nintendo fanboy since I was old enough to put up a controler (86)
53:16 <Ampera> I've always been a Sega fan, tbh.
53:16 <Nothing\> but it's not a blind love. I didn't bother getting the gamecube and just pirated the games because there's a homebrew app that lets you play gamecube isos on a wi-
53:19 <Ampera> My first console was a genesis
53:30 <Nothing\> mine was... I guess c64
53:37 <Nothing\> although we had a bunch when I was born
54:04 <Ampera> C64 is a computer, not a console
54:09 <Ampera> big difference
54:16 <Nothing\> not really
54:21 <Ampera> absolutely
54:24 <Nothing\> a console's just a computer made to play video games
54:33 <Nothing\> back then there was definitely more of a difference
54:35 <Nothing\> i'll give you that
54:46 <Ampera> a C64 came with everything you needed to write your own complete software for business, entertainment, education, and with minimal expansion, communication
54:56 <Ampera> A sega genesis game with two controller ports and a cartridge slot.
55:00 <Ampera> *game -> came
55:16 <Ampera> Today the difference remains largely the same.
55:17 <Nothing\> lol
55:21 <Ampera> Computers are designed to be programmed and expanded.
55:26 <Nothing\> g and c are right next to eachother on my keyboard
55:48 <Ampera> If you cannot program a personal computer to do whatever you want, then it's an appliance, not an actual PC
00:33 <Nothing\> why?
00:46 <Nothing\> that's not what every other definition of a PC say
00:53 <Nothing\> including that of IEEE
03:50 <rust1> they are wrong, lol. I think I agree with ampera there. Not that that matters, lol
17:43 <Nothing\> sweet
17:49 <Nothing\> 5 watt IR LED modules
18:06 <Nothing\> that'd see through my hand pretty good
19:00 <Nothing\> rust1, i can't tell if you're joking but if you are being serious, would you mind explaining a bit more in depth? I'm curious to know more.
19:18 <Nothing\> plus if i've been under a wrong impression my whole life, i'd prefer if it was fixed
21:01 <Nothing\> that's what i tell people when they accuse me of being pedantic when i correct their spelling or something. I tell them that personally, I'd rather have my ego bruised for a very short time (if at all) when I'm corrected just once. Rather than going my whole life beliiving, or worse, saying to others incorrect information
21:17 <rust1> nah, i just think that if it is a computer, you should be able to make it do whatever computing things you want, if it can only play games, or only be a calculator, it is "just an appliance" (applfailedoutboundassociations)
21:22 <Nothing\> who would then potentially go on to say the same to others and so on, jus like a disease (worst case scenario)
21:39 <Nothing\> so i see it as doing my a favour when somebody corrects me. so long as they're not dicks about it.
22:00 <Nothing\> rust1, oh yeah, a computer is definitely an appliance
22:06 <rust1> for me, it is just what I personally think, i have no idea about what is "correct" and I really so not care either
22:08 <Nothing\> but i mean, what else would you classify it as?
22:19 <Nothing\> or COULD you classify it as
22:36 <Nothing\> and being an appliance doesn't trivialize its usefullness
22:49 <Nothing\> changing the label doesn't change the object
22:54 <rust1> I did not say it was useless,
23:18 <rust1> just not a computer, or pc, or what it was
23:29 <Nothing\> no i know
23:59 <Nothing\> i was referring to Ampera's statement. The implication seemed to be that people use computers as appliances, so those peoples' computers are more trivial
24:18 <Nothing\> or something to that effect. Obviously i have a bad habit of reading into things a tad much lol
24:26 <rust1> well, they can be used as that, but.
24:43 <rust1> I do not think that was the point?
25:53 <Nothing\> rust1, absolutely. But the way I see it, the best use for a computer is what fits the owner/user's needs and desires rather than say, running linux and a bunch of other arbitrary things that some people (not talking about Ampera to be clear) think is the only "proper" way to use a computer
25:59 <Nothing\> you know the type of person i mean
26:32 <rust1> sure.
27:09 <Nothing\> if a pensioner buys a computer to check her email it's not gonna be very ideal if she's got a terminal only Debian nistall
29:44 <Ampera> Nothing\, the thing is that you can define the world in whatever terms you want. You can only agree with people so much.
30:14 <Ampera> Any generic Windows box, pretty much, is a computer. I can write whatever software I want, and it'll do pretty much anything I ask it to.
30:53 <Ampera> Perhaps a better distinction, which I did use, is "Personal Computer", implying a computer intended for personal applications.
30:53 <Ysjoelfir> what are you discussing about
30:54 <Ysjoelfir> tell me
30:58 <Ysjoelfir> I am nosy
31:23 <rust1> Ysjoelfir we DONT KNOW!!!
31:25 <Ampera> Ysjoelfir, are consoles computers, are computers different than consoles, what is and is not a computer, must a computer be programmable by the end user to practically count as a computer
31:42 <Ysjoelfir> yes
31:44 <Ampera> Like, I think it's the difference between a train and a car.
31:54 <Ampera> They're both motor vehicles, one is application specific.
32:08 <Ampera> You can't take the train absolutely anywhere, but with a car you more or less can, within the bounds of physics.
32:41 <DHess_US> https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy6mlg1V2wLIGaF-rsVre1mHnt9lT3Ptj-WQI9fPO5JP_Z89qrdxZDcHuuvuCCUGUsUGNJwUWHdwL78r17vpdNNzMB28NSLgA7z7lih3CaO-2RtgSXQsVtF1gO8tyt6YLf5pbSo8hhEvazFZvoyfgxwH_K8axLn7D4fTDmc_2qMeFvVCVVGUV_Zvhw/w225-h400/daily_gifdump_4101_25.gif
32:44 <Ampera> So is a train a car? I suppose, they call them train cars. However, there's an important distinction that must be made for general purposes.
33:06 <Ampera> I suppose it's like turing complete in theory, and turing complete in practice.
35:11 <Nothing\> argh wtf
36:04 <Nothing\> trying to find at least a 5w IR LED module but without much luck.
36:24 <Nothing\> this one has a list of different wattages, but you look at the list and they're all different voltages, not wattages.
37:00 <electrohead> !giphy a train is a car
37:01 <EEVBot> electrohead: https://media1.giphy.com/media/F2vgEy8fJUTqpKdP66/giphy.gif?cid=28c3c3c8b453317bec6ad971630fa1e200bdd22a971d1b27&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
37:11 <electrohead> uhh, ok
38:07 <electrohead> https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/20/world/perseverance-rover-string-debris-scn/index.html
38:07 <EEVBot> [url] NASA Perseverance rover: Bundle of string on Mars' surface found - CNN | amp.cnn.com
38:16 <electrohead> iT's aLieNs
38:27 <Nothing\> lol wtf
38:34 <Nothing\> i found a 200 watt IR LED module
38:38 <Nothing\> $180 :/
40:52 <Nothing\> I think 10W at ~$15 is reasonable
41:09 <Nothing\> electrohead, lol old news
41:21 <Nothing\> but yeha i saw that. It's laways alinens
41:25 <electrohead> :p
41:45 <Nothing\> i'm not saying it's always aliens
41:51 <Nothing\> but people are gullible
43:45 <Ysjoelfir> I wonder, how many topics have you guys jumped through in the last.... let me check
44:10 <rust1> 0.4 so far this week
44:12 <Ysjoelfir> roughly 3 hours
49:15 <electrohead> nein.
49:19 <Ysjoelfir> ok
49:23 <Ysjoelfir> warum nicht?
52:01 <electrohead> macht schnell! schnell!
52:29 <Ysjoelfir> ok, was denn?
53:26 <electrohead> mein sauerkraut!
53:32 * electrohead covers Nothing\ in it
53:54 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
54:04 <rust1> did you try some other cabbageness yet?
54:23 <electrohead> rust1: nah, not yet
54:28 * electrohead beers kuon
04:10 <electrohead> !giphy beer for the people
04:10 <EEVBot> electrohead: https://media4.giphy.com/media/h6SxmruLsgfCM/giphy.gif?cid=28c3c3c8943cf8a9548fe26eb2d89fa872ca8723de806a3c&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
04:29 <electrohead> welp, that wasn't disappointing
11:47 <Ysjoelfir> but wastefull
18:21 <electrohead> lol
18:24 <electrohead> and, hey Ysjoelfir
18:26 <electrohead> :p
26:17 <Ysjoelfir> hey me head
26:21 <Ysjoelfir> I am going to bed
26:25 <Ysjoelfir> have enjoys
29:53 * electrohead has all the enjoys
54:21 <Nothing\> hey guys, what would you recommend for an ESD safe workbench top-mat
54:42 <Nothing\> https://www.amazon.com/WORKLION-Healing-Cutting-Quilting-Scrapbooking/dp/B07MPB4GN4/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=workbench+mats&qid=1658433199&sr=8-5
54:42 <EEVBot> [url] Amazon.com : WORKLION 24" x 36" Large Self Healing PVC Cutting Mat, Double Sided, Gridded Rotary Cutting Board for Craft, Fabric, Quilting, Sewing, Scrapbooking - Art Project… : Arts, Crafts & Sewing | www.amazon.com
54:49 <Nothing\> like that, only not overpriced
04:05 <rust1> esd safe means overpriced, if you compare to a cutting mat
05:37 <electrohead> can it be grounded?
05:48 <electrohead> (didn't look at the link, back and forth between here and foods)
06:32 <rust1> pvc cutting mat. it is probably not very conductive?
07:17 * electrohead adds metal
08:21 <rust1> what does your bot thing say about metal mats?
16:40 <electrohead> !giphy metal mats
16:41 <EEVBot> electrohead: https://media4.giphy.com/media/xUA7b6iw1mXJq6Z3sQ/giphy.gif?cid=28c3c3c81dea2f81f45d3f042db78d718bcd5560956476f7&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
16:52 <electrohead> well now.
16:55 <electrohead> that, apparently
16:57 <electrohead> lol
16:57 Join: rust_collector ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
46:50 <T3sl4> starting to sound like ukraine over here
47:22 <Onus> Fireworks?
47:24 <T3sl4> not really, but just to say, the blue angels are in town, so the skies have been rather noisy here by the airport
47:29 <Onus> Or white phosphorus?
47:33 <Onus> Ah I see.
50:32 <Ampera> The sounds of innocent civilians being brutally raped, pillaged, and murdered by Russian soldiers, no doubt.
51:01 <T3sl4> not so much here, but the next county over or so, yeah
51:11 <T3sl4> sen ron johnson is pretty big on russia
51:28 <Ampera> ron swanson?
51:32 <T3sl4> rural counties voted for him hard
51:43 <T3sl4> Ampera: bacon your pardon.
51:51 <Ampera> oh I know how much you hate rural types, like farmers and truckers.
52:05 <T3sl4> hm?
52:19 <Ampera> trying to poke shit obv
52:20 <Ampera> :P
52:27 <Ampera> you're supposed to get all upset and angry or something
52:33 <T3sl4> oh uh
52:34 <Ampera> idk, my how to be a cunt manual must be out of date
52:49 <T3sl4> Ampera, you're such a cunty cunt
52:59 <Ampera> being a douchebag's all evolved in the past years, what with it all becoming web 3 and crypto
53:18 * Ampera makes a T3sl4 NFT
53:23 <Ampera> I now "own" you
53:24 * T3sl4 funges it
53:25 <Ampera> yoooooo
53:33 <Ampera> what if we made NFTs of actual people
53:37 <Ampera> now you OWN that person
53:43 <T3sl4> wait wait
53:45 <Ampera> you have a cryptographic record PROVING you own them
53:48 <T3sl4> some might not like that
53:52 <T3sl4> what if we make NFTs of black ppl
54:04 <Ampera> obv the issue with slavery was the racism.
54:20 <Ampera> make NFTs of everyone
55:28 <Ampera> idk, part of me wonders if that's the 4chan-grade shitpost that's could actually tank whatever NFT's don't have left
55:35 <T3sl4> i... wait, did musky already NFT himself? you may be onto something there
55:38 <Ampera> *whatever reputation
01:39 Join: Choice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:13 Quit: Onus ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
09:10 Nick: Choice is now known as Breathe
10:00 Quit: modrobert ([email protected]) Quit: Lost terminal
36:06 * arch sells T3sl4 as a NFT
55:11 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
57:45 Join: Halcyon__ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
57:49 * Halcyon__ pokes electrohead 
02:23 <Halcyon__> He must have fallen asleep on the couch again :P
06:55 * Ampera kisses Halcyon_
06:57 <Ampera> <3 <3 <3
07:00 <Ampera> or Halcyon__
07:07 <Ampera> fuckin multi client lookin ass ass
07:08 <Halcyon__> Hello Ampera
07:10 <Halcyon__> *cuddles*
07:15 <Ampera> hello Halcyon__, how are you doing
07:18 <Halcyon__> I'm on the train
07:30 <Halcyon__> I'll get around to a BNC one day
07:36 <Ampera> or just use mine
07:46 <Halcyon__> They are starting to install my fibre today \o/
07:50 <Ampera> all nice and set up with working TLS :P
08:02 <Ampera> if you want it I'll even set up client cert auth, which I've been meaning to do anyways
09:13 * electrohead pokes Halcyon__ back from the couch
09:24 Quit: kuon ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:35 * Ampera crashes an Impreza into electrohead's couch
09:56 * electrohead pushes it away
10:03 <Halcyon__> I'll consider it Ampera. I did want a go of setting it up myself, like the good old days
10:44 <Halcyon__> electrohead, you package is on the plane. \o/ Now just the get it past USPS :P
10:58 <electrohead> wooo \o/
11:04 <Ampera> I like USPS
11:09 <Ampera> I think they're the best couriers in the nation
11:14 <electrohead> yeah USPS is quite nice
11:21 <Ampera> fastest, cheapest, best service
11:32 <Ampera> you typically know when they show up
11:38 <Halcyon__> They apparently don't like transporting alcohol. So I listed electrohead's package contents as "Carbonated beverages"
11:49 <electrohead> heh
11:56 <electrohead> technically that's true :p
12:03 <Halcyon__> Exactly, not a lie
13:14 <Ampera> Neighbor and I are planning on doing a cajun boil soon-ish
13:48 <Halcyon__> That sounds like something you should see a dermatologist for
14:05 Join: modrobert ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
14:13 <Ampera> no, but it is one of the least halal foods you can eat
14:23 <Halcyon__> You had me at food
14:29 <Ampera> I said cajun boil
15:01 <Ampera> shrimp, scallops, clams, crawfish, sausage, corn, spices
15:11 <Halcyon__> Sounds good to me
15:32 <Ampera> My neighbor used to live in New Orleans, so he'll enlighten me as to the proper technique
15:49 <Halcyon__> Take pics when you make it
19:00 <Halcyon__> Anyway, I better go, my stop is coming up soon. Have a nice day/night everyone.
19:04 * Halcyon__ kisses Ampera
19:14 * electrohead shows Halcyon__ his sausage on the way out
23:06 Quit: Halcyon__ ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
39:16 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
23:31 <jaymax> \o_
24:54 Quit: kuon ([email protected]) Connection closed
25:04 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
28:20 <electrohead> o/
29:03 <steve30> \o
32:36 <jaymax> \o/
34:01 * jaymax forgot all about the fruit picked last night
35:32 <jaymax> Had a disgusting disruption in brain function today; the fruit would've fixed it faster but was so far gone I suffered extra hours before realizing.
35:46 <jaymax> Heat waves are turrible.
53:03 <steve30> i think i'll go out on the bike
31:29 Join: arch ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:42 <T3sl4> meow https://imgur.com/gallery/cRbuyuF
00:42 <EEVBot> [url] Me. Luther Adventurefoot has a signature pose. - Album on Imgur | imgur.com
07:59 Quit: Nothing\ ([email protected]) EOF from client
40:32 * steve30 needs food
53:44 Quit: arch ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
59:00 Join: Zsjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
01:31 <Zsjoelfir> mornings
01:39 <steve30> hi
01:54 Quit: Zsjoelfir ([email protected]) Changing hosts
01:54 Join: Zsjoelfir ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
02:33 <Zsjoelfir> ok, cool, seems like someone removed the op from my 2nd nick? :D
02:41 * Zsjoelfir is not worthy
02:56 Mode: (by steve30) +o Zsjoelfir
03:00 <Zsjoelfir> lol^^
03:10 * Zsjoelfir hugs steve30
03:22 <steve30> *purr*
10:59 <Zsjoelfir> ouch. I just poked my still soft after-shower-skin with my ear piercing thing. <_< that freakin' hurted a lot more than I would have anticipated o.o
51:57 Join: Halcyon__ ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
52:01 * Halcyon__ hugs the room
53:25 * Zsjoelfir rooms Halcyon__
55:33 <Halcyon__> \o/
55:38 <Halcyon__> How are you my friend?
58:58 <Zsjoelfir> I am super awesome* and you?
59:28 <Halcyon__> Good now that it's Friday afternoon and I'm on my way home from work
59:30 <Halcyon__> Weeeeee
59:40 <Zsjoelfir> nice!
59:47 <Halcyon__> I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Did your ex sign that thing?
00:09 <Zsjoelfir> I would be even more awesome if the misses would be at my side right now, but she will be here this evening, so that is fine.
00:24 <Zsjoelfir> And no, she did not. she is still bitchign around like crazy, but I got tht covered
00:57 <Zsjoelfir> like... I don't give a fuck. I talked to a lawyer and if she really tries to fuck me over... well, I will do that with her. as she ows me way more than I do her
01:01 <Zsjoelfir> (technically
01:03 <Zsjoelfir> )
01:23 <Halcyon__> I hope that doesn't drag on too long
01:29 <Halcyon__> Better to have it all done and dusted
03:32 <Zsjoelfir> yep I will go there on 6th of august (together with the misses) and talk to her. I am waaay stronger now than I was before, so....
03:51 <Halcyon__> Awesome *cuddles*
05:04 <Zsjoelfir> yeah. thanks :) I fel very confident and like I can achieve anything nowadays. This girl... ok, those two girls really brought up my self esteem again
05:36 <Halcyon__> It's amazing what positive energy around you can do
06:59 <Zsjoelfir> I know, right? I always wondered how I became this wreck that I have been for the last years
07:28 <Halcyon__> Negative people and influences can drag you down, sometimes it takes many years
07:34 <Halcyon__> And you don't realise.
10:14 <Zsjoelfir> exactly that happened
12:43 <Halcyon__> Yup. I've been there my self
12:46 <Halcyon__> My ex was a cunt
13:50 <Zsjoelfir> oh, you never told me?
14:10 <Halcyon__> That he was a cunt? Yeh, big time
15:42 <Halcyon__> Emotionally manipulative
19:36 <Halcyon__> Anyway I'm getting off the train soon, I'll be back online later. Hopefully talk soon Zsjoelfir
19:44 Quit: Halcyon__ ([email protected]) EOF from client
45:56 <Zsjoelfir> tahts eww. But still, enjoy offtraining! and after that, one might enjoy this https://deezer.page.link/aPSJEw5RWHHJpBhY6
46:00 <EEVBot> [url] Bo Burnham - 1985: listen with lyrics | Deezer | deezer.page.link
39:27 <Zsjoelfir> soooo....
39:34 * Zsjoelfir throws a potet at K
11:32 <Zsjoelfir> Now I want to use docker, just because of this insanely cool logo. I have no idea what docker actually does, but this logo is just so nice
36:43 <K> hello beagles
38:35 Nick: Halcyon_ is now known as Halcyon
38:37 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Quit: Leaving
38:54 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
39:00 * Halcyon docks Zsjoelfir 
39:28 <Halcyon> I have a shiny new fibre pit outside my house now! YAY!
39:29 <K> Hucklberyon
39:55 <K> what is a "fibre pit" ?
41:07 <Halcyon> Oh so where I live, all the cabling in my street is above ground (pole to pole) including comms
42:06 <Zsjoelfir> hey K and Halcyon
42:08 <Halcyon> But because they don't string fibre up on poles, they've had to dig a trench across peoples front yards just for me. The trench ends at a pit (which is a box in the ground with a concrete cover) which then has another conduit coming out of it straight into my house
42:35 <K> ah.
42:40 <Zsjoelfir> your neighbors will be super happy Halcyon xD
42:58 <K> why cant they put it on poles though, if those are already there
42:59 <Halcyon> I got a message from the old lady next door this morning wondering what was going on :P
43:16 <K> not like it would be a threato mess electricity up
43:20 <Halcyon> Because that's the lazy way of doing it and it's not protected properly from the elements like rain and wind
43:26 <K> ah.
43:39 <K> uv-rated optics cable is more expensive
43:48 <K> makes sense
43:52 <Halcyon> It's all UV rated, but they just don't install it above ground
44:15 <Halcyon> And I agree, it would be silly to. They would be chasing broken fibres every time the winds pick up
44:20 <Zsjoelfir> don't they inform old ladies from next door before digging up her lawn?
44:25 <Halcyon> I guess not?
44:34 <Zsjoelfir> lol
44:37 <Zsjoelfir> "nice"
44:37 <Halcyon> But technically they can do whatever they want. It's public property.
44:43 <Zsjoelfir> I would be pissed
44:45 <Zsjoelfir> oh is it?
44:47 <Halcyon> The first few metres from the road anyway
44:49 <Halcyon> Yeh
44:57 <Zsjoelfir> if someone digs up MY lawn, how is that public?
45:04 <Halcyon> It's where the footpath would be (if we had a footpath)
45:11 <Zsjoelfir> aaaaah
45:18 <Zsjoelfir> ok, than I didn't say anything
45:26 <Halcyon> ;)
46:11 <Halcyon> But I'm excited. Hopefully I get the fibre in the next week or two
46:14 <Zsjoelfir> so, my fellow software friends..... I am here to annoy you with a question again
46:26 <Zsjoelfir> I will install fiber for my mum in 3 weeks, too :D
46:32 <Zsjoelfir> (which was not said question)
48:33 <K> (confused animal noises) how is fibre "software"?
50:20 <Zsjoelfir> it isnt. xD my question was more like.... I am searching for a place in code where some registers are set/unset. but it seems like the documentation of the code of this product is as bad as the hardware documentation...
50:31 <Halcyon> Well it makes your stool soft so... ?
50:39 <Zsjoelfir> I have a bitbucket directory with ALL the codes and have no idea how to start
54:07 <K> registers for what? cpu or device?
54:25 <Zsjoelfir> for one of the ICs
55:33 <K> i'd see the datasheet of device, look at some register names and try to look up those
57:37 <Zsjoelfir> I did that, using the search function of bitbucket
57:57 <Zsjoelfir> only thing I found was some definition of the registers in some "codec" folder os a bigger folder called some version of linux
58:18 <K> pff
59:07 <K> do you have the source code for software for this device, or you just want to see how it is used somewhwere, in general
59:45 <Zsjoelfir> tbh:
59:49 <Zsjoelfir> I am not sure what I have here
59:58 <Zsjoelfir> I asked the programming guys for the software of this device
00:04 <Zsjoelfir> they provided me with the bitbucket link
00:21 <Zsjoelfir> but nowhere in this thing is something that is capable to run linux, sooooooo..... I dunno
03:26 <K> can you share the link?
03:31 <K> or is it proprieteary
04:33 <Zsjoelfir> I sadly can't, I already asked :(
04:47 <Zsjoelfir> and our software guys are too busy to help
08:51 <K> is the device running linux ?
09:50 <Zsjoelfir> I have no idea. it only has a small ARM that is probably not fast enough for a whole Debian to run I assume, and several 8/16 bit micros of various kinds. this thing is a mess
13:59 <K> proper, non-mcu arm prolly can run some sort of linux, kinda makes sense, esp. if networking is involved
14:18 <Zsjoelfir> it is
14:22 <K> what is the name of ic?
14:26 <Zsjoelfir> the arm in question is a...... what was that....
14:51 <K> maybe there is a kernel module for it and something can be looked at there
15:43 <Zsjoelfir> its an AT91RM9200, so an ARM920T
16:29 <Zsjoelfir> it has a whopping 512MB od SDRAM at its side, and 128MBit flash. thats all in terms of memory. sounds to my non-software eye like a bit less?
29:25 <K> that is alot of memory
30:18 <Zsjoelfir> ....is it? o.o
30:35 * Zsjoelfir has no clue about linuxes and stuff
37:49 <K> 512MB is plenty for embedded linux
38:24 <Zsjoelfir> but thats only SDRAM, so volatile memory
38:43 <Zsjoelfir> it has only the 128MB of non volatile flash
38:53 <Zsjoelfir> no other storage anywhere
59:49 <K> 128MB is enough for loading kernel and some crap
09:09 * T3sl4 presses the big red "ARM" button on Zsjoelfir
09:20 * Zsjoelfir is armed
09:24 <Zsjoelfir> erm
09:26 <Zsjoelfir> *ARMed
09:53 <T3sl4> Halcyon: https://i.imgur.com/H9hkk3l.png
10:00 <Zsjoelfir> so.... ok, than it probably runs some linux. good to know :D I have no idea in that region...
10:08 <T3sl4> or, with title https://imgur.com/gallery/H9hkk3l
10:08 <EEVBot> [url] Hot chick with Big Jugs for IMGUR! - Imgur | imgur.com
17:54 <K> do you want to see register manipulations for that arm cpu or for some external ic ?
18:13 * T3sl4 manipulates K some potatoes
18:30 <K> questionable touching!
19:27 <Zsjoelfir> K - you mean if I am searcing in the sourcecode something like "ARM! tell Audio Codec to change Register X to Value G!"? Yes, I was hoping to find that.
20:58 <K> that will be called from application level code, which will, via a library or two, boil down to linux kernel syscall, which will go down to kernel module responsible for that device
21:07 <K> hence me asking for codec IC make/model
39:05 <Zsjoelfir> its a Cirrus Logic WM8983
50:58 Quit: Bird|ghosted ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
56:16 Join: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
59:02 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/LKcX08v.png
12:14 * Ampera throws a Cirrus Logic VLB card at Zsjoelfir 
29:14 Quit: Breathe ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
30:39 Join: Breathe ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
54:13 Quit: Zsjoelfir ([email protected]) Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)
00:59 Quit: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
05:57 Join: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
38:00 <K> zs: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/soc/codecs/wm8983.c
38:00 <EEVBot> [GitHub] [torvalds/linux] sound/soc/codecs/wm8983.c @ master
38:05 <K> ah, he left
42:57 * electrohead waves
43:06 * electrohead stabs Ampera
43:14 * electrohead makes K film
46:13 * K cameras electrohead
48:27 Quit: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
50:36 <electrohead> fun times
54:18 Join: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
03:02 * Ampera hugs electrohead 
03:05 <Ampera> how are you doing friend?
09:01 Quit: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) Connection closed
09:12 Join: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
14:18 <electrohead> hey dude ~
14:26 <electrohead> good, I have friends coming by later on
14:31 <electrohead> so, the cleaning process starts, lol
21:42 <Ampera> electrohead, I've got a great way to make that easier
21:49 <Ampera> Simply have no real life friends
21:54 <Ampera> I never have to clean anything!
23:21 <Breathe> Lmao
26:39 <Ampera> hello Breathe, how's the respiration today?
26:49 <Ampera> combined with adequate perspiration I presume?
26:50 <Breathe> It's uh
26:52 <Breathe> It's going
27:00 <Ampera> That's fresh.
27:06 <Breathe> And of course, I need to keep that electrolyte balance
27:20 <Ampera> Of course, your weight in Brawndo.
27:25 <Breathe> Hahahaha
27:31 <Breathe> That reference.
27:34 <Ampera> :D
27:43 <Breathe> How's things, amp?
27:45 <Ampera> I'm cool, I'm hip, I'm the captain of a sailing ship.
28:03 <Breathe> Speaking of a sailing ship, I briefly considered playing that pirate game
28:12 <Breathe> That all the kids are playing, earlier today
28:18 <Breathe> But then I realised I have no crew
28:28 <Ampera> Things are okay. Currently doing misc sysadmin nonsense, contemplating doing different nonsense, and listening to power metal
28:56 <Breathe> I'm past the metal stage and into the slightly depressing melodic
29:14 <Breathe> What kind of different nonsense?
29:26 <Breathe> I'm also contemplating different nonsense, but
29:31 <Breathe> As a hobby thing at first.
30:06 <Ampera> Well, my personal servers run FreeBSD, and I don't have a good way of maintaining all my jails.
30:21 <Ampera> The only way I can update them all takes several hours because this is sort of a poorly solved problem in FreeBSD itself.
30:48 <Breathe> Is it? I only use it with pf
30:49 <Ampera> So my current plan is to script updating jail installs using compiled source, which is easier than using the binaries somehow.
30:58 <Breathe> I am not very experienced with the OS itself.
31:03 <Breathe> Or it's internals.
31:22 <Ampera> FreeBSD is my favorite operating system. Its jails system is top notch. Its release strategy is genius. It just does NOT have a good base system update tool.
31:35 <Breathe> I mean look between-
31:37 <Breathe> Well okay.
31:39 <Ampera> The main difference between FreeBSD and Linux is that the base system is separate from package management.
31:44 <Breathe> On linux what would you use?
32:04 <Ampera> On Linux I would use the package manager. On FreeBSD, the package manager is considered an optional component, and actually isn't even shipped with base installed.
32:20 <Breathe> You say jails, you mean chroot jails?
32:21 <Breathe> Or what
32:40 <Breathe> I mean you have a lot of seg options on nix
32:41 <Ampera> I mean FreeBSD jails. They basically invented the concept that chroot jails could be more than what they already were.
32:51 <Breathe> Okay.
33:00 <Breathe> I mean between things like firejail and apparmour
33:10 <Ampera> I'm not aware of which alternative is the most similar on Linux, because I have never used kernel level virtualization on Linux
33:26 <Ampera> To describe what they can do:
33:57 <Ampera> You have near complete granular control over what parts of the machine a jail has access to. It can be just as powerful as the root machine, or only capable of running a single program with the bare minimum of userland.
34:39 <Breathe> I'd really need to read more about it, because it sounds a lot like firejail, and firejail's basically a flaming shitheap huge SUID
34:42 <Breathe> lmfao
34:46 <Ampera> You can pick between either sharing the same NIC with the host, but using a different IP and some pf rules, or a completely virtualized network stack with virtual switches and ethernet cables.
35:01 <Breathe> Yes, same functionality, it may be implemented differently.
35:29 <Breathe> On BSD.
35:49 <Breathe> But, firejail's generally frowned upon due to attack surface.
36:12 <Breathe> Frankly, I think, if you get popped and you're using it, you kind of probably asked for it in the first place.
36:18 <Ampera> FreeBSD's jails are revered for their security and the intense granularity with which you can isolate a single jail.
36:47 <Ampera> I've never used firejail, but FreeBSD jails are about as old as I am, and are an unavoidable staple in secure, responsible FreeBSD admin
37:05 <Breathe> Well, I can't argue with that.
37:17 <Ampera> The whole point is that it's more secure than a single userland with multiple services, so just being separate at all is already an improvement.
37:32 <Ampera> but yeah, as I said, a tool is only as good as the hand that wields it.
37:51 <Breathe> Well we can get into the whole misconfiguration thing.
37:56 * electrohead offers coffee
38:19 <Breathe> I had to walk a guy through why he fucked up and how he did and how to avoid it in future a little earlier tonight with a cloud service.
38:21 * jaymax graps the whole ting
38:26 <Breathe> People make mistakes.
38:29 <Breathe> That's okay.
38:38 <Breathe> He learned from the experience, I am sure.
38:55 <Breathe> But, tangent.
38:57 <Ampera> The way I see security is that everyone unavoidably mistakes regardless of what they set up.
39:04 <Ampera> The only difference is how hard it is to exploit that mistake.
39:12 <Ampera> Or even be aware of it
39:17 * electrohead exploits Ampera
39:29 <Breathe> Anyway, I need to learn more about BSD before I start commenting on whether it's suitability in whatever circumstance
39:37 <Breathe> I'd be an idiot to argue the point currently.
39:48 <Ampera> It is worth knowing FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD are completely different operating systems.
39:55 <Ampera> They're not like linux distros, they're actually seriously different.
40:01 * jaymax drops out of electrohead's container
40:26 <Breathe> No, I know the kernel is different
40:33 <Ampera> Originally I was using bhyve for my services in FreeBSD. bhyve is an EXCELLENT hypervisor, I honestly believe the best in the world for individual users.
40:38 <Breathe> So, fine, but I don't know enough about the internals
40:41 <Breathe> On any of them
40:42 <Ampera> It's just that you run into the overallocation problem with VMs pretty fast.
40:45 <Breathe> To make real comments.
40:56 <Ampera> Sure, it's why I'm chatting about it.
40:59 <Breathe> Ye
41:58 <Ampera> FreeBSD is the most Linux-like, I'd say. If you know how to use debian or arch, you'd probably pick it up pretty fast
42:05 <Ampera> but the philosophies are still very different.
42:11 <Breathe> Yeah I used arch for a while.
42:21 <Ampera> The kernels are similar to Linux, but with different strategies for different things.
42:36 <Ampera> There are no LTS variants, but the release cycle is a lot longer.
42:39 <Breathe> Well, I haven't done serious upkeep on the box honestly.
42:44 <Breathe> So.
42:54 <Ampera> arch is my daily driver, as it has the fewest obstacles to a complete desktop experience the way I want it
42:57 <Breathe> It's just not a very common thing, I probably should
43:02 <Ampera> Debian is otherwise my choice in Linux.
43:10 <Breathe> Debian's nice too.
43:23 <Breathe> Or, it's fine.
43:31 <Breathe> Would probably be what I'd say.
43:36 <Ampera> I'm not a fan of Debian making certain decisions for me, and how hard it is to install software not in the central repos.
43:42 <Ampera> The AUR is probably 50% of why I use arch.
43:47 <Breathe> Really?
44:01 <Breathe> The aur is
44:06 <Ampera> Absolutely. It's great to simply have what I need when I need it, configured for my system.
44:06 <Breathe> A bit suspect, really.
44:10 <Ampera> I'm aware of the security implications.
44:27 <electrohead> arch linux ftw
44:28 <Breathe> Well, then, more power to you.
44:38 <Breathe> hey electrohead.
44:43 <Breathe> I saw the page, finally.
44:49 <Breathe> Probably like six hours ago.
44:53 <electrohead> which one?
44:58 <Breathe> Hellnet
45:00 <Ampera> I've gotten better in the past with caring about my personal security. If I was particularly concerned, I would read the build scripts and determine where it's sourcing that software.
45:02 <Breathe> Cool projects man.
45:33 <Breathe> Ampera, it's very easy to get caught.
45:44 <electrohead> ahh
45:57 <Breathe> Well, I did tell you I'd read it, and do it sober
45:59 <Breathe> And so I did.
46:09 <Breathe> And it was mostly python.
46:15 <Ampera> That's what I'm relying on, but relying on some random person to hopefully figure it out before it hurts me is not a great strategy.
46:16 <Breathe> But, I did read through.
46:53 <Ampera> That being said, I only really use arch on client machines, so the impacted party is more or less just myself.
46:54 <Breathe> Ampera, usually not, yeah.
47:07 <Breathe> Well, just the aur, really
47:23 <Breathe> I mean would you download and run shit auto from mega?
47:25 <Ampera> FreeBSD is my go-to server operating system, as is Debian, where packages can be more trusted.
47:28 <Breathe> Probably not
47:42 <Ampera> Well, that /is/ the near inescapable Windows security model.
47:49 <Ampera> Just download shit unverified and hope
48:01 <Breathe> Windows what, because
48:04 <electrohead> https://twitter.com/sonicmega/status/1549651495997476864
48:05 <EEVBot> [Twitter] Sean Chiplock (@sonicmega): All the people who laughed off the “worrywarts” years ago for freaking out about the Funny Dancing Robot Dogs (tm) should be forced to watch this video once a day for the remainder of the year. https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1549651415739469829/pu/vid/1280x720/-k1Mts5Im6EMw0nQ.mp4?tag=12 | 26294 RTs | 114235 ♥s | Posted: 2022-07-20 - 03:04:42EDT
48:05 <Breathe> We can talk about windows.
48:09 <Breathe> I'm okay with that.
48:55 <Breathe> I think 11 is currently a steaming pile of shit with a heap of issues and a lot of them are turning out to be cred/token verif or auth issues.
49:13 <Breathe> 10 is okay, if it's configured properly.
49:21 <Ampera> I recently bought a Surface Pro 8 with it on it. I would never want to daily drive it, but it does the things I want it to.
49:46 <Breathe> BRUH
49:51 <Ampera> I think Windows is a great shame. There are so many excellent programmers and brilliant ideas, implemented really well, that's ruined by the package as a whole.
49:55 <Breathe> electrohead, dude I want one so bad
50:01 <Breathe> Not the gun dog, just the dog
50:17 <Breathe> I looked into the libraries and I can make it take my trash out if I work hard enough.
50:33 <electrohead> the dog is cool, but I wouldn't want to fuck with a gun dog
50:35 <electrohead> heh
50:40 <Breathe> Kek
50:51 <Breathe> Yes but the little tippy taps, they're both horrifying and cute.
51:16 <Breathe> I'd like that to be the sound enemy combatants dread in the future.
51:20 <Breathe> Tippy taps.
51:23 <Ampera> That dog is my idea of home security.
51:36 <Ampera> If I can't feel safe in my home, then nobody else can.
51:55 <Breathe> Well, it'd be an automated system, so
51:56 <Breathe> illegal
51:59 <Breathe> Unfortunately.
52:02 <Breathe> Are you in the US?
52:08 <Ampera> No, I'm in NY
52:17 <Breathe> Oh, so they'd just crucify you
52:20 <Breathe> Fair enough
52:24 <Ampera> Yes.
52:31 <Ampera> I have two things on my side, though
52:37 <Ampera> 1. They'd have to get past my robot gun dog.
52:44 <Breathe> Hahahahaha
52:45 <Ampera> 2. Our roads are so bad their suspensions would explode trying to get to my house
52:52 <Breathe> Well
52:59 Quit: Bird|otherbox ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
53:02 <Breathe> I mean you have one thing WITH you
53:13 <Breathe> And that's of course, when the ATF tried to shoot your dog
53:16 <Breathe> It shoots back
53:17 <Ampera> American society of civil engineers gave us a D+ grade on our roads.
53:19 <Ampera> hahahaha
53:21 <Ampera> hahahahahahaha
53:42 <Ampera> man, if you marketed it like that, half of Texas would buy one.
53:55 <Ampera> imagine waco but with an army of robot gun dogs.
59:03 <Breathe> Hahahahaha
59:14 <Breathe> Sorry, I was smoking, Ampera
59:19 <Breathe> But of course they would.
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