// #eevblog — 2019-07-07
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00:15:20 Join: Guest|26321 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:16:15 <Guest|26321> hello i am a student and need some advice on a project could anyone help me?
00:17:55 Quit: Guest|26321 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
00:26:09 Quit: SnowCrab ([email protected]) Z-Lined
00:29:39 Join: Lord_of_nothing ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:29:45 <Lord_of_nothing> Hi
00:29:50 <rust_collector> hoi
00:30:05 <Lord_of_nothing> is anyone interested in a list off all hf acars station for sdr#?
00:30:15 <Lord_of_nothing> i did it for my own but if someone need it
00:31:07 <rust_collector> what is acars?
00:36:28 <Lord_of_nothing> its HF DL to.
00:40:12 <rust_collector> do you have anything that will make a really noisy ice cream truck explode?
00:52:38 Join: Guest|78212 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
00:52:55 Quit: Guest|78212 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
03:14:52 <*buffextras> ChanOP set mode: +o ThunderSqueak
05:20:50 <rust_collector> hmm, what a difference a few inches does
05:21:15 <rust_collector> I just had my thing extended a bit
05:31:35 <DHess_US> That's what she said!
05:35:36 <rust_collector> yeah, it will be fun to see when the wife comes home, if she will notice
05:45:18 Quit: ServalSpots ([email protected]) Ping timeout: 121 seconds
06:04:25 <DHess_US> https://i.imgur.com/YkYp5iI.jpg
06:12:34 <rust_collector> goo times
06:15:42 <rust_collector> I wonder if I should make a little shelf, so the scope can be off my bench, and maybe more eye height
06:23:56 <DHess_US> Need to fix my garage door also. The screws for the hinges are falling out and the hardware on the frong is rusting.
06:23:57 <DHess_US> I have a mess in my front room because apparently I put too many oscilloscopes on a table and the table collapsed on one corner.
06:25:50 Quit: steve30 ([email protected]) Connection closed
06:26:01 Join: steve30 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:28:40 Join: kuon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:58:18 Join: ServalSpots ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
06:58:21 Mode: (by ChanOP) +o ServalSpots
08:16:23 Join: SnowCrab ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
09:46:06 Quit: Halcyon ([email protected]) Connection closed
10:31:19 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: OMG just when you thought the Waterseer couldn't get any funnier! Start at 22:40 for the reveal! https://t.co/5Gjrgk1BRR
10:37:44 Join: Halcyon ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
10:42:03 <damian> morning Halcyon
10:42:25 <damian> Ampera, i was going to ask last night but got hungry, what are you going to do in the case of nickname collision?
10:42:54 <Halcyon> Hey damian
10:56:54 <Ampera> damian, exactly what happens with nickname collision on any IRC client/server
11:00:31 <T3sl4> The same thing we do every night, Ampera. Try to take over the server!
11:05:29 <rust_collector> I think the internet would need a reboot to fix that
11:50:09 * DogWomble peers in
12:03:21 * Halcyon mews at Ampera
12:03:40 * Ampera throws a javelin at Halcyon
12:04:29 * Halcyon drops it because he's a gay and gays don't catch
13:24:57 <damian> (Ampera) damian, exactly what happens with nickname collision on any IRC client/server
13:25:22 <Ampera> Halcyon, remind me never to play baseball with you
13:25:34 <damian> sorry i was a little off, not really nickname collision because that happens when two servers join back together
13:25:43 <Ampera> but if you dropped it, that would imply that you /did/ catch it
13:25:54 <damian> but i'm talking about nickname priority if there's already a nickname on irc real, but discord has the same nickname trying to connect
13:26:03 <Ampera> again, what any client does
13:26:03 <damian> usually the irc server will send back a CHOOSE ANOTHER NICKNAME which can't be done
13:26:23 <Ampera> I believe my IRC library will add a ` to the user when that happens
13:26:33 <Ampera> so they will just be given another nick
13:26:36 <damian> ahh yeah
13:27:13 <damian> my original idea was going to be to prefix or suffix all discord connections with an illegal tag, but that can't be done in your case
13:27:42 <damian> if you use a server-to-server connection you could push like a .d to all nicknames. i mean you can still do a |d or something, but you could still have a nickname in use
13:28:05 <Ampera> why would I do that though?
13:28:12 <Ampera> all it would do is make it less seamless
13:28:23 <Ampera> and you can just do a /whois if you need to know if someone is connecting via the bot
13:32:13 <Halcyon> Mew
13:32:28 <Ampera> hi Halcyon, how do
13:33:02 <Halcyon> I'm good, I just had a delicious Portuguese chicken burger
13:36:23 <damian> if you want seamless, you really have to do a server-server connection, not a client-server connection
13:36:44 <Ampera> damian, what do you mean by server-server
13:39:07 <damian> so you come into the irc network as a server instead of a client, and push clients out that way
13:39:21 <damian> that's a hard thing to do on austnet though, because our ircd is whackamole
13:40:35 <Ampera> That's a strange way of doing things, at least in my mind, but my method, at least on the IRC side of things, should be nearly completely seamless.
13:42:03 <damian> but we all know how warped your mind is ;)
13:42:25 <Ampera> don't remind me
13:42:28 <damian> 2secs i think i can find software which does similar but not with discord, it links two different irc network together
13:42:36 <damian> which is kind of what you're doing here, except you only have control over one of them
13:42:44 <Ampera> while you do that I'll go to bed
13:43:15 <damian> oh yeah, it's gotta be getting late there hey
13:43:35 <Ampera> yeah, but I'm feeling pretty depressed, and don't really want to be awake anymore
13:43:49 <Ampera> gn
13:45:02 <damian> oh
13:45:05 * damian gives Ampera a big hug
13:45:27 <damian> feel better tomorrow buddy
14:22:36 <Halcyon> Ampera :(
14:22:40 <Halcyon> *cuddles*
15:14:08 Join: Guest|29432 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
15:14:23 Quit: Guest|29432 ([email protected]) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
15:18:48 <Halcyon> T3sl4 you around?
15:23:07 <damian> i am
15:23:09 <damian> what do you need him for
15:23:21 <Halcyon> How good are you with Linux networking?
15:23:26 <damian> whats linux
15:23:30 <Halcyon> :P
15:23:36 <damian> what are you having issues with
15:24:00 <damian> i mainly do things the ubuntu way, which could be different to other distros out there
15:25:23 <Halcyon> I'm having some weird issue which started a few days ago. The only thing that changed was a Plex Media Server update, I don't know if it's the update that broke it or not but the timing is suspicious
15:25:41 <Halcyon> Basically what's happening is the network interface is losing it's IPv4 address
15:26:09 <Halcyon> Currently it gets it from DHCP, which works fine on boot, but I suspect (and I'm testing the timing at the moment) that when the lease expires, it's not renewing it
15:27:28 <Halcyon> Earlier today it would keeping sending DHCPREQUESTs to the DHCP server every 10 seconds or so (and the server would reply with a DHCPACK)
15:27:56 <Halcyon> That was odd in itself because it's not meant to do that, so I run updates and also updated the Kernel to the latest version. It stopped doing that now.
15:43:34 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW Video on EEVblog2! Rode NT55 vs M5 Microphone Test https://t.co/LrDoQTEhGm
15:44:42 <damian> that is very odd. does it stay offline once it goes?
15:44:51 <Halcyon> Yep
15:44:52 <damian> like you have to reboot to kick it back into gear, or cycle the interface
15:45:04 <Halcyon> I haven't cycling the interface
15:45:11 <Halcyon> *tried
15:45:27 <Halcyon> The DHCP lease expires in a few minutes so Ill see what happens
15:48:47 <Ampera> unfortunately I can't sleep
15:48:57 <Halcyon> Aww :(
15:49:02 <Ampera> one of the few things that provide me with an escape, like all the others, I can't get
15:49:06 <Ampera> because the universe just wants me to feel pain
15:50:38 <Halcyon> Yep, so right on schedule, pings stopped responding and if I do an ifconfig, there is no IPv4 address
15:58:09 <damian> what distro is it?
15:58:12 <damian> welcome back amer
15:58:15 <damian> Ampera
15:58:18 <Halcyon> Fedora
15:58:28 <damian> what does it come up with when you ifconfig ?
15:58:29 <Halcyon> If I do a dhclient eth0 it gets an IP again
15:58:42 <Halcyon> When it's broken, no IP at all
15:58:42 <damian> oh, no ipv4
15:58:51 <Halcyon> Nope
15:59:01 <Halcyon> The whole field is just gone
15:59:29 <damian> how have you been fixing it so far?
16:00:06 <Ampera> does Fedora have package distros?
16:00:11 <Halcyon> A reboot
16:00:12 <Ampera> like their own, do they use another
16:00:13 <damian> yup
16:00:16 <Ampera> I know they're redhat based
16:00:19 <Halcyon> Yeh I think so ?
16:00:22 <Halcyon> I have no idea
16:00:32 <Ampera> that's what I love about Arch, the package management is on point
16:00:34 <Halcyon> This only started happening after a Plex update
16:00:35 <damian> fedora uses rpm
16:00:40 <Halcyon> Not an OS update
16:00:59 <Ampera> yeak and debian uses dpkg, I'm more wondering if there's Arch or Debian style repos
16:01:03 <Halcyon> But, I don't know for sure it was Plex that broke it
16:01:08 <Ampera> or if it's just, find whatever RPM software works
16:01:15 <Halcyon> It could just be a coincidence
16:01:16 <damian> how did you updat eplex?
16:01:48 <Halcyon> I have the repo set up so I can just do it through yum/dnf
16:02:00 <damian> yum is a package manager :P
16:02:25 <damian> but did you just update the plex, or did you run something else which might have updated another package
16:02:25 <Halcyon> This is how I've set it up: https://support.plex.tv/articles/235974187-enable-repository-updating-for-supported-linux-server-distributions/
16:02:41 <Halcyon> I dunno now
16:02:50 <damian> i like getting to the bottom of things, but if it annoyed me too much i'd just static ip the sucker and be done with it
16:03:05 * Ampera throws a half gallon bottle of dr. pepper at Halcyon
16:03:12 <Halcyon> How can I check to see if dhclient is running?
16:03:14 <damian> i used to have a machine which did the same yeras and years ago, i just put a cronjob on root to restart the nic every 30mins :P
16:03:54 <damian> probably ps axu|grep dhc
16:05:11 <Halcyon> Yeh I don't want to be restarting the NIC, that's not an option
16:05:28 <Halcyon> I need to fix the root cause of the problem. I can't be interrupting connects already established
16:05:33 <Halcyon> *connections
16:08:02 <Halcyon> Now it seems to be doing it by itself again!?
16:08:03 <Halcyon> WTF
16:08:56 * Ampera passes Halcyon a bag of barbecue kettle chips
16:09:40 <Halcyon> Chilli for me please
16:09:58 <Halcyon> OK so I rebooted the machine, will see how it goes
16:10:13 <Ampera> I'm going to try something cool in a bit.
16:10:38 <Ampera> I want to see if I can supplement my PulseAudio sound server with JACK, keeping PulseAudio support, but gaining the flexible routing support of JACK
16:11:21 * Halcyon jacks Ampera
16:11:23 <Halcyon> ... wait
16:11:45 * Ampera calls the police
16:11:48 <Ampera> oh wait, you are the police
16:11:49 <Ampera> fuck
16:11:50 <Halcyon> :P
16:12:01 <Halcyon> And the vicious cycle begins
16:12:08 <Halcyon> Lucky you aren't black :P
16:12:41 <Ampera> I didn't know aussie cops were so racist
16:12:44 <Ampera> glad we're not like that
16:12:47 <Halcyon> :P
16:12:51 <damian> (Halcyon) Yeh I don't want to be restarting the NIC, that's not an option
16:12:57 <Halcyon> You guys just shoot first, ask questions later
16:13:03 * Ampera shoots damian
16:13:06 <damian> if you ethdown/ethup a connection it will rarely cause any issues :P
16:13:09 <Halcyon> (BTW we aren't, I'm just fucking with you)
16:13:12 <Ampera> don't even give a shit about asking questions
16:13:15 <damian> but i dont know if it will pull another address
16:13:29 <Halcyon> Yeh I don't think disabling the interface to fix another problem is the answer
16:13:40 <damian> its not a fix, it's a workaround! bahaha
16:13:45 <Halcyon> Yeh, no :P
16:13:54 <damian> but so is setting a static ip and that's just a configuration i have on all of my servers
16:15:33 <Halcyon> I'd rather not do that either
16:15:46 <damian> reinstall the box!
16:15:52 <Halcyon> This is a Plex server, which is not mission critical. It doesn't need a hardcoded IP
16:15:57 <Halcyon> It's static, but handed out via DHCP
16:16:11 <Ampera> restarting X, standby
16:16:39 <Ampera> thanks for standing by
16:26:47 Join: Guest|44639 ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
16:27:44 <Ampera> Well I have ALSA programs running on JACK
16:27:56 <Ampera> now I just have to see if I can get PulseAudio to run as an ALSA program on JACK too
16:28:02 <Guest|44639> hello i was looking to get help on a project here
16:28:09 <Ampera> What's the project?
16:28:21 <Halcyon> Is dhclient part of some other networking service or is it a standalone service?
16:28:28 <Halcyon> If I do dhclient -d, it works fun
16:28:31 <Halcyon> fine
16:28:36 <Guest|44639> well an experiment to find the effect of temperature on different batteries
16:28:56 <Ampera> Neat. Temperature can have all sorts of effects on different battery chemistries.
16:28:59 <Ampera> What do you need help with?
16:29:04 <Guest|44639> the setup
16:29:09 <Ampera> Go on.
16:29:25 <Guest|44639> i figured id have to discharge at a constant rate as the variable shoudl be temperature
16:29:35 <Ampera> and you need a good way to do that
16:29:44 <Guest|44639> so i watched the eev video on constant current
16:29:48 <Guest|44639> yeah
16:30:14 <Ampera> I presume the charged cell potential of your different batteries is not homogenous, which is the problem, right?
16:30:57 <Guest|44639> no i plan to use multiple cells so 3 Li-ion cells 3 NiMH cells and 3 alkaline
16:31:28 <Guest|44639> and the do analyse the effects separately for a conclusion
16:31:47 <Guest|44639> except i dont know what data to collect and how to do so
16:31:50 <Ampera> Yes, but, to not get fancy, they run at different voltages, correct?
16:32:17 <Ampera> so your NiMH cell might be 1.2v and your Li-ion cell 3.6, and your alkaline 1.5
16:32:24 <Guest|44639> yeah but from what i learnt the varying voltage does not matter if i use mAh
16:32:35 <Halcyon> Ampera, under the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ there is an ifcfg-ens33 file, but when I do ifconfig, the name of the interface has changed
16:32:36 <Guest|44639> yes
16:32:42 <Halcyon> How do I rename it back?
16:32:45 <Ampera> It matters if you use the same resistive load to test each ones
16:33:05 <Guest|44639> oh
16:33:06 <Ampera> Halcyon, what? You're saying the name of your interface has changed, or you need to rename a file
16:33:21 <Ampera> if you need to rename a file, it's as simple as doing mv <file> <new name at same path>
16:33:26 <Halcyon> Well the interface used to be calls ens33 (and there is a corresponding file for that)
16:33:33 <Guest|44639> well what if i use a constant current load?
16:33:41 <Halcyon> But it's not ens160 for some reason (possibly when I removed/readded it in ESXi)
16:33:45 <Halcyon> But there is no file for ens160
16:33:53 <Ampera> hold up I'
16:33:59 <Ampera> m triple tasking here
16:34:09 <Guest|44639> ok ill let you deal with that first
16:34:21 <Ampera> Halcyon, no clue why it would change, or what exactly you're doing.
16:34:37 <Halcyon> I'm trying to get to the bottom of this issue where DHCP leases don't renew
16:34:40 <Ampera> Guest|44639, the issue is that, with a resistive load, the energy used changes with the voltage applied to the load
16:34:59 <Ampera> so a 5kohm resistor will draw more energy at 5v than at 3v
16:35:03 <Halcyon> Why the chance of the interface name isn't important, but should I just be renaming the config file to represent the current name?
16:35:37 <Ampera> so your load needs to run at the same combined energy to get worthwhile results (you want your drawn current to be higher for lower voltage cells)
16:35:44 <Ampera> if I have my math correct :P
16:36:45 <Ampera> (might be going off path of what you were thinking about, but that's just an issue I saw)
16:36:51 <Guest|44639> which means that my Li-ion cells and alkaline cells would have a similar current load and the NiMH cells would have a lower current load right?
16:37:34 <Guest|44639> besides that what data would i have to collect to get a good essay
16:37:37 <Ampera> well I don't know what potential (voltage) the cells run at, but if you want to apply an equal load to your higher voltage cells, less current must be drawn than what you would have to draw from your lower voltage cells
16:38:06 <Guest|44639> yes that makes sense
16:38:34 <Ampera> If you want to see what temperature will do, the idea is you draw an equal and constant load (think the same number of watts from each cell), and then change the temperature
16:39:15 <Guest|44639> and do analysis on time vs temperature?
16:39:23 <Ampera> as for how you can detect how the temperature does to cells comparatively, my sleep deprived mind is trying to think if measuring the voltage drop as the cell discharges can be compared between different cells
16:40:14 <Ampera> so ideally you measure both voltage and current from each cell, at the same time, as you run the test.
16:40:40 <Guest|44639> right and uses multiple in different temperature conditions
16:40:41 <Ampera> I'd say the number you want to present is how fast energy declines compared to temperature
16:41:04 <Guest|44639> right
16:41:37 <Guest|44639> so i would have to do power*time for the change in energy?
16:41:38 <Ampera> so, to tl;dr what I'm on about, draw the same energy (W) load from each cell, and measure how fast the energy output under load on each cell declines
16:42:14 <Ampera> getting energy and power mixed up, you're measuring power
16:42:31 <Ampera> W is power J is energy, energy has a time quantity
16:42:50 <Guest|44639> right
16:42:51 <Ampera> sorry if I'm confusing you, it's late
16:43:03 <Guest|44639> yeah im sorry about that
16:43:11 <Ampera> I'm the one who is up :P
16:43:26 <Guest|44639> ok so what are the things i need to measure
16:43:47 <Ampera> So each cell has a certain quantity of energy, which is how much power can it output for how long
16:43:48 <Guest|44639> well see the thing is im in singapore and its mid noon so im the one who is disturbing you
16:44:05 <Ampera> when you discharge a cell, you are using energy
16:44:19 <Ampera> I'm in New York, and can't sleep, so it's my fault I'm on this late
16:44:22 <Guest|44639> yeah
16:44:28 <Ampera> it's not like you woke me up
16:44:37 <Guest|44639> makes sense
16:45:01 <Ampera> So the hypothesis is that, under different temperature conditions, the energy you can extract from a cell will change
16:45:05 <Ampera> correct?
16:45:08 <Guest|44639> anyways ive been trying to figure out how to do this so that i can go buy the parts
16:45:23 <Guest|44639> something along those lines yes
16:45:57 <Ampera> So if you wish to test that, you need to start discharging cells. Since you are comparing cells you want to discharge each cell at exactly the same rate
16:46:12 <Ampera> What I'd use for that is a resistor, potentially something beefy-ish.
16:46:29 <Ampera> the issue is that resistors will draw more power the higher the voltage is
16:46:57 <Guest|44639> so that messes with the math im guessing
16:46:59 <Ampera> this is ohm's law, where current = voltage / resistance
16:48:03 <Ampera> you can also look at this as current * resistance = voltage, so if you increase the voltage, and your resistor is always the same resistance
16:48:12 <Ampera> the current is the only thing left to go up, which means more power drawn
16:48:53 <Ampera> so to start off with, you need to measure the standing voltages of each of your cells, under no load. Using ohm's law, you can then calculate what size resistor you'd need for each one to draw the same power
16:49:22 <Ampera> so if you have a 1.2v cell and a 3.6v cell, you will need 3x the resistance to draw the same power on the 1.2v cell
16:49:37 <Guest|44639> or the other way around
16:49:50 <Ampera> aye
16:49:54 <Guest|44639> 1/3rds the resistance on the 3.6v
16:50:19 <Ampera> so if you want to, for an arbitrary measure, use a 5kohm load on the 1.2v cell, to draw the same power, you need a 15kohm load on the 3.6v cell
16:50:40 <Guest|44639> ahh ok
16:50:46 <Ampera> so now that we have the same load on each cell, we need to start measuring how much energy (power * time) we are using up
16:51:04 <Guest|44639> do i use the same time frame
16:51:06 <Ampera> so we need three things to measure this, a voltmeter, an ampmeter, and a stopwatch
16:51:19 <Ampera> Ideally, so you can do all your experiments over 12 hours
16:51:27 <Ampera> which means you don't need the stopwatch (just saying that to signify time)
16:51:50 <Guest|44639> right yes but i have the lab for a week so no issues for that
16:51:58 <Ampera> so what you would do is, with the cells discharging at the same temperature, you need to measure how fast the voltage and current change under load
16:52:18 <Guest|44639> ok
16:52:18 <Ampera> plenty of time
16:52:35 <Ampera> so for example, measure over a period of 12 hours (doesn't have to be 12 hours), the voltage and current every 5 minutes
16:52:59 <Ampera> voltage and current is power (W), and the time makes that (J), or how much juice is in the cells
16:53:09 <Guest|44639> ok and then plot a graph with all that
16:53:12 <Guest|44639> and compare
16:53:14 <Ampera> yep
16:53:15 <Guest|44639> right?
16:53:20 <Ampera> at the same temperatures, then with different ones
16:53:30 <Ampera> that's basically the test I would do, and the rest is just statistics
16:53:35 <Guest|44639> yeah
16:53:50 <Ampera> just a warning, get someone else's opinion, I'm never 100% on my advice
16:54:11 <Guest|44639> and also do you have any short cut for the data collection?
16:54:11 <Ampera> the idea, though, is you want this to make sense in your brain, don't get someone else to walk you through it all the way
16:54:11 <Guest|44639> yeah ofcourse
16:54:18 <Guest|44639> other than a data logger
16:54:23 <Ampera> so you don't have to keep measuring it every 5 minutes?
16:54:34 <Guest|44639> yeah
16:54:39 <Ampera> time lapse camera
16:54:49 <Ampera> (video camera)
16:54:52 <Guest|44639> on my phone?
16:55:02 <Ampera> ideally a webcam and a laptop
16:55:12 <Guest|44639> right ok
16:55:13 <Ampera> but if you can mount your phone and get something to take a picture every 5 minutes of your meters
16:55:19 <Ampera> and preferably a thermometer
16:55:38 <Guest|44639> definately the whole experiment is based on temp
16:56:23 <Ampera> just to ensure that the temperature is constant
16:56:41 <Guest|44639> right this helped i finished a weeks worth of self contemplating in 15 minutes
16:56:41 <Ampera> how you get different temperatures is something you'll have to figure out, just don't do something stupid like stick your cells on a hotplate
16:57:25 <Guest|44639> im using an ice bath and a hot water bath, or ill use a temperature chamber if available
16:57:31 <Ampera> ideally you also want fairly dead air, and if you wanted to get /really/ complete, you'd also run numbers based off different rates of discharge
16:57:41 <Ampera> but I'm not sure how complete you need this
16:58:14 <Guest|44639> its basically a paper i have to right to complete my IB
16:58:16 <Ampera> ngl it already sounds like a pain in the ass :)
16:58:24 <Ampera> IB?
16:58:27 <Guest|44639> extended essay if you know what it is
16:58:51 <Guest|44639> International Baccalaureate
16:58:57 <Guest|44639> dimploma program
16:59:08 <Ampera> sounds like fun
16:59:23 <Guest|44639> nah brother pain in the neck
16:59:32 <Ampera> sounds like a pain in the neck then
16:59:41 <Guest|44639> final year before university
17:00:41 <Ampera> how you doing Halcyon, get your stuff sorted yet?
17:01:16 <Halcyon> Not sure yet...
17:01:24 <Halcyon> Just testing something now
17:02:15 <Halcyon> Nope, still borked
17:02:32 <Guest|44639> what was your issue i might be of some help
17:02:43 <Ampera> linux+networking
17:03:03 <Guest|44639> oh well not a lot but i do know a bit
17:03:11 <Halcyon> I'm running Fedora and for some reason, dhclient isnt renewing ip addresses after boot
17:03:28 <Guest|44639> server machine?
17:03:30 <Guest|44639> or the client
17:03:32 <Halcyon> Yup
17:03:37 <Halcyon> client
17:03:48 <Halcyon> It's a server but gets it IP via DHCP
17:03:59 <Guest|44639> did you try checking if the router config is ok?
17:04:13 <Halcyon> Nothing to do with the router, it's the machine itself
17:04:24 <Halcyon> When I manually run dhclient, it works
17:05:29 <Guest|44639> might be some compatibility issues with your router
17:05:39 <Halcyon> Again, nothing to do with the router or DHCP server
17:05:49 <Halcyon> It's a client-side problem and just started happening a few days ago
17:06:02 <Guest|44639> oh
17:06:19 <Guest|44639> so everything works when run manually?
17:06:23 <Halcyon> Yes
17:06:40 <Halcyon> And for some reason, after an update, it no longer does it automatically and I don't know what changed
17:08:06 <Guest|44639> try checking your network interface files for the dhcp line
17:08:13 <Halcyon> It's present
17:08:16 <Guest|44639> it might have gotten commented
17:08:38 <Guest|44639> it happened on my VM once
17:09:25 <Halcyon> BOOTPROTO is set to dhcp
17:09:28 <Halcyon> No issues there
17:10:09 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: Might do a live Q&A shortly on the main channel, just because...
17:10:44 <Guest|44639> is your ipv4 enabled?
17:10:58 <Halcyon> Yes
17:12:29 <Guest|44639> if nothing works just add a dhclient to the boot scripts
17:12:58 <Ampera> here's your daily reminder that audio on linux was a chance to make a dynamic, easy to use, and powerful subsystem, but cretins have turned it into a broken down, complicated mess of bullshit
17:13:05 <Guest|44639> i think its /etc/rc.d/rc.local on fedora
17:13:29 <Halcyon> I'm just trying one other thing... just waiting for the lease to expire
17:13:44 <Guest|44639> that will take a while
17:13:50 <Guest|44639> like atleast 4 hours
17:13:53 <Halcyon> I've set it to 2 minutes while troubleshooting
17:13:57 <Guest|44639> ahh
17:13:57 <Halcyon> The default is 2 hours
17:14:15 <Guest|44639> ok then yeah
17:14:59 <Guest|44639> easiest would be adding dhclient to the boot script
17:15:21 Part: Guest|44639 ([email protected]) from #EEVblog
17:28:25 <coppice> Ampera: audio still doesn't "just work" on Linux, which is pretty sad after 25 years
17:28:44 <Ampera> It just works so long as having the most basic pulseaudio config is good for you
17:28:54 <Ampera> but I want stuff like being able to route programs to different places
17:29:04 <Ampera> so I can do something like record the output of one program, while monitoring the output of two
17:29:27 <Ampera> which JACK has beautiful interfaces for, but it has poor desktop program support
17:29:42 <coppice> even pulseaudio screws up quite often. I still get situations like one app starts, and the audio playing from another goes weird
17:30:01 <Ampera> what I'm trying to do right now is have PulseAudio connect to JACK as an ALSA program, so that the programs that /need/ it can use it
17:30:15 <Ampera> and then I at least have the flexibility of having some programs usable on JACK separate from PulseAudio, like VLC
17:30:30 <Ampera> so I could do something like run a YouTube stream, but listen to music that doesn't get captured
17:31:41 <coppice> the interplay of alsa, jack and pulseaudio got so messed up, I've lost track of how they even relate..... except for ALSA being the hardware interface
17:32:10 <Ampera> here's how it works, ALSA is the hardware interface. JACK and PA are sound servers. allowing things like program mixing and the like
17:32:28 <Ampera> the issue with ALSA is it's only able (exceptions exist), to have one program use one device at once time
17:32:45 <Ampera> that's why you can't just run JACK and PA and have them use the same device at once
17:33:04 <Halcyon> Now I've lost all networking on this machine
17:33:05 <Halcyon> WTF
17:33:08 <Ampera> to get them to work together is an even harder case of for fuck's sake
17:33:26 <Ampera> I wish I was dealing with your problem Halcyon, I'd probably have it fixed by now :P
17:33:42 <Halcyon> Any suggestions then?
17:34:51 <Ampera> the only one I can give you is to use dhcpcd instead of dhclient
17:34:58 <Ampera> only because I've used dhcpcd, and never used dhclient
17:35:11 <Ampera> but I think me telling you to use my things because they work for me isn't a great help to you
17:36:02 <Halcyon> The default should work
17:36:07 <Halcyon> It's worked for many months
17:36:13 <Halcyon> Why all of a sudden not now?
17:36:21 <Ampera> holy shit
17:36:25 <Ampera> this needs a screensh ot
17:37:31 <Ampera> http://prntscr.com/obmkkp
17:37:47 <Halcyon> ?
17:37:55 <Ampera> JACK connected to ALSA, with support to pipe PulseAudio and ALSA programs into the graph
17:38:02 <Ampera> this is my config of dreams
17:38:09 <Halcyon> That's good
17:38:26 <Ampera> gonna have to mess around a bit more, but this is awesome, coppice check that one out
17:40:17 <Ampera> holy shit I've done something even cooler than that
17:40:23 <coppice> Have they improved the JACK connection display? I don't remember it looking that clear.
17:40:34 <Ampera> coppice, that's qjackctl, a frontend using the graph menu
17:40:43 <Ampera> the old clunky one is still there, but this is exactly why I want to use JACK
17:41:11 <Ampera> but what I just found out I could do is double connect PulseAudio to JACK, so I can have two different programs running on PulseAudio, and route them independently inside of JACK
17:41:13 <Ampera> however much I want
17:42:11 <coppice> yeah, that's what JACK is alll about... well, that and managing latency
17:43:00 <Ampera> http://prntscr.com/obmlpx
17:43:29 <Ampera> So what you can see here are two PulseAudio programs, each running on a different pulseasudio sink (output), which are two separate outputs on JACK
17:43:41 <Ampera> so I could, for example, record only one, but monitor both
17:44:04 <Ampera> I also retain full support for ALSA programs and JACK programs, if I want them
17:44:24 <Ampera> though I think I'm going to route ALSA through to PulseAudio, because amazingly it's done a bit cleaner than JACK's implementation.
17:44:29 <coppice> didn't the desktop people try to add yet another audio system 4 or 5 years ago?
17:45:07 <Ampera> my god these are just the two most popular sound servers, they don't count the hardware implementations of ALSA and OSS (which still exists), there are /more/ audio solutions like gstreamer, portaudio, etc. etc. etc.
17:45:24 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: So much for going live, my Avermedia HD capture card is rooted. "This device cannot start. (Code 10)"
17:46:18 <coppice> Its a while since I had to do any ALSA programming, but it has a really annoying set of APIs.
17:46:52 <T3sl4> Ampera: https://i.imgur.com/RmhYygz.png
17:47:09 <T3sl4> coppice: The code never bothered me anyways.
17:47:33 <Ampera> oh man T3sl4
17:51:10 <coppice> Ampera: what you have done is very basic and very straightforward. The biggest problem with audio on Linux is how bloody hard it is to find out how to make a simple setup like thatconfiguration. The second biggest is having multiple multually not quite compatible sound systems, where bugs are considered legal residents.
17:51:35 <Ampera> That's why I'm writing a guide I plan to post on the eevblog forum right now
17:51:41 <Ampera> because this is literally a dream come true.
17:54:26 <T3sl4> it's so great you could just die?
17:57:58 <coppice> Things don't have to be great for you to die
18:15:47 <Halcyon> Fuck it, I'm just going to reinstall the OS
18:15:51 <Halcyon> NFI what's wrong
18:16:53 <Ampera> good solution
18:16:59 <Ampera> I'm gonna automate all of this
18:17:16 <Halcyon> It's like the networking stack just went bye byes
18:19:39 <Halcyon> I might as well try Arch for this server
18:20:06 <Halcyon> Is there like a minimal install? I don't want a GUI or anything like that, literally just needs networking
18:20:11 <Halcyon> Enough to run Plex
18:20:12 <Ampera> yep
18:20:17 <Ampera> that's Arch in general
18:20:27 <Ampera> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/installation_guide
18:20:29 <Ampera> follow this
18:20:43 <Ampera> use GRUB as the bootloader, it's simple enough
18:20:52 <Halcyon> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/plex-media-server-plexpass/
18:20:56 <Ampera> if you want a good server OS and don't want to learn how to install Arch, I suggest FreeBSD
18:21:00 <Halcyon> This means it's maintained by someone other than Plex ?
18:21:13 <Ampera> the package is, not the contents
18:21:31 <Ampera> the AUR is simply just a set of scripts that people maintain that allow packages not popular enough, or not open enough to be put on the regular repos
18:21:48 <Ampera> you'll want an AUR helper for this, I suggest pakku
18:22:14 <Ampera> Arch is it's own universe though, I'm not complaining if you wanna try it, but it's not gonna be as plug and play as you might like
18:22:23 <Halcyon> Hmm
18:22:27 <Ampera> for that use FreeBSD, Ubuntu Server, or Debian.
18:22:32 <Halcyon> Might go FreeBSD then, seeing as I already run it
18:22:59 <Ampera> https://www.freshports.org/multimedia/plexmediaserver-plexpass
18:23:11 <Halcyon> There are all different images though, what's the difference between the DVD one and say the CD ISO ?
18:23:11 <Ampera> FreeBSD is easy to set up, and you can get all the networking configured via the installer
18:23:22 <Ampera> get the usbstick
18:23:29 <Ampera> the differences idk, maybe one makes you download more stuff
18:25:16 <Halcyon> What annoys me more about this is not that it happened, but because I couldn't fix it :(
18:25:31 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:25:53 <Ampera> the issue Halcyon is you try to get Linux to do things, but don't put the effort in to learn everything else that gets it to work
18:26:01 <Ampera> which is why I like Arch so much, because it forced me to do that
18:26:12 <Ampera> so if I had a problem, I knew how to solve it, or at least knew how to figure out how
18:52:12 <Halcyon> What's the difference between ntpdate and ntpd ?
18:52:21 <Halcyon> One just says sync at boot time
18:52:53 <Ampera> one syncs at boot
18:52:54 <Ampera> disable it
18:52:58 <Ampera> just have ntpd
18:53:03 <Halcyon> Just stick with ntpd ?
18:53:08 <Ampera> that's what I've done
18:57:01 <Halcyon> Alrighty, let's see how this goes :P
18:57:20 <Ampera> pkg is the package manager
18:57:27 <Ampera> I suggest getting sudo
18:57:32 <Ampera> documentation is plentiful
18:57:35 <Ampera> I know how to use it
19:22:05 <Halcyon> How do I mount SMB shares on this thing?
19:22:20 Quit: coppice ([email protected]) Connection closed
19:25:01 <Ampera> Halcyon, oh dear
19:25:10 <Halcyon> What?
19:25:15 <Ampera> well the same as you do on Linux
19:25:18 <Ampera> just without a UI
19:25:29 <Halcyon> Through the mounts things?
19:25:31 <Halcyon> thingy
19:25:36 <Ampera> CIFS/Samba
19:25:56 <Ampera> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/network-samba.html
19:25:57 <Ampera> have fun
19:26:19 <Ampera> that's for server hold on
19:26:35 <Ampera> https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-a-nas-with-freebsd-mount_smbfs/
19:40:42 <Halcyon> OK, next question,
19:40:59 <Halcyon> What's the default firewall? How do I open up ports?
19:41:10 <Ampera> welcome to the world of pf
19:41:13 <Ampera> but as for the firewall
19:41:15 <Ampera> there is none by default
19:41:24 <Ampera> all ports are open, no traffic is filtered on the machine
19:41:49 <Halcyon> Hmm OK weird
19:41:56 <Ampera> if you want one, the popular implementation is pf (what pfsense uses, and where it gets its name)
19:42:04 <Ampera> however that is quite complicated to set up (I've never been able to do it)
19:42:46 <Ampera> I believe there are other options like ipfw, and maybe something simpler
19:42:55 <Ampera> but I imagine you're doing something network and a port is looking blocked
19:43:02 <Ampera> I run a FreeBSD server myself, there is no firewall
19:47:10 <Halcyon> This mount_smbfs, is that persistent?
19:47:20 <Halcyon> Is per session?
19:47:23 <Halcyon> *or
19:48:05 <Ampera> Halcyon, I believe freebsd uses the fstab system, so you can set up mounts like that
19:48:14 <Ampera> but yes, if you do a command, that's one time only
19:48:14 <Halcyon> Ah cool
19:48:16 <Ampera> you can do scripts though
19:48:44 <Ampera> I normally just do it by hand whenever the machine starts up because I'm too lazy to write a script
19:48:46 * steve30 hugs Halcyon
19:49:04 <Halcyon> Hey Steve :)
19:55:49 <Ampera> Halcyon, you up for some discording?
19:55:53 <Ampera> so I can show you my sound tomfuckery
19:56:12 <Halcyon> A bit later, I'm trying to get this server up and running
19:56:19 <Ampera> k
20:02:40 <steve30> My Mum is back from her holiday
20:13:47 <Halcyon> Is that good Steve?
20:16:38 <steve30> umm, well, it'll be none stop holiday talk for the next couple of weeks
20:17:06 <Ampera> Halcyon, how's the server going?
20:18:51 <Halcyon> This is painful
20:19:00 <Halcyon> fstab is this is different to linux... just because
20:19:08 <Halcyon> I can't work out how to specify an SMB version
20:19:09 <Ampera> not really
20:19:38 <Ampera> you'll also want to ensure you set it to mount-on-access, otherwise it won't work
20:19:54 <Halcyon> I'm just trying to get it to mount temporarily for the time being
20:20:17 <Ampera> you got it to mount via the console?
20:21:26 <Ampera> https://askubuntu.com/questions/922682/specify-smb-3-0-in-etc-fstab
20:21:43 <Ampera> Halcyon, fstab in BSD is the same as fstab in Linux for CIFS, I'm pretty sure
20:21:50 <Ampera> use these settings, it should work
20:21:53 <Halcyon> There are some differences
20:22:02 <Ampera> like what
20:22:40 <Halcyon> The syntax is different
20:22:54 <Ampera> not when I used fstab for cifs
20:22:56 <Halcyon> That link you sent me is for Linux, but I'll try it
20:23:10 <Ampera> yes, because I recall it being the same
20:23:51 <Ampera> you'll also need to put auth info into .nsmbrc as such: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-a-nas-with-freebsd-mount_smbfs/ (under avoid password prompt)
20:24:27 <Halcyon> But if I put the password into fstab, why do I need it in the file?
20:24:49 <Ampera> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20:24:50 <steve30> I think I might book an appointment with the physiotherapist this week
20:24:59 <Ampera> should work in fstab I guess, but in the event it doesn't
20:26:23 <Halcyon> Yeh that doesn't work
20:26:30 <Halcyon> Throws up a syntax thing
20:27:12 <Ampera> cor Halcyon, nothing works for you, does it :P
20:27:19 <Halcyon> Nope
20:27:31 <Ampera> do you want me to ssh in and do it?
20:27:45 <Halcyon> It's fine, I want to work it out
20:28:02 <Ampera> my suggestion is to not use fstab then, and to just stick a mount command into a launch script
20:28:12 <Ampera> how you do scripts that run at boot time, I forget
20:28:20 <Halcyon> Well that doesn't help me then
20:29:02 <Ampera> lemme see how the service system works
20:29:02 <Ampera> standby
20:31:44 <Ampera> put it in /etc/rc.local, that should be executed at start
20:31:46 <Ampera> verifying
20:32:16 <Ampera> yep, just stick commands in rc.local and it starts at boot
20:34:12 <Halcyon> I'm just trying to even temporarily get it mounted and it doesn't work
20:34:37 <Halcyon> Firstly, it still prompt for a password, even if I give it one and then I get an error: "Don't know how to talk with server xxx"
20:34:55 <Ampera> didn't you have the option to use SFTP?
20:35:01 <Ampera> that would be on an order of magnitude easier
20:35:15 <Halcyon> Will it let me stream files directly from the NAS?
20:35:27 <Ampera> yes
20:35:30 <Ampera> I use it all the time for that
20:35:40 <Ampera> it's a full random access file system, and can be mounted real easily
20:35:48 <Ampera> to do so, pkg install sshfs
20:35:49 <Halcyon> I'll see if it works with this username
20:36:12 <Ampera> to mount: sshfs -p <PORT> user@address:/path/to/folder /path/to/local/mountpoint
20:36:49 <Ampera> will ask for a password, if this is undesirable, simply set up an non-encrypted private key for the account
20:37:04 <Halcyon> Let me get the user account working with SFTP first
20:37:28 <Ampera> if you want a plain sftp client, you can do: sftp -P port user@address
20:37:40 <Ampera> if port is 22 on either, you don't need -p
20:37:50 <Ampera> and sftp is -P for port (case changes)
20:37:57 <Ampera> sshfs isn't
20:38:36 <Halcyon> I get auth failed, but I assume because I have shell set to nologin ?
20:38:55 <Ampera> auth failed with what command
20:39:05 <Halcyon> I'm just using filezilla for the moment
20:39:17 <Ampera> on your linux machine?
20:39:20 <Halcyon> Yes
20:39:36 <Ampera> need to do sftp://address
20:39:41 <Halcyon> Yes I'm aware
20:39:44 <Ampera> filezilla by default will try to connect as ftp unless on port 22
20:39:44 <Halcyon> I get auth failed
20:39:49 <Ampera> huh
20:40:05 <Ampera> can you connect via normal ssh in a terminal?
20:40:22 <Halcyon> If I use filezilla, I can login SFTP as root
20:40:26 <Halcyon> But not the user I want to access
20:40:29 <Halcyon> So it's a permissions thing
20:40:51 <Ampera> is ssh forwarded to WAN?
20:40:55 <Ampera> on that bos
20:40:56 <Ampera> *box
20:40:57 <Halcyon> No
20:41:05 <Ampera> good, because that's a big security issue
20:41:09 <Ampera> even on LAN, but it's not as bad
20:41:24 <Ampera> can you login as that user with normal ssh
20:41:31 <Halcyon> No, it has no shell access
20:41:34 <Halcyon> That's what I'm asking
20:41:49 <Ampera> well you have to enable that then
20:41:52 <Halcyon> if it as nologin set, what does it need to be
20:41:59 <Ampera> nologin set where
20:41:59 <Halcyon> I have a long list of options
20:42:07 <Halcyon> Under "Shell" in the user account
20:42:11 <Halcyon> (on the NAS)
20:42:19 <Ampera> never used FreeNAS, what are the options
20:43:40 <Halcyon> netcli.sh, csh, sh, tcsh, bash, ksh93, mksh, rbash. rzsh, scponly, zsh, git-shell and nologin
20:43:49 <Ampera> sh or bash
20:44:35 <Ampera> that's not ssh, that's just the user account, idk if there needs to be a shell set for ssh to do sftp things
20:44:37 <Ampera> probably
20:44:57 <Halcyon> Nope, neither worked
20:45:10 <Ampera> on ssh?
20:45:17 <Halcyon> On SFTP
20:45:23 <Ampera> using the openssh client?
20:45:23 <Halcyon> I don't want this user to be able to SSH in
20:45:28 <Halcyon> Filezilla
20:45:49 <Ampera> alright then set the shell to nologin, it wouldn't give you that error anyways if it was an issue
20:46:15 <Ampera> ensure that /etc/sshd_config (on the NAS) doesn't have any match group or match user that might be disabling sftp for that user
20:46:31 <Ampera> even still it shouldn't do that
20:46:55 <Ampera> ensure it has a password, and that password auth for that user is also not disabled, or simply use a private key (not on filezilla)
20:47:26 <Halcyon> Password auth is enabled
20:47:37 <Ampera> do you have any match user or match group sections?
20:48:10 <Ampera> lemme go to pm so I can spit lines at you
20:49:02 <Halcyon> sshd_config doesn't exist in /etc
20:49:35 <Ampera> /etc/ssh/sshd_config
20:49:35 <Ampera> sorry
21:02:47 <EEVBlog1> New EEVBlog Tweet: NEW EEVblog Video! EEVblog LIVE Q&A https://t.co/HT2Yxs7fpL
21:18:19 <steve30> My back is a bit sunburnt
22:07:58 Join: coppice ([email protected]) to #EEVblog
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