// #d&d — 2014-03-13
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00:00:25 Yiroep ([email protected]) has joined #d&d
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07:25:24 <Avatar> Ulzef
07:25:38 <Mekkis> Avatar
07:25:40 <Avatar> you've been a bit MIA
07:25:43 <Avatar> mek
07:26:16 <Mekkis> so. More Hard Mode scenarios. I can't see how this is good for PFS
07:26:26 <Avatar> it's fine if there's a normal mode
07:26:50 <Avatar> I would love to discuss this but I am super crazy late for work
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07:34:25 <Yiroep> Why is it not good for PFS? It's optional.
07:35:05 <Yiroep> Although I won't deny I wasn't a fan of Waking Rune normal mode.
07:35:18 <Yiroep> I feel Weapon in the Rift got it right, though.
07:39:12 <Mekkis> Yiroep, because one of the worst things that can happen is power-level disparity on the same table
07:39:25 <Mekkis> now we're giving people an excuse to powergame their characters.
07:39:41 <Mekkis> (as if they needed one in the first place)
07:41:40 <Yiroep> I've thought about that, but I have noticed people do it anyway even before Waking Rune came out.
07:41:58 <Mekkis> sure they do. But this just encourages it more.
07:43:22 <Yiroep> I guess. I don't see many people locally playing hard modes, though.
07:43:34 <Yiroep> The ones who do play hard modes are power gaming already.
07:44:23 <Mekkis> how do you GM a table when half the party is powergamed to the hilt "so we can play in hardmode" and half the party isn't.
07:44:46 <Mekkis> In a scenario where hard mode isn't offered, while still providing challenge and interest to all the players?
07:45:36 <Yiroep> What you're arguing is that hard mode is encouraging people to build like that. My argument isn't on the basis that situations like this don't happen. It's that situations like that would happen anyway.
07:46:25 <Mekkis> sure, but I used to be able to rebuff them and say "that amount of powergaming is not required for PFS, could you consider toning it down a bit"
07:46:27 <Yiroep> It has nothing to do with table disparity itself as much as "is it encouraging more disparity"?
07:46:53 <Mekkis> now they can respond "but I want to play scenarios on hard mode, so no"
07:47:02 <Yiroep> Valid point.
07:47:34 <Yiroep> I just feel it's an excuse for someone who does that kind of thing already, not a motivator.
07:49:02 <Mekkis> regardless, I don't think it should be encouraged at all
07:49:26 <Yiroep> How do you feel about Bonekeep, then?
07:49:31 <Yiroep> Same thing?
07:49:44 <Mekkis> worse actually
07:50:29 <Mekkis> they've replaced the season exclusive with a scenario that at least half of the community will not play
07:50:35 <Mekkis> good job, paizo
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07:53:23 <Yiroep> I had mixed feelings about the exclusive part as well.
07:55:54 <Mekkis> replacing the exclusive?
07:55:59 <Yiroep> Yeah.
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07:56:42 <Mekkis> this is my first season as a four star GM, and I was expecting some exclusive to run
07:56:56 <Mekkis> instead, I get bonekeep, which I've had for about 10 months
07:57:11 <Mekkis> have run once, and find it all-in-all to be a grind
07:58:38 <Yiroep> Locally last year, we had an entire event of doing Day of the Demon, multiple tables, for one day. That was a lot of fun.
07:58:50 <Yiroep> Even more fun because everyone playing had not GMed it or read it before because they couldn't.
07:59:28 <Mekkis> there's no culture of "don't read the scenario before playing it. Under any circumstance"?
07:59:57 <Yiroep> I raise an eyebrow to some people...let me put it that way.
08:00:19 <Yiroep> Of course, I don't even read the blurbs for the scenario. I usually just know the title of the scenario I'm playing (Unless I've GMed it, of course, or prepared to GM it).
08:00:40 <Mekkis> if you've read the scenario before, you're not welcome at my table.
08:00:56 <Mekkis> I personally don't care if you're replaying for no credit, or using a GM star, or whatever.
08:01:30 <Yiroep> So someone who has GMed it but not gotten player credit is not welcome at your table?
08:02:16 <Mekkis> correct. Looking at the five worst tables I've ran, four of them had someone at it who was playing the scenario after reading it.
08:02:42 <Yiroep> Hrm, that's disappointing.
08:03:20 <Mekkis> two or three of them had a massive power-level disparity
08:03:39 <Yiroep> Well, I will keep that noted. I sometimes GM things before I play them because I GM often.
08:04:10 <Mekkis> I've GMed a few scenarios without playing them
08:04:13 <Yiroep> The most disappointing was when I read Elven Entanglement and didn't even get to GM it because low level players showed up and I played at their table to make a table instead of GMing a second table of Elven Entanglement.
08:04:17 <Mekkis> about five scenarios
08:04:35 <Mekkis> I will never play them.
08:09:17 <Mekkis> fyi: Guide 2.01 said:
08:09:33 <Mekkis> A GM can never play in a scenario as an official character
08:09:33 <Mekkis> once she has run it, so the GM will need to find someone
08:09:33 <Mekkis> else to run the scenario for her. The GM who runs the slot
08:09:33 <Mekkis> 0 can also never play through the scenario as an official
08:09:33 <Mekkis> character, unless she’s had someone else run it for her.
08:11:12 <Yiroep> Yes, but it is changed.
08:11:52 <Mekkis> I know the rules have.
08:12:14 <Mekkis> My sentiment hasn't. And every time I've allowed it, I've been disappointed
08:14:50 <Yiroep> Well, I'm playing Elven Entanglement this weekend. I know what character would be awesome in it. I know that character would shine super brightly in it. But I'm gonna let the party decide which one I play, and base in on party balance. I will probably end up playing the character who will be...decent...at it, because he's a tank and it appears that's what the party needs.
08:14:57 <Yiroep> I know everyone won't do that though, so I can understand it.
08:15:52 <Yiroep> Funny enough, he's my crane style character! Lol!!!!!!
08:16:07 <Yiroep> I decided to keep the chain.
08:16:29 <Yiroep> He's so invested in it, though, because he's not a monk, so he had to take IUS and Dodge to get it.
08:17:02 <Yiroep> Along with taking Cautious Fighter.
08:20:42 <Yiroep> Besides, he's at 32 XP now anyway. Gonna be level 12 after a scenario.
08:28:48 <Yiroep> Although I will probably play my bard, actually. I want to get him to 12 for Ruby Phoenix. It depends on if the scenario before that I play my bard or not.
08:28:57 <Yiroep> Anyway, I'm rambling now.
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17:12:36 <Steven> yo sup
17:32:50 <Avatar> yo
17:38:37 <Steven> how goes it mandingo?
17:49:08 <Avatar> s'all good
17:49:17 <Steven> kickass
17:52:36 <Avatar> Mekkis: I played citadel of flame after I GM'd it, that was still enormous fun
17:52:58 <Avatar> same with tide of twilight I think
17:53:17 <Steven> oh mans... i dont know how i feel about that avatar... you probably ruined the scenario for everyone
17:53:42 <Avatar> nah everyone loved it
17:53:45 <Steven> how dare you make them make decisions that effect the story line on your behalf!
17:54:13 <Avatar> everyone was all 'more! more!'
17:54:26 <Avatar> well they were probably thinking that, anyway
17:55:05 <Steven> i loved that sceanrio
17:55:30 <Steven> i got color sprayed like 3 times... twice by my own teammates
18:12:45 <Avatar> nice
18:12:50 <Avatar> cooperate
18:13:05 <Steven> yeah my character folnor hates color spray
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18:41:18 <Avatar> http://i.imgur.com/dGi72Yd.png
18:41:22 <Avatar> this really is a pretty amazing flowchart
18:41:40 <Avatar> it's kind of hard to explain combat well to a newbie, but that does it well
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19:52:16 <Mekkis> Avatar, that flowchart is missing some stuff
19:52:28 <Mekkis> (a 5' step is not a free action)
20:31:54 <Avatar> a 5' step is a free action
20:36:11 <Brunius> *conditions apply
20:41:26 <Mekkis> no it isn't Avatar
20:41:40 <Mekkis> a 5' step is a miscellaneous action
20:47:15 <Mekkis> you can perform it in the middle of other actions
20:55:03 <Avatar> much like free actions
20:58:03 <s_gmusic> sounds legit
21:04:33 <Mekkis> sure
21:05:05 <Mekkis> but p189 of the CRB states that it's not a free action
21:06:59 <Avatar> because it has restrictions
21:07:08 <Avatar> it is really just a free action
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21:33:30 <s_gmusic> I need a character build that can do random but effective things.
21:33:49 <s_gmusic> It will be dubbed the "Macguyver of Wanton Destruction"
21:33:59 <s_gmusic> derp. MacGyver
21:36:29 <Avatar> shit I don't think I've played tide of twilight yet
21:36:59 <Avatar> I must have
21:38:13 <s_gmusic> avatar, when do you normally schedule PFS events in here?
21:38:29 <Avatar> ah yes with my dead summoner
21:38:40 <Avatar> friday nights or saturday mornings/afternoons
21:38:47 <Avatar> in that order of likelihood
21:39:13 <Avatar> I'll run something next weekend
21:39:18 <s_gmusic> for frame of reference, what's the time/date there for you?
21:39:32 <Avatar> 10.39pm on thursday
21:39:38 <Avatar> are you americano
21:40:07 <Avatar> it's 11.39pm GMT now
21:40:13 <Avatar> er
21:40:18 <Avatar> 11.39am GMT even
21:40:44 <s_gmusic> yeah, just making sure I had my alternate clocks set correctly. on this computer, I have 3 set up for local, GMT, and *other*
21:41:01 <Avatar> I think you'll want a saturday-morning-for-me game
21:42:29 <s_gmusic> shouldn't be too much of a problem on my end, unless I run an event late at work. currently 6:42a thursday
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